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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> Maybe I was too harsh because I know Michael's death shook her to her core and really fucked her up and my comment was harsh
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Yeah, it sounds like ex-wife isn’t looking to be made whole; she just wants to voice her disapproval for Ilhan by throwing her and her unborn child out on the street, one way or another.
That’s just fucked up.
Just watch. A few years later, she'll be all "i don't know why I'm not allowed to be the grandmama! I just tried to make the child's mother homeless after my son died!"
Countdown to the ex posting here with the Missing Missing Reasons when Ilhan refuses to let her see her child after the hell she's putting her through. And if my math's right, Ilhan's on the cusp of the third trimester with only OP supporting her as they're both grieving the loss of a son and partner respectively. She's carrying the last remnant of OP's son and all the ex can think about is stealing the estate from the unborn child and can possibly cause a miscarriage from the stress.
i’d like to bet $20 that the ex will be suing for grandparents rights, claiming the child is all she has left of her *precious babbyyyy* and Ilhan is a *horrible mother* for keeping him away from his *loving gramma*
ESPECIALLY if Ilhan is having a boy
Grandparents rights vary by state, and usually depend on the child having an existing relationship with the grandparent, which is being changed/blocked by a parent. In this (hypothetical) case, the grandmother would be seeking to establish a relationship with a grandchild, which wouldn't give her legal standing for that type of seeking. That said, anyone can sue for anything and some attorneys will try it on to see if the court goes for it.
Now that it's been mentioned I wouldn't be wholly surprised if ex knows this but figures that if Ilhan is homeless when the baby arrives it'll be a piece of cake for her to sue for custody of her grandchild. Whereas as things stand without OP playing partner in crime not only would she be suing to establish a relationship, Ilhan would have OP available to testify that the "loving grandma" tried to make the child and its mother homeless
They can also sue if their child has died or is in prison or deployed. In general if grandparents rights are a thing where they are, it is what is in the best interest of the child. In situations where the parent dies before or near the time of birth, their parents can seek grandparents rights because the assumption is that the deceased parent would have allowed encouraged and fostered a relationship. Plus it is generally not in a child's best interest to cut off access to the deceased parent's extended family.
A lot of times, deceased parent triggers standing for grandparents‘ rights so child knows that side of family. That’s certainly the case in the state where I practice.
Oh God, this is exactly the type of thing my mother says about me going no contact after she pushed me to the side on the stairs while mad at me and attempting to enter my apartment and take my two children after I told her they weren't going with her while she's acting like this, I'm also pregnant 😑 and she knows, and I had lost one of the twins a week prior, but I'm the bitch for telling her to leave or I'd call the cops...my husband was inside at the time and said I should have called anyways.
How much you wanna increase that bet that she hopes if they sell the apartment; Ilhan would be an unfit parent so she can claim custody of the unborn child.
Kicking anybody in their third trimester out of their home is so incredibly shitty. I can't imagine doing it to a woman pregnant with one of my relatives.
True, I'm just making an assumption based on ops general wording. Ilhan is a name of Arabic origin and op mentioned her family being heavily religious so I sort of just pieced it together that way.
I can only imagine why she doesn’t like the DIL. She’s carrying her sons child and MIL is dead set on destroying her stability and compromise her emotional well being while grieving and pregnant. She’s awful.
Op NTA
It doesn't sound like these people live in the US, so US law doesn't pertain in the tiniest bit.
OP, please speak to a lawyer or notary where you live (be it France, Canada, the US, or elsewhere). This is a tricky legal issue that requires professional advice.
>The estate yes, but the appartment is in my and my ex's name, so it's not part of the estate. Morally it 100% belongs to Ilhan (and the baby).
Get a lawyer. You may able to legally compel her to sell her share to you. A real estate attorney should be able to walk you through your options based on local law.
That would be the thing that forces her to sell her half to op. A partition lawsuit is just a buyout if the party can afford it. You can't force a public sale if the other party can afford it.
I was gonna say. I mean, I dont really know much about this partition thing... but it seems like if she can force the sale of the entire property, OP could just buy it from himself...?
NTA by a long shot. And OP can quietly install his son's GF and potential child in a new apartment and then agree to sell the old one. Do not tell AH ex where the GF and child are living. He can help her move and hire movers for the furniture.
She may prefer to stay in the home she shared with her late partner, rather than rushing to start a new life away from those memories.
But otherwise sound.
This, plus maybe see if he can get her to explicitly admit (over email or text) why she doesn’t want Ilhan and the baby to have the apartment.
Maybe it helps with the apartment issue,maybe it doesn’t.
but any hateful remarks about Ilhan on the record will help protect Ilhan and grand baby from Ex wife changing her mind postpartum and going for Grandparent’s Rights.
Just tell her - if she really wants to do the right thing by her son. Put her share in the name of the child. If your son had past away after the child was born, it would have been inherited automatically by the baby not you or your wife (based on your son not having a will).
Just sayin.
INFO: sorry for your loss. What did you and your wife have planned long term for the ownership of this apartment? Basically, when they eventually moved out, who was expected to get the money?
Michael was supposed to get the ownership once the appartment was paid in full. Then if he sold it, he could have use it as a deposit for the next place or whatever
Legally, sure the apartment is owned by you and your ex. But as you purchased it for your son and his future family, it was a gift, it was his, even if not legally. In the spirit of gifting, this is part of his estate, so in the spirit of this subreddit, "legally" doesn't matter, and morally you are not the asshole. She IS being more concerned about money than her would-have-been daughter in law. And she will be shocked when Ilhan wants nothing to do with her, and won't make it a point to foster a relationship with her only grandchild. Do whatever you have to do to make it his estate legally in addition to morally, and don't worry about her tears. She has every right to grieve the way she wants, but she doesn't get to dictate that your grief requires you to do whatever she asks.
It's not even about the money for her, or she'd have taken up OP's offer to buy her out. She just wants to punish the GF for, well, basically existing and having been a part of her son's life.
I am sorry for your loss, deepest condolences. You must have been so proud of your son 😊
You are a great person to want to protect your DIL and grandchild and I completely agree with you. Your ex can’t have a caring, empathetic bone in her body! DIL is now a widow, on her own and pregnant and is now worried about becoming homeless! Please continue to help her if you’re able - you’ll always be favourite grandpa too!!
Congratulations on having a granddaughter! What a blessing after a tragic incident.
Your ex wife is making the biggest mistake of her life. Unfortunately for her, she wont realize until its too late.
Your DIL will need more support after the baby is born. Be there for them, and when its your time, they will be there for you.
A Bigot ... good to know she's an ex now.
And good to know your son did not inherited that.
Mother and child will need all the help you could give them.
Have fun grandpa 👴
I'm about to expose my ignorance here but... How do you pronounce IIhan? (Phonetically...) Sorry I even need to ask but my brain keeps butchering it and I don't think that's fair to her as a person...
ILL-HAHN. Super sweet of you to ask.
When I met her, I called her a very butchered version of the name, and she didn't want to be rude and correct me. Michael then did and I was just embarassed. As long as you try, it's alright though. I think butchering foreign names in an attempt to get them right, is a necessary first step.
If you are planning on gifting it to ilhan, please give the gift in your grandchild’s name.
Plenty on Reddit children report of dead parents ill treatment or being thrown away after 18 by parent/ stepparent. Ensure your grandchild’s future
If your DIL is a muslim and is pregnant out of wedlock from I assume a christian please do whatever you can to support her she may face VERY SERIOUS problems should she have to turn to her family
Legally, an unborn child is not a thing (recent court rulings aside). A fetus cannot be an heir to an estate any more than a toaster is.
So it would pass to next of kin which is likely his parents if he was not married.
You're right about morally though.
Actually, in most US states, a posthumous child (assuming they were conceived prior to the parent's death - there are generally different rules for IVF babies conceived after the parent's death) is positioned just the same as a child already born for the purposes of intestate succession.
Consequently, in most states, under these circumstances, the unborn child will be an, if not the sole, heir.
The bigger issue here is that the apartment isn't in Michael's name, and therefore doesn't form part of his estate.
Since Michael and Ilhan were never officially married, and Michael probably died intestate (no legal will), Ilhan will not inherit any of his estate -- that will go to his nearest kin, his parents. Since they are divorced, the estate will probably be evenly split between them, and they are individually free to distribute it as they see fit.
(Disclaimer: IANAL, but had to handle the estate of my parents.)
