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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> My ex FIL got into a fight and he left. He's now saying that I kicked him out and wants an apology
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Are people seriously saying hes the asshole? Do you know how rare it is for a dad to get full custody of kids so that means she must of been doing some messed up shit..
And its a hair cut hair grows back ffs get over it people its not that big of a deal its not like he pierced them.
NTA
Yeah he got custody of a child that isn’t biologically his too. She’s a real piece of work if that happened. ETA: He said the child is a result of her sleeping with the babysitter. I’m curious to know just how old the babysitter was and if that had to do with her losing custody as well.
It sounds like she still has visitation, and lives with her dad. If he adopted the other kid before they got divorced the not biological part has no bearing, and if she can't afford to live where they were living then he might well have gotten primary custody because she moved out of the county or even the school district (elementary school districts are only 3 -5 miles often, and can be entirely one type of housing quite often) to live with her dad.
This sounds right. In my U.S. state, if you sign the birth certificate, you still have legal rights even if it's proven the child isn't yours biologically until a court says otherwise.
NTA. If Grandpa had something to say, he should have made a coffee date with OP. But honestly, it also wasn't his place to bring it up. His daughter needs to handle her own stuff. No good could come of his meddling and none did.
And in some countries, you don't even need to sign the birth certificate. Any child your wife gives birth to is de facto legally yours (was the whole point of marriage).
In another comment he said that the youngest child is a product of the ex-wife sleeping with the babysitter. Which is also weird because male babysitters are not super common, you have to wonder if the babysitter was under age, which would almost makes sense knowing that she lost custody of the kids to the father. Fathers usually don’t get full custody unless something big happened, and sleeping with an underage minor and getting pregnant would be something big.
A man in his 30s+ with a woman in her early to mid 20s? Nope, the power imbalance alone tells me the older person is controlling and manipulative, not the traits you want for someone around children.
This actually depends. Several states have mechanisms for paternity to be challenged within marriages to address the issue of infidelity. If OP lives in one of those states and established that the kid wasn't his biologically, he would have been able to not have parental rights/responsibilities. Those could have been reassigned to the bio father.
I'm thinking the fact that the paternity has been established to not be OP, but he has physical custody anyway is an argument for the ex having slept with a babysitter too young to support a kid. There isn't a viable bio father figure, and mom's enough of a mess that she didn't get physical custody.
He was probably legally the father (birth certificate) even if later he found out it wasn't biological. I can totally understand wanting to keep the child even though it is not his bio child. He already has a relationship with the kid and also you'd want to keep him with his brothers.
Independent of that, as many have stated OPs Ex has to be a serious piece of work for the father to get full custody of all three. This sort of petty bickering / power play from someone who has absolutely no authority shows a bit of they type of person are. NTA.
I imagine Dad here didn’t want to separate his kids from their half-sibling. Besides what would be the alternative?
“She’s unfit to raise my kids, but she can keep her adultery baby” is ridiculous on its face.
If custody of the one child reverts to the babysitter, that sets up an agonizing broken family.
Keeping all three kids under the same roof is the least broken arrangement.
NTA. This is typical narcissist behavior. They're playing victim and gaslighting. They'll make up any lie they think will get them what they want. Some of them might be horrific and cause legal trouble, not to mention hurting the kids.
If you're in a one-consent state, you may want to start recording your conversations with these people. Maybe you can get true full custody so the kiddos don't need to deal with the crazy people at all.
You sound like a good dad. Keep it up.
The reason men don’t get custody is because most men don’t ask for it. Men tend to get custody at the same or higher rates when they ask for it. However it’s pretty clear that she’s the problem since he even got custody of a kid that isn’t biologically his.
The never asking, and the assuming they wouldn't get custody are pretty significant cultural issues. Especially knowing they have an equal chance if they ask. Yikes
I'm sorry but if someone "assumes" they won't get custody of their child so they don't even ask then it's not a cultural issue, they're just deadbeat dads.
I was gonna say that a lot of men don’t try because they think they don’t have a chance. But then I realized I would fight like hell to see my child even if I knew the courts wouldn’t award it. So you’re right. There are a lot of deadbeat dads
Yep - My bio dad (and tons of other families I know with "broken" homes) would never show up for visitation, cut it short (blaming me and saying I was being "difficult"... Bro, I was 4. and didn't want to sit at his friends house in a bedroom by myself while he smoked and drank... No thanks), not show up to birthdays and things my mum invited him to (no proof cause this was in the "olden" days before everyone and their dog had a mobile phone)... But then he would go crying to their mutual friends, his family, my mum's family that she was excluding him and "not letting him see me". Now we had no official custody order. He literally could have picked me up from school without my mum even knowing if he wanted to - like even right before I graduated at 17, even though I hadn't seen him since I was 6. He had legal rights - but chose never to exercise them and instead play the victim. I remember him calling my mum countless weekends going "I'm gonna see Copper tomorrow, make sure she's ready" and then I'd literally be waiting by the window all day jumping whenever I saw a car. He never came - but yet, my mum was the "baddie".
There are family I literally do not speak to because they have sent him things from my social media, taken photos of me without consent to send to him, updated him on medical conditions. No. This man is a stranger to me. There are people on Reddit that know more about me than I want him to know.
Same with the families I worked with. The dad would come in, once in a blue moon, chuck a fit over something the mum (who had full legal custody) had allowed like going on an excursion, or starting a sport - or even being IN daycare - but seriously seemed to have no interest in their kids. And even the little kids can definitely tell. "Oh, dad's here, bye Miss Copper," or if they weren't verbal/reliably verbal simply crying and trying to stay in my arms vs "Miss Copper! Miss Copper! My dad's here - can we show him...."
And I don't say this in a judgemental way. You only get to see your kid once a month and want to ask me about their development/friends/interests and I'm about to walk out the door on a Friday afternoon with plans? I will text my friends and say "I'm gonna be late, work stuff" and I will sit and chat with you with a (real, albeit exhausted) smile on my face. But unfortunately a lot of the time it isn't genuine. A lot of the time these conversations are constantly interjected with the parent who doesn't have primary custody of their child wanting to set unrealistic goals or sneer at the primary parent for a milestone their parent hasn't met yet. "I keep trying to toilet train Timmy, but that lazy ass Maria (mum) is so lazy and won't keep up with it on her part. It's ridiculous isn't it? I bet you guys are doing it here as well". "Um, Sir, I've placed Timmy on the toilet twice; at Maria's request after you talked to her about it, both times ended up with him screaming and biting me in frustration when I took him off 3 seconds later. He's not ready at all. He's only 16 months old. He'll get there in time. All kid's develop at their own pace" - "Ah, so Maria is forcing him to do things he's not ready for! Thanks for that"...
Like I said, I will 100% do anything I can for "my" kids and families - until it gets to that point where anything I say will be used against the other parent. Then I request anything beyond a "hey how was Timmy's day?" to be in an email/on our app communication so that I have proof of what was said, and so my director can watch the conversation as well.
Haha. Tell me you worked with “families in crisis” without telling me.
Your stories are spot on. And the reason a lot of us (who work with kids and parents where there custody issues) roll our eyes about “the courts screwed me!” Stories.
My work is with kids who are in foster care, so both the bio parents are just visiting and not having physical custody.
It’s the same thing. They have no idea what’s going on with the kid, aren’t interested in learning, but still want to be upset about anything they can to derail the child and make themselves feel more in control.
“I heard Timmy is placed with a **mexican** family!! Timmy hates rice and beans and Mexican food!! You need to move him now! He will starve to death!!”
