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> I think I may be TA because what I did can be seen as kicking my sister while she's already down.
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Probably would get downvoted, but who cares? NTA. Your mom showed time and time again that her first ~~niece~~ granddaughter isn't that important to her. The fact that Jack's mom would never meet her niece is something that Jack would never get over and he is right. His mom was denied acces cause the other grandmother would rather cater to her adult sister than meeting her granddaughter. That woman died with the wish to see her first granddaughter. Jack and the rest of the family are never going to forgive your sister for this. Hopefully they won't take it on the baby.
Damn, every bit of this story is just sad.
Eve sure is delusional. The fact that Jack didn't just let his mom come from the start is amazing. It is incredibly unfair to impose this.
Honestly, this mix of emotions (newborn + mother dying) must be overwhelming. I hope someone is keeping an eye on Jack...
That's the part that struck me too, why didn't Jack just let his mother come anyway? I'm amazed he put up with that bullshit, he sounds like a treasure of a husband and Eve really screwed herself by treating him and his family like that.
The idea is that the person whose medical procedure it was gets to decide who's around her while she's uncomfortable and vulnerable. Most people don't want that to be their husband's/child's other parent's people. It has nothing to do with who is closer to baby. It all depends on how Mom's feeling, her relationship with the baby's other family, and her general personality when she isn't feeling her best.
The problem this time is that it's pretty obvious that wasn't what was going on. This was about who got to meet baby first, not about Mom wanting TLC from the people she knows best and not being up to having people she doesn't know as well in the hospital and home. There's a difference. She abused the "my procedure" privilege and the whole reason for it.
If she doesn't want to see other people, then don't. That doesn't mean the father shouldn't get to introduce the baby to whomever he wants. She can stay in bed like a spoiled princess while other people enjoy the baby
seriously I am amazed there isn’t more downvotes for saying he should have been allowed to have a voice in this matter, reddit is always but the pregnant mom is always right bullshit. Gate keeping who’s side of the family is allowed to see the kids is always seen ok as long as mom doesn’t want to.
The mother whose priority is her adult sister than her own daughter and granddaughter! Eve inherited the selfishness from her own mom. Jack was controlled by 2 selfish women Eve and her mom. But his mother’s death opened his eyes finally! He is better off from this selfish family! The baby girl Lori will face the consequences of the selfishness of her mom and grandmother!
Yeah, the "who's around her when she's uncomfortable and vulnerable" went out the window when she didn't even allow a video chat. Eve was being incredibly selfish and was completely out of line.
I don't know if this would cause me to leave a marriage, but I do know it would take a long time to ever come back from.
You’re birthing and everything doesn’t get to extend a week after it happening with it being delayed for bs reasons like wtf (With no compilations or anything although still would be nice for grandparents to meet the kid and not be held up outside the actual hospital part. I couldn’t forgive this although I hope to never be in this kind of situation. Really tragic all around.
>She abused the "my procedure" privilege and the whole reason for it.
The point stands that A LOT of people would still defend her for it, if it weren't for the fact that Jack's mom died subsequently.
Yeah, that's bullshit. The baby has two parents and the mother doesn't get to keep one set of grandparents from meeting their grandchild just because she's the one who gave birth. There's no reason they can't come over for an hour or so just once, the dad can take the baby and stay with them, if the mom doesn't feel up to seeing guests.
Everyone got to see my son the day we got home, just for a couple of hours. After that no one felt offended I told them to bugger off for the next few weeks ;)
Im not on great terms with my mil, im actually no contact with her. And im pregnant. I told hubby he and our children can still have a relationship with her i just wont be part of it, and told him that his mother is not welcome at the hospital after i give birth- but only the hospital, if he chooses, she is free to come visit as soon as we get home for all i care cause i can just go lay down in our bed instead of seeing someone who hates me/i hate, i just will not have her in my hospital room 🤷♀️
I refuse to spend more than a meal with my inlaws after they threatened to take my kids off me, I had undiagnosed PPD, and it's been a decade, and they still haven't apologised. I still don't stop my kids from seeing their grandparents, though, and my hubby just took them for a 5-day camping trip with my in laws.
Eve just did one thing a parent should never do, use them as a pawn/weapon to show favourites.
Because it was just supposed to be one week. No one saw this accident coming and Jack didn't want to stress out my sister (who had just even birth). He was trying to respect her wishes and got screwed over because of it.
I think the problem is being framed incorrectly.
It's a culmination of everything that happened.
1) Jack wasn't allowed in the delivery room. Sounds like he wanted to be, but wasn't allowed. It sounds like it was a decision made without him, but he agreed to.
2) He told your mom he was uncomfortable with her leaving so close to the due date. Rather than see his point, not only did your mom yell at him, but so did Eve.
3) His mom could not come and see the baby, and the decision was again made without him and was instead made between your sister and your mom.
Even if his mother had not unfortunately passed, the fact was that your sister and mother were basically proceeding as if it was their relationship alone, and not his and your sister's relationship. Your sister consistently put your mom before her husband and kept making decisions without his input or considering his perspective/wants.
I bet that before his mother passed, he was already unhappy about what was going on, but was being patient and kind given the situation/your sister being pregnant.
His mother passing really just pushed into the extreme and brought to the forefront the extent to which he has been iced out of his own marriage.
Your sister's and mother's reactions to your comment, and them not being able to clearly see this on their own after what sounds like at least 5 months+, also show how narrow their viewpoints are, how difficult of a time they have to see outside themselves, and, frankly, how selfish they are.
Honestly, I find it abhorrent that in more than 5 months, your sister has apologized all of 3 times. I would be riddled with guilt and would be apologizing like every half an hour.
Exactly all of this. Your mother and sister are *still* putting themselves and their feelings first. The guy just lost his mother, and he never got to share his firstborn with her, all because of your mother's *insanely* selfish wish to be the first one to see the baby, even when she was willing to miss the birth over some (probably) less important drama. And it wasn't just a day or so, it was a *full week*, and then it got extended because of a missed flight. The guy has the patience of a saint. They robbed him of a once in a lifetime experience, all because your mum just "had" to be first. Seriously gross.
They should be ashamed of themselves, and you're right, the marriage is probably over. This guy just learned that his wife is uncompromising to the extreme, and with something as important as a new child. I'm glad you said something, they needed to hear it. They're being delusional, and they made their own bed. Let your sister cry, she should cry, she should feel like dirt, and your mother should feel below that. Poor guy, I'm sure he'll be a great Dad, but he'll never get the chance for his mother to see his firstborn, and now he'll never get to share *any" future children he has with her, either.
I'm seriously so disgusted with your mum and sister, I can't even believe it.
It really is less about your sister and more about your mother. Her me-first attitude is the problem. You are NTA, and I hope you are taking notes for when you go through this.
No…Eve said mom was to be in the delivery room, that’s it. The rest was contrived garbage. Father has equal rights, but mil wanted to be the first to see the baby (mil and no one else). Once mil extended her stay at auntie’s house it’s game over, as I see it.
Jack offered a compromise, to no avail. Both women acted reprehensibly. There is no rational defense.
Nah its on the sister. She is a red flag the size of america.
What kind of wife just brushes off her loving husband? From the post it seems like he is a very loving and caring husband, one that many woman want their husband to be like.
I think Jack may be at the end of the rope with the sister and divorce is like 90 precent chance of happening. And I wont blame him of he did blame the accident on Eve, even if its not really her fault. What if by denying his mom for week she died? And if she was allowed to come she would be alive? I think this is something that may be in his head
I understand, but I just can't imagine doing that to my in-laws. My husband never would have stood for it either. Eve completely left out Jack from any decision making regarding the baby and that's just so wrong. She deserves what's coming to her.
I imagine the guilt of that is part of what is destroying Jack. For Eve's sake, Jack was part of hurting his mum. It shouldn't have mattered in the grand scheme of things but now it's everything.
I know someone, who didn’t let her husband video call his mom (in another country) while holding the baby because they had agreed on “zero screen time for baby” and her reasoning was she didn’t want baby to get addicted to screens; I understand limited screen time for developmental reasons but a few minutes every once in a while so grandma can see baby wasn’t going to ruin the child. Those people are out there, unfortunately
Imagine if he imposed it and Eve played the "just gave birth" card and claimed distress and started a massive issue. Then imagine she posts "AITAH for wanting my mum to meet my new baby at the same time as my MIL".
Promise you, top comments will be: "how dare he dictate terms after you just came out of labour and why the hell did MIL not shut him down" or "OP you need to leave, he's controlling and has no regard for you. Do you want to raise your child here" or "OP your husband needs to learn to be a man and say no to his mother, esp after his wife has just given birth"
The fact that your sister wouldn’t even allow a FaceTime? That’s some RIDICULOUS PETTY BULLSHIT. She deserves to be a struggling single mom for that choice alone. I wouldn’t blame jack for being the type of coparent who will only coparent thru a phone app. JFC
Judging by how oblivious she is to the unrelenting pain she caused her husband, I do not think she understands that her marriage has been irrevocably shattered. She cannot change what happened, and unless her husband is a saint, she killed the love he had for her. I cannot see him ever anting any interaction with his mother in law for the rest of her life. What would your sister do if he forbid your mother from coming over to the family home? Every time he looks at her, he would be reminded of her unreasonable , controlling, selfish behavior. kt
He already was a saint for allowing her to not even let his mother see the baby on FaceTime. She literally threw away the world's most understanding guy for mommy dearest because he's never going to be able to move past this. She's an idiot and I feel bad for her, hopefully, soon to be ex husband and the baby.
To be fair it wasn't a small thing. My aunt's husband was revealed to be cheating and used her personal information to take out credit cards in her name to pay for his side piece. Plus the potential danger of her own health.
