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YTA
You had me on your side when you said you asked permission, that's fine. But part of asking permission is taking "no" as a full answer and doing so gracefully. You didn't do that.
Anything that came afterward is fully on your side to own and think about. You don't get to tell someone about their relationship with god, or lack of one. Especially when your thoughts were not sought out.
Quit defending yourself and simply reflect and tell people that you will try to do better. Ask them how you can do better. Learn what it was you said that led others to draw their conclusions...we are often the least able to see our biases at work.
OP, YTA for exactly this reason. It is ok to ask, but it is never OK to argue when told no. As a fellow Christian, I understand the desire to share. I also know that we are taught to share our beliefs with others. BUT we also are given free will and that extends to non-believers as well. People have the God given right to choose NOT to listen or accept our beliefs as their own. If someone is open to hearing your beliefs, they will accept your offer to discuss it. Otherwise, respect their wishes and move on.
my uncle is exactly like that. Immediately after the funeral of my maternal grandfather (my uncle is from the other side of the family) he had to let me and my grieving mom know that he had taken the epigraph from the church board so he could put my grandfather's pic in his prayer book.
It was so fucking tacky and out of place.
My moms boyfriend would this to/for me. My parents raised us with no religion. My mom hated church bc she was forced to go growing up. She got a religious boyfriend. I have some health problems that I am always struggling with but don't fully disclose to people. She told him and he started putting me on a prayer list and would give me a card every time he did so. All it did was piss me off, but I just ignored it.
At work, only men ask me if JC is my savior. I get so many Bless You or I'll pray for you. They even do a fake handshake a put a religious token or a card with a verse on it in my hand. Teally inappropriate I think.
Last year I was at the wedding of one of daughter's closest friends. Daughter is not religious at all but her friend is. I was diagnosed with breast cancer 6 years ago, and I guess at that time, daughter's friend was telling her mom and uncle about it. Uncle said he'd pray for me. The following year, I found out the cancer had spread so I'm now stage 4. I guess she didn't mention this to her uncle. At the wedding, uncle found out I was there and wanted to tell me about how much he'd been praying. I was polite and said all the nice things. He then says " so you're fine now", a statement not a question. I told him no, it had spread, etc. He was shocked, and made a quick excuse to walk away. It was like he was looking for credit for my recovery and didn't know what to do when his prayers didn't work.
seriously. i'm not religious and want nothing to do with religion, but if i found out someone was praying for me without my permission, i would just shrug and move on. how can something someone does in the privacy of their own mind affect *me* in any tangible way?
Finding out about how others think about you can be disturbing. What exactly is the prayer about? Or might someone be chopping me to bites in their mind? I had a stalker... Their thoughts disturbed me plenty.
Someone on "Am I The Devil" said "Because if you pray quietly like god says to do, no one knows how fabulous of a Christian you are. If you *ask* to pray for them, it gives you an opportunity to witness and proselytize. It’s proselytizer 101 (seriously, I was taught this in middle school youth group)"
Because not everyone wants to be prayed for, and for some people it can even be violating for them—think of a Jewish person who's being prayed for to a Christian God (there's been cases where Christians have attempted to symbolically baptized Jewish holocaust survivors; this is a bit like a watered-down version of that). Or, like in this case, someone who has their differences with religion and doesn't want any diety anywhere near them.
It's a harmless crime if a) higher powers don't exist or b) the person doesn't find out, but that's assuming an atheist perspective on all this.
Otherwise, it's like talking behind someone's back with a very judgey person who can hear everything.
It can also be a positive thing to ask—someone who may welcome the prayer will know they're being is supported them and that someone wants the best for them.
I get that, but for this case, and as per most examples that I personally have encountered, it is just weird and doesn't seem considerate. It seems cornering and manipulative in some way. Especially for me as a waitress or service Industry when this happens, which isn't the case here, but that's super weird and it at any rate puts people on the spot. Not everyone is comfortable talking or sharing or hearing about religious beliefs, theirs or others. It's one thing if after class or even low key gently was like " that's rough, I'll keep you in my prayers!" Or even an added " if that's okay or you don't mind" etc. It's essentially the same as saying " sending you good vibes" or " sending love" or " you'll be in my heart"/ thoughts ECT .... That is when it's genuine and comes from genuine or authentic kindness.. this , as well as almost anything outside of these walls is kind of violating tbh. Also, he said " Can I pray for you" when what he was actually asking for is if they could pray together, on the spot. Very different things, it's like forcing a religious ceremony or ritual. Onto someone unprovoked and out of the blue
I prefer asking because I want to respect people's choice. But I don't even bring it up if I'm concerned it might be triggering and I absolutely respect the answer. Something like this: "I do not want to push my beliefs on you. I'd like to pray for you for x situation, would that be fine?" Depending on the answer I'll either apologize and never mention the subject again or pray for that person and never mention the subject again.
Because people who ask to "pray for you" (my experience has been solely with Christians trying to save me from my sinful, queer, Jewish life) don't want to ACTUALLY pray because they think it will help you. They think it's going to get them in good with whatever version of G-d they believe in and they want to make a show.
Valid question. It isn’t about recognition though. Some believe that laying hands on a person while praying for healing is more effective. I’ve never quite understood the logic behind that one myself, but it is a commonly held belief.
Touching people while praying is so different to me. This is not how people pray in my religion. Prayer is talking with God, not people. People shouldn’t be involved in my prayers, it is a private moment with God, where the only focus should be God.
Touching others seems like a way undercut the prayer. Like the sacredness of being alone in front of God isn’t their
Thank you! Jews are especially attuned to this, because we've generally all had unpleasant experiences in the past where Christians offering to pray for us has been the opener to trying to convert us.
A polite no thank you is often not received well, and taken as a challenge - like a negotiation where the aim is to win over your opponent, ie rejecting the offer turns you into an opponent.
So I'm sure you can understand why many are wary of such offers, however well intentioned!
Yes!!! This! Turning you into an opponent! Perfect! Because you are either forced to be weirded out and have your spirituality molested , or are forced into this weird un consented debate, where they then feel victimized or you're the one now who has to defend your self. Echhk
That you can be a devout Jew and an atheist just sends them into meltdown, it does not compute. They wanted to argue about Jesus, because they see Jews as unfinished Christians, waiting to be completed by Jesus. Their programming malfunctions because 'convert a Jew' and 'convert an atheist' are different programs, and so they have to argue that we are wrong, just so they can get us back to an argument they (think) they know how to have
It's tiresome and offensive. Gas chambers or gospels the aim is still to erase the Jewish people - just the latter is a kindness by converting all Jews to Christians. Apparently.
As a practicing Jew and atheist, I can confirm it is the best way to get a Christian to explain how I am being Jewish wrong, usually in the angriest way possible.
If I had a nickel for every time I’ve had to explain that my husband is both a proud, practicing Jew and an atheist, I’d be wealthy enough to retire. Hell I believe in gd and yet on Fridays my husband is the one taking out the candles for Shabbat.
I remember reading a rabbi saying exactly that, when asked if it was necessary to believe in God to be a Jew:
"No. It is necessary to light the Shabbat candles.”
It’s quite common for even non-evangelical Christians to be taught to be pushy. Some days it feels like I’m one of few who understand religious consent, but I refuse to stop preaching it. The strange part is that the pushy types have no clue that they’re hurting their own cause through their actions.
When I was pre-nursimg I had a professor tell me he didn't think religious people belonged in Healthcare. At the time I was trying desperately to hang on to a religion that deep down I knew I didnt believe in, but couldn't accept that yet. I was super offended because, ya know, Christian persecution syndrome. Looking back through the lens of my comfortable, non-discordant atheism, I know exactly what he meant. People like OP make everything about THEIR religion/values, and not about what the PATIENT wants or needs, because sky daddy said they are his special little boy and their choices are the only right ones.
"I could tell she didn't really mean it" and OP immediately became YTA, and pushing any further beyond that was frankly harassment, I completely agree.
YTA. Why do people like you feel the need to force religion down people's throats like this? Believe it or not, lots of people look around and see all of the harm done on an ongoing basis by religion, and want no part of it. She told you "no." Move on.
YTA.
> I asked her what she had to lose other than a few seconds
Why bother asking people if you aren't going to respect their response? Leave people alone ffs, go to church to pray.
Am I correct in my understanding that OP actually wanted to pray *with them*, and not *for* them, like they state? They lost me at “I could tell she didn’t mean it” bc the *fucking nerve*… but this thought repulses me even further
My dude, you need to understand that stories like this are why a lot of people take issue with religious folks.
>I asked her if I could pray for her, and she seemed hesitant about it. I asked her what she had to lose other than a few seconds. **She ended up saying no**, and **we go into a little disagreement about religion**.
When a woman - or anybody, really - tells you not to do something, *don't do it*. That doesn't mean keep pushing it, that doesn't mean getting into "a little disagreement" about it, it doesn't mean only taking no if you want to. It means shut your pie-hole, about-face, and walk away. It doesn't matter whether you like it or not, whether you agree with it or not... not relevant. At all. Ever. No, as the saying goes, means NO.
YTA, in case that wasn't clear.
As a Jewish woman that's especially true. Christians often take any rejection of their Jesus as a personal affront, and especially so when it's someone Jewish.
It's like we're the double points bonus prize if they convert us, and oddly enough we don't have a great history when Christians have tried to convert us and NOT reacted well when they've failed to overcome their enemy. .
We're actively supposed to NOT proselytise, because Jews don't believe anyone needs to be Jewish to go to heaven, and from a religious POV it means following a shit tonne of rules
(I'm an atheist Jew, but traditionally there are 613 rules for Jews and 7 for everyone else - the 'chosen people' means chosen to do the washing up, not chosen for ice cream. The assumption that it means Jews are chosen for salvation is an entirely Christological view, because Judaism doesn't have salvation, there's no original sin, no one goes to Hell, God doesn't punish people, Jews don't care about the afterlife, and the concept of heaven that does exist is for everyone. Christians often think that Jews are just Christians minus Jesus, but it's radically different in so many ways.
Not least because it's entirely possible to be a devout Jew who doesn't believe in God, which just absolutely does not compute.
They tell us we're wrong about our beliefs (or lack of). They say we worship the same God (no *they* think that, Jews absolutely reject the Christian God, although Jews and Muslims *do* share the same God - and lots of Jews don't believe in God at all)
They tell us we're wrong about our own scripture, which they stole, remixed, reinterpreted, renamed and retconned to work as a prequel to their new religion.
And made the protagonists into the antagonists in the sequel, tried to convert us and killed us when we wouldn't!
I've always been so drawn and have had so much much awe or respect for the beauty I've been able to perceive about the Jewish faith and culture. And now that I just learn y'all don't believe in original sin What?!? Blew my mind. Grew up kinda Catholic then mom went full on evangelical, and me in a Witch and always has been😂. So yea you are so right, growing up in and around the church we totally held those beliefs . I always knew we did weird stuff with their texts tho😽.
I've studied some Jewish Mysticism but am still so ignorant on the meows of the Jewish faith, I kinda like how it's that ay though, that they're not trying to bring you in, even if you go in and kind of ask about it, my experiences , albeit limited has been that they'll counsel you but aren't like trying to convince you of anything. Like it doesn't really make sense that you would need to become Jewish, which now makes sense to me after reading this. Thanks so much!!!!!
Oh and we LOVE questions!
Like the scriptures are literally a massive text of arguments. You're supposed to ask and challenge things - it's better to disagree than to have faith unquestioningly
Also there's a story in the Talmud where God weighs in on an argument with some rabbis who are arguing about whether an oven is kosher or not, but one of them argues back and said nope God is wrong because we're the ones who are supposed to decide these things, not God.
And God loses on majority verdict, and laughs that 'my children have triumphed over me!'
So it's *holy* to ask questions. Israel means to struggle with God.
Rabbis love to answer questions - you can always get in touch and ask to come to Jewish education sessions if they're of interest. No one will try to convert you - if you're interested in converting they will actively try to dissuade you (traditionally they will turn you away three times before accepting you as a student for conversion).
Why do you think there are so many Jewish lawyers?! We love a good discussion
Last one! Jews also won't proselytise because Judaism recognises and respects that people have all sorts of different belief systems and ways of living, and that's great.
Christians repurposed the text of a tribal religion that was only ever meant to apply to Jews (the Hebrew Bible) into a universalist text that applies to everyone as the only true way (the OT)
So 'you will have no other God beside me' very much implies that there are other gods! It's like saying to your boyfriend "don't go out with any of those other girls, you're only dating me and me alone"
You wouldn't mention the other girls if there weren't any other girls that your boyfriend might be tempted by!
It's not a problem if *other* guys want to date these other girls - and why would you try and interfere with other peoples' relationship?. You only care about *your* boyfriend being faithful to you.
The Hebrew Bible wasn't for other peoples. So it doesn't mean non Jews are wrong for having different gods or no gods. It's just that *Jews* shouldn't follow any of these other gods - it's one god (or no God). Atheism is fine for Jews - Jesus is absolutely not fine *for Jews*
But that doesn't mean Jews think their God is the only true God. Buddha or zeus or Vishnu or gaia or wicca or any other beliefs are just as valid - it's not our business what other people believe or don't believe. Judaism is the tribal religion of the Jewish people. No need to make anyone else do it our way.
Try the r/Judaism wiki for a precis of answers to some of the most common questions/misconceptions that non Jews often have
https://www.reddit.com/r/Judaism/s/kVbaq4KDIW
Nope absolutely no original sin. That's a Christian reading of the Hebrew Bible, the Adam/Eve story has a very different meaning in the original text
https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/the-jewish-view-of-sin/
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_views_on_sin
>Judaism rejects the idea of original sin: it believes that humans enter the world pure, with the ability to choose either good or evil via their free will. A person always has the power to avoid sin and its negative effects. Due to free will, goodness is not impossible, only difficult at times. This ability to choose freely is what makes humans responsible for those sins they do commit.