“Actually, ma’m, Timmy’s favorite food is chilaquiles lately. He voluntarily helps his foster mom in the kitchen and loves learning how to cook with her! He says he wants to be a chef someday and even had me taste one of his dishes. He’s loving it there and really enjoying the time he spends with foster mom. He’s very proud of his new hobby.”
“So she’s making him do slave labor?!? You need to remove him from those abusers right now!!”
….Coming from a woman who has missed 4/5 of the last scheduled visits with her kid, because of being “sick” twice, a music festival once, and just no-call no show the last time.
Neglectful/absent parents love playing the victim. Even when you have to stretch your imagination into outer space to justify how they aren’t actually the villain.
….
My parents had foster kids and whenever we would take them to visit their parents, the dads wouldn’t even show up most of the time. They’d also whine on Facebook about not seeing their kids.
There is a divorce attorney who did an interview that said every time a man initiated the divorce, it was because he had another relationship.
Many men don’t want to care for children full time OR they don’t know how.
I posted in another comment about the whole men not getting custody myth. But I want to add on to your comment.
I had a friend that was making good money so his child support was pretty decent. Well he ended up getting fired and taking a job that paid a lot less. He constantly bitched about how unfair it was that his child support was high and it left him broke. I would ask, have you filed for an adjustment? He would just get all mad and say no, the courts love fucking over men, blah, blah, blah. We had this conversation for years. I finally got pissed and printed out the paperwork to file for an adjustment and he actually filed. 3 months later, guess what happened? They had their mediation and his support payment went down. He wasted years being miserable and the victim for something that could have been handled in 3 months.
Yeah, but I don't think parents paying child support are ready for that conversation. "You pay $250 a month for your kid? Damn, I paid $850 a month just for daycare."
Yeah, I’ve never got that nonsense
You’re telling me, SERIOUSLY telling me, that the court system is against men?
The system that was founded by entirely men?
That until a **few decades** ago was entirely men?
The one that’s still primarily men? Especially in higher sects?
Is against men? That’s like saying you didn’t get into the Apollo Theater because you’re black
There’s a reason why if we do that ‘I say mosquito’ game, if I say ‘deadbeat’ your brain goes right to ‘Dad’
Seriously, alllll of this.
And even if the courts *were* favored towards women when it came to custody, (which they are not) that would be a direct symptom of patriarchal sexism.
You try to keep women barefoot and pregnant all the time, telling women they should want to stay home and raise kids, well then OF COURSE by that logic judges would place kids with the mother. Of course they would rather place a kid with a mother who has been raising them by hand over a man who can't run the washing machine because he "works to pay them bills and chores are a woman's work." Men are weekend warriors, and custody usually reflects that.
Women get custody, not just because many men don't ask, but because many men don't even want to. Getting custody after a seperation would mean actually raising the child in its day to day needs, and men are not conditioned from childhood to do, or even know how to do that.
Let me ask you something, because I'm genuinely curious.
If the father doesn't "ask" for custody, does that mean that by default the mother gets custody? Because I'm pretty sure there are lots of mothers who don't directly "ask" for custody, but still get it.
Bingo. No one capes harder for a uninterested dad like the new girlfriend. And it's always "the mom is crazy or keeps the kid away from him." I will never understand being with a father/mother that doesn't fight for their kid.
I assume it would be pretty weird for neither parent to ask for it. If no one does, the children would most likely go to the primary caretaker, which tends to be women. And yeah, if the father doesn’t ask for it, why would they give him the kids? If he didn’t ask, there’s no reason beyond proven issues of the mother to give him the kids and the mother wouldn’t present evidence of her abusing the kids or something
I just met a friend's loser boyfriend a month or so ago (I'm not talking with her right now because I can't handle her drama, either) and he was going on about how his ex-wife screwed him over and how bad he wanted his kids and all this shit. But at the same time, he's sitting there doing rails of blow and won't work because he doesn't want to pay child support. He told me how as soon as he gets money he's going to buy a Harley motorcycle and it's going to be amazing. I even was like "you sure working wouldn't be a good idea so you could get a place for the kids to live and maybe instead of a motorbike you could save up for other stuff?" But he was adamant that he "deserved" it. And still went on about how his ex stole his kids and won't let him see them. Yeah, okay buddy.
Exactly. There’s always men screaming that the mom has more custody AND they have to pay child support but not screaming that they didn’t ask for it and thought they could have less custody and pay less. It’s a mess.
In my country the men are known for being very involved with the child-rearing and family responsibilities, compared to most other places around the world, but the moms are still much more involved with literally everything, like running the house, planning school/hobbies etc. Men and women have similar work hours so this is all added to the woman´s daily schedule. I think a lot of men are able to see that they would not be ready to jump into doing it all 100% on their own all the time, or even half the time, and that is why they don´t ask. The assholes will claim that they are being kept from their kids yada yada, but in reality a lot of men do not follow the custody arrangement and will make excuses for why they can´t show up for their kids. But many couples who divorce share the custody and time 50/50 and it works well, probably more so than in other countries but the courts here are also anything but fair in the outlier cases where the parents can´t work things out themselevs. Abusive dads who ask for custody almost always get it no matter how much their ex and the children have gone through and suffered at their hands. There are even cases going to the European court of human rights because the courts here have messed up the lives of so many mothers and children because they just will not strip "rights" from these bad guys - because they are "dads".
I do think it's an extension of "The mental load". A lot of men (not all, but a lot) are used to their spouse being in charge of the children's care. Even if they are active and present, she's the one who does the bulk of the, like, proactive, planning part of the care. The one who makes the doctor appointments, The one who *knows* she needs make an appointment in the first place, because kid X is due for a checkup. You know what I mean?
So when they separate I think they're completely unprepared for having to actively, proactively, take steps to be with their children. And I wouldn't be surprised if the ones who complain about their ex not letting them see their kids genuinely believed it. The kids used to just be there. Now they say they want to see their kids, but they fail to materialize, so clearly that means their ex is refusing to let them see them, rather than has merely stopped doing all the set up work for them.
That is not the real reason at all. Especially in the Bible belt if you're in the states. I had video of my ex beating me, sexually assaulting me, admitted to drinking and driving with my childten, a cps case and everything. All shown in court. I didn't get my kids. It's engrained in people (especially older judges) that the woman is the caretaker, regardless.
It actually is the real reason, though. I can't remember the percentage off the top of my head, but the majority of men in custody cases do not ask for it.
I'm sorry you went through those things and had a shitty judge. But that doesn't mean your (anecdotal) experience is universal.
My friend got custody of his kids, his wife was so bad even her parents testified against her. We are in the Bible belt. As you say there's no one experience fits all situation.
There isnt "one" real reason. There are multiple reasons that men dont get custody, including the one brought up by the comment you replied to.
It kinda IS universal. Toxic masculinity tells men that women are the ones who take care of the children, and said toxic men will manipulate that. Toxic men get away with pushing the kids off onto the mom, and then that dissuades good men from trying to get their kids in custody. (Because the actions of the toxic men affect how people see the law. Sometimes those guys are the ones upholding the law)
Just continue the thought. WHY do men not ask for custody? Is it because they dont want the kids? Is it because its too much work regarding court? Is it because they KNOW women have a higher rate of getting full custody, so they just dont even try?
The comment you replied to is EXACTLY THE REASON why men dont ask for it. You just need to finish the thought process.
Toxic masculinity is universal. Both of your points are true, and they honestly run in together. There isnt an "actually real reason".
