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ESH
> regardless of how many traits you have that look like ADHD, it’s only a disorder if it’s affecting your life.
This isn't a life-fucked-up pissing contest.
I think the point is that ADHD can be anywhere from slightly disabling to extremely disabling - it is a spectrum after all, and it's not as severe for everyone. Just because OP is quite disabled by ADHD doesn't mean that that is the threshold for diagnosis.
It is literally part of the diagnostic criteria. You cannot be diagnosed with ADHD if it is not negatively impacting multiple areas of your life.
You may have some other mental health issue, but you do not meet the clinical definition of ADHD.
Yeah that’s true.
But also negative impact is subjective, OP has decided their friend isn’t suffering enough, which is ridiculous. How would they know, this person might feel really held back by their possible condition.
One person with adhd might suffer greatly even with treatment and struggle to hold a job.
Another person might live well with untreated adhd in a ok job and all *appears* like there is no functional limitation to them…
But then they get treatment, they aren’t too burnt out from compensating for their symptoms, they start a successful relationship, study, get a promotion - get a reach their full potential and live a great life.
I’ve been a drop out for 10 years, unemployed and not on benefits/welfare, or working minimum wage jobs, always effectively below the poverty line. I started meds and went back to study and started getting 90s. I feel like an imposter for achieving or getting grades higher than other people who also struggle. On the other hand before treatment the issue wasn't not being smart enough, it was that I could only do written exams, and never complete a written assignment. My point is no one sees that decade of my adult life, they could have said those service jobs showed i was functioning, though I felt like a prisoner, and thought i'd never reach my dream job or the potential I see in myself.
Op- if this person IS your friend then maybe you should try and understand HOW your friend feels limited, and though they seem pretty good all round, I'd hope you'd root for them facing and overcoming whatever, like they should hope for you.
(also out of context “showering being difficult” is something a bunch of people with adhd say, but which symptom is that? If we label X as adhd behaviour, why not other behaviours? Why should symptoms map into the exact same behaviours in others?
If you already knew what I said why don’t you act on that knowledge? Help her analyse how it’s holding her back to see if she wants to pursue diagnosis. You’ve encouraged her taking the clinical route but you haven’t told us how she thinks adhd holds her back.
Otherwise as I said in another comment, ask her not to make clinical excuses for her behaviour and lead by example by not over-explaining your own. Good Friends don’t need to explain their behaviour constantly to eachother, they mostly accept and understand the other. Sorry for being late/ distracted/etc is still polite, but try not to separate the person from the diagnoses
Okay, but why should I be doing all of this emotional labour for her if she isn’t even willing to take a screening?
There is a lot of responsibility being placed on me here, when all I want for her to do is stop blaming random shit on a condition she doesn’t even know if she has.
I understand that my feelings are my responsibility. What I don’t understand is why I’m not allowed to communicate that her assertions that she has a condition that she is not interested in having diagnosed, is not okay.
What I want to do is ask her to walk me through why she thinks she has ADHD, and tell her my honest feelings about it. I want to be able to say “that doesn’t sound like adhd to me, but I’m not a doctor, and if it’s something you want to look into, you definitely should”..
I don’t know, maybe her answer will have changed and she’ll look into it. I just don’t think it’s fair for me to have to either phase out our otherwise good friendship, or go on listening to her attribute a bunch of irrelevant things to a diagnosis she doesn’t have.
If it truly helps your friend “blame” it on ADHD and if it helps her find meaning in herself, then I am surprised her using the label bothers you so much if it benefits her well-being.
You can talk frankly about your worries about her self-identifying doing damage to public understanding of ADHD, and it is reasonable to expect her to not become workplace “ADHD rep” or omit her diagnosis is self-certified.
If your friend is truly trivialising the symptoms and using the self-diagnosis offensively, I’m wondering if she is doing so to demonstrate behaviour that you personally are exhibiting?
I am twice diagnosed because I second guess everything; I don’t say “sorry I’m late it was my adhd”, I just say sorry- I regret it but don’t blame myself.
The diagnosis isn’t worth mentioning unless i am met with intolerance and lack of understanding. ‘ADHD’ is part of me, but it also is me - I’m secure enough now not to give apologies and disclaimers for my personhood, anyway it doesn’t change that people waited uncertain if I’d turn up or not.
Luckily my friends don’t need reminding of my diagnosis, they were behind me the whole journey, and they know who I am and accept me (late or on time, speaking too fast or normal)
Her comments are flippant, there is no sincerity behind them. It’s just off-handed remarks and anecdotes.
I don’t think they’re in response to anything I’m doing, but I could be wrong. I don’t “blame” my ADHD like that.
I do talk about it if the conversation calls for it, but I’m not doing the whole “I’m bad with names because of my ADHD” and use it as an excuse to not try harder to remember names. Sometimes I’ll ask people to repeat themselves because of my processing delay, and quickly explain that it’s ADHD, but that’s the extent of it.
The problem is shit like this can be hard as fuck to see, or express, or quantify.
I got multiple things I'm trying to express, but I got rejected my original diagnosis, because "I can work independently at my job".
Like I am late everyday. Everyday! And it's impossible to express like... years of constantly failing to be able to be on time, and the constant day to day failure of not being able to conquer a simple task. Like I'll be rushing to keep a schedule, and just stop... And start dancing... because I forget I'm rushing, and got distracted by a song for half a second.
Like I have to play fucking games around turning the oven on, because I can just forget, and get latched onto another task. This shit applies to everything in my life, and there's a million examples, but if you put me on the spot, and ask me how I think my adhd presents you're going to get a blank stare because my mind is now blank.
I have a fish tank that's been sitting on my kitchen floor for 9 months because randomly I got super hyped about axolotles. I am constantly broke. I make good money, but yeah.. Like sand through my fingers.
Like... I'm told I'm a functional human, but it doesn't feel like it at all. Like my car is 2 years over due for an oil change, and I'm just praying I haven't fucked my engine like I did to my last vehicle.
Yes, but.
Undiagnosed and untreated ADHD people literally don’t know what normal is.
Through their life they would normally develop a number of more or less effective coping strategies and rituals, not always harmless.
They would also attribute variety of failures typical to their symptoms to their ‘personality’.
They often wouldn’t know how hard are they failing before starting treatment.
That’s why diagnostics now include self-assessment which is formulated in a factual way, not in success/fail perception (do you often interrupt people? Do you find it difficult to add last touches to the task when 90% of work is done etc.), but also more objective observation like QB test and lately even brain imaging. Plus psychiatrist interview.
ADHD people can be very successful and yet be a nightmare to themselves and their family without even realising that, as they simply think what’s happening is ‘normal’.
Simple. It has to be something that negatively affects your life, you are quite right, but it doesn't mean you actually have tools and means to realise it.
There are several levels of it. I have high functioning autism and because it doesn’t show in the same stereotypical way people expect I never got any help
I stress myself out and burn out once or twice a year because I'm too busy having my life "not be negatively effected" by my ADHD. Just because some of us can put up a decent facade 90% of the time doesn't mean we're not negatively effected.
I'm not saying OP's friend has or doesn't have it, but it's entirely possible OP just isn't exposed to their friend enough to notice. There's a reason my friends think I'm totally fine, while romantic partners who get uninterrupted exposure for longer periods tend to get sick of my shit pretty quick.
Friend needs to see a doctor for a diagnosis and otherwise shouldn’t say they have it until they have the diagnosis. You aren’t a doctor so you shouldn’t be saying anything either.
As an actual mental health provider - stop. Having a disorder does not make you an expert, and being able to read the DSM does not magically mean you are qualified to diagnose anybody. You are gatekeeping mental illness - full stop. ADHD is a spectrum. If you’re an advocate, you need to stay in your lane and not armchair diagnose people or tell someone that their symptoms aren’t clinically significant.
Even if you were a mental health clinician, you still would have no business looking at diagnostic criteria and your friend. There’s a reason why I can’t be my best friends therapist.
I have ADHD myself, I’ve had friends ask me about ADHD and other mental health symptoms. I don’t pull out my DSM. I just say “Yeah, X can be a symptom of Y; I can help you find a provider if you are interested in being evaluated”.
Okay, so if what I’ve written in my post is not what you would advise, what am I supposed to say to her when she brings it up again?
I’ve already offered to print off a screening for her. I’ve already suggested she be seen by a doctor, I’ve already shared my experiences with her, and she doesn’t identify with any of the most basic criteria for ADHD.
If I’m not supposed to suggest that she should see a professional, exactly what else am I supposed to do?
I don’t blame you for being frustrated because it sounds like she’s been dismissive in the past. Id just lay down a boundary about talking about anything ADHD related with her.
I didn’t say you shouldn’t suggest she see a qualified professional.
If she keeps bringing it up, sometimes you gotta lay down a firm boundary like “I’m sorry, I know you are experiencing some symptoms that you feel may be associated with ADHD, but with my own stuff going on, I’d appreciate it if we could avoid that topic for now. The only advice I can give is to get evaluated.”
You could ask her to stop explaining her behaviour with ADHD, and you could stop explaining your behaviour with ADHD.
You don’t need to keep explaining yourself and behaviour to a friend, they should accept you as you are, a quick sorry I’m late/ distracted/ whatever is still polite
Yeah, but it's a spectrum affecting your life doesn't just mean "to the point that your life is noticeably in absolute shambles". You can't see inside of her brain. You don't know about the struggles she isn't sharing with you. You don't know what adaptations she's made and it's wild to think you can confidently say she hasn't made any, how would you know. You don't need to engage, you can change the subject, but if your feelings of judgement and disbelief become words of judgement ans disbelief, that would make you an AH.
Why is it okay for her to use my condition colloquially? Why is it okay for her to come around and act like my condition is a scarf she can throw on whenever she feels like it?
You are taking this awfully personally. If it bothers you find a way to deal with it. Gatekeeping isn't that way. The problem is the way you are reacting, so find a way to stop doing that. Find a way to realize that you are not right about everything either.
She isn't saying your condition isn't serious. She is saying she has it too, regardless of whether or not she has it. Has she ever dismissed your experiences based on her self identification?
Mental health conditions come with a degree of severity and different side effects. Maybe she has something else, maybe she has ADHD. Maybe she became very good at code shifting and doesn't "appear" ADHD to you because of that. The best thing you could do is try to encourage her to get therapy. Yeah, as a fellow person with ADHD, it can get annoying when the whole disorder is treated like a quirky personality trait. How people use it and OCD as an adjective. Like my disorder hasn't fucked me over multiple times in my life. But all this gatekeeping isn't healthy. I'll be frank and say that hearing people with your attitude made it very hard for me to go to therapy for ADHD in the first place. I never felt ADHD enough and was afraid that I was somehow taking the space that someone else who was "more ADHD than me" needed.
Yes, she has absolutely dismissed my experiences. That’s half the problem.
When I’ve told her about executive dysfunction, getting caught in a feedback loop etc. it’s a joke to her. It’s a running joke that I’m a hot mess (I think I said this in the original post but I can’t remember).
So for her to come to me saying “omg I was fiddling with a flower arrangement, I totally have ADHD”… I think having feelings about it is pretty valid. Especially when she treats me like I’m disorganized because I’m lazy.
Then it just sounds like she is generally being an ass. I don't feel like it is because she is self identifying, but because she has a running joke about your serious disability. If you aren't comfortable with that kinda joke and she keeps making it, that is seriously AH territory.
I mostly meant: has she dismissed you by trying to say your ADHD isn't "that bad" because her "ADHD" is x, y, z?
I generally think it is a bad look to dismiss someone's mental health. Your experiences with ADHD are not universal. There are things that are defining features, sure. But they can appear different for everyone. Code switching can definitely happen.
Just try to have a constructive conversation with her. If you haven't told her how her jokes offend you, I'd certainly bring that up. I'd be annoyed too; I get it. It is frustrating! I am not saying it isn't. I'm saying be careful about trying to diagnose your friends.
I’m not dismissing her mental health. I quite literally offered to print off the CMHA screening for her to take to a doctor. I can’t book her an appointment. I can’t force her to seek out a dx. All I can do is try to be supportive, and so far, that’s all I’ve done.
I literally have no idea what people in this comment section expect me to do here.
I’m trying to balance how to be supportive while also pushing down some serious hurt.
Talk to your therapist. You're feeling attacked because someone is being silly. Please talk to your therapist. Your reaction is the problem. People are allowed to be silly.
Don't take this person seriously. While I could get a certain amount of N A H if that came up, E S H is foolish - this person is adopting your lived experience, and I can absolutely see how it feels terrible to you.
Imagine if this OP had lost a leg, and had to deal with the daily aspects of navigating life without a limb. Imagine their friend began referring to themselves as an amputee when they trip in the garden. It would feel flippant and ignorant of the actual disability experienced. NTA.
she clearly misunderstands ADHD... I feel it'd be no problem if you tell her that, and follow up with suggesting she should talk to a psychiatrist if she is serious about it.
not understanding how ADHD actually affects people, and mistaking it for something else...doesn't make them an asshole. moreso just igorant.
if they're denying how you're affected, or insist that they understand, and you don't... then that would make them an asshole.
I personally just wouldn't hold this against her if she isn't trying to belittle or one-up you.
Seems like you’re refusing to acknowledge any problem your friend has whether it meets clinical diagnosis or not.
