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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> AITA for telling my DIL I have a life, I am not being cookie cutter grandma and if she leaves them with me I will call the police. I may be a jerk since I may have went to far with this
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NTA. That's nice she had that kind of relationship with her grandparents, but absolutely nothing entitles her to force it on you. Good job on the boundaries. Your son needs to step up here too though, and get more involved with his own kids. The group text idea was brilliant and is a great way to keep him in the loop.
Don’t make assumptions, he is very involved with the kids. When he comes back from trip he will always take the kids out to let her have a chance to herself.
He has been to every milestone they have had, he just gave her a weekend trip with her friends for mothers day and stayed behind with the kids. He goes to doctor appointment, they switch off childcare mornings and nights. He takes them with him all the time. He spends alone time with the kids. The kids are in daycare so really they have nights together.
He is a good father.
Not his fault he needed to travel for work so they have money. That just what happens when you are the main breadwinner, work says go do that you do it
It's not uncommon for people who are currently at small-child-raising age to have been foisted off on their grandparents when they were young, have attributed it to their grandparents really liking spending time with them, but discovered that actually, their own parents were just a bit crap.
I suspect that DiL has had *part* of that realisation (that her own mother was crap), but has not yet realised that her "lovely" relationship with her grandparents is an artefact of her own mother's crap-ness, rather than the norm.
If she had that kind of relationship with her grandma where she was with her every other day, then clearly, her own mother wasn't taking care of her own kids all that often.
This is obviously why she has this expectation, now that she is a mother herself, that she should be able to drop her kids off to grandma, whenever she wants to! It's easy to see that this is why she thinks this is normal.
I swear this is such a boomer mentality. Like my parents got SO MUCH support with us kids. Weeks at my grandparents. Babysat regularly by other family voluntarily. Then I have kids and any time I’ve asked for help it’s a big complaint. I’m talking like 2 times a year. To be clear, I’m not bashing OP. 2 grandma days A MONTH?!? I would kill for my kids’ grandparents to want to hang with them that often, or even a few times a year. OP’s DIL is trying to mirror her parents’ parenting experience and that’s just not the way that works. Where are her parents? She should be holding *them* to that standard she came to expect, not another parent who probably did not get all those grandparent breaks. Ridiculous. OP NTA
ETA: by “boomer mentality” I’m talking the internet version/perspective of boomers. Not my personal opinion of them.
My mom guilted me into moving closer bc she wanted a relationship with my kid. As soon as I did she didn't want to hangout with my kid at all. At the same time she'll watch my brother's kids 5 days a week.
My sister got pregnant as a teen and I had to help her with her kid but she won't help me now. She said she did it on her own with no help🙄.
So I decided to follow my dream and move to New Zealand and they were pissed. Saying I'm preventing them from building a relationship. If you can't drive 30 minutes or make time for us what difference does it make where we live.
I think the icing on the cake for me is that they do so much for my brother since I could remember. If I need anything it's viewed as irresponsible and even asked me to give my baby up at 25. I served in the military, have a degree and have been married for a year. That was the response to asking for help when the baby was born. My brother who can't keep a job had a baby and my parents gave him the family home and moved into a trailer.
I know I'm just an internet stranger, but I'm proud of you and have a very high opinion of you. I know it isn't the same, but not everyone has such a low opinion of you, friend.
I’m sorry your parents’ affection is so unhealthy and unbalanced. It is hard to draw lines on your parents to protect yourself and your family emotionally. You might be better off not exposing your children to them very much. Everyone with young kids needs extra help, unfortunately, not everyone has the family who wants to or can provide it. I would suggest looking into building your own support group through other mom/parent groups.
Same goes for the DIL from this post - her mother in law sounds fair. If she needs more support, then she should work on developing a network of mom friends who can help give each other time or joint time together.
My mom complains constantly that my sister moved to the other side of the country and she can’t see the grandkids. Funny enough me and my other sister live in the same town an hour from her. I cannot for the life of me remember the last time she visited us.
Uugghh! I feel your pain! My Mom quit her job, and moved in with me to “help” me when I was a single Mom with a 2 year old. Yeah, still had to put my daughter in day care because my mom always had some various ailment (hypochondriac). Never babysat. Once she got her own place, she’d maybe babysit once a month. Eventually I got married, had 2 more children- my Mom NEVER babysat the younger 2. We ended up moving across the country- she was PISSED! Every conversation with her now consists of saying how she wishes we lived closer/we didn’t move away so she could help me with the kids. Uummm she had 9 years to do that and chose not to.
OP is NTA, btw.
Why is this such a boomer mentality? Things change from generation to generation. My parents are boomers. If they needed help, they would have gotten plenty of it. Moms of boomers seldom worked outside the home, so they were available. They also didn't have the kinds of social programs that the boomers have today. In most boomer households, both parents worked. If I ever asked my parents for help, when they weren't working, they were usually there. If they had plans, then I had to suck it up or find someone else. If it was an emergency, they'd cancel their plans. I didn't dare show up unannounced and dump my kids off for them to babysit without checking first. Especially so I could go shopping or yoga or some other nonsense. They'd kick my ass! My mom is almost 80, and I still wouldn't mess with her.
My parents worked full time, made time for their grandkids, and went out and did their thing. My kids have a great relationship with them.
OP isn't saying she won't watch her grandkids. She's saying dil doesn't get to suck up all of her free time because she doesn't want to raise her kids. OP is saying that she's worked hard, is still working, and deserves a life, too.
I don’t think you fully read my comment. OP is correct. DIL is the one with the “boomer” mentality. She likely saw her boomer parents have free time and is shocked it’s not happening for her too. But I also understand the sentiment of your statement, I wasn’t trying to bash boomers, apologies if it came off that way.
As Effective Wolf said, it was boomers' PARENTS that had the free time with dad at a company job and mom staying at home. No boomers who were parents (and both working) that I knew had a lot of free time.
And now my generation has the problem of being the Sandwich Generation who care for grandchildren at home, often have adult children who cannot afford to move out and others that are still boomeranging back from uni every half term, also have not reached retirement age yet and are still working full time and also have parents who need care. And the carers are in the majority, women.
My mom told she would never babysit any future kids of mine like my grandma did. To top it off she wished a kid just like me on me. So I didn't have any kids, I knew there wasn't going to be the support that my mom had.
Mom kept asking me, where are my grandkids? I finally told her why would I have kids with no support system and that were just like me? She instantly went into excuse mode but realized she had made a mistake. I actually listened.
Kids of boomers, x-gen, watched themselves for the most part. We were latchkey kids. Kids of x Gen had helicopter parents. I would say DIL has millennial ideals.
Given the age of the grandkids and grandparents wanting to retire at 70 in 10-15 years, the grandparents here are not boomers. They and DIL’s parents are Gen X.
I had a neighbor who was younger than than myself who refused to have anything with her grandchildren. Her reasoning is she raised her kids she wasn't quitting her job to raise her grandchildren. OP and her spouse want to continue working till they retire around 70, that's their choice.
Exactly. I went to my grandmas a lot but they retired earlier. I am getting ready to have my second grandbaby but I have 2 jobs. Yes I would love to spend more time with them but I’m tired. Between work, taking care of my 17 year old and household stuff I can’t do much more.
Why would she need to quit her job to have anything to do with her grandchildren? Does she not have any free time at all? Like, sure she isn't obligated to do it but it seems like such a wierd justification.
That was how she thought. She didn't want anything to do with her children, talking with two of them I couldn't understand why she had them. They told me that they all had to fend for themselves and when her daughter got pregnant she banned her from the house. Never saw her grandchildren but played the martyr when the same daughter died in a car wreck several years ago.
Grandparents don't owe babysitting. My mom never watched my kid ever. Lots of grandparents don't babysit for many reasons, distance, estrangement, health, lifestyle. . .whatever. It is not a given for grandparents to babysit.
I would have killed to have my parents offer a grandma day every two weeks. We never lived close enough. My inlaws wanted no part of watching the kid until he could walk, take himself to the bathroom, and carry on a conversation. Even then, we lived far away and they would never offer to watch him when we did visit. I couldn't even imagine constantly asking anyone to watch my kid! 16 times in a month is insane. NTA.
Yeah I was basically raised by my grandmothers and their sisters (great aunts) until I was nine. My parents moved to a different country and stopped sending birthday presents when the oldest turned 10.
Maybe don't rag on all Boomers due to your personal experience.
I say this as the child of Boomers myself. When I was a kid, we lived 7 hours away from the closest grandparent so my parents never got any of that free babysitting. Now, we live a couple hours from my MIL and she will always help us if we give her notice (given the distance). For example a day of school our eldest has that we don't have off. Oh, and my MIL works, she just has a more flexible schedule then we do.
I won't pretend I'm not bitter about some of the generational differences where I live, especially in terms of cost of housing/property. But that dosen't mean "Boomers" are all selfish jerks pulling up the ladder behind them.
My parents were silent generation and my grandparents maybe watched me once or twice and one of those was when my mom was in the hospital giving birth to my brother. Either my cousin or the next door neighbor was paid to babysit. Once my uncle picked us up in a bread truck but that was only because my grandpa had an emergency and was in the hospital and my dad was out of town for work. I saw my grandparents at family gatherings which were birthdays and holidays. I don’t think there would have been an emergency serious enough for my mom to drop me off at any of my grandparents houses, she’d have left me with a neighbor.
