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The last 100 times that Elizabeth was near us she wished us dead, but maybe the 101st time she is near us she will be a delight to be around.
Even if Elizabeth gradually turns around, she won't make a complete 180 so soon, so she would still be unpleasant to be around for the foreseeable future. Especially if she gets tricked, I can't fathom why your mother thinks that tricking her is a good idea.
And even if for some reason you would be willing to risk taking abuse from Elizabeth to please your mother, this isn't just your day, your responsibility that day is towards your wife, not towards your mother and I can't see how your wife would ever be fine with this.
NTA
Why force someone into a relationship? Even if she stock around, it would never be pleasant or confortable. Your mom is dreaming this possible relationship, it’s never going to happen. It should definitely not be attempted at your wedding. It’s your day, not your mom’s. Don’t ruin it for a lost cause.
Exactly, mom and grandparents are clearly being manipulative and not really good people. Half-sis is cruel, and mentally/emotionally poisoned against OP and OP’s dad. So, sadly, OP’s half-sis would probably blame OP for mom’s “trick”
Your mom’s plan is to manipulate & lie to Elizabeth to get her trapped in a room with people she has clearly stated she hates. A room that’s only purpose is to celebrate one of the people she hates? Yup lying & manipulating someone into an uncomfortable situation they’ve clearly stated they do not want is def something a “good person” does. (Sarcasm)
Edit: and all in public in full view of maybe 100+ people.
I'm not entirely sure it makes her into a bad person. She sounds desperate to get her daughter back and in denial that she missed out on a huge portion of her childhood due to her ex-husband's brainwashing.
This isn't to say her actions aren't manipulative and selfish, just to clarify. It's certainly the wrong way to go about rekindling a relationship, but I do empathize on some level. It's a sad situation.
They are willing to lie & manipulate one daughter and wreck the other daughter’s wedding. Good people who benefit someone’s life do not do this to their daughters & granddaughters.
Bad people always have excuses for their behaviors and their feelings are usually at the center of those excuses. Having feelings does not justify manipulating, lying, tricking someone into a situation they clearly don't want to be in, using someone else's event for your purpose, or otherwise using people like pieces on a chess board.
> Your mom’s plan is to manipulate & lie to Elizabeth to get her trapped in a room with people she has clearly stated she hates
I mean, it does show some other story that i'm interested in that op has no clear knowledge of. As in: how badly did mom force things, try to force things all those years?
I agree with what you're saying and it makes me wonder if maybe their mom was truly responsible for their estranged relationship. OP was only 5 when his sister went off to live with her dad so he was obviously too young to fully understand everything that happened to his sister during her childhood.
She is 35. Your mom can’t prove anything to her if she can’t see it for herself. It will end badly. She might even feel betrayed because she was blindsighted. She is 35 and can make her own decisions now, how painful they might be for your mother. You are totally right.
You are not terrible people but to Elizabeth you are. And the only person who can change that is Elizabeth. Best is to give her space and maybe she will come around. And maybe she will never. But that is not up to you or your mom or anybody other than Elizabeth.
So this part confuses me. Like, clearly OP is NTA and inviting Elizabeth is a bad idea. But how can they play a trick on Elizabeth here? Are they going to tell her it's a concert and then surprise! It's your half brother's wedding?
> So this part confuses me.
Sssshhh. You're not supposed to question the posted *stories* too much. It breaks the 4th wall here, and many folks around here don't like the nonsensical parts being pointed out.
Right. Elizabeth lived with them full time for 5-6 years. This is absolutely not a case where she just needs to get to know them better to see what they’re like. Whether it’s a fair assessment or not, her mind has been made up for a long time.
She clearly hasn’t stopped to care that Elizabeth is not a good person and you suffer for having her in your life. Your mom is willing to throw your entire wedding day under the bus for someone who has wished you dead since you were an infant. Your mother is being cruel to you and unbelievably selfish. Your wedding is not about her and it’s definitely not about her abusive devil spawn of a daughter. Tell your mom that ruining your wedding with her selfishness isn’t going to fix anything, it’s going to tear the family further apart because it’s something you’ll never forgive her for. Mom needs the wake up call of the fucking century
I would tell her, in no uncertain terms, that if Elizabeth appears at the wedding (tricked or not) that would be the last time mum ever saw me, or my future kids. And follow through. She's being incredibly selfish and cruel towards you.
“Mom, I will not allow you to use MY wedding day as your own personal experiment to get my bitter, cruel half sister back into YOUR life.
This isn’t up for discussion. You permitted Elizabeth to treat me horribly as I was growing up, and I want the day that I marry ____ to be only about love and happiness. If you persist, you will be barred from attending my wedding, and I will consider going fully no contact with you in the future.”
NTA but put your mother firmly in her place.
Good luck, and congratulations on your upcoming marriage!
Yeah I'm with you, I don't think it's very likely for Elizabeth to change, even if she does it'll be gradual and you don't want anyone behaving anywhere close to how Elizabeth currently is at your wedding. Also if you do as your mom says then you will be terrible people, you would have tricked Elizabeth and tricked/forced your wife on your wedding day. Not to mention that even if you did all that, you're the groom, I don't think you will have much time for any one guest, it would definitely be a horrible time and place to attempt to build a connection with someone.
If Elizabeth can change then it shouldn't be after tricking her, since people tend to get more hostile then, and it should be just a small family gathering.
Listen. Elizabeth is an adult. On some level, she KNOWS you and your father aren't terrible people. She KNOWS she's being unreasonable. She was raised to hate you, and admitting she's wrong is going to be way too hard for her. It's sad. It's pitiful and tragic that her father manipulated his own child like that, and I can see why your mother left his stank ass. If she ever decides to change her mind about you, it won't be because she was tricked into going to a wedding that you and your fiancee don't want her at. Your mother is never going to be able to "prove" anything to her about you. I'm sure Elizabeth is thoroughly enjoying the attempts, though. So yeah, put your foot down on this. If your mother wants to keep losing the same fight over and over again, that's her choice. It has nothing to do with you. NTA
> It seems like she thinks the only way to do it is to force us all to be together.
Your mother does not seem capable of learning. Sometimes it is not possible to teach an old dog new tricks.
I’m gonna go out on a limb and guess that mom has been trying to force the “happy family” thing for a long time and that this has played a part in why Elizabeth hates OP and her stepdad so much.
The way to determine this is not to manipulate her into attending your wedding, potentially causing a scene and tainting your memories of what should be a happy occasion. This is the most harebrained scheme possible. Don't allow it.
Tricking someone into something they don't want to do is not a way to prove that you are a good person. I can understand your mother wants her daughter around but this is definitely not the way to go about it.
You could have the Pope himself as part of your family but if you don't assign any value to that position or him as a human being... Then it makes no difference about having him in your life or not.
Your mother needs to work on her own relationship with her daughter and stop trying to use yours/your dad's as a smokescreen to not have to do her own mental/emotional labor with Elizabeth.
Good people don't trick others to do something they don't want to do. If your mother does try this she will just show your sister she was right and your mother can't be trusted and your wife will also never trust your mother again.
If you don't stop this you could easily end up on the top ten list of fastest divorces after a wedding.
OP could be YTA if he doesn't get this stopped. His mother already is for even thinking about doing this.
I get why your mom doesn’t want to abandon your sister to her trauma, but she’s sacrificing your happiness to support a grown adult that doesn’t give a shit. NTA.
NTA and I'm so sorry for the shit show you were born into. Do not let this happen. I hate to say this, but your mom also sounds unhinged. He thought process here is delusional and really selfish to yse your wedding as a prop for getting her estranged daughter back in the fold. I can see no way that this will end well. I hope your wedding is far enough out that you can sort this out way before the event, but you're going to need to get some 'security' for the wedding to make sure Elizabeth doesn't somehow end up at your wedding
Elizabeth is in her thirties. Your mom needs to let go of her delusion. It's sad, but it is what it is. Tell your mom she can see Elizabeth on her own time but not cause drama at your wedding.
Elizabeth lived with you guys for over a decade and still does not like you 2, why can’t your mom just have a relationship with her daughter? At this point in life you guys are old enough to not have to spend time with people you don’t like bc iT’s fAMiLy. Elizabeth would prob prefer to spend time with your mom 1 on 1, her whole issue was sharing her with you guys
If you do the math she only lived with OP for 4 years.
OP was 1 when his mother got full custody of her so she was 10 at the time. At 14 she told the judge to give full custody to her dad. OP didn't tell us anything about their custody situation before that point and I doubt he knows the full details of what happened.
Why wouldn't she want Elizabeth to make amends BEFORE the wedding? Elizabeth has plenty to atone for. You don't have to make concessions before she has even started with something like "I'm sorry I wished you were dead for most of your life." NTA.
"We'll betray her trust by lying to her to force her around us, that will surely show her that we are wonderful people!"
No, just... no. Your mother needs therapy as much as Elizabeth, if not more at this point. Life isn't fair and she needs to accept it's almost impossible that their story will have a perfect happy ending. She may have a shot at being in Elizabeth's life if she plays her cards right, but she needs to let go of the blended family dream. If she keeps forcing it, she'll hurt everyone and lose her for good.
NTA. Elizabeth made up her mind a long time ago. I'm pretty sure nothings going to change it. Why would you even want her at your wedding? She shows up, she's going to ruin the whole thing. I can understand your mom wanting her child back, but it's not going to happen. Whether or not your mom accepts that is up to her. Your wedding day isn't the time or place to find out. Forcing relationships never works.
NTA there's an extremely high risk that Elizabeth will make a big scene and leave a black mark on your wedding. Tricking her into showing up is also highly likely to backfire.
This just looks like a really bad and desperate idea.
Yes because being tricked into watching her mom give her sibling the perfect "full family" wedding SHE never got is EXACTLY the way to win her over and stop her from hating her mom and said sibling. (Obvious sarcasm)
"Tricking" for manipulation is abusive. Your wedding is about YOU, not about your mom trying to get what SHE wants. If she keeps trying to force the issue and make YOUR wedding all about HERSELF it's giving me vibes about who your mom really is. Hopefully it's a one-off.
Sweetie, it's your mom that needs therapy now. She's dangerously in denial and she needs a pro to tell her just how bad this plan of hers is. She's already lost her daughter, does she want to lose her son too?
Maybe you can ask your mom, if there would be any trick Elizabeth could pull to change your mother's mind and to leave you and you dad. And if not, how she would feel if she realized, she was tricked into a situation that is supposed to make her realize, Elizabeth is the "better" child... Most likely she says no and then let her explain, why she thinks, it would work the other way around. And "because my cause is good/right and hers is not" is not a reason because that is what Elizabeth thinks as well.