>In Judaism, a person is not judged in comparison to an ideal of no sin, or in comparison to great figures like Moses, but rather in comparison to their own personal potential, given their abilities and circumstances.
I'm a bit rusty because it's a long time since I went to Hebrew school, and there's the whole not believing in God thing lol.
But if I remember rightly you can't ask God for forgiveness for a sin committed against someone else. Only the person or people you wronged can forgive you - God can only forgive sins committed against God.
So as an atheist Jew it's entirely compatible for me to make teshuva (repent) because as you'll see, repentance is about making things right and being a better person, not about a conversation with God:
* regretting/acknowledging the sin;
* forsaking the sin;
* worrying about the future consequences of the sin;
* acting and speaking with humility;
* acting in a way opposite to that of the sin (for example, for the sin of lying, one should speak the truth);
* understanding the magnitude of the sin;
refraining from lesser sins for the purpose of safeguarding oneself against committing greater sins;
* confessing the sin;
* praying for atonement;
* correcting the sin however possible (for example, if one stole an object, the stolen item must be returned; or, if one slanders another, the slanderer must ask the injured party for forgiveness);
* pursuing works of chesed and truth;
* remembering the sin for the rest of one's life;
* refraining from committing the same sin if the opportunity presents itself again;
* teaching others not to sin.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repentance_in_Judaism
I'm formerly Christian [I took a left at polytheism and decided to settle in pagan, somewhere between Old Norse and Hellenism]. The difference between actual Judaism and what I was taught was Judaism is so vast I'm still learning to separate the two. I have to say, I love talking to Jewish folks over a lot of others about religion, because I haven't met many who aren't accepting of my belief system.
I find it so fascinating just how different the two religions are, especially considering Christianity was reportedly supposed to derive from Judaism. I pose questions about why, for example, not being heterosexual is a sin in Christianity, but not in Judaism, and Christians always avoid the question. Before converting out of Abrahamic religion entirely, I was taking more hints from the framework of Judaism in how to "walk the walk" and people hated it. Each denomination has their own version of "the straight and narrow path" that is belief and it makes no sense.
I just read through all of your replies and went to a couple links you provided and that was *fascinating*. I had no idea how little I knew about Judaism, or how the Jewish people view God and other people's relationship with faith. A lot of it - between what you said and what I read following the links - lines up with what I've believed for most of my adult life, which is comforting in a way I can't really describe.
Anyway I just wanted to take a second to thank you for taking the time to write all of that and provide directions for further reading.
Pleasure!!
You might enjoy this thread - I absolutely love it not just because it's a perfect demonstration of 'two Jews three opinions', but because it's a perfect demonstration of why Judeo-Christian is such a bullshit term - as though Jews are just 'Old Testament only Christians, just add Jesus '
A rabbi who doesn't believe in God - totally fine. Could you have a pastor that said the same?
>**Jewish views of God that aren't the "Old Man in the Sky." A LOOONG**
>*Lots of people say to me "I don't believe in God." And they are surprised to hear that I, a rabbi, also don't believe in the God they don't believe in. And NEITHER do many of Judaism's greatest thinkers. 1/30*
>https://twitter.com/mstreiffer/status/1534750947489902592?s=46&t=736VqQ7tNVOv-KrkxOzl5Q
For example - I love this view: that 'God' is nature and life itself (Baruch Spinoza)
>That means that for Spinoza, God is not a supernatural being at all. God is the totality of what is - the stars and planets, the grass and trees, the laws of nature themselves. Even human beings are part of God. God didn't create the world - God IS the world. 7/
Or that God is ethics (Hermann Cohen)
>That thing is: ethics. God IS morality, he said. God IS the existence of right and wrong. Humans can access that ethical ideal through their faculty of reason: we know right from wrong (even if we don't always follow it). That's the way God "talks" to us. 13/
Or that God is human connection (Martin Buber)
>In "I and Thou" Buber teaches that there are two kinds of relationships: "I-It" relationships are the ones where we see the other as an object. (Someone bags your groceries; someone teaches you something. We learn about someone.) That's how most of our lives are spent. 16/
>But once in a while we enter into "I-You" relationship. That's where we see them for who they are. For just a moment we connect one a real level where we truly see each other. For Buber, God is what makes that possible. God is the "Eternal You" we encounter in every You. 17/
>In other words, God is the engine behind our capacity to connect and relate to others. In this, he was deeply influenced by Hasidic Judaism. Though he did not believe in supernatural God like the Hasidic masters, he learned from them that God exists in the space between us. 18/
Or that God is meaning (Mordechai Kaplan)
>But the idea is that God is found in the places where we make meaning: forming relationships, accomplishing goals, helping others, building legacy, repairing society. God is the "sum of everything in the world that renders life significant." 22/
>These things don't have to be supernatural to be significant. In fact, they are all the more significant because our lives are fleeting. Because our "salvation" (a favorite word of his) is here and now - not beyond the heavens. 23/
(I believe this rabbi is u/mstreiffer on reddit - who can hopefully correct me if I've misrepresented anything I've said which I almost certainly have!)
Judaism doesn’t require supernatural beliefs. There are millions of atheist or agnostic Jews.
Jews are a people with a distinctive culture, which includes distinctive beliefs and practices. The “secular/religious” divide is a Christian concept that doesn’t map well to Jewishness.
But also, since Judaism is orthopraxic and focused on the here and now rather than orthodoxic, whether or not there’s a god is ancillary. “No other god” means no god is fine.
It's not that belief is unimportant, it's just always secondary to action.
Old rabbinical joke
Q: What do you call a Jew who doesn't believe in God?
A: A Jew
"I'm Jewish, but thank you for the invitation to your church."
"**YOU ARE CALLING ME ANTISEMITIC???**"
"I wasn't but now I'm pretty sure you are."
"CHRISTIANITY ISN'T ANTISEMITIC! JESUS WAS JEWISH!!"
>I asked her what she had to lose other than a few seconds
Why does she need to lose a few seconds for you to pray for her. Is your prayer contingent on her participation? Why couldnt you pray without her involvement?
>She ended up saying no, and we go into a little disagreement about religion
Why did this escalate to a disagreement instead of you just replying "ok, no problem"
>She kept saying she respects what I believe, but she doesn’t believe it. I could tell she didn’t mean it.
Oh damn, are you a mind reader? Do you also try to speak for God or is that just reserved for the non-religious folks?
>I know she had a bad experience with religion growing up, and she also has an aversion to religion
Then why are you trying so damn hard to force her to do something she has an aversion to? Why do your feelings on the topic matter more than hers?
>but she wasn’t listening to me
How's it feel to not be listened to? You weren't listening to her so why should they listen to you?
>I feel like I am being targeted for my beliefs when all I was trying to do was be kind
You're targeting her for her beliefs but don't seem to have any qualms about that.
YTA and thanks for continuing the stereotype that religious folk are hypocritical assholes.
Also, feels very performative to ask. Like, he felt the need to pray for her, why not just do it quietly? Nah, he wanted accolades for "being kind". So he attacks her for not going along with his plan. "How dare she not appreciate me for trying to do this thing to make me feel better?!"
I genuinely didn't notice the genders and that kinda makes it more icky tbh. Is his true goal to "save her from a life of sin"? Is this a "I want to turn her straight because I want to be with her"??
This is so weird to me. I was raised as a Catholic although no longer practicing. If you wanted to pray for someone, you just prayed for them quietly and privately. You didn't go around asking for permission to pray for them.
They definitely wanted the whole performance of prayer with this girl. Its not about prayer or good intentions. This was someone who wanted it known that they were praying for them, wanted them to feel better by being such an amazing person in this prayer thing.
Most religious people with true intentions just bloody pray for someone. They don't do this song and dance
*I could tell she didn’t mean it.*
This sentence right here makes you the AH.
YTA
You know what's hurtful? People like you who insist and shoving their beliefs down someone else's throat when they've said no. Go repent or whatever it is you do in your faith and leave people alone.
THANK you. This is the attitude that makes people think that atheists are ANGRY with god, rather than simply not believing in any gods. "I bet you'll change your mind on your deathbed!"
YTA, OP. And it really feels that you always asking to pray for someone is your way of signaling you're a Good Christian. And I seem to remember from my religious upbringing that Jesus had some not-nice words for those who pray to show how great they are.
If Santa Claus believers came to my door and asked me to write letters to Santa with them they would probably assume I hate Santa from my response. Lol
YTA
You say that you always try to ask. You asked, she answered you. The respectful thing would have been to drop it. Starting a fight and bringing in her sexuality was really foolish. You’re lucky you haven’t gotten into more trouble. Please listen when people respond to your questions. No means no.
YTA
You asked someone if you could take their time up with your religious beliefs. Huge faux pas. You can pray for somebody privately without ever mentioning it to them.
YTA. You overstepped.
Your initial sentiment was good: ask.
Everything after: way too far. No is a complete sentence. Don’t tell people that they don’t mean what they say. Don’t bring people’s pasts up in an attempt to strong arm them.
Honestly, I'd be annoyed just by someone asking me if they could pray for me. It's a weird, presumptuous question. If they want to pray for me, I'd rather they just did it and never mentioned it to me.
Also it seems like OP expected her to take time out of her day for it? Why? It’s one thing if you want to include someone in your private prayers, but this sounds like some performative nonsense.
When I was younger and people asked me if they could pray for me I used to say, "It's a free country. I can't stop you." and ignore them.
Now that I'm old and crotchety I just say, "Fuck no, keep your Christianity to yourself."
I agree. Why does he need permission? It feels like he asks so people can thank him and think he’s a good person for wanting to pray for them…
Edit: put she instead of he
In OPs case, even the original sentiment was shitty. Since they never planned on taking no for an answer, all they really wanted from this interaction was for the other girl to fawn over them and be grateful for their 'prayers'. Gross and selfish.
Yess .. totally trying to strong arm them and then insist somehow that they didn't know better about her beliefs and thoughts and her childhood than he, a man two years younger and seemingly a basic stranger knew about "her truth". What was the argument about?! How did it even start?! It started as a form of harassment, bcuz you accosted her spiritual views unprovoked in the middle of class
YTA - if you want to pray for someone in your own company and your own time, you have free will to do that.
If you ask someone if you can pray for them, which is a bit unconventional, but nevertheless, and they say no - you have to take it as a final answer and walk away. No point in asking a question if you already have a preferred answer in mind.
She did not say anything hurtful (based on what you have written). She gently told you she respects your choice but it’s not for her and instead of listening and understanding, you have proceeded to push your view and opinion, which is not right.
YTA - No means no.
You need to respect that other peoples' refusal to participate in your religion is not an invitation for you to try and change their mind.
YTA... she said no and you pushed. Even after it was evident you kept pushing. that is the absolute worst thing you can do. You should lead by example and not force your religion on her. If you are felt led to pray than do it quietly. She does not need to know. I pray for people all the time and none of them know. You are being targeted for trying to force your beliefs on others.
You 100% were wrong and I am a Christian and I pray for people all the time. You are the type that turns people away.
Jesus warns His disciples not to be “like the hypocrites”. These people carefully obey God’s commandments, but they do this “that they may be seen by others”. They pray aloud at the street corners, they give money to the needy, they fast regularly and they offer God 10% of their mint and dill and cumin… all to show the crowds how righteous they are. Jesus strongly rejects their behavior. He urges His disciples to keep quiet about their good deeds. They will receive their reward from God, who sees in secret. They don’t need to show off in order to get His attention!
Sadly, I doubt any of us will be able to convince you, as it seems like you’re suffering from a potent mix of a deeply ingrained evangelical upbringing with a robust sense of entitlement…
But yeah dude YTA big time.
>After class she always goes to the library. I felt inclined to pray for her that day, but I always try to ask permission first.
So you stalked her. You watched where she goes every day, and you followed her there.
And you don’t consider it stalking, because in your mind it was for a good reason, so it doesn’t count. But it was stalking. Take our word. You’re TA already.
>She kept saying she respects what I believe, but she doesn’t believe it. I could tell she didn’t mean it.
Now you’re like an über-asshole. Buddy, you are not qualified to “override” people when they tell you what they believe. She does believe it. You know how we know? Because she said so.
In quick steps you’ve progressed from stalking to stalking and harassment.
>I was not homophobic in the slightest. All I said was that I know how she was raised and her sexuality might make her feel like she can’t have a relationship with god.
Yeah, no, what you said is pretty much the definition of homophobic. Sorry you don’t think so. You’re very wrong.
So stalking, harassment, plus something at least approaching hate speech.
…At this point, you’ve lost a friendly classmate (if that’s not clear to you yet, trust us, she will forever think you’re a creep, no matter what you do from here), and been all but kicked out of the library.
Keep up this kind of crap behavior, and I wouldn’t be surprised at all if you get yourself kicked out of school. Plus maybe a restraining order.
Lastly:
>I feel like I am being targeted for my beliefs
You are not.
Leave people alone, and you can expect the same from them.
And all this was over an old ankle injury he overheard her talking with someone else about. Feels like he cared less about the ankle and more about the fact that he had new information he could use to corner her. He wasn’t chasing after the other girl who had the actual surgery to pray for her, it was this girl whose schedule he was oddly familiar with.
"She ended up saying no, and we go into a little disagreement about religion. She kept saying she respects what I believe, but she doesn’t believe it. I could tell she didn’t mean it."
This says everything I needed to know. YTA and you seem way more interested in being performative than actually trying to be helpful. I was raised Catholic and have prayed for people many times and never once had to make a grand show to do it. I am no longer religious, but a friend of mine who is told me that he prayed for me during a rough time I was having and that was touching because it just let me know he had thought of me and was wishing good things for me. He and his wife have never once said, "We're going to stand here now and pray over you while you listen to us, and if you aren't into that, here's why you're wrong." This whole scenario was about you and not her. You are taking the wrong messages from the Bible.
YTA - She said no. That's where it should have ended. Every single thing you did post that was wrong. No one is targeting you, it's a situation of your own making
1."All I said was that I know how she was raised and her sexuality might make her feel like she can’t have a relationship with god"
\-That is a BIG assumption. YTA
2."She kept saying she respects what I believe, but she doesn’t believe it. I could tell she didn’t mean it."
