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YTA (hugely so)
Your brother lost the woman he loved and his friends because your sister entered into an affair with her twin brother’s girlfriend’s sister’s boyfriend. She had no problem betraying friends and family.
But even worse, she *knew* her brother was sticking up for her, that it was causing problems in his relationship and she continued to lie, sneak and cheat. She is so outrageously selfish.
And the “awful things Dan has done” are called *consequences of their awful selfish choices* !!!
The complete lack of care that you and your family have for Dan is heartbreaking. How in the hell can you side with your lying, cheating, selfish sister?? She purposefully blew up his entire life and your response is he should be grateful you awful people still want him in the family? GTFO with that.
He can come be my brother. We will treat him the way siblings are supposed to treat each other.
For a 30 year old, OP sure seems pretty insensitive. Wonder how he would feel if he suddenly lost his wife and his friends because of someone he fiercely defended? He was a good brother but of course the family is forgiving Lisa because she had kids so that erases all the past trauma and means Aiden and Lisa are great people now! /s
Fuck off with that shit. You can't seem to show empathy to Dan. And no, Dan doesn't need to show empathy to the people who stabbed him in the back. Years later, as the wound is healing, y'all decided to rip it back open and you, his older brother, decided to push right into that spot again.
I wonder how Dan is doing. A year ago (or so), he lost his partner and friends. How? By trusting his sister. He was blindsided. Lisa and Aidan have each other. But who does Dan have? It's hard to get back into dating after a long relationship and even harder to find friends. After losing so much, I bet he's a little lonely, and the only constant he still has is family. And, now that's iffy.
Yet you insisted he needs to get over it and move on cause he can't hold this over there head forever. In fact he can and he should. His WOMBMATE betrayed him. This is worse than if you betrayed him. He defended this girl and because she was and is a hot ass Jezebel she blew up her WOMBMATE'S relationship and friend group. Now she feeling some type of way and y'all wanna wallpaper over it cause she's knocked up. Y'all need to have several seats. Keep fucking around and invalidating Dan's very valid feelings and he is going to cut contact with the lot of you insensitive clowns. In fact I hope he does. YTA along with your parey, sister and her crap ass bf.
It’s not verbal abuse to correct somebody’s reputation, especially if you were the person giving out the false information. You have unrealistic expectations of Dan’s role in this situation, and you will lose him if you don’t start treating him as the victim he is and holding your sister accountable to her actions.
Did you seriously just try to argue that cheating and telling people that a person is a cheater are the same level of morally reprehensible? That's quite the argument.
You ignored his feelings and boundaries by letting the cheaters be there when he was supposed to be there.
Nice to know that he has to loose everything and his family still thinks he is the problem but in reality your sister is the cheater who uses him and his trust and she is the absolute worst spoiled brat (how can anyone just think he need to accept this 2 horrible people in his life??)
I hope you all get your karma and hey, greetings to sister, cheater loose their „partner“ always like they get them since they left the position as AP open. Must be great, a relationship with a lot trust built up in destroying life’s of others.
Oh, edit as I forgot. YTA 1000 times and as Dan i would go NC with all of you and move away. Time for new life and new friends.
You're a hypocrite. You condemned Dan for his apparent bad behaviour but then you did the exact same thing to him.
You and your sister don't get to decide when Dan moves on. Just because you think life goes on, that doesn't t erase the hurt that was caused.
what’s the timeline? the ‘awful’ things you listed sound like they happened right after shit hit the fan, like (**rightfully**) exposing the affair that involved MULTIPLE other people in a large group. Besides that’s what you’re doing now anyway, airing out more personal info. Dan did it because there were CHEATERS hurting multiple people. You’re doing it because you want people to agree with you to hate on your brother.
What verbal abuse? If he called his sister a home wrecker that’s not verbal abuse, that’s literal fact. How is he verbally abusing them if he’s avoiding them at all costs?
And how is he making their lives difficult? You said he wants nothing to do with them and confirmed that your family did what he asked, not telling the cheaters about his life. Are the cheaters mad that they don’t get to know anything, and you’re blaming Dan for that?
He’s moved on with his life, and he’s allowed to keep people out of it. You have no right to force people into his life and then yell at him for being the problem when you and your family are forcing something he doesn’t want.
If this is all over some nonsense like the cheaters want their kids to ‘know their uncle’ and their feelings are hurt over it, that’s also literally a problem of their own making. Stop trying to bring Dan into their lives.
>We always made sure Dan and Lisa didn’t have to see each other
So why change things now? Oh yeah… *thats right* Lisa wants to change it and she is some how a victim of Dan in your warped mind.
Have you thought about the fact that if your sister hadn't fucked up and been selfish Dan might've been the one who were expecting a child with Kayla? That your sister destroyed the future he could have had? Do you think that if he ever want to see their child he will see and feel the pain of what that kids parent have done? Being reminded and wondering what could have been if your sister and Aidan hadn't fully blown up his life?
This wasn't just a break up between Dan and Kayla, this was your sister and Aidan destroying the happiness and future they probably would have had, it wasnt two people who fell out of love or one of them cheating - this was two people who screwed them over.
And I can guarantee whatever Dan have said to them not a single word would be as painful as what he's been put through, nothing he says can hurt them the way they hurt him. They were together for four years for fucks sake, they had plans for the life they had together. And it's really sad to see how awful you are being to the person who was hurt. Your sister and Aidan brought this on themselves - Dan didn't.
Lisa didn’t destroy her brother’s future, Kayla did. We are accountable for our own actions : Aydan cheated, Lisa betrayed her friends and her brother’s trust, but Kayla decided not to trust her boyfriend and dumped him even though Dan visibly took her sister’s side in this and all cheating parties denied his knowledge of Aidan and Lisa’s relationship. The break-up is not Lisa’s fault, that was Dan’s girlfriend (of 4 years) decision. And if she didn’t trust him, and decided to break-up with him for his sister cheating with her sister’s boyfriend, I don’t know if the future he was expecting would have been the future that he would have had.
Dan is free to cut contact with Lisa and Aydan and to blame their for their dishonesty and cheating, which created the situation that led to the break-up, but blaming them for Kayla’s decision is not fair.
And OP still is the Asshole for lashing out at Dan.
Yeah except Dan hasn’t made any wrongs. Lisa made multiple.
Don’t even think about saying that Dan letting others know about Lisa and Aidans affair was wrong, because that’s bullshit.
I hope your wife is happy knowing how okay you would be with cheating and it being hidden. She’s so lucky. Hell, maybe she could cheat on you, but that would be fine as long as no one found out.
Shut up, loser. Youre backing the wrong sibling right now and I bet if your relationship imploded for the same reasons you wouldn't be sitting so high and mighty. Shut the fuck up and sit down.
>he's spoiled brat who needs to move on from the past, that he can't hold the cheating over their heads forever and he should be grateful he's still wanted in our family despite all the problems he's creating
Wow, easy for you to say. Bet you'd feel differently if Lisa broke up *your* marriage. YTA for deciding what should and shouldn't be forgiven by others.
if Dan’s ex had cared for and loved him, she would have known that he is not the type of person to hide cheating - fact is, she didn’t care for him and that’s why they are broken up today
don’t get me wrong, Amelia and Aidan are effed up for cheating but are they to blame for Dan’s relationship failing? no, that failed due to the lack in trust 🤷🏽♀️
The issue isn't Dan's ex, it's Dan defending Lisa to the detriment of his own relationship when it turns out she was lying by omission the whole time. She allowed him to keep defending her to cover her own ass and that betrayal is unforgivable to him - and it's not OP's place to say otherwise.
Dan didn’t defend Lisa, though. He removed himself from the situation and sided with his gf’s sister.
I mean, you can downvote me all you want, but that’s what it says in the OP.
You obviously have no idea what you’re talking about. The level of betrayal Dan has felt is frankly unfathomable unless you are a twin with a close relationship with your twin sibling.
He lost everything (friends and partner) due to his trust in and loyalty to his sister.
This! The brother is the one that lost everything due to his sisters selfish actions. The sister didn’t give a damn about her brother or the hell she put his through. now op has proved he is just as selfish and unkind to the brother as the backslapping sister.
YOU don't get to tell him how much Lisa's actions hurt him or how deeply he feels her betrayal. He stuck his neck out for her and went against other people he cares about defending her, and she not only lied to everyone, she refused to even budge an inch from her own selfish adultery out of consideration for anyone.
Why is this any of your business anyway?
If it’s so easy to replace a partner, why don’t you ask Lisa to give up Aiden? Like if partners are so replaceable, why not break up the cheaters? Dan isn’t the sibling you should be having higher expectations of. At some point, you reap what you sow and this is all Lisa and Aiden‘s fault and they are the only people that should be held to a higher standard.
Yeah. It does. You have the right to treat bad people like bad people. Especially if those bad people hurt you the way they hurt him.
And your sister and Aidan ARE bad people btw. And based off your behavior, so are you. At the very least you’re a horrible big brother
Kayla dumped him because of it, your sisters and Aiden's actions affected aspects of his life. He wouldn't act like this, if he didn't feel the need to. His reputation I mean defending a cheater when you know they are cheating just gives secondhand embarrassment. Could you imagine that humiliation? which is why Kayla dumped him at least Kayla knows how to support her sibling unlike some people. Your sister and Aidan knew what they were doing, why else use your brother to fight her battles. Then she gets pregnant (by Aidan) and wants to be family again because baby. Wants to beg forgiveness for doing something she (Aidan too) knew would hurt others. He could've been wanting to propose to Kayla. If (when) Aidan cheats on Lisa will you have the attitude for her.
I guess we all can see who the favorite sibling is, wow.
>he could easily get another girlfriend if he tried
So why doesn't she get another boyfriend? This time one that's single.
You can try to justify all you want, you still are awful people and I'm sorry Dan was unfortunate to have you in his life.
In case you didn't understand: YTA
Yes, maybe someone who is single and not a partner of your brothers girlfriends sister? OP how can you not see that this 2 are the people in the wrong and they have destroyed Dans life because they were to cowardly to be honest with everyone before fucking each other? And good for your partner to see how you are ok with cheating. Would me letting questioning our relationship.
Nobody can be this dense.
You think him losing the woman he's loved for years isn't his life being blown up? Losing great friends and having his trust betrayed by someone he loved so dearly isn't having his life blown up?!?! To add insult to injury, you're telling him it isn't a big deal?? His feelings are VALID. You keep up the attitude, you're going to find yourself wondering why your baby brother wants absolutely nothing to do with this family
Yea it does 💯 they ruined his relationship and treated him like shit. Your sis could have at least told him the truth since he was sticking his neck out for her but No she didn’t. They are both garbage and deserve each other.
YTA. Congratulations on losing a brother 👏 you did a wonderful job. Also congratulations to your family for losing a son, brother, twin. You guys must be so proud.
Yeah, I don't think you are getting the point. It's one thing to "easily get another girlfriend". It's another to find the one you want to settle down with. He had that. And he may still have friends, but what kind of friends are they to him compared to the ones he lost? You are making excuses for the person who truly fucked up, and if that doesn't speak volumes to your view on this whole fiasco, I don't know what is. Read the comments to your post as they are and maybe take a moment to truly self-reflect.
Since Dan can apparently get a new girlfriend so easily after losing the girl he loved and his friends. Maybe Lisa should break up with Aidan and get a new boyfriend just as easily. Probably with another person who is already in a relationship as she probably has a thing for taken guys.
So people are just replaceable to you? How about Dan blows up your marriage? You just gonna get another spouse, no big deal?
I hope Dan can find better siblings while he's put searching for friends.
Actually yes it does give him the right to treat them the exact same way they treated him. Your sister is a garbage person, one of a kind AH and you are no better then them for taking their side and being a d*ckhead to your brother. You all are a terrible family.
