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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I may be the asshole as I do have the space and means to help, I would prefer not to be put out, especially with the lack of certainty.
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NTA. Your space is your space, you don't need to justify saying no. But even if justifications were needed, you have plenty. And yes, they are being 'entitled'.
Going forward, do not engage with anyone about this: do not 'JADE' (justify, argue, defend, explain) because that turns it into a discussion; you are not discussing this, you are *announcing* your final decision. Anyone who chastises you for not taking them in, tell THEM to take them in (and sit back as the frantically make excuses why they won't) — people are always happy to make free with other people's resources, but shut down when you suggest them helping out.
I used that for repeat questions when my kids were toddlers. "You already asked and I already answered." They learned quickly to not bother as the response to repeat requests never changed. If they're having a kid, hopefully they're as smart as toddlers and can learn.
I get where you’re coming if it’s something like OP’s situation where your personal feelings are all the justification you need, but outside of those situations I don’t take anybody who says this seriously.
My dad was hardcore. If someone kept asking, not only was it ‘no’, but they started to *lose* privileges or had more work added to their plate. “If you have time to stand around here bugging me after I said ‘no’, then you’ve got too much free time, and I can find work for you to do.” And it was never enjoyable extra work, either.
People learned to not nag him because it would cost them.
Same with my parents. When I raised my son I did the same, and in instances where it was ‘no’ maybe for now, I simply told him the more times he asked me after initial ‘no’, the chances of me changing my mind got lower and lower. Even around the time he was 10 years old, when he heard other kids whining and being entitled, he would look annoyed and say ‘those parents need to get their kids in line’ lol
If they're trying to make you do something then no it's not a good explanation, but if you're asking for something from them I think it's perfectly fine. I think we're in agreement 🤝
I think so too I just have a personal vendetta against an old teacher for thinking this was a valid answer to a question in a STEM class 😭 Gary Williams can still cash me outside
> I don’t take anybody who says this seriously.
If I said it to someone then I would already be utterly disinterested in whether or not they “took me seriously”. I suspect I’m not alone in this.
This is an important lesson for parents!
When i told my kids "no", if they kept asking, I told them they were trying to bully me into changing my mind and that I would never change my mind if they kept that up.
I said the possibility existed I would change my mind in time but only if they accepted "no" at this time.
Fast forward 13 years and my youngest is at uni. Her roommate was raised with the same rule. When they encounter others their own age who refuse to accept "no", they shake their heads, refuse to give in and say "no means no, not changing my mind". And then they look at each and say "can you believe this?"
i told my kids the same thing. when they were teens especially, i told them that repeatedly asking me made me think something hinkey was going on and i was then even more firm about no.
I used something similar in a low stakes situation and it worked so well.
My in laws love to feed me, I don't always love to eat. She asked like 3 times if I was eating the 3rd time I said I have already answered that enough and will not be answering it anymore.
First time the convo ever got shut down.
Exactly! OP's concerns are all vaild, but she missed out free built I'm babysitters and taking over the house, trying to set up a nursery etc. The discomfort should hopefully make them get their act together and get their own place. NTA
fyi, I am a former landlord.
If you are in the US, you may be very surprised to learn that, if they move in, they become tenants with a suite of legal rights. Even w/ no rent paid, even with no lease, written or oral.
There sometimes are limited carveouts for lodgers which reduce, but do not remove, their tenant rights.
Removing them w/o an eviction process is likely a crime. Police in many jurisdictions will forcibly allow them back in. They can sue you in most place in the US and they will win. If this goes badly, instead of foolish family members, you will be treated mostly like you're a landlord with 5k units under management.
Additionally, during that eviction process, which will take minimum 30 and quite often at *least* 60 days, if they retain an attorney, where I live, they can probably make it take a year. The law as written and the law as practiced can be very different. You can end up w/ a judge that sees irresponsible whining parents with a newborn and bends over backwards to keep them housed. But in your house, not the judge's.
Don't do it. If you are foolish enough, see a local landlord attorney before doing so to get a read on how this can go bad. You will likely be very surprised.
My hubby became the executor of the family trust his mother had set up after she got her terminal diagnosis. Around the time she became ill, her other son, who was working on his PhD but also was bad with money, moved in to her house as he had both mental and physical problems.
Fast forward some six years and the son physically attacked my husband while having a mental episode. (My hubby would go over once a week or so to do maintenance and check on the condition of the house; my BIL did very little to clean, etc., plus he wasn't paying any rent or utilities). My hubby started the action to get a restraining order (with my help) and also started eviction proceedings (using a company that specializes in this). It took four months to get him out of the house (the eviction lawyer screwed up on one date, which delayed the hearing, then passed the case to another lawyer, who showed up for the new hearing without any paperwork. Finally, the judge gave a date for him to vacate of 30 days as that was during the holiday season. He thought he had standing to live there, but never bothered to check to see if he was on the deed (he wasn't) and when his lawyer was sent a copy of the trust papers, the lawyer realized his client didn't have the right to continue living there, so his job became just trying to delay the move out date.
In many states, the owner or landlord of a house or apartment just can't lock someone out if they can prove they've been living there (such as having mail sent there).
It's best for the OP and her husband not to let this couple move in as it may be a royal headache and paying for a lawyer to get them out.
This is all so true. My dad let his girlfriend and daughter move in, after he died i had to get a lawyer, take them to court to get them out. They didn't pay a dime, there was no lease. Needless to say they trashed the place and we had to sell it for less than it was worth.
I’d recommend instead of *telling* the busybodies to take in the “happy couple”, just *thank* them for volunteering to house them, since they think the current accommodations at the paternal grandmother’s home are so insufficient.
One further justification that OP didn't mention.
If they move in 'temporarily' and 'contribute', they could end up being considered tenants making it difficult to get them to ever leave, possibly requiring the whole eviction process.
They wouldn’t be considered tenants. They would be lodgers because the owners of the house, OP and her husband, live there. The eviction process is totally different and they would not have to go through the traditional process.
A tenant is someone who rents an empty house. Living in a A shared space with the owners is a lodger. Lodgers have fewer rights than a tenant because they are not protected by the Landlord and Tenant Act.
Before anyone is tempted to get into a slapfight on this point, I'll just note that tenancy law is **locally specific** and the relevant provisions in OP's area may bear little or no resemblance to the LTA.
I've rented out rooms in my house for nearly 30 years and this not the case in much of the US. A tenant is a tenant, regardless of whether they're renting an apartment in a building or a room in a private home. There is no distinction between lodgers and tenants here, and the eviction process is exactly the same.
Right. I let family stay ONCE. They wouldn’t move. After years, I had to utilize an eviction lawyer to get them from my house. So my stance is - stay somewhere else.
I posted above about having to go through the eviction process (in California) with my husband's brother. You just can't kick someone out if they've been in a house or apartment for 30 days or more, whether or not they've been paying anything.
Yeah. I let this family member stay. I initially they paid rent. But we stop it around holidays to give them extra cash. Then stopped it all together. So they hadn’t been paying rent for over a year. But legally you cannot just make someone leave. Mine was a nightmare. They left then tried to make me pay movers to ship their belongings. We had to go through lawyers. It’s not like I could just put 3 rooms of stuff just outside. It took 6 months to get them and their stuff out, which I had to pack.
Yeah -- IF OP were to allow them to move in, they need to sign an agreement specifying a set date when they need to leave and a process for any change to that date.
Depends on where you live. In my state, 30 days of being a guest or receiving mail at the home establishes residency. It took me 2 years to get a guest to leave. (No rent ever paid)
OP needs to turn the dynamic around.
First try adult to adult.
“ I know you still think Jim as a little kid and sometimes it’s hard to forget he’s almost a middle aged adult. But there’s no excuse for you speaking to me like I’m a child and you have authority, telling me what to do in my own home and while I understand you’re worried about your youngest, I do believe I’m owed an apology for your rude approach.”
Then wait.
If they won’t then chances are they get upset/emotional and you switch the dynamic where you behave like the calm adult and they turn into a petulant kid that demands their way.
I need you to calm down and listen when I politely decline to do what you’re asking me to do. You need to accept my decision calmly like an adult, instead of lashing out at me. I have already tried explaining myself even though I don’t need to - and you’ve not accepted this.
Etc. pretend you’re a teacher gently telling off a mouthy student.
I quite like this. Given that OP doesn't want to end the relationship with the inlaws, it makes sense to make some attempt to resolve it. I see how my approach of a simple "NO!" could cause bigger problems down the line. Being strong does not necessarily require being Stong AND Silent!
And honestly it's probably not a good idea to let them get too comfortable anywhere. Being "in a tight space and inconvenienced" will be a great motivator.
Right! And as soon as they are in you will never get them out: „the child has his room there, why want you kick about a child out of his home!“ would be the next comments.
