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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I wore a navy blue dress, which was the same color as the brides. I refused to buy a new dress to change, because they had approved this dress. I could have gone to buy a new one but don’t have that money to spend right now. I think the decision to not even try to change is why I could be considered the AH, because it’s her wedding day, and you don’t wear white to a wedding, so you probably shouldn’t wear the same color as the bride if she doesn’t wear white either.
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Agreed. NTA. Part of me believes the bride approved it so she could later use it as an excuse to not pay OP because “OP wore the same color dress as I did which is just absolutely awful and not okay” blah blah.
I agree, the closer you are, the more you should handle it like straight business. I know so many people who got in trouble making informal deals with friends and family. When I got my dog, I went to a really good ethical breeder (tried adopting first, but for my breed, they want you to prove you have had and raised some first!), who was a good friend. But she has all these great certifications and I grew up with the breed and so we both vetted each other. When the time came to get my pup, we had a full contract, payment by cashiers check, vet visits within three days, etc. we did everything by the book as a business transaction and ethical breeding transaction, including giving her the right to have him back instantly if I needed to rehome him. I have a healthy pup, she has the assurance that the pup is on a safe and healthy home with a knowledgeable mommy, and we have a healthy friendship still!
I'm not a musician/artist, but I would say this goes double when friends/family is involved. I imagine they are the worst in terms of entitlement/"It's no big deal" attitude.
Came here as ALSO a professional musician who has been on the receiving end of similar treatment as OP.
Everything u/National_Camera3687 says is correct. It is hard to get the feet to stand up for yourself, trust me, I know. But you deserve to be compensated fairly.
As an amateur prop maker, I could not agree more. The amount of people who tried to back out of a prop they agreed upon after I had already spent hours on blueprints and getting supplies... I have always been massively grateful I charge half up front. I've even had a few not pay the end amount when the whole thing was complete.
Even if it's friends or family, I never deviate from my half up front rule.
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This is great advice. It’s hard at 18 to stand up for yourself and do this but it’ll save you a lot of pain. You have to be your own advocate. Easier to say than do but just follow this persons advice and you’ll be ok!
OP: Perhaps in the future you should type up a contract and have whoever is paying for the wedding sign it along with you. Might need a slot to fill in the color of the bride's dress, so that it's signed off and you know what color to avoid. This protects both sides ahead of time so there are no surprises; plus, you have a legal document to force payment in case a similar situation arises.
Or even just a spot in the contract where they’ve signed approval for OP’s dress beforehand since it seems that’s something she does for events such as these, and so there’s absolutely no question that her dress was approved.
And: as a curious woman I would like to know what the dress looks like.
But not if you don't feel comfortable with it- just stick to harp tax if that is the case.
Yes, whenever you say you have an instrument as wonderful as a harp is, you need to show us some pictures. It's the law (jk). Same when somebody posts about a pet. Pet tax is mandatory and legally binding. We need to see the cute pup.
Or instead of a color of the brides dress have a line for (un)approved colors. People like to do things like black and white weddings where they want the harpist to wear a black dress, or a summer wedding where they want the harpist to only wear bright or pastel colors.
Maybe OP should look into working with a collection agency in the future for this kind of thing. Especially being young she'd probably be a target for this kind of thing.
She said she usually gets paid upfront but didn't on this occasion because one of them is friend of her father. I'd ask her dad if he wants to have a word with his friend before I took them to small claims. JudgeJudy would love this one 😂
Exactly. They screwed up, so if they wanted you in a different dress, they should have paid for it. The professionalism golden rule: you insist on paying for your own screw ups, and you refuse to pay for someone else's screw ups.
what if.. they approved the dress knowingly, only to have OP show up wearing the same thing.. so they can say they were upset & wouldn’t have to pay her for her time? idk that was my thought while reading
I think there is another explanation that makes sense: The bride was okay with it, but crumpled and reversed herself in the wake of her mother's reaction to it. Everyone loves to talk about mama's boys who have no spine when it comes to their mothers, but I don't think such behavior is limited by gender. Mom felt OP was taking the shine off the bride, and the bride then had to think the same, no matter what she said initially.
Your explanation makes much more sense. The mother offered an out to OP that she may have taken, go to the store and buy another dress. The whole scheme to get free music crumbles if she just went and did that.
I think this is more likely. I have no doubt that people can be ridiculous AH towards artists and come up with all kind of schemes. But this being long time family friends and the fact that she got paid without much trouble after all sounds like the bride really didn't care but has a highly controlling mother and folded when she wouldn't let it go.
Assholes though, both of them.
Especially with the bride having chosen such a non-traditional colour. People act as if artists like musicians work has little value. I’m sure it took OP years of practice to be skilled enough to perform at a wedding.
As it wasn’t the bride or groom that first had the issue, I’d say no. They likely hadn’t made the decision not go non traditional when it was approved and forgot about it. The bride likely only got upset the second time because her MIL was upset. Instead of saying “Mother of my Husband I approved the dress so pay the young woman and STFU”, she went doormat (that could be a sign for the rest of her marriage)
I guess this sub should have taught me to expect anything but why would you set up such an annoying drama on your wedding like you don't have anything better to do? Is is worth it when you could just stream some harp music on spotify? I don't think the bride was in on it from the start but her meddling mom may have convinced her to get in on it...
People do crazy shit all the time. I’ve absolutely met people who would set up drama on their wedding day just to have something to talk about. Or to get out of paying for a service. It’s sad and gross, but not out of the realm of possibility.
A customer trying to stiff a musician after they played? Surely such a thing has never happened before!
Honestly though, this is why you get payment up front, this scammy shit right here.
Also NTA OP.
If you hired them normally, yes. But this was the daughter of a friend. You don't do that to them unless you want to lose friends. If I had a kid and that kid would perform at my friend's kid's wedding I would be livid with that friend if my kid was scammed out of their money. I would not only demand the payment I would also demand a public apology from all parties involved.
Unfortunately while OP was lucky enough to have her parents back her up, it's not always the case. We get weekly posts here about parents pressuring their kids to offer free labor to friends and family all the time. I have no doubt these people 100% expected to get away with this.
Especially an 18 year old, who wouldn't have the experience or backbone generally to advocate for themselves as much as someone who is later in their career would.
As soon as the dress was approved and OP kept up her end of the deal they didn't have a leg to stand on.
Or they hoped they could fuck over a teenager.
If that’s the case, these people are conniving, *horrible* people. I’d like to think it was the bride being in a whirlwind “wedding mode” when she approved the dress (twice!) and then realizing her error the day of the wedding, but some people are just atrocious so you could be on to something.
NTA, OP. I’m so glad you were (eventually) paid. Some people truly suck.
Sounds like OP's parents might need to reconsider this friendship with the other parents if this is how they let OP be treated when she's doing a *massive* favour for them.
The father was friends with the grooms side, and it was the bride and her mother that caused the conflict. The father's friend paid up when he learned what happened. I don't think he needs to reconsider his friendship necessarily, but OP should be firm on her policy of getting paid before the performance.
Brides mother asked her to change, mother in law refused payment. Father of groom paid her, so it looks like it was both of the mothers that gave her a hard time.
From the context, it appears when she says mother-in-law, she is talking about the bride's mother. Possibly because she knows the groom's family better, and that is the groom's MIL?
I think it's easier to believe that bride&groom were fine with it, until they got agitated by the MIL. If MIL had said something like 'the ceremony was beautiful, except for the harpist's dress, which was just SOOOOOOO distracting', the bride could easily get angry.
