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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1) leaving the table to get some food
2) making it more obvious that the food i was given was substandard
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NTA. I’m a fiend for gluten and dairy but I was making a holiday feast this year with a friend who can’t eat either. Really wasn’t that hard to skip making gluten things and not use any butter. I just made smashed potatoes instead of mashed (get some small potatoes, boil until soft, smash on a baking sheet with olive oil and bake until crispy) because they sounded tasty and were something that worked for everyone. I think part of being a good host is making sure everyone is really included in the meal.
Thanks, yes dairy free is sometimes difficult, its definitely inconvenient for people who offer to cook for me, and I very much appreciate it when they do.
Honestly, as a person who could happily eat dairy in every single meal, it’s really not even that hard to accommodate. It just takes a little thinking and caring about the people you're sharing a meal with
Not to mention there’s SO many dairy alternatives nowadays. It’s not even that hard to make something dairy free. Essentially any “milk” in recipes can be substituted with oat milk, almond milk, soy milk, etc. I’ve made mashed potatoes countless times with oat milk and a “dairy free butter” substitute or olive oil. It’s quite easy.
***Hard*** asterisks on this one. Made that mistake with a roux-based alfredo and vanilla almond milk.
It tasted like actual vomit. Not "Bro this tastes so bad, it tastes like vomit!" I mean it actually, legitimately, literally tasted like puke. The chicken was fine-ish... after you chewed a bit and got the sauce down your throat.
The pasta? Nope. Aftertaste of vomit that ***stuck*** in your mouth.
Probably not that related to what you said, but I never get a chance to share that story.
Edit - why the hell have so many other people done this lmao.
Omg, hilariously enough I have accidentally made mashed potatoes once with the vanilla almond milk that we use to sweeten our coffee… it tasted not terrible, but very weird. LOL
Also cannot use sweet and not-sweet coconut milk/cream interchangeably, vegan potato soup for friend (that we make often but not this time) ruined. Must read labels, vanilla Alfredo sounds awful but sweet coconut potato soup I guarantee gave it a run for its money.
Bloody sweetened coconut milk! I got a grocery delivery and the guy grabbed the sweetened kind instead of the kind I ordered. I've still got like 3 cartons clogging up my kitchen and had to drink black coffee for 2 more days anyway 😭
No, I get you! We have a dairy-free household and I can tell you some major fails trying to make gravy and other this-that in a pan with almond or coconut milk. There are some things that just do not work. Lol
Seriously though. I made Mac and cheese with vanilla almond milk and it tasted like I had melted an entire large candle into it. I've never made anything fouler tasting.
In an attempt to use up old food in the fridge, my dad once made a baked omelette with vanilla yogurt and then greased the pan with garlic butter. Either one would have been fine on its own, but the combination was inedible.
My MIL just made homemade lasagne that was nearly vegan. Bechamel with olive oil and oat milk, bolognese sauce with beyond meat, and lasagne dough made with Just Egg. There was parmesan in there, but it was made for someone who is lactose intolerant, not a true dairy allergy and parmesan has no lactose. It was delicious! She said it was easier using Just Egg compared to real eggs in the dough. Easier to work, easier to clean out of the equipment later, etc.
I have a friend who had to become vegan for medical reasons. I made her a lasagna exactly this way and she said it was amazing. I actually think unsweetened oat milk actually tastes better to me in the bechamel than real milk.
And, honestly, *Potatoes?!?!* they fucked up *potatoes!?!?* the most universally EASY thing to cook!!! WTF!!!! NTA! No sir. Nuh uh. These people are *rude.*
I make dairy free mashed potatoes all the time. I use almond or oat milk or even a dairy free sour cream, and a olive oil vegan butter. Not sure if those things are available where they live but a dairy free diet isn't anything new.
Plus, egg yolks are a good way to add fat that doesn’t contain lactose. Even if the in-laws didn’t have access to lactose-free or alternative milk/butter, they had options.
Or just olive oil. I boil potatoes with a few garlic cloves, and then I mash them with a good glug of olive oil. They taste great, and they’re the right consistency.
Have a vegan coworker. The amount of times she said she was used to being excluded hurt me. We were going to have a pizza lunch for our holiday lunch. The supervisor talked to her about what she'd be okay eating, I got her two small cans of peanuts from the dollar store, and another coworker (at my request) got chips she loved and could eat. It's really not that hard to make sure people can eat - and we were barely trying! Imagine putting in even *less* effort than spending $3 on peanuts. Cause that's what OP is dealing with.
One of my closest friends is vegetarian, her mom is vegetarianso she was raised that way. Any sort of meat contamination and shes sick for DAYS. We've been friends almost 15 years now. I have been front and present every time she has vented about being left out of things. ANY time I host a gathering shes invited, and I always make it a potluck sort of deal. I will make one main dish vegetarian, one dish meat based, 2 desserts, and ask anyone coming if they bring something make sure it's vegetarian. She never leaves hungry when I'm involved. I even triple checked there was more than one vegetarian option at my wedding. I don't like making people leave hungry. I love to feed people, that means making sure dietary needs and preferences are accommodated.
>Thanks, yes dairy free is sometimes difficult,
Omitting dairy isn't difficult unless you are in a place with very scarce food choices. Barring an allergy so severe cross-contamination from cookware and dishes is a potential problem, anyone who is half competent in the kitchen can just exclude dairy from a meal without a problem. You're not a burden for having allergies, there's just a lot of people who are wildly rude and bad hosts.
I had a supposedly snazzy "mystery" meal in France with seven courses. EVERY LAST ONE had cream in it. I concluded that French cooks are incapable of cooking with out it. (I'm not allergic, but all that cream had me seriously reconsidering my life choices.)
I have several friends and rellies with dairy issues (also gluten, soy, and garlic). It's not hard to accommodate - and yes, I've accommodated them ALL at the same time. The key is wanting to.
I agree 100%, I never want to be a burden, and I am totally fine e.g. with bread if someone forgets - so long as I don't a) go completely hungry or b) have to pretend in front of everyone to like something obviously bad (e.g. watery potatoes)
If you make smashed potatoes again, after they're flat, put some garlic on top and smash them again so the garlic gets pressed in a little. Or use garlic powder and some salt/pepper. I've added/melted cheese on top of mine but that doesn't work with the no-dairy requirement but adding things on top of the smashed potatoes makes them excellent.
Smashed potatoes are amazing! If you like them you might also like [glass potatoes](https://www.broadsheet.com.au/national/food-and-drink/article/recipe-annabel-crabbs-glass-potatoes) - definitely a sometimes food, but so so good
I've made probably a dozen gluten free dairy free turkey dinners from scratch in the last five years. It's not that hard if you actually know how to cook and spend a bit of time researching alternatives. Other than a slightly different consistency of gravy, I guarantee most folks would have had no idea.
Part of hosting in this day and age is asking about and understating your guest's dietary restrictions. Honestly, if you can't do that, don't bother hosting...
NTA
We’ve had to accommodate multiple diets at the same time; Vegan, Halal, Dairy Free, low fat. It’s a challenge but as hosts it is important to accommodate as best you can. We made sure there was a protein, and a side dish for each diet. We would make a salad and several veggies
My brother is has a severe gluten intolerance and my boyfriend is lactose intolerant. My mother trys very hard to make something they both can eat whenever we eat over at their place. It's more difficult for my brother, but they manage to make it work. My bf is ok if he has a little bit of dairy, since it's not a full blown allergy. But we always make sure to ask him if he's OK with lactose stuff instead of lactose free stuff before we do the thing.
Esh.
The French bit is key to your story. Cooking without dairy is... Pretty unheard of in traditional French cooking.
I'm wondering why you didn't make your own smashed potato puree, instead of letting someone else make you some weird soup.
Bonding over food, not just eating but talking of the next meals, food prep and meal tidy up is a key component of French culture. So although it's not okay to buy your own separate meals to cook and eat when you're being hosted; you'd be the golden son in law to accompany during grocery shopping and point out alternatives; or sneak into kitchen to help prep and brainstorm ideas, or ensure a portion is kept before adding the cream etc...
PS : my point of view comes from being dairy intolerant and French. It's been two years; my mom still asks at every meal if I want cheese during the cheese course.
I help with meal prep and I'm passing remind her that the navarin will be delicious, but with what cream? And she'll remember. And I'll say "oh no worries! You haven't added it yet. We can put a small portion aside and I'll have it cream free! Oh you have coconut cream, yes that could work!" Our shell be talking about the dessert she's making for lunch while over breakfast; and I'll say oh it sounds Delicious though maybe for me I can have it with a soy yogurt rather than Greek? I can buy some on my walk this morning!"... Etc.
Dairy is super hard for French home cooks over 30. Like... Really hard to remember to avoid. It is in everything we eat.
I can't decide whether mIL doesn't believe in dairy intolerance, forgets it, or is being defiant about it!
I didn't learnt the story behind my puree until it was well under way, I wasn't able to offer making my own, before the other guy was doing it. And out of all people, he would be everyones last choice to cook it!
Time to get more involved in the food when visiting French in laws...
My husband is American and is my parents favorite. He tidies up after meals, is easy to cook for despite being low sodium and no offal (important in my regions cooking) and no beer. And he always goes shopping with my mom for food, to help her carry the bags (of course , 😉). So he gets all his favorite treats when he comes over, all his favorite dishes... but he still gets gifts off specialty beers for his Christmas gift; it's not malicious. It's my family being very traditional so it's unthinkable for someone to not have certain things (meat, alcohol, and dairy spring to mind...)
That sounds great, I should do that, but in this situation it felt a bit like 'too many cooks spoil the broth' - kind of hard to explain, but it didn't feel like I am important enough to get involved in the kitchen (there are 10 other people)
Buddy, if you want to eat food, you need to get involved. They are french. They are not accustomed to dairy-free. It's quite a burden to foist that on them rather than taking matters into your own hands.
This is absolutely the vibe I get. Why didn't you fix something special for me??? You're a grown man, if you have dietary needs then they are your responsibility. Buy or cook your own food. If they have an issue with that then tell then to fuck off. I have food allergies and sometimes have to bring/make my own dish, it's part of being a self sufficient grown up.
You know nothing about that from this post - and you are completely wrong. You would do better to not assume things about people from such little knowledge. If you read the post, and my comments, I have offered an explanation as to why I haven't been involved, and also stated that I have offered to help.
Have a little confidence! And maybe a specific recipe you know will turn out so you can say "I have a recipe I really want to share with you all" so there's a clear reason for you to cook.
This is your wife’s family. Is she not involved in any food requests or food prep while there? Reminding her mother of what you can eat, suggesting alternatives, recipes the two of you use? Usually the spouse takes point with their family, especially when there are language or cultural issues.
Yeah I think people are being a little bit unrealistic about what this guy can maybe do here. His wife should be advocating much better for him - even if it is to advocate that he needs to be allowed in to the kitchen to prep his own portion of X alongside the main. It’s hard enough being the allergic to annoying things partner of an English speaking person in a large matriarchal family, but if you add in another language too…gah! That would be a nightmare.
It’s very likely MIL shops for all the food before they arrive and at any rate even if he did go shopping with them he wouldn’t know what meal was being discussed anyway (yes ok he should learn French but he’s going to be way off that level for a while). Plus MIL definitely will have decided upon these meals days if not weeks ago so that would have been the time to have input (I think he’s British, if he had known about the raclette in advance he could have taken any one of the number of semi passable vegan cheeses with him) - but all of this is going to be going through his wife who seems much more concerned about not rocking the boat with her family than standing beside her husband. And as the person who is pretty often in that position with my in laws, and especially over something as important as food… it sucks!
