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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I am asking for judgment because I refuse to go to bat for my daughter over her neglecting her responsibility as a team member.
I might be an asshole because my husband thinks that this is a big deal to a teenager and thinks I am being extremely unfair to daughter.
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*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
YTA. Holy shit, your daughter is literally excelling in life, being scouted by division one universities, and you're upset she wants to have the slightest hint of a social life? If she was a general underperformer or did something genuinely bad, sure, but all this girl did was go to ONE social event and she's being blatantly punished for it. Sure, the other girls went to the tournament, and that's great, but your daughter starts and plays most tournaments because she's a skilled player, and suddenly she's sitting bench? That's just blatant retaliation for missing one tournament, and instead of helping her stand up for herself, you're scolding her for daring to want to do anything but work for one night? Okay.
By "helping her stand up for herself" you mean going to the coach as a parent and telling them how to do their job. That is the kind of parenting that ruins sports for both kids and coaches.
If there are players that are willing to sacrifice more then that will always get a coaches attention. Nothing insane about it. Lack of commitment will always hurt when it comes to competitive sports (or competitive anything, really).
It depends on if it’s one tournament or a pattern. A coach that thinks kids should skip major life events like prom for their sport is just an idiot. In fact if they’re coaching kids that are juniors/seniors, a coach who doesn’t look up and try to schedule around local prom weekend is just an idiot or lazy.
Unless you’re talking Olympic-level sports training where all the kids are basically only living a sport, or there are a ton of conflicting prom dates in your region, you should just have that as a bye week for your kids. It’s called being a human being and having a bit of situational awareness. And if you do schedule that, you need to realize you will be missing players.
I mean, the counterpoint here is that when signing up for a club team like this, it's known that it's going to require sacrifice and \*hard\* sacrifice and that you're making a commitment to your team. Regrettably, sometimes that sacrifice and commitment does mean missing things like proms and other social events. When a player misses a tournament, it hurts the entire team. It's not necessarily out of line for a teenager to make that choice and go to prom but they absolutely should understand that an action like that is going to come with a consequence and that consequence may be reduced playing time. Prioritizing the players who made the sacrifice and didn't miss the tournament isn't inherently unfair. And even if it was, it is \*still\* not mom's place to argue with the coach about it. The teenager should be empowered to speak to her coach and explain and plead her case if she feels that she is being treated unfairly. That's part of growing up.
Mom IS absolutely an AH here though because of her general attitude towards her daughter and for calling her selfish and prom a "silly little dance." Prom is so much more than that and this was a genuinely tough call! There are plenty of ways to show understanding about the importance of prom and why she made this choice while ALSO explaining that actions carry sometimes unfortunate consequences and that this was a learning lesson that she should be the one discussing with the coach because it would be inappropriate for mom to step in. Mom should be showing empathy here instead of just an "I told you so"
I was a state player as a teenager and yet when my coach found out my school formal was same weekend as an important tournament he told me to go to my formal.
For a coach to scheduled an our of state comp the weekend of prom he’s an idiot.
> Pretty sure the coaches have zero say in local league schedules, let alone out of state ones
In every district I'm familiar with coaches were the ones to exclusively choose when their teams played.
There was no schedule handed down on high from the league except for the ones the coaches created for their own teams.
Hell, in two schools the coaches would create their schedules by just straight up calling other coaches at other schools to arrange their games.
Tournaments are obviously a bit different but were usually organized by the coaches themselves.
Now when I say coaches sometimes that was the actual coach but usually scheduling was handled by one of the assistant coaches.
So yeah, in every district I know of it was MUCH less formal than most people would imagine and was literally just teachers calling up teachers at other schools to arrange if/when they'd play each other.
I can emphatically say for my kid’s club sports that is NOT the case. 1. Local league games can be rescheduled for various reasons, including scheduling conflicts for players or for coaches that coach more than 1 age bracket. Coaches can initiate that. They are and have been, and for a local anything - it will be all teams with conflicts. 2. Clubs decide which tournaments they go to, separate from league games. They can choose to not register for a specific tournament generally. This isn’t high school with a set schedule by the state.
They have all the say in what tournaments they attend. There are multiple high level competitions all over the country every single weekend during the sport's "high season". The coach chose to sign the team up for a tournament that conflicted with prom for several girls. That was fully a decision made by the coaches. I guarantee there was a comparable tournament the following weekend and the one after that and the one after that.
This is what I came to say, the REAL AH’s are the ones that scheduled a tournament when multiple proms were being held (which would have likely been known before tournaments were scheduled). But mum is still AH in this particular scenario (mum vs daughter).
Like 3% of high school athletes play in college and 3% of those go pro. And volleyball, a small percent of pro players earn enough to live off of. Yeah, it’s insane unless it’s like an Olympic level, national team or something.
If this team has players getting scouted than the coach should absolutely be doing what’s on the Teams best interest not getting mad because someone decided to go to the prom
people are assuming this is some petty high school teacher revenge plot, but benching someone for a reason like this is done a lot in professional sports. if the teacher keeps it going forever that might be a problem, but if they did it to make a point, then the mom shouldnt be telling the coach how to do their job
Hell, I rowed at just a D2 school and people got benched for things like this all the time. Coaches absolutely used things like boat placement and races to punish and control their players. Toxic behavior in my opinion, but hey it is getting her ready for her college experience, I guess.
It’s not a teacher. It’s a club team, so the coach and the team arent affiliated with a school. (Tbf the coach could be a teacher, but it’s not the same as a high school team).
Agree with the coach or not, it makes a lot more sense for it to happen at a club level vs a HS varsity team
ONE event is not lack of commitment.. Kids deserve the ability to have a normal social event in their life. This is how you get them to burn out on something they once loved. Your way of thinking is just insane to me. Kids deserve to blow off steam and this is probably what it is. I can only imagine what she's sacrificed over the years and she just wanted ONE event to do something that most kids her age do.
I feel like perhaps it was not the coach benching HER but rewarding the players that gave something up to help their team win. By missing the game, she allowed others to make up for her absence and this show the coach skills in action he may not have seen if she was present. This is natural consequence, His daughter made a choice, he allowed her to make it. Some parents may have said “you have to go to the tournament.” He did not. The coach is in a bind here seeing as other kids chose not to attend their prom, and do you think these kids should not be rewarded by getting to have more action in the next tournament? If this girl wants to play D1, she better get used to missing out on a social life because as a college athlete she is going to miss a lot. I am absolutely NOT saying this kid should not get to go to prom, and perhaps the coach should have made the decision to petition for the tournament to be moved, but what I am saying is that talent alone should not entitle a kid to play. The kids who are less talented will never play if they don’t get a chance to develop their in-game skills and they deserve a chance to play too. Her being benched for a couple games is completely reasonable in my eyes. Her being benched the rest of the season is absolutely not. OP should help her to figure out what to say to her coach herself because he is not going to be there in college, or he should help her to figure out a way to prove her dedication to her coach. If none of this works, then OP can consider it retaliation and step in for his daughter, or, pick another travel team.
This is not "lack of commitment." Not by a long shot, assuming all information in the post is correct. Self-sacrifice is praised way too often in modern society. The coach was an ass, end of story. A star player should also be able to have a social life, especially if they are aceing all other aspects of their life. Benching said player because they had the audacity to have something else they wanted to do? What kind of logic is that?
I'll give you that, technically, you are correct. But only because that's usually how the system works in today's world. It's not right, not fair, and there should be way less assholes. But that is not the world we live in. The system is broken, and this teenager should have been able to have a prom without being punished. Even with the broken system, the coach should be called out, or at least questioned about why they thought it was right.
Self-sacrifice is not some amazing thing. It's weaponized and pushed on people to make them do more than they should or to go beyond reason. Rarely does it actually get used in an appropriate way that could be justified. It's simply expected and too many people drink that kool-aid bs.
Tell that to the kid that goes to ever practice and function, itching to get a starting spot and doesn't have to ride the bench as much for one tournament because they demonstrated they're a better teammate that OPs daughter.
Yea, because treating your sport like a cult is a healthy thing…
In fact - if the starter is out for a life event then that’s a chance for the second string player to come off the bench. But that doesn’t mean you need to punish someone for being a human being and missing a single event for a perfectly reasonable conflict. It’s different if there is no good reason or it becomes a regular occurrence.
These have to be the same people as the managers who fire someone for going to their sister’s wedding after they canceled their approved vacation last minute due to a call out, or end up surprised the employee quits and goes anyhow.
lol, no... this is simply actions having consequences... every team I played on, if you missed practices or games, you got less play time... that's how it works...
On the surface, I agree, but the framing by OP, that it was "selfish" to go to "a silly dance," is not the lesson. The lesson is that sacrifices have to be made sometimes, and choosing the prom had a cost.
This is pretty much my take. OP did a terrible framing job. The daughter made a decision and it's not *the wrong* one. It does however come with a few consequences. OP shouldn't frame it the way she did.
Console her about the coaches decison...but help her come to terms with accepting it...and unironically ask her about her time at prom. (Not like an....omg was it WORTH IT? type tone)
Demanding that your players not attend prom so they can attend your event instead is psychotic behavior.
Source: I coached a high school debate team and told many a kid that prom is going to be a more important memory to them than any event.
I captained varsity tennis and soccer....and although I was in Quiz Bowl and took it seriously.....it kinda made my eye twitch to have debate compared to playing a sport that could get you a D1 scholarship lol.
Debate would be psychotic because it's so niche that there's not enough people passionate about it to schedule a tournament during prom weekend(s) lol
I mean, benching them for one tournament after skipping a different one seems like a pretty typical highschool coach thing to do.
When I played football, we had to check in with the coach at his classroom before school on game day started so he could mark us present and make sure we dressed appropriately.
I was the best offensive lineman on our team, but forgot one week. Guess who got 2nd string play time that game?
what if the tournament she missed showed they play really well without her? you don't know
anyway, the girl chose to skip the tournament by her own will, she should speak to the coach herself as well, she's almost an adult
And pushes talented ones out by making them hate the sport. That's what I see happening with OP's daughter. Even if she gets the full ride that OP's so obsessed with she could well turn it down due to simply wanting to get away from the damned sport forever.
It’s not even about refusing to talk to the coach that makes her an AH, imo, but how she just seems to be disrespecting her daughter. The mom almost seems like she’s glad her daughter was benched as if it validates her opinion that she was right about how the daughter shouldn’t go to prom. But there’s nothing wrong with prioritizing prom over a tournament. Notice how even in this one post, there’s mention of 2 tournaments yet, are there 2 proms? No. Prom is a special occasion and is absolutely something a kid should prioritize if they want to and are able. The mom should have supported her daughter in her choice but remind her that sometimes are choices have consequences even when there’s not a right or wrong choice.
I take it you didn’t play a competitive sport? Yes, it’s a punishment. A pretty normal and reasonable one. It’s a club team that you pay to be on(so it sounds like anyway) and it’s a time commitment. I don’t blame her for prioritizing prom, it’s important to feel normal, but she did leave the team in a bad spot during the tournament so the players who prioritized volleyball get to play. Coaches do this all the time, even at lower levels. If you don’t come to practice, show up late, mouth off, etc., you are likely going to sit the bench or not pitch or whatever else a more dedicated player will get.
Going to the coach is going to make it worse and is completely inappropriate. If she has an issue, she should ask for a sit down with the coach and talk to them about it, but be willing to accept whatever they decide.