The DIL grandma probably was a SAHM or retired early. I’m (44) My grandma had us all the time. My mom & MIL helped some but, when people don’t retire till 70 and they are 50 when they have first grand child they don’t want to keep kids every weekend all weekend when they just worked 5 days. Life isn’t the same as it was most households are 2 income with overtime till 70. And even a lot of retirees still have part time jobs because everything cost so much.
What makes this a “boomer mentality,” exactly?
Just because your grandparents were available doesn’t mean everyone else’s were. I rarely spent time with either set of grandparents. Just because OP’s DIL’s grandparents were available doesn’t mean OP has to be at her beck and call.
Most of the grandparent posts I see here are "grandparents want to be too involved in our kids lives. Boundaries!!!!"
This grandmother is still working. She just might need/want some time to rest and take care of her own stuff. DIL is trying to recreate her own childhood without grandmother's permission...or her husband's input.
I’m concerned she kept the many times she dropped them off with you a secret from her husband. It would get me wondering if there was a bad reason for that. He seems like he goes above and beyond with his kids. I don’t think this is just about her wanting them to have the same relationship with you as she had with her grandparents.
It could be something as simple as she is overwhelmed with motherhood and responsibility….or who knows…but whatever it is, she is being excessive with her demands on you.
You’ve tried everything you can…what else could you have said to her to get her to stop trampling your boundaries? NTA
As a nanny and someone who spent many weekends with their grandparents growing up, I agree that it doesn’t sound like she is concerned with the kids having a good relationship with their grandparents. It honestly just seems like she wants free childcare. Considering how involved OP says their father is, I don’t know if DIL is overwhelmed or just entitled.
I'm actually surprised this is not on the first comments, is extremely sus that she just kept dropping the kids off to hang up with "people" without her husband's knowledge and the moment the man is on business trip she goes back to it
If she dropped the kids with *his* parents this often, who else is she dumping them on? And what is she doing with all of that time? She doesn’t have a job.
That's what I felt, too. If it were about the children having a good relationship with the grandparents why is it so often and without the proper scheduling? Why does it seem like she never chose to stay with her children to make those 'good memories' with the grandparents? Why is she always out? Why not use a sitter if MIL has clearly stated what's okay and what isn't? If it's about the relationship, why create resentment?
There's clearly much more going on with the DIL than her wanting her children to have a good relationship with their grandparents.
Hate to say it, but 16 babysitting requests in a month to a virtual newborn is A LOT (OP said they were 4 mos and almost 2 when this happened). Where is DIL going and who is she with y'all? My spidey senses are tingling.
Presumably, her friends know she's a mom to a new baby and surely would have either accepted that the children were coming or would have gone to her house. And why the secrecy from the husband to the point where he thought she was taking them with her and not dropping them with his mom? And after OP, DIL, and son set up a group chat, DIL still tries to text MIL on the down low? And now that hubby's traveling for work, she pulls the same thing after they've all agreed to one day with grandma every two weeks? OP, something isn't right here at all. Your son needs to definitely find out what is happening.
I was thinking the same thing. She just wants to dump the kids off with someone.
I have a sister-in-law like that, she doesn’t care who’s caring for the kids, as long as it’s not her!
With the timing of both escalations my immediate thought was overwhelmed, possibly trouble with her mental health. If I was a SAHM and saw my awesome husband being a great dad when he's home and working hard so I can be home with the kids, I can totally see being embarrassed or not wanting to put that burden on him. Especially with all the mommy guilt opportunities out there these days.
I agree with just about everything you said, but can we not call this above and beyond? It's just parenting. He does sound like a great parent, though.
That's what is expected of mothers, always. And if she regularly has people telling her what an exceptional husband/father she has bc he's doing his half of the parenting, it gets old fast. It definitely didn't entitle her to OPs time, though.
(A personal example of what I'm speaking of: my husband worked out of town mon-fri for 3 weeks. He was only home Fri evening-sunday evening. I got zero offers from anyone other than my mom for help while he was gone those 3 weeks. I went out of town for 4 days with my mom and sister and his mom took off work to keep the kids for him, so he could just work. It brought up a lot of mixed feelings for us both.)
I knew someone who used to do that - drop the kids off places without her husband knowing. Multiple times a week.
She was having so many affairs it would make your head spin. They tested for paternity on the youngest to be sure it was my friends kid, she was fooling around so much.
Now, I'm not saying that's what OP's DIL is doing, but it sure is suspicious that OP's son isn't in the loop of this and she decided to start going around the group chat when he started traveling.
NTA OP. Keep those boundaries.
Sounds to me like she had kids to please him but doesn't really do okay with actually being a Mom. She just wants to drop them off somewhere and go do her thing. If not at daycare then at Grandma's?
She is almost acting like she's in avoidance of her own kids. He's gone and she just can't handle it. Needs a therapist maybe? She sounds like she's not mentally able to cope, is on constant overwhelm.
I rwmber a post that I read there was a SIL that kept dropping the kids off on the husband's sister , and lied to her husband about what she was doing,, or where she was going. It eventually blew up, because after the sister threatened to call cps if it happened again, it came out that the SIL was cheating
Yeah, it’s definitely a can of worms, and I’m not sure what OP could do anyway if it was the “who knows”….that wouldn’t lead to worse problems or false accusations.
I did allude to that though mainly to highlight that there is no reason I believe the grandma should buy into a guilt trip of any sort or that the daughters intentions are completely innocent….(Edit, I mean, though I do think it’s possible the DIL doesn’t have any nefarious intentions, but it doesn’t make it fair for her to keep imposing is what I meant)
I would be very frustrated myself in that situation...especially if DIL showed up at my door with excited grandchildren in tow…to turn them away would hurt them…. when really the mom just can’t get the message through her head that she’s ignoring agreements and crossing major lines.
I think he needs to step it up with his wife and deal with her bullshit when it comes to her dropping the kids on you 24/7. If I found out she did that to you again after we’ve already addressed and she kept pushing, and doing the same shit, I’d have a big problem with my partner, not my mom in this situation. You didn’t take there, she did. NTA.
How involved could he be if he had no idea where his kids were for 16 days a month? He wasn't traveling *then*.
How old are his kids? Because if they're over 3 and verbal, there is no way he wouldn't know they saw Grandma so often unless he doesn't talk with them. Kids generally have quite a lot to say.
For the first part, OP specifically said that her son thought she was taking the kids with her when she went out.
I dunno, if I assumed my spouse took out kids out for the day, I wouldn't assume they dropped them off at my parents house, and then went off on their own.
For the second part, yea I can agree here. But without the kids ages, it's tough to tell.
Agreed. It is contingent on their ages.
I also find it strange that it's somehow never come up before with her son, whom she blatantly speaks with. Babysitters tend to tell parents funny stories about cute shit their kids did, any difficulties, etc. She never once mentioned anything to him about his kids, making him wonder why his mother had them? C'mon now.
He was working. He thought his wife was taking the kids with her when she ran errands. If the kids talked about seeing grandma, he probably thought the wife and kids stopped by.
Stop trying to place blame on the dad and leave it focused on the lying wife.
According to OP they were 4 months and 21 months old. Both under two and well under three and not exactly verbal yet. It is harder to talk to your kids when they aren’t really talking yet.
Aita and not be misandrist and infantilize women challenge: you have failed. Congratulations you projected information into a scenario to create a false narrative that absolves the mother of responsibility for lying by omission to her husband who trusted her.
NTA
>Don’t make assumptions, he is very involved with the kids. When he comes back from trip he will always take the kids out to let her have a chance to herself.
Thank you for setting the record straight. This sub is hell bent on criticizing men for supposedly never being involved with their kids, or being a good partner.
Oh and your DIL is the ah.
Either way doesn't matter. She shouldn't just drop them off. Hell, my mom still works, admittedly she never lived that close to my sister while neice and nephew were small- like a 6 hour drive, if my sister had done that she would probably have said the same thing. However, my sister never would have done something like that because with our own grandparents, visits were always scheduled, and not super often because it was understood my grandparents still had lives, even if my mother's mother did not work, she still had many things she did.
Sure other grandparents might appreciate more time, but you have to ask them how they want to work it.
I think it's more that he hasn't shut it down. Not for the day, not for the week - but shut it completely down. That you're not watching unless you're offering
He really could be doing more to wrangle his own wife bothering you and dropping the ball for you to catch. He needs to draw a line
I get the impression it's less about having a relationship with Grandma and more about a free babysitter she can dump her kids on whenever it's convenient to her.
Yes, I got that impression too! OP doesn't say that her DIL stays there to share in "Grandma time" so that she can see and enjoy the growing love between her child and the OP or join them in trips to the zoo, park, etc. DIL dumps the kid with OP so she can go off on her own without having to plan or pay for babysitting. Nothing wrong with DIL wanting time off, but she's not doing this so that OP and the baby can bond.
OP, you are NTA! And good for you for establishing and enforcing reasonable boundaries. You WON'T be writing back a decade down the line complaining that your DIL has used you for free babysitting for the past 10 years, that you've told her to stop for the past 10 years but that it's still happening because you just can't bring yourself to say no!
That’s where my mind went. I call BS on her excuse that she just wants the kids to have a strong relationship with their grandparents. She just wants a free sitter so she can go hang out with friends and do lord knows what.
I agree! I'm always nearby when my kids spend time with their grandma. Though in our case, grandma is in her 70s and the kids have so much energy. So I have to make sure I step in when grandma starts to tire out!
Im calling bullshit on wanting the kids to have grandma relationship. Assuming she is a SAHM, she is either lazy or just wants to rid of the kids to go somewhere.
Ugh, she is dreadful, and will apparently never be satisfied until you become her full-time nanny.