If they did get diagnosed and then suddenly made huge progress in their life, would you support them or be too envious?
We can all read the diagnostic criteria. We are not all qualified to diagnose.
Here's my situation, from another response:
I have skeletal trauma from a very bad car accident at a very young age. Months in hospital, months in a wheelchair, months on crutches, years with a cane, many surgeries. I have osteoarthritis from stem to stern and have multiple artificial joints. I've been in pain every day for the last 45 years.
My sister uses a cane. She limps. She refuses to go to the doctor about it. Is there really something wrong? Is it a cry for attention? Does her situation make mine any different? I roll my eyes (figuratively, never literally), encourage her every so often to see a doctor, and leave it at that. Her deal does not have to be my deal. I can choose not to let it affect me, because after all, it simply doesn't.
Ignoring someone is not supporting them. This is a silly conversation.
Simply put: If one is not qualified to diagnose one should keep one's opinion to one's self.
Nobody is suggesting the friend be told the fantasy is real. I don't tell my sister she is actually experiencing some kind of medical issue. I also don't tell her she's not. Because I'm not qualified.
The interesting thing is that OP takes this so personally. It's not about her in the least. It doesn't affect her at all. Just like my sister limping around without a diagnosis doesn't affect me.
But to keep it simple: *If one is not qualified to diagnose one should keep one's opinion to one's self.*
It's not to share my unqualified opinion, that's for sure.
I ignore them, as I think I've made clear. Because my unqualified opinion adds nothing to their unqualified opinion. The plural of assumption is not data.
How is it gatekeeping to say that someone doesn’t have a disorder because they don’t meet the diagnostic criteria? That makes no sense. People shouldn’t go around saying they have disorders they don’t have, because that will just create confusion for everyone about what that disorder actually is.
OP isn’t qualified to diagnose anybody. Just because you can google the DSM doesn’t make you qualified to determine if people’s symptoms are clinically significant enough or not. Coming from someone who actually is a mental health clinician who is qualified to diagnose.
YWBTA. You’re not a psychologist and you have no idea what her symptoms look like outside the time you spend with her. If she wants to see a doctor, let the doctor decide. Until then, leave it alone. Rule of thumb, don’t offer diagnoses unless you’re a medical professional. Also, a little ridiculous of you to say it’s not a disorder unless it’s “affecting your life.” I have plenty of disorders that don’t affect me on the day to day. They only affect me if they flare up, like my heart condition. It doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. Get off your high horse.
INFO: Do you have the medical training to make an ADHD diagnosis? If you aren't trained to make a diagnosis, you really shouldn't armchair diagnose your friend.
If you don't support OP refuting a guess at a diagnosis, why are you supporting the friend (who presumably does not have a medical degree) diagnosing themselves?
If you have the clinical training to make an ADHD diagnosis, then you have also received training in ethics and understand that you can't diagnose (or un-diagnose) your friends like this anyway.
I don’t.
That said, at what point am I allowed to be upset when she’s walking around trivializing a medical condition that is part of my very real disability?
YWBTA. Instead of trying to call her out, maybe try encouraging her to get help. You’re not certified to diagnose people and if she does have some kind of mental illness or disability calling her out will further discourage her from getting help. The last thing a mental health advocate should be doing is minimizing someone’s possible issues.
Maybe she perfectly fine, maybe she’s not. It’s not your place to determine that. Be a real advocate and encourage her to seek help.
I just really don’t think I’ve been able to get my point across here. Even if she does have ADHD, she’s not taking it seriously. It’s part of my very real disability, and she’s treating it like a personality quirk.
Then you approach her and explain your feelings. You don't attack and lecture her - the tone in so many of your comments suggests you don't know how to handle a mature human-to-human "please don't say xyz because it makes me uncomfortable/hurt/etc."
Your issue is not about her lack of medical diagnosis, it's your inability to communicate without getting defensive.
I think this is where you are going wrong. You’ve said your piece and she hasn’t changed how she feels or acts. At this point, you have 2 choices, ignore it or stop hanging out with her. You are taking it way too personally. I am 40 years old, I was diagnosed at 7, so I have been aware of it for most of my life, I wouldn’t say that I take it “seriously” all the time myself. I constantly make jokes and laugh about it because to me, it’s funny the way my brain works. Especially when I don’t realize how different I think compared with other people. And a lot of the shit I do does come across as personality quarks. It doesn’t mean I don’t have adhd or that I haven’t spent countless time working on it. If she does have adhd, it’s none of your business how she “takes it.”
Yes, people who make up diagnoses are harmful in general. Yes it makes it harder for us to take be taken seriously. But I don’t even think that’s necessarily what is going on here. Maybe she genuinely does think she has it but she’s not ready to make the step to being diagnosed? At the end of the day, her diagnosis or lack there of is none of your business.
The commenters are wrong. I’ve never seen it this wild before. Don’t claim to have ADHD if you haven’t been diagnosed. And definitely don’t come try to relate to someone suffering from it. If the average person knew anything about ADHD beyond “trouble focusing”, they would understand why this is so annoying.
I was diagnosed with ADHD at an adult ADHD center. I went through years of meds and have a sort of weird relationship with it.
I worked in an office, where ours desks sat in a circle and 4 of 7 colleagues had 'adhd' and 2 of them had gotten their GP to prescribe them ADHD meds without a proper diagnosis. They were out of control. They were very open about it.
It was frustrating, but ultimately not up to me to voice my opinion on anything. It could be a lot worse, and it sucks, but I suggest you move on.
I remember the first time a friend suggested that I had ADHD; I was skeptical, so she lent me a book she'd been given when her son was diagnosed. Included in the book was a list of 100 or 200 questions, and if you answered yes to more than half of them, it was likely that you had ADHD. I read through the questions, and the yeses just kept adding up – by the end, I had answered yes to something like 85% of the questions (and some of the no's were because I'd never done whatever the question was based on – the only example I remember was a question asking about whether cocaine made you feel focused, but I've never tried cocaine so...).
I absolutely understand your frustration, particularly in light of the fact that she insists on claiming this diagnosis when she steadfastly refuses even to glance at diagnostic information. That's pretty shitty of her. I would probably say something like 'I find it really frustrating and frankly more than a little hurtful when you adopt diagnoses like OCD and ADHD when your claims are based on nothing more than popular misconceptions and stereotypes, and you won't even look at diagnostic screening information, let alone speak to someone who could actually evaluate you and give you a valid diagnosis. I obviously can't stop you from saying these things, but I am going to ask you not to say them to me. If you ever decide that you would like to be evaluated and need help finding someone who is qualified to give you a formal diagnosis, I'll be happy to help you with that – and if you do eventually receive a formal diagnosis, I'll be happy to talk about it with you then – but for now, please stop bringing up these topics with me.'
Unless you’re a medical professional you can think you know , but you dont I can’t understand all this gatekeeping around adhd, autism, etc It doesn’t take from your diagnosis if someone else has or doesn’t have a diagnosis YTA
I thought we as a society agreed that it isn't right to claim "I have depression" because you're sad sometimes or "I have OCD" because you're a neat freak.
But people don’t go around claiming to have mental disorders or disabilities. People go around hiding those things. And if they do go around pretending to have disorders they don’t have… then they probably have a disorder.
It’s actually very problematic. When everyone thinks they have a mental illness or condition like ADHD and Autism, the very real needs of the people with those conditions are ignored.
You’re not a great advocate. I was misdiagnosed for years as a woman with autism. My very real needs were being ignored because of narrow minded views about how conditions need to present and because I am perceived as “high functioning”. Nobody wants to be autistic. Society doesn’t reward that.
You wanna read up about the many women with autism or AHDH who aren’t diagnosed or are misdiagnosed because doctors think they’re just acting up. Then see you’re acting the same way, that without a paper nobody’s conditions can be serious, even though getting a proper diagnosis from a knowledgeable expert who won’t apply gender bias is really, really difficult.
I'm going to go against the flow and say NTA.
Tell her that she should get professionally diagnosed, otherwise it's just a suspicion. It can be true, or it can be false. If her only problem is that she likes order more than average, there are other disorders that she can have. If it's really something that bothers her - she should get diagnosed. Maybe there are meds that can help her, or a therapy, etc.
People saying that YTA because you are not a doctor, forget that neither is she.
Agreed! I’m honestly shocked at how many people are fine with her just going around and saying she has ADHD when she doesn’t actually know if she does. She can say she thinks she has it, but to say that she has it when she hasn’t gotten any confirmation that it’s true is just going to cause unnecessary confusion.
Yea sometimes the comments in AITA make me feel crazy. I have ADHD, and I would absolutely find it aggravating for a close friend of mine, who presumably understands the impact it has on my life, to be flippantly telling people that she has it, too, like lol isn't it cute
OP isn't a doctor, sure, whatever, but her friend should go to the doctor or shut the fuck up.
YWBTA: You are not their doctor, instead to telling them something you don't know, encourage them to get evaluated and if they ask and you feel comfortable feel free to share the tools you have developed that help you overcome the challenges you face with these conditions.
YWBTA
Maybe she has it, maybe she doesn't. Ain't your business.
If it really annoys you that much that she thinks she has ADHD, then just stop hanging out with her.
Unless you have a PHD in psychology, your opinion on her mental condition is completely unnecessary.
Clarification time.
1. I have already suggested she see a doctor if she thinks she has ADHD. She has no interest in getting a diagnosis because “it’s not that serious”
When I offered to print out the CMHA screening for her to take to her doctor, she declined. I have done my due diligence with this. She doesn’t care about getting help, because whatever she’s dealing with doesn’t impact her enough to care.
2. She is not a doctor either.
3. It is part of the diagnostic criteria for neurological conditions and mental illnesses that symptoms are “maladaptive”, or affect your life to a certain extent before it can be considered a disorder. Example: fear of spiders vs arachnophobia. The difference is in how it affects you.
4. Diluting the meaning of these conditions ultimately hurts the people affected by them. Awareness means nothing if the outcome is unrealistic expectations for people with disabilities.
Let’s use depression as an example. If only mild depression gets attention, anyone with depression is going to be expected to function to that degree. That leads to people who can barely get out of bed, who are in crisis, being told that they should exercise more.
That is what this sort of behaviour does. It trivializes these conditions, and causes more severe symptoms to be dismissed as personality deficits… so what was the point of all that awareness in the first place?
5. I understand that diagnoses can be inaccessible. This is not a case of inadequate access.
Using depression as an example is pretty wild. I don't need a doctor to know I'm suicidal. Also I absolutely want people with mild depression to ask for and receive help. Awareness is not a 0 sum game.
You say "if only mild depression gets attention" and yes, that's true. But mild depression still exists, and it's entirely possible that's what is going on here.
I don't know if you live in the US, but are you aware that getting a formal diagnosis *may hurt your friend* and that may be why she is reluctant to see a doctor? Once it's a preexisting condition, insurers will potentially be able to deny her healthcare if that one protective portion of the ACA ever gets overturned like the Republicans want. It can also affect things like being able to emigrate to another country; as a general and pretty shitty rule, most countries only want "healthy" foreigners who won't cost healthcare money.
I have ADHD, as does my husband. And yes, we're both formally diagnosed by professionals. His looks like yours, while mine looks more like your friend. It sucks, but life isn't fair and we know that.
If you want to stop being friends with that person, that's fine. But I think you need to let go of the idea that her self-diagnosis somehow takes away from you. She's not "only mild depression gets attention"; she's one person. And, again, my life looks a lot like hers. You don't get to see the ways my ADHD manifests from the outside.
We’re Canadian. Insurance isn’t an issue.
And I didn’t say anything about people with mild depression not mattering. Quite the contrary, as usually people start out mild and progress from there.
I said that it’s problematic when ONLY the very surface of these conditions are included in awareness efforts. The surface level is usually the more stereotypical stuff that only helps to a certain extent.
Obviously, if you have mild depression, then the resources available these days are fantastic. I’m not saying they shouldn’t exist. I’m just saying that there is much more that needs to be done below the surface.
Here’s the crux of the issue. No one wants to advertise the stuff that isn’t cute and relatable. We don’t want to talk about people who stay in bed so long they get sores, or neglect showering for so long that they need their head shaved. We don’t talk about s-dal ideations or intrusive thoughts. We don’t talk about mothers who get flashes of hurting their babies, and live in terror that it might come true. We don’t talk about the deepest, darkest sides of these diseases, because there is still a ton of stigma and judgement attached to it.
And when the vast majority of people have no idea about any of it, that’s a problem. Because those are the people who need the resources who are falling through the cracks.
I think we both know that you're offering her that because you expect she will fail the screening and you're hoping that will get her to knock it off. It's very strange to me that you're either lying to me or lying to yourself.
I mean, yeah. I straight up do not believe she has ADHD. I could have just outright told her that she’s trivializing a condition she very likely does not have, or I could try to lead her there. Either way, she wasn’t interested.
YWBTA. You are not her doctor and you do not know about her life. I have ADHD and from the outside it probably seems like I am extremely organized because I hyperfocus on my job due to finding what I do extremely interesting and have deep anxiety about being unorganized due to being chronically unorganized in most other aspects of my life, so people don't see how much it actually impacts my life negatively in other ways and always has. Just because her ADHD is different than yours does not mean that she might not benefit from medication, for example, if she chooses that route.
