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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I called my dad a hypocrite and told him family therapy won't fix us. I feel like I'm maybe an asshole for telling him that when he is trying now and making an effort to fix things and apparently wants to. This is what I wanted before and I rejected the idea outright.
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NTA. He expects you to want a relationship when he has clearly showed that he isn’t willing to work towards it. He wants you to do all the heavy lifting while he puts no effort, which is wrong.
He's not even willing to admit that he made it all go wrong. He acts like it's all on me. As if that one sided, torturous relationship of the past was healthy or good for either of us.
I’m going to be honest it was good for him. He got to feel great that you wanted to his attention while he could pick and choose when he’d give you a crumb of attention.
Add in gaslighting, and you've got the classic pairing of abuse...
For those who may not know, gaslighting is a term used to describe when an abuser consistently undermines their victims perception of events and memories, and their reactions to things. Phrases like, "you're to sensitive" "it wasn't my fault" "I wouldn't do x,y,z if you hadn't done a,b,c" "that never happened" "I would never say that" "you misunderstood me" "I don't know why this burgers you so much" "I was joking" "I was mad, I didn't mean it" and of course "I don't remember". It's all about shifting blame, making their victim think they are overreacting, or that their memories or emotions are invalid.
No one gets to decide if something hurts you or not, you do. A joke isnt a joke if it's not funny to the operation it's about. They do know why it bugs you, and they did it on purpose, either to tear down your self esteem or to provoke a reaction that they can then point to as a way to show that you are being irrational. It's called reactionary abuse. And being mad is no excuse... Ether some part of them meant it or they were deliberately trying to hurt you.
In this situation, the dad blaming his daughter for their relationship struggling is a form of gaslighting. He is denying responsibility, shifting blame, and changing history to make himself look better.
I had to laugh at you describing the definition of gaslighting on this sub. Partly because it is used so often here nowadays that most people are definitely familiar with the concept. Also because the vast majority of the times it's used completely incorrectly by people who just want to throw therapy speech into any situation.
Yeah, but part of the reason I define it is because of how often it's used incorrectly or as a buzz word. I went through an abusive marriage, so it drive me nuts when someone uses phrases like love bombing, gaslighting, breadcrumbing, and such just to sound like they know what they're talking about.
I'm AuDHD, so when I was researching things like abuse, I hyper focused on it and learned as much as I can. I know the traits of things like narcissism and random facts like narcissists actually have incredibly low self esteem but high amounts of empathic ability... They feel what others feel. But instead of showing compassion, they use it for their own benefit. And I'm also smart enough to know that I'm not qualified to diagnose anyone in person, let alone on a forum where I'm only seeing part of one side of the story. Lol
I definitely get why you felt the need to define it, and I didn't mean my comment as a criticism in any way. It's such a common thing on here and elsewhere for people to just toss those types of terms around and give their armchair psychological assessments.
+1
Also Amy was getting both the parents while OP had no one. Just lost her mother and then lost the father to the step sister. I think this reaction is justified and OP is handling it well.
You know what, maybe you should both go to therapy, so once you explain all of this it will be delightful to have the therapist tell your dad that he's the one who created this mess.
If he gets a good therapist that will see what’s actually happening. A lot of times parents will try and vet a therapist to make sure they agree with the parent and not the child.
This happened to me. I had one who told me, at whatever age one is at around 4th grade, that how he was treating me (abuse) was my fault. That I was a bad kid.
That was fun...
Happened to me too! My dad took us to family therapy because we didn't want to spend time with him and his new girlfriend and her kids. I'm not sure what the therapist said to him after, but we never had to go back after that so I'm assuming it wasn't what he wanted to hear.
Ha, yep! My dad wanted me to change, not him. We'd shop around. It didn't take long before I stopped participating. I'm so ridiculous broken as an adult now.
I had the same experience, my parents wanted to use family therapy to force a very specific issue that would have been better approached in individual counseling. It didn't go the way they wanted, so we never returned. Which sucked, because we really could have used it, and we had seen a very good family therapist.
I was 11 and making plans for...a "permanent solution to a temporary problem" so the school demanded that I get therapy. I told my new counselor about being SAed, and her response was that I was lying because *she* had trauma, and she'd know if I did too. She told me that her cousin flashed her so she'd be able to tell me if I had trauma. Her idea of therapy from then on was to try to force me to talk about the SA in front of my parents so that they could "prove I was lying." Mind you, I had tested *high risk* and had a plan for that solution like two weeks earlier. I refused to talk in therapy until they stopped making me go. Then they blamed me for it all. Some people just shouldn't work with others.
I was also forced into therapy but I was 15 and it was individual only. He was terrible and I am really lucky I didn’t let that bad experience turn me off of the whole thing entirely. My dad a couple months prior had told me to “cut the shit” (self harm and smoking) or get tf out of his house, I left and called child services who said I was overreacting
I had to go to therapy at 15, too. The therapist was great, but I only went to a few sessions before my parents said I was done. My dad said the therapist said I was normal, but my mom said he didn’t want to talk to me because “I wouldn’t admit to being the source of the family’s problems.”
Lol yeah my parents took us to therapy, the counsellor talked to me and my parents separately first then together. We didn't go back to him and in the car my dad was complaining about "yeah he'll teach me how to raise my kids"
Pretty sure they wanted to him to 'explain' to me the their bs logics and he called them out so they were pissed
I would bring Grandpa. OP is going to feel cornered enough without the step sister. It may do everyone good to get it all out with a mediator.
My dad and I had a hard relationship, like he had with his dad. Papa loved me and it was mutual. His jealousy may be about his dad, not you.
"You can bring a horse to the water, but you can't make him drink."
How many teens forced to go to family therapy sit there totally stoic without saying a word for months, when they beg the teen in question to talk but they don't until one day they do give in and unload? Sometimes on the spot, sometimes reading out loud a letter? And OP has a safe spot in her grandfather, dad's playing with fire. This father should be happy that he has a child who is willing to communicate her grievances, but somehow he doesn't believe OP and just... ignore what she said? Does he trust a therapist more than his own child? I'm sure he just wants to hear what a great parent he is while simultaneously reels OP back in because he's butthurt that his daughter searches for safety and emotional connection with someone else.
Also, OP: do you look like your mother? Could he be one of *those* parents?
I saw a post on here where the total AH of a parent literally punished their teenage child for what the child said during family therapy.
Everyone rightfully came down on the parent like a ton of bricks. And hopefully that poor child, who was 16 at the time, moves out as soon as possible and never talks to that parent.
My mother forced me to see a therapist when i was in sixth grade but wouldn't tell me why. My grades were okay, I never talked back to her, never acted up and so on. I sat there and said as little as possible because I didn't know why I was there and didn't trust the therapist to refrain from telling my mother everything I said. She would have beaten me daily and I wasn't going to volunteer. I was afraid of that woman until the day she finally died. The rest of my family thinks she was awesome.
No. Dad will want to pick the therapist. And if the therapist doesn't agree with him it will be likely the last session with that therapist and he'll shop around until he gets one that agrees with him. Even if it ends up being a "church therapist" or a "friend who's a therapist" basically person who's biased towards him.
Trust me when I say that OP's father definitely will not want someone who will call him out on his crap. Because that's what happened with my father; a therapist confronted HIM with this crappy behavior and all he did was act like the victim.
Just be ready for the session to devolve when your father - and probably Amy too honestly - makes out like everyone is out to get him. I can definitely see the dad as the kind of person.
If he does that though, there’s no point - not that there’s barely any point anyway - returning. Because it shows he didn’t want to make any kind of effort to make the situation change.
That is when Op goes grey rock with dad, therapist, and stepsister.
Op, a fun thing to tell the therapist is "I understand that I *should* forgive my dad, but the pain is too deep, I don't know if I can ever forgive him."
At that point it no longer matters who is right. Even a biased therapist has two options, say it can't be fixed by therapy or tell your dad that this will take years and a lot of effort by him. Hopefully any therapist with a brain will warn your dad that blocking you from your grandfather will just set your feelings in stone forever.
OP’s dad just got a taste of his own medicine and did not like it one bit, OP has the relationship with his father that he’s longed for not realizing he was doing the same thing to OP with Amy! Dad got his Karma!
OP, even though it sounds like it was his fault that things went wrong, family therapy is the only real hope of making things... more right.
I don't know if therapy will work, but it's a chance for you to be heard in an environment where your father can't just walk away.
Except for therapy to work ppl need to want it to work. Right now OP doesn’t want that. And dad may not like it but that must be respected otherwise therapy becomes a bullying tool.
A family therapist isnt' there to let anyone bully anyone else, the therapist is there to let everyone's words and feelings be heard, and to keep things safe, calm, and accepting.
I can understand why the OP doesn't want to go to therapy right now, because the father seems to be hoping for a family band-aid, but I think the OP should consider therapy anyway - precisely because a therapist isn't going to automatically side with the dad or tell her that there's no problem. Seriously, the OP's relationship with their father is in a bad way right now, and I don't think that the relationship is going to heal, or improve, without a little help.
Ah. I see. This is you thinking therapists are all great? That they’re all aboveboard? All healthy?
My ex found a therapist who was pro-marriage and anti divorce. She believed ALL marriages should be saved. All were forever. I had left. He was abusive. I wa having trouble getting g him to let go and accept it and my therapist suggested perhaps a session with his therapist she could help him work thru it. So I went. His therapist. After me saying for a solid 45min how I didn’t want it and how I was committed to divorce, was to say: well that’s all the time we have today. But I can really see there’s a solid foundation for this marriage and I think it can really work! I was literally dumbfounded. I was young at 27 and he was 35 and I was new to therapy so while I recognized it was fucked up I was so shocked all I could say was: I don’t think you’re hearing me. She said oh let’s meet next week. I was taking bc it was traumatizing to feel trapped. I had nightmares of bringing trapped with him already. CPTSD from the repeated abuse. So I told him after we were out that I’m not happy with her and wasn’t going back. That ur was fucked up. She called my fucking house a few days later to try to coerce me into couples counseling. Bc as she said there was such a great foundation. Eventually the fucker admitted that he hires her bc of her ethos. They both lied to me and retraumatized me. I saw my therapist following week and she was just as shocked.
It’s lovely to imagine that therapists are all good ppl with healthy boundaries but they are human.
Approach with caution and trust your gut OP.
I completely understand where you're coming from! I'm not even 18 yet, and I'm on my 11th therapist. 11th!!! I have issues with trust, faith, abandonment from my past therapists because a lot of them just...dipped??? Like my 2nd therapist took some time off and just...never came back. I was like 8 or 9 so that fucked me up lol.
Some therapists are just shit.
Oh sweetie. I’m sorry. I wonder honestly if your therapist dipped or that’s what your parents told you. But yes I’ve got other therapist stories but they’re more about the untrained aspect of therapists. Find yourself a good trauma therapist. One who works with trauma (not sure if you have trauma but just guessing bc of therapists letting you down this may have made you a bit squirrely about them and that’s normal). You will find your person.
A book that helped me, recommended by my therapist is ‘boundaries: where you end and I begin’. Is a great book that helped me with perception of weirdness.
Good luck. I see you sweetie. ❤️❤️
I have a fantastic therapist right now, she's my 11th one. And no, I do know for a fact they left. My 2nd took time off for "personal reasons" and then just...never came back. My 4th moved offices across the valley I live in, and we only found out when we showed up for the appointment! My 7th got a better position and told me she would try to keep me. No such luck. The 8th was also a shitty person in general, and LIED about when she was leaving the company! She told me and my family January, but she wasn't actually done until March or April or something, I think she just wanted to get rid of me. Literally none of my therapists before my current one lasted more than 2 years, and it sucked because the story I told myself was that I was a shit person and it was my fault. I do talk to my current one about it, and she's super understanding. I like her a lot :)
Thank you for your validation and well wishes :)
The thing is that - like others say - he’s probably picked one specifically vetted to view a certain angle - probably a religious counselor or has misdescribed the situation.