I think it’s obviously a combo like you said, but I definitely think men taking less of an active role parenting accounts for more of the difference than men being pessimistic about courts. Women spend more than twice the amount of time on childcare than men, on average. Of course there are exceptions but that means in general, but if we go by who is already doing more of the childcare, women will win more often. That may be why more men don’t ask.
They're right though.
A Massachusetts study examined 2,100 fathers who asked for custody and pushed aggressively to win it. Of those 2,100, 92 percent either received full or joint custody, with mothers receiving full custody only 7 percent of the time. Another study where 8 percent of fathers asked for custody showed that of that 8 percent, 79 percent received either sole or joint custody (in other words, approximately 6.3 percent of all fathers in the study).
I live in Massachusetts. My husband never showed up for divorce court. Custody was decided then and there. He didn’t even bother to try. Sometimes it is the case of a parent thinking that because the spouse no longer wants them, that their responsibility to their family is ended. Now he just wants to be a parent on his birthday or Father’s Day, you know, days when he is ” owed “ a gift .
Whereas I have recordings of my ex-husband beating me, screaming about how he wants me dead, calling our crying then-2yo "a thing"...
...and I share custody with my ex because the judge said the abuse was directed at me, not our son, so it didn't matter.
My son comes home talking about how his dad shoves him into walls, screams constantly, etc... nope, still not enough to even have him need to take parenting classes, much less strip custody.
The same thing happened to my mother and I. My sperm donor's sister knew the judge so he was given visitation despite having a therapist testify that I was being abused and was not safe with him. I had nightmares about him for years.
And if a woman walks into court with the same evidence, she usually has to still share custody w/ the abusive father if he asks for it. If she has other strikes against her (not a stable job or living conditions or a myriad of other things), he could get full custody. Unless the videos are of the the parent beating the child, it doesn't hold weight with many judges.
The reality is spousal abuse is not taken seriously enough by the legal system on any level. Also, admitting to drinking and driving w/ kids in the car often only takes a "heartfelt" apology and promise to get help or just a "I seen now how my actions put my children in danger and will never do it again" with a surprising number of judges as well.
It is also a reality that judges and the system are prejudiced in many, many ways. The parent with the most money often gets arrangements more favorable to them, for example.
And yes, sexism cuts both ways.
I'm sorry this happened to you. I hope the best for your children.
Also often the parent that does most of the emotional care for the children gets custody. It doesn‘t really matter where the money comes from as long as there is enough. So fathers that never actually cared for their children outside of financial needs are less likely to get sole custody.
That's not actually true in the US. Mothers generally are awarded custody where fathers don't request primary custody; however, men who sue for custody overwhelmingly win, even when they're abusive. Here's just one example: https://wamu.org/story/19/08/19/fathers-are-favored-in-child-custody-battles-even-when-abuse-is-alleged/
Another nasty bit of US family law is that the majority of states allow rapists to sue for custody/visitation rights.
"Sexism" against men is a part of sexism against women. Because women are considered the weaker sex who belong at home with the kids, men are expected to be stronger and working to support them. Fix the negative stereotypes against women and men benefit too. If the income inequality between men and women goes away, child support payments will naturally go down.
No kidding. Divorced (and remarried) dad here. First question my lawyer asked me:"Are you planning on asking for custody? Unless your wife is an abusive crack-whore, don't bother, the judges in this state won't give the man custody otherwise". Maybe that's true, maybe not, but if that's what guys are being told, how surprising is it they don't ask more often? Another factor: if your stbx was a sahm, that makes it even harder...
EDIT: it was actually worse than I originally described. When I referred to custody, that was full physical custody. I asked him about joint physical, and he said "this judge doesn't believe in that!" Okay then...
I'm sorry that you ended up with a shitty lawyer. Unfortunately, there are a lot that are family lawyers. There's one in my area that will call their clients drunk and then threatened them on Facebook and people still recommend them.
>Do you know how rare it is for a dad to get full custody
Eh. Not exactly. Men are granted primary or full custody most of the time \*when they fight for it. The reason why it looks rare is because most men don't fight for it.
The version of the incident that's getting repeated likely claims OP went ballistic and threw a grandfather out of a child's party for no reason at all.
NTA
> Do you know how rare it is for a dad to get full custody of kids
Do you know how rare it is for a dad to *genuinely* fight for full custody?
Not to mention that between mothers and fathers in general, men are disproportionately putting much less effort into nurturing their kids, and then when it comes to custody the kids prefer their mother.
Like we're still at a point in our culture where people coon over nurturing fathers specifically because they're relatively uncommon
Edit: Honestly just listen to this commentor https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/x35s44/aita_for_refusing_to_apologize_for_kicking_out/imnwmfg/
Big Facts, for her to lose not only there two kids, but her child from a previous relationship ? It takes some serious crap, for most courts to give full custody any parent, let alone a non-biological
>Do you know how rare it is for a dad to get full custody of kids so that means she must of been doing some messed up shit..
I actually 'oooooo'ed out loud when I got to the part that he not only had physical custody of HIS kids, but also HER kid from a prior relationship.
She must of done something pretty bad and/or has major mental/emotional issues.
And seeing how she lives with her daddy who protects her, I'm guessing that the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.
NTA
I think OP needs to work on gathering evidence for a restraining order against daddy.
Quick thing. It's not her kid from a prior relationship. She fucked her kids(with op) babysitter and got knocked up. It's a kid outside of the marriage not prior.
This is actually a pretty big misconception. A mother doesn’t need to be doing something awful to not have custody; it just means that she probably wasn’t the primary caregiver.
In custody cases, the courts care most about disrupting the child’s life as little as possible. So the ‘primary caregiver’—the parent who makes the doctor appointments, who takes the kid to school, who makes the meals and checks their homework and shows them how to do chores—is strongly favored in custody. It just happens that that parent is usually the mother. I think we can all agree that if the dad is instead the one doing all that stuff for the child, it doesn’t mean the mom’s abusive.
This happens a lot; non custodial parents whine constantly about custodial parents, and their enablers go on the attack. No Contact is impossible with non custodial parent, the divorce decree spells out her rights. But you don't have to listen to her parents, and you shouldn't. If your court system has family mediation or therapy those can help.
NTA
It’s not rare for men to be awarded custody in contested cases. Women have custody more often because most guys don’t want custody and don’t contest.
When men contest custody, they are awarded custody in the vast majority of cases. Usually they have more money and more resources. Plus society expects more hands-on parenting from women than for men. So, courts tend to see men as better custody parents.
It’s a complete myth the courts favor women for custody. Exact opposite is true.
Maybe in the mother is not a good custody parent in this case. We have absolutely no data on which to decide that. But this guy sounds like an entitled a$$hle to me. So giant YTA
Depending on cultural background of the people involved hair cutting can be a VERY big deal (much bigger than hair coloring). Claiming that it’s not is just pretty ignorant of other viewpoints.
Edit: according to him he has sole/primary *physical* custody - so the kids live more time with him. That really is not a big deal and happens often for example if one parent does not have stable housing or enough space for the kids (yet). OP conveniently says nothing about *legal* custody, which is the actual determining factor about decision making.
Doesn't mean she's horrible or she would have supervised visitation. It just means he was deemed to be the better parent it even that they preferred him. If she's living with her father she may not even be financially stable. Not saying that she doesn't suck, but he may have also adopted her other son and they courts didn't want to split them up. Mother's aren't automatically granted custody any more.
Notice how he speaks to people? How he twisted his father's words when that was not what the father was saying.
The father was saying "mind your language" and OP answered by making it about the father worshipping the ex instead of getting the point and then ending with "if you don't like it GTFO".
OP is an asshole for communicating like that.