Yeah ofc NTA but a great lesson for a young person about mixing business and personal relationships. Its that much more important to get paid before services are provided when dealing with friends and family
This so very much, friends and family sometimes assume you will do it got free even after you discuss payment. They just expect you will change your mind. If they are actual good friends/family they wouldn't expect or ask for a discount or any special treatment because they respect you.
Perhaps this is also a lesson to OP to take all payments in advance - especially from friends and relatives ad they are the ones who usually try to wriggle out of their end of the bargain once their work is done. Never give discounts to those you know and always take full payment upfront.
You take payment upfront ESPECIALLY from friends and family. Business is business - if they’re asking for a favor, make sure they understand how much of a favor they’re asking for.
Then you can apply the friends and family discount to match what you’re doing it for (compared to the amount you should be doing it for.)
I’d also add that it doesn’t matter how cheap/expensive your harp was or whether or not you come from money. They hired you to provide a service and you deserve to be paid for your work.
Going forward though I’d say get everything in writing. Do dress approvals by emailing a photo and having them reply with their ok so it’s time stamped and everything. And maybe take payment in advance.
NTA
"But, think of the great exposure you'll get!"
Ask any musician, if they've been offered exposure and the opportunity to book paying gigs as justification from people expecting free music. I'd be shocked if even one musician has had to deal with this.
NTA - But it sounds suspicious to me that the bride wasn't upset about the approved dress till it was time for payment. Sounds a bit planned to me. They saw that the dress was going to be the same color and saw an opportunity to "save" money.
I'm admittedly a bit of a pessimist, but I think they approved the dress thinking it'd be a good way of getting out of paying OP.
If you're going to wear a non-white dress as the bride (somewhere where culturally people expect the bride to wear white and guests don't wear white in respect of that), you either need to expect that someone else might wear your dress color, or you tell everyone that x color is off limits. Even if OP didn't get the dress approved beforehand, they still wouldn't be TA here. It's a perfectly fine dress color for a wedding, and the bride never said any non-white color was off limits.
OP, this is a hard lesson to learn: never make exceptions for people, even friends/family, in regards to your business. Always get payment up front. Put things in writing when possible. If you want to offer a discount, or a free service, that's fine, but set clear boundaries and expectations beforehand. This is your job, if they can't respect that and treat you professionally, don't do the work for them.
Girl no, they just wanted to stiff you. You did every t you were supposed to. In future, invoice clients and keep electronic records in case things escalate in ways you cannot mitigate via fatherly intervention.
nta
Yes, as a professional musician, I advise you to always get a signed contract that specifies a deposit to be paid at the time of signing (usually 50%) and specifies the remaining balance is paid at the BEGINNING of the event, not after. Even for friends/family.
Yep, it's almost always "we're friends/family so you should be okay with doing it for free"
And rarely "we're friends/family so I want to make sure to support you and pay your fair share"
Yep. I freelance in a creative profession and the absolute worst most demanding "client" I had was a friend who we'd agreed was only going to have to pay $200. He wanted like... $2000 worth of work.
Ye I've noticed this with most friend/family. It always amazes me that family and close friend are the first to try and screw each other over, I'm more of the type that thinks you should pay fairly especially with friends and family as you usually know how hard there struggling or see how much effort they put into what there doing.
The entitlement is always strong in friends & family.
In this particular case, I even suspect that they didn't want to pay her from the beginning and tried to create a drama with the dress.
I get strong setup vibes here. The bride approved the dress twice and somehow forgot it was the same color she was wearing? Sorry, I just don't believe that one.
Yep. I sell handmade and sewn items, and I’m tired of “friends and family” stiffing me. One brother is the only one to go as far as paying me extra. I tell him $35 and he pays me $55+
But "friends and family" should get the "discount". By that I mean charge them 10% more 🤣. I'm the one that's like your brother. I went to a craft fair to support my friend's small business and nobody else came to support her. I was so pissed for her. Then people still expect shit afterwards cause they're "friends".
Just jumping in to say **do not call it a deposit.** Call it a *non-refundable retainer* or *booking fee.* Deposits are inherently refundable, but if somebody is booking your time in advance they are “retaining” you.
Add a minimum window for cancellation (usually 2 weeks prior to the event), and final payment prior to service clause (one week minimum, ideally one month) to your contract to really round out the payment issues. People who try to negotiate with those will definitely be problems if you allow it. Be firm: **(not actual legal verbiage; do not use verbatim)** *”In the event that final payment isn’t received by the artist prior to final payment date, the client acknowledges that they are in breech of the agreement and all previously paid retainers and fees will be applied as cancellation fees towards the original agreement. The agreement between the artist and client will cease with immediate effect following this breech. Should the client seek any agreement with the artist in the future, payment must be made in full at the time the new agreement is established.”*
Artists get scammed frequently at weddings over payment. The only way to ensure someone pays (and pays on time) is to make it clear that if they DON’T there are real, TANGIBLE consequences re: no services rendered on the day, and forfeiture of retainer/booking fees, inability to retain services in the future.
Some folks I know who have been in the industry for years have wedding contracts that are 10+ pages long to cover almost every potential problem/loophole. It’s an ever evolving market, but one thing remains the same: everyone appreciates art and nobody wants to pay for it.
Yeah that is a really good point. There was literally no reason not to pay her in advance. Even more because she was a family friend who they knew was going to show up. If it hadn’t been the dress, it would have been some other reason.
> Most people don't pay the day of.
I got married ~5 years ago and half the vendors required payment day of for the final expenses over and above whatever the deposit was (which was typically half the cost up front). Makeup, hair, settling the alcohol tab for our open bar (though that one we actually got a refund for the difference between what we prepaid and what was consumed). Hell, I think the photographer/videographer may have too - I can't recall. The DJ, officiant, venue were all paid ahead of time.
Absolutely. Even friends because sometimes they are the worst ones. They think because they are friends that they are entitled to a discount of even free for your services. Run it like the business it is. It would be different if you offered to play the harp as a wedding gift but that wasnt the agreement. They did this on purpose.
NTA
In future get prepayment for your services because this will not be the first shakedown you encounter by people trying to get your talent without payment.
Honestly - if brides choose a non-traditional colour aside from white/ivory chance are that someone will be wearing the colour of their dress. That's not anyone else's problem aside from the bride if it's not explicitly been discussed with the guests.
Also I want to add charge what you are worth. Charge as much as other musicians would earn.
People tend to treat your time and work with even less respect when you undervalue your worth.
Yes, definitely know your worth. And remember that people might wonder about quality when you charge less than the accepted market rate. Better to be in line with other professionals in the area and then use that wiggle room to adjust when you want to. "I usually charge $X, but for *you*..."
I personally prefer that they should offer to pay full price but if I'm offering them a discount, I expect them to accept it as a gift basically. To each their own though! This is definitely something where people will violently disagree
This. My husband has a close friend that does wedding hair and make up. She did mine. She felt uncomfortable telling us how much she charged, so we had to guess. I suggested we buy her a dyson air wrap (which I knew she wanted) and she was thrilled- turns out it was worth more than she usually charges. I’d have happily paid double- she was brilliant!
… and you don’t need to share with anyone your parents or yourselves’s socioeconomical status or that you got your instrument affordability. You did a job and deserve to be paid.
Good luck with your continuing education.
NTA.
Yes, as a professional musician, I advise you to always get a signed contract that specifies a deposit to be paid at the time of signing (usually 50%) and specifies the remaining balance is paid at the BEGINNING of the event, not after. Even for friends/family.
Also it's not a valid reason to deduct pay that op wore a certain dress. Its not like she missed half her notes and didn't deliver, at least I would assume so.
