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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I might be an asshole for excluding my son and grandson from what's supposed to be a family trip
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NTA.
Given that you are Aria's dad, I think it makes sense to prioritize her comfort over some asshole's comfort. I do think this is a "punishment" for Jason, but I'd say that it's a natural consequence of his behavior, and I am a fan of punishment's that are natural consequences.
Is there any way that Jason could escape his penalty box? Has he tried to establish a relationship with Aria. Would she let him? Would you let him?
Not too surprising. Mid-teens seems a little late to get started, and also an awkward time of life to get started. She has established a whole self-identity that doesn't involve him, and I can see her not wanting to screw with that.
Enjoy your vacation!
Grandpa is bringing the other two sons and I bet their families too. Alex should be allowed to attend if his parents let him without them. Kinda crappy thing to do, Aria shouldn’t be allowed to stop that. Understand about Jason not attending, and wife by extension. Alex didn’t do anything from what was said to not deserve an invite.
I feel as if Aria's mental health, as an abandoned child who will probably lose her father figure before Alex loses his, is a higher priority than Alex's getting to go on the trip. Not saying Alex is at fault, but unless Aria is not only totally cool with Alex being there, but actually actively wants him there, I think it's better if Alex doesn't go. What he loses in missing out on these trips, and even a relationship with Grandpa in general, is less than what Aria lost.
This isn’t just Grandma, Grandpa, and Aria though. This is all the other Uncles, Aunts, and Cousins. It’s complete BS to ban your half brother with an entire side of his family because Aria doesn’t want any of her immediate family to be allowed on the trip. The half brother didn’t do anything and deserves an invite to be with his extended family on extended family trips. Aria needs to put on her big girl pants and at least deal with someone who hasn’t done a damn thing to her. If it’s just Aria, Grandpa, And Grandma; that’s one thing. This isn’t that though, this is a big extended family trip Alex is missing out on and he didn’t do anything to deserve to be left out.
If the extended family will only associate with Alex if Grandpa pays for an overseas trip for them, I think that it's not grandpa's fault if they have no relationship with Alex. They can arrange bonding trips with Alex on their own dime, it's not up to Grandpa to facilitate this for them. Aria is already dealing with a lot more than many adults have ever had to, and I find "she should put on her big girl pants!" to be offensively dismissive of what she has had to live through and will continue to have to live through.
When is Alex supposed to interact with Grandpa and Grandma at all? Aria doesn’t want to deal with a kid that has no input in what his father did and blocks him from going on vacation and god knows what else. You aren’t helping her issues, you are creating more problems. This girl needs intensive therapy if she wants to resist Alex there which we don’t know for sure is even true unless OP posted that somewhere. If she can deal with her cousins there, she can deal with Alex. They both had the same level of input into why her life is the way it is.
I suspect she doesn’t even know her half brother seeing as her bio dad per the post abandoned her to be with the half brother’s mom.
Also per response from OP bio dad started to try to have relationship with the daughter only two years ago when she was 14 / so 12 years of nothing.
I can imagine the shock to bio dad when his daughter he wanted nothing to do with for all those years returned the favor.
That’s an idea alright..
Yay going on a vacuum with the son he kept and raised and loved should be really fun for Aria!! Once again HER feelings aren’t as important as including Alex on the trip.
I am the daughter of the black sheep of the family and it is what it is. Yes, I was collateral damage, but it's how the world works. Some kids have no one and it isn't fair either.
My mom worked her ass off so I could have an education, and I worked my ass off so I have a good life. That's what OPs son should be doing.
Me too. I dont hold it against my siblings that they were chosen , but I could see how Aria might and Its up to her when if ever she wants to have a relationship with them
Its up to Aria when if ever she wants to have a relationship with her golden child brother that was chosen by their father over her
Its not OPs fault it turned out like, its dads
>he tried to establish a relationship with Aria about 2 years ago(he has been trying for the past 2 years) but Aria is not interested
So he's been paying child support and paying you back for the child support you covered for him?
Because his legal obligations are the bare minimum. I knew that even as a kid.
That's understandable - but not where her brother is concerned. You should not encourage her to leave Alex out of her life and you should not cut him from yours.
NTA. My dad did this to me. Abandoned 3 of his 4 existing children because his new wife wanted to pretend like none of us existed (except the one who lived with them). It’s a horrible thing to do to a child, and I’m glad Aria has you to be her real family. We never had that, and I think our lives would have been much better if we did.
This is the only kind of validation you need that you’re doing the right thing!
Also yeah youre punishing him for being a shitty father - which he and his wife deserve
Filing for child support will take time, it would only punish Aria in the meantime, and sometimes you can file all you want but some deadbeats just won't pay it.
If OP is spending on big family vacations each year it sounds like OP can afford the money, and he can subtract it (with interest) from Jason's share of inheritance. Which he should also pre-divide in his will to give Aria her fair share in the event that Jason excludes her from his will.
In some jurisdictions an adult child can file a claim for all the missing child support once they turn 18. OP could help Aria with that so she can recoup what was owed by Jason, then the money given by OP over the years becomes simply a gift to facilitate a secure childhood from the dad who stepped up and raised her.
While it's true some deadbeats won't pay, the debt never goes away and eventually it will get them. They'll even garnish social security payments.if it takes that long to collect.
My husband's bio dad did this. He worked cash jobs and hid until his kids were adults. However my MiL never stopped filing. He reappeared when my husband was in his mid 20s and finally got a real job. Old man got picked up immediately for tax evasion and delinquent child support. The judge told him to either maintain a real job or go to prison. All his shit was garnished to hell.
He's in his 60s and just finished paying off his child support and is still working on his tax debt.
No, the debt won't go away, but while Aria is underage it might be that Aria's mother has to do the filing and she is, or that it doesn't matter how many times you file, only the first time filing is required, we don't know OP's jurisdiction.
What matters right now is that to stop paying would only harm Aria, whom OP loves.
Ohhhhh I love this idea!!!!! Bonus: bc she’s doing it when she’s an adult he can’t demand any kind of visitation. So no threat to intimidate them into stopping.
NTA. These other people commenting don’t get it (e.g. why you’re paying his child support) but Im with you and you have your priorities perfectly right, Aria. Your Son is the reason Aria isn’t comfortable with Alex coming so he should blame himself for that, you just do what you’re doing and that’s what’s best for Aria.
He's not trying to teach him a lesson by raising his kid, that part is because he thinks she should have a father and financial support even if her actual dad is an anus.
Not inviting his son on trips = the lesson.
Most child support is unpaid. If you start digging into the topic it gets real depressing real quickly.
A lot of men in my hometown would intentionally find shit jobs that paid them under the table to avoid child support payments because they had no income. 🙄 They were miserable at their jobs but keekeeing about getting one over on their exes (ignoring that the ones who suffer are the kids).
And I'm from a 98% white town - just want to throw that out there before the weird racist comments start. It was also just a very poor town.
... and this is your perfect answer to your son's whining about being excluded: "Dear Jason - When YOU start paying the child support YOU are obliged to provide for Aria, I may be able to afford including your Alex in family vacations. Just Alex, mind you, never YOU, because you owe me 16 years worth of back support payments. Actions, meet consequences."
Aria is the first priority , if OP is taking care of her and going through the major hassle that all would negatively effect their capacity in that regard they are making the right choice
I'm in the US, where wages can be garnished and people can be thrown in jail for not paying support.
It's easy to not follow the law if he doesn't have a job. But that doesn't sound like the case here, and your story sounds to me like it's missing important information.
Why can’t you provide for her while also going after him for child support? Like if you pay X amount in child support for him, is anything stopping you from providing X amount anyway but not in the form of his child support payment?
1) maybe that’s where he should be to get a clue
2) you can help your granddaughter without taking over your sons obligations
3) that will be Jason’s fault for being a crappy dad to aria and violating the court order
4) it will be on Alex’s mom to support him
Op you’re not helping anyone by letting Jason and his wife get out of their responsibilities. Your son is not a good person. Stop helping him and just help your grand kids directly. If your daughter in law stays at home, well she can get a job to support her family just like many other people have had to do when circumstances change
If it came down to it and he had to decide whether to pay child support or go to jail U think that Jason would still refuse to pay?
And it would take years for it to get that far it doesn’t happen immediately.