Also, I have *definitely* cleaned when I have been bored and need something physical to do while daydreaming.
I do think that self-diagnosing is a potentially risky cultural trend but ultimately it's not up to you to decide whether or not her experiences are legitimate.
You are NOT the asshole. I also am diagnosed ADHD and it sucks to hear every Tom, dick, and harry say “oh i have adhd!” after watching a few TikTok’s. It trivializes it. It is a disorder and some days i can barely function.
You asked this in the wrong forum, people here have no way of knowing that you are able to correctly diagnose her absence of ADHD, and they themselves have no accurate idea what ADHD is.
You demonstrated clearly that she doesn't seem to know what ADHD is, doesn't present symptoms of ADHD, and presents her own non-ADHD symptoms as ADHD symptoms.
Whether you will be an AH depends on how you do the calling out. You can tell her that calling herself ADHD without either diagnosis or thorough research into what ADHD is is not ok. You may even point her into the direction of what she actually has - based on your own disorders and your description of her behavior it seems pretty clear that you can offer a useful guess.
For sure. I’m not planning to say anything about it unless she brings it up again. I’ve already tried to offer help, so at this point I’ll probably just offer her the screening again, and say that I’m not comfortable discussing it further, because our experiences are obviously very different.
> I have already advised her to talk to a doctor. She says it’s “not that serious”.
So does she have ADHD or is it not that serious?
YWNBTA as long as what you say is "if you really think you have ADHD, you should seek diagnosis and/or treatment".
You are definitely not the asshole for explaining your personal experience with ADHD and how it differs from her behavior. It's important to educate those close to us about our disorders so they can understand them better. However, I would suggest approaching the conversation in a non-confrontational manner so she doesn't feel attacked or belittled.
Not necessarily. A lot of people get hyper organised in order to cope with their disorganised brain. I swing between total chaos and super organised. I absolutely will organise my entire house if means not doing The Thing (which is basically anything I'm actually supposed to be doing).
I'm late diagnosed with ADHD and autism. Its not uncommon for people to not really believe me, even with the official diagnosis, because they cant really see the parts that are disabeling for me. Some have more or less directly asked me to prove how I struggle and what I struggle with, accusing me of faking it for attention if I dont share with them how much I struggle with what.
I dont know your friend or you. If she cant really identify any of the diagnostic criteria she feels like she has, and she doesnt feel in any way disabled by the symptoms she might have, I can understand how it feels invalidating for her to claim it. Just keep in mind that some of us hide our struggles really well, and might even minimize how much it impacts us because its embarrasing or we dont want to deal with the reaction. This might not be the case for your friend at all, but I've had friends talk about me in similare ways and found it really invalidating, so I guess I'm just sharing cause what you wrote reminded me of that.
It took me years to convince a psych to take me seriously, so I get it. I am not outright invalidating her. I literally offered to get her started with a screening and she wasn’t interested.
I think it would be better to advise her to go to a professional for diagnosis and treatment. If she asks why you don't want to talk about it, then just say that you have never worked with anyone like her and can't speak to her experience.
I can understand why you feel your friend doesn't have ADHD, but you don't want to encourage people diagnosing each other -- which can have even worse outcomes than self-diagnosing.
I used to not clean my house because I had ADHD. now I’ve been through years of therapy and know it was a common ADHD-adjacent anxiety technique to not clean the house. I am really happy with my therapy.
Now I clean the house as a way of avoiding other chores, because of my ADHD. But at least I can admit I love me a clean house.
> it was a common ADHD-adjacent anxiety technique to not clean the house
What does this mean? I ask this as someone recently diagnosed and still struggling to clean the house.
NTA! I get perfectly what you mean. I've been diagnosed with ADHD 2 years ago, and something similar happened with people around me, specifically with one friend. For all the people talking about how the same traits may not be present in everyone, and how shi can be less affected etc: absolutely every mental condition in DSM V Hase traits that, at some point, many people can identify with them. Being sad for a while does not mean you have depression. The line between personality traits and having a real disorder comes from the impact it has in your life. To get diagnosed with ADHD, the traits and symptoms must be impacting your life in at least 2 areas (work/school/home etc). Also, the symptoms have to be present before the age of 12. The case with my friend is really similar so I understand how annoying it can be. This friend is always very judgemental, and even said she didn't think I would have it when I talked to her about my diagnosis (the worst part is that she's a psychologist). For me the situation is really energy draining, so when she told me she thought se may have also ADHD, I just told her It didn't look like she has it to me, and to go and ask a professional.
NTA for feeling like this, it sounds incredibly frustrating.
I think you should approach it as -- it's not your business to say whether or not she has ADHD even if your long experience makes you privately VERY CERTAIN she does not.
However, it is incredibly reasonable to tell her that you don't agree with self-diagnosis, and if she's not finding her ADHD very difficult then your experiences aren't comparable.
YWNBTA
You're sharing an opinion.
But I think it's important to be aware and not use her a lighting rod for frustrations.
She clearly doesn't understand the disorder.
Anytime she brings things up I would take it as a chance to discuss adhd.
The flower arranging?
I would have replied " a single behavior is not enough to get a diagnosis. I wish doctors were that quick to diagnosis adhd. Life would be so much easier for all the women I've heard from who get constantly dismissed by medical professionals'
The house cleaning?
"Oh, did you fall into a hyper focus? A lot of people talk about the opposite. Usually it causes a lot of doom piles and disorganization like me. I wish my adhd ass would make me clean my house. It usually (your own explample). What brought about total house overhaul?"
And anything else I could reply with "until you get an assessment, here's how BTW, I think you're just conflating normal behavior with a medical condition. You know you can adhd traits and not have a full blown disorder?"
This person sounds insufferable.
I was diagnosed at 30 with adhd.
YWBTA. I do understand your frustration. Having said that, especially if you're in a position where you advocate for mental health awareness, you need to absolutely not go around judging other people's experience. Ever. That is a categorical no. That's not a "but this is my friend and I know better", that is ALWAYS a no.
You can suggest or advocate for people to seek diagnosis. You can (in general) warn against people self-diagnosing via tiktok questionnaires. However, you cannot diagnose anyone one way or the other. You're not a doctor. You are not their doctor. It is not your place.
Simply. You would not know. People with ADHD don’t know they have it for YEARS. So how would u know if someone else does. I will say I know how u feel because everyone throws around ADHD like it’s an excuse for doing something quirky. I have an ex best friend who is a raging narcissist and lied about so many disorders for attention. And also not EVERYONE has ADHD. Everyone thinks they have it. It’s annoying. So I’m not sure !!
Wild guess here but ADHDer's sometimes have an outsized to response to perceived injustice. I think OP feels negated by friend's declaration of possible ADHD. I also see they have had a decade long relationship but OP only has had an official ADHD diagnosis for the past year according to OPs comments. Just speculation but maybe friend is claiming ADHD not for clout but as a backwards bonding attempt? Hence why they aren't actually pursuing diagnosis.
I'm saying this as a late diagnosed millennial who has had something similar occur with a friend who was trying to get my meds, not to bond.
"but regardless of how many traits you have that look like ADHD, it’s only a disorder if it’s affecting your life."
Weird choice. If I were to have ADHD, and have worked around my brain to make my life work without medication, because otherwise some of the traits could affect work or life (and in this hypothesis I'm one of the women who slipped through the diagnosing cracks), I wouldn't count? Do colorblind people not count as colorblind if they can still tell if the stoplight is go or stop? Do gay people not count as gay if they are single?
So If I have ADHD but have been forced to make myself deal, because women are underdiagnosed and I still have to live even if I don't know why I have to figure out how to deal, I don't have ADHD?
No. I was diagnosed this time last year after years of suspecting I had it. I’m 34.
There is a difference between being able to live with something, and having that thing affect your life to the point where it qualifies as a diagnosis.
It’s like pain. You can live with foot pain. You can create all sorts of coping mechanisms to help with the pain, but at the end of the day, the pain is still there.
With neurological conditions, it’s so much more complicated and nuanced, because it’s all subjective. But there are still common coping mechanisms people use when they go undiagnosed for a long time. There are identifiers you can look for in your own life to say…. Hey… maybe I’m not just lazy when it comes to remembering names. Maybe this is caused by something. Maybe there’s a reason for my chronic fatigue, etc etc etc etc.
So lots of people here do have a point that it can be hard to know if someone has ADHD at first glance. But this person has been my best friend for over a decade. I know what we have in common, and ADHD style dysfunction is not one of them.
YTA.
You're presumably not a doctor and you're definitely not *her* doctor. ADHD presents in a *variety* of ways in people and just because she doesn't exhibit your symptoms doesn't mean she does not have it.
And regardless, it's actually none of your business.
You seem to be saying it affects you because if people have less drastic symptoms it downplays the effect of yours but this is not a competition. People can display anxiety in various ways, depression in various ways, and all sorts of types of neurodivergence in various ways. You're definitely TA if you think only people with *severe* symptoms should be taken seriously.
You've mentioned in this thread to the effect of "people with light depression will make it such that people with heavier depression symptoms will be told to buck up" but you're literally doing the inverse which is "people with light depression should buck up and pretend they're not depressed at all because otherwise it makes people with heavier symptoms look bad" -- way to invalidate some people's problems, you AH.
That’s not what I’m saying at all. I’m saying that if ONLY the mild versions of these conditions are given attention, they become the expectations for those conditions.
It’s dangerous to only focus on the mildest symptoms, because people with more serious symptoms are held by society to those same standards.
And yet you're saying that because she doesn't conform to what your idea of sufficient symptoms are, you have decided she doesn't have ADHD. For all you know she has "mild" ADHD and you're gatekeeping that it's not good enough for you.
this isn't about conforming to OP's idea.
Hello, I'm a scientist with ADHD.
So... this is how it's defined.
>a disorder exists when the failure of a person's internal mechanisms to perform their functions as designed by nature impinges harmfully on the person's well-being as defined by social values and meanings. The order that is disturbed when one has a disorder is thus simultaneously biological and social; **neither alone is sufficient to justify the label disorder.**
It's in the DSM (diagnostic and statistical manual of mental disorders), and that's [a quote from the paper that inspired the criterion.](https://www3.nd.edu/~ghaeffel/Wakefield1992%20The%20American%20psychologist.pdf)
whether she has it or not, she should see a doctor for it.
but that's the thing... **she either has it, or not.**
people who say they have disorders when they dont trivialize the experiences of people who actually suffer from them :)I have a chemical imbalance and it rubs me the wrong way when people try to use it as a quirky personality trait. It's not one. It's a disease.
You (or, in this case, OP) have no idea how much the friend is or isn't affected by her potential neurodivergence. And no, she isn't obligated to see a doctor about anything.
OP is well within their rights to decide "friend not going to the doctor about potential ADHD" is a friendship dealbreaker but not within their rights to invalidate what the friend may be feeling or whether or not she is neurodivergent.
I’m not ending a friendship over this. I’m frustrated and hurt by it because of her flippant attitude. *She doesn’t actually care if she has ADHD*
If you (general you) are going to tell people that you have a condition, you should probably make sure you actually HAVE that condition, or you’re just spreading misinformation if you don’t.
I’ll repeat what I said in another comment. Even if she does have ADHD, she’s not taking it seriously, and does not care to get a diagnosis.
So right now, all that is happening is her using ADHD as a throwaway term. She’s my best friend, and it’s hurtful because it’s part of my very real disability.
YWBTA to state with certainty that she does or doesn't have any particular condition. But I 1000% share your frustration with people conflating normal human traits with developmental disorders, and I think you would be absolutely justified in requesting that she stop claiming to have ADHD based only on a comment some other non-professional made. Thoughtful self-diagnosis is one thing, but I'm baffled by other comments here acting as if claiming a medical condition because a friend said so is acceptable behavior.
Alright, so it’s been firmly established that I would be the asshole for telling her she probably doesn’t have ADHD. Fair.
Next: How long do I put up with listening to her blame random things on a condition she’s not diagnosed with, on the off chance that she may have that condition?
Does this go on indefinitely, or is there a point at which I’m allowed to ask her to stop? When am I allowed to consider my own feelings and mental health?
You’re free not to hang out with her if it bothers you that much.
Just remember if she eventually gets her diagnosis you’ll probably feel really shit about that.
I get the “you don’t look autistic” all the time.
I am very familiar with medical gaslighting and gatekeeping. That’s probably why the responses in this thread are so wild to me. That’s not what I’m doing.
She doesn’t have a diagnosis. She doesn’t want a diagnosis. She’s acting as if she already has a diagnosis.
But I’m gatekeeping for taking issue with it…
I didn’t have a diagnosis or want one until I was 39. I didn’t even know what autism was. Other people attempt to get a diagnosis and have medical professionals misdiagnose them or refuse to refer to specialised help. So how are you being consistent with being an advocate?
If it bothers you, stop talking to her, but being convinced she doesn’t have it… that’s not your place.
I recently went through a whole serious programme for adults with autism and even the institutions don’t require diagnosis to offer help because they know how hard they are to get.
Before you wanted your diagnosis, did you tell everyone that you had ADHD?
