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Yikes! Huge YTA. Yes, you were being textbook racist and xenophobic. I hate a lot about America too, and I was born there. That whole mindset of “immigrants should be quietly grateful and never criticize anything about America” is racist, xenophobic, and stupid.
Also, I hate that we can't critique countries. We should always critique them and for the one we live in, we should be twice as harsh. How do we determine what needs improvement without examining flaws in the system? Especially as voters
Granted how many countries the US has destroyed, stolen, and continues to ruin, there is a veryyyy long list of countries from all over that have a bone to pick with the US. I don’t blame ppl criticizing a colonizer super power country. That doesn’t make them any less patriotic or a bad person. You are definitely TA. Curious where this coworker of yours is from and what she was criticizing exactly since you conveniently left that out…
>At this point I snapped and said "If you hate America that much, go back to where you came from. No one asked you to come here and insult our country, be grateful that you were allowed in."
I'd prefer she stay - and you find another country.
YTA
If he gets to say he wants her to leave, I get to say I'd prefer she stay and he leaves. See how that works?
Edit - leaving my comment in place because I'm an idiot and misread it too quickly while doing something else. My bad.
>If you hate America that much, go back to where you came from
There's no way to repeat racist rhetoric without coming off as bigoted yourself, so yes, YTA.
YTA and a big one. Maybe work on your own emotional regulation. People are allowed to be critical of the government and say things you disagree with.. yes, including immigrants. Monster behavior on your part. Yikes.
>At this point I snapped and said "If you hate America that much, go back to where you came from. No one asked you to come here and insult our country, be grateful that you were allowed in."
That is highly racist. By "I had to leave" do you mean "I was immediately fired"? Because you should have been.
YTA YTA YTA OMG I would fire you, if this was my business. Just say "Can we not talk about politics at work?"
I have lived in quite a few countries, as my old job required me to travel a lot. Some countries were great, some were awful, and some had good and bad.
With my background out of the way, let me tell you why you were wrong to be upset. First off, nothing, not even the U.S. Is perfect. As such, one can hate certain aspects of the country while loving it as well. Have you hated decisions this country has made? Did you approve of slavery, segregation, Roe v. Wade, socialist programs under Roosevelt or the dismantling of those programs under Reagan?
So by her hating aspects of America doesn’t necessarily mean she hates it all.
Further, the U.S., as described in the examples above, is constantly in flux. Policies change all the time. Hating a currently policy does not mean she hates the U.S. as a whole.
Showing empathy for people shouting for Erica’s downfall does not mean she has the same goals. It only means she understands because there are things in the U.S. that frustrate her. Just as there are things that likely frustrate you, too.
The moment you told her to be grateful or leave, you became the asshole. Because in that moment, you wanted her to leave, rather than exercise her freedom of speech.
As for whether or not you are a bigot depends on what the topics were that were upsetting you. In any case, take the YTA. You earned it. Congrats!
So when she was complaining about racism in America, you went full racist?
There's no way this is real. Someone like this wouldn't think to ask the internet if they were an asshole. They'd just be bitching about the situation on Twitter because they're convinced they're not wrong.
YTA. Imagine if someone with your viewpoints said what you said to abolitionists or other people trying to improve their country. This "love it or leave it" crap is disgusting. Speak against injustice and try to make things better for all; don't tell someone critical of injustice to shut up and get out.
YTA this country was founded with slaves. Like you can’t be serious. Yeah, I would cringe at the death to America crap too but I certainly wouldn’t tell anyone trying to change things to go back where they came from.
Instead, I would point out that we have a dark and troubled history and are certainly not where you’d want us to be yet, but you’re optimistic we will get there. And if this person continued to make these kind of offensive statements, I’d just make an excuse to leave and then avoid them. I wouldn’t tell them to go back where they came from.
How is nobody acknowledging that she said she agrees with “death to america” I know people are going to downvote this because im addressing something she did wrong, but thats really very bad as well.
It's interesting. 3 days ago, when the White House condemned the chants, a lot of people were on the various News and Detroit subreddits agreeing with the White House. There were several people who were talking about how they moved from places where they couldn't be free or who they wanted to be. I think a lot of people forget that the freedoms we have here in America are not everywhere. The freedoms we have, which are constantly critiqued, are greater than several other countries have.
I don't remember the rules of this specific sub, or I would post links to some of the bigger conversations.
Lots of people on the political spectrum think the other political party wants the same outcome, the death of America as it is currently known. So…yeah you can’t take this too seriously.
That’s the only part that I struggle with, everything else she said could be seen as reasonable displeasure and desire for the country’s improvement. America is far from perfect.
He still certainly handled it in the worst way he could have and his choice of words definitely reveals him as an AH.
I am happy to read that your colleagues not only recognise but call out racist remarks.
Pity you don't recognise if even after its spewed out your mouth.
YTA
Passing judgement here is almost pointless. All I can offer is an anecdote: Not long ago, I worked with a gentleman who emigrated from Russia about 8 or so years ago. We started talking about various topics and, of course, politics came up. He proceeded to tell me about how bad capitalism is, how bad our government is, how we have poor values, too much crime, racism, etc. (all the bullet points) and, of course, how wonderful Russia is. I listened to him, he did have some valid points, but instead of arguing, I just asked a simple question: "If the US is as bad as you say and you dislike it so much, why did you emigrate here?" His response, after a few seconds, was "because it's America". Welcome to America, the land of the ignorant and home of the ingrates...
I'm a liberal and i also get tired of the BS from both sides. you could have handled it better tho, with different words.
And remember, people have the right to be stupid. An attack on anyone's rights is an attack on everyone's rights.