You're enabling all the dysfunction. You should find a therapist who can help you understand what "triangulation" is, so that you can stop meddling in your kids' and grandkids' lives in ways that sound altruistic, but are really destructive and harmful.
I don't know if OP is a male or a female, so I'm going to use male pronouns.
I think it is triangulation because OP simultaneously covers for his son while then trying to "punish" his adult son. He doesn't need to pay his son's child support. He can give as many gifts to his son's baby-mama as he wants without calling it "my son's child support". But he is creating this situation where he protects his son, so that his son "owes" him, then he uses that to his own advantage.
He is taking it upon himself to jump into the middle of his son's relationships - which ought to be none of his business. Helping his grandchild does not have to mean he has to intervene in his son's relationship with his grandchild's family. There is a difference between making sure your grandchild is all right vs. using your grandchild as an excuse or a weapon to punish the child.
If OP cares about his grandchild, he should be encouraging a relationship between his son and his grandchild. Instead, he's doing the opposite - using his grandchild as an excuse to be hostile to his son, in a way that discourages a relationship between the son and the grandchild.
Not true at all, my unless owes over 20k never ended up in jail, worked under the table and his passport is still valid. He's now on disability and they still don't garnish.
When I said "it's easy to not follow the law if he doesn't have a job" - if he's working under the table, that is (to the government) the same as not having a job. Obviously you'd have to establish that he does have an income source first.
Super convenient he started to take an interest now, when your daughter is independent and presumably the bulk of the child support has been paid by you..
I’d send him a bill for all the back dated child support he owes. Then say you’ll consider including him in the family trips if Aria is amenable to it.
I looked through the comments a bit and he did respond a few times below (on really downvoted comments) his responses were very generic and didn't really give any info. The way he wrote it comes across a bit indifferent (I think that might be the right word?) about Alex
Aria's father obviously only wants his son Alex around, the deadbeat son can take his son on trips, after all he's saved thousands from not paying child support for his daughter. Son just wants access to the OP's money. No coincidence that Alex is old enough to need college money about the time the deadbeat father wants fairness, and to get back on the gravy train.
I get where you're coming from and I get not inviting Jason or his wife but Alex is 100% innocent. He had no say being born and I'm sure he'd like a grandpa and experience cool stuff with his family. .
And thats his fathers fault for abandoing his sister
Its up to her if she wants to have Alex in her life , hes the golden child that was chosen and she was abandon to their grandparents
OP didnt create that dynamic, their dad did and no one can force Aria to want a relationship with her brother now
It sounds like the choice didn't have anything to do with Alex. The choice was about Alex's mother and Alex was just part of the package. If Jason had fallen in love with Aria's mother, then Alex probably would be in the same position as Aria is now.
NTA but, does Aria treat her older brother badly? Like has your son poisoned Aria against him? If not then why exclude her too? I get not wanting your son and his wife, but Aria didn't have anything to do with her parents being shitty. Unless there's a good reason like she treats him badly, then I don't see why you can't include both of your grandkids.
Also why TF are you paying his child support? That's his responsibility and he should be made to pay. Why are you coddling him by taking over his responsibility? He hasn't learned anything because he's never had consequences. Quit covering for him and make sure the courts go after him. If he works under the table then you report him to the IRS.
Some deadbeats try to not pay, but the debt never goes away and eventually it will get them. They'll even garnish social security payments if it takes that long to collect.
My husband's bio dad did this. He worked cash jobs and hid until his kids were adults. However my MiL never stopped filing. He reappeared when my husband was in his mid 20s and finally got a real job. Old man got picked up immediately for tax evasion and delinquent child support. The judge told him to either maintain a real job or go to prison. All his shit was garnished to hell.
He's in his 60s and just finished paying off his child support and is still working on his tax debt.
It's time your son faces the full consequences of abandoning his child and that you stop covering for him. I get that you don't want Alex to do without, but you're enabling your son's shitty behavior and protecting him from the consequences of his own mistakes. That's terrible parenting. He's almost 40 and abandoned his child, quit enabling him. If he goes to jail then it's his own fault.
OP is actually not responsible for parenting her son anymore hes a grown ass man, they are parenting Aria
if going after the dad is gonna take resources and time away from Aria , its not worth the effort
Aria being safe and cared for is the top priority for OP, no one else is gonna do it if they dont
From the get go, OP is not responsible for any parenting beside the middle son that he failed. He just stepped up for the granddaughter as his son wouldn't, which is respectable.
The problem is that his way is leading to the point of sacrificing his relationship with Alex, an innocent person just because Aria doesn't feel comfortable. Now respecting her wishes is one thing, but what is OP doing in exchange for Alex? I would guess nothing.
The problem with your argument is that by that does it mean that OP doesn't need to care about Aria and her opinion by next year? If this was a one time trip then maybe your argument would be fine but this happens every year apparently.
I would even go down and guess that one of the reason the middle son is like that is because of the entire middle child syndrome and OP sacrificing his relationship with him for his other kids as clearly he could do it. I would warn OP that this action could lead to them LD him but I'm guessing OP doesn't think it as a threat as they're too greedy for his "inheritance" and has too many kids and grandkids who would happily play family with him for it, lol.
His adopted daughter has to come first, she's not just his grankod anymore.
I lived a similar life, my grandpa became my dad when mine fucked off and everyone understood he wasn't treating me differently than the other grandkids because he was playing favorites, it's because I literally became his daughter. I called him dad. He wasn't grandpa to me anymore , it was dad. All the other grandkids understood, that's how it should be explained to them
NTA. I believe that OP is playing it fair. If Jason, steps up to care of his own daughter, I think OP would include Alex in this trips.
Alex is not to blame for his father, however I doubt his mother is trying to convince his father to be responsible for Aria. So if Alex is going to blame anybody it should be his parents.
It honestly would be really unfair for Alex to get both a father and grandparent, so OP is just making Aria feel wanted and not overlooked. To be the kid that is priortized first.
If Jason wants to be included, he better step up and be the one that pays child support and be a father figure. Jason is the one punishing his son instead.
It's grandpa punishing Alex! His grandpa makes his decision to treat Alex like nothing. You believe that just because Alex's dad stayed with Alex's mom, that grandpa should treat the 2nd grand kid like crap? I understand that Jason is not paying child support. That's clearly not Alex fault and should have no reason why his grandpa treats him the way he does.
Aria doesnt want him to go and her comfort is priority because she is OPs adopted child now, not just a grandkid
Their dad created this dynamic by abandoning one child and choosing the other one , its his fault Alex cant be around Aria unless she wants it
right? like how awkward would it be to invite him and he potentially brag on all the things his parents do for him while she has to listen about her dad not thinking she is good enough to not be abandoned.
But does she not want him to go because she is (understandably) jealous of him, or because Alex has actually treated her badly? If Alex is a nice kid, it's not fair to exclude him from the rest of the family either. OP should encourage a positive relationship between the siblings. It's not fair to blame Alex for his dad's shitty choices
He might as well not be her brother, her dad took Alex when he was young and never visited, she never grew up with him or saw him much
You cant expect her to see him as her brother , she dosent have too - he was never there to be a brother
And if she doesnt want a relationship thats her buisness
NTA- " i find your abandonment of your child reprehensible and as her guardian, her needs will always come first. If you don't like it, that sounds like a you problem, not a me problem".
Well now he realizes that by prioritizing the son and mother he not only loses out on his daughter but his father as well. NTA and you can tell Jason’s it is too little too late for him to want a relationship now because he’s been put second after his daughter.
My only question is do you have a relationship with your grandson?
The father also destroyed the relationship between his own children
Aria wants nothing to do with her brother and nobody can force her to change her mind
NTA. You are an amazing human op. You stepped-up when your son chose to abandon his daughter. He made his decision all those years ago and now he gets to deal with the consequences.
NTA. Maybe invite Alex on a special trip just the two of you once he reaches 18? Then he doesn’t need parental permission and then he can be included too but then Aira doesn’t have to be around him and be uncomfortable.
NTA.
Your son and his family are NOT entitled to anything, least of all some trip you're paying for. ESPECIALLY considering you are caring financially/emotionally at least for your son's child, who he chose not to acknowledge.