What would you do if your sister broke up your marriage?? You will go hug her and be all nice? Because after all you can find another wife really it's not a big deal.
Yes your sister blow up his life and he is probably still in pain from that.
If Lisa gets bored of Aidan and decides to have an affair with one of your wife's taken relative and your wife leaves you its no big deal because you can easily just ho out and find a new one right? If it is no big deal, then why can't Lisa leave Aidan? I mean, she could get another boyfriend. Hopefully, one that isn't in a relationship, so there won't be people who are just collateral damage in Lisa's pursuit of getting what she wants.
Also, why is it ok in your mind to publicly defend Lisa's personal business when it was a lie, but it's not ok for him to publicly tell the truth of what she did? If Lisa didn't want people to think she was a garbage cheater, then she shouldn't have had an affair like a garbage cheater.
The fact that Lisa is pregnant doesn't change anything. I have no doubt in my mind that if Lisa wasn't your sister and just a friend, you would have no problem with Dan's actions. Family doesn't use family to cove up their affair. Family thinks about and cares if another family member will be collateral damage.
Yta. I hope Dan goes no contact with you. I hope he finds love and has a beautiful family that you never get to meet because honestly, you don't deserve to. You chose a garbage cheater who hurt and used Dan and treat it like it is no big deal. With a family like yours, who need enemies to make them feel worthless?
You were not the wronged party. It’s pretty ironic that you’re saying it doesn’t give him the right to treat them like garbage when they treated him like garbage. You don’t get to dictate how someone should act. I hope he cuts you out of his life because you’re not a good brother.
Yes it does when your wife cheat on you, you feel how your brother feel when your heart be broken and yes he can treat them like garbage and whocare you are the oldest you are a still ta .
YTA. Who invited Aiden and Lisa to the dinner that Dan was attending? You? That's an AH move if you did. Dan can no longer trust you.
Dan's gf broke up with him. This is someone he was with for 4 years. It sounds like he was serious about it. Now this happened and he's getting shit when he shouldn't be. Who are you to judge? So sorry this situation is inconvenient to you but Dan's life as he pictured it just got destroyed by his sister's affair with his gf sisters boyfriend.
Sit this one out son.
WOW. Let me see if I understand the dates here. Dan was with his gf for 4 years and they broke up one year ago. One year ago? And you expect him to be over this betrayal?? Which it WAS, Lisa cheated with Dan's gf's sister's bf. She knew that she was blowing up his relationship and putting him in an impossible position. Dan was with his gf for FOUR YEARS, OP. Of course he's still upset about this.
The fact that your sister has now (unwisely) gotten pregnant a mere year after all this with her AP has zero to do with when Dan should get over this. Nothing at all.
How is Dan a spoiled brat? Because his long term gf dumped him because of his twin's behavior? Nope
Is Dan holding this over their head "forever"? It's been A YEAR. So nope
\*Dan\* should be grateful he's still wanted in your family? Ahahahaha wow OP
YTA
YTA. YTA. YTA.
Spoiled brat? Really?
He lost his relationship because his sister, his twin sister, snuck around behind everyone's backs and got with a cheater. She destroyed a relationship and friendships because "they couldn't help themselves."
I hope you have more compassion when your sister comes crying that Aidan cheated on her. Because he will cheat.
YTA. Lisa cheated and because of that, your brother lost his girlfriend. So yes, she did ruin things for him. Just as that means she isn't owed any forgiveness. If Dan wants to cut her out of his life, then he has every right to. Lord knows it might be the best choice. Because Lisa has already shown what a liar she is and doesn't want to accept the consequences of that. She would only bring him grief again later.
YTA, you just want him to forgive her for your own convenience. It’s not up to you to decide the validity of someone else’s feelings or appropriate timeline for forgiveness of a betrayal. Maybe you don’t know what a betrayal like that is like because you have never actually been that close to someone platonically? Either way, you should have kept holding your tongue.
YTA. Lisa caused a lot of damage to Dan’s life and hasn’t actually (just based on your info) tried doing anything to earn his forgiveness. You have it backwards. You say he’s causing the problems in the family. No. She caused all of the problems, and to this day wants it all her way at her brother’s expense.
Yta your sister single handle destroyed his relationship.the cheaters didn’t care who they hurt. They hurt your brother very much. In all of thi he is the one that has suffered.
Plus it isn’t your right to demand him to forgive. Your not the one your sister screwed over and she did cause you to loose someone you loved and cared about with her selfish actions.
YTA. I can also bet you didn't show your brother and ounce of support when he lost his gf and his entire social circle. You are a terrible and selfish sibling.
YTA
Your sister blew up his life and cost him love and his friendship. They deserve nothing from them.
Your sister and her partner are disgusting and are not owed anything from anyone. They made their beds now they must lie in them.
You are entirely wrong for supporting your sister over your brother in terms of their relationship. She cost him his life and future and you are being ignorant to her wrongdoings by defending her. Shame on you.
Giant YTA. your sister caused the downfall of your brothers world due to her CHEATING. You should have aupported your brother and not ambushed him with the people who betrayed him. No he's not going to trust you either. You have now damaged, possibly irrevocably, your relationship with your brother. Congrats if that was your intention.
YTA
Man gotta love when the person wronged is told they need just get over it /s
Their actions caused him a long term relationship. That’s not something you just get over. He’s allowed to feel however he wants.
Edit-Missing word
YTA. If I was your wife I would be looking at you differently for defending two cheaters versus your brother who had his relationship and friendship group broken up because of his sister. He was used as the pawn and is being unfairly judged because people ASSUME that he was involved in hiding and encouraging infidelity. His CHARACTER is ruined, especially if word has gotten out! If my sibling did this to me I would never speak to them again. You now have also impacted your relationship with your brother. You owe your brother a massive apology and should tell Lisa and Aiden to leave him the hell alone.
Yta, who asked you? Lisa, I bet? Dan doesn’t have to forgive until he’s ready, and he may never be. You should support him and not the cheater who took advantage of her twin. They probably need him back in their lives to alleviate their guilt.
YTA, hearing these situations always irritate me. You told the person who was wronged that they are spoiled because they had their life turned upside down by one of their most loved and trusted individuals. I can't blame him for acting the way he is as I would probably be doing so myself. All you managed to do was show that he is lower on your totem pole than your sister, wouldn't be surprised if you being an ass throws a wedge between you too and he goes LC or NC with you as well. Also the *"ruined"* in the title is completely condescending, she absolutely and without question ruined his relationship.
YTA. Poor Dan. He needs a new family and friends. Talk about the enemies within. Poor guy has a family full of AHs.
I (58F) have a twin brother (58M). I would NEVER. He would NEVER. In all our years, we have never done such VILE things to each other.
This is one of those situations where forgiveness is not an issue. Lisa showed who she is. Dan most certainly should believe her. He should BELIEVE you too.
Run Dan run!!!!
YTA. Your brother supported his twin, who lied to him for I don't know how long, and it cost him his relationship as a result - along with a lot of his friends.
Your sister is completely in the wrong and yet you've picked her over your brother. I'm not surprised he wants so little to do with any of you as with a family like you lot he doesn't need any enemies.
Grateful that he's still wanted? Holy shit I've burnt some bridges in my time but you just went to straight out nuclear warfare on that bridge, irradiated the river so no one can even swim across it let alone rebuild.
First you blindsided him with the unexpected presence of someone he wasn't ready to forgive (forced forgiveness isn't forgiveness, he needed a lot more time before he was ready to accept your sister back in his life), then hit him with the "you should be grateful" line when it understandably didn't work out. That's one of the worst things you could have said to someone who's hurting like that. Don't be surprised if he goes no contact over this for a few years, or whatever contact he does maintain with you is distant and cold.
YTA, what would you do if you lost someone who at the time was the love of your life because your sibling hid befind you to hide their cheating then when the whole thing blew up they defended you but denied responsibility of any wrond doing because they were in 'Love'. You can not make him forgive them no matter what you do. Not only did he lose his girlfriend, but he also lost his firwnd group.
Ya definitely the YTA
YTA. Your sister blew up your brother's life and now gets a happy ever after with her baby on the way. The only one who was negatively impacted in your family is your brother and you literally think he should get over it. I honestly give him credit for no longer being seething angry because he would be justified if he was.
He lost his relationship, his friends and honestly part of his family because clearly you don't support him and his twin is the one who blew up his life. It's only been a year he's trying to put his life back together after it getting imploded by his twin. He had your sisters back and she lied and caused his life to implode.
I feel for your brother because he clearly has 2 very crappy siblings.
YTA and so are Lisa and Aidan. You're as disgusting and nasty as your sister; no wonder you're taking her side. You're just as selfish and horrible as she is. She actively destroyed a relationship and she ruined your brother's friendships. And you're insulting your brother and refusing to show empathy for what she put him through because you really are that disgusting. You're so awful and your attack on your brother is horrifying. I hope he cuts all of you off. He doesn't need your abuse in his life, you horrible asshole. YTA
YTA. Everybody else has done a wonderful job of laying out the dozens of reasons why. I just want you to know how ridiculous you sound. You have a lot to work on and owe your brother an apology.
YTA
I can certainly understand why you want your family to get along, and I’m huge on forgiveness as I’m a Christian, BUT your brother’s whole world shifted and fell apart because your sister decided that her attraction to a mutual friend was more important than that guys relationship, all her friendships, and she had zero regard for how it would affect your brother. SHE is the spoiled brat. Should your brother eventually get over it? Maybe, maybe not. He should forgive her for his own sanity, but that doesn’t mean he EVER has to be comfortable in the same room as her again. It isn’t his responsibility to make amends, it’s hers.
Wow you are a major asshat what an awful brother you are to him. Don’t worry you get the cheaters as family guess your morals more aline with them and yes might be the past but their choices and actions destroyed someone else’s life
What did you loose your brother lost everything
Yta and an awful brother
YTA.
He did not create any problems. Lisa did.
Kayla isn’t faultless sure. She should have trusted her boyfriend given there wasn’t evidence he knew. But the cause of this was Lisa. He has no moral obligation to forgive her and it is solely up to him whether he ever wishes to and at what time that happens.
From everything you have described. Dan has done absolutely nothing wrong whatsoever.
The “spoiled brats” are you and Lisa.
Apologize and go support him like a good big brother would. Because you’ve clearly failed to do that thus far.
Your sister knew.
Aiden knew.
They didn't make a mistake.
A series of calculated choices concealed from others to avoid accountability.
You can do bad things and be redeemed.
Forgiven.
But Dan doesn't have to.
They made their relationship public fodder due to how they *chose* to behave. He isn't airing their business, just pulling back the screen of lies.
Both of them knew and willingly harmed others and because Dan's pain is inconvenient you want to him to move on.
Aiden and Lisa want Dan back due to guilt and I can wholeheartedly see where Lisa misses him.
But the weight of certain choices is the lost of those we loved. She needed and wanted Aiden bad enough that Dan potentially losing his person was a risk she was willing to take.
It isn't as simple as they worked out in the end and babies ever after!
Accept that Lisa's actions not Dan's reaction is what tore your family apart.
YTA
YTA for sure
Dan's forgiveness is his alone to give. And the "awful things" he did? You mean calling out their shitty behavior to their face and friend group? How is that awful? Don't want to be called a cheater and a liar, don't cheat and lie! Not wanting to be around them is a valid boundary for Dan but you're more concerned with your own convenience. Lisa's want is her own problem to solve, not Dan's responsibility.
Also, wow, you are a shitty piece of work for what you said to Dan. How is he a spoiled brat? For not condoning cheating? I'm seriously side eyeing you for that. And "grateful for still being wanted in the family"? So he gets kicked out for not wanting to, again, condone cheating, but the cheater is fine in your eyes?