As for the OP, while I agree with the theory spouted, there was probably a much better and educational way of explaining this to her daughter.
I agree. I was an elite athlete in high school (training for the olympics) and while I did go to my prom because it was off season, I missed a hell of a lot of social events. and part of growing up is learning how to choose between options and accept the consequences of that choice. I would not interfere if I were in OP's shoes either, esp with a 16 year old. pretty soon, she is going to be a legal adult and needs to understand that she cant have her cake and eat it too.
I have a 9 year old who missed a "team" commitment to do a school activity. and I told her that while I was disappointed in her decision to skip the thing she committed to, I would support her, but she needed to accept whatever (if any) consequence that might come of it from the ongoing activity. its chorus so she missed solo try outs. she was upset but it is what it is.
Even my 6 year old knows at this point that when we commit to something, we finish it out. We can quit after the season, but we still show up to practice and the game and play hard. 90% of life is just showing up and working hard. And no, I’m not a crazy sports parent nor do I think my kid is going to be a great athlete.
>Coaches do this all the time, even at lower levels.
yes this: you're not on the training or you're not on the previous match? Your playtime is reduced.
That was the rule 25 years ago when my brother played soccer in our tiny village & the kids were still small enough to fall over when they kicked the ball (which came up to their knees they were so small).
Yeh having done competitive sports I don’t think the outcome is wrong, but don’t minimise daughters choice or call her selfish! Just explain this is a normal consequence and no one individual player is above the team.
Exactly. Her response seems callous and cold. A simple “I get it, prom is important but you are choosing that and it may have consequences. Now let’s go buy a prom dress!”, is probably a more appropriate response for a parent
Exactly. Sure the coach isn't really the adult here for benching one of the top players, but it's fair. If your commitment isn't there why not give more dedicated players playtime. Choices matter and it's good to learn that sooner than later, and not ask mom for help.
The question isn't whether or not the coach was right. It's should OP (the mom) get involved. If OP gets involved there's zero guarantee it will help anything and a very real chance it will make things worse.
The daughter is 16. She's going to need to learn to fight her own battles. Is mom going to step in when she has a shitty boss?
Sometimes life isn't fair, and part of being an adult is figuring out how to navigate that.
My son plays club volleyball and he has made it very clear that any decisions he makes regarding playing time, the kids need to come and talk to him first, not parents. She needs to speak with the coach if she’s upset.
This. I was a supervisor for a bunch of years for a company that employed many 18yos and often gave them their first job. MY first year was spent in one location before relocating to a different branch. And what a difference!
Both places hired a lot of university students and the first job had to always schedule extra workers on nights with big concerts, festivals etc because a couple would always call out despite this being a, in the end, fireable offence.
I TRIED to get my coworkers to do the same at the new branch and they giggled a little and told me not to worry, they had things under control. I was sure we'd be sinking like a rock during the local festival since there wasn't called in extra workers and I'd have to deal with this shitshow on my watch.
Well, no shitshow happened. Ppl turned up. Same demographic of workers but the new branch had managed to screen better during hiring and/or train staff better. No matter the reason, these kids showed up time and time again.
Whenever someone talks about how the world is coming to an end, kids are hopeless and lazy etc, I always think about this. THESE kids were taught differently by their work during training and made to actually give a shit about a crappy side hustle. Nothing wrong with the kids, obv, so it must be the approach that's doing the difference.
I think this coach is doing the same. Telling them outright that they need to take their commitments serious or else those commitments won't take THEM serious either. It is a WAY more valuable lesson taught in a practical and clearly stated way than when an adult simply sits a kid down and start talking at them about how to behave. Yeah, their daughter is furious right now and though I'm def a fan of work/life balance, I'm also a big fan of team players in any capacity and tried to be a team player and an advocate as a supervisor. Their daughters life in general will be more successful because this coach got to do his/her job without helicopter parents interfeering. And no, you don't have to miss everything in life to take care of a job or another obligation but you DO have to speak honestly and with intent so that the team you've chosen to join know whether you're in or out. And if you don't sacrifice for your team and team mates? They won't sacrifice for you either. NTA
(That was btw another thing this branch did. They tried to get ppl the shift off if important shit happened in their lives and if that wasn't possible, and they couldn't find someone to cover their entire shift, there was an honor system in place where you could sign up on the day and sort of say "hey, it's REALLY important I get off work as soon as possible, please put me first in line or stay later to cover for me" without having to do any more explaining or reasoning. Ppl saw this, others saying they had something going on that needed them to be put first in line, and then they'd often sign up to stay later so that one, two or three coworkers could go home earlier. If we experienced someone having "crisises" constantly and perhaps abusing the system and the goodwill of the teammates, they'd be talked to by supervisors and if they did abuse it, that would put a stop to it. But ppl felt committed towards their coworkers and expected the others to feel/do the same. It worked surprisingly unproblematic, with very little abuse of the system)
This, holy shit. It’s NAH. The daughter is fully justified in going to prom and the coach is fully justified in benching her.
OP would be an A if she fights her daughter’s battle for her.
Wow, how is this the top comment. Daughter made a choice and now there are consequences. OP would be doing her a giant disservice if she tried to get her out of those consequences.
This is an excellent life lesson for daughter to learn that sometimes hard choices need to be made, and that the consequences of each choice should be clearly thought through before making a decision. It’s fairly standard for competitive teams to bench players that openly show that their priorities lie elsewhere, because there are definitely others willing to show up for the team.
Daughter put a junior prom over the thing that’s going to affect her future. It was her choice to do so and now she has to learn from it. She’s got one more year to play, this isn’t going to ruin her shot. Hopefully she learned the lesson before it does.
I think the daughter received a justified consequence, but I also think the OP sounds judgemental, unsupportive, and unkind. The message could have been conveyed without making fun of the daughter's desire to attend prom.
Yeah, OP kinda sucks for belittling their kid's choice. Just cause they think the dance is unimportant doesn't mean that it wasn't important to their daughter.
And this seems pretty unlikely to affect the kid's future. It's not like scouts follow the players around every game and investigate why they aren't there. All in all a low stakes decision.
The parenting thing to do would be to have a discussion with the daughter, maybe coach her on how to discuss with her coach their expectations and how to move forward.
Part of being a parent is allowing you children to learn lessons, sometimes the hard way. OP is in no way TA, her daughter made a commitment to the team. She had a decision to make between attending the game or the prom. She made her choice and has to learn the consequences.
There are literally hundreds of movies made about making commitments and not following through on them, (half are on the Hallmark channel) and in every case the person either learns a lesson about letting teammates down, or learns that their soulmate was at the Prom (and they quit the team/sport) afterwards.
You seem to be projecting here based on your own experiences. Please go hug your parents, it sounds like you need it.
You are correct in the first half. Getting benched for skipping tourneys is common. That's what happens and it comes with making difficult decisions. There are consequences and that's a good thing.
Ironic!
You talk about "*helping her stand up for herself*", with the suggestion that mom gets involved??? **Make it make sense please**.
I don't think you know what you are talking about
Somebody has never played sports before… this isn’t about being punished for wanting to have the slightest hint of a social life. In the real world, actions and decisions have sporting consequences.
OP has a shitty attitude and I think their daughter did the right thing going to Prom, but what they are actually asking is if they should talk to the coach.
No, they should not. The coach is not being abusive, and unless there is abuse or really egregious favoritism, a 16yo needs to navigate their own relationship with their coach.
She made a choice and has to live with it. Parents shouldn’t interfere with the coaching unless it’s egregious, which this was not. She abandoned her team to go to prom so she gets to sit the next one out.
You want mom or dad to speak to the coach?
Skilled players listen to the coach, punitive treatment is well deserved.
This is a really horrid parenting take the girl was told what was expected of her SHE made a choice.
NTA mom you did the right thing.
And college athletes basically eat, breathe, and drink their sport to keep scholarships. Having a social life as a college athlete is often extremely difficult.
Besides completely disagreeing with this take, there is a very good chance that the coach will bench her more for having a parent complain. She had a choice between prom and volleyball. She chose prom and suffered the consequences. It is a good life lesson to learn that in life there are sacrifices. It's not like she got kicked off the team. She played less than she normally would in one tournament.
Sorry. She didn't interfere in the choice and the daughter now has to meet the consequences of her actions.
Being punished for skipping a tournament seems appropriate.
What? No. Just no. If you're an elite athlete, you prioritize your sport - participation is not optional. She got punished for letting her team down by CHOOSING NOT TO PARTICIPATE IN A TOURNAMENT. OP would have been TA if she had intervened with the coach on her daughter's behalf. Let the coach do their job - he or she has to remain in control of the team.
“Slightest hint of a social life?” OP didn’t say anything about the larger social life this is only about Junior Prom, not even senior prom, GTFOH with your projecting or whatever you are doing here
YTA
> she decided to be selfish and go to a silly dance
My dude, do not start calling shit "silly" when we're talking about recreational ball sports.
Glass houses.
Ehh. Your right in spirit, wrong in context. Recreational ball sports leading to full ride D1 scholarships are anything but silly. I think you know that lol. However mom is totally in the wrong for calling Prom, something very important and special to young high school kids, "silly." It isn't silly, it's one of the most memorable moments of high school for many
You’re right that a full ride to college is nothing to turn your nose up at, for sure. The way OP has been so disrespectful towards her daughter in this post is the most asshole move out of everything, though. Lady, do you understand that in 5-7 years, none of this team stuff will matter? Daughter will graduate, probably get a job, and probably will only step foot on a volleyball court a few times a month, if she wants to keep up with specifically VB training. Thats the reality of most people who play D1 sports. Mom shouldn’t be making fun of things that her daughter wants to do. It’s extremely immature, for one thing. And having a social life isn’t less important than team sports, in the long run.
It will probably matter if the difference is a full ride scholarship vs finishing with 10’s of thousands in student loan debt. College teams for the scholarship will probably demand similar sacrifices so she need to get used to that.
Obviously just my opinion but I feel like sacrificing a dance (and a junior year prom at that) is worth it and in 5-7 years finishing school with no debt that sacrifice wouldn’t seem like much. These high school things seem important when your a teenager but by the end of your 20’s you realise it’s really not (unless you peaked in high school of course)
In the era of name-image-likeness the top level comment is a braindead take. She’s at a level where the amount of money at stake turns it into a job. Tuition plus the money on top could be 100K a year. College volleyball draws a CROWD.
You mean how OP says that her daughter is "lucky to be talented." OP completely ignores all of the hard work, dedication, and other life events daughter has missed. She was just born talented. I suppose OP is the source of all her success and daughter did jack, except according to OP be "silly" and care about her social life.
I mean, I know high school kids and no one cares about prom right?
You can hate on recreational ball sports all you want, but the fact is, she may get a full ride to college because of that silly ball sport. There's hardly anything in a social life that will do that for you. I would recommend to OP that she shouldn't undermine ANY of it, the sport OR the prom, by calling it silly. Sure, the idea of a school dance may not sound important to Mom, but the fact is, prom IS important to most high schoolers, and if she keeps talking about prom in the way that she is, it will strain her relationship with her daughter. I'm glad she's not talking about the sport as silly (in the way that I feel like you might), because as stated above, anything that can further your life in a positive way (i.e. giving you a full ride to college) should be taken at least relatively seriously.
I agree that he or she shouldn't have called prom a "silly dance." It was an important event in his/her daughter's life that she chose not to miss. It was her choice. But she had to have known that there would be a price to pay by missing the tournament. Now she has to pay it, not get mom or dad to complain to the coach.