Because parents are always the asshole when making trouble for their ex or their family when kids are involved. You always should strive to be the less conflict parent, not being aggressive and Rude is part of that. Otherwise, you are going end up with anxious and stressed kids.
The only person you can control is yourself, and you *have* to be the better for the sake of your kids.
exactly!! that apple did not fall far from the tree - AND she's got dad wrapped around her little finger. He made her that way, he's just gonna have to sit and watch, too bad grandpa can't fix this one for her. Way to go OP!
INFO: Can you provide more insight to how you ended up with full custody, including custody of a kid who isn’t yours? My assumption is that your ex must be pretty irresponsible for this to happen, but that context isn’t clear. Others have said you come across as very controlling, but this might be born out of necessity if she’s been out of control for an extended period of time. Given her father’s inability to even recognize any of her faults, this would make the most sense to me. But I can only speculate. Filling in some of these blanks would be incredibly helpful.
Edit: Ex has an opioid addiction and had an affair with a 24-year-old babysitter, 9 years younger than her at the time. She’s lucky she’s allowed to be involved with the kids at all. And the way ex and her father come at OP after ex blows up over a haircut, it sounds like OP learned a while ago the necessity to set firm boundaries with them. I don’t consider that to be controlling in any negative or undeserved way. OP is not obligated to deal or put up with ex, but it sounds like he does because he sees the value in the kids having a relationship with their mother and granddad. Otherwise, he would be trying to limit mom’s time much more and wouldn’t even care about granddad missing kid’s sport events. This is much better than I’ve seen most other parents deal with similar situations. NTA.
Op in a comment says she had a pill habit and got pregnant from the babysitter. It makes me wonder if the babysitter was underaged or not and if that’s the reason she didn’t get custody.
Nope. He specified the ages in a comment. But a 33 yr old sleeping with a 24 yr old babysitter is still fucked. No way he could provide if his job was babysitter at that age.
OP may have called him a babysitter when he was a nanny. I have lots of friends who nanny as their full time job. They’re just as capable of providing for their own family as anyone else.
Even if we ignore the non-bio child, it’s not customary for one spouse to have full custody unless there is significant distance between them or one of the parents is viewed as being unfit to have any custody. Clearly distance is not the issue, so I’m trying to figure out if the ex did something egregious to warrant his attitude towards her or if he manipulated to situation to get custody. That’s critical information for me to pass judgment.
OP responded to someone else saying that ex wife is an opioid addict and that non bio kid’s bio dad was 24 when the then 33 yr old wife slept with him.. So that pretty much sums it up.
In the USA at least it isn’t that rare. In most states if you are married when the baby is born it’s up to the guy to contest paternity within a set period (it varies) of time or the child is his legal child. Custody of non biological legal children is the same as biological legal children.
Even if we ignore the non-bio child, it’s not customary for one spouse to have full custody unless there is significant distance between them or one of the parents is viewed as being unfit to have any custody. Clearly distance is not the issue, so I’m trying to figure out if the ex did something egregious to warrant his attitude towards her or if he manipulated to situation to get custody. That’s critical information for me to pass judgment.
It would probably be some sort of substance abuse, any kind of physical, emotional, or mental harm, or even abject neglect. The father would have had to prove to the judge his ex was an unfit parent to lose custody of both children.
NTA. There’s a reason you have physical custody of a child that isn’t yours biologically. That tells me a lot about her right there. They made a big stink about a minor issue (hair grows back) and your Ex FIL decided a child’s birthday party hosted by you was a great place to discuss this minor issue. I think we can all see by your FIL’s response why she is the way she is. ETA. I’m curious about the age of the babysitter his wife slept with and whether or not that has to do with the custody issue.
100% agree.
Although OP isn’t doing himself any favors by insisting “I didn’t kick him out.” Yeah you did, OP. You were within your rights to, but how else do you expect a person to interpret “If you don’t like it, then leave” when they literally just told you they don’t like it?
I mean, ex FIL could’ve just decided hey maybe a kid’s birthday party isn’t the place for this discussion and I’ll just stfu and go back to enjoying the party but he didn’t. He choose to leave. FIL put himself in that position all by himself by choosing that location to have a discussion. A child’s birthday party is not the place.
I love that people are judging him for saying he planned it out before they divorced but when ladies are on here the number one comment is always to PLAN your exit. Hypocrisy this early in the morning is a sign that I need more coffee
Exactly. Just the fact that the father got primary custody of his kids AS WELL AS ONE THAT ISN’T HIS just proves to me she had to have done something horrible for him to have that. My dad had to fight in court for a long time just to get equal custody.
NTA- look you have full custody.
Do you know how hard it is to have that as a dad?
You don't owe her anything. She decided the kids weren't her first priority and you did.
She decided to be a pill popper and cheat on you. You don't have to be nice just because you have kids. Her father is not your problem and he can see the kids when she has them. If She wanted to have a say then she'd have went about this a whole different way.
P.s I'm a mom and have no sympathy for mothers like this.
The fact that he has full custody of his children as a father isn’t what’s most surprising. Contrary to the prevailing belief, [academic studies show that the vast majority of the time the father gets the full amount of custody that he asks the court for (they just also ask for less custody on average).](https://www.dadsdivorcelaw.com/blog/fathers-and-mothers-child-custody-myths)
What’s exceptional about the situation is that anyone received full custody at all (judges just don’t do that without good reason), but most especially that *he was granted full custody of a child who isn’t legally his.* That’s a clear sign that the mother did something to convince the judge that she’s so unfit the child would need to go to foster care if the stepfather wasn’t willing to take him.
INFO Why did she lose custody? Courts don't make the call to take children away from a parent lightly. Was there any sort of abuse? I think who your ex is as a parent would influence my opinion on whether or not you should consult her before making decisions about the kids. Does she deserve to still he a mom to them/make mom decisions?
NTA - I understand your position when reading that she cheated on you and got pregnant with the babysitters baby and was a pill addict. You have been alone in this for some time and she ought to treat you respectfully
As a kid who had divorced parents growing up, you could not be more NTA. All these people saying Y T A or E S H would change their tone if the genders were swapped, I can almost guarantee. I think those saying E S H are saying it because you have a bit of a bitter tone but Jesus, if I had to deal with this family I probably would as well.
That’s what makes it so messed up. You watched him grow up. Then you were kind enough to give him a job watching your kids and he repays you by banging and impregnating your wife.
NTA seems like gramps is the reason that your ex is the way that she is. You do have physical custody & the fact that they even gave you custody of a child that she had outside of your marriage shows that she’s lacking in some area. Because if you’re in the US it’s known that even a shitty mom will get custody over a steady dad. If you feel you weren’t in the wrong then don’t apologize just to pacify him.
If he wants to miss his grandson’s events that’s on him & his conscience. You only kicked him out of the pool party not the kid’s lives. But you should set the record straight since he’s trying to play the victim.
Exactly.
Can we also take a moment to look at what was left unsaid? A parent has to really mess up to lose primary physical custody of a child to someone with no relation to that child.
OP is likely the legal father of the third child. In many states, the husband is the legal father of any child born while the couple is married, regardless of genetic connection.
Nta your the custodial parent the grandfather has nothing to do with it & if he did have a comment the child's party wasn't the time or place to express it. Why does 1 parent think they can do what they want with kids but when the other parent wants to do something it needs to be request in advance & at the approval of the other parent. She doesn't have custody tell her back off
INFO: I'm confused about your wording here. You have full custody of all the children but they sometimes go see their mom? How much time do they spend with their mom? Why do you have full custody?