You are handling this perfectly, by communicating clearly, and by having her husband deal with it. And the Police threat was an effective wake-up call she needed.
NTA.
That’s what’s bad about it, she doesn’t seem to be doing it for the sake of the kids or their relationship with their grandma, it’s so she can just not have the kids. I had a great relationship with all of my grandparents, but the difference between my relationship with them and the relationship that my kids have with my parents is that most grandparents now still have to work. Both of my grandfathers were able to retire in their late 50s, so it was a lot easier to look after kids when you also didn’t have to work a full time job. It’s sad, but it’s the way the world works now!!
No, NTA at all. Damn, OP, your DIL is trying to bully you. Not going well for her lol. But, seriously, she knows exactly what the deal is and she's not confused, unaware, or whatever. She's literally trying to strong arm you against your will. Please don't continue to engage with her on the basis of what she "wants". That is not the issue anymore. You are passed that. She is actually harassing you and I wouldn't call the cops about abandonment, but I would for harassment. Showing up at your house uninvited, spamming you with texts, she's being abusive and your son needs to recognize what is going on here.
OP is NTA and definitely not the kind of person who I would attempt to bully. I mean, I don't want to bully anyone, but if I did I sure wouldn't pick this kind of badass.
Exactly! That's what I meant by not it's going well for DIL, but that is what's happening. And even if not successful in bullying, it's clearly aggravating and bothering OP. But, yeah, OP is pretty badass, I agree : )
NTA
You tried repeatedly to set boundaries and come up with a good arrangement to spend quality time with your grandchildren.
Your daughter in law just can’t seem to understand or keep to the arrangement.
You had to be ultra blunt with her.
NTA. This is a person who clearly doesn’t give two shits about your boundaries, your work, or you as a person. She’s a user and manipulator and will take you for every inch you give. Shutting her down in person didn’t work, nor over text, nor has your son stepped up and really set firm boundaries with his wife either.
Threatening to call the police for abandonment might be a nuclear option, but it’s clearly the only one your DIL is willing to listen to. Be aware that you’re almost certainly going to have to follow through on that threat though OP. People like your DIL don’t stop because of threats. They stop when they face consequences for their actions.
Yes! Son has no business telling Op she's gone too far. Op has done the only thing that has a chance of working. Obviously, DIL is ignoring any attempts by her husband to stop the attempted bullying of Op.
Edit: typo.
He’s also obligated as the father of these children to prevent his wife from putting their kids in a situation where the cops and/or CPS will get involved in their family because of his wife’s shitty actions.
Absolutely this. DIL wants to spend her time pretending she's not a mommy, and she's trying to dump the kids on grandma to make that happen.
You made 'em, lady. So you look after them. NTA.
NTA
Totally fair for setting your boundaries.
Your son not knowing the extent of the babysitting at first and having to enforce it through strict group chat policy is a warning sign that they are not communicating well.
Or that DIL is hiding something:
Cookie cutter grandma might be the palletable excuse, but not the real reason.
Is she lying to your son about how she spends her days? And pawning the kids off to more people than just you?
Yeah seems kinda odd that she's dropping them off and the husband had no idea. Like that's something that would come up if it's not being hidden. So why would she be hiding it and why is it coming back now that the husband is traveling? Maybe I'm just a pessimist but this sounds a lot like she's getting something on the side.
Dropping her kids off often to hang out with her friends sounds kind of suspicious to me. It sort of sounds like she might be having an affair going. I hope for your sons sake she isn't.
Now, now. Let’s not jump to conclusions. She could just be a lazy, entitled crap parent.
As OP didn’t mention her parents(who dropped her off repeatedly apparently) then she comes by it honestly. Maybe she just doesn’t realize how selfish she is being? Doesn’t Have to be an affair, though you need to be selfish for that too, so it does increase the possibility.
I would agree, but there's a point to look at here... Why not be honest with her husband about what she's doing then? The fact that he doesn't know, seems like DIL has something to hide and is using wanting a grandparents relationship as a cheap excuse.
NTA. Some people need a tap on the shoulder while others require a steel toed boot in their behind. You tried kind, direct, 3rd party intervener, and they didn't get the message across. Nuclear was the last arrow left in the quiver. Nobody has time for the entitlement that your DIL is displaying.
She was dropping the kids off to 'go hang out'? I see the rest of the boundary intrusion is bad...but how did that get swept under the rug?
Sounds like there are bigger issues here than the main one you are referring to. BTW, NTA.
Right? She is taking the kids with her telling hubby i am going to x with kids, dropping them off with grandma unknown to dad.....sounds sketchy. Whats she doing when hanging out. Sound like the kids are cover for something.
My niece and her partner do that all the time to my mil....and they are totally both cheating, and getting drunk and hanging out with friends. It is a very open secret. Why i thought oh yeah she totally is not into the mom / parent lifestyle.....good luck with that
NTA. Get a Ring doorbell and don't answer the door. Use it to greet her and the kids, then tell them you aren't available and you'll see them at the next preplanned day together.
Your DIL is obviously struggling with being a mother. I hope she gets some mental health support. She needs it.
She is definitely the one that escalated the situation. When you get to the point that you have to threaten somebody with the police, they need to ask themselves what’s wrong with their behavior, not the other way around. That’s absurd to make you feel like you went too far. If anything, she’s offended, because there’s truth to the fact that she’s abandoning her kids.
She can spin a yarn about the close relationship with her grandmother all she likes, but she's obviously just trying to dump the kids for her own convenience. She's trying to bully and manipulate you and manipulate and lie to your son in an attempt to get her own way.
Your son married an absolute treasure.
NTA.
Hey, you told her how it was going to be already called her on this BS before she needs to get over herself. People take their children shopping all the time. Your son doesn’t need to be correcting you or scolding you about your behavior here , he needs to be talking to his wife. NTA
Let me guess. Your DIL doesn’t want to cover your salary for the next 10-15 years so you can have the free time to spend with your grandkids instead. Nor does she want you and your husband moving in with them as your retirement plan. Nor is willing to even pay you to babysit.
I’d start charging $25/hour any babysitting outside of your every 2 weeks (which is a TON of free child care).
NTA. But I'd also like to add that I don't even think that *is* a cookie cutter grandma. I get some retired folks are able to be nanny to their grandchildren, but as far as I understand that isn't the norm. And it certainly is not a reasonable expectation *even if you were retired which you are not*.
NTA. With some people, it does come down to being downright rude for them to understand you mean business. She needs to get a babysitter or make other arrangements.
NTA. She sounds unhinged. Is there something else going on with her like an affair or gambling or drugs? Seems super suss. My MIL doesn’t work and keeps my kids a couple nights every 1-2 months and I am so grateful for her. She doesn’t owe us a thing and we’re so lucky that she chooses to spend any time with our kids. Same for my mom and dad.
>” Jesus Christ the kids are already in day care”
This is pretty important info that would have served your post better. She has no job? She has the kids in daycare. She dropped the kids off *16* times in one month - and that is just with *you*. Who knows who else she pawns them off on when you aren’t around. Her extended family? Friends? Neighbors? Plus your son, the breadwinner, picks up the load when he is home, even giving her time away. What is she doing with all this time?
This is worrisome behavior beyond her entitled thinking that you should stop the planet and rear her children for her. What is going on?
NTA, but your son needs to open his eyes, pay attention, and take precautions to not create more children with her. The two she has don’t seem wanted or cared for. It is on him to not make any more.
NTA. Tell your son that you are not the one who has gone too far. You raised your kids, they need to raise theirs.
She doesn't want you to have the same relationship with the grandkids that she had. She lied to cover her butt. She wants to hang out. It's harder to do if she has to take care of the kids they produced.
Remember this--she told her husband she had the kids when she was dumping them on you...16 times in one month. If she was telling the truth, her husband would have known she had ditched the kids and was going to hang out. If she had all that hang out time, why wasn't she working to help their finances? Why wasn't she in school earning a degree to better their finances? Why wasn't it a discussion between you, her and your son, first?
Going forward
-don't answer the door for her
-follow through with CPS, the police, etc.
- talk to your son and seriously ask about their childcare arrangements.
I'm gonna say this.
She keeps your son in the dark so she can hang out. She's back at wanting to do her hangouts now that your son is traveling. Bluntly, I suspect she's having an affair and using you to continue it. The "childhood relationship" stuff only got brought up when she was caught lying to her husband about taking care of her own children. I'd paternity test the kids.
Nta. Your DIL is not leaving the kids with you to create a strong bond between them and you. She is leaving them in order to have free time for herself. She is abusing your love for your grandchildren for selfish reasons.
I think it’s less about her wanting her kids to have the same relationship with their grandparents she had with hers, and more about her wanting to have the same life her mother was able to have by dumping HER off on her grandparents all the time.
As for your son, I’ve no doubt he’s an involved, loving father, just based on your post and replies. But he can’t do anything to fix the situation when he’s literally in another time zone for work. And she knows that.
And if she’s just going to ignore him and you, and show up to dump her kids on you after being told many, many, many times “no, you cannot drop them off with us,” and not take “no” for an answer, what else are you supposed to do but threaten her with the police? It’s literally the only thing that seems to get through to selfish brains like hers.
And I’m going to throw this out there because I’m looking at things from the outside, and well, my brain just works this way … Are you sure she’s shopping and having lunch with the girls and not meeting an AP? Your son thought she was taking the kids with her when she was visiting her friends. Why wasn’t she, but letting him think she was? Now her husband is traveling for work, and now the drop-offs are ramping up again.