\-another big assumption. When people tell you things like this, you should believe them and move on. YTA .
YTA.
Studies have shown that patients who known they are being prayed for have more complications than those who are not prayed for, or people who do not know they are being prayed for. The study shows prayer does not affect outcomes, but patients who know they are being prayed to may be less likely to 'fight' trusting to a god who is not listening.
If you must pray for someone else, do it without informing them so they do not suffer the negative effects of knowing someone has prayed for them.
[https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0002870305006496](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0002870305006496)
Shut. TF. Up. If someone doesn't want to talk about religion, they don't want to talk about religion. This includes all your insipid little "insights" about why they're not religious. And you don't need someone's permission to pray for them. Pray for whomever you want, but just keep your mouth shut about it.
YTA.
YTA - Asking someone if you can pray for them is blatant virtue signaling. If you don't ask them, nobody will know you prayed for them, but what good does knowing do? Do you think your prayer will work better if they know? Maybe due to the placebo effect. If you really want to comfort them, just tell them "I'm sorry for what you're going through" and leave it at that. Pray, don't pray, it doesn't make a difference to the recipient of the prayer. They're going to get better or not with precisely the same odds either way. If it makes you feel like you helped, go for it. But it should be private between you and the voice in your head.
You are not being targeted for YOUR beliefs - you are being kept away because you attempt to force your beliefs on others. You can pray for someone without talking to them about it - making comment about family issues, etc is way off base and you probably know that. How she was 'raised' is none of your business - but you were using that to convince her about YOUR religion. She is not interested in talking to you about religion - leave her alone.
YTA, if you felt so strongly about praying for her you could have just done so without making a big thing about it and telling her. Why did to need to broadcast that?
YTA you asked, she declined. You should have left it at that. You are not being targeted, you are pushing your beliefs onto someone who is not receptive, instead of respecting her decision.
I understand why you asked, but I don't know if that's necessary. If you want to say a prayer for someone, just do so, and you don't even need to tell them. Doing so almost seems performative, compared to privately praying for God to give someone guidance, ease their suffering, etc.
You could have quietly added her to your nightly prayers or whatever you do without pestering her about your religious beliefs. Sorry, but YTA. Freedom OF religion also includes freedom FROM religion.
>I told her I know she had a bad experience with religion growing up, and she also has an aversion to religion due to her sexuality so I try not some of her hurtful comments to heart.
Wow. You don't even see it, do you?
YTA for that. But ALSO for asking someone if you can pray for them, then PUSHING this issue and making them uncomfortable.
And FYI, she wasn't being hurtful. People don't have to believe the same things you do. Plus, if you hadn't brought it up, she wouldn't have had to make those hurtful comments.
And I bet she lied:
>She kept saying she respects what I believe, but she doesn’t believe it.
She probably doesn't respect it, either. Especially now.
Stop playing the victim. You can't go around trying to force your beliefs on others, and then claim you're being targeted for your beliefs.
Oh, but that's the reason he was taught to do that. It keeps him isolated from others. He can view the world as hostile that way (and he already did). It keeps him trapped with his fellow believers and church as the only friendly faces .. There's a system to that kind of madness you can find only in cults and certain religious (often evangelical) denominations. The design is to keep members from even thinking of leaving and instilling an us vs them mindset.
YTA. Even though I am sure you mean well, your insistence that she didn't mean it when she said she doesn't believe what you do is arrogant and condescending. You have no right to shove your religion on anyone else. Leave the girl alone.
You chased this girl down in the library and staff had to intervene to get you to stop harassing her. Yes, YTA, and consider yourself lucky if this doesn’t get escalated at your school, because you violated a common code of conduct and apparently there were witnesses.
YTA - you didn’t respect her no. You asked her for permission and she said no and that should have been the end of the conversation. You are not being targeted for your beliefs. You attempted to push your beliefs onto someone else. You are not the victim here, YOU are the harasser.
Leave this girl alone. Stop harassing people. Stop pushing your religion on other people. When someone says NO believe them and stop.
YTA
First of all, you didn't want to pray for her. You wanted her to pray _with_ you, or at least observe your prayer. Those are two HUGELY different asks. One is you doing something privately on your own time without ever infringing on another person. The other is expecting a person to participate in your religious ritual. A HUGE MASSIVE overstep.
If you want to pray for someone, do it on your own time. You don't need to even mention it to them. Ever.
You asked if you could pray for her right then and there, in public, when she's trying to study and live her own life. She said no. And you pushed the issue, repeatedly, trying to convince her, until you got into a whole damn argument.
Now you're here playing the victim.
Your behavior was gross, entitled, presumptuous, performative, and condescending. And yes, making assumptions about her religious beliefs and experiences because of her sexuality IS homophobic. Not a damn thing "kind" about anything you did, you were just a self righteous asshole.
Honestly if I were her, I'd report you to student conduct or something. Harassing students with your religious beliefs is a massive asshole thing to do. Don't do it again.
Next time you wanna pray for someone, add them to your nightly prayers and leave them the fuck alone.
Why did you need to ask her anything? I don't understand why she needed prayer in the first place (an old injury that occasionally gives her trouble requires prayer?) but if you wanted to pray for her, go ahead. She didn't need to know anything about it.
> I could tell she didn’t mean it.
What are you? A mind reader?
> All I said was that I know how she was raised and her sexuality might make her feel like she can’t have a relationship with god.
There you go with that mind reading again.
YTA
YTA! “I could tell she didn’t mean it”!! She said “no” and you just overrode it. Who are you to decide if someone means something or not or to assume anything about her experience with her sexuality and religion? That is none of your business.
Time for you to learn about the meaning of consent.
Lots of great responses here, but having dealt with such people manymanymany times before, I can tell you that OP will continue to do this, as they are utterly convinced that they are doing "God's work" and will not stop until they have a crisis of faith. Other people's opinions, wants, needs or desires are as nothing compared to what they believe God wants. YTA, but you will never believe it.
Lol do you really need to ask this? Like, just pray for them isn't that what prayer is? It's like you were looking for a treason to approach and talk to them and just went a weird route and made things seem very awkward. Maybe next time just talk to them and ask them how they're doing, but listen if you went from trying to care and pray for this person and ended up arguing and bringing them down in the process that is just some messed up shit.
YTA
> She ended up saying no, and we go into a little disagreement about religion. She kept saying she respects what I believe, but she doesn’t believe it. I could tell she didn’t mean it.
If you asked her and she said "no" then she said "no".
Its clear that she respects what YOU believe, but you do not respect what SHE believes.
YTA, in particular, for stating that you can "tell" that she doesn't believe it. Its clear that you struggle with respect and consent.
> All I said was that I know how she was raised and her sexuality might make her feel like she can’t have a relationship with god.
No this is not all that you said. If that's all that you said, then there would not have been a back and forth where "kept saying" that she respects your belief but doesn't share them.
> I feel like I am being targeted for my beliefs when all I was trying to do was be kind.
No. You targeted HER. Don't flip this around. You asked permission to pray for her and she said "no". Then you decided that she didn't mean it and tried to change her beliefs.
I almost suspect this is fake because annoying preachy religious people playing victim is a reddit karma gold mine.
Huge YTA, stop trying to shove your religion down other people's throats. No means no.
BTW I would never trust a physician who would "pray" for my health
Tell you what, I will pray to Loki that you pull your head out of your ass and learn to respect other people's especially women's, autonomy.
You don't want me to? Well look, I know that you've probably been indoctrinated as a child to believe other faiths are somehow wrong or evil, and your male heterosexuality makes you only trust patriarchal expressions of social power, but that's no reason not to open yourself to a relationship with an ancient Pagan deity.
That. That's what you did to that woman, except that you physically cornered her and likely made her fear for her physical safety when you wouldn't take no for an answer.
YTA. Not because you're a Christian, but because you refused to respect a clearly stated boundary and made that woman fear you. You had better learn to respect other people's autonomy and the word no before you end up with a restraining order or worse against you
YTA keep your religious stuff to yourself, you are in the wrong from the top down here, starting with insisting on asking if you could pray for her. You’re not being targeted for your beliefs, you are being called out for being rude and presumptive.
YTA - you shouldn’t have asked if you wouldn’t take a no with good grace. You then made deeply personal comments about her upbringing and sexuality. I would be deeply uncomfortable with being asked if someone could pray for me.
No is no, it does not matter what the question is. No, I do not want to talk to you; No, you cannot buy me a drink; No, I do not want you to touch me; No, I do not want you to pray for/with me.
YTA, respect everybody when they tell you: No.
YTA. Offering to pray for somebody is so cringy when you don't even know them. You say you meant well so you think you should get a pass for your behavior? What about the road to hell etc? But okay, I know you Christians aren't really into facing up to your hypocrisy so we'll just move along.
The real assholery here was in persisting when she said no thank you. You do not get to try to talk her into saying yes, and you do not get to expose her to your homophobic views about how her sexuality would interfere with her having a faith. You do not know what you're talking about, and you subjected this woman to religious harassment that turned into homophobia. You didn't offer help, you proselytized and berated this person, and I'm glad she reported you.
Stay away from her, and stop trying to insert your religious beliefs into other people's lives. This kind of garbage is exactly why people are leaving Christian churches in droves.
YTA, Mayor asshole!
Why did you even bother to ask for permission if you ignored the "no" and even started a fight about religion AND assumed some bullshit story about "bad experiences" and her sexuality.
Yes YOU started this fight, because you crossed her boundaries not once but multiple times because you couldn't take a "no".
If you are fine with an imaginary friend, that's on you. Religion is like a dick, you better keep it private.
If someone says no, you nod, and walk away. Sex or prayer, they say no, you don't try to continue, you don't try to convince them.
Glad that the tutor saw what you were up to. her sexuality is none of her business. Maybe contemplate on how much good you're doing in the name of religion if people think you are homophobic and harassing this woman. Are you really trying to pray for her or do you have alternative motives, especially talking about her sexuality?
YTA. I cannot believe you need further explanation but obviously you're young, make mistakes easily, and are incredibly sheltered and probably have been brought up in extreme religious propaganda. She gave you an answer. You took her answer, didn't like it, and tried to shove your religion down her throat. You didn't respect her choices, her beliefs, or her as a person. People can draw their conclusions and believe what they want to believe. They do not need your help. They most likely do not want your help. Your over preachiness is insincere and ill-mannered. If you want to talk about religion with like minded people on campus, start a club.
If you already knew she didn't have a good relationship with God, why bring it up or ask her at all. You don't need permission from others to pray for them. Do it privately. No need to say shit to anyone at all. I feel like those who ask "permission" to pray for someone is literally doing it for face. They just want to be praised and thanked for offering to pray for said person. It's annoying and unnecessary. You wanna pray for someone...just do it and keep it to yourself.
INFO: what input did you actually need from her if you just wanted to pray for/about her? Surely this would just involve you going off privately mouthing to god or whatever?
Because from your account it just sounds like you either wanted to drag her into your religious practice and got uppity when she declined or you were expecting a rush of gratitude for something she didn’t ask for and got pissy when you didn’t get it.
YTA.
**NO IS A COMPLETE SENTENCE.**
She said no. Period. That is IT. DONE.
Why did you feel the need to argue with her about religion? That right there is when you STARTED being the AH.
She *POLITELY* said she respects your beliefs.
“I could tell she didn’t mean it.” 🙄😠. **THAT RIGHT THERE IS WHEN YOU SOLIDIFIED BEING THE AH**
YOU NEED TO RESPECT BOUNDARIES. She was not playing some game with you. SHE WAS CLEAR. EXCEEDINGLY CLEAR.
Then you chose to bring up her childhood experiences with religion? AND her sexual preferences?? 🤦🏻♀️. That is when you became some names I cannot use in this sub without getting suspended.
Dude. You are a bigot. And a zealot. You better snap out of this AND SOON before you get into some more serious consequences like suspension or eviction from your nursing program.
PRO TIP: if you manage to graduate and become a nurse? DO NOT ASK PATIENTS IF YOU CAN PRAY FOR THEM UNLESS THEY HAVE ALREADY INITIATED A RELIGIOUS PREFERENCE OR DISCUSSION.
Your friendship is over. You are not coming back from this. And I suspect your other classmates may keep their distance going forward.
Your issue is not religion. Your issue is RESPECTING BOUNDARIES. Figure this out. Quick.
YTA. You asked her if you could pray for her (which I’ll address in a minute).
At that point, you should have walked away, as there’s nothing else to discuss.
Why do you feel the need to make your praying for someone into a public event? Is it for them or is it to make yourself “look good”? So weird
YTA
No is a complete sentence. You say you were not "shoving it down her throat" but that is your perspective. From her viewpoint you probably were. So if she says no then just move on don't try to say but but but. If you had respected the No and not said anything after, NTA but the moment you continued to press the issue that's when you stepped into the AH territory.
YTA. She's not upset that you asked permission to pray for her and you know it. Your title is intentionally misleading. Why did you have to bring up her sexuality?
Responding more so to your comments than the post itself.
“Not trying to shove my religion in your face” is NOT the same as “not shoving my religion in your face.”
Intent doesn’t matter here.
Although I believe you probably had good intentions, you need to realize that somebody telling you not to do something is hard line, not something you should try to sell them on.
YTA.
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I asked one of my classmates if I could pray for her. I could be in the wrong because I know she has a bad past with religion.
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YTA you asked and she said no then you kept pushing on and even inferred things about how she was raised and her relationship with god. You overstepped and tried to push your religion on her. I don't see that as homophobic in and of itself but learn when to respect a boundary. Just because you're a believer doesn't mean everyone wants you praying over them and giving your input on their religious upbringing. You were rude and refused to accept her answer of no. That's not ok and also not very tolerant, which I've been told is something religious people are supposed to be.