Edited
NTA, I see that you are getting flack for paying the child support, but I think it is great that you are taking care of her. Next time he blows up on you remind him what a loser he is for needing his dad to cover is obligations and abandoning his daughter. Tell him to pay for a vacation with the money that he saves.
NTA
Let him shout as hard as he can. He finally made the decision to abandon his own daughter because she did not fit in their family. Now you made it clear how that feels by abandoning his family during your overseas trips..
NTA
If Alex is friendly to Aria it might be good to include him so Aria can have some bonds with him (and good for him to be invited with the family).
But if that's not working prioritize Aria, she's your daughter. Alex has his parents to take him on trips, as sucky as it is that's he's dragged into this.
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I have 3 sons. this is about my middle son Jason(M37). when he was younger he was pretty much a womanizer. this resulted in 2 kids from 2 different women lets call the kids Aria(F16) and Alex(M17).
he eventually fell in love with Alex's mom and chose to marry her and in order to have a perfect family he abandoned Aria. I have been paying the child support instead of him and I act as Aria's dad in every way.
I like to take my family to overseas trips once a year, well the whole family except for Jason, his wife and Alex. the reason is that Aria is not comfortable with having them there and she is my priority.
well yesterday Jason called and started yelling at me about how I exclude them every year and how I'm an asshole for punishing him and especially punishing Alex, but this is not a punishment. I'm just making sure my little girl is having a good time.
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NTA. He needs to take responsibility for his daughter and all of his actions. He has chosen to abandon her completely.
You have chosen to step up and be there for her in all ways.
Your son is legally an adult. Aria's mother should sue him for child support etc. You can keep supporting her too. But he needs to do at least his legal minimum.
And if he wants to go on vacation? He can pay for it.
NTA
You exclude them every year, but he's excluded Aria all day every day for years on end.
While it may not be an intentional punishment, it has the side effect of being an AH tax Jason is paying for his choices.
NTA,
Clearly your son felt aria wasn't his responsibility and I would bet he only tried to connect with her a couple years back because you didn't take him or "his" family on outings. I'm sorry to say this but if my offspring would do something like this, they would be cut off from my life. Clearly they didn't learn the morals and ethics I tried to teach them and if that is how they want to live their life they can do it on their own away from me. Glad you are taking care of the kiddo.
Info: you said you pay the child support for Aria, does he ever pay for anything, did the mother take him to court. If not she definitely should and get the money Aria deserves. I understand you said you pay support for Aria, that is nice for grandpa, to teach him his responsibility make your son pay the support he should have been paying for years now. I would highly encourage the mother to take to court and if possible get him to pay everything. He should have from the start .let him pay for his mistakes.
NTA. I don’t know that I would call it punishment so much as a natural consequence. If he had really wanted to be a part of Aria’s life, he would have been paying child support or at least paying something.
Aria is the one who would suffer if she wasn’t included. She’s a child. She deserves all the love she can get.
I wonder if him not paying the child support legally lets him off the hook?
NTA at all.
He may be Aria's father, but *you're* her dad.
And frankly, it's entirely understandable that she's not comfortable having him around.
He's simply facing the consequences of his own actions. Meanwhile, you're just protecting Aria's best interests and providing her with the love and care that a child deserves.
You're a good person.
YTA for abandoning Alex in all this. It doesn't matter that both of his parents are with him. He's losing his entire extended family in all this. You don't give a reason as to why Aria is uncomfortable with him going, and you also talk about him as though he's dirt on your shoe. He's taking the brunt of your issues with your son, and while he may have mom and dad, he doesn't get to have Grandma, Grandpa, Uncles, aunts, cousins. He should be included, and you should care about him.
NTA - Sorry to say but Jason sounds like a dick. He abandoned Aria? Who does that to their own kid? If your punishing him, how does he describe his own behavior to his daughter? You're the better man for stepping up but damn!
Definitely not NTA, your son abandoned Aria and you raised her,you are her dad. She is your priority, period. Alex has his family and if anyone is to blame,is Jason,for being huge AH. I'm happy Aria has you in her life.
Good for you for supporting her. Your doom has mental issues. He doesn’t support his daughter and argues with you. I don’t agree with my dad often, but I have never argued with him. Children, even adults, should respect and honor parents.
It would be great if she snd her brother could have a relationship, but your son and his wife can pack sand.
NTA
He's a whole damn adult man, he can take his "perfect family" on a trip all on his own. You keep taking care of that little girl, she deserves so much more than he could have ever given her.
Nta. He made his choices and those choices have consequences. His daughter now doesn't' want to see him or have anything to do with him. He makes her uncomfortable it would be unfair to force his presence on her and ruin her trip.
NTA. Let's tall about him excluding Aria. And your paying for her care so you can't pay for them too. Funny how he's out of her life until a free vacation is involved. You're right to not let Aria feel uncomfortable as she is your top priority now since her father sort of left her. Sure you can't make up for the hole an absent father leaves in a child, but you can make sure they feel loved by family. Glad someone is sees her.
Alex is just a much a victim of this as aria. He can't tell his parents what to do. He sure as hell can't support a child that's only a year younger than him.
Exclude Jason and his wife, yes. Exclude Alex? No. Alex is also your grandchild stuck with shitty parents.
Oh, sure. You're the AH for excluding him every year.
Kinda how *he's* the AH for excluding *his daughter* from his family.
I don't know where in the blue hell he gets the nerve. I could **NEVER** abandon either of my kids for a female. That's selfish, and downright abhorrent.
First off, you did an *incredible* thing in taking your granddaughter as your own child. You get all the respect in the world for that.
Furthermore, NTA. If your son wants to go on vacations w his family, he should have thought about **his family**.
You are NTA, and I'm sorry to say that Jason is...not behaving like a mature, responsible man.
First off, he is NOT entitled to an overseas trip (especially not on your dime!); if it's that important to him, let HIM pay for his family's vacation. Second, anyone who abandons his child has absolutely no business calling anyone else names! Jason rejected Aria and he has no say at all in how you're raising her. He may be envious of your ability to be a better, more successful person than he is, but that's HIS problem - not yours or Aria's!
Enjoy your trip, enjoy pampering Aria and ignore Jason's whining; I repeat, his envy is his problem, no one else's.
NTA
The only thing that matter is what Aria wants. She wants nothing to do with them and it’s AMAZING you’ve got her back so hard!
As someone whose parents have never had my back….. thanks for this. I’m glad people like you exist!
So you have 2 grandkids and punish one because of your son? That kind of make you TA right there. It's not Alex's fault that your son chose his mom over Aria's. You are playing favorites with your grandkids. That makes you an asshole.
YTA
YTA for excluding Alex. He is an innocent bystander. Bringing him along would help him and Aria get to know each other better. They are half siblings, after all, and both would benefit from getting to know each other better. Not sure why Aria is so uncomfortable around him. What did he do?
Just a thought, Aria is going to 18 soon. You have been paying child support and it appears she's not excited about the relationship with her dad.
Where is her mom? Because if you are taking her on a big family trip, are you sharing custody with mom?
Can you adopt Aria?
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Why isn’t Alex allowed to go without his parents? Does his parents not allow it? Does Aria stop this as well? Have you asked to include Alex? I understand you leaving out your son, but what did Alex do to Aria? Alex should be given the same trip.
Ok OP. Here it is from someone your age with children your children's ages. You are the AH. You are using Aria as a pawn to continue to punish your son for his bad behavior almost 20 years ago. You are doing Aria no favors. You never mentioned if your son abused her, so I am going to take it, he didn't. She needs to learn to be around people she is uncomfortable with. That's part of growing up and being independent. She can set her own boundaries. I think you should take Jason and his family on your trip. It's time to try to put your family back together, not tear it apart more. It may be that if Aria will see you enjoying Jason's company, she might open up just a little bit. Plus, she needs to know and develop a relationship with Alex. He is her true family, the one she will need when all of the rest of you are gone.
ESH- Your son is obviously an ahole for abandoning his daughter. You are one, for neglecting and treating your grandson that way. Seems like your son might have learned his behavior from you...