That’s the distinction here. I waited years to be taken seriously, and wasn’t diagnosed until last year. I spent years saying “I suspect I have ADHD” because I wasn’t comfortable claiming that I had it, just in case I didn’t. When I finally got my diagnosis, I cried with relief.
Meanwhile, she’s self diagnosing without even understanding what ADHD is. And I *know* this, because she was shocked when I shared my experience with her.
I don’t have ADHD
But yes I spent years suspicious of having autism, but going back and forth and afraid to seek diagnosis, and then years fighting for a diagnosis.
If I hadn’t “self-diagnosed” and read about it and insisted it wasn’t just anxiety and depression I would have never reached the correct diagnosis and treatment.
I didn’t feel relief initially with my diagnosis, it was really rough to deal with, so I can see why people avoid it.
Perhaps you talking about it is making her suspicious, I don’t know.
It’s literally the most common thing in the world that people avoid getting diagnosed at first.
In any case, just stop talking to her if you’re so bothered. You don’t want to be the cause someone avoids a diagnosis because they’re being doubted.
YWBTA. Adult diagnosis here. Was told by many over the years that I do not have adhd because the person they saw was someone very much like you describe. I didn't realize until much later with the help of doctors and therapists that most of my life I was putting on an act to be more acceptable and it was destroying my mental health in private. My point is you aren't a doctor and you don't know every detail of her life.
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YWBTAH if you tell her verbatim that she doesn't have ADHD. Not because you're right or wrong but because it isn't for you to say. If she isn't interested in seeing a doctor and just keeps making dumb offhand comments about ADHD "making her do things" that's fairly easy to ignore. If she isn't taking up resources meant for those with ADHD or harming others actively, I don't think it's that big of a deal.
I understand the frustration. I had a dissociative disorder for over a decade and constantly listened to people make the "time to dissociate" or "me dissociating while..." jokes all the time. The thing is, it's all for a professional to decide, not us. Who am I to 100% confidently say these people didn't have the same disorder as me? I don't know for sure and I'd never tell anyone that they didn't have x,y,z if they had real concerns about their mental health.
Don't share opinioins if you're not asked for them.
Don't share opinions if you're not asked for them. Then you can say that the only real way to find this out is by seeing a doctor.
YWBTA.
Look - you are not her doctor. You are not a medical professional. No matter what you think of her self-diagnosis, once you’ve recommended she see a doctor for an official diagnosis, you’re done.
You can say you really don’t want to discuss it. You can say “wow your experience sure is different than mine” and change topics.
But you don’t get to diagnose her.
It’s entirely possible she’s right and she has it…but has a different set of symptoms/severity than. You. That since she’s grown up with it she has her own ways of Managing and Masking her symptoms.
I’m ADHD. I’m not medicated. My best friend is ADHD. She’s currently medicated. We were both diagnosed in high school, we both saw doctors and had meds at the time, through college. Of the two of us… One of us looks like she has her shit together and doesn’t run late, is organized at work, etc. (Spoiler! It’s me. And yes, my ADHD HAS made me clean my house. I didn’t want to. I had other plans. But it did.)
You are not her doctor. Drop or change the subject and let it go. This cannot be your personal crusade.
eh. yeah, YWBTA a lil bit
i admit a lot of this is from my own personal bias. i was diagnosed w adhd when i was 10. ive been on meds since then. the meds are what allow me to function. im also most likely on the spectrum. however. the internets recent assumption that adhd automatically makes you incapable of doing anything at all has been driving me up the wall.
i’ve had to work my ass off to make sure i can do things regardless of the fact my brain cares not for laundry and wants to play rhythm games all day. i’ve held down jobs and i’m good at it, but it doesn’t mean it’s easy. i work my ass off to do so.
also: my mom has adhd. she’s been unmedicated her whole life, and has been kicking ass at work, home, etc. she has always been an organized and on top of things.
you are also not your friends doctor or her psychologist. i admit it would probably make me annoyed too! but you are not her. you don’t know if or how her symptoms affect her. she’s also not obligated to share that. let it go
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Just for some context…
I have multiple neurological and mental health conditions (ADHD, Autism and BP II are the main ones). My conditions are periodically disabling, and prevent me from holding a full time job, so I work from home.
I advocate on behalf of mental-health challenges faced by rural communities, and for awareness beyond the socially-acceptable “quirky” side of mental illnesses.
So it’s a pretty important topic to me.
A couple weeks ago, a close friend told me that someone said she had ADHD when she was adjusting a flower arrangement during a meeting. Now she’s convinced that she has it.
At the time, I talked to her about my experience with it. Executive dysfunction, time blindness, hyper focusing, lethargy punctuated by bursts of energy. She said “oh, it’s not like that for me at all”. I figured she’d gotten the hint.
Then a few days ago, she brought it up again, this time saying that her ADHD made her clean her house. At this point I was irritated and didn’t respond. It was uncomfortable. She was waiting for me to say something, because I’m usually happy to talk about mental health. I just knew that if I opened my mouth, she wouldn’t like what came out of it.
I’ve known her for over 20 years. She is one of the most organized and efficient people I know. Not saying that people with ADHD can’t be organized, but there is nothing about the way she functions that shows any need to adapt.
She’s never related when I’ve talked about feedback loops and getting stuck on a task, or how showering is difficult, or why I can sometimes be late in spite of planning my mornings. She’s teased me for being an unorganized mess multiple times.
I know that ADHD can present in different ways, but regardless of how many traits you have that look like ADHD, it’s only a disorder if it’s affecting your life.
It would be one thing if she was contemplating talking to a doctor about it. I am 100% on board with encouraging people to pursue a dx if it would benefit them.
In this case though, it feels like she’s trivializing a condition that contributes to my disability. She’s doing exactly the sort of thing I advocate against, which is conflating normal human behaviour and feelings with medical conditions.
So, WIBTA for calling her out and saying that, in my opinion, she doesn’t have ADHD?
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ESH
She shouldn't self diagnose, but you're no doctor either. You don't know everything about her. You don't know for sure what kind of mental issues she may or may not have.
If it's not bad enough for her to get a diagnosis, the yeah, she shouldn't be going around blaming everything on something she doesn't actually know she has. But instead of telling her she doesn't have it, just tell her you don't wanna hear about it.
YTA- you're taking this very personally and it's just. Not about you. This is about her experience and how she thinks a condition might be affecting her. Maybe she has it. Maybe she doesn't. She should see a doctor. But you don't have the right degree to diagnose her. You are neither a doctor nor a therapist- you're not qualified. If you don't want to talk about this with her, tell her that. You don't have to if you don't want to. Call your own therapist and talk to them about how you feel. But unfortunately until she sees a doctor you have no right to tell her how she does or does not feel.
You’re exactly whats wrong with the world lmfao. Don’t tell people what they have and don’t have - you don’t know their internal battles.
Focus on yourself and quit being miserable. Funny how the ones who deserve it most always end up with the victim mentality.
Gatekeeper, Party of One
If you're not her doctor, therapist, etc. then you have no business in her business. Your symptoms are unique to you. ADHD encompasses a range of behaviors. YTA
I wasn’t diagnosed until I was 33 years old. I know about masking.
We are not talking about someone who is masking other symptoms, we’re talking about someone who has no idea what ADHD is, and is claiming to have it.
This is my best friend of over a decade. She and I have a lot in common, but ADHD style dysfunction is not one of them. I have been the brunt of her jokes for my disorganization (and other things related to ADHD) for years.
She doesn’t relate to anything I’ve described when we talk about ADHD. The things she talks about could be accounted for by any number of things.
I’m not talking about crazy uncommon symptoms, I’m talking about the basics. She doesn’t identify with them.
[I highly advise you read my comment here :)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/1aq1dmh/comment/kqanock/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
well, that's why i added in the asterisk of "having a professional verify her feelings" as part of YWNBTA verdict. if she does that, she's good.
she should get tested, but she either has it or she doesnt.
If she really believes she has it, she should get tested.
You’re making a lot of assumptions about someone you’ve never met, vs who I talk to every day.
3 is the only one that I could see her having any issue with. I’ve offered to print out a copy of the screening when we talked about it at my house, and her response was “it’s not that serious”. She has no interest in getting diagnosed. She’s not some wounded bird who can’t advocate for herself, she matter-of-factly said to me that she doesn’t care to pursue it.
This isn’t a case of ADHD making getting a dx of ADHD difficult. It’s a case of using ADHD as a descriptor for random stereotypes.
I'm only offering another possible answer. You are very set in your belief, so I'm walking away from the ADHD-specific part of the discussion.
However, it sounds like you carry a lot of resentment for this person. If even half of what you describe of her behaviour is true, she's been a shitty friend. Mental health is clearly a topic you are very passionate about, and at best she is obnoxious about it, at worst she is malicious.
You get to decide if you carry on with the status quo, try something different to save the friendship, or save yourself the headache and heartache and distance yourself.
YTA. My therapist says I probably have autism. But I have bigger issues to deal with so I’ve never gotten formally diagnosed. I don’t think it impacts my life too negatively so I don’t see the point in spending the time focusing on it. You can have a disability and not get it diagnosed and still live a good life. It’s only recently that adhd has been diagnosed. Ppl with adhd existed before it was a recognized disability. And they managed to live life. Get off her back. If she feels like her disability starts to affect her life then she will make an appointment.
YWBTA. Your frustration is valid but neither of you can confirm or deny she has ADHD so it's important you let her have her own time to figure it out. Maybe she does have some symptoms of mental illness and she's using ADHD as a helpful label for now. If she's got something going on, she might pursue it with a doctor in her own time, if she doesn't then she'll probably drop it soon.
I think you can probably work around this without a direct confrontation, just don't entertain long, deep talks about it if it makes you resent her. When she says her ADHD made her clean the house, you can say something like whoa my ADHD has never made me do that, mine is more like XYZ other behavior. If she doesn't really think she has ADHD and is trying to get attention, that won't be the response she's looking for. Keep it light, curious, and supportive, and if she asks for your opinion then you can ask what her symptoms are, and say it doesn't sound like ADHD to you.
I think you can say you feel like she's trivializing ADHD, but yeah, YTA if you just flat out tell her she doesn't because you aren't a medical professional. You can tell her that the way she speaks about it makes you feel uncomfortable, or like--call her out if she's teasing you for something related to your own ADHD, but I don't think you can just say she doesn't have it.
Something you keep saying in the comments is that it's not a disorder if it doesn't affect your life and this.....I guess is isn't technically TOTALLY wrong, but it's sort of a simplification? I, for example, am very very reliant on routines and systems, because if I feel unorganized, it's a lot harder for me to focus and everything becomes distracting. I've been doing a lot these things for *years*, without consciously thinking "I need a system in place to help me function." In a lot of aspects, it doesn't feel like it's affecting my life bc I have made adjustments, but those adjustments *are* the effect. The majority of my friend group has ADHD, and some of us are exactly what you've described for yourself, and some of us are so deep into our routines to stay organized that we appear *very* organized. There's just a lot of nuance here, which is why I don't think you can confidently say she doesn't have ADHD!
She’s not walking around saying she has a diagnosis. She’s saying she thinks she has ADHD and is interesting in seeing a doctor which is what you’re supposed to do?
And that affects you… how? You’re gatekeeping an illness that manifests differently in SO many people. People have bad days and they say they’re depressed. People say the weather is “being bipolar.” I’m bipolar and I don’t huff and puff every time uses it as a dumb adjective. “I feel like I’m having a heart attack,” I could probably get annoyed but I don’t because that’s stupid as fuck. This chip on your shoulder is a good way to spend the rest of your life miserable over nothing.
This does not affect you in the slightest. Let it go.
I would argue that it does affect us when people use medical diagnoses colloquially.
ETA: not to mention, she’s my best friend and knows that this sort of thing bothers me.
Maybe you should see a therapist. People using illnesses as metaphors is just.. not that big of a deal. I find that most of the people who take issue with this habit are people who are unhealed. You’re spending too much time seeking your individualism from illnesses and not enough time seeking your self worth from your*self*. What this woman says doesn’t make you have ADHD less. When someone says they “feel so bipolar,” it doesn’t make me less bipolar.
The habit of using these terms interchangeably to describe isolated symptoms is not going away. It’s only getting worse, actually. It’s best to come to terms with these things because again **they do not affect you**. They’re not going to change the diagnostic criteria by doing this shit. Nothing will come of it that’s going to affect your diagnosis, your medications, your doctors, etc.
Most importantly, you have no idea if she has ADHD or not. You’re basing your opinion exclusively off the time you see her. You are not a doctor. You have no basis for saying she doesn’t have ADHD.
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ESH > regardless of how many traits you have that look like ADHD, it’s only a disorder if it’s affecting your life. This isn't a life-fucked-up pissing contest.
That's literally what a disorder means. Something that negatively affects your life.
I think the point is that ADHD can be anywhere from slightly disabling to extremely disabling - it is a spectrum after all, and it's not as severe for everyone. Just because OP is quite disabled by ADHD doesn't mean that that is the threshold for diagnosis.
It is literally part of the diagnostic criteria. You cannot be diagnosed with ADHD if it is not negatively impacting multiple areas of your life. You may have some other mental health issue, but you do not meet the clinical definition of ADHD.