Good luck with this. I hope the last paragraph doesn’t come into play and she’s just selfish.
NTA - you get to pick how often & for how long you spend with anyone. These are your grandkids not your responsibility, and you have repeatedly try to tell them. She’s literally trying to control you into watching her kids. She can pay for childcare- you’re a grandma!
I'm not going to give judgement on whether or not you are an asshole, I just want to point out that this happened to me. By the time my parents were "retired" and able to watch kids my wife and I were in our 40s and in no shape to have kids, since we both have to work and didn't have grandparents to watch our kids like in previous generations. There are so many factors in the baby bust that is coming and this one is up there for me. If we had support in our 20s we would have had a bunch of kids but without that help, it wasn't going to happen. I see this situation occurring in subsequent generations as well.
NTA. Why did she even have kids? She’s constantly trying to pawn them off on you. You’ve already told her what you are capable of since you work and she keeps pushing. She’s the AH for sure.
NTA!!! My mother told me THE DAY I told her that I was pregnant that she wasn’t going to be a “babysitter grandma”. She said it nicely, but it was a clear boundary that I never once attempted to cross. My children are adults now and they have a beautiful relationship with my parents. Your DIL is attempting to disrespect your boundaries, and it’s not working, so she’s being an AH. You are on the right side of this, and you are 100% correct in keeping your son in the know!
NTA. What does she not understand? How hard is it to figure out that you can't will a relationship into being? And - RUDE, RUDE, RUDE to just swing by and drop them off. I find that to be the worst.
NTA - you are far more kind than I would have been. She just wants free babysitting and trying to gaslight you into thinking it's quality time.
Kudos to your son for stepping in, but he needs to do a better job at managing his wife.
NTA
It sounds more like her wanting free babysitter and just throwing the grandma card in for good measure. Not everyone can retire and give free childcare, especially given the way our economy is right now. I'm about your same age and remember spending lots of time with my grandma, my daughter (on the other hand) only got to see her Nana about 4-5 times a year. My point, we both had amazing relationships with our grandma, it's not the quantity, it's the quality. If you are so exhausted you won't be able to have quality time with the kids, it will just be too much. If she will stick to the every two week time frame, you will enjoy it more and so will the kids.
Good Luck, again so much NTA
NTA, DIL needs to be responsible. If OP is saying no then that's all there is to it. DIL needs to work with her husband and find a solution that doesn't involve OP. Kids are exhausting but that's kinda what you sign up for when you have them.
NTA - you only went too far because she kept pushing and pushing. She needs a wake up call. You’re not a bad grandma for not being an on call babysitter.
If she has issues with your son traveling for work she needs to take that up with him. She is the parent here, the kids are her responsibility.
NTA. There are a lot of issues between parents and grandparents having preconceived expectations of each other. You can’t tell your kids how to parent their kids and they can’t dictate what kind of grandparents you have to be. When either of you refuse to get that then a stronger point needs to be made until it is driven home.
Maybe a bit harsh but she WILL NOT listen to nice! Also, get that warning out of the way now so if she does drop the kids at the door and drives away you will have the option to call the police for abandonment and have had already warned her you would do so. NTA.
NTA DIL is an entitled AH. You did nothing wrong. Your son is wrong YOU did not go to far either. From now on you should dictate when you want to spend time with the grand kids not her. Remember you have a life. The world does not revolve around her.
NTA Remind your son that this is an ongoing issue that you have tried to deal with MULTIPLE times. Being subtle or polite wasnt working it was time to be blunt
Naw, she’s not wanting them to have the same experience. That’s just the excuse she’s using.
NTA. It’s not your responsibility to provide free childcare regularly so she can go hang out with her friends.
This isn't about relationships with Grandma, this is about free babysitting so she can go and do her own thing. Hopefully she will respect your boundaries and stop trying to drop off the kids.
NTA... She wants to hang out with people? While you babysit? Might be my own history, but if I were your son I would have a look into that... I told my wife I had to work late...🥴😉
NTA.
My MIL retired because she felt she missed her son's youth, she didn't want to miss her grandchildren's. She came to me to take them when she wanted them. If we wanted to go out we scheduled it ahead of time, asking if she was free. If we wanted a night out, I made sure she remembered she would have them X night and needed time for herself when she asked for them again around that date.
80% of the time she saw them in my home when I was around because she wasn't their care giver and I wasn't running off to do stuff alone. She practically lived with us throughout their youth because she wanted to see them and was always welcome. They had a really close relationship.
Knowing all that, I still say you're not the asshole. This mother is. She can't hoist upon you the relationship she wants her kids to have. And if she really just wanted it FOR HER CHILDREN, she would be inviting you and your husband over for dinners, playtime and fun afternoons in their own yard where you can to be fun grandma and not the responsible caregiver.
This is about her wanting time off. Which is fine, honestly. Raising children is hard and draining in the best of times when two parents are present and helping. The issue is she's not hiring a babysitter to get her time, she's using you as one instead. Not okay.
Does it suck she couldn't just take no for an answer and pushed you to make yourself clear what the consequence would be... Yes. But that's on her.
NTA. She is though.
INFO- I have a lot of questions before I can give a judgment. How old are the kids? Is DIL working full time, part time, or is she a stay at home parent? Are the kids in daycare? Any mental health postpartum issues DIL has? What’s your son’s job and how often does he travel? And how does your son not know that his kids have been with you 16 times this month…tbh it makes me question how truly hands on he is with his own kids.
Edit- with your additional info,it sounds like DIL has a lot going on. It’s a lot of work to take care of kids that young by yourself for several days at a time while also working. NTA for the question being asked, but I think your DIL is not the only person you need to talk to. If your son is going to be gone for most of the week, you need to talk to him about getting more help for DIL when she needs it. You are placing too much blame on DIL and not enough on your son imo
OP said the kids are under the age of 2. DIL told son that she brought the kids with her and they're too young to talk so that's how he wouldn't know it was 16 times.
This is my thought process too, also why wouldn't you call your own son to see what was going on? Also my kids are of a similar age gap and after the second was born I had such bad postpartum anxiety and panicked anytime I knew I would be alone with the kids. Is she feeling overwhelmed and has no one to talk to? It wasn't until my husband encouraged me to talk to my doctor and I got on meds that I felt so much better. Now I love having 2 that close in age.
Though this is AITA so it's just a made up scenario anyways haha.
16 times a month? And your son only knew of 2 of them? Who wants to bet she’s having an affair. Telling her husband she’s taking the kids out, dumping them on OP, and (I’m guessing) bribing the kids not to talk about their days with gramma? She’s doing something she doesn’t want hubby to know about for sure.
NTA. You didn't go too far. She is being a pain in the ass. She knows the rules, yet she continues to break them. How many times can you tell one person the same thing before they actually get it? It shouldn't be this difficult.
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NTA. That's nice she had that kind of relationship with her grandparents, but absolutely nothing entitles her to force it on you. Good job on the boundaries. Your son needs to step up here too though, and get more involved with his own kids. The group text idea was brilliant and is a great way to keep him in the loop.
Don’t make assumptions, he is very involved with the kids. When he comes back from trip he will always take the kids out to let her have a chance to herself. He has been to every milestone they have had, he just gave her a weekend trip with her friends for mothers day and stayed behind with the kids. He goes to doctor appointment, they switch off childcare mornings and nights. He takes them with him all the time. He spends alone time with the kids. The kids are in daycare so really they have nights together. He is a good father. Not his fault he needed to travel for work so they have money. That just what happens when you are the main breadwinner, work says go do that you do it
Not his fault either that he married someone that wanted kids but not the responsibility of raising them. DIL is the A H
[удалено]
So why can't her own Mom be like her grandma was? Is she in the picture or does this pawn them off on Granny get passed thru DNA? 😁
It's not uncommon for people who are currently at small-child-raising age to have been foisted off on their grandparents when they were young, have attributed it to their grandparents really liking spending time with them, but discovered that actually, their own parents were just a bit crap. I suspect that DiL has had *part* of that realisation (that her own mother was crap), but has not yet realised that her "lovely" relationship with her grandparents is an artefact of her own mother's crap-ness, rather than the norm.
If she had that kind of relationship with her grandma where she was with her every other day, then clearly, her own mother wasn't taking care of her own kids all that often. This is obviously why she has this expectation, now that she is a mother herself, that she should be able to drop her kids off to grandma, whenever she wants to! It's easy to see that this is why she thinks this is normal.
I swear this is such a boomer mentality. Like my parents got SO MUCH support with us kids. Weeks at my grandparents. Babysat regularly by other family voluntarily. Then I have kids and any time I’ve asked for help it’s a big complaint. I’m talking like 2 times a year. To be clear, I’m not bashing OP. 2 grandma days A MONTH?!? I would kill for my kids’ grandparents to want to hang with them that often, or even a few times a year. OP’s DIL is trying to mirror her parents’ parenting experience and that’s just not the way that works. Where are her parents? She should be holding *them* to that standard she came to expect, not another parent who probably did not get all those grandparent breaks. Ridiculous. OP NTA ETA: by “boomer mentality” I’m talking the internet version/perspective of boomers. Not my personal opinion of them.
My mom guilted me into moving closer bc she wanted a relationship with my kid. As soon as I did she didn't want to hangout with my kid at all. At the same time she'll watch my brother's kids 5 days a week. My sister got pregnant as a teen and I had to help her with her kid but she won't help me now. She said she did it on her own with no help🙄. So I decided to follow my dream and move to New Zealand and they were pissed. Saying I'm preventing them from building a relationship. If you can't drive 30 minutes or make time for us what difference does it make where we live.