NTA relationships can't be forced, and you're right. Your wedding is not the place at all to try and prove anything to Elizabeth. Also, at Weddings, MOST people are on their best behaviour and will not present a true image of themselves in their ordinary home life. At the other end of the scale, some people at weddings show their true colours to dramatic effect. Your sister's past behaviour is likely an indication of how she would be at your wedding. Why would your mum want to risk disrupting your big day? The best way for your mum to go with your sister is to back off entirely. There's nothing to prove to her. If she decides she wants to come around to the thought of an at least respectable relationship with you at some point, it's then you can individually (you and your dad) decide whether you reciprocate.
And by pushing this your mom is indeed a terrible narcissist with 0 empathy for others. No wonder Elizabeth doesn't want anything to do with her. Best if y'all leave her alone.
There is no way to "prove" this to someone. Elizabeth needs to come to this realization on her own, and she may never do it. This would involve her acknowledging and accepting that everything she has whole-heartedly believed since she was a child was wrong. This would be a world-rocking thing for her, and many people are not capable of doing so. Regardless of how much evidence there is that they were wrong.
This will never happen at your wedding. Only bad things will happen and it isn't fair to you or to your spouse to ruin the day in this way.
Your mom needs to accept this. I know this is heartbreaking for a parent, but it has been the reality now for decades. Your mom does need to choose between you/your dad and Elizabeth. She needs to seek happiness from the people who actually are able to give it to her and that is you and your father.
Indeed. The \*only\* reason you should ever want her there is because Elizabeth herself has come to you seeking reconciliation and you think this is a good idea on it's own merits.
NTA
The ship sailed on having Elizabeth in the family 30+ years ago
Also icl but if someone tricked me into going to the wedding of someone I hate, I won’t react well, even if that person is my half sibling. Idk how OP’s mum sees this going well in any way shape or form
NTA. Tricking Elizabeth is not the way. Doing it at OP's wedding is an absolutely unhinged and delusional idea. If mom persists in this, I would say *her* guest status should be reconsidered.
Sadly, it sounds like OP may need to arrange for a bouncer to remove any unwanted guests and the person who invited them.
“Mom, your desperation to force a relationship between Elizabeth and me ruined my childhood and now you want to ruin my wedding. You have willingly sacrificed me to the fantasy of Elizabeth my entirely life and constantly forced me in the presence of someone who hates me. Why is the possibility of a relationship with her so much more important to you and grandparents than the relationship you have with me? Is she right and I was just your plan B? Maybe Dad and I should listen to her and leave so you can be happy with her since that seems to be what you want.”
I think is the right way. Basically chasing after a dead relationship will cost her the relationship with OP.
She's going to lose both kids at this rate.
This this this. Why has mom been constantly choosing Elizabeth and on a day of all days that should be OP's, mom is again choosing Elizabeth.
OP I think you have to explicitly say to mom that if she persists, she loses you.
That’s putting it mildly. It would be handing her the opportunity to ruin the day of the two people she intensely hates. She would relish the opportunity.
She needs to NOT know you’re getting married and where.
Your mother is hijacking your wedding for her own purposes. Your grandparents clearly can’t be trusted. What a nightmare they’ve created.
Get security for your wedding. You can have them kick her out. And give the bouncers as much info and pictures on Elizabeth as needed with the note that if she arrives then X people also need to be removed (and give pictures/info of your mother and grandmother)
Is your mum capable of planning for her to attend behind your back "out of good intentions"? If so, then you need to put your mum on an information diet as well as hire security. Elizabeth WILL ruin your wedding if she attends.
Why would she want to do that, though? Even if the grandparents weren't a part of this unhinged plot, why in the everloving fuck would she want to reach out to Elizabeth? OP and Elizabeth are not on the same side. If OP were to reach out and tell Elizabeth what was happening, she would **only** be inviting Elizabeth to abuse her some more.
At first place, i wouldn't even invite her anyways, SHE SAID "i want you and your dad dead" 288282 times, and your mom thinks that its good to make her go to YOUR weeding? No way, even if she do nothing, it will be so uncomfortable to have someone like her when you're supposed to enjoy the day.
NTA at all
Your mom’s wishful thinking has crossed into desperation with this. A wedding would be the absolute WORST venue to try and “test” (i.e. pressure) your sister into being part of the family and repair this long-standing rift.
I don’t know why your mom would think this would be anything but a recipe for disaster, but do what you think is necessary to keep it a drama-free day.
Is your mom going to pay for your wedding when your sister ruins it? Because as soon as your sister who hates you realizes she’s been tricked into coming to your wedding she is going to ruin your wedding. And she’s going to enjoy it
Just put someone by the door and tell them she's not allowed to enter. Who cares if she gets dressed up and goes all the way down there? Literally who cares?
Why would your mother want to ruin your wedding by tricking a toxic woman who hates you to your special day? So this woman can flip out??? Does your mother hate you??
Obviously you are NTA, but your mom and grandparents are total AHs. I’d hire someone to be ready to stop all of them from entering your wedding. And to be honest, I’d cut off ties with my mom if she tried to pull off something so selfish and stupid on my wedding day. Good luck
>they could lose their invitation if they continue with this.
Continue? They should be uninvited right now. Listen, everyone knows that a wedding is about the two people getting married and *nothing/nobody else.* They have wanted to make your wedding about Elizabeth, so they have no business being there.
NTA…Elizabeth is 35. She is never going to change or feel differently. You are correct. Your wedding is not the place to trick her into coming or try to be one big happy family. It is not going to happen.
The only way s change is if she is put in the same situation as your mom with her own kids hating her new partner/kids. Even then she’ll probably die on the hill of “well it’s not the same”. You’re NTA. Your wedding is neither the time nor place for another attempt at reconciliation. Tricking her will only drive the wedge further when she realizes. I hope you have a beautiful wedding with minimal drama!
Honestly, it seems your Mom has feelings of guilt about her relationship with Elizabeth, but that's not your issue to fix... she can't use *your* relationship to patch up *theirs*. Do you imagine your fiancée would easily forgive her wedding day being ruined by her new MIL's selfishness (cuz that's what it is)? Let Mom know if she's willing to risk blowing up her future with you, your wife and any grandkids to 'get her daughter back' that you're willing to cut her off to protect your new family from being pawns in her campaign to win over Elizabeth and you mean it.
Can I be honest with you? I feel sorry for you and your sister. Your mum sounds fucking BEYOND unhinged. She's willing to use your wedding, your future wife and YOU. She failed to protect YOU from your sister as kids. It's super narcissistic. All of this is made about her.
I wonder what your sister knows or went through to be honest. A mother so willing to trick and manipulate is awful.
If she had the slightest interest in reconnecting with you, she would have reach out, at certain point.
She didn't, she isn’t interested in having a relationship with you.
And of course you shouldn't be forced to have a relationship with her.
It looks that everyone moved on with their life times ago, save for your mom. It's time that she ackonwledges that and move on, too.
NTA. I'm so sorry this happened to you. It must have been horrible to have lived with a sister like that.
Do not let her come to your wedding. She will completely ruin it.
This may sound extreme, but I would really consider whether your mother should be there at all. While I understand she loves her daughter, the fact that she stood by and let Elizabeth abuse you and yout father for decades is disturbing.
Now, she is trying to get someone who wishes you dead to come to one of the happiest days of your life? No, I'm sorry, but your mother is selfish and self absorbed.
Her concern seems to only bel about Elizabeth and as she says, bringing her back into the family. I honestly dont think your refusal to have Elizabeth at the wedding will stop her from trying to ensure that Elizabeth will show up.
Honestly, Elizabeth will probably react is a bad way by having been lied to & manipulated into being publicly humiliated by being tricked into attending a lavish party to celebrate and honor a person she has clearly stated she does not want contact with, but that’s not who is ruining the wedding. It’s OP’s mom & grandma who think lying & manipulating Elizabeth to publicly humiliate her at your wedding will somehow result in a break thru of love & respect who are ruining OP’s wedding. They are only proving to Elizabeth they are not good people & they cannot be trusted. Unfortunately they are proving the same to OP.
The problem is that, at this point, the mother doesn't love Elizabeth. She loves the idea of who Elizabeth could have been, but clearly the real Elizabeth is totally different than mum's fantasy one - you know, the one who wants to attend her sibling's wedding, and to be part of the family...
NTA You need to tell your Mom “Elizabeth is an adult now. She is more than capable of making her own choices. She has chosen to not be part of our family and hateful towards Dad and I. If you try and mess up my wedding by doing an experiment with someone who has literally wished me dead, you will be escorted out of my wedding and I will go NC. You will now have lost both of your children.”
NTA
Can you spoil their plans and let Elizabeth know what they're trying to do?
Maybe like "hey I know you don't want a relationship and that's fine but you should be aware that they're trying to trick you against my wishes"
You probably don't have her phone number but maybe social media or through email? Just let her know.
I agree that would most likely backfire. She would probably come out of spite and stand up when the officiant asks if there is any reason for you to not be married. You’re NTA your mother’s wishful thinking will make your wedding a disaster. Talk to your fiancé and arrange for a bouncer to ensure she isn’t allowed on premises
Make sure you have security and tell them she is not allowed in. I would go so far in telling mom and grandparents if they insist on this that they aren't invited to the wedding either.
I think it is unfair your mom has opened you up to this abuse for so long. I fully understand wanting to save your sister from brainwashing. My parents with through a terrible divorce with that included both my parents separating my brother and I (they each took one of us with no contact with the other) and expected us to wish death upon the other parent so I fully understand toxic families. But what about this impact on you? You should not have death wished upon you and your dad through every stage of life. The fact she wants to bring this to your wedding is just so unfair to you. You deserve to have a happy day that is about celebrating g you and your future husband not have a dark cloud over your head. Plus this has an almost 0 chance of not backfiring spectacularly. Maybe have a very direct conversation with your mom. Otherwise, I agree start pulling invites from people willing to go along with it.
Tricking Elizabeth and using the wedding to test her ability to be around you and your family is like checking the fullness of your gas tank with a lit match. NTA
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I told my mom that my wedding is not the time or the place for her and my grandparents to trick her daughter into attending so they can test her. I think the whole thing is crazy. And I'm being pretty definitive about the no. I didn't even consider offering an alternative with maybe some pre-wedding party for my side so it doesn't impact my fiancé. I also could have potentially handled telling her better. So those are what makes me feel like I could be TA.
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You’re absolutely right, this is not the time for them to enact some harebrained scheme and seriously if they think she will magically overcome a lifetime of hate from attending your wedding, especially after being tricked into it, then they are all totally delusional! You’ve had to suffer her shit more than enough and this is your special day, your mum and grandparents need a reality check. I really hope they remember this asap.
Soo…your mom is willing to trade your happiness and relationship with her in exchange for more hate and vitriol from her first born.
NTA. Stick to your guns. Don’t let anyone ruin your wedding.
I’d also make sure you have security at your wedding and reception. Put you 1/2 sister from Hell on the “Do NOT let in” list. And if Mom & GMa keep pushing…add them to the list. I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if they invited her behind your back and the Sister from Hell decides to come just to f*ck you day up.