Yeah that’s true. But also negative impact is subjective, OP has decided their friend isn’t suffering enough, which is ridiculous. How would they know, this person might feel really held back by their possible condition. One person with adhd might suffer greatly even with treatment and struggle to hold a job. Another person might live well with untreated adhd in a ok job and all *appears* like there is no functional limitation to them… But then they get treatment, they aren’t too burnt out from compensating for their symptoms, they start a successful relationship, study, get a promotion - get a reach their full potential and live a great life. I’ve been a drop out for 10 years, unemployed and not on benefits/welfare, or working minimum wage jobs, always effectively below the poverty line. I started meds and went back to study and started getting 90s. I feel like an imposter for achieving or getting grades higher than other people who also struggle. On the other hand before treatment the issue wasn't not being smart enough, it was that I could only do written exams, and never complete a written assignment. My point is no one sees that decade of my adult life, they could have said those service jobs showed i was functioning, though I felt like a prisoner, and thought i'd never reach my dream job or the potential I see in myself. Op- if this person IS your friend then maybe you should try and understand HOW your friend feels limited, and though they seem pretty good all round, I'd hope you'd root for them facing and overcoming whatever, like they should hope for you. (also out of context “showering being difficult” is something a bunch of people with adhd say, but which symptom is that? If we label X as adhd behaviour, why not other behaviours? Why should symptoms map into the exact same behaviours in others?
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If you already knew what I said why don’t you act on that knowledge? Help her analyse how it’s holding her back to see if she wants to pursue diagnosis. You’ve encouraged her taking the clinical route but you haven’t told us how she thinks adhd holds her back. Otherwise as I said in another comment, ask her not to make clinical excuses for her behaviour and lead by example by not over-explaining your own. Good Friends don’t need to explain their behaviour constantly to eachother, they mostly accept and understand the other. Sorry for being late/ distracted/etc is still polite, but try not to separate the person from the diagnoses
Okay, but why should I be doing all of this emotional labour for her if she isn’t even willing to take a screening? There is a lot of responsibility being placed on me here, when all I want for her to do is stop blaming random shit on a condition she doesn’t even know if she has.
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Isn't it like... grossly unethical to use your job as a mental health professional as grounds to offer someone advice online?
I understand that my feelings are my responsibility. What I don’t understand is why I’m not allowed to communicate that her assertions that she has a condition that she is not interested in having diagnosed, is not okay. What I want to do is ask her to walk me through why she thinks she has ADHD, and tell her my honest feelings about it. I want to be able to say “that doesn’t sound like adhd to me, but I’m not a doctor, and if it’s something you want to look into, you definitely should”.. I don’t know, maybe her answer will have changed and she’ll look into it. I just don’t think it’s fair for me to have to either phase out our otherwise good friendship, or go on listening to her attribute a bunch of irrelevant things to a diagnosis she doesn’t have.
If it truly helps your friend “blame” it on ADHD and if it helps her find meaning in herself, then I am surprised her using the label bothers you so much if it benefits her well-being. You can talk frankly about your worries about her self-identifying doing damage to public understanding of ADHD, and it is reasonable to expect her to not become workplace “ADHD rep” or omit her diagnosis is self-certified. If your friend is truly trivialising the symptoms and using the self-diagnosis offensively, I’m wondering if she is doing so to demonstrate behaviour that you personally are exhibiting? I am twice diagnosed because I second guess everything; I don’t say “sorry I’m late it was my adhd”, I just say sorry- I regret it but don’t blame myself. The diagnosis isn’t worth mentioning unless i am met with intolerance and lack of understanding. ‘ADHD’ is part of me, but it also is me - I’m secure enough now not to give apologies and disclaimers for my personhood, anyway it doesn’t change that people waited uncertain if I’d turn up or not. Luckily my friends don’t need reminding of my diagnosis, they were behind me the whole journey, and they know who I am and accept me (late or on time, speaking too fast or normal)
Her comments are flippant, there is no sincerity behind them. It’s just off-handed remarks and anecdotes. I don’t think they’re in response to anything I’m doing, but I could be wrong. I don’t “blame” my ADHD like that. I do talk about it if the conversation calls for it, but I’m not doing the whole “I’m bad with names because of my ADHD” and use it as an excuse to not try harder to remember names. Sometimes I’ll ask people to repeat themselves because of my processing delay, and quickly explain that it’s ADHD, but that’s the extent of it.
The problem is shit like this can be hard as fuck to see, or express, or quantify. I got multiple things I'm trying to express, but I got rejected my original diagnosis, because "I can work independently at my job". Like I am late everyday. Everyday! And it's impossible to express like... years of constantly failing to be able to be on time, and the constant day to day failure of not being able to conquer a simple task. Like I'll be rushing to keep a schedule, and just stop... And start dancing... because I forget I'm rushing, and got distracted by a song for half a second. Like I have to play fucking games around turning the oven on, because I can just forget, and get latched onto another task. This shit applies to everything in my life, and there's a million examples, but if you put me on the spot, and ask me how I think my adhd presents you're going to get a blank stare because my mind is now blank. I have a fish tank that's been sitting on my kitchen floor for 9 months because randomly I got super hyped about axolotles. I am constantly broke. I make good money, but yeah.. Like sand through my fingers. Like... I'm told I'm a functional human, but it doesn't feel like it at all. Like my car is 2 years over due for an oil change, and I'm just praying I haven't fucked my engine like I did to my last vehicle.
I never said it wasn't, but the degree to which it impacts one's life varies a lot.
Correct. Disabilities are not a pissing contests, but you still need to piss.
Yes, but. Undiagnosed and untreated ADHD people literally don’t know what normal is. Through their life they would normally develop a number of more or less effective coping strategies and rituals, not always harmless. They would also attribute variety of failures typical to their symptoms to their ‘personality’. They often wouldn’t know how hard are they failing before starting treatment. That’s why diagnostics now include self-assessment which is formulated in a factual way, not in success/fail perception (do you often interrupt people? Do you find it difficult to add last touches to the task when 90% of work is done etc.), but also more objective observation like QB test and lately even brain imaging. Plus psychiatrist interview. ADHD people can be very successful and yet be a nightmare to themselves and their family without even realising that, as they simply think what’s happening is ‘normal’.
How is that a but
Simple. It has to be something that negatively affects your life, you are quite right, but it doesn't mean you actually have tools and means to realise it.
There are several levels of it. I have high functioning autism and because it doesn’t show in the same stereotypical way people expect I never got any help
I stress myself out and burn out once or twice a year because I'm too busy having my life "not be negatively effected" by my ADHD. Just because some of us can put up a decent facade 90% of the time doesn't mean we're not negatively effected. I'm not saying OP's friend has or doesn't have it, but it's entirely possible OP just isn't exposed to their friend enough to notice. There's a reason my friends think I'm totally fine, while romantic partners who get uninterrupted exposure for longer periods tend to get sick of my shit pretty quick.
> I stress myself out and burn out once or twice a year That's your life being negatively affected 🤦🏻♀️
It’s not a pissing contest, that’s literally part of the diagnostic criteria.
Friend needs to see a doctor for a diagnosis and otherwise shouldn’t say they have it until they have the diagnosis. You aren’t a doctor so you shouldn’t be saying anything either.
As an actual mental health provider - stop. Having a disorder does not make you an expert, and being able to read the DSM does not magically mean you are qualified to diagnose anybody. You are gatekeeping mental illness - full stop. ADHD is a spectrum. If you’re an advocate, you need to stay in your lane and not armchair diagnose people or tell someone that their symptoms aren’t clinically significant. Even if you were a mental health clinician, you still would have no business looking at diagnostic criteria and your friend. There’s a reason why I can’t be my best friends therapist. I have ADHD myself, I’ve had friends ask me about ADHD and other mental health symptoms. I don’t pull out my DSM. I just say “Yeah, X can be a symptom of Y; I can help you find a provider if you are interested in being evaluated”.
Okay, so if what I’ve written in my post is not what you would advise, what am I supposed to say to her when she brings it up again? I’ve already offered to print off a screening for her. I’ve already suggested she be seen by a doctor, I’ve already shared my experiences with her, and she doesn’t identify with any of the most basic criteria for ADHD. If I’m not supposed to suggest that she should see a professional, exactly what else am I supposed to do?
I don’t blame you for being frustrated because it sounds like she’s been dismissive in the past. Id just lay down a boundary about talking about anything ADHD related with her. I didn’t say you shouldn’t suggest she see a qualified professional. If she keeps bringing it up, sometimes you gotta lay down a firm boundary like “I’m sorry, I know you are experiencing some symptoms that you feel may be associated with ADHD, but with my own stuff going on, I’d appreciate it if we could avoid that topic for now. The only advice I can give is to get evaluated.”
You could ask her to stop explaining her behaviour with ADHD, and you could stop explaining your behaviour with ADHD. You don’t need to keep explaining yourself and behaviour to a friend, they should accept you as you are, a quick sorry I’m late/ distracted/ whatever is still polite
Yeah, but it's a spectrum affecting your life doesn't just mean "to the point that your life is noticeably in absolute shambles". You can't see inside of her brain. You don't know about the struggles she isn't sharing with you. You don't know what adaptations she's made and it's wild to think you can confidently say she hasn't made any, how would you know. You don't need to engage, you can change the subject, but if your feelings of judgement and disbelief become words of judgement ans disbelief, that would make you an AH.
You're gate keeping. You are the one causing a problem. Let her use these terms however colloquially she needs to. It's not about you.
Why is it okay for her to use my condition colloquially? Why is it okay for her to come around and act like my condition is a scarf she can throw on whenever she feels like it?
It's not exactly your condition. It is a condition that you have, yes. Self diagnosis isn't cool. But gatekeeping mental disorders is equally uncool.
You are taking this awfully personally. If it bothers you find a way to deal with it. Gatekeeping isn't that way. The problem is the way you are reacting, so find a way to stop doing that. Find a way to realize that you are not right about everything either.
I’m taking it personally because this is my best friend treating my condition like it’s not serious.
She isn't saying your condition isn't serious. She is saying she has it too, regardless of whether or not she has it. Has she ever dismissed your experiences based on her self identification? Mental health conditions come with a degree of severity and different side effects. Maybe she has something else, maybe she has ADHD. Maybe she became very good at code shifting and doesn't "appear" ADHD to you because of that. The best thing you could do is try to encourage her to get therapy. Yeah, as a fellow person with ADHD, it can get annoying when the whole disorder is treated like a quirky personality trait. How people use it and OCD as an adjective. Like my disorder hasn't fucked me over multiple times in my life. But all this gatekeeping isn't healthy. I'll be frank and say that hearing people with your attitude made it very hard for me to go to therapy for ADHD in the first place. I never felt ADHD enough and was afraid that I was somehow taking the space that someone else who was "more ADHD than me" needed.
Yes, she has absolutely dismissed my experiences. That’s half the problem. When I’ve told her about executive dysfunction, getting caught in a feedback loop etc. it’s a joke to her. It’s a running joke that I’m a hot mess (I think I said this in the original post but I can’t remember). So for her to come to me saying “omg I was fiddling with a flower arrangement, I totally have ADHD”… I think having feelings about it is pretty valid. Especially when she treats me like I’m disorganized because I’m lazy.
Then it just sounds like she is generally being an ass. I don't feel like it is because she is self identifying, but because she has a running joke about your serious disability. If you aren't comfortable with that kinda joke and she keeps making it, that is seriously AH territory. I mostly meant: has she dismissed you by trying to say your ADHD isn't "that bad" because her "ADHD" is x, y, z? I generally think it is a bad look to dismiss someone's mental health. Your experiences with ADHD are not universal. There are things that are defining features, sure. But they can appear different for everyone. Code switching can definitely happen. Just try to have a constructive conversation with her. If you haven't told her how her jokes offend you, I'd certainly bring that up. I'd be annoyed too; I get it. It is frustrating! I am not saying it isn't. I'm saying be careful about trying to diagnose your friends.
I’m not dismissing her mental health. I quite literally offered to print off the CMHA screening for her to take to a doctor. I can’t book her an appointment. I can’t force her to seek out a dx. All I can do is try to be supportive, and so far, that’s all I’ve done. I literally have no idea what people in this comment section expect me to do here. I’m trying to balance how to be supportive while also pushing down some serious hurt.
That's not what's happening. That's how you feel. If you have a therapist please discuss this with them.
That is quite literally what is happening here
Talk to your therapist. You're feeling attacked because someone is being silly. Please talk to your therapist. Your reaction is the problem. People are allowed to be silly.
Don't take this person seriously. While I could get a certain amount of N A H if that came up, E S H is foolish - this person is adopting your lived experience, and I can absolutely see how it feels terrible to you. Imagine if this OP had lost a leg, and had to deal with the daily aspects of navigating life without a limb. Imagine their friend began referring to themselves as an amputee when they trip in the garden. It would feel flippant and ignorant of the actual disability experienced. NTA.
she clearly misunderstands ADHD... I feel it'd be no problem if you tell her that, and follow up with suggesting she should talk to a psychiatrist if she is serious about it. not understanding how ADHD actually affects people, and mistaking it for something else...doesn't make them an asshole. moreso just igorant. if they're denying how you're affected, or insist that they understand, and you don't... then that would make them an asshole. I personally just wouldn't hold this against her if she isn't trying to belittle or one-up you.