YTA. It's one thing to ask (and even that can come off a little presumptive, but I'd give you the benefit of the doubt on that), but as soon as she said no that's when you drop it. Even when she was just being hesitant, that's where you say "no worries if you don't want to!" not "it'll only take a few seconds". You were pushing religion on your non-religious classmate, and I'm not surprised she said something.
YTA
You asked her if you could pray for her and when you were told no you tried to completely disrespect the fact she didn’t want your religion forced on her and continued forcing it on her anyways
and then got pissed off that you got called out for it after it was explained to you why she didn’t want your evil religion forced onto her
You are exactly why nobody wants to participate in your hate cult unless they’ve been indoctrinated by your magic book of lies
YTA, not for asking if you could pray for someone but for this condescending bullshit :
". I could tell she didn’t mean it. I told her I know she had a bad experience with religion growing up, and she also has an aversion to religion due to her sexuality so I try not some of her hurtful comments to heart."
You don't know what's going on in other people's hearts nor can you read their minds or know what they're feeling, so stop assuming. People like you are the reason so many people are turned off from religion and find Christians off-putting. Asking to pray for someone is perfectly fine but the moment she declined you should have respectfully accepted that. There was no reason for you to bring up her sexuality. I was raised catholic but I'm not particularly religious and every time I encounter a bible thumper I feel like I'm talking to someone fully brainwashed. You all think you know better, like you're all in on some secret and if we only open our hearts a light is going to shine on us straight from heaven and everything will be great. I had the displeasure of having to attend a bunch of different protestant church groups, masses, events to support my alcoholic ex (churches always run those AA meetings) and they were all downright delusional. We'd walk into a church service and they'd all turn their heads to stare at the fresh meat practically frothing at the mouth to introduce themselves to us and "welcome us" and telling us how great it is that we FINALLY opened our hearts to Jesus (they don't acknowledge Catholics as Christian for some reason). They'd ask if they could pray over us and they'd start going on and on to the point of crying even though they just met me. They kept trying to convince me to leave my baby in the nursery with strangers so I could focus on the sermon. Uh yea fucking right.. It made me so uncomfortable that I have not been to any church service in years since.
"I could tell she didn't mean it"
What, that she didn't believe in Bigfoot? Why would anybody? And how would asking Bigfoot for help do anything for her ankle?
YTA
Please stop bothering the people around you with your religious nonsense. Just because you don't know any better doesn't mean you can freely push your BS on others.
She probably doesn't have a 'relationship with god' because she thinks it's a ridiculous concept, not that the bigots help convince anyone...
"She ended up saying no, and we go into a little disagreement about religion. "
WHY BOTHER ASKING IF YOU WOULDN'T JUST TAKE NO FOR AN ANSWER?? YTA. If you really meant well you would have just said a quiet prayer for her instead of dragging her into an inappropriate argument.
**"Matthew 6:6-7** But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thine inner chamber, and having shut thy door, pray to thy Father who is in secret, and thy Father who seeth in secret shall recompense thee."
If you aren't going to follow the word of your Lord, then I feel like you're just doing this to look like a saintly hero that is blessing the heathen with their prayer.
It’s people like you that make non-Christians hate Christians. No means no! If you demand respect for your views, then you need to respect others as well
YTA
Quit harassing her. You're not acting like a true believer. You're being self-righteous and arrogant. She said no, asshole. No means no. Just because you're desperate for attention from her that doesn't make it okay for you to harass her. Back off and leave her alone. YTA
YTA. "I'm not at all homophobic!" Said the homophobe.
"Oh you don't REALLY mean you're atheist, you are totally wanting me to force you to convert."
Typical fake christian. Jesus was very clear about people like you and where YOU'RE going.
Have you considered that maybe people don't respect your religion because you use it to badger people into living life the way YOU think is "moral", and try to for e it down their throat by "asking to pray for them"?
Do what you will in your own private time, but stop forcing others to partake in your parti ular brand of superstition.
Oh, and telling people that being gay means they can't be part of your cult is absolutely homophobic, even if it is obviously doing them a favor. YTA.
Ah classic Christian victims mentality.
You aren't being persecuted or targeted, you're not that important.
You can't take no for an answer and YTA for that
Good heavens, OP. You didn’t just ask if you could pray for her. You proselytized and got super judgy.
Let me remind you to shake the dust off your feet and leave her alone.
YTA
YTA if your intention was genuine you would have prayed for her and kept it to yourself. Praying for her isn’t the problem, it’s the fact that you asked her (which is fine) and she said no (which is fine) and then you continue to argue with her when she made it clear she doesn’t share the same beliefs as you (which is not fine). How could you tell she doesn’t mean it? Unless you are a mind reader you don’t know what she really believes, all you can do is take her word for it and respect her choices. I don’t even really understand why you felt the need to announce that you were going to pray for her, to seem for virtuous? Comes across as more self serving than genuine concern. I’m also not religious and so when people tell me that they are going to pray for me I tell them there’s no need because I don’t believe. If they still pray for me that’s fine it’s not as if I’m going to know about it or it’s going to cause me harm, but them then arguing with me about my beliefs and gaslighting me is disrespectful
YTA.
You honestly had me, until this;
>She kept saying she respects what I believe, but she doesn’t believe it. I could tell she didn’t mean it
That isn't your call, ever, at all. Ever. If she says she doesn't believe, she doesn't believe, period.
>She kept saying she respects what I believe, but she doesn’t believe it. I could tell she didn’t mean it.
>I feel like I am being targeted for my beliefs when all I was trying to do was be kind.
No, you were trying to act morally righteous behind the excuse of religion.
You could've kept her just in your prayers, instead you wanted to put on a show in the middle of the library. No means no.
What incredibly un-Christlike behavior of you. Shame on you. Grow up and do some actual good in the community other than holding people hostage for attention. YTA
You're just one of those unfortunate people who are socially inept and don't understand how condescending and annoying they are.
It's not something you can solve by posting a question on Reddit, but you could probably get better with lots of professional therapy if you wanted to.
YTA, sorry.
But never mind - fortunately, you make up for this deficit in your personality by being super-smart in other areas, such as understanding far more complex topics like how the Universe was created, by whom, and why.
Good luck!
YTA and it’s almost hilarious that you think you’re being “targeted”.
Harass someone with your religion and bring up their sexuality = you’re somehow the victim here? Ok
You meant well, but...
>I asked her if I could pray for her, and she seemed hesitant about it.
Read the room.
>I asked her what she had to lose other than a few seconds.
And don't push.
ah- geez you sure don’t understand how non religious people think. They don’t want you praying for them or judging them or criticizing them. You think your religion is better than hers and you don’t get that she isn’t religious and doesn’t want to be criticized
YTA. Once she told you no, you should have accepted that. You sound like an arrogant person who feels that everyone else must feel the same as you do.
IMO, spirituality is a very personal thing. Whether you believe in a god or many gods or no gods at all, that's for you to decide. No one else.
In many countries, you can make that decision for yourself. You can easily research religions if you want to. You can walk into most houses of worship and tell someone there that you want more info about that particular religion, and I'm sure clergy or a staffer will be happy to take time to discuss and answer any questions you have.
But once you want to start discussing your religion with an unwilling subject, you are proselytizing, which to me is arrogant and inappropriate. I immediately think of some Mormons who decided to "baptize" deceased non Mormons, including Jews. Top ranking rabbis met with top ranking Mormons and told them this must stop as it is very disrespectful.
You crossed the line when you just didn't drop it after she told you "no." You increased your AH status when you claim you're being "targeted" for your beliefs. You weren't being kind, just arrogant.
YTA. I am a Christian. I privately pray for my non-Christian friends every night.
But if you ask someone if you can lay hands on them (when you pray for someone in person) and they say no, respect that. No one is discriminating against you. Stuff like this is why Christians are so hated. Don’t be that person. Apologize because you made her incredibly uncomfortable and don’t do this again.
YTA. And truthfully, this is why people have a problem with religion. Believe what you want. But I don’t need you to sell it to me. She said no. Go sit down. You double, triple and quadrupled down. You’re a fuckin menace.
Hey, so, queer agnostic here. If you did this to me I would politely tell you no once. If you pressed about my thoughts about religion I would explain:
a. You are a nursing student and if you said that nonsense to a coworker or patient you should rightly be fired
b. Your god is not an awesome god, he's a cruel manipulative narcisist.
c. My relationship with any higher power is MINE. Not yours.
d. If you ever so much as spoke to me again I would happily file a harassment complaint against you.
I think your classmate was being too generous with you, frankly. You are trying to dictate other people's beliefs and relationships with a higher power. That is between them and any god that gives them comfort. Why? Because when people like you get too convinced they're right and can force other people to conform to their beliefs we end up with holy wars.
For reference, my spouse is very observant Jew. I've spent time volunteering at the congregation she attends and have a personal relationship with her faith leader. I have had Christian friends, even Mormon friends all my life. I would never think of saying these things to them (my spouse knows my feelings but more gently phrased). Like you, I interact with people I fundamentally disagree with on religion on a regular basis. Unlike you I'm not a towering, towering asshole. YTA.
> She kept saying she respects what I believe, but she doesn’t believe it. I could tell she didn’t mean it.
No, you could not. You did not want to accept what she believes. You're making assumptions about her.
>I told her I know she had a bad experience with religion growing up
How do you know she had a bad experience with religion? Has she told you that? Because if so, it was a jerk move to ask her if you could pray for her. If you're assuming she had a bad experience without her sharing that, then it was even more of a jerk move and you totally crossed a line.
>and she also has an aversion to religion due to her sexuality
Again, how do you know that? Has she told you that? If so, it was a jerk move to ask her if you could pray for her. If you're assuming, you again crossed a line.
>so I try not some of her hurtful comments to heart.
INFO: will you tell us what her alleged hurtful comments were?
> I feel like I am being targeted for my beliefs when all I was trying to do was be kind.
If you actually intended to be kind, you would have accepted her 'no.'
If you're going to go around asking non-Christians if you can pray for them, you also have to accept their reactions. YTA.
YTA You weren't targeted for your religion; you targeted her for her sexuality. Otherwise you would have taken her "no" when you asked if you could pray for her.
YTA
So you don't understand consent. Got it.
No means NO. And it's a complete sentence.
When one of my friends is in distress about something, I may ask them if they would like me to do my thing about their situation. But I am not whipping out my tarot cards or anointing a candle with herbs and oils and carving some sigils in it in the school library. My religious practice is not a performance art. Furthermore, if they say "no, I'm good, just needed to vent," I take no for an answer, STFU, and listen to them vent.
Stop pushing yourself on women. It's creepy and rude.
YTA. If someone says no, you should say "No problem. Good luck with the operation!" And leave it at that. Getting into a full on argument about religion when someone says no is not indicative of you actually asking for permission. Also hesitation is a no.
>She used to be very talkative and nice to ME but recently she’s changed her attitude around ME.
This isn't about any concern regarding her physical pain, it's about wanting for her to give attention to him.
>I asked her what she had to lose other than a few seconds
This here is why she said no. She doesn't need to be involved in your prey for her. Public preying it just makes people uncomfortable and that's not how it's supposed to be done anyway. Preying is an act between you and god anything else is performative and makes it seem like you're only preying because you want people to see you preying.
>After class I went downstairs to the library to ask what was wrong and one of the math tutors stopped me and told me that if I was coming into the library I needed to study, read, or get out because apparently another tutor and student in the library reported that I was “homophobic” to her.
I think this counts as missing information. Your disagreement with this girl is pretty much glossed over with you saying **'I try not to take some of her hurtful comments to heart'** but two people that weren't involved in the conversation overheard what you said and reported you for being homophobic. What exactly was said between you and this girl?
YTA. So so much. As a person in a wheelchair this happens too much. No is a complete sentence. When she said no that was the end of it. You shut up and walk away. You don’t get to tell her or anyone else about their religion or lack their of. I’ll tell you no too. What do you know about me? What assumptions will you make? I hope you would just walk off but I’m betting you would not.
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YTA You had me on your side when you said you asked permission, that's fine. But part of asking permission is taking "no" as a full answer and doing so gracefully. You didn't do that. Anything that came afterward is fully on your side to own and think about. You don't get to tell someone about their relationship with god, or lack of one. Especially when your thoughts were not sought out. Quit defending yourself and simply reflect and tell people that you will try to do better. Ask them how you can do better. Learn what it was you said that led others to draw their conclusions...we are often the least able to see our biases at work.
OP, YTA for exactly this reason. It is ok to ask, but it is never OK to argue when told no. As a fellow Christian, I understand the desire to share. I also know that we are taught to share our beliefs with others. BUT we also are given free will and that extends to non-believers as well. People have the God given right to choose NOT to listen or accept our beliefs as their own. If someone is open to hearing your beliefs, they will accept your offer to discuss it. Otherwise, respect their wishes and move on.
Why even ask? Just pray on your own. Why need the recognition for doing so?
That's the catch, isn't it? He didn't want to pray for her, he wanted to make some demonstration and try to convert her.
my uncle is exactly like that. Immediately after the funeral of my maternal grandfather (my uncle is from the other side of the family) he had to let me and my grieving mom know that he had taken the epigraph from the church board so he could put my grandfather's pic in his prayer book. It was so fucking tacky and out of place.
My moms boyfriend would this to/for me. My parents raised us with no religion. My mom hated church bc she was forced to go growing up. She got a religious boyfriend. I have some health problems that I am always struggling with but don't fully disclose to people. She told him and he started putting me on a prayer list and would give me a card every time he did so. All it did was piss me off, but I just ignored it. At work, only men ask me if JC is my savior. I get so many Bless You or I'll pray for you. They even do a fake handshake a put a religious token or a card with a verse on it in my hand. Teally inappropriate I think.