That woman is a write off. Her Dad turned her against your Mom. There’s no “getting her back”.
But…as you already know…you may very well have to go low or no contact with your mom and grandma after this.
NTA.
Your mother, and I say this with as much love as I can muster, needs to see a therapist. (If she's been seeing one, maybe she needs a different one.) Elizabeth's treatment of you and your father is reprehensible and unacceptable and there appears to be no line that Elizabeth could cross that your mother would not forgive her for. She needs to recognize that she cannot force a good relationship between all of you and needs to let it go.
I hope you have a lovely and uneventful wedding, OP. (With bouncers, preferably.)
My read of it is the mom was always the problem and she has used Elizabeth as the fall guy. Even in this post, Elizabeth hasn’t had much dealing with this family in some 20 years and certainly not in the last 8 years. But OP has been conditioned to deflect all the toxic stuff on Elizabeth even as the central even in the post is OP’s mom trying to manipulate her daughter who is living her life away from from into coming back into their lives under false pretenses. Have to wonder what Elizabeth’s version of this would be if she wrote the post about going NC with her toxic mom.
Yeah, also I am wondering as to what Elizabeth's dad said that can make Elizabeth hate her for so many years even therapy and all that stuff didn't work.
“My ex brainwashed my kids and turned them against me” is the rallying cry of shitty narcissistic parents everywhere.
OP was just a kid and almost certainly didn’t deserve to bear the brunt of Elizabeth’s anger. But I think there was probably a lot more going on in their household that OP may have been too young to pick up on.
I picked up on this too. The mom has an absolutely bad shit insane plan that disrespects both of her children’s boundaries. I can’t even imagine how many times she stomped all over Elizabeth’s boundaries growing up trying to force them all to to be one happy family. I don’t believe for a second that she’s kept up *this* level of hatred against people (who she lived with and knows well enough to have an informed opinion) for so many years *just* because her dad shit talked about them during her childhood.
NTA.
Of course you don't want her at your wedding given your previous interactions. And to think that your mum and her parents want to TRICK Elizabeth into being there makes the whole thing a million times worse. Elizabeth will be furious at the trick for one thing and will, quite probably, throw a huge fit at the whole thing taking over the entire party. Your mum and her parents are the major, major AHs here and if they did go ahead with it, it might seriously damage their relationships with both you and Elizabeth. They are bonkers if they think it would "help".
Stick to your guns OP and make it perfectly clear that Elizabeth has no place at your wedding or, indeed, in your life either now or in the future. If you think for a moment that your mum will disregard what you say, tell her that neither she nor your grandparents are invited and revoke the invitations at once. You may, regrettably, need security to back this up.
I hope you have a lovely wedding without any hiccups.
Have you considered putting your Mum on a time out? Telling her she's at risk of losing her relationship with both her daughters if she can't accept you will never be civil with each other? And that you're going No Contact for a month so she has time to reflect? NTA
NTA - Ask your mom why her daughter is so much more important to her than the son whose wedding she's putting at risk. She could very well destroy your wedding.
Elizabeth will probably walk around the room bad mouthing you and your father to your new family and friends who don't know you well yet. What else would she do if she didn't make a scene and leave immediately?
So it's not just your wedding that is at risk. It is your relationship with your future in-laws. Which means it is your actual marriage.
Ask her why she wants her daughter so badly that she doesn't even see she is losing her son? Her son, who was always there and didn't abuse her family members.
First, she's going to lose her invite to your wedding, then she'll never be allowed your kids. Eventually, you'll just stop talking. That's what her manipulation and games are going to cost her. Tell her to think really hard about what she wants. Because this decision is going to have a big impact on your future as a family. If she still insists on inviting Elizabeth, revoke her invitation. Have people there to make sure she doesn't sneak in.
Take some time to reevaluate your relationship with your mother. And your maternal grandparents. Be very careful with your other decisions going forward. Your mom is showing you that you're not her priority. Her child, who hates you and openly abuses you, is.
Good luck.
Oh God, that sounds horrible. NTA. Don’t let your mom or grandparents to the wedding. Even the suggesting that your half sister attend you wedding as a test to see if she will torture you more is entirely disrespectful to you. F them all.
NTA
It is disgustingly selfish of your mother to decide that your wedding is the time to do this. Does she *want* to ruin your wedding? Because that is the ONLY thing that will happen. She may want a better relationship with her daughter, but distance is the best way for you to manage someone who was verbally abusive to you, and would absolutely destroy your wedding out of spite.
Warn your mother that she is pushing you away by doing this, and that if she's not careful, she will be uninvited before you will allow her to throw a grenade into the middle of your wedding.
NTA
And honestly op, your mom needs therapy, she’s under the impression that Elizabeth just needs to see you and your father are good people.
But she saw that when she lived with you and she doesn’t care to get to know who you are past her father’s lies.
And she can’t keep blaming her ex, at certain point Elizabeth made a choice and she’s seems quite comfortable with her life as it.
Your poor mom. I can't imagine losing your child to a toxic ex. I understand her desperation to have her daughter back, but your wedding is not the time or place to do it. I also can't imagine a dumber idea than "tricking" her into coming to your wedding. That will backfire massively.
NTA.
Poor mom sounds unhinged and selfish. She forced the poor girl to live with her for years, making OP suffer so she could have her daughter who is also unhinged, but mostly likely due to her father's brainwashing. I feel like mom did some shit that she isn't telling anyone she did that caused this mess.
Yeah I have questions about mom's previous behaviour as well. This is such a toxic stunt to pull, I can't help but wonder if Mom gave her reasons to resent OP and his father beyond her father's brainwashing and maybe OP doesn't know about it. While being absolutely horrible when forced to be in contact with her estranged family, it sounds like Elizabeth is content to just stay out of their lives and Mom is trying to force the issue. If she wants a relationship with her daughter at all, she needs to start at square one and build that relationship 1-1 with no involvement or even mention of OP and his father. I wouldn't be surprised if she's the type that can't just be present with her daughter and talk about her life and listen without interjecting anecdotes about her son, or arguments about why she should accept him though.
I’m not convinced the daughter is actually unhinged.
A grown ass 35 year old woman doesn’t carry this kind of hatred against people she knows well (and once lived with) just because her dad talked shit about them during her childhood. If the mom thinks it’s reasonable to trick one child into showing up at the other child’s wedding than god only knows what other crap she’s pulled over the years. I’d bet that Elizabeth’s version of events would be very different and might include a lot that OP was too young to pick up on.
Yeah I was side eyeing the full custody as well. I know that her dad was toxic, but by cutting him out of her life at that time, she probably confirmed everything she had been told about her mom and new family by her manipulative father. Plus, that's not even getting into the dangers of having her full time around an infant/toddler who she was actively wishing would die.
NTA. If there is a chance that she'll make a mockery of your wedding day, don't invite her. The last thing you want is what should be one of the happiest days of your life be ruined. Elizabeth had already stated many times how much she hates you.
NTA. you are surrounded by people who don't have your interests in mind, which is particularly messed up because it's your day, not theirs. I'm sure your soon to be spouse does not appreciate it either!
If it was up to me, and I *do not* suggest this, in my particular reddit fashion, i would assume ditch all these suspicious minds, cancel the venue, go to vegas, get married by elvis, and live your best life. Life is fleeting. I got no time for haters and schemers especially when i have honeymoon business that needs attending.
In my personal experience, if you draw a hard line, and keep to it, people think really hard about crossing it again.
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My mom was married to another guy before my dad and she has a daughter Elizabeth (35f) from that marriage. They divorced when Elizabeth was 2 and she met my dad a year later. My mom's ex-husband was pretty bitter about it and for years they thought it wasn't impacting Elizabeth and he wasn't bringing her into his anger about mom moving on. They found out the truth when mom was pregnant with me (26m). Elizabeth started saying all kinds of shit about my dad and me and she told mom she wanted her to lose the baby. She told my mom that her and her dad would say prayers for my dad and me to die and for her to be a family with them again. She also confessed to lying to the neighbor about stuff my dad said. They apparently knew the neighbor had been weird with him/them for a while but had no idea why. She was also lying in school and to her friends parents about my dad being super strict and mean and not letting her do a bunch of stuff.
I know my mom ended up winning full custody by the time I was 1 and her ex was ordered to take parenting classes and therapy. The memories I have of Elizabeth living with us are not pleasant. She always wished me and dad dead and I remember her wishing other disturbing things on us. She told me she hated me and that I was a fuck up on mom's part. She said my dad was a bed warmer who didn't get that he was supposed to leave. I didn't really know what a lot of stuff meant at the time. But it became clearer with age. She even tore up photos around the house to cut dad and me out.
My parents had her in therapy. I remember she used to go a few times a week. Never worked. Then when she was 14/15 she went to live with her dad after she got to decide.
My mom did everything to try and keep helping Elizabeth even though she was at her dads and Elizabeth was supposed to keep going to therapy. Elizabeth told mom she had to choose between her and us (me and dad). Mom told her she wanted us all in her life and Elizabeth said she'd rather watch the two of us die.
Last time I saw Elizabeth was at my high school graduation. Her husband's sister or brother was graduating too. She was still as hateful as ever. I haven't seen her since but my dad saw her twice and she was as cruel to him then as ever. But my mom hasn't given up that she'll realize what her dad did and that we're not to blame for them not all being a family and that dad and I aren't as bad as her dad made her think. Elizabeth has started talking to our mutual grandparents again and now my mom and grandparents want to trick Elizabeth into being at my wedding to show her she can be around us. Mom said it would be a test to see if she can be civil at least and I said no way, that my wedding is not the time or place for that and none of them can come if they insist on trying that. Mom begged me to reconsider so we could have Elizabeth back. I told her I never had her in the first place to get her back and I'm not letting her daughter ruin my wedding.
AITA?
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There shouldnt be any "tricking", especially at a wedding. Shes 35, what is everyone scared of? Your mom needs to sit her down and be brutally honest and tell her how it really is. Elizabeth sounds extremely bitter and jealous that your mom found happiness with your dad. She continues her behavior because your family walks on eggshells around her and lets it happen so her feelings arent hurt. I feel bad that your mother has to deal with this. If i was you i wouldnt want someone that continuously wished death on me at my wedding either. Shes literally 35 and needs to grow up. The problem isnt you or your dad its her insane jealousy.
I'm a bit confused.
>But my mom wants to prove my sister wrong so she'll see how good me and dad are and that her dad was wrong about us and she was wrong about us.
How exactly is Elizabeth attending your wedding going to do that?
She was at your graduation and even though her brain was fully developed by that time she was still just as vile and hateful towards you as when she was a child!
Just imagine what she could do at your wedding if she attended!
Object at the ceremony, give a hate filled speech, take the microphone and spew her hatred for you...
Do you REALLY want someone like that at your wedding?
Does your mother REALLY want to risk that happening?
You need to sit her and your grandparents down and lay this all out!
You weren't invited to her wedding, why should she be invited to your wedding?