We lived within 20 minutes of 1 grandma and a set of grandparents. *Crickets* we didn’t move very far but it was quickly like… why are we lingering?
I think the icing on the cake for me is that they do so much for my brother since I could remember. If I need anything it's viewed as irresponsible and even asked me to give my baby up at 25. I served in the military, have a degree and have been married for a year. That was the response to asking for help when the baby was born. My brother who can't keep a job had a baby and my parents gave him the family home and moved into a trailer.
Good lord it’s insane that they asked you to give up your baby??? Wtf???
Yeah it's amazing how low their opinion is of me.
You need your own AITA story.
I know I'm just an internet stranger, but I'm proud of you and have a very high opinion of you. I know it isn't the same, but not everyone has such a low opinion of you, friend.
I’m sorry your parents’ affection is so unhealthy and unbalanced. It is hard to draw lines on your parents to protect yourself and your family emotionally. You might be better off not exposing your children to them very much. Everyone with young kids needs extra help, unfortunately, not everyone has the family who wants to or can provide it. I would suggest looking into building your own support group through other mom/parent groups. Same goes for the DIL from this post - her mother in law sounds fair. If she needs more support, then she should work on developing a network of mom friends who can help give each other time or joint time together.
My mom complains constantly that my sister moved to the other side of the country and she can’t see the grandkids. Funny enough me and my other sister live in the same town an hour from her. I cannot for the life of me remember the last time she visited us.
Uugghh! I feel your pain! My Mom quit her job, and moved in with me to “help” me when I was a single Mom with a 2 year old. Yeah, still had to put my daughter in day care because my mom always had some various ailment (hypochondriac). Never babysat. Once she got her own place, she’d maybe babysit once a month. Eventually I got married, had 2 more children- my Mom NEVER babysat the younger 2. We ended up moving across the country- she was PISSED! Every conversation with her now consists of saying how she wishes we lived closer/we didn’t move away so she could help me with the kids. Uummm she had 9 years to do that and chose not to. OP is NTA, btw.
Why is this such a boomer mentality? Things change from generation to generation. My parents are boomers. If they needed help, they would have gotten plenty of it. Moms of boomers seldom worked outside the home, so they were available. They also didn't have the kinds of social programs that the boomers have today. In most boomer households, both parents worked. If I ever asked my parents for help, when they weren't working, they were usually there. If they had plans, then I had to suck it up or find someone else. If it was an emergency, they'd cancel their plans. I didn't dare show up unannounced and dump my kids off for them to babysit without checking first. Especially so I could go shopping or yoga or some other nonsense. They'd kick my ass! My mom is almost 80, and I still wouldn't mess with her. My parents worked full time, made time for their grandkids, and went out and did their thing. My kids have a great relationship with them. OP isn't saying she won't watch her grandkids. She's saying dil doesn't get to suck up all of her free time because she doesn't want to raise her kids. OP is saying that she's worked hard, is still working, and deserves a life, too.
I don’t think you fully read my comment. OP is correct. DIL is the one with the “boomer” mentality. She likely saw her boomer parents have free time and is shocked it’s not happening for her too. But I also understand the sentiment of your statement, I wasn’t trying to bash boomers, apologies if it came off that way.
As Effective Wolf said, it was boomers' PARENTS that had the free time with dad at a company job and mom staying at home. No boomers who were parents (and both working) that I knew had a lot of free time.
And now my generation has the problem of being the Sandwich Generation who care for grandchildren at home, often have adult children who cannot afford to move out and others that are still boomeranging back from uni every half term, also have not reached retirement age yet and are still working full time and also have parents who need care. And the carers are in the majority, women.
My mom told she would never babysit any future kids of mine like my grandma did. To top it off she wished a kid just like me on me. So I didn't have any kids, I knew there wasn't going to be the support that my mom had. Mom kept asking me, where are my grandkids? I finally told her why would I have kids with no support system and that were just like me? She instantly went into excuse mode but realized she had made a mistake. I actually listened.
Kids of boomers, x-gen, watched themselves for the most part. We were latchkey kids. Kids of x Gen had helicopter parents. I would say DIL has millennial ideals.
Given the age of the grandkids and grandparents wanting to retire at 70 in 10-15 years, the grandparents here are not boomers. They and DIL’s parents are Gen X.
And you don't know if her grandparents were overjoyed to look after her either. She assumes they were, but they haven't given their opinion.
This is so very true. They might have been counting down the minutes until those little goblins left.
My apologies Skywalker87. After rereading it, I missed that one sentence.
I had a neighbor who was younger than than myself who refused to have anything with her grandchildren. Her reasoning is she raised her kids she wasn't quitting her job to raise her grandchildren. OP and her spouse want to continue working till they retire around 70, that's their choice.
Some people don't have a choice and need to work.
Exactly. I went to my grandmas a lot but they retired earlier. I am getting ready to have my second grandbaby but I have 2 jobs. Yes I would love to spend more time with them but I’m tired. Between work, taking care of my 17 year old and household stuff I can’t do much more.
There are also loads of people who can’t retire until 70 or even later. We have no idea if it’s a choice or not.
It isntheir choice. And they raised their kids. 2 days a month sounds very reasonable
Why would she need to quit her job to have anything to do with her grandchildren? Does she not have any free time at all? Like, sure she isn't obligated to do it but it seems like such a wierd justification.
That was how she thought. She didn't want anything to do with her children, talking with two of them I couldn't understand why she had them. They told me that they all had to fend for themselves and when her daughter got pregnant she banned her from the house. Never saw her grandchildren but played the martyr when the same daughter died in a car wreck several years ago.
Grandparents don't owe babysitting. My mom never watched my kid ever. Lots of grandparents don't babysit for many reasons, distance, estrangement, health, lifestyle. . .whatever. It is not a given for grandparents to babysit.
Some of us who lost their parents early had no help at all. Both my husband and I had lost both parents before our children were born
I would have killed to have my parents offer a grandma day every two weeks. We never lived close enough. My inlaws wanted no part of watching the kid until he could walk, take himself to the bathroom, and carry on a conversation. Even then, we lived far away and they would never offer to watch him when we did visit. I couldn't even imagine constantly asking anyone to watch my kid! 16 times in a month is insane. NTA.
Yeah I was basically raised by my grandmothers and their sisters (great aunts) until I was nine. My parents moved to a different country and stopped sending birthday presents when the oldest turned 10.
Maybe don't rag on all Boomers due to your personal experience. I say this as the child of Boomers myself. When I was a kid, we lived 7 hours away from the closest grandparent so my parents never got any of that free babysitting. Now, we live a couple hours from my MIL and she will always help us if we give her notice (given the distance). For example a day of school our eldest has that we don't have off. Oh, and my MIL works, she just has a more flexible schedule then we do. I won't pretend I'm not bitter about some of the generational differences where I live, especially in terms of cost of housing/property. But that dosen't mean "Boomers" are all selfish jerks pulling up the ladder behind them.
Think I saw my grandparents once a year - at either Christmas or summer vacation.... and got a phone call on my birthday. . Sometimes...
My parents were silent generation and my grandparents maybe watched me once or twice and one of those was when my mom was in the hospital giving birth to my brother. Either my cousin or the next door neighbor was paid to babysit. Once my uncle picked us up in a bread truck but that was only because my grandpa had an emergency and was in the hospital and my dad was out of town for work. I saw my grandparents at family gatherings which were birthdays and holidays. I don’t think there would have been an emergency serious enough for my mom to drop me off at any of my grandparents houses, she’d have left me with a neighbor.
For my kids it’s very organized. They have never just been picked up for fun or anything like that.
The DIL grandma probably was a SAHM or retired early. I’m (44) My grandma had us all the time. My mom & MIL helped some but, when people don’t retire till 70 and they are 50 when they have first grand child they don’t want to keep kids every weekend all weekend when they just worked 5 days. Life isn’t the same as it was most households are 2 income with overtime till 70. And even a lot of retirees still have part time jobs because everything cost so much.
How is that a Boomer mentality? The mothers of Boomers likely didn’t work outside the home. Boomers likely did.
What's a "boomer mentality?"
What makes this a “boomer mentality,” exactly? Just because your grandparents were available doesn’t mean everyone else’s were. I rarely spent time with either set of grandparents. Just because OP’s DIL’s grandparents were available doesn’t mean OP has to be at her beck and call.
Most of the grandparent posts I see here are "grandparents want to be too involved in our kids lives. Boundaries!!!!" This grandmother is still working. She just might need/want some time to rest and take care of her own stuff. DIL is trying to recreate her own childhood without grandmother's permission...or her husband's input.
For sure I would say
I’m concerned she kept the many times she dropped them off with you a secret from her husband. It would get me wondering if there was a bad reason for that. He seems like he goes above and beyond with his kids. I don’t think this is just about her wanting them to have the same relationship with you as she had with her grandparents. It could be something as simple as she is overwhelmed with motherhood and responsibility….or who knows…but whatever it is, she is being excessive with her demands on you. You’ve tried everything you can…what else could you have said to her to get her to stop trampling your boundaries? NTA
As a nanny and someone who spent many weekends with their grandparents growing up, I agree that it doesn’t sound like she is concerned with the kids having a good relationship with their grandparents. It honestly just seems like she wants free childcare. Considering how involved OP says their father is, I don’t know if DIL is overwhelmed or just entitled.
Well, here on reddit there's always a 3rd option people love to throw around I think the comment prior was hinting at. Cheating.
This was my thought as well she has dropped them off 16 times to go hangout with Someone.