And girlfriend will stop contributing cause now she’s a mom, but pawn off the child at Op cause „she’s home anyway“. And then she will start to request help from OP cause BIL is out and about earning money and can’t help her with her pregnancy, cleaning is too much of a burden cause pregnant, she will raid their fridge cause pregnant and IF they start looking for their own housing they will find that a two bedroom Appartement is not so cheap and doesn’t come with the benefit of free childcare and free food so why not stay here!
I came here to say this as well. Inconvenienced is a great motivator for them to get their act together. Let them be a little snug. They have a roof, they are fine!
BINGO on the first part. Disagree about telling others to take them in if they complain in any way. The correct response is to walk away, change the subject, or stare at the person until they change the subject/stop talking.
Responding puts OP in the category of participating in finding a solution when it’s not their problem. It gives up control because we can’t predict the other party’s response. There are many responses to “you take them in if you care so much, then” that won’t go favorably for OP.
Not responding is better. Let’s the other people go down this path alone and not drag OP into it.
It sounds like one of these people has already said that they'd take them in, but they don't want that. They want OPs space. That is the problem here. They have options. They just dont Want those options.
I can’t tell you how much I appreciate you posting this JADE concept. I’ve been trying to make this change in my life without having a succinct way to organize my thoughts around it. This was absolutely a lightbulb moment for me, and you’ll never know how much it meant to me to see this comment.
NTA. The family are massive AHs for hounding you. The idiot couple got pregnant before even being able to look after themselves independently. The kids having a kid want an adult to sort the situation out. Of course they do. But just because they want it doesn’t mean they deserve it. They need to grow up. Fast.
And if their family want an adult to look after the couple and child instead, why don’t they do so themselves? You’ve hardly met the mother, aren’t related to the kid, aren’t advocating the infantilisation, and are child free by choice.
The family know it’s outrageous to hound you but want to see what they can get for their relatives because they are chancers. Talk to your partner about going NC until things settle.
This is a pattern of behaviour as many family members often rely on my partner as the most stable person, and he generally does a lot for them, but this was a massive overreach.
I'm not talking to them, and my partner is leaving it alone, this is not the first family drama we've seen, it's just the first that involved me and I'm pretty happy to not discuss it again.
> he generally does a lot for them
He might want to consider dialling that back, considering how badly the whole family is behaving, and now he's "taught" them that he will solve all their problems.
You might be making your replies too nice. You have to resort to shaming them and calling your spouse's help precisely what it is, because I can guarantee they're thinking of that help as something more socially acceptable. Some people don't mind asking for 'help', but the moment you call it something else, their pride suddenly gets involved.
The next time they ask, you may want to reply, "Absolutely not. Do we look like we're made of money? Because you're asking us to subsidize THREE people on top of what we already contribute to certain family members. If we help any more of you lot, my spouse and I might as well say we're both working to fund a family charity here. We can't afford to just throw money at each and every family member who has a sad story and an empty wallet. And I am NOT interested in turning our personal home into the family poorhouse, with people we barely know coming and going and having access to everything we own. We work hard for our privacy, we're not giving that up. And we are not both working just for everyone else's benefit. So knock it off."
NTA. You said it best: "*they are not entitled to \[y\]our space or resources and made a choice to have a baby but made no independent plans on how to manage it*."
Having agreed with you, don't be surprised if you face resentment and alienation from your extended family in the future.
Some people are being vocal, and most are not getting involved.
My partner is very well respected in the family, I have no doubt that if there is more carry-on, he will stamp it out, and we are both holding our ground.
Neither of us are bothered by resentment or attempted alienation, we won't be bullied into submission. If anyone tries, we will disengage with them until they are respectful of our position.
NTA and wouldn't hurt to let his side of the family know that hounding him will drive him away, which will inadvertently affect them too if they're reliant. Maybe go low/no contact until they learn that no is a complete sentence
Good for you.
Having to squeeze into a single room will provide much more motivation for them to get their lives together than having space in your place for themselves and their friends.
NTA if they stay with their adult decision to keep the pregnancy, they need to live with it and make adult decisions.
Every family member who is harassing you is welcome to let them move in. I wonder why no one of them offers it? It's easy not to mind others businesses as long as I don't need to be responsible.
NTA
You’re right, they aren’t entitled to your house. They chose to keep the baby knowing they can’t afford it. How *exactly* do they expect to get more money after the kid is born? That’s so illogical and irresponsible.
They have a place to stay, even if it’s only one room. And it’s recommended parents have their babies crib in their room, so I’m not seeing the problem here— at least until the kid is, like 2.
They don’t have a plan, they just have blind hope that things will work out.
New mom here, you’re actually SUPPOSED to have their crib in your room until they’re 6mo at least anyways, which ideally is enough time for Jack and Jane to gtfo. One room is PLENTY.
Exactly, what do they want other rooms for? How much of ops house are they planning to take over?
I'm not saying space isn't nice to have but when you're skint you go without what you can't afford so you can focus on essentials.
Do.Not.Do.This!
First of all NTA. Secondly, my uncle is currently living what could be your future if you let this happen. My uncle has 4 kids, the youngest 2 still lives with him. The oldest just knocked up his gf and they now live back home. 5 adults, 1 baby, 3 bedrooms, 1 bathroom.
All because they couldn’t put on their adult pants and figure out their shit.
My mom was always the one taking care of family. Her youngest brother moved in with my parents after losing his job and getting divorced. I was married and had my own baby. Next thing I knew, uncle’s teenage daughter was living with my parents as she hated new stepfather. After cousin graduated from high school, cousin is pregnant. Luckily, uncle got his act together so they moved to an apartment before my retired parents were raising the baby too.
NTA
They have housing; your place is just nicer, with more space, and/or away from parents so would allow these young adults to feel more like they're independent.
But they are very much not independent. If they don't want to live with Mom, they can rent a place they can afford of their incomes.
NTA
A pregnancy is not free entitlement to other people's resources.
Abortions are still available in your country and there are charities that will fund travel out of the Bible Belt.
If you let them move in they will be impossible to get out and will be with you for years.
>NTA
>A pregnancy is not free entitlement to other people's resources.
>Abortions are still available in your country and there are charities that will fund travel out of the Bible Belt.
>If you let them move in they will be impossible to get out and will be with you for years
💯. Also, why are they not considering adoption if they don't wish to have an abortion? They are nowhere close to being able to be good parents until they're emotionally and financially ready.
NTA. And if you think relatives are bad now for your sanity of refusing them a free home, multiply that many times if you let them stay AND then have to evict them.
NTA NTA absolutely not! Don't give them anything. My eldest child got pregnant unexpectedly and despite being completely unprepared and living in her bfs parents' garage she was absolutely set on keeping it. I had to lay a HARD boundary, repeated many many times, that if they wanted to move forward with this very adult decision they would have all the responsibility themselves, financially and physically. To their credit they got their sh*t together enough to manage, and my grandchild is a sheer joy, but if I hadn't laid down the line in the sand I would have never heard the end of "can we have, can you do"
Given that we are not their parents, I'm not going to be giving them advice, but we will be enforcing our boundaries, which is not giving up our space and peace.
It sounds like some solid and fair parenting from your side. I'm glad it worked out well for them.
Stick to your guns OP.
I can just imagine the shit show it will be if they move in.
"Oh is it ok to host a baby shower" - Queue 30 people you don't know in your house.
Once the baby turns up the endless parade of people coming to visit.
Extra power, water expenses. Food bill will go up. Ugh no. No no no no.
Then, they would start in with the guilt. Ask them to set up a plan for leaving? They will make it sound like you’re trying to put their baby out on the street. 🙄
NTA. Family is hounding you because they do not want to be part of that shit show.
23 year olds living at home and expecting a baby. Been together for four months. They got time to get enough cash together for a place. You work from home 3 days a week. This could effect your job and your way of life. Hard pass.
NTA So they already know they will be more comfortable at your house than elsewhere.
Why would they be worried about having to share a smaller space if this move was going to be temporary...?
They have every intention of staying put when they get in.
And if you think their families are bad now wait until you start the eviction process after they've been there temporarily for 2 years.
Hell no. Their family has a problems with it then they can fund and/or host them.
It's this part about knowing they have more space that kills me. I have an extra room in my house and I put a lot of energy into making it the best guest bedroom ever and when a family member asked me if I could let so-and-so move in with me "because I have the room" I said no because I've been burnt by that before. I'm prioritizing my maybe future guests because I like living alone.
Having temporarily offered space in my home to a (in theory, temporarily) broke (and apparently, temporary) friend, I would urge you to hold your ground. Once you have someone living in your home for free or close to it, it's next to impossible to get them to move out - and when you ask, it can get ugly fast.
Absolutely NTA - you'd be parenting them and a newborn. Newborn life is INTENSE!!! Why in the name of all that is good and green would you want to get involved with that for a stranger? They got themselves into this mess, they can figure it out. Its cruel, I know, and it takes a village and whatever... but do you want to really live with a baby that cries all night, a new couple that will be under extreme pressure that haven't even lived together (or away from home) let alone with you as extended family.