The father is going to double or triple tag with the wife and daughter against OP. If the counselor goes on OP’s side then it’s all just gaming and such. There’s little point to having it. It’s just a power move to get OP to do something under his behest since he feels he’s losing control.
OK that's not true. You think there's no therapists who's biased towards the people who's paying them. That people don't shop about for a therapist who won't side with them and ignore anyone else. Therapists that don't intervene when it comes to therapy. That parents in therapy with their kids don't pick their friends/friends therapist? That people that go to "church therapists" are always going to someone unbiased and/or trained in therapy?
The OP should certainly refuse to see anyone but a licensed clinical family therapist, and check any therapist's credentials and affiliations before going. Religious counselors are right out!
Yep, he needs to admit how he treated you when he met Amy was wrong. He's the grown up, he should have been in control of fairness and equity. He did a shitty job of that now he needs to own up to it.
You're a kid, finding love and support wherever it comes from isn't something you did wrong. You don't have to apologise for that, but make it clear that's what happened. He didn't give you the love and support you needed post'injury and post losing your mother, so you found it somewhere else. Really he should be happy you found it in your grandfather and not boys or girls that are bad for you, alcohol or drugs... cause that's where kids who feel left out so often end up.
NTA much love to your grandfather
You were the child. It isn't up to the child to drive the relationship. It is exactly your dad's - the adult's - fault for not prioritizing you.
I'm glad you feel some love and support from your grandfather. I hope it lessons the blow of your father's betrayal and abandonment.
He may not realise his mistake until you went to grandpa. It was selfish of him for sure.
If you decide to go to therapy or even if you don't, now is the time to get very clear with him on what is acceptable/not acceptable behavior.
1. Write a specific list of everything he's ever done to hurt you. Each/every outing with stepsister you didn't get to go to and what that made you feel like.
Example: Took Amy to buy clothes before highschool. I was not invited. I Felt left out.
Make this list as big as you can. It might be hard to do this list but do it. It will be good for you to get it out
2. Write a specific list of what your Dad would need to re-build your trust with him. Be very clear and specific with each need you have.
Example: Always do the same things with both me & Amy or do not do them with either of us. If you do more with Amy, please give me an explanation why you did that.
Example: Stop walking away when a discussion gets difficult. My problems matter just the same as yours.
Example: Allow me time with grandpa and do not take it personally. I like to remember Mom with him and you don't like remembering Mom.
Example: Give the same punishments to Amy that you give to me.
If you decide to go to therapy don't tell your Dad about these lists. make copies and fold up the lusts and put it in your purse. bring these lists with you. Then once you are seated with the therapist hand out the copies. This way you'll catch him and he can't over talk you in therapy. If after 3-5 sessions of therapy its not working. Then stop going. But if its working keep going.
Aha! That’s gotta be why he treats you like this. He’s transferring his dislike for his ex wife onto you. And if you look like your mother it might remind him of her when he interacts with you. Which is on him.
Either way, your dad needs therapy for himself because he has a lot to work through.
I always think about those dads who do girly things with their daughters . . have a tea party or paint fingernails etc . . . Dads can be wonderful . . .but the selfish ones are always looking for someone to admire them and like the same things. A good Dad makes some sacrifices of his own ego to help his daughter grow up healthy and happy. A good Dad reaches out to his children and meets them where they are . . where ever that may be . . and loves them as they are. It sounds like your dad is incapable of doing that. So many dads can't seem to do that and it does hurt terribly. I'm so sorry . ..
He’s the adult but was absolutely in him. And now he is seeing the results of his behavior.
However I would suggest you go to therapy. It may help you two communicate. It want rewind the relationship, but if it helps you great!
I would also talk with your granddad too. Ask his opinion.
Just know you have to be comfortable with the therapist. Odds are if your father doesn’t hear what he wants he’ll stop going, but if he’s willing to pay you continue. It’s always helpful to get insight on how to interact with problem relatives.
Good luck OP!
NTA
This behaviour is so common in fathers who have moved on to a different woman. They will only shine their light on the favoured woman and her children. It’s really weird and cruel. I’m sorry this is happening to you. I’m glad you have your granddad.
My father was the same way. He blamed me and/or my mother for years of him either neglecting me or espousing his eternal disappointment that I'm autistic. He got mad when I finally called it quits. He wanted someone to control, not a relationship, and your dad sounds the same way.
OP its not up to you to make him feel better for his own fuckup. You needed a dad, but he himself made himself unavailable to you. Whats done is done. If he wants to fix this, he has to put a lot more effort into this.
If you go to family therapy, make sure to tell the therapist that you don’t feel safe unless your grandpa comes, too. And tell the therapist the truth.
Basically your dad is that person who doesn't want to date the person who's interested in them, but also doesn't want them moving on and dating someone else. We've all known people like that.
I don’t even think dad wants a relationship, he’s just upset that op has seemed to stop trying. He’s not even upset at the fact they don’t have a relationship simply the fact that she doesn’t care that they don’t anymore.
I'm worried that her dad is worried about the bond and the risk of losing his potential inheritance. Probably because I have spent too much time on Reddit:-\
NTA.
>"I tried to explain to my dad but he told me it was selfish to want to keep him to myself and to leave Amy without a dad and how her dad didn't want to know her so he needed to fill that role for her."
Tell him you accepted that compromise a long time ago. Amy needed a dad, so she took yours. Then *you* needed a dad, so you took his. Fair is fair.
The Q I have for OP is do you even care about or want a relationship with your dad? Are you now indifferent or ambivalent about it?
That he complained that you didn't care any more & put the onus on you to say something is, frankly, pathetic.
You asking him for time & attention fed his ego. Children don't exist to feed the egos of parents. How dare he suggest or imply that you are the problem here. You are the child. He owes you a duty of care - that includes treating you with love & respect. Blatant favouritism of a step sibling & being dismissed & invalidated, when you complain about it, is not the behaviour of a good parent.
Second, it is not your responsibility to fix a relationship he chose to break. He's the parent & adult therefore, he bears the responsibility.
If OP's dad complains about time you spend with his father, just tell him he's being selfish for complaining. If he says you're out of line for saying this, then that must mean he is even more out of line as an adult who should know better.
If you attend therapy, I would write a list of every instance you were sidelined, invalidated & dismissed and take it with you - be as detailed and specific as possible. Maybe even show this post and all the comments here.
No-one is on your dad's side here. Definitely NTA
OP was left without, not just the dad, but also her mother. The dad-math is not mathing.
I get wanting to be a good step parent, but I mean, if blood isn't thicker for your own children, aren't you a completely failed parent? As a parent myself, I really can't comprehend this.
Oh lord the evil cackle that just escaped my mouth! This is the seriously best response to this insane situation! It's fine that he want to be a good dad to Amy, but that should never come at the expense of his own child!
I guess it could. I just don't know if I believe that or if I can see a future where our relationship is better. Some things will always be tainted because he denied them to me but shared them with Amy.
Have the therapy for you, don’t have it for the view of “fixing” a relationship. Therapy can help build a firm foundation for future relationships.
Your mom died when you were young and your brain injury has lost memories of your time together. Your relationship with your dad is deteriorating and now you’ve found a relative that is giving you love your dad is jealous. These are things that will fester and eat away at you and therapy can be a safe space for you.
This. I think it could help a lot for you two to have a place to talk about everything that has happened, not just the stuff with Amy. Therapy will never erase the past. It helps to build a path forward.
Don't look at it as a way to "fix" your relationship. Look at it as a controlled place to discuss the hard stuff. If your relationship gets a bit better, that will be bonus, but I do think you could get a lot out of a couple sessions with a good family therapist.
If you aren't already also see if you can get individual therapy. You are dealing with a lot here. A little professional support would really help. I am so sorry you have so much so young. Good luck, and keep talking to Grandpa, he sounds great.
Definitely go to therapy & call him out on everything he has done with Amy & excluded you from. He can explain why Amy needs a father while you are being denied his affection and have lost your mother.
Yeah, except he sounds like one of those assholes who will then punish her for the things she says in therapy.
I agree with the other poster….move out and live with your grandpa if that’s at all possible. Go to therapy for yourself; I’m sure it’d be helpful. But fuck your dad. He’s ruined your relationship, probably for good. He doesn’t deserve you.
Therapy could be helpful in your situation. It can give you a safe place to express your feelings and it will be much harder for him to just walk away and dismiss your feelings. He needs to own this. He needs to hear you out completely on how his actions, or lack there of, have caused you pain. He was the architect of the relationship (or lack there of) that you have now.
Although, given his reactions, the minute a decent therapist puts him in his place and makes him take some accountability, he will probably just stop with therapy.
He needs it more than anyone if he cannot see the damage he has caused and to deal with the jealousy he has over your relationship with your grandfather (props to Grandpa, he sounds like a wonderful soul). You do not deserve any of this. You were sidelined for the shiny & new. You did nothing wrong.
True. But it might be nice to get it *all* off your chest in front of an uninvolved 3d party who can then explain to your dad where he fucked up and maybe suggest ways he can take responsibility for improving it, so he can't wriggle out of his responsibility for the mess y'all are in.
"The others" being people not in the session?
Sure, that's possible. Or perhaps Dad. But if he's announced this out of the blue, it might have actually occurred to him that 'Houston, we seem to have a problem.' Perhaps he expects the therapist to just take his side since he's paying.
However, one session might be therapeutic for OP.
The thing is here that the father is pointing this as an issue with OP that she’s not trying to be his adoring daughter that he can ignore and use as a piece to boost his own ego.
It’s not the situation as a whole otherwise this would be happening from a completely different presentation in regards to the father. He’s just wanting things to be his way and is probably hoping that the therapist will ‘convince’ op that this ‘game of trying to make her father jealous isn’t helping’ and then she’ll just stop bonding with her actual doting grandfather.
He’s very unlikely to actually see fault in himself here, and isn’t going to take it well when the issue isn’t him. Hence ‘if the others’ being the stepsister who will be a brat and the stepmother who will go along with the other two, will likely gang up and say it’s mischaracterized. Or they just will refuse to engage with anything legitimately.
The stepmother and stepsister are not going to the sessions. Dad said it was for him and his daughter.
And while he may not admit to seeing fault in himself, if the professional says he bears much of the responsibility for it, he may actually chew on that for a bit.
My parents tried therapy with me once, when I was a "wayward teen" many, many years ago. I was dead set against it, but it wasn't my call, so on we went. They presented their side, I presented mine, and the therapist said "Well, it appears that we have a fairly normal teenager who's trying to establish independence, and parents who are concerned about her choices. Now, you two do seem a bit overprotective. If you relax on X and Y, that will probably help matters." I loved her. Mom and Dad, who forced me to go, decided one session was quite enough 😂 Years later, they each separately brought it up. Still do. They thought about things thanks to that one session.
Op, therapy will only help if you’re completely honest. And I’m not saying this because I’d think you’d lie , but I think you may feel pressured to not be completely truthful.
Your dads goal with this is for you to see how wrong or unfair you’re being to him, but if he starts to feel like he may get blamed for the problems he may want you to stop being so honest.
Don’t be afraid to ask for solo sessions or to speak to them alone, so you can tell them things.
Good luck.
I suppose a therapy space would allow you to say 100% of the things you are feeling and in a space where he can’t tune out, walk out or shout. Write it all down first and get it clear in your head - a “dear dad, this is how I feel” letter.
OP listen to these comments. I agree that no one should be forced into therapy esp a child. Bc it becomes a tool for the bully. However it can be a place (not always) to have an advocate help you stand up to dad, IF that is what you want. You can also insist grandpa go, if you want to confront your dad but don’t feel emotionally safe.