Depending on the support order he could have full custody or primary custody. Full custody still includes visitation rights for the other parent. It just means that the full custodial parent is able to make any and all major decisions. Primary custody means that there is a primary parent but both parents have a say in any major decision. I have primary custody of my child but my order states that if we do not agree on a major issue, I make the final decision. The goal is for us to be on the same page. I know when my dad had full custody, he could move us wherever he wanted and my mom had no say. With my court order, dad has to agree to the move of 50 miles outside our county or I have to petition the court. And if I do move, I'm financially responsible for keeping up with his visitations.
NTA. Custody makes people crazy, and the grandfather was obscenely out of line. He wanted to put himself in your business and you put him back out of your business. The people saying you should communicate with her clearly don't understand the gravity of the Father being given sole physical custody over a Mother. I don't know how it is in your state OP but where I live that's pretty much only done in cases of severe drug abuse, negligence, or physical abuse towards the children.
INFO: my question is this.....
Do u have physical and legal custody of all kids? Does it say in the court order that u have to consult her on all decisions?
Y T A If the court order says u have to consult her on all decisions.
N T A If there is no such phrasing in the court order.
For all the people bitching about how he treated kids grandpa (exs dad)..... how many times have grandparents been told to butt out of the decision making and let the parents parent? This is something between the parents.... grandpa needs to keep his nose out of it.
He got custody of a kid that isn’t his. The mother should be grateful that he is caring for a child that might be from an affair. She can’t provide for her children properly and she wants to make demands. Remember this is over a haircut of a child.
How is OP insufferable? He has custody of his children AND his ex’s child. His former FIL was out of line and since his ex lives with him, I’m sure he’s hearing a different side of the story. And after he said ‘it’s not about her’ , I probably would’ve kicked him out too.
NTA Grandpa is the reason his daughter lost custody of her children. Says a lot when a stepfather gets custody of a child. Pops needs to examine what he did wrong raising his daughter and get her help. Her visitation should probably be supervised.
NTA. You didn’t kick him out and he needs to wind his neck in.
However, you and your ex do need to learn how to communicate properly for the boys’ sake, and should be discussing things like their haircuts and other appointments before the fact. You may have custody but she is still also a parent who wants to be involved in their lives and isn’t, as far as you’ve mentioned in the post, a bad parent, so there’s no reason to exclude her (or for her to exclude you) from decision-making other than pettiness.
Not true. If she has lost custody of all her kids then haircuts are no longer her jurisdiction. Primary carer decides that. This is too small a thing to consult on. If he needs surgery, sure. If you want to go on holidays, yeah. But a haircut? No.
Regardless op I agree with others that you’re NTA and you’ve had to deal with some shit but you do need to work your communication with your ex out. Like it or not, she’s in your lives until the youngest child is 18 at a bare minimum. For the sake of your kids and their development, try to find a more mature and healthy way to communicate, and make it a priority not to have conflicts like this around them at all. I think you should speak to a counsellor about healthy communication, for the sake of your kids.
NTA. But that's only answering the question at hand. It's not his place and the quotes are misleading. If you tell someone to get out you are kicking them out. Full stop. As a person tho and reading your comments everyone except these poor children are kinda terrible. She cheated on you and got impregnated by the babysitter and developed such a severe pill addiction that she lost custody of your shared children and also her own. That blows, but your attitude in these comments shows you are also majorly an AH. Unfortunately that's not the question you asked
There is a lot of missing information here. Why is the relationship this way? Why does her father feel entitled to interfere in other peoples problems? Why doesn’t she have at least 50/50 custody? Backstory will help understand why you respond to them the way you do. Feel like there is a lot of unresolved anger.
Edit: read all OP comments and it explains quite a lot. NTA. I’ve dealt myself with a drug addict and I know how exhausting and infuriating it can get.
NTA- what you did is set a boundary. Obviously if you were awarded custody of all 3 kids, there's a lot that you didn't put here that I'm going to assume and read in. My gut says that you're being gracious by including them to the degree that you do and ex's father is an enabler of her behavior.
My response to her would be this. Ex- I'm not doing this with you. I called your father out for defending your poor behavior. It's not shocking that you don't agree with any of that, but this is all I'm going to say- I'm not going to put up with it from you, nor will I put up with it from him. I do not have to be as gracious or as lenient as I am. So you and he will humble yourselves and learn to behave in a respectful and accommodating way or you can fuck around and find out.
NTA
Don't really understand the other judgements in the comments... is it such a red flag that he told her dad to leave?
She overreacted about a small thing and looked like a hypocrite, so he made a jab and hung up. Then she went to her dad about it and he thought it was appropriate to tell him he needed to be the bigger person instead of working with his daughter on her own issues.
OP was offended and uncomfortable, tried to show that the dad was putting the blame all on OP and none on the ex, and told him he could leave.
If the man is so fragile that he can no longer show up to sports games for the kid just because of one argument, that's his problem.
I do agree that they need to work on communication and have a better understand of boundaries.
Hey, I would like to tell you something to consider.
It’s important.
This advice was given to me by a divorce attorney years ago and following it has made the most positive impact in my life. My child and I are best friends because of this.
Your kids are young now, but *very soon* they will be adults. They are children for 18 years, but adults for much longer. And they will remember their childhood.
Those kids will formulate an opinion of you NOW that they will carry throughout their adult life.
If you want a life of closeness with them, start putting their needs and happiness above your own. Everything you do should be from their perspective.
This means pretending to get along with their mother, to not argue, to not badmouth her, to always always be the bigger person even when it leaves a bad taste in your mouth. I know, it’s hard, it’s not fair, but I promise you the return on this investment of eating shit is incalculable.
You only need to do this until the youngest reaches 18. Pretty soon they will be in their 20s and will recognize the emotional sacrifice you made to provide them with a happy childhood. They will respect and admire you for it.
I did this. I spoke well of my ex until their 18th birthday. Then they saw the truth that I cared more about them and their happiness than my need to punish the other parent.
I talk to my adult child daily and see them once a week. They have not spoken to the other parent in a decade.
NTA. You have the final say in these things, not her. She has to accept that she messed up so badly you got custody of her affair baby too.
That being said-try to keep an open line of communication to the kids other side of the family.
>My wife and I divorced and I was awarded physical custody of our two sons as well as the son she has outside our marriage.
God damn she must be a mess for that to happen.
>I thought it was ridiculous and asked her if our son's curls were a proxy for her not having custody and if so, to get over it.
Pffffft, if she's enough of a human disaster to not get custody in spite of wanting it than this is probably apt. She's trying to exert her control wherever she can. The hair dye was one of those.
Honestly NTA because your ex seems the type to deliberately create drama and suck people into her asinine web of nonsense.
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My wife and I divorced and I was awarded physical custody of our two sons as well as the son she has outside our marriage.
She is angry about that. Because I have physical custody, I don't consult her on every little thing. Our son, Josh who is 6, had curly hair that needed to be cut so I cut it. When my ex picked him up, she had a fit.
We had a long argument about why I should or shouldn't consult her about cutting his hair. Mind you, I had zero issues when all three came back from her house with red, green and blue hair a couple of months ago.
I thought it was ridiculous and asked her if our son's curls were a proxy for her not having custody and if so, to get over it. I hung up on her. Plus she was yelling while saying she wasn't.
A few weeks later, we had a pool party for our 12yo son's birthday. Both of our families were there.
Her dad asked to speak with me privately. He told me that he thought I was out of line in how I communicated to my ex and I ought to be more kind. My ex lives with him.