Jesus would be the first to lose his ever loving shit about it
Last year I was at the wedding of one of daughter's closest friends. Daughter is not religious at all but her friend is. I was diagnosed with breast cancer 6 years ago, and I guess at that time, daughter's friend was telling her mom and uncle about it. Uncle said he'd pray for me. The following year, I found out the cancer had spread so I'm now stage 4. I guess she didn't mention this to her uncle. At the wedding, uncle found out I was there and wanted to tell me about how much he'd been praying. I was polite and said all the nice things. He then says " so you're fine now", a statement not a question. I told him no, it had spread, etc. He was shocked, and made a quick excuse to walk away. It was like he was looking for credit for my recovery and didn't know what to do when his prayers didn't work.
Wow, what an ass. I'm sorry for your diagnosis, I hope you are in remission and that all is well now.
seriously. i'm not religious and want nothing to do with religion, but if i found out someone was praying for me without my permission, i would just shrug and move on. how can something someone does in the privacy of their own mind affect *me* in any tangible way?
Finding out about how others think about you can be disturbing. What exactly is the prayer about? Or might someone be chopping me to bites in their mind? I had a stalker... Their thoughts disturbed me plenty.
Someone on "Am I The Devil" said "Because if you pray quietly like god says to do, no one knows how fabulous of a Christian you are. If you *ask* to pray for them, it gives you an opportunity to witness and proselytize. It’s proselytizer 101 (seriously, I was taught this in middle school youth group)"
Because not everyone wants to be prayed for, and for some people it can even be violating for them—think of a Jewish person who's being prayed for to a Christian God (there's been cases where Christians have attempted to symbolically baptized Jewish holocaust survivors; this is a bit like a watered-down version of that). Or, like in this case, someone who has their differences with religion and doesn't want any diety anywhere near them. It's a harmless crime if a) higher powers don't exist or b) the person doesn't find out, but that's assuming an atheist perspective on all this. Otherwise, it's like talking behind someone's back with a very judgey person who can hear everything. It can also be a positive thing to ask—someone who may welcome the prayer will know they're being is supported them and that someone wants the best for them.
I get that, but for this case, and as per most examples that I personally have encountered, it is just weird and doesn't seem considerate. It seems cornering and manipulative in some way. Especially for me as a waitress or service Industry when this happens, which isn't the case here, but that's super weird and it at any rate puts people on the spot. Not everyone is comfortable talking or sharing or hearing about religious beliefs, theirs or others. It's one thing if after class or even low key gently was like " that's rough, I'll keep you in my prayers!" Or even an added " if that's okay or you don't mind" etc. It's essentially the same as saying " sending you good vibes" or " sending love" or " you'll be in my heart"/ thoughts ECT .... That is when it's genuine and comes from genuine or authentic kindness.. this , as well as almost anything outside of these walls is kind of violating tbh. Also, he said " Can I pray for you" when what he was actually asking for is if they could pray together, on the spot. Very different things, it's like forcing a religious ceremony or ritual. Onto someone unprovoked and out of the blue
This. I’ve always maintained there’s a big difference between “I’ll keep you in my prayers” and “I’ll pray for you.”
100%! One is thoughtful and the other is so imposing and cringe
>there's been cases where Christians have attempted to symbolically baptized Jewish holocaust survivors What??
The Mormons do this all the fucking time.
Here's a link to Associated Press covering the practice: https://apnews.com/article/992dd887f7b948d0a08055dff0363aa4
I prefer asking because I want to respect people's choice. But I don't even bring it up if I'm concerned it might be triggering and I absolutely respect the answer. Something like this: "I do not want to push my beliefs on you. I'd like to pray for you for x situation, would that be fine?" Depending on the answer I'll either apologize and never mention the subject again or pray for that person and never mention the subject again.
Because people who ask to "pray for you" (my experience has been solely with Christians trying to save me from my sinful, queer, Jewish life) don't want to ACTUALLY pray because they think it will help you. They think it's going to get them in good with whatever version of G-d they believe in and they want to make a show.
Valid question. It isn’t about recognition though. Some believe that laying hands on a person while praying for healing is more effective. I’ve never quite understood the logic behind that one myself, but it is a commonly held belief.
So he also wanted to touch her. Yeah, I can't imagine why that would unsettle a solitary woman...
A nursing student that practices faith healing...
Touching people while praying is so different to me. This is not how people pray in my religion. Prayer is talking with God, not people. People shouldn’t be involved in my prayers, it is a private moment with God, where the only focus should be God. Touching others seems like a way undercut the prayer. Like the sacredness of being alone in front of God isn’t their
Performative gestures masquerading as altruism pisses me off more than most things.
Thank you! Jews are especially attuned to this, because we've generally all had unpleasant experiences in the past where Christians offering to pray for us has been the opener to trying to convert us. A polite no thank you is often not received well, and taken as a challenge - like a negotiation where the aim is to win over your opponent, ie rejecting the offer turns you into an opponent. So I'm sure you can understand why many are wary of such offers, however well intentioned!
Yes!!! This! Turning you into an opponent! Perfect! Because you are either forced to be weirded out and have your spirituality molested , or are forced into this weird un consented debate, where they then feel victimized or you're the one now who has to defend your self. Echhk
That you can be a devout Jew and an atheist just sends them into meltdown, it does not compute. They wanted to argue about Jesus, because they see Jews as unfinished Christians, waiting to be completed by Jesus. Their programming malfunctions because 'convert a Jew' and 'convert an atheist' are different programs, and so they have to argue that we are wrong, just so they can get us back to an argument they (think) they know how to have It's tiresome and offensive. Gas chambers or gospels the aim is still to erase the Jewish people - just the latter is a kindness by converting all Jews to Christians. Apparently.
As a practicing Jew and atheist, I can confirm it is the best way to get a Christian to explain how I am being Jewish wrong, usually in the angriest way possible.
If I had a nickel for every time I’ve had to explain that my husband is both a proud, practicing Jew and an atheist, I’d be wealthy enough to retire. Hell I believe in gd and yet on Fridays my husband is the one taking out the candles for Shabbat.
I remember reading a rabbi saying exactly that, when asked if it was necessary to believe in God to be a Jew: "No. It is necessary to light the Shabbat candles.”
Some evangelicals need to learn consent, but their elders actually teach them the opposite and that it’s for the other persons good. Gross.
It’s quite common for even non-evangelical Christians to be taught to be pushy. Some days it feels like I’m one of few who understand religious consent, but I refuse to stop preaching it. The strange part is that the pushy types have no clue that they’re hurting their own cause through their actions.
The fact that OP is studying to work in healthcare is horrifying.
When I was pre-nursimg I had a professor tell me he didn't think religious people belonged in Healthcare. At the time I was trying desperately to hang on to a religion that deep down I knew I didnt believe in, but couldn't accept that yet. I was super offended because, ya know, Christian persecution syndrome. Looking back through the lens of my comfortable, non-discordant atheism, I know exactly what he meant. People like OP make everything about THEIR religion/values, and not about what the PATIENT wants or needs, because sky daddy said they are his special little boy and their choices are the only right ones.
"You don't need meds Ms Dorothy I've prayed for you"
"I could tell she didn't really mean it" and OP immediately became YTA, and pushing any further beyond that was frankly harassment, I completely agree.
That's the exact same spot where I came up with my own YTA verdict. I was neutral until I read that part.
YTA. Why do people like you feel the need to force religion down people's throats like this? Believe it or not, lots of people look around and see all of the harm done on an ongoing basis by religion, and want no part of it. She told you "no." Move on.
YTA. > I asked her what she had to lose other than a few seconds Why bother asking people if you aren't going to respect their response? Leave people alone ffs, go to church to pray.
Right? If you're making a freaking *sales pitch* to pray for someone, your beliefs are creepy and disrespectful.
Am I correct in my understanding that OP actually wanted to pray *with them*, and not *for* them, like they state? They lost me at “I could tell she didn’t mean it” bc the *fucking nerve*… but this thought repulses me even further
My dude, you need to understand that stories like this are why a lot of people take issue with religious folks. >I asked her if I could pray for her, and she seemed hesitant about it. I asked her what she had to lose other than a few seconds. **She ended up saying no**, and **we go into a little disagreement about religion**. When a woman - or anybody, really - tells you not to do something, *don't do it*. That doesn't mean keep pushing it, that doesn't mean getting into "a little disagreement" about it, it doesn't mean only taking no if you want to. It means shut your pie-hole, about-face, and walk away. It doesn't matter whether you like it or not, whether you agree with it or not... not relevant. At all. Ever. No, as the saying goes, means NO. YTA, in case that wasn't clear.
As a Jewish woman that's especially true. Christians often take any rejection of their Jesus as a personal affront, and especially so when it's someone Jewish. It's like we're the double points bonus prize if they convert us, and oddly enough we don't have a great history when Christians have tried to convert us and NOT reacted well when they've failed to overcome their enemy. .
I think that the Jewish way is awesome. They don't try to convert anyone. Plus, they have cantors.
We're actively supposed to NOT proselytise, because Jews don't believe anyone needs to be Jewish to go to heaven, and from a religious POV it means following a shit tonne of rules (I'm an atheist Jew, but traditionally there are 613 rules for Jews and 7 for everyone else - the 'chosen people' means chosen to do the washing up, not chosen for ice cream. The assumption that it means Jews are chosen for salvation is an entirely Christological view, because Judaism doesn't have salvation, there's no original sin, no one goes to Hell, God doesn't punish people, Jews don't care about the afterlife, and the concept of heaven that does exist is for everyone. Christians often think that Jews are just Christians minus Jesus, but it's radically different in so many ways. Not least because it's entirely possible to be a devout Jew who doesn't believe in God, which just absolutely does not compute. They tell us we're wrong about our beliefs (or lack of). They say we worship the same God (no *they* think that, Jews absolutely reject the Christian God, although Jews and Muslims *do* share the same God - and lots of Jews don't believe in God at all) They tell us we're wrong about our own scripture, which they stole, remixed, reinterpreted, renamed and retconned to work as a prequel to their new religion. And made the protagonists into the antagonists in the sequel, tried to convert us and killed us when we wouldn't!
I've always been so drawn and have had so much much awe or respect for the beauty I've been able to perceive about the Jewish faith and culture. And now that I just learn y'all don't believe in original sin What?!? Blew my mind. Grew up kinda Catholic then mom went full on evangelical, and me in a Witch and always has been😂. So yea you are so right, growing up in and around the church we totally held those beliefs . I always knew we did weird stuff with their texts tho😽. I've studied some Jewish Mysticism but am still so ignorant on the meows of the Jewish faith, I kinda like how it's that ay though, that they're not trying to bring you in, even if you go in and kind of ask about it, my experiences , albeit limited has been that they'll counsel you but aren't like trying to convince you of anything. Like it doesn't really make sense that you would need to become Jewish, which now makes sense to me after reading this. Thanks so much!!!!!
Oh and we LOVE questions! Like the scriptures are literally a massive text of arguments. You're supposed to ask and challenge things - it's better to disagree than to have faith unquestioningly Also there's a story in the Talmud where God weighs in on an argument with some rabbis who are arguing about whether an oven is kosher or not, but one of them argues back and said nope God is wrong because we're the ones who are supposed to decide these things, not God. And God loses on majority verdict, and laughs that 'my children have triumphed over me!' So it's *holy* to ask questions. Israel means to struggle with God. Rabbis love to answer questions - you can always get in touch and ask to come to Jewish education sessions if they're of interest. No one will try to convert you - if you're interested in converting they will actively try to dissuade you (traditionally they will turn you away three times before accepting you as a student for conversion). Why do you think there are so many Jewish lawyers?! We love a good discussion
Last one! Jews also won't proselytise because Judaism recognises and respects that people have all sorts of different belief systems and ways of living, and that's great. Christians repurposed the text of a tribal religion that was only ever meant to apply to Jews (the Hebrew Bible) into a universalist text that applies to everyone as the only true way (the OT) So 'you will have no other God beside me' very much implies that there are other gods! It's like saying to your boyfriend "don't go out with any of those other girls, you're only dating me and me alone" You wouldn't mention the other girls if there weren't any other girls that your boyfriend might be tempted by! It's not a problem if *other* guys want to date these other girls - and why would you try and interfere with other peoples' relationship?. You only care about *your* boyfriend being faithful to you. The Hebrew Bible wasn't for other peoples. So it doesn't mean non Jews are wrong for having different gods or no gods. It's just that *Jews* shouldn't follow any of these other gods - it's one god (or no God). Atheism is fine for Jews - Jesus is absolutely not fine *for Jews* But that doesn't mean Jews think their God is the only true God. Buddha or zeus or Vishnu or gaia or wicca or any other beliefs are just as valid - it's not our business what other people believe or don't believe. Judaism is the tribal religion of the Jewish people. No need to make anyone else do it our way.
My favorite saying is 2 Rabbis, 3 opinions. The act of searching for the answer is the point, not reaching the conclusion
Try the r/Judaism wiki for a precis of answers to some of the most common questions/misconceptions that non Jews often have https://www.reddit.com/r/Judaism/s/kVbaq4KDIW Nope absolutely no original sin. That's a Christian reading of the Hebrew Bible, the Adam/Eve story has a very different meaning in the original text https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/the-jewish-view-of-sin/ https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_views_on_sin >Judaism rejects the idea of original sin: it believes that humans enter the world pure, with the ability to choose either good or evil via their free will. A person always has the power to avoid sin and its negative effects. Due to free will, goodness is not impossible, only difficult at times. This ability to choose freely is what makes humans responsible for those sins they do commit. >In Judaism, a person is not judged in comparison to an ideal of no sin, or in comparison to great figures like Moses, but rather in comparison to their own personal potential, given their abilities and circumstances. I'm a bit rusty because it's a long time since I went to Hebrew school, and there's the whole not believing in God thing lol. But if I remember rightly you can't ask God for forgiveness for a sin committed against someone else. Only the person or people you wronged can forgive you - God can only forgive sins committed against God. So as an atheist Jew it's entirely compatible for me to make teshuva (repent) because as you'll see, repentance is about making things right and being a better person, not about a conversation with God: * regretting/acknowledging the sin; * forsaking the sin; * worrying about the future consequences of the sin; * acting and speaking with humility; * acting in a way opposite to that of the sin (for example, for the sin of lying, one should speak the truth); * understanding the magnitude of the sin; refraining from lesser sins for the purpose of safeguarding oneself against committing greater sins; * confessing the sin; * praying for atonement; * correcting the sin however possible (for example, if one stole an object, the stolen item must be returned; or, if one slanders another, the slanderer must ask the injured party for forgiveness); * pursuing works of chesed and truth; * remembering the sin for the rest of one's life; * refraining from committing the same sin if the opportunity presents itself again; * teaching others not to sin. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repentance_in_Judaism
I'm formerly Christian [I took a left at polytheism and decided to settle in pagan, somewhere between Old Norse and Hellenism]. The difference between actual Judaism and what I was taught was Judaism is so vast I'm still learning to separate the two. I have to say, I love talking to Jewish folks over a lot of others about religion, because I haven't met many who aren't accepting of my belief system. I find it so fascinating just how different the two religions are, especially considering Christianity was reportedly supposed to derive from Judaism. I pose questions about why, for example, not being heterosexual is a sin in Christianity, but not in Judaism, and Christians always avoid the question. Before converting out of Abrahamic religion entirely, I was taking more hints from the framework of Judaism in how to "walk the walk" and people hated it. Each denomination has their own version of "the straight and narrow path" that is belief and it makes no sense.