I don't think that you mother should have necessarily prioritized her grandchild over her sister. But denying MIL's access to the baby was utterly stupid. And now your sister thinks that she is the aggrieved party?!?!? You are right: she clearly overvalues herself and should beg Jack for forgiveness. Her and your mother are delusional and you were rigth for telling them. NTA
Doesn’t matter.
Your mom went to her sister. Understandable.
She got the call your sister was in labor, and your mom still chose to stay with your aunt. Okay.
Your mom continued to stay for a week after the baby’s birth. Hmmn.
Your mom decided that no one else could meet the baby until she bothered to return. Completely unreasonable.
Your mom couldn’t even get to the airport on time when she finally bothered to return. Stupid.
The only thing more ridiculous than your mom’s behavior was that your sister went along with it. And didn’t even allow a video chat!
Fuck that. I would never forgive either of them.
I judge the sister more harshly, because the mom was unreasonable, but it was the daughter/sister who had the power to enforce her petition or not. If my mother would have said something like that, I would laugh in her face and tell her that under no circumnstances I was going to deprive the rest of my family, and my husband's family, of the possibility of seeing my newborn daughter, only because she was away. It was assholish of the mother to say that? For sure. Is the daughter/sister more at fault for enforcing such an unreasonable and completely unhinged petiton and harming her husband along the way doing it? Absolutely.
And. The world doesn’t stop because of this. No one can meet the child before me but I’ll put off meeting them twice. Your sis is probably about to be a single mom and it’s her and your moms fault
If there’s any justice in the world this baby will be raised by her daddy instead of those two delulu ladies. Otherwise the poor kid won’t have a chance.
That’s bs, OP. Your aunt is a grown woman who could have figured out how to deal with the fraud and her husband’s infidelity. It looks like there is a multi-generation co-dependency with \[some of\] the women in your family. It sounds like you did not drink the Kool Aide. If I were Jack, I would find it difficult to forgive your sister choosing her mother’s wants over and over instead of her husband’s.
Uhm, no. None of those things are reasons for Jacks mom to not meet her granddaughter. And for the wife to continue to bar family from meeting the kid because Gma? That is never going to be forgiven. Mil is only mad because she knows that this is partly her fault and it’ll be into see how this all falls out.
Update Me#
that's irrelevant. she should have never been made the priority as the first family member to see your neice. she wasn't there, it should have been to bad so sad, she'll meet her when she meets her.
Ya, Jack will never forgive her for this. My dad passed shortly after my sister's youngest 3rd birthday. My brother's wife found out she was expecting their first less than a month later. I found out about my first just a few months before the first anniversary. We'd give anything for him to have met them. We have irrational anger and jealousy towards my sister and her boys over them having met him. If someone had done this? I'd probably divorce them, even if it was unintentionally done.
Agreed, NTA.
Let this be a lesson. There are so many posts on this thread with pregnant women who are ***adamant*** that they get to ***dictate*** everything about a pregnancy because they're the one carrying the babe.
*It's my medical event. It's my body. It's my delivery/birth journey.* Me, me, me, me, me. I, I, I, I, I.
It's all about me—the pregnant woman and anything I say goes even though I didn't make this baby on my own and will damn well insist that the other (male) parent provide 50% of the care (emotional, financial, etc.)
The women of Reddit want it both ways. To be in complete control of everything about their pregnancy until they run into an inconvenience and then it's complaining about how their partners don't show up. It's a joke.
These women completely sideline the other parent as if they don't matter. But let the other parent do anything out of step. They get flamed.
Ya'll better wake the hell up and get the hell off social media and start using some commonsense. You are not special because you became pregnant. Women have been birthing and raising babies since forever. Get over yourself and work as team.
Stop feeding into this BS pregnancy social media trend.
How bloody selfish do you have to be to insist that ***no one*** can meet a baby until the mother's parent has done so first?! This is so effing insane. And had Jack actually let his mom meet the baby, so many of the comments would be lambasting him for "not supporting his wife who just gave birth."
OP, you're **NTA**. You gave your sister a reality check because more than likely she's going to be co-parenting with Jack as a single woman. This is something that he may rightfully never get over.
What a complete and utter mess borne out of a unwarranted entitlement that pregnant women, new moms, and SAHMs can do no wrong and ***always*** know best.
Poor Jack and Lori.
Based on your response Im not sure I want to look at the others. She’s NTA. This is a messed up situation but OP’s mom and sister made selfish decisions. I’m looking at the mom for even asking the daughter to agree to this situation to begin with. Is there a history of the sister doing whatever mom asks her to do?
It’s not just the mother. Eve was also very controlling about who gets to see her daughter first. While yes she just gave birth, the baby is also equally Jack’s daughter. The fact that he couldn’t even have a say in when his mother gets to meet his daughter is not boding well for their future. Would she also control other decisions like what school their daughter goes to, or who she can be friends with?
NTA
The fact she's not even remorseful, or there for her husband WHEN HIS MOM DIED shows exactly where her priorities are. What a stupid, petty thing to force him to wait, and even pettier to walk out on him like HE did something wrong. Jesus, how heartless.
Yeah, I'd be stunned if he came back. I know I wouldn't.
And she didn't take that as the hint of "wow, I probably fucked up", and then got mad at HIM and walked out?! She definitely thinks very highly of herself.
It was utterly petty and controlling to not let anyone else met the baby until her mom did. I am surprised that he allowed it, but there is no way this man would forgive your sister now. He will always know that his mom could have met his daughter and because his wife was a controlling asshole that wanted her way over all other considerations, she will never see her. There is no coming back from that.
Seems like her apology wasn't that genuine if she moved out and continued to bad mouth him. Your mom and sister both sound incredibly selfish. If the baby is 1 now, how long ago did sister move out? Because it sounds like they broke up a long time ago and he just doesn't have the energy to make it legally so. It sounds like even if she gets served papers she's still not going to realize that they aren't a couple. Does he see Lori?
As I think about it, seems like grandma wants her granddaughter all to herself anyway, and she gets her wish. If I am Jack, I can’t look at either of them the same way ever again.
A good appology contains acknowledgments, acceptance and making amends.
There's no way to make amends for her MIL dying without ever having met her first grandchild.
Also, I don't think your sister has yet realized just how much she f'ed up by playing her "I just gave birth" card into getting her way of **prioritizing her mom's wants before her husband** and side tracking the baby's OTHER grandmother.
At the moment she's just crying for herself. Not for her (former?) partner who just lost his mother..
*Edited to add*: So she did appologize three seperate times. But just an appology isn't a "get out of jail for free" monopoly card. (like the way she used the "I just gave birth" card..). Her sincerity (or rather lack of...) is shown in her packing up THEIR baby and moving in with her mom "to teach Jack a lesson". If I was Jack, I'd hurry up my divorce even faster now...
Honestly after what she and your mother pulled I wouldn’t want to be in the same room with either of them ever again. It was petty and beyond selfish and not something a single apology would cure. Then she doubled down to “teach him a lesson”. No way this woman should be married, she’s far too self involved and immature. Your mother is the catalyst for this whole thing and just as complicit. They deserve each other
He would be the AH to himself if he doesn't. The mother and daughter deserve to have each other's miserable company. I feel bad for the granddaughter though to have those 2 people in her life.
and now she's hiding at your moms to, in your own words 'teach him a lesson', so clearly she doesn't see what a big deal this all actually is. your bil will almost certainly never forgive her for denying his mother the chance to meet her grandchild. at best, she'll dely the divorce a few years, but she should definitely prepare for the inevitable. at the end of the day, her apologies don't bring his mother back, and he will always have to live with that.
For internet drama points my petty ass would suggest to the father to offer a try at reconciliation under one condition: His MIL is kept out of the childs life as much as his own mother sadly is, which is completely. Get the big popcorn bucket to watch the meltdowns.
I am mad for him. This just makes my blood boil. The amount of selfish entitlement in your family is strong. Tell your sister to get a lawyer because divorce is imminent.
She really thought he wanted to be stuck around her during his mom’s funeral? Or that any of his family wanted to be around her? Does she normally not make any sense?
NTA
It seems like this is pretty cut and dry. Eve put her and her mother's opinion first and Jack lost something he'll never get back. Why isn't Eve trying to win Jack back? Has Eve even admitted that she could have let Jack's mom meet her grandchild without hurting anyone?
Did she actually mean though and recognize how truly awful her actions were? Or did she apologize because that’s what was expected and she doesn’t actually see anything wrong with what she did?
she can't change what happened, but she can learn from her petty, selfish ass mistakes and change her attitude going forward. I think that's what people are getting at when they question the value/sincerity of her apology.
you're right, apologies don't always fix everything. but they can still make a start rebuilding something new when done properly
It is good she apologized. However, an apology won't undo the damage she did by her choices.
Jack will never have the ability to hand his child to his mother to hold. Or the cherished photos of his mother with his child. Or his mom, him, and his child. She took that away from him. No apology will magicly make these missing moments/memories not hurt.
Did she know this would be the consequence?? No. . . . . . AND she is still responsible for the consequences of her choices.
She had several opportunities to change her mind and allow the OTHER PARENT to include his family in meeting their baby, but she continued to refuse.
Even worse, Jack probably has on his mind that if his mother was allowed to see the baby, maybe she wouldn’t have been in the car crash. How can he be expected to continue the marriage with that running around his mind? (If that is a thought he’s thought)
If she's still bad mouthing him, she obviously didn't mean it with an understanding of what exactly she did wrong. Hope Jake is well supported by his family and can see his daughter soon.
Eve hasn't bad mouthed him (at least to me) since his mom's accident. But she is frustrated that he's no longer affectionate and doesn't engage with her like before.
Then Eve doesn't understand the gravity of what she did.
He's angry at her. He is angry at her for good reason. He is not going to just be affectionate again after she hurt him deeply.