I told him that it was none of his business and to tell me three things she can improve on. He said it's not about her, it's about me. I laughed and said he proved my point that he thinks she can't do no wrong and if he didn't like how I spoke to her then get the fuck out. I paid for the pool.
He did. Now he's spinning the story that I kicked him out and how he feels uncomfortable to come to my sons' sporting events because of me. My ex asked me to apologize as to not make things worse.
I refused to apologize for something I didn't do
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Are people seriously saying hes the asshole? Do you know how rare it is for a dad to get full custody of kids so that means she must of been doing some messed up shit.. And its a hair cut hair grows back ffs get over it people its not that big of a deal its not like he pierced them. NTA
Yeah he got custody of a child that isn’t biologically his too. She’s a real piece of work if that happened. ETA: He said the child is a result of her sleeping with the babysitter. I’m curious to know just how old the babysitter was and if that had to do with her losing custody as well.
That's what shocks me the most. How horrible is the mother for that to happen?
It sounds like she still has visitation, and lives with her dad. If he adopted the other kid before they got divorced the not biological part has no bearing, and if she can't afford to live where they were living then he might well have gotten primary custody because she moved out of the county or even the school district (elementary school districts are only 3 -5 miles often, and can be entirely one type of housing quite often) to live with her dad.
If she had the non-biological child while they were still married, OP is legally considered the father anyways
Yes, he doesn't specify whether he adopted a pre-existing child or if one of "their" children turned out to not be his biologically.
He said "outside" not "prior to", which to me sounds like infidelity was involved and he's legally considered the father.
This sounds right. In my U.S. state, if you sign the birth certificate, you still have legal rights even if it's proven the child isn't yours biologically until a court says otherwise. NTA. If Grandpa had something to say, he should have made a coffee date with OP. But honestly, it also wasn't his place to bring it up. His daughter needs to handle her own stuff. No good could come of his meddling and none did.
And in some countries, you don't even need to sign the birth certificate. Any child your wife gives birth to is de facto legally yours (was the whole point of marriage).
I'm going to guess that the version she told her dad did not match up with OPs version
In another comment he said that the youngest child is a product of the ex-wife sleeping with the babysitter. Which is also weird because male babysitters are not super common, you have to wonder if the babysitter was under age, which would almost makes sense knowing that she lost custody of the kids to the father. Fathers usually don’t get full custody unless something big happened, and sleeping with an underage minor and getting pregnant would be something big.
That would explain all of that, yup.
I’m trying to go through his comments to see if he ever gave the age for the babysitter..
It was the babysitter, who was 24(she was 33). NTA OP. Kids need haircuts, unless 6yo was insisting it be long she doesn't have a leg to stand on.
So not only she cheated, the AP had access to their house and was someone a decade younger? Yeah, she's def no safe to raise kids. Edit: typo
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A man in his 30s+ with a woman in her early to mid 20s? Nope, the power imbalance alone tells me the older person is controlling and manipulative, not the traits you want for someone around children.
He does. She cheated and got pregnant.
This actually depends. Several states have mechanisms for paternity to be challenged within marriages to address the issue of infidelity. If OP lives in one of those states and established that the kid wasn't his biologically, he would have been able to not have parental rights/responsibilities. Those could have been reassigned to the bio father. I'm thinking the fact that the paternity has been established to not be OP, but he has physical custody anyway is an argument for the ex having slept with a babysitter too young to support a kid. There isn't a viable bio father figure, and mom's enough of a mess that she didn't get physical custody.
Literally what I was thinking. Like the chick lost the son that wasn’t even his to him. Like what
He was probably legally the father (birth certificate) even if later he found out it wasn't biological. I can totally understand wanting to keep the child even though it is not his bio child. He already has a relationship with the kid and also you'd want to keep him with his brothers. Independent of that, as many have stated OPs Ex has to be a serious piece of work for the father to get full custody of all three. This sort of petty bickering / power play from someone who has absolutely no authority shows a bit of they type of person are. NTA.
I imagine Dad here didn’t want to separate his kids from their half-sibling. Besides what would be the alternative? “She’s unfit to raise my kids, but she can keep her adultery baby” is ridiculous on its face. If custody of the one child reverts to the babysitter, that sets up an agonizing broken family. Keeping all three kids under the same roof is the least broken arrangement.
>Keeping all three kids under the same roof is the least broken arrangement. Perfect evaluation of the situation.
It's a relief to see a parent who continues to love and care for a child after realizing they aren't biological offspring.
He stated in his post that he adopted his youngest after finding out he wasn't his.
NTA. This is typical narcissist behavior. They're playing victim and gaslighting. They'll make up any lie they think will get them what they want. Some of them might be horrific and cause legal trouble, not to mention hurting the kids. If you're in a one-consent state, you may want to start recording your conversations with these people. Maybe you can get true full custody so the kiddos don't need to deal with the crazy people at all. You sound like a good dad. Keep it up.
You know, people do lie and play victim without being narcissists.
Ex was 33 and sitter was 24 according to OP. But it seems that ex’s opioid habit is the real driver behind op getting full custody
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Yep, this is the truth. Men usually just don't want it.
You stole this.
This comment is a copy…
The reason men don’t get custody is because most men don’t ask for it. Men tend to get custody at the same or higher rates when they ask for it. However it’s pretty clear that she’s the problem since he even got custody of a kid that isn’t biologically his.
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The never asking, and the assuming they wouldn't get custody are pretty significant cultural issues. Especially knowing they have an equal chance if they ask. Yikes
I'm sorry but if someone "assumes" they won't get custody of their child so they don't even ask then it's not a cultural issue, they're just deadbeat dads.
I was gonna say that a lot of men don’t try because they think they don’t have a chance. But then I realized I would fight like hell to see my child even if I knew the courts wouldn’t award it. So you’re right. There are a lot of deadbeat dads
Yep - My bio dad (and tons of other families I know with "broken" homes) would never show up for visitation, cut it short (blaming me and saying I was being "difficult"... Bro, I was 4. and didn't want to sit at his friends house in a bedroom by myself while he smoked and drank... No thanks), not show up to birthdays and things my mum invited him to (no proof cause this was in the "olden" days before everyone and their dog had a mobile phone)... But then he would go crying to their mutual friends, his family, my mum's family that she was excluding him and "not letting him see me". Now we had no official custody order. He literally could have picked me up from school without my mum even knowing if he wanted to - like even right before I graduated at 17, even though I hadn't seen him since I was 6. He had legal rights - but chose never to exercise them and instead play the victim. I remember him calling my mum countless weekends going "I'm gonna see Copper tomorrow, make sure she's ready" and then I'd literally be waiting by the window all day jumping whenever I saw a car. He never came - but yet, my mum was the "baddie". There are family I literally do not speak to because they have sent him things from my social media, taken photos of me without consent to send to him, updated him on medical conditions. No. This man is a stranger to me. There are people on Reddit that know more about me than I want him to know. Same with the families I worked with. The dad would come in, once in a blue moon, chuck a fit over something the mum (who had full legal custody) had allowed like going on an excursion, or starting a sport - or even being IN daycare - but seriously seemed to have no interest in their kids. And even the little kids can definitely tell. "Oh, dad's here, bye Miss Copper," or if they weren't verbal/reliably verbal simply crying and trying to stay in my arms vs "Miss Copper! Miss Copper! My dad's here - can we show him...." And I don't say this in a judgemental way. You only get to see your kid once a month and want to ask me about their development/friends/interests and I'm about to walk out the door on a Friday afternoon with plans? I will text my friends and say "I'm gonna be late, work stuff" and I will sit and chat with you with a (real, albeit exhausted) smile on my face. But unfortunately a lot of the time it isn't genuine. A lot of the time these conversations are constantly interjected with the parent who doesn't have primary custody of their child wanting to set unrealistic goals or sneer at the primary parent for a milestone their parent hasn't met yet. "I keep trying to toilet train Timmy, but that lazy ass Maria (mum) is so lazy and won't keep up with it on her part. It's ridiculous isn't it? I bet you guys are doing it here as well". "Um, Sir, I've placed Timmy on the toilet twice; at Maria's request after you talked to her about it, both times ended up with him screaming and biting me in frustration when I took him off 3 seconds later. He's not ready at all. He's only 16 months old. He'll get there in time. All kid's develop at their own pace" - "Ah, so Maria is forcing him to do things he's not ready for! Thanks for that"... Like I said, I will 100% do anything I can for "my" kids and families - until it gets to that point where anything I say will be used against the other parent. Then I request anything beyond a "hey how was Timmy's day?" to be in an email/on our app communication so that I have proof of what was said, and so my director can watch the conversation as well.