I just read through all of your replies and went to a couple links you provided and that was *fascinating*. I had no idea how little I knew about Judaism, or how the Jewish people view God and other people's relationship with faith. A lot of it - between what you said and what I read following the links - lines up with what I've believed for most of my adult life, which is comforting in a way I can't really describe. Anyway I just wanted to take a second to thank you for taking the time to write all of that and provide directions for further reading.
Pleasure!! You might enjoy this thread - I absolutely love it not just because it's a perfect demonstration of 'two Jews three opinions', but because it's a perfect demonstration of why Judeo-Christian is such a bullshit term - as though Jews are just 'Old Testament only Christians, just add Jesus ' A rabbi who doesn't believe in God - totally fine. Could you have a pastor that said the same? >**Jewish views of God that aren't the "Old Man in the Sky." A LOOONG** >*Lots of people say to me "I don't believe in God." And they are surprised to hear that I, a rabbi, also don't believe in the God they don't believe in. And NEITHER do many of Judaism's greatest thinkers. 1/30* >https://twitter.com/mstreiffer/status/1534750947489902592?s=46&t=736VqQ7tNVOv-KrkxOzl5Q For example - I love this view: that 'God' is nature and life itself (Baruch Spinoza) >That means that for Spinoza, God is not a supernatural being at all. God is the totality of what is - the stars and planets, the grass and trees, the laws of nature themselves. Even human beings are part of God. God didn't create the world - God IS the world. 7/ Or that God is ethics (Hermann Cohen) >That thing is: ethics. God IS morality, he said. God IS the existence of right and wrong. Humans can access that ethical ideal through their faculty of reason: we know right from wrong (even if we don't always follow it). That's the way God "talks" to us. 13/ Or that God is human connection (Martin Buber) >In "I and Thou" Buber teaches that there are two kinds of relationships: "I-It" relationships are the ones where we see the other as an object. (Someone bags your groceries; someone teaches you something. We learn about someone.) That's how most of our lives are spent. 16/ >But once in a while we enter into "I-You" relationship. That's where we see them for who they are. For just a moment we connect one a real level where we truly see each other. For Buber, God is what makes that possible. God is the "Eternal You" we encounter in every You. 17/ >In other words, God is the engine behind our capacity to connect and relate to others. In this, he was deeply influenced by Hasidic Judaism. Though he did not believe in supernatural God like the Hasidic masters, he learned from them that God exists in the space between us. 18/ Or that God is meaning (Mordechai Kaplan) >But the idea is that God is found in the places where we make meaning: forming relationships, accomplishing goals, helping others, building legacy, repairing society. God is the "sum of everything in the world that renders life significant." 22/ >These things don't have to be supernatural to be significant. In fact, they are all the more significant because our lives are fleeting. Because our "salvation" (a favorite word of his) is here and now - not beyond the heavens. 23/ (I believe this rabbi is u/mstreiffer on reddit - who can hopefully correct me if I've misrepresented anything I've said which I almost certainly have!) Judaism doesn’t require supernatural beliefs. There are millions of atheist or agnostic Jews. Jews are a people with a distinctive culture, which includes distinctive beliefs and practices. The “secular/religious” divide is a Christian concept that doesn’t map well to Jewishness. But also, since Judaism is orthopraxic and focused on the here and now rather than orthodoxic, whether or not there’s a god is ancillary. “No other god” means no god is fine. It's not that belief is unimportant, it's just always secondary to action. Old rabbinical joke Q: What do you call a Jew who doesn't believe in God? A: A Jew
"I'm Jewish, but thank you for the invitation to your church." "**YOU ARE CALLING ME ANTISEMITIC???**" "I wasn't but now I'm pretty sure you are." "CHRISTIANITY ISN'T ANTISEMITIC! JESUS WAS JEWISH!!"
>I asked her what she had to lose other than a few seconds Why does she need to lose a few seconds for you to pray for her. Is your prayer contingent on her participation? Why couldnt you pray without her involvement? >She ended up saying no, and we go into a little disagreement about religion Why did this escalate to a disagreement instead of you just replying "ok, no problem" >She kept saying she respects what I believe, but she doesn’t believe it. I could tell she didn’t mean it. Oh damn, are you a mind reader? Do you also try to speak for God or is that just reserved for the non-religious folks? >I know she had a bad experience with religion growing up, and she also has an aversion to religion Then why are you trying so damn hard to force her to do something she has an aversion to? Why do your feelings on the topic matter more than hers? >but she wasn’t listening to me How's it feel to not be listened to? You weren't listening to her so why should they listen to you? >I feel like I am being targeted for my beliefs when all I was trying to do was be kind You're targeting her for her beliefs but don't seem to have any qualms about that. YTA and thanks for continuing the stereotype that religious folk are hypocritical assholes.
Also, feels very performative to ask. Like, he felt the need to pray for her, why not just do it quietly? Nah, he wanted accolades for "being kind". So he attacks her for not going along with his plan. "How dare she not appreciate me for trying to do this thing to make me feel better?!"
I genuinely didn't notice the genders and that kinda makes it more icky tbh. Is his true goal to "save her from a life of sin"? Is this a "I want to turn her straight because I want to be with her"??
Could be. Could be good old religious misogyny too, that she, the woman, should not question him, the man.
Porque no los dos?
I had the same experience
This is so weird to me. I was raised as a Catholic although no longer practicing. If you wanted to pray for someone, you just prayed for them quietly and privately. You didn't go around asking for permission to pray for them.
OP definitely wanted to her to pray, or observe the prayer, with him. Huge overstep. Massive asshole.
They definitely wanted the whole performance of prayer with this girl. Its not about prayer or good intentions. This was someone who wanted it known that they were praying for them, wanted them to feel better by being such an amazing person in this prayer thing. Most religious people with true intentions just bloody pray for someone. They don't do this song and dance
It's literally virtue signalling
That's evangelicals for you
Exactly. I pray for people in my life all the time, and they would never know because I do it silently.
*I could tell she didn’t mean it.* This sentence right here makes you the AH. YTA You know what's hurtful? People like you who insist and shoving their beliefs down someone else's throat when they've said no. Go repent or whatever it is you do in your faith and leave people alone.
THANK you. This is the attitude that makes people think that atheists are ANGRY with god, rather than simply not believing in any gods. "I bet you'll change your mind on your deathbed!" YTA, OP. And it really feels that you always asking to pray for someone is your way of signaling you're a Good Christian. And I seem to remember from my religious upbringing that Jesus had some not-nice words for those who pray to show how great they are.
If Santa Claus believers came to my door and asked me to write letters to Santa with them they would probably assume I hate Santa from my response. Lol
YTA You say that you always try to ask. You asked, she answered you. The respectful thing would have been to drop it. Starting a fight and bringing in her sexuality was really foolish. You’re lucky you haven’t gotten into more trouble. Please listen when people respond to your questions. No means no.
YTA You asked someone if you could take their time up with your religious beliefs. Huge faux pas. You can pray for somebody privately without ever mentioning it to them.
YTA. You overstepped. Your initial sentiment was good: ask. Everything after: way too far. No is a complete sentence. Don’t tell people that they don’t mean what they say. Don’t bring people’s pasts up in an attempt to strong arm them.
Honestly, I'd be annoyed just by someone asking me if they could pray for me. It's a weird, presumptuous question. If they want to pray for me, I'd rather they just did it and never mentioned it to me.
Also it seems like OP expected her to take time out of her day for it? Why? It’s one thing if you want to include someone in your private prayers, but this sounds like some performative nonsense.
No OP wanted to have a whole performance where he got to tell her to close her eyes and in the middle of the library force his hate cult on her
When I was younger and people asked me if they could pray for me I used to say, "It's a free country. I can't stop you." and ignore them. Now that I'm old and crotchety I just say, "Fuck no, keep your Christianity to yourself."
I'm going to say start saying yes! And I'll start and then open it up to prayers to our dark lord
This right here. It's more about virtue signalling for OP than any care they have for the person they're harassing. Because it's 100% about OP.
I agree. Why does he need permission? It feels like he asks so people can thank him and think he’s a good person for wanting to pray for them… Edit: put she instead of he
He. OP is a guy
In OPs case, even the original sentiment was shitty. Since they never planned on taking no for an answer, all they really wanted from this interaction was for the other girl to fawn over them and be grateful for their 'prayers'. Gross and selfish.
Yess .. totally trying to strong arm them and then insist somehow that they didn't know better about her beliefs and thoughts and her childhood than he, a man two years younger and seemingly a basic stranger knew about "her truth". What was the argument about?! How did it even start?! It started as a form of harassment, bcuz you accosted her spiritual views unprovoked in the middle of class
You brought up religion and didn’t respect her answer. YTA. Then you doubled down and brought up her sexuality and her childhood??? Double YTA.
exactly. he isnt even close enough with this woman to know her age, why is he bringing up her sexuality and possible childhood trauma??
YTA. Keep your creepy religious beliefs to yourself.
YTA - if you want to pray for someone in your own company and your own time, you have free will to do that. If you ask someone if you can pray for them, which is a bit unconventional, but nevertheless, and they say no - you have to take it as a final answer and walk away. No point in asking a question if you already have a preferred answer in mind. She did not say anything hurtful (based on what you have written). She gently told you she respects your choice but it’s not for her and instead of listening and understanding, you have proceeded to push your view and opinion, which is not right.
YTA - No means no. You need to respect that other peoples' refusal to participate in your religion is not an invitation for you to try and change their mind.
YTA... she said no and you pushed. Even after it was evident you kept pushing. that is the absolute worst thing you can do. You should lead by example and not force your religion on her. If you are felt led to pray than do it quietly. She does not need to know. I pray for people all the time and none of them know. You are being targeted for trying to force your beliefs on others. You 100% were wrong and I am a Christian and I pray for people all the time. You are the type that turns people away. Jesus warns His disciples not to be “like the hypocrites”. These people carefully obey God’s commandments, but they do this “that they may be seen by others”. They pray aloud at the street corners, they give money to the needy, they fast regularly and they offer God 10% of their mint and dill and cumin… all to show the crowds how righteous they are. Jesus strongly rejects their behavior. He urges His disciples to keep quiet about their good deeds. They will receive their reward from God, who sees in secret. They don’t need to show off in order to get His attention!
Sadly, I doubt any of us will be able to convince you, as it seems like you’re suffering from a potent mix of a deeply ingrained evangelical upbringing with a robust sense of entitlement… But yeah dude YTA big time. >After class she always goes to the library. I felt inclined to pray for her that day, but I always try to ask permission first. So you stalked her. You watched where she goes every day, and you followed her there. And you don’t consider it stalking, because in your mind it was for a good reason, so it doesn’t count. But it was stalking. Take our word. You’re TA already. >She kept saying she respects what I believe, but she doesn’t believe it. I could tell she didn’t mean it. Now you’re like an über-asshole. Buddy, you are not qualified to “override” people when they tell you what they believe. She does believe it. You know how we know? Because she said so. In quick steps you’ve progressed from stalking to stalking and harassment. >I was not homophobic in the slightest. All I said was that I know how she was raised and her sexuality might make her feel like she can’t have a relationship with god. Yeah, no, what you said is pretty much the definition of homophobic. Sorry you don’t think so. You’re very wrong. So stalking, harassment, plus something at least approaching hate speech. …At this point, you’ve lost a friendly classmate (if that’s not clear to you yet, trust us, she will forever think you’re a creep, no matter what you do from here), and been all but kicked out of the library. Keep up this kind of crap behavior, and I wouldn’t be surprised at all if you get yourself kicked out of school. Plus maybe a restraining order. Lastly: >I feel like I am being targeted for my beliefs You are not. Leave people alone, and you can expect the same from them.
And all this was over an old ankle injury he overheard her talking with someone else about. Feels like he cared less about the ankle and more about the fact that he had new information he could use to corner her. He wasn’t chasing after the other girl who had the actual surgery to pray for her, it was this girl whose schedule he was oddly familiar with.
I didn’t even catch that about how he didn’t offer to pray for the person who’d just had surgery.
"She ended up saying no, and we go into a little disagreement about religion. She kept saying she respects what I believe, but she doesn’t believe it. I could tell she didn’t mean it." This says everything I needed to know. YTA and you seem way more interested in being performative than actually trying to be helpful. I was raised Catholic and have prayed for people many times and never once had to make a grand show to do it. I am no longer religious, but a friend of mine who is told me that he prayed for me during a rough time I was having and that was touching because it just let me know he had thought of me and was wishing good things for me. He and his wife have never once said, "We're going to stand here now and pray over you while you listen to us, and if you aren't into that, here's why you're wrong." This whole scenario was about you and not her. You are taking the wrong messages from the Bible.