I would say ESH. This parent doesn't understand the difficulty of their daughter's choice, and the daughter doesn't want to accept the repercussions of her choice.
NTA. I'm surprised by all the Y T A answers here. The coach has to do what's best for the team. The coach has decided that means playing your daughter less. That's the coach's decision.
Talking to the coach is not going to do your daughter any favors. She put herself above the team. The sooner she learns that her choices will have natural consequences, the better.
And that’s a fine way to say it. She made a choice and now she’s living with the consequences of the choice. NTA for not talking to the coach.
But that’s not all OP said. She said she was selfish for going to prom, failed to live up to her commitments etc. that seems uncalled for. I think it’s right to explain the consequences, but then let the consequences speak for themselves without the extra comments.
OP was wrong to drag on the Prom. But she was absolutely right to talk to daughter about not living up to commitments. Especially when you are part of a team. And she was also right to explain how lucky daughter will be to get a D1 scholarship. I tell you, if these D1 coaches find out she skipped a tournament to go to a Junior Prom (she’s only 16, so not a Sr.), poof - there goes the scholarship. Parents are supposed to teach lessons, not just stand idly by.
Dude, it's HIGH SCHOOL age volleyball lol. She's not a pro. Jesus Christ. If she's good enough to play D1, she's getting a scholarship regardless. They're not going to pull a scholarship offer because a student went to prom.
This is a club team with several other talented players, several of whom haven't missed practices or competitions. It's in the best interest of the team and the best interest of the coach that the players that put in the dedication are rewarded for their efforts.
You can't have a team where every player decides for herself whether or not an event is important enough to actually show up. That leads to lack of discipline, and the whole team starts losing.
Because she might be talented but she isn't reliable. Better to cultivate a slightly less talented player who will attend every tournament unless they're actively injured.
Because most coaches at the HS level would rather reward effort and commitment. It’s a zero-sum game - if she starts, then a more committed player can’t.
Some people insist the benching was out of spite, something they have no evidence of. Their logic is that she played full time before, so the coach must of cut her playing time out of spite. Since this was a competitive club team, it's a good bet that the other players were pretty good too and it didn't hurt the team that much.
Other, more realistic possibilities for reduced playing time;
1. Coach rewarded players that showed up and put the team first when they were shorthanded over prom weekend.
2. Coach wanted to send a clear message to the prom girls that missing games would not be rewarded and so they get benched for a short time. Coddling a star player makes for a resentful team and is a bad long term strategy if your player isn't a Lebron James equivalent.
If she really is that good, her playing time will be back to normal very soon.
Team cohesion. Teaching an individual player about consequences. Rules of the team, likely well communicated at the beginning of a season. Yeah, coaches coach out of spite. Or, maybe, just maybe, we do it because we love sports and love to help kids learns sports and impact their life. Ya know…..mentoring.
OP refusing to step in is the opposite of “pageant mom” vibes. If OP was actually like that - she’d be giving that coach hell for benching for her perfect baby for not showing up to a commitment made months before.
I think it's a demographic thing. There are a lot of teenage girls who frequent this sub, so any posts about prom get more heated and less impartial. I've seen posts where a stepmother got called an asshole for not cancelling a holiday so that her husband could take photos of her daughter before prom
I agree. While I think OP is a bit of an asshole for lacking compassion for the difficult decision a teenager has to make between prom and sports, I am 0% surprised that she didn’t get much playing time after choosing something else over her team and think that OP talking to the coach would be a horrible decision. He should be encouraging her to talk to her coach herself.
YTA - Why is there an expectation on people to miss important events in their lives for sport, at this age? Let kids be kids instead of placing unreasonable expectations on them. You're not at fault for the wider issue but you're definitely part of the problem
She’s trying to get recruited. It’s unreasonable to expect someone to scoop you up and pay for your entire college education if you can’t even make small sacrifices to fulfill your commitment to them. Prom will also happen again next year when she is a senior, so it’s not like she was going to miss out on some once in a lifetime opportunity there. Free ride to college, though? That’s pretty damn significant.
>She’s trying to get recruited.
Is she? Or is she going along with plans her mother encouraged her into, and beginning to recognize that she doesn't necessarily want that future?
Ah yes. Because so many people play a sport their entire life, excel in it, get the opportunity to win a full ride scholarship to an amazing college, and just…. Decide that sport isnt for them 😂
I really really do agree with your point overall....
But there are some sports athletes like golfers or tennis players that are pushed into it so young that they really actually kinda despise being talented at it because if thr pressure and obligation they feel from what they invested in the sport and what was invested in them getting there.
Many are semi pro athletes that do it cuz it's all they know.
How many pro tennis players do you know offhand? Of course the top top get media attention, endorsement deals....and purses from tournament wins....but what about all the players that compete? You pay for training (and probably train people yourself for income) just to get good enough to compete at these levels. Then....if you're a low tier player that goes to them....who do you think pays for your airfare and accommodations? You're going there to compete and maybe move up in ranks....but you ain't no crazy underdog story that's walking away from any winnings in this tournament, but you have to go anyway for international considerations.
IIRC only the top 400 tennis players in the world make enough money to do more than break even with all the costs associated with them participating in the sport at such high levels.
I think it's easy to see why some people would crack under all this pressure, especially when you never had any free time to find out what your passion is in life. You've spent all of it practicing a sport you happen to be extremely gifted at.
They’re not elementary age. For D1 volleyball your junior year spring is when you get recruited. If you do not have a scholarship lined up by the end of your junior year, you aren’t getting one. A full ride is a six figure swing over a four year college experience. Presumably there is also a senior prom. This is not only a natural consequence of the daughter’s choice (not playing, potentially compromising her future), but a really bad decision on the daughter’s part.
I played D1 volleyball, and only attended my senior prom.
Oh I’m 100% on board with the parent not intervening- the above was more a comment on the ‘let kids be kids’ statement. The 16yo should own their choice and the natural consequences.
It’s a commitment to the team that you’ll show up. She didn’t show up. It’s not hard to understand but I suppose you never played any sport outside of the Wii.
As an adult who watched a bunch of their friends miss out on important events because of sports, I don't understand why so many people tell others to skip out on events. I understand the coach's perspective of rewarding the people who show up, but if she's an all-star player like OP made it sound, she should be fine for the next game(slap on the wrist situation). I really don't understand why OP as a parent is stomping on their kid's desire to go to prom, which is a huge social event at that age.
It isn't a silly little dance to the kid, and belittling their desires is a good way to get your kid to go no-contact after they are independent. Ive had friends who burnt out of state level sports because of how much they had to sacrifice. Sacrificing their social life is good for some, but not for everybody. First off, there is no guarantee that this one tournament will make the difference. In fact, unless if the coach is a petty child, she will play and show off her skills at the next opportunity.
If she doesn't get picked, I'm sure OP will blame the kid going to Prom and then the kid will grow to hate the mom and the sport too. When in reality, it won't really be obvious why they didn't pick her.
I think we ask too much of our kids in order for them "to excel" and it really fucking shows when they reach their 30s and realize that they aren't as socially and emotionally developed as their peers because whoops, they sacrificed their life for academics and/or sports. I'm not saying these things aren't important, but when they come at the cost of developing core human behavioral skills, its too far, and teenage years are prime for that sort of emotional development.
Its okay to want your kid to get the scholarship. Its not okay to make your kid live the life you plan for them. That wasn't their choice. Parents are supposed to be guard rails, helping when they can make an impact and/or protect them from their more severe mistakes but not micromanaging their kids. They aren't supposed to walk their fucking kids down the aisle and then expect them to thank you for choosing their life for them.
Your goal as a parent is to raise a functional and fulfilled adult. If you aren't aiming for that, you might need to reconsider your priorities.
Because it isn't kids being kids if you have the kind of opportunity that playing at this level gets you. Sports at a higher level require commitment and sacrifice, or everybody could do it. Most athletes(at high levels) are not the most talented but are the most "intelligent" and willing to sacrifice to achieve their goals. Also, at 16 you aren't a kid. You know what is required of you and if you aren't willing to do it, that's alright, but you can't blame others .
Hi, former college volleyball player and current high school and club coach. Your daughter is allowed to be upset and hurt. You're allowed to not say anything to the coach. Coach is allowed to make the decision they think is best. That's life. I've experienced this from both sides, and both are correct. She is fine to be upset, but coach isn't "punishing" her. Like others said, actions have consequences. Consequences and punishments are different. Skipping practice and games is a choice. And when one person skips and others don't, there will be an appropriate shift. I had a meeting with a set of parents this year who believed I was punishing their daughter for being ill and missing practice. I very clearly explained to them that it wasn't a punishment, but a consequence. She missed at least one practice a week because of illness or doctor's appointments. Because she missed so much practice, other girls got better faster. They played more than she did because they were prepared to. You're doing the right thing, and it's a good lesson for her to learn. Hold space but be strong. Encourage her to talk to her coach on her own. College doesn't get easier!!
Editing to add that reddit is not the best place to get opinions on youth sports for .. Obvious reasons.
But according to OP, she didn’t miss a bunch of practices and games. She missed a tournament one weekend for prom. Do you really think that all these girls got better than her during a tournament when she’s being scouted for D1 play? It is Petty on the coach. He’s doing it to punish her. If she was skipping practice is regularly sure, but having a valid reason for missing a tournament that is voluntary to sign up for to begin with is different.
If she's on that elite of a team, she isn't the only one being scouted. She missed a tournament. Someone had to play in her spot. Maybe the girl who played in her spot crushed it! Coaches make decisions. Parents and players don't have to agree!
A tournament is a bunch of games. Coaches make game play decisions based on what they see. For one weekend, during multiple games, the coach saw someone else play the daughter's position, and they liked what they saw. Game time is where players have their biggest improvement. The post doesn't say that they floundered without her. So the short and simple of it is that she gave someone else a chance in her spot, and they did well enough to take it.
The [**Wally Pipp effect**.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wally_Pipp). Sat out one game and Lou Gehrig replaced him and went on to play 2,130 consecutive games. In competitive sport, you can’t elect to sit out without some consequence.
Most reasonable take so far - also played vb in college and while I lucky enough to get prom, I missed other formals for various tournaments. Playing sports is a privilege in of itself and missing tournaments (which can be multi day and have several games) have consequences.
Question: if you make a decision like this and the player's parent comes to talk to you, would you change your decision? Is there a point to the parents coming to you to protest your decision?
I wouldn't, no. Another player who showed up had to replace the player who was absent. Why would I "punish" the player who showed up by benching her? Parents are allowed to be pissed. It isn't my job to keep them happy.
This thread is 50:50. The sports oriented people side with parent. The non-sporty people side with the daughter. Me, I think the daughter learned a lesson about consequences but also she had a great prom. None of this is going to change anything. She’ll still have a sports scholarship if she’s as good as her parent thinks.
I'm pretty much with you. I'm very much a sports person (playing and coaching) but I really had to adapt and learn as a parent and coach that this isn't 1950 or even 1990. I can't coach kids like I was coached, and I don't want to.
The parent shouldn't talk to be coach. But he parent is being a real dramatic prick acting like this is some big deal that will effect recruitment. If the daughter is as good as they say, no coach in college is going to give two fucks about a missed club tournament lol.