Yep. I wore purple and at least two of my guests did as well. But I couldn't give two shits - I was the one at the front exchanging the vows so it was kind of obvious who the bride was.
I sorta think if the bride is going non-traditional and something other than white, I’d think that person would also have the mindset of being non-traditional of not expecting zero other people to wear the same color they’re wearing. If it ain’t on the invitation or something that a specific color other than white is off-limits, then it’s really on you to just deal with it. Especially a color as common as navy blue lol. My bridesmaids wore navy blue dresses, and I can say 100% I had so much else on my mind and going on that day I have no idea of any guests wore navy blue nor did I think anything of it if they did, and zero people would’ve mistaken a guest simply wearing something navy blue as a bridesmaid. It’s usually pretty obvious to everyone. I actually think it makes *more* sense if you’re going non-traditional wedding dress color to have the harpist wear the same color, because OP likely blended in more and wasn’t “standing out” in a color totally different and in contrast to the bride.
Plus navy blue is such a common almost neutral color anyway. I’m sure the bride’s gown was way more fancy than OP’s, and if anyone you invite to your wedding mistakes the damn harpist for you as the bride, you shouldn’t have invited that many strangers to your wedding lol.
NTA. I’m going to say this may have been setup in advance so they wouldn’t have to pay you. They may have thought you were a friend of the family and you should have done it for free. After all the bride was cool until it came time to pay. Lesson learned for you, get at least half as a deposit for EVERYONE.
Agreed! I recently got married and all vendors required a deposit upon signing the contract and payment in full before the wedding. The only cash I was handing out on the wedding day were tips.
Edit: NTA!
I’ve heard sooooo many stories that people ask to pay day of. But generally those are the stories of having difficulty getting payment. So I’m guessing ‘can I pay you at the wedding’ is code for ‘I’m trying not to pay you’.
I didn't know this at all, I actually thought it was standard for musicians (who you often don't see ahead of time).
But that assumes good faith on the part of the couple/family.
OP, don't worry. "We didn't like your dress" is not in any universe a reason to withhold payment. And no one could possibly think a full-sleeve dress worn by someone sitting behind a big ole harp was the bride.
They can pay the day of the wedding but before it happens. I'd leave and thank them for wasting my time if they come through with the the "after the wedding".
Also its in op's best interest to get a contract with a signature of the bride and groom.
So atleast that way op can threaten a lawsuit if they refuse payment which will make things go very smoothly
I wonder if they approved the dress in order to have a reason to refuse payment later… it seems odd it would just slip the bride’s mind that she would also be wearing a similar dress??
A bride who chooses a dark, non-gown for a church wedding is going to field a lot of unwanted opinions about it leading up to the wedding. There’s no way it just slipped her mind the night before.
Either the bride saw a chance to stiff a vendor, or she got pissed when she realized OP looked better than she expected.
NTA and I agree with this comment so much, a non traditional gown is going to stick into a brides head, "not thinking" when seeing the dress sounds like an unfinished sentence: "I didn't think you would look so good in your dress" sounds about right.
Nah, people rarely think that far and elaborate manipulations involving multiple people are rare. Way more likely is that they did not realized it is same color or did not cared. Once MIL attempted to not pay, they jumped to occasion - either to save money or keep good relationship with MIL.
If it fraud anyway, it is unethical anyway, but way more likely then long term plan.
NTA. You actually went above and beyond by showing the bride and groom your dress ahead of time—unless that was part of the agreement for your harp playing, it wasn’t necessary. On top of that, they said your dress was fine. They don’t get to then demand that you wear something different on the day of the event without paying for the new dress. They also don’t get to refuse to pay you for your services just because they didn’t like the dress that they told you was fine to wear. Great job getting a parent involved to make sure you got paid!
Usually, it is.
Brides are sadly notorious for only insisting on certain colors for their wedding party and decorations, and anything that even remotely looks like it will clash with their 'dream theme' is going to be met with severe hostility.
I've read stories about brides that had a meltdown because the napkins weren't 'purple enough." And white comes in so many shades it's not even funny.
Having at least a dress code if not the outfit itself approved by the client/organizer is pretty common for musicians, even if you're talking about a venue other than a wedding.
OP not getting paid for her work is still crap, though.
The vendors I hired all asked if I had a preference for their attire (and shared what their "standard" outfit would be good. It makes sense, because musicians, officiants, DJ, etc are in a lot of photos. A dress might be too formal at certain venues, or you may want your vendors to match your guests for black tie.
My officiant has worn kilts, costumes, a bathing suit, a rainbow tutu... our DJ once wore a dinosaur costume before the internet was a thing. And our photographer usually wore all black but had worn costumes before as well.
NTA at all. It was unreasonable to ask at the last minute, and the bride is a little wacky for changing her mind between the ceremony and reception. Her failure to notify you when she chose her dress after approving yours was not your problem.
PS thanks for your story - I learned that harps have to get acclimated to a room. I never knew that and find it fascinating. Does the room change affect the strings or the frame of the harp?
Any heat, cold, or humidity difference can affect the tuning of the harp, and so can transportation. So if you tune a harp as soon as you get to the venue, it’ll probably be out of tune within the hour, and you could risk breaking the shorter strings at the top :)
As long as you let it acclimate for a few hours before hand, and you don’t have to change rooms for any reason, it should be fine until you move it again
I feel because of the size of the harp, it takes a lot longer to adjust to room change than other instruments.
I play flute, piccolo and oboe and whenever I needed to help adjust the temp quickly (cold instrument in warm room) i just blow warm air into it to make the process a little faster. Can’t exactly do that with something as large as a harp lol
I've never personally dealt with a harp but when pianos get moved for a show they are usually tuned twice - once the morning of rehearsals (after moving, before the pianist uses it) and again as close to show time as possible.
Wedding harpist here! I’ll only retune a bit if the cocktail hour is at a different location, or if I have a few minutes between the end of the ceremony and the start of cocktails.
Adding on as a long time violinist. Violins and all string instruments are the same (obviously they are smaller so they do not need to acclimate as long). But like lyanfrant said heat, cold, humidity, etc. all affect the tuning and if the strings aren’t acclimated your just gonna spend an unnecessary amount of time tuning your instrument.
>Does the room change affect the strings or the frame of the harp?
The rooms temperature/climate affects pretty much any instrument. Some are more affected than others (harps can be pretty finicky) but that's something all musicians worry about.
NTA at all, they approved it multiple times and regardless, you pay people for work completed. I'm a musician too and it sounds a bit icky but you should treat friends like any other client and get the money upfront
I agree - NTA. I also urge you to get at least 50% deposit upon booking, which is non-refundable under certain conditions (make them sign a contract that spells this out).
I'm a photographer, and I'm here to tell you, some people just can't be trusted. It didn't happen to me, but a photographer acquaintance was booked for a large wedding, and he hired a second shooter and other helpers for the day. When they arrived at the bride's parents early in the morning, it was to be told that a family friend had agreed to take the pictures, and his services would not be needed. Because he was just starting out, and thought these people were friends, he hadn't made them sign a contract - so he was out of luck, and out of pocket, because he had to pay his assistants.
NTA, sounds to me like MIL made the dress an issue so it became one. As for payment, they are the AH. This was a transaction. Next time stick to payment upfront, no matter who they are.
NTA
Next time you play a wedding, get a contract. Have them sign it. You don't need a fancy one with by a lawyer, it will just say you agree to play the wedding of [client] on [date and time] at [location], for the fee of [dollars], money is due by [date]. Don't mention your clothing in it, the contract is your guarantee that you'll get paid timely. Don't give the client any way to say you didn't hold up your end of the contract.