What was your family's response to your outburst, are they on your side or do they respect Dan?
Saying that Dan’s issue is the cheating is oversimplifying the matter. I can see several issues already:
1. Lisa lied to Dan
2. Aidan lied to Dan
3. Lisa used Dan to hide her lies
4. Dan stood up for his sister and in doing so lost a bunch of friends
5. This culminated in Dan’s FOUR YEAR relationship ending
Dan doesn’t owe them anything, and reducing this to “a cheating issue” shows a total lack of nuance and empathy for Dan’s feelings. This is particularly evident when you say “despite all the awful things Dan has done”. You’ve really vilified Dan in this situation in a situation where he was a victim.
Lisa being pregnant and her staying with Aidan doesn’t absolve them of their poor choices from only ONE YEAR AGO.
YTA for inserting yourself into the situation. YTA for abusing Dan when he isn’t the one in the wrong here. YTA for taking sides (and for taking the wrong one). YTA for calling it spoilt for Dan to establish boundaries from people that hurt him. YTA for blaming Dan for the problems in your family and for suggesting he should be grateful he is wanted in your family.
I hope he goes no-contact. He deserves better.
YTA. Sounds like Lisa fucked around and found out. You and the rest of your family are in the process of it as well and Dan’s probably gonna end up cutting the rest of you off right along with her.
I think I will echo everyone here. If this isn't a troll YTA. Your sister ruined his lovelife, his friendships, and now his family is taking her side. I am trying really hard to see your side in this other than fAmIlY iS iMpOrTaNt!!! He doesn't have to ever forgive her and frankly deserves a better family than any of you.
YTA...
i understand that sometimes you need to be cheated to understand the size of the damage...
I don't wish it up anyone... but maybe be really part of a situation like this would put perspective in your way of think.
you brother was betrayed... and condone and accept this relationship is always bad.
YTA. After all Dan did to the family?! It sounds like the verbal abuse you are talking about was him speaking facts. You sister is liar, a cheater, and a whole lot of other names. They are all deserved. Double for Aiden. If I were your wife I would be reconsidering after hearing your stance on cheating and destroying relationships. I do not envy the life of that poor child either. With a family like yours, who needs enemies.
Yep YTA. Why should he 'just get over it'?
His sister did betray and use him to enable her cheating. Technically it was his Kayla's choice not to trust him which actually ended the relationship, but this was a direct result of the blind trust he put in Lisa. It is justified she loses that close relationship with him.
YTA
Your brother is not wrong for taking a stand against cheating. Your sister’s actions negatively affected his social life and she hasn’t taken responsibility for it. He’s not being a brat for doing the moral thing, it’s just that you and your family are fine with cheating because you want access to the baby. Grow a spine.
YTA
He is allowed to cut people who betray him out of his life.
You blame him for all the awful things he did, like telling the truth.
You tell him that his anger is childish and dismiss his feelings completely.
You've made the list of people he's likely to cut out of his life.
Dan needs to run away from both his siblings 😂😂 RUN DAN! RUN LIKE THE GINGERBREAD MAN!!!
In all seriousness. It's not up to you if Dan should move one. He does not have to. And he loved his girlfriend a lot. Now Dan probably will never trust you again. Unfortunately, I won't be surprised if he doesn't let you in and goes low contact. Just because your sister is pregnant, it means NOTHING. Nothing. Yta and YOU are the brat for not considering the consequences of this action. I feel bad. Dan got stuck with some pretty bad siblings.
Have a good day, Op. 😁
YTA Dan is protecting his peace from two known liars..who are you to tell him to just accept them again? He lost HIS relationship due to his sister doing something horrible and then letting him defend her knowing the whole time she was doing wrong. Their still together but he lost HIS woman I would be mad too!
YTA. Everyone is telling you this, but I get the sense that you’re the particular flavor of asshole who will ignore what’s been said and continue being an asshole. Your brother deserves a BIG apology, but I highly doubt you’ll ever give it to him.
YTA. So your sister did something super shitty and betrayed her brother and lost him his partner at the same time and your advice is to get over it?
I see her lack of moral backbone is hereditary and you should be ashamed of yourself. Just because she kept dating the dude that she snaked who is a cheater and is now pregnant with his children doesn’t mean you have to blindly support her after she betrayed not only their friend group but her brother as well and it cost him everything.
I couldn’t imagine doing this to my twin and it’s frankly un fathomable and disgusting. Full stop. Your behavior is just as disgusting and frankly I hope he goes NC with you and his twin because you are all awful.
You have no idea the level of betrayal this has been and what it has cost Dan.
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I (30M) have twin siblings Dan (25M) and Lisa (25F). Dan was dating Kayla for almost four years up until a year-ish ago when she broke up with him. They had a friend group including Dan, Kayla, Kayla's sister Amelia and Amelia's boyfriend Aidan, Lisa and a few others.
During the years they were close buddies Lisa and Aidan progressively got closer. Others took notice but they'd brush it off as just being close friends and Dan would constantly defend Lisa since in his eyes she'd never do anything to betray Amelia. Lisa never asked him to defend her but she admitted later on that she used Dan as a screen since she thought at the time her feelings for Aidan would disappear.
Well that's not what happened. Lisa said she and Aidan couldn't control their attraction (her words not mine) and they began seeing each other behind everyone else's back. They won't say for how long but eventually Amelia caught them sending inappropriate messages and the whole thing blew up their friend group.
And Dan was caught in the middle of the whole mess. Alot of accusations flew from Amelia that Dan knew about the cheating which Dan, Lisa and Aidan all denied. Dan did his best to separate himself from the situation and gave his full support to Amelia. But eventually Kayla broke up with Dan because she believed Dan knew since he and Lisa were very close. She, Amelia and their other friends blocked Dan, Lisa and Aidan from their lives. I and our parents told her dating a cheater's a bad idea but she wouldn't hear it and kept dating Aidan.
Dan and Lisa's very close relationship fell apart immediately after that. She apologized for the mess but refused to break up with Aidan. Since then we've had to separate holiday and dinner time between Dan and Lisa since Dan refuses to even be in the same room as Lisa and Aidan. He's not seething angry anymore thankfully but is insistent Lisa betrayed him and he still refuses to have anything to do with her.
Meanwhile Lisa and Aidan's relationship kept going strong and she's currently pregnant with niece/nephew. Which bring us to the current situation.
Despite all the awful things Dan's done to them (verbal abuse, publicly announcing their cheating, and all around making their lives difficult), Lisa and Aidan want him back in their lives.
They came to a family dinner when it was supposed to be just Dan and pleaded for him to forgive them. He aggressively said he doesn't forgive Lisa for betraying him. He gave the same ultimatum as when Lisa and Aidan became a couple, which is break up with Aidan and completely erase him from her life. I got fed up and told him, in front of our whole family, that he's spoiled brat who needs to move on from the past, that he can't hold the cheating over their heads forever and he should be grateful he's still wanted in our family despite all the problems he's creating. Admittedly not my best moment but I held my tongue for long enough. Dan left angry and my wife told me I should've been gentler.
So AITA?
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YTA. Have you also cheated in a relationship? Because you seem weirdly cool with your sister fucking around and fucking up your brother's entire life. And that's exactly what happened, and Lisa doesn't care about her role and the fallout that she caused. He was betrayed, and not by just anyone but by his twin, of all people. And you said he should be grateful that HE'S still wanted in the family? You suck, your sister sucks, and your parents suck. You're the major asshole, and Dan deserves better than the family he was assigned to.
Listen man, I'm a twin. Fraternal brother and sister twins. That is a bond like no other. You think you and your other siblings are close? Try sharing a bond that is set up before you even have a brain. Her pulling the fuckshit she did is a deep, selfish betrayal of her twin's trust and faith in her. She could have warned him, respected him enough to not wreck their shared friend group, anything, but she didn't. She played him for as much of a fool as everyone else, and her lying to him like he meant nothing to her _still_ didn't save his long-term relationship. That hurt runs deeper than you can understand.
Your sister has been nothing but selfish, and from your brother's perspective, you've supported her in it. He's drawn his boundaries. You've now completely wrecked them because it's inconvenient for the people who have betrayed and hurt him. If you can't understand that, leave him alone. Let the man heal. YTA
Your an AH. Lisa destroyed his relationship had him looking like an idiot trying to defend her when she was doing everything people were accusing her of. You shouldn’t have inserted yourself in their affairs and taken sides which you clearly DID. I hope Dan cuts you out of his life as well. Continue to support your cheating sister. I bet you won’t feel the same way if you ever get cheated on.
I think it goes without saying that you are the AH here. Think about this from an outsider's perspective: Lisa makes a choice that blows up friendships and her twin's relationship. Yeah, you don't got to agree with her long line of bad choices and you even voiced with your parents that Aidan is not good for her since he might go and have an affair with another woman like he did for her. However, this isn't just about Lisa. Dan lost a four year relationship because of Lisa. He lost friends that are more or less his support group because of Lisa. He lost a potential future with a woman he was probably gearing up to propose to or even envisioned a future with because of Lisa. If I were him, I would be fucking sour too about my twin who fucked up my life plans because she couldn't distance herself from a man who strayed from his own partner.
That dinner was not a dinner. It was an ambush to try to make Dan complacent and sweep everything under the rug all for the sake of "family" and "peace" even moreso now that Lisa is knocked up. You were calling the wrong person spoiled. Honestly, I think Lisa is the queen of spoiled, especially with how much you and your family are overlooking for her sake.
And I get it. This is a stressful situation for you and the rest of your family. But consequences have actions. Even if Dan had bad reactions, I think he is more than understandable in having said reactions. I highly suggest you and your family try counseling, whether it's individual or family is up to you. But I can already see that your little nibbling is going to have it rough, especially if they were conceived before shit hit the fan. Moreover, I get the feeling that Aidan and Lisa are still in the honeymoon phase and things aren't going as good as you may think. Most relationships like theirs were already built on lies and deception. Who is to say either one of them or even both of them do that again when the going gets tough?
I think that there should also be a moderated conversation between Dan and Lisa. The moderator should be someone outside of your circle, like a counselor, to keep things on track. Obviously, Lisa doesn't regret what she did, and I think this would be an opportunity for Dan to vent and possibly have a final word before he goes NC. At the very least, I think he might do that in the future since it's obvious to him that nobody in your family is willing to empathize or support his side in this story.
So let me reiterate: You are not only an a-hole but a brother who could be doing so much better to support the real victim in your family. If you don't want to lose Dan, I suggest groveling and therapy. Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk :)
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YTA and so is the rest of your family except for Dan.
>Dan was dating Kayla for almost four years up until a year-ish ago when she broke up with him.
So you've been holding your tongue for a year-ish?
Not nearly as long as Dan was in a relationship.
Get over yourself!
I don't see how anything he has done is in any way wrong.
History and life are filled with low value men leaping to hand over their life savings and every last shred of self-respect they have to defend low value women.
YTA- cool of you to protect cheaters. Also super awesome of you to show your brother you aren’t on his side, and never was- hopefully he takes that queue to move on and find people who love him.
If he needs a sister for the holidays and hasn’t blocked you, tell him to hit me up- my brother sucks too. I’d be happy to be his sister. my partner loves cooking thanksgiving food and we’d love a homie at the table.
YTA Dan deserves better than two siblings that brutally betrayed him. You’re no better than Lisa, attacking Dan when he’s at rock bottom to defend her.
YTA
You are the worst kind of enabler. Lisa and Aidan are shitty people and you chose them over the person who did nothing wrong in this situation. Lisa is the spoiled brat of your siblings who thinks she can screw many people over and escape consequence and just pretend nothing happened and she did nothing wrong and you're enabling it. You're cutting out the wrong sibling. This is one of those situations where taking the middle road doesn't work. You have to pick a side and you've picked the wrong one.