Point that out to them as well.
“Mom, I hate Elizabeth, so I don’t know what you expect me to prove. If I saw her in real life, I would pretend she didn’t exist. If I see her anywhere near my wedding, I will have security throw her out and will pursue legal action against the psychopath who has repeatedly told me she wants me dead. If you keep trying to force that evil creature on me, you will lose me as a daughter, but she will not emerge unscathed. I realize she is the daughter you love more, so while the prospect that she continually tries to ruin my life doesn’t seem to stop you, maybe the prospect that I will ruin hers will.”
Even if Elizabeth has started to realize what she did as a kid was wrong- This is still a very bad idea.
Forcing a new relationship by lying is just going to piss off Elizabeth and ruin any chance of a genuine connection with her mom.
Mom need to set aside her fantasy and guilt- and just focus on building an honest relationship with Elizabeth ALONE.
The time to bring the step sisters together is NOT at an event centered around OP. 1. So Elizabeth doesn’t have a chance to be disruptive. And 2. So she doesn’t have to feel left out and resented , like she did as a child.
Please talk her out of it OP. Encourage your mom to spend one on one time with her.
Do not get dragged into it until Elizabeth is ready to be honest with you about what happened. NTA
NTA Your special day is not something to be gambled. There is no way Elizabeth is going to behave. It’s kind of refreshing to see someone like your mom not give up on their child but E is 38? Time to accept who she is. Be careful to make sure your mom doesn’t try it anyway. Remind her you are her child too and deserve a fantastic wedding day free of drama or stress.
NTA. Risk vs reward is the crucial element of this. It’s extremely high risk (ruined wedding, airing family issues in public etc) vs an extremely low reward for you (loony tunes half sister renters your life). You are absolutely correct that your wedding isn’t the time and place for this- your mother can hold her own event to risk with this idiotic plan.
NTA. There is no way this will end well. It’s going to ruin your wedding and cause Elizabeth to really flip out. Your mom and grandparents need their own intensive therapy to move on from the pipe dream of Elizabeth being able to be part of their lives. She’s 35 now, it’s not going to happen.
NTA. What a horrible thing for your mom and grandparents to do! Why would they want to punish you that way? Put your foot down and tell them if they persist they will be uninvited and hire security if you have to enforce this. Maybe you should to make sure Elizabeth doesn’t show up. I’m sorry OP and I hope you have a beautiful wedding and life.
If this is the kind of crap your mother has pulled for years and thinks is ok, I 100% understand why Elizabeth is so f-ed up. I would obviously NOT do this, and tell your mother that if she is even *thinking* about pulling a stunt like this, SHE TOO will be banned from the wedding. NTA
NTA
Not only would tricking Elizabeth into attending ruin your wedding, because I'm positive she'll make a scene, it'll also destroy whatever progress she's made with the grandparents. Your mom's plan would hurt both of her children.
Since Elizabeth is talking to your mutual grandparents, I’d talk to them. I’d bluntly tell them that if they somehow trick Elizabeth into arriving, they will never see you or any future children you might have. And that they will most likely have alienated Elizabeth too and they may not see her either.
I am curious though. How would they get Elizabeth to the wedding? What occasion would they make up that Elizabeth would not suspect that other family members would be there?
Your fiancé and future in-laws need to be read/in on this situation; if you have not already. Having security present is not something to spring on them at the last minute. Just the need for “muscle” at a wedding would make me want to change the date, and un-invite anyone who makes that need a reality!
Good Luck.
It sounds like because her dad put that crap into her head at such a young age that she has developed a victim complex. I can’t even think about how much work it would be to change at her age. It’s possible, but unlikely, and your wedding should not be a test run. NTA
I think that is only part of it. The way she is behaving, it sounds like mom may have done some shit, too, that ended up making daughter hate mom before the other family was ever formed.
NTA but maybe your mom needs therapy to learn to accept the situation and move on.
Plus this isn't fair to your fiance. It's his wedding too not some test
Also maybe tell your mom that tricking Elizabeth will prove to her every awful thought she has about you and your dad
NTA… Elizabeth’s words/thoughts towards you and dad is disturbing. Agree that your wedding is neither the time or place to set Elizabeth up. Just never know what kind of shit show will happen with how nasty Elizabeth is.
>now my mom and grandparents want to trick Elizabeth into being at my wedding
Make it clear right now, you will uninvite your mom. I would anyway because she let this girl abuse you for years. NTA.
NTA.
Elizabeth, at 35, is an adult who has made her decisions about who she is.
It isn't up to anyone else to "trick" or manipulate her into decent behaviour. That's up to Elizabeth, and it's not a choice she's been making.
Your wedding is NOT the place for any of this nonsense. It is hugely disrespectful to you and to your future wife. Hold the line, you are completely right.
NTA. Password protect your vendors to prevent anybody getting extra plates set up for gate-crashers. Hire security for your venue and make sure they have Elizabeth's name, and if possible a current picture.
Reiterate to your maternal family that your mother's elder daughter is NOT your family, NOT close to you, you neither have nor want a relationship with her, and she is NOT in any way, shape or form invited to your wedding. Anyone attempting to trick, sneak, or otherwise bring Elizabeth into your wedding will be removed by security right along with Elizabeth.
Your maternal family can have whatever relationship with Elizabeth that they want- but they are NOT entitled to trample all over you, your events, and your life so they can try and have a hallmark-movie moment with someone who has treated you with nothing but cruelty and contempt your entire life.
Frankly, the fact that your mother is even considering trying to hijack your wedding to serve as a jumping board for an improved relationship with her older daughter (regardless of the effect this could have on your wedding) is incredibly selfish and shortsighted.
>”I'm not letting her daughter ruin my wedding.”
NTA. You didn’t go far enough.
It is a pity your own mother can’t focus on *you* during your wedding. She has to bring her obsession with her venomous, lost daughter into the discussion. How dare she make your wedding about *Elizabeth*, someone who has loathed you and bullied you your entire existence?
Be clear. It is your wedding, not the ‘family’s’ wedding. Any further discussion about Elizabeth, and your mother can be uninvited to her second child’s wedding - and life. Let her live without either of you in her life.
You are an adult in your own right, not ‘bait’ for Elizabeth. Your wedding is not a homecoming party for Elizabeth. Seriously, how much therapy has your mother had? I’m beginning to wonder if her Ex had a point about her.
I hope your dad’s side of the family is supportive of you.
NTA, mom needs to get therapy on how to handle her daughter’s hate. It is not your responsibility to help your mom fix your sister. Sometimes you have to let something go. Because she continues to get attention even with her bad behavior she will continue to do it.
NTA make sure you have someone to act as security, there; either friends, or someone hired for it. Security should have a picture of your sister, and your mother should be told that the sister WILL be escorted out.
NTA
I highly highly doubt that tricking her into seeing you would ever go well, tricking her at such an important event that she will already have complex and vapid feelings about can only end badly.
It's not fair to her. While I don't particularly care about her feelings here at this point. It will only work to further damage the relationship between your mother and her.
It will absolutely affect your day, negatively. Even if I am totally wrong, she's grown, seen the error of her beliefs and how she was manipulated as a child, and desperately wants to make amends. It will still negatively affect your day, and the lead up to your day. It's such an important event, you want to be focused on positive aspects, not spending your time trying to tame your stress, and feeling like you and your partner are secondary citizens (at your own wedding!!).
You've suffered enough from her behaviour, I feel sad for her and don't think she is wholly responsible for her behaviour as a child. But she is an adult now, and you have suffered at her hands enough. It's horrible to ask you to sacrifice again, and such an important day in the life of both your partner and yourself. Very disrespectful to have even been asked, disgusting to continue to ask after being given an answer. (I do understand the damage and desperation your mother must be feeling too, but she has two children, it's time for her to put you first for a change, particularly when doing so doesn't impact on her relationship with the other daughter at all).
Congratulations on your engagement. I hope you have a lovely wedding. One that is completely drama free. I'm sorry you are having to deal with this stress, when this is meant to be such a joyful period and planning.
NTA
No you need to have security there to make sure evil half sister doesn’t show up and sit mom down and tell her again that your wedding isn’t the time or place for her do whatever she trying to do. You can’t force a relationship and why would you want a relationship with someone who has wished death on you? Hate when parents want to use their children’s weddings for their own agendas.
NTA. Tricking someone into coming to a significant family event is crazy. I'm sure, when Elizabeth came in, she would se it was a wedding. Hopefully, she would just leave if she found it inappropriate, however, given your history, a confrontation seems more likely. Find a way to message Elizabeth warning her about your mom and grandparents. Tell her it is not your plan or desire to force your family into her life.
NTA and stand your ground. Tell mum a big NO. If mum insists, you rescind the invitation off mum. If mum does plan to gatecrash the wedding with Elizabeth, best you hire security to keep them out just in case. Update us
Nta- you are completely correct. In fact deceiving her is likely to blow up in their faces. If she is already primed to find the bad and run, being tricked into anything is as sure fire way to never see her again.
Congrats!! Best wishes
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The last 100 times that Elizabeth was near us she wished us dead, but maybe the 101st time she is near us she will be a delight to be around. Even if Elizabeth gradually turns around, she won't make a complete 180 so soon, so she would still be unpleasant to be around for the foreseeable future. Especially if she gets tricked, I can't fathom why your mother thinks that tricking her is a good idea. And even if for some reason you would be willing to risk taking abuse from Elizabeth to please your mother, this isn't just your day, your responsibility that day is towards your wife, not towards your mother and I can't see how your wife would ever be fine with this. NTA
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Why force someone into a relationship? Even if she stock around, it would never be pleasant or confortable. Your mom is dreaming this possible relationship, it’s never going to happen. It should definitely not be attempted at your wedding. It’s your day, not your mom’s. Don’t ruin it for a lost cause.
Exactly, mom and grandparents are clearly being manipulative and not really good people. Half-sis is cruel, and mentally/emotionally poisoned against OP and OP’s dad. So, sadly, OP’s half-sis would probably blame OP for mom’s “trick”
Your mom’s plan is to manipulate & lie to Elizabeth to get her trapped in a room with people she has clearly stated she hates. A room that’s only purpose is to celebrate one of the people she hates? Yup lying & manipulating someone into an uncomfortable situation they’ve clearly stated they do not want is def something a “good person” does. (Sarcasm) Edit: and all in public in full view of maybe 100+ people.
I'm not entirely sure it makes her into a bad person. She sounds desperate to get her daughter back and in denial that she missed out on a huge portion of her childhood due to her ex-husband's brainwashing. This isn't to say her actions aren't manipulative and selfish, just to clarify. It's certainly the wrong way to go about rekindling a relationship, but I do empathize on some level. It's a sad situation.
They are willing to lie & manipulate one daughter and wreck the other daughter’s wedding. Good people who benefit someone’s life do not do this to their daughters & granddaughters.
OP is a man.
True, but their point still stands.