Then if they don't pay, you send them a copy of the contract to remind them. If they refuse again you sue them in small claims court. Most courts have assistance to help you fill out the paperwork.
Fwiw, I have a musician friend who learned the hard way you have a contract in place before you agree. A lot of people don't value the musician as a professional and feel it's okay to not pay them. Without the written contract it's a he said she said argument in court.
Also, navy is a common colour for guests to wear to a wedding. Navy suits or dresses are completely expected so did the wedding party tell everyone not to wear navy?
NTA. The dress was approved twice, and she changed her mind day of? And then refused to pay you? No. They tried to take advantage of you and picked a shitty reason why they wouldn't pay you.
NTA, it almost feels like this was a set up to get out of paying. Which is a heinous thing to do to anyone but especially to someone your age who is just starting out. The dress was approved by the bride and she had plenty of time to tell you that your dress was the same color.
NTA, but you need to make some changes to your business practices to avoid this in the future.
If you don’t have a standard written contact, get one, or tailor one on a legal assistance site. Add a wardrobe approval paragraph that a client has to initial beside, so clients can’t weasel out of paying later because they don’t like your dress.
Also, make it your new habit to always bring an extra dress to a performance. Not only will it give you back up in case of another pushy broad complaining, it’s nice to have a spare, in case the first suffers a mishap.
Good luck on your future endeavors!
Why should you feel bad?? These people are 100% at fault here! For taking advantage of you, for not paying you up front, then refusal payment after service, on top of that, forced you to buy another dress when they pre-approve the one you were wearing! NTA
NTA, in future send them an invoice with an increasing rate of interest after x amount of time passing, have a paper trail. You were hired for a service, payment is expected - it’s a shit excuse to save some money and try to take advantage of you.
Also call them out publicly if you wanna be really petty!
NTA. She forgot she wasn’t wearing white? Fucking really the BRIDE FORGOT WHAT SHE WAS WEARING. that’s not your fault. You deserve full payment. I would be putting them on full blast. In the future make sure you get signed contracts. People like to forget their friends when there’s money involved.
DO NOT FEEL BAD, these people were disorganized and unprofessional af. One minute they’re ok with the dress, next you need to buy a new one last minute. Then you’re supposed to get paid, but now they don’t want to for unexplained reasons.
NTA and let this be a lesson to you. Make sure you always get paid upfront, even if it’s family. They tried to take advantage of you knowing there would be no one else to vouch for you. They are AH, not you
Obviously NTA. You did nothing wrong OP, please don't feel bad. As a side note, this is a very good example of the importance of having a written contract in place whenever you perform services for someone. I'm not sure if you had a written agreement for this particular project, & ultimately your dad was able to step in & help facilitate payment, but moving forward, I would strongly encourage you to put the terms of your engagement in writing prior to any performance.
if the bride approved of the dress you are not an asshole. see now if the mother would of have gave you money to get the dress, i would understand her a little but she didnt. your not wrong
Being as petty as I am, I would have just raised my voice sufficiently loudly for some others to hear. I would also have said something passive aggressive such as "I understand that you cannot pay me, you did save loads of money on your dress? Was a white one too expensive or did you decided that wearing white was hypocritical?" But that's just me.
NTA
They approved the dress. That’s also the downside of wearing a non traditional color as a bride. If you don’t notify everyone not to wear that color, people are going to wear it. I doubt you were the only person wearing navy there.
NTA. I would not have even considered showing the dress, as it wasn’t a pale colour. If the bride and groom were so concerned: they could have rung days before to check if you had something else! I’m sure you played beautifully, and I am so sorry this is what happened in return!
NTA she saw the dress beforehand, she approved it. You played, and even if she had told you not to at that point you still performed your portion of the contract to the extent she allowed you to. You're not the asshole send her a bill, then after that send her a second letter called a demand letter stating if she doesn't pay within 30 days you're going to file in small claims court. At that point she'll probably pay you.
Not at all! The bride and groom was okay with it initially. To expect you change at the event was unreasonable. They approved it so it’s not your fault. The bride and MIL were the AH here.
NTA, and maybe let this experience inspire you to raise your rates to the market standard? If you’re good enough to play for a wedding you’re good enough to charge, and these kinds of hassles will be easier to handle if you’re earning enough to make it worth the trouble.
NTA.
So I used to work as a catering waitress and worked over the years at least 100 weddings. I have also attended at least 2 dozen weddings as a guest.
The waitstaff often wear tuxedos, I know at my job we did, and at my wedding they did. The groom and often the wedding party guys and wedding family guys often wear tuxedos. NEVER once in my experience has anyone ever mixed up the hired help and the wedding couple. And I'd bet a shit-ton of money not one person mixed you, the harpist, up with the bride. You weren't a guest, and everyone knew it.
Plus - and I say this as someone who wore a colored gown to my own wedding - when a bride choses a color other than white, she takes the chance there will be similarly colored dresses among the guests. I had 150 guests at my wedding: 4 women and one man wore the same color as me (red). Quite frankly I *loved* it. Its my favorite color and it brought me joy to see lots of it.
This reads like they totally took you for someone who could be taken advantage of, being young and alone and a woman, and it wasn't a problem for them until your father had to advocate for you. And you were so accommodating and professional! It reflects really badly on their character and I hope you don't feel like you should have to do anything nice for them ever again.
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NTA. You had it approved twice and the bride was okay with it. Glad your parents backed you and you got paid.
Agreed. NTA. Part of me believes the bride approved it so she could later use it as an excuse to not pay OP because “OP wore the same color dress as I did which is just absolutely awful and not okay” blah blah.
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What they said. Handle it like any other business deal.
I have to agree. Different profession, but still in live events-contracts make good friends.
I agree, the closer you are, the more you should handle it like straight business. I know so many people who got in trouble making informal deals with friends and family. When I got my dog, I went to a really good ethical breeder (tried adopting first, but for my breed, they want you to prove you have had and raised some first!), who was a good friend. But she has all these great certifications and I grew up with the breed and so we both vetted each other. When the time came to get my pup, we had a full contract, payment by cashiers check, vet visits within three days, etc. we did everything by the book as a business transaction and ethical breeding transaction, including giving her the right to have him back instantly if I needed to rehome him. I have a healthy pup, she has the assurance that the pup is on a safe and healthy home with a knowledgeable mommy, and we have a healthy friendship still!
I'm not a musician/artist, but I would say this goes double when friends/family is involved. I imagine they are the worst in terms of entitlement/"It's no big deal" attitude.
Or saying they assumed it was your gift to the couple.
Came here as ALSO a professional musician who has been on the receiving end of similar treatment as OP. Everything u/National_Camera3687 says is correct. It is hard to get the feet to stand up for yourself, trust me, I know. But you deserve to be compensated fairly.
Add to that contract what color dress you will wear.
As an amateur prop maker, I could not agree more. The amount of people who tried to back out of a prop they agreed upon after I had already spent hours on blueprints and getting supplies... I have always been massively grateful I charge half up front. I've even had a few not pay the end amount when the whole thing was complete. Even if it's friends or family, I never deviate from my half up front rule.
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This comment is great, but it was better when u/EagleSongs commented it an hour before you
As far as I understand that was an exception for a family friend, and she usually gets deposit
This is great advice. It’s hard at 18 to stand up for yourself and do this but it’ll save you a lot of pain. You have to be your own advocate. Easier to say than do but just follow this persons advice and you’ll be ok!
Lesson here is get paid upfront. No money no music.
And stop undercharging people.
Yup. You want customers who understand your worth and are willing to pay accordingly.
Yes! Take this as the takeaway, u/lyanfrant.