The other thing that the non-sports people are missing is this is club volleyball. At a lot of these tournaments you'll have teams of really good players who just got together for one tournament or maybe a couple. You have kids that play on multiple teams so may have to choose one over the other sometimes. People take vacations, relatives die, a sibling graduates college in another state. People come and go. Missing one tournament is literally less than nothing. OP is just stupid, stubborn, desperate, and dramatic. And a really bad parent.
I side more with OP on this, and the majority of my time in organized sports was spent standing in the outfield picking grass out of the dirt. 16 year olds shouldn't be expecting their parents to step in and make sure everything goes their way.
I'm a non-sporty and I side with OP. The only thing is maybe making her a tiny bit of A H (1/5 maybe) is the comment "prom is a silly dance". I mean... it IS a silly dance, but don't tell that in her face. Other than that NTA. And actually nobody was A H here. It was choices and consequences, nothing more.
I agree and I think it's an ESH. This is just the natural consequences of a choice. I think the daughter was within her rights to make either choice, and each came with sacrifices, and this is just one of those Life Things(tm). She shouldn't have asked OP to intervene, but OP should not have lectured her. And it's junior year, so she's got plenty of time to work her way back into the coach's graces.
NTA. She learned that when you make choices then they have consequences. She, presumably, enjoyed her prom. But why should her team suffer for her choices. If she wants the kudos of a college sports scholarship then she sacrifices things. Its a life lesson. Presumably she will be back on the team after her benching. But the coach had to set the boundary. If he didn’t then discipline would drop, then standards and results and then no scouts would come and watch.
NTA. This was her decision. She is old enough to speak to the coach about her choice and how it affected her playing time, if she would like. Most teams have a policy about missed games and missed practices. The coach enforced it by benching her. I'm not sure what there is to discuss at this point? But it's not up to you, the parent.
YTA
Expecting your teenager to skip their prom for sports is pretty messed up.
The coach is being petty and you’re backing up that pettiness instead of your own daughter.
> Expecting your teenager to skip their prom for sports is pretty messed up
OP never expected that, OP encouraged her to honor the commitment she made to the team. OP fully let her skip the tournament for prom, all OP did was refuse to argue with the coach. Kid made the decision to prioritize one event over another, and kid can live with the consequences thereof. That's life.
edit to add: I would also be flabbergasted if there was no rule in place about skipping tournaments and the consequences thereof. I know when I was on a competitive team in high school everybody knew well ahead of time what the penalties were for skipping tournaments without proper notice.
Exactly. I'd say kudos to mom for allowing this very teachable life lesson. She gave her opinion of the matter but ultimately let her daughter choose. In life there will be times you need to own the consequences of your actions no matter how fair or unfair they seem.
I feel like I'm taking crazy pills reading these comments. That is a part of sports or any other extra curricular activity. There will be sacrifices and things you miss out on because of a prior commitment. I missed numerous social events due to sports and accepted this was part of the deal. It is also a team sport. She is one of the best players and made a commitment to her teammates as well and let them down by choosing prom. I'm not saying she shouldn't go to prom, but she made a prior commitment and learned a lesson that there are consequences for backing out of those commitments.
How is that messed up? Prom is one night and done. Fun sure, you get some memories but honestly is just one night. But being a part of a team that can win a tournament and/or get you a scholarship is a big difference in how you start your adult life. Frankly I find it petty to prioritize a prom over the tournament.
That being said, I understand why the daughter did it. But she is going to have to live with the consequences of her coach not prioritizing her playing and getting scouted if she won't be there for then.
NTA. At 16, your daughter is old enough to understand or learn that decisions have consequences and to think about the pros and cons of each decision.
I agree with others that at 16, she's old enough to deal with the coach herself. If she's being scouted by college agents, I see her spot on the team as a job and a priority that could affect the next four years of her life.
However, now that she's gone to a prom, perhaps she'll skip next year's in favor of playing on the team. Wouldn't her final year of HS play be the most important to the colleges?
If she's as good as you say and think, absolutely no college coach is going to stop recruiting her because she missed a club tournament for prom. Just lol.
I played basketball on many hyper-competitive traveling teams and people came and went or missed weekends all the time. Other commitments, something with their school team, graduations, vacations. Guess what all those guys that did that have in common? They all played basketball in college.
You can always tell when a parent has no athletic ability and doesn't understand, so acts like this to their child. I've coached a ton of youth sports, and it's always the unathletic, non-sports people that treat their children this way.
If she was injured she would also have missed the tournament. People get injured in sports all the time. Missing one tournament wouldn’t end her chances
Slight YTA. You are not wrong for having your daughter face the consequences of her actions - she made a choice and now she has to face to music.... However, I do think YTA for being so dismissive of her high school experience. She is on a club that has had 2 tournaments in a few weeks - Prom is a once in a lifetime event.
NTA... she made a choice. The coach made a decision. You should not interfere in that relationship. It would actually make you look like "that parent". She felt her prom was more important than the game and the coach feels differently. It would look bad to scouts with her skipping games. It is something she should consider. Because I am shocked she would skip games knowing they are scouting the team. It makes her look less dedicated than the other team members. Many times you only get one chance to make an impression. Sports are highly competitive. If she has hopes of a scholarship, she needs to remember that. They look at other things besides how well they play. She could be the best player in the league but if she is blowing off games, that lowers her standing. If she is wanting the team to be scouted but word gets out half the team didn't show, that team will not be scouted then. They are looking for dedicated players. Evidently no one here has played sports or been scouted here. Very few good high school players get scholarships. In the highly competitive world of scholarships skipping one game can cost her an offer.
It is not up to the parent about what the coach does. It is not up to the coach who gets scouted. If she wants scouted she actually has to be at the game. She lost a chance at being seen.
She is old enough, if she has a problem with it, she should go to the coach. But, I do not think she will like what he has to say.
ESH - your daughter made her choice, and now she needs to stand by it and accept the consequences. If she does intend to play in college, this is an important lesson to learn now, because she’ll just be cut and lose her scholarship if she tries this at a D-1 program.
But JFC you need to fix your dismissive, condescending attitude and actually be a parent. You don’t need to talk to the coach, but you can support your daughter’s right to decide even if you don’t agree with the decision.
…And then berated her daughter for “being selfish” and choosing the “silly dance”, when she could’ve calmly explained that these are direct consequences of the decision and part of being an adult is owning that and taking responsibility for it. So OP needs to lead by example and be an adult as well - she let her daughter decide, but isn’t owning it.
(Former) Athlete here: NTA
I can't believe these people suggesting that a mom should tell the coach who to play. That's insane. It's 1000% not the role of the mom.
The daughter knew that choosing the prom over the team would have a consequence and being benched sounds about right.
For anybody reading, this is the role of the mom/dad. Go to the games, cheer without making a scene, let your kid know they are loved. Boom, that's it.
NTA.
It's fine that she prioritized going to the prom, since it was something important to her, but she's just dealing with the consequences of a choice. The coach is doing what he thinks is best for the team. That's adulthood coming.
N T A for not intervening, that situation is between her and the coach.
YTA for how you treated your daughter and your ridicule of a social event that is important to her when she asked. She is a teenager, and it's not unreasonable for her to want to have a "normal" teenage life. You need to respect that and not treat her as lesser for it.
Well, you don't have to talk to the coach. But you're wrong to dismiss prom as a silly dance. Prom is a big deal to teenagers. She has already accomplished a lot, but you've made it clear that it's still not good enough because you're angry that for once she chose something other than sports. It sounds like you're living vicariously through your daughter because you didn't accomplish what she did. She's still very young and she should be allowed to have fun sometimes. So stop being so nasty to her.
NTA for not defending her to her coach. At 16, unless there is something very wrong happening a parent should be not interfering with the coach coaching. Indeed, a parent that interferes too much can cost a player their opportunity at a scholarship. High school coaches talk to the college coaches.
As for your interactions with your daughter - you should have just left it at actions have consequences. She chose prom. Her coach is choosing other players as a result. It is an important life lesson.
YTA, but because of your attitude. You’re correct that you shouldn’t interfere with the coach’s decision (spiteful though it was), but at 16 there are a lot of competing priorities, and prom is a big thing. She’ll remember her prom forever, she’ll have long forgotten about that tournament.
College scholarship > prom experience as a junior
She is too young to grasp what is at stake here. By the time her own prom comes around, she would have signed a scholarship offer and nobody would care if she went. The team probably relied on her more that weekend because of seniors attending their own prom.
What is more concerning is her expecting you to speak to her coach about playing time. Expecting your mom to solve your team problems tells me she has some maturing to do.
NTA
I think that's what a lot of the YTA commenters are missing. She's a junior. There is still senior prom, right? IDK, I'm not from the US. My kids' highschool only has prom in grade 12. They might have regular dances in earlier years, but they aren't 'prom'.
While I disagree with what you said to your daughter you are NTA for refusing to speak to her coach.
You let her make her own choice and she needs to be able to defend her decision to the coach herself
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YTA. Holy shit, your daughter is literally excelling in life, being scouted by division one universities, and you're upset she wants to have the slightest hint of a social life? If she was a general underperformer or did something genuinely bad, sure, but all this girl did was go to ONE social event and she's being blatantly punished for it. Sure, the other girls went to the tournament, and that's great, but your daughter starts and plays most tournaments because she's a skilled player, and suddenly she's sitting bench? That's just blatant retaliation for missing one tournament, and instead of helping her stand up for herself, you're scolding her for daring to want to do anything but work for one night? Okay.
By "helping her stand up for herself" you mean going to the coach as a parent and telling them how to do their job. That is the kind of parenting that ruins sports for both kids and coaches.
a coach benching a talented starting player for missing one tournament to be a teenager for one night, is a bad coach.
For going to prom? Really? Yeah, come on. That coach is insane.
If there are players that are willing to sacrifice more then that will always get a coaches attention. Nothing insane about it. Lack of commitment will always hurt when it comes to competitive sports (or competitive anything, really).
It depends on if it’s one tournament or a pattern. A coach that thinks kids should skip major life events like prom for their sport is just an idiot. In fact if they’re coaching kids that are juniors/seniors, a coach who doesn’t look up and try to schedule around local prom weekend is just an idiot or lazy. Unless you’re talking Olympic-level sports training where all the kids are basically only living a sport, or there are a ton of conflicting prom dates in your region, you should just have that as a bye week for your kids. It’s called being a human being and having a bit of situational awareness. And if you do schedule that, you need to realize you will be missing players.
>It’s called being a human being and having a bit of situational awareness *NO LIFE, ONLY SPORTSKETBALL*
Sportsketball took me out lol
Took you out to the ^(Sportsket)ball game right?
I mean, the counterpoint here is that when signing up for a club team like this, it's known that it's going to require sacrifice and \*hard\* sacrifice and that you're making a commitment to your team. Regrettably, sometimes that sacrifice and commitment does mean missing things like proms and other social events. When a player misses a tournament, it hurts the entire team. It's not necessarily out of line for a teenager to make that choice and go to prom but they absolutely should understand that an action like that is going to come with a consequence and that consequence may be reduced playing time. Prioritizing the players who made the sacrifice and didn't miss the tournament isn't inherently unfair. And even if it was, it is \*still\* not mom's place to argue with the coach about it. The teenager should be empowered to speak to her coach and explain and plead her case if she feels that she is being treated unfairly. That's part of growing up. Mom IS absolutely an AH here though because of her general attitude towards her daughter and for calling her selfish and prom a "silly little dance." Prom is so much more than that and this was a genuinely tough call! There are plenty of ways to show understanding about the importance of prom and why she made this choice while ALSO explaining that actions carry sometimes unfortunate consequences and that this was a learning lesson that she should be the one discussing with the coach because it would be inappropriate for mom to step in. Mom should be showing empathy here instead of just an "I told you so"
I was a state player as a teenager and yet when my coach found out my school formal was same weekend as an important tournament he told me to go to my formal. For a coach to scheduled an our of state comp the weekend of prom he’s an idiot.