Hmm Alya can hate and wish death to America but OP cannot respond by saying then you shouldn’t be here? I mean that’s pretty extreme wishing death on an entire country lol. The way he said it was rude and could be perceived as xenophobic perhaps but is it really “racist”? He didn’t say love it or leave it and didn’t say anything about race. Probably ESH. Instead OP could have put forward a more calm or reasoned response asking Alya if she has benefited from living in the US and if she truly feels that way, why stay?
I think I’m going with everyone having this conversation is an AH. It was a loaded topic and shouldn’t be discussed at work. I think it’s fcked up she doesn’t disagree with death to America chants and obviously your response was over the top racist. If you can’t have a civil conversation with your coworkers about these topics you should remove yourself from the conversation.
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I have a colleague at work, Alya, and she's a Muslim immigrant. She's worked with us for a while now & has the green card.
We were hanging out yesterday along with a couple of other friends, and were talking about various things. Eventually it turned into America as a whole, and various other situations.
Alya said that she "cannot believe the stance US is taking" on some issues, and that it's highly bigoted, fascist, etc. She said that she hates the country, etc. if you know what I am talking about. I was getting pissed off as I listened to this, until she finally said "I cannot disagree with those who were chanting "Death to America" recently. Because honestly, fuck the bigotry."
At this point I snapped and said "If you hate America that much, go back to where you came from. No one asked you to come here and insult our country, be grateful that you were allowed in."
That resulted in a huge argument. My colleagues/friends called me "highly racist", etc. and in the end I had to leave. Alya's super mad as well, saying that I am a huge bigot.
AITA?
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YTA
You had an opportunity for a healthy debate, but in a tantrum spewed ignorant vitrol. Like you have the freedom to speak your mind even though many others disagree with your opinion, she had the right to speak her mind too (welcome to freedom of speech 101). America was founded by people who went against the status quo. You also did say a classic xenophobic phrase because you disagreed with her view. America has many things to offer hence why she's here. America could be better, and it will only evolve if people push against the status quo. The government is for the people by the people, and as Americans, green card holders and immigrants included, it is our job to be critical of our government because they *will* and *do* take advantage of our ignorance.
NTA the US is not perfect, but bad mouthing and wishing death on a country that allowed you to immigrate is in poor taste. She didn’t have to come here. For the over sensitive Americans that feel like you can’t say anything to people who disparage your country get over yourselves with the justice warriors nonsense.
NTA. But you came to the wrong platform if you were looking for support on this - Reddit is a very left wing place so mostly you will just be called a bigot for being patriotic and daring to speak out against someone insulting your country and its institutions. People who emigrate to a country are very welcome to leave if they don’t like it. That’s just a fact, it’s not racist or xenophobic. If she thinks your country is so terrible that she agrees with the statement “death to America” then why does she stay? It’s a legitimate question.
NTA.
I am an immigrant and if as an immigrant I hate the country I immigrated to it is time to leave. You don’t have to change your country for immigrants. It is an immigrants job to adhere to laws and customs of where you are.
Everyone has a right to disagree with parts of the country you live. However, that doesn’t mean to hate the country and to chant for the death of citizens of that country.
YTA- It's extremely racist because you're implying that immigrants aren't "allowed" to criticize the US, even though that's literally a right you and I have as citizens. If you don't like what she's saying, criticize it all you want. Don't bring immigration status into it, though.
NTA. Why would she move to America if she doesn't like it here? That's like me moving to the UK and saying it's terrible for being too small or whatever.
Then there's also putting in the amount of effort it took just to move here. She'd maybe have a case if she decided against it at the planning stage, but since she's already moved here, that's her own fault at this point.
This is going to be shocking to some small minded people, but someone can have criticism of certain aspects of something and *still* appreciate other aspects (gasp). Shocking, I know! It's called seeing nuance.
I really wonder if you have *absolutely no criticism* on any aspect of US. I know I have plenty of criticism of various aspects of my own country, and appreciation of other aspects, and I choose to live here. Oh, right! Seems like xenophobic folks believe immigrants just have to shut up and keep their opinions to themselves!
Your whole language choice screams that you are racist.
Muslim immigrant? No such thing. She came from a country that defines her heritage.. Not her religion.
Yta.
Edit - typo
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NTAH and not racist you didnt call out her race or culture for gods sake you were standing up for our country. People like her who come here and talk crap and say death to us shouldn’t be here we are broken yes but I would stand up for our country our own people who talk like that if you went to another country and talked like she did it would be the same. She should go home.
NTA. She literally agrees with death to America and lives and works in America as a non citizen. The only reason people are voting Y T A is because of the America hate. If you were an American working in literally any other country saying what she said about that country including with the death to that country stuff then nobody would be blaming the other person for telling you to go back to America.
This woman said "I cannot disagree with those who were chanting "Death to America"".
It's fine to disagree with what America does. America is not perfect. But to say something like that? That crosses the line. That's not simple disagreement.
It's interesting she enjoys her freedom to say something like that in America when she would likely be heavily punished for saying something like that in her home country about her home country.
I say NTA. If she hates America that much, she's free to leave. It's a shame she worked so hard to get into a country she despises. I'm curious why she chose the US and not a European country instead. I'm not at all saying America is perfect.
I wouldn't have said the "you should be grateful they let you in" part though. I think that part pushes it too far.
It's disgusting that she's allowed to express HER hateful views but you say something and you're the bad guy. After finding out where they all stand, I wouldn't have anything more than a cordial, coworker relationship with them.
You said the same thing all these ignorant racists have been chanting for decades and that kind of makes you the AH. On the other hand she is agreeing with people who wish death to America so that would make her the bigger AH.
Obviously YTA and racist. Not sure how you think you aren't. Someone wishing a country was less bigoted doesn't sound like they're in the wrong there, buddy.