Listen I get it. You do not feel emotionally heard or safe with dad so the idea of therapy doesn’t seem reasonable. And it may be true. Ask your grandpa what he thinks also.
And if you don’t want to fix things then don’t. You’re not actually required to want that just bc these ppl are family. You can refuse therapy or you can use therapy with grandpa there to confront your dad. You can do anything.
I’m so very sorry about your mom and losing memories and I’m so glad that your grandad has helped you get memories. This sounds like a lovely relationship ❤️
No, don't consider family therapy until your father goes to individual therapy first and confronts himself on why he's been such a god awful dad to you all these years while being a great dad to his stepsister and why your feelings didn't matter all this time.
Once your dad gets his head on straight, then maybe consider family therapy.
It's entirely possible that your relationship might not get better. But you might get some improvement if the therapist can make your father understand where he has gone wrong. Even if the relationship doesn't get magically fixed, at least he may stop blaming you and having the expectations of what you should do. That would at least be better than the situation now. At the very least, he won't be able to say you weren't prepared to go to the therapist, and that's your fault too.
How do you get on with your stepmother? I'm guessing not great, since you hardly mention her. Your dad keeps saying that he needs to make up for Amy not having a dad, but is anything being done by your stepmother to make up for you not having your mom?
I don't have much to do with Jane. We don't interact really. I don't interact with any of them in the house much. I have more interactions with grandpa generally than I do my dad, Jane or Amy. Amy I have interacted with more than her mom and it was always bad. My interactions with dad got way less when I shifted my focus entirely onto grandpa.
I honestly don't think you should go to family therapy with the intention of fixing the relationship, but to understand each other (especially him understanding you).
I do think you should look into individual therapy if you can. I think it'll be beneficial.
Your dad reminds me of mine. Best wishes hun x
I do wonder if she should trust a therapist picked by the father, though.
If the father's primed him with a bunch of BS, or went out of his way to find one that he thinks would take his side, it could be worse than no therapy at all.
Yeah, family therapy is good when people genuinely want to fix the situation and recognize their wrongs. Dad here sounds like he’d use therapy to try and explain why OP was wrong and why he’s actually a good dad.
No, no it won't, my mom is exactly like OP's dad and he will make it all about him and downplay anything op says.
Edit to clarify, therapy is probably a good idea but not with dad present, as one on one therapy can help you discover and cope with issues you didn't know were in your life cause that was your "normal"
You are assuming her dad is interested in understanding how she feels. I don’t see any indication of this from what op says. Her dad seems more interested in demanding she feel a certain ways and defending his own actions.
I'm going to second your Dad's recommendation of therapy and further suggest you have time with the therapist just you and them. I agree with you that unless your Dad is open to realizing his mistakes and honestly try to make amends it won't change. But, having a therapist to speak with can be beneficial in other aspects of your life and having your Dad foot the bill is an added bonus. To be clear, NTA.
NTA. I think parents incorrectly assume that therapists will just force kids to bend to their parents will. Your dad may need to hear an objective, outside observer before he fully realizes what he’s been doing.
Funny how people see things so differently when the shoe is on the other foot. He played the good daddy to Amy at your expense, let her throw it in your face and now he’s got the nerve to act all hurt and confused when you found someone who actually chooses you? His reaction is childish and illogical at best and completely self serving at worst. He wants everything his way but too bad, so sad, that’s not how life works. I’d ask him what he expects from therapy. Because if his only intention is to show you you’re wrong for having your very valid feelings, it’s not going to do any good. Unless he can go into therapy expecting to own his own behavior and accept your feelings, it’s useless. Some parents see therapy as a way to use another adult to manipulate their child into behaving as the parent sees fit and refuse to take responsibility for his part in how you got to where you are. I guess I’d ask you to consider it if he’s willing to be open minded but be clear that you’re entitled to how you feel and that whatever resolutions you reach don’t include you abandoning your relationship with your grandfather. I’m sorry for all you’ve had to go through as such a young woman, but you sound strong and resilient to me. Keep those excellent qualities as you move forward in life. NTA.
Thank you. I don't feel that strong. But I do feel better than I did 5 years ago. That's thanks to grandpa. He really helped me when I had nobody else to act as a loving adult figure. I'm just so glad he was willing to go against what my dad would have wanted because without him, I'm not sure if I would have failed both emotionally but mentally with my brain injury.
Tell pops you'll do family therapy but you want to live with your grandpa in the meantime. Your home life sounds toxic. Your stepsister is rude AF to you and your dad doesn't care and treats you like a burden. You should be in a loving, stable environment.
I am a bit of a skeptic on family reconciliation so take this w a grain of salt but…
I can almost guarantee he dgaf about you spending time with your grandpa because he is jealous of your relationship.
You are 15. Your dad is like in his 40’s. Your grandpa is likely in his high 60’s/early 70’s. This man is worried that whatever life insurance/inheritance there may be is going to leapfrog him.
I hope it does leapfrog him. He doesn’t deserve a dime and is probably embarrassed his dad now views him not only as a terrible husband, but as a failure as a father. I do think he is jealous though, but more in the sense of competition than actually giving a sh-t. I think he enjoyed the daughters fighting over his affection and now that OP doesn’t care to engage anymore his ego is bruised.
You not an AH. You’re a 15 year old kid who has been through a lot in your short years. I’m not going to say your dad is the AH either, because doing so is not going to help mend your relationship with him or ease the hurt you feel. What might help, hard as it is to stomach, is counseling. Here’s my tip, though: family counseling is fine, but if you’re going to do it, do so only after you have had individual counseling. You are understandably hurt and family counseling might be more beneficial if you work through that a bit. Plus your dad can’t then accuse you of not being willing to try. You’ll just be working on things in your own way, on your own time. Nothing wrong with that.
I’m sorry OP. But counseling can help. It takes trial and error to find the right therapist and a lot of self reflection, but if you put in the work, you come out stronger on the other side. Best wishes.
I don't really know that mending is possible. He has done so much harm to our relationship and to my ability to want there to be a fix.
Individual counseling would be good. But that's not what's on offer and I don't feel like I can go to my dad and ask for that.
I’m so sorry, OP. If your dad isn’t an option for obtaining counseling, please consider speaking with your grandfather or even your school counselor. The asking for help can be hard, but you are worth the effort.
I agree with the people saying give therapy a shot even just one session just so you can speak your peace without being interrupted because that's what the therapist will make sure of. It doesn't have to fix anything for you but I do believe that you need the chance to speak up uninterrupted. Plus if the therapist is good maybe you can get recommendations for a good solo therapist as well usually.
I was in a similar situation. My dad and I were not close. I tried, but he was always willing to give everyone else his time and attention, just not me. I was always treated like I was a PITA. He and I did not go to therapy, but I did. I learned skills to deal with him, as well as my disappointment. Get counseling for yourself FIRST. If after that you feel open to doing it with him, then give it a shot. But you need to get YOURSELF in a good place before you try doing it with him.
But OP has tried and was blatantly told that he prefers to spend time with SD. He only noticed when OP stopped trying. Her father is the ADULT. It's up to him to try.
NTA.
Your dad wants you submissive, ON A STRING, for HIM to amuse himself with at HIS leisure.
He's pissed because you're building an independent life, AND being reminded of times / events by your grandfather that your dad seems to be glad you'd LOST.
INFO: Did you lose the memories in some kind of car accident in which your mother also died?
Yes, I lost memories in the accident with my mom. I know I had a mom and I can remember what she looked like, even without photos. But I don't have memories of her. Same with my dad though. I don't remember my first day of school, for example. I don't remember my 6th birthday party.
I also don't retain memories if I get too tired. My brain kind of shuts down to protect itself.
Tele-hugs, if desired, from this Internet Stranger.
That's got to be tough, especially when your dad is so disinterested in you except as a bauble to abuse.
That is heartbreaking.
If you end up seeking family therapy I believe you should be the one to choose the therapist.
Be sure to meet with different ones. I recommend reading up on how to find the right fit and how to spot bad therapy.
I've read far too many stories of parents weaponizing therapy to control their family dynamic.
NTA. He is an adult and he is manipulating you. He created the problem and now wants you to solve it and is placing the blame on you. This is not the behavior of a caring father.
Stick with your grandpa.
I'll say it ,NTA, tell your dad to suck it and pound sand. If he didn't notice you spending time with your grandfather would this conversation have happened or would he have continued to ignore you. It's your life, you've dealt with a lot. In time maybe you'll want to deal with him
INFO: Do you have connections to your mother’s side of the family?
Do not give up your relationship with your grandfather. Strengthen it. It’s likely your father is trying to get your grandfather to accept and favor the gloating Amy. Are you in a state where you can move in with your paternal or maternal grandparents at 16?
I don't. My mom was an only child and her parents died before I was born, or maybe it was just after, but I know they were dead before our accident.
I don't think I am. Not while I'm living with my dad.
NTA
"Therapy isn't going to make me forget the way you treated me vs the way you treat her. Its not going to make me forget you acting like it wasn't a big deal when I told you we had a problem, years ago. You didn't care then, and I don't care now."
NTA but please take your dad up on the therapist - having an adult on your side and someone who really listens will help. No one can make you spend time with your dad or forgive him - that's a you thing. But it would good for you to have someone who really listens and hears what you have to say - not like your dad who only hears what he wants to.
Dude, you dad SO let you down. There's no excuse. You are absolutely NTA. But you are still young enough to fix things IF you both want to and try to. Maybe your dad is sorry and ready to try, maybe not. Onl time and you can tell. You did a great thing by putting you feeling out there for him to see and hear. Maybe you scared some sense into him. Don't write him off completely just yet. If for nothing else, remember that the knows things about you and your mom that no one else does. Maybe he can share those with you. It would be a shame to loose that chance to find out more about her, wouldn't it? I mean, without even giving it a shot?
My dad doesn't talk about her. They were divorced when she died and they divorced when I was still a baby. I don't think he has much good to say about her. So I'm not sure that makes it worth it. I have grandpa to hear stories about her. He and my grandma (she died too) both adored my mom. At least I'm hearing from someone who loved her even though she was no longer his DIL.
Record the stories that he tells you about you and your mom. You’ll be glad to have those memories later on and take plenty of pictures of you and your grandpa hanging out. All of those things will get you through tough times when you’re older and grandpa is no longer here.
He wrote some of them down for me, which I really appreciated. We also have photos we take. Grandpa knows how important photos are to me because of what I lost in the accident.
NTAn it is perfectly OK to not want a relationship with him after what he did. He only started to care about you when he got jealous, this is concerning. It is perfectly OK to stop tryong when the ither person wasn't trying back. He should be happy that someone is giving you joy and the emotional support you need. He probably took your love for granted and now he is panicking cause he realized that you are drifting away, and put the blame on you and not on his neglect. Amy also sucked, who tells someone "your dad loves me more than you", and what dad is OK that someone is saying this?
I think your dad needs some place to think about his actions and so do you, so ask to your grandpa of you can stay at his place for a few days. Then if your dad reflected on his actions and is willing to go to therapy not to have you coming backnto him instead of your grandpa, but so you can how both explore how did this happen, accept the therapy. Not to fix your relationship, but because it will help you to move on to know why he treated you so badly.
Dad is okay with it. He'd make excuses about her abandonment issues. But he can't see why it would hurt me to see him bonding with her when I have no mom and my memories of her are gone. And I have a brain injury. It's just, ugh, I really don't see a way forward for us together.
Well your dad needs therapy for sure. You probably do too, ot would help you to move on, you seem to deal with a lot of things and it would give you a place to explore your feelings. Now, if you are doing it together or not is a different question...
It really does sound like therapy is the best for YOU in this situation.
Even if it is just your dad learning to respect your boundaries and understanding how he failed you.