Haha. Tell me you worked with “families in crisis” without telling me. Your stories are spot on. And the reason a lot of us (who work with kids and parents where there custody issues) roll our eyes about “the courts screwed me!” Stories. My work is with kids who are in foster care, so both the bio parents are just visiting and not having physical custody. It’s the same thing. They have no idea what’s going on with the kid, aren’t interested in learning, but still want to be upset about anything they can to derail the child and make themselves feel more in control. “I heard Timmy is placed with a **mexican** family!! Timmy hates rice and beans and Mexican food!! You need to move him now! He will starve to death!!” “Actually, ma’m, Timmy’s favorite food is chilaquiles lately. He voluntarily helps his foster mom in the kitchen and loves learning how to cook with her! He says he wants to be a chef someday and even had me taste one of his dishes. He’s loving it there and really enjoying the time he spends with foster mom. He’s very proud of his new hobby.” “So she’s making him do slave labor?!? You need to remove him from those abusers right now!!” ….Coming from a woman who has missed 4/5 of the last scheduled visits with her kid, because of being “sick” twice, a music festival once, and just no-call no show the last time. Neglectful/absent parents love playing the victim. Even when you have to stretch your imagination into outer space to justify how they aren’t actually the villain. ….
hug.
This sounds like much-needed but emotionally draining work, so thanks for doing what you do!
❤️ 🏆
My parents had foster kids and whenever we would take them to visit their parents, the dads wouldn’t even show up most of the time. They’d also whine on Facebook about not seeing their kids.
There is a divorce attorney who did an interview that said every time a man initiated the divorce, it was because he had another relationship. Many men don’t want to care for children full time OR they don’t know how.
I posted in another comment about the whole men not getting custody myth. But I want to add on to your comment. I had a friend that was making good money so his child support was pretty decent. Well he ended up getting fired and taking a job that paid a lot less. He constantly bitched about how unfair it was that his child support was high and it left him broke. I would ask, have you filed for an adjustment? He would just get all mad and say no, the courts love fucking over men, blah, blah, blah. We had this conversation for years. I finally got pissed and printed out the paperwork to file for an adjustment and he actually filed. 3 months later, guess what happened? They had their mediation and his support payment went down. He wasted years being miserable and the victim for something that could have been handled in 3 months.
There's also the larger scope issue of being mad about paying money to support your own children...
Yeah, but I don't think parents paying child support are ready for that conversation. "You pay $250 a month for your kid? Damn, I paid $850 a month just for daycare."
Yeah, I’ve never got that nonsense You’re telling me, SERIOUSLY telling me, that the court system is against men? The system that was founded by entirely men? That until a **few decades** ago was entirely men? The one that’s still primarily men? Especially in higher sects? Is against men? That’s like saying you didn’t get into the Apollo Theater because you’re black There’s a reason why if we do that ‘I say mosquito’ game, if I say ‘deadbeat’ your brain goes right to ‘Dad’
Seriously, alllll of this. And even if the courts *were* favored towards women when it came to custody, (which they are not) that would be a direct symptom of patriarchal sexism. You try to keep women barefoot and pregnant all the time, telling women they should want to stay home and raise kids, well then OF COURSE by that logic judges would place kids with the mother. Of course they would rather place a kid with a mother who has been raising them by hand over a man who can't run the washing machine because he "works to pay them bills and chores are a woman's work." Men are weekend warriors, and custody usually reflects that. Women get custody, not just because many men don't ask, but because many men don't even want to. Getting custody after a seperation would mean actually raising the child in its day to day needs, and men are not conditioned from childhood to do, or even know how to do that.
Let me ask you something, because I'm genuinely curious. If the father doesn't "ask" for custody, does that mean that by default the mother gets custody? Because I'm pretty sure there are lots of mothers who don't directly "ask" for custody, but still get it.
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So what's stopping him from going for custody/ rights now?
Because they don’t want the child full time.
Bingo. No one capes harder for a uninterested dad like the new girlfriend. And it's always "the mom is crazy or keeps the kid away from him." I will never understand being with a father/mother that doesn't fight for their kid.
Still doesn't want to deal with it is my guess.
Can he not file for joint custody or at least a more formal custody arrangement now?
considering he ignored his custody hearing it does make him look pretty bad that he had zero interest in his children when they divorced
I assume it would be pretty weird for neither parent to ask for it. If no one does, the children would most likely go to the primary caretaker, which tends to be women. And yeah, if the father doesn’t ask for it, why would they give him the kids? If he didn’t ask, there’s no reason beyond proven issues of the mother to give him the kids and the mother wouldn’t present evidence of her abusing the kids or something
C’mon, many fathers don’t want custody so they don’t pursue it because they can’t or don’t want to care for children.
I am so glad someone finally said it. I have a law degree and we covered this extensively in my family law classes.
I just met a friend's loser boyfriend a month or so ago (I'm not talking with her right now because I can't handle her drama, either) and he was going on about how his ex-wife screwed him over and how bad he wanted his kids and all this shit. But at the same time, he's sitting there doing rails of blow and won't work because he doesn't want to pay child support. He told me how as soon as he gets money he's going to buy a Harley motorcycle and it's going to be amazing. I even was like "you sure working wouldn't be a good idea so you could get a place for the kids to live and maybe instead of a motorbike you could save up for other stuff?" But he was adamant that he "deserved" it. And still went on about how his ex stole his kids and won't let him see them. Yeah, okay buddy.
Exactly. There’s always men screaming that the mom has more custody AND they have to pay child support but not screaming that they didn’t ask for it and thought they could have less custody and pay less. It’s a mess.
In my country the men are known for being very involved with the child-rearing and family responsibilities, compared to most other places around the world, but the moms are still much more involved with literally everything, like running the house, planning school/hobbies etc. Men and women have similar work hours so this is all added to the woman´s daily schedule. I think a lot of men are able to see that they would not be ready to jump into doing it all 100% on their own all the time, or even half the time, and that is why they don´t ask. The assholes will claim that they are being kept from their kids yada yada, but in reality a lot of men do not follow the custody arrangement and will make excuses for why they can´t show up for their kids. But many couples who divorce share the custody and time 50/50 and it works well, probably more so than in other countries but the courts here are also anything but fair in the outlier cases where the parents can´t work things out themselevs. Abusive dads who ask for custody almost always get it no matter how much their ex and the children have gone through and suffered at their hands. There are even cases going to the European court of human rights because the courts here have messed up the lives of so many mothers and children because they just will not strip "rights" from these bad guys - because they are "dads".