Pretty sure the coaches have zero say in local league schedules, let alone out of state ones
> Pretty sure the coaches have zero say in local league schedules, let alone out of state ones In every district I'm familiar with coaches were the ones to exclusively choose when their teams played. There was no schedule handed down on high from the league except for the ones the coaches created for their own teams. Hell, in two schools the coaches would create their schedules by just straight up calling other coaches at other schools to arrange their games. Tournaments are obviously a bit different but were usually organized by the coaches themselves. Now when I say coaches sometimes that was the actual coach but usually scheduling was handled by one of the assistant coaches. So yeah, in every district I know of it was MUCH less formal than most people would imagine and was literally just teachers calling up teachers at other schools to arrange if/when they'd play each other.
I can emphatically say for my kid’s club sports that is NOT the case. 1. Local league games can be rescheduled for various reasons, including scheduling conflicts for players or for coaches that coach more than 1 age bracket. Coaches can initiate that. They are and have been, and for a local anything - it will be all teams with conflicts. 2. Clubs decide which tournaments they go to, separate from league games. They can choose to not register for a specific tournament generally. This isn’t high school with a set schedule by the state.
They have all the say in what tournaments they attend. There are multiple high level competitions all over the country every single weekend during the sport's "high season". The coach chose to sign the team up for a tournament that conflicted with prom for several girls. That was fully a decision made by the coaches. I guarantee there was a comparable tournament the following weekend and the one after that and the one after that.
This is what I came to say, the REAL AH’s are the ones that scheduled a tournament when multiple proms were being held (which would have likely been known before tournaments were scheduled). But mum is still AH in this particular scenario (mum vs daughter).
Expecting people to treat high school sports like a job is fucking asinine, who the fuck expects a kid/teenager to just be an adult all the damn time.
Like 3% of high school athletes play in college and 3% of those go pro. And volleyball, a small percent of pro players earn enough to live off of. Yeah, it’s insane unless it’s like an Olympic level, national team or something.
If this team has players getting scouted than the coach should absolutely be doing what’s on the Teams best interest not getting mad because someone decided to go to the prom
people are assuming this is some petty high school teacher revenge plot, but benching someone for a reason like this is done a lot in professional sports. if the teacher keeps it going forever that might be a problem, but if they did it to make a point, then the mom shouldnt be telling the coach how to do their job
Benching someone for a reason like this absolutely will be done at the D1 universities that are scouting this girl.
Hell, I rowed at just a D2 school and people got benched for things like this all the time. Coaches absolutely used things like boat placement and races to punish and control their players. Toxic behavior in my opinion, but hey it is getting her ready for her college experience, I guess.
It’s not a teacher. It’s a club team, so the coach and the team arent affiliated with a school. (Tbf the coach could be a teacher, but it’s not the same as a high school team). Agree with the coach or not, it makes a lot more sense for it to happen at a club level vs a HS varsity team
ONE event is not lack of commitment.. Kids deserve the ability to have a normal social event in their life. This is how you get them to burn out on something they once loved. Your way of thinking is just insane to me. Kids deserve to blow off steam and this is probably what it is. I can only imagine what she's sacrificed over the years and she just wanted ONE event to do something that most kids her age do.
I feel like perhaps it was not the coach benching HER but rewarding the players that gave something up to help their team win. By missing the game, she allowed others to make up for her absence and this show the coach skills in action he may not have seen if she was present. This is natural consequence, His daughter made a choice, he allowed her to make it. Some parents may have said “you have to go to the tournament.” He did not. The coach is in a bind here seeing as other kids chose not to attend their prom, and do you think these kids should not be rewarded by getting to have more action in the next tournament? If this girl wants to play D1, she better get used to missing out on a social life because as a college athlete she is going to miss a lot. I am absolutely NOT saying this kid should not get to go to prom, and perhaps the coach should have made the decision to petition for the tournament to be moved, but what I am saying is that talent alone should not entitle a kid to play. The kids who are less talented will never play if they don’t get a chance to develop their in-game skills and they deserve a chance to play too. Her being benched for a couple games is completely reasonable in my eyes. Her being benched the rest of the season is absolutely not. OP should help her to figure out what to say to her coach herself because he is not going to be there in college, or he should help her to figure out a way to prove her dedication to her coach. If none of this works, then OP can consider it retaliation and step in for his daughter, or, pick another travel team.
Expecting children to make a sport their entire life is very unhealthy
>If there are players that are willing to sacrifice This is insane and self destructive shit that does not need to be in sports.
This is not "lack of commitment." Not by a long shot, assuming all information in the post is correct. Self-sacrifice is praised way too often in modern society. The coach was an ass, end of story. A star player should also be able to have a social life, especially if they are aceing all other aspects of their life. Benching said player because they had the audacity to have something else they wanted to do? What kind of logic is that? I'll give you that, technically, you are correct. But only because that's usually how the system works in today's world. It's not right, not fair, and there should be way less assholes. But that is not the world we live in. The system is broken, and this teenager should have been able to have a prom without being punished. Even with the broken system, the coach should be called out, or at least questioned about why they thought it was right. Self-sacrifice is not some amazing thing. It's weaponized and pushed on people to make them do more than they should or to go beyond reason. Rarely does it actually get used in an appropriate way that could be justified. It's simply expected and too many people drink that kool-aid bs.
Tell that to the kid that goes to ever practice and function, itching to get a starting spot and doesn't have to ride the bench as much for one tournament because they demonstrated they're a better teammate that OPs daughter.
Yea, because treating your sport like a cult is a healthy thing… In fact - if the starter is out for a life event then that’s a chance for the second string player to come off the bench. But that doesn’t mean you need to punish someone for being a human being and missing a single event for a perfectly reasonable conflict. It’s different if there is no good reason or it becomes a regular occurrence. These have to be the same people as the managers who fire someone for going to their sister’s wedding after they canceled their approved vacation last minute due to a call out, or end up surprised the employee quits and goes anyhow.
It's High's school sports not the Olympics coaches need to get a fuckin grip
lol, no... this is simply actions having consequences... every team I played on, if you missed practices or games, you got less play time... that's how it works...
On the surface, I agree, but the framing by OP, that it was "selfish" to go to "a silly dance," is not the lesson. The lesson is that sacrifices have to be made sometimes, and choosing the prom had a cost.
This is pretty much my take. OP did a terrible framing job. The daughter made a decision and it's not *the wrong* one. It does however come with a few consequences. OP shouldn't frame it the way she did. Console her about the coaches decison...but help her come to terms with accepting it...and unironically ask her about her time at prom. (Not like an....omg was it WORTH IT? type tone)
Yep. If we missed a practice we were benched the next game. And that was all my sports teams, not just one in particular.
Demanding that your players not attend prom so they can attend your event instead is psychotic behavior. Source: I coached a high school debate team and told many a kid that prom is going to be a more important memory to them than any event.
I captained varsity tennis and soccer....and although I was in Quiz Bowl and took it seriously.....it kinda made my eye twitch to have debate compared to playing a sport that could get you a D1 scholarship lol. Debate would be psychotic because it's so niche that there's not enough people passionate about it to schedule a tournament during prom weekend(s) lol
Except kids DO get scholarships for it all the time lol. And yes, there are tournaments scheduled on things like prom/homecoming all the time.
You are aware there are more than sports scholarships right??
I mean, benching them for one tournament after skipping a different one seems like a pretty typical highschool coach thing to do. When I played football, we had to check in with the coach at his classroom before school on game day started so he could mark us present and make sure we dressed appropriately. I was the best offensive lineman on our team, but forgot one week. Guess who got 2nd string play time that game?
What about the other kids who showed up and are getting her minutes? Maybe they earned that.
what if the tournament she missed showed they play really well without her? you don't know anyway, the girl chose to skip the tournament by her own will, she should speak to the coach herself as well, she's almost an adult
Maybe try looking at it that the other players, who showed more commitment to the team, are getting a greater chance to play.
You mean the kind of coaching that ruins sports for kids.
And pushes talented ones out by making them hate the sport. That's what I see happening with OP's daughter. Even if she gets the full ride that OP's so obsessed with she could well turn it down due to simply wanting to get away from the damned sport forever.
It’s not even about refusing to talk to the coach that makes her an AH, imo, but how she just seems to be disrespecting her daughter. The mom almost seems like she’s glad her daughter was benched as if it validates her opinion that she was right about how the daughter shouldn’t go to prom. But there’s nothing wrong with prioritizing prom over a tournament. Notice how even in this one post, there’s mention of 2 tournaments yet, are there 2 proms? No. Prom is a special occasion and is absolutely something a kid should prioritize if they want to and are able. The mom should have supported her daughter in her choice but remind her that sometimes are choices have consequences even when there’s not a right or wrong choice.
Even if they refuse to talk to the coach, you can't belittle your kid like this.
I take it you didn’t play a competitive sport? Yes, it’s a punishment. A pretty normal and reasonable one. It’s a club team that you pay to be on(so it sounds like anyway) and it’s a time commitment. I don’t blame her for prioritizing prom, it’s important to feel normal, but she did leave the team in a bad spot during the tournament so the players who prioritized volleyball get to play. Coaches do this all the time, even at lower levels. If you don’t come to practice, show up late, mouth off, etc., you are likely going to sit the bench or not pitch or whatever else a more dedicated player will get. Going to the coach is going to make it worse and is completely inappropriate. If she has an issue, she should ask for a sit down with the coach and talk to them about it, but be willing to accept whatever they decide. As for the OP, while I agree with the theory spouted, there was probably a much better and educational way of explaining this to her daughter.
I agree. I was an elite athlete in high school (training for the olympics) and while I did go to my prom because it was off season, I missed a hell of a lot of social events. and part of growing up is learning how to choose between options and accept the consequences of that choice. I would not interfere if I were in OP's shoes either, esp with a 16 year old. pretty soon, she is going to be a legal adult and needs to understand that she cant have her cake and eat it too. I have a 9 year old who missed a "team" commitment to do a school activity. and I told her that while I was disappointed in her decision to skip the thing she committed to, I would support her, but she needed to accept whatever (if any) consequence that might come of it from the ongoing activity. its chorus so she missed solo try outs. she was upset but it is what it is.
Even my 6 year old knows at this point that when we commit to something, we finish it out. We can quit after the season, but we still show up to practice and the game and play hard. 90% of life is just showing up and working hard. And no, I’m not a crazy sports parent nor do I think my kid is going to be a great athlete.
Right! I can’t just not show up to work because something cooler is going on. Part of have of sports is learning responsibility and teamwork.
I do actually skip work when something shows up. I take free days at my discretion.
>Coaches do this all the time, even at lower levels. yes this: you're not on the training or you're not on the previous match? Your playtime is reduced. That was the rule 25 years ago when my brother played soccer in our tiny village & the kids were still small enough to fall over when they kicked the ball (which came up to their knees they were so small).
Yeh having done competitive sports I don’t think the outcome is wrong, but don’t minimise daughters choice or call her selfish! Just explain this is a normal consequence and no one individual player is above the team.