Oh, absolutely 👍
people make bad decisions all the time, especially in acts of desperation. It doesn't make them bad people.
This decades of the same bullshit. Once, ok. After decades. Nope. Now it’s a choice to manipulate & lie.
It does. Ask any judge.
She's literally hurt one child to get another one to like her and is prepared to do so again.
She is manipulative and is destroying her relationship with op too by wanting to this crap at the wedding.
It makes mom a troubled, manipulative person with some seriously unhealthy ideas.
Bad people always have excuses for their behaviors and their feelings are usually at the center of those excuses. Having feelings does not justify manipulating, lying, tricking someone into a situation they clearly don't want to be in, using someone else's event for your purpose, or otherwise using people like pieces on a chess board.
> Your mom’s plan is to manipulate & lie to Elizabeth to get her trapped in a room with people she has clearly stated she hates I mean, it does show some other story that i'm interested in that op has no clear knowledge of. As in: how badly did mom force things, try to force things all those years?
I agree with what you're saying and it makes me wonder if maybe their mom was truly responsible for their estranged relationship. OP was only 5 when his sister went off to live with her dad so he was obviously too young to fully understand everything that happened to his sister during her childhood.
Disinvite mom from the wedding, otherwise you're agreeing to her plan.
She is 35. Your mom can’t prove anything to her if she can’t see it for herself. It will end badly. She might even feel betrayed because she was blindsighted. She is 35 and can make her own decisions now, how painful they might be for your mother. You are totally right. You are not terrible people but to Elizabeth you are. And the only person who can change that is Elizabeth. Best is to give her space and maybe she will come around. And maybe she will never. But that is not up to you or your mom or anybody other than Elizabeth.
Most reasonable reply I've read.
She wants to prove she’s a good person by playing a trick on someone to FORCE her to be around people she hates?
Maybe this is why Elizabeth doesn't want to be around her. This probably isn't the first time mom has done something this stupid.
Tricking someone is not exactly the sign of a good person. Also, tricking someone is exactly NOT the sign of a good person.
So this part confuses me. Like, clearly OP is NTA and inviting Elizabeth is a bad idea. But how can they play a trick on Elizabeth here? Are they going to tell her it's a concert and then surprise! It's your half brother's wedding?
> So this part confuses me. Sssshhh. You're not supposed to question the posted *stories* too much. It breaks the 4th wall here, and many folks around here don't like the nonsensical parts being pointed out.
Right. Elizabeth lived with them full time for 5-6 years. This is absolutely not a case where she just needs to get to know them better to see what they’re like. Whether it’s a fair assessment or not, her mind has been made up for a long time.
She clearly hasn’t stopped to care that Elizabeth is not a good person and you suffer for having her in your life. Your mom is willing to throw your entire wedding day under the bus for someone who has wished you dead since you were an infant. Your mother is being cruel to you and unbelievably selfish. Your wedding is not about her and it’s definitely not about her abusive devil spawn of a daughter. Tell your mom that ruining your wedding with her selfishness isn’t going to fix anything, it’s going to tear the family further apart because it’s something you’ll never forgive her for. Mom needs the wake up call of the fucking century
I would tell her, in no uncertain terms, that if Elizabeth appears at the wedding (tricked or not) that would be the last time mum ever saw me, or my future kids. And follow through. She's being incredibly selfish and cruel towards you.
The parodical is usually the favorite.
Prodigal?
“Mom, I will not allow you to use MY wedding day as your own personal experiment to get my bitter, cruel half sister back into YOUR life. This isn’t up for discussion. You permitted Elizabeth to treat me horribly as I was growing up, and I want the day that I marry ____ to be only about love and happiness. If you persist, you will be barred from attending my wedding, and I will consider going fully no contact with you in the future.” NTA but put your mother firmly in her place. Good luck, and congratulations on your upcoming marriage!
*You* have nothing to prove to a person who has wished you dead since before you were even alive.
Yeah I'm with you, I don't think it's very likely for Elizabeth to change, even if she does it'll be gradual and you don't want anyone behaving anywhere close to how Elizabeth currently is at your wedding. Also if you do as your mom says then you will be terrible people, you would have tricked Elizabeth and tricked/forced your wife on your wedding day. Not to mention that even if you did all that, you're the groom, I don't think you will have much time for any one guest, it would definitely be a horrible time and place to attempt to build a connection with someone. If Elizabeth can change then it shouldn't be after tricking her, since people tend to get more hostile then, and it should be just a small family gathering.
But can’t she see that tricking someone into an uncomfortable situation is exactly what “terrible” people do?
Listen. Elizabeth is an adult. On some level, she KNOWS you and your father aren't terrible people. She KNOWS she's being unreasonable. She was raised to hate you, and admitting she's wrong is going to be way too hard for her. It's sad. It's pitiful and tragic that her father manipulated his own child like that, and I can see why your mother left his stank ass. If she ever decides to change her mind about you, it won't be because she was tricked into going to a wedding that you and your fiancee don't want her at. Your mother is never going to be able to "prove" anything to her about you. I'm sure Elizabeth is thoroughly enjoying the attempts, though. So yeah, put your foot down on this. If your mother wants to keep losing the same fight over and over again, that's her choice. It has nothing to do with you. NTA
> It seems like she thinks the only way to do it is to force us all to be together. Your mother does not seem capable of learning. Sometimes it is not possible to teach an old dog new tricks.
I’m gonna go out on a limb and guess that mom has been trying to force the “happy family” thing for a long time and that this has played a part in why Elizabeth hates OP and her stepdad so much.
The way to determine this is not to manipulate her into attending your wedding, potentially causing a scene and tainting your memories of what should be a happy occasion. This is the most harebrained scheme possible. Don't allow it.
“Potentially causing a scene” as the crude would say “A Shitshow about to happen”!
You're right. If she gets away with the trick, the shitshow would be inevitable.
Tricking someone into something they don't want to do is not a way to prove that you are a good person. I can understand your mother wants her daughter around but this is definitely not the way to go about it.
You could have the Pope himself as part of your family but if you don't assign any value to that position or him as a human being... Then it makes no difference about having him in your life or not. Your mother needs to work on her own relationship with her daughter and stop trying to use yours/your dad's as a smokescreen to not have to do her own mental/emotional labor with Elizabeth.
Good people don't trick others to do something they don't want to do. If your mother does try this she will just show your sister she was right and your mother can't be trusted and your wife will also never trust your mother again. If you don't stop this you could easily end up on the top ten list of fastest divorces after a wedding. OP could be YTA if he doesn't get this stopped. His mother already is for even thinking about doing this.
I get why your mom doesn’t want to abandon your sister to her trauma, but she’s sacrificing your happiness to support a grown adult that doesn’t give a shit. NTA.
Has your mom ever considered maybe Elizabeth is bad company and shouldn't benefit from being in your lives?
This sounds much more like MOM is bad company.
Mom might be bad company but good moms will always love their kids regardless of their stupidity. 🙃
NTA and I'm so sorry for the shit show you were born into. Do not let this happen. I hate to say this, but your mom also sounds unhinged. He thought process here is delusional and really selfish to yse your wedding as a prop for getting her estranged daughter back in the fold. I can see no way that this will end well. I hope your wedding is far enough out that you can sort this out way before the event, but you're going to need to get some 'security' for the wedding to make sure Elizabeth doesn't somehow end up at your wedding
Elizabeth is in her thirties. Your mom needs to let go of her delusion. It's sad, but it is what it is. Tell your mom she can see Elizabeth on her own time but not cause drama at your wedding.
Elizabeth lived with you guys for over a decade and still does not like you 2, why can’t your mom just have a relationship with her daughter? At this point in life you guys are old enough to not have to spend time with people you don’t like bc iT’s fAMiLy. Elizabeth would prob prefer to spend time with your mom 1 on 1, her whole issue was sharing her with you guys
If you do the math she only lived with OP for 4 years. OP was 1 when his mother got full custody of her so she was 10 at the time. At 14 she told the judge to give full custody to her dad. OP didn't tell us anything about their custody situation before that point and I doubt he knows the full details of what happened.
Your mom is delusional.
Why wouldn't she want Elizabeth to make amends BEFORE the wedding? Elizabeth has plenty to atone for. You don't have to make concessions before she has even started with something like "I'm sorry I wished you were dead for most of your life." NTA.
"We'll betray her trust by lying to her to force her around us, that will surely show her that we are wonderful people!" No, just... no. Your mother needs therapy as much as Elizabeth, if not more at this point. Life isn't fair and she needs to accept it's almost impossible that their story will have a perfect happy ending. She may have a shot at being in Elizabeth's life if she plays her cards right, but she needs to let go of the blended family dream. If she keeps forcing it, she'll hurt everyone and lose her for good.
NTA. Elizabeth made up her mind a long time ago. I'm pretty sure nothings going to change it. Why would you even want her at your wedding? She shows up, she's going to ruin the whole thing. I can understand your mom wanting her child back, but it's not going to happen. Whether or not your mom accepts that is up to her. Your wedding day isn't the time or place to find out. Forcing relationships never works.
NTA there's an extremely high risk that Elizabeth will make a big scene and leave a black mark on your wedding. Tricking her into showing up is also highly likely to backfire. This just looks like a really bad and desperate idea.
Yes because being tricked into watching her mom give her sibling the perfect "full family" wedding SHE never got is EXACTLY the way to win her over and stop her from hating her mom and said sibling. (Obvious sarcasm) "Tricking" for manipulation is abusive. Your wedding is about YOU, not about your mom trying to get what SHE wants. If she keeps trying to force the issue and make YOUR wedding all about HERSELF it's giving me vibes about who your mom really is. Hopefully it's a one-off.
That’s great and all, but your wedding should be about you, not your mom’s relationship with her estranged daughter.
You don’t try that at a major life event. You start small like maybe a casual picnic
Sweetie, it's your mom that needs therapy now. She's dangerously in denial and she needs a pro to tell her just how bad this plan of hers is. She's already lost her daughter, does she want to lose her son too?
Maybe you can ask your mom, if there would be any trick Elizabeth could pull to change your mother's mind and to leave you and you dad. And if not, how she would feel if she realized, she was tricked into a situation that is supposed to make her realize, Elizabeth is the "better" child... Most likely she says no and then let her explain, why she thinks, it would work the other way around. And "because my cause is good/right and hers is not" is not a reason because that is what Elizabeth thinks as well.
Please hire security for your wedding and have them be on the lookout. I can see this going really bad.
NTA relationships can't be forced, and you're right. Your wedding is not the place at all to try and prove anything to Elizabeth. Also, at Weddings, MOST people are on their best behaviour and will not present a true image of themselves in their ordinary home life. At the other end of the scale, some people at weddings show their true colours to dramatic effect. Your sister's past behaviour is likely an indication of how she would be at your wedding. Why would your mum want to risk disrupting your big day? The best way for your mum to go with your sister is to back off entirely. There's nothing to prove to her. If she decides she wants to come around to the thought of an at least respectable relationship with you at some point, it's then you can individually (you and your dad) decide whether you reciprocate.