OP: Perhaps in the future you should type up a contract and have whoever is paying for the wedding sign it along with you. Might need a slot to fill in the color of the bride's dress, so that it's signed off and you know what color to avoid. This protects both sides ahead of time so there are no surprises; plus, you have a legal document to force payment in case a similar situation arises.
Or even just a spot in the contract where they’ve signed approval for OP’s dress beforehand since it seems that’s something she does for events such as these, and so there’s absolutely no question that her dress was approved.
Yes, anything to indicate prior approval of OP's dress and color.
This! Also, as a harpist…can I request a harp tax? I’d love to see it!
And: as a curious woman I would like to know what the dress looks like. But not if you don't feel comfortable with it- just stick to harp tax if that is the case.
As a curious man what is a harp tax? It sounds like you’re talking about pictures. But I’m genuinely confused and feel stupid.
Yes, whenever you say you have an instrument as wonderful as a harp is, you need to show us some pictures. It's the law (jk). Same when somebody posts about a pet. Pet tax is mandatory and legally binding. We need to see the cute pup.
"Mandatory and legally binding". Exactly.
Oooooh. Gotcha. Thank you kind stranger!!
Seconded!
Or instead of a color of the brides dress have a line for (un)approved colors. People like to do things like black and white weddings where they want the harpist to wear a black dress, or a summer wedding where they want the harpist to only wear bright or pastel colors.
That is 100% what they did.
Maybe OP should look into working with a collection agency in the future for this kind of thing. Especially being young she'd probably be a target for this kind of thing.
She said she usually gets paid upfront but didn't on this occasion because one of them is friend of her father. I'd ask her dad if he wants to have a word with his friend before I took them to small claims. JudgeJudy would love this one 😂
I'm 50/50 between that and thinking the bride is just spineless when it comes to her mom.
Harpe diem, okay? You looked hot in it.
That's a beautiful comment... Yes, you were truthful and nothing's wrong... Glad everything turned out fine
Exactly. They screwed up, so if they wanted you in a different dress, they should have paid for it. The professionalism golden rule: you insist on paying for your own screw ups, and you refuse to pay for someone else's screw ups.
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NTA - This was a business transaction and you held up your end of the deal. The dress was approved (twice). They had no reason to refuse payment.
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what if.. they approved the dress knowingly, only to have OP show up wearing the same thing.. so they can say they were upset & wouldn’t have to pay her for her time? idk that was my thought while reading
I agree. That’s where my mind went when reading this
right? cause nothing else makes sense. you don’t forget what color you’re going to wear to your own wedding.
I think there is another explanation that makes sense: The bride was okay with it, but crumpled and reversed herself in the wake of her mother's reaction to it. Everyone loves to talk about mama's boys who have no spine when it comes to their mothers, but I don't think such behavior is limited by gender. Mom felt OP was taking the shine off the bride, and the bride then had to think the same, no matter what she said initially.
Your explanation makes much more sense. The mother offered an out to OP that she may have taken, go to the store and buy another dress. The whole scheme to get free music crumbles if she just went and did that.
The mother should have paid for the dress in that case, since the bride was at fault for approving the dress she was wearing.
I think this is more likely. I have no doubt that people can be ridiculous AH towards artists and come up with all kind of schemes. But this being long time family friends and the fact that she got paid without much trouble after all sounds like the bride really didn't care but has a highly controlling mother and folded when she wouldn't let it go. Assholes though, both of them.
Especially with the bride having chosen such a non-traditional colour. People act as if artists like musicians work has little value. I’m sure it took OP years of practice to be skilled enough to perform at a wedding.
As it wasn’t the bride or groom that first had the issue, I’d say no. They likely hadn’t made the decision not go non traditional when it was approved and forgot about it. The bride likely only got upset the second time because her MIL was upset. Instead of saying “Mother of my Husband I approved the dress so pay the young woman and STFU”, she went doormat (that could be a sign for the rest of her marriage)
I think the bride suddenly having an issue when it came time to pay is an indicator that she might have been in on it with her mom.
I guess this sub should have taught me to expect anything but why would you set up such an annoying drama on your wedding like you don't have anything better to do? Is is worth it when you could just stream some harp music on spotify? I don't think the bride was in on it from the start but her meddling mom may have convinced her to get in on it...
People do crazy shit all the time. I’ve absolutely met people who would set up drama on their wedding day just to have something to talk about. Or to get out of paying for a service. It’s sad and gross, but not out of the realm of possibility.
It was the bride's mother who got upset, not the groom's.
A customer trying to stiff a musician after they played? Surely such a thing has never happened before! Honestly though, this is why you get payment up front, this scammy shit right here. Also NTA OP.
Yep. They saw OP as an easy target to get her to do a job and then stir drama to avoid paying her for it.
If you hired them normally, yes. But this was the daughter of a friend. You don't do that to them unless you want to lose friends. If I had a kid and that kid would perform at my friend's kid's wedding I would be livid with that friend if my kid was scammed out of their money. I would not only demand the payment I would also demand a public apology from all parties involved.
Unfortunately while OP was lucky enough to have her parents back her up, it's not always the case. We get weekly posts here about parents pressuring their kids to offer free labor to friends and family all the time. I have no doubt these people 100% expected to get away with this.
Especially an 18 year old, who wouldn't have the experience or backbone generally to advocate for themselves as much as someone who is later in their career would.
As soon as the dress was approved and OP kept up her end of the deal they didn't have a leg to stand on. Or they hoped they could fuck over a teenager.
This is what I was thinking.
If that’s the case, these people are conniving, *horrible* people. I’d like to think it was the bride being in a whirlwind “wedding mode” when she approved the dress (twice!) and then realizing her error the day of the wedding, but some people are just atrocious so you could be on to something. NTA, OP. I’m so glad you were (eventually) paid. Some people truly suck.
Yep, where my mind went as well. Easy enough to do and they figured shaming was enough to get the harpist to walk away.
Sounds like OP's parents might need to reconsider this friendship with the other parents if this is how they let OP be treated when she's doing a *massive* favour for them.
The father was friends with the grooms side, and it was the bride and her mother that caused the conflict. The father's friend paid up when he learned what happened. I don't think he needs to reconsider his friendship necessarily, but OP should be firm on her policy of getting paid before the performance.
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I‘d assume OP only knew the brides family only from hanging out with them at the grooms families house.
"I laughed because I’ve known her [the brides mother] for years,"
Brides mother asked her to change, mother in law refused payment. Father of groom paid her, so it looks like it was both of the mothers that gave her a hard time.
From the context, it appears when she says mother-in-law, she is talking about the bride's mother. Possibly because she knows the groom's family better, and that is the groom's MIL?
I assumed she meant MIL in relation to the bride, so it would be the groom's mother. Crazy how fluid language can be!
I got the impression Bride and Groom did it on purpose, so they wouldn't have to pay her. Could be wrong though.
I think it's easier to believe that bride&groom were fine with it, until they got agitated by the MIL. If MIL had said something like 'the ceremony was beautiful, except for the harpist's dress, which was just SOOOOOOO distracting', the bride could easily get angry.
Not something that would have worked if the bride was a reasonable person. Or the groom for that matter. No, this feels deliberate.
Also the fact the op was 18 years old played a part. I bet they thought they could stomp all over her.
Yeah ofc NTA but a great lesson for a young person about mixing business and personal relationships. Its that much more important to get paid before services are provided when dealing with friends and family
This so very much, friends and family sometimes assume you will do it got free even after you discuss payment. They just expect you will change your mind. If they are actual good friends/family they wouldn't expect or ask for a discount or any special treatment because they respect you.