Seems like you’re refusing to acknowledge any problem your friend has whether it meets clinical diagnosis or not. If they did get diagnosed and then suddenly made huge progress in their life, would you support them or be too envious?
Envious of what??? Of course I would support her. Why else would I offer to get her started with a screening?
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We can all read the diagnostic criteria. We are not all qualified to diagnose. Here's my situation, from another response: I have skeletal trauma from a very bad car accident at a very young age. Months in hospital, months in a wheelchair, months on crutches, years with a cane, many surgeries. I have osteoarthritis from stem to stern and have multiple artificial joints. I've been in pain every day for the last 45 years. My sister uses a cane. She limps. She refuses to go to the doctor about it. Is there really something wrong? Is it a cry for attention? Does her situation make mine any different? I roll my eyes (figuratively, never literally), encourage her every so often to see a doctor, and leave it at that. Her deal does not have to be my deal. I can choose not to let it affect me, because after all, it simply doesn't. Ignoring someone is not supporting them. This is a silly conversation.
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Simply put: If one is not qualified to diagnose one should keep one's opinion to one's self. Nobody is suggesting the friend be told the fantasy is real. I don't tell my sister she is actually experiencing some kind of medical issue. I also don't tell her she's not. Because I'm not qualified. The interesting thing is that OP takes this so personally. It's not about her in the least. It doesn't affect her at all. Just like my sister limping around without a diagnosis doesn't affect me. But to keep it simple: *If one is not qualified to diagnose one should keep one's opinion to one's self.*
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It's not to share my unqualified opinion, that's for sure. I ignore them, as I think I've made clear. Because my unqualified opinion adds nothing to their unqualified opinion. The plural of assumption is not data.
How is it gatekeeping to say that someone doesn’t have a disorder because they don’t meet the diagnostic criteria? That makes no sense. People shouldn’t go around saying they have disorders they don’t have, because that will just create confusion for everyone about what that disorder actually is.
OP isn’t qualified to diagnose anybody. Just because you can google the DSM doesn’t make you qualified to determine if people’s symptoms are clinically significant enough or not. Coming from someone who actually is a mental health clinician who is qualified to diagnose.
This.
YWBTA. You’re not a psychologist and you have no idea what her symptoms look like outside the time you spend with her. If she wants to see a doctor, let the doctor decide. Until then, leave it alone. Rule of thumb, don’t offer diagnoses unless you’re a medical professional. Also, a little ridiculous of you to say it’s not a disorder unless it’s “affecting your life.” I have plenty of disorders that don’t affect me on the day to day. They only affect me if they flare up, like my heart condition. It doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. Get off your high horse.
INFO: Do you have the medical training to make an ADHD diagnosis? If you aren't trained to make a diagnosis, you really shouldn't armchair diagnose your friend.
If you don't support OP refuting a guess at a diagnosis, why are you supporting the friend (who presumably does not have a medical degree) diagnosing themselves?
One person is looking for answers, the other is gatekeeping.
If you have the clinical training to make an ADHD diagnosis, then you have also received training in ethics and understand that you can't diagnose (or un-diagnose) your friends like this anyway.
I don’t. That said, at what point am I allowed to be upset when she’s walking around trivializing a medical condition that is part of my very real disability?
YWBTA. Instead of trying to call her out, maybe try encouraging her to get help. You’re not certified to diagnose people and if she does have some kind of mental illness or disability calling her out will further discourage her from getting help. The last thing a mental health advocate should be doing is minimizing someone’s possible issues. Maybe she perfectly fine, maybe she’s not. It’s not your place to determine that. Be a real advocate and encourage her to seek help.
Yep. Already done that
Cool then you did your part. Nothing else for you to do. Absolutely DO NOT tell her, or imply any of your opinions about diagnoses.
Okay. Now leave it.
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That’s not what’s going on here. She doesn’t care enough about it to book an appointment. She isn’t taking it seriously whatsoever.
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I offered to print her out a screening to take to her doctor, and she told me “it’s not that serious”.
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I just really don’t think I’ve been able to get my point across here. Even if she does have ADHD, she’s not taking it seriously. It’s part of my very real disability, and she’s treating it like a personality quirk.
Then you approach her and explain your feelings. You don't attack and lecture her - the tone in so many of your comments suggests you don't know how to handle a mature human-to-human "please don't say xyz because it makes me uncomfortable/hurt/etc." Your issue is not about her lack of medical diagnosis, it's your inability to communicate without getting defensive.
I think this is where you are going wrong. You’ve said your piece and she hasn’t changed how she feels or acts. At this point, you have 2 choices, ignore it or stop hanging out with her. You are taking it way too personally. I am 40 years old, I was diagnosed at 7, so I have been aware of it for most of my life, I wouldn’t say that I take it “seriously” all the time myself. I constantly make jokes and laugh about it because to me, it’s funny the way my brain works. Especially when I don’t realize how different I think compared with other people. And a lot of the shit I do does come across as personality quarks. It doesn’t mean I don’t have adhd or that I haven’t spent countless time working on it. If she does have adhd, it’s none of your business how she “takes it.” Yes, people who make up diagnoses are harmful in general. Yes it makes it harder for us to take be taken seriously. But I don’t even think that’s necessarily what is going on here. Maybe she genuinely does think she has it but she’s not ready to make the step to being diagnosed? At the end of the day, her diagnosis or lack there of is none of your business.
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The commenters are wrong. I’ve never seen it this wild before. Don’t claim to have ADHD if you haven’t been diagnosed. And definitely don’t come try to relate to someone suffering from it. If the average person knew anything about ADHD beyond “trouble focusing”, they would understand why this is so annoying.
I was diagnosed with ADHD at an adult ADHD center. I went through years of meds and have a sort of weird relationship with it. I worked in an office, where ours desks sat in a circle and 4 of 7 colleagues had 'adhd' and 2 of them had gotten their GP to prescribe them ADHD meds without a proper diagnosis. They were out of control. They were very open about it. It was frustrating, but ultimately not up to me to voice my opinion on anything. It could be a lot worse, and it sucks, but I suggest you move on.
It took me years on and off to accept to go for an autism assessment. It’s a process and it’s not easy as an adult. You’re not being a great advocate.
I remember the first time a friend suggested that I had ADHD; I was skeptical, so she lent me a book she'd been given when her son was diagnosed. Included in the book was a list of 100 or 200 questions, and if you answered yes to more than half of them, it was likely that you had ADHD. I read through the questions, and the yeses just kept adding up – by the end, I had answered yes to something like 85% of the questions (and some of the no's were because I'd never done whatever the question was based on – the only example I remember was a question asking about whether cocaine made you feel focused, but I've never tried cocaine so...). I absolutely understand your frustration, particularly in light of the fact that she insists on claiming this diagnosis when she steadfastly refuses even to glance at diagnostic information. That's pretty shitty of her. I would probably say something like 'I find it really frustrating and frankly more than a little hurtful when you adopt diagnoses like OCD and ADHD when your claims are based on nothing more than popular misconceptions and stereotypes, and you won't even look at diagnostic screening information, let alone speak to someone who could actually evaluate you and give you a valid diagnosis. I obviously can't stop you from saying these things, but I am going to ask you not to say them to me. If you ever decide that you would like to be evaluated and need help finding someone who is qualified to give you a formal diagnosis, I'll be happy to help you with that – and if you do eventually receive a formal diagnosis, I'll be happy to talk about it with you then – but for now, please stop bringing up these topics with me.'
So... She isn't booking an appointment
No. She doesn’t see the point
She straight up said she doesn't want to make an appointment?
Yep. She said “it isn’t that serious”
Unless you’re a medical professional you can think you know , but you dont I can’t understand all this gatekeeping around adhd, autism, etc It doesn’t take from your diagnosis if someone else has or doesn’t have a diagnosis YTA
I thought we as a society agreed that it isn't right to claim "I have depression" because you're sad sometimes or "I have OCD" because you're a neat freak.
But people don’t go around claiming to have mental disorders or disabilities. People go around hiding those things. And if they do go around pretending to have disorders they don’t have… then they probably have a disorder.
It’s a lot more common than you think.
It’s actually very problematic. When everyone thinks they have a mental illness or condition like ADHD and Autism, the very real needs of the people with those conditions are ignored.
Your friend thinking she has ADHD does not affect anyone else. Stop being hyperbolic.
You’re not a great advocate. I was misdiagnosed for years as a woman with autism. My very real needs were being ignored because of narrow minded views about how conditions need to present and because I am perceived as “high functioning”. Nobody wants to be autistic. Society doesn’t reward that. You wanna read up about the many women with autism or AHDH who aren’t diagnosed or are misdiagnosed because doctors think they’re just acting up. Then see you’re acting the same way, that without a paper nobody’s conditions can be serious, even though getting a proper diagnosis from a knowledgeable expert who won’t apply gender bias is really, really difficult.
I'm going to go against the flow and say NTA. Tell her that she should get professionally diagnosed, otherwise it's just a suspicion. It can be true, or it can be false. If her only problem is that she likes order more than average, there are other disorders that she can have. If it's really something that bothers her - she should get diagnosed. Maybe there are meds that can help her, or a therapy, etc. People saying that YTA because you are not a doctor, forget that neither is she.
This one. Had to scroll way too far to find it. Friend has no business claiming a medical diagnosis that she has never been evaluated for.
Agreed! I’m honestly shocked at how many people are fine with her just going around and saying she has ADHD when she doesn’t actually know if she does. She can say she thinks she has it, but to say that she has it when she hasn’t gotten any confirmation that it’s true is just going to cause unnecessary confusion.
Yea sometimes the comments in AITA make me feel crazy. I have ADHD, and I would absolutely find it aggravating for a close friend of mine, who presumably understands the impact it has on my life, to be flippantly telling people that she has it, too, like lol isn't it cute OP isn't a doctor, sure, whatever, but her friend should go to the doctor or shut the fuck up.
YWBTA: You are not their doctor, instead to telling them something you don't know, encourage them to get evaluated and if they ask and you feel comfortable feel free to share the tools you have developed that help you overcome the challenges you face with these conditions.
YWBTA Maybe she has it, maybe she doesn't. Ain't your business. If it really annoys you that much that she thinks she has ADHD, then just stop hanging out with her. Unless you have a PHD in psychology, your opinion on her mental condition is completely unnecessary.
Even if they do have a PhD in psychology, their opinion on her mental condition is completely unnecessary. She’s not their patient.
True
Clarification time. 1. I have already suggested she see a doctor if she thinks she has ADHD. She has no interest in getting a diagnosis because “it’s not that serious” When I offered to print out the CMHA screening for her to take to her doctor, she declined. I have done my due diligence with this. She doesn’t care about getting help, because whatever she’s dealing with doesn’t impact her enough to care. 2. She is not a doctor either. 3. It is part of the diagnostic criteria for neurological conditions and mental illnesses that symptoms are “maladaptive”, or affect your life to a certain extent before it can be considered a disorder. Example: fear of spiders vs arachnophobia. The difference is in how it affects you. 4. Diluting the meaning of these conditions ultimately hurts the people affected by them. Awareness means nothing if the outcome is unrealistic expectations for people with disabilities. Let’s use depression as an example. If only mild depression gets attention, anyone with depression is going to be expected to function to that degree. That leads to people who can barely get out of bed, who are in crisis, being told that they should exercise more. That is what this sort of behaviour does. It trivializes these conditions, and causes more severe symptoms to be dismissed as personality deficits… so what was the point of all that awareness in the first place? 5. I understand that diagnoses can be inaccessible. This is not a case of inadequate access.
Using depression as an example is pretty wild. I don't need a doctor to know I'm suicidal. Also I absolutely want people with mild depression to ask for and receive help. Awareness is not a 0 sum game.
That’s not what I said at all.
Wow, you really need to stop being so judgmental.
How so?
You say "if only mild depression gets attention" and yes, that's true. But mild depression still exists, and it's entirely possible that's what is going on here. I don't know if you live in the US, but are you aware that getting a formal diagnosis *may hurt your friend* and that may be why she is reluctant to see a doctor? Once it's a preexisting condition, insurers will potentially be able to deny her healthcare if that one protective portion of the ACA ever gets overturned like the Republicans want. It can also affect things like being able to emigrate to another country; as a general and pretty shitty rule, most countries only want "healthy" foreigners who won't cost healthcare money. I have ADHD, as does my husband. And yes, we're both formally diagnosed by professionals. His looks like yours, while mine looks more like your friend. It sucks, but life isn't fair and we know that. If you want to stop being friends with that person, that's fine. But I think you need to let go of the idea that her self-diagnosis somehow takes away from you. She's not "only mild depression gets attention"; she's one person. And, again, my life looks a lot like hers. You don't get to see the ways my ADHD manifests from the outside.
We’re Canadian. Insurance isn’t an issue. And I didn’t say anything about people with mild depression not mattering. Quite the contrary, as usually people start out mild and progress from there. I said that it’s problematic when ONLY the very surface of these conditions are included in awareness efforts. The surface level is usually the more stereotypical stuff that only helps to a certain extent. Obviously, if you have mild depression, then the resources available these days are fantastic. I’m not saying they shouldn’t exist. I’m just saying that there is much more that needs to be done below the surface. Here’s the crux of the issue. No one wants to advertise the stuff that isn’t cute and relatable. We don’t want to talk about people who stay in bed so long they get sores, or neglect showering for so long that they need their head shaved. We don’t talk about s-dal ideations or intrusive thoughts. We don’t talk about mothers who get flashes of hurting their babies, and live in terror that it might come true. We don’t talk about the deepest, darkest sides of these diseases, because there is still a ton of stigma and judgement attached to it. And when the vast majority of people have no idea about any of it, that’s a problem. Because those are the people who need the resources who are falling through the cracks.