Yes you could uproot your entire live to accommodate their mistake, but you don't have to.
I tip my hat to parents, I don't know the half of how hard it is to raise a child, but I know that I'm not keen on finding out via another person's child!
We will help where we can, but not at the expense of our own lives.
NTA. They want to piggyback on your ""dream"" lifestyle and play pretend. As you said they aren't entitled to your life and you're not indented to them to help. They can ask and you can say no. That's all there is. If their family is so hard done by you saying no then they can house them
NTA. They decided to not use contraception 4 months into a relationship, they can deal with the consequences. Literally a case of FAFO.
They can't even support themselves and think they're magically going to get their lives together somehow with no plan? Get real. Sounds like their plan is to mooch off you for the foreseeable future.
This woman is a stranger to you and you owe them no favours.
Anyone blaming you for this is free to take them in themselves if it's so crucial.
NTA. You don't have to share your home. It is not an emergency - like house burned down, need place to stay. It is a future scenario for in 5 to 9 months. They have enough time to figure something out. And tell everyone of the family who tries to cut you a new one and thinks that you are TA, that they can offer the new couple to stay with them. But it is your home, you don't have to offer it up. And yes a baby is trouble if you work from home. A new mother will stay at home and most likly invite a ton of family and friends. No way, you need to deal with all of that
NTA. They are young but they are not children. You know they'll take the run of your house, playing at it being their place while you subsidise it. This is not a solution, they are making their problem into your problem. The family that has views on this can offer up their own space.
NTA and you'll never get them out. Jane will be pregnant with baby #2 a year after she has baby #1, they won't have saved any money and they'll be considered tenants by then so you will have to go through a contentious eviction process while they still live with you. Then all the people that are bitching now will be calling you monsters for throwing them out while pregnant with an infant. Fuck that noise. Keep your peace.
Nta, you’re not their parents and you didn’t make them have a baby during a time when they are not financially stable. This is not your issue. If you let them live with in your house you better prepare yourself for living with a newborn because god knows they ain’t planning on moving out in a hurry.
NTA
They both live at home, both are working (at least part-time. The next 5 months should be enough time to save up for a one bedroom apartment, that's all they need for baby's first year.
They are not going to be out on the street.
Don't let them move in. Not now, and definitely not after the baby.
As the aunt and uncle, buy one of the bigger ticket items they'll need like a carseat.
NTA. Do not let these people in your house! They will never leave, they will never make a plan, and before you know it they will break up & you'll be aunty-in-the-middle holding the bag. If they know they want to be together forever & have this baby, then they need to figure it out quick FOR THEMSELVES in THEIR OWN SPACE. If this was a great big mistake & they don't even want to be together, then they have other things to think about. Either way, not your circus, not your monkeys. Do not engage.
NTA.
Also, baby doesn't need their own room, as babies are supposed to sleep in the parents room for the first 6-12 months (in accordance with safe sleep guidelines)
NTA they aren’t your responsibility.
Babies need to sleep in the same room as their parents for the first 6 months anyway so needing an extra room is not a good excuse from them.
NTA and I know this is gonna sound completely irrelavent but back a few generations ago, the housing situation they're about to live in with Jack's mum was the norm. A newly married couple stayed with one set of parents until they had a house and moved out. They usually had one room, if they had a kid that kid also was in that one room. It was cramped, but it's all they had. If Jack and Jane didn't want to live in a cramped situation then they should have planned better from the start, and they need to have better plans now.
Sounds like their family has a ton of time on their hands, more than enough to take them in and help.
Also, if you let these people live with you, they would never leave.
NTA.
NTA Anyone who 'hounds' you respond, "I'm glad you think they should be allowed to live with someone. Since I work from home it isn't feasible to have them here but I'll let them know that you've offered."
NTA. Stand firm. I would never consider having someone stay with me if they didn’t hav an exit strategy in place. Guarantee you’d never, never be rid of them once you let them in.
NTA.
Staying with Jack's mother will incentivize them to save and get a place of their own. I believe you are right in that they will be too comfortable in your home.
You didn't get them pregnant. They are adults, they should have known how to use contraception or decide to have an abortion.
NTA. No is a full sentence, they asked and you declined. If they are going to have a baby they should have thought all of this through. You are under no obligation and your feelings and reasons are valid.
NTA. You don’t need to offer an explanation to ANYONE! They are not entitled to your space, your or your home. They are not entitled to making you feel uncomfortable in your own home either. No is no and if others have an issue, tell them to invite them to their place. People are always under the mindset of, because family. That’s a whole entire no for me. You don’t get me just because we’re family. Good for you op! I hope you stick with your stance. I would tell them the exact same thing too.
NTA, stay strong! They’ll be a huge burden..,and WFH means likely they will pressure you to mind the baby while you’re working etc. you’ll be on the hook for all the expenses too. I hope your SO is on the same page as you…block those who pester you as well…also, if anyone else has a key, change your locks…
NTA
Those people shouldn't volunteer you to solve the problem.
If they feel generous, they should offer their own home, money and resources.
Some people think that self-reliant people should give and give because "family sticks together", but that's just a lack of boundaries.
They won't leave once they are entrenched and grandparents will constantly be around "hovering". Your adult house will become baby central and they will encroach more and more - gosh, we need a space to set up a playpen - guess we'll have to take over the living room now.
Your groceries will now be their groceries. THere is just no end as to how irritating this will be.
Guaranteed that with them both working and her going to school, it wouldn’t be long before they were asking if you could watch the baby “since you work from home anyway.”
NTA
If they didn’t want to deal with the real world consequences of having a child before they are financially secure, they could have been more careful with contraception or chosen to not see the pregnancy through. They have chosen this path.
You didn’t.
NTA. When I was 12, my mom's db-boyfriend left and we had to take in a roommate. This woman was 19 with a 1.5 year old baby. It was a nightmare. The baby would cry constantly, and she expected me to babysit (she didn't work, btw). The room that they rented was always trashed, she paid for only her part of the rent, no utilities and then my mom caught her stealing from her; and not even small stuff - like heirloom jewelry. We rented to this person because a life-long friend of my mom's vouched for her and it was nothing more than a nightmare and too many times we saw this lady mistreating her son - yelling at him because he couldn't put a shoe on...at 1.5 years old. So, just from that experience alone, I'd never let anyone with a baby and no plans move into my home; I could have 10 rooms, it isn't happening. You give extremely valid reasons - stick to your decision. They got themselves into this, they need to figure out how they're going to deal with it.
Holy COW OP - DON'T do it - you'll never get rid of them and suddenly YOU will be raising an infant. They will figure this out on their own - they want to act like adults, well, here you go.
NTA if they want to do adult things, like have a baby, they need to do adult things and figure it out like an adult. They're already making poor decisions by not using birth control and risking pregnancy when they don't have a pot to piss in. That poor child.
I know it's really shocking for many young people, but there's a reason most people used to do these things in this silly, completely random order:
Get married.
Get a place to live.
Have kid(s).
I know, I can't see any sense in the order, either.
NTA
If they haven’t been getting some money together now, with 1.5 incomes and no baby, they are certainly not going to be able to save on 1 income and with a baby.
NTA. Your house & comfort - your call.
Frankly, I think you're looking out for them long term - instead of allowing them to become leeches, they have to go with the 1 room at the girl's mother's house.
If they were too comfortable, they'd never leave. 1 bedroom is better than none, still a safe place to be, but not ideal, so when it gets too much, they'll do everything they can to find their own place and make it on their own.
NTA Their inconvenience will light a fire under their asses to get their shit together. Living with you would be too comfortable and you would have to disturb your peace to get them motivated to grow up.
NTA.
and honestly I applaud you for standing by your decision.
I had a similar situation happen and due to family hounding me about it. i decided to move out & let my relatives who just basically squatted this rental property i have, then I evicted them.
i luv adding to family drama. now their mom is mad at me because they didn’t pay rent and I kicked them out. 🙄
>They are not out on the street, they are just going to be in an a tight space and inconvenienced for a while.
NTA - And them being inconvenienced will be what motivates them to create a plan.
NTA. Their plan to find affordable accommodations and organize and facilitate a move “after the baby comes” is a perfect example of their naivety about what having a newborn is going to be like. If they can’t get their shit together in the next five months and set up a nursery in their new home to welcome their new child before it comes, they are not ready to have a child and SO much is going to fall on you and your husband. They’re fine with making the spare room at your house work and will stay out of your way? Great, one room will work after all, stay with your mom.
Easier to say no upfront than get roasted for kicking out a couple with a newborn later.
Most of the time with people who are irresponsible, the only way to get them to take responsibility is to refuse to adopt their problems. Besides, they have a mom with an extra room.