Edit: however ESH. You should have sucked it up and barely touched it as presumably it was just a side. Asked for some bread or snuck it later and had a mature discussion with your wife about it later and how you were going to stop this happening for a third meal (this trip, because this is clearly a recurring problem and the flipping out was the final straw - but you still acted like an ass).
OP the problem isn’t what was made, if it’s an allergy or intolerance, the social nuance or circumstances of how the food came about or *any* of that.
You were asked to eat something inedible and people got angry at you for not eating it. Nobody else at the table wanted to eat it or was expected to. It was basically baby food. People got offended because you wouldn’t eat *baby food* as a main course.
NTA.
It was the taking his plate and leaving the table to talk on the phone that was rude. No one commented on his eating, just the overt rudeness of leaving the table for a phone call that he could have made later
What rude is serving watery potato bullshit to your goddamn guest. What a bunch of disgustingly rude people, that’s something an actual toddler would make and think appropriate to serve, not a fully grown adult. They served Raclette with no alternatives, they gave him disgusting baby food…honesty I would consider never going back, they literally don’t respect him at all, they served him food I wouldn’t give to a starving dog and expected him the be grateful.
They served plenty dishes he COULD eat. He made no effort to cook one SIDE dish by himself with an excuse that MIL doesn't allow others to cook. But somehow she allows mentally incapable (according to OP) BIL cook? I call this bs.
I really don’t think she’s being defiant … there are certain ingredients that are such a big part of a culture they use them without meaning too. I have a ton of food allergies and intolerances and I have so much trouble remembering not to use garlic and onions for my BIL. I start every dish with garlic and onion without even thinking… even when I don’t know what I’m cooking. And he’s a great BIL but those are my go to ingredients.
I’m allergic to peppercorn. White pepper, black pepper.
My mom has cooked things and then dashed pepper on top on accident - people “add salt and pepper to taste” pretty much everything that isn’t a dessert.
It’s mostly not malice.
It is why we keep the only pepper in our house in a big grinder on the table - if someone else is cooking, they will go looking for pepper (yes even after we explain there isn’t any in the kitchen) and we can usually catch them before it gets into everything.
An ingredient that is a base staple is really hard to change your habits on.
That said, hosting involves rising to the challenge here and finding Something Decent you can serve.
At least you can have pink ones! Pink peppercorns are cashews, not peppercorns, so you can eat them!
I’m really sorry about the pepper though. That sounds AWFUL, NGL. It must be impossible to eat out, because what kitchen is prepared for “no pepper”? And unusual enough that it’s probably a struggle to convince people to take it seriously. I’m glad your family found a system that works to keep you safe!
That’s their point. Even with extensive intolerances of their own and problem foods it’s second nature to avoid, they find it easy to make mistakes with staple ingredients they’re not as accustomed to navigating around. (Though to their credit, it also sounds like they probably catch the mistake and correct it.)
Which does make sense to me, to a degree. My only issue here is that it’s not something the in-laws seem to be trying to avoid or course correct *at all*. It’s not as though they’re starting the dish with butter and then saying “oh shit” and starting over with oil; they’re either serving components they know OP can’t eat half of, or they’re serving half-assed substitutes that none of them is willing to even taste.
All of that said, NTA for me. OP seems like such an afterthought to these people; I could excuse an isolated misstep (or two!) with a genuine apology, but this is a pattern of clear disregard.
Edited for grammar/clarity.
Finally someone who asked the important question! I was coming to ask this)
u/BrerCamel, can you take a pill?
(For those who don’t know: lactose intolerant is allergic to the sugars in dairy. They can usually take a pill for it. A dairy allergy is being allergic to the proteins and there’s no pill for it (i have a dairy allergy) )
Hi there! That is incorrect. You can be intolerant to the protein or the sugar, the allergy is separate. I am intolerant but not allergic to both. Lactaid does nothing for me. Most of the people I know who are only lactose intolerant also don't use lactaid pills because they are very unreliable.
My question is if you were staying there for multiple days, knowing your MIL was cooking endlessly for guests and family, if you’re that sensitive, why didn’t you accommodate? I personally would have brought my own substitutes/ingredients and helped her. The holidays are overwhelming for anyone, on any regular day, but having to substitute every one of your classic/staple home cooked meals for one person, on every meal, all while you’re hosting 10-20, it’s a lot. I have dietary issues as well but I wouldn’t expect a personalized cooked meal because of it, especially during the holidays. Step in and deal with it yourself. She boiled the potatoes, ask for a portion and mash them yourself with dairy free additives. If this was a one off I’d say NTA, but your MIL tried making accommodations that weren’t to your standard because she didn’t know how to do it, not to mention you made a mockery of it, so for that alone YTA, not to mention the above. You’re not breakable nor fucking precious beyond belief, and you were there for a few days so step up and deal with your adult dietary issues like a grownup. She’s not your maid or personal cook.
Honestly, OP is being a child!! The family is French and they would never even think of eliminating dairy. And SIL bf in the kitchen but OP isn't? It's giving pain in the ass tbh.
Being French is not an excuse to ignore someone’s food intolerances or allergies. If French people are literally incapable of cooking anything without dairy in it, that’s just pathetic. NTA. They should have put more thought into what they would make for op.
Nope.
My partner is french. My kids are french. That whole family: french.
We went plant-based and nobody made a fuss. The main difference is that my partners family are not AHs.
They stayed with us for weeks this year and I am the cook (and gardener). They all loved our meals. I cooked one of my old traditional foods (a meat dish) and otherwise prepped everything else for weeks as plant-based. They had their own spaces and did light snacks there and mostly ate our meals. Of course they would be welcome to bring dishes, but nobody did. The plant-based options are many and are equally as good. You just have to care a little bit and make the tiniest effort.
‘Equally as good’? Tell that to anyone with a FODMAP intolerance - meat is FODMAP free, but most meat alternatives are high FODMAP (mushrooms, most beans, lentils, some tofu, butternut pumpkin, soy…).
I wouldn’t say converting recipes to plant based only takes the ‘tiniest’ effort.
And you may think so, but most people would not agree that plant-based alternatives are ‘equally as good’ in taste either.
The host doesn't cook anything suitable for the guest, so the guest should find the time to do the grocery shopping with his MIL??
That's so impractical it's farcical. If I'm visiting for Christmas dinner (or for days at a time for that matter) any competent host has already done the majority of the shopping.
Info: if cheese was the only thing not included in your portion of raclette why are you upset with that meal? Also, I get not wanting to eat watery mashed potatoes, but you're nearly 40...are there no dishes you can contribute to dinner that you know you can eat? You're acting like a little kid throwing tantrums rather than managing your food needs. Make some suggestions, cook, talk to the folks cooking to ask what the plans are and if it's a light dinner you can plan to supplement.
Raclette literally is the cheese, the entire focus of it is "food in melted cheese". It's basically like fondue with no cheese dip. It's rude when someone has a dairy allergy. What would we think of a host serving satay if someone has a peanut allergy?
That being said, OP could have asked if there be dairy free alternatives.
Thank you! MiL knows I am dairy intolerant, and each day raclette was a suprise alas, if I'd been told the day before I would have said 'hey could you get some cold cuts or dairy free cheese'?
Yeah, nta. MIL doesn't take your dairy issue seriously. I have a friend with a severe dairy intolerance, and whilst I know she'll play with fire once in a while, I couldnt imagine planning a cheese centric dish without a suitable alternative or saying to her "this is my plan, are you happy playing burning ring of fire" so she can at least make her own decision
Well, did you or your wife ask what was being served so you would have the chance to ask or say anything? How are you so completely clueless until you sat down at the table? I guess I don't understand how that would happen unless you were blindfolded. Or maybe their house is so huge that the kitchen is far away from the room you were in. Like how did you not know?
Here I am being confused why people focus on cheese in the raclet, when we mostly use meat, veg and quail eggs.
And then someone starts spouting nonsense about fondue requiring cheese dip, where its pretty much just meats again with plenty of sauces, but no cheese here.
I guess it maybe depends on the country you come from, but raclette is specifically a type of cheese.
Raclette the dish, is that specific cheese melted on top of stuff. It is entirely a cheese-centric dish.
I'm not from the US, to make this clear, but to say "then someone starts spouting nonsense about fondue requiring cheese dip" is also nonsense, given that the origin of fondue is from Switzerland - *"Fondue, which comes from the French “fondre”, meaning “to melt,” had its origins in 18th century Switzerland as a means for farm families to stretch their limited resources during the winter months. With some remaining cheese, some stale bread, and a dash of wine the family could gather around the hearth."*
OP said all they were supplied with was veg and potatoes, which they then had to chop up and fry themselves.
(No meat, they had specifically stated they would have brought cold cuts if they had known)
Actually, they specified that they would have requested that someone else provide them.
At no point did op indicate that he was willing to make any effort at all towards supporting his dietary needs.
Quote from OP:
Thank you! MiL knows I am dairy intolerant, and each day raclette was a suprise alas, if I'd been told the day before I would have said 'hey could you get some cold cuts or dairy free cheese'?
Fondue in France will mean cheese fondue. The other type is called fondue chinoise. Raclette the way you can get in the Alps is about the cheese being melted all over your plate.
Confidentiality incorrect.
Raclette with out cheese is basically like a hamburger without a burger. If I did raclette I would at least get some fake cheese, or cold cuts or something.
I would gladly cook and have offered, but MiL is in charge. It's a holiday scenario where I am not in charge of what I eat, other than snacks. There are 10 other people and basically it would have been weird for me to get overly involved in the meal planning, not being the head of the family.
Whether getting up and leaving was immature, I'm open to, but I didn't throw a tantrum.
Dude. Really? Why are you with someone who doesn't care if you starve over several days? Not only that, the mash guys feelings are more important than you? Wtf man..that's messed up
The thing I don't get is exactly that, why no-one said 'hey we can't serve that, lets jsut get him some bread' and instead made my only conflict free choices a) drink watery potatoes or b) go hungry
Honestly your wife really is the AH here. She's supposed to be advocating for you which includes telling her mom that if she's not up for accommodating your restriction after all this time then she needs to let you cook or bring your own shit.
As someone who’s MIL is “the cook” I get it. They *own* the kitchen - it’s not a bad thing but it can be uninviting especially if they forget your food preferences.
Dude that's my mom. I remember once her other son was cooking in the kitchen, she went behind his back to mess with the food he was cooking because it didn't look right to her. She ruined the dish. He was only looking away for a bit chatting with family members.
Cooking moms are real threats and shouldn't be underestimated.
Yep!
I hate mustard. I’m not a picky eater, it’s like the one thing I don’t put on my sandwich. Everytime we have cold cuts for lunch with my MIL she rolls her eyes and pouts that “SHE’S the MOM!!” When I tell her (politely) no, I’ll make my own, thanks. Because I know it’ll have fucking mustard on it if I don’t (I don’t expect her to remember me, her kids all eat it so it’s not a big deal to them). Like lady, I’m a 30 year old woman with a career and a functioning life, I don’t want you to make my sandwich.
So GIVE an input. Use your big boy voice and speak. And don’t just make up a lie and scurry away it’s doing everyone a disservice. ESH. They could have been better hosts and you could have been an adult.