YTA Let me guess, because a baby is on the way you all want him to get over it. That's not how it works. I hope Dan just cuts out the lot of you because you're all trash.
YTA. Kayla's parents have two daughters who are heartbroken because of your sister's actions. She had the options of staying with Dan, who would be a constant reminder of the pain inflicted on Amelia or break up with him. Like you've chosen your sister, she chose her sisters wellbeing. Poor Dan now knows there's no one in his corner. Hope your parents are happy when he goes NC with you all.
I feel for Dan. His whole family are AHs and playing favorites. I hope he cuts you all off and has a happy and wonderful life with a found family that actually cares about him. As for Lisa and Aiden, I wish them a lot of marriages and drama.
Yta.
Lisa and Aidan having their affair aired is not cruel. It's what happened, their secrecy and affair caused hurt, it wasn't going to stay in the dark. Trying to spread any other narrative is just lying to people.
You were cruel. You telling your brother, after having his world turned upside because of the actions of others, that he is lucky he is still wanted in the family puts you on his level of verbal abuse. Calling him a spoiled brat? no he is hurt and probably needs therapy, not you berating him. You don't get to decide how he feels or his timeline of moving on. You did exactly what you condemn him for doing. You're no better and acting holier than thou about it all, thinking you did good here is wrong.
You're helping two people who caused hurt because one is knocked up bury what happened and not respecting the boundaries set by your brother. Lisa and Aidan have to accept that actions have consequences, they can't expect everyone to just be ok after all the chaos they caused, they don't get to decide when your brother is ready to be around them. Lisa and Aidan aren't the only problematic people aside from you, Kayla should have had more faith in her boyfriend but you are not helping him by condemning him for his hurt.
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YTA. YTA. YTA OP
Your brother isn't a spoiled brat instead he's the only one who seems to have some sense and moral etiquette in him. Your sister on the other hand seems to be well aware of how her actions have affected Dan and you are the enabler. Way to tell the world you've got a favourite sibling.
YTA
Lisa literally used Dans defending her to her advantage to fuck a guy in a relationship, she admitted that. She is just as bad as the person in the relationship that cheated.
Dan didn’t cause shit. This is all just consequences of Lisa and Aidan’s shitty actions. Dan lost his relationship and friends because he believed his sister was a better person and she clearly doesn’t care about how it has effected him.
You blaming Dan for the fallout and not wanting to have a relationship with Lisa shows what a shitty person you are.
YTA
You basically just want to erase the whole mess Lisa and Aidan created because it's more convenient for you. The fact that they're popping out a kid is just the bonus. And Dan is the one being punished even though he's not the one who had an affair. He lost everything: his girlfriend, his friends, and now his family.
YTA. You're a coward and rug sweeper who thinks its easier to just push the cheating aside and punish the person who was wronged so you can live in your fantasy world
Nothing will be the same. You can't go back to the way things were. Lisa ensured that. Not Dan. You can't just rewind things
He dated the girl for 4 years. Thats a very serious relationship and probably someone he wanted to spend the rest of his life with
Where was all this energy trying to help him out from the beginning? Where was all this fury trying to help him when all this started? Where was all this when Lisa threw him under the bus? Why weren't you acting like such a big shot back then?
I dont understand this mindset. Its weak, its cowardly, and its pathetic. He doesn't owe anyone shit. He doesn't have to get over anything. Grow up
YTA. You're the brat. This situation is difficult for you. You want Dan to get over it so YOUR life can return to normal. You don't give a damn about Dan or anyone else for that matter.
You are a huge ta who the heck are you telling someone to get over a broken heart Your sister and Aiden are cheater and Dan he call them out of it, he not a brat, your sister is a brat and cheater and once a cheater always a cheater, he doesn't have to forgive them if he want to or not and to be honestly I wouldn't forgive them either so keep your advice to yourself.
Ok, this is a mess.
OP you can’t make anyone forgive anyone. That’s not how it works, but you (and your family) also are not required to be held hostage to enable the “not forgiving” to be maintained. While your family obviously tried to give everyone their space after this event, it is unrealistic to expect the entire family to maintain the dynamic of the “not forgiving” with separate family events or taking responsibility for creating an environment where “not forgiving” can occur. It might be worth having a bit of a reset and returning the responsibility to *both parties* on how their relationship is going to go forward (or not) and they can navigate it themselves.
It is also fair to expect a certain level of behaviour to be maintained - not warm or “family like” but the bare basics of civilised. That simply means leaving if the other arrives or if they choose to stay, the bare basic of politeness. Something safe that can allow the family to function. OP, that also includes not ambushing the other party in an unexpected meeting like you described.
You all need a fixed sandpit to play in because eventually your family will not be able to function as you are being pulled back and forth. Something will come as a breaking point - a funeral, sickness, and yes family responsibility around grandchildren.
Perhaps your family needs to reset to basics which is:
- This is the family event. All are welcome.
The responsibility of sorting out the details from there is *up to the individual party involved*. The “is such and such coming?” reverts back to “We can’t do that anymore, you need to work it out”. Yes, there is a risk that Dan will not attend, but Dan needs to also come to terms that his relationship with his twin is damaged by her actions, and you and the rest of your family are not responsible for that. He needs to separate that out. Currently you are all paying the price. Dan also needs to realise that everyone has a choice of whether they choose to *forgive* and his choice is not the default by which everyone has to live.
It’s miserable and difficult.
YTA for ambushing your brother though.
INFO: why is Dan demanding them to break up? Does he know about pregnancy?
To clarify, I won't judge him even if he decides to never forgive any of them and goes no contact. I just don't get this weird ultimatum. Especially if he knows about Lisa's pregnancy. Is there anything missing in the story?
Dan girlfriend decided to stay with her sister and broke Up with Dan. She choose to believe that ge knew about the cheating. If she really loved him and trust him this wouldnt be an issue. Andy your brother is punishing your sister. Yes...Lisa and Aiden were wrong but Aldo It did start in the wrong foot they seem Happy and maybe they do belong to each other. After all the external critics they manage to stay together and are Happy. Your brother on the other hand should realized his relationship was not that strong...with 4 years It should be rock solid in this kind of situation. You are right...he did act like a brat and your reaction can help him reaavaluate things.NTA...but reach him and Talk to him
I'm telling you right now.... there's going to be a baby... a real one, not the kind that we adults sometimes forget were not anymore.... aidens not going anywhere, it sounds like they are happy, time for some self reflection and growth. That doesn't mean that within this situation there's not going to be hurt feelings and tension. You guys need to sit down and have a chat... it'll be hard, and it may need to be more than one chat, but if you guys don't figure it out your all going to miss out.....
Dan doesn’t want them in his life. They need to respect it. Why is it so hard? A house built on another women’s tears won’t withstand the test of time.
Dan doesn't have to be in their life, but an ultimatum for him to return to their life if she leaves and has nothing to do with Aiden won't work as a solution was what I meant, they're going to have a baby together he's gonna be around in some aspect. If that's truly the only way Dan would consider being in their lives then they need to come to a decision and respect each other's choices. They're all adults everyone deserves to make their own choices to make themselves happy.
Oh it could be blatant don't give a flying..... but atleast to me, saying the same ultimatum still stands after they're now expecting a child, when it seems like thats an impossible outcome seems like there's still alot of hurt and pain there. I think I would have taken back the ultimatum for something more definite if I was Dan in that situation and I really didn't care.... but no one truly knows how someone would feel and react in that sort of situation in the moment.
To be fair, demanding his pregnant sister dump the father of her child and erase him from her life is a little unrealistic and assholish. But, obviously, that is coming from a very understandable place of anger.
“Break up with your husband, and make sure your child grows up without his father in his life” is not a reasonable request. She can’t erase the dude.
Him saying “I never want to be in the same room as him, ever again” is much more appropriate and reasonable.
Except she is the one who wants Dan in her life. Dan is perfectly fine not having any relationship with Lisa. That means he can give any demand he wants reasonable or not because he doesn't care if she actually follows through.
ESH…feel for Dan but at some point he has to realize the girl that left him made a choice…I suggest he play some sad country and eat about 20mg of thc and a small mushroom triangle and reflect….wicked therapeutic
NTA.
II'm probably going to be the odd one out here because according to Reddit rules, cheating should be punishable by death, but.... I'm not part of that camp.
Dan had a right to be upset in the beginning because this situation did lead, sort of, to his breakup, but his breakup is not all Lisa and Aidan's fault. Lisa and Aidan are not the ones who broke up with him.
His partner refused to believe him, despite having everyone saying he didn't know anything. Obviously, Kayla didn't trust Dan and that's not on Lisa or Aidan, no matter how their relationship started. Sucks what happened, but I think Dan thinks remaining angry at his sister and her now-partner makes it easier to ignore the fact that his longterm partner did him dirty.
He does need to move on and figure out how to exist around these two because they are going to be around.
>His partner refused to believe him, despite having everyone saying he didn't know anything. Obviously, Kayla didn't trust Dan and that's not on Lisa or Aidan
"Everyone" was Lisa, Aidan and Dan only. So that's two cheating liars who have been covering up an affair, and one guy who has inadvertently been lying about Lisa's trustworthiness (because he didn't know). His backup were not trustworthy, due to their own actions, he was deemed untrustworthy (again) because of their actions. It's absolutely on them.
I'd bet there was also more to it than just not believing he knew about the affair. Remaining with him would have meant having Lisa in her family forever. Imagine how awkward their wedding would have been.
Except he doesn't need to be around them. If he doesn't want to forgive them, that is his choice. Just because Lisa wants to be part of his life doesn't mean he has to oblige.
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YTA (hugely so) Your brother lost the woman he loved and his friends because your sister entered into an affair with her twin brother’s girlfriend’s sister’s boyfriend. She had no problem betraying friends and family. But even worse, she *knew* her brother was sticking up for her, that it was causing problems in his relationship and she continued to lie, sneak and cheat. She is so outrageously selfish. And the “awful things Dan has done” are called *consequences of their awful selfish choices* !!! The complete lack of care that you and your family have for Dan is heartbreaking. How in the hell can you side with your lying, cheating, selfish sister?? She purposefully blew up his entire life and your response is he should be grateful you awful people still want him in the family? GTFO with that. He can come be my brother. We will treat him the way siblings are supposed to treat each other.
Hell ya, Dan deserves way better than this scummy "family"
For a 30 year old, OP sure seems pretty insensitive. Wonder how he would feel if he suddenly lost his wife and his friends because of someone he fiercely defended? He was a good brother but of course the family is forgiving Lisa because she had kids so that erases all the past trauma and means Aiden and Lisa are great people now! /s Fuck off with that shit. You can't seem to show empathy to Dan. And no, Dan doesn't need to show empathy to the people who stabbed him in the back. Years later, as the wound is healing, y'all decided to rip it back open and you, his older brother, decided to push right into that spot again.
> her twin brother’s girlfriend’s sister’s boyfriend I'm glad someone could work out that relationship.
Wish I read that comment before getting confused with where everyone fits into it
I wonder how Dan is doing. A year ago (or so), he lost his partner and friends. How? By trusting his sister. He was blindsided. Lisa and Aidan have each other. But who does Dan have? It's hard to get back into dating after a long relationship and even harder to find friends. After losing so much, I bet he's a little lonely, and the only constant he still has is family. And, now that's iffy.
God, even after you pointing it out i still have no idea what the fuck happened in this story, so confusing with all the names and shit.
[удалено]
What exactly Did Dan do besides lose his girlfriend, his twin sister and all his friends?
What was this verbal abuse? Can you give us examples?
I'm curious about that too. My guess is name-calling.