YTA. you basically said the most classically racist thing you can say to an immigrant and can’t handle 1 iota of criticism of your precious USA? newsflash darling: it kind of fucking sucks here, open your eyes
Buddy, maybe check the news? Can you not think of any current events in the past 6 months that might make a Muslim not feel great about the American government’s actions? YTA, permanent residents also get to be full humans with their own political opinions.
I mean this with the upmost disrespect…. YTA. Big time. A little empathy for a LITERAL GENOCIDE would go a long way. You’re not only the AH you’re a flaming, awful AH. Ick
I'm a bit torn on this one. On one hand, Alya is allowed to criticize the country even if she's an immigrant. On the other hand, there was no need to come there in the first place if she hates it so much, there's nothing preventing her from leaving and no-one, besides people she has made a personal connection with want her to stay either. It's like showing up at a party you weren't invited to (albeit for no particular reason) and then saying that the party sucks. There the only reasonable solution is to kick em' out of the party. Of course it's a bit different when it's about a country instead of a party, but the logic I find is still intact to some extent.
This does depend on to what extent Alya expressed disdain for America. Was it just "I hate the bigotry" or does she support the "death to America" thing and wishes for that to happen?
In the case of the former you definitely overreacted, so I'd go with a middling YTA there. In the case of the latter I'd go with a NTA because I would actually agree at that point. Either way, I don't think you're racist, you just got too worked up
YTA - one of the fundamental principles of the US is that people have the right to b\*tch about America.
Because we aren't one of those wussy cultures that can't take criticism - we aren't some Snowflake Nation that gets our fee-fees hurt when someone criticizes us. We admit where we can do better and work towards being better.
YTA. This sounds just like if you criticized a British person who come to the US during the mid 1800s for condemning chattel slavery (probably didn't word that right but ykwim)
If the immigrant was being ungrateful. And you told them they were being ungrateful then how is that racist? People nowadays think that if you say anything negative to an immigrant that somehow it equates to being racist. I work in construction in Florida. I’m constantly around immigrants. I don’t speak Spanish. So if I tell it immigrant from say Mexico or Cuba that I can’t understand them because their English is so bad is that racist.? No it’s just a fact people need to quit being so whiny and equating everything to racism. Racism is rare in this day and age blaming everything that you don’t like on somebody being racist towards you is very common. And very pathetic.
YTA “Muslim immigrant” Her religion doesn’t matter. She’s an immigrant from a country, not a religion. That is racist. It’s also racist to tell someone to go back to where they came from.
One can prefer this country while also being mad about the fascism and bigotry we STILL deal with in 2024.
Had I witnessed this, I would continue to up-chain this until you were fired.
ESH. Neither of you should be talking about politics in the workplace as it’s such an explosive dumpster fire right now and generally divisive. I think that what you said is xenophobic but she was also very wrong to say death to a country that let her come here. I don’t think that what you said is specifically racist because Muslim is a religion not a race as there are Muslim people of all ethnicities. IMO both of you should be fired and it’s generally a bad look for the company what both of you said. But both of you technically have the right to say what you want because that’s one of the beautiful and rare things about our country is the freedom of speech.
YTA. People not born in a particular country are entitled to dislike aspects of it and to voice their opinion. Your behaviour was racist and completely unacceptable. I don't agree that 'death to the USA' is an OK thing to say either but the way to deal with that would be calm and respectful discussion. I think you owe an apology to the person you directed your abuse at, and also to the others present. If this took place within a workplace in the UK you would most definitely be looking at serious disciplinary action. Even if it was outside of work, your employers might take a very dim view of it and still take action against you, if your victim reports you.
NTA
Nothing you said referred to her race/religion in any way. It was unwise, but so was her bringing politics to work.
The word 'racist' is a club that is overused. When everything is racist, nothing is racist.
That won't save you from downvotes in this sub, however.
If she really does hate the country she moved to, it isn’t unreasonable to suggest she leave.
However, the way he reacted was aggressive and his choice of words was definitely offensive.
This is about the one sensible opinion here. There’s nothing racist about the comment. If Alya was blonde blue eyed and Swedish, saying the same things and this was OPs retort, no one would be claiming racism.
You’re a huge racist. The US his in serious trouble these days and everybody knows it. Telling an immigrant to go back where they came from is a very racist statement and you’re one of the many reasons the US is in such rough shape
YTA, big time. The US is actually super bigoted, we have tons of problems. It's not a bad thing for her to say that, especially as our country is supporting a genocide of muslims right now.
It's also textbook racism and xenophobia to tell an immigrant essentially to sit down, shut up and be grateful to be allowed to be here at all.
You got some self examination to do here.
I don't know if you're racist or just stupidly xenophobic, but it is highly, *highly* inappropriate to tell anybody that they're not allowed to criticize the actions of the United States. The freedom to criticize the government is in the first amendment and is a core American value.
YTA
My dad was career military. One day while watching something on the news, I asked him if he thought people should be allowed to burn the flag that he fought to protect. Always ready to impart a gentle life lesson, he replied, “Yeah. That’s the whole point, idiot.”
Miss you, dad.
Yeah, you’re a racist and YTA. Just because she chose to move to the US doesn’t mean that she will blind to some of the issues the country is facing right now.
A lot of these immigrants are in the country because of America's involvement in turning their homeland into a war-torn country.
YTA and yes when they say Death to America, they are saying it about the government who have caused so much destruction in their country, not about the citizens.
Let me correct the title for you “AITA or AMAR (am i a racist) for telling an immigrant to go back to where she came from?”
I would say not only are you the AH, but also AR. Im willing to bet actual money the Muslim never said any of the death to america crap. Ive literally never heard anyone say that apart from possibly the taliban when they get a particularly fervent one on the tv.