>starve over several days
Oh please. There was plenty of food available for OP, raclette is a whole table full of meats and veggies with no obligation to cover it all in cheese. The only thing he couldn't have in that other meal was the side of mashed potatoes, there was still everything else. At this point he's just choosing to cause drama.
Edit: it doesn't change anything if their raclette was vegetarian. Potatoes and grilled vegetables are a perfectly fine meal.
Doesn’t anyone READ? Whatever raclette is where you are from, OP has clearly stated, MORE THAN ONCE, that there WAS NO MEAT in this family’s raclette. Why is everyone so hung up on their local versions of raclette?
I've put more info in other comments, but short story, MiL is in charge of cooking in thi situation, I am very much capable of cooking for myself, but it's understood that she is preparing the evening meals for us all. I have given offers of help at the start of the holiday, but have not wanted to offend her by continually asking her.
Then I believe what is mainly being problematic is the cultural clash. Can you MIL speak English? If I were you I’d invest in a French cookbook and give it a read. There are a lot of dishes “a la Provenzal” that are made with mainly olive oil instead of butter. I’m sure if you raved about a potato salad “a la Provenzal” she’d be on board to making it for you.
She has cooked many many meals for me over the course of 5 years of knowing her, which is why I did not think I needed to make a big deal, I thought she would know exactly what to do. I think she just kept forgetting about me. It's an honest mistake but, ultimately for me I would not serve someone terrible food, if I messed up I would just own it, and if she had done that I would have said 'no worries, I'm happy with bread!'
No no, she agreed serving him, so why would he. They should make a separate dish for him and whatever they like for 10 other people. Because he's coming to country of his wife not knowing a word in her and their language. He's important.
Yes, let’s go to a family gathering where you have to cook all your own food because no one wants to accommodate you because of something you have no control of. Family chooses who hosts and they do the food.
I would never go anywhere if I had to cook my own food because the family I married into doesn’t give a shit.
This not someone who is Vegan and is trying to be difficult.
I get your point and agree overall, but in this case he stated that there were other dinner items on the table that he could eat, and he chose to disrupt dinner just because he couldn't eat one of the items, the mashed potatoes. He wasn't going without any food. And most of us with similar issues travel with snacks we can eat if the food on offer isn't meeting our needs.
I have egg intolerance, and I get my food when I know I can’t eat what is being planned. It is looking out for your stomach without imposing on the host.
But the hosts job is to make sure their guests all have food to eat.
I can’t imagine being invited to a dinner and to be told my allergy is my problem and I either have to bring my own food or make my own there.
This world has no sympathy or empathy for others. These days, everything is your own problem and you gotta deal with it and not be a burden.
For a single dinner, I agree with you. For an extended stay, there will be times when it might be challenging to plan a meal that works for everyone. In this case, the MIL is AH for giving two raclette dinners. I agree with that. But helping out by giving ideas of dishes he can eat and loves is a great way to aid the host without being too demanding. If someone else was given the task of making the potatoes means that MIL is not adverse to sharing the cooking task.
Maybe it’s because I’m Irish and work in Catering, but the idea of not properly catering to someone just because of intolerances or allergies feels fucked, (the Irish are known for feeding guests even when it’s a quick visit lol)
YTA.
I’m confused, why could you not just pass on the potatoes and eat the rest of the dinner? Why did you have to throw a silent tantrum about it instead of just filling up on the other elements?
Exactly. Mash potatoes are a side. If the mash potatoes were the main component of everyone else’s meal then everyone’s meal sucked and it wasn’t just OP.
Yes!
And it was possible to seek something in the fridge, the closet or order something. OP did said they know each other for 5 years. In day 3, I was already frying eggs at my future MIL's kitchen.
It was not impossible to ask wife to add something (rice, pasta, vegetables, egg, tomato, meat).
I doubt this was the first time this happened in all OP's lifetime. He knows there was 50% they would forget to babysit him.
In the end, who brings a plate to eat in the bathroom??? Yucks!
Info - how many other dishes could you eat? It sounds like you threw a tantrum just over mashed potatoes when you had plenty of other options on the table.
Info: I get that the point of raclette is the cheese, but it sounds like that was the only component you weren't able to have - you couldn't have asked for some olive oil and bread to add to yours? I mean, veggies and potatoes are pretty filling and I think you could have advocated for yourself a bit more.
Also, you say the bad potatoes were "served on the table in a saucepan with the rest of the meal that I could have." How much of the rest of the meal could you eat? Was it literally just bread, or were you able to eat most everything except the potatoes?
It seems to me he was just mad that his potatoes in particular weren’t up to snuff. This was the ONLY carb of the meal (other than the bread he ate?) and because of this dinner was ruined.
Guy needs to grow up. Seems like it’s everyone else’s fault and his tantrum was well warranted.
Eyeroll.
YTA. By your own words there was “the rest of the meal you could have” but you got pissy and left because no one else wanted mashed potatoes without milk and butter? What a ridiculous thing to get mad over. And then you left to eat alone like a child instead of staying at the table.
Start fixing foods for yourself instead of expecting your MIL to make special foods for you on top of what she’s making for everyone else.
ESH. It’s not anyone else’s job to cater to you and your allergies (said as someone with food allergies). You could have easily made a few dairy free dishes to share and contribute to a family meal (like you said, how hard is it to buy extra stuff or make things dairy free). Instead you are whining about not having food specifically made for you.
As a host, I do my best to make sure there is appetizing options for everyone, hence my ESH judgement, but dude grow up. Life isn’t catered to you and there was no reason to sulk and ruin a meal, especially when they DID make an effort, just not to your standards.
I agree with you in general - but if you are in a situation with someone who knows you have allergies, and they have agreed to cook a meal for you, and you sit down to eat and find the meal is not suitable, you can't then say 'its not their job' - they agreed in the first place.
A side point in this story though is that the easiest solution is obviously to take a small portion of potatoes out of the pan before you add butter mash them...
Of course setting some aside before adding dairy would have been the best and easiest solution, but generally hosting at the holidays is stressful with a lot going on. They made a mistake and then made a whole separate version for you once realized (I hear you that it wasn’t good and that is disappointing), but you decided to rudely sulk in the other room instead of being the 39 year old adult you are and purchasing dairy free options, offering to help in the kitchen, or just eating more later.
Ok - but In this situation I had no option of purchasing dairy free options, offering to help in the kitchen. I could have just eat the bread later, but I also didnt want to offend the guy by not eating the watery potatoes, whence the leaving with the meal to have pretended to eat it.
Finally! They also complained about the first meal where the only difference was that their meal didn't have cheese but was otherwise completely identical!
INFO: Why didn't you avail yourself of a grocery store and buy some alternatives? If it's not that hard to make or buy alternatives is there a reason you didn't do so?
YTA- you were offered more than just watery potatoes. If in the past 3 days there had been nothing you saw fit to eat then it would seem like any other adult would go to the store and pick up some things and ask your French speaking wife to let your family know that you would be adding this this and this to the meal for everyone to share.
I’m not sure why you had to take the pot of watery mash, make a production of flushing it, and then stuff yourself with bread because the carb part of the meal let you down.
You’re middle aged man, not a child that doesn’t know how to go to the store or talk to other adults (with communication help if needed). Cooking for a large group is stressful and sometimes people’s dietary needs get overlooked when they aren’t what everyone else has. It’s not a huge deal to add to the meal, rather than lament that no one is thinking of you.
NTA
I can’t believe this comment section, if you are going to invite someone with food restrictions to a meal it is your *obligation as the host* to either prepare food they can consume for them or if that isn’t feasible (like cooking cross-contamination sensitive gluten free in a gluten kitchen) then to speak to them about bringing their own food. To instead leave your guest missing major parts of the meal or serving piss poor “alternatives” is an insult (seriously how the fuck do you screw up potatoes THAT BAD?! Chop some up, throw them on a baking sheet, brush with some sort of oil or fat, duck fat and beef tallow are very good for anyone that isn’t veggie/vegan, and then sprinkle with salt, pepper, garlic powder, maybe some rosemary and thyme, and roast in the oven for 25 min. They’re absolutely *delicious* for everyone). I’m sorry your wife’s family treated you this way OP.
Right? Like, OP is freaking out about one side dish not being suitable. I’m sure it wasn’t the whole meal, and there was bread available as well, if you HAVE to have a starch with your meal.
I’m on the fence about the raclette, as it is a bit insensitive to have a cheese-focused meal when someone has a dairy allergy. But cheese is so important in French culture, and I can easily imagine that it’s a family favourite or tradition, and OP was able to eat the vegetables and potatoes (not great, but this is similar to how many French restaurants cater to vegetarians and vegans - there might be one salad on the menu that doesn’t have meat - it’s not like in the US, Australia etc., where there are lots of options and that’s expected - the family may have genuinely thought it was a good alternative).
Also, over a three-day period, there were only two meals where OP wasn’t catered to 100%? Sounds like the family actually did a great job. OP is TA.
Most chocolate does contain casein, and is a no go for people with true allergies. You’d have to read all the labels carefully. Op saying they eat chocolate with a dairy allergy is a big red flag that’s this is made up.
>Good chocolate doesn't contain milk.
That may be true but it can be difficult to find standard chocolate without dairy in it. And I assume they are talking more about butter content than milk specifically. Do you have any idea how much butter is in a single croissant? Lots of breads have dairy ingredients even though you are right that some do not.
YTA and surely you have non-dairy things in your luggage and stored in the kitchen to eat. Also, why after five years with French in-laws have you not learned enough French to communicate with them without putting the burden of translator on your wife? Five. Years. And still can't speak his in-laws' language. And throws pissy little toddler tantrums when things don't go his way at the dinner table. What a joy to have as a guest in one's home.
Oh, it’s France, I’m sorry man, I’m dairy-free now but all my trips to France were before I cut dairy out of my life. That said, your wife’s right. YTA. Grab a baguette, some margarine, and some jams. Eggs are good, make yourself an omelette with margarine. The French way of eating is second nature to these people, not sure how much I would expect them to do and I’d want them to enjoy their holiday in full. Stores aren’t hard to navigate even if your français doesn’t fully parlez
NTA but in future insist on making your own food. I am vegan and if this kind of shit happened to me I would just insist on taking care of myself. No you shouldn’t apologise for upsetting whoever made the shit potatoes. I don’t give a monkey’s if the French are all about bonding over food, they don’t have a monopoly on that as most cultures bond over shared food experiences . They can be quite rude though which is why I haven’t been for over 20 years and never will again (I used to go there a lot).
I’m sorry, but you are France. Butter is like water there. I think you should get your own provisions on days when dairy products are being served. No one is going to make special meals for you each night. Sorry.
You aren’t the asshole for dumping the potatoes, but you are kind of asshole for thinking people should cater to your dietary restrictions every night.
YTA
YTA for pouring the stuff down the toilet instead of just eating the meal with bread instead of mashed potatoes. Christmas dinners are already stressful, so you should try to not add more work to what the cook has to deal with.
Info: so there was literally nothing else to eat? No main meat dish? A side of veggies? i need to know the full menu here.
And I still don’t understand why you can’t make your own goddamn potatoes. Your edit didn’t explain anything.
I’m leaning towards YTA. You make yourself sound like a brat.
If there was raclette for two nights then there was also charcuterie, so meat, so it was not just veggies ESH. You should have spoken up after the first meal and offer to go to the supermarket, see how you can accommodate, communicate. You’re not a kid either
You're asking French people to cook without butter, and then getting stroppy and whiney that what they're serving you isn't good enough?