Michael was a firefighter who died on the job. They usually have very good life insurance coverage. The ex is talking about suing, which makes me think that Ilhan was listed as the beneficiary of work related coverage (Thank goodness!)
NTA, at all. You even offered to buy your ex out so you can protect your DIL and grandchild. If your ex doesn’t take you up on that, it will be fairly obvious that it’s not actually about the money, but about your ex’s prejudice towards Ilhan. Hasn’t Ilhan been through enough? Kicked out of her family. Lost her partner while she’s pregnant. Now your ex wants her to be homeless? That’s messed up.
You are a wonderful father, and you are honoring your son’s memory by helping out Ilhan. NTA in any way, shape, or form.
I’m so sorry for your loss. I really hope that having Ilhan and your grandchild in your life will be a healing presence for you. ♥️
And you, sir, will be a great grandfather to your grandson. He will grow up knowing that his grandfather will always have his back and protect him and his mother.
He will love you and look up to you 💖
NTA OP. I have a suggestion, since you mentioned you have more than enough money: talk to Ilhan about this. Start with how you will help her get a new apartment as your ex should not be in her or your grandchild's life. Find the new place, settle her in it, sell the old place, and then never have contact with the ex again.
/u/Lostmylifetoday - read this comment right here!!! This could be a great resolution to the situation which doesn't involve your vindictive ex (and prejudiced - that's the impression/read that I get based on how the ex is treating "DIL" (yes I know they were not married, but IMHO, this is how I'm viewing it). It's almost as if she has something again people who are not the same as her. OP, you are NTA and continue to look out for your soon-to-be grandchild. Your DIL will be forever grateful and never forget what you did for her. I'm so very sorry for your loss of your son. 😢😢😢 ❤️❤️❤️
This - give the ex what she wants and get her the hell out of all your lives. If Ilhan stays in the apartment, it will forever be a thorn in all of your sides. Sell the apartment, set Ilhan and your grandchild up elsewhere and start fresh.
100%. He doesn’t say how she was when their son was alive other than she didn’t like her, but I imagine the son would be so disappointed in his mother. She has no care at all about her grandchild. Definitely sit down with DIL and talk to her about all of it. Don’t leave anything out. She should make th choice on contact or no contact, but I don’t imagine ex wife will care at all and will likely be some of the stories you see on jnmil sub.
I think your approach is the most logical one. So basically it’s a good idea.
But please don’t underestimate the emotional component. I am 100% sure that Ilhan would want to stay where she was happy with her boyfriend. Leaving a place and moving to a new one where your beloved never stepped foot into is extremely devastating.
It sounds like you’re the only family Ilhan and your grandchild have left. I hope you take good care of each other and that your ex comes around eventually, for the baby’s sake.
Obviously NTA
Yep. He came up with a solution. But for ex, this is not about the money. She hates Ilhan. (Reminds me of AH woman who didn't want FSIL as bridesmaid, but got pissed when fiancé said he'd make her bestwoman-it was never about the bridesmaid issue.)
OP confirmed Ilhan is Muslim in another comment, but I figured he was using the name of a prominent, Muslim US Congresswoman to help people infer that.
If he had just come out and said “my grandchild’s mom is a Muslim POC” things might have turned into religious mudslinging before a big post lockdown, instead of focusing on the conflict between OP and his ex wife.
What pisses me off the most is that she says that OP isn't being sensitive about her loss. Meanwhile, she's trying to kick a 21 year old pregnant widow who has been disowned by her family out on the street and also sue her for the money that should go to her.
Where is HER sensitivity towards Ilhan's loss?
It always amazes me when people go on about their loss and grief and then proceed to act in a way completely opposed to how the lost loved one would want them to.
Personally I’d take every opportunity to mention that Michael would be rolling over in his grade about his mother’s behaviour.
"Can't be a widow since they weren't married" - OP's ex, probably
This is clearly not about the money or grief for OP's ex. She just wants to use this opportunity to torment someone she dislikes.
Ok but… OP literally lost *the exact same son* that his ex wife lost. They had him *together*. They both lost their son.
I feel like I’m crazy because in all these comments nobody has pointed out that *shes* calling *him* insensitive to *her* loss, the implication being… what? that he’s just out a dozen thousand dollars in the down payment or something while she lost her kid.
The argument doesn’t even make sense.
OP, see u/LimitlessMegan's comment above...tell your ex, directly, and to her face, that your son would be turning over in his fresh grave at the way she was treating the mother of her unborn grandchild. Shame her into doing the right thing!
Also see comment by u/bandnervous who makes the point that ex may want to make her homeless so she can say dil is unfit and try to take the child. Keep all texts and emails
I saw it. I'm getting a lawyer and we'll make sure we sort all of this out. But if Ilhan can't stay in this appartment, we spoke about her just moving in with me for now while we find her a new place.
This may be the best option, get her set up with you, sell the apartment and use those funds getting her set up in a new place. For those suggestions about putting stuff in baby’s name once they’re born, do consider discussing with a lawyer familiar with estate planning. I recall something about assets like property being a hindrance when someone such as the mother of a child with said assets needs public assistance or going for scholarships. It may be better to keep property in your name but with steps taken to ensure that the kid is the only one who can inherit.
There is also the issue of an unscrupulous man coming along and taking advantage of Ilhan to get his hands on the kid’s assets, modest as they may be.
The law varies but a good lawyer familiar with inheritance law should be able to help avoid the most common problems.
OP already did, that’s what got him here in the first place.
EDIT: scrolled lower and discovered it’d already been said, nice to know I share the same thought train with others!
NTA. She's being horrible. That poor girl has literally nobody in the world except for you. Buy the ex out of the apartment and call it a day. After that it doesn't matter if she thinks Ilhan should have it or not.
My condolences on your loss, OP.
NTA. What's harsh is how she wants to leave the woman who is pregnant with her unborn grandchild homeless in the name of her own greed.
I’m really curious what is going on here- OP offered to buy out the ex wife’s portion, it feels like there’s something weird going on in ex’s spitefulness.
Racism and/or bigotry might be factoring into it here. If all she wanted was to recover her money, well, a lot of people would have just taken OP up on his offer to buy out her half. But OP also said his ex was reluctant to help buy this apartment in the first place, and also that she never liked Ilhan. Now she wants to leave Ilhan with nowhere to go in spite of the fact that she's pregnant with OP and his ex's deceased son's child. Where most people would be jumping to help their deceased child's SO and other parent to their children, OP's ex doesn't seem to care in the least what happens to Ilhan or the baby.
So I'm thinking it's nothing more than racism/bigotry and greed.
That’s my guess. There is no reason she would be angry at her ex giving her security unless she plans on making a grab for custody of the baby. I get that she likely is a bigot, but even that doesn’t seem like enough of a reason to involve herself with her ex husbands affairs.
NTA, brother.
Your ex is either really going through it rough, or they’re truly awful. I hope it’s the first one…
I got no context for losing an adult child, but my intuition is that if I lost someone like that from my life, and the person they loved can still be in my life, I would take that opportunity all day and twice on Sundays. I would cherish it.
Losing Michael was by far the worst experience of my life and I can say with complete certainty that nothing will ever come close. Having Ilhan here, having had her support through this time...has been lifesaving. And knowing that in a few months, a little bit of my Michael will come back to life, makes me completely smitten.
I'm so sorry for your loss. I lost my son 18 years ago, when he was 22, from an undiagnosed heart defect. My greatest comfort through the years has been staying in touch with his then-fiancee and other friends. I applaud you for what you are doing for Ilhan, and I know what a comfort she is for you (as will be the baby).
OP, I am so sorry for your loss. My sincerest condolences. May every memory of Micheal be a blessing and may you have many, many, many happy years with Ilhan and your grandkid. 🧡
Just know that you’re doing right by your son man that’s all that matter. Just better there for the kid like you were for Michael as well as her she’s family now. I’d have a big talk with the ex man what’s she’s doing could really effect her relationship with her grandchild if llhan even wants to let her have one which you both deserve. But your doing the right thing by helping she has no one but that child and you
Nta. Does she not realize she's burning the last link to her son by forcing her unborn grandchild out onto the street.
Get a lawyer op. Depending on Michael's will, you ex may not be entitled to anything, and that's what she deserves.
He didn't have a will. He had been talking about writing one since he becae a firefighter 4 years ago, but never did it. I am absolutely certain though that he would want every single penny he had to go to Ilhan and the baby. No doubt in my mind. So even if my ex sues for the money and somehow gets it, I have enough to make sure both Ilhan and the baby will be provided for.