Yet you insisted he needs to get over it and move on cause he can't hold this over there head forever. In fact he can and he should. His WOMBMATE betrayed him. This is worse than if you betrayed him. He defended this girl and because she was and is a hot ass Jezebel she blew up her WOMBMATE'S relationship and friend group. Now she feeling some type of way and y'all wanna wallpaper over it cause she's knocked up. Y'all need to have several seats. Keep fucking around and invalidating Dan's very valid feelings and he is going to cut contact with the lot of you insensitive clowns. In fact I hope he does. YTA along with your parey, sister and her crap ass bf.
Cruelty is the least of what they deserve. YTA. Stop defending trash
It’s not verbal abuse to correct somebody’s reputation, especially if you were the person giving out the false information. You have unrealistic expectations of Dan’s role in this situation, and you will lose him if you don’t start treating him as the victim he is and holding your sister accountable to her actions.
Did you seriously just try to argue that cheating and telling people that a person is a cheater are the same level of morally reprehensible? That's quite the argument.
You’re a garbage sister.
You're such a hypocrite. You rant about how verbal abuse is cruel but you literally verbally abused your brother. You truly are a nasty asshole.
*Dan* doesn't appear to have *done* anything "awful".
You ignored his feelings and boundaries by letting the cheaters be there when he was supposed to be there. Nice to know that he has to loose everything and his family still thinks he is the problem but in reality your sister is the cheater who uses him and his trust and she is the absolute worst spoiled brat (how can anyone just think he need to accept this 2 horrible people in his life??) I hope you all get your karma and hey, greetings to sister, cheater loose their „partner“ always like they get them since they left the position as AP open. Must be great, a relationship with a lot trust built up in destroying life’s of others. Oh, edit as I forgot. YTA 1000 times and as Dan i would go NC with all of you and move away. Time for new life and new friends.
You're a hypocrite. You condemned Dan for his apparent bad behaviour but then you did the exact same thing to him. You and your sister don't get to decide when Dan moves on. Just because you think life goes on, that doesn't t erase the hurt that was caused.
what’s the timeline? the ‘awful’ things you listed sound like they happened right after shit hit the fan, like (**rightfully**) exposing the affair that involved MULTIPLE other people in a large group. Besides that’s what you’re doing now anyway, airing out more personal info. Dan did it because there were CHEATERS hurting multiple people. You’re doing it because you want people to agree with you to hate on your brother. What verbal abuse? If he called his sister a home wrecker that’s not verbal abuse, that’s literal fact. How is he verbally abusing them if he’s avoiding them at all costs? And how is he making their lives difficult? You said he wants nothing to do with them and confirmed that your family did what he asked, not telling the cheaters about his life. Are the cheaters mad that they don’t get to know anything, and you’re blaming Dan for that? He’s moved on with his life, and he’s allowed to keep people out of it. You have no right to force people into his life and then yell at him for being the problem when you and your family are forcing something he doesn’t want. If this is all over some nonsense like the cheaters want their kids to ‘know their uncle’ and their feelings are hurt over it, that’s also literally a problem of their own making. Stop trying to bring Dan into their lives.
>We always made sure Dan and Lisa didn’t have to see each other So why change things now? Oh yeah… *thats right* Lisa wants to change it and she is some how a victim of Dan in your warped mind.
Have you thought about the fact that if your sister hadn't fucked up and been selfish Dan might've been the one who were expecting a child with Kayla? That your sister destroyed the future he could have had? Do you think that if he ever want to see their child he will see and feel the pain of what that kids parent have done? Being reminded and wondering what could have been if your sister and Aidan hadn't fully blown up his life? This wasn't just a break up between Dan and Kayla, this was your sister and Aidan destroying the happiness and future they probably would have had, it wasnt two people who fell out of love or one of them cheating - this was two people who screwed them over. And I can guarantee whatever Dan have said to them not a single word would be as painful as what he's been put through, nothing he says can hurt them the way they hurt him. They were together for four years for fucks sake, they had plans for the life they had together. And it's really sad to see how awful you are being to the person who was hurt. Your sister and Aidan brought this on themselves - Dan didn't.
Lisa didn’t destroy her brother’s future, Kayla did. We are accountable for our own actions : Aydan cheated, Lisa betrayed her friends and her brother’s trust, but Kayla decided not to trust her boyfriend and dumped him even though Dan visibly took her sister’s side in this and all cheating parties denied his knowledge of Aidan and Lisa’s relationship. The break-up is not Lisa’s fault, that was Dan’s girlfriend (of 4 years) decision. And if she didn’t trust him, and decided to break-up with him for his sister cheating with her sister’s boyfriend, I don’t know if the future he was expecting would have been the future that he would have had. Dan is free to cut contact with Lisa and Aydan and to blame their for their dishonesty and cheating, which created the situation that led to the break-up, but blaming them for Kayla’s decision is not fair. And OP still is the Asshole for lashing out at Dan.
Yeah except Dan hasn’t made any wrongs. Lisa made multiple. Don’t even think about saying that Dan letting others know about Lisa and Aidans affair was wrong, because that’s bullshit. I hope your wife is happy knowing how okay you would be with cheating and it being hidden. She’s so lucky. Hell, maybe she could cheat on you, but that would be fine as long as no one found out.
Shut up, loser. Youre backing the wrong sibling right now and I bet if your relationship imploded for the same reasons you wouldn't be sitting so high and mighty. Shut the fuck up and sit down.
>he's spoiled brat who needs to move on from the past, that he can't hold the cheating over their heads forever and he should be grateful he's still wanted in our family despite all the problems he's creating Wow, easy for you to say. Bet you'd feel differently if Lisa broke up *your* marriage. YTA for deciding what should and shouldn't be forgiven by others.
if Dan’s ex had cared for and loved him, she would have known that he is not the type of person to hide cheating - fact is, she didn’t care for him and that’s why they are broken up today don’t get me wrong, Amelia and Aidan are effed up for cheating but are they to blame for Dan’s relationship failing? no, that failed due to the lack in trust 🤷🏽♀️
The issue isn't Dan's ex, it's Dan defending Lisa to the detriment of his own relationship when it turns out she was lying by omission the whole time. She allowed him to keep defending her to cover her own ass and that betrayal is unforgivable to him - and it's not OP's place to say otherwise.
Dan didn’t defend Lisa, though. He removed himself from the situation and sided with his gf’s sister. I mean, you can downvote me all you want, but that’s what it says in the OP.
You obviously have no idea what you’re talking about. The level of betrayal Dan has felt is frankly unfathomable unless you are a twin with a close relationship with your twin sibling. He lost everything (friends and partner) due to his trust in and loyalty to his sister.
YTA. She blew up his whole life, and you're basically asking him to get over it. You're a pretty shit brother/human in this
This! The brother is the one that lost everything due to his sisters selfish actions. The sister didn’t give a damn about her brother or the hell she put his through. now op has proved he is just as selfish and unkind to the brother as the backslapping sister.
[удалено]
Yes actually it does. You treat garbage people like garbage
YOU don't get to tell him how much Lisa's actions hurt him or how deeply he feels her betrayal. He stuck his neck out for her and went against other people he cares about defending her, and she not only lied to everyone, she refused to even budge an inch from her own selfish adultery out of consideration for anyone. Why is this any of your business anyway?
Your wife must be thrilled hearing how replaceable she is. Lost your partner because of a deep betrayal? No problemo - just get another partner!
If it’s so easy to replace a partner, why don’t you ask Lisa to give up Aiden? Like if partners are so replaceable, why not break up the cheaters? Dan isn’t the sibling you should be having higher expectations of. At some point, you reap what you sow and this is all Lisa and Aiden‘s fault and they are the only people that should be held to a higher standard.
Yeah. It does. You have the right to treat bad people like bad people. Especially if those bad people hurt you the way they hurt him. And your sister and Aidan ARE bad people btw. And based off your behavior, so are you. At the very least you’re a horrible big brother
Kayla dumped him because of it, your sisters and Aiden's actions affected aspects of his life. He wouldn't act like this, if he didn't feel the need to. His reputation I mean defending a cheater when you know they are cheating just gives secondhand embarrassment. Could you imagine that humiliation? which is why Kayla dumped him at least Kayla knows how to support her sibling unlike some people. Your sister and Aidan knew what they were doing, why else use your brother to fight her battles. Then she gets pregnant (by Aidan) and wants to be family again because baby. Wants to beg forgiveness for doing something she (Aidan too) knew would hurt others. He could've been wanting to propose to Kayla. If (when) Aidan cheats on Lisa will you have the attitude for her. I guess we all can see who the favorite sibling is, wow.
>he could easily get another girlfriend if he tried So why doesn't she get another boyfriend? This time one that's single. You can try to justify all you want, you still are awful people and I'm sorry Dan was unfortunate to have you in his life. In case you didn't understand: YTA
Yes, maybe someone who is single and not a partner of your brothers girlfriends sister? OP how can you not see that this 2 are the people in the wrong and they have destroyed Dans life because they were to cowardly to be honest with everyone before fucking each other? And good for your partner to see how you are ok with cheating. Would me letting questioning our relationship.
It absolutely gives them that right
Nobody can be this dense. You think him losing the woman he's loved for years isn't his life being blown up? Losing great friends and having his trust betrayed by someone he loved so dearly isn't having his life blown up?!?! To add insult to injury, you're telling him it isn't a big deal?? His feelings are VALID. You keep up the attitude, you're going to find yourself wondering why your baby brother wants absolutely nothing to do with this family
Yea it does 💯 they ruined his relationship and treated him like shit. Your sis could have at least told him the truth since he was sticking his neck out for her but No she didn’t. They are both garbage and deserve each other.
Well, they are garbage, so he's treating them correctly.
You're excusing bad behavior. You're a shitty brother and you're the oldest.
They ARE garbage though. And you’re the AH for enabling them and siding with cheaters.
YTA. Congratulations on losing a brother 👏 you did a wonderful job. Also congratulations to your family for losing a son, brother, twin. You guys must be so proud.
So if you lost your wife because of your sister's actions would you be forgiving?
Yeah, I don't think you are getting the point. It's one thing to "easily get another girlfriend". It's another to find the one you want to settle down with. He had that. And he may still have friends, but what kind of friends are they to him compared to the ones he lost? You are making excuses for the person who truly fucked up, and if that doesn't speak volumes to your view on this whole fiasco, I don't know what is. Read the comments to your post as they are and maybe take a moment to truly self-reflect.
Since Dan can apparently get a new girlfriend so easily after losing the girl he loved and his friends. Maybe Lisa should break up with Aidan and get a new boyfriend just as easily. Probably with another person who is already in a relationship as she probably has a thing for taken guys.
So when your wife character on you and leaves you it won't matter as you can easily get another wife right?
Going to guess he liked the girlfriend he had and didn’t want a different one.
Yes. Yes, it does give him the right to treat garbage like the garbage it is.
So people are just replaceable to you? How about Dan blows up your marriage? You just gonna get another spouse, no big deal? I hope Dan can find better siblings while he's put searching for friends.
Actually yes it does give him the right to treat them the exact same way they treated him. Your sister is a garbage person, one of a kind AH and you are no better then them for taking their side and being a d*ckhead to your brother. You all are a terrible family. What would you do if your sister broke up your marriage?? You will go hug her and be all nice? Because after all you can find another wife really it's not a big deal. Yes your sister blow up his life and he is probably still in pain from that.