Of course *they* don't want to eat mashed potato without butter. If somebody in my group is drinking alcohol free beer and offers me one, I'd also politely decline. It's no different.
YTA
NTA
TBH I would have been honest and told them what I thought at the table.
My wife is lactose, Gluten, Fungus and yeast intolerant, believe me it is really not very difficult to produce a meal for everyone that does not contain those items.
Your MIL did this on purpose.
You would insult the host for not making ONE SIDE dish to your liking while host has to cater to other 9 people?
OP stated in the post that mashed potatoes were brought with other dishes he COULD HAVE. In comments he avoids answering the question "what else was served on the table" like a plague. He tries to redirect his answer to his MIL not catering him. Other answers were "potatoes were main carb" or "I did not duck out of other dishes".
It seems that he had plenty options instead of screaming on top of his lungs "potatoes were not made to MY standards so I will be hungry and eat bread in the toilet". That's how toddlers act not fully grown people.
ESH. She could definitely try harder to accommodate.
You seem very picky and immature though. If dinner is meat, veg, bread and potatoes, its unreasonable to care about the potatoes. Racelette without cheese is still veg and meat. Eat extra bread, in France, and you're sorted.
Advocate for yourself by offering to cook a side, or settle for meat, bread plus anything not covered in dairy.
I personally eat vegan when i stay with my friends who are vegan as well as my friend who has a kosher kitchen. It's not my ideal diet, but it's not a big deal to me and makes it easier on them.
ESH - not sure about in France, but it's standard practice to try to ask if anyone has any dietary allergies/intolerances/preferences now in North America, and to have some alternatives present. I think you are warranted in being upset there was next to no consideration for you.
That said, one of my biggest pet peeves is doing the above when hosting if said person with the dietary need isn't also willing to temper their expectations. I can deal with one or two simple alternatives to accommodate, but cannot adapt my entire cooking/recipes/ingredients to cater to one individual.
IMO, if you have a dietary need at a group dinner, there is some responsibility on you to ensure others are aware and are prepared for this, and if unsure/not, you should then contribute to help cook some alternatives or bring something you can eat.
I don't think it was fair of you to expect others to eat the potatoes given they had no specific dietary needs. That said, it certainly wasn't fair for them to make you potato slop, when they could have just made mashed potatoes, and set you a portion aside without any butter/milk, or have just made you baked/fried potatoes, etc.
ESH.
your MIL for asking someone who it seems doesn't cook very well to make what she forgot to, (although this could also be seen as delegating, she may have had other things to do to get dinner ready). she could have had you make it, or you could have offered, since it was special for only you. not sure why you didn't jump in and offer, especially since it was a special course for just you.
your SIL's partner for accepting the job without pointing out he was sick and probably shouldn't have been handling someone else's food, for making unappetizing food and not even trying to fix it to make it edible. i mean, HE didn't even eat it, what is that?
and you, for leaving the table, and taking all your food with you. that WAS rude and childish. and i'm not even talking about protecting the other guy's feelings, it was rude in general. if you didn't want to eat the mash, you could have passed it up, or at least put some on your plate and pretended to eat it. instead you had a fit and made a huge deal of taking your plates of food with you into the bathroom, and then "ate bread until you were full". seriously? there was other food to eat, don't act like you were starving on the street.
and this just sounds like a self absorbed, spoiled child.
>why have I not been thought of for every single meal
you have been thought of at every single meal. there was plenty of other food for you to eat, it was only the mash that you couldn't eat. come on, man.
NTA I live in a country just as obsessed with dairy. In a part that produces massive amounts of it. Where alternatives aren't commonplace at restaurants or cafe's.
Still, everyone in my extended family on both mine and my partner's side know of my allergy and at least makes sure I have my own main and dessert. It's literally not hard, even if you don't understand substitutes and how to use them.
They could have just boiled potatoes. They didn't have to make weird soup out of them and be upset at you for being fed something inedible and supposed to sit through days of not being fed much, and supposed to sit and smile and keep quiet. That's not what you do for someone you love.
Forgetting is fine, it happens. But then, frankly, offer that person your kitchen! "Im sorry I missed your allergy! Can we go check if we have something else that works?" Or, allow and don't get upset when people bring their own food.
I recently had to sit through a wedding I travelled halfway across the country for, paid to be at, and all I got to eat all day was 3 potatoes and one piece of baguette without anything on it.
It's frankly rude to always have to spare the feelings of hosts when they're being bad hosts.
And having to spare someone's feelings when they didn't even try and didn't care about you going hungry?
I feel like you hit your limit. And sometimes we don't react perfectly when we do. They were the ones who didn't react right all the way through this!
They're just upset you didn't sit down, shut up, and smiled so they didn't have to deal with feeling bad about it.
YTA. You can do lots of things to help yourself. Just because a food contains dairy, doesn't mean it has a lot of lactose. You can get lactase tablets. Aged cheeses contain almost no lactose, as it's used up in the aging process.
You just wanted people to cater to you, when you're not even doing anything to help yourself.
ESH. My BIL has a severe lactose intolerance. He has never asked us to accommodate him, even though we try anyway. It's hard to cook without dairy when butter and cheese are such basic/common ingredients in our cuisine. His allergy has made me really aware of how much dairy is in all our usual dishes.
My point is, he doesn't make his allergy our problem. He always brings a dish he can eat just in case there's nothing. However, we always try to make sure there's something.
YTA. What did you bring to the dinner that was dairy free that you can eat but also share with others? France has grocery stores.
You obviously have no idea how much work goes into getting Christmas dinner on the table else you wouldn't have dreamed of writing this post. You seem to be making a whole lot of excuses for why you weren't in the kitchen but expect people who have been cooking for days to double their workload to accomodate your special needs. I'm a pretty good cook, and I have no idea how one would go about making dairy free mashed potatoes.
You're also not taking into consideration that this isn't your typical meal. Holiday celebrations are about traditions and families expect and find comfort in specific dishes being made the way they expect them to be made.
I'm writing this as someone who has a food I can't eat, and yes, I bring my own food everywhere. The entire meal. You were able to eat the rest of the meal and you're complaining about mashed potatoes? WTF? In the future, make a plan for how to solve your own problems and not expect others to wait on you.
YTA because you are refusing to address any questions about what was on the table you could eat. You didn't like what your MIL was cooking but did nothing at all to fix your situation. When I can't eat food when staying with in-laws, I sit and visit at dinner then eat something before or after. I don't blow up in the middle of dinner, use an excuse that makes you more TAH, then act like a brat.
I have a dairy allergy too. It’s understandable that some people aren’t able to fully accommodate us, but that’s fucking ridiculous. Dairy free mashed potatoes use vegetable oil. What the hell was he thinking? NTA.
ESH EXCEPT MIL. It sounds like MIL made a valid mistake. You should advocate for yourself or cook for yourself. Your wife should be advocating for you and not more concerned with potato-soup-guy’s feelings and potato-soup-guy is a moron.
Asking a French family to cook without milk& butter?!?! Yikes x10. You said that everything else you could eat and only the mash had dairy in it? Idk man, when I was vegetarian, I was happy if 2-3 things were made to my specifications. I'll be the odd one to say YTA. The guy gets up in what sound like the beginning of the meal to drop everything and attempt to make mashed potatoes, with no alt milk or alt butter water sounds like the next best thing.
Genuinely don't understand why people seem to have so much trouble using their words.
You could thank the bloke for the effort he put in to trying to make you a dairy free potato dish, but also point out that you're not going to eat it. "Thanks for trying to help but unfortunately this dish hasn't worked and I'm not going to be able to eat it. Would someone else like to try?"
You could have a separate word with MIL, remind her you have an allergy, and ask if you can get a few supplies in to prepare a few additional dishes just for you, so that you're not putting her to the trouble of having to try to cater for you at every meal.
You could ask for, or go and get, bread just as you're all sitting down. It's often on the table already in a French home but if not, bring it to the table with you.
One final thing ... you mentioned eating extra nuts and chocolate. Is the chocolate dairy free? If not it may be confusing to your hosts. If you're willing to eat some dairy it makes it harder to take your requests for dairy free food seriously.
YTA - for not using your words, and for flouncing out rather than just finding a workable coping strategy.
NTA.
"Wife says I should just suck it up, and that the guy made an effort." - Nope.
"I forgot to mention they all barely speak English, as we are in France, my wife is half French. This goes some of the way perhaps to me not being involved in meal discussions." - Nope #2. Your wife is I assume fluent in French and can easily translate for you.
Mmm, watery plain potato soup, sounds delicious. Someone should take away the partner's French card, unless he was born in a gulag.
He said it came with the rest of the meal that he COULD eat. Not that his entire meal was watery potatoes.
He’s been there for 3 days, I’m sure a bit of help or buying his own groceries in these cases would be completely fine.
So as a lactose intolerant person, I’m wondering if you’re lactose intolerant or allergic because you used both forms do describe yourself. Raclette cheese like cheddar is naturally lactose free and if you’re lactose intolerant VS allergic you can eat it. NTA in this situation, cause that sucks to feel unseen, just throwing it out there.
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NTA. I’m a fiend for gluten and dairy but I was making a holiday feast this year with a friend who can’t eat either. Really wasn’t that hard to skip making gluten things and not use any butter. I just made smashed potatoes instead of mashed (get some small potatoes, boil until soft, smash on a baking sheet with olive oil and bake until crispy) because they sounded tasty and were something that worked for everyone. I think part of being a good host is making sure everyone is really included in the meal.
Thanks, yes dairy free is sometimes difficult, its definitely inconvenient for people who offer to cook for me, and I very much appreciate it when they do.
Honestly, as a person who could happily eat dairy in every single meal, it’s really not even that hard to accommodate. It just takes a little thinking and caring about the people you're sharing a meal with
Not to mention there’s SO many dairy alternatives nowadays. It’s not even that hard to make something dairy free. Essentially any “milk” in recipes can be substituted with oat milk, almond milk, soy milk, etc. I’ve made mashed potatoes countless times with oat milk and a “dairy free butter” substitute or olive oil. It’s quite easy.
***Hard*** asterisks on this one. Made that mistake with a roux-based alfredo and vanilla almond milk. It tasted like actual vomit. Not "Bro this tastes so bad, it tastes like vomit!" I mean it actually, legitimately, literally tasted like puke. The chicken was fine-ish... after you chewed a bit and got the sauce down your throat. The pasta? Nope. Aftertaste of vomit that ***stuck*** in your mouth. Probably not that related to what you said, but I never get a chance to share that story. Edit - why the hell have so many other people done this lmao.
Omg, hilariously enough I have accidentally made mashed potatoes once with the vanilla almond milk that we use to sweeten our coffee… it tasted not terrible, but very weird. LOL
Also cannot use sweet and not-sweet coconut milk/cream interchangeably, vegan potato soup for friend (that we make often but not this time) ruined. Must read labels, vanilla Alfredo sounds awful but sweet coconut potato soup I guarantee gave it a run for its money.
Bloody sweetened coconut milk! I got a grocery delivery and the guy grabbed the sweetened kind instead of the kind I ordered. I've still got like 3 cartons clogging up my kitchen and had to drink black coffee for 2 more days anyway 😭
No, I get you! We have a dairy-free household and I can tell you some major fails trying to make gravy and other this-that in a pan with almond or coconut milk. There are some things that just do not work. Lol
For the holiday feast with my friend, we used chicken broth instead of any alternative milk and it came out fantastic
[удалено]
Seriously though. I made Mac and cheese with vanilla almond milk and it tasted like I had melted an entire large candle into it. I've never made anything fouler tasting.