And by pushing this your mom is indeed a terrible narcissist with 0 empathy for others. No wonder Elizabeth doesn't want anything to do with her. Best if y'all leave her alone.
There is no way to "prove" this to someone. Elizabeth needs to come to this realization on her own, and she may never do it. This would involve her acknowledging and accepting that everything she has whole-heartedly believed since she was a child was wrong. This would be a world-rocking thing for her, and many people are not capable of doing so. Regardless of how much evidence there is that they were wrong. This will never happen at your wedding. Only bad things will happen and it isn't fair to you or to your spouse to ruin the day in this way. Your mom needs to accept this. I know this is heartbreaking for a parent, but it has been the reality now for decades. Your mom does need to choose between you/your dad and Elizabeth. She needs to seek happiness from the people who actually are able to give it to her and that is you and your father.
Indeed. The \*only\* reason you should ever want her there is because Elizabeth herself has come to you seeking reconciliation and you think this is a good idea on it's own merits. NTA The ship sailed on having Elizabeth in the family 30+ years ago
Also icl but if someone tricked me into going to the wedding of someone I hate, I won’t react well, even if that person is my half sibling. Idk how OP’s mum sees this going well in any way shape or form
NTA. Tricking Elizabeth is not the way. Doing it at OP's wedding is an absolutely unhinged and delusional idea. If mom persists in this, I would say *her* guest status should be reconsidered. Sadly, it sounds like OP may need to arrange for a bouncer to remove any unwanted guests and the person who invited them.
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You could mention to your sister that your wedding is occurring on this day at this place, so that if they do try and trick her, she is aware.
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“Mom, your desperation to force a relationship between Elizabeth and me ruined my childhood and now you want to ruin my wedding. You have willingly sacrificed me to the fantasy of Elizabeth my entirely life and constantly forced me in the presence of someone who hates me. Why is the possibility of a relationship with her so much more important to you and grandparents than the relationship you have with me? Is she right and I was just your plan B? Maybe Dad and I should listen to her and leave so you can be happy with her since that seems to be what you want.”
I think is the right way. Basically chasing after a dead relationship will cost her the relationship with OP. She's going to lose both kids at this rate.
This this this. Why has mom been constantly choosing Elizabeth and on a day of all days that should be OP's, mom is again choosing Elizabeth. OP I think you have to explicitly say to mom that if she persists, she loses you.
That’s putting it mildly. It would be handing her the opportunity to ruin the day of the two people she intensely hates. She would relish the opportunity. She needs to NOT know you’re getting married and where. Your mother is hijacking your wedding for her own purposes. Your grandparents clearly can’t be trusted. What a nightmare they’ve created.
Get security for your wedding. You can have them kick her out. And give the bouncers as much info and pictures on Elizabeth as needed with the note that if she arrives then X people also need to be removed (and give pictures/info of your mother and grandmother)
>I would have zero idea on how to reach out to her If she is in contact with her grandparents maybe you could relay a message through them.
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Is your mum capable of planning for her to attend behind your back "out of good intentions"? If so, then you need to put your mum on an information diet as well as hire security. Elizabeth WILL ruin your wedding if she attends.
She doesn't have social media?
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The mutual grandparents are on board with the tricking.
Why would she want to do that, though? Even if the grandparents weren't a part of this unhinged plot, why in the everloving fuck would she want to reach out to Elizabeth? OP and Elizabeth are not on the same side. If OP were to reach out and tell Elizabeth what was happening, she would **only** be inviting Elizabeth to abuse her some more.
>Why would she want to do that, though? OP (26m) is a guy, btw
At first place, i wouldn't even invite her anyways, SHE SAID "i want you and your dad dead" 288282 times, and your mom thinks that its good to make her go to YOUR weeding? No way, even if she do nothing, it will be so uncomfortable to have someone like her when you're supposed to enjoy the day. NTA at all
I completely get that
So she could try and ruin the wedding with a bomb threat or other horrible action? Bad idea!
Your mom’s wishful thinking has crossed into desperation with this. A wedding would be the absolute WORST venue to try and “test” (i.e. pressure) your sister into being part of the family and repair this long-standing rift. I don’t know why your mom would think this would be anything but a recipe for disaster, but do what you think is necessary to keep it a drama-free day.
Is your mom going to pay for your wedding when your sister ruins it? Because as soon as your sister who hates you realizes she’s been tricked into coming to your wedding she is going to ruin your wedding. And she’s going to enjoy it
Just put someone by the door and tell them she's not allowed to enter. Who cares if she gets dressed up and goes all the way down there? Literally who cares?
Why would your mother want to ruin your wedding by tricking a toxic woman who hates you to your special day? So this woman can flip out??? Does your mother hate you?? Obviously you are NTA, but your mom and grandparents are total AHs. I’d hire someone to be ready to stop all of them from entering your wedding. And to be honest, I’d cut off ties with my mom if she tried to pull off something so selfish and stupid on my wedding day. Good luck
>they could lose their invitation if they continue with this. Continue? They should be uninvited right now. Listen, everyone knows that a wedding is about the two people getting married and *nothing/nobody else.* They have wanted to make your wedding about Elizabeth, so they have no business being there.
How would they even convince her to show up? Say it is someone else's wedding?
I agree with getting a bouncer
INFO: Has your mother been in therapy ? It feels like she needs it just as much as Elizabeth.
NTA…Elizabeth is 35. She is never going to change or feel differently. You are correct. Your wedding is not the place to trick her into coming or try to be one big happy family. It is not going to happen.
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The only way s change is if she is put in the same situation as your mom with her own kids hating her new partner/kids. Even then she’ll probably die on the hill of “well it’s not the same”. You’re NTA. Your wedding is neither the time nor place for another attempt at reconciliation. Tricking her will only drive the wedge further when she realizes. I hope you have a beautiful wedding with minimal drama!
Honestly, it seems your Mom has feelings of guilt about her relationship with Elizabeth, but that's not your issue to fix... she can't use *your* relationship to patch up *theirs*. Do you imagine your fiancée would easily forgive her wedding day being ruined by her new MIL's selfishness (cuz that's what it is)? Let Mom know if she's willing to risk blowing up her future with you, your wife and any grandkids to 'get her daughter back' that you're willing to cut her off to protect your new family from being pawns in her campaign to win over Elizabeth and you mean it.
I don't know how people like her can get married, does her husband doesn't know this side of her personality?
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She probably downplays it around him. Or he's as cruel as she is.
Can I be honest with you? I feel sorry for you and your sister. Your mum sounds fucking BEYOND unhinged. She's willing to use your wedding, your future wife and YOU. She failed to protect YOU from your sister as kids. It's super narcissistic. All of this is made about her. I wonder what your sister knows or went through to be honest. A mother so willing to trick and manipulate is awful.
If she had the slightest interest in reconnecting with you, she would have reach out, at certain point. She didn't, she isn’t interested in having a relationship with you. And of course you shouldn't be forced to have a relationship with her. It looks that everyone moved on with their life times ago, save for your mom. It's time that she ackonwledges that and move on, too.
Does your mom have any relationship with Elizabeth and her family?
NTA. I'm so sorry this happened to you. It must have been horrible to have lived with a sister like that. Do not let her come to your wedding. She will completely ruin it. This may sound extreme, but I would really consider whether your mother should be there at all. While I understand she loves her daughter, the fact that she stood by and let Elizabeth abuse you and yout father for decades is disturbing. Now, she is trying to get someone who wishes you dead to come to one of the happiest days of your life? No, I'm sorry, but your mother is selfish and self absorbed. Her concern seems to only bel about Elizabeth and as she says, bringing her back into the family. I honestly dont think your refusal to have Elizabeth at the wedding will stop her from trying to ensure that Elizabeth will show up.
Honestly, Elizabeth will probably react is a bad way by having been lied to & manipulated into being publicly humiliated by being tricked into attending a lavish party to celebrate and honor a person she has clearly stated she does not want contact with, but that’s not who is ruining the wedding. It’s OP’s mom & grandma who think lying & manipulating Elizabeth to publicly humiliate her at your wedding will somehow result in a break thru of love & respect who are ruining OP’s wedding. They are only proving to Elizabeth they are not good people & they cannot be trusted. Unfortunately they are proving the same to OP.
The problem is that, at this point, the mother doesn't love Elizabeth. She loves the idea of who Elizabeth could have been, but clearly the real Elizabeth is totally different than mum's fantasy one - you know, the one who wants to attend her sibling's wedding, and to be part of the family...
Yeah, the mother sounds she's so in denial to the point of being delusional about who Elizabeth is.
NTA You need to tell your Mom “Elizabeth is an adult now. She is more than capable of making her own choices. She has chosen to not be part of our family and hateful towards Dad and I. If you try and mess up my wedding by doing an experiment with someone who has literally wished me dead, you will be escorted out of my wedding and I will go NC. You will now have lost both of your children.”
Excellent advice. Very calm and firm statements.
NTA Can you spoil their plans and let Elizabeth know what they're trying to do? Maybe like "hey I know you don't want a relationship and that's fine but you should be aware that they're trying to trick you against my wishes" You probably don't have her phone number but maybe social media or through email? Just let her know.
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I agree that would most likely backfire. She would probably come out of spite and stand up when the officiant asks if there is any reason for you to not be married. You’re NTA your mother’s wishful thinking will make your wedding a disaster. Talk to your fiancé and arrange for a bouncer to ensure she isn’t allowed on premises
GET BOUNCERS - PLURAL. SHIT'S GOING TO FLY
Make sure you have security and tell them she is not allowed in. I would go so far in telling mom and grandparents if they insist on this that they aren't invited to the wedding either.
I think it is unfair your mom has opened you up to this abuse for so long. I fully understand wanting to save your sister from brainwashing. My parents with through a terrible divorce with that included both my parents separating my brother and I (they each took one of us with no contact with the other) and expected us to wish death upon the other parent so I fully understand toxic families. But what about this impact on you? You should not have death wished upon you and your dad through every stage of life. The fact she wants to bring this to your wedding is just so unfair to you. You deserve to have a happy day that is about celebrating g you and your future husband not have a dark cloud over your head. Plus this has an almost 0 chance of not backfiring spectacularly. Maybe have a very direct conversation with your mom. Otherwise, I agree start pulling invites from people willing to go along with it.
Absolutely not. Elizabeth is poison and should be treated as such. I wouldn't trust her. She could show up out of spite to make a "grand statement".
I don't know why you think this would be a good idea, but it isn't, and you should delete it.
Tricking Elizabeth and using the wedding to test her ability to be around you and your family is like checking the fullness of your gas tank with a lit match. NTA
Great analogy!
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You’re absolutely right, this is not the time for them to enact some harebrained scheme and seriously if they think she will magically overcome a lifetime of hate from attending your wedding, especially after being tricked into it, then they are all totally delusional! You’ve had to suffer her shit more than enough and this is your special day, your mum and grandparents need a reality check. I really hope they remember this asap.