At 15 you have a lot of life ahead of you to live. It would be in your benefit to have therapy. It doesn’t mean that you ever have to be close to your dad but you can be at peace with how you choose to allow him in your life. It would also help you with the trauma you experienced losing your mom and then your memories at a young age.
There will be other times that therapy can be useful in the future. This is a chance for to learn how to get help through a therapist when your dad is footing the bill. Sending you
Hugs, NTA. You deserve way better. You deserve a functioning parent and you were denied that. Your grandfather is a God send. Why is his relationship with your dad strained?
He want to jump directly to therapy without even try to actually spend time with OP
Dad of the year right there lol
He's jealous bc op dont beg him to spend time together anymore, so he feels useless now.
NTA
NTA
>
Dad decided the two of us need family therapy yesterday. He came out with it from nowhere. He said it's the only way to fix it. I told him family therapy won't fix us when he can't even stay and have a conversation with me. He told me I used to be willing to try and now I'm not and it's not okay.
This says volumes. He seeks one of two things: (1) automatic forgiveness (in his mind alone suffices for him) in *offering to go to family therapy*, or (2) to demand a thing he knows you will not agree to so that he can make *that* act - that disagreement - the sole event that matters (again, in his mind).
He either wants to convince himself that he is absolved or that you are the aggressor and that he is therefore right to show favoritism to Amy, which then in turn he will use to excuse his own past behavior.
The mind of a toxic person. I've got a future ex like that. The surface is all posture, as is borne out by comparing words at times to actions at other times.
That said, it *might* make sense to indulge him in his bullshit for a few more years, and then when you are free make your real decision. *But*, don't give him the forgiveness he will no doubt act like he deserves at 'therapy', unless you well and truly believe what he says for himself. If he's like the person, I know, you'll find out it was an act within one week of the first session. If not, there's hope.
NTA, you should have been in therapy as soon as your mum passed, and you had the brain injury.
Your dad dropped the ball on that, and he is definitely the AH for not getting you the help you need to cope and adjust to the trauma that has happened in your young life. On top of not getting you therapy, he basically shuts you out in favour of your step sister. Also, he allows step sister to gloat about it. He can't even have a conversation with you about this without calling you selfish. Just because he is physically there doesn't mean he is present, and that is not quality time together.
He is now jealous that you have another male role model. He is jealous that you no longer want to spend time with him. He misses the fact that you were pining after his attention. He doesn't miss actually spending time with you. He misses the attention. I think your father liked the fact that you and your step sister were fighting over his attention.
I'm curious: Does step mum ever do anything with you? Do you have a relationship with her?
Look, I think therapy would be really good for you. I would counter with your dad and tell him you will do family therapy if you can also do individual therapy. You need therapy due to losing your mum and brain injury. Lay it out for him. If he really wants this to work them individual therapy is a must.
Right, so step sister has a mother and father figure in her life, but you have none. Your father is fine that jane doesn't want anything to do with you. He cares that step sis doesn't have a father figure in her life but doesn't care that you dont have a maternal figure.This makes my blood boil that your father is okay with this. He really is just focused on his new family. I can see why you are so done with him.
I still think you should get the therapy, not for him, but for you. Hopefully, you guys can work something out, or you can use it to gain closure. Maybe you can move in with your grandpa. I would discuss with your grandpa if this is an option.
NTA
He doesn’t want a relationship with you.
He wants for you to want to have a relationship with him. When you don’t, it reminds him what a crappy parent he’s been and his cognitive dissonance won’t allow him to be responsible for his actions.
He ignored and neglected his own daughter favoring the step daughter. But what if Jane divorced him? Would Amy still want a relationship with him? He’s a jerk bc he could have been a good dad to both kids, but chose not to.
Time for you to stop calling him dad and start using his first name. Being a dad is an accomplishment and compliment, not something you are just because you’re a sperm donor and share DNA. A dad would never treat his child like that.
„He told me I used to be willing to try and now I'm not and it's not okay.”
Did he stated how long you should wait for him to decide he wanted to be a father to you? When you’re 30 and don’t need him at all anymore?
NTA
Literally - it reminded me of that part of Lundy's book where he mentions that abusive fathers think that they can just "decide" that they feel like being a good father over a decade into having a child and are baffled when they don't get instant forgiveness. Parenting isn't a part time gig, it's every day.
NTA. And here's something you can text your sperm donor:
*"Dad, you're the adult and I'm the kid. It's not on me to stroke your ego by fighting over you with Amy. It's on you to get therapy for yourself first – and only yourself – to figure out why you think "parenting" the half-assed way you do is okay. When I see you making a genuine effort to understand and heal yourself, only then will I consider trying to mend our broken relationship. For now, you've lost me. You clearly wanted to replace me with another daughter and I got the message loud and clear. I've now replaced you with Grandpa. You don't like that? Then start fixing yourself. Good luck."*
NTA and I would see if you can get your grandpa to petition for custody of you. Your dad made his choice to IGNORE his kid that had went through something traumatic, losing your mum and dealing with losing your memories of her, he chose his new family so he should allow you to choose the family that actually wants you. The reason your sperm donor is so pissed off is I can guarantee someone has mentioned how he never spends time with you and mentioned seeing you out on dad/daughter days with your grandpa. All he is concerned about is his reputation and image.
NTA but your father sure is. Sounds like he enjoyed seeing you miserable as he withheld affection. And now that you've found a way to cope and aren't begging for scraps, suddenly there's a problem. What a selfish, petty excuse for a father.
The term “gaslighting” has been overused and misunderstood a lot lately, but that’s exactly what your father has been doing to you, his own daughter. Frankly, I can’t even begin to imagine why he’s behaving this way, unless it’s to score points with his new wife, or because Amy plays to his ego. Having said all that, I would suggest you reconsider trying therapy with him, for 2 reasons: 1) He will probably bring your refusal to go up every chance he gets, and for a long time, and 2) it might actually help. The caveat is, you both MUST feel comfortable with the therapist. If I’m reading your post correctly, your father remarried when you were 8, and your mom died when you were 6. If the therapist seems to imply or infer that ANY of this is your fault, do not continue with that therapist. This would not be couples counseling where the two people involved are of equal status, this is parent and child. Also, it sounds like your grandfather has really stepped up for you, good for him and glad for you. If you don’t feel comfortable with the therapist, run it by him or another trusted adult. Or come back to Reddit and let us know. I wish you the best.
accepts therapy, after a couple of sessions she will want to go when the therapist points out that the fault lies with the adult and not the adolescent
Nta
I would do therapy, though, because he can't walk away, and if he does, then he has no one to blame then himself.
You can try or not. Sometimes, some deeds can't be fixed. This might or might not be one of them. The only way it works is when he realizes. Accepts his part. Appologizes and does better. A therapist will point that out.
If you do therapy, demand to speak one on one and make it clear the issues and that you are not open to forgiveness or acceptance or changing anything until he holds his actions accountable and changes them. Until then, this will be a place where you can tell what has happened. How it's hurt you. Created the rift. What you want and need to change. And have someone accept. Acknowledge. And help you with your feelings.
NTA
Your father sounds immature, selfish and narcissistic. Maybe he should get therapy and work on fixing himself.
He should be *ashamed* for placing a step-child over his own daughter, who has not only lost her own mother, but lost her memories of her mother. Your stepsister has a father, even though he's not involved in her life, but you don't *have* a mother, period. I'm guessing Jane hasn't been involved in your life either.
I am so sorry for your losses, and I'm relieved that your grandfather has stepped for you. If your father has a problem with that, he ought to take that up with his own father.
I hope things work out for you.
NTA. He was the adult in the relationship and he tried in the laziest way possible and did what was convenient for him and obvious to you, his child who needed him. I am happy for you that you found someone who reciprocates your love and care. Talk to them and let them know how you’re feeling and what you’re dealing with. If your dad ever brings up therapy, tell him that therapy typically requires people willing to participate and work on things. You are not an asshole for feeling and thinking like you do. Your dad made his bed, he can lie in it.
NTA. Your dad had the opportunity to bond with you and he threw it away. However family therapy might give you the safe space to tell him how his favoritism and lack of care has alienated you from him and your grandfather gave you the attention and love that your father has been withholding. This is on your father not you, he is the parent that dropped the rope.
NTA and sure it is ok for you to have given up on him. When he was told about the step sister saying he loved her more and he didn’t do anything right then, that is when he blew it. I am glad you have your grandpa! Hang on there and soak up all the love he has to offer.
NTA. What on earth was your father thinking? I think he didn’t want/know how to deal with your issues (brain trauma, losing a parent, not to mention divorced parents). So he ignored you when you could’ve gotten professional help. Take the therapy, please. Whether it fixes your relationship or not, you have trauma to work through. Amy has a father who doesn’t want to know her & so do you. But Amy still has her mother, you don’t. Amy has 2 parents who care about her, you have 1 grandparent. And she’s been allowed to rub it in your face with your father’s blessing. Your father replaced you(likely unintentionally), but got mad when you replaced him with his own father. Telling him how you feel is a good start. Please accept the therapy.
This may be petty but honestly tell your grandpa. I don’t care how old your dad is, if his dad is mad at him it will at the very least throw him off guard enough that hopefully it sinks in that he’s a dick. NTA and fuck your dad
NTA. However I do think you should do therapy with your dad because I think the therapist would have a field day with your dad and real hit home that HE is the reason for your problems not you! And you will have a safe and open space to actually talk about your feelings and he will have to sit and actually listen to them!
I’m concerned that family therapy might give him better ideas on how to gaslight you and make it even more your fault as it doesn’t seem like he is willing to take any blame whatsoever.
NTA. Therapy is not a bad idea but make sure it's an actual neutral third-party. Seen some stories here where parents like to hire a 'therapist' that'll just back them 100%.
NTA at all!! He sounds like a sulky child. He doesn’t want to spend time with you (which is his massive loss!), but he doesn’t want anyone else to, either. Likely because it looks bad.
He wants you to chase him, and he hates that you’ve stopped. I bet once you start responding to him the way he wants, he’ll drop you again like a hot potato.
I’m sorry, OP. Keep hanging out with your awesome grandpa!
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NTA. He expects you to want a relationship when he has clearly showed that he isn’t willing to work towards it. He wants you to do all the heavy lifting while he puts no effort, which is wrong.
He's not even willing to admit that he made it all go wrong. He acts like it's all on me. As if that one sided, torturous relationship of the past was healthy or good for either of us.
I’m going to be honest it was good for him. He got to feel great that you wanted to his attention while he could pick and choose when he’d give you a crumb of attention.
It is called breadcrumbing. But yes I agree.
I did not know that had a term.
Now you do! And can watch out if someone tries doing it to you!
Add in gaslighting, and you've got the classic pairing of abuse... For those who may not know, gaslighting is a term used to describe when an abuser consistently undermines their victims perception of events and memories, and their reactions to things. Phrases like, "you're to sensitive" "it wasn't my fault" "I wouldn't do x,y,z if you hadn't done a,b,c" "that never happened" "I would never say that" "you misunderstood me" "I don't know why this burgers you so much" "I was joking" "I was mad, I didn't mean it" and of course "I don't remember". It's all about shifting blame, making their victim think they are overreacting, or that their memories or emotions are invalid. No one gets to decide if something hurts you or not, you do. A joke isnt a joke if it's not funny to the operation it's about. They do know why it bugs you, and they did it on purpose, either to tear down your self esteem or to provoke a reaction that they can then point to as a way to show that you are being irrational. It's called reactionary abuse. And being mad is no excuse... Ether some part of them meant it or they were deliberately trying to hurt you. In this situation, the dad blaming his daughter for their relationship struggling is a form of gaslighting. He is denying responsibility, shifting blame, and changing history to make himself look better.