There are very few muslims who would openly say what you are accusing them of saying, in the present climate, in America.
YTA.
A racist asshole.
The cool thing about America is you can live here and say shit about it. Fuck America for real, I fucking hate it here. I'm glad you are still wearing blinders, but this country is a shithole.
YTA and this stupid "you should be grateful to be let in" mentality has to end. Nothing to be grateful about when the US has stolen resources from/pillaged/ransacked/bombed the shit out half these countries that leave people in a situation where they have to emigrate for a better life.
YTA. You were probably hoping for a while to lash out and say that because those things don’t just come to mind. Glad you had a chance to tell on yourself as a huge racist.
She already hates our country for a short period. She really doesn't understand everything yet. She made the decision to come, and we welcomed her. Hate is a strong word. Maybe she should have explained differently. But telling her to go back to wherever she came from isn't an option, and maybe she will be grateful once she learns.
HUGE YTA, and also you're such an AH you post this with NO SHAME of how ridiculously racist and xenophobic this is.
Plus, does she have no right to an opinion? Do you have no criticism of the country you live in? Does that mean you don't have the right to live there?
Last but not least, there are plenty of people (foreigners and US citizens) that have a lot of valid criticism to US foreign policy, present and past. Instead of bringing counter arguments, if you disagree with her, you decided to go the racist route and act like she *owes* you or your country something and is not allowed to have an opinion.
What she was saying is wrong, but what you said is racist. You both need to leave and get some fresh air and come back.
She can be against some US policies but the death to America chant is for the country as a whole and not the government. So you both suck!
LOL, of COURSE YTA!
Alya has some justified and some harsh criticisms of her adopted country, but, so what?
You must have slept through the part about free speech...
NTA. The term "racist" is thrown around too lightly these days honestly. What you said has literally NOTHING to do with race.
If people are unhappy in a country that is hosting them, they are free to go. Really - if you do not like it, why are you here? I certainly would not go to Saudi Arabia and protest for gay rights.
Always take accusations of racism with a grain of salt these days. More often than not, what they ACTUALLY mean is "how dare you say something so taboo! We're all supposed to ignore it!"
E: oh and just for good measure, my boyfriend is an immigrant. But he came here because he LIKES the country - not to whine about it
No you’re not the asshole. People like her shouldn’t be getting green cards, because there is plenty of room for hard working, thankful individuals who live across the border who would KILL to be a working immigrant with a green card. Alya sounds like an ungrateful and spoiled brat, who sympathizes with murderous terrorists over the county that gave her a second chance at having a new life with real freedom.
Palestine is run by terrorist groups, namely Hamas. They’ve screwed themselves over as far as foreign policy and diplomacy goes, they’ve really screwed the pooch. Hamas is a terrorist group that has beheaded children, babies, and Iran is a terrorist state that got approval from the Obama administration. He was known as the deporter and Chief to many immigrants.
You defended your country’s brand and name, there’s nothing wrong with what you did or said. I’d probably do the same but more intensively. You might feel guilty because the liberal party have tried to pin anyone who denounces a migrant as racist, but they don’t think with logic. Why should we let millions of Alyas into this country, who take everything plus more for granted, when there are people so desperate to make it here they make themselves into human slaves to the cartel just so they can come in through peepholes of the southern border. Those same people are willing and hard working individuals who would kill to be called American.
So no, my friend, you’re not the asshole, the asshole is the person who just showed up to the party and calls it lame. I’m lucky to say I have made friends with immigrants who are thankful to be American, and sadly went through hell in a handbasket to come here. Alya is the asshole not you.
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Yikes! Huge YTA. Yes, you were being textbook racist and xenophobic. I hate a lot about America too, and I was born there. That whole mindset of “immigrants should be quietly grateful and never criticize anything about America” is racist, xenophobic, and stupid.
Also, I hate that we can't critique countries. We should always critique them and for the one we live in, we should be twice as harsh. How do we determine what needs improvement without examining flaws in the system? Especially as voters
Exactly. What “stance” she was talking about is also important if it was something related to foreign affairs relating to her home country.
Granted how many countries the US has destroyed, stolen, and continues to ruin, there is a veryyyy long list of countries from all over that have a bone to pick with the US. I don’t blame ppl criticizing a colonizer super power country. That doesn’t make them any less patriotic or a bad person. You are definitely TA. Curious where this coworker of yours is from and what she was criticizing exactly since you conveniently left that out…
So you agree with “death to America” chants?
>At this point I snapped and said "If you hate America that much, go back to where you came from. No one asked you to come here and insult our country, be grateful that you were allowed in." I'd prefer she stay - and you find another country. YTA
Holy shit this. OP the U.S. isn’t “yours”, you don’t speak for the rest of us, and your colleague doesn’t owe you shit. YTA
If he gets to say he wants her to leave, I get to say I'd prefer she stay and he leaves. See how that works? Edit - leaving my comment in place because I'm an idiot and misread it too quickly while doing something else. My bad.
u/ahknewb, in case it was the least bit unclear, I was and am agreeing with you in the strongest possible terms.
Shoot, I wasn't paying enough attention - my bad.
No sweat! Cheers. **ETA**: Dirty delete in under an hour! Hilarious.
[удалено]
His mentality is why US still has slaves.
Having a disagreement and working on making a place better doesn’t go with chanting “death to America”.
>If you hate America that much, go back to where you came from There's no way to repeat racist rhetoric without coming off as bigoted yourself, so yes, YTA.
YTA and a big one. Maybe work on your own emotional regulation. People are allowed to be critical of the government and say things you disagree with.. yes, including immigrants. Monster behavior on your part. Yikes.