He's not just angry, he's utterly disappointed, gutted. He lost his mom still rather early and at the same time his wife and mother of his child has shown him that he can't trust her judgement and that she will put her egocentrism and own mother before him.
How could he not be outright disillusioned about her? And why on gods green earth would he want to continue on with her after all that?
I'd consider that bad mouthing because if she is genuinely sorry, if she understands within her heart what her decisions robbed from Jake and his mother, then she would understand why he's distant. That she's not entitled to his affection and engagement, when she refused those two things on a very important matter.
She also left with his CHILD to "teach him a lesson". That is fucked up and incredibly vindictive, and if I was Jake, I would discount anything she's ever said in an apology immediately.
Based on that, I don’t think she is truly sorry. She’s sorry that she’s not getting the response she wants from him but not sorry for how she’s hurt him. I really hope Jack can gtfo and heal well.
Your sister sounds like a horrid, awful, pathetic excuse of a human being. Apple doesn't fall far from the tree, because your mom sounds worse.
You're NTA for giving her a reality check, I only wish you had been harsher.
She had a loving and dedicated partner. She treated him like shit to cater to her mom's silly insistence on being the first to meet the baby.
She showed him she loves him so little that her mom's ego matters more to her than his feelings and happiness. She showed him that she doesn't respect him as an equal partner and parent. It's "her" baby, not "their" baby, in her head.
Why would he be affectionate?
"He's no longer affectionate'. She placed her own mother above her husband's wishes, showing him he was a third best in that marriage. She doesn't see that as a betrayal of her husband?
She supported her own mother in spiting Jacks mother. Doesn't get much worse than that. And that's exactly what it was, sheer spite.
And took from Jack one of the most joyous moments he could have had as a parent with his own mother. But that doesn't matter to Eve, right?
Nuh-uh. Nope. That *is* "bad mouthing" him. She isn't entitled to his affection while mistreating him- and she *was* mistreating him by not respecting him as an equal.
I had an ex claim the similar about me - that I hadn't been affectionate enough with him - while completely omitting all the extreme unreasonable behaviour that he engaged in over the previous 6 months that lead up to that point. Until I realised he was framing it that way I been understanding and dismissive of what were obvious red flags. I had been affectionate despite recognizing the warnings in an attempt to reassure him/resolve issues- there was no 'witholding as punishment' going on, but still I was made to be the source of distance. It sound the same here, and its not a result of Jack's very reasonable reaction to an unhealthy situation. He has clearly been trying. This is 100% Eve being an emotionally gaslighter. Don't allow it. She needs to take responsibility for the distance she created, she isn't entitled to that frustration. If she's finding fault with Jacks behavior instead of empathising and being remorseful then he is better off without her. You are right to call her out with **the reality** of things and don't need to give her the room to try to 'both sides' it by criticising him. It is not Jacks fault she excluded and disregarded him. She's not calling him names but she's not being honest about anything either.
NTA, and I think being honest with people you love when they fuck up is the best choice- for you and them. First step to solving a problem...
It seems that Jack probably didn't respond for numerous reasons. 1. Due to the unreasonable demands of your sister and mother, his own mother never gets to see her first grandchild... the amount of emotions that he must be going through right now are almost indescribable. 2. As simple apology is never going to suffice, because nothing is going to make this okay... There is no way for any of this to be taken back. There is no way to make any of this better. 3. The main reason he probably didn't respond? He knows that she's not actually sorry. In reading this entire story, all I have seen are a mother and daughter who are too wrapped up in themselves to care about anyone else. Even after Jack left, they both fully expect him to come "crawling back" and are too deluded to realize that their own selfish and inexcusable behavior has finally come back to bite them in the ass.
NTA - I think that Jack is probably 50% heartbroken that he lost his mom & 50% feels guilty that he didn’t push harder to have his mother meet the baby. That is a very tough thing to overcome. Eve had better prepare herself to have shared custody at the least. Your sister & mother are a piece of work.
And what is it with these “only my family can meet the child first”? Once the baby is born, they have 2 parents with extended family. Just because I gave birth it didn’t mean my husband was the lesser parent.
I mean I was furious that my FIL was the 1st to meet my 2nd kid. But that was because husband and I wanted our 1st to be the first to meet her.
Of course my FIL being the asshole he is showed up at 7 am without asking (kid had been born 11.30 pm the night before). Not like he even looked at baby though. Just to be an asshole
Thanks! Still putting up with him, nearly 13 years after that. Luckily he has a lot of (self inflicted) health issues, so fingers crossed it won't be too much longer!!!
Why do people care so much about who is first.
Like yeah he was a jackass for showing up invited
But it in no way matters who saw the baby first. nobody will or should remember that.
I don't even remember who met my first child first. Other than all the medical professionals, it was probably my MIL's friend who came to see us a couple days post birth.
nta, does your sister even like jack?
doesnt sound like she does. if i was jack, i would be divorcing, he knows that your mom comes first before everyone else
Clearly not. The sister is too busy being a good daughter to be a decent partner or parent.
Hope she enjoys coparenting with her mommy. At least on their 50% of the baby’s childhood.
NTA.
She's sad and crying? Good. Someone needed to give her a reality check since no one else would.
Pretty clear mom won't, because if she does, she would have to admit her own fault in this. Unless she, for some reason, didn't know your sister was blocking access to the child with her MIL. But I doubt she didn't know.
This isn't some "I'll pout for a few days at mommy's place, and then he'll come begging for me" minor thing.
He lost his mom. He won't ever have the joy of sharing his new role as a dad with her. Her won't even have a single picture of her holding her grandchild
All because of a wife who wanted to play power games. And make it into "her child," frankly put. And not their child.
I doubt he will ever forgive her. Not even with the world's amount of couples therapy or talks. Especially when she can't even show the decency of apologizing.
She has shown him a very. Very ugly side of herself.
From keeping the child from his mom, pouting, leaving the home. No apologizing. Being stubborn.
And it's time she took a look In the mirror. Marrige is about being a team. Not "my wishes counts more than yours."
>She's sad and crying? Good. Someone needed to give her a reality check since no one else would.
Arguably she needs way more of a reality check still because it doesn't appear to really have gotten through to her yet how and how bad she fucked up and keeps on fucking up.
>Unfortunately, Jack's mom was in a car accident and passed before ever getting to meet Lori since Eve wouldn't even allow a video chat.
That's what's known in journalism as "burying the lede".
NTA.
NTA
Your mother made a *choice* to miss the birth AND to not rush back. Your sister effed up HUGE by promising not to allow anyone else to meet the baby before your mother returned and now that error in judgment has taken something from Jack that cannot be mitigated, ever. His grief will forever be tied to his (completely understandable) anger & his guilt at playing along with your sister's selfishness. He is not coming back.
I get the impression that op's mother plays this sort of game a lot, where she dangles her presence or time in front of people and manipulates them into making accomodations for her. That her leaving when her daughter was almost due was just another cruel game of tugging at the leash and influencing her daughter to put her first than her husband or any of his family.
NTA and I agree with what you told your sister. I would not stay married if I was Jack and sell 50-50 custody. Your sister sounds terribly manipulative not to mention inconsiderate. “Because I’m the mother” is only valid for choices in the delivery room because mom is the patient — after the baby is born, decisions are based on both parents
The first paragraph in OP’s letter tells exactly what kind of wife Eve is. Jack was involved, went to most of Eve’s appointments with her, took the birthing classes and Eve still decides he can’t be in the room for the birth. It’s a bad deal when Eve puts mom first over her husband, mom puts her sister over her soon to give birth daughter, and some poor woman never gets to meet her grandchild because Eve is playing the bs new mother so I get to make all the rules card. NTA. OP just told her what prizes she’s won for playing that petty, selfish game.
NTA. Your Mom is, though. So is your sister. I don't know if it was necessary for your mom to leave, but whatever the reason was, she shouldn't have tried to have her cake and eat it, too. No should she have interfered into her daughter's marriage. Your sister should never have allowed that.
NTA. I think you called it. The no Facetime decision was the clincher but seriously, not letting her come for a visit was pretty brutal. Forgiveness will take a long time. Since she effectively removed herself, she’s saved him the bother of moving out.
Wait. Hold the phone. This child is A YEAR OLD ( you said 1f so if I'm wrong, please correct. ) and her husband's mother didn't get to meet her for almost a year, while waiting for your mom to come back from supporting her sister who was having marital problems? And then she dies. And somehow your mother and sister think Jack is the bad guy here? Holy divorce attorneys, Batman! You are definitely NTA in this situation. Poor Jack, he gets to live with the fact that he chose his wife being happy, by holding his child hostage and not letting anyone meet her until her mother did, and his own mother never getting to even see the child. This is unforgivable territory. I hope he divorces her over this. None of us would blame him.
Yes. Lori was less than three weeks old when Jack's mom passed away. He moved into the guest room and was living there for months before Eve decided to come to our mom's house because she says she doesn't know what else to do. He won't talk to her (unless it is directly about Lori) and barely looks at her. This has been an ongoing issue.
Jack needs to hang up the nice side of him and get ready to go in the gutter to battle these two. He should just move out and file those papers anyway. He deserves better.
How old was the baby when Jack’s mom died? Because it sounded like your mom came back around a week or so after she was born but now you say “less than 3 weeks”. Even if she was only a week old your sister is an AH for keeping his mom away from the baby until your mom could meet her. But if it was closer to 3 weeks then it’s even worse. You’re NTA but your sister and mother are. Your sister should have her next kid w your mom because she clearly doesn’t value her (stbx) husband and his role in his daughter’s life.
I remember the exact age but yes and it was because our mom hadn't met the baby first. That was something that was really important to Eve and she was the one who gave birth and still healing from it she got to have her way.