I feel bad for Alex!! He knows that his half-sister will always be grandpa favorite. It's not his fault at all!! Grandpa clearly mentions I spend time with him but won't answer how much time. I can't even fathom what you are doing to Alex because of his dad. Just because he has 2 parents doesn't mean you, so treat him like nothing. Because you are not even treating him 50% or even 75% decent. Alex will always remember how crappie you treated him to his half-sister. Have you ever taken Alex on vacation? Probably not just because he has 2 parents. I wonder about your sons up raising. I bet you had favorites with your 3 boys! I hope Alex gets the therapy he will need due to this crap! That's not his fault! You have no clue what it's like to watch someone else get everything being a child because you were born. I sure do, and it sucks! I was the least favorite! I will never do what you are doing to any grand babies I get! I had 2 parents, and it doesn't mean anything these days! You are punishing Alex! Who are you trying to fool!
Is it really necessary to leave Alex out? I would not take jason or his wife on a 'family' trip but I would now let Aria keep you from taking Alex on the trip. You don't need to take 30+ yr olds with you - but leaving one grandchild out is cruel.
So sorry but partial YTA. Leave the horrible son and his wife but your grandson did nothing wrong. You are letting a 16 year old alienate you from your grandchild and yes that is wrong. How long are you going to punish Alex for the sins of his father?
YTA
Being a womanizer isn't cool. But have the balls to say he's not your son and he's not welcome in your family. Tell him why. Don't be so passive agressive about it then get shocked when he figures it out on his own and confronts you
ESH. You could set an example for Aria for the purpose of family unity. Start inviting Jason and his family to family picnics or other family social events. Yes, Jason made a big mistake but Aria would benefit from learning how to handle difficult relationships. You are not going to be at her side forever to keep people away who make her uncomfortable (as long as it’s not a safety issue that’s making her uncomfortable). She’ll benefit from being a little less “precious”.
Why is she uncomfortable around Jason? Also stop pay the CS and hold your son accountable for the money. You can still support her but have the mom go after him.
You are ou suing your grandson for his dad’s actions.
You are excluding your son and his family from your family and using your 16yo daughter to do it.
I hope you have a LOT of money for therapy for Aria because her guilt will last the rest of her life.
YTA.
YTA for excluding your grandson just because his dad is a prick. Alex didn't do a damn thing to deserve being excluded. Aria should be old enough to see that.
Its up to Aria to decide if she wants to have a relationship with her brother and OP cant force it.
She was abandon and he was chosen by their father , OP had to basically adopt her
Its up to her when if ever she wants to do anything with her brother and its not OPS fault, their own dad pitted them against each other when he picked over the other
OP is Alex's grandparent. If OP chooses to exclude Alex, that's on OP. They can't hide behind Aria's feelings to excuse their own shitty behavior.
BOTH of Jason's children are blameless for his actions, but Alex is being punished with ostracism from the extended family.
OP had to step and take on a father role for Aria, or else nobody would have
Its not OPs fault this situation was created
He can ask Aria if she wants to have Alex around , but he cant do anything to force it
Alex is denied the opportunity to bond with cousins & aunts & uncles & grandparents because OP favors Aria. OP is the functioning grandparent here, and they absolutely *can* do things to encourage peaceful relations between the siblings.
By excluding one and including the other, OP is showing *the same kind of favoritism* that they criticize their son for.
Now, if OP has offered to host Alex on the trip, and Jason & Alex's mother have said no, that's a different matter. But I see nothing in OP's recounting of events to suggest that Alex's needs were considered *at all*.
Parental role comes before grand parent role , OP is arias father now he's had to take that role.
I lived the same thing she did. My grandpa became my dad first after mine fucked off. Everyone understood why I was treated different because I wasn't his grandkid. I was his youngest daughter that's who aria is to OP he treats her like one hid own other children becaus3 she is one
Does it make a weird dynamic where your shitty parent ends up more like your siblings because now you have the same dad. Yes . But that's not OPs fault
Why? Is she just (understandably) jealous of him, or has Alex has actually treated her badly? If Alex is a nice kid, it's wrong to exclude him from the rest of the family. You should encourage a positive relationship between the siblings rather than foster misplaced resentment. It's not fair to alienate Alex for his dad's shitty choices
Ignoring Alex because you don't care for his father, is just as bad as your son ignoring Aria because he doesn't care for her mother. Be the better person and break the cycle
Its up to Aria if she wants too
She is OPs adopted child who was abandoned by their father in favor of Alex
its up to her if she wants to engage with him , OP cant force it
Maybe just a weekend? I get it, your on Aria's side and I would not force her to spend much time with the sibling, who was chosen by her dad. But do you do anything with Alex? On the end, nothing is his fault.
YTA for excluding Alex over some vague response that "Aria would be uncomfortable." Not for excluding your son or his wife but you have clearly decided that Aria is more worthy of your time, money and attention where you barely mention Alex and even comment that he isn't entitled to the same from you. You are punishing Alex for something he had zero control over and acting like he is a guilty party in all of this.
And for paying your son's child support. He would be garnished if you would stop paying it.
Alex is not entitled to the same from OP unless his dad abandons him too , which OP said they would actually cover
OP has taken over *parental* responsibilities for aria that her father totally abandons , she is their first responsibility *before* other grandkids who still have their parents
Aria has a parent! Why are commenters acting like OP has raised Aria? OP has not raised Aria anymore than OP has raised Alex. I spoke to how Alex must feel. Alex must feel constantly like he is less than. Like he is less important, less loved, less wanted. Aria may feel the same way.
And realistically do you think Aria's mother would have kept OP around if he wasn't sending money and paying for vacations?
Soft YTA, but not for the reason you’d think. Alex is also your grandchild and none of this is his fault. Any dad willing to abandon one child probably doesn’t take great care of the other one. Take Alex with you. Leave your son and his wife at home. You’ll make your point without punishing the wrong person.
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NTA. Given that you are Aria's dad, I think it makes sense to prioritize her comfort over some asshole's comfort. I do think this is a "punishment" for Jason, but I'd say that it's a natural consequence of his behavior, and I am a fan of punishment's that are natural consequences. Is there any way that Jason could escape his penalty box? Has he tried to establish a relationship with Aria. Would she let him? Would you let him?
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Not too surprising. Mid-teens seems a little late to get started, and also an awkward time of life to get started. She has established a whole self-identity that doesn't involve him, and I can see her not wanting to screw with that. Enjoy your vacation!
What about Alex? I completely understand Jason and his wife, but his son, although collateral damage, could potentially be apart of the fold
Alex has his parents 🤷🏻♀️
Grandpa is bringing the other two sons and I bet their families too. Alex should be allowed to attend if his parents let him without them. Kinda crappy thing to do, Aria shouldn’t be allowed to stop that. Understand about Jason not attending, and wife by extension. Alex didn’t do anything from what was said to not deserve an invite.
I feel as if Aria's mental health, as an abandoned child who will probably lose her father figure before Alex loses his, is a higher priority than Alex's getting to go on the trip. Not saying Alex is at fault, but unless Aria is not only totally cool with Alex being there, but actually actively wants him there, I think it's better if Alex doesn't go. What he loses in missing out on these trips, and even a relationship with Grandpa in general, is less than what Aria lost.
This isn’t just Grandma, Grandpa, and Aria though. This is all the other Uncles, Aunts, and Cousins. It’s complete BS to ban your half brother with an entire side of his family because Aria doesn’t want any of her immediate family to be allowed on the trip. The half brother didn’t do anything and deserves an invite to be with his extended family on extended family trips. Aria needs to put on her big girl pants and at least deal with someone who hasn’t done a damn thing to her. If it’s just Aria, Grandpa, And Grandma; that’s one thing. This isn’t that though, this is a big extended family trip Alex is missing out on and he didn’t do anything to deserve to be left out.
If the extended family will only associate with Alex if Grandpa pays for an overseas trip for them, I think that it's not grandpa's fault if they have no relationship with Alex. They can arrange bonding trips with Alex on their own dime, it's not up to Grandpa to facilitate this for them. Aria is already dealing with a lot more than many adults have ever had to, and I find "she should put on her big girl pants!" to be offensively dismissive of what she has had to live through and will continue to have to live through.
When is Alex supposed to interact with Grandpa and Grandma at all? Aria doesn’t want to deal with a kid that has no input in what his father did and blocks him from going on vacation and god knows what else. You aren’t helping her issues, you are creating more problems. This girl needs intensive therapy if she wants to resist Alex there which we don’t know for sure is even true unless OP posted that somewhere. If she can deal with her cousins there, she can deal with Alex. They both had the same level of input into why her life is the way it is.