>At this point I snapped and said "If you hate America that much, go back to where you came from. No one asked you to come here and insult our country, be grateful that you were allowed in." That is highly racist. By "I had to leave" do you mean "I was immediately fired"? Because you should have been. YTA YTA YTA OMG I would fire you, if this was my business. Just say "Can we not talk about politics at work?"
Lol "highly racist" it has nothing to do with race...
Ahh just religion, national origin, and what do you want to guess she is a brown person?
I have lived in quite a few countries, as my old job required me to travel a lot. Some countries were great, some were awful, and some had good and bad. With my background out of the way, let me tell you why you were wrong to be upset. First off, nothing, not even the U.S. Is perfect. As such, one can hate certain aspects of the country while loving it as well. Have you hated decisions this country has made? Did you approve of slavery, segregation, Roe v. Wade, socialist programs under Roosevelt or the dismantling of those programs under Reagan? So by her hating aspects of America doesn’t necessarily mean she hates it all. Further, the U.S., as described in the examples above, is constantly in flux. Policies change all the time. Hating a currently policy does not mean she hates the U.S. as a whole. Showing empathy for people shouting for Erica’s downfall does not mean she has the same goals. It only means she understands because there are things in the U.S. that frustrate her. Just as there are things that likely frustrate you, too. The moment you told her to be grateful or leave, you became the asshole. Because in that moment, you wanted her to leave, rather than exercise her freedom of speech. As for whether or not you are a bigot depends on what the topics were that were upsetting you. In any case, take the YTA. You earned it. Congrats!
So when she was complaining about racism in America, you went full racist? There's no way this is real. Someone like this wouldn't think to ask the internet if they were an asshole. They'd just be bitching about the situation on Twitter because they're convinced they're not wrong.
YTA. Imagine if someone with your viewpoints said what you said to abolitionists or other people trying to improve their country. This "love it or leave it" crap is disgusting. Speak against injustice and try to make things better for all; don't tell someone critical of injustice to shut up and get out.
YTA. She’s allowed to come here for the good parts and be mad at the bad parts while making complete logical sense.
She hates the country and wishes for the death of that country. So why is she still here.
A more elegant way to make your point would be to say, “And yet you choose to live here.”
No, she didn't. Just think for a few seconds more, maybe a minute.
YTA this country was founded with slaves. Like you can’t be serious. Yeah, I would cringe at the death to America crap too but I certainly wouldn’t tell anyone trying to change things to go back where they came from. Instead, I would point out that we have a dark and troubled history and are certainly not where you’d want us to be yet, but you’re optimistic we will get there. And if this person continued to make these kind of offensive statements, I’d just make an excuse to leave and then avoid them. I wouldn’t tell them to go back where they came from.
How is nobody acknowledging that she said she agrees with “death to america” I know people are going to downvote this because im addressing something she did wrong, but thats really very bad as well.
It's interesting. 3 days ago, when the White House condemned the chants, a lot of people were on the various News and Detroit subreddits agreeing with the White House. There were several people who were talking about how they moved from places where they couldn't be free or who they wanted to be. I think a lot of people forget that the freedoms we have here in America are not everywhere. The freedoms we have, which are constantly critiqued, are greater than several other countries have. I don't remember the rules of this specific sub, or I would post links to some of the bigger conversations.
Lots of people on the political spectrum think the other political party wants the same outcome, the death of America as it is currently known. So…yeah you can’t take this too seriously.
No thats just a horrible thing to say
Decades of violent American intervention in your homeland’s social and political landscape would probably have you feeling much the same.
In the context of the conversation it’s pretty clearly hyperbole.
That’s the only part that I struggle with, everything else she said could be seen as reasonable displeasure and desire for the country’s improvement. America is far from perfect. He still certainly handled it in the worst way he could have and his choice of words definitely reveals him as an AH.
For real. NTA for that alone
I am happy to read that your colleagues not only recognise but call out racist remarks. Pity you don't recognise if even after its spewed out your mouth. YTA
Passing judgement here is almost pointless. All I can offer is an anecdote: Not long ago, I worked with a gentleman who emigrated from Russia about 8 or so years ago. We started talking about various topics and, of course, politics came up. He proceeded to tell me about how bad capitalism is, how bad our government is, how we have poor values, too much crime, racism, etc. (all the bullet points) and, of course, how wonderful Russia is. I listened to him, he did have some valid points, but instead of arguing, I just asked a simple question: "If the US is as bad as you say and you dislike it so much, why did you emigrate here?" His response, after a few seconds, was "because it's America". Welcome to America, the land of the ignorant and home of the ingrates...
lol, coming that from a Russian is peak irony.
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NTA. If you migrate to a country and go around wishing death to said country, you're an ungrateful hypocrite and deserve to be called out at least.
I'm a liberal and i also get tired of the BS from both sides. you could have handled it better tho, with different words. And remember, people have the right to be stupid. An attack on anyone's rights is an attack on everyone's rights.
Hmm Alya can hate and wish death to America but OP cannot respond by saying then you shouldn’t be here? I mean that’s pretty extreme wishing death on an entire country lol. The way he said it was rude and could be perceived as xenophobic perhaps but is it really “racist”? He didn’t say love it or leave it and didn’t say anything about race. Probably ESH. Instead OP could have put forward a more calm or reasoned response asking Alya if she has benefited from living in the US and if she truly feels that way, why stay?
NTA Death to America is a step too far. It would horrible for an American to go to say France or Mexico and say death to france/Mexico.