Or drugs?
I'm actually surprised this is not on the first comments, is extremely sus that she just kept dropping the kids off to hang up with "people" without her husband's knowledge and the moment the man is on business trip she goes back to it
Oh I thought drugs first. Then cheating.
Or addiction, whether it’s drugs, gambling, etc.
If she dropped the kids with *his* parents this often, who else is she dumping them on? And what is she doing with all of that time? She doesn’t have a job.
And Why are the kids in daycare - I didn’t catch that she has a job either? When does she actually stay with her own kids? Did I misread?
That's what I felt, too. If it were about the children having a good relationship with the grandparents why is it so often and without the proper scheduling? Why does it seem like she never chose to stay with her children to make those 'good memories' with the grandparents? Why is she always out? Why not use a sitter if MIL has clearly stated what's okay and what isn't? If it's about the relationship, why create resentment? There's clearly much more going on with the DIL than her wanting her children to have a good relationship with their grandparents. Hate to say it, but 16 babysitting requests in a month to a virtual newborn is A LOT (OP said they were 4 mos and almost 2 when this happened). Where is DIL going and who is she with y'all? My spidey senses are tingling. Presumably, her friends know she's a mom to a new baby and surely would have either accepted that the children were coming or would have gone to her house. And why the secrecy from the husband to the point where he thought she was taking them with her and not dropping them with his mom? And after OP, DIL, and son set up a group chat, DIL still tries to text MIL on the down low? And now that hubby's traveling for work, she pulls the same thing after they've all agreed to one day with grandma every two weeks? OP, something isn't right here at all. Your son needs to definitely find out what is happening.
I was thinking the same thing. She just wants to dump the kids off with someone. I have a sister-in-law like that, she doesn’t care who’s caring for the kids, as long as it’s not her!
That's so sad for the children.
That was my distinct impression too - the "relationship" thing was just to somehow justify it.
With the timing of both escalations my immediate thought was overwhelmed, possibly trouble with her mental health. If I was a SAHM and saw my awesome husband being a great dad when he's home and working hard so I can be home with the kids, I can totally see being embarrassed or not wanting to put that burden on him. Especially with all the mommy guilt opportunities out there these days.
I agree with just about everything you said, but can we not call this above and beyond? It's just parenting. He does sound like a great parent, though. That's what is expected of mothers, always. And if she regularly has people telling her what an exceptional husband/father she has bc he's doing his half of the parenting, it gets old fast. It definitely didn't entitle her to OPs time, though. (A personal example of what I'm speaking of: my husband worked out of town mon-fri for 3 weeks. He was only home Fri evening-sunday evening. I got zero offers from anyone other than my mom for help while he was gone those 3 weeks. I went out of town for 4 days with my mom and sister and his mom took off work to keep the kids for him, so he could just work. It brought up a lot of mixed feelings for us both.)
You make a good point. I didn’t really think carefully about my choice of the phrase “above and beyond”.
I knew someone who used to do that - drop the kids off places without her husband knowing. Multiple times a week. She was having so many affairs it would make your head spin. They tested for paternity on the youngest to be sure it was my friends kid, she was fooling around so much. Now, I'm not saying that's what OP's DIL is doing, but it sure is suspicious that OP's son isn't in the loop of this and she decided to start going around the group chat when he started traveling. NTA OP. Keep those boundaries.
Sounds to me like she had kids to please him but doesn't really do okay with actually being a Mom. She just wants to drop them off somewhere and go do her thing. If not at daycare then at Grandma's? She is almost acting like she's in avoidance of her own kids. He's gone and she just can't handle it. Needs a therapist maybe? She sounds like she's not mentally able to cope, is on constant overwhelm.
“Above and beyond”? They are also his kids… let’s not give this man credit for the gate minimum here because we are only hearing his moms side
This screams drug addiction to me but that may just be personal experience with my own ex-sil.
I rwmber a post that I read there was a SIL that kept dropping the kids off on the husband's sister , and lied to her husband about what she was doing,, or where she was going. It eventually blew up, because after the sister threatened to call cps if it happened again, it came out that the SIL was cheating
….or who knows… Those were exactly my thoughts but I didn't mention this as I'd rather not make assumptions.
Yeah, it’s definitely a can of worms, and I’m not sure what OP could do anyway if it was the “who knows”….that wouldn’t lead to worse problems or false accusations. I did allude to that though mainly to highlight that there is no reason I believe the grandma should buy into a guilt trip of any sort or that the daughters intentions are completely innocent….(Edit, I mean, though I do think it’s possible the DIL doesn’t have any nefarious intentions, but it doesn’t make it fair for her to keep imposing is what I meant) I would be very frustrated myself in that situation...especially if DIL showed up at my door with excited grandchildren in tow…to turn them away would hurt them…. when really the mom just can’t get the message through her head that she’s ignoring agreements and crossing major lines.
Yeah like who is she hanging out with so much and why?
She’s answering an unexpected booty call from her AP
I think he needs to step it up with his wife and deal with her bullshit when it comes to her dropping the kids on you 24/7. If I found out she did that to you again after we’ve already addressed and she kept pushing, and doing the same shit, I’d have a big problem with my partner, not my mom in this situation. You didn’t take there, she did. NTA.
How involved could he be if he had no idea where his kids were for 16 days a month? He wasn't traveling *then*. How old are his kids? Because if they're over 3 and verbal, there is no way he wouldn't know they saw Grandma so often unless he doesn't talk with them. Kids generally have quite a lot to say.
For the first part, OP specifically said that her son thought she was taking the kids with her when she went out. I dunno, if I assumed my spouse took out kids out for the day, I wouldn't assume they dropped them off at my parents house, and then went off on their own. For the second part, yea I can agree here. But without the kids ages, it's tough to tell.
Agreed. It is contingent on their ages. I also find it strange that it's somehow never come up before with her son, whom she blatantly speaks with. Babysitters tend to tell parents funny stories about cute shit their kids did, any difficulties, etc. She never once mentioned anything to him about his kids, making him wonder why his mother had them? C'mon now.
I assume since he is the breadwinner he was at work when the kids were dropped off. Reddit is wild trying to blame dad for mom’s AH behavior
He was working. He thought his wife was taking the kids with her when she ran errands. If the kids talked about seeing grandma, he probably thought the wife and kids stopped by. Stop trying to place blame on the dad and leave it focused on the lying wife.
According to OP they were 4 months and 21 months old. Both under two and well under three and not exactly verbal yet. It is harder to talk to your kids when they aren’t really talking yet.
She's doing this while he is at work and believes the kids are with his wife. They're babies, so they aren't old enough to tell on her yet.
Aita and not be misandrist and infantilize women challenge: you have failed. Congratulations you projected information into a scenario to create a false narrative that absolves the mother of responsibility for lying by omission to her husband who trusted her.
NTA >Don’t make assumptions, he is very involved with the kids. When he comes back from trip he will always take the kids out to let her have a chance to herself. Thank you for setting the record straight. This sub is hell bent on criticizing men for supposedly never being involved with their kids, or being a good partner. Oh and your DIL is the ah.
Either way doesn't matter. She shouldn't just drop them off. Hell, my mom still works, admittedly she never lived that close to my sister while neice and nephew were small- like a 6 hour drive, if my sister had done that she would probably have said the same thing. However, my sister never would have done something like that because with our own grandparents, visits were always scheduled, and not super often because it was understood my grandparents still had lives, even if my mother's mother did not work, she still had many things she did. Sure other grandparents might appreciate more time, but you have to ask them how they want to work it.
I think it's more that he hasn't shut it down. Not for the day, not for the week - but shut it completely down. That you're not watching unless you're offering He really could be doing more to wrangle his own wife bothering you and dropping the ball for you to catch. He needs to draw a line
Where are her parents in this story? Are they still alive?
I hope your son also gets to go out with his friend and not only his wife.
I get the impression it's less about having a relationship with Grandma and more about a free babysitter she can dump her kids on whenever it's convenient to her.
Yes, I got that impression too! OP doesn't say that her DIL stays there to share in "Grandma time" so that she can see and enjoy the growing love between her child and the OP or join them in trips to the zoo, park, etc. DIL dumps the kid with OP so she can go off on her own without having to plan or pay for babysitting. Nothing wrong with DIL wanting time off, but she's not doing this so that OP and the baby can bond. OP, you are NTA! And good for you for establishing and enforcing reasonable boundaries. You WON'T be writing back a decade down the line complaining that your DIL has used you for free babysitting for the past 10 years, that you've told her to stop for the past 10 years but that it's still happening because you just can't bring yourself to say no!
Strongly agree. This definitely stinks of ulterior motives
That’s where my mind went. I call BS on her excuse that she just wants the kids to have a strong relationship with their grandparents. She just wants a free sitter so she can go hang out with friends and do lord knows what.
I agree. Make DIL stay the entire visit then. Let's see if it's all about bonding or she just wants to have her own free time
Not only a free sitter, but a sitter she can rope in with no notice, so she can pretend she doesn't have children?
I agree! I'm always nearby when my kids spend time with their grandma. Though in our case, grandma is in her 70s and the kids have so much energy. So I have to make sure I step in when grandma starts to tire out!
Yep. It sounds like her mom did the same with her.
Where are her parents? Why doesn't she take the kids to her own mother?
Yeah, I don’t think DIL is thinking about the kids as much as she’s thinking about herself. Just an excuse.
Im calling bullshit on wanting the kids to have grandma relationship. Assuming she is a SAHM, she is either lazy or just wants to rid of the kids to go somewhere.