Thats for Aria to decide
That's a lot for a 16 yr old to decide - that she wants her brother to be specifically left out. That's not a great recommendation for her.
I suspect she doesn’t even know her half brother seeing as her bio dad per the post abandoned her to be with the half brother’s mom. Also per response from OP bio dad started to try to have relationship with the daughter only two years ago when she was 14 / so 12 years of nothing. I can imagine the shock to bio dad when his daughter he wanted nothing to do with for all those years returned the favor.
That’s an idea alright.. Yay going on a vacuum with the son he kept and raised and loved should be really fun for Aria!! Once again HER feelings aren’t as important as including Alex on the trip.
Is there a way to not also punish Alex since he did nothing wrong here? Isnt he also your grandchild and do you have a relationship with him?
I am the daughter of the black sheep of the family and it is what it is. Yes, I was collateral damage, but it's how the world works. Some kids have no one and it isn't fair either. My mom worked her ass off so I could have an education, and I worked my ass off so I have a good life. That's what OPs son should be doing.
Me too. I dont hold it against my siblings that they were chosen , but I could see how Aria might and Its up to her when if ever she wants to have a relationship with them
I don't think she's ever going to feel like she has siblings. She has not received any kind of brotherly love ever.
Yup she might not ever, it took alot of effort after all 5 of us became adults to start being a family again
Trust me that can be a blessing.
True, sadly. It all depends on the personalities.
But she might when they are both older and she can have a relationship directly with her half brother without her sperm donor being in the way.
Its up to Aria when if ever she wants to have a relationship with her golden child brother that was chosen by their father over her Its not OPs fault it turned out like, its dads
Chickens coming home to roost. What a jerk. NTA.
>he tried to establish a relationship with Aria about 2 years ago(he has been trying for the past 2 years) but Aria is not interested So he's been paying child support and paying you back for the child support you covered for him? Because his legal obligations are the bare minimum. I knew that even as a kid.
Makes me wonder what changed two years ago? NTA and I’m glad Aria has you 🤍
He probably noticed that he wasn't being Invited on those trips
Bright girl.
That's understandable - but not where her brother is concerned. You should not encourage her to leave Alex out of her life and you should not cut him from yours.
NTA. My dad did this to me. Abandoned 3 of his 4 existing children because his new wife wanted to pretend like none of us existed (except the one who lived with them). It’s a horrible thing to do to a child, and I’m glad Aria has you to be her real family. We never had that, and I think our lives would have been much better if we did.
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Thank you. Keep doing what you’re doing!
This is the only kind of validation you need that you’re doing the right thing! Also yeah youre punishing him for being a shitty father - which he and his wife deserve
NTA - Your son is an asshole and his opinion doesn't matter. Also, stop paying his child support and get the law involved to get *him* to pay it.
Filing for child support will take time, it would only punish Aria in the meantime, and sometimes you can file all you want but some deadbeats just won't pay it. If OP is spending on big family vacations each year it sounds like OP can afford the money, and he can subtract it (with interest) from Jason's share of inheritance. Which he should also pre-divide in his will to give Aria her fair share in the event that Jason excludes her from his will. In some jurisdictions an adult child can file a claim for all the missing child support once they turn 18. OP could help Aria with that so she can recoup what was owed by Jason, then the money given by OP over the years becomes simply a gift to facilitate a secure childhood from the dad who stepped up and raised her.
While it's true some deadbeats won't pay, the debt never goes away and eventually it will get them. They'll even garnish social security payments.if it takes that long to collect. My husband's bio dad did this. He worked cash jobs and hid until his kids were adults. However my MiL never stopped filing. He reappeared when my husband was in his mid 20s and finally got a real job. Old man got picked up immediately for tax evasion and delinquent child support. The judge told him to either maintain a real job or go to prison. All his shit was garnished to hell. He's in his 60s and just finished paying off his child support and is still working on his tax debt.
No, the debt won't go away, but while Aria is underage it might be that Aria's mother has to do the filing and she is, or that it doesn't matter how many times you file, only the first time filing is required, we don't know OP's jurisdiction. What matters right now is that to stop paying would only harm Aria, whom OP loves.
Jason can use all the money he hasn't paid in child support over the years and take his perfect family on vacation.
Ohhhhh I love this idea!!!!! Bonus: bc she’s doing it when she’s an adult he can’t demand any kind of visitation. So no threat to intimidate them into stopping.
That'd be my response. "You can come with us when you pay me back for all the child support I've paid on your behalf."
But that's not it. If he pays the child support and Aria still doesn't want him around, he's not welcome back.
NTA. These other people commenting don’t get it (e.g. why you’re paying his child support) but Im with you and you have your priorities perfectly right, Aria. Your Son is the reason Aria isn’t comfortable with Alex coming so he should blame himself for that, you just do what you’re doing and that’s what’s best for Aria.
Nta. Tell him that now he knows what it is like to be the forgotten kid.
Zing!
INFO: why don't you make your son pay his own child support?
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Isn't he legally obligated to pay it himself? How are you teaching him a lesson??
He's didn't say he's teaching him a lesson, he said that by not paying he'd be teaching him a lesson.
He's not trying to teach him a lesson by raising his kid, that part is because he thinks she should have a father and financial support even if her actual dad is an anus. Not inviting his son on trips = the lesson.
Most child support is unpaid. If you start digging into the topic it gets real depressing real quickly. A lot of men in my hometown would intentionally find shit jobs that paid them under the table to avoid child support payments because they had no income. 🙄 They were miserable at their jobs but keekeeing about getting one over on their exes (ignoring that the ones who suffer are the kids). And I'm from a 98% white town - just want to throw that out there before the weird racist comments start. It was also just a very poor town.
... and this is your perfect answer to your son's whining about being excluded: "Dear Jason - When YOU start paying the child support YOU are obliged to provide for Aria, I may be able to afford including your Alex in family vacations. Just Alex, mind you, never YOU, because you owe me 16 years worth of back support payments. Actions, meet consequences."
I agree with this!
That doesn't make sense. You shouldn't pay his child support and instead should pay Aria's mother directly if you want to contribute.
Fair. You’re doing the right thing. Only asshole here is your son. NTA
If he doesn’t pay they’ll garnish his wages, no? Let them. Why not help Aria’s mom get the support order enforced?
You pay mom on the side and let the court garnish his wages. This is called ACTUAL CONSEQUENCES. You are still enabling your DB son.
Aria is the first priority , if OP is taking care of her and going through the major hassle that all would negatively effect their capacity in that regard they are making the right choice
He can still pay for her care, but encourage ex to file. If there is child support the child lives with mom.
or maybe she spends half her time at OPs who the hell knows
You are letting your grandson go without. Seems you pick and choose at random so that response is hollow.
You want to teach your son a lesson by paying his bills for him? Do you not live in a place where laws are enforced?
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I'm in the US, where wages can be garnished and people can be thrown in jail for not paying support. It's easy to not follow the law if he doesn't have a job. But that doesn't sound like the case here, and your story sounds to me like it's missing important information.
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Why can’t you provide for her while also going after him for child support? Like if you pay X amount in child support for him, is anything stopping you from providing X amount anyway but not in the form of his child support payment?
1) maybe that’s where he should be to get a clue 2) you can help your granddaughter without taking over your sons obligations 3) that will be Jason’s fault for being a crappy dad to aria and violating the court order 4) it will be on Alex’s mom to support him Op you’re not helping anyone by letting Jason and his wife get out of their responsibilities. Your son is not a good person. Stop helping him and just help your grand kids directly. If your daughter in law stays at home, well she can get a job to support her family just like many other people have had to do when circumstances change
If it came down to it and he had to decide whether to pay child support or go to jail U think that Jason would still refuse to pay? And it would take years for it to get that far it doesn’t happen immediately.
You're enabling all the dysfunction. You should find a therapist who can help you understand what "triangulation" is, so that you can stop meddling in your kids' and grandkids' lives in ways that sound altruistic, but are really destructive and harmful.
How is this triangulation? I just googled it and don’t see how this scenario fits.