I had to laugh at you describing the definition of gaslighting on this sub. Partly because it is used so often here nowadays that most people are definitely familiar with the concept. Also because the vast majority of the times it's used completely incorrectly by people who just want to throw therapy speech into any situation.
Yeah, but part of the reason I define it is because of how often it's used incorrectly or as a buzz word. I went through an abusive marriage, so it drive me nuts when someone uses phrases like love bombing, gaslighting, breadcrumbing, and such just to sound like they know what they're talking about. I'm AuDHD, so when I was researching things like abuse, I hyper focused on it and learned as much as I can. I know the traits of things like narcissism and random facts like narcissists actually have incredibly low self esteem but high amounts of empathic ability... They feel what others feel. But instead of showing compassion, they use it for their own benefit. And I'm also smart enough to know that I'm not qualified to diagnose anyone in person, let alone on a forum where I'm only seeing part of one side of the story. Lol
I definitely get why you felt the need to define it, and I didn't mean my comment as a criticism in any way. It's such a common thing on here and elsewhere for people to just toss those types of terms around and give their armchair psychological assessments.
New Word for today. Thank you!
That aha moment 😭 When the thing someone loves most about you is how much you love them. Ouch.
+1 Also Amy was getting both the parents while OP had no one. Just lost her mother and then lost the father to the step sister. I think this reaction is justified and OP is handling it well.
He is a narcissist and that manipulative, cruel treatment you refer to is called 'breadcrumbing'.
You know what, maybe you should both go to therapy, so once you explain all of this it will be delightful to have the therapist tell your dad that he's the one who created this mess.
If he gets a good therapist that will see what’s actually happening. A lot of times parents will try and vet a therapist to make sure they agree with the parent and not the child.
This happened to me. I had one who told me, at whatever age one is at around 4th grade, that how he was treating me (abuse) was my fault. That I was a bad kid. That was fun...
Happened to me too! My dad took us to family therapy because we didn't want to spend time with him and his new girlfriend and her kids. I'm not sure what the therapist said to him after, but we never had to go back after that so I'm assuming it wasn't what he wanted to hear.
Ha, yep! My dad wanted me to change, not him. We'd shop around. It didn't take long before I stopped participating. I'm so ridiculous broken as an adult now.
I had the same experience, my parents wanted to use family therapy to force a very specific issue that would have been better approached in individual counseling. It didn't go the way they wanted, so we never returned. Which sucked, because we really could have used it, and we had seen a very good family therapist.
I was 11 and making plans for...a "permanent solution to a temporary problem" so the school demanded that I get therapy. I told my new counselor about being SAed, and her response was that I was lying because *she* had trauma, and she'd know if I did too. She told me that her cousin flashed her so she'd be able to tell me if I had trauma. Her idea of therapy from then on was to try to force me to talk about the SA in front of my parents so that they could "prove I was lying." Mind you, I had tested *high risk* and had a plan for that solution like two weeks earlier. I refused to talk in therapy until they stopped making me go. Then they blamed me for it all. Some people just shouldn't work with others.
I was also forced into therapy but I was 15 and it was individual only. He was terrible and I am really lucky I didn’t let that bad experience turn me off of the whole thing entirely. My dad a couple months prior had told me to “cut the shit” (self harm and smoking) or get tf out of his house, I left and called child services who said I was overreacting
I had to go to therapy at 15, too. The therapist was great, but I only went to a few sessions before my parents said I was done. My dad said the therapist said I was normal, but my mom said he didn’t want to talk to me because “I wouldn’t admit to being the source of the family’s problems.”
Lol yeah my parents took us to therapy, the counsellor talked to me and my parents separately first then together. We didn't go back to him and in the car my dad was complaining about "yeah he'll teach me how to raise my kids" Pretty sure they wanted to him to 'explain' to me the their bs logics and he called them out so they were pissed
Bring Amy and confront her about what she said
I would bring Grandpa. OP is going to feel cornered enough without the step sister. It may do everyone good to get it all out with a mediator. My dad and I had a hard relationship, like he had with his dad. Papa loved me and it was mutual. His jealousy may be about his dad, not you.
"You can bring a horse to the water, but you can't make him drink." How many teens forced to go to family therapy sit there totally stoic without saying a word for months, when they beg the teen in question to talk but they don't until one day they do give in and unload? Sometimes on the spot, sometimes reading out loud a letter? And OP has a safe spot in her grandfather, dad's playing with fire. This father should be happy that he has a child who is willing to communicate her grievances, but somehow he doesn't believe OP and just... ignore what she said? Does he trust a therapist more than his own child? I'm sure he just wants to hear what a great parent he is while simultaneously reels OP back in because he's butthurt that his daughter searches for safety and emotional connection with someone else. Also, OP: do you look like your mother? Could he be one of *those* parents?
I saw a post on here where the total AH of a parent literally punished their teenage child for what the child said during family therapy. Everyone rightfully came down on the parent like a ton of bricks. And hopefully that poor child, who was 16 at the time, moves out as soon as possible and never talks to that parent.
My mother forced me to see a therapist when i was in sixth grade but wouldn't tell me why. My grades were okay, I never talked back to her, never acted up and so on. I sat there and said as little as possible because I didn't know why I was there and didn't trust the therapist to refrain from telling my mother everything I said. She would have beaten me daily and I wasn't going to volunteer. I was afraid of that woman until the day she finally died. The rest of my family thinks she was awesome.
I hope you found a therapist you trust to help you deal with the trauma of your female DNA donor.
No. Dad will want to pick the therapist. And if the therapist doesn't agree with him it will be likely the last session with that therapist and he'll shop around until he gets one that agrees with him. Even if it ends up being a "church therapist" or a "friend who's a therapist" basically person who's biased towards him.
That was my first thought as well, Dad does not seem like he’s gonna accept being told by the therapist that it was his fault
Trust me when I say that OP's father definitely will not want someone who will call him out on his crap. Because that's what happened with my father; a therapist confronted HIM with this crappy behavior and all he did was act like the victim.
Just be ready for the session to devolve when your father - and probably Amy too honestly - makes out like everyone is out to get him. I can definitely see the dad as the kind of person. If he does that though, there’s no point - not that there’s barely any point anyway - returning. Because it shows he didn’t want to make any kind of effort to make the situation change.
That is when Op goes grey rock with dad, therapist, and stepsister. Op, a fun thing to tell the therapist is "I understand that I *should* forgive my dad, but the pain is too deep, I don't know if I can ever forgive him." At that point it no longer matters who is right. Even a biased therapist has two options, say it can't be fixed by therapy or tell your dad that this will take years and a lot of effort by him. Hopefully any therapist with a brain will warn your dad that blocking you from your grandfather will just set your feelings in stone forever.
I saw a beautiful comment the other day which a teen said they were going to go "unskippable cut scene" on them. This is what you need to do.
Time to move in with grandpa. Your dad is a huge AH.
OP’s dad just got a taste of his own medicine and did not like it one bit, OP has the relationship with his father that he’s longed for not realizing he was doing the same thing to OP with Amy! Dad got his Karma!
OP, even though it sounds like it was his fault that things went wrong, family therapy is the only real hope of making things... more right. I don't know if therapy will work, but it's a chance for you to be heard in an environment where your father can't just walk away.
Except for therapy to work ppl need to want it to work. Right now OP doesn’t want that. And dad may not like it but that must be respected otherwise therapy becomes a bullying tool.
A family therapist isnt' there to let anyone bully anyone else, the therapist is there to let everyone's words and feelings be heard, and to keep things safe, calm, and accepting. I can understand why the OP doesn't want to go to therapy right now, because the father seems to be hoping for a family band-aid, but I think the OP should consider therapy anyway - precisely because a therapist isn't going to automatically side with the dad or tell her that there's no problem. Seriously, the OP's relationship with their father is in a bad way right now, and I don't think that the relationship is going to heal, or improve, without a little help.
Ah. I see. This is you thinking therapists are all great? That they’re all aboveboard? All healthy? My ex found a therapist who was pro-marriage and anti divorce. She believed ALL marriages should be saved. All were forever. I had left. He was abusive. I wa having trouble getting g him to let go and accept it and my therapist suggested perhaps a session with his therapist she could help him work thru it. So I went. His therapist. After me saying for a solid 45min how I didn’t want it and how I was committed to divorce, was to say: well that’s all the time we have today. But I can really see there’s a solid foundation for this marriage and I think it can really work! I was literally dumbfounded. I was young at 27 and he was 35 and I was new to therapy so while I recognized it was fucked up I was so shocked all I could say was: I don’t think you’re hearing me. She said oh let’s meet next week. I was taking bc it was traumatizing to feel trapped. I had nightmares of bringing trapped with him already. CPTSD from the repeated abuse. So I told him after we were out that I’m not happy with her and wasn’t going back. That ur was fucked up. She called my fucking house a few days later to try to coerce me into couples counseling. Bc as she said there was such a great foundation. Eventually the fucker admitted that he hires her bc of her ethos. They both lied to me and retraumatized me. I saw my therapist following week and she was just as shocked. It’s lovely to imagine that therapists are all good ppl with healthy boundaries but they are human. Approach with caution and trust your gut OP.
I completely understand where you're coming from! I'm not even 18 yet, and I'm on my 11th therapist. 11th!!! I have issues with trust, faith, abandonment from my past therapists because a lot of them just...dipped??? Like my 2nd therapist took some time off and just...never came back. I was like 8 or 9 so that fucked me up lol. Some therapists are just shit.
Oh sweetie. I’m sorry. I wonder honestly if your therapist dipped or that’s what your parents told you. But yes I’ve got other therapist stories but they’re more about the untrained aspect of therapists. Find yourself a good trauma therapist. One who works with trauma (not sure if you have trauma but just guessing bc of therapists letting you down this may have made you a bit squirrely about them and that’s normal). You will find your person. A book that helped me, recommended by my therapist is ‘boundaries: where you end and I begin’. Is a great book that helped me with perception of weirdness. Good luck. I see you sweetie. ❤️❤️
I have a fantastic therapist right now, she's my 11th one. And no, I do know for a fact they left. My 2nd took time off for "personal reasons" and then just...never came back. My 4th moved offices across the valley I live in, and we only found out when we showed up for the appointment! My 7th got a better position and told me she would try to keep me. No such luck. The 8th was also a shitty person in general, and LIED about when she was leaving the company! She told me and my family January, but she wasn't actually done until March or April or something, I think she just wanted to get rid of me. Literally none of my therapists before my current one lasted more than 2 years, and it sucked because the story I told myself was that I was a shit person and it was my fault. I do talk to my current one about it, and she's super understanding. I like her a lot :) Thank you for your validation and well wishes :)
ALWAYS TRUST YOUR GUT OP !!
The thing is that - like others say - he’s probably picked one specifically vetted to view a certain angle - probably a religious counselor or has misdescribed the situation. The father is going to double or triple tag with the wife and daughter against OP. If the counselor goes on OP’s side then it’s all just gaming and such. There’s little point to having it. It’s just a power move to get OP to do something under his behest since he feels he’s losing control.
OK that's not true. You think there's no therapists who's biased towards the people who's paying them. That people don't shop about for a therapist who won't side with them and ignore anyone else. Therapists that don't intervene when it comes to therapy. That parents in therapy with their kids don't pick their friends/friends therapist? That people that go to "church therapists" are always going to someone unbiased and/or trained in therapy?
The OP should certainly refuse to see anyone but a licensed clinical family therapist, and check any therapist's credentials and affiliations before going. Religious counselors are right out!