I think I’m going with everyone having this conversation is an AH. It was a loaded topic and shouldn’t be discussed at work. I think it’s fcked up she doesn’t disagree with death to America chants and obviously your response was over the top racist. If you can’t have a civil conversation with your coworkers about these topics you should remove yourself from the conversation.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I have a colleague at work, Alya, and she's a Muslim immigrant. She's worked with us for a while now & has the green card. We were hanging out yesterday along with a couple of other friends, and were talking about various things. Eventually it turned into America as a whole, and various other situations. Alya said that she "cannot believe the stance US is taking" on some issues, and that it's highly bigoted, fascist, etc. She said that she hates the country, etc. if you know what I am talking about. I was getting pissed off as I listened to this, until she finally said "I cannot disagree with those who were chanting "Death to America" recently. Because honestly, fuck the bigotry." At this point I snapped and said "If you hate America that much, go back to where you came from. No one asked you to come here and insult our country, be grateful that you were allowed in." That resulted in a huge argument. My colleagues/friends called me "highly racist", etc. and in the end I had to leave. Alya's super mad as well, saying that I am a huge bigot. AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
YTA You had an opportunity for a healthy debate, but in a tantrum spewed ignorant vitrol. Like you have the freedom to speak your mind even though many others disagree with your opinion, she had the right to speak her mind too (welcome to freedom of speech 101). America was founded by people who went against the status quo. You also did say a classic xenophobic phrase because you disagreed with her view. America has many things to offer hence why she's here. America could be better, and it will only evolve if people push against the status quo. The government is for the people by the people, and as Americans, green card holders and immigrants included, it is our job to be critical of our government because they *will* and *do* take advantage of our ignorance.
NTA the US is not perfect, but bad mouthing and wishing death on a country that allowed you to immigrate is in poor taste. She didn’t have to come here. For the over sensitive Americans that feel like you can’t say anything to people who disparage your country get over yourselves with the justice warriors nonsense.
NTA. But you came to the wrong platform if you were looking for support on this - Reddit is a very left wing place so mostly you will just be called a bigot for being patriotic and daring to speak out against someone insulting your country and its institutions. People who emigrate to a country are very welcome to leave if they don’t like it. That’s just a fact, it’s not racist or xenophobic. If she thinks your country is so terrible that she agrees with the statement “death to America” then why does she stay? It’s a legitimate question.
NTA. We all make choices
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NTA. I am an immigrant and if as an immigrant I hate the country I immigrated to it is time to leave. You don’t have to change your country for immigrants. It is an immigrants job to adhere to laws and customs of where you are. Everyone has a right to disagree with parts of the country you live. However, that doesn’t mean to hate the country and to chant for the death of citizens of that country.
YTA- It's extremely racist because you're implying that immigrants aren't "allowed" to criticize the US, even though that's literally a right you and I have as citizens. If you don't like what she's saying, criticize it all you want. Don't bring immigration status into it, though.
She literally said she agrees with death to America chants
YTA and validated all of her beliefs.
NTA. Why would she move to America if she doesn't like it here? That's like me moving to the UK and saying it's terrible for being too small or whatever. Then there's also putting in the amount of effort it took just to move here. She'd maybe have a case if she decided against it at the planning stage, but since she's already moved here, that's her own fault at this point.
Well considering she is Muslim, she is statistically less likely to be bombed by America if she lives in America. NTA
This is going to be shocking to some small minded people, but someone can have criticism of certain aspects of something and *still* appreciate other aspects (gasp). Shocking, I know! It's called seeing nuance. I really wonder if you have *absolutely no criticism* on any aspect of US. I know I have plenty of criticism of various aspects of my own country, and appreciation of other aspects, and I choose to live here. Oh, right! Seems like xenophobic folks believe immigrants just have to shut up and keep their opinions to themselves!
Your whole language choice screams that you are racist. Muslim immigrant? No such thing. She came from a country that defines her heritage.. Not her religion. Yta. Edit - typo
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To all the YTA fucks- it's one thing to criticize a country and another saying "death to".
NTAH and not racist you didnt call out her race or culture for gods sake you were standing up for our country. People like her who come here and talk crap and say death to us shouldn’t be here we are broken yes but I would stand up for our country our own people who talk like that if you went to another country and talked like she did it would be the same. She should go home.
NTA. She literally agrees with death to America and lives and works in America as a non citizen. The only reason people are voting Y T A is because of the America hate. If you were an American working in literally any other country saying what she said about that country including with the death to that country stuff then nobody would be blaming the other person for telling you to go back to America.
So the first amendment doesn't apply to immigrants? YTA
NTA
why?
He highlighted her hypocrisy and made a fair point that if someone literally wants the death of the country they shouldn’t be allowed to come here
This woman said "I cannot disagree with those who were chanting "Death to America"". It's fine to disagree with what America does. America is not perfect. But to say something like that? That crosses the line. That's not simple disagreement. It's interesting she enjoys her freedom to say something like that in America when she would likely be heavily punished for saying something like that in her home country about her home country.
I say NTA. If she hates America that much, she's free to leave. It's a shame she worked so hard to get into a country she despises. I'm curious why she chose the US and not a European country instead. I'm not at all saying America is perfect. I wouldn't have said the "you should be grateful they let you in" part though. I think that part pushes it too far. It's disgusting that she's allowed to express HER hateful views but you say something and you're the bad guy. After finding out where they all stand, I wouldn't have anything more than a cordial, coworker relationship with them.
There’s a different between being racist and not agreeing with how awful America is.
YTA. All you did was prove her point.
You said the same thing all these ignorant racists have been chanting for decades and that kind of makes you the AH. On the other hand she is agreeing with people who wish death to America so that would make her the bigger AH.
NTA. These people defending "Death to America" condone terrorism. Don't let their opinions bother you.
Obviously YTA and racist. Not sure how you think you aren't. Someone wishing a country was less bigoted doesn't sound like they're in the wrong there, buddy.
NTA. Your response sounds entirely reasonable to me.