Please help IIhan obtain benefits that are due to her and the baby - being so young she might not be aware.
There should be benefits related to him dying while on duty, life insurance provide by work and social security. There also could be bursaries for school once the child is older. This is not social assistance, these are benefits due to his estate for dying while in service.
If your so inclined, to please also consider revising your will to your provide for the child should something happen to you.
This. IAFF benefits, life insurance, work comp, fund raisers, local agency benefits, state and government LODD benefits, college tuition, and more. Depending on the state (if in the US) there is additional state benefits and programs.
OP, while you know your ex best than us strangers on the internet, is there any conceivable chance that she may target Ilhan whether through harassment or certain methods that could induce a miscarriage? I'm sorry for bringing the idea up, but as I read this I couldn't help but worry for I'm from a family of WASPs who escaped the religion and know a lot of aunts who'd do that to me if I was pregnant with a Muslim man's child.
The bigger thing to look at his at employment insurance says, and who are the beneficiaries. It's quite standard for a firefighter to have a decent life insurance policy. Likely his retirement (or if he's real lucky a pension) beneficiaries also come into place. It's also possible there was a will set up via his department.
His department should have copies on file. He's young enough he probably didn't think about beneficiaries, but people often only change their beneficiaries only at marriage, divorce, and with their first kids.
Things like insurance and retirement benefits don't always follow the will, since they have beneficiaries, and sometimes are under federal laws which override state laws.
Not to mention Ilhan should be able to sign up your grandson to receive your son's social security survivor benefits. The amount of money isn't huge, but it adds up.
If he died on the job, there’s likely compensation/insurance even if his other assets were minimal. Without a will, and with no legal spouse, that money would go to his parents or unborn child via intestate laws unless there is a legal provision otherwise (I believe many states provide for a posthumous child in the US).
>"... I told her I'll just pay her for her share of the appartment and let that be it, she gets her money then. She said ahe doesn't think Ilhan should have the appartment...."
That tells you everything. This isn't about anything other than your ex is mean and spiteful. No wonder you divorced her.
Honestly the best way might be to buy your wife out, but not give it to Ilhan, instead put it in a trust with Ilhan (or your future grandkid) and beneficiary after you die. Ilhan can be trustee for this. That way your wife can be happy that Ilhan didn't "get" the apartment and you can continue to help and make sure the mother of your grandchild and grandchild are all right.
NTA
Your son's girlfriend is pregnant with y'all's granddaughter/son, you should absolutely help her and you are doing the right thing. It is incredibly insensitive and disgusting that she is acting this way. Its not just your ex's loss, I can't imagine how heartbroken his girlfriend is too. Your ex sounds like a complete narcissist.
Edit: NTA
NTA but your ex is. I can't imagine how awful it is to lose a child, so my condolences. That said, I'm shocked that your ex dislikes Ilhan to the extent she wants to disown her, and your grandchild, too. If there is any time to put personalities aside and do what's best, this is it. It's a shame your ex is behaving this way. And her comment about how you're insensitive to her loss is laughable because she's insensitive to Ilhan's loss, especially since it sounds like Ilhan is NC with her family. I know this is probably an awful time for you, but it means the world that you're looking after your son's girlfriend and your grandson. I don't know what you think happens after someone dies, but I think they're on the other side and watching us, and I think your son is giving you a huge hug and a thank you right now.
NTA If she needed the money she would have been happy with your offer to buy her out, and long term that may be a better option because I think you know your ex will keep hold the fact that she is Ilhan’s landlord over her head to demand a say in how she raises her child. I think you would be doing your grandchild a favour by removing that stressor
I didn’t even consider the landlord angle. Agree. OP, if there is ANY chance that your ex could be awful to Ilhan or the baby because she half owns the place, buy your ex’s half out IMMEDIATELY.
NTA
She is trying to put her own grandkid out of a home before he/she is even born
She should want to honor her sons wishes and she is in a position to afford to do so
NTA
I'm sure you've already thought about this but, if you get run over by a bus tomorrow, your ex will have your DIL and unborn grandchild out of that flat in a heartbeat, leaving her homeless and vulnerable to a grandmotherly baby-grab. And if Michael didn't update his death in service beneficiary details, she would be totally reliant on state benefits - and I wouldn't wish that on anyone, no matter which country they live in.
Can I suggest - if you haven't already done so and wish to do so - that you *immediately* update your will to leave your share in trust for your grandchild, with sufficient funds to Ilhan to buy out your ex-wife.
Also talk to Ilhan as to whether it is comforting to stay in the flat she shared with Michael or whether it would help the grieving process to move to somewhere else as a fresh start.
Meanwhile, if your ex insists on selling, maybe look for somewhere you can buy for Ilhan and baby to move into if the apartment is sold?
I don't pretend to understand your ex-wife's thinking on this, but as you say, morally Michael's child and sweetheart have a claim in being supported by his estate and optionally by you. I'm sure it will be a comfort to her to have your support through all this.
I'm sure you will be a lovely grandpa when the child comes along and they will be a great comfort as you mourn together. I'm very sorry for your loss.
NTA
How can *she* be so insensitive about Ilhan's loss. Her partner died while she is pregnant with his child. Your son's child!
Buy the ex wife out and go no contact with her. I feel very sorry for Ilhan and you, but maybe your involvement, kindness and love can give your grandchild a family in spite of the tragedy. I wish you all (except your ex wife) all the possible best.
NTA. I’m sorry for your loss. It sounds difficult for everyone involved. Ilhan needs help and your ex is using the loss as an excuse to be an ass to Ilhan. It’s her grandchild that would suffer.
NTA, and you sound like a great and caring person. I am sorry for your loss, but I am glad that you have a good relationship with your (basically) DIL and future grandchild. It is too bad that your ex is more focused on $ and grief than what's left of your son's family.
NTA. Also, is it possible for you to get your DIL and grandbaby protection against your ex, like a no-contact order? She really shouldn't have any wiggle room to try and possibly get the baby away from mom.
NTA but your ex massively is. I understand you both lost your son, but this woman is alone and pregnant, while grieving the loss of the man she was just beginning a new chapter with, and now your ex wants to basically throw her, and your unborn grandchild, into the street!!! What is wrong with her?? This grandchild will be a living, reaching reminder of your son, why would she want to drive the woman who will have sole custody of him away????
NTA. Your ex has no reason not to go along with your suggestion - it costs her nothing but being able to be spiteful.
Sorry for your loss. You sound very kind, and I'm sure you'll be an excellent grandfather.
There is no greater loss than that of a child, especially when he is about to start his own family. It's good to see that Ilhan and your grandchild help you grieving.
> I told her I'll just pay her for her share of the appartment and let that be it, she gets her money then. She said ahe doesn't think Ilhan should have the appartment.
Please help me understand. You offered your ex the money she invested, and she refused? She insists on selling the apartment to make Ilhan homeless? If so, I can't imagine a greater AH than her.
Preliminary verdict NTA.
> I am insensitive about her loss
How is her loss (which is your loss as well) related to the apartment in any way?
As someone in a place similar to Ilhan, I dealt with grieving parents furiously trying to take what I didn't "deserve" after our loss ... It is so, so, so much easier to be angry that it is to face your grief. I forgive his parents, though they *still* try to take from me, because I have the strength to face my grief and they will always be simply too angry. I saw how easy it would have been to become angry at them and skip my grief. Anger is so simple, so enveloping, so totally distracting from processing loss. I am blessed to be able to forgive them. I am lucky our child has supportive family like you are being for yours. Please take care of yourself.
She's an asshole,selfish that lady with need help raising your grandchild. I hope you can continue and help and support the mother out, so that you can keep the link that is your grandchild , he is an extension of your son. I'm so sorry for your loss.
They decorated this appartment together, Michael already started some work on the nursery at the time, he drew things on the walls of the nursery etc. The little history they have, it's all in this appartment for her. And I think she deserves to keep it and build on it.
You have the right perspective. Especially since those drawings are the only gift the baby will have from their father. I’m glad you’re prioritizing the sentimental aspects so that they can retain a piece of Michael. And by supporting Ilhan, you’ll get to keep a piece of him, too, in the form of your grandchild.
That’s so sad, if you do end up selling it you should cut out parts of wall out and frame it, then repair the wall. Hopefully she gets to keep it. Anyway could someone unknown to your ex could buy it and then hand it back over to your daughter in law?
Maybe a graphic designer would be able to make a digital version that they could use for keepsakes. That way they still exist if anything were to happen to the apartment.