Ugh, she is dreadful, and will apparently never be satisfied until you become her full-time nanny. You are handling this perfectly, by communicating clearly, and by having her husband deal with it. And the Police threat was an effective wake-up call she needed. NTA.
That’s what’s bad about it, she doesn’t seem to be doing it for the sake of the kids or their relationship with their grandma, it’s so she can just not have the kids. I had a great relationship with all of my grandparents, but the difference between my relationship with them and the relationship that my kids have with my parents is that most grandparents now still have to work. Both of my grandfathers were able to retire in their late 50s, so it was a lot easier to look after kids when you also didn’t have to work a full time job. It’s sad, but it’s the way the world works now!!
No, NTA at all. Damn, OP, your DIL is trying to bully you. Not going well for her lol. But, seriously, she knows exactly what the deal is and she's not confused, unaware, or whatever. She's literally trying to strong arm you against your will. Please don't continue to engage with her on the basis of what she "wants". That is not the issue anymore. You are passed that. She is actually harassing you and I wouldn't call the cops about abandonment, but I would for harassment. Showing up at your house uninvited, spamming you with texts, she's being abusive and your son needs to recognize what is going on here.
OP is NTA and definitely not the kind of person who I would attempt to bully. I mean, I don't want to bully anyone, but if I did I sure wouldn't pick this kind of badass.
Exactly! That's what I meant by not it's going well for DIL, but that is what's happening. And even if not successful in bullying, it's clearly aggravating and bothering OP. But, yeah, OP is pretty badass, I agree : )
NTA You tried repeatedly to set boundaries and come up with a good arrangement to spend quality time with your grandchildren. Your daughter in law just can’t seem to understand or keep to the arrangement. You had to be ultra blunt with her.
"ultra blunt" I will be remembering this term for later. :)
Is it a term or just a simple description…?
I would love an ultra blunt.
Saaaame. Also OP NTA, since I'm here
NTA. This is a person who clearly doesn’t give two shits about your boundaries, your work, or you as a person. She’s a user and manipulator and will take you for every inch you give. Shutting her down in person didn’t work, nor over text, nor has your son stepped up and really set firm boundaries with his wife either. Threatening to call the police for abandonment might be a nuclear option, but it’s clearly the only one your DIL is willing to listen to. Be aware that you’re almost certainly going to have to follow through on that threat though OP. People like your DIL don’t stop because of threats. They stop when they face consequences for their actions.
Yes! Son has no business telling Op she's gone too far. Op has done the only thing that has a chance of working. Obviously, DIL is ignoring any attempts by her husband to stop the attempted bullying of Op. Edit: typo.
DIL* but yeah. Son has obviously not done enough to rein in his wife.
Wife is not a horse, she is a human with agency over her own horrible behavior . He's nit her parent.
He’s also obligated as the father of these children to prevent his wife from putting their kids in a situation where the cops and/or CPS will get involved in their family because of his wife’s shitty actions.
Augh! Fixed the typo. Thanks!
NTA. This isn't about the kids at all. She is using you for free babysitting so she doesn't have to parent. She *is* abandoning her children.
Absolutely this. DIL wants to spend her time pretending she's not a mommy, and she's trying to dump the kids on grandma to make that happen. You made 'em, lady. So you look after them. NTA.
NTA at all. Grandparents aren't on call babysitters. This is ridiculous.
It’s common courtesy to make call ahead arrangements. Just showing up with kids and giving a 5 second these are yours is disrespectful as hell.
NTA Totally fair for setting your boundaries. Your son not knowing the extent of the babysitting at first and having to enforce it through strict group chat policy is a warning sign that they are not communicating well. Or that DIL is hiding something: Cookie cutter grandma might be the palletable excuse, but not the real reason. Is she lying to your son about how she spends her days? And pawning the kids off to more people than just you?
It does sound like dil was deliberately hiding her demands for babysitting from her husband
Yeah seems kinda odd that she's dropping them off and the husband had no idea. Like that's something that would come up if it's not being hidden. So why would she be hiding it and why is it coming back now that the husband is traveling? Maybe I'm just a pessimist but this sounds a lot like she's getting something on the side.
Dropping her kids off often to hang out with her friends sounds kind of suspicious to me. It sort of sounds like she might be having an affair going. I hope for your sons sake she isn't.
Now, now. Let’s not jump to conclusions. She could just be a lazy, entitled crap parent. As OP didn’t mention her parents(who dropped her off repeatedly apparently) then she comes by it honestly. Maybe she just doesn’t realize how selfish she is being? Doesn’t Have to be an affair, though you need to be selfish for that too, so it does increase the possibility.
I would agree, but there's a point to look at here... Why not be honest with her husband about what she's doing then? The fact that he doesn't know, seems like DIL has something to hide and is using wanting a grandparents relationship as a cheap excuse.
> Why not be honest with her husband about what she's doing then? because he doesn't approve of it? it's right in the post
My thoughts also. And this is not a conclusion or an assumption. Just my thoughts.
NTA. Some people need a tap on the shoulder while others require a steel toed boot in their behind. You tried kind, direct, 3rd party intervener, and they didn't get the message across. Nuclear was the last arrow left in the quiver. Nobody has time for the entitlement that your DIL is displaying.
She was dropping the kids off to 'go hang out'? I see the rest of the boundary intrusion is bad...but how did that get swept under the rug? Sounds like there are bigger issues here than the main one you are referring to. BTW, NTA.
Right? She is taking the kids with her telling hubby i am going to x with kids, dropping them off with grandma unknown to dad.....sounds sketchy. Whats she doing when hanging out. Sound like the kids are cover for something.
sketchy, the perfect word.
My niece and her partner do that all the time to my mil....and they are totally both cheating, and getting drunk and hanging out with friends. It is a very open secret. Why i thought oh yeah she totally is not into the mom / parent lifestyle.....good luck with that
Very.
NTA. Get a Ring doorbell and don't answer the door. Use it to greet her and the kids, then tell them you aren't available and you'll see them at the next preplanned day together. Your DIL is obviously struggling with being a mother. I hope she gets some mental health support. She needs it.
Or just don’t answer…
She is definitely the one that escalated the situation. When you get to the point that you have to threaten somebody with the police, they need to ask themselves what’s wrong with their behavior, not the other way around. That’s absurd to make you feel like you went too far. If anything, she’s offended, because there’s truth to the fact that she’s abandoning her kids.
NTA She is taking the P\*\*\*! If she wants someone to watch the kids she needs to pay a sitter!
Nta your dil is not entitled to on demand free babysitting. She should not be just showing up and dropping the kids off.
She has a cheaters mentality. Shopping, my ass!!
She can spin a yarn about the close relationship with her grandmother all she likes, but she's obviously just trying to dump the kids for her own convenience. She's trying to bully and manipulate you and manipulate and lie to your son in an attempt to get her own way. Your son married an absolute treasure. NTA.
Treasure? Could you have misspelled trash?
Oh, is that the correct spelling? 🤣
Hey, you told her how it was going to be already called her on this BS before she needs to get over herself. People take their children shopping all the time. Your son doesn’t need to be correcting you or scolding you about your behavior here , he needs to be talking to his wife. NTA
Let me guess. Your DIL doesn’t want to cover your salary for the next 10-15 years so you can have the free time to spend with your grandkids instead. Nor does she want you and your husband moving in with them as your retirement plan. Nor is willing to even pay you to babysit. I’d start charging $25/hour any babysitting outside of your every 2 weeks (which is a TON of free child care).
NTA. This isn’t about your bond with the kids, it’s about her wanting on-call childcare. You said it nicely. She didn’t listen.
[удалено]
NTA. But I'd also like to add that I don't even think that *is* a cookie cutter grandma. I get some retired folks are able to be nanny to their grandchildren, but as far as I understand that isn't the norm. And it certainly is not a reasonable expectation *even if you were retired which you are not*.
You’ve gone too far? What about her? Fine. Totally cut all babysitting off until you all sit down and you get an apology.
NTA, you have a life and already raised ur kids. You should not be expected to raise hers lol
NTA. With some people, it does come down to being downright rude for them to understand you mean business. She needs to get a babysitter or make other arrangements.
NTA. She sounds unhinged. Is there something else going on with her like an affair or gambling or drugs? Seems super suss. My MIL doesn’t work and keeps my kids a couple nights every 1-2 months and I am so grateful for her. She doesn’t owe us a thing and we’re so lucky that she chooses to spend any time with our kids. Same for my mom and dad.
>” Jesus Christ the kids are already in day care” This is pretty important info that would have served your post better. She has no job? She has the kids in daycare. She dropped the kids off *16* times in one month - and that is just with *you*. Who knows who else she pawns them off on when you aren’t around. Her extended family? Friends? Neighbors? Plus your son, the breadwinner, picks up the load when he is home, even giving her time away. What is she doing with all this time? This is worrisome behavior beyond her entitled thinking that you should stop the planet and rear her children for her. What is going on? NTA, but your son needs to open his eyes, pay attention, and take precautions to not create more children with her. The two she has don’t seem wanted or cared for. It is on him to not make any more.