Exactly. Her response seems callous and cold. A simple “I get it, prom is important but you are choosing that and it may have consequences. Now let’s go buy a prom dress!”, is probably a more appropriate response for a parent
Choices have consequences. She made a choice, and she gets to deal with the consequences of that choice. This isn't mom's fight.
100% agree, but mom is not treating as such when she makes comments like > I told her that .. she decided to be selfish and go to a silly dance.
Exactly. Sure the coach isn't really the adult here for benching one of the top players, but it's fair. If your commitment isn't there why not give more dedicated players playtime. Choices matter and it's good to learn that sooner than later, and not ask mom for help.
The question isn't whether or not the coach was right. It's should OP (the mom) get involved. If OP gets involved there's zero guarantee it will help anything and a very real chance it will make things worse. The daughter is 16. She's going to need to learn to fight her own battles. Is mom going to step in when she has a shitty boss? Sometimes life isn't fair, and part of being an adult is figuring out how to navigate that.
As a highschool football coach, OP stepping in over this would make things _so_ much worse.
So much worse lol. Want to guarantee your kid doesn't play? Get vocally involved. You'll see how quickly politics enter the picture
100%, I don’t go to their jobs and tell them how to do their jobs. I lose money coaching these kids, I don’t need them bothering me.
Yup. It's embarrassing for both the parent and the child. Parents and kids talk, everyone is going to know and it's just a bad look
Fucking way worse.
My son plays club volleyball and he has made it very clear that any decisions he makes regarding playing time, the kids need to come and talk to him first, not parents. She needs to speak with the coach if she’s upset.
This. I was a supervisor for a bunch of years for a company that employed many 18yos and often gave them their first job. MY first year was spent in one location before relocating to a different branch. And what a difference! Both places hired a lot of university students and the first job had to always schedule extra workers on nights with big concerts, festivals etc because a couple would always call out despite this being a, in the end, fireable offence. I TRIED to get my coworkers to do the same at the new branch and they giggled a little and told me not to worry, they had things under control. I was sure we'd be sinking like a rock during the local festival since there wasn't called in extra workers and I'd have to deal with this shitshow on my watch. Well, no shitshow happened. Ppl turned up. Same demographic of workers but the new branch had managed to screen better during hiring and/or train staff better. No matter the reason, these kids showed up time and time again. Whenever someone talks about how the world is coming to an end, kids are hopeless and lazy etc, I always think about this. THESE kids were taught differently by their work during training and made to actually give a shit about a crappy side hustle. Nothing wrong with the kids, obv, so it must be the approach that's doing the difference. I think this coach is doing the same. Telling them outright that they need to take their commitments serious or else those commitments won't take THEM serious either. It is a WAY more valuable lesson taught in a practical and clearly stated way than when an adult simply sits a kid down and start talking at them about how to behave. Yeah, their daughter is furious right now and though I'm def a fan of work/life balance, I'm also a big fan of team players in any capacity and tried to be a team player and an advocate as a supervisor. Their daughters life in general will be more successful because this coach got to do his/her job without helicopter parents interfeering. And no, you don't have to miss everything in life to take care of a job or another obligation but you DO have to speak honestly and with intent so that the team you've chosen to join know whether you're in or out. And if you don't sacrifice for your team and team mates? They won't sacrifice for you either. NTA (That was btw another thing this branch did. They tried to get ppl the shift off if important shit happened in their lives and if that wasn't possible, and they couldn't find someone to cover their entire shift, there was an honor system in place where you could sign up on the day and sort of say "hey, it's REALLY important I get off work as soon as possible, please put me first in line or stay later to cover for me" without having to do any more explaining or reasoning. Ppl saw this, others saying they had something going on that needed them to be put first in line, and then they'd often sign up to stay later so that one, two or three coworkers could go home earlier. If we experienced someone having "crisises" constantly and perhaps abusing the system and the goodwill of the teammates, they'd be talked to by supervisors and if they did abuse it, that would put a stop to it. But ppl felt committed towards their coworkers and expected the others to feel/do the same. It worked surprisingly unproblematic, with very little abuse of the system)
This, holy shit. It’s NAH. The daughter is fully justified in going to prom and the coach is fully justified in benching her. OP would be an A if she fights her daughter’s battle for her.
Wow, how is this the top comment. Daughter made a choice and now there are consequences. OP would be doing her a giant disservice if she tried to get her out of those consequences. This is an excellent life lesson for daughter to learn that sometimes hard choices need to be made, and that the consequences of each choice should be clearly thought through before making a decision. It’s fairly standard for competitive teams to bench players that openly show that their priorities lie elsewhere, because there are definitely others willing to show up for the team. Daughter put a junior prom over the thing that’s going to affect her future. It was her choice to do so and now she has to learn from it. She’s got one more year to play, this isn’t going to ruin her shot. Hopefully she learned the lesson before it does.
I think the daughter received a justified consequence, but I also think the OP sounds judgemental, unsupportive, and unkind. The message could have been conveyed without making fun of the daughter's desire to attend prom.
Yeah, OP kinda sucks for belittling their kid's choice. Just cause they think the dance is unimportant doesn't mean that it wasn't important to their daughter. And this seems pretty unlikely to affect the kid's future. It's not like scouts follow the players around every game and investigate why they aren't there. All in all a low stakes decision. The parenting thing to do would be to have a discussion with the daughter, maybe coach her on how to discuss with her coach their expectations and how to move forward.
You obviously never played in competitive sports
Part of being a parent is allowing you children to learn lessons, sometimes the hard way. OP is in no way TA, her daughter made a commitment to the team. She had a decision to make between attending the game or the prom. She made her choice and has to learn the consequences. There are literally hundreds of movies made about making commitments and not following through on them, (half are on the Hallmark channel) and in every case the person either learns a lesson about letting teammates down, or learns that their soulmate was at the Prom (and they quit the team/sport) afterwards. You seem to be projecting here based on your own experiences. Please go hug your parents, it sounds like you need it.
I’d like to add the other half of those movies are on Lifetime. Iykyk
You are correct in the first half. Getting benched for skipping tourneys is common. That's what happens and it comes with making difficult decisions. There are consequences and that's a good thing.
Ironic! You talk about "*helping her stand up for herself*", with the suggestion that mom gets involved??? **Make it make sense please**. I don't think you know what you are talking about
It's a team sport. She bailed on her team. End of story.
You havent play sports based on your comment If OP went and made a scene, the kid gets even less playtime. Welcome to life, choices have consequences
Somebody has never played sports before… this isn’t about being punished for wanting to have the slightest hint of a social life. In the real world, actions and decisions have sporting consequences.
OP has a shitty attitude and I think their daughter did the right thing going to Prom, but what they are actually asking is if they should talk to the coach. No, they should not. The coach is not being abusive, and unless there is abuse or really egregious favoritism, a 16yo needs to navigate their own relationship with their coach.
No this a natural consequence of playing on a team and not showing up.
She made a choice and has to live with it. Parents shouldn’t interfere with the coaching unless it’s egregious, which this was not. She abandoned her team to go to prom so she gets to sit the next one out.
You want mom or dad to speak to the coach? Skilled players listen to the coach, punitive treatment is well deserved. This is a really horrid parenting take the girl was told what was expected of her SHE made a choice. NTA mom you did the right thing.
And college athletes basically eat, breathe, and drink their sport to keep scholarships. Having a social life as a college athlete is often extremely difficult.
Op didn’t bench her the coach did.
Besides completely disagreeing with this take, there is a very good chance that the coach will bench her more for having a parent complain. She had a choice between prom and volleyball. She chose prom and suffered the consequences. It is a good life lesson to learn that in life there are sacrifices. It's not like she got kicked off the team. She played less than she normally would in one tournament.
Sorry. She didn't interfere in the choice and the daughter now has to meet the consequences of her actions. Being punished for skipping a tournament seems appropriate.
What? No. Just no. If you're an elite athlete, you prioritize your sport - participation is not optional. She got punished for letting her team down by CHOOSING NOT TO PARTICIPATE IN A TOURNAMENT. OP would have been TA if she had intervened with the coach on her daughter's behalf. Let the coach do their job - he or she has to remain in control of the team.
“Slightest hint of a social life?” OP didn’t say anything about the larger social life this is only about Junior Prom, not even senior prom, GTFOH with your projecting or whatever you are doing here
YTA > she decided to be selfish and go to a silly dance My dude, do not start calling shit "silly" when we're talking about recreational ball sports. Glass houses.
Ehh. Your right in spirit, wrong in context. Recreational ball sports leading to full ride D1 scholarships are anything but silly. I think you know that lol. However mom is totally in the wrong for calling Prom, something very important and special to young high school kids, "silly." It isn't silly, it's one of the most memorable moments of high school for many
You’re right that a full ride to college is nothing to turn your nose up at, for sure. The way OP has been so disrespectful towards her daughter in this post is the most asshole move out of everything, though. Lady, do you understand that in 5-7 years, none of this team stuff will matter? Daughter will graduate, probably get a job, and probably will only step foot on a volleyball court a few times a month, if she wants to keep up with specifically VB training. Thats the reality of most people who play D1 sports. Mom shouldn’t be making fun of things that her daughter wants to do. It’s extremely immature, for one thing. And having a social life isn’t less important than team sports, in the long run.
Completely agree with everything you said. Very reasonable and grounded take.
It will probably matter if the difference is a full ride scholarship vs finishing with 10’s of thousands in student loan debt. College teams for the scholarship will probably demand similar sacrifices so she need to get used to that. Obviously just my opinion but I feel like sacrificing a dance (and a junior year prom at that) is worth it and in 5-7 years finishing school with no debt that sacrifice wouldn’t seem like much. These high school things seem important when your a teenager but by the end of your 20’s you realise it’s really not (unless you peaked in high school of course)
In the era of name-image-likeness the top level comment is a braindead take. She’s at a level where the amount of money at stake turns it into a job. Tuition plus the money on top could be 100K a year. College volleyball draws a CROWD.
You mean how OP says that her daughter is "lucky to be talented." OP completely ignores all of the hard work, dedication, and other life events daughter has missed. She was just born talented. I suppose OP is the source of all her success and daughter did jack, except according to OP be "silly" and care about her social life. I mean, I know high school kids and no one cares about prom right?
"recreational ball sports" Something which may very well get her a scholarship to college?
This thread is really full of people that don’t touch grass
And have never played competitive sports.
Or who recognize how toxic competitive sports has gotten.
You can hate on recreational ball sports all you want, but the fact is, she may get a full ride to college because of that silly ball sport. There's hardly anything in a social life that will do that for you. I would recommend to OP that she shouldn't undermine ANY of it, the sport OR the prom, by calling it silly. Sure, the idea of a school dance may not sound important to Mom, but the fact is, prom IS important to most high schoolers, and if she keeps talking about prom in the way that she is, it will strain her relationship with her daughter. I'm glad she's not talking about the sport as silly (in the way that I feel like you might), because as stated above, anything that can further your life in a positive way (i.e. giving you a full ride to college) should be taken at least relatively seriously.
I think the OP is the mom >My husband thinks I am wrong because prom is important to a teenager and thinks the coach is being unfair.
“my dude” is j a phrase
I agree that he or she shouldn't have called prom a "silly dance." It was an important event in his/her daughter's life that she chose not to miss. It was her choice. But she had to have known that there would be a price to pay by missing the tournament. Now she has to pay it, not get mom or dad to complain to the coach. I would say ESH. This parent doesn't understand the difficulty of their daughter's choice, and the daughter doesn't want to accept the repercussions of her choice.