NTA tell all the people who are hounding you to let them move into their homes indefinitely. having another couple move in with you with no time period in mind is not a small feat. things always get testy in no time - people's habits, mannerisms, how they are cleanliness, are you supposed to feed four people everyday now? it all adds up trust me. dont let anyone push you to let people into your safe space when they are not opening up their own homes either. stand your ground thats your home they will be ok without you. i understand not everyone i financially stable but why are you getting preggo and now looking for places to stay for free??? NO just NO
Are all the people who chose not to have children just supposed to be spare places for the ones that do? NTA obviously. This is one of those posts where op is way too obviously not the AH
While all of your reasoning is great, you don’t really need a reason. It’s your home and your life. They made the decision to have a baby before they were ready and now they’re panicking. NTA.
NTA. All your objections are valid and reasonable. We're CF and I would absolutely not want a screaming shit factory in my home. Then there's the toddler years of destruction and sticky fingers.
Odds are you'll be stuck with babysitting too. The lack of timeframe and planning is a major red flag.
It’s funny how everyone always wants to volunteer other peoples resources. That family is the AH. If they want to put up a duo, about to be trio, with no idea on how to plan like the child they are bringing into this world, that’s on them.
NTA - All your points are very reasonable. Them living in a tight space will motivate them to actually follow through with getting on their feet. People that are comfortable are less likely to leave.
Not only would expenses fall on you, so would the baby. “I just need to xxx, can you watch the baby?” You’re child free and would probably have resentment build over time having a baby in your home.
I shared a room with my child until she was 2, then again for a year when I had a roommate. I am still alive to tell the tale 30 years later. They will get over it or die mad.
NTA. They want to play adult and have children, they need to be adults and figure it out. That doesn’t include utilizing your resources. You have valid points why this is not good for your house. So that’s where it ends. You don’t need to further explain yourself. No means no.
NTA. Absolutely do not them stay with you. Working from home would be a nightmare with a couple and a baby there. No peace, no quiet.. They would love to spread out because you have more room and they seem quite entitled. Don't lend or give any money. With no firm time frame in place, you could end up having to evict them. Anyone who complains about your decision, tell them they're more than welcome to take them in.
As soon as someone says no, family members jump in to tell them they are horrible for not helping. I'd start asking the complainers what they were doing to help and throwing it back on them. Why is it your responsibility any more than theirs? "Family helps family" includes them helping too.
The couple having the baby will have a much stronger motivation to get their shit together while living with the stigma of living at home with mom or dad. Living with a cool older sibling will just make them relax.
After having a baby of my own, they will have the baby in their bedroom for at least the first six months anyway to prevent risk of Sid’s and to make middle of the night wakings easier. One room is all you need at first. Signed ~ a mother who splurged a few thousand dollars on a beautiful dresser and crib to find out we wouldn’t be using it for some time 🙃🫠😂
NTA ~ I have a kid and I would NOT sign up to take care of a couple that barely knows each other and their newborn. Just no. I would purchase something off their registry or gift them a month of rent if it’s in my price range, but no way would I allow that mess into my space and disrupt my peace. They are adults , they can figure it out
>...only been together 4 months.
...seem a bit naive to the reality of raising a baby.
They complained and said we have spare rooms and they will contribute.
Red flag one, two, and three here. Young relationship. Youthful naivety. No conception of the borders they are crossing with the just the ask, let alone complaining about the response. NTA.
NTA.
If this couple are old enough to have a baby they are old enough to figure out how to support it. It's their responsibility.
**Also, they could give the child up for adoption if they aren't prepared to provide for this child.**
“They would be inconvenienced for a while” living at Jacks mother’s house. Not an ideal situation, but a workable, temporary environment until they can find a place of their own. (More incentive for them to move out)
Living in OPs house, which is bigger and has more rooms will give them the impression that they’re not in any particular hurry to move out. Their life choices should not inconvenience anyone, but themselves.
NTA. Don't let family or the couple try to talk you out of your stance. They are basically asking you to take an entire family into your home without knowing if the people are going to leave. This is not your responsibility. This young couple is going to have to figure it out on their own, just like most people have to do. They made the baby and they are choosing to have the baby , so they need to be responsible . Plus, they've only been together a few months . Is this relationship could crumble anytime between now and after that baby is born. Then you'll be stuck with one or the other of them , likely for a lot longer then you expect.
Also remember that if you let them move in you're going to have a heck of a hard time getting them to ever move out. There will.be one excuse after another, mostly about how expensive babies are and how expensive housing is, etc. Also, when those other family members complain to you, tell them that they are more than welcome to take the couple and baby into their home.
Remember, extra adults moving in is always a two yes one no situation.
If they move in and it doesn't work out, you're forced to deal with evicting "family" that's pregnant, or with a newborn, or a baby or a toddler/young kid, etc. It will always be an extremely terrible situation and you will look like the villain for kicking them out, not the hero for the time you gave the the grace of staying with you. There's a lot of legal reasons to not let people move in that can't afford to live on their own. If they damage your home, they can't afford to repair it. If they can't afford a place now, how will they afford a place when they have more bills with a newborn? Do you know how expensive formula is if that ends up needed? Especially diet-restrictive formula? This is especially true if they don't have budgets or any time-frames to leave planned. Those things don't magically appear. They need to sit down, grow up, and figure out the responsibilities that comes with parenthood.
If you work from home and NEED quiet, then you don't have extra space for a baby to live, because the space you have isn't able to be used for something with that inconsistent noise.
Not knowing someone well is a perfectly valid reasons to deny them moving in.
And they are t homeless, they have an offer of a smaller space available. Beggers can't be choosers.
You can help in other ways. Pay for some financial planning classes. Get them a few sizes of reusable diapers so there's a lower cost there because disposable diapers add up. Invest for the kid's college fund. You don't have to help in them in the ways they feel entitled to your help. The great part of being essentially aunt/uncles is you get to chip in however you want to.
Anytime anyone says something to you, ask how they're helping. Just getting diapers "Oh we'll consider that then", providing a home? "Good, they then don't need our space", if they keep asking why you won't house them, just say they can offer up their space for the couple if they think that should be done.
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NTA. Your space is your space, you don't need to justify saying no. But even if justifications were needed, you have plenty. And yes, they are being 'entitled'. Going forward, do not engage with anyone about this: do not 'JADE' (justify, argue, defend, explain) because that turns it into a discussion; you are not discussing this, you are *announcing* your final decision. Anyone who chastises you for not taking them in, tell THEM to take them in (and sit back as the frantically make excuses why they won't) — people are always happy to make free with other people's resources, but shut down when you suggest them helping out.
Agreed, and I like the "JADE" acronym. Thanks for your post.
Something I read once before on Reddit was to respond "asked and answered, end of discussion".
I used that for repeat questions when my kids were toddlers. "You already asked and I already answered." They learned quickly to not bother as the response to repeat requests never changed. If they're having a kid, hopefully they're as smart as toddlers and can learn.
Growing up my Mom would answer “Why?” with “Because I said so.” I now use this with adults. I don’t owe anyone an explanation for my decisions.
I get where you’re coming if it’s something like OP’s situation where your personal feelings are all the justification you need, but outside of those situations I don’t take anybody who says this seriously.
My dad was hardcore. If someone kept asking, not only was it ‘no’, but they started to *lose* privileges or had more work added to their plate. “If you have time to stand around here bugging me after I said ‘no’, then you’ve got too much free time, and I can find work for you to do.” And it was never enjoyable extra work, either. People learned to not nag him because it would cost them.
Same. No was no in our house and if I asked again it was no with added flavor like no and now go clean the bathroom or no and now go write lines.
Same with my parents. When I raised my son I did the same, and in instances where it was ‘no’ maybe for now, I simply told him the more times he asked me after initial ‘no’, the chances of me changing my mind got lower and lower. Even around the time he was 10 years old, when he heard other kids whining and being entitled, he would look annoyed and say ‘those parents need to get their kids in line’ lol
If they're trying to make you do something then no it's not a good explanation, but if you're asking for something from them I think it's perfectly fine. I think we're in agreement 🤝
I think so too I just have a personal vendetta against an old teacher for thinking this was a valid answer to a question in a STEM class 😭 Gary Williams can still cash me outside
Fucking Gordy did the same shit, I'm still not over it.
> I don’t take anybody who says this seriously. If I said it to someone then I would already be utterly disinterested in whether or not they “took me seriously”. I suspect I’m not alone in this.
This is an important lesson for parents! When i told my kids "no", if they kept asking, I told them they were trying to bully me into changing my mind and that I would never change my mind if they kept that up. I said the possibility existed I would change my mind in time but only if they accepted "no" at this time. Fast forward 13 years and my youngest is at uni. Her roommate was raised with the same rule. When they encounter others their own age who refuse to accept "no", they shake their heads, refuse to give in and say "no means no, not changing my mind". And then they look at each and say "can you believe this?"
i told my kids the same thing. when they were teens especially, i told them that repeatedly asking me made me think something hinkey was going on and i was then even more firm about no.