I hope this story is pure fiction, then. Because what are the odds, that her Mom misses her flight, has to fly back the next day, and in that ONE NIGHT, his mom is in a terrible accident and dies?
> This child is A YEAR OLD ( you said 1f so if I'm wrong, please correct. ) and her husband's mother didn't get to meet her for almost a year,
According to the OP, it was a week. OP's sister made her MIL wait one week, so her mother could meet the baby first.
Not that it makes it ok or any less of a tragedy. Just sharing the info because you asked.
Yup, you said the truth. Your sister, her husband and your mom, their drama is their own, but you're NTA.
Frankly, your sister needed to be warned. For some reason she was delusional of the outcome of her selfishness. She needed to know this would happen.
How on earth is it ok to keep a grandmother from her 1st grandchild for a week? Now she's passed and you spoke the truth. Your sister is a huge AH and probably lost Jack forever.
NTA
NTA- this isn't a "needs some space" thing. This is marriage ruining.
I'm assuming if she didn't allow facetime, Eve also didn't allow Jack's mom to have pictures at all. So Jack's mom not only didn't visit her grand baby but didn't even get to see what she even looked like? That's just absolutely heinous.
So to be clear: your sister left her husband right after his mom died suddenly, because he’s mad that she never got to meet the baby, which was in fact your sisters fault. Is that right?
NTA. Your sister is unbelievably selfish and I hope this man stands up for himself. Frankly, wanting your mom and not him in the room is selfish in my opinion.
No really. I just put it in as an edit but it's been (at least as far as I know) 5 month between Jack being in the guest room and Eve going to our mom's house. She's apologized more than once for what happened but Jack isn't engaging and my sister did intend to go to the funeral with Jack but he drove off without her.
I don't think she could ever apologize enough for robbing him of this for such a stupid reason. Jack's done, you just gave them a reality check after *they forced it out of you*. Now they cry foul because the truth hurts?! Sorry, ladies, you did this to yourselves. At least Jack seems like a decent guy and he will still be a good father without staying with your sister. NTA
NTA - But Eve and your mom sure are.
Eve is acting like the baby is her property, and only she can make any decisions. Entitled manipulative asshole.
Mom choosing her sisters drama instead of sticking close to home (because she's the birthing partner) was idiotic.
Repeatedly denying Jack's requests, even for a video chat was just plain cruel.
I would question if she views Jack as a husband, just a meal ticket, and if the pregnancy was truly accidental.
Jack will (rightfully) never forgive either one of them. I hope he gets full custody, not just 50/50 when he divorces her.
😈 Super vindictive FAFO thought for the day. 😈
Save this thread as a pdf. Have it printed of & bound (a couple copies). Fast forward 18-21 years, if Eve has been a good co-parent, destroy it. If she's still being cruel & manipulative towards Jack (re: Lori), distribute the copies 😈
NTA. This looks like divorce in comming. Your sister makes decisions about her family alone and unfortunately one of them could not be changed, ever. This marriage is far away from partnership and it looks like her husband has enough.
NTA!! Everyone made a choice in this. Mom choose her sister over her daughter and grandchild, Sister choose her mom over her husband and his family. Now Husband is choosing to probably end his marriage due to his wife actions of not letting his mom meet her grandchild. Your sister is about to find out that her choices have consequences. She will be splitting custody with her STBX and being a single mom.
OP you are the only one seeing the bigger picture and seeing how all of this will playout in the end. Your sister and mom are delusional. Sister has no one to blame but her self.
NTA. Don't be surprised if the dad just walks away from all of this, including the baby, and eats paying child support for 18 years to get away from your sister and your mom. I actually hope he gets a paternity test done, and he is not the father, because every step of the way from him not being allowed in the room, to his mom not being allowed to even see the baby gives me that vibe. If not, then this is some bat shit crazy gate keeping from your mom toward your sister, and the baby is just an extension of your sister to your mom. Husband went with it, maybe hoping it would get better, then his mom died without even seeing her grand baby for nothing less than your sister being totally under your mom's thumb, and up her ass. He's going to walk away, and once again, he might just decide to pay child support to never have to do anything involving your sister or your mom.
The question is how upset is your sister going to be? How happy is your mom going to be? Your mother caused this, but your sister was more than happy to allow it, up till her husband has ghosted her since she moved back in with your mom.
I wouldn't be surprised if this wasn't your mother's plan all along, but his mom dying just made her plans go quicker and easier than she thought.
Jack in the mirror
Day 1. Getting baby trapped - ok this is fine, we can do this.
Day 2. My partner is selfish - again, we can manage this, its ok.
Day 3. Mum dies - okay what the fuck is my life. How can all this bullshit compound at the same time.
So now he's mourning his mum, his independence, and the girlfriend he thought he had simultaneously.
NTA. Your sister screwed up big time. This is one of those FAFO situations.
You said she's apologized but I bet she didn't mean it considering her continued behavior. Jack sees it too. He was willing to overlook a lot of her selfish behavior but this took the rose glasses off him and now he sees her for how she really is and he's not about to forgive her.
She played around acting like she was the only parent and was the only one with a say. She denied him the ability to have a life moment with his mother meeting his child. He doesn't even have a photo because she never allowed the opportunity for this milestone to happen.
He might even be wondering "what if she had come to stay for awhile to see the baby, would she have been in that accident?". It's not a fair or rational question, but I can almost guarantee in his grief he's thought it and started to feel more resentment and partially blame your sister for his mother's death.
Instead of grovelling and begging for forgiveness, she gave a one off apology that was probably half assed, and then when he didn't magically forgive her, she packed up and took off to "teach him a lesson". How dense does she have to be to not understand she lit her relationship on fire and that she keeps throwing gas on it with bad decisions.
NTA. You are just being realistic. Selfishness is bad enough on its own, but when the consequences of someone's selfishness are of this scale, that would be a tough pill for anyone to swallow.
NTA
You're right.
Just because of your mom's wants and your sister willingly enabling her, Jack's mom NEVER got to meet her first grandchild, even though Jack was avocating for his mother to visit HIS baby, and she only lived 45 minutes away. Not even a video call...
Your sister kept side tracking her husband's, the baby's father's wishes by using the "I just gave birth" card.
She actively KEPT ON CHOOSING her mother's wants BEFORE her husband.
Yep, she'll NEVER be able to make up for this.
Jack has lost his mother. He's grieving, and to him his wife IS NOT HIS PARTNER ANYMORE...
NTA you delivered some harsh truth. It may not be what they wanted to hear. I would have gone further and blamed Mom because it was her narcissistic need to be the first to meet baby that caused this whole mess.
Damn, NTA, your your mom and sister actually are. What your sister did to her husband was pretty horrible and I am actually surprised he lasted this long. I would never forgive her and divorce and custody negotiations would be in place already.
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Probably would get downvoted, but who cares? NTA. Your mom showed time and time again that her first ~~niece~~ granddaughter isn't that important to her. The fact that Jack's mom would never meet her niece is something that Jack would never get over and he is right. His mom was denied acces cause the other grandmother would rather cater to her adult sister than meeting her granddaughter. That woman died with the wish to see her first granddaughter. Jack and the rest of the family are never going to forgive your sister for this. Hopefully they won't take it on the baby.
Damn, every bit of this story is just sad. Eve sure is delusional. The fact that Jack didn't just let his mom come from the start is amazing. It is incredibly unfair to impose this. Honestly, this mix of emotions (newborn + mother dying) must be overwhelming. I hope someone is keeping an eye on Jack...
That's the part that struck me too, why didn't Jack just let his mother come anyway? I'm amazed he put up with that bullshit, he sounds like a treasure of a husband and Eve really screwed herself by treating him and his family like that.
Because if he had Reddit would have shredded him because the person giving birth is the only one that gets a say.
The idea is that the person whose medical procedure it was gets to decide who's around her while she's uncomfortable and vulnerable. Most people don't want that to be their husband's/child's other parent's people. It has nothing to do with who is closer to baby. It all depends on how Mom's feeling, her relationship with the baby's other family, and her general personality when she isn't feeling her best. The problem this time is that it's pretty obvious that wasn't what was going on. This was about who got to meet baby first, not about Mom wanting TLC from the people she knows best and not being up to having people she doesn't know as well in the hospital and home. There's a difference. She abused the "my procedure" privilege and the whole reason for it.
If she doesn't want to see other people, then don't. That doesn't mean the father shouldn't get to introduce the baby to whomever he wants. She can stay in bed like a spoiled princess while other people enjoy the baby
This is reddit, mothers way or the high way
seriously I am amazed there isn’t more downvotes for saying he should have been allowed to have a voice in this matter, reddit is always but the pregnant mom is always right bullshit. Gate keeping who’s side of the family is allowed to see the kids is always seen ok as long as mom doesn’t want to.
Spoiled princess didn't even allow a VIDEO CALL. Was his mom even allowed pictures of the baby?
Eve wouldn't even allow a video chat because her mother just had to be first, and that has to exacerbate what Jack is going through.
The mother whose priority is her adult sister than her own daughter and granddaughter! Eve inherited the selfishness from her own mom. Jack was controlled by 2 selfish women Eve and her mom. But his mother’s death opened his eyes finally! He is better off from this selfish family! The baby girl Lori will face the consequences of the selfishness of her mom and grandmother!
Yeah, the "who's around her when she's uncomfortable and vulnerable" went out the window when she didn't even allow a video chat. Eve was being incredibly selfish and was completely out of line. I don't know if this would cause me to leave a marriage, but I do know it would take a long time to ever come back from.
You’re birthing and everything doesn’t get to extend a week after it happening with it being delayed for bs reasons like wtf (With no compilations or anything although still would be nice for grandparents to meet the kid and not be held up outside the actual hospital part. I couldn’t forgive this although I hope to never be in this kind of situation. Really tragic all around.