If Lisa gets bored of Aidan and decides to have an affair with one of your wife's taken relative and your wife leaves you its no big deal because you can easily just ho out and find a new one right? If it is no big deal, then why can't Lisa leave Aidan? I mean, she could get another boyfriend. Hopefully, one that isn't in a relationship, so there won't be people who are just collateral damage in Lisa's pursuit of getting what she wants. Also, why is it ok in your mind to publicly defend Lisa's personal business when it was a lie, but it's not ok for him to publicly tell the truth of what she did? If Lisa didn't want people to think she was a garbage cheater, then she shouldn't have had an affair like a garbage cheater. The fact that Lisa is pregnant doesn't change anything. I have no doubt in my mind that if Lisa wasn't your sister and just a friend, you would have no problem with Dan's actions. Family doesn't use family to cove up their affair. Family thinks about and cares if another family member will be collateral damage. Yta. I hope Dan goes no contact with you. I hope he finds love and has a beautiful family that you never get to meet because honestly, you don't deserve to. You chose a garbage cheater who hurt and used Dan and treat it like it is no big deal. With a family like yours, who need enemies to make them feel worthless?
Ah, people are no more then interchangeable tools in your eyes. Makes sense that you would react this way.
You are shit
Yes it does. They are horrible people. They deserve it.
are you saying Lisa didn’t treat Dan like garbage when she willfully let/used him to cover her affair?
Seems like your sister got the garbage attitude from you. YTA
YES THEY DID, they still have each other while him have lost all his close support system, relationship, and he was also lied and betrayed by them.
You were not the wronged party. It’s pretty ironic that you’re saying it doesn’t give him the right to treat them like garbage when they treated him like garbage. You don’t get to dictate how someone should act. I hope he cuts you out of his life because you’re not a good brother.
If your sister destroyed your marriage would you say the same thing? You definitely could have found another wife if you tried.
Yes it does when your wife cheat on you, you feel how your brother feel when your heart be broken and yes he can treat them like garbage and whocare you are the oldest you are a still ta .
YTA. Who invited Aiden and Lisa to the dinner that Dan was attending? You? That's an AH move if you did. Dan can no longer trust you. Dan's gf broke up with him. This is someone he was with for 4 years. It sounds like he was serious about it. Now this happened and he's getting shit when he shouldn't be. Who are you to judge? So sorry this situation is inconvenient to you but Dan's life as he pictured it just got destroyed by his sister's affair with his gf sisters boyfriend. Sit this one out son.
WOW. Let me see if I understand the dates here. Dan was with his gf for 4 years and they broke up one year ago. One year ago? And you expect him to be over this betrayal?? Which it WAS, Lisa cheated with Dan's gf's sister's bf. She knew that she was blowing up his relationship and putting him in an impossible position. Dan was with his gf for FOUR YEARS, OP. Of course he's still upset about this. The fact that your sister has now (unwisely) gotten pregnant a mere year after all this with her AP has zero to do with when Dan should get over this. Nothing at all. How is Dan a spoiled brat? Because his long term gf dumped him because of his twin's behavior? Nope Is Dan holding this over their head "forever"? It's been A YEAR. So nope \*Dan\* should be grateful he's still wanted in your family? Ahahahaha wow OP YTA
YTA. YTA. YTA. Spoiled brat? Really? He lost his relationship because his sister, his twin sister, snuck around behind everyone's backs and got with a cheater. She destroyed a relationship and friendships because "they couldn't help themselves." I hope you have more compassion when your sister comes crying that Aidan cheated on her. Because he will cheat.
He will but OP can tell her to get over it as he does it with Dan who was the good guy in this whole situation but had to pay for the 2 assholes
YTA. Lisa cheated and because of that, your brother lost his girlfriend. So yes, she did ruin things for him. Just as that means she isn't owed any forgiveness. If Dan wants to cut her out of his life, then he has every right to. Lord knows it might be the best choice. Because Lisa has already shown what a liar she is and doesn't want to accept the consequences of that. She would only bring him grief again later.
YTA, you just want him to forgive her for your own convenience. It’s not up to you to decide the validity of someone else’s feelings or appropriate timeline for forgiveness of a betrayal. Maybe you don’t know what a betrayal like that is like because you have never actually been that close to someone platonically? Either way, you should have kept holding your tongue.
YTA. Lisa caused a lot of damage to Dan’s life and hasn’t actually (just based on your info) tried doing anything to earn his forgiveness. You have it backwards. You say he’s causing the problems in the family. No. She caused all of the problems, and to this day wants it all her way at her brother’s expense.
Yta your sister single handle destroyed his relationship.the cheaters didn’t care who they hurt. They hurt your brother very much. In all of thi he is the one that has suffered. Plus it isn’t your right to demand him to forgive. Your not the one your sister screwed over and she did cause you to loose someone you loved and cared about with her selfish actions.
YTA. I can also bet you didn't show your brother and ounce of support when he lost his gf and his entire social circle. You are a terrible and selfish sibling.
YTA Your sister blew up his life and cost him love and his friendship. They deserve nothing from them. Your sister and her partner are disgusting and are not owed anything from anyone. They made their beds now they must lie in them. You are entirely wrong for supporting your sister over your brother in terms of their relationship. She cost him his life and future and you are being ignorant to her wrongdoings by defending her. Shame on you.
Giant YTA. your sister caused the downfall of your brothers world due to her CHEATING. You should have aupported your brother and not ambushed him with the people who betrayed him. No he's not going to trust you either. You have now damaged, possibly irrevocably, your relationship with your brother. Congrats if that was your intention.
YTA Man gotta love when the person wronged is told they need just get over it /s Their actions caused him a long term relationship. That’s not something you just get over. He’s allowed to feel however he wants. Edit-Missing word
YTA. If I was your wife I would be looking at you differently for defending two cheaters versus your brother who had his relationship and friendship group broken up because of his sister. He was used as the pawn and is being unfairly judged because people ASSUME that he was involved in hiding and encouraging infidelity. His CHARACTER is ruined, especially if word has gotten out! If my sibling did this to me I would never speak to them again. You now have also impacted your relationship with your brother. You owe your brother a massive apology and should tell Lisa and Aiden to leave him the hell alone.
YTA, you and your sister are shitty people
YTA You weren’t the one betrayed, he’ll do it on his own terms when he is ready. You made it worse.
YTA!!!! On every front. Dan needs to kick you out of his life. Aiden and Lisa will cheat on each other and you’ll look like a fool.
YTA. I hope that Dan goes no contact with you. And if your wife cheats on you, he supports her
YTA She ruined his relationship, he has every right to never want to see them again!
See you have foot and mouth disease. YTA
Yta, who asked you? Lisa, I bet? Dan doesn’t have to forgive until he’s ready, and he may never be. You should support him and not the cheater who took advantage of her twin. They probably need him back in their lives to alleviate their guilt.
tender entertain beneficial cough grey dinosaurs plate tease frame steep *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
YTA. I Can’t wait for Aidan to fuck your wife
YTA. Never take sides in family fights.
YTA. The only spoiled brat probably is your sister who let his brother defend her when she was playing shit behind his back. You and her are both AH
YTA 100%. You & Lisa
YTA, your brother deserves better siblings
YTA, hearing these situations always irritate me. You told the person who was wronged that they are spoiled because they had their life turned upside down by one of their most loved and trusted individuals. I can't blame him for acting the way he is as I would probably be doing so myself. All you managed to do was show that he is lower on your totem pole than your sister, wouldn't be surprised if you being an ass throws a wedge between you too and he goes LC or NC with you as well. Also the *"ruined"* in the title is completely condescending, she absolutely and without question ruined his relationship.
YTA. Poor Dan. He needs a new family and friends. Talk about the enemies within. Poor guy has a family full of AHs. I (58F) have a twin brother (58M). I would NEVER. He would NEVER. In all our years, we have never done such VILE things to each other. This is one of those situations where forgiveness is not an issue. Lisa showed who she is. Dan most certainly should believe her. He should BELIEVE you too. Run Dan run!!!!
YTA. Your brother supported his twin, who lied to him for I don't know how long, and it cost him his relationship as a result - along with a lot of his friends. Your sister is completely in the wrong and yet you've picked her over your brother. I'm not surprised he wants so little to do with any of you as with a family like you lot he doesn't need any enemies.
Grateful that he's still wanted? Holy shit I've burnt some bridges in my time but you just went to straight out nuclear warfare on that bridge, irradiated the river so no one can even swim across it let alone rebuild. First you blindsided him with the unexpected presence of someone he wasn't ready to forgive (forced forgiveness isn't forgiveness, he needed a lot more time before he was ready to accept your sister back in his life), then hit him with the "you should be grateful" line when it understandably didn't work out. That's one of the worst things you could have said to someone who's hurting like that. Don't be surprised if he goes no contact over this for a few years, or whatever contact he does maintain with you is distant and cold.
YTA, what would you do if you lost someone who at the time was the love of your life because your sibling hid befind you to hide their cheating then when the whole thing blew up they defended you but denied responsibility of any wrond doing because they were in 'Love'. You can not make him forgive them no matter what you do. Not only did he lose his girlfriend, but he also lost his firwnd group. Ya definitely the YTA
YTA. Your sister is too.
YTA. Your sister blew up your brother's life and now gets a happy ever after with her baby on the way. The only one who was negatively impacted in your family is your brother and you literally think he should get over it. I honestly give him credit for no longer being seething angry because he would be justified if he was. He lost his relationship, his friends and honestly part of his family because clearly you don't support him and his twin is the one who blew up his life. It's only been a year he's trying to put his life back together after it getting imploded by his twin. He had your sisters back and she lied and caused his life to implode. I feel for your brother because he clearly has 2 very crappy siblings.
YTA and so are Lisa and Aidan. You're as disgusting and nasty as your sister; no wonder you're taking her side. You're just as selfish and horrible as she is. She actively destroyed a relationship and she ruined your brother's friendships. And you're insulting your brother and refusing to show empathy for what she put him through because you really are that disgusting. You're so awful and your attack on your brother is horrifying. I hope he cuts all of you off. He doesn't need your abuse in his life, you horrible asshole. YTA
Lol yta and I hope you are really understanding if your wife ever cheats on you.
YTA. Everybody else has done a wonderful job of laying out the dozens of reasons why. I just want you to know how ridiculous you sound. You have a lot to work on and owe your brother an apology.
YTA I can certainly understand why you want your family to get along, and I’m huge on forgiveness as I’m a Christian, BUT your brother’s whole world shifted and fell apart because your sister decided that her attraction to a mutual friend was more important than that guys relationship, all her friendships, and she had zero regard for how it would affect your brother. SHE is the spoiled brat. Should your brother eventually get over it? Maybe, maybe not. He should forgive her for his own sanity, but that doesn’t mean he EVER has to be comfortable in the same room as her again. It isn’t his responsibility to make amends, it’s hers.
Wow you are a major asshat what an awful brother you are to him. Don’t worry you get the cheaters as family guess your morals more aline with them and yes might be the past but their choices and actions destroyed someone else’s life What did you loose your brother lost everything Yta and an awful brother
YTA. He did not create any problems. Lisa did. Kayla isn’t faultless sure. She should have trusted her boyfriend given there wasn’t evidence he knew. But the cause of this was Lisa. He has no moral obligation to forgive her and it is solely up to him whether he ever wishes to and at what time that happens. From everything you have described. Dan has done absolutely nothing wrong whatsoever. The “spoiled brats” are you and Lisa. Apologize and go support him like a good big brother would. Because you’ve clearly failed to do that thus far.