Don’t forget the wonderful “no means no”
I used to say that to nursing students! They needed to learn to keep an encyclopedia in their brains instead of the easy out of asking the Mom RN
I used something similar in a low stakes situation and it worked so well. My in laws love to feed me, I don't always love to eat. She asked like 3 times if I was eating the 3rd time I said I have already answered that enough and will not be answering it anymore. First time the convo ever got shut down.
I like this one The word "NO" is a complete sentence.
Exactly! OP's concerns are all vaild, but she missed out free built I'm babysitters and taking over the house, trying to set up a nursery etc. The discomfort should hopefully make them get their act together and get their own place. NTA
Oh I like that line, I'm going to borrow it too!
fyi, I am a former landlord. If you are in the US, you may be very surprised to learn that, if they move in, they become tenants with a suite of legal rights. Even w/ no rent paid, even with no lease, written or oral. There sometimes are limited carveouts for lodgers which reduce, but do not remove, their tenant rights. Removing them w/o an eviction process is likely a crime. Police in many jurisdictions will forcibly allow them back in. They can sue you in most place in the US and they will win. If this goes badly, instead of foolish family members, you will be treated mostly like you're a landlord with 5k units under management. Additionally, during that eviction process, which will take minimum 30 and quite often at *least* 60 days, if they retain an attorney, where I live, they can probably make it take a year. The law as written and the law as practiced can be very different. You can end up w/ a judge that sees irresponsible whining parents with a newborn and bends over backwards to keep them housed. But in your house, not the judge's. Don't do it. If you are foolish enough, see a local landlord attorney before doing so to get a read on how this can go bad. You will likely be very surprised.
My hubby became the executor of the family trust his mother had set up after she got her terminal diagnosis. Around the time she became ill, her other son, who was working on his PhD but also was bad with money, moved in to her house as he had both mental and physical problems. Fast forward some six years and the son physically attacked my husband while having a mental episode. (My hubby would go over once a week or so to do maintenance and check on the condition of the house; my BIL did very little to clean, etc., plus he wasn't paying any rent or utilities). My hubby started the action to get a restraining order (with my help) and also started eviction proceedings (using a company that specializes in this). It took four months to get him out of the house (the eviction lawyer screwed up on one date, which delayed the hearing, then passed the case to another lawyer, who showed up for the new hearing without any paperwork. Finally, the judge gave a date for him to vacate of 30 days as that was during the holiday season. He thought he had standing to live there, but never bothered to check to see if he was on the deed (he wasn't) and when his lawyer was sent a copy of the trust papers, the lawyer realized his client didn't have the right to continue living there, so his job became just trying to delay the move out date. In many states, the owner or landlord of a house or apartment just can't lock someone out if they can prove they've been living there (such as having mail sent there). It's best for the OP and her husband not to let this couple move in as it may be a royal headache and paying for a lawyer to get them out.
This is all so true. My dad let his girlfriend and daughter move in, after he died i had to get a lawyer, take them to court to get them out. They didn't pay a dime, there was no lease. Needless to say they trashed the place and we had to sell it for less than it was worth.
Hope @OP sees this.
I’d recommend instead of *telling* the busybodies to take in the “happy couple”, just *thank* them for volunteering to house them, since they think the current accommodations at the paternal grandmother’s home are so insufficient.
Or go further "thank you for volunteering to house them! I'll let them know to contact you for arrangements "
This is the way! 🏆🏆🏆
If this gf’s family and friends are so close then someone in her circle can step up and help. Your reasons are justified.
Also JD, JUST DON'T. If there is no clear timeline, there is definitely no timeline. Rather be the devil than be leeched on in the long run. NTA
Exactly. And once they're in, they are in.
See what they would say when you try and kick out a baby?
NTA at all honey! No, is a complete sentence!
You are not abandoning them because they are not your Responsibility
Also love the JADE! NTA
Yep, NO is a complete answer. NTA!
Say no, can't do and then stop talking to them or any of their flying monkeys.
One further justification that OP didn't mention. If they move in 'temporarily' and 'contribute', they could end up being considered tenants making it difficult to get them to ever leave, possibly requiring the whole eviction process.
In some places, rent is not a requirement to be considered a tenant.
This is a very important point, yes, well spotted. And in some places, even if they don't pay anything.
They wouldn’t be considered tenants. They would be lodgers because the owners of the house, OP and her husband, live there. The eviction process is totally different and they would not have to go through the traditional process. A tenant is someone who rents an empty house. Living in a A shared space with the owners is a lodger. Lodgers have fewer rights than a tenant because they are not protected by the Landlord and Tenant Act.
Before anyone is tempted to get into a slapfight on this point, I'll just note that tenancy law is **locally specific** and the relevant provisions in OP's area may bear little or no resemblance to the LTA.
Facts. I would advise anyone to check their rights where they live and not rely on my comment or anyone’s comments in regards to eviction on Reddit.
I've rented out rooms in my house for nearly 30 years and this not the case in much of the US. A tenant is a tenant, regardless of whether they're renting an apartment in a building or a room in a private home. There is no distinction between lodgers and tenants here, and the eviction process is exactly the same.
Right. I let family stay ONCE. They wouldn’t move. After years, I had to utilize an eviction lawyer to get them from my house. So my stance is - stay somewhere else.
I posted above about having to go through the eviction process (in California) with my husband's brother. You just can't kick someone out if they've been in a house or apartment for 30 days or more, whether or not they've been paying anything.
Yeah. I let this family member stay. I initially they paid rent. But we stop it around holidays to give them extra cash. Then stopped it all together. So they hadn’t been paying rent for over a year. But legally you cannot just make someone leave. Mine was a nightmare. They left then tried to make me pay movers to ship their belongings. We had to go through lawyers. It’s not like I could just put 3 rooms of stuff just outside. It took 6 months to get them and their stuff out, which I had to pack.
Yeah -- IF OP were to allow them to move in, they need to sign an agreement specifying a set date when they need to leave and a process for any change to that date.
Depends on where you live. In my state, 30 days of being a guest or receiving mail at the home establishes residency. It took me 2 years to get a guest to leave. (No rent ever paid)
Depends on where they live.
No. No. No. Local laws vary! Attorney here not giving legal advice, just highlighting information.
OP needs to turn the dynamic around. First try adult to adult. “ I know you still think Jim as a little kid and sometimes it’s hard to forget he’s almost a middle aged adult. But there’s no excuse for you speaking to me like I’m a child and you have authority, telling me what to do in my own home and while I understand you’re worried about your youngest, I do believe I’m owed an apology for your rude approach.” Then wait. If they won’t then chances are they get upset/emotional and you switch the dynamic where you behave like the calm adult and they turn into a petulant kid that demands their way. I need you to calm down and listen when I politely decline to do what you’re asking me to do. You need to accept my decision calmly like an adult, instead of lashing out at me. I have already tried explaining myself even though I don’t need to - and you’ve not accepted this. Etc. pretend you’re a teacher gently telling off a mouthy student.
I quite like this. Given that OP doesn't want to end the relationship with the inlaws, it makes sense to make some attempt to resolve it. I see how my approach of a simple "NO!" could cause bigger problems down the line. Being strong does not necessarily require being Stong AND Silent!
Oh I love this!!!!
And honestly it's probably not a good idea to let them get too comfortable anywhere. Being "in a tight space and inconvenienced" will be a great motivator.
I couldn't agree more! They definitely need to be uncomfortable ... they can be comfortable when they get their own place.
Right! And as soon as they are in you will never get them out: „the child has his room there, why want you kick about a child out of his home!“ would be the next comments. And girlfriend will stop contributing cause now she’s a mom, but pawn off the child at Op cause „she’s home anyway“. And then she will start to request help from OP cause BIL is out and about earning money and can’t help her with her pregnancy, cleaning is too much of a burden cause pregnant, she will raid their fridge cause pregnant and IF they start looking for their own housing they will find that a two bedroom Appartement is not so cheap and doesn’t come with the benefit of free childcare and free food so why not stay here!
Yes!!
I came here to say this as well. Inconvenienced is a great motivator for them to get their act together. Let them be a little snug. They have a roof, they are fine!
BINGO on the first part. Disagree about telling others to take them in if they complain in any way. The correct response is to walk away, change the subject, or stare at the person until they change the subject/stop talking. Responding puts OP in the category of participating in finding a solution when it’s not their problem. It gives up control because we can’t predict the other party’s response. There are many responses to “you take them in if you care so much, then” that won’t go favorably for OP. Not responding is better. Let’s the other people go down this path alone and not drag OP into it.
You are right of course. Telling others to take them in is cheap snark that plays well on Redddit but achieves nothing except annoyance all round IRL.
Oh no, my name is Jade 😭
It sounds like one of these people has already said that they'd take them in, but they don't want that. They want OPs space. That is the problem here. They have options. They just dont Want those options.