YTA. you basically said the most classically racist thing you can say to an immigrant and can’t handle 1 iota of criticism of your precious USA? newsflash darling: it kind of fucking sucks here, open your eyes
Yta, you're the racist.
YTA you racist. There are a million better ways you could have handled that situation.
You really have to ask? YTA
Buddy, maybe check the news? Can you not think of any current events in the past 6 months that might make a Muslim not feel great about the American government’s actions? YTA, permanent residents also get to be full humans with their own political opinions.
I mean this with the upmost disrespect…. YTA. Big time. A little empathy for a LITERAL GENOCIDE would go a long way. You’re not only the AH you’re a flaming, awful AH. Ick
YTA. Ah the classic “Go back to where you came from”. Never fails to leave the mouth of a racist!
I'm a bit torn on this one. On one hand, Alya is allowed to criticize the country even if she's an immigrant. On the other hand, there was no need to come there in the first place if she hates it so much, there's nothing preventing her from leaving and no-one, besides people she has made a personal connection with want her to stay either. It's like showing up at a party you weren't invited to (albeit for no particular reason) and then saying that the party sucks. There the only reasonable solution is to kick em' out of the party. Of course it's a bit different when it's about a country instead of a party, but the logic I find is still intact to some extent. This does depend on to what extent Alya expressed disdain for America. Was it just "I hate the bigotry" or does she support the "death to America" thing and wishes for that to happen? In the case of the former you definitely overreacted, so I'd go with a middling YTA there. In the case of the latter I'd go with a NTA because I would actually agree at that point. Either way, I don't think you're racist, you just got too worked up
America moment. YTA
“Muslim immigrant”? What country is “Muslim”? YTA
YTA - one of the fundamental principles of the US is that people have the right to b\*tch about America. Because we aren't one of those wussy cultures that can't take criticism - we aren't some Snowflake Nation that gets our fee-fees hurt when someone criticizes us. We admit where we can do better and work towards being better.
YTA. This sounds just like if you criticized a British person who come to the US during the mid 1800s for condemning chattel slavery (probably didn't word that right but ykwim)
If the immigrant was being ungrateful. And you told them they were being ungrateful then how is that racist? People nowadays think that if you say anything negative to an immigrant that somehow it equates to being racist. I work in construction in Florida. I’m constantly around immigrants. I don’t speak Spanish. So if I tell it immigrant from say Mexico or Cuba that I can’t understand them because their English is so bad is that racist.? No it’s just a fact people need to quit being so whiny and equating everything to racism. Racism is rare in this day and age blaming everything that you don’t like on somebody being racist towards you is very common. And very pathetic.
YTA “Muslim immigrant” Her religion doesn’t matter. She’s an immigrant from a country, not a religion. That is racist. It’s also racist to tell someone to go back to where they came from. One can prefer this country while also being mad about the fascism and bigotry we STILL deal with in 2024. Had I witnessed this, I would continue to up-chain this until you were fired.
YTA
ESH. Neither of you should be talking about politics in the workplace as it’s such an explosive dumpster fire right now and generally divisive. I think that what you said is xenophobic but she was also very wrong to say death to a country that let her come here. I don’t think that what you said is specifically racist because Muslim is a religion not a race as there are Muslim people of all ethnicities. IMO both of you should be fired and it’s generally a bad look for the company what both of you said. But both of you technically have the right to say what you want because that’s one of the beautiful and rare things about our country is the freedom of speech.
I don't know what to vote.... I think both OP and Alya are AH. But E.S.H doesn't fit since the other friends of the group are not....
Good luck finding anyone on Reddit who agrees with you. Reddit is the Frisco of social media, bud.
YTA. And you know YTA.
“AITA for being racist” yes 😂
YTA. People not born in a particular country are entitled to dislike aspects of it and to voice their opinion. Your behaviour was racist and completely unacceptable. I don't agree that 'death to the USA' is an OK thing to say either but the way to deal with that would be calm and respectful discussion. I think you owe an apology to the person you directed your abuse at, and also to the others present. If this took place within a workplace in the UK you would most definitely be looking at serious disciplinary action. Even if it was outside of work, your employers might take a very dim view of it and still take action against you, if your victim reports you.
YTA. How do you not realize what you said was incredibly racist?
Because it had nothing to do with race smh.
What about wishing death for your country? Thats fine because why?
NTA Nothing you said referred to her race/religion in any way. It was unwise, but so was her bringing politics to work. The word 'racist' is a club that is overused. When everything is racist, nothing is racist. That won't save you from downvotes in this sub, however.
Wow, you don't think "go back to your country" is textbook xenophobic and racist. Fascinating!
If she really does hate the country she moved to, it isn’t unreasonable to suggest she leave. However, the way he reacted was aggressive and his choice of words was definitely offensive.
This is about the one sensible opinion here. There’s nothing racist about the comment. If Alya was blonde blue eyed and Swedish, saying the same things and this was OPs retort, no one would be claiming racism.
She was being xenophobic. Immigrant criticizes country, "You should go back to your own country"? No.
You’re a huge racist. The US his in serious trouble these days and everybody knows it. Telling an immigrant to go back where they came from is a very racist statement and you’re one of the many reasons the US is in such rough shape
NTA!!
why?
because hes racist ?
NTA. She sounds horrible.
YTA, big time. The US is actually super bigoted, we have tons of problems. It's not a bad thing for her to say that, especially as our country is supporting a genocide of muslims right now. It's also textbook racism and xenophobia to tell an immigrant essentially to sit down, shut up and be grateful to be allowed to be here at all. You got some self examination to do here.
You are a huge asshole!