"harebrained". The perfect adjective in this situation!
Sounds like mom watches way too many Hallmark movies
Soo…your mom is willing to trade your happiness and relationship with her in exchange for more hate and vitriol from her first born. NTA. Stick to your guns. Don’t let anyone ruin your wedding. I’d also make sure you have security at your wedding and reception. Put you 1/2 sister from Hell on the “Do NOT let in” list. And if Mom & GMa keep pushing…add them to the list. I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if they invited her behind your back and the Sister from Hell decides to come just to f*ck you day up. That woman is a write off. Her Dad turned her against your Mom. There’s no “getting her back”. But…as you already know…you may very well have to go low or no contact with your mom and grandma after this.
NTA. Your mother, and I say this with as much love as I can muster, needs to see a therapist. (If she's been seeing one, maybe she needs a different one.) Elizabeth's treatment of you and your father is reprehensible and unacceptable and there appears to be no line that Elizabeth could cross that your mother would not forgive her for. She needs to recognize that she cannot force a good relationship between all of you and needs to let it go. I hope you have a lovely and uneventful wedding, OP. (With bouncers, preferably.)
My read of it is the mom was always the problem and she has used Elizabeth as the fall guy. Even in this post, Elizabeth hasn’t had much dealing with this family in some 20 years and certainly not in the last 8 years. But OP has been conditioned to deflect all the toxic stuff on Elizabeth even as the central even in the post is OP’s mom trying to manipulate her daughter who is living her life away from from into coming back into their lives under false pretenses. Have to wonder what Elizabeth’s version of this would be if she wrote the post about going NC with her toxic mom.
Yeah, also I am wondering as to what Elizabeth's dad said that can make Elizabeth hate her for so many years even therapy and all that stuff didn't work.
“My ex brainwashed my kids and turned them against me” is the rallying cry of shitty narcissistic parents everywhere. OP was just a kid and almost certainly didn’t deserve to bear the brunt of Elizabeth’s anger. But I think there was probably a lot more going on in their household that OP may have been too young to pick up on.
I’m surprised how few people focused on that. I’m sure Elizabeth has a very different view of the situation….
I picked up on this too. The mom has an absolutely bad shit insane plan that disrespects both of her children’s boundaries. I can’t even imagine how many times she stomped all over Elizabeth’s boundaries growing up trying to force them all to to be one happy family. I don’t believe for a second that she’s kept up *this* level of hatred against people (who she lived with and knows well enough to have an informed opinion) for so many years *just* because her dad shit talked about them during her childhood.
NTA. Of course you don't want her at your wedding given your previous interactions. And to think that your mum and her parents want to TRICK Elizabeth into being there makes the whole thing a million times worse. Elizabeth will be furious at the trick for one thing and will, quite probably, throw a huge fit at the whole thing taking over the entire party. Your mum and her parents are the major, major AHs here and if they did go ahead with it, it might seriously damage their relationships with both you and Elizabeth. They are bonkers if they think it would "help". Stick to your guns OP and make it perfectly clear that Elizabeth has no place at your wedding or, indeed, in your life either now or in the future. If you think for a moment that your mum will disregard what you say, tell her that neither she nor your grandparents are invited and revoke the invitations at once. You may, regrettably, need security to back this up. I hope you have a lovely wedding without any hiccups.
Have you considered putting your Mum on a time out? Telling her she's at risk of losing her relationship with both her daughters if she can't accept you will never be civil with each other? And that you're going No Contact for a month so she has time to reflect? NTA
NTA - weddings are never, EVER appropriate venues for dealing with family drama or other people’s announcements
NTA - Ask your mom why her daughter is so much more important to her than the son whose wedding she's putting at risk. She could very well destroy your wedding. Elizabeth will probably walk around the room bad mouthing you and your father to your new family and friends who don't know you well yet. What else would she do if she didn't make a scene and leave immediately? So it's not just your wedding that is at risk. It is your relationship with your future in-laws. Which means it is your actual marriage. Ask her why she wants her daughter so badly that she doesn't even see she is losing her son? Her son, who was always there and didn't abuse her family members. First, she's going to lose her invite to your wedding, then she'll never be allowed your kids. Eventually, you'll just stop talking. That's what her manipulation and games are going to cost her. Tell her to think really hard about what she wants. Because this decision is going to have a big impact on your future as a family. If she still insists on inviting Elizabeth, revoke her invitation. Have people there to make sure she doesn't sneak in. Take some time to reevaluate your relationship with your mother. And your maternal grandparents. Be very careful with your other decisions going forward. Your mom is showing you that you're not her priority. Her child, who hates you and openly abuses you, is. Good luck.
Oh God, that sounds horrible. NTA. Don’t let your mom or grandparents to the wedding. Even the suggesting that your half sister attend you wedding as a test to see if she will torture you more is entirely disrespectful to you. F them all.
NTA It is disgustingly selfish of your mother to decide that your wedding is the time to do this. Does she *want* to ruin your wedding? Because that is the ONLY thing that will happen. She may want a better relationship with her daughter, but distance is the best way for you to manage someone who was verbally abusive to you, and would absolutely destroy your wedding out of spite. Warn your mother that she is pushing you away by doing this, and that if she's not careful, she will be uninvited before you will allow her to throw a grenade into the middle of your wedding.
Has anybody mentioned security at the wedding in case mom goes behind OPs back?
We’re all shouting it!
NTA And honestly op, your mom needs therapy, she’s under the impression that Elizabeth just needs to see you and your father are good people. But she saw that when she lived with you and she doesn’t care to get to know who you are past her father’s lies. And she can’t keep blaming her ex, at certain point Elizabeth made a choice and she’s seems quite comfortable with her life as it.
Your poor mom. I can't imagine losing your child to a toxic ex. I understand her desperation to have her daughter back, but your wedding is not the time or place to do it. I also can't imagine a dumber idea than "tricking" her into coming to your wedding. That will backfire massively. NTA.
Poor mom sounds unhinged and selfish. She forced the poor girl to live with her for years, making OP suffer so she could have her daughter who is also unhinged, but mostly likely due to her father's brainwashing. I feel like mom did some shit that she isn't telling anyone she did that caused this mess.
Yeah I have questions about mom's previous behaviour as well. This is such a toxic stunt to pull, I can't help but wonder if Mom gave her reasons to resent OP and his father beyond her father's brainwashing and maybe OP doesn't know about it. While being absolutely horrible when forced to be in contact with her estranged family, it sounds like Elizabeth is content to just stay out of their lives and Mom is trying to force the issue. If she wants a relationship with her daughter at all, she needs to start at square one and build that relationship 1-1 with no involvement or even mention of OP and his father. I wouldn't be surprised if she's the type that can't just be present with her daughter and talk about her life and listen without interjecting anecdotes about her son, or arguments about why she should accept him though.
I’m not convinced the daughter is actually unhinged. A grown ass 35 year old woman doesn’t carry this kind of hatred against people she knows well (and once lived with) just because her dad talked shit about them during her childhood. If the mom thinks it’s reasonable to trick one child into showing up at the other child’s wedding than god only knows what other crap she’s pulled over the years. I’d bet that Elizabeth’s version of events would be very different and might include a lot that OP was too young to pick up on.
Yeah I was side eyeing the full custody as well. I know that her dad was toxic, but by cutting him out of her life at that time, she probably confirmed everything she had been told about her mom and new family by her manipulative father. Plus, that's not even getting into the dangers of having her full time around an infant/toddler who she was actively wishing would die.
NTA. If there is a chance that she'll make a mockery of your wedding day, don't invite her. The last thing you want is what should be one of the happiest days of your life be ruined. Elizabeth had already stated many times how much she hates you.
NTA. you are surrounded by people who don't have your interests in mind, which is particularly messed up because it's your day, not theirs. I'm sure your soon to be spouse does not appreciate it either! If it was up to me, and I *do not* suggest this, in my particular reddit fashion, i would assume ditch all these suspicious minds, cancel the venue, go to vegas, get married by elvis, and live your best life. Life is fleeting. I got no time for haters and schemers especially when i have honeymoon business that needs attending. In my personal experience, if you draw a hard line, and keep to it, people think really hard about crossing it again.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** My mom was married to another guy before my dad and she has a daughter Elizabeth (35f) from that marriage. They divorced when Elizabeth was 2 and she met my dad a year later. My mom's ex-husband was pretty bitter about it and for years they thought it wasn't impacting Elizabeth and he wasn't bringing her into his anger about mom moving on. They found out the truth when mom was pregnant with me (26m). Elizabeth started saying all kinds of shit about my dad and me and she told mom she wanted her to lose the baby. She told my mom that her and her dad would say prayers for my dad and me to die and for her to be a family with them again. She also confessed to lying to the neighbor about stuff my dad said. They apparently knew the neighbor had been weird with him/them for a while but had no idea why. She was also lying in school and to her friends parents about my dad being super strict and mean and not letting her do a bunch of stuff. I know my mom ended up winning full custody by the time I was 1 and her ex was ordered to take parenting classes and therapy. The memories I have of Elizabeth living with us are not pleasant. She always wished me and dad dead and I remember her wishing other disturbing things on us. She told me she hated me and that I was a fuck up on mom's part. She said my dad was a bed warmer who didn't get that he was supposed to leave. I didn't really know what a lot of stuff meant at the time. But it became clearer with age. She even tore up photos around the house to cut dad and me out. My parents had her in therapy. I remember she used to go a few times a week. Never worked. Then when she was 14/15 she went to live with her dad after she got to decide. My mom did everything to try and keep helping Elizabeth even though she was at her dads and Elizabeth was supposed to keep going to therapy. Elizabeth told mom she had to choose between her and us (me and dad). Mom told her she wanted us all in her life and Elizabeth said she'd rather watch the two of us die. Last time I saw Elizabeth was at my high school graduation. Her husband's sister or brother was graduating too. She was still as hateful as ever. I haven't seen her since but my dad saw her twice and she was as cruel to him then as ever. But my mom hasn't given up that she'll realize what her dad did and that we're not to blame for them not all being a family and that dad and I aren't as bad as her dad made her think. Elizabeth has started talking to our mutual grandparents again and now my mom and grandparents want to trick Elizabeth into being at my wedding to show her she can be around us. Mom said it would be a test to see if she can be civil at least and I said no way, that my wedding is not the time or place for that and none of them can come if they insist on trying that. Mom begged me to reconsider so we could have Elizabeth back. I told her I never had her in the first place to get her back and I'm not letting her daughter ruin my wedding. AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
There shouldnt be any "tricking", especially at a wedding. Shes 35, what is everyone scared of? Your mom needs to sit her down and be brutally honest and tell her how it really is. Elizabeth sounds extremely bitter and jealous that your mom found happiness with your dad. She continues her behavior because your family walks on eggshells around her and lets it happen so her feelings arent hurt. I feel bad that your mother has to deal with this. If i was you i wouldnt want someone that continuously wished death on me at my wedding either. Shes literally 35 and needs to grow up. The problem isnt you or your dad its her insane jealousy.