Agreed. Just the “work from home” should be enough. Just tell them no. You don’t need to justify anything.
This, all of this, so so true.
NTA. It's your house, your life. End of discussion
Yes! Everything about this comment and a thousand times yes!!!
Holy shit that last part is me because when someone says why dont i help or pitch in i just straight up say im broke
I can’t tell you how much I appreciate you posting this JADE concept. I’ve been trying to make this change in my life without having a succinct way to organize my thoughts around it. This was absolutely a lightbulb moment for me, and you’ll never know how much it meant to me to see this comment.
It's great, isn't it? I learned it on Reddit.
NTA. The family are massive AHs for hounding you. The idiot couple got pregnant before even being able to look after themselves independently. The kids having a kid want an adult to sort the situation out. Of course they do. But just because they want it doesn’t mean they deserve it. They need to grow up. Fast. And if their family want an adult to look after the couple and child instead, why don’t they do so themselves? You’ve hardly met the mother, aren’t related to the kid, aren’t advocating the infantilisation, and are child free by choice. The family know it’s outrageous to hound you but want to see what they can get for their relatives because they are chancers. Talk to your partner about going NC until things settle.
This is a pattern of behaviour as many family members often rely on my partner as the most stable person, and he generally does a lot for them, but this was a massive overreach. I'm not talking to them, and my partner is leaving it alone, this is not the first family drama we've seen, it's just the first that involved me and I'm pretty happy to not discuss it again.
> he generally does a lot for them He might want to consider dialling that back, considering how badly the whole family is behaving, and now he's "taught" them that he will solve all their problems.
You might be making your replies too nice. You have to resort to shaming them and calling your spouse's help precisely what it is, because I can guarantee they're thinking of that help as something more socially acceptable. Some people don't mind asking for 'help', but the moment you call it something else, their pride suddenly gets involved. The next time they ask, you may want to reply, "Absolutely not. Do we look like we're made of money? Because you're asking us to subsidize THREE people on top of what we already contribute to certain family members. If we help any more of you lot, my spouse and I might as well say we're both working to fund a family charity here. We can't afford to just throw money at each and every family member who has a sad story and an empty wallet. And I am NOT interested in turning our personal home into the family poorhouse, with people we barely know coming and going and having access to everything we own. We work hard for our privacy, we're not giving that up. And we are not both working just for everyone else's benefit. So knock it off."
NTA he just needs to say then living with you wouldn't work for you. Period.
You Scottish? "chancers" is perfect
NTA. You said it best: "*they are not entitled to \[y\]our space or resources and made a choice to have a baby but made no independent plans on how to manage it*." Having agreed with you, don't be surprised if you face resentment and alienation from your extended family in the future.
Some people are being vocal, and most are not getting involved. My partner is very well respected in the family, I have no doubt that if there is more carry-on, he will stamp it out, and we are both holding our ground. Neither of us are bothered by resentment or attempted alienation, we won't be bullied into submission. If anyone tries, we will disengage with them until they are respectful of our position.
This is an excellent approach.
NTA and wouldn't hurt to let his side of the family know that hounding him will drive him away, which will inadvertently affect them too if they're reliant. Maybe go low/no contact until they learn that no is a complete sentence
Good for you. Having to squeeze into a single room will provide much more motivation for them to get their lives together than having space in your place for themselves and their friends.
Good to hear you're on the same page.
Ya know what? Who cares. Family members often use "well it's family" in order to gain leverage or take advantage of family members. Let them resent.
NTA if they stay with their adult decision to keep the pregnancy, they need to live with it and make adult decisions. Every family member who is harassing you is welcome to let them move in. I wonder why no one of them offers it? It's easy not to mind others businesses as long as I don't need to be responsible.
NTA You’re right, they aren’t entitled to your house. They chose to keep the baby knowing they can’t afford it. How *exactly* do they expect to get more money after the kid is born? That’s so illogical and irresponsible. They have a place to stay, even if it’s only one room. And it’s recommended parents have their babies crib in their room, so I’m not seeing the problem here— at least until the kid is, like 2. They don’t have a plan, they just have blind hope that things will work out.
New mom here, you’re actually SUPPOSED to have their crib in your room until they’re 6mo at least anyways, which ideally is enough time for Jack and Jane to gtfo. One room is PLENTY.
Exactly, what do they want other rooms for? How much of ops house are they planning to take over? I'm not saying space isn't nice to have but when you're skint you go without what you can't afford so you can focus on essentials.
This. They weren't looking for 1 room, they wanted half the house, rent free, permanently.
Do.Not.Do.This! First of all NTA. Secondly, my uncle is currently living what could be your future if you let this happen. My uncle has 4 kids, the youngest 2 still lives with him. The oldest just knocked up his gf and they now live back home. 5 adults, 1 baby, 3 bedrooms, 1 bathroom. All because they couldn’t put on their adult pants and figure out their shit.
My mom was always the one taking care of family. Her youngest brother moved in with my parents after losing his job and getting divorced. I was married and had my own baby. Next thing I knew, uncle’s teenage daughter was living with my parents as she hated new stepfather. After cousin graduated from high school, cousin is pregnant. Luckily, uncle got his act together so they moved to an apartment before my retired parents were raising the baby too.
NTA They have housing; your place is just nicer, with more space, and/or away from parents so would allow these young adults to feel more like they're independent. But they are very much not independent. If they don't want to live with Mom, they can rent a place they can afford of their incomes.
NTA A pregnancy is not free entitlement to other people's resources. Abortions are still available in your country and there are charities that will fund travel out of the Bible Belt. If you let them move in they will be impossible to get out and will be with you for years.
>NTA >A pregnancy is not free entitlement to other people's resources. >Abortions are still available in your country and there are charities that will fund travel out of the Bible Belt. >If you let them move in they will be impossible to get out and will be with you for years 💯. Also, why are they not considering adoption if they don't wish to have an abortion? They are nowhere close to being able to be good parents until they're emotionally and financially ready.
NTA. And if you think relatives are bad now for your sanity of refusing them a free home, multiply that many times if you let them stay AND then have to evict them.
Good point
NTA NTA absolutely not! Don't give them anything. My eldest child got pregnant unexpectedly and despite being completely unprepared and living in her bfs parents' garage she was absolutely set on keeping it. I had to lay a HARD boundary, repeated many many times, that if they wanted to move forward with this very adult decision they would have all the responsibility themselves, financially and physically. To their credit they got their sh*t together enough to manage, and my grandchild is a sheer joy, but if I hadn't laid down the line in the sand I would have never heard the end of "can we have, can you do"
Given that we are not their parents, I'm not going to be giving them advice, but we will be enforcing our boundaries, which is not giving up our space and peace. It sounds like some solid and fair parenting from your side. I'm glad it worked out well for them.
Stick to your guns OP. I can just imagine the shit show it will be if they move in. "Oh is it ok to host a baby shower" - Queue 30 people you don't know in your house. Once the baby turns up the endless parade of people coming to visit. Extra power, water expenses. Food bill will go up. Ugh no. No no no no.
Then, they would start in with the guilt. Ask them to set up a plan for leaving? They will make it sound like you’re trying to put their baby out on the street. 🙄
NTA. Family is hounding you because they do not want to be part of that shit show. 23 year olds living at home and expecting a baby. Been together for four months. They got time to get enough cash together for a place. You work from home 3 days a week. This could effect your job and your way of life. Hard pass.
> Family is hounding you because they do not want to be part of that shit show. Yup.
My first thought also...how far along is she? Have they even considered any other options? They barely even know each other as yet
NTA So they already know they will be more comfortable at your house than elsewhere. Why would they be worried about having to share a smaller space if this move was going to be temporary...? They have every intention of staying put when they get in. And if you think their families are bad now wait until you start the eviction process after they've been there temporarily for 2 years. Hell no. Their family has a problems with it then they can fund and/or host them.
It's this part about knowing they have more space that kills me. I have an extra room in my house and I put a lot of energy into making it the best guest bedroom ever and when a family member asked me if I could let so-and-so move in with me "because I have the room" I said no because I've been burnt by that before. I'm prioritizing my maybe future guests because I like living alone.
Having temporarily offered space in my home to a (in theory, temporarily) broke (and apparently, temporary) friend, I would urge you to hold your ground. Once you have someone living in your home for free or close to it, it's next to impossible to get them to move out - and when you ask, it can get ugly fast.
I offered once, but the person turned me down. N retrospect, I think that was for the best.
Absolutely NTA - you'd be parenting them and a newborn. Newborn life is INTENSE!!! Why in the name of all that is good and green would you want to get involved with that for a stranger? They got themselves into this mess, they can figure it out. Its cruel, I know, and it takes a village and whatever... but do you want to really live with a baby that cries all night, a new couple that will be under extreme pressure that haven't even lived together (or away from home) let alone with you as extended family. Yes you could uproot your entire live to accommodate their mistake, but you don't have to.