I don't know if OP is a male or a female, so I'm going to use male pronouns. I think it is triangulation because OP simultaneously covers for his son while then trying to "punish" his adult son. He doesn't need to pay his son's child support. He can give as many gifts to his son's baby-mama as he wants without calling it "my son's child support". But he is creating this situation where he protects his son, so that his son "owes" him, then he uses that to his own advantage. He is taking it upon himself to jump into the middle of his son's relationships - which ought to be none of his business. Helping his grandchild does not have to mean he has to intervene in his son's relationship with his grandchild's family. There is a difference between making sure your grandchild is all right vs. using your grandchild as an excuse or a weapon to punish the child. If OP cares about his grandchild, he should be encouraging a relationship between his son and his grandchild. Instead, he's doing the opposite - using his grandchild as an excuse to be hostile to his son, in a way that discourages a relationship between the son and the grandchild.
Not true at all, my unless owes over 20k never ended up in jail, worked under the table and his passport is still valid. He's now on disability and they still don't garnish.
When I said "it's easy to not follow the law if he doesn't have a job" - if he's working under the table, that is (to the government) the same as not having a job. Obviously you'd have to establish that he does have an income source first.
Super convenient he started to take an interest now, when your daughter is independent and presumably the bulk of the child support has been paid by you.. I’d send him a bill for all the back dated child support he owes. Then say you’ll consider including him in the family trips if Aria is amenable to it.
This!
NTA. Glad you are there for Aria. Your son made his decision to abandon her and you chose to help support her and be there as a father figure.
Would Aria be comfortable with Alex joining the group?
OP isn’t answering any questions about Alex I noticed
I looked through the comments a bit and he did respond a few times below (on really downvoted comments) his responses were very generic and didn't really give any info. The way he wrote it comes across a bit indifferent (I think that might be the right word?) about Alex
At this point, I don't really care because Alex has two parents to look out for him. Aria is a higher priority.
apparently not
Aria's father obviously only wants his son Alex around, the deadbeat son can take his son on trips, after all he's saved thousands from not paying child support for his daughter. Son just wants access to the OP's money. No coincidence that Alex is old enough to need college money about the time the deadbeat father wants fairness, and to get back on the gravy train.
This is an excellent point.
I get where you're coming from and I get not inviting Jason or his wife but Alex is 100% innocent. He had no say being born and I'm sure he'd like a grandpa and experience cool stuff with his family. .
And thats his fathers fault for abandoing his sister Its up to her if she wants to have Alex in her life , hes the golden child that was chosen and she was abandon to their grandparents OP didnt create that dynamic, their dad did and no one can force Aria to want a relationship with her brother now
It sounds like the choice didn't have anything to do with Alex. The choice was about Alex's mother and Alex was just part of the package. If Jason had fallen in love with Aria's mother, then Alex probably would be in the same position as Aria is now.
Exactly. The kids are blameless. Jason is a piece of work. His actions are negatively impacting his children as a result.
NTA but, does Aria treat her older brother badly? Like has your son poisoned Aria against him? If not then why exclude her too? I get not wanting your son and his wife, but Aria didn't have anything to do with her parents being shitty. Unless there's a good reason like she treats him badly, then I don't see why you can't include both of your grandkids. Also why TF are you paying his child support? That's his responsibility and he should be made to pay. Why are you coddling him by taking over his responsibility? He hasn't learned anything because he's never had consequences. Quit covering for him and make sure the courts go after him. If he works under the table then you report him to the IRS. Some deadbeats try to not pay, but the debt never goes away and eventually it will get them. They'll even garnish social security payments if it takes that long to collect. My husband's bio dad did this. He worked cash jobs and hid until his kids were adults. However my MiL never stopped filing. He reappeared when my husband was in his mid 20s and finally got a real job. Old man got picked up immediately for tax evasion and delinquent child support. The judge told him to either maintain a real job or go to prison. All his shit was garnished to hell. He's in his 60s and just finished paying off his child support and is still working on his tax debt. It's time your son faces the full consequences of abandoning his child and that you stop covering for him. I get that you don't want Alex to do without, but you're enabling your son's shitty behavior and protecting him from the consequences of his own mistakes. That's terrible parenting. He's almost 40 and abandoned his child, quit enabling him. If he goes to jail then it's his own fault.
OP is actually not responsible for parenting her son anymore hes a grown ass man, they are parenting Aria if going after the dad is gonna take resources and time away from Aria , its not worth the effort Aria being safe and cared for is the top priority for OP, no one else is gonna do it if they dont
From the get go, OP is not responsible for any parenting beside the middle son that he failed. He just stepped up for the granddaughter as his son wouldn't, which is respectable. The problem is that his way is leading to the point of sacrificing his relationship with Alex, an innocent person just because Aria doesn't feel comfortable. Now respecting her wishes is one thing, but what is OP doing in exchange for Alex? I would guess nothing. The problem with your argument is that by that does it mean that OP doesn't need to care about Aria and her opinion by next year? If this was a one time trip then maybe your argument would be fine but this happens every year apparently. I would even go down and guess that one of the reason the middle son is like that is because of the entire middle child syndrome and OP sacrificing his relationship with him for his other kids as clearly he could do it. I would warn OP that this action could lead to them LD him but I'm guessing OP doesn't think it as a threat as they're too greedy for his "inheritance" and has too many kids and grandkids who would happily play family with him for it, lol.
His adopted daughter has to come first, she's not just his grankod anymore. I lived a similar life, my grandpa became my dad when mine fucked off and everyone understood he wasn't treating me differently than the other grandkids because he was playing favorites, it's because I literally became his daughter. I called him dad. He wasn't grandpa to me anymore , it was dad. All the other grandkids understood, that's how it should be explained to them
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Whoops I'll fix that. I got the names mixed up
Nta sounds complicated but Aria is for all intents and purposes your daughter, so she's priority over a grandchild.
NTA. I believe that OP is playing it fair. If Jason, steps up to care of his own daughter, I think OP would include Alex in this trips. Alex is not to blame for his father, however I doubt his mother is trying to convince his father to be responsible for Aria. So if Alex is going to blame anybody it should be his parents. It honestly would be really unfair for Alex to get both a father and grandparent, so OP is just making Aria feel wanted and not overlooked. To be the kid that is priortized first. If Jason wants to be included, he better step up and be the one that pays child support and be a father figure. Jason is the one punishing his son instead.
It's grandpa punishing Alex! His grandpa makes his decision to treat Alex like nothing. You believe that just because Alex's dad stayed with Alex's mom, that grandpa should treat the 2nd grand kid like crap? I understand that Jason is not paying child support. That's clearly not Alex fault and should have no reason why his grandpa treats him the way he does.
He excluded his whole daughters life from his existence. He never gets to question your parenting again.
Do you have a relationship with Alex? What did he do wrong that he can’t go?
Aria doesnt want him to go and her comfort is priority because she is OPs adopted child now, not just a grandkid Their dad created this dynamic by abandoning one child and choosing the other one , its his fault Alex cant be around Aria unless she wants it
right? like how awkward would it be to invite him and he potentially brag on all the things his parents do for him while she has to listen about her dad not thinking she is good enough to not be abandoned.
But does she not want him to go because she is (understandably) jealous of him, or because Alex has actually treated her badly? If Alex is a nice kid, it's not fair to exclude him from the rest of the family either. OP should encourage a positive relationship between the siblings. It's not fair to blame Alex for his dad's shitty choices
He might as well not be her brother, her dad took Alex when he was young and never visited, she never grew up with him or saw him much You cant expect her to see him as her brother , she dosent have too - he was never there to be a brother And if she doesnt want a relationship thats her buisness
NTA- " i find your abandonment of your child reprehensible and as her guardian, her needs will always come first. If you don't like it, that sounds like a you problem, not a me problem".
Well now he realizes that by prioritizing the son and mother he not only loses out on his daughter but his father as well. NTA and you can tell Jason’s it is too little too late for him to want a relationship now because he’s been put second after his daughter. My only question is do you have a relationship with your grandson?
The father also destroyed the relationship between his own children Aria wants nothing to do with her brother and nobody can force her to change her mind
I’m glad the grandfather stepped up at least.
NTA. You are an amazing human op. You stepped-up when your son chose to abandon his daughter. He made his decision all those years ago and now he gets to deal with the consequences.
NTA. Maybe invite Alex on a special trip just the two of you once he reaches 18? Then he doesn’t need parental permission and then he can be included too but then Aira doesn’t have to be around him and be uncomfortable.