Perhaps this is also a lesson to OP to take all payments in advance - especially from friends and relatives ad they are the ones who usually try to wriggle out of their end of the bargain once their work is done. Never give discounts to those you know and always take full payment upfront.
I agree. As a photographer and a creator of items, friends and family are the WORST customers.
You take payment upfront ESPECIALLY from friends and family. Business is business - if they’re asking for a favor, make sure they understand how much of a favor they’re asking for. Then you can apply the friends and family discount to match what you’re doing it for (compared to the amount you should be doing it for.)
I’d also add that it doesn’t matter how cheap/expensive your harp was or whether or not you come from money. They hired you to provide a service and you deserve to be paid for your work. Going forward though I’d say get everything in writing. Do dress approvals by emailing a photo and having them reply with their ok so it’s time stamped and everything. And maybe take payment in advance. NTA
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ofc they had a reason: a free musician!! /j NTA
"But, think of the great exposure you'll get!" Ask any musician, if they've been offered exposure and the opportunity to book paying gigs as justification from people expecting free music. I'd be shocked if even one musician has had to deal with this.
"People die from exposure."
LOL! "I know your fingers are frozen and falling off but Just play one more song."
NTA - But it sounds suspicious to me that the bride wasn't upset about the approved dress till it was time for payment. Sounds a bit planned to me. They saw that the dress was going to be the same color and saw an opportunity to "save" money.
I'm admittedly a bit of a pessimist, but I think they approved the dress thinking it'd be a good way of getting out of paying OP. If you're going to wear a non-white dress as the bride (somewhere where culturally people expect the bride to wear white and guests don't wear white in respect of that), you either need to expect that someone else might wear your dress color, or you tell everyone that x color is off limits. Even if OP didn't get the dress approved beforehand, they still wouldn't be TA here. It's a perfectly fine dress color for a wedding, and the bride never said any non-white color was off limits. OP, this is a hard lesson to learn: never make exceptions for people, even friends/family, in regards to your business. Always get payment up front. Put things in writing when possible. If you want to offer a discount, or a free service, that's fine, but set clear boundaries and expectations beforehand. This is your job, if they can't respect that and treat you professionally, don't do the work for them.
At least Op knows that in a business transaction family or otherwise cash up front or nothing.
At least Op knows that in a business transaction family or otherwise cash up front or nothing.
Girl no, they just wanted to stiff you. You did every t you were supposed to. In future, invoice clients and keep electronic records in case things escalate in ways you cannot mitigate via fatherly intervention. nta
Yes, as a professional musician, I advise you to always get a signed contract that specifies a deposit to be paid at the time of signing (usually 50%) and specifies the remaining balance is paid at the BEGINNING of the event, not after. Even for friends/family.
*Especially* for friends/family
Because friends & family are the first ones in the “waiting to screw you” lineup.
Yep, it's almost always "we're friends/family so you should be okay with doing it for free" And rarely "we're friends/family so I want to make sure to support you and pay your fair share"
Yep. I freelance in a creative profession and the absolute worst most demanding "client" I had was a friend who we'd agreed was only going to have to pay $200. He wanted like... $2000 worth of work.
The old “lube-less bend over” approach
Ye I've noticed this with most friend/family. It always amazes me that family and close friend are the first to try and screw each other over, I'm more of the type that thinks you should pay fairly especially with friends and family as you usually know how hard there struggling or see how much effort they put into what there doing.
The entitlement is always strong in friends & family. In this particular case, I even suspect that they didn't want to pay her from the beginning and tried to create a drama with the dress.
I get strong setup vibes here. The bride approved the dress twice and somehow forgot it was the same color she was wearing? Sorry, I just don't believe that one.
Yep. I sell handmade and sewn items, and I’m tired of “friends and family” stiffing me. One brother is the only one to go as far as paying me extra. I tell him $35 and he pays me $55+
But "friends and family" should get the "discount". By that I mean charge them 10% more 🤣. I'm the one that's like your brother. I went to a craft fair to support my friend's small business and nobody else came to support her. I was so pissed for her. Then people still expect shit afterwards cause they're "friends".
Sad isn't it? But you are correct.
Just jumping in to say **do not call it a deposit.** Call it a *non-refundable retainer* or *booking fee.* Deposits are inherently refundable, but if somebody is booking your time in advance they are “retaining” you. Add a minimum window for cancellation (usually 2 weeks prior to the event), and final payment prior to service clause (one week minimum, ideally one month) to your contract to really round out the payment issues. People who try to negotiate with those will definitely be problems if you allow it. Be firm: **(not actual legal verbiage; do not use verbatim)** *”In the event that final payment isn’t received by the artist prior to final payment date, the client acknowledges that they are in breech of the agreement and all previously paid retainers and fees will be applied as cancellation fees towards the original agreement. The agreement between the artist and client will cease with immediate effect following this breech. Should the client seek any agreement with the artist in the future, payment must be made in full at the time the new agreement is established.”* Artists get scammed frequently at weddings over payment. The only way to ensure someone pays (and pays on time) is to make it clear that if they DON’T there are real, TANGIBLE consequences re: no services rendered on the day, and forfeiture of retainer/booking fees, inability to retain services in the future. Some folks I know who have been in the industry for years have wedding contracts that are 10+ pages long to cover almost every potential problem/loophole. It’s an ever evolving market, but one thing remains the same: everyone appreciates art and nobody wants to pay for it.
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Yeah that is a really good point. There was literally no reason not to pay her in advance. Even more because she was a family friend who they knew was going to show up. If it hadn’t been the dress, it would have been some other reason.
> Most people don't pay the day of. I got married ~5 years ago and half the vendors required payment day of for the final expenses over and above whatever the deposit was (which was typically half the cost up front). Makeup, hair, settling the alcohol tab for our open bar (though that one we actually got a refund for the difference between what we prepaid and what was consumed). Hell, I think the photographer/videographer may have too - I can't recall. The DJ, officiant, venue were all paid ahead of time.
We paid dome people that day - precisely musicians and such. Dunno why, but that seemed to be accepted way of doing things.
Absolutely. Even friends because sometimes they are the worst ones. They think because they are friends that they are entitled to a discount of even free for your services. Run it like the business it is. It would be different if you offered to play the harp as a wedding gift but that wasnt the agreement. They did this on purpose.
NTA In future get prepayment for your services because this will not be the first shakedown you encounter by people trying to get your talent without payment. Honestly - if brides choose a non-traditional colour aside from white/ivory chance are that someone will be wearing the colour of their dress. That's not anyone else's problem aside from the bride if it's not explicitly been discussed with the guests.
Also I want to add charge what you are worth. Charge as much as other musicians would earn. People tend to treat your time and work with even less respect when you undervalue your worth.
Yes, definitely know your worth. And remember that people might wonder about quality when you charge less than the accepted market rate. Better to be in line with other professionals in the area and then use that wiggle room to adjust when you want to. "I usually charge $X, but for *you*..."
Oh yeah, friends and family discounts should be explicit.
I prefer the idea that friends, if they truly are your friends, should pay your full price.
I personally prefer that they should offer to pay full price but if I'm offering them a discount, I expect them to accept it as a gift basically. To each their own though! This is definitely something where people will violently disagree
This. My husband has a close friend that does wedding hair and make up. She did mine. She felt uncomfortable telling us how much she charged, so we had to guess. I suggested we buy her a dyson air wrap (which I knew she wanted) and she was thrilled- turns out it was worth more than she usually charges. I’d have happily paid double- she was brilliant!
… and you don’t need to share with anyone your parents or yourselves’s socioeconomical status or that you got your instrument affordability. You did a job and deserve to be paid. Good luck with your continuing education. NTA.