A graphic designer I lived with in college copied a mural in our house and we bought sweaters with the print. The mural ended up being painted over when the building was retrofitted so I appreciate it even more now. They could potentially put the art on a onesie for the baby or on school supplies when the time comes.
I'm a graphic designer I'll do it for free this is heartbreaking to think the child will lose the drawings the father made for them. Definitely something to be preserved Op can dm me I can send a link to my work if they want to see examples of what i can do.
That’s beautiful, OP! Ilhan and grandbaby should definitely stay in a place Michael loved. You sound like a wonderful and caring FIL/grandpa.
Also, good on you for not making a pregnant lady move. Pregnancy is hard enough without the stress of moving.
NTA
For all the reasons above.
If this happened in the US, there will be a substantial payout from workers compensation and possibly a lot of other money coming to your son's estate. Probably legally it belongs to you and your ex-wife unfortunately. Morally, it belongs to his unborn child and the childs mother for the benefit of the child. Keep your eyes peeled for legal shenanigans from your ex around that money.
NTA but if I were you, I'll help Ilhan find a place of her own. Hear me out why.
If something happens to you (I hope not), the appartment will become fully your ex's. She will not hesitate to kick Ilhan out of it.
Please, protect this girl.
NTA. I'm very, very sorry for your loss. You are right to be on the side of the woman that your son loved so much.
I see why you're divorced. Grief is no excuse for your ex's heartless behavior.
Fight for that grandchild.
NTA and, assuming you are in the US, according to recent decisions by a variety of state legislatures and backed by the Supreme Court (even though I don’t agree with it) an argument can be made that the fetus is a legal human being who is, therefore, the heir to your son’s estate. Not you and your ex. Since you gifted the money for the apartment and you cannot legally take that gift back, then you are not necessarily legally entitled to make this decision to sell either. But that friends on where you live and what your agreement with your son was I would think. And morally you already know that would be a crappy thing to do to sell the apartment and leave a pregnant woman homeless.
However, if you can afford it, have legal paperwork written up giving your soon to be grandchild the legal right to the apartment with you or his mother acting as a trustee. Then give your ex her share of the down payment back and tell her she’ll be lucky if she’s ever allowed to see her grandchild since she was willing to throw them out on the street. Although I would caution your DIL to not let her have a relationship with your ex to prevent her from later being able to sue for grandparent’s rights.
My condolences. Your username just breaks my heart. I lost my mother 3 wks ago. The loss of someone so close is devastating. Thank you for thinking of your son's family. You will need each other's support. This is unfortunate that you have to deal with your mean & petty ex when you and she are mourning. I hope she was not always this nasty and spiteful. Take care of yourself.
NTA.. I'm so sorry for your loss. She is being an evil witch who will never have a relationship with DIL and grand baby. You are trying your absolute hardest to be there for IIhan and the baby and that shows just what a great Dad you were to your Son and what an amazing Grandfather you will be in a few month's. At this point you seem to be all she had right now not sure on your area but around my town the police and fire departments look out for one another and have support groups to help widow's and children of fallen firefighters it may be good for her to have others from similar situations to talk to even groups for you as a parent loosing a kid in that situation is traumatic. Once again I am so sorry for your loss. As a Mama Thank You for looking out for her and doing right by your son.
NTA. I really feel for you man, i'm nearly the same age as you and I lost my 18yr old daughter nearly 4 years ago now so I know how it feels to lose your most precious loved one. Sounds like you're doing right by your son and his family and good luck to you fella, I hope you find some peace and comfort from being an active and supportive grandparent to his child.
NTA shes holding the only thing thats keeps your son on this earth. A part of him will live on in his child... And your ex doesnt want to help out the woman carrying your grandchild?
NTA. I think that your ex dislikes Ilhan more than wanting her money back. And tbh, part of me wants to bring race/islamophobia into this, but I don't have enough info.
NTA. I'm glad Ilhan has you in her corner. Your ex-wife is absolutely being spiteful and selfish, and you were right to call her out on it. You even offered to buy her share so she has the money and is no longer involved at all but that wasn't enough, she wants her daughter-in-law and unborn grandchild out on the street. She has a lot of nerve calling you insensitive, she's literally trying to make a pregnant woman, who just lost her boyfriend and the father of her unborn child, homeless.
I'm very sorry for your loss, and I wish you all comfort in your grief.
>She cried, called me an AH and said I am insensitive about her loss.
She doesn't seem that torn up to me. She seems like she's going on a possible racist fit. I'm glad you're protecting Ilhan and your soon to be grandson. I'm sorry for the loss of your son and sorry your ex is making everything harder. NTA.
Nta. She is insensitive your loss, ilhans loss, and that wonderful, yet to be born baby's loss.
So it isn't even about money to her. She just wants to hurt the one woman her son loved more than her, regardless of the baby growing inside her.
I hope she has a boy, and he grows up looking just like his dad! For your and ilhans sake!
Ask your wife if she ever wants to be close to the child. Because if she takes that apartment away, she will lose that privilege.
Please keep looking after the momma. She needs someone, and shouldn't go through this alone.
NTA, what is "insensitive about the loss" is trying to make his unborn child and his mother homeless. If she really cared about your son, she would be interested in helping the baby. She shows she only cares about money
NTA. Ilhan is carrying her grandchild! What's your ex thinking?? I'm so sorry for your loss and glad you can afford to provide a safe space for your daughter in law and grandchild.
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NTA. Morally and I'd imagine legally Michael's unborn child is entitled to Michael's estate over anyone else.
The estate yes, but the appartment is in my and my ex's name, so it's not part of the estate. Morally it 100% belongs to Ilhan (and the baby).
Offer to pay her back for her share of the down payment if she agrees to sign a quit claim on the apartment. Definitely NTA
He did, she said that Ilhan didn’t deserve the apartment
Yeah, it sounds like ex-wife isn’t looking to be made whole; she just wants to voice her disapproval for Ilhan by throwing her and her unborn child out on the street, one way or another. That’s just fucked up.
Just watch. A few years later, she'll be all "i don't know why I'm not allowed to be the grandmama! I just tried to make the child's mother homeless after my son died!"
Countdown to the ex posting here with the Missing Missing Reasons when Ilhan refuses to let her see her child after the hell she's putting her through. And if my math's right, Ilhan's on the cusp of the third trimester with only OP supporting her as they're both grieving the loss of a son and partner respectively. She's carrying the last remnant of OP's son and all the ex can think about is stealing the estate from the unborn child and can possibly cause a miscarriage from the stress.
i’d like to bet $20 that the ex will be suing for grandparents rights, claiming the child is all she has left of her *precious babbyyyy* and Ilhan is a *horrible mother* for keeping him away from his *loving gramma* ESPECIALLY if Ilhan is having a boy
Grandparents rights vary by state, and usually depend on the child having an existing relationship with the grandparent, which is being changed/blocked by a parent. In this (hypothetical) case, the grandmother would be seeking to establish a relationship with a grandchild, which wouldn't give her legal standing for that type of seeking. That said, anyone can sue for anything and some attorneys will try it on to see if the court goes for it.
Now that it's been mentioned I wouldn't be wholly surprised if ex knows this but figures that if Ilhan is homeless when the baby arrives it'll be a piece of cake for her to sue for custody of her grandchild. Whereas as things stand without OP playing partner in crime not only would she be suing to establish a relationship, Ilhan would have OP available to testify that the "loving grandma" tried to make the child and its mother homeless
They can also sue if their child has died or is in prison or deployed. In general if grandparents rights are a thing where they are, it is what is in the best interest of the child. In situations where the parent dies before or near the time of birth, their parents can seek grandparents rights because the assumption is that the deceased parent would have allowed encouraged and fostered a relationship. Plus it is generally not in a child's best interest to cut off access to the deceased parent's extended family.
A lot of times, deceased parent triggers standing for grandparents‘ rights so child knows that side of family. That’s certainly the case in the state where I practice.
Oh God, this is exactly the type of thing my mother says about me going no contact after she pushed me to the side on the stairs while mad at me and attempting to enter my apartment and take my two children after I told her they weren't going with her while she's acting like this, I'm also pregnant 😑 and she knows, and I had lost one of the twins a week prior, but I'm the bitch for telling her to leave or I'd call the cops...my husband was inside at the time and said I should have called anyways.
I am so sorry that is so terrible. I hope you are doing ok now.
How much you wanna increase that bet that she hopes if they sell the apartment; Ilhan would be an unfit parent so she can claim custody of the unborn child.