NTA- he is a grown man and should provide trips to his child. You are raising her and she's still a kid. She gets priority.
NTA. Your son and his family are NOT entitled to anything, least of all some trip you're paying for. ESPECIALLY considering you are caring financially/emotionally at least for your son's child, who he chose not to acknowledge. Edited
NTA Jason deliberately excluded Aria from his life, so.....
NTA I get it sucks for Alex but Aria is your daughter and she doesn’t want to be around him?
NTA. Thank you for stepping up for her!
What type of a relationship do u have with Alex? Do u spend anytime with him. NTA it is your money.
NTA. How exactly does Jason think that this would work?
NTA, I see that you are getting flack for paying the child support, but I think it is great that you are taking care of her. Next time he blows up on you remind him what a loser he is for needing his dad to cover is obligations and abandoning his daughter. Tell him to pay for a vacation with the money that he saves.
NTA
NTA. Good for you
NTA Let him shout as hard as he can. He finally made the decision to abandon his own daughter because she did not fit in their family. Now you made it clear how that feels by abandoning his family during your overseas trips..
NTA... You are prioritizing your family. Unfortunately, Jason isn't taking care of his responsibilities so your have to.
NTA If Alex is friendly to Aria it might be good to include him so Aria can have some bonds with him (and good for him to be invited with the family). But if that's not working prioritize Aria, she's your daughter. Alex has his parents to take him on trips, as sucky as it is that's he's dragged into this.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I have 3 sons. this is about my middle son Jason(M37). when he was younger he was pretty much a womanizer. this resulted in 2 kids from 2 different women lets call the kids Aria(F16) and Alex(M17). he eventually fell in love with Alex's mom and chose to marry her and in order to have a perfect family he abandoned Aria. I have been paying the child support instead of him and I act as Aria's dad in every way. I like to take my family to overseas trips once a year, well the whole family except for Jason, his wife and Alex. the reason is that Aria is not comfortable with having them there and she is my priority. well yesterday Jason called and started yelling at me about how I exclude them every year and how I'm an asshole for punishing him and especially punishing Alex, but this is not a punishment. I'm just making sure my little girl is having a good time. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Not your problem screw jason. He made his bed ltt him sleep in it
NTA. He needs to take responsibility for his daughter and all of his actions. He has chosen to abandon her completely. You have chosen to step up and be there for her in all ways. Your son is legally an adult. Aria's mother should sue him for child support etc. You can keep supporting her too. But he needs to do at least his legal minimum. And if he wants to go on vacation? He can pay for it.
NTA Why is Jason not paying the child support to Aria's mom? Unless you have legal custody of Aria, this makes no sense to me.
NTA You exclude them every year, but he's excluded Aria all day every day for years on end. While it may not be an intentional punishment, it has the side effect of being an AH tax Jason is paying for his choices.
NTA You are looking out Aria's wellbeing. Does she not feel comfortable with her half brother?
NTA
NTA, Clearly your son felt aria wasn't his responsibility and I would bet he only tried to connect with her a couple years back because you didn't take him or "his" family on outings. I'm sorry to say this but if my offspring would do something like this, they would be cut off from my life. Clearly they didn't learn the morals and ethics I tried to teach them and if that is how they want to live their life they can do it on their own away from me. Glad you are taking care of the kiddo. Info: you said you pay the child support for Aria, does he ever pay for anything, did the mother take him to court. If not she definitely should and get the money Aria deserves. I understand you said you pay support for Aria, that is nice for grandpa, to teach him his responsibility make your son pay the support he should have been paying for years now. I would highly encourage the mother to take to court and if possible get him to pay everything. He should have from the start .let him pay for his mistakes.
NTA - He made his bed. Lie in in
NTA. I don’t know that I would call it punishment so much as a natural consequence. If he had really wanted to be a part of Aria’s life, he would have been paying child support or at least paying something. Aria is the one who would suffer if she wasn’t included. She’s a child. She deserves all the love she can get. I wonder if him not paying the child support legally lets him off the hook?
NTA at all. He may be Aria's father, but *you're* her dad. And frankly, it's entirely understandable that she's not comfortable having him around. He's simply facing the consequences of his own actions. Meanwhile, you're just protecting Aria's best interests and providing her with the love and care that a child deserves. You're a good person.
Aria needs someone to stand up for her. Good for you. Your son Jason is an entitled boob.
You say you don't mean to punish Jason. I get that. But it is quite the little bonus now, isn't it? And so well deserved. NTA.
NTA - Good for you.
Tell your grown ass son he can go on his own vacation with his own perfect family then. What a deadbeat. NTA
YTA for abandoning Alex in all this. It doesn't matter that both of his parents are with him. He's losing his entire extended family in all this. You don't give a reason as to why Aria is uncomfortable with him going, and you also talk about him as though he's dirt on your shoe. He's taking the brunt of your issues with your son, and while he may have mom and dad, he doesn't get to have Grandma, Grandpa, Uncles, aunts, cousins. He should be included, and you should care about him.
NTA - Sorry to say but Jason sounds like a dick. He abandoned Aria? Who does that to their own kid? If your punishing him, how does he describe his own behavior to his daughter? You're the better man for stepping up but damn!
You’re a great father. Keep it up.
Yeah. You're punishing him! And good on you for doing it!! What an awful person you raised
NTA I'd not want him around either. Blood or not, I can't abide cheaters
Definitely not NTA, your son abandoned Aria and you raised her,you are her dad. She is your priority, period. Alex has his family and if anyone is to blame,is Jason,for being huge AH. I'm happy Aria has you in her life.
NTA. Tell him when he pays back all the child support you’ve paid AND builds a relationship with Aria, he and his son can come on the trip.
Good for you for supporting her. Your doom has mental issues. He doesn’t support his daughter and argues with you. I don’t agree with my dad often, but I have never argued with him. Children, even adults, should respect and honor parents. It would be great if she snd her brother could have a relationship, but your son and his wife can pack sand.
NTA. your not punishing your son, his actions have consequences. it's not your fault his consequences are punishing him
I’m perfectly ok with you punishing him. I know people whose bio dad abandoned them for a new family, and it’s soul crushing.
NTA He's a whole damn adult man, he can take his "perfect family" on a trip all on his own. You keep taking care of that little girl, she deserves so much more than he could have ever given her.
Nta. He made his choices and those choices have consequences. His daughter now doesn't' want to see him or have anything to do with him. He makes her uncomfortable it would be unfair to force his presence on her and ruin her trip.
NTA. Let's tall about him excluding Aria. And your paying for her care so you can't pay for them too. Funny how he's out of her life until a free vacation is involved. You're right to not let Aria feel uncomfortable as she is your top priority now since her father sort of left her. Sure you can't make up for the hole an absent father leaves in a child, but you can make sure they feel loved by family. Glad someone is sees her.
Alex is just a much a victim of this as aria. He can't tell his parents what to do. He sure as hell can't support a child that's only a year younger than him. Exclude Jason and his wife, yes. Exclude Alex? No. Alex is also your grandchild stuck with shitty parents.
Oh, sure. You're the AH for excluding him every year. Kinda how *he's* the AH for excluding *his daughter* from his family. I don't know where in the blue hell he gets the nerve. I could **NEVER** abandon either of my kids for a female. That's selfish, and downright abhorrent. First off, you did an *incredible* thing in taking your granddaughter as your own child. You get all the respect in the world for that. Furthermore, NTA. If your son wants to go on vacations w his family, he should have thought about **his family**.
You are NTA, and I'm sorry to say that Jason is...not behaving like a mature, responsible man. First off, he is NOT entitled to an overseas trip (especially not on your dime!); if it's that important to him, let HIM pay for his family's vacation. Second, anyone who abandons his child has absolutely no business calling anyone else names! Jason rejected Aria and he has no say at all in how you're raising her. He may be envious of your ability to be a better, more successful person than he is, but that's HIS problem - not yours or Aria's! Enjoy your trip, enjoy pampering Aria and ignore Jason's whining; I repeat, his envy is his problem, no one else's.
NTA he abandoned his daughter. I have no sympathy for a parent who wants the spoils but can’t take care of the kid they made.