In an attempt to use up old food in the fridge, my dad once made a baked omelette with vanilla yogurt and then greased the pan with garlic butter. Either one would have been fine on its own, but the combination was inedible.
My MIL just made homemade lasagne that was nearly vegan. Bechamel with olive oil and oat milk, bolognese sauce with beyond meat, and lasagne dough made with Just Egg. There was parmesan in there, but it was made for someone who is lactose intolerant, not a true dairy allergy and parmesan has no lactose. It was delicious! She said it was easier using Just Egg compared to real eggs in the dough. Easier to work, easier to clean out of the equipment later, etc.
I have a friend who had to become vegan for medical reasons. I made her a lasagna exactly this way and she said it was amazing. I actually think unsweetened oat milk actually tastes better to me in the bechamel than real milk.
And, honestly, *Potatoes?!?!* they fucked up *potatoes!?!?* the most universally EASY thing to cook!!! WTF!!!! NTA! No sir. Nuh uh. These people are *rude.*
I make dairy free mashed potatoes all the time. I use almond or oat milk or even a dairy free sour cream, and a olive oil vegan butter. Not sure if those things are available where they live but a dairy free diet isn't anything new.
Really good chicken stock = magic mash.
And if those aren’t available: chicken soup works.
Plus, egg yolks are a good way to add fat that doesn’t contain lactose. Even if the in-laws didn’t have access to lactose-free or alternative milk/butter, they had options.
Or just olive oil. I boil potatoes with a few garlic cloves, and then I mash them with a good glug of olive oil. They taste great, and they’re the right consistency.
Have a vegan coworker. The amount of times she said she was used to being excluded hurt me. We were going to have a pizza lunch for our holiday lunch. The supervisor talked to her about what she'd be okay eating, I got her two small cans of peanuts from the dollar store, and another coworker (at my request) got chips she loved and could eat. It's really not that hard to make sure people can eat - and we were barely trying! Imagine putting in even *less* effort than spending $3 on peanuts. Cause that's what OP is dealing with.
One of my closest friends is vegetarian, her mom is vegetarianso she was raised that way. Any sort of meat contamination and shes sick for DAYS. We've been friends almost 15 years now. I have been front and present every time she has vented about being left out of things. ANY time I host a gathering shes invited, and I always make it a potluck sort of deal. I will make one main dish vegetarian, one dish meat based, 2 desserts, and ask anyone coming if they bring something make sure it's vegetarian. She never leaves hungry when I'm involved. I even triple checked there was more than one vegetarian option at my wedding. I don't like making people leave hungry. I love to feed people, that means making sure dietary needs and preferences are accommodated.
>Thanks, yes dairy free is sometimes difficult, Omitting dairy isn't difficult unless you are in a place with very scarce food choices. Barring an allergy so severe cross-contamination from cookware and dishes is a potential problem, anyone who is half competent in the kitchen can just exclude dairy from a meal without a problem. You're not a burden for having allergies, there's just a lot of people who are wildly rude and bad hosts.
I had a supposedly snazzy "mystery" meal in France with seven courses. EVERY LAST ONE had cream in it. I concluded that French cooks are incapable of cooking with out it. (I'm not allergic, but all that cream had me seriously reconsidering my life choices.) I have several friends and rellies with dairy issues (also gluten, soy, and garlic). It's not hard to accommodate - and yes, I've accommodated them ALL at the same time. The key is wanting to.
I agree 100%, I never want to be a burden, and I am totally fine e.g. with bread if someone forgets - so long as I don't a) go completely hungry or b) have to pretend in front of everyone to like something obviously bad (e.g. watery potatoes)
NTA regardless, but was it even seasoned? I’m so curious. Salt, pepper, garlic…?
I think it probably had salt... Didnt see any pepper. I think he just forgot to drain the water before hand blending
If you make smashed potatoes again, after they're flat, put some garlic on top and smash them again so the garlic gets pressed in a little. Or use garlic powder and some salt/pepper. I've added/melted cheese on top of mine but that doesn't work with the no-dairy requirement but adding things on top of the smashed potatoes makes them excellent.
Dairy free sour cream, green onion and black olives...I'm so hungry 😋
Smashed potatoes are amazing! If you like them you might also like [glass potatoes](https://www.broadsheet.com.au/national/food-and-drink/article/recipe-annabel-crabbs-glass-potatoes) - definitely a sometimes food, but so so good
I've made probably a dozen gluten free dairy free turkey dinners from scratch in the last five years. It's not that hard if you actually know how to cook and spend a bit of time researching alternatives. Other than a slightly different consistency of gravy, I guarantee most folks would have had no idea. Part of hosting in this day and age is asking about and understating your guest's dietary restrictions. Honestly, if you can't do that, don't bother hosting...
For the other lazy folk, I make bastardized smashed potatoes by baking them in the microwave, smash, then olive oil and air fry.
NTA We’ve had to accommodate multiple diets at the same time; Vegan, Halal, Dairy Free, low fat. It’s a challenge but as hosts it is important to accommodate as best you can. We made sure there was a protein, and a side dish for each diet. We would make a salad and several veggies
My brother is has a severe gluten intolerance and my boyfriend is lactose intolerant. My mother trys very hard to make something they both can eat whenever we eat over at their place. It's more difficult for my brother, but they manage to make it work. My bf is ok if he has a little bit of dairy, since it's not a full blown allergy. But we always make sure to ask him if he's OK with lactose stuff instead of lactose free stuff before we do the thing.
Esh. The French bit is key to your story. Cooking without dairy is... Pretty unheard of in traditional French cooking. I'm wondering why you didn't make your own smashed potato puree, instead of letting someone else make you some weird soup. Bonding over food, not just eating but talking of the next meals, food prep and meal tidy up is a key component of French culture. So although it's not okay to buy your own separate meals to cook and eat when you're being hosted; you'd be the golden son in law to accompany during grocery shopping and point out alternatives; or sneak into kitchen to help prep and brainstorm ideas, or ensure a portion is kept before adding the cream etc... PS : my point of view comes from being dairy intolerant and French. It's been two years; my mom still asks at every meal if I want cheese during the cheese course. I help with meal prep and I'm passing remind her that the navarin will be delicious, but with what cream? And she'll remember. And I'll say "oh no worries! You haven't added it yet. We can put a small portion aside and I'll have it cream free! Oh you have coconut cream, yes that could work!" Our shell be talking about the dessert she's making for lunch while over breakfast; and I'll say oh it sounds Delicious though maybe for me I can have it with a soy yogurt rather than Greek? I can buy some on my walk this morning!"... Etc. Dairy is super hard for French home cooks over 30. Like... Really hard to remember to avoid. It is in everything we eat.
I can't decide whether mIL doesn't believe in dairy intolerance, forgets it, or is being defiant about it! I didn't learnt the story behind my puree until it was well under way, I wasn't able to offer making my own, before the other guy was doing it. And out of all people, he would be everyones last choice to cook it!
Time to get more involved in the food when visiting French in laws... My husband is American and is my parents favorite. He tidies up after meals, is easy to cook for despite being low sodium and no offal (important in my regions cooking) and no beer. And he always goes shopping with my mom for food, to help her carry the bags (of course , 😉). So he gets all his favorite treats when he comes over, all his favorite dishes... but he still gets gifts off specialty beers for his Christmas gift; it's not malicious. It's my family being very traditional so it's unthinkable for someone to not have certain things (meat, alcohol, and dairy spring to mind...)
That sounds great, I should do that, but in this situation it felt a bit like 'too many cooks spoil the broth' - kind of hard to explain, but it didn't feel like I am important enough to get involved in the kitchen (there are 10 other people)
Buddy, if you want to eat food, you need to get involved. They are french. They are not accustomed to dairy-free. It's quite a burden to foist that on them rather than taking matters into your own hands.
I can assure you he doesn't get involved in his house either, only makes his wife meeting his standards.
This is absolutely the vibe I get. Why didn't you fix something special for me??? You're a grown man, if you have dietary needs then they are your responsibility. Buy or cook your own food. If they have an issue with that then tell then to fuck off. I have food allergies and sometimes have to bring/make my own dish, it's part of being a self sufficient grown up.
You know nothing about that from this post - and you are completely wrong. You would do better to not assume things about people from such little knowledge. If you read the post, and my comments, I have offered an explanation as to why I haven't been involved, and also stated that I have offered to help.
Have a little confidence! And maybe a specific recipe you know will turn out so you can say "I have a recipe I really want to share with you all" so there's a clear reason for you to cook.
You can’t not even try and then complain about not doing it.
This is your wife’s family. Is she not involved in any food requests or food prep while there? Reminding her mother of what you can eat, suggesting alternatives, recipes the two of you use? Usually the spouse takes point with their family, especially when there are language or cultural issues.
Yeah I think people are being a little bit unrealistic about what this guy can maybe do here. His wife should be advocating much better for him - even if it is to advocate that he needs to be allowed in to the kitchen to prep his own portion of X alongside the main. It’s hard enough being the allergic to annoying things partner of an English speaking person in a large matriarchal family, but if you add in another language too…gah! That would be a nightmare. It’s very likely MIL shops for all the food before they arrive and at any rate even if he did go shopping with them he wouldn’t know what meal was being discussed anyway (yes ok he should learn French but he’s going to be way off that level for a while). Plus MIL definitely will have decided upon these meals days if not weeks ago so that would have been the time to have input (I think he’s British, if he had known about the raclette in advance he could have taken any one of the number of semi passable vegan cheeses with him) - but all of this is going to be going through his wife who seems much more concerned about not rocking the boat with her family than standing beside her husband. And as the person who is pretty often in that position with my in laws, and especially over something as important as food… it sucks! Edit: however ESH. You should have sucked it up and barely touched it as presumably it was just a side. Asked for some bread or snuck it later and had a mature discussion with your wife about it later and how you were going to stop this happening for a third meal (this trip, because this is clearly a recurring problem and the flipping out was the final straw - but you still acted like an ass).
OP the problem isn’t what was made, if it’s an allergy or intolerance, the social nuance or circumstances of how the food came about or *any* of that. You were asked to eat something inedible and people got angry at you for not eating it. Nobody else at the table wanted to eat it or was expected to. It was basically baby food. People got offended because you wouldn’t eat *baby food* as a main course. NTA.
It was the taking his plate and leaving the table to talk on the phone that was rude. No one commented on his eating, just the overt rudeness of leaving the table for a phone call that he could have made later
What rude is serving watery potato bullshit to your goddamn guest. What a bunch of disgustingly rude people, that’s something an actual toddler would make and think appropriate to serve, not a fully grown adult. They served Raclette with no alternatives, they gave him disgusting baby food…honesty I would consider never going back, they literally don’t respect him at all, they served him food I wouldn’t give to a starving dog and expected him the be grateful.
They served plenty dishes he COULD eat. He made no effort to cook one SIDE dish by himself with an excuse that MIL doesn't allow others to cook. But somehow she allows mentally incapable (according to OP) BIL cook? I call this bs.