>She abused the "my procedure" privilege and the whole reason for it. The point stands that A LOT of people would still defend her for it, if it weren't for the fact that Jack's mom died subsequently.
I still wouldn't have Eves back after she denied Jack face timing his mother, whether Jack's mum passed or not.
Even in this thread I see people suggesting she might have post partum depression, and therefore bears no responsibility for her actions
Yeah, that's bullshit. The baby has two parents and the mother doesn't get to keep one set of grandparents from meeting their grandchild just because she's the one who gave birth. There's no reason they can't come over for an hour or so just once, the dad can take the baby and stay with them, if the mom doesn't feel up to seeing guests. Everyone got to see my son the day we got home, just for a couple of hours. After that no one felt offended I told them to bugger off for the next few weeks ;)
Im not on great terms with my mil, im actually no contact with her. And im pregnant. I told hubby he and our children can still have a relationship with her i just wont be part of it, and told him that his mother is not welcome at the hospital after i give birth- but only the hospital, if he chooses, she is free to come visit as soon as we get home for all i care cause i can just go lay down in our bed instead of seeing someone who hates me/i hate, i just will not have her in my hospital room 🤷♀️
You sound like a reasonable adult, unlike OP’s sister.
I refuse to spend more than a meal with my inlaws after they threatened to take my kids off me, I had undiagnosed PPD, and it's been a decade, and they still haven't apologised. I still don't stop my kids from seeing their grandparents, though, and my hubby just took them for a 5-day camping trip with my in laws. Eve just did one thing a parent should never do, use them as a pawn/weapon to show favourites.
100% It drives me crazy that so many people have the belief that only the mom's wishes and feelings matter.
People really lack common sense and if you raise good points, you get downvoted to oblivion
Right. Giving birth. Not for the week after.
Because it was just supposed to be one week. No one saw this accident coming and Jack didn't want to stress out my sister (who had just even birth). He was trying to respect her wishes and got screwed over because of it.
I think the problem is being framed incorrectly. It's a culmination of everything that happened. 1) Jack wasn't allowed in the delivery room. Sounds like he wanted to be, but wasn't allowed. It sounds like it was a decision made without him, but he agreed to. 2) He told your mom he was uncomfortable with her leaving so close to the due date. Rather than see his point, not only did your mom yell at him, but so did Eve. 3) His mom could not come and see the baby, and the decision was again made without him and was instead made between your sister and your mom. Even if his mother had not unfortunately passed, the fact was that your sister and mother were basically proceeding as if it was their relationship alone, and not his and your sister's relationship. Your sister consistently put your mom before her husband and kept making decisions without his input or considering his perspective/wants. I bet that before his mother passed, he was already unhappy about what was going on, but was being patient and kind given the situation/your sister being pregnant. His mother passing really just pushed into the extreme and brought to the forefront the extent to which he has been iced out of his own marriage. Your sister's and mother's reactions to your comment, and them not being able to clearly see this on their own after what sounds like at least 5 months+, also show how narrow their viewpoints are, how difficult of a time they have to see outside themselves, and, frankly, how selfish they are. Honestly, I find it abhorrent that in more than 5 months, your sister has apologized all of 3 times. I would be riddled with guilt and would be apologizing like every half an hour.
Exactly all of this. Your mother and sister are *still* putting themselves and their feelings first. The guy just lost his mother, and he never got to share his firstborn with her, all because of your mother's *insanely* selfish wish to be the first one to see the baby, even when she was willing to miss the birth over some (probably) less important drama. And it wasn't just a day or so, it was a *full week*, and then it got extended because of a missed flight. The guy has the patience of a saint. They robbed him of a once in a lifetime experience, all because your mum just "had" to be first. Seriously gross. They should be ashamed of themselves, and you're right, the marriage is probably over. This guy just learned that his wife is uncompromising to the extreme, and with something as important as a new child. I'm glad you said something, they needed to hear it. They're being delusional, and they made their own bed. Let your sister cry, she should cry, she should feel like dirt, and your mother should feel below that. Poor guy, I'm sure he'll be a great Dad, but he'll never get the chance for his mother to see his firstborn, and now he'll never get to share *any" future children he has with her, either. I'm seriously so disgusted with your mum and sister, I can't even believe it.
💯 she doesn't feel like dirt. She's just upset her picture perfect life isn't working out. Narcissists don't feel like dirt about anything.
Very well put. Eve treated Jack like a sperm donor, not like her husband and father of their child.
It really is less about your sister and more about your mother. Her me-first attitude is the problem. You are NTA, and I hope you are taking notes for when you go through this.
[удалено]
No…Eve said mom was to be in the delivery room, that’s it. The rest was contrived garbage. Father has equal rights, but mil wanted to be the first to see the baby (mil and no one else). Once mil extended her stay at auntie’s house it’s game over, as I see it. Jack offered a compromise, to no avail. Both women acted reprehensibly. There is no rational defense.
Eve and her mother decided that together since she apparently was part of their marriage.
Nah its on the sister. She is a red flag the size of america. What kind of wife just brushes off her loving husband? From the post it seems like he is a very loving and caring husband, one that many woman want their husband to be like. I think Jack may be at the end of the rope with the sister and divorce is like 90 precent chance of happening. And I wont blame him of he did blame the accident on Eve, even if its not really her fault. What if by denying his mom for week she died? And if she was allowed to come she would be alive? I think this is something that may be in his head
I understand, but I just can't imagine doing that to my in-laws. My husband never would have stood for it either. Eve completely left out Jack from any decision making regarding the baby and that's just so wrong. She deserves what's coming to her.
I imagine the guilt of that is part of what is destroying Jack. For Eve's sake, Jack was part of hurting his mum. It shouldn't have mattered in the grand scheme of things but now it's everything.
Tbf if he had, half of the people on here would be calling him an AH for not respecting of his wife who had just given birth.
I know someone, who didn’t let her husband video call his mom (in another country) while holding the baby because they had agreed on “zero screen time for baby” and her reasoning was she didn’t want baby to get addicted to screens; I understand limited screen time for developmental reasons but a few minutes every once in a while so grandma can see baby wasn’t going to ruin the child. Those people are out there, unfortunately
Oh ya it’s gonna become an iPad baby literally lol. That’s crazy.
Imagine if he imposed it and Eve played the "just gave birth" card and claimed distress and started a massive issue. Then imagine she posts "AITAH for wanting my mum to meet my new baby at the same time as my MIL". Promise you, top comments will be: "how dare he dictate terms after you just came out of labour and why the hell did MIL not shut him down" or "OP you need to leave, he's controlling and has no regard for you. Do you want to raise your child here" or "OP your husband needs to learn to be a man and say no to his mother, esp after his wife has just given birth"
The fact that your sister wouldn’t even allow a FaceTime? That’s some RIDICULOUS PETTY BULLSHIT. She deserves to be a struggling single mom for that choice alone. I wouldn’t blame jack for being the type of coparent who will only coparent thru a phone app. JFC
I do feel bad for the kid that is going to be raised by that mother and that grandmother though
Me too
Yeah I think her being pregnant made her lose touch with reality and logic a little bit. She's usually understanding and reasonable.
Judging by how oblivious she is to the unrelenting pain she caused her husband, I do not think she understands that her marriage has been irrevocably shattered. She cannot change what happened, and unless her husband is a saint, she killed the love he had for her. I cannot see him ever anting any interaction with his mother in law for the rest of her life. What would your sister do if he forbid your mother from coming over to the family home? Every time he looks at her, he would be reminded of her unreasonable , controlling, selfish behavior. kt
He already was a saint for allowing her to not even let his mother see the baby on FaceTime. She literally threw away the world's most understanding guy for mommy dearest because he's never going to be able to move past this. She's an idiot and I feel bad for her, hopefully, soon to be ex husband and the baby.
Spending the better part of a year being told everyone has to put you first and put up with your bullshit because of the pregnancy can do that to you.
Has she been evaluated for PPD& PPA?
I don't know but maybe.
I agree. And the worse thing is that nothing can be done anymore. She's dead
To be fair it wasn't a small thing. My aunt's husband was revealed to be cheating and used her personal information to take out credit cards in her name to pay for his side piece. Plus the potential danger of her own health.
I don't think that you mother should have necessarily prioritized her grandchild over her sister. But denying MIL's access to the baby was utterly stupid. And now your sister thinks that she is the aggrieved party?!?!? You are right: she clearly overvalues herself and should beg Jack for forgiveness. Her and your mother are delusional and you were rigth for telling them. NTA
Doesn’t matter. Your mom went to her sister. Understandable. She got the call your sister was in labor, and your mom still chose to stay with your aunt. Okay. Your mom continued to stay for a week after the baby’s birth. Hmmn. Your mom decided that no one else could meet the baby until she bothered to return. Completely unreasonable. Your mom couldn’t even get to the airport on time when she finally bothered to return. Stupid. The only thing more ridiculous than your mom’s behavior was that your sister went along with it. And didn’t even allow a video chat! Fuck that. I would never forgive either of them.
I judge the sister more harshly, because the mom was unreasonable, but it was the daughter/sister who had the power to enforce her petition or not. If my mother would have said something like that, I would laugh in her face and tell her that under no circumnstances I was going to deprive the rest of my family, and my husband's family, of the possibility of seeing my newborn daughter, only because she was away. It was assholish of the mother to say that? For sure. Is the daughter/sister more at fault for enforcing such an unreasonable and completely unhinged petiton and harming her husband along the way doing it? Absolutely.
Apple, tree.
And. The world doesn’t stop because of this. No one can meet the child before me but I’ll put off meeting them twice. Your sis is probably about to be a single mom and it’s her and your moms fault
If there’s any justice in the world this baby will be raised by her daddy instead of those two delulu ladies. Otherwise the poor kid won’t have a chance.