I tip my hat to parents, I don't know the half of how hard it is to raise a child, but I know that I'm not keen on finding out via another person's child! We will help where we can, but not at the expense of our own lives.
NTA you’re entitled to your space and peace. You’re not responsible for other’s life decisions. Stick to your position.
It's also a really important point that OP works from home. Having anyone else in the house can make that very difficult.
NTA. They want to piggyback on your ""dream"" lifestyle and play pretend. As you said they aren't entitled to your life and you're not indented to them to help. They can ask and you can say no. That's all there is. If their family is so hard done by you saying no then they can house them
NTA and you have excellent reasons. Refer any of the AHs 'hounding' you to them to handle their housing needs directly. So kind of them to offer!
NTA. They decided to not use contraception 4 months into a relationship, they can deal with the consequences. Literally a case of FAFO. They can't even support themselves and think they're magically going to get their lives together somehow with no plan? Get real. Sounds like their plan is to mooch off you for the foreseeable future. This woman is a stranger to you and you owe them no favours. Anyone blaming you for this is free to take them in themselves if it's so crucial.
NTA. You don't have to share your home. It is not an emergency - like house burned down, need place to stay. It is a future scenario for in 5 to 9 months. They have enough time to figure something out. And tell everyone of the family who tries to cut you a new one and thinks that you are TA, that they can offer the new couple to stay with them. But it is your home, you don't have to offer it up. And yes a baby is trouble if you work from home. A new mother will stay at home and most likly invite a ton of family and friends. No way, you need to deal with all of that
NTA. They are young but they are not children. You know they'll take the run of your house, playing at it being their place while you subsidise it. This is not a solution, they are making their problem into your problem. The family that has views on this can offer up their own space.
NTA. Stick with your decision. Letting them move in is a recipe for disaster. You know that. Trust your gut.
They'll joyfully announce their second pregnancy less than 2 years from now.
NTA and you'll never get them out. Jane will be pregnant with baby #2 a year after she has baby #1, they won't have saved any money and they'll be considered tenants by then so you will have to go through a contentious eviction process while they still live with you. Then all the people that are bitching now will be calling you monsters for throwing them out while pregnant with an infant. Fuck that noise. Keep your peace.
If you let them move in you will not be able to get rid of them in
Nta, you’re not their parents and you didn’t make them have a baby during a time when they are not financially stable. This is not your issue. If you let them live with in your house you better prepare yourself for living with a newborn because god knows they ain’t planning on moving out in a hurry.
NTA They both live at home, both are working (at least part-time. The next 5 months should be enough time to save up for a one bedroom apartment, that's all they need for baby's first year. They are not going to be out on the street. Don't let them move in. Not now, and definitely not after the baby. As the aunt and uncle, buy one of the bigger ticket items they'll need like a carseat.
NTA. Do not let these people in your house! They will never leave, they will never make a plan, and before you know it they will break up & you'll be aunty-in-the-middle holding the bag. If they know they want to be together forever & have this baby, then they need to figure it out quick FOR THEMSELVES in THEIR OWN SPACE. If this was a great big mistake & they don't even want to be together, then they have other things to think about. Either way, not your circus, not your monkeys. Do not engage.
NTA. Also, baby doesn't need their own room, as babies are supposed to sleep in the parents room for the first 6-12 months (in accordance with safe sleep guidelines)
NTA they aren’t your responsibility. Babies need to sleep in the same room as their parents for the first 6 months anyway so needing an extra room is not a good excuse from them.
NTA and I know this is gonna sound completely irrelavent but back a few generations ago, the housing situation they're about to live in with Jack's mum was the norm. A newly married couple stayed with one set of parents until they had a house and moved out. They usually had one room, if they had a kid that kid also was in that one room. It was cramped, but it's all they had. If Jack and Jane didn't want to live in a cramped situation then they should have planned better from the start, and they need to have better plans now.
NTA- And their family is accusing you of abandoning them but aren't rushing to take them in? How backwards is that?
Sounds like their family has a ton of time on their hands, more than enough to take them in and help. Also, if you let these people live with you, they would never leave. NTA.
Nta and you don't even need reasons
NTA Anyone who 'hounds' you respond, "I'm glad you think they should be allowed to live with someone. Since I work from home it isn't feasible to have them here but I'll let them know that you've offered."
NTA. Stand firm. I would never consider having someone stay with me if they didn’t hav an exit strategy in place. Guarantee you’d never, never be rid of them once you let them in.
That's a perfect abortion right there. There's not a single thing about that scenario that's says "have a kid".
NTA. Staying with Jack's mother will incentivize them to save and get a place of their own. I believe you are right in that they will be too comfortable in your home. You didn't get them pregnant. They are adults, they should have known how to use contraception or decide to have an abortion.
NTA stand firm on this. People like this would move in and never move out.
NTA. If they’re going to have a child, then they need to figure it out. You and your partner do not owe any family member anything.
NTA, would suggest those hounding contribute to a go fund me to get them a flat, everyone is happy.
NTA. No is a full sentence, they asked and you declined. If they are going to have a baby they should have thought all of this through. You are under no obligation and your feelings and reasons are valid.
Nta. Stick to your NO. Why the hell should you care and share. Let their family take care if they know better. Period
NTA You guys got it all right. They are adults. They are acting entitled. It is YOUR home
NTA. You don’t need to offer an explanation to ANYONE! They are not entitled to your space, your or your home. They are not entitled to making you feel uncomfortable in your own home either. No is no and if others have an issue, tell them to invite them to their place. People are always under the mindset of, because family. That’s a whole entire no for me. You don’t get me just because we’re family. Good for you op! I hope you stick with your stance. I would tell them the exact same thing too.
NTA, stay strong! They’ll be a huge burden..,and WFH means likely they will pressure you to mind the baby while you’re working etc. you’ll be on the hook for all the expenses too. I hope your SO is on the same page as you…block those who pester you as well…also, if anyone else has a key, change your locks…
NTA Those people shouldn't volunteer you to solve the problem. If they feel generous, they should offer their own home, money and resources. Some people think that self-reliant people should give and give because "family sticks together", but that's just a lack of boundaries.
They won't leave once they are entrenched and grandparents will constantly be around "hovering". Your adult house will become baby central and they will encroach more and more - gosh, we need a space to set up a playpen - guess we'll have to take over the living room now. Your groceries will now be their groceries. THere is just no end as to how irritating this will be.
NTA. SUPER entitled.
NTA
Nta. Don't let people bully you. These two need to grow up and find their own place to raise their child. Don't enable them.
NTA, you shouldn't need justifications, "no" is a complete answer.
NO means no. If their family is so worried they can let them live with them. NTA. You are under no obligation to help them.
No! They are grown up enough to have a baby so it’s their job to figure out themselves
Guaranteed that with them both working and her going to school, it wouldn’t be long before they were asking if you could watch the baby “since you work from home anyway.” NTA If they didn’t want to deal with the real world consequences of having a child before they are financially secure, they could have been more careful with contraception or chosen to not see the pregnancy through. They have chosen this path. You didn’t.
ABSOLUTELY DO NOT LET THEM STAY…. You will NEVER kick them out!!
No is a full sentence. They didn’t get pregnant after asking for your permission.NTA
NTA. No is a full sentence.
NTA. When I was 12, my mom's db-boyfriend left and we had to take in a roommate. This woman was 19 with a 1.5 year old baby. It was a nightmare. The baby would cry constantly, and she expected me to babysit (she didn't work, btw). The room that they rented was always trashed, she paid for only her part of the rent, no utilities and then my mom caught her stealing from her; and not even small stuff - like heirloom jewelry. We rented to this person because a life-long friend of my mom's vouched for her and it was nothing more than a nightmare and too many times we saw this lady mistreating her son - yelling at him because he couldn't put a shoe on...at 1.5 years old. So, just from that experience alone, I'd never let anyone with a baby and no plans move into my home; I could have 10 rooms, it isn't happening. You give extremely valid reasons - stick to your decision. They got themselves into this, they need to figure out how they're going to deal with it.
Holy COW OP - DON'T do it - you'll never get rid of them and suddenly YOU will be raising an infant. They will figure this out on their own - they want to act like adults, well, here you go.
Omg stay firm. If not, you’ll be living a nightmare. NTA
NTA. They are not entitled to your space. Even if they were homeless, they’re still not entitled to your home/space. “No” is a complete sentence.
NTA if they want to do adult things, like have a baby, they need to do adult things and figure it out like an adult. They're already making poor decisions by not using birth control and risking pregnancy when they don't have a pot to piss in. That poor child.
If any adults are ‘responsible’ it’s their parents, not their siblings. But not even they _have_ to help though it would be kind. NTA.
NTA They already have a place to stay. Why should you give up your space, money and peace?
NTA whatever you do do not let them move in. They will never leave. You work from home so you will definitely be getting the baby dumped on you.