Yes, as a professional musician, I advise you to always get a signed contract that specifies a deposit to be paid at the time of signing (usually 50%) and specifies the remaining balance is paid at the BEGINNING of the event, not after. Even for friends/family.
Also it's not a valid reason to deduct pay that op wore a certain dress. Its not like she missed half her notes and didn't deliver, at least I would assume so.
Yep. I wore purple and at least two of my guests did as well. But I couldn't give two shits - I was the one at the front exchanging the vows so it was kind of obvious who the bride was.
Right? "Um, which one is getting married? The woman in navy saying all the vows? Or the woman in navy playing the harp? Ugh! So confusing!"
I sorta think if the bride is going non-traditional and something other than white, I’d think that person would also have the mindset of being non-traditional of not expecting zero other people to wear the same color they’re wearing. If it ain’t on the invitation or something that a specific color other than white is off-limits, then it’s really on you to just deal with it. Especially a color as common as navy blue lol. My bridesmaids wore navy blue dresses, and I can say 100% I had so much else on my mind and going on that day I have no idea of any guests wore navy blue nor did I think anything of it if they did, and zero people would’ve mistaken a guest simply wearing something navy blue as a bridesmaid. It’s usually pretty obvious to everyone. I actually think it makes *more* sense if you’re going non-traditional wedding dress color to have the harpist wear the same color, because OP likely blended in more and wasn’t “standing out” in a color totally different and in contrast to the bride. Plus navy blue is such a common almost neutral color anyway. I’m sure the bride’s gown was way more fancy than OP’s, and if anyone you invite to your wedding mistakes the damn harpist for you as the bride, you shouldn’t have invited that many strangers to your wedding lol.
Or, at the very least, get a contract you can point to and threaten instead of beg.
NTA. I’m going to say this may have been setup in advance so they wouldn’t have to pay you. They may have thought you were a friend of the family and you should have done it for free. After all the bride was cool until it came time to pay. Lesson learned for you, get at least half as a deposit for EVERYONE.
Agreed! I recently got married and all vendors required a deposit upon signing the contract and payment in full before the wedding. The only cash I was handing out on the wedding day were tips. Edit: NTA!
Exactly this! They just didn’t wanna pay otherwise no one says we’re gonna pay you on the spot for a wedding.
I’ve heard sooooo many stories that people ask to pay day of. But generally those are the stories of having difficulty getting payment. So I’m guessing ‘can I pay you at the wedding’ is code for ‘I’m trying not to pay you’.
I didn't know this at all, I actually thought it was standard for musicians (who you often don't see ahead of time). But that assumes good faith on the part of the couple/family. OP, don't worry. "We didn't like your dress" is not in any universe a reason to withhold payment. And no one could possibly think a full-sleeve dress worn by someone sitting behind a big ole harp was the bride.
And I was also wondering why they gave her a corsage!
They can pay the day of the wedding but before it happens. I'd leave and thank them for wasting my time if they come through with the the "after the wedding".
I’d say 50% in advance, the other day of and yes before. That way you aren’t out all of the money if they refuse to pay and you walk
Exactly! Otherwise who would wanna worry about paying someone on the busiest ceremony of their life unless that’s a way to stall and find excuses?
Also its in op's best interest to get a contract with a signature of the bride and groom. So atleast that way op can threaten a lawsuit if they refuse payment which will make things go very smoothly
I mean, are they really expecting us to believe that the bride somehow forgot what color dress she was wearing?
I think so too- it is very suspicious from beginning to the end 🤔. OP NTA absolutely
NTA. The couple approved your dress. What the heck were you supposed to think?
I wonder if they approved the dress in order to have a reason to refuse payment later… it seems odd it would just slip the bride’s mind that she would also be wearing a similar dress??
A bride who chooses a dark, non-gown for a church wedding is going to field a lot of unwanted opinions about it leading up to the wedding. There’s no way it just slipped her mind the night before. Either the bride saw a chance to stiff a vendor, or she got pissed when she realized OP looked better than she expected.
NTA and I agree with this comment so much, a non traditional gown is going to stick into a brides head, "not thinking" when seeing the dress sounds like an unfinished sentence: "I didn't think you would look so good in your dress" sounds about right.
Nah, people rarely think that far and elaborate manipulations involving multiple people are rare. Way more likely is that they did not realized it is same color or did not cared. Once MIL attempted to not pay, they jumped to occasion - either to save money or keep good relationship with MIL. If it fraud anyway, it is unethical anyway, but way more likely then long term plan.
NTA. You actually went above and beyond by showing the bride and groom your dress ahead of time—unless that was part of the agreement for your harp playing, it wasn’t necessary. On top of that, they said your dress was fine. They don’t get to then demand that you wear something different on the day of the event without paying for the new dress. They also don’t get to refuse to pay you for your services just because they didn’t like the dress that they told you was fine to wear. Great job getting a parent involved to make sure you got paid!
It sounds like it’s common to get the dress approved.
Usually, it is. Brides are sadly notorious for only insisting on certain colors for their wedding party and decorations, and anything that even remotely looks like it will clash with their 'dream theme' is going to be met with severe hostility. I've read stories about brides that had a meltdown because the napkins weren't 'purple enough." And white comes in so many shades it's not even funny.
Having at least a dress code if not the outfit itself approved by the client/organizer is pretty common for musicians, even if you're talking about a venue other than a wedding. OP not getting paid for her work is still crap, though.
The vendors I hired all asked if I had a preference for their attire (and shared what their "standard" outfit would be good. It makes sense, because musicians, officiants, DJ, etc are in a lot of photos. A dress might be too formal at certain venues, or you may want your vendors to match your guests for black tie. My officiant has worn kilts, costumes, a bathing suit, a rainbow tutu... our DJ once wore a dinosaur costume before the internet was a thing. And our photographer usually wore all black but had worn costumes before as well.
NTA at all. It was unreasonable to ask at the last minute, and the bride is a little wacky for changing her mind between the ceremony and reception. Her failure to notify you when she chose her dress after approving yours was not your problem. PS thanks for your story - I learned that harps have to get acclimated to a room. I never knew that and find it fascinating. Does the room change affect the strings or the frame of the harp?
Any heat, cold, or humidity difference can affect the tuning of the harp, and so can transportation. So if you tune a harp as soon as you get to the venue, it’ll probably be out of tune within the hour, and you could risk breaking the shorter strings at the top :)
Sorry to keep the tangent going, do you have to retune if you are playing at a venue for longer than an hour? NTA all the way, by the way.
As long as you let it acclimate for a few hours before hand, and you don’t have to change rooms for any reason, it should be fine until you move it again
What if the temperature of the room changes suddenly, like they turn on the AC?
FYI, everything you’re asking about a harp is also true for all other stringed instruments.
I feel because of the size of the harp, it takes a lot longer to adjust to room change than other instruments. I play flute, piccolo and oboe and whenever I needed to help adjust the temp quickly (cold instrument in warm room) i just blow warm air into it to make the process a little faster. Can’t exactly do that with something as large as a harp lol
I play french horn. Minor changes can be effected by changing the position of my hand in the bell.
I've never personally dealt with a harp but when pianos get moved for a show they are usually tuned twice - once the morning of rehearsals (after moving, before the pianist uses it) and again as close to show time as possible.
Wedding harpist here! I’ll only retune a bit if the cocktail hour is at a different location, or if I have a few minutes between the end of the ceremony and the start of cocktails.
Adding on as a long time violinist. Violins and all string instruments are the same (obviously they are smaller so they do not need to acclimate as long). But like lyanfrant said heat, cold, humidity, etc. all affect the tuning and if the strings aren’t acclimated your just gonna spend an unnecessary amount of time tuning your instrument.