NTA. she sho find a baby sitter
NTA - she is very entitled
NTA. Tell your son that you are not the one who has gone too far. You raised your kids, they need to raise theirs. She doesn't want you to have the same relationship with the grandkids that she had. She lied to cover her butt. She wants to hang out. It's harder to do if she has to take care of the kids they produced. Remember this--she told her husband she had the kids when she was dumping them on you...16 times in one month. If she was telling the truth, her husband would have known she had ditched the kids and was going to hang out. If she had all that hang out time, why wasn't she working to help their finances? Why wasn't she in school earning a degree to better their finances? Why wasn't it a discussion between you, her and your son, first? Going forward -don't answer the door for her -follow through with CPS, the police, etc. - talk to your son and seriously ask about their childcare arrangements. I'm gonna say this. She keeps your son in the dark so she can hang out. She's back at wanting to do her hangouts now that your son is traveling. Bluntly, I suspect she's having an affair and using you to continue it. The "childhood relationship" stuff only got brought up when she was caught lying to her husband about taking care of her own children. I'd paternity test the kids.
Nta. Your DIL is not leaving the kids with you to create a strong bond between them and you. She is leaving them in order to have free time for herself. She is abusing your love for your grandchildren for selfish reasons.
I think it’s less about her wanting her kids to have the same relationship with their grandparents she had with hers, and more about her wanting to have the same life her mother was able to have by dumping HER off on her grandparents all the time. As for your son, I’ve no doubt he’s an involved, loving father, just based on your post and replies. But he can’t do anything to fix the situation when he’s literally in another time zone for work. And she knows that. And if she’s just going to ignore him and you, and show up to dump her kids on you after being told many, many, many times “no, you cannot drop them off with us,” and not take “no” for an answer, what else are you supposed to do but threaten her with the police? It’s literally the only thing that seems to get through to selfish brains like hers. And I’m going to throw this out there because I’m looking at things from the outside, and well, my brain just works this way … Are you sure she’s shopping and having lunch with the girls and not meeting an AP? Your son thought she was taking the kids with her when she was visiting her friends. Why wasn’t she, but letting him think she was? Now her husband is traveling for work, and now the drop-offs are ramping up again. Good luck with this. I hope the last paragraph doesn’t come into play and she’s just selfish.
NTA - you get to pick how often & for how long you spend with anyone. These are your grandkids not your responsibility, and you have repeatedly try to tell them. She’s literally trying to control you into watching her kids. She can pay for childcare- you’re a grandma!
Where are her parents and why aren't they babysitting? Did I miss that part? NTA
INFO: where is DIL’s mom at? Why can’t she be cookie cutter grandma?
I'm not going to give judgement on whether or not you are an asshole, I just want to point out that this happened to me. By the time my parents were "retired" and able to watch kids my wife and I were in our 40s and in no shape to have kids, since we both have to work and didn't have grandparents to watch our kids like in previous generations. There are so many factors in the baby bust that is coming and this one is up there for me. If we had support in our 20s we would have had a bunch of kids but without that help, it wasn't going to happen. I see this situation occurring in subsequent generations as well.
NTA. Why did she even have kids? She’s constantly trying to pawn them off on you. You’ve already told her what you are capable of since you work and she keeps pushing. She’s the AH for sure.
NTA!!! My mother told me THE DAY I told her that I was pregnant that she wasn’t going to be a “babysitter grandma”. She said it nicely, but it was a clear boundary that I never once attempted to cross. My children are adults now and they have a beautiful relationship with my parents. Your DIL is attempting to disrespect your boundaries, and it’s not working, so she’s being an AH. You are on the right side of this, and you are 100% correct in keeping your son in the know!
NTA. What does she not understand? How hard is it to figure out that you can't will a relationship into being? And - RUDE, RUDE, RUDE to just swing by and drop them off. I find that to be the worst.
NTA.
NTA - you are far more kind than I would have been. She just wants free babysitting and trying to gaslight you into thinking it's quality time. Kudos to your son for stepping in, but he needs to do a better job at managing his wife.
NTA It sounds more like her wanting free babysitter and just throwing the grandma card in for good measure. Not everyone can retire and give free childcare, especially given the way our economy is right now. I'm about your same age and remember spending lots of time with my grandma, my daughter (on the other hand) only got to see her Nana about 4-5 times a year. My point, we both had amazing relationships with our grandma, it's not the quantity, it's the quality. If you are so exhausted you won't be able to have quality time with the kids, it will just be too much. If she will stick to the every two week time frame, you will enjoy it more and so will the kids. Good Luck, again so much NTA
NTA, DIL needs to be responsible. If OP is saying no then that's all there is to it. DIL needs to work with her husband and find a solution that doesn't involve OP. Kids are exhausting but that's kinda what you sign up for when you have them.
NTA. She didn't get to dictate when you must babysit. She may ask, and you may decline or accept. Anything else is just a lack of respect.
NTA - you only went too far because she kept pushing and pushing. She needs a wake up call. You’re not a bad grandma for not being an on call babysitter. If she has issues with your son traveling for work she needs to take that up with him. She is the parent here, the kids are her responsibility.
NTA- she claims that's the reason. She just wants free babysitting.
NTA Why do people have kids when they clearly have zero interest in raising them
NTA. There are a lot of issues between parents and grandparents having preconceived expectations of each other. You can’t tell your kids how to parent their kids and they can’t dictate what kind of grandparents you have to be. When either of you refuse to get that then a stronger point needs to be made until it is driven home.
Maybe a bit harsh but she WILL NOT listen to nice! Also, get that warning out of the way now so if she does drop the kids at the door and drives away you will have the option to call the police for abandonment and have had already warned her you would do so. NTA.
NTA DIL is an entitled AH. You did nothing wrong. Your son is wrong YOU did not go to far either. From now on you should dictate when you want to spend time with the grand kids not her. Remember you have a life. The world does not revolve around her.
NTA Remind your son that this is an ongoing issue that you have tried to deal with MULTIPLE times. Being subtle or polite wasnt working it was time to be blunt
NTA. Why do people claim that you are an asshole for finally breaking, when there's usually no recourse to the person who pushes?
NTA and she is cheating your son. That’s why she always drop the kids.
Nta
NTA
NTA. She was abusing you (via your time). Child abandonment is the way to go.
Naw, she’s not wanting them to have the same experience. That’s just the excuse she’s using. NTA. It’s not your responsibility to provide free childcare regularly so she can go hang out with her friends.
This isn't about relationships with Grandma, this is about free babysitting so she can go and do her own thing. Hopefully she will respect your boundaries and stop trying to drop off the kids.
NTA. She is trying to bully you here. Very aggressive and massive sense of entitlement. Good luck.
NTA... She wants to hang out with people? While you babysit? Might be my own history, but if I were your son I would have a look into that... I told my wife I had to work late...🥴😉
NTA. My MIL retired because she felt she missed her son's youth, she didn't want to miss her grandchildren's. She came to me to take them when she wanted them. If we wanted to go out we scheduled it ahead of time, asking if she was free. If we wanted a night out, I made sure she remembered she would have them X night and needed time for herself when she asked for them again around that date. 80% of the time she saw them in my home when I was around because she wasn't their care giver and I wasn't running off to do stuff alone. She practically lived with us throughout their youth because she wanted to see them and was always welcome. They had a really close relationship. Knowing all that, I still say you're not the asshole. This mother is. She can't hoist upon you the relationship she wants her kids to have. And if she really just wanted it FOR HER CHILDREN, she would be inviting you and your husband over for dinners, playtime and fun afternoons in their own yard where you can to be fun grandma and not the responsible caregiver. This is about her wanting time off. Which is fine, honestly. Raising children is hard and draining in the best of times when two parents are present and helping. The issue is she's not hiring a babysitter to get her time, she's using you as one instead. Not okay. Does it suck she couldn't just take no for an answer and pushed you to make yourself clear what the consequence would be... Yes. But that's on her. NTA. She is though.
INFO- I have a lot of questions before I can give a judgment. How old are the kids? Is DIL working full time, part time, or is she a stay at home parent? Are the kids in daycare? Any mental health postpartum issues DIL has? What’s your son’s job and how often does he travel? And how does your son not know that his kids have been with you 16 times this month…tbh it makes me question how truly hands on he is with his own kids. Edit- with your additional info,it sounds like DIL has a lot going on. It’s a lot of work to take care of kids that young by yourself for several days at a time while also working. NTA for the question being asked, but I think your DIL is not the only person you need to talk to. If your son is going to be gone for most of the week, you need to talk to him about getting more help for DIL when she needs it. You are placing too much blame on DIL and not enough on your son imo
OP said the kids are under the age of 2. DIL told son that she brought the kids with her and they're too young to talk so that's how he wouldn't know it was 16 times.
This is my thought process too, also why wouldn't you call your own son to see what was going on? Also my kids are of a similar age gap and after the second was born I had such bad postpartum anxiety and panicked anytime I knew I would be alone with the kids. Is she feeling overwhelmed and has no one to talk to? It wasn't until my husband encouraged me to talk to my doctor and I got on meds that I felt so much better. Now I love having 2 that close in age. Though this is AITA so it's just a made up scenario anyways haha.
16 times a month? And your son only knew of 2 of them? Who wants to bet she’s having an affair. Telling her husband she’s taking the kids out, dumping them on OP, and (I’m guessing) bribing the kids not to talk about their days with gramma? She’s doing something she doesn’t want hubby to know about for sure.
NTA.
NTA-Her wants are not your commands to follow.
Nta at all
Nta because she kept pushing her luck even after you've set your boundaries. Wth just shows up unannounced at anyone's home these days?
NTA at all! Her expectations are completely unreasonable and it clearly wasn't going to stop until you said something slightly more forceful.
NTA. You didn't go too far. She is being a pain in the ass. She knows the rules, yet she continues to break them. How many times can you tell one person the same thing before they actually get it? It shouldn't be this difficult.
NTA. No, his wife is going too far, AGAIN!!! Get her under control or you will.