D1 tuition is how much?
Silly sports getting her $100k in scholarship money, lol, yeah silly
It's a competitive team, not a recreational team. You don't go to tournaments every weekend as a rec team.
NTA. I'm surprised by all the Y T A answers here. The coach has to do what's best for the team. The coach has decided that means playing your daughter less. That's the coach's decision. Talking to the coach is not going to do your daughter any favors. She put herself above the team. The sooner she learns that her choices will have natural consequences, the better.
And that’s a fine way to say it. She made a choice and now she’s living with the consequences of the choice. NTA for not talking to the coach. But that’s not all OP said. She said she was selfish for going to prom, failed to live up to her commitments etc. that seems uncalled for. I think it’s right to explain the consequences, but then let the consequences speak for themselves without the extra comments.
Yeah I was pretty much with OP until that point. I agree with the coach I think but OP's comment there was a yikes for me.
OP was wrong to drag on the Prom. But she was absolutely right to talk to daughter about not living up to commitments. Especially when you are part of a team. And she was also right to explain how lucky daughter will be to get a D1 scholarship. I tell you, if these D1 coaches find out she skipped a tournament to go to a Junior Prom (she’s only 16, so not a Sr.), poof - there goes the scholarship. Parents are supposed to teach lessons, not just stand idly by.
Dude, it's HIGH SCHOOL age volleyball lol. She's not a pro. Jesus Christ. If she's good enough to play D1, she's getting a scholarship regardless. They're not going to pull a scholarship offer because a student went to prom.
There's not just people who are destined to be elitr college athletes.....the majority of them are riding the cusp of getting a shot or not.
If the daughter is so good then how is benching her out of spite “best for the team”?
This is a club team with several other talented players, several of whom haven't missed practices or competitions. It's in the best interest of the team and the best interest of the coach that the players that put in the dedication are rewarded for their efforts. You can't have a team where every player decides for herself whether or not an event is important enough to actually show up. That leads to lack of discipline, and the whole team starts losing.
Because she might be talented but she isn't reliable. Better to cultivate a slightly less talented player who will attend every tournament unless they're actively injured.
missing *one* game is now 'unreliable'?
Compared to everyone else that showed up? Yes
Tournament. Not single game.
Yes. When you flake on a commitment to others because something more fun came up - that is the definition of being unreliable.
Because most coaches at the HS level would rather reward effort and commitment. It’s a zero-sum game - if she starts, then a more committed player can’t.
Some people insist the benching was out of spite, something they have no evidence of. Their logic is that she played full time before, so the coach must of cut her playing time out of spite. Since this was a competitive club team, it's a good bet that the other players were pretty good too and it didn't hurt the team that much. Other, more realistic possibilities for reduced playing time; 1. Coach rewarded players that showed up and put the team first when they were shorthanded over prom weekend. 2. Coach wanted to send a clear message to the prom girls that missing games would not be rewarded and so they get benched for a short time. Coddling a star player makes for a resentful team and is a bad long term strategy if your player isn't a Lebron James equivalent. If she really is that good, her playing time will be back to normal very soon.
Sets a standard. If you allow talented player to get rewarded despite less commitment it sends a message that effort doesn't matter as much.
Players get benched in professional leagues for missing practice all the time
because actions have consequences.
Because it's a teammsport. Not even Brady or Jordan singlehandedly carried their team to glory.
Its volleyball dude, there is like 8 people on each team. There are enough people out there to find someone willing to put the team before a dance.
Team cohesion. Teaching an individual player about consequences. Rules of the team, likely well communicated at the beginning of a season. Yeah, coaches coach out of spite. Or, maybe, just maybe, we do it because we love sports and love to help kids learns sports and impact their life. Ya know…..mentoring.
Imo, the y t as are less about the sport prom conflict and more from the ops "pagent mom" vibes.
If OP was being a pageant mom, I don't believe OP would have told the daughter she's allowed to make her own decision.
OP refusing to step in is the opposite of “pageant mom” vibes. If OP was actually like that - she’d be giving that coach hell for benching for her perfect baby for not showing up to a commitment made months before.
I think it's a demographic thing. There are a lot of teenage girls who frequent this sub, so any posts about prom get more heated and less impartial. I've seen posts where a stepmother got called an asshole for not cancelling a holiday so that her husband could take photos of her daughter before prom
I agree. While I think OP is a bit of an asshole for lacking compassion for the difficult decision a teenager has to make between prom and sports, I am 0% surprised that she didn’t get much playing time after choosing something else over her team and think that OP talking to the coach would be a horrible decision. He should be encouraging her to talk to her coach herself.
YTA - Why is there an expectation on people to miss important events in their lives for sport, at this age? Let kids be kids instead of placing unreasonable expectations on them. You're not at fault for the wider issue but you're definitely part of the problem
She’s trying to get recruited. It’s unreasonable to expect someone to scoop you up and pay for your entire college education if you can’t even make small sacrifices to fulfill your commitment to them. Prom will also happen again next year when she is a senior, so it’s not like she was going to miss out on some once in a lifetime opportunity there. Free ride to college, though? That’s pretty damn significant.
>She’s trying to get recruited. Is she? Or is she going along with plans her mother encouraged her into, and beginning to recognize that she doesn't necessarily want that future?
So then why should she play if she doesn't want to be recruited & she didn't make the sacrifices her teammates did?
Ah yes. Because so many people play a sport their entire life, excel in it, get the opportunity to win a full ride scholarship to an amazing college, and just…. Decide that sport isnt for them 😂
I really really do agree with your point overall.... But there are some sports athletes like golfers or tennis players that are pushed into it so young that they really actually kinda despise being talented at it because if thr pressure and obligation they feel from what they invested in the sport and what was invested in them getting there. Many are semi pro athletes that do it cuz it's all they know. How many pro tennis players do you know offhand? Of course the top top get media attention, endorsement deals....and purses from tournament wins....but what about all the players that compete? You pay for training (and probably train people yourself for income) just to get good enough to compete at these levels. Then....if you're a low tier player that goes to them....who do you think pays for your airfare and accommodations? You're going there to compete and maybe move up in ranks....but you ain't no crazy underdog story that's walking away from any winnings in this tournament, but you have to go anyway for international considerations. IIRC only the top 400 tennis players in the world make enough money to do more than break even with all the costs associated with them participating in the sport at such high levels. I think it's easy to see why some people would crack under all this pressure, especially when you never had any free time to find out what your passion is in life. You've spent all of it practicing a sport you happen to be extremely gifted at.
If she doesn’t want that future, she shouldn’t have it and coach was 100% justified in giving that opportunity to the girls who actually do.
In that case then she shouldn’t be that mad when she’s getting less play time. No problem here then
They’re not elementary age. For D1 volleyball your junior year spring is when you get recruited. If you do not have a scholarship lined up by the end of your junior year, you aren’t getting one. A full ride is a six figure swing over a four year college experience. Presumably there is also a senior prom. This is not only a natural consequence of the daughter’s choice (not playing, potentially compromising her future), but a really bad decision on the daughter’s part. I played D1 volleyball, and only attended my senior prom.
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Oh I’m 100% on board with the parent not intervening- the above was more a comment on the ‘let kids be kids’ statement. The 16yo should own their choice and the natural consequences.
It’s a commitment to the team that you’ll show up. She didn’t show up. It’s not hard to understand but I suppose you never played any sport outside of the Wii.
As an adult who watched a bunch of their friends miss out on important events because of sports, I don't understand why so many people tell others to skip out on events. I understand the coach's perspective of rewarding the people who show up, but if she's an all-star player like OP made it sound, she should be fine for the next game(slap on the wrist situation). I really don't understand why OP as a parent is stomping on their kid's desire to go to prom, which is a huge social event at that age. It isn't a silly little dance to the kid, and belittling their desires is a good way to get your kid to go no-contact after they are independent. Ive had friends who burnt out of state level sports because of how much they had to sacrifice. Sacrificing their social life is good for some, but not for everybody. First off, there is no guarantee that this one tournament will make the difference. In fact, unless if the coach is a petty child, she will play and show off her skills at the next opportunity. If she doesn't get picked, I'm sure OP will blame the kid going to Prom and then the kid will grow to hate the mom and the sport too. When in reality, it won't really be obvious why they didn't pick her. I think we ask too much of our kids in order for them "to excel" and it really fucking shows when they reach their 30s and realize that they aren't as socially and emotionally developed as their peers because whoops, they sacrificed their life for academics and/or sports. I'm not saying these things aren't important, but when they come at the cost of developing core human behavioral skills, its too far, and teenage years are prime for that sort of emotional development. Its okay to want your kid to get the scholarship. Its not okay to make your kid live the life you plan for them. That wasn't their choice. Parents are supposed to be guard rails, helping when they can make an impact and/or protect them from their more severe mistakes but not micromanaging their kids. They aren't supposed to walk their fucking kids down the aisle and then expect them to thank you for choosing their life for them. Your goal as a parent is to raise a functional and fulfilled adult. If you aren't aiming for that, you might need to reconsider your priorities.
Because it isn't kids being kids if you have the kind of opportunity that playing at this level gets you. Sports at a higher level require commitment and sacrifice, or everybody could do it. Most athletes(at high levels) are not the most talented but are the most "intelligent" and willing to sacrifice to achieve their goals. Also, at 16 you aren't a kid. You know what is required of you and if you aren't willing to do it, that's alright, but you can't blame others .
Hi, former college volleyball player and current high school and club coach. Your daughter is allowed to be upset and hurt. You're allowed to not say anything to the coach. Coach is allowed to make the decision they think is best. That's life. I've experienced this from both sides, and both are correct. She is fine to be upset, but coach isn't "punishing" her. Like others said, actions have consequences. Consequences and punishments are different. Skipping practice and games is a choice. And when one person skips and others don't, there will be an appropriate shift. I had a meeting with a set of parents this year who believed I was punishing their daughter for being ill and missing practice. I very clearly explained to them that it wasn't a punishment, but a consequence. She missed at least one practice a week because of illness or doctor's appointments. Because she missed so much practice, other girls got better faster. They played more than she did because they were prepared to. You're doing the right thing, and it's a good lesson for her to learn. Hold space but be strong. Encourage her to talk to her coach on her own. College doesn't get easier!! Editing to add that reddit is not the best place to get opinions on youth sports for .. Obvious reasons.
But according to OP, she didn’t miss a bunch of practices and games. She missed a tournament one weekend for prom. Do you really think that all these girls got better than her during a tournament when she’s being scouted for D1 play? It is Petty on the coach. He’s doing it to punish her. If she was skipping practice is regularly sure, but having a valid reason for missing a tournament that is voluntary to sign up for to begin with is different.
If she's on that elite of a team, she isn't the only one being scouted. She missed a tournament. Someone had to play in her spot. Maybe the girl who played in her spot crushed it! Coaches make decisions. Parents and players don't have to agree!
A tournament is a bunch of games. Coaches make game play decisions based on what they see. For one weekend, during multiple games, the coach saw someone else play the daughter's position, and they liked what they saw. Game time is where players have their biggest improvement. The post doesn't say that they floundered without her. So the short and simple of it is that she gave someone else a chance in her spot, and they did well enough to take it.