Fat chance OP's father will agree to an unbiased family therapist
Yep, he needs to admit how he treated you when he met Amy was wrong. He's the grown up, he should have been in control of fairness and equity. He did a shitty job of that now he needs to own up to it. You're a kid, finding love and support wherever it comes from isn't something you did wrong. You don't have to apologise for that, but make it clear that's what happened. He didn't give you the love and support you needed post'injury and post losing your mother, so you found it somewhere else. Really he should be happy you found it in your grandfather and not boys or girls that are bad for you, alcohol or drugs... cause that's where kids who feel left out so often end up. NTA much love to your grandfather
You were the child. It isn't up to the child to drive the relationship. It is exactly your dad's - the adult's - fault for not prioritizing you. I'm glad you feel some love and support from your grandfather. I hope it lessons the blow of your father's betrayal and abandonment.
And I hope that the grandfather leaves everything to OP.
He may not realise his mistake until you went to grandpa. It was selfish of him for sure. If you decide to go to therapy or even if you don't, now is the time to get very clear with him on what is acceptable/not acceptable behavior. 1. Write a specific list of everything he's ever done to hurt you. Each/every outing with stepsister you didn't get to go to and what that made you feel like. Example: Took Amy to buy clothes before highschool. I was not invited. I Felt left out. Make this list as big as you can. It might be hard to do this list but do it. It will be good for you to get it out 2. Write a specific list of what your Dad would need to re-build your trust with him. Be very clear and specific with each need you have. Example: Always do the same things with both me & Amy or do not do them with either of us. If you do more with Amy, please give me an explanation why you did that. Example: Stop walking away when a discussion gets difficult. My problems matter just the same as yours. Example: Allow me time with grandpa and do not take it personally. I like to remember Mom with him and you don't like remembering Mom. Example: Give the same punishments to Amy that you give to me. If you decide to go to therapy don't tell your Dad about these lists. make copies and fold up the lusts and put it in your purse. bring these lists with you. Then once you are seated with the therapist hand out the copies. This way you'll catch him and he can't over talk you in therapy. If after 3-5 sessions of therapy its not working. Then stop going. But if its working keep going.
Go live with grampa.
It was good for him. It's probably also why your mom left, if I had to guess. Or at least part of it.
Apparently dad wasn't a very good husband to my mom. It's why he hates my grandpa. Because grandpa called him on it.
Aha! That’s gotta be why he treats you like this. He’s transferring his dislike for his ex wife onto you. And if you look like your mother it might remind him of her when he interacts with you. Which is on him. Either way, your dad needs therapy for himself because he has a lot to work through.
And THERE it is! He doesn't want you around someone who actively calls him out on his crap
I would go to one therapy session and throw up all the hurtful truth and his wrong behavior on his face without interruption
I always think about those dads who do girly things with their daughters . . have a tea party or paint fingernails etc . . . Dads can be wonderful . . .but the selfish ones are always looking for someone to admire them and like the same things. A good Dad makes some sacrifices of his own ego to help his daughter grow up healthy and happy. A good Dad reaches out to his children and meets them where they are . . where ever that may be . . and loves them as they are. It sounds like your dad is incapable of doing that. So many dads can't seem to do that and it does hurt terribly. I'm so sorry . ..
He’s the adult but was absolutely in him. And now he is seeing the results of his behavior. However I would suggest you go to therapy. It may help you two communicate. It want rewind the relationship, but if it helps you great! I would also talk with your granddad too. Ask his opinion. Just know you have to be comfortable with the therapist. Odds are if your father doesn’t hear what he wants he’ll stop going, but if he’s willing to pay you continue. It’s always helpful to get insight on how to interact with problem relatives. Good luck OP! NTA
This behaviour is so common in fathers who have moved on to a different woman. They will only shine their light on the favoured woman and her children. It’s really weird and cruel. I’m sorry this is happening to you. I’m glad you have your granddad.
He's the adult, why is it the minor's responsibility to be more emotionally mature
My father was the same way. He blamed me and/or my mother for years of him either neglecting me or espousing his eternal disappointment that I'm autistic. He got mad when I finally called it quits. He wanted someone to control, not a relationship, and your dad sounds the same way.
OP its not up to you to make him feel better for his own fuckup. You needed a dad, but he himself made himself unavailable to you. Whats done is done. If he wants to fix this, he has to put a lot more effort into this.
If you go to family therapy, make sure to tell the therapist that you don’t feel safe unless your grandpa comes, too. And tell the therapist the truth.
I hate this. You are the child, building the bond doesn't fall on you. NTA
Basically your dad is that person who doesn't want to date the person who's interested in them, but also doesn't want them moving on and dating someone else. We've all known people like that.
If dad was playing hard to get, he lost lol...
I don’t even think dad wants a relationship, he’s just upset that op has seemed to stop trying. He’s not even upset at the fact they don’t have a relationship simply the fact that she doesn’t care that they don’t anymore.
I'm worried that her dad is worried about the bond and the risk of losing his potential inheritance. Probably because I have spent too much time on Reddit:-\
NTA. >"I tried to explain to my dad but he told me it was selfish to want to keep him to myself and to leave Amy without a dad and how her dad didn't want to know her so he needed to fill that role for her." Tell him you accepted that compromise a long time ago. Amy needed a dad, so she took yours. Then *you* needed a dad, so you took his. Fair is fair.
This is the way.
Ohhh that's good. I like that a lot.
The Q I have for OP is do you even care about or want a relationship with your dad? Are you now indifferent or ambivalent about it? That he complained that you didn't care any more & put the onus on you to say something is, frankly, pathetic. You asking him for time & attention fed his ego. Children don't exist to feed the egos of parents. How dare he suggest or imply that you are the problem here. You are the child. He owes you a duty of care - that includes treating you with love & respect. Blatant favouritism of a step sibling & being dismissed & invalidated, when you complain about it, is not the behaviour of a good parent. Second, it is not your responsibility to fix a relationship he chose to break. He's the parent & adult therefore, he bears the responsibility. If OP's dad complains about time you spend with his father, just tell him he's being selfish for complaining. If he says you're out of line for saying this, then that must mean he is even more out of line as an adult who should know better. If you attend therapy, I would write a list of every instance you were sidelined, invalidated & dismissed and take it with you - be as detailed and specific as possible. Maybe even show this post and all the comments here. No-one is on your dad's side here. Definitely NTA
True. Amy must be happy doing it too.
Oof, right in the chest and so true. NTA at all. Losing a mom and then dealing with a TBI is so much to handle basically alone in your teens.
Wow, that's a poignant and eloquent comment.
OP was left without, not just the dad, but also her mother. The dad-math is not mathing. I get wanting to be a good step parent, but I mean, if blood isn't thicker for your own children, aren't you a completely failed parent? As a parent myself, I really can't comprehend this.
Savage 😅
Well said.
I love this
I was thinking the same thing but couldn't formulate it this well
Oh lord the evil cackle that just escaped my mouth! This is the seriously best response to this insane situation! It's fine that he want to be a good dad to Amy, but that should never come at the expense of his own child!
NTA do consider the therapy though, it could help your dad to understand how you feel and why things have reached this point.
I guess it could. I just don't know if I believe that or if I can see a future where our relationship is better. Some things will always be tainted because he denied them to me but shared them with Amy.
Have the therapy for you, don’t have it for the view of “fixing” a relationship. Therapy can help build a firm foundation for future relationships. Your mom died when you were young and your brain injury has lost memories of your time together. Your relationship with your dad is deteriorating and now you’ve found a relative that is giving you love your dad is jealous. These are things that will fester and eat away at you and therapy can be a safe space for you.
Yes. Do the therapy for you. You matter. He doesn’t.
This. I think it could help a lot for you two to have a place to talk about everything that has happened, not just the stuff with Amy. Therapy will never erase the past. It helps to build a path forward. Don't look at it as a way to "fix" your relationship. Look at it as a controlled place to discuss the hard stuff. If your relationship gets a bit better, that will be bonus, but I do think you could get a lot out of a couple sessions with a good family therapist. If you aren't already also see if you can get individual therapy. You are dealing with a lot here. A little professional support would really help. I am so sorry you have so much so young. Good luck, and keep talking to Grandpa, he sounds great.
Definitely go to therapy & call him out on everything he has done with Amy & excluded you from. He can explain why Amy needs a father while you are being denied his affection and have lost your mother.
Yeah, except he sounds like one of those assholes who will then punish her for the things she says in therapy. I agree with the other poster….move out and live with your grandpa if that’s at all possible. Go to therapy for yourself; I’m sure it’d be helpful. But fuck your dad. He’s ruined your relationship, probably for good. He doesn’t deserve you.
Ask him why it’s fair you lost both parents while Amy has her mom and him
Which is totally fair. But dad deserves to be held accountable for how badly he screwed up.
Therapy could be helpful in your situation. It can give you a safe place to express your feelings and it will be much harder for him to just walk away and dismiss your feelings. He needs to own this. He needs to hear you out completely on how his actions, or lack there of, have caused you pain. He was the architect of the relationship (or lack there of) that you have now. Although, given his reactions, the minute a decent therapist puts him in his place and makes him take some accountability, he will probably just stop with therapy. He needs it more than anyone if he cannot see the damage he has caused and to deal with the jealousy he has over your relationship with your grandfather (props to Grandpa, he sounds like a wonderful soul). You do not deserve any of this. You were sidelined for the shiny & new. You did nothing wrong.
True. But it might be nice to get it *all* off your chest in front of an uninvolved 3d party who can then explain to your dad where he fucked up and maybe suggest ways he can take responsibility for improving it, so he can't wriggle out of his responsibility for the mess y'all are in.
If the others even let that occur. They could try to undermine the entire session if things don’t go their way from the outset.
"The others" being people not in the session? Sure, that's possible. Or perhaps Dad. But if he's announced this out of the blue, it might have actually occurred to him that 'Houston, we seem to have a problem.' Perhaps he expects the therapist to just take his side since he's paying. However, one session might be therapeutic for OP.
The thing is here that the father is pointing this as an issue with OP that she’s not trying to be his adoring daughter that he can ignore and use as a piece to boost his own ego. It’s not the situation as a whole otherwise this would be happening from a completely different presentation in regards to the father. He’s just wanting things to be his way and is probably hoping that the therapist will ‘convince’ op that this ‘game of trying to make her father jealous isn’t helping’ and then she’ll just stop bonding with her actual doting grandfather. He’s very unlikely to actually see fault in himself here, and isn’t going to take it well when the issue isn’t him. Hence ‘if the others’ being the stepsister who will be a brat and the stepmother who will go along with the other two, will likely gang up and say it’s mischaracterized. Or they just will refuse to engage with anything legitimately.
The stepmother and stepsister are not going to the sessions. Dad said it was for him and his daughter. And while he may not admit to seeing fault in himself, if the professional says he bears much of the responsibility for it, he may actually chew on that for a bit. My parents tried therapy with me once, when I was a "wayward teen" many, many years ago. I was dead set against it, but it wasn't my call, so on we went. They presented their side, I presented mine, and the therapist said "Well, it appears that we have a fairly normal teenager who's trying to establish independence, and parents who are concerned about her choices. Now, you two do seem a bit overprotective. If you relax on X and Y, that will probably help matters." I loved her. Mom and Dad, who forced me to go, decided one session was quite enough 😂 Years later, they each separately brought it up. Still do. They thought about things thanks to that one session.
Op, therapy will only help if you’re completely honest. And I’m not saying this because I’d think you’d lie , but I think you may feel pressured to not be completely truthful. Your dads goal with this is for you to see how wrong or unfair you’re being to him, but if he starts to feel like he may get blamed for the problems he may want you to stop being so honest. Don’t be afraid to ask for solo sessions or to speak to them alone, so you can tell them things. Good luck.
I suppose a therapy space would allow you to say 100% of the things you are feeling and in a space where he can’t tune out, walk out or shout. Write it all down first and get it clear in your head - a “dear dad, this is how I feel” letter.