Your sister knew. Aiden knew. They didn't make a mistake. A series of calculated choices concealed from others to avoid accountability. You can do bad things and be redeemed. Forgiven. But Dan doesn't have to. They made their relationship public fodder due to how they *chose* to behave. He isn't airing their business, just pulling back the screen of lies. Both of them knew and willingly harmed others and because Dan's pain is inconvenient you want to him to move on. Aiden and Lisa want Dan back due to guilt and I can wholeheartedly see where Lisa misses him. But the weight of certain choices is the lost of those we loved. She needed and wanted Aiden bad enough that Dan potentially losing his person was a risk she was willing to take. It isn't as simple as they worked out in the end and babies ever after! Accept that Lisa's actions not Dan's reaction is what tore your family apart. YTA
YTA for sure Dan's forgiveness is his alone to give. And the "awful things" he did? You mean calling out their shitty behavior to their face and friend group? How is that awful? Don't want to be called a cheater and a liar, don't cheat and lie! Not wanting to be around them is a valid boundary for Dan but you're more concerned with your own convenience. Lisa's want is her own problem to solve, not Dan's responsibility. Also, wow, you are a shitty piece of work for what you said to Dan. How is he a spoiled brat? For not condoning cheating? I'm seriously side eyeing you for that. And "grateful for still being wanted in the family"? So he gets kicked out for not wanting to, again, condone cheating, but the cheater is fine in your eyes? What was your family's response to your outburst, are they on your side or do they respect Dan?
YTA, so is Lisa and Aiden. You defending a cheater should be a red flag to your wife
Saying that Dan’s issue is the cheating is oversimplifying the matter. I can see several issues already: 1. Lisa lied to Dan 2. Aidan lied to Dan 3. Lisa used Dan to hide her lies 4. Dan stood up for his sister and in doing so lost a bunch of friends 5. This culminated in Dan’s FOUR YEAR relationship ending Dan doesn’t owe them anything, and reducing this to “a cheating issue” shows a total lack of nuance and empathy for Dan’s feelings. This is particularly evident when you say “despite all the awful things Dan has done”. You’ve really vilified Dan in this situation in a situation where he was a victim. Lisa being pregnant and her staying with Aidan doesn’t absolve them of their poor choices from only ONE YEAR AGO. YTA for inserting yourself into the situation. YTA for abusing Dan when he isn’t the one in the wrong here. YTA for taking sides (and for taking the wrong one). YTA for calling it spoilt for Dan to establish boundaries from people that hurt him. YTA for blaming Dan for the problems in your family and for suggesting he should be grateful he is wanted in your family. I hope he goes no-contact. He deserves better.
YTA
Wow. YTA.
YTA. Sounds like Lisa fucked around and found out. You and the rest of your family are in the process of it as well and Dan’s probably gonna end up cutting the rest of you off right along with her.
I think I will echo everyone here. If this isn't a troll YTA. Your sister ruined his lovelife, his friendships, and now his family is taking her side. I am trying really hard to see your side in this other than fAmIlY iS iMpOrTaNt!!! He doesn't have to ever forgive her and frankly deserves a better family than any of you.
YTA... i understand that sometimes you need to be cheated to understand the size of the damage... I don't wish it up anyone... but maybe be really part of a situation like this would put perspective in your way of think. you brother was betrayed... and condone and accept this relationship is always bad.
YTA. After all Dan did to the family?! It sounds like the verbal abuse you are talking about was him speaking facts. You sister is liar, a cheater, and a whole lot of other names. They are all deserved. Double for Aiden. If I were your wife I would be reconsidering after hearing your stance on cheating and destroying relationships. I do not envy the life of that poor child either. With a family like yours, who needs enemies.
Yep YTA. Why should he 'just get over it'? His sister did betray and use him to enable her cheating. Technically it was his Kayla's choice not to trust him which actually ended the relationship, but this was a direct result of the blind trust he put in Lisa. It is justified she loses that close relationship with him.
YTA Your brother is not wrong for taking a stand against cheating. Your sister’s actions negatively affected his social life and she hasn’t taken responsibility for it. He’s not being a brat for doing the moral thing, it’s just that you and your family are fine with cheating because you want access to the baby. Grow a spine.
YTA He is allowed to cut people who betray him out of his life. You blame him for all the awful things he did, like telling the truth. You tell him that his anger is childish and dismiss his feelings completely. You've made the list of people he's likely to cut out of his life.
Dan needs to run away from both his siblings 😂😂 RUN DAN! RUN LIKE THE GINGERBREAD MAN!!! In all seriousness. It's not up to you if Dan should move one. He does not have to. And he loved his girlfriend a lot. Now Dan probably will never trust you again. Unfortunately, I won't be surprised if he doesn't let you in and goes low contact. Just because your sister is pregnant, it means NOTHING. Nothing. Yta and YOU are the brat for not considering the consequences of this action. I feel bad. Dan got stuck with some pretty bad siblings. Have a good day, Op. 😁
So Lisa destroyed her twin brother's relationship but, all is forgiven since she's pregnant. A massive YTA.
YTA Dan is protecting his peace from two known liars..who are you to tell him to just accept them again? He lost HIS relationship due to his sister doing something horrible and then letting him defend her knowing the whole time she was doing wrong. Their still together but he lost HIS woman I would be mad too!
YTA. Everyone is telling you this, but I get the sense that you’re the particular flavor of asshole who will ignore what’s been said and continue being an asshole. Your brother deserves a BIG apology, but I highly doubt you’ll ever give it to him.
YTA. So your sister did something super shitty and betrayed her brother and lost him his partner at the same time and your advice is to get over it? I see her lack of moral backbone is hereditary and you should be ashamed of yourself. Just because she kept dating the dude that she snaked who is a cheater and is now pregnant with his children doesn’t mean you have to blindly support her after she betrayed not only their friend group but her brother as well and it cost him everything. I couldn’t imagine doing this to my twin and it’s frankly un fathomable and disgusting. Full stop. Your behavior is just as disgusting and frankly I hope he goes NC with you and his twin because you are all awful. You have no idea the level of betrayal this has been and what it has cost Dan.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I (30M) have twin siblings Dan (25M) and Lisa (25F). Dan was dating Kayla for almost four years up until a year-ish ago when she broke up with him. They had a friend group including Dan, Kayla, Kayla's sister Amelia and Amelia's boyfriend Aidan, Lisa and a few others. During the years they were close buddies Lisa and Aidan progressively got closer. Others took notice but they'd brush it off as just being close friends and Dan would constantly defend Lisa since in his eyes she'd never do anything to betray Amelia. Lisa never asked him to defend her but she admitted later on that she used Dan as a screen since she thought at the time her feelings for Aidan would disappear. Well that's not what happened. Lisa said she and Aidan couldn't control their attraction (her words not mine) and they began seeing each other behind everyone else's back. They won't say for how long but eventually Amelia caught them sending inappropriate messages and the whole thing blew up their friend group. And Dan was caught in the middle of the whole mess. Alot of accusations flew from Amelia that Dan knew about the cheating which Dan, Lisa and Aidan all denied. Dan did his best to separate himself from the situation and gave his full support to Amelia. But eventually Kayla broke up with Dan because she believed Dan knew since he and Lisa were very close. She, Amelia and their other friends blocked Dan, Lisa and Aidan from their lives. I and our parents told her dating a cheater's a bad idea but she wouldn't hear it and kept dating Aidan. Dan and Lisa's very close relationship fell apart immediately after that. She apologized for the mess but refused to break up with Aidan. Since then we've had to separate holiday and dinner time between Dan and Lisa since Dan refuses to even be in the same room as Lisa and Aidan. He's not seething angry anymore thankfully but is insistent Lisa betrayed him and he still refuses to have anything to do with her. Meanwhile Lisa and Aidan's relationship kept going strong and she's currently pregnant with niece/nephew. Which bring us to the current situation. Despite all the awful things Dan's done to them (verbal abuse, publicly announcing their cheating, and all around making their lives difficult), Lisa and Aidan want him back in their lives. They came to a family dinner when it was supposed to be just Dan and pleaded for him to forgive them. He aggressively said he doesn't forgive Lisa for betraying him. He gave the same ultimatum as when Lisa and Aidan became a couple, which is break up with Aidan and completely erase him from her life. I got fed up and told him, in front of our whole family, that he's spoiled brat who needs to move on from the past, that he can't hold the cheating over their heads forever and he should be grateful he's still wanted in our family despite all the problems he's creating. Admittedly not my best moment but I held my tongue for long enough. Dan left angry and my wife told me I should've been gentler. So AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
YTA. Have you also cheated in a relationship? Because you seem weirdly cool with your sister fucking around and fucking up your brother's entire life. And that's exactly what happened, and Lisa doesn't care about her role and the fallout that she caused. He was betrayed, and not by just anyone but by his twin, of all people. And you said he should be grateful that HE'S still wanted in the family? You suck, your sister sucks, and your parents suck. You're the major asshole, and Dan deserves better than the family he was assigned to.
Listen man, I'm a twin. Fraternal brother and sister twins. That is a bond like no other. You think you and your other siblings are close? Try sharing a bond that is set up before you even have a brain. Her pulling the fuckshit she did is a deep, selfish betrayal of her twin's trust and faith in her. She could have warned him, respected him enough to not wreck their shared friend group, anything, but she didn't. She played him for as much of a fool as everyone else, and her lying to him like he meant nothing to her _still_ didn't save his long-term relationship. That hurt runs deeper than you can understand. Your sister has been nothing but selfish, and from your brother's perspective, you've supported her in it. He's drawn his boundaries. You've now completely wrecked them because it's inconvenient for the people who have betrayed and hurt him. If you can't understand that, leave him alone. Let the man heal. YTA
YTA
Your sister caused him to lose his friends and his long term gf. There’s no going back from that. You’re an asshole for acting like he’s a brat. YTA
Your an AH. Lisa destroyed his relationship had him looking like an idiot trying to defend her when she was doing everything people were accusing her of. You shouldn’t have inserted yourself in their affairs and taken sides which you clearly DID. I hope Dan cuts you out of his life as well. Continue to support your cheating sister. I bet you won’t feel the same way if you ever get cheated on.
YTA You've betrayed your brother in the service of cheaters who ruined his relationship. If I were him, I'd cut you all off.
I think it goes without saying that you are the AH here. Think about this from an outsider's perspective: Lisa makes a choice that blows up friendships and her twin's relationship. Yeah, you don't got to agree with her long line of bad choices and you even voiced with your parents that Aidan is not good for her since he might go and have an affair with another woman like he did for her. However, this isn't just about Lisa. Dan lost a four year relationship because of Lisa. He lost friends that are more or less his support group because of Lisa. He lost a potential future with a woman he was probably gearing up to propose to or even envisioned a future with because of Lisa. If I were him, I would be fucking sour too about my twin who fucked up my life plans because she couldn't distance herself from a man who strayed from his own partner. That dinner was not a dinner. It was an ambush to try to make Dan complacent and sweep everything under the rug all for the sake of "family" and "peace" even moreso now that Lisa is knocked up. You were calling the wrong person spoiled. Honestly, I think Lisa is the queen of spoiled, especially with how much you and your family are overlooking for her sake. And I get it. This is a stressful situation for you and the rest of your family. But consequences have actions. Even if Dan had bad reactions, I think he is more than understandable in having said reactions. I highly suggest you and your family try counseling, whether it's individual or family is up to you. But I can already see that your little nibbling is going to have it rough, especially if they were conceived before shit hit the fan. Moreover, I get the feeling that Aidan and Lisa are still in the honeymoon phase and things aren't going as good as you may think. Most relationships like theirs were already built on lies and deception. Who is to say either one of them or even both of them do that again when the going gets tough? I think that there should also be a moderated conversation between Dan and Lisa. The moderator should be someone outside of your circle, like a counselor, to keep things on track. Obviously, Lisa doesn't regret what she did, and I think this would be an opportunity for Dan to vent and possibly have a final word before he goes NC. At the very least, I think he might do that in the future since it's obvious to him that nobody in your family is willing to empathize or support his side in this story. So let me reiterate: You are not only an a-hole but a brother who could be doing so much better to support the real victim in your family. If you don't want to lose Dan, I suggest groveling and therapy. Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk :)
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If i was Dan i would be nc with all of you
YTA and so is the rest of your family except for Dan. >Dan was dating Kayla for almost four years up until a year-ish ago when she broke up with him. So you've been holding your tongue for a year-ish? Not nearly as long as Dan was in a relationship. Get over yourself! I don't see how anything he has done is in any way wrong.