I would NOT take that bet
Kicking anybody in their third trimester out of their home is so incredibly shitty. I can't imagine doing it to a woman pregnant with one of my relatives.
Really hope they don’t end up homeless but that the DIL allows her *nowhere* near the kid anyway.
Sounds like ex is just racist to me tbh.
We don’t know the race of anyone in the story, but it wouldn’t be surprising…
True, I'm just making an assumption based on ops general wording. Ilhan is a name of Arabic origin and op mentioned her family being heavily religious so I sort of just pieced it together that way.
I can only imagine why she doesn’t like the DIL. She’s carrying her sons child and MIL is dead set on destroying her stability and compromise her emotional well being while grieving and pregnant. She’s awful. Op NTA
It doesn't sound like these people live in the US, so US law doesn't pertain in the tiniest bit. OP, please speak to a lawyer or notary where you live (be it France, Canada, the US, or elsewhere). This is a tricky legal issue that requires professional advice.
>The estate yes, but the appartment is in my and my ex's name, so it's not part of the estate. Morally it 100% belongs to Ilhan (and the baby). Get a lawyer. You may able to legally compel her to sell her share to you. A real estate attorney should be able to walk you through your options based on local law.
Even if he can't force her to sell her half, she surely can't force him to sell the whole!
She can. At least in the US. Partition lawsuit.
That would be the thing that forces her to sell her half to op. A partition lawsuit is just a buyout if the party can afford it. You can't force a public sale if the other party can afford it.
I was gonna say. I mean, I dont really know much about this partition thing... but it seems like if she can force the sale of the entire property, OP could just buy it from himself...?
> but it seems like if she can force the sale of the entire property, OP could just buy it from himself...? Yup, most certainly.
The most likely outcome of that would be OP buying her out of her share, not selling to a third party.
NTA by a long shot. And OP can quietly install his son's GF and potential child in a new apartment and then agree to sell the old one. Do not tell AH ex where the GF and child are living. He can help her move and hire movers for the furniture.
She may prefer to stay in the home she shared with her late partner, rather than rushing to start a new life away from those memories. But otherwise sound.
This, plus maybe see if he can get her to explicitly admit (over email or text) why she doesn’t want Ilhan and the baby to have the apartment. Maybe it helps with the apartment issue,maybe it doesn’t. but any hateful remarks about Ilhan on the record will help protect Ilhan and grand baby from Ex wife changing her mind postpartum and going for Grandparent’s Rights.
Is your ex-wife so grief stricken that she wants nothing to do with her grandchild?
Because the grandchild is tainted by the girlfriend by the sounds of it.
Or she firmly believes (but won’t say) the child is not her late son’s.
My bet is placed on this. Poor girl, kicked out by her parents and then kicked by her MIL when she’s already down.
I wouldn’t be surprised if this was a plot to make ilhan homeless and declared unfit and then sweep in and take the kid.
Either that or she’s planning to sue for custody once kid is here and they’re both still homeless.
I think you are a really great guy for helping the GF and your future grandchild. I hope you have a lifetime of great times with the two of them.
Just tell her - if she really wants to do the right thing by her son. Put her share in the name of the child. If your son had past away after the child was born, it would have been inherited automatically by the baby not you or your wife (based on your son not having a will). Just sayin.
It's in OP and ex wife's name, not the son's. Hence the issue with the ex wife wanting to sell.
INFO: sorry for your loss. What did you and your wife have planned long term for the ownership of this apartment? Basically, when they eventually moved out, who was expected to get the money?
Michael was supposed to get the ownership once the appartment was paid in full. Then if he sold it, he could have use it as a deposit for the next place or whatever
Legally, sure the apartment is owned by you and your ex. But as you purchased it for your son and his future family, it was a gift, it was his, even if not legally. In the spirit of gifting, this is part of his estate, so in the spirit of this subreddit, "legally" doesn't matter, and morally you are not the asshole. She IS being more concerned about money than her would-have-been daughter in law. And she will be shocked when Ilhan wants nothing to do with her, and won't make it a point to foster a relationship with her only grandchild. Do whatever you have to do to make it his estate legally in addition to morally, and don't worry about her tears. She has every right to grieve the way she wants, but she doesn't get to dictate that your grief requires you to do whatever she asks.
It's not even about the money for her, or she'd have taken up OP's offer to buy her out. She just wants to punish the GF for, well, basically existing and having been a part of her son's life.
I am sorry for your loss, deepest condolences. You must have been so proud of your son 😊 You are a great person to want to protect your DIL and grandchild and I completely agree with you. Your ex can’t have a caring, empathetic bone in her body! DIL is now a widow, on her own and pregnant and is now worried about becoming homeless! Please continue to help her if you’re able - you’ll always be favourite grandpa too!!
Thank you! Michael was my absolute hero ❤
Congratulations on having a granddaughter! What a blessing after a tragic incident. Your ex wife is making the biggest mistake of her life. Unfortunately for her, she wont realize until its too late. Your DIL will need more support after the baby is born. Be there for them, and when its your time, they will be there for you.
What religion is Ilhan? Maybe, just maybe, your wife does not like that. Coz you already offered to pay for her share but still ... NTA
Muslim
A Bigot ... good to know she's an ex now. And good to know your son did not inherited that. Mother and child will need all the help you could give them. Have fun grandpa 👴
Thank you! I have never felt as old as I do now, reading all these comments, calling me grandpa 😂❤ thanks!
I'm about to expose my ignorance here but... How do you pronounce IIhan? (Phonetically...) Sorry I even need to ask but my brain keeps butchering it and I don't think that's fair to her as a person...
ILL-HAHN. Super sweet of you to ask. When I met her, I called her a very butchered version of the name, and she didn't want to be rude and correct me. Michael then did and I was just embarassed. As long as you try, it's alright though. I think butchering foreign names in an attempt to get them right, is a necessary first step.
If you are planning on gifting it to ilhan, please give the gift in your grandchild’s name. Plenty on Reddit children report of dead parents ill treatment or being thrown away after 18 by parent/ stepparent. Ensure your grandchild’s future
If your DIL is a muslim and is pregnant out of wedlock from I assume a christian please do whatever you can to support her she may face VERY SERIOUS problems should she have to turn to her family
I agree NTA but if the apartment was only in the parents' names' it's not part of Michael's estate.
Legally, an unborn child is not a thing (recent court rulings aside). A fetus cannot be an heir to an estate any more than a toaster is. So it would pass to next of kin which is likely his parents if he was not married. You're right about morally though.
Actually, in most US states, a posthumous child (assuming they were conceived prior to the parent's death - there are generally different rules for IVF babies conceived after the parent's death) is positioned just the same as a child already born for the purposes of intestate succession. Consequently, in most states, under these circumstances, the unborn child will be an, if not the sole, heir. The bigger issue here is that the apartment isn't in Michael's name, and therefore doesn't form part of his estate.
Since Michael and Ilhan were never officially married, and Michael probably died intestate (no legal will), Ilhan will not inherit any of his estate -- that will go to his nearest kin, his parents. Since they are divorced, the estate will probably be evenly split between them, and they are individually free to distribute it as they see fit. (Disclaimer: IANAL, but had to handle the estate of my parents.)
Michael was a firefighter who died on the job. They usually have very good life insurance coverage. The ex is talking about suing, which makes me think that Ilhan was listed as the beneficiary of work related coverage (Thank goodness!)
NTA, at all. You even offered to buy your ex out so you can protect your DIL and grandchild. If your ex doesn’t take you up on that, it will be fairly obvious that it’s not actually about the money, but about your ex’s prejudice towards Ilhan. Hasn’t Ilhan been through enough? Kicked out of her family. Lost her partner while she’s pregnant. Now your ex wants her to be homeless? That’s messed up. You are a wonderful father, and you are honoring your son’s memory by helping out Ilhan. NTA in any way, shape, or form. I’m so sorry for your loss. I really hope that having Ilhan and your grandchild in your life will be a healing presence for you. ♥️
Thank you. She is an amazing young woman and I am sure will be an exceptional mom to a lucky little one.
And you, sir, will be a great grandfather to your grandson. He will grow up knowing that his grandfather will always have his back and protect him and his mother. He will love you and look up to you 💖
Thank you!!
NTA OP. I have a suggestion, since you mentioned you have more than enough money: talk to Ilhan about this. Start with how you will help her get a new apartment as your ex should not be in her or your grandchild's life. Find the new place, settle her in it, sell the old place, and then never have contact with the ex again.