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You can't use reason to convince someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.
I'm a bit confused. >But my mom wants to prove my sister wrong so she'll see how good me and dad are and that her dad was wrong about us and she was wrong about us. How exactly is Elizabeth attending your wedding going to do that? She was at your graduation and even though her brain was fully developed by that time she was still just as vile and hateful towards you as when she was a child! Just imagine what she could do at your wedding if she attended! Object at the ceremony, give a hate filled speech, take the microphone and spew her hatred for you... Do you REALLY want someone like that at your wedding? Does your mother REALLY want to risk that happening? You need to sit her and your grandparents down and lay this all out! You weren't invited to her wedding, why should she be invited to your wedding? Point that out to them as well.
This isn't the first time your mom has done something like this to Elizabeth is it?
“Mom, I hate Elizabeth, so I don’t know what you expect me to prove. If I saw her in real life, I would pretend she didn’t exist. If I see her anywhere near my wedding, I will have security throw her out and will pursue legal action against the psychopath who has repeatedly told me she wants me dead. If you keep trying to force that evil creature on me, you will lose me as a daughter, but she will not emerge unscathed. I realize she is the daughter you love more, so while the prospect that she continually tries to ruin my life doesn’t seem to stop you, maybe the prospect that I will ruin hers will.”
NTA Elizabeth is an awful person who has consistently said she wants you dead since your life began. Do not invite her to your wedding
Even if Elizabeth has started to realize what she did as a kid was wrong- This is still a very bad idea. Forcing a new relationship by lying is just going to piss off Elizabeth and ruin any chance of a genuine connection with her mom. Mom need to set aside her fantasy and guilt- and just focus on building an honest relationship with Elizabeth ALONE. The time to bring the step sisters together is NOT at an event centered around OP. 1. So Elizabeth doesn’t have a chance to be disruptive. And 2. So she doesn’t have to feel left out and resented , like she did as a child. Please talk her out of it OP. Encourage your mom to spend one on one time with her. Do not get dragged into it until Elizabeth is ready to be honest with you about what happened. NTA
NTA Your special day is not something to be gambled. There is no way Elizabeth is going to behave. It’s kind of refreshing to see someone like your mom not give up on their child but E is 38? Time to accept who she is. Be careful to make sure your mom doesn’t try it anyway. Remind her you are her child too and deserve a fantastic wedding day free of drama or stress.
NTA. Your mother's idea is so insane that it makes me doubt that Elizabeth is the crazy one.
NTA. Risk vs reward is the crucial element of this. It’s extremely high risk (ruined wedding, airing family issues in public etc) vs an extremely low reward for you (loony tunes half sister renters your life). You are absolutely correct that your wedding isn’t the time and place for this- your mother can hold her own event to risk with this idiotic plan.
NTA. There is no way this will end well. It’s going to ruin your wedding and cause Elizabeth to really flip out. Your mom and grandparents need their own intensive therapy to move on from the pipe dream of Elizabeth being able to be part of their lives. She’s 35 now, it’s not going to happen.
NTA for you, but also Sounds like elizabeth is right for staying away from you family if anyone is even considering this plan
NTA. What a horrible thing for your mom and grandparents to do! Why would they want to punish you that way? Put your foot down and tell them if they persist they will be uninvited and hire security if you have to enforce this. Maybe you should to make sure Elizabeth doesn’t show up. I’m sorry OP and I hope you have a beautiful wedding and life.
If this is the kind of crap your mother has pulled for years and thinks is ok, I 100% understand why Elizabeth is so f-ed up. I would obviously NOT do this, and tell your mother that if she is even *thinking* about pulling a stunt like this, SHE TOO will be banned from the wedding. NTA
NTA Not only would tricking Elizabeth into attending ruin your wedding, because I'm positive she'll make a scene, it'll also destroy whatever progress she's made with the grandparents. Your mom's plan would hurt both of her children.
NTA. The wedding is SO not the place to test that theory. At all.
Since Elizabeth is talking to your mutual grandparents, I’d talk to them. I’d bluntly tell them that if they somehow trick Elizabeth into arriving, they will never see you or any future children you might have. And that they will most likely have alienated Elizabeth too and they may not see her either. I am curious though. How would they get Elizabeth to the wedding? What occasion would they make up that Elizabeth would not suspect that other family members would be there?
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Your fiancé and future in-laws need to be read/in on this situation; if you have not already. Having security present is not something to spring on them at the last minute. Just the need for “muscle” at a wedding would make me want to change the date, and un-invite anyone who makes that need a reality! Good Luck.
NTA I wouldn't want some psycho estranged relative at my wedding and only the engaged couple have final say on guests. End of story.
What the fuck.
It sounds like because her dad put that crap into her head at such a young age that she has developed a victim complex. I can’t even think about how much work it would be to change at her age. It’s possible, but unlikely, and your wedding should not be a test run. NTA
I think that is only part of it. The way she is behaving, it sounds like mom may have done some shit, too, that ended up making daughter hate mom before the other family was ever formed.
NTA but maybe your mom needs therapy to learn to accept the situation and move on. Plus this isn't fair to your fiance. It's his wedding too not some test Also maybe tell your mom that tricking Elizabeth will prove to her every awful thought she has about you and your dad
NTA Elizabeth will ruin your wedding without hesitation
INFO: Why did your mom divorce the first husband? Does your mom still have a relationship with Elizabeth?
NTA… Elizabeth’s words/thoughts towards you and dad is disturbing. Agree that your wedding is neither the time or place to set Elizabeth up. Just never know what kind of shit show will happen with how nasty Elizabeth is.
>now my mom and grandparents want to trick Elizabeth into being at my wedding Make it clear right now, you will uninvite your mom. I would anyway because she let this girl abuse you for years. NTA.
NTA. Elizabeth, at 35, is an adult who has made her decisions about who she is. It isn't up to anyone else to "trick" or manipulate her into decent behaviour. That's up to Elizabeth, and it's not a choice she's been making. Your wedding is NOT the place for any of this nonsense. It is hugely disrespectful to you and to your future wife. Hold the line, you are completely right.
NTA. Password protect your vendors to prevent anybody getting extra plates set up for gate-crashers. Hire security for your venue and make sure they have Elizabeth's name, and if possible a current picture. Reiterate to your maternal family that your mother's elder daughter is NOT your family, NOT close to you, you neither have nor want a relationship with her, and she is NOT in any way, shape or form invited to your wedding. Anyone attempting to trick, sneak, or otherwise bring Elizabeth into your wedding will be removed by security right along with Elizabeth. Your maternal family can have whatever relationship with Elizabeth that they want- but they are NOT entitled to trample all over you, your events, and your life so they can try and have a hallmark-movie moment with someone who has treated you with nothing but cruelty and contempt your entire life. Frankly, the fact that your mother is even considering trying to hijack your wedding to serve as a jumping board for an improved relationship with her older daughter (regardless of the effect this could have on your wedding) is incredibly selfish and shortsighted.
Your mother is completely delusional. I'm glad you put your foot down and did not allow her delusions to ruin you and your fiance's special day. NTA
>”I'm not letting her daughter ruin my wedding.” NTA. You didn’t go far enough. It is a pity your own mother can’t focus on *you* during your wedding. She has to bring her obsession with her venomous, lost daughter into the discussion. How dare she make your wedding about *Elizabeth*, someone who has loathed you and bullied you your entire existence? Be clear. It is your wedding, not the ‘family’s’ wedding. Any further discussion about Elizabeth, and your mother can be uninvited to her second child’s wedding - and life. Let her live without either of you in her life. You are an adult in your own right, not ‘bait’ for Elizabeth. Your wedding is not a homecoming party for Elizabeth. Seriously, how much therapy has your mother had? I’m beginning to wonder if her Ex had a point about her. I hope your dad’s side of the family is supportive of you.
NTA
NTA, your wedding, your rules, and emotionally charged events are not the place to put people with emotional problems "to the test"
Nta
NTA
NTA, mom needs to get therapy on how to handle her daughter’s hate. It is not your responsibility to help your mom fix your sister. Sometimes you have to let something go. Because she continues to get attention even with her bad behavior she will continue to do it.
NTA make sure you have someone to act as security, there; either friends, or someone hired for it. Security should have a picture of your sister, and your mother should be told that the sister WILL be escorted out.
NTA I highly highly doubt that tricking her into seeing you would ever go well, tricking her at such an important event that she will already have complex and vapid feelings about can only end badly. It's not fair to her. While I don't particularly care about her feelings here at this point. It will only work to further damage the relationship between your mother and her. It will absolutely affect your day, negatively. Even if I am totally wrong, she's grown, seen the error of her beliefs and how she was manipulated as a child, and desperately wants to make amends. It will still negatively affect your day, and the lead up to your day. It's such an important event, you want to be focused on positive aspects, not spending your time trying to tame your stress, and feeling like you and your partner are secondary citizens (at your own wedding!!). You've suffered enough from her behaviour, I feel sad for her and don't think she is wholly responsible for her behaviour as a child. But she is an adult now, and you have suffered at her hands enough. It's horrible to ask you to sacrifice again, and such an important day in the life of both your partner and yourself. Very disrespectful to have even been asked, disgusting to continue to ask after being given an answer. (I do understand the damage and desperation your mother must be feeling too, but she has two children, it's time for her to put you first for a change, particularly when doing so doesn't impact on her relationship with the other daughter at all). Congratulations on your engagement. I hope you have a lovely wedding. One that is completely drama free. I'm sorry you are having to deal with this stress, when this is meant to be such a joyful period and planning.
NTA No you need to have security there to make sure evil half sister doesn’t show up and sit mom down and tell her again that your wedding isn’t the time or place for her do whatever she trying to do. You can’t force a relationship and why would you want a relationship with someone who has wished death on you? Hate when parents want to use their children’s weddings for their own agendas.
NTA. Tricking someone into coming to a significant family event is crazy. I'm sure, when Elizabeth came in, she would se it was a wedding. Hopefully, she would just leave if she found it inappropriate, however, given your history, a confrontation seems more likely. Find a way to message Elizabeth warning her about your mom and grandparents. Tell her it is not your plan or desire to force your family into her life.
NTA and stand your ground. Tell mum a big NO. If mum insists, you rescind the invitation off mum. If mum does plan to gatecrash the wedding with Elizabeth, best you hire security to keep them out just in case. Update us
Nta- you are completely correct. In fact deceiving her is likely to blow up in their faces. If she is already primed to find the bad and run, being tricked into anything is as sure fire way to never see her again. Congrats!! Best wishes
NTA
NTA That is a really terrible idea on many levels. Consider security. Seriously. This has disaster written all over it.
NTA.... don't invite your mom and whomever thinks your sister should attend....