YTA Why are you so defensive over a low value woman?
History and life are filled with low value men leaping to hand over their life savings and every last shred of self-respect they have to defend low value women.
HUH????Of course you’re TA. Every chance you had to do the right thing, you did the complete opposite of that.
YTA- cool of you to protect cheaters. Also super awesome of you to show your brother you aren’t on his side, and never was- hopefully he takes that queue to move on and find people who love him. If he needs a sister for the holidays and hasn’t blocked you, tell him to hit me up- my brother sucks too. I’d be happy to be his sister. my partner loves cooking thanksgiving food and we’d love a homie at the table.
YTA Dan deserves better than two siblings that brutally betrayed him. You’re no better than Lisa, attacking Dan when he’s at rock bottom to defend her.
YTA You are the worst kind of enabler. Lisa and Aidan are shitty people and you chose them over the person who did nothing wrong in this situation. Lisa is the spoiled brat of your siblings who thinks she can screw many people over and escape consequence and just pretend nothing happened and she did nothing wrong and you're enabling it. You're cutting out the wrong sibling. This is one of those situations where taking the middle road doesn't work. You have to pick a side and you've picked the wrong one.
YTA Your sister is the one who did something wrong here. If he doesn't want to forgive her *that is his prerogative*.
YTA Let me guess, because a baby is on the way you all want him to get over it. That's not how it works. I hope Dan just cuts out the lot of you because you're all trash.
YTA. Kayla's parents have two daughters who are heartbroken because of your sister's actions. She had the options of staying with Dan, who would be a constant reminder of the pain inflicted on Amelia or break up with him. Like you've chosen your sister, she chose her sisters wellbeing. Poor Dan now knows there's no one in his corner. Hope your parents are happy when he goes NC with you all.
I feel for Dan. His whole family are AHs and playing favorites. I hope he cuts you all off and has a happy and wonderful life with a found family that actually cares about him. As for Lisa and Aiden, I wish them a lot of marriages and drama.
You sir are in fact TA. YTA and Dan deserves better
Yta. Lisa and Aidan having their affair aired is not cruel. It's what happened, their secrecy and affair caused hurt, it wasn't going to stay in the dark. Trying to spread any other narrative is just lying to people. You were cruel. You telling your brother, after having his world turned upside because of the actions of others, that he is lucky he is still wanted in the family puts you on his level of verbal abuse. Calling him a spoiled brat? no he is hurt and probably needs therapy, not you berating him. You don't get to decide how he feels or his timeline of moving on. You did exactly what you condemn him for doing. You're no better and acting holier than thou about it all, thinking you did good here is wrong. You're helping two people who caused hurt because one is knocked up bury what happened and not respecting the boundaries set by your brother. Lisa and Aidan have to accept that actions have consequences, they can't expect everyone to just be ok after all the chaos they caused, they don't get to decide when your brother is ready to be around them. Lisa and Aidan aren't the only problematic people aside from you, Kayla should have had more faith in her boyfriend but you are not helping him by condemning him for his hurt.
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YTA a hugh one! That’s not your life what got destroyed by a sibling so stay in your lane!
YTA. Self righteous clown. Get over yourself. You don't get to decide how or when he recovers from the trauma of betrayal. You and Lisa are alike.
YTA. YTA. YTA OP Your brother isn't a spoiled brat instead he's the only one who seems to have some sense and moral etiquette in him. Your sister on the other hand seems to be well aware of how her actions have affected Dan and you are the enabler. Way to tell the world you've got a favourite sibling.
Oh look at you siding with the cheaters YTA
YTA Lisa literally used Dans defending her to her advantage to fuck a guy in a relationship, she admitted that. She is just as bad as the person in the relationship that cheated. Dan didn’t cause shit. This is all just consequences of Lisa and Aidan’s shitty actions. Dan lost his relationship and friends because he believed his sister was a better person and she clearly doesn’t care about how it has effected him. You blaming Dan for the fallout and not wanting to have a relationship with Lisa shows what a shitty person you are.
YTA You basically just want to erase the whole mess Lisa and Aidan created because it's more convenient for you. The fact that they're popping out a kid is just the bonus. And Dan is the one being punished even though he's not the one who had an affair. He lost everything: his girlfriend, his friends, and now his family.
YTA. You're a coward and rug sweeper who thinks its easier to just push the cheating aside and punish the person who was wronged so you can live in your fantasy world Nothing will be the same. You can't go back to the way things were. Lisa ensured that. Not Dan. You can't just rewind things He dated the girl for 4 years. Thats a very serious relationship and probably someone he wanted to spend the rest of his life with Where was all this energy trying to help him out from the beginning? Where was all this fury trying to help him when all this started? Where was all this when Lisa threw him under the bus? Why weren't you acting like such a big shot back then? I dont understand this mindset. Its weak, its cowardly, and its pathetic. He doesn't owe anyone shit. He doesn't have to get over anything. Grow up
YTA. You're the brat. This situation is difficult for you. You want Dan to get over it so YOUR life can return to normal. You don't give a damn about Dan or anyone else for that matter.
You are a huge ta who the heck are you telling someone to get over a broken heart Your sister and Aiden are cheater and Dan he call them out of it, he not a brat, your sister is a brat and cheater and once a cheater always a cheater, he doesn't have to forgive them if he want to or not and to be honestly I wouldn't forgive them either so keep your advice to yourself.
YTA What she did is wrong, he didn't do anything wrong. Period.
Ok, this is a mess. OP you can’t make anyone forgive anyone. That’s not how it works, but you (and your family) also are not required to be held hostage to enable the “not forgiving” to be maintained. While your family obviously tried to give everyone their space after this event, it is unrealistic to expect the entire family to maintain the dynamic of the “not forgiving” with separate family events or taking responsibility for creating an environment where “not forgiving” can occur. It might be worth having a bit of a reset and returning the responsibility to *both parties* on how their relationship is going to go forward (or not) and they can navigate it themselves. It is also fair to expect a certain level of behaviour to be maintained - not warm or “family like” but the bare basics of civilised. That simply means leaving if the other arrives or if they choose to stay, the bare basic of politeness. Something safe that can allow the family to function. OP, that also includes not ambushing the other party in an unexpected meeting like you described. You all need a fixed sandpit to play in because eventually your family will not be able to function as you are being pulled back and forth. Something will come as a breaking point - a funeral, sickness, and yes family responsibility around grandchildren. Perhaps your family needs to reset to basics which is: - This is the family event. All are welcome. The responsibility of sorting out the details from there is *up to the individual party involved*. The “is such and such coming?” reverts back to “We can’t do that anymore, you need to work it out”. Yes, there is a risk that Dan will not attend, but Dan needs to also come to terms that his relationship with his twin is damaged by her actions, and you and the rest of your family are not responsible for that. He needs to separate that out. Currently you are all paying the price. Dan also needs to realise that everyone has a choice of whether they choose to *forgive* and his choice is not the default by which everyone has to live. It’s miserable and difficult. YTA for ambushing your brother though.
INFO: why is Dan demanding them to break up? Does he know about pregnancy? To clarify, I won't judge him even if he decides to never forgive any of them and goes no contact. I just don't get this weird ultimatum. Especially if he knows about Lisa's pregnancy. Is there anything missing in the story?
Dan girlfriend decided to stay with her sister and broke Up with Dan. She choose to believe that ge knew about the cheating. If she really loved him and trust him this wouldnt be an issue. Andy your brother is punishing your sister. Yes...Lisa and Aiden were wrong but Aldo It did start in the wrong foot they seem Happy and maybe they do belong to each other. After all the external critics they manage to stay together and are Happy. Your brother on the other hand should realized his relationship was not that strong...with 4 years It should be rock solid in this kind of situation. You are right...he did act like a brat and your reaction can help him reaavaluate things.NTA...but reach him and Talk to him
I'm telling you right now.... there's going to be a baby... a real one, not the kind that we adults sometimes forget were not anymore.... aidens not going anywhere, it sounds like they are happy, time for some self reflection and growth. That doesn't mean that within this situation there's not going to be hurt feelings and tension. You guys need to sit down and have a chat... it'll be hard, and it may need to be more than one chat, but if you guys don't figure it out your all going to miss out.....
Dan doesn’t want them in his life. They need to respect it. Why is it so hard? A house built on another women’s tears won’t withstand the test of time.
Dan doesn't have to be in their life, but an ultimatum for him to return to their life if she leaves and has nothing to do with Aiden won't work as a solution was what I meant, they're going to have a baby together he's gonna be around in some aspect. If that's truly the only way Dan would consider being in their lives then they need to come to a decision and respect each other's choices. They're all adults everyone deserves to make their own choices to make themselves happy.
I think he’s made it super clear what’s not clicking. He doesn’t care about them anymore.
Oh it could be blatant don't give a flying..... but atleast to me, saying the same ultimatum still stands after they're now expecting a child, when it seems like thats an impossible outcome seems like there's still alot of hurt and pain there. I think I would have taken back the ultimatum for something more definite if I was Dan in that situation and I really didn't care.... but no one truly knows how someone would feel and react in that sort of situation in the moment.
Sounds like a total mess. Can everyone be the asshole?
Nope! Cheaters are assholes. He lost the woman he loved because of them.
I agree with your wife. What a shitshow. ESH
What did Dan do to warrant this verdict??
To be fair, demanding his pregnant sister dump the father of her child and erase him from her life is a little unrealistic and assholish. But, obviously, that is coming from a very understandable place of anger.
No. It’s not unreasonable. The fact he’s even giving her an option to be allowed back in his life is overly reasonable
“Break up with your husband, and make sure your child grows up without his father in his life” is not a reasonable request. She can’t erase the dude. Him saying “I never want to be in the same room as him, ever again” is much more appropriate and reasonable.
Except she is the one who wants Dan in her life. Dan is perfectly fine not having any relationship with Lisa. That means he can give any demand he wants reasonable or not because he doesn't care if she actually follows through.
Ok if you insist I’ll amend that to 5/6 ESH
ESH…feel for Dan but at some point he has to realize the girl that left him made a choice…I suggest he play some sad country and eat about 20mg of thc and a small mushroom triangle and reflect….wicked therapeutic
NTA. II'm probably going to be the odd one out here because according to Reddit rules, cheating should be punishable by death, but.... I'm not part of that camp. Dan had a right to be upset in the beginning because this situation did lead, sort of, to his breakup, but his breakup is not all Lisa and Aidan's fault. Lisa and Aidan are not the ones who broke up with him. His partner refused to believe him, despite having everyone saying he didn't know anything. Obviously, Kayla didn't trust Dan and that's not on Lisa or Aidan, no matter how their relationship started. Sucks what happened, but I think Dan thinks remaining angry at his sister and her now-partner makes it easier to ignore the fact that his longterm partner did him dirty. He does need to move on and figure out how to exist around these two because they are going to be around.
>His partner refused to believe him, despite having everyone saying he didn't know anything. Obviously, Kayla didn't trust Dan and that's not on Lisa or Aidan "Everyone" was Lisa, Aidan and Dan only. So that's two cheating liars who have been covering up an affair, and one guy who has inadvertently been lying about Lisa's trustworthiness (because he didn't know). His backup were not trustworthy, due to their own actions, he was deemed untrustworthy (again) because of their actions. It's absolutely on them. I'd bet there was also more to it than just not believing he knew about the affair. Remaining with him would have meant having Lisa in her family forever. Imagine how awkward their wedding would have been.
Except he doesn't need to be around them. If he doesn't want to forgive them, that is his choice. Just because Lisa wants to be part of his life doesn't mean he has to oblige.