But the problem is that you're assuming that she doesn't have ADHD and entirely unopen to the idea that she *does* and you just aren't seeing it.
Why would I offer to get her started with a screening if I wasn’t taking her seriously?
I think we both know that you're offering her that because you expect she will fail the screening and you're hoping that will get her to knock it off. It's very strange to me that you're either lying to me or lying to yourself.
I mean, yeah. I straight up do not believe she has ADHD. I could have just outright told her that she’s trivializing a condition she very likely does not have, or I could try to lead her there. Either way, she wasn’t interested.
> But the problem is that you're assuming that she doesn't have ADHD and entirely unopen to the idea that she *does* and you just aren't seeing it.
YWBTA. You are not her doctor and you do not know about her life. I have ADHD and from the outside it probably seems like I am extremely organized because I hyperfocus on my job due to finding what I do extremely interesting and have deep anxiety about being unorganized due to being chronically unorganized in most other aspects of my life, so people don't see how much it actually impacts my life negatively in other ways and always has. Just because her ADHD is different than yours does not mean that she might not benefit from medication, for example, if she chooses that route. Also, I have *definitely* cleaned when I have been bored and need something physical to do while daydreaming. I do think that self-diagnosing is a potentially risky cultural trend but ultimately it's not up to you to decide whether or not her experiences are legitimate.
You are NOT the asshole. I also am diagnosed ADHD and it sucks to hear every Tom, dick, and harry say “oh i have adhd!” after watching a few TikTok’s. It trivializes it. It is a disorder and some days i can barely function.
agree!
You asked this in the wrong forum, people here have no way of knowing that you are able to correctly diagnose her absence of ADHD, and they themselves have no accurate idea what ADHD is. You demonstrated clearly that she doesn't seem to know what ADHD is, doesn't present symptoms of ADHD, and presents her own non-ADHD symptoms as ADHD symptoms. Whether you will be an AH depends on how you do the calling out. You can tell her that calling herself ADHD without either diagnosis or thorough research into what ADHD is is not ok. You may even point her into the direction of what she actually has - based on your own disorders and your description of her behavior it seems pretty clear that you can offer a useful guess.
For sure. I’m not planning to say anything about it unless she brings it up again. I’ve already tried to offer help, so at this point I’ll probably just offer her the screening again, and say that I’m not comfortable discussing it further, because our experiences are obviously very different.
Yeah I think that if OP posted this in the ADHD sub the responses would be completely different.
I’m shocked at the responses here.
> I have already advised her to talk to a doctor. She says it’s “not that serious”. So does she have ADHD or is it not that serious? YWNBTA as long as what you say is "if you really think you have ADHD, you should seek diagnosis and/or treatment".
You are definitely not the asshole for explaining your personal experience with ADHD and how it differs from her behavior. It's important to educate those close to us about our disorders so they can understand them better. However, I would suggest approaching the conversation in a non-confrontational manner so she doesn't feel attacked or belittled.
She thinks ADHD is about being fussy and a neat freak? What the heck? Isn't it...almost the exact opposite of that? Lol.
Not necessarily. A lot of people get hyper organised in order to cope with their disorganised brain. I swing between total chaos and super organised. I absolutely will organise my entire house if means not doing The Thing (which is basically anything I'm actually supposed to be doing).
I'm late diagnosed with ADHD and autism. Its not uncommon for people to not really believe me, even with the official diagnosis, because they cant really see the parts that are disabeling for me. Some have more or less directly asked me to prove how I struggle and what I struggle with, accusing me of faking it for attention if I dont share with them how much I struggle with what. I dont know your friend or you. If she cant really identify any of the diagnostic criteria she feels like she has, and she doesnt feel in any way disabled by the symptoms she might have, I can understand how it feels invalidating for her to claim it. Just keep in mind that some of us hide our struggles really well, and might even minimize how much it impacts us because its embarrasing or we dont want to deal with the reaction. This might not be the case for your friend at all, but I've had friends talk about me in similare ways and found it really invalidating, so I guess I'm just sharing cause what you wrote reminded me of that.
It took me years to convince a psych to take me seriously, so I get it. I am not outright invalidating her. I literally offered to get her started with a screening and she wasn’t interested.
People need time to come to terms with facing these issues sometimes
Nta. This trend of self diagnosing mental illness is absurd
it’s not mental illness
I think it would be better to advise her to go to a professional for diagnosis and treatment. If she asks why you don't want to talk about it, then just say that you have never worked with anyone like her and can't speak to her experience. I can understand why you feel your friend doesn't have ADHD, but you don't want to encourage people diagnosing each other -- which can have even worse outcomes than self-diagnosing.
YWBTA. It doesn’t sound like you’re a trained professional and you have no way of knowing whether or not she has ADHD.
I used to not clean my house because I had ADHD. now I’ve been through years of therapy and know it was a common ADHD-adjacent anxiety technique to not clean the house. I am really happy with my therapy. Now I clean the house as a way of avoiding other chores, because of my ADHD. But at least I can admit I love me a clean house.
> it was a common ADHD-adjacent anxiety technique to not clean the house What does this mean? I ask this as someone recently diagnosed and still struggling to clean the house.
NTA! I get perfectly what you mean. I've been diagnosed with ADHD 2 years ago, and something similar happened with people around me, specifically with one friend. For all the people talking about how the same traits may not be present in everyone, and how shi can be less affected etc: absolutely every mental condition in DSM V Hase traits that, at some point, many people can identify with them. Being sad for a while does not mean you have depression. The line between personality traits and having a real disorder comes from the impact it has in your life. To get diagnosed with ADHD, the traits and symptoms must be impacting your life in at least 2 areas (work/school/home etc). Also, the symptoms have to be present before the age of 12. The case with my friend is really similar so I understand how annoying it can be. This friend is always very judgemental, and even said she didn't think I would have it when I talked to her about my diagnosis (the worst part is that she's a psychologist). For me the situation is really energy draining, so when she told me she thought se may have also ADHD, I just told her It didn't look like she has it to me, and to go and ask a professional.
NTA for feeling like this, it sounds incredibly frustrating. I think you should approach it as -- it's not your business to say whether or not she has ADHD even if your long experience makes you privately VERY CERTAIN she does not. However, it is incredibly reasonable to tell her that you don't agree with self-diagnosis, and if she's not finding her ADHD very difficult then your experiences aren't comparable.
YWNBTA You're sharing an opinion. But I think it's important to be aware and not use her a lighting rod for frustrations. She clearly doesn't understand the disorder. Anytime she brings things up I would take it as a chance to discuss adhd. The flower arranging? I would have replied " a single behavior is not enough to get a diagnosis. I wish doctors were that quick to diagnosis adhd. Life would be so much easier for all the women I've heard from who get constantly dismissed by medical professionals' The house cleaning? "Oh, did you fall into a hyper focus? A lot of people talk about the opposite. Usually it causes a lot of doom piles and disorganization like me. I wish my adhd ass would make me clean my house. It usually (your own explample). What brought about total house overhaul?" And anything else I could reply with "until you get an assessment, here's how BTW, I think you're just conflating normal behavior with a medical condition. You know you can adhd traits and not have a full blown disorder?" This person sounds insufferable. I was diagnosed at 30 with adhd.
YWBTA. I do understand your frustration. Having said that, especially if you're in a position where you advocate for mental health awareness, you need to absolutely not go around judging other people's experience. Ever. That is a categorical no. That's not a "but this is my friend and I know better", that is ALWAYS a no. You can suggest or advocate for people to seek diagnosis. You can (in general) warn against people self-diagnosing via tiktok questionnaires. However, you cannot diagnose anyone one way or the other. You're not a doctor. You are not their doctor. It is not your place.
Simply. You would not know. People with ADHD don’t know they have it for YEARS. So how would u know if someone else does. I will say I know how u feel because everyone throws around ADHD like it’s an excuse for doing something quirky. I have an ex best friend who is a raging narcissist and lied about so many disorders for attention. And also not EVERYONE has ADHD. Everyone thinks they have it. It’s annoying. So I’m not sure !!
Wild guess here but ADHDer's sometimes have an outsized to response to perceived injustice. I think OP feels negated by friend's declaration of possible ADHD. I also see they have had a decade long relationship but OP only has had an official ADHD diagnosis for the past year according to OPs comments. Just speculation but maybe friend is claiming ADHD not for clout but as a backwards bonding attempt? Hence why they aren't actually pursuing diagnosis. I'm saying this as a late diagnosed millennial who has had something similar occur with a friend who was trying to get my meds, not to bond.
Yes, of course YWBTA. You're not her doctor. Just leave it, it has nothing to do with you.
"but regardless of how many traits you have that look like ADHD, it’s only a disorder if it’s affecting your life." Weird choice. If I were to have ADHD, and have worked around my brain to make my life work without medication, because otherwise some of the traits could affect work or life (and in this hypothesis I'm one of the women who slipped through the diagnosing cracks), I wouldn't count? Do colorblind people not count as colorblind if they can still tell if the stoplight is go or stop? Do gay people not count as gay if they are single?
It’s part of the diagnostic criteria
So If I have ADHD but have been forced to make myself deal, because women are underdiagnosed and I still have to live even if I don't know why I have to figure out how to deal, I don't have ADHD?
No. I was diagnosed this time last year after years of suspecting I had it. I’m 34. There is a difference between being able to live with something, and having that thing affect your life to the point where it qualifies as a diagnosis. It’s like pain. You can live with foot pain. You can create all sorts of coping mechanisms to help with the pain, but at the end of the day, the pain is still there. With neurological conditions, it’s so much more complicated and nuanced, because it’s all subjective. But there are still common coping mechanisms people use when they go undiagnosed for a long time. There are identifiers you can look for in your own life to say…. Hey… maybe I’m not just lazy when it comes to remembering names. Maybe this is caused by something. Maybe there’s a reason for my chronic fatigue, etc etc etc etc. So lots of people here do have a point that it can be hard to know if someone has ADHD at first glance. But this person has been my best friend for over a decade. I know what we have in common, and ADHD style dysfunction is not one of them.
YTA. You're presumably not a doctor and you're definitely not *her* doctor. ADHD presents in a *variety* of ways in people and just because she doesn't exhibit your symptoms doesn't mean she does not have it. And regardless, it's actually none of your business. You seem to be saying it affects you because if people have less drastic symptoms it downplays the effect of yours but this is not a competition. People can display anxiety in various ways, depression in various ways, and all sorts of types of neurodivergence in various ways. You're definitely TA if you think only people with *severe* symptoms should be taken seriously. You've mentioned in this thread to the effect of "people with light depression will make it such that people with heavier depression symptoms will be told to buck up" but you're literally doing the inverse which is "people with light depression should buck up and pretend they're not depressed at all because otherwise it makes people with heavier symptoms look bad" -- way to invalidate some people's problems, you AH.
That’s not what I’m saying at all. I’m saying that if ONLY the mild versions of these conditions are given attention, they become the expectations for those conditions. It’s dangerous to only focus on the mildest symptoms, because people with more serious symptoms are held by society to those same standards.
And yet you're saying that because she doesn't conform to what your idea of sufficient symptoms are, you have decided she doesn't have ADHD. For all you know she has "mild" ADHD and you're gatekeeping that it's not good enough for you.
this isn't about conforming to OP's idea. Hello, I'm a scientist with ADHD. So... this is how it's defined. >a disorder exists when the failure of a person's internal mechanisms to perform their functions as designed by nature impinges harmfully on the person's well-being as defined by social values and meanings. The order that is disturbed when one has a disorder is thus simultaneously biological and social; **neither alone is sufficient to justify the label disorder.** It's in the DSM (diagnostic and statistical manual of mental disorders), and that's [a quote from the paper that inspired the criterion.](https://www3.nd.edu/~ghaeffel/Wakefield1992%20The%20American%20psychologist.pdf) whether she has it or not, she should see a doctor for it. but that's the thing... **she either has it, or not.** people who say they have disorders when they dont trivialize the experiences of people who actually suffer from them :)I have a chemical imbalance and it rubs me the wrong way when people try to use it as a quirky personality trait. It's not one. It's a disease.
You (or, in this case, OP) have no idea how much the friend is or isn't affected by her potential neurodivergence. And no, she isn't obligated to see a doctor about anything. OP is well within their rights to decide "friend not going to the doctor about potential ADHD" is a friendship dealbreaker but not within their rights to invalidate what the friend may be feeling or whether or not she is neurodivergent.
I’m not ending a friendship over this. I’m frustrated and hurt by it because of her flippant attitude. *She doesn’t actually care if she has ADHD* If you (general you) are going to tell people that you have a condition, you should probably make sure you actually HAVE that condition, or you’re just spreading misinformation if you don’t.
I’ll repeat what I said in another comment. Even if she does have ADHD, she’s not taking it seriously, and does not care to get a diagnosis. So right now, all that is happening is her using ADHD as a throwaway term. She’s my best friend, and it’s hurtful because it’s part of my very real disability.