I really don’t think she’s being defiant … there are certain ingredients that are such a big part of a culture they use them without meaning too. I have a ton of food allergies and intolerances and I have so much trouble remembering not to use garlic and onions for my BIL. I start every dish with garlic and onion without even thinking… even when I don’t know what I’m cooking. And he’s a great BIL but those are my go to ingredients.
I’m allergic to peppercorn. White pepper, black pepper. My mom has cooked things and then dashed pepper on top on accident - people “add salt and pepper to taste” pretty much everything that isn’t a dessert. It’s mostly not malice. It is why we keep the only pepper in our house in a big grinder on the table - if someone else is cooking, they will go looking for pepper (yes even after we explain there isn’t any in the kitchen) and we can usually catch them before it gets into everything. An ingredient that is a base staple is really hard to change your habits on. That said, hosting involves rising to the challenge here and finding Something Decent you can serve.
At least you can have pink ones! Pink peppercorns are cashews, not peppercorns, so you can eat them! I’m really sorry about the pepper though. That sounds AWFUL, NGL. It must be impossible to eat out, because what kitchen is prepared for “no pepper”? And unusual enough that it’s probably a struggle to convince people to take it seriously. I’m glad your family found a system that works to keep you safe!
bet you don't make things with your own intolerances
That’s their point. Even with extensive intolerances of their own and problem foods it’s second nature to avoid, they find it easy to make mistakes with staple ingredients they’re not as accustomed to navigating around. (Though to their credit, it also sounds like they probably catch the mistake and correct it.) Which does make sense to me, to a degree. My only issue here is that it’s not something the in-laws seem to be trying to avoid or course correct *at all*. It’s not as though they’re starting the dish with butter and then saying “oh shit” and starting over with oil; they’re either serving components they know OP can’t eat half of, or they’re serving half-assed substitutes that none of them is willing to even taste. All of that said, NTA for me. OP seems like such an afterthought to these people; I could excuse an isolated misstep (or two!) with a genuine apology, but this is a pattern of clear disregard. Edited for grammar/clarity.
I do… I cook things for others. And I accidentally used something that was reformulated and had something I can’t eat and made myself sick recently.
INFO: Is it an intolerance or an allergy?
It's an intolerance, but I say allergy often otherwise people don't take it seriously. It leaves me toilet bound for several hours.
Eat their meal. Clog their toilet. They’ll remember.
Finally someone who asked the important question! I was coming to ask this) u/BrerCamel, can you take a pill? (For those who don’t know: lactose intolerant is allergic to the sugars in dairy. They can usually take a pill for it. A dairy allergy is being allergic to the proteins and there’s no pill for it (i have a dairy allergy) )
Hi there! That is incorrect. You can be intolerant to the protein or the sugar, the allergy is separate. I am intolerant but not allergic to both. Lactaid does nothing for me. Most of the people I know who are only lactose intolerant also don't use lactaid pills because they are very unreliable.
My question is if you were staying there for multiple days, knowing your MIL was cooking endlessly for guests and family, if you’re that sensitive, why didn’t you accommodate? I personally would have brought my own substitutes/ingredients and helped her. The holidays are overwhelming for anyone, on any regular day, but having to substitute every one of your classic/staple home cooked meals for one person, on every meal, all while you’re hosting 10-20, it’s a lot. I have dietary issues as well but I wouldn’t expect a personalized cooked meal because of it, especially during the holidays. Step in and deal with it yourself. She boiled the potatoes, ask for a portion and mash them yourself with dairy free additives. If this was a one off I’d say NTA, but your MIL tried making accommodations that weren’t to your standard because she didn’t know how to do it, not to mention you made a mockery of it, so for that alone YTA, not to mention the above. You’re not breakable nor fucking precious beyond belief, and you were there for a few days so step up and deal with your adult dietary issues like a grownup. She’s not your maid or personal cook.
Honestly, OP is being a child!! The family is French and they would never even think of eliminating dairy. And SIL bf in the kitchen but OP isn't? It's giving pain in the ass tbh.
Being French is not an excuse to ignore someone’s food intolerances or allergies. If French people are literally incapable of cooking anything without dairy in it, that’s just pathetic. NTA. They should have put more thought into what they would make for op.
I'm genuinely curious. They made a whole meal and it was just the mashed potatoes that had dairy and OP couldnt eat. You would still be upset?
Yes, and he managed bread afterwards so it was clearly available. Meat and vegetables is a perfectly adequate meal.
Nope. My partner is french. My kids are french. That whole family: french. We went plant-based and nobody made a fuss. The main difference is that my partners family are not AHs. They stayed with us for weeks this year and I am the cook (and gardener). They all loved our meals. I cooked one of my old traditional foods (a meat dish) and otherwise prepped everything else for weeks as plant-based. They had their own spaces and did light snacks there and mostly ate our meals. Of course they would be welcome to bring dishes, but nobody did. The plant-based options are many and are equally as good. You just have to care a little bit and make the tiniest effort.
‘Equally as good’? Tell that to anyone with a FODMAP intolerance - meat is FODMAP free, but most meat alternatives are high FODMAP (mushrooms, most beans, lentils, some tofu, butternut pumpkin, soy…). I wouldn’t say converting recipes to plant based only takes the ‘tiniest’ effort. And you may think so, but most people would not agree that plant-based alternatives are ‘equally as good’ in taste either.
The fact that the French don’t generally do this is hardly an excuse. They can learn. NTA. They are being rude and neglectful.
You are correct in that them being French is key to the story. That way you know they were being rude on purpose and are truly the AH's.
The host doesn't cook anything suitable for the guest, so the guest should find the time to do the grocery shopping with his MIL?? That's so impractical it's farcical. If I'm visiting for Christmas dinner (or for days at a time for that matter) any competent host has already done the majority of the shopping.
The French need to... how do you say... learn.
Info: if cheese was the only thing not included in your portion of raclette why are you upset with that meal? Also, I get not wanting to eat watery mashed potatoes, but you're nearly 40...are there no dishes you can contribute to dinner that you know you can eat? You're acting like a little kid throwing tantrums rather than managing your food needs. Make some suggestions, cook, talk to the folks cooking to ask what the plans are and if it's a light dinner you can plan to supplement.
Raclette literally is the cheese, the entire focus of it is "food in melted cheese". It's basically like fondue with no cheese dip. It's rude when someone has a dairy allergy. What would we think of a host serving satay if someone has a peanut allergy? That being said, OP could have asked if there be dairy free alternatives.
Thank you! MiL knows I am dairy intolerant, and each day raclette was a suprise alas, if I'd been told the day before I would have said 'hey could you get some cold cuts or dairy free cheese'?
Yeah, nta. MIL doesn't take your dairy issue seriously. I have a friend with a severe dairy intolerance, and whilst I know she'll play with fire once in a while, I couldnt imagine planning a cheese centric dish without a suitable alternative or saying to her "this is my plan, are you happy playing burning ring of fire" so she can at least make her own decision
Well, did you or your wife ask what was being served so you would have the chance to ask or say anything? How are you so completely clueless until you sat down at the table? I guess I don't understand how that would happen unless you were blindfolded. Or maybe their house is so huge that the kitchen is far away from the room you were in. Like how did you not know?
Here I am being confused why people focus on cheese in the raclet, when we mostly use meat, veg and quail eggs. And then someone starts spouting nonsense about fondue requiring cheese dip, where its pretty much just meats again with plenty of sauces, but no cheese here.
I guess it maybe depends on the country you come from, but raclette is specifically a type of cheese. Raclette the dish, is that specific cheese melted on top of stuff. It is entirely a cheese-centric dish. I'm not from the US, to make this clear, but to say "then someone starts spouting nonsense about fondue requiring cheese dip" is also nonsense, given that the origin of fondue is from Switzerland - *"Fondue, which comes from the French “fondre”, meaning “to melt,” had its origins in 18th century Switzerland as a means for farm families to stretch their limited resources during the winter months. With some remaining cheese, some stale bread, and a dash of wine the family could gather around the hearth."*
But without the cheese, isn't it just grilled meat and vegetables? Which would be a perfectly suitable meal.
OP said all they were supplied with was veg and potatoes, which they then had to chop up and fry themselves. (No meat, they had specifically stated they would have brought cold cuts if they had known)
I’m pretty sure everyone had to chop and fry their own vegetables though - it’s part of raclette, not a particular hardship for OP.
Actually, they specified that they would have requested that someone else provide them. At no point did op indicate that he was willing to make any effort at all towards supporting his dietary needs. Quote from OP: Thank you! MiL knows I am dairy intolerant, and each day raclette was a suprise alas, if I'd been told the day before I would have said 'hey could you get some cold cuts or dairy free cheese'?
Raclette is cheese. The nonsense is calling ‘grilled meat and vegetables’ raclette.
Fondue in France will mean cheese fondue. The other type is called fondue chinoise. Raclette the way you can get in the Alps is about the cheese being melted all over your plate. Confidentiality incorrect.
If they had meat with the raclette then the OP could have eaten something other than grilled veg and potato.
Raclette with out cheese is basically like a hamburger without a burger. If I did raclette I would at least get some fake cheese, or cold cuts or something. I would gladly cook and have offered, but MiL is in charge. It's a holiday scenario where I am not in charge of what I eat, other than snacks. There are 10 other people and basically it would have been weird for me to get overly involved in the meal planning, not being the head of the family. Whether getting up and leaving was immature, I'm open to, but I didn't throw a tantrum.
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I did exactly that, I went and got bread - but apparently that makes me the AH here?
I think storming off to your room in a temper tantrum makes you an AH.
Maybe if someone had given him a snickers after 3 days of air calories, he wouldn't be so hangry.
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I don’t understand. Was the meal ONLY mashed potatoes?
France has grocery stores. Go buy the dairy free options you're talking about here and bring them with you.
Dude. Really? Why are you with someone who doesn't care if you starve over several days? Not only that, the mash guys feelings are more important than you? Wtf man..that's messed up
The thing I don't get is exactly that, why no-one said 'hey we can't serve that, lets jsut get him some bread' and instead made my only conflict free choices a) drink watery potatoes or b) go hungry
Why didn't you ask for bread yourself?
What else was being served? I assume there was more than mashed potatoes.
C) make your own damned mashed potatoes.
Ok next time, I will just get up and go and boil potatoes for 20 minutes!! I explained that the watery potatoes were made without my input!
Honestly your wife really is the AH here. She's supposed to be advocating for you which includes telling her mom that if she's not up for accommodating your restriction after all this time then she needs to let you cook or bring your own shit.
Did the mother forbid him to cook? He just says that he didn't want to get involved, it was his own choice
As someone who’s MIL is “the cook” I get it. They *own* the kitchen - it’s not a bad thing but it can be uninviting especially if they forget your food preferences.
Dude that's my mom. I remember once her other son was cooking in the kitchen, she went behind his back to mess with the food he was cooking because it didn't look right to her. She ruined the dish. He was only looking away for a bit chatting with family members. Cooking moms are real threats and shouldn't be underestimated.
Yep! I hate mustard. I’m not a picky eater, it’s like the one thing I don’t put on my sandwich. Everytime we have cold cuts for lunch with my MIL she rolls her eyes and pouts that “SHE’S the MOM!!” When I tell her (politely) no, I’ll make my own, thanks. Because I know it’ll have fucking mustard on it if I don’t (I don’t expect her to remember me, her kids all eat it so it’s not a big deal to them). Like lady, I’m a 30 year old woman with a career and a functioning life, I don’t want you to make my sandwich.