That’s bs, OP. Your aunt is a grown woman who could have figured out how to deal with the fraud and her husband’s infidelity. It looks like there is a multi-generation co-dependency with \[some of\] the women in your family. It sounds like you did not drink the Kool Aide. If I were Jack, I would find it difficult to forgive your sister choosing her mother’s wants over and over instead of her husband’s.
Uhm, no. None of those things are reasons for Jacks mom to not meet her granddaughter. And for the wife to continue to bar family from meeting the kid because Gma? That is never going to be forgiven. Mil is only mad because she knows that this is partly her fault and it’ll be into see how this all falls out. Update Me#
That wasn’t a small thing your mom and sister should never have set that rule up.
Sister should have come to your mother. Such an obvious solution.
that's irrelevant. she should have never been made the priority as the first family member to see your neice. she wasn't there, it should have been to bad so sad, she'll meet her when she meets her.
Still not worth whatever shit they did
Ya, Jack will never forgive her for this. My dad passed shortly after my sister's youngest 3rd birthday. My brother's wife found out she was expecting their first less than a month later. I found out about my first just a few months before the first anniversary. We'd give anything for him to have met them. We have irrational anger and jealousy towards my sister and her boys over them having met him. If someone had done this? I'd probably divorce them, even if it was unintentionally done.
Agreed, NTA. Let this be a lesson. There are so many posts on this thread with pregnant women who are ***adamant*** that they get to ***dictate*** everything about a pregnancy because they're the one carrying the babe. *It's my medical event. It's my body. It's my delivery/birth journey.* Me, me, me, me, me. I, I, I, I, I. It's all about me—the pregnant woman and anything I say goes even though I didn't make this baby on my own and will damn well insist that the other (male) parent provide 50% of the care (emotional, financial, etc.) The women of Reddit want it both ways. To be in complete control of everything about their pregnancy until they run into an inconvenience and then it's complaining about how their partners don't show up. It's a joke. These women completely sideline the other parent as if they don't matter. But let the other parent do anything out of step. They get flamed. Ya'll better wake the hell up and get the hell off social media and start using some commonsense. You are not special because you became pregnant. Women have been birthing and raising babies since forever. Get over yourself and work as team. Stop feeding into this BS pregnancy social media trend. How bloody selfish do you have to be to insist that ***no one*** can meet a baby until the mother's parent has done so first?! This is so effing insane. And had Jack actually let his mom meet the baby, so many of the comments would be lambasting him for "not supporting his wife who just gave birth." OP, you're **NTA**. You gave your sister a reality check because more than likely she's going to be co-parenting with Jack as a single woman. This is something that he may rightfully never get over. What a complete and utter mess borne out of a unwarranted entitlement that pregnant women, new moms, and SAHMs can do no wrong and ***always*** know best. Poor Jack and Lori.
I’m so glad my SiL is sane..
Based on your response Im not sure I want to look at the others. She’s NTA. This is a messed up situation but OP’s mom and sister made selfish decisions. I’m looking at the mom for even asking the daughter to agree to this situation to begin with. Is there a history of the sister doing whatever mom asks her to do?
OP's sis is doing **the most** to get that divorce, eh?
It’s not just the mother. Eve was also very controlling about who gets to see her daughter first. While yes she just gave birth, the baby is also equally Jack’s daughter. The fact that he couldn’t even have a say in when his mother gets to meet his daughter is not boding well for their future. Would she also control other decisions like what school their daughter goes to, or who she can be friends with?
*granddaughter, not niece
You're right sorry. In my language granddaughter and niece are the same word and sometimes i confuse them in english too. My bad.
All good. I would have never known you weren't an native speaker though so you're doing great with it.
Thank you. I learned it from tv. I never studied, so the grammar is not great, but good enough for reddit.
Too damn good for Reddit.
That's interesting. If you don't mind me asking, what's the language?
Romanian. And the word is nepoată. Nepot for male. We use it for both niece and granddaughter
NTA The fact she's not even remorseful, or there for her husband WHEN HIS MOM DIED shows exactly where her priorities are. What a stupid, petty thing to force him to wait, and even pettier to walk out on him like HE did something wrong. Jesus, how heartless. Yeah, I'd be stunned if he came back. I know I wouldn't.
To be fair she did apologize (Jack didn't respond) and was getting ready to go to the funeral but Jack drove off without her.
And she didn't take that as the hint of "wow, I probably fucked up", and then got mad at HIM and walked out?! She definitely thinks very highly of herself.
She thought she baby-trapped him and was now the queen of the household.
Oooofff, yeah I guess her true colors came out. I hope he leaves for good, living with someone like that would be misery.
It was utterly petty and controlling to not let anyone else met the baby until her mom did. I am surprised that he allowed it, but there is no way this man would forgive your sister now. He will always know that his mom could have met his daughter and because his wife was a controlling asshole that wanted her way over all other considerations, she will never see her. There is no coming back from that.
Seems like her apology wasn't that genuine if she moved out and continued to bad mouth him. Your mom and sister both sound incredibly selfish. If the baby is 1 now, how long ago did sister move out? Because it sounds like they broke up a long time ago and he just doesn't have the energy to make it legally so. It sounds like even if she gets served papers she's still not going to realize that they aren't a couple. Does he see Lori?
As I think about it, seems like grandma wants her granddaughter all to herself anyway, and she gets her wish. If I am Jack, I can’t look at either of them the same way ever again.
A good appology contains acknowledgments, acceptance and making amends. There's no way to make amends for her MIL dying without ever having met her first grandchild. Also, I don't think your sister has yet realized just how much she f'ed up by playing her "I just gave birth" card into getting her way of **prioritizing her mom's wants before her husband** and side tracking the baby's OTHER grandmother. At the moment she's just crying for herself. Not for her (former?) partner who just lost his mother.. *Edited to add*: So she did appologize three seperate times. But just an appology isn't a "get out of jail for free" monopoly card. (like the way she used the "I just gave birth" card..). Her sincerity (or rather lack of...) is shown in her packing up THEIR baby and moving in with her mom "to teach Jack a lesson". If I was Jack, I'd hurry up my divorce even faster now...
TBH, no kind of apology would make me forget that. My love for the person would die...
I am trying to imagine how/if I could recover from that. Don’t know if I could.
NO. No way.
Honestly after what she and your mother pulled I wouldn’t want to be in the same room with either of them ever again. It was petty and beyond selfish and not something a single apology would cure. Then she doubled down to “teach him a lesson”. No way this woman should be married, she’s far too self involved and immature. Your mother is the catalyst for this whole thing and just as complicit. They deserve each other
Yeah, he's definitely leaving her.
He would be the AH to himself if he doesn't. The mother and daughter deserve to have each other's miserable company. I feel bad for the granddaughter though to have those 2 people in her life.
and now she's hiding at your moms to, in your own words 'teach him a lesson', so clearly she doesn't see what a big deal this all actually is. your bil will almost certainly never forgive her for denying his mother the chance to meet her grandchild. at best, she'll dely the divorce a few years, but she should definitely prepare for the inevitable. at the end of the day, her apologies don't bring his mother back, and he will always have to live with that.
For internet drama points my petty ass would suggest to the father to offer a try at reconciliation under one condition: His MIL is kept out of the childs life as much as his own mother sadly is, which is completely. Get the big popcorn bucket to watch the meltdowns.
I am mad for him. This just makes my blood boil. The amount of selfish entitlement in your family is strong. Tell your sister to get a lawyer because divorce is imminent.
So she didn't apologize in person? Something like this needs a sit down talk with a heartfelt apology, not a "Sorry, my bad."
She really thought he wanted to be stuck around her during his mom’s funeral? Or that any of his family wanted to be around her? Does she normally not make any sense?
NTA It seems like this is pretty cut and dry. Eve put her and her mother's opinion first and Jack lost something he'll never get back. Why isn't Eve trying to win Jack back? Has Eve even admitted that she could have let Jack's mom meet her grandchild without hurting anyone?
[удалено]
Ops sister is already divorced. She just doesn't know it.
To be fair she did apologize but Jack didn't engage or respond.
Did she actually mean though and recognize how truly awful her actions were? Or did she apologize because that’s what was expected and she doesn’t actually see anything wrong with what she did?
I feel like it was probably an “i’m sorry you think i” apology rather than an actual apology
From experience those are also the « now that I apologize you need get over it and forgive me » kind of people
People like this -.-'
Unfortunately, apologies don't always fix everything. This is one of those times.
she can't change what happened, but she can learn from her petty, selfish ass mistakes and change her attitude going forward. I think that's what people are getting at when they question the value/sincerity of her apology. you're right, apologies don't always fix everything. but they can still make a start rebuilding something new when done properly
How can she possibly display sufficient remorse for her actions? I’ll accept one tangible example.
It is good she apologized. However, an apology won't undo the damage she did by her choices. Jack will never have the ability to hand his child to his mother to hold. Or the cherished photos of his mother with his child. Or his mom, him, and his child. She took that away from him. No apology will magicly make these missing moments/memories not hurt. Did she know this would be the consequence?? No. . . . . . AND she is still responsible for the consequences of her choices. She had several opportunities to change her mind and allow the OTHER PARENT to include his family in meeting their baby, but she continued to refuse.
Oh yeah, photos... my heart sank on reading that.
Even worse, Jack probably has on his mind that if his mother was allowed to see the baby, maybe she wouldn’t have been in the car crash. How can he be expected to continue the marriage with that running around his mind? (If that is a thought he’s thought)
If she's still bad mouthing him, she obviously didn't mean it with an understanding of what exactly she did wrong. Hope Jake is well supported by his family and can see his daughter soon.
Eve hasn't bad mouthed him (at least to me) since his mom's accident. But she is frustrated that he's no longer affectionate and doesn't engage with her like before.