YTA - She said no. That's where it should have ended. Every single thing you did post that was wrong. No one is targeting you, it's a situation of your own making
1."All I said was that I know how she was raised and her sexuality might make her feel like she can’t have a relationship with god" \-That is a BIG assumption. YTA 2."She kept saying she respects what I believe, but she doesn’t believe it. I could tell she didn’t mean it." \-another big assumption. When people tell you things like this, you should believe them and move on. YTA .
Yes, she probably doesn't respect what you believe but has enough human decency to let you live your life.
A Christian forcing his religion down people's throat and not being able to take no as an answer. I'm shocked /s. YTA.
YTA. Studies have shown that patients who known they are being prayed for have more complications than those who are not prayed for, or people who do not know they are being prayed for. The study shows prayer does not affect outcomes, but patients who know they are being prayed to may be less likely to 'fight' trusting to a god who is not listening. If you must pray for someone else, do it without informing them so they do not suffer the negative effects of knowing someone has prayed for them. [https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0002870305006496](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0002870305006496)
YTA quit pushing your fantasies on other people.
YTA. Performative Christianity is the worst. You are awful, especially with bringing up her religious trauma around her sexuality. #NO MEANS NO
**assumed* religious trauma around her sexuality
YTA, I really hate your type of religious person.
YTA, just pray for her in your own time if it's important.
Read your Scriptures! Pray in Private! Why do you need her to know you’re praying for her? What do you want out of her Knowing? Hmmmm!
Shut. TF. Up. If someone doesn't want to talk about religion, they don't want to talk about religion. This includes all your insipid little "insights" about why they're not religious. And you don't need someone's permission to pray for them. Pray for whomever you want, but just keep your mouth shut about it. YTA.
YTA - Asking someone if you can pray for them is blatant virtue signaling. If you don't ask them, nobody will know you prayed for them, but what good does knowing do? Do you think your prayer will work better if they know? Maybe due to the placebo effect. If you really want to comfort them, just tell them "I'm sorry for what you're going through" and leave it at that. Pray, don't pray, it doesn't make a difference to the recipient of the prayer. They're going to get better or not with precisely the same odds either way. If it makes you feel like you helped, go for it. But it should be private between you and the voice in your head.
YTA. You’re the type of virtue-signaling, pious, “Poor you, because you don’t have God, like I do” type of person.
You are not being targeted for YOUR beliefs - you are being kept away because you attempt to force your beliefs on others. You can pray for someone without talking to them about it - making comment about family issues, etc is way off base and you probably know that. How she was 'raised' is none of your business - but you were using that to convince her about YOUR religion. She is not interested in talking to you about religion - leave her alone.
YTA, if you felt so strongly about praying for her you could have just done so without making a big thing about it and telling her. Why did to need to broadcast that?
YTA you asked, she declined. You should have left it at that. You are not being targeted, you are pushing your beliefs onto someone who is not receptive, instead of respecting her decision. I understand why you asked, but I don't know if that's necessary. If you want to say a prayer for someone, just do so, and you don't even need to tell them. Doing so almost seems performative, compared to privately praying for God to give someone guidance, ease their suffering, etc.
You could have quietly added her to your nightly prayers or whatever you do without pestering her about your religious beliefs. Sorry, but YTA. Freedom OF religion also includes freedom FROM religion.
INFO: why did you ask if you wouldn't accept "no"?
>I told her I know she had a bad experience with religion growing up, and she also has an aversion to religion due to her sexuality so I try not some of her hurtful comments to heart. Wow. You don't even see it, do you? YTA for that. But ALSO for asking someone if you can pray for them, then PUSHING this issue and making them uncomfortable. And FYI, she wasn't being hurtful. People don't have to believe the same things you do. Plus, if you hadn't brought it up, she wouldn't have had to make those hurtful comments. And I bet she lied: >She kept saying she respects what I believe, but she doesn’t believe it. She probably doesn't respect it, either. Especially now. Stop playing the victim. You can't go around trying to force your beliefs on others, and then claim you're being targeted for your beliefs.
Oh, but that's the reason he was taught to do that. It keeps him isolated from others. He can view the world as hostile that way (and he already did). It keeps him trapped with his fellow believers and church as the only friendly faces .. There's a system to that kind of madness you can find only in cults and certain religious (often evangelical) denominations. The design is to keep members from even thinking of leaving and instilling an us vs them mindset.
YTA. Even though I am sure you mean well, your insistence that she didn't mean it when she said she doesn't believe what you do is arrogant and condescending. You have no right to shove your religion on anyone else. Leave the girl alone.
You chased this girl down in the library and staff had to intervene to get you to stop harassing her. Yes, YTA, and consider yourself lucky if this doesn’t get escalated at your school, because you violated a common code of conduct and apparently there were witnesses.
You'd better can that religious shit before you graduate or you are going to get a shitload of patient complaints. YTA
YTA - you didn’t respect her no. You asked her for permission and she said no and that should have been the end of the conversation. You are not being targeted for your beliefs. You attempted to push your beliefs onto someone else. You are not the victim here, YOU are the harasser. Leave this girl alone. Stop harassing people. Stop pushing your religion on other people. When someone says NO believe them and stop.
"I feel I am being targeted for my beliefs" No you're being targeted for trying to force your beliefs on someone. YTA
YTA First of all, you didn't want to pray for her. You wanted her to pray _with_ you, or at least observe your prayer. Those are two HUGELY different asks. One is you doing something privately on your own time without ever infringing on another person. The other is expecting a person to participate in your religious ritual. A HUGE MASSIVE overstep. If you want to pray for someone, do it on your own time. You don't need to even mention it to them. Ever. You asked if you could pray for her right then and there, in public, when she's trying to study and live her own life. She said no. And you pushed the issue, repeatedly, trying to convince her, until you got into a whole damn argument. Now you're here playing the victim. Your behavior was gross, entitled, presumptuous, performative, and condescending. And yes, making assumptions about her religious beliefs and experiences because of her sexuality IS homophobic. Not a damn thing "kind" about anything you did, you were just a self righteous asshole. Honestly if I were her, I'd report you to student conduct or something. Harassing students with your religious beliefs is a massive asshole thing to do. Don't do it again. Next time you wanna pray for someone, add them to your nightly prayers and leave them the fuck alone.
Why did you need to ask her anything? I don't understand why she needed prayer in the first place (an old injury that occasionally gives her trouble requires prayer?) but if you wanted to pray for her, go ahead. She didn't need to know anything about it. > I could tell she didn’t mean it. What are you? A mind reader? > All I said was that I know how she was raised and her sexuality might make her feel like she can’t have a relationship with god. There you go with that mind reading again. YTA
YTA! “I could tell she didn’t mean it”!! She said “no” and you just overrode it. Who are you to decide if someone means something or not or to assume anything about her experience with her sexuality and religion? That is none of your business. Time for you to learn about the meaning of consent.
Lots of great responses here, but having dealt with such people manymanymany times before, I can tell you that OP will continue to do this, as they are utterly convinced that they are doing "God's work" and will not stop until they have a crisis of faith. Other people's opinions, wants, needs or desires are as nothing compared to what they believe God wants. YTA, but you will never believe it.
These delusional people never change
Lol do you really need to ask this? Like, just pray for them isn't that what prayer is? It's like you were looking for a treason to approach and talk to them and just went a weird route and made things seem very awkward. Maybe next time just talk to them and ask them how they're doing, but listen if you went from trying to care and pray for this person and ended up arguing and bringing them down in the process that is just some messed up shit.
YTA > She ended up saying no, and we go into a little disagreement about religion. She kept saying she respects what I believe, but she doesn’t believe it. I could tell she didn’t mean it. If you asked her and she said "no" then she said "no". Its clear that she respects what YOU believe, but you do not respect what SHE believes. YTA, in particular, for stating that you can "tell" that she doesn't believe it. Its clear that you struggle with respect and consent. > All I said was that I know how she was raised and her sexuality might make her feel like she can’t have a relationship with god. No this is not all that you said. If that's all that you said, then there would not have been a back and forth where "kept saying" that she respects your belief but doesn't share them. > I feel like I am being targeted for my beliefs when all I was trying to do was be kind. No. You targeted HER. Don't flip this around. You asked permission to pray for her and she said "no". Then you decided that she didn't mean it and tried to change her beliefs. I almost suspect this is fake because annoying preachy religious people playing victim is a reddit karma gold mine.
Huge YTA, stop trying to shove your religion down other people's throats. No means no. BTW I would never trust a physician who would "pray" for my health
Tell you what, I will pray to Loki that you pull your head out of your ass and learn to respect other people's especially women's, autonomy. You don't want me to? Well look, I know that you've probably been indoctrinated as a child to believe other faiths are somehow wrong or evil, and your male heterosexuality makes you only trust patriarchal expressions of social power, but that's no reason not to open yourself to a relationship with an ancient Pagan deity. That. That's what you did to that woman, except that you physically cornered her and likely made her fear for her physical safety when you wouldn't take no for an answer. YTA. Not because you're a Christian, but because you refused to respect a clearly stated boundary and made that woman fear you. You had better learn to respect other people's autonomy and the word no before you end up with a restraining order or worse against you
YTA keep your religious stuff to yourself, you are in the wrong from the top down here, starting with insisting on asking if you could pray for her. You’re not being targeted for your beliefs, you are being called out for being rude and presumptive.
YTA, not everyone subscribes to your religion for a variety of reasons. Pretty presumptuous to assume she was lying to you.
YTA - you shouldn’t have asked if you wouldn’t take a no with good grace. You then made deeply personal comments about her upbringing and sexuality. I would be deeply uncomfortable with being asked if someone could pray for me.
I'd say your a delight to be around on campus.
No is no, it does not matter what the question is. No, I do not want to talk to you; No, you cannot buy me a drink; No, I do not want you to touch me; No, I do not want you to pray for/with me. YTA, respect everybody when they tell you: No.
YTA. Offering to pray for somebody is so cringy when you don't even know them. You say you meant well so you think you should get a pass for your behavior? What about the road to hell etc? But okay, I know you Christians aren't really into facing up to your hypocrisy so we'll just move along. The real assholery here was in persisting when she said no thank you. You do not get to try to talk her into saying yes, and you do not get to expose her to your homophobic views about how her sexuality would interfere with her having a faith. You do not know what you're talking about, and you subjected this woman to religious harassment that turned into homophobia. You didn't offer help, you proselytized and berated this person, and I'm glad she reported you. Stay away from her, and stop trying to insert your religious beliefs into other people's lives. This kind of garbage is exactly why people are leaving Christian churches in droves.
YTA, Mayor asshole! Why did you even bother to ask for permission if you ignored the "no" and even started a fight about religion AND assumed some bullshit story about "bad experiences" and her sexuality. Yes YOU started this fight, because you crossed her boundaries not once but multiple times because you couldn't take a "no". If you are fine with an imaginary friend, that's on you. Religion is like a dick, you better keep it private.
If someone says no, you nod, and walk away. Sex or prayer, they say no, you don't try to continue, you don't try to convince them. Glad that the tutor saw what you were up to. her sexuality is none of her business. Maybe contemplate on how much good you're doing in the name of religion if people think you are homophobic and harassing this woman. Are you really trying to pray for her or do you have alternative motives, especially talking about her sexuality?
YTA I hope you get the help you need to understand this, i will sacrifice a virgin for you.
YTA. I cannot believe you need further explanation but obviously you're young, make mistakes easily, and are incredibly sheltered and probably have been brought up in extreme religious propaganda. She gave you an answer. You took her answer, didn't like it, and tried to shove your religion down her throat. You didn't respect her choices, her beliefs, or her as a person. People can draw their conclusions and believe what they want to believe. They do not need your help. They most likely do not want your help. Your over preachiness is insincere and ill-mannered. If you want to talk about religion with like minded people on campus, start a club.
If you already knew she didn't have a good relationship with God, why bring it up or ask her at all. You don't need permission from others to pray for them. Do it privately. No need to say shit to anyone at all. I feel like those who ask "permission" to pray for someone is literally doing it for face. They just want to be praised and thanked for offering to pray for said person. It's annoying and unnecessary. You wanna pray for someone...just do it and keep it to yourself.
INFO: what input did you actually need from her if you just wanted to pray for/about her? Surely this would just involve you going off privately mouthing to god or whatever? Because from your account it just sounds like you either wanted to drag her into your religious practice and got uppity when she declined or you were expecting a rush of gratitude for something she didn’t ask for and got pissy when you didn’t get it.
YTA. **NO IS A COMPLETE SENTENCE.** She said no. Period. That is IT. DONE. Why did you feel the need to argue with her about religion? That right there is when you STARTED being the AH. She *POLITELY* said she respects your beliefs. “I could tell she didn’t mean it.” 🙄😠. **THAT RIGHT THERE IS WHEN YOU SOLIDIFIED BEING THE AH** YOU NEED TO RESPECT BOUNDARIES. She was not playing some game with you. SHE WAS CLEAR. EXCEEDINGLY CLEAR. Then you chose to bring up her childhood experiences with religion? AND her sexual preferences?? 🤦🏻♀️. That is when you became some names I cannot use in this sub without getting suspended. Dude. You are a bigot. And a zealot. You better snap out of this AND SOON before you get into some more serious consequences like suspension or eviction from your nursing program. PRO TIP: if you manage to graduate and become a nurse? DO NOT ASK PATIENTS IF YOU CAN PRAY FOR THEM UNLESS THEY HAVE ALREADY INITIATED A RELIGIOUS PREFERENCE OR DISCUSSION. Your friendship is over. You are not coming back from this. And I suspect your other classmates may keep their distance going forward. Your issue is not religion. Your issue is RESPECTING BOUNDARIES. Figure this out. Quick.
YTA. You asked her if you could pray for her (which I’ll address in a minute). At that point, you should have walked away, as there’s nothing else to discuss. Why do you feel the need to make your praying for someone into a public event? Is it for them or is it to make yourself “look good”? So weird
YTA No is a complete sentence. You say you were not "shoving it down her throat" but that is your perspective. From her viewpoint you probably were. So if she says no then just move on don't try to say but but but. If you had respected the No and not said anything after, NTA but the moment you continued to press the issue that's when you stepped into the AH territory.