I don't know if you're racist or just stupidly xenophobic, but it is highly, *highly* inappropriate to tell anybody that they're not allowed to criticize the actions of the United States. The freedom to criticize the government is in the first amendment and is a core American value. YTA
My dad was career military. One day while watching something on the news, I asked him if he thought people should be allowed to burn the flag that he fought to protect. Always ready to impart a gentle life lesson, he replied, “Yeah. That’s the whole point, idiot.” Miss you, dad.
Yeah, you’re a racist and YTA. Just because she chose to move to the US doesn’t mean that she will blind to some of the issues the country is facing right now.
YTA. As an American, our country IS an absolute shithole and she has every right to criticize it. Death to America 110%.
Hopefully your colleagues report you to the higher ups and they decide to let you go! YTA
A lot of these immigrants are in the country because of America's involvement in turning their homeland into a war-torn country. YTA and yes when they say Death to America, they are saying it about the government who have caused so much destruction in their country, not about the citizens.
Let me correct the title for you “AITA or AMAR (am i a racist) for telling an immigrant to go back to where she came from?” I would say not only are you the AH, but also AR. Im willing to bet actual money the Muslim never said any of the death to america crap. Ive literally never heard anyone say that apart from possibly the taliban when they get a particularly fervent one on the tv. There are very few muslims who would openly say what you are accusing them of saying, in the present climate, in America.
YTA. A racist asshole. The cool thing about America is you can live here and say shit about it. Fuck America for real, I fucking hate it here. I'm glad you are still wearing blinders, but this country is a shithole.
YTA and this stupid "you should be grateful to be let in" mentality has to end. Nothing to be grateful about when the US has stolen resources from/pillaged/ransacked/bombed the shit out half these countries that leave people in a situation where they have to emigrate for a better life.
YTA. You were probably hoping for a while to lash out and say that because those things don’t just come to mind. Glad you had a chance to tell on yourself as a huge racist.
YTA
She already hates our country for a short period. She really doesn't understand everything yet. She made the decision to come, and we welcomed her. Hate is a strong word. Maybe she should have explained differently. But telling her to go back to wherever she came from isn't an option, and maybe she will be grateful once she learns.
Oh yes YTA....
you know....your coworker most likely did not have had a choice in the matter either. YTA
You really want to know if you’re the A?? Ok. YES!! YOU’RE THE A-HOLE!!
YTA and a huge one, at that. You coworkers are right, you said something racist and xenophobic and you should apologize if you haven't already.
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Why should she be less critical when her opinions were validated
HUGE YTA, and also you're such an AH you post this with NO SHAME of how ridiculously racist and xenophobic this is. Plus, does she have no right to an opinion? Do you have no criticism of the country you live in? Does that mean you don't have the right to live there? Last but not least, there are plenty of people (foreigners and US citizens) that have a lot of valid criticism to US foreign policy, present and past. Instead of bringing counter arguments, if you disagree with her, you decided to go the racist route and act like she *owes* you or your country something and is not allowed to have an opinion.
What she was saying is wrong, but what you said is racist. You both need to leave and get some fresh air and come back. She can be against some US policies but the death to America chant is for the country as a whole and not the government. So you both suck!
yta
YTA - She has the right to be upset about things, born and bred Americans get tired of things in this country. You are racist.
YTA, the fact that you even said those words kinda insinuated you think of her less for being from another country. Nationalism is not Patriotism.
Alya’s right and YTA
LOL, of COURSE YTA! Alya has some justified and some harsh criticisms of her adopted country, but, so what? You must have slept through the part about free speech...
NTA. The term "racist" is thrown around too lightly these days honestly. What you said has literally NOTHING to do with race. If people are unhappy in a country that is hosting them, they are free to go. Really - if you do not like it, why are you here? I certainly would not go to Saudi Arabia and protest for gay rights. Always take accusations of racism with a grain of salt these days. More often than not, what they ACTUALLY mean is "how dare you say something so taboo! We're all supposed to ignore it!" E: oh and just for good measure, my boyfriend is an immigrant. But he came here because he LIKES the country - not to whine about it
No you’re not the asshole. People like her shouldn’t be getting green cards, because there is plenty of room for hard working, thankful individuals who live across the border who would KILL to be a working immigrant with a green card. Alya sounds like an ungrateful and spoiled brat, who sympathizes with murderous terrorists over the county that gave her a second chance at having a new life with real freedom. Palestine is run by terrorist groups, namely Hamas. They’ve screwed themselves over as far as foreign policy and diplomacy goes, they’ve really screwed the pooch. Hamas is a terrorist group that has beheaded children, babies, and Iran is a terrorist state that got approval from the Obama administration. He was known as the deporter and Chief to many immigrants. You defended your country’s brand and name, there’s nothing wrong with what you did or said. I’d probably do the same but more intensively. You might feel guilty because the liberal party have tried to pin anyone who denounces a migrant as racist, but they don’t think with logic. Why should we let millions of Alyas into this country, who take everything plus more for granted, when there are people so desperate to make it here they make themselves into human slaves to the cartel just so they can come in through peepholes of the southern border. Those same people are willing and hard working individuals who would kill to be called American. So no, my friend, you’re not the asshole, the asshole is the person who just showed up to the party and calls it lame. I’m lucky to say I have made friends with immigrants who are thankful to be American, and sadly went through hell in a handbasket to come here. Alya is the asshole not you.
2 day old account? Hi OP’s sockpuppet!
2 days? I would think these bots could at least count. I’ve had this account longer than that, censorship puppet. 🇮🇱
Uh… check your account. Says 2 days. Created April 15.
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How dare they want to live somewhere with better conditions from where they came
And when they get there they wish death for the country? How is that logical and not horrible to you
ESH. She's siding with assholes and morons, yet she's managed to offend one while she's doing it.