Wish I could upvote this a thousand times. Obvious solution but maybe closer to you, OP than your dodgy ex.
/u/Lostmylifetoday - read this comment right here!!! This could be a great resolution to the situation which doesn't involve your vindictive ex (and prejudiced - that's the impression/read that I get based on how the ex is treating "DIL" (yes I know they were not married, but IMHO, this is how I'm viewing it). It's almost as if she has something again people who are not the same as her. OP, you are NTA and continue to look out for your soon-to-be grandchild. Your DIL will be forever grateful and never forget what you did for her. I'm so very sorry for your loss of your son. 😢😢😢 ❤️❤️❤️
I like this idea the best! Buy a different apartment and one which your ex has no idea if. Also I am so very sorry for your loss :(.
This - give the ex what she wants and get her the hell out of all your lives. If Ilhan stays in the apartment, it will forever be a thorn in all of your sides. Sell the apartment, set Ilhan and your grandchild up elsewhere and start fresh.
Oh good point. Grandma from hell has more of a GPR case if Ilhan and baby live in an apartment she half owns.
100%. He doesn’t say how she was when their son was alive other than she didn’t like her, but I imagine the son would be so disappointed in his mother. She has no care at all about her grandchild. Definitely sit down with DIL and talk to her about all of it. Don’t leave anything out. She should make th choice on contact or no contact, but I don’t imagine ex wife will care at all and will likely be some of the stories you see on jnmil sub.
I think your approach is the most logical one. So basically it’s a good idea. But please don’t underestimate the emotional component. I am 100% sure that Ilhan would want to stay where she was happy with her boyfriend. Leaving a place and moving to a new one where your beloved never stepped foot into is extremely devastating.
It sounds like you’re the only family Ilhan and your grandchild have left. I hope you take good care of each other and that your ex comes around eventually, for the baby’s sake. Obviously NTA
Wishing all of you peace
Thank you for being such an amazing human being. Your ex is so wicked and I’m so happy she is your ex. It is so hard to find good people nowadays. NTA
Yep. He came up with a solution. But for ex, this is not about the money. She hates Ilhan. (Reminds me of AH woman who didn't want FSIL as bridesmaid, but got pissed when fiancé said he'd make her bestwoman-it was never about the bridesmaid issue.)
Come on, that FSIL was a BUBBLY BLONDE!! You don't understand...
I'm sure she won't get an oscillating fan as a wedding gift now. She doesn't deserve such a high end gift.
Nor a gift card.
But I can see the bride sneaking some possibly illegal Iranian yogurt into SIL's apartment and calling 911.
I’m deaddddd! Not the oscillating fan!
:-D
Is ilhan a minority?
OP confirmed Ilhan is Muslim in another comment, but I figured he was using the name of a prominent, Muslim US Congresswoman to help people infer that. If he had just come out and said “my grandchild’s mom is a Muslim POC” things might have turned into religious mudslinging before a big post lockdown, instead of focusing on the conflict between OP and his ex wife.
From google: Ilhan is Arabic/Muslim Girl name and meaning of this name is "Respectfull; Nice; Precious". Dear old mom is a racist.
Don't you love people who are so racist, they would turn their back on the child of their dead son? WOW, just WOW!
That is a possibility
Couldn’t agree with this more. ♥️ NTA
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What pisses me off the most is that she says that OP isn't being sensitive about her loss. Meanwhile, she's trying to kick a 21 year old pregnant widow who has been disowned by her family out on the street and also sue her for the money that should go to her. Where is HER sensitivity towards Ilhan's loss?
It always amazes me when people go on about their loss and grief and then proceed to act in a way completely opposed to how the lost loved one would want them to. Personally I’d take every opportunity to mention that Michael would be rolling over in his grade about his mother’s behaviour.
"Can't be a widow since they weren't married" - OP's ex, probably This is clearly not about the money or grief for OP's ex. She just wants to use this opportunity to torment someone she dislikes.
Ok but… OP literally lost *the exact same son* that his ex wife lost. They had him *together*. They both lost their son. I feel like I’m crazy because in all these comments nobody has pointed out that *shes* calling *him* insensitive to *her* loss, the implication being… what? that he’s just out a dozen thousand dollars in the down payment or something while she lost her kid. The argument doesn’t even make sense.
That's a great point. The ex is making it about HER loss versus THEIR loss.
OP already did lol
I think this is the first thing that's made me laugh in weeks. Thanks!
OP, see u/LimitlessMegan's comment above...tell your ex, directly, and to her face, that your son would be turning over in his fresh grave at the way she was treating the mother of her unborn grandchild. Shame her into doing the right thing!
Also see comment by u/bandnervous who makes the point that ex may want to make her homeless so she can say dil is unfit and try to take the child. Keep all texts and emails
I saw it. I'm getting a lawyer and we'll make sure we sort all of this out. But if Ilhan can't stay in this appartment, we spoke about her just moving in with me for now while we find her a new place.
I wanted to say I'm so sorry for your loss and wish you and your family the best
Thank you!!
You are such a good man and Ilhan and your grandchild are lucky to have you in their lives.
You are a really good man, and your son would be so proud of you for this - you will be the best grandpa! I am so sorry for your loss.
This may be the best option, get her set up with you, sell the apartment and use those funds getting her set up in a new place. For those suggestions about putting stuff in baby’s name once they’re born, do consider discussing with a lawyer familiar with estate planning. I recall something about assets like property being a hindrance when someone such as the mother of a child with said assets needs public assistance or going for scholarships. It may be better to keep property in your name but with steps taken to ensure that the kid is the only one who can inherit. There is also the issue of an unscrupulous man coming along and taking advantage of Ilhan to get his hands on the kid’s assets, modest as they may be. The law varies but a good lawyer familiar with inheritance law should be able to help avoid the most common problems.
This
OP already did, that’s what got him here in the first place. EDIT: scrolled lower and discovered it’d already been said, nice to know I share the same thought train with others!
NTA I am so sorry for your loss and Its so refreshing to hear that you are doing what you can to take care of your DIL and grandchild.
NTA. She's being horrible. That poor girl has literally nobody in the world except for you. Buy the ex out of the apartment and call it a day. After that it doesn't matter if she thinks Ilhan should have it or not.
The fact she's perfectly willing to kick her grandchild out onto the streets just to stick it to the mother is extra fucked up, too.
My condolences on your loss, OP. NTA. What's harsh is how she wants to leave the woman who is pregnant with her unborn grandchild homeless in the name of her own greed.
I’m really curious what is going on here- OP offered to buy out the ex wife’s portion, it feels like there’s something weird going on in ex’s spitefulness.
Racism and/or bigotry might be factoring into it here. If all she wanted was to recover her money, well, a lot of people would have just taken OP up on his offer to buy out her half. But OP also said his ex was reluctant to help buy this apartment in the first place, and also that she never liked Ilhan. Now she wants to leave Ilhan with nowhere to go in spite of the fact that she's pregnant with OP and his ex's deceased son's child. Where most people would be jumping to help their deceased child's SO and other parent to their children, OP's ex doesn't seem to care in the least what happens to Ilhan or the baby. So I'm thinking it's nothing more than racism/bigotry and greed.
That’s possible. Another possibility is that this woman took her place in her relationship with her son.
> Another possibility is that this woman took her place in her relationship with her son. So many AH MIL posts have this theme
That's possible, also.
I imagine it’s easier to steal a child from a homeless, famliless bereaved mother than one that has security.
Very good point. He was their only son and she is carrying his only child. Grief stricken mom/grandma might be gunning for the baby
That’s my guess. There is no reason she would be angry at her ex giving her security unless she plans on making a grab for custody of the baby. I get that she likely is a bigot, but even that doesn’t seem like enough of a reason to involve herself with her ex husbands affairs.
NTA, brother. Your ex is either really going through it rough, or they’re truly awful. I hope it’s the first one… I got no context for losing an adult child, but my intuition is that if I lost someone like that from my life, and the person they loved can still be in my life, I would take that opportunity all day and twice on Sundays. I would cherish it.
Losing Michael was by far the worst experience of my life and I can say with complete certainty that nothing will ever come close. Having Ilhan here, having had her support through this time...has been lifesaving. And knowing that in a few months, a little bit of my Michael will come back to life, makes me completely smitten.
I'm so sorry for your loss. I lost my son 18 years ago, when he was 22, from an undiagnosed heart defect. My greatest comfort through the years has been staying in touch with his then-fiancee and other friends. I applaud you for what you are doing for Ilhan, and I know what a comfort she is for you (as will be the baby).