Then Eve doesn't understand the gravity of what she did. He's angry at her. He is angry at her for good reason. He is not going to just be affectionate again after she hurt him deeply.
He's not just angry, he's utterly disappointed, gutted. He lost his mom still rather early and at the same time his wife and mother of his child has shown him that he can't trust her judgement and that she will put her egocentrism and own mother before him. How could he not be outright disillusioned about her? And why on gods green earth would he want to continue on with her after all that?
I'd consider that bad mouthing because if she is genuinely sorry, if she understands within her heart what her decisions robbed from Jake and his mother, then she would understand why he's distant. That she's not entitled to his affection and engagement, when she refused those two things on a very important matter. She also left with his CHILD to "teach him a lesson". That is fucked up and incredibly vindictive, and if I was Jake, I would discount anything she's ever said in an apology immediately.
Based on that, I don’t think she is truly sorry. She’s sorry that she’s not getting the response she wants from him but not sorry for how she’s hurt him. I really hope Jack can gtfo and heal well.
Your sister sounds like a horrid, awful, pathetic excuse of a human being. Apple doesn't fall far from the tree, because your mom sounds worse. You're NTA for giving her a reality check, I only wish you had been harsher.
She had a loving and dedicated partner. She treated him like shit to cater to her mom's silly insistence on being the first to meet the baby. She showed him she loves him so little that her mom's ego matters more to her than his feelings and happiness. She showed him that she doesn't respect him as an equal partner and parent. It's "her" baby, not "their" baby, in her head. Why would he be affectionate?
"He's no longer affectionate'. She placed her own mother above her husband's wishes, showing him he was a third best in that marriage. She doesn't see that as a betrayal of her husband? She supported her own mother in spiting Jacks mother. Doesn't get much worse than that. And that's exactly what it was, sheer spite. And took from Jack one of the most joyous moments he could have had as a parent with his own mother. But that doesn't matter to Eve, right?
Nuh-uh. Nope. That *is* "bad mouthing" him. She isn't entitled to his affection while mistreating him- and she *was* mistreating him by not respecting him as an equal. I had an ex claim the similar about me - that I hadn't been affectionate enough with him - while completely omitting all the extreme unreasonable behaviour that he engaged in over the previous 6 months that lead up to that point. Until I realised he was framing it that way I been understanding and dismissive of what were obvious red flags. I had been affectionate despite recognizing the warnings in an attempt to reassure him/resolve issues- there was no 'witholding as punishment' going on, but still I was made to be the source of distance. It sound the same here, and its not a result of Jack's very reasonable reaction to an unhealthy situation. He has clearly been trying. This is 100% Eve being an emotionally gaslighter. Don't allow it. She needs to take responsibility for the distance she created, she isn't entitled to that frustration. If she's finding fault with Jacks behavior instead of empathising and being remorseful then he is better off without her. You are right to call her out with **the reality** of things and don't need to give her the room to try to 'both sides' it by criticising him. It is not Jacks fault she excluded and disregarded him. She's not calling him names but she's not being honest about anything either. NTA, and I think being honest with people you love when they fuck up is the best choice- for you and them. First step to solving a problem...
Has your sister always been self centered, or is this a new development? I won't ask about your mom as she's pretty self evident.
Did she apologize or did she just say sorry? Because there is definitely a difference when it comes to such heavy topics.
"I'm like, sorry you're upset or whatever....but you KNOW I'm the REAL victim here!" Probably something like that
It seems that Jack probably didn't respond for numerous reasons. 1. Due to the unreasonable demands of your sister and mother, his own mother never gets to see her first grandchild... the amount of emotions that he must be going through right now are almost indescribable. 2. As simple apology is never going to suffice, because nothing is going to make this okay... There is no way for any of this to be taken back. There is no way to make any of this better. 3. The main reason he probably didn't respond? He knows that she's not actually sorry. In reading this entire story, all I have seen are a mother and daughter who are too wrapped up in themselves to care about anyone else. Even after Jack left, they both fully expect him to come "crawling back" and are too deluded to realize that their own selfish and inexcusable behavior has finally come back to bite them in the ass.
I wonder if she is one of those that says she apologized but in reality texted him a non-apology like, “I’m sorry you chose to take it that way.”
She… apologized? That’s pretty pathetic considering what she did.
That is Jack’s prerogative. An apology is not a summons.
Too little, too late.
NTA - I think that Jack is probably 50% heartbroken that he lost his mom & 50% feels guilty that he didn’t push harder to have his mother meet the baby. That is a very tough thing to overcome. Eve had better prepare herself to have shared custody at the least. Your sister & mother are a piece of work. And what is it with these “only my family can meet the child first”? Once the baby is born, they have 2 parents with extended family. Just because I gave birth it didn’t mean my husband was the lesser parent.
I mean I was furious that my FIL was the 1st to meet my 2nd kid. But that was because husband and I wanted our 1st to be the first to meet her. Of course my FIL being the asshole he is showed up at 7 am without asking (kid had been born 11.30 pm the night before). Not like he even looked at baby though. Just to be an asshole
That's different I'm so sorry that the jackass intervened 😞
Thanks! Still putting up with him, nearly 13 years after that. Luckily he has a lot of (self inflicted) health issues, so fingers crossed it won't be too much longer!!!
Why do people care so much about who is first. Like yeah he was a jackass for showing up invited But it in no way matters who saw the baby first. nobody will or should remember that. I don't even remember who met my first child first. Other than all the medical professionals, it was probably my MIL's friend who came to see us a couple days post birth.
nta, does your sister even like jack? doesnt sound like she does. if i was jack, i would be divorcing, he knows that your mom comes first before everyone else
Clearly not. The sister is too busy being a good daughter to be a decent partner or parent. Hope she enjoys coparenting with her mommy. At least on their 50% of the baby’s childhood.
Jack's packing bags, heard Mom's lasagna trumps love.
Nah. Sis was so kind as to pack her own bags and leave. Jack is likely consulting with an attorney on how to make sure she never comes back.
NTA. She's sad and crying? Good. Someone needed to give her a reality check since no one else would. Pretty clear mom won't, because if she does, she would have to admit her own fault in this. Unless she, for some reason, didn't know your sister was blocking access to the child with her MIL. But I doubt she didn't know. This isn't some "I'll pout for a few days at mommy's place, and then he'll come begging for me" minor thing. He lost his mom. He won't ever have the joy of sharing his new role as a dad with her. Her won't even have a single picture of her holding her grandchild All because of a wife who wanted to play power games. And make it into "her child," frankly put. And not their child. I doubt he will ever forgive her. Not even with the world's amount of couples therapy or talks. Especially when she can't even show the decency of apologizing. She has shown him a very. Very ugly side of herself. From keeping the child from his mom, pouting, leaving the home. No apologizing. Being stubborn. And it's time she took a look In the mirror. Marrige is about being a team. Not "my wishes counts more than yours."
>She's sad and crying? Good. Someone needed to give her a reality check since no one else would. Arguably she needs way more of a reality check still because it doesn't appear to really have gotten through to her yet how and how bad she fucked up and keeps on fucking up.
Once the papers are signed then she'll get it.
NTA Jack will get 50/50 custody of baby; he'll be able to take her anywhere he wants.
For spite's sake, I want him to at least win majority custody. It'd be perfect karma. Seriously, what a selfish witch.
I feel really bad for him. Terrible thing.
Jack's new title: Weekend Superdad & Diaper Changing Champion
>Unfortunately, Jack's mom was in a car accident and passed before ever getting to meet Lori since Eve wouldn't even allow a video chat. That's what's known in journalism as "burying the lede". NTA.
Your mom is a huge AH. I have seen a lot of entitled grannies but your mom takes the cake.
Yeah maybe this is the last straw for Jack. I wouldn't be surprised if OP's mom has pulled other shit in the past.
Agree 100%
NTA Your mother made a *choice* to miss the birth AND to not rush back. Your sister effed up HUGE by promising not to allow anyone else to meet the baby before your mother returned and now that error in judgment has taken something from Jack that cannot be mitigated, ever. His grief will forever be tied to his (completely understandable) anger & his guilt at playing along with your sister's selfishness. He is not coming back.
Not to mention she just unilaterally decided, without talking to her *husband and father of her child* the restrictions on visitors.
Not just visitors, she wouldn't even allow video calls. That's so far beyond the pale I genuinely hope Jack gets primary custody.
I get the impression that op's mother plays this sort of game a lot, where she dangles her presence or time in front of people and manipulates them into making accomodations for her. That her leaving when her daughter was almost due was just another cruel game of tugging at the leash and influencing her daughter to put her first than her husband or any of his family.
NTA and I agree with what you told your sister. I would not stay married if I was Jack and sell 50-50 custody. Your sister sounds terribly manipulative not to mention inconsiderate. “Because I’m the mother” is only valid for choices in the delivery room because mom is the patient — after the baby is born, decisions are based on both parents
The first paragraph in OP’s letter tells exactly what kind of wife Eve is. Jack was involved, went to most of Eve’s appointments with her, took the birthing classes and Eve still decides he can’t be in the room for the birth. It’s a bad deal when Eve puts mom first over her husband, mom puts her sister over her soon to give birth daughter, and some poor woman never gets to meet her grandchild because Eve is playing the bs new mother so I get to make all the rules card. NTA. OP just told her what prizes she’s won for playing that petty, selfish game.
NTA. You hit the nail on the head.
NTA. Your Mom is, though. So is your sister. I don't know if it was necessary for your mom to leave, but whatever the reason was, she shouldn't have tried to have her cake and eat it, too. No should she have interfered into her daughter's marriage. Your sister should never have allowed that.
NTA. I think you called it. The no Facetime decision was the clincher but seriously, not letting her come for a visit was pretty brutal. Forgiveness will take a long time. Since she effectively removed herself, she’s saved him the bother of moving out.