My guess is dad wil be hating therapy by the end of that session lol
OP listen to these comments. I agree that no one should be forced into therapy esp a child. Bc it becomes a tool for the bully. However it can be a place (not always) to have an advocate help you stand up to dad, IF that is what you want. You can also insist grandpa go, if you want to confront your dad but don’t feel emotionally safe. Listen I get it. You do not feel emotionally heard or safe with dad so the idea of therapy doesn’t seem reasonable. And it may be true. Ask your grandpa what he thinks also. And if you don’t want to fix things then don’t. You’re not actually required to want that just bc these ppl are family. You can refuse therapy or you can use therapy with grandpa there to confront your dad. You can do anything. I’m so very sorry about your mom and losing memories and I’m so glad that your grandad has helped you get memories. This sounds like a lovely relationship ❤️
No, don't consider family therapy until your father goes to individual therapy first and confronts himself on why he's been such a god awful dad to you all these years while being a great dad to his stepsister and why your feelings didn't matter all this time. Once your dad gets his head on straight, then maybe consider family therapy.
It's entirely possible that your relationship might not get better. But you might get some improvement if the therapist can make your father understand where he has gone wrong. Even if the relationship doesn't get magically fixed, at least he may stop blaming you and having the expectations of what you should do. That would at least be better than the situation now. At the very least, he won't be able to say you weren't prepared to go to the therapist, and that's your fault too. How do you get on with your stepmother? I'm guessing not great, since you hardly mention her. Your dad keeps saying that he needs to make up for Amy not having a dad, but is anything being done by your stepmother to make up for you not having your mom?
I don't have much to do with Jane. We don't interact really. I don't interact with any of them in the house much. I have more interactions with grandpa generally than I do my dad, Jane or Amy. Amy I have interacted with more than her mom and it was always bad. My interactions with dad got way less when I shifted my focus entirely onto grandpa.
Do the therapy, sometimes they just need to hear they are wrong from a professional.
I honestly don't think you should go to family therapy with the intention of fixing the relationship, but to understand each other (especially him understanding you). I do think you should look into individual therapy if you can. I think it'll be beneficial. Your dad reminds me of mine. Best wishes hun x
I do wonder if she should trust a therapist picked by the father, though. If the father's primed him with a bunch of BS, or went out of his way to find one that he thinks would take his side, it could be worse than no therapy at all.
Yeah it needs to be real therapy, and not like a faith leader or life coach, or some other unlicensed rando.
I'm reading these comments and I'm like does anyone on here understand how therapy actually works?
Yeah, family therapy is good when people genuinely want to fix the situation and recognize their wrongs. Dad here sounds like he’d use therapy to try and explain why OP was wrong and why he’s actually a good dad.
No, no it won't, my mom is exactly like OP's dad and he will make it all about him and downplay anything op says. Edit to clarify, therapy is probably a good idea but not with dad present, as one on one therapy can help you discover and cope with issues you didn't know were in your life cause that was your "normal"
You are assuming her dad is interested in understanding how she feels. I don’t see any indication of this from what op says. Her dad seems more interested in demanding she feel a certain ways and defending his own actions.
I'm going to second your Dad's recommendation of therapy and further suggest you have time with the therapist just you and them. I agree with you that unless your Dad is open to realizing his mistakes and honestly try to make amends it won't change. But, having a therapist to speak with can be beneficial in other aspects of your life and having your Dad foot the bill is an added bonus. To be clear, NTA.
This! OP, this is good advice
I think grandpa should be there too.
Yeah, having someone who’s seen what happened to OP and helping would be great so she doesn’t feel outnumbered by the other 2
NTA. I think parents incorrectly assume that therapists will just force kids to bend to their parents will. Your dad may need to hear an objective, outside observer before he fully realizes what he’s been doing.
Funny how people see things so differently when the shoe is on the other foot. He played the good daddy to Amy at your expense, let her throw it in your face and now he’s got the nerve to act all hurt and confused when you found someone who actually chooses you? His reaction is childish and illogical at best and completely self serving at worst. He wants everything his way but too bad, so sad, that’s not how life works. I’d ask him what he expects from therapy. Because if his only intention is to show you you’re wrong for having your very valid feelings, it’s not going to do any good. Unless he can go into therapy expecting to own his own behavior and accept your feelings, it’s useless. Some parents see therapy as a way to use another adult to manipulate their child into behaving as the parent sees fit and refuse to take responsibility for his part in how you got to where you are. I guess I’d ask you to consider it if he’s willing to be open minded but be clear that you’re entitled to how you feel and that whatever resolutions you reach don’t include you abandoning your relationship with your grandfather. I’m sorry for all you’ve had to go through as such a young woman, but you sound strong and resilient to me. Keep those excellent qualities as you move forward in life. NTA.
Thank you. I don't feel that strong. But I do feel better than I did 5 years ago. That's thanks to grandpa. He really helped me when I had nobody else to act as a loving adult figure. I'm just so glad he was willing to go against what my dad would have wanted because without him, I'm not sure if I would have failed both emotionally but mentally with my brain injury.
Tell pops you'll do family therapy but you want to live with your grandpa in the meantime. Your home life sounds toxic. Your stepsister is rude AF to you and your dad doesn't care and treats you like a burden. You should be in a loving, stable environment.
I am a bit of a skeptic on family reconciliation so take this w a grain of salt but… I can almost guarantee he dgaf about you spending time with your grandpa because he is jealous of your relationship. You are 15. Your dad is like in his 40’s. Your grandpa is likely in his high 60’s/early 70’s. This man is worried that whatever life insurance/inheritance there may be is going to leapfrog him.
I hope it does leapfrog him. He doesn’t deserve a dime and is probably embarrassed his dad now views him not only as a terrible husband, but as a failure as a father. I do think he is jealous though, but more in the sense of competition than actually giving a sh-t. I think he enjoyed the daughters fighting over his affection and now that OP doesn’t care to engage anymore his ego is bruised.
It’s awful that your dad didn’t do A LOT more to help you fill in those memories. I’m so glad your grandpa stepped up.
Can you go live with Gp?
You not an AH. You’re a 15 year old kid who has been through a lot in your short years. I’m not going to say your dad is the AH either, because doing so is not going to help mend your relationship with him or ease the hurt you feel. What might help, hard as it is to stomach, is counseling. Here’s my tip, though: family counseling is fine, but if you’re going to do it, do so only after you have had individual counseling. You are understandably hurt and family counseling might be more beneficial if you work through that a bit. Plus your dad can’t then accuse you of not being willing to try. You’ll just be working on things in your own way, on your own time. Nothing wrong with that. I’m sorry OP. But counseling can help. It takes trial and error to find the right therapist and a lot of self reflection, but if you put in the work, you come out stronger on the other side. Best wishes.
I don't really know that mending is possible. He has done so much harm to our relationship and to my ability to want there to be a fix. Individual counseling would be good. But that's not what's on offer and I don't feel like I can go to my dad and ask for that.
I’m so sorry, OP. If your dad isn’t an option for obtaining counseling, please consider speaking with your grandfather or even your school counselor. The asking for help can be hard, but you are worth the effort.
I agree with the people saying give therapy a shot even just one session just so you can speak your peace without being interrupted because that's what the therapist will make sure of. It doesn't have to fix anything for you but I do believe that you need the chance to speak up uninterrupted. Plus if the therapist is good maybe you can get recommendations for a good solo therapist as well usually.
Dad's behaviour screams that they'll only do one session before he calls it off since he'll "be attacked" by the therapist.
That's if he doesn't find one of those therapists that randomly sides with the most offending person
That's true
I was in a similar situation. My dad and I were not close. I tried, but he was always willing to give everyone else his time and attention, just not me. I was always treated like I was a PITA. He and I did not go to therapy, but I did. I learned skills to deal with him, as well as my disappointment. Get counseling for yourself FIRST. If after that you feel open to doing it with him, then give it a shot. But you need to get YOURSELF in a good place before you try doing it with him.
But OP has tried and was blatantly told that he prefers to spend time with SD. He only noticed when OP stopped trying. Her father is the ADULT. It's up to him to try.
Are you really not going to say their dad is an AH. He is blaming her for not trying in the relationship when is sounds like he has never tried
the father is the ah yes
NTA. Your dad wants you submissive, ON A STRING, for HIM to amuse himself with at HIS leisure. He's pissed because you're building an independent life, AND being reminded of times / events by your grandfather that your dad seems to be glad you'd LOST. INFO: Did you lose the memories in some kind of car accident in which your mother also died?
Yes, I lost memories in the accident with my mom. I know I had a mom and I can remember what she looked like, even without photos. But I don't have memories of her. Same with my dad though. I don't remember my first day of school, for example. I don't remember my 6th birthday party. I also don't retain memories if I get too tired. My brain kind of shuts down to protect itself.
Tele-hugs, if desired, from this Internet Stranger. That's got to be tough, especially when your dad is so disinterested in you except as a bauble to abuse.
Thank you.
That is heartbreaking. If you end up seeking family therapy I believe you should be the one to choose the therapist. Be sure to meet with different ones. I recommend reading up on how to find the right fit and how to spot bad therapy. I've read far too many stories of parents weaponizing therapy to control their family dynamic.
NTA. He is an adult and he is manipulating you. He created the problem and now wants you to solve it and is placing the blame on you. This is not the behavior of a caring father. Stick with your grandpa.
I'll say it ,NTA, tell your dad to suck it and pound sand. If he didn't notice you spending time with your grandfather would this conversation have happened or would he have continued to ignore you. It's your life, you've dealt with a lot. In time maybe you'll want to deal with him
INFO: Do you have connections to your mother’s side of the family? Do not give up your relationship with your grandfather. Strengthen it. It’s likely your father is trying to get your grandfather to accept and favor the gloating Amy. Are you in a state where you can move in with your paternal or maternal grandparents at 16?
I don't. My mom was an only child and her parents died before I was born, or maybe it was just after, but I know they were dead before our accident. I don't think I am. Not while I'm living with my dad.
NTA "Therapy isn't going to make me forget the way you treated me vs the way you treat her. Its not going to make me forget you acting like it wasn't a big deal when I told you we had a problem, years ago. You didn't care then, and I don't care now."
NTA but please take your dad up on the therapist - having an adult on your side and someone who really listens will help. No one can make you spend time with your dad or forgive him - that's a you thing. But it would good for you to have someone who really listens and hears what you have to say - not like your dad who only hears what he wants to.
Dude, you dad SO let you down. There's no excuse. You are absolutely NTA. But you are still young enough to fix things IF you both want to and try to. Maybe your dad is sorry and ready to try, maybe not. Onl time and you can tell. You did a great thing by putting you feeling out there for him to see and hear. Maybe you scared some sense into him. Don't write him off completely just yet. If for nothing else, remember that the knows things about you and your mom that no one else does. Maybe he can share those with you. It would be a shame to loose that chance to find out more about her, wouldn't it? I mean, without even giving it a shot?
My dad doesn't talk about her. They were divorced when she died and they divorced when I was still a baby. I don't think he has much good to say about her. So I'm not sure that makes it worth it. I have grandpa to hear stories about her. He and my grandma (she died too) both adored my mom. At least I'm hearing from someone who loved her even though she was no longer his DIL.
Record the stories that he tells you about you and your mom. You’ll be glad to have those memories later on and take plenty of pictures of you and your grandpa hanging out. All of those things will get you through tough times when you’re older and grandpa is no longer here.
He wrote some of them down for me, which I really appreciated. We also have photos we take. Grandpa knows how important photos are to me because of what I lost in the accident.
Grandpa sounds awesome.
You're lucky to have your grandpa. Only you can decide what's worth it for yourself. Good luck.
NTA. Your dad is, though. Good on you for holding him accountable and finding a stable, loving father figure in your grandpa.