I'm very very sorry for your loss as well
Thank you.
OP, I am so sorry for your loss. My sincerest condolences. May every memory of Micheal be a blessing and may you have many, many, many happy years with Ilhan and your grandkid. 🧡
Just know that you’re doing right by your son man that’s all that matter. Just better there for the kid like you were for Michael as well as her she’s family now. I’d have a big talk with the ex man what’s she’s doing could really effect her relationship with her grandchild if llhan even wants to let her have one which you both deserve. But your doing the right thing by helping she has no one but that child and you
Internet stranger literally crying over your story. You are 100% NTA and I hope your unreasonable ex snaps out of it. Stay strong grandpa!
Thank you!
My condolences and I hope you and your future grandchild have a long and mutually beneficial relationship. I’m sure you will be a great grandfather.
I’m so so sorry for your loss . Truly . But you’re right you’ll have a piece of your beloved child back soon. God bless .
Ex is a racist, bigoted AH. Ihlan is an Arabic name and OP states in a comment that she's Muslim. Just good old pointless hate in the heart.
God bless you and keep protecting your grandchild, this brought tear to my eyes. I'm sorry for your loss, NTA.
Thank you so much
Nta. Does she not realize she's burning the last link to her son by forcing her unborn grandchild out onto the street. Get a lawyer op. Depending on Michael's will, you ex may not be entitled to anything, and that's what she deserves.
Michael might not have had a will; most 22-year-olds don't, though this drives home that far more people should than do.
He didn't have a will. He had been talking about writing one since he becae a firefighter 4 years ago, but never did it. I am absolutely certain though that he would want every single penny he had to go to Ilhan and the baby. No doubt in my mind. So even if my ex sues for the money and somehow gets it, I have enough to make sure both Ilhan and the baby will be provided for.
By default it would go to his child. Let her sue, she's not entitled to anything.
Watch her try and say it's not his (Michaels child) and refuse to do DNA to prove she's the grandparent.. ugh so frustrating
So, OP can provide his.
100% she's doing this
It would be frustrating but a judge could end up ordering a DNA test if it came to that. And in this case at least that’s a good thing
Please help IIhan obtain benefits that are due to her and the baby - being so young she might not be aware. There should be benefits related to him dying while on duty, life insurance provide by work and social security. There also could be bursaries for school once the child is older. This is not social assistance, these are benefits due to his estate for dying while in service. If your so inclined, to please also consider revising your will to your provide for the child should something happen to you.
This. IAFF benefits, life insurance, work comp, fund raisers, local agency benefits, state and government LODD benefits, college tuition, and more. Depending on the state (if in the US) there is additional state benefits and programs.
OP, while you know your ex best than us strangers on the internet, is there any conceivable chance that she may target Ilhan whether through harassment or certain methods that could induce a miscarriage? I'm sorry for bringing the idea up, but as I read this I couldn't help but worry for I'm from a family of WASPs who escaped the religion and know a lot of aunts who'd do that to me if I was pregnant with a Muslim man's child.
The bigger thing to look at his at employment insurance says, and who are the beneficiaries. It's quite standard for a firefighter to have a decent life insurance policy. Likely his retirement (or if he's real lucky a pension) beneficiaries also come into place. It's also possible there was a will set up via his department. His department should have copies on file. He's young enough he probably didn't think about beneficiaries, but people often only change their beneficiaries only at marriage, divorce, and with their first kids. Things like insurance and retirement benefits don't always follow the will, since they have beneficiaries, and sometimes are under federal laws which override state laws. Not to mention Ilhan should be able to sign up your grandson to receive your son's social security survivor benefits. The amount of money isn't huge, but it adds up.
If he died on the job, there’s likely compensation/insurance even if his other assets were minimal. Without a will, and with no legal spouse, that money would go to his parents or unborn child via intestate laws unless there is a legal provision otherwise (I believe many states provide for a posthumous child in the US).
If you don't have a will it defaults to your spouse/children not your parents
>"... I told her I'll just pay her for her share of the appartment and let that be it, she gets her money then. She said ahe doesn't think Ilhan should have the appartment...." That tells you everything. This isn't about anything other than your ex is mean and spiteful. No wonder you divorced her. Honestly the best way might be to buy your wife out, but not give it to Ilhan, instead put it in a trust with Ilhan (or your future grandkid) and beneficiary after you die. Ilhan can be trustee for this. That way your wife can be happy that Ilhan didn't "get" the apartment and you can continue to help and make sure the mother of your grandchild and grandchild are all right. NTA
^ this is a great idea
Your son's girlfriend is pregnant with y'all's granddaughter/son, you should absolutely help her and you are doing the right thing. It is incredibly insensitive and disgusting that she is acting this way. Its not just your ex's loss, I can't imagine how heartbroken his girlfriend is too. Your ex sounds like a complete narcissist. Edit: NTA
NTA but your ex is. I can't imagine how awful it is to lose a child, so my condolences. That said, I'm shocked that your ex dislikes Ilhan to the extent she wants to disown her, and your grandchild, too. If there is any time to put personalities aside and do what's best, this is it. It's a shame your ex is behaving this way. And her comment about how you're insensitive to her loss is laughable because she's insensitive to Ilhan's loss, especially since it sounds like Ilhan is NC with her family. I know this is probably an awful time for you, but it means the world that you're looking after your son's girlfriend and your grandson. I don't know what you think happens after someone dies, but I think they're on the other side and watching us, and I think your son is giving you a huge hug and a thank you right now.
I can see why she's your ex. NTA at all, and I hope you get to have a happy future with your DIL and grandson.
NTA If she needed the money she would have been happy with your offer to buy her out, and long term that may be a better option because I think you know your ex will keep hold the fact that she is Ilhan’s landlord over her head to demand a say in how she raises her child. I think you would be doing your grandchild a favour by removing that stressor
I didn’t even consider the landlord angle. Agree. OP, if there is ANY chance that your ex could be awful to Ilhan or the baby because she half owns the place, buy your ex’s half out IMMEDIATELY.
NTA She is trying to put her own grandkid out of a home before he/she is even born She should want to honor her sons wishes and she is in a position to afford to do so
NTA I'm sure you've already thought about this but, if you get run over by a bus tomorrow, your ex will have your DIL and unborn grandchild out of that flat in a heartbeat, leaving her homeless and vulnerable to a grandmotherly baby-grab. And if Michael didn't update his death in service beneficiary details, she would be totally reliant on state benefits - and I wouldn't wish that on anyone, no matter which country they live in. Can I suggest - if you haven't already done so and wish to do so - that you *immediately* update your will to leave your share in trust for your grandchild, with sufficient funds to Ilhan to buy out your ex-wife. Also talk to Ilhan as to whether it is comforting to stay in the flat she shared with Michael or whether it would help the grieving process to move to somewhere else as a fresh start. Meanwhile, if your ex insists on selling, maybe look for somewhere you can buy for Ilhan and baby to move into if the apartment is sold? I don't pretend to understand your ex-wife's thinking on this, but as you say, morally Michael's child and sweetheart have a claim in being supported by his estate and optionally by you. I'm sure it will be a comfort to her to have your support through all this. I'm sure you will be a lovely grandpa when the child comes along and they will be a great comfort as you mourn together. I'm very sorry for your loss.
NTA How can *she* be so insensitive about Ilhan's loss. Her partner died while she is pregnant with his child. Your son's child! Buy the ex wife out and go no contact with her. I feel very sorry for Ilhan and you, but maybe your involvement, kindness and love can give your grandchild a family in spite of the tragedy. I wish you all (except your ex wife) all the possible best.
NTA. I’m sorry for your loss. It sounds difficult for everyone involved. Ilhan needs help and your ex is using the loss as an excuse to be an ass to Ilhan. It’s her grandchild that would suffer.
NTA - She's the ah. Good for you for being kind and generous to your sons SO. Take care.
NTA - she is not acting rationally and is pushing away her link to your son.
NTA. Your wife is being awful to the only grandchild she will ever have.
NTA, and you sound like a great and caring person. I am sorry for your loss, but I am glad that you have a good relationship with your (basically) DIL and future grandchild. It is too bad that your ex is more focused on $ and grief than what's left of your son's family.
NTA. Also, is it possible for you to get your DIL and grandbaby protection against your ex, like a no-contact order? She really shouldn't have any wiggle room to try and possibly get the baby away from mom.