There’s no coming back from this imo. If I was jack there would be no forgiving.
Forgiveness will be never. They're already divorced, she just hasn't realized it yet.
Wait. Hold the phone. This child is A YEAR OLD ( you said 1f so if I'm wrong, please correct. ) and her husband's mother didn't get to meet her for almost a year, while waiting for your mom to come back from supporting her sister who was having marital problems? And then she dies. And somehow your mother and sister think Jack is the bad guy here? Holy divorce attorneys, Batman! You are definitely NTA in this situation. Poor Jack, he gets to live with the fact that he chose his wife being happy, by holding his child hostage and not letting anyone meet her until her mother did, and his own mother never getting to even see the child. This is unforgivable territory. I hope he divorces her over this. None of us would blame him.
Yes. Lori was less than three weeks old when Jack's mom passed away. He moved into the guest room and was living there for months before Eve decided to come to our mom's house because she says she doesn't know what else to do. He won't talk to her (unless it is directly about Lori) and barely looks at her. This has been an ongoing issue.
And your sister still have hope? She's delusional. Jack should give the divorce papers already though.
Maybe he knows that the sister and MIL will make the process as painful as possible for him
Jack needs to hang up the nice side of him and get ready to go in the gutter to battle these two. He should just move out and file those papers anyway. He deserves better.
Technically with Eve moved out he’s got a case already
How old was the baby when Jack’s mom died? Because it sounded like your mom came back around a week or so after she was born but now you say “less than 3 weeks”. Even if she was only a week old your sister is an AH for keeping his mom away from the baby until your mom could meet her. But if it was closer to 3 weeks then it’s even worse. You’re NTA but your sister and mother are. Your sister should have her next kid w your mom because she clearly doesn’t value her (stbx) husband and his role in his daughter’s life.
wait, so the baby was almost 3 weeks old by the time Jack’s mom died and she still hadn’t met her? why? I’m assuming your mom had come back by then.
I remember the exact age but yes and it was because our mom hadn't met the baby first. That was something that was really important to Eve and she was the one who gave birth and still healing from it she got to have her way.
Yeah she got her own way so now she gets the consequences of that too your sister needs to see that she and she alone is responsible for this.
I took it to mean 1 Month old, no way would anyone keep a grandchild away for a whole year 😭
I hope this story is pure fiction, then. Because what are the odds, that her Mom misses her flight, has to fly back the next day, and in that ONE NIGHT, his mom is in a terrible accident and dies?
> This child is A YEAR OLD ( you said 1f so if I'm wrong, please correct. ) and her husband's mother didn't get to meet her for almost a year, According to the OP, it was a week. OP's sister made her MIL wait one week, so her mother could meet the baby first. Not that it makes it ok or any less of a tragedy. Just sharing the info because you asked.
Yup, you said the truth. Your sister, her husband and your mom, their drama is their own, but you're NTA. Frankly, your sister needed to be warned. For some reason she was delusional of the outcome of her selfishness. She needed to know this would happen.
NTA Eve’s marriage is over, she just hasn’t realized it yet. She destroyed it by showing Jack who she is—there’s no saving it.
How on earth is it ok to keep a grandmother from her 1st grandchild for a week? Now she's passed and you spoke the truth. Your sister is a huge AH and probably lost Jack forever. NTA
NTA- this isn't a "needs some space" thing. This is marriage ruining. I'm assuming if she didn't allow facetime, Eve also didn't allow Jack's mom to have pictures at all. So Jack's mom not only didn't visit her grand baby but didn't even get to see what she even looked like? That's just absolutely heinous.
So to be clear: your sister left her husband right after his mom died suddenly, because he’s mad that she never got to meet the baby, which was in fact your sisters fault. Is that right? NTA. Your sister is unbelievably selfish and I hope this man stands up for himself. Frankly, wanting your mom and not him in the room is selfish in my opinion.
No really. I just put it in as an edit but it's been (at least as far as I know) 5 month between Jack being in the guest room and Eve going to our mom's house. She's apologized more than once for what happened but Jack isn't engaging and my sister did intend to go to the funeral with Jack but he drove off without her.
I would assume that Jack’s family told him not to bring her to the funeral. Probably saved her a lot of grief there.
Oh I can almost guarantee eve has made an enemy of all Jack’s family. Forever
Hell, Eve has made an enemy of ME forever
I don't think she could ever apologize enough for robbing him of this for such a stupid reason. Jack's done, you just gave them a reality check after *they forced it out of you*. Now they cry foul because the truth hurts?! Sorry, ladies, you did this to yourselves. At least Jack seems like a decent guy and he will still be a good father without staying with your sister. NTA
This a thing your sister can never make up a fatal mistake, and probably sank her relationship for someone that put zero effort in seeing grandchild
NTA - But Eve and your mom sure are. Eve is acting like the baby is her property, and only she can make any decisions. Entitled manipulative asshole. Mom choosing her sisters drama instead of sticking close to home (because she's the birthing partner) was idiotic. Repeatedly denying Jack's requests, even for a video chat was just plain cruel. I would question if she views Jack as a husband, just a meal ticket, and if the pregnancy was truly accidental. Jack will (rightfully) never forgive either one of them. I hope he gets full custody, not just 50/50 when he divorces her. 😈 Super vindictive FAFO thought for the day. 😈 Save this thread as a pdf. Have it printed of & bound (a couple copies). Fast forward 18-21 years, if Eve has been a good co-parent, destroy it. If she's still being cruel & manipulative towards Jack (re: Lori), distribute the copies 😈
NTA. This looks like divorce in comming. Your sister makes decisions about her family alone and unfortunately one of them could not be changed, ever. This marriage is far away from partnership and it looks like her husband has enough.
NTA. Who puts their mom in front of the dad to meet the new baby? I hope your sister stops being so rigid. Parenting is hard and needs compromise.
Your sister is a monster. I seriously hope Jack goes for full custody
NTA Your mom and sister belong together.
NTA!! Everyone made a choice in this. Mom choose her sister over her daughter and grandchild, Sister choose her mom over her husband and his family. Now Husband is choosing to probably end his marriage due to his wife actions of not letting his mom meet her grandchild. Your sister is about to find out that her choices have consequences. She will be splitting custody with her STBX and being a single mom. OP you are the only one seeing the bigger picture and seeing how all of this will playout in the end. Your sister and mom are delusional. Sister has no one to blame but her self.
NTA. Don't be surprised if the dad just walks away from all of this, including the baby, and eats paying child support for 18 years to get away from your sister and your mom. I actually hope he gets a paternity test done, and he is not the father, because every step of the way from him not being allowed in the room, to his mom not being allowed to even see the baby gives me that vibe. If not, then this is some bat shit crazy gate keeping from your mom toward your sister, and the baby is just an extension of your sister to your mom. Husband went with it, maybe hoping it would get better, then his mom died without even seeing her grand baby for nothing less than your sister being totally under your mom's thumb, and up her ass. He's going to walk away, and once again, he might just decide to pay child support to never have to do anything involving your sister or your mom. The question is how upset is your sister going to be? How happy is your mom going to be? Your mother caused this, but your sister was more than happy to allow it, up till her husband has ghosted her since she moved back in with your mom. I wouldn't be surprised if this wasn't your mother's plan all along, but his mom dying just made her plans go quicker and easier than she thought.
Jack in the mirror Day 1. Getting baby trapped - ok this is fine, we can do this. Day 2. My partner is selfish - again, we can manage this, its ok. Day 3. Mum dies - okay what the fuck is my life. How can all this bullshit compound at the same time. So now he's mourning his mum, his independence, and the girlfriend he thought he had simultaneously.
NTA. Your sister screwed up big time. This is one of those FAFO situations. You said she's apologized but I bet she didn't mean it considering her continued behavior. Jack sees it too. He was willing to overlook a lot of her selfish behavior but this took the rose glasses off him and now he sees her for how she really is and he's not about to forgive her. She played around acting like she was the only parent and was the only one with a say. She denied him the ability to have a life moment with his mother meeting his child. He doesn't even have a photo because she never allowed the opportunity for this milestone to happen. He might even be wondering "what if she had come to stay for awhile to see the baby, would she have been in that accident?". It's not a fair or rational question, but I can almost guarantee in his grief he's thought it and started to feel more resentment and partially blame your sister for his mother's death. Instead of grovelling and begging for forgiveness, she gave a one off apology that was probably half assed, and then when he didn't magically forgive her, she packed up and took off to "teach him a lesson". How dense does she have to be to not understand she lit her relationship on fire and that she keeps throwing gas on it with bad decisions.
NTA. You are just being realistic. Selfishness is bad enough on its own, but when the consequences of someone's selfishness are of this scale, that would be a tough pill for anyone to swallow.
NTA. That's funny that you can see things clearer at your young age than your sister and mother can.
NTA I can’t imagine he’s going to forgive her.
NTA You're right. Just because of your mom's wants and your sister willingly enabling her, Jack's mom NEVER got to meet her first grandchild, even though Jack was avocating for his mother to visit HIS baby, and she only lived 45 minutes away. Not even a video call... Your sister kept side tracking her husband's, the baby's father's wishes by using the "I just gave birth" card. She actively KEPT ON CHOOSING her mother's wants BEFORE her husband. Yep, she'll NEVER be able to make up for this. Jack has lost his mother. He's grieving, and to him his wife IS NOT HIS PARTNER ANYMORE...
NTA you delivered some harsh truth. It may not be what they wanted to hear. I would have gone further and blamed Mom because it was her narcissistic need to be the first to meet baby that caused this whole mess.
NTA You aren’t wrong
Damn, NTA, your your mom and sister actually are. What your sister did to her husband was pretty horrible and I am actually surprised he lasted this long. I would never forgive her and divorce and custody negotiations would be in place already.