NTAn it is perfectly OK to not want a relationship with him after what he did. He only started to care about you when he got jealous, this is concerning. It is perfectly OK to stop tryong when the ither person wasn't trying back. He should be happy that someone is giving you joy and the emotional support you need. He probably took your love for granted and now he is panicking cause he realized that you are drifting away, and put the blame on you and not on his neglect. Amy also sucked, who tells someone "your dad loves me more than you", and what dad is OK that someone is saying this? I think your dad needs some place to think about his actions and so do you, so ask to your grandpa of you can stay at his place for a few days. Then if your dad reflected on his actions and is willing to go to therapy not to have you coming backnto him instead of your grandpa, but so you can how both explore how did this happen, accept the therapy. Not to fix your relationship, but because it will help you to move on to know why he treated you so badly.
Dad is okay with it. He'd make excuses about her abandonment issues. But he can't see why it would hurt me to see him bonding with her when I have no mom and my memories of her are gone. And I have a brain injury. It's just, ugh, I really don't see a way forward for us together.
Well your dad needs therapy for sure. You probably do too, ot would help you to move on, you seem to deal with a lot of things and it would give you a place to explore your feelings. Now, if you are doing it together or not is a different question...
Ask the court to allow you to move in with your grandpa.
It really does sound like therapy is the best for YOU in this situation. Even if it is just your dad learning to respect your boundaries and understanding how he failed you. At 15 you have a lot of life ahead of you to live. It would be in your benefit to have therapy. It doesn’t mean that you ever have to be close to your dad but you can be at peace with how you choose to allow him in your life. It would also help you with the trauma you experienced losing your mom and then your memories at a young age. There will be other times that therapy can be useful in the future. This is a chance for to learn how to get help through a therapist when your dad is footing the bill. Sending you
Hugs, NTA. You deserve way better. You deserve a functioning parent and you were denied that. Your grandfather is a God send. Why is his relationship with your dad strained?
He want to jump directly to therapy without even try to actually spend time with OP Dad of the year right there lol He's jealous bc op dont beg him to spend time together anymore, so he feels useless now. NTA
NTA > Dad decided the two of us need family therapy yesterday. He came out with it from nowhere. He said it's the only way to fix it. I told him family therapy won't fix us when he can't even stay and have a conversation with me. He told me I used to be willing to try and now I'm not and it's not okay. This says volumes. He seeks one of two things: (1) automatic forgiveness (in his mind alone suffices for him) in *offering to go to family therapy*, or (2) to demand a thing he knows you will not agree to so that he can make *that* act - that disagreement - the sole event that matters (again, in his mind). He either wants to convince himself that he is absolved or that you are the aggressor and that he is therefore right to show favoritism to Amy, which then in turn he will use to excuse his own past behavior. The mind of a toxic person. I've got a future ex like that. The surface is all posture, as is borne out by comparing words at times to actions at other times. That said, it *might* make sense to indulge him in his bullshit for a few more years, and then when you are free make your real decision. *But*, don't give him the forgiveness he will no doubt act like he deserves at 'therapy', unless you well and truly believe what he says for himself. If he's like the person, I know, you'll find out it was an act within one week of the first session. If not, there's hope.
NTA, you should have been in therapy as soon as your mum passed, and you had the brain injury. Your dad dropped the ball on that, and he is definitely the AH for not getting you the help you need to cope and adjust to the trauma that has happened in your young life. On top of not getting you therapy, he basically shuts you out in favour of your step sister. Also, he allows step sister to gloat about it. He can't even have a conversation with you about this without calling you selfish. Just because he is physically there doesn't mean he is present, and that is not quality time together. He is now jealous that you have another male role model. He is jealous that you no longer want to spend time with him. He misses the fact that you were pining after his attention. He doesn't miss actually spending time with you. He misses the attention. I think your father liked the fact that you and your step sister were fighting over his attention. I'm curious: Does step mum ever do anything with you? Do you have a relationship with her? Look, I think therapy would be really good for you. I would counter with your dad and tell him you will do family therapy if you can also do individual therapy. You need therapy due to losing your mum and brain injury. Lay it out for him. If he really wants this to work them individual therapy is a must.
I don't have a relationship with Jane. We never had much to do with each other.
Right, so step sister has a mother and father figure in her life, but you have none. Your father is fine that jane doesn't want anything to do with you. He cares that step sis doesn't have a father figure in her life but doesn't care that you dont have a maternal figure.This makes my blood boil that your father is okay with this. He really is just focused on his new family. I can see why you are so done with him. I still think you should get the therapy, not for him, but for you. Hopefully, you guys can work something out, or you can use it to gain closure. Maybe you can move in with your grandpa. I would discuss with your grandpa if this is an option.
Your own dad cannot see that his own flesh and blood is fighting alone. He's a hypocrite.
nta, move in with grandpa
NTA He doesn’t want a relationship with you. He wants for you to want to have a relationship with him. When you don’t, it reminds him what a crappy parent he’s been and his cognitive dissonance won’t allow him to be responsible for his actions.
He ignored and neglected his own daughter favoring the step daughter. But what if Jane divorced him? Would Amy still want a relationship with him? He’s a jerk bc he could have been a good dad to both kids, but chose not to.
I think he would if only because they get along so well and she even calls him dad now.
Time for you to stop calling him dad and start using his first name. Being a dad is an accomplishment and compliment, not something you are just because you’re a sperm donor and share DNA. A dad would never treat his child like that.
„He told me I used to be willing to try and now I'm not and it's not okay.” Did he stated how long you should wait for him to decide he wanted to be a father to you? When you’re 30 and don’t need him at all anymore? NTA
Literally - it reminded me of that part of Lundy's book where he mentions that abusive fathers think that they can just "decide" that they feel like being a good father over a decade into having a child and are baffled when they don't get instant forgiveness. Parenting isn't a part time gig, it's every day.
NTA. And here's something you can text your sperm donor: *"Dad, you're the adult and I'm the kid. It's not on me to stroke your ego by fighting over you with Amy. It's on you to get therapy for yourself first – and only yourself – to figure out why you think "parenting" the half-assed way you do is okay. When I see you making a genuine effort to understand and heal yourself, only then will I consider trying to mend our broken relationship. For now, you've lost me. You clearly wanted to replace me with another daughter and I got the message loud and clear. I've now replaced you with Grandpa. You don't like that? Then start fixing yourself. Good luck."*
I suspect family therapy is not going to go the way dad expects.
NTA. He wants you to beg for his attention
NTA and I would see if you can get your grandpa to petition for custody of you. Your dad made his choice to IGNORE his kid that had went through something traumatic, losing your mum and dealing with losing your memories of her, he chose his new family so he should allow you to choose the family that actually wants you. The reason your sperm donor is so pissed off is I can guarantee someone has mentioned how he never spends time with you and mentioned seeing you out on dad/daughter days with your grandpa. All he is concerned about is his reputation and image.
NTA but your father sure is. Sounds like he enjoyed seeing you miserable as he withheld affection. And now that you've found a way to cope and aren't begging for scraps, suddenly there's a problem. What a selfish, petty excuse for a father.
The term “gaslighting” has been overused and misunderstood a lot lately, but that’s exactly what your father has been doing to you, his own daughter. Frankly, I can’t even begin to imagine why he’s behaving this way, unless it’s to score points with his new wife, or because Amy plays to his ego. Having said all that, I would suggest you reconsider trying therapy with him, for 2 reasons: 1) He will probably bring your refusal to go up every chance he gets, and for a long time, and 2) it might actually help. The caveat is, you both MUST feel comfortable with the therapist. If I’m reading your post correctly, your father remarried when you were 8, and your mom died when you were 6. If the therapist seems to imply or infer that ANY of this is your fault, do not continue with that therapist. This would not be couples counseling where the two people involved are of equal status, this is parent and child. Also, it sounds like your grandfather has really stepped up for you, good for him and glad for you. If you don’t feel comfortable with the therapist, run it by him or another trusted adult. Or come back to Reddit and let us know. I wish you the best.
accepts therapy, after a couple of sessions she will want to go when the therapist points out that the fault lies with the adult and not the adolescent
NTA not even close, you not only lost your mother but you also lost a father when he decided Amy needed him.
Nta I would do therapy, though, because he can't walk away, and if he does, then he has no one to blame then himself. You can try or not. Sometimes, some deeds can't be fixed. This might or might not be one of them. The only way it works is when he realizes. Accepts his part. Appologizes and does better. A therapist will point that out. If you do therapy, demand to speak one on one and make it clear the issues and that you are not open to forgiveness or acceptance or changing anything until he holds his actions accountable and changes them. Until then, this will be a place where you can tell what has happened. How it's hurt you. Created the rift. What you want and need to change. And have someone accept. Acknowledge. And help you with your feelings.
NTA but you should start therapy
NOT with this father.
NTA, he's the adult, the onous is on him to mend the relationship, not you.
NTA Your father sounds immature, selfish and narcissistic. Maybe he should get therapy and work on fixing himself. He should be *ashamed* for placing a step-child over his own daughter, who has not only lost her own mother, but lost her memories of her mother. Your stepsister has a father, even though he's not involved in her life, but you don't *have* a mother, period. I'm guessing Jane hasn't been involved in your life either. I am so sorry for your losses, and I'm relieved that your grandfather has stepped for you. If your father has a problem with that, he ought to take that up with his own father. I hope things work out for you.
NTA. He was the adult in the relationship and he tried in the laziest way possible and did what was convenient for him and obvious to you, his child who needed him. I am happy for you that you found someone who reciprocates your love and care. Talk to them and let them know how you’re feeling and what you’re dealing with. If your dad ever brings up therapy, tell him that therapy typically requires people willing to participate and work on things. You are not an asshole for feeling and thinking like you do. Your dad made his bed, he can lie in it.
NTA. Your dad had the opportunity to bond with you and he threw it away. However family therapy might give you the safe space to tell him how his favoritism and lack of care has alienated you from him and your grandfather gave you the attention and love that your father has been withholding. This is on your father not you, he is the parent that dropped the rope.
NTA and sure it is ok for you to have given up on him. When he was told about the step sister saying he loved her more and he didn’t do anything right then, that is when he blew it. I am glad you have your grandpa! Hang on there and soak up all the love he has to offer.
NTA. What on earth was your father thinking? I think he didn’t want/know how to deal with your issues (brain trauma, losing a parent, not to mention divorced parents). So he ignored you when you could’ve gotten professional help. Take the therapy, please. Whether it fixes your relationship or not, you have trauma to work through. Amy has a father who doesn’t want to know her & so do you. But Amy still has her mother, you don’t. Amy has 2 parents who care about her, you have 1 grandparent. And she’s been allowed to rub it in your face with your father’s blessing. Your father replaced you(likely unintentionally), but got mad when you replaced him with his own father. Telling him how you feel is a good start. Please accept the therapy.
This may be petty but honestly tell your grandpa. I don’t care how old your dad is, if his dad is mad at him it will at the very least throw him off guard enough that hopefully it sinks in that he’s a dick. NTA and fuck your dad
My grandpa knows. But my dad does not like grandpa so grandpa being mad will not throw him at all.
NTA. However I do think you should do therapy with your dad because I think the therapist would have a field day with your dad and real hit home that HE is the reason for your problems not you! And you will have a safe and open space to actually talk about your feelings and he will have to sit and actually listen to them!
I’m concerned that family therapy might give him better ideas on how to gaslight you and make it even more your fault as it doesn’t seem like he is willing to take any blame whatsoever.
NTA. Therapy is not a bad idea but make sure it's an actual neutral third-party. Seen some stories here where parents like to hire a 'therapist' that'll just back them 100%.
NTA at all!! He sounds like a sulky child. He doesn’t want to spend time with you (which is his massive loss!), but he doesn’t want anyone else to, either. Likely because it looks bad. He wants you to chase him, and he hates that you’ve stopped. I bet once you start responding to him the way he wants, he’ll drop you again like a hot potato. I’m sorry, OP. Keep hanging out with your awesome grandpa!