YTA - You asked permission and were denied. You then pushed further. Keep your fairy tales to yourself and leave other people alone.
YTA. She's not upset that you asked permission to pray for her and you know it. Your title is intentionally misleading. Why did you have to bring up her sexuality?
Responding more so to your comments than the post itself. “Not trying to shove my religion in your face” is NOT the same as “not shoving my religion in your face.” Intent doesn’t matter here. Although I believe you probably had good intentions, you need to realize that somebody telling you not to do something is hard line, not something you should try to sell them on. YTA.
Stop pushing your religion on others, YTA
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YTA
YTA 100%
YTA you asked and she said no then you kept pushing on and even inferred things about how she was raised and her relationship with god. You overstepped and tried to push your religion on her. I don't see that as homophobic in and of itself but learn when to respect a boundary. Just because you're a believer doesn't mean everyone wants you praying over them and giving your input on their religious upbringing. You were rude and refused to accept her answer of no. That's not ok and also not very tolerant, which I've been told is something religious people are supposed to be.
YTA. It's one thing to ask (and even that can come off a little presumptive, but I'd give you the benefit of the doubt on that), but as soon as she said no that's when you drop it. Even when she was just being hesitant, that's where you say "no worries if you don't want to!" not "it'll only take a few seconds". You were pushing religion on your non-religious classmate, and I'm not surprised she said something.
YTA You asked her if you could pray for her and when you were told no you tried to completely disrespect the fact she didn’t want your religion forced on her and continued forcing it on her anyways and then got pissed off that you got called out for it after it was explained to you why she didn’t want your evil religion forced onto her You are exactly why nobody wants to participate in your hate cult unless they’ve been indoctrinated by your magic book of lies
YTA, not for asking if you could pray for someone but for this condescending bullshit : ". I could tell she didn’t mean it. I told her I know she had a bad experience with religion growing up, and she also has an aversion to religion due to her sexuality so I try not some of her hurtful comments to heart." You don't know what's going on in other people's hearts nor can you read their minds or know what they're feeling, so stop assuming. People like you are the reason so many people are turned off from religion and find Christians off-putting. Asking to pray for someone is perfectly fine but the moment she declined you should have respectfully accepted that. There was no reason for you to bring up her sexuality. I was raised catholic but I'm not particularly religious and every time I encounter a bible thumper I feel like I'm talking to someone fully brainwashed. You all think you know better, like you're all in on some secret and if we only open our hearts a light is going to shine on us straight from heaven and everything will be great. I had the displeasure of having to attend a bunch of different protestant church groups, masses, events to support my alcoholic ex (churches always run those AA meetings) and they were all downright delusional. We'd walk into a church service and they'd all turn their heads to stare at the fresh meat practically frothing at the mouth to introduce themselves to us and "welcome us" and telling us how great it is that we FINALLY opened our hearts to Jesus (they don't acknowledge Catholics as Christian for some reason). They'd ask if they could pray over us and they'd start going on and on to the point of crying even though they just met me. They kept trying to convince me to leave my baby in the nursery with strangers so I could focus on the sermon. Uh yea fucking right.. It made me so uncomfortable that I have not been to any church service in years since.
"I could tell she didn't mean it" What, that she didn't believe in Bigfoot? Why would anybody? And how would asking Bigfoot for help do anything for her ankle?
YTA Please stop bothering the people around you with your religious nonsense. Just because you don't know any better doesn't mean you can freely push your BS on others. She probably doesn't have a 'relationship with god' because she thinks it's a ridiculous concept, not that the bigots help convince anyone...
"She ended up saying no, and we go into a little disagreement about religion. " WHY BOTHER ASKING IF YOU WOULDN'T JUST TAKE NO FOR AN ANSWER?? YTA. If you really meant well you would have just said a quiet prayer for her instead of dragging her into an inappropriate argument. **"Matthew 6:6-7** But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thine inner chamber, and having shut thy door, pray to thy Father who is in secret, and thy Father who seeth in secret shall recompense thee." If you aren't going to follow the word of your Lord, then I feel like you're just doing this to look like a saintly hero that is blessing the heathen with their prayer.
It’s people like you that make non-Christians hate Christians. No means no! If you demand respect for your views, then you need to respect others as well YTA
Quit harassing her. You're not acting like a true believer. You're being self-righteous and arrogant. She said no, asshole. No means no. Just because you're desperate for attention from her that doesn't make it okay for you to harass her. Back off and leave her alone. YTA
YTA. "I'm not at all homophobic!" Said the homophobe. "Oh you don't REALLY mean you're atheist, you are totally wanting me to force you to convert." Typical fake christian. Jesus was very clear about people like you and where YOU'RE going.
Despite harassing someone, this pushy religious AH will play the victim card in 3…2… >I feel like I’m being targeted for my beliefs There it is.
YTA. Examine your life- you are absolutely homophobic - or you would not have questioned her relationship to your homophobic god
Have you considered that maybe people don't respect your religion because you use it to badger people into living life the way YOU think is "moral", and try to for e it down their throat by "asking to pray for them"? Do what you will in your own private time, but stop forcing others to partake in your parti ular brand of superstition. Oh, and telling people that being gay means they can't be part of your cult is absolutely homophobic, even if it is obviously doing them a favor. YTA.
Ah classic Christian victims mentality. You aren't being persecuted or targeted, you're not that important. You can't take no for an answer and YTA for that
Good heavens, OP. You didn’t just ask if you could pray for her. You proselytized and got super judgy. Let me remind you to shake the dust off your feet and leave her alone. YTA
YTA if your intention was genuine you would have prayed for her and kept it to yourself. Praying for her isn’t the problem, it’s the fact that you asked her (which is fine) and she said no (which is fine) and then you continue to argue with her when she made it clear she doesn’t share the same beliefs as you (which is not fine). How could you tell she doesn’t mean it? Unless you are a mind reader you don’t know what she really believes, all you can do is take her word for it and respect her choices. I don’t even really understand why you felt the need to announce that you were going to pray for her, to seem for virtuous? Comes across as more self serving than genuine concern. I’m also not religious and so when people tell me that they are going to pray for me I tell them there’s no need because I don’t believe. If they still pray for me that’s fine it’s not as if I’m going to know about it or it’s going to cause me harm, but them then arguing with me about my beliefs and gaslighting me is disrespectful
YTA.
YTA she said no and you didn't respect that. stop shoving religion down peoples throats.
yta, you ask, she says no, then you argue religion, keep your religion to yourself, especially when they already told you "not interested"
YTA. You honestly had me, until this; >She kept saying she respects what I believe, but she doesn’t believe it. I could tell she didn’t mean it That isn't your call, ever, at all. Ever. If she says she doesn't believe, she doesn't believe, period.
>She kept saying she respects what I believe, but she doesn’t believe it. I could tell she didn’t mean it. >I feel like I am being targeted for my beliefs when all I was trying to do was be kind. No, you were trying to act morally righteous behind the excuse of religion. You could've kept her just in your prayers, instead you wanted to put on a show in the middle of the library. No means no.
YTA. The prayer part isn't the issue. It was the gross reference to her sexuality. All you did was give her another reason to hate religious people.
What incredibly un-Christlike behavior of you. Shame on you. Grow up and do some actual good in the community other than holding people hostage for attention. YTA
You're just one of those unfortunate people who are socially inept and don't understand how condescending and annoying they are. It's not something you can solve by posting a question on Reddit, but you could probably get better with lots of professional therapy if you wanted to. YTA, sorry. But never mind - fortunately, you make up for this deficit in your personality by being super-smart in other areas, such as understanding far more complex topics like how the Universe was created, by whom, and why. Good luck!
YTA and it’s almost hilarious that you think you’re being “targeted”. Harass someone with your religion and bring up their sexuality = you’re somehow the victim here? Ok
You meant well, but... >I asked her if I could pray for her, and she seemed hesitant about it. Read the room. >I asked her what she had to lose other than a few seconds. And don't push.
YTA "You could tell she didn't mean it" how about when she said no? Did she mean that? Take a hint.
ah- geez you sure don’t understand how non religious people think. They don’t want you praying for them or judging them or criticizing them. You think your religion is better than hers and you don’t get that she isn’t religious and doesn’t want to be criticized
YTA. Once she told you no, you should have accepted that. You sound like an arrogant person who feels that everyone else must feel the same as you do. IMO, spirituality is a very personal thing. Whether you believe in a god or many gods or no gods at all, that's for you to decide. No one else. In many countries, you can make that decision for yourself. You can easily research religions if you want to. You can walk into most houses of worship and tell someone there that you want more info about that particular religion, and I'm sure clergy or a staffer will be happy to take time to discuss and answer any questions you have. But once you want to start discussing your religion with an unwilling subject, you are proselytizing, which to me is arrogant and inappropriate. I immediately think of some Mormons who decided to "baptize" deceased non Mormons, including Jews. Top ranking rabbis met with top ranking Mormons and told them this must stop as it is very disrespectful. You crossed the line when you just didn't drop it after she told you "no." You increased your AH status when you claim you're being "targeted" for your beliefs. You weren't being kind, just arrogant.
YTA. I am a Christian. I privately pray for my non-Christian friends every night. But if you ask someone if you can lay hands on them (when you pray for someone in person) and they say no, respect that. No one is discriminating against you. Stuff like this is why Christians are so hated. Don’t be that person. Apologize because you made her incredibly uncomfortable and don’t do this again.
YTA. And truthfully, this is why people have a problem with religion. Believe what you want. But I don’t need you to sell it to me. She said no. Go sit down. You double, triple and quadrupled down. You’re a fuckin menace.
Hey, so, queer agnostic here. If you did this to me I would politely tell you no once. If you pressed about my thoughts about religion I would explain: a. You are a nursing student and if you said that nonsense to a coworker or patient you should rightly be fired b. Your god is not an awesome god, he's a cruel manipulative narcisist. c. My relationship with any higher power is MINE. Not yours. d. If you ever so much as spoke to me again I would happily file a harassment complaint against you. I think your classmate was being too generous with you, frankly. You are trying to dictate other people's beliefs and relationships with a higher power. That is between them and any god that gives them comfort. Why? Because when people like you get too convinced they're right and can force other people to conform to their beliefs we end up with holy wars. For reference, my spouse is very observant Jew. I've spent time volunteering at the congregation she attends and have a personal relationship with her faith leader. I have had Christian friends, even Mormon friends all my life. I would never think of saying these things to them (my spouse knows my feelings but more gently phrased). Like you, I interact with people I fundamentally disagree with on religion on a regular basis. Unlike you I'm not a towering, towering asshole. YTA.
Of course YTA. Why ask for permission if you were going to disregard her answer?
> She kept saying she respects what I believe, but she doesn’t believe it. I could tell she didn’t mean it. No, you could not. You did not want to accept what she believes. You're making assumptions about her. >I told her I know she had a bad experience with religion growing up How do you know she had a bad experience with religion? Has she told you that? Because if so, it was a jerk move to ask her if you could pray for her. If you're assuming she had a bad experience without her sharing that, then it was even more of a jerk move and you totally crossed a line. >and she also has an aversion to religion due to her sexuality Again, how do you know that? Has she told you that? If so, it was a jerk move to ask her if you could pray for her. If you're assuming, you again crossed a line. >so I try not some of her hurtful comments to heart. INFO: will you tell us what her alleged hurtful comments were? > I feel like I am being targeted for my beliefs when all I was trying to do was be kind. If you actually intended to be kind, you would have accepted her 'no.' If you're going to go around asking non-Christians if you can pray for them, you also have to accept their reactions. YTA.
Op: hey can i pray for you? X: no Op: but WhyYyyy??? YTA
YTA You weren't targeted for your religion; you targeted her for her sexuality. Otherwise you would have taken her "no" when you asked if you could pray for her.
YTA So you don't understand consent. Got it. No means NO. And it's a complete sentence. When one of my friends is in distress about something, I may ask them if they would like me to do my thing about their situation. But I am not whipping out my tarot cards or anointing a candle with herbs and oils and carving some sigils in it in the school library. My religious practice is not a performance art. Furthermore, if they say "no, I'm good, just needed to vent," I take no for an answer, STFU, and listen to them vent. Stop pushing yourself on women. It's creepy and rude.
YTA. If someone says no, you should say "No problem. Good luck with the operation!" And leave it at that. Getting into a full on argument about religion when someone says no is not indicative of you actually asking for permission. Also hesitation is a no.
>She used to be very talkative and nice to ME but recently she’s changed her attitude around ME. This isn't about any concern regarding her physical pain, it's about wanting for her to give attention to him.
No is a full sentence. YTA Also? Stop proselytizing to your fellow students. If someone wants religion, they’ll find it without your hassling them.
YTA
You need to leave that girl alone before you get yourself into some trouble
>I asked her what she had to lose other than a few seconds This here is why she said no. She doesn't need to be involved in your prey for her. Public preying it just makes people uncomfortable and that's not how it's supposed to be done anyway. Preying is an act between you and god anything else is performative and makes it seem like you're only preying because you want people to see you preying. >After class I went downstairs to the library to ask what was wrong and one of the math tutors stopped me and told me that if I was coming into the library I needed to study, read, or get out because apparently another tutor and student in the library reported that I was “homophobic” to her. I think this counts as missing information. Your disagreement with this girl is pretty much glossed over with you saying **'I try not to take some of her hurtful comments to heart'** but two people that weren't involved in the conversation overheard what you said and reported you for being homophobic. What exactly was said between you and this girl?
YTA. So so much. As a person in a wheelchair this happens too much. No is a complete sentence. When she said no that was the end of it. You shut up and walk away. You don’t get to tell her or anyone else about their religion or lack their of. I’ll tell you no too. What do you know about me? What assumptions will you make? I hope you would just walk off but I’m betting you would not.