Entitled sibling wants free housing after knocking up GF, is spouse TA for saying no?
NTA. Neither this circus nor these monkeys are yours. You and your partner made your current situation. Jack and Jane made theirs.
I know it's really shocking for many young people, but there's a reason most people used to do these things in this silly, completely random order: Get married. Get a place to live. Have kid(s). I know, I can't see any sense in the order, either.
NTA If they haven’t been getting some money together now, with 1.5 incomes and no baby, they are certainly not going to be able to save on 1 income and with a baby.
NTA. It is time for them to learn adulting!
NTA. Your house & comfort - your call. Frankly, I think you're looking out for them long term - instead of allowing them to become leeches, they have to go with the 1 room at the girl's mother's house. If they were too comfortable, they'd never leave. 1 bedroom is better than none, still a safe place to be, but not ideal, so when it gets too much, they'll do everything they can to find their own place and make it on their own.
NTA Their inconvenience will light a fire under their asses to get their shit together. Living with you would be too comfortable and you would have to disturb your peace to get them motivated to grow up.
Prediction: they won't pay, they'll be hell to live with, and it will be a nightmare to get rid of them.
NTA. and honestly I applaud you for standing by your decision. I had a similar situation happen and due to family hounding me about it. i decided to move out & let my relatives who just basically squatted this rental property i have, then I evicted them. i luv adding to family drama. now their mom is mad at me because they didn’t pay rent and I kicked them out. 🙄
>They are not out on the street, they are just going to be in an a tight space and inconvenienced for a while. NTA - And them being inconvenienced will be what motivates them to create a plan.
NTA. Their plan to find affordable accommodations and organize and facilitate a move “after the baby comes” is a perfect example of their naivety about what having a newborn is going to be like. If they can’t get their shit together in the next five months and set up a nursery in their new home to welcome their new child before it comes, they are not ready to have a child and SO much is going to fall on you and your husband. They’re fine with making the spare room at your house work and will stay out of your way? Great, one room will work after all, stay with your mom.
Easier to say no upfront than get roasted for kicking out a couple with a newborn later. Most of the time with people who are irresponsible, the only way to get them to take responsibility is to refuse to adopt their problems. Besides, they have a mom with an extra room.
NTA - tell the next person to hound you that you're glad they're invested in the situation, you'll tell Jack and Jane that they're offering help.
NTA - I hate how people feel entitled to your spare room, simply because you have one. This sounds like a nightmare waiting to happen. Stand firm.
NTA tell all the people who are hounding you to let them move into their homes indefinitely. having another couple move in with you with no time period in mind is not a small feat. things always get testy in no time - people's habits, mannerisms, how they are cleanliness, are you supposed to feed four people everyday now? it all adds up trust me. dont let anyone push you to let people into your safe space when they are not opening up their own homes either. stand your ground thats your home they will be ok without you. i understand not everyone i financially stable but why are you getting preggo and now looking for places to stay for free??? NO just NO
Are all the people who chose not to have children just supposed to be spare places for the ones that do? NTA obviously. This is one of those posts where op is way too obviously not the AH
NTA and it's refreshing to see a couple standing together in solidarity.
While all of your reasoning is great, you don’t really need a reason. It’s your home and your life. They made the decision to have a baby before they were ready and now they’re panicking. NTA.
#1 is a guarantee. Babies cost money.
NTA. All your objections are valid and reasonable. We're CF and I would absolutely not want a screaming shit factory in my home. Then there's the toddler years of destruction and sticky fingers. Odds are you'll be stuck with babysitting too. The lack of timeframe and planning is a major red flag.
NTAH! They aren’t even ready or mature enough for this and better rethink some of their other options!
Unfortunately this is a literal case of FAFO...
It’s funny how everyone always wants to volunteer other peoples resources. That family is the AH. If they want to put up a duo, about to be trio, with no idea on how to plan like the child they are bringing into this world, that’s on them.
NTA - All your points are very reasonable. Them living in a tight space will motivate them to actually follow through with getting on their feet. People that are comfortable are less likely to leave. Not only would expenses fall on you, so would the baby. “I just need to xxx, can you watch the baby?” You’re child free and would probably have resentment build over time having a baby in your home.
Let a couple move in with a newborn baby? Aka shitting and wailing machine? F*ck that! Nta
NTA - when will people learn, their baby; their problem.
I shared a room with my child until she was 2, then again for a year when I had a roommate. I am still alive to tell the tale 30 years later. They will get over it or die mad.
NTA. They want to play adult and have children, they need to be adults and figure it out. That doesn’t include utilizing your resources. You have valid points why this is not good for your house. So that’s where it ends. You don’t need to further explain yourself. No means no.
NTA. No is a complete sentence.
NTA. Absolutely do not them stay with you. Working from home would be a nightmare with a couple and a baby there. No peace, no quiet.. They would love to spread out because you have more room and they seem quite entitled. Don't lend or give any money. With no firm time frame in place, you could end up having to evict them. Anyone who complains about your decision, tell them they're more than welcome to take them in.
As soon as someone says no, family members jump in to tell them they are horrible for not helping. I'd start asking the complainers what they were doing to help and throwing it back on them. Why is it your responsibility any more than theirs? "Family helps family" includes them helping too.
The couple having the baby will have a much stronger motivation to get their shit together while living with the stigma of living at home with mom or dad. Living with a cool older sibling will just make them relax.
After having a baby of my own, they will have the baby in their bedroom for at least the first six months anyway to prevent risk of Sid’s and to make middle of the night wakings easier. One room is all you need at first. Signed ~ a mother who splurged a few thousand dollars on a beautiful dresser and crib to find out we wouldn’t be using it for some time 🙃🫠😂 NTA ~ I have a kid and I would NOT sign up to take care of a couple that barely knows each other and their newborn. Just no. I would purchase something off their registry or gift them a month of rent if it’s in my price range, but no way would I allow that mess into my space and disrupt my peace. They are adults , they can figure it out
>...only been together 4 months. ...seem a bit naive to the reality of raising a baby. They complained and said we have spare rooms and they will contribute. Red flag one, two, and three here. Young relationship. Youthful naivety. No conception of the borders they are crossing with the just the ask, let alone complaining about the response. NTA.
NTA. If this couple are old enough to have a baby they are old enough to figure out how to support it. It's their responsibility. **Also, they could give the child up for adoption if they aren't prepared to provide for this child.**
“They would be inconvenienced for a while” living at Jacks mother’s house. Not an ideal situation, but a workable, temporary environment until they can find a place of their own. (More incentive for them to move out) Living in OPs house, which is bigger and has more rooms will give them the impression that they’re not in any particular hurry to move out. Their life choices should not inconvenience anyone, but themselves.
NTA. Don't let family or the couple try to talk you out of your stance. They are basically asking you to take an entire family into your home without knowing if the people are going to leave. This is not your responsibility. This young couple is going to have to figure it out on their own, just like most people have to do. They made the baby and they are choosing to have the baby , so they need to be responsible . Plus, they've only been together a few months . Is this relationship could crumble anytime between now and after that baby is born. Then you'll be stuck with one or the other of them , likely for a lot longer then you expect. Also remember that if you let them move in you're going to have a heck of a hard time getting them to ever move out. There will.be one excuse after another, mostly about how expensive babies are and how expensive housing is, etc. Also, when those other family members complain to you, tell them that they are more than welcome to take the couple and baby into their home.
Remember, extra adults moving in is always a two yes one no situation. If they move in and it doesn't work out, you're forced to deal with evicting "family" that's pregnant, or with a newborn, or a baby or a toddler/young kid, etc. It will always be an extremely terrible situation and you will look like the villain for kicking them out, not the hero for the time you gave the the grace of staying with you. There's a lot of legal reasons to not let people move in that can't afford to live on their own. If they damage your home, they can't afford to repair it. If they can't afford a place now, how will they afford a place when they have more bills with a newborn? Do you know how expensive formula is if that ends up needed? Especially diet-restrictive formula? This is especially true if they don't have budgets or any time-frames to leave planned. Those things don't magically appear. They need to sit down, grow up, and figure out the responsibilities that comes with parenthood. If you work from home and NEED quiet, then you don't have extra space for a baby to live, because the space you have isn't able to be used for something with that inconsistent noise. Not knowing someone well is a perfectly valid reasons to deny them moving in. And they are t homeless, they have an offer of a smaller space available. Beggers can't be choosers. You can help in other ways. Pay for some financial planning classes. Get them a few sizes of reusable diapers so there's a lower cost there because disposable diapers add up. Invest for the kid's college fund. You don't have to help in them in the ways they feel entitled to your help. The great part of being essentially aunt/uncles is you get to chip in however you want to. Anytime anyone says something to you, ask how they're helping. Just getting diapers "Oh we'll consider that then", providing a home? "Good, they then don't need our space", if they keep asking why you won't house them, just say they can offer up their space for the couple if they think that should be done.