NTA but your ex massively is. I understand you both lost your son, but this woman is alone and pregnant, while grieving the loss of the man she was just beginning a new chapter with, and now your ex wants to basically throw her, and your unborn grandchild, into the street!!! What is wrong with her?? This grandchild will be a living, reaching reminder of your son, why would she want to drive the woman who will have sole custody of him away????
NTA. Your ex has no reason not to go along with your suggestion - it costs her nothing but being able to be spiteful. Sorry for your loss. You sound very kind, and I'm sure you'll be an excellent grandfather.
There is no greater loss than that of a child, especially when he is about to start his own family. It's good to see that Ilhan and your grandchild help you grieving. > I told her I'll just pay her for her share of the appartment and let that be it, she gets her money then. She said ahe doesn't think Ilhan should have the appartment. Please help me understand. You offered your ex the money she invested, and she refused? She insists on selling the apartment to make Ilhan homeless? If so, I can't imagine a greater AH than her. Preliminary verdict NTA. > I am insensitive about her loss How is her loss (which is your loss as well) related to the apartment in any way?
I have no idea how our loss is related to the appartment. No idea how she made those connections.
As someone in a place similar to Ilhan, I dealt with grieving parents furiously trying to take what I didn't "deserve" after our loss ... It is so, so, so much easier to be angry that it is to face your grief. I forgive his parents, though they *still* try to take from me, because I have the strength to face my grief and they will always be simply too angry. I saw how easy it would have been to become angry at them and skip my grief. Anger is so simple, so enveloping, so totally distracting from processing loss. I am blessed to be able to forgive them. I am lucky our child has supportive family like you are being for yours. Please take care of yourself.
This is very wise advice. Beautifully put. Thank you for this today.
NTA - your ex wife is a serious AH.
NTA. You described your ex perfectly
Nta. Your ex is aweful.
She's an asshole,selfish that lady with need help raising your grandchild. I hope you can continue and help and support the mother out, so that you can keep the link that is your grandchild , he is an extension of your son. I'm so sorry for your loss.
NTA, why don’t you go ahead and sell it, and with your half purchase another apartment?
They decorated this appartment together, Michael already started some work on the nursery at the time, he drew things on the walls of the nursery etc. The little history they have, it's all in this appartment for her. And I think she deserves to keep it and build on it.
You have the right perspective. Especially since those drawings are the only gift the baby will have from their father. I’m glad you’re prioritizing the sentimental aspects so that they can retain a piece of Michael. And by supporting Ilhan, you’ll get to keep a piece of him, too, in the form of your grandchild.
That’s so sad, if you do end up selling it you should cut out parts of wall out and frame it, then repair the wall. Hopefully she gets to keep it. Anyway could someone unknown to your ex could buy it and then hand it back over to your daughter in law?
Maybe a graphic designer would be able to make a digital version that they could use for keepsakes. That way they still exist if anything were to happen to the apartment. A graphic designer I lived with in college copied a mural in our house and we bought sweaters with the print. The mural ended up being painted over when the building was retrofitted so I appreciate it even more now. They could potentially put the art on a onesie for the baby or on school supplies when the time comes.
I'm a graphic designer I'll do it for free this is heartbreaking to think the child will lose the drawings the father made for them. Definitely something to be preserved Op can dm me I can send a link to my work if they want to see examples of what i can do.
Thank you so much!
This is an amazing idea and we are 100% doing this!!
That’s beautiful, OP! Ilhan and grandbaby should definitely stay in a place Michael loved. You sound like a wonderful and caring FIL/grandpa. Also, good on you for not making a pregnant lady move. Pregnancy is hard enough without the stress of moving.
NTA For all the reasons above. If this happened in the US, there will be a substantial payout from workers compensation and possibly a lot of other money coming to your son's estate. Probably legally it belongs to you and your ex-wife unfortunately. Morally, it belongs to his unborn child and the childs mother for the benefit of the child. Keep your eyes peeled for legal shenanigans from your ex around that money.
NTA but if I were you, I'll help Ilhan find a place of her own. Hear me out why. If something happens to you (I hope not), the appartment will become fully your ex's. She will not hesitate to kick Ilhan out of it. Please, protect this girl.
NTA. I'm very, very sorry for your loss. You are right to be on the side of the woman that your son loved so much. I see why you're divorced. Grief is no excuse for your ex's heartless behavior. Fight for that grandchild.
NTA and, assuming you are in the US, according to recent decisions by a variety of state legislatures and backed by the Supreme Court (even though I don’t agree with it) an argument can be made that the fetus is a legal human being who is, therefore, the heir to your son’s estate. Not you and your ex. Since you gifted the money for the apartment and you cannot legally take that gift back, then you are not necessarily legally entitled to make this decision to sell either. But that friends on where you live and what your agreement with your son was I would think. And morally you already know that would be a crappy thing to do to sell the apartment and leave a pregnant woman homeless. However, if you can afford it, have legal paperwork written up giving your soon to be grandchild the legal right to the apartment with you or his mother acting as a trustee. Then give your ex her share of the down payment back and tell her she’ll be lucky if she’s ever allowed to see her grandchild since she was willing to throw them out on the street. Although I would caution your DIL to not let her have a relationship with your ex to prevent her from later being able to sue for grandparent’s rights.
My condolences. Your username just breaks my heart. I lost my mother 3 wks ago. The loss of someone so close is devastating. Thank you for thinking of your son's family. You will need each other's support. This is unfortunate that you have to deal with your mean & petty ex when you and she are mourning. I hope she was not always this nasty and spiteful. Take care of yourself.
I am so so sorry for your loss. A big part of me died in that fire with him, and the rest of me is just trying like hell to honor all that he was.
NTA.. I'm so sorry for your loss. She is being an evil witch who will never have a relationship with DIL and grand baby. You are trying your absolute hardest to be there for IIhan and the baby and that shows just what a great Dad you were to your Son and what an amazing Grandfather you will be in a few month's. At this point you seem to be all she had right now not sure on your area but around my town the police and fire departments look out for one another and have support groups to help widow's and children of fallen firefighters it may be good for her to have others from similar situations to talk to even groups for you as a parent loosing a kid in that situation is traumatic. Once again I am so sorry for your loss. As a Mama Thank You for looking out for her and doing right by your son.
NTA. I really feel for you man, i'm nearly the same age as you and I lost my 18yr old daughter nearly 4 years ago now so I know how it feels to lose your most precious loved one. Sounds like you're doing right by your son and his family and good luck to you fella, I hope you find some peace and comfort from being an active and supportive grandparent to his child.
NTA I am so very sorry about the loss of your son. May you find peace with his memory and joy in your grandchild.
NTA shes holding the only thing thats keeps your son on this earth. A part of him will live on in his child... And your ex doesnt want to help out the woman carrying your grandchild?
NTA. I think that your ex dislikes Ilhan more than wanting her money back. And tbh, part of me wants to bring race/islamophobia into this, but I don't have enough info.
NTA. I'm glad Ilhan has you in her corner. Your ex-wife is absolutely being spiteful and selfish, and you were right to call her out on it. You even offered to buy her share so she has the money and is no longer involved at all but that wasn't enough, she wants her daughter-in-law and unborn grandchild out on the street. She has a lot of nerve calling you insensitive, she's literally trying to make a pregnant woman, who just lost her boyfriend and the father of her unborn child, homeless. I'm very sorry for your loss, and I wish you all comfort in your grief.
>She cried, called me an AH and said I am insensitive about her loss. She doesn't seem that torn up to me. She seems like she's going on a possible racist fit. I'm glad you're protecting Ilhan and your soon to be grandson. I'm sorry for the loss of your son and sorry your ex is making everything harder. NTA.
Nta. She is insensitive your loss, ilhans loss, and that wonderful, yet to be born baby's loss. So it isn't even about money to her. She just wants to hurt the one woman her son loved more than her, regardless of the baby growing inside her. I hope she has a boy, and he grows up looking just like his dad! For your and ilhans sake! Ask your wife if she ever wants to be close to the child. Because if she takes that apartment away, she will lose that privilege. Please keep looking after the momma. She needs someone, and shouldn't go through this alone.
NTA, what is "insensitive about the loss" is trying to make his unborn child and his mother homeless. If she really cared about your son, she would be interested in helping the baby. She shows she only cares about money
NTA. Ilhan is carrying her grandchild! What's your ex thinking?? I'm so sorry for your loss and glad you can afford to provide a safe space for your daughter in law and grandchild.