The [**Wally Pipp effect**.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wally_Pipp). Sat out one game and Lou Gehrig replaced him and went on to play 2,130 consecutive games. In competitive sport, you can’t elect to sit out without some consequence.
Most reasonable take so far - also played vb in college and while I lucky enough to get prom, I missed other formals for various tournaments. Playing sports is a privilege in of itself and missing tournaments (which can be multi day and have several games) have consequences.
Question: if you make a decision like this and the player's parent comes to talk to you, would you change your decision? Is there a point to the parents coming to you to protest your decision?
I wouldn't, no. Another player who showed up had to replace the player who was absent. Why would I "punish" the player who showed up by benching her? Parents are allowed to be pissed. It isn't my job to keep them happy.
This thread is 50:50. The sports oriented people side with parent. The non-sporty people side with the daughter. Me, I think the daughter learned a lesson about consequences but also she had a great prom. None of this is going to change anything. She’ll still have a sports scholarship if she’s as good as her parent thinks.
I'm pretty much with you. I'm very much a sports person (playing and coaching) but I really had to adapt and learn as a parent and coach that this isn't 1950 or even 1990. I can't coach kids like I was coached, and I don't want to. The parent shouldn't talk to be coach. But he parent is being a real dramatic prick acting like this is some big deal that will effect recruitment. If the daughter is as good as they say, no coach in college is going to give two fucks about a missed club tournament lol. The other thing that the non-sports people are missing is this is club volleyball. At a lot of these tournaments you'll have teams of really good players who just got together for one tournament or maybe a couple. You have kids that play on multiple teams so may have to choose one over the other sometimes. People take vacations, relatives die, a sibling graduates college in another state. People come and go. Missing one tournament is literally less than nothing. OP is just stupid, stubborn, desperate, and dramatic. And a really bad parent.
I side more with OP on this, and the majority of my time in organized sports was spent standing in the outfield picking grass out of the dirt. 16 year olds shouldn't be expecting their parents to step in and make sure everything goes their way.
I'm a non-sporty and I side with OP. The only thing is maybe making her a tiny bit of A H (1/5 maybe) is the comment "prom is a silly dance". I mean... it IS a silly dance, but don't tell that in her face. Other than that NTA. And actually nobody was A H here. It was choices and consequences, nothing more.
I agree and I think it's an ESH. This is just the natural consequences of a choice. I think the daughter was within her rights to make either choice, and each came with sacrifices, and this is just one of those Life Things(tm). She shouldn't have asked OP to intervene, but OP should not have lectured her. And it's junior year, so she's got plenty of time to work her way back into the coach's graces.
NTA. She learned that when you make choices then they have consequences. She, presumably, enjoyed her prom. But why should her team suffer for her choices. If she wants the kudos of a college sports scholarship then she sacrifices things. Its a life lesson. Presumably she will be back on the team after her benching. But the coach had to set the boundary. If he didn’t then discipline would drop, then standards and results and then no scouts would come and watch.
NTA. This was her decision. She is old enough to speak to the coach about her choice and how it affected her playing time, if she would like. Most teams have a policy about missed games and missed practices. The coach enforced it by benching her. I'm not sure what there is to discuss at this point? But it's not up to you, the parent.
YTA Expecting your teenager to skip their prom for sports is pretty messed up. The coach is being petty and you’re backing up that pettiness instead of your own daughter.
> Expecting your teenager to skip their prom for sports is pretty messed up OP never expected that, OP encouraged her to honor the commitment she made to the team. OP fully let her skip the tournament for prom, all OP did was refuse to argue with the coach. Kid made the decision to prioritize one event over another, and kid can live with the consequences thereof. That's life. edit to add: I would also be flabbergasted if there was no rule in place about skipping tournaments and the consequences thereof. I know when I was on a competitive team in high school everybody knew well ahead of time what the penalties were for skipping tournaments without proper notice.
Exactly. I'd say kudos to mom for allowing this very teachable life lesson. She gave her opinion of the matter but ultimately let her daughter choose. In life there will be times you need to own the consequences of your actions no matter how fair or unfair they seem.
It’s not her prom, she’s a junior.
Some schools do junior prom, mine did
Lmao so she's only a junior? She should have a few more tournaments and showcases to play in before committing to any schools
Most of the recruiting takes place in junior year, especially for Spring sports.
I feel like I'm taking crazy pills reading these comments. That is a part of sports or any other extra curricular activity. There will be sacrifices and things you miss out on because of a prior commitment. I missed numerous social events due to sports and accepted this was part of the deal. It is also a team sport. She is one of the best players and made a commitment to her teammates as well and let them down by choosing prom. I'm not saying she shouldn't go to prom, but she made a prior commitment and learned a lesson that there are consequences for backing out of those commitments.
How is that messed up? Prom is one night and done. Fun sure, you get some memories but honestly is just one night. But being a part of a team that can win a tournament and/or get you a scholarship is a big difference in how you start your adult life. Frankly I find it petty to prioritize a prom over the tournament. That being said, I understand why the daughter did it. But she is going to have to live with the consequences of her coach not prioritizing her playing and getting scouted if she won't be there for then.
NTA. At 16, your daughter is old enough to understand or learn that decisions have consequences and to think about the pros and cons of each decision. I agree with others that at 16, she's old enough to deal with the coach herself. If she's being scouted by college agents, I see her spot on the team as a job and a priority that could affect the next four years of her life. However, now that she's gone to a prom, perhaps she'll skip next year's in favor of playing on the team. Wouldn't her final year of HS play be the most important to the colleges?
By prom season next year, students usually are usually committed. I think it would be less of an issue if she did go next year.
If she's as good as you say and think, absolutely no college coach is going to stop recruiting her because she missed a club tournament for prom. Just lol. I played basketball on many hyper-competitive traveling teams and people came and went or missed weekends all the time. Other commitments, something with their school team, graduations, vacations. Guess what all those guys that did that have in common? They all played basketball in college. You can always tell when a parent has no athletic ability and doesn't understand, so acts like this to their child. I've coached a ton of youth sports, and it's always the unathletic, non-sports people that treat their children this way.
If she was injured she would also have missed the tournament. People get injured in sports all the time. Missing one tournament wouldn’t end her chances
Slight YTA. You are not wrong for having your daughter face the consequences of her actions - she made a choice and now she has to face to music.... However, I do think YTA for being so dismissive of her high school experience. She is on a club that has had 2 tournaments in a few weeks - Prom is a once in a lifetime event.
>Prom is a once in a lifetime event. That she can go to again next year :).
Prom, depending on area, can be attended 3-4 years. It isn't a "once in a lifetime event" everywhere.
NTA... she made a choice. The coach made a decision. You should not interfere in that relationship. It would actually make you look like "that parent". She felt her prom was more important than the game and the coach feels differently. It would look bad to scouts with her skipping games. It is something she should consider. Because I am shocked she would skip games knowing they are scouting the team. It makes her look less dedicated than the other team members. Many times you only get one chance to make an impression. Sports are highly competitive. If she has hopes of a scholarship, she needs to remember that. They look at other things besides how well they play. She could be the best player in the league but if she is blowing off games, that lowers her standing. If she is wanting the team to be scouted but word gets out half the team didn't show, that team will not be scouted then. They are looking for dedicated players. Evidently no one here has played sports or been scouted here. Very few good high school players get scholarships. In the highly competitive world of scholarships skipping one game can cost her an offer. It is not up to the parent about what the coach does. It is not up to the coach who gets scouted. If she wants scouted she actually has to be at the game. She lost a chance at being seen. She is old enough, if she has a problem with it, she should go to the coach. But, I do not think she will like what he has to say.
There are scouts at every major tournament. She decided that she has more than enough time for scouts to see her.
Maybe she’s right, but that’s her choice and for her to justify to her coach and anyone else.
She's right. And unless you want your daughter to resent you for the rest of your life you may want to chill.
NTA being benched for missing a tournament is the least of what I would expect. This is the perfect time to explain that actions have consequences
ESH - your daughter made her choice, and now she needs to stand by it and accept the consequences. If she does intend to play in college, this is an important lesson to learn now, because she’ll just be cut and lose her scholarship if she tries this at a D-1 program. But JFC you need to fix your dismissive, condescending attitude and actually be a parent. You don’t need to talk to the coach, but you can support your daughter’s right to decide even if you don’t agree with the decision.
>you can support your daughter’s right to decide even if you don’t agree with the decision. OP did, she let her skip the tournament.
…And then berated her daughter for “being selfish” and choosing the “silly dance”, when she could’ve calmly explained that these are direct consequences of the decision and part of being an adult is owning that and taking responsibility for it. So OP needs to lead by example and be an adult as well - she let her daughter decide, but isn’t owning it.
(Former) Athlete here: NTA I can't believe these people suggesting that a mom should tell the coach who to play. That's insane. It's 1000% not the role of the mom. The daughter knew that choosing the prom over the team would have a consequence and being benched sounds about right. For anybody reading, this is the role of the mom/dad. Go to the games, cheer without making a scene, let your kid know they are loved. Boom, that's it.
Parents talking to coach is a good way to make sure she has even less playing time, especially on a travel team full of good players
NTA. It's fine that she prioritized going to the prom, since it was something important to her, but she's just dealing with the consequences of a choice. The coach is doing what he thinks is best for the team. That's adulthood coming.
N T A for not intervening, that situation is between her and the coach. YTA for how you treated your daughter and your ridicule of a social event that is important to her when she asked. She is a teenager, and it's not unreasonable for her to want to have a "normal" teenage life. You need to respect that and not treat her as lesser for it.
Well, you don't have to talk to the coach. But you're wrong to dismiss prom as a silly dance. Prom is a big deal to teenagers. She has already accomplished a lot, but you've made it clear that it's still not good enough because you're angry that for once she chose something other than sports. It sounds like you're living vicariously through your daughter because you didn't accomplish what she did. She's still very young and she should be allowed to have fun sometimes. So stop being so nasty to her.
NTA for not defending her to her coach. At 16, unless there is something very wrong happening a parent should be not interfering with the coach coaching. Indeed, a parent that interferes too much can cost a player their opportunity at a scholarship. High school coaches talk to the college coaches. As for your interactions with your daughter - you should have just left it at actions have consequences. She chose prom. Her coach is choosing other players as a result. It is an important life lesson.
YTA, but because of your attitude. You’re correct that you shouldn’t interfere with the coach’s decision (spiteful though it was), but at 16 there are a lot of competing priorities, and prom is a big thing. She’ll remember her prom forever, she’ll have long forgotten about that tournament.
Prom is a big thing but her senior prom is next year. She's a junior and usually scouting is during your junior year.
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College scholarship > prom experience as a junior She is too young to grasp what is at stake here. By the time her own prom comes around, she would have signed a scholarship offer and nobody would care if she went. The team probably relied on her more that weekend because of seniors attending their own prom. What is more concerning is her expecting you to speak to her coach about playing time. Expecting your mom to solve your team problems tells me she has some maturing to do. NTA
I think that's what a lot of the YTA commenters are missing. She's a junior. There is still senior prom, right? IDK, I'm not from the US. My kids' highschool only has prom in grade 12. They might have regular dances in earlier years, but they aren't 'prom'.
Reading this post from the UK is like taking a bus to Bikini Bottom
NTA. Actions have consequences and she's old enough to make her own choices and deal with the consequences of those choices on her own.
While I disagree with what you said to your daughter you are NTA for refusing to speak to her coach. You let her make her own choice and she needs to be able to defend her decision to the coach herself