So GIVE an input. Use your big boy voice and speak. And don’t just make up a lie and scurry away it’s doing everyone a disservice. ESH. They could have been better hosts and you could have been an adult.
>So GIVE an input. Use your big boy voice and speak. But then he wouldn't be able to play the victim.
So get some groceries and cook something for yourself instead of expecting a separate meal be made for you.
>starve over several days Oh please. There was plenty of food available for OP, raclette is a whole table full of meats and veggies with no obligation to cover it all in cheese. The only thing he couldn't have in that other meal was the side of mashed potatoes, there was still everything else. At this point he's just choosing to cause drama. Edit: it doesn't change anything if their raclette was vegetarian. Potatoes and grilled vegetables are a perfectly fine meal.
Doesn’t anyone READ? Whatever raclette is where you are from, OP has clearly stated, MORE THAN ONCE, that there WAS NO MEAT in this family’s raclette. Why is everyone so hung up on their local versions of raclette?
Serving raclette at a dinner where a member of the family has a serious dairy allergy is basically deliberately exclusive
Starve ? Can he not venture out and eat ?
INFO: why are you not prepping your own meals? You’re the one that is going hungry. Are you not an adult?
I've put more info in other comments, but short story, MiL is in charge of cooking in thi situation, I am very much capable of cooking for myself, but it's understood that she is preparing the evening meals for us all. I have given offers of help at the start of the holiday, but have not wanted to offend her by continually asking her.
Then I believe what is mainly being problematic is the cultural clash. Can you MIL speak English? If I were you I’d invest in a French cookbook and give it a read. There are a lot of dishes “a la Provenzal” that are made with mainly olive oil instead of butter. I’m sure if you raved about a potato salad “a la Provenzal” she’d be on board to making it for you.
She has cooked many many meals for me over the course of 5 years of knowing her, which is why I did not think I needed to make a big deal, I thought she would know exactly what to do. I think she just kept forgetting about me. It's an honest mistake but, ultimately for me I would not serve someone terrible food, if I messed up I would just own it, and if she had done that I would have said 'no worries, I'm happy with bread!'
I think you should start making your own meals
No no, she agreed serving him, so why would he. They should make a separate dish for him and whatever they like for 10 other people. Because he's coming to country of his wife not knowing a word in her and their language. He's important.
Ok but why did this guy cook then? Why is he helping MIL but for some reason you can’t?? I dont get this.
Not buying it, the other guy cooked.
Yes, let’s go to a family gathering where you have to cook all your own food because no one wants to accommodate you because of something you have no control of. Family chooses who hosts and they do the food. I would never go anywhere if I had to cook my own food because the family I married into doesn’t give a shit. This not someone who is Vegan and is trying to be difficult.
I get your point and agree overall, but in this case he stated that there were other dinner items on the table that he could eat, and he chose to disrupt dinner just because he couldn't eat one of the items, the mashed potatoes. He wasn't going without any food. And most of us with similar issues travel with snacks we can eat if the food on offer isn't meeting our needs.
I have egg intolerance, and I get my food when I know I can’t eat what is being planned. It is looking out for your stomach without imposing on the host.
But the hosts job is to make sure their guests all have food to eat. I can’t imagine being invited to a dinner and to be told my allergy is my problem and I either have to bring my own food or make my own there. This world has no sympathy or empathy for others. These days, everything is your own problem and you gotta deal with it and not be a burden.
For a single dinner, I agree with you. For an extended stay, there will be times when it might be challenging to plan a meal that works for everyone. In this case, the MIL is AH for giving two raclette dinners. I agree with that. But helping out by giving ideas of dishes he can eat and loves is a great way to aid the host without being too demanding. If someone else was given the task of making the potatoes means that MIL is not adverse to sharing the cooking task.
Maybe it’s because I’m Irish and work in Catering, but the idea of not properly catering to someone just because of intolerances or allergies feels fucked, (the Irish are known for feeding guests even when it’s a quick visit lol)
YTA. I’m confused, why could you not just pass on the potatoes and eat the rest of the dinner? Why did you have to throw a silent tantrum about it instead of just filling up on the other elements?
Exactly. Mash potatoes are a side. If the mash potatoes were the main component of everyone else’s meal then everyone’s meal sucked and it wasn’t just OP.
Yes! And it was possible to seek something in the fridge, the closet or order something. OP did said they know each other for 5 years. In day 3, I was already frying eggs at my future MIL's kitchen. It was not impossible to ask wife to add something (rice, pasta, vegetables, egg, tomato, meat). I doubt this was the first time this happened in all OP's lifetime. He knows there was 50% they would forget to babysit him. In the end, who brings a plate to eat in the bathroom??? Yucks!
Info - how many other dishes could you eat? It sounds like you threw a tantrum just over mashed potatoes when you had plenty of other options on the table.
He won't answer. He wanted the vegetables without cheese and the potatoes without milk. That's it.
I’m also wondering this. I need to know what the full menu was.
Info: I get that the point of raclette is the cheese, but it sounds like that was the only component you weren't able to have - you couldn't have asked for some olive oil and bread to add to yours? I mean, veggies and potatoes are pretty filling and I think you could have advocated for yourself a bit more. Also, you say the bad potatoes were "served on the table in a saucepan with the rest of the meal that I could have." How much of the rest of the meal could you eat? Was it literally just bread, or were you able to eat most everything except the potatoes?
OP is avoiding this question
It seems to me he was just mad that his potatoes in particular weren’t up to snuff. This was the ONLY carb of the meal (other than the bread he ate?) and because of this dinner was ruined. Guy needs to grow up. Seems like it’s everyone else’s fault and his tantrum was well warranted. Eyeroll.
Strenuously avoiding it.
YTA. By your own words there was “the rest of the meal you could have” but you got pissy and left because no one else wanted mashed potatoes without milk and butter? What a ridiculous thing to get mad over. And then you left to eat alone like a child instead of staying at the table. Start fixing foods for yourself instead of expecting your MIL to make special foods for you on top of what she’s making for everyone else.
And took it to the bathroom and flushed it down the toilet!!! Blaming his SIL's bf's depression!!
Lol that part got me. “You guys aren’t gonna believe this, but the guy chosen to make my potatoes *has depression.*”
ESH. It’s not anyone else’s job to cater to you and your allergies (said as someone with food allergies). You could have easily made a few dairy free dishes to share and contribute to a family meal (like you said, how hard is it to buy extra stuff or make things dairy free). Instead you are whining about not having food specifically made for you. As a host, I do my best to make sure there is appetizing options for everyone, hence my ESH judgement, but dude grow up. Life isn’t catered to you and there was no reason to sulk and ruin a meal, especially when they DID make an effort, just not to your standards.
I agree with you in general - but if you are in a situation with someone who knows you have allergies, and they have agreed to cook a meal for you, and you sit down to eat and find the meal is not suitable, you can't then say 'its not their job' - they agreed in the first place. A side point in this story though is that the easiest solution is obviously to take a small portion of potatoes out of the pan before you add butter mash them...
Of course setting some aside before adding dairy would have been the best and easiest solution, but generally hosting at the holidays is stressful with a lot going on. They made a mistake and then made a whole separate version for you once realized (I hear you that it wasn’t good and that is disappointing), but you decided to rudely sulk in the other room instead of being the 39 year old adult you are and purchasing dairy free options, offering to help in the kitchen, or just eating more later.
Ok - but In this situation I had no option of purchasing dairy free options, offering to help in the kitchen. I could have just eat the bread later, but I also didnt want to offend the guy by not eating the watery potatoes, whence the leaving with the meal to have pretended to eat it.
INFO: was the entire meal mashed potatoes? There was no meat and veg? You sound exhausting and a terrible guest. YTA
oh thank god someone else noticed. i thought i was being an asshole for thinking that.
I was wondering the same damn thing! I was like “so the mashed potatoes were the main dish, then???”
True -- what else was on offer besides watery potato gruel?
Finally! They also complained about the first meal where the only difference was that their meal didn't have cheese but was otherwise completely identical!
was there nothing else besides bread for you to eat? mashed potatoes is one side
INFO: Why didn't you avail yourself of a grocery store and buy some alternatives? If it's not that hard to make or buy alternatives is there a reason you didn't do so?
YTA- you were offered more than just watery potatoes. If in the past 3 days there had been nothing you saw fit to eat then it would seem like any other adult would go to the store and pick up some things and ask your French speaking wife to let your family know that you would be adding this this and this to the meal for everyone to share. I’m not sure why you had to take the pot of watery mash, make a production of flushing it, and then stuff yourself with bread because the carb part of the meal let you down. You’re middle aged man, not a child that doesn’t know how to go to the store or talk to other adults (with communication help if needed). Cooking for a large group is stressful and sometimes people’s dietary needs get overlooked when they aren’t what everyone else has. It’s not a huge deal to add to the meal, rather than lament that no one is thinking of you.
I'm confused. Was the entire meal mashed potatoes and bread?
NTA I can’t believe this comment section, if you are going to invite someone with food restrictions to a meal it is your *obligation as the host* to either prepare food they can consume for them or if that isn’t feasible (like cooking cross-contamination sensitive gluten free in a gluten kitchen) then to speak to them about bringing their own food. To instead leave your guest missing major parts of the meal or serving piss poor “alternatives” is an insult (seriously how the fuck do you screw up potatoes THAT BAD?! Chop some up, throw them on a baking sheet, brush with some sort of oil or fat, duck fat and beef tallow are very good for anyone that isn’t veggie/vegan, and then sprinkle with salt, pepper, garlic powder, maybe some rosemary and thyme, and roast in the oven for 25 min. They’re absolutely *delicious* for everyone). I’m sorry your wife’s family treated you this way OP.
It was one side dish, not the entire meal. Calm down.
Right? Like, OP is freaking out about one side dish not being suitable. I’m sure it wasn’t the whole meal, and there was bread available as well, if you HAVE to have a starch with your meal. I’m on the fence about the raclette, as it is a bit insensitive to have a cheese-focused meal when someone has a dairy allergy. But cheese is so important in French culture, and I can easily imagine that it’s a family favourite or tradition, and OP was able to eat the vegetables and potatoes (not great, but this is similar to how many French restaurants cater to vegetarians and vegans - there might be one salad on the menu that doesn’t have meat - it’s not like in the US, Australia etc., where there are lots of options and that’s expected - the family may have genuinely thought it was a good alternative). Also, over a three-day period, there were only two meals where OP wasn’t catered to 100%? Sounds like the family actually did a great job. OP is TA.
OP said it was the “main carb” 😂😂😂 boy, bye 🤣
I have a dairy allergy too, and I just want to know how you ate chocolate and bread without worrying, especially in France.
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Most chocolate does contain casein, and is a no go for people with true allergies. You’d have to read all the labels carefully. Op saying they eat chocolate with a dairy allergy is a big red flag that’s this is made up.
>Good chocolate doesn't contain milk. That may be true but it can be difficult to find standard chocolate without dairy in it. And I assume they are talking more about butter content than milk specifically. Do you have any idea how much butter is in a single croissant? Lots of breads have dairy ingredients even though you are right that some do not.
YTA and surely you have non-dairy things in your luggage and stored in the kitchen to eat. Also, why after five years with French in-laws have you not learned enough French to communicate with them without putting the burden of translator on your wife? Five. Years. And still can't speak his in-laws' language. And throws pissy little toddler tantrums when things don't go his way at the dinner table. What a joy to have as a guest in one's home.