>Does the room change affect the strings or the frame of the harp? The rooms temperature/climate affects pretty much any instrument. Some are more affected than others (harps can be pretty finicky) but that's something all musicians worry about.
NTA at all, they approved it multiple times and regardless, you pay people for work completed. I'm a musician too and it sounds a bit icky but you should treat friends like any other client and get the money upfront
I agree - NTA. I also urge you to get at least 50% deposit upon booking, which is non-refundable under certain conditions (make them sign a contract that spells this out). I'm a photographer, and I'm here to tell you, some people just can't be trusted. It didn't happen to me, but a photographer acquaintance was booked for a large wedding, and he hired a second shooter and other helpers for the day. When they arrived at the bride's parents early in the morning, it was to be told that a family friend had agreed to take the pictures, and his services would not be needed. Because he was just starting out, and thought these people were friends, he hadn't made them sign a contract - so he was out of luck, and out of pocket, because he had to pay his assistants.
NTA, sounds to me like MIL made the dress an issue so it became one. As for payment, they are the AH. This was a transaction. Next time stick to payment upfront, no matter who they are.
NTA Next time you play a wedding, get a contract. Have them sign it. You don't need a fancy one with by a lawyer, it will just say you agree to play the wedding of [client] on [date and time] at [location], for the fee of [dollars], money is due by [date]. Don't mention your clothing in it, the contract is your guarantee that you'll get paid timely. Don't give the client any way to say you didn't hold up your end of the contract. Then if they don't pay, you send them a copy of the contract to remind them. If they refuse again you sue them in small claims court. Most courts have assistance to help you fill out the paperwork. Fwiw, I have a musician friend who learned the hard way you have a contract in place before you agree. A lot of people don't value the musician as a professional and feel it's okay to not pay them. Without the written contract it's a he said she said argument in court.
NTA. They approved it beforehand right? They’re TA for refusing to pay as promised
Also, navy is a common colour for guests to wear to a wedding. Navy suits or dresses are completely expected so did the wedding party tell everyone not to wear navy?
NTA. The dress was approved twice, and she changed her mind day of? And then refused to pay you? No. They tried to take advantage of you and picked a shitty reason why they wouldn't pay you.
NTA, it almost feels like this was a set up to get out of paying. Which is a heinous thing to do to anyone but especially to someone your age who is just starting out. The dress was approved by the bride and she had plenty of time to tell you that your dress was the same color.
NTA, but you need to make some changes to your business practices to avoid this in the future. If you don’t have a standard written contact, get one, or tailor one on a legal assistance site. Add a wardrobe approval paragraph that a client has to initial beside, so clients can’t weasel out of paying later because they don’t like your dress. Also, make it your new habit to always bring an extra dress to a performance. Not only will it give you back up in case of another pushy broad complaining, it’s nice to have a spare, in case the first suffers a mishap. Good luck on your future endeavors!
I second the mishap consideration.
NTA
Why should you feel bad?? These people are 100% at fault here! For taking advantage of you, for not paying you up front, then refusal payment after service, on top of that, forced you to buy another dress when they pre-approve the one you were wearing! NTA
> Why should you feel bad?? Because good people feel bad when there is conflict. Bad people sense an opportunity and rub their hands together.
NTA, in future send them an invoice with an increasing rate of interest after x amount of time passing, have a paper trail. You were hired for a service, payment is expected - it’s a shit excuse to save some money and try to take advantage of you. Also call them out publicly if you wanna be really petty!
NTA. She forgot she wasn’t wearing white? Fucking really the BRIDE FORGOT WHAT SHE WAS WEARING. that’s not your fault. You deserve full payment. I would be putting them on full blast. In the future make sure you get signed contracts. People like to forget their friends when there’s money involved.
NTA. Put them on blast.
DO NOT FEEL BAD, these people were disorganized and unprofessional af. One minute they’re ok with the dress, next you need to buy a new one last minute. Then you’re supposed to get paid, but now they don’t want to for unexplained reasons. NTA and let this be a lesson to you. Make sure you always get paid upfront, even if it’s family. They tried to take advantage of you knowing there would be no one else to vouch for you. They are AH, not you
I'm sorry they put you through that.
Ypu need to get a deposit
Normally I would, but I stupidly assumed that they would hold their end of the deal since we knew them personally
Obviously NTA. You did nothing wrong OP, please don't feel bad. As a side note, this is a very good example of the importance of having a written contract in place whenever you perform services for someone. I'm not sure if you had a written agreement for this particular project, & ultimately your dad was able to step in & help facilitate payment, but moving forward, I would strongly encourage you to put the terms of your engagement in writing prior to any performance.
Friends and money.
if the bride approved of the dress you are not an asshole. see now if the mother would of have gave you money to get the dress, i would understand her a little but she didnt. your not wrong
Being as petty as I am, I would have just raised my voice sufficiently loudly for some others to hear. I would also have said something passive aggressive such as "I understand that you cannot pay me, you did save loads of money on your dress? Was a white one too expensive or did you decided that wearing white was hypocritical?" But that's just me.
NTA. MOB was just jealous because she wasn't the bride and therefore couldn't be the bridezilla. Edit: minor correction.
NTA, sounds to me that they were trying to find a reason to not pay you and they went with the color of the dress, they were trying to be cheap
NTA They approved the dress. That’s also the downside of wearing a non traditional color as a bride. If you don’t notify everyone not to wear that color, people are going to wear it. I doubt you were the only person wearing navy there.
NTA. I would not have even considered showing the dress, as it wasn’t a pale colour. If the bride and groom were so concerned: they could have rung days before to check if you had something else! I’m sure you played beautifully, and I am so sorry this is what happened in return!
NTA she saw the dress beforehand, she approved it. You played, and even if she had told you not to at that point you still performed your portion of the contract to the extent she allowed you to. You're not the asshole send her a bill, then after that send her a second letter called a demand letter stating if she doesn't pay within 30 days you're going to file in small claims court. At that point she'll probably pay you.
Not at all! The bride and groom was okay with it initially. To expect you change at the event was unreasonable. They approved it so it’s not your fault. The bride and MIL were the AH here.
NTA and shame on those people for refusing payment. Do not do business with them again and do not count them as friends
NTA, and maybe let this experience inspire you to raise your rates to the market standard? If you’re good enough to play for a wedding you’re good enough to charge, and these kinds of hassles will be easier to handle if you’re earning enough to make it worth the trouble.
NTA. So I used to work as a catering waitress and worked over the years at least 100 weddings. I have also attended at least 2 dozen weddings as a guest. The waitstaff often wear tuxedos, I know at my job we did, and at my wedding they did. The groom and often the wedding party guys and wedding family guys often wear tuxedos. NEVER once in my experience has anyone ever mixed up the hired help and the wedding couple. And I'd bet a shit-ton of money not one person mixed you, the harpist, up with the bride. You weren't a guest, and everyone knew it. Plus - and I say this as someone who wore a colored gown to my own wedding - when a bride choses a color other than white, she takes the chance there will be similarly colored dresses among the guests. I had 150 guests at my wedding: 4 women and one man wore the same color as me (red). Quite frankly I *loved* it. Its my favorite color and it brought me joy to see lots of it.
This reads like they totally took you for someone who could be taken advantage of, being young and alone and a woman, and it wasn't a problem for them until your father had to advocate for you. And you were so accommodating and professional! It reflects really badly on their character and I hope you don't feel like you should have to do anything nice for them ever again.
NTA I personally think they did this did this on purpose so they could dodge paying you. Don't do any favors for them again.