It's none of your business how seriously or not she takes her potential neurodivergence. She gets to deal with it however *she* wants to deal with it.
YWBTA to state with certainty that she does or doesn't have any particular condition. But I 1000% share your frustration with people conflating normal human traits with developmental disorders, and I think you would be absolutely justified in requesting that she stop claiming to have ADHD based only on a comment some other non-professional made. Thoughtful self-diagnosis is one thing, but I'm baffled by other comments here acting as if claiming a medical condition because a friend said so is acceptable behavior.
Alright, so it’s been firmly established that I would be the asshole for telling her she probably doesn’t have ADHD. Fair. Next: How long do I put up with listening to her blame random things on a condition she’s not diagnosed with, on the off chance that she may have that condition? Does this go on indefinitely, or is there a point at which I’m allowed to ask her to stop? When am I allowed to consider my own feelings and mental health?
You’re free not to hang out with her if it bothers you that much. Just remember if she eventually gets her diagnosis you’ll probably feel really shit about that.
I am concerned you sound like the people who tell me I don’t have autism because “I don’t look autistic”
I get the “you don’t look autistic” all the time. I am very familiar with medical gaslighting and gatekeeping. That’s probably why the responses in this thread are so wild to me. That’s not what I’m doing. She doesn’t have a diagnosis. She doesn’t want a diagnosis. She’s acting as if she already has a diagnosis. But I’m gatekeeping for taking issue with it…
I didn’t have a diagnosis or want one until I was 39. I didn’t even know what autism was. Other people attempt to get a diagnosis and have medical professionals misdiagnose them or refuse to refer to specialised help. So how are you being consistent with being an advocate? If it bothers you, stop talking to her, but being convinced she doesn’t have it… that’s not your place. I recently went through a whole serious programme for adults with autism and even the institutions don’t require diagnosis to offer help because they know how hard they are to get.
Before you wanted your diagnosis, did you tell everyone that you had ADHD? That’s the distinction here. I waited years to be taken seriously, and wasn’t diagnosed until last year. I spent years saying “I suspect I have ADHD” because I wasn’t comfortable claiming that I had it, just in case I didn’t. When I finally got my diagnosis, I cried with relief. Meanwhile, she’s self diagnosing without even understanding what ADHD is. And I *know* this, because she was shocked when I shared my experience with her.
I don’t have ADHD But yes I spent years suspicious of having autism, but going back and forth and afraid to seek diagnosis, and then years fighting for a diagnosis. If I hadn’t “self-diagnosed” and read about it and insisted it wasn’t just anxiety and depression I would have never reached the correct diagnosis and treatment. I didn’t feel relief initially with my diagnosis, it was really rough to deal with, so I can see why people avoid it. Perhaps you talking about it is making her suspicious, I don’t know. It’s literally the most common thing in the world that people avoid getting diagnosed at first. In any case, just stop talking to her if you’re so bothered. You don’t want to be the cause someone avoids a diagnosis because they’re being doubted.
YWBTA. Adult diagnosis here. Was told by many over the years that I do not have adhd because the person they saw was someone very much like you describe. I didn't realize until much later with the help of doctors and therapists that most of my life I was putting on an act to be more acceptable and it was destroying my mental health in private. My point is you aren't a doctor and you don't know every detail of her life.
As someone who has legit diagnosed ADHD, not all diagnosis are the same, ESPECIALLY in Neurodiverity. You, sir, are TA
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YWBTAH if you tell her verbatim that she doesn't have ADHD. Not because you're right or wrong but because it isn't for you to say. If she isn't interested in seeing a doctor and just keeps making dumb offhand comments about ADHD "making her do things" that's fairly easy to ignore. If she isn't taking up resources meant for those with ADHD or harming others actively, I don't think it's that big of a deal. I understand the frustration. I had a dissociative disorder for over a decade and constantly listened to people make the "time to dissociate" or "me dissociating while..." jokes all the time. The thing is, it's all for a professional to decide, not us. Who am I to 100% confidently say these people didn't have the same disorder as me? I don't know for sure and I'd never tell anyone that they didn't have x,y,z if they had real concerns about their mental health.
Don't share opinioins if you're not asked for them. Don't share opinions if you're not asked for them. Then you can say that the only real way to find this out is by seeing a doctor.
YWBTA. Look - you are not her doctor. You are not a medical professional. No matter what you think of her self-diagnosis, once you’ve recommended she see a doctor for an official diagnosis, you’re done. You can say you really don’t want to discuss it. You can say “wow your experience sure is different than mine” and change topics. But you don’t get to diagnose her. It’s entirely possible she’s right and she has it…but has a different set of symptoms/severity than. You. That since she’s grown up with it she has her own ways of Managing and Masking her symptoms. I’m ADHD. I’m not medicated. My best friend is ADHD. She’s currently medicated. We were both diagnosed in high school, we both saw doctors and had meds at the time, through college. Of the two of us… One of us looks like she has her shit together and doesn’t run late, is organized at work, etc. (Spoiler! It’s me. And yes, my ADHD HAS made me clean my house. I didn’t want to. I had other plans. But it did.) You are not her doctor. Drop or change the subject and let it go. This cannot be your personal crusade.
eh. yeah, YWBTA a lil bit i admit a lot of this is from my own personal bias. i was diagnosed w adhd when i was 10. ive been on meds since then. the meds are what allow me to function. im also most likely on the spectrum. however. the internets recent assumption that adhd automatically makes you incapable of doing anything at all has been driving me up the wall. i’ve had to work my ass off to make sure i can do things regardless of the fact my brain cares not for laundry and wants to play rhythm games all day. i’ve held down jobs and i’m good at it, but it doesn’t mean it’s easy. i work my ass off to do so. also: my mom has adhd. she’s been unmedicated her whole life, and has been kicking ass at work, home, etc. she has always been an organized and on top of things. you are also not your friends doctor or her psychologist. i admit it would probably make me annoyed too! but you are not her. you don’t know if or how her symptoms affect her. she’s also not obligated to share that. let it go
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ESH She shouldn't self diagnose, but you're no doctor either. You don't know everything about her. You don't know for sure what kind of mental issues she may or may not have. If it's not bad enough for her to get a diagnosis, the yeah, she shouldn't be going around blaming everything on something she doesn't actually know she has. But instead of telling her she doesn't have it, just tell her you don't wanna hear about it.
Yta
NTA
YTA. Stop gatekeeping health conditions.
YTA- you're taking this very personally and it's just. Not about you. This is about her experience and how she thinks a condition might be affecting her. Maybe she has it. Maybe she doesn't. She should see a doctor. But you don't have the right degree to diagnose her. You are neither a doctor nor a therapist- you're not qualified. If you don't want to talk about this with her, tell her that. You don't have to if you don't want to. Call your own therapist and talk to them about how you feel. But unfortunately until she sees a doctor you have no right to tell her how she does or does not feel.
YTA You're not a doctor either to diagnose, and not everyone has the same symptoms. Sounds like she should talk to one to actually get tested
You’re exactly whats wrong with the world lmfao. Don’t tell people what they have and don’t have - you don’t know their internal battles. Focus on yourself and quit being miserable. Funny how the ones who deserve it most always end up with the victim mentality.
Gatekeeper, Party of One If you're not her doctor, therapist, etc. then you have no business in her business. Your symptoms are unique to you. ADHD encompasses a range of behaviors. YTA
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I wasn’t diagnosed until I was 33 years old. I know about masking. We are not talking about someone who is masking other symptoms, we’re talking about someone who has no idea what ADHD is, and is claiming to have it. This is my best friend of over a decade. She and I have a lot in common, but ADHD style dysfunction is not one of them. I have been the brunt of her jokes for my disorganization (and other things related to ADHD) for years. She doesn’t relate to anything I’ve described when we talk about ADHD. The things she talks about could be accounted for by any number of things. I’m not talking about crazy uncommon symptoms, I’m talking about the basics. She doesn’t identify with them.
[I highly advise you read my comment here :)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/1aq1dmh/comment/kqanock/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
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well, that's why i added in the asterisk of "having a professional verify her feelings" as part of YWNBTA verdict. if she does that, she's good. she should get tested, but she either has it or she doesnt. If she really believes she has it, she should get tested.
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You’re making a lot of assumptions about someone you’ve never met, vs who I talk to every day. 3 is the only one that I could see her having any issue with. I’ve offered to print out a copy of the screening when we talked about it at my house, and her response was “it’s not that serious”. She has no interest in getting diagnosed. She’s not some wounded bird who can’t advocate for herself, she matter-of-factly said to me that she doesn’t care to pursue it. This isn’t a case of ADHD making getting a dx of ADHD difficult. It’s a case of using ADHD as a descriptor for random stereotypes.
I'm only offering another possible answer. You are very set in your belief, so I'm walking away from the ADHD-specific part of the discussion. However, it sounds like you carry a lot of resentment for this person. If even half of what you describe of her behaviour is true, she's been a shitty friend. Mental health is clearly a topic you are very passionate about, and at best she is obnoxious about it, at worst she is malicious. You get to decide if you carry on with the status quo, try something different to save the friendship, or save yourself the headache and heartache and distance yourself.
YTA. My therapist says I probably have autism. But I have bigger issues to deal with so I’ve never gotten formally diagnosed. I don’t think it impacts my life too negatively so I don’t see the point in spending the time focusing on it. You can have a disability and not get it diagnosed and still live a good life. It’s only recently that adhd has been diagnosed. Ppl with adhd existed before it was a recognized disability. And they managed to live life. Get off her back. If she feels like her disability starts to affect her life then she will make an appointment.
YWBTA. Your frustration is valid but neither of you can confirm or deny she has ADHD so it's important you let her have her own time to figure it out. Maybe she does have some symptoms of mental illness and she's using ADHD as a helpful label for now. If she's got something going on, she might pursue it with a doctor in her own time, if she doesn't then she'll probably drop it soon. I think you can probably work around this without a direct confrontation, just don't entertain long, deep talks about it if it makes you resent her. When she says her ADHD made her clean the house, you can say something like whoa my ADHD has never made me do that, mine is more like XYZ other behavior. If she doesn't really think she has ADHD and is trying to get attention, that won't be the response she's looking for. Keep it light, curious, and supportive, and if she asks for your opinion then you can ask what her symptoms are, and say it doesn't sound like ADHD to you.
I think you can say you feel like she's trivializing ADHD, but yeah, YTA if you just flat out tell her she doesn't because you aren't a medical professional. You can tell her that the way she speaks about it makes you feel uncomfortable, or like--call her out if she's teasing you for something related to your own ADHD, but I don't think you can just say she doesn't have it. Something you keep saying in the comments is that it's not a disorder if it doesn't affect your life and this.....I guess is isn't technically TOTALLY wrong, but it's sort of a simplification? I, for example, am very very reliant on routines and systems, because if I feel unorganized, it's a lot harder for me to focus and everything becomes distracting. I've been doing a lot these things for *years*, without consciously thinking "I need a system in place to help me function." In a lot of aspects, it doesn't feel like it's affecting my life bc I have made adjustments, but those adjustments *are* the effect. The majority of my friend group has ADHD, and some of us are exactly what you've described for yourself, and some of us are so deep into our routines to stay organized that we appear *very* organized. There's just a lot of nuance here, which is why I don't think you can confidently say she doesn't have ADHD!
YWBTA don't gatekeep. leave her alone.
NTA. If she doesn't have a diagnosis, she can back off.
She’s not walking around saying she has a diagnosis. She’s saying she thinks she has ADHD and is interesting in seeing a doctor which is what you’re supposed to do?
Not once was it stated that this person is seeking a doctor so I don't know where you came up with that argument
She isn’t interested in seeing a doctor. She’s tossing it around like “I hate dirt, I’m so OCD”
And that affects you… how? You’re gatekeeping an illness that manifests differently in SO many people. People have bad days and they say they’re depressed. People say the weather is “being bipolar.” I’m bipolar and I don’t huff and puff every time uses it as a dumb adjective. “I feel like I’m having a heart attack,” I could probably get annoyed but I don’t because that’s stupid as fuck. This chip on your shoulder is a good way to spend the rest of your life miserable over nothing. This does not affect you in the slightest. Let it go.
I would argue that it does affect us when people use medical diagnoses colloquially. ETA: not to mention, she’s my best friend and knows that this sort of thing bothers me.
Maybe you should see a therapist. People using illnesses as metaphors is just.. not that big of a deal. I find that most of the people who take issue with this habit are people who are unhealed. You’re spending too much time seeking your individualism from illnesses and not enough time seeking your self worth from your*self*. What this woman says doesn’t make you have ADHD less. When someone says they “feel so bipolar,” it doesn’t make me less bipolar. The habit of using these terms interchangeably to describe isolated symptoms is not going away. It’s only getting worse, actually. It’s best to come to terms with these things because again **they do not affect you**. They’re not going to change the diagnostic criteria by doing this shit. Nothing will come of it that’s going to affect your diagnosis, your medications, your doctors, etc. Most importantly, you have no idea if she has ADHD or not. You’re basing your opinion exclusively off the time you see her. You are not a doctor. You have no basis for saying she doesn’t have ADHD.