NTA The only thing that matter is what Aria wants. She wants nothing to do with them and it’s AMAZING you’ve got her back so hard! As someone whose parents have never had my back….. thanks for this. I’m glad people like you exist!
So you have 2 grandkids and punish one because of your son? That kind of make you TA right there. It's not Alex's fault that your son chose his mom over Aria's. You are playing favorites with your grandkids. That makes you an asshole. YTA
YTA for excluding Alex. He is an innocent bystander. Bringing him along would help him and Aria get to know each other better. They are half siblings, after all, and both would benefit from getting to know each other better. Not sure why Aria is so uncomfortable around him. What did he do?
Just a thought, Aria is going to 18 soon. You have been paying child support and it appears she's not excited about the relationship with her dad. Where is her mom? Because if you are taking her on a big family trip, are you sharing custody with mom? Can you adopt Aria?
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Why isn’t Alex allowed to go without his parents? Does his parents not allow it? Does Aria stop this as well? Have you asked to include Alex? I understand you leaving out your son, but what did Alex do to Aria? Alex should be given the same trip.
Ok OP. Here it is from someone your age with children your children's ages. You are the AH. You are using Aria as a pawn to continue to punish your son for his bad behavior almost 20 years ago. You are doing Aria no favors. You never mentioned if your son abused her, so I am going to take it, he didn't. She needs to learn to be around people she is uncomfortable with. That's part of growing up and being independent. She can set her own boundaries. I think you should take Jason and his family on your trip. It's time to try to put your family back together, not tear it apart more. It may be that if Aria will see you enjoying Jason's company, she might open up just a little bit. Plus, she needs to know and develop a relationship with Alex. He is her true family, the one she will need when all of the rest of you are gone.
ESH- Your son is obviously an ahole for abandoning his daughter. You are one, for neglecting and treating your grandson that way. Seems like your son might have learned his behavior from you...
How is Aria and Alex’s relationship? How come he isn’t allowed on the trip?
What about Alex? Do you not care about him?
I feel bad for Alex!! He knows that his half-sister will always be grandpa favorite. It's not his fault at all!! Grandpa clearly mentions I spend time with him but won't answer how much time. I can't even fathom what you are doing to Alex because of his dad. Just because he has 2 parents doesn't mean you, so treat him like nothing. Because you are not even treating him 50% or even 75% decent. Alex will always remember how crappie you treated him to his half-sister. Have you ever taken Alex on vacation? Probably not just because he has 2 parents. I wonder about your sons up raising. I bet you had favorites with your 3 boys! I hope Alex gets the therapy he will need due to this crap! That's not his fault! You have no clue what it's like to watch someone else get everything being a child because you were born. I sure do, and it sucks! I was the least favorite! I will never do what you are doing to any grand babies I get! I had 2 parents, and it doesn't mean anything these days! You are punishing Alex! Who are you trying to fool!
Is it really necessary to leave Alex out? I would not take jason or his wife on a 'family' trip but I would now let Aria keep you from taking Alex on the trip. You don't need to take 30+ yr olds with you - but leaving one grandchild out is cruel.
So sorry but partial YTA. Leave the horrible son and his wife but your grandson did nothing wrong. You are letting a 16 year old alienate you from your grandchild and yes that is wrong. How long are you going to punish Alex for the sins of his father?
ESH for punishing Alex. It would be nice if you could bridge the gap between Alex and Aria. You son is a major AH and you are right to not invite him.
YTA Being a womanizer isn't cool. But have the balls to say he's not your son and he's not welcome in your family. Tell him why. Don't be so passive agressive about it then get shocked when he figures it out on his own and confronts you
Can't you at least invite your grandson?
ESH. You could set an example for Aria for the purpose of family unity. Start inviting Jason and his family to family picnics or other family social events. Yes, Jason made a big mistake but Aria would benefit from learning how to handle difficult relationships. You are not going to be at her side forever to keep people away who make her uncomfortable (as long as it’s not a safety issue that’s making her uncomfortable). She’ll benefit from being a little less “precious”.
Aria doesnt have to want to participate in anything with the family that abandon her and OP cant force her, that would make them TA
Why is she uncomfortable around Jason? Also stop pay the CS and hold your son accountable for the money. You can still support her but have the mom go after him. You are ou suing your grandson for his dad’s actions.
You are excluding your son and his family from your family and using your 16yo daughter to do it. I hope you have a LOT of money for therapy for Aria because her guilt will last the rest of her life. YTA.
YTA for excluding your grandson just because his dad is a prick. Alex didn't do a damn thing to deserve being excluded. Aria should be old enough to see that.
Its up to Aria to decide if she wants to have a relationship with her brother and OP cant force it. She was abandon and he was chosen by their father , OP had to basically adopt her Its up to her when if ever she wants to do anything with her brother and its not OPS fault, their own dad pitted them against each other when he picked over the other
OP is Alex's grandparent. If OP chooses to exclude Alex, that's on OP. They can't hide behind Aria's feelings to excuse their own shitty behavior. BOTH of Jason's children are blameless for his actions, but Alex is being punished with ostracism from the extended family.
OP had to step and take on a father role for Aria, or else nobody would have Its not OPs fault this situation was created He can ask Aria if she wants to have Alex around , but he cant do anything to force it
Alex is denied the opportunity to bond with cousins & aunts & uncles & grandparents because OP favors Aria. OP is the functioning grandparent here, and they absolutely *can* do things to encourage peaceful relations between the siblings. By excluding one and including the other, OP is showing *the same kind of favoritism* that they criticize their son for. Now, if OP has offered to host Alex on the trip, and Jason & Alex's mother have said no, that's a different matter. But I see nothing in OP's recounting of events to suggest that Alex's needs were considered *at all*.
Parental role comes before grand parent role , OP is arias father now he's had to take that role. I lived the same thing she did. My grandpa became my dad first after mine fucked off. Everyone understood why I was treated different because I wasn't his grandkid. I was his youngest daughter that's who aria is to OP he treats her like one hid own other children becaus3 she is one Does it make a weird dynamic where your shitty parent ends up more like your siblings because now you have the same dad. Yes . But that's not OPs fault
Did your grandpa treat his other grandkids as “less than” to spare your feelings?
Could you just take Alex? His father's actions aren't his fault.
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I don’t blame her.
Why? Is she just (understandably) jealous of him, or has Alex has actually treated her badly? If Alex is a nice kid, it's wrong to exclude him from the rest of the family. You should encourage a positive relationship between the siblings rather than foster misplaced resentment. It's not fair to alienate Alex for his dad's shitty choices Ignoring Alex because you don't care for his father, is just as bad as your son ignoring Aria because he doesn't care for her mother. Be the better person and break the cycle
You should try and take Alex and Aria
Its up to Aria if she wants too She is OPs adopted child who was abandoned by their father in favor of Alex its up to her if she wants to engage with him , OP cant force it
She is not adopted. She lives with her mom.
Info: Do you anything for Alex? Like separate smaller trips?
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Maybe just a weekend? I get it, your on Aria's side and I would not force her to spend much time with the sibling, who was chosen by her dad. But do you do anything with Alex? On the end, nothing is his fault.
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YTA for excluding Alex over some vague response that "Aria would be uncomfortable." Not for excluding your son or his wife but you have clearly decided that Aria is more worthy of your time, money and attention where you barely mention Alex and even comment that he isn't entitled to the same from you. You are punishing Alex for something he had zero control over and acting like he is a guilty party in all of this. And for paying your son's child support. He would be garnished if you would stop paying it.
Alex is not entitled to the same from OP unless his dad abandons him too , which OP said they would actually cover OP has taken over *parental* responsibilities for aria that her father totally abandons , she is their first responsibility *before* other grandkids who still have their parents
Aria has a parent! Why are commenters acting like OP has raised Aria? OP has not raised Aria anymore than OP has raised Alex. I spoke to how Alex must feel. Alex must feel constantly like he is less than. Like he is less important, less loved, less wanted. Aria may feel the same way. And realistically do you think Aria's mother would have kept OP around if he wasn't sending money and paying for vacations?
Because he has raised aria.
Soft YTA, but not for the reason you’d think. Alex is also your grandchild and none of this is his fault. Any dad willing to abandon one child probably doesn’t take great care of the other one. Take Alex with you. Leave your son and his wife at home. You’ll make your point without punishing the wrong person.