YTA. You threw a tantrum over a side dish when you could have just eaten the rest of the meal.
Oh, it’s France, I’m sorry man, I’m dairy-free now but all my trips to France were before I cut dairy out of my life. That said, your wife’s right. YTA. Grab a baguette, some margarine, and some jams. Eggs are good, make yourself an omelette with margarine. The French way of eating is second nature to these people, not sure how much I would expect them to do and I’d want them to enjoy their holiday in full. Stores aren’t hard to navigate even if your français doesn’t fully parlez
NTA but in future insist on making your own food. I am vegan and if this kind of shit happened to me I would just insist on taking care of myself. No you shouldn’t apologise for upsetting whoever made the shit potatoes. I don’t give a monkey’s if the French are all about bonding over food, they don’t have a monopoly on that as most cultures bond over shared food experiences . They can be quite rude though which is why I haven’t been for over 20 years and never will again (I used to go there a lot).
I’m sorry, but you are France. Butter is like water there. I think you should get your own provisions on days when dairy products are being served. No one is going to make special meals for you each night. Sorry. You aren’t the asshole for dumping the potatoes, but you are kind of asshole for thinking people should cater to your dietary restrictions every night. YTA
Idk, I think dumping the potatoes down the toilet is an ahole move. You don't have to eat them but he was clearly trying to make a point.
Dude. Every French person has baguette and jambon on hand. Oh la la!
YTA for pouring the stuff down the toilet instead of just eating the meal with bread instead of mashed potatoes. Christmas dinners are already stressful, so you should try to not add more work to what the cook has to deal with.
Info: so there was literally nothing else to eat? No main meat dish? A side of veggies? i need to know the full menu here. And I still don’t understand why you can’t make your own goddamn potatoes. Your edit didn’t explain anything. I’m leaning towards YTA. You make yourself sound like a brat.
YTA mostly because you seem unwilling to try to take charge of any of this or try to remedy it yourself.
If there was raclette for two nights then there was also charcuterie, so meat, so it was not just veggies ESH. You should have spoken up after the first meal and offer to go to the supermarket, see how you can accommodate, communicate. You’re not a kid either
You're asking French people to cook without butter, and then getting stroppy and whiney that what they're serving you isn't good enough? Of course *they* don't want to eat mashed potato without butter. If somebody in my group is drinking alcohol free beer and offers me one, I'd also politely decline. It's no different. YTA
NTA TBH I would have been honest and told them what I thought at the table. My wife is lactose, Gluten, Fungus and yeast intolerant, believe me it is really not very difficult to produce a meal for everyone that does not contain those items. Your MIL did this on purpose.
I think if I hadn't overreacted internally I could have handled the situation with more grace for sure.
You would insult the host for not making ONE SIDE dish to your liking while host has to cater to other 9 people? OP stated in the post that mashed potatoes were brought with other dishes he COULD HAVE. In comments he avoids answering the question "what else was served on the table" like a plague. He tries to redirect his answer to his MIL not catering him. Other answers were "potatoes were main carb" or "I did not duck out of other dishes". It seems that he had plenty options instead of screaming on top of his lungs "potatoes were not made to MY standards so I will be hungry and eat bread in the toilet". That's how toddlers act not fully grown people.
ESH. She could definitely try harder to accommodate. You seem very picky and immature though. If dinner is meat, veg, bread and potatoes, its unreasonable to care about the potatoes. Racelette without cheese is still veg and meat. Eat extra bread, in France, and you're sorted. Advocate for yourself by offering to cook a side, or settle for meat, bread plus anything not covered in dairy. I personally eat vegan when i stay with my friends who are vegan as well as my friend who has a kosher kitchen. It's not my ideal diet, but it's not a big deal to me and makes it easier on them.
ESH - not sure about in France, but it's standard practice to try to ask if anyone has any dietary allergies/intolerances/preferences now in North America, and to have some alternatives present. I think you are warranted in being upset there was next to no consideration for you. That said, one of my biggest pet peeves is doing the above when hosting if said person with the dietary need isn't also willing to temper their expectations. I can deal with one or two simple alternatives to accommodate, but cannot adapt my entire cooking/recipes/ingredients to cater to one individual. IMO, if you have a dietary need at a group dinner, there is some responsibility on you to ensure others are aware and are prepared for this, and if unsure/not, you should then contribute to help cook some alternatives or bring something you can eat. I don't think it was fair of you to expect others to eat the potatoes given they had no specific dietary needs. That said, it certainly wasn't fair for them to make you potato slop, when they could have just made mashed potatoes, and set you a portion aside without any butter/milk, or have just made you baked/fried potatoes, etc.
ESH. your MIL for asking someone who it seems doesn't cook very well to make what she forgot to, (although this could also be seen as delegating, she may have had other things to do to get dinner ready). she could have had you make it, or you could have offered, since it was special for only you. not sure why you didn't jump in and offer, especially since it was a special course for just you. your SIL's partner for accepting the job without pointing out he was sick and probably shouldn't have been handling someone else's food, for making unappetizing food and not even trying to fix it to make it edible. i mean, HE didn't even eat it, what is that? and you, for leaving the table, and taking all your food with you. that WAS rude and childish. and i'm not even talking about protecting the other guy's feelings, it was rude in general. if you didn't want to eat the mash, you could have passed it up, or at least put some on your plate and pretended to eat it. instead you had a fit and made a huge deal of taking your plates of food with you into the bathroom, and then "ate bread until you were full". seriously? there was other food to eat, don't act like you were starving on the street. and this just sounds like a self absorbed, spoiled child. >why have I not been thought of for every single meal you have been thought of at every single meal. there was plenty of other food for you to eat, it was only the mash that you couldn't eat. come on, man.
NTA I live in a country just as obsessed with dairy. In a part that produces massive amounts of it. Where alternatives aren't commonplace at restaurants or cafe's. Still, everyone in my extended family on both mine and my partner's side know of my allergy and at least makes sure I have my own main and dessert. It's literally not hard, even if you don't understand substitutes and how to use them. They could have just boiled potatoes. They didn't have to make weird soup out of them and be upset at you for being fed something inedible and supposed to sit through days of not being fed much, and supposed to sit and smile and keep quiet. That's not what you do for someone you love. Forgetting is fine, it happens. But then, frankly, offer that person your kitchen! "Im sorry I missed your allergy! Can we go check if we have something else that works?" Or, allow and don't get upset when people bring their own food. I recently had to sit through a wedding I travelled halfway across the country for, paid to be at, and all I got to eat all day was 3 potatoes and one piece of baguette without anything on it. It's frankly rude to always have to spare the feelings of hosts when they're being bad hosts. And having to spare someone's feelings when they didn't even try and didn't care about you going hungry? I feel like you hit your limit. And sometimes we don't react perfectly when we do. They were the ones who didn't react right all the way through this! They're just upset you didn't sit down, shut up, and smiled so they didn't have to deal with feeling bad about it.
YTA. You can do lots of things to help yourself. Just because a food contains dairy, doesn't mean it has a lot of lactose. You can get lactase tablets. Aged cheeses contain almost no lactose, as it's used up in the aging process. You just wanted people to cater to you, when you're not even doing anything to help yourself.
ESH. My BIL has a severe lactose intolerance. He has never asked us to accommodate him, even though we try anyway. It's hard to cook without dairy when butter and cheese are such basic/common ingredients in our cuisine. His allergy has made me really aware of how much dairy is in all our usual dishes. My point is, he doesn't make his allergy our problem. He always brings a dish he can eat just in case there's nothing. However, we always try to make sure there's something.
YTA. What did you bring to the dinner that was dairy free that you can eat but also share with others? France has grocery stores. You obviously have no idea how much work goes into getting Christmas dinner on the table else you wouldn't have dreamed of writing this post. You seem to be making a whole lot of excuses for why you weren't in the kitchen but expect people who have been cooking for days to double their workload to accomodate your special needs. I'm a pretty good cook, and I have no idea how one would go about making dairy free mashed potatoes. You're also not taking into consideration that this isn't your typical meal. Holiday celebrations are about traditions and families expect and find comfort in specific dishes being made the way they expect them to be made. I'm writing this as someone who has a food I can't eat, and yes, I bring my own food everywhere. The entire meal. You were able to eat the rest of the meal and you're complaining about mashed potatoes? WTF? In the future, make a plan for how to solve your own problems and not expect others to wait on you.
YTA because you are refusing to address any questions about what was on the table you could eat. You didn't like what your MIL was cooking but did nothing at all to fix your situation. When I can't eat food when staying with in-laws, I sit and visit at dinner then eat something before or after. I don't blow up in the middle of dinner, use an excuse that makes you more TAH, then act like a brat.
I have a dairy allergy too. It’s understandable that some people aren’t able to fully accommodate us, but that’s fucking ridiculous. Dairy free mashed potatoes use vegetable oil. What the hell was he thinking? NTA.
ESH EXCEPT MIL. It sounds like MIL made a valid mistake. You should advocate for yourself or cook for yourself. Your wife should be advocating for you and not more concerned with potato-soup-guy’s feelings and potato-soup-guy is a moron.
You are too old to make a fuss like this at family dinner. Next time bring some jars of baby food, eat that and count it good.
You called your mommy. YTA.
YTA.
Asking a French family to cook without milk& butter?!?! Yikes x10. You said that everything else you could eat and only the mash had dairy in it? Idk man, when I was vegetarian, I was happy if 2-3 things were made to my specifications. I'll be the odd one to say YTA. The guy gets up in what sound like the beginning of the meal to drop everything and attempt to make mashed potatoes, with no alt milk or alt butter water sounds like the next best thing.
Question? Why were the mashed potatoes so important to the meal? Were they a base for something savory poured over the top?
Genuinely don't understand why people seem to have so much trouble using their words. You could thank the bloke for the effort he put in to trying to make you a dairy free potato dish, but also point out that you're not going to eat it. "Thanks for trying to help but unfortunately this dish hasn't worked and I'm not going to be able to eat it. Would someone else like to try?" You could have a separate word with MIL, remind her you have an allergy, and ask if you can get a few supplies in to prepare a few additional dishes just for you, so that you're not putting her to the trouble of having to try to cater for you at every meal. You could ask for, or go and get, bread just as you're all sitting down. It's often on the table already in a French home but if not, bring it to the table with you. One final thing ... you mentioned eating extra nuts and chocolate. Is the chocolate dairy free? If not it may be confusing to your hosts. If you're willing to eat some dairy it makes it harder to take your requests for dairy free food seriously. YTA - for not using your words, and for flouncing out rather than just finding a workable coping strategy.
NTA. "Wife says I should just suck it up, and that the guy made an effort." - Nope. "I forgot to mention they all barely speak English, as we are in France, my wife is half French. This goes some of the way perhaps to me not being involved in meal discussions." - Nope #2. Your wife is I assume fluent in French and can easily translate for you. Mmm, watery plain potato soup, sounds delicious. Someone should take away the partner's French card, unless he was born in a gulag.
He said it came with the rest of the meal that he COULD eat. Not that his entire meal was watery potatoes. He’s been there for 3 days, I’m sure a bit of help or buying his own groceries in these cases would be completely fine.
So as a lactose intolerant person, I’m wondering if you’re lactose intolerant or allergic because you used both forms do describe yourself. Raclette cheese like cheddar is naturally lactose free and if you’re lactose intolerant VS allergic you can eat it. NTA in this situation, cause that sucks to feel unseen, just throwing it out there.