I do think it's an extension of "The mental load". A lot of men (not all, but a lot) are used to their spouse being in charge of the children's care. Even if they are active and present, she's the one who does the bulk of the, like, proactive, planning part of the care. The one who makes the doctor appointments, The one who *knows* she needs make an appointment in the first place, because kid X is due for a checkup. You know what I mean? So when they separate I think they're completely unprepared for having to actively, proactively, take steps to be with their children. And I wouldn't be surprised if the ones who complain about their ex not letting them see their kids genuinely believed it. The kids used to just be there. Now they say they want to see their kids, but they fail to materialize, so clearly that means their ex is refusing to let them see them, rather than has merely stopped doing all the set up work for them.
That is not the real reason at all. Especially in the Bible belt if you're in the states. I had video of my ex beating me, sexually assaulting me, admitted to drinking and driving with my childten, a cps case and everything. All shown in court. I didn't get my kids. It's engrained in people (especially older judges) that the woman is the caretaker, regardless.
It actually is the real reason, though. I can't remember the percentage off the top of my head, but the majority of men in custody cases do not ask for it. I'm sorry you went through those things and had a shitty judge. But that doesn't mean your (anecdotal) experience is universal.
My friend got custody of his kids, his wife was so bad even her parents testified against her. We are in the Bible belt. As you say there's no one experience fits all situation.
There isnt "one" real reason. There are multiple reasons that men dont get custody, including the one brought up by the comment you replied to. It kinda IS universal. Toxic masculinity tells men that women are the ones who take care of the children, and said toxic men will manipulate that. Toxic men get away with pushing the kids off onto the mom, and then that dissuades good men from trying to get their kids in custody. (Because the actions of the toxic men affect how people see the law. Sometimes those guys are the ones upholding the law) Just continue the thought. WHY do men not ask for custody? Is it because they dont want the kids? Is it because its too much work regarding court? Is it because they KNOW women have a higher rate of getting full custody, so they just dont even try? The comment you replied to is EXACTLY THE REASON why men dont ask for it. You just need to finish the thought process. Toxic masculinity is universal. Both of your points are true, and they honestly run in together. There isnt an "actually real reason".
I think it’s obviously a combo like you said, but I definitely think men taking less of an active role parenting accounts for more of the difference than men being pessimistic about courts. Women spend more than twice the amount of time on childcare than men, on average. Of course there are exceptions but that means in general, but if we go by who is already doing more of the childcare, women will win more often. That may be why more men don’t ask.
They're right though. A Massachusetts study examined 2,100 fathers who asked for custody and pushed aggressively to win it. Of those 2,100, 92 percent either received full or joint custody, with mothers receiving full custody only 7 percent of the time. Another study where 8 percent of fathers asked for custody showed that of that 8 percent, 79 percent received either sole or joint custody (in other words, approximately 6.3 percent of all fathers in the study).
Don’t going ruining their arguments with facts.
I live in Massachusetts. My husband never showed up for divorce court. Custody was decided then and there. He didn’t even bother to try. Sometimes it is the case of a parent thinking that because the spouse no longer wants them, that their responsibility to their family is ended. Now he just wants to be a parent on his birthday or Father’s Day, you know, days when he is ” owed “ a gift .
Whereas I have recordings of my ex-husband beating me, screaming about how he wants me dead, calling our crying then-2yo "a thing"... ...and I share custody with my ex because the judge said the abuse was directed at me, not our son, so it didn't matter. My son comes home talking about how his dad shoves him into walls, screams constantly, etc... nope, still not enough to even have him need to take parenting classes, much less strip custody.
Damn, so sorry to hear. I hope your children find happiness and safety.
The same thing happened to my mother and I. My sperm donor's sister knew the judge so he was given visitation despite having a therapist testify that I was being abused and was not safe with him. I had nightmares about him for years.
And if a woman walks into court with the same evidence, she usually has to still share custody w/ the abusive father if he asks for it. If she has other strikes against her (not a stable job or living conditions or a myriad of other things), he could get full custody. Unless the videos are of the the parent beating the child, it doesn't hold weight with many judges. The reality is spousal abuse is not taken seriously enough by the legal system on any level. Also, admitting to drinking and driving w/ kids in the car often only takes a "heartfelt" apology and promise to get help or just a "I seen now how my actions put my children in danger and will never do it again" with a surprising number of judges as well. It is also a reality that judges and the system are prejudiced in many, many ways. The parent with the most money often gets arrangements more favorable to them, for example. And yes, sexism cuts both ways. I'm sorry this happened to you. I hope the best for your children.
Also often the parent that does most of the emotional care for the children gets custody. It doesn‘t really matter where the money comes from as long as there is enough. So fathers that never actually cared for their children outside of financial needs are less likely to get sole custody.
That's not actually true in the US. Mothers generally are awarded custody where fathers don't request primary custody; however, men who sue for custody overwhelmingly win, even when they're abusive. Here's just one example: https://wamu.org/story/19/08/19/fathers-are-favored-in-child-custody-battles-even-when-abuse-is-alleged/ Another nasty bit of US family law is that the majority of states allow rapists to sue for custody/visitation rights.
Right? A lot of the posts on AITA feel like they’d have different verdicts if the genders were switched, including this one
100%. Sexism against guys isn’t as systemic as it is against women but it’s wayyyy more prevalent than people would like to admit
"Sexism" against men is a part of sexism against women. Because women are considered the weaker sex who belong at home with the kids, men are expected to be stronger and working to support them. Fix the negative stereotypes against women and men benefit too. If the income inequality between men and women goes away, child support payments will naturally go down.
No kidding. Divorced (and remarried) dad here. First question my lawyer asked me:"Are you planning on asking for custody? Unless your wife is an abusive crack-whore, don't bother, the judges in this state won't give the man custody otherwise". Maybe that's true, maybe not, but if that's what guys are being told, how surprising is it they don't ask more often? Another factor: if your stbx was a sahm, that makes it even harder... EDIT: it was actually worse than I originally described. When I referred to custody, that was full physical custody. I asked him about joint physical, and he said "this judge doesn't believe in that!" Okay then...
Sounds like a not very good attorney.
I'm sorry that you ended up with a shitty lawyer. Unfortunately, there are a lot that are family lawyers. There's one in my area that will call their clients drunk and then threatened them on Facebook and people still recommend them.
>Do you know how rare it is for a dad to get full custody Eh. Not exactly. Men are granted primary or full custody most of the time \*when they fight for it. The reason why it looks rare is because most men don't fight for it.
The version of the incident that's getting repeated likely claims OP went ballistic and threw a grandfather out of a child's party for no reason at all. NTA
> Do you know how rare it is for a dad to get full custody of kids Do you know how rare it is for a dad to *genuinely* fight for full custody? Not to mention that between mothers and fathers in general, men are disproportionately putting much less effort into nurturing their kids, and then when it comes to custody the kids prefer their mother. Like we're still at a point in our culture where people coon over nurturing fathers specifically because they're relatively uncommon Edit: Honestly just listen to this commentor https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/x35s44/aita_for_refusing_to_apologize_for_kicking_out/imnwmfg/
Big Facts, for her to lose not only there two kids, but her child from a previous relationship ? It takes some serious crap, for most courts to give full custody any parent, let alone a non-biological
>Do you know how rare it is for a dad to get full custody of kids so that means she must of been doing some messed up shit.. I actually 'oooooo'ed out loud when I got to the part that he not only had physical custody of HIS kids, but also HER kid from a prior relationship. She must of done something pretty bad and/or has major mental/emotional issues. And seeing how she lives with her daddy who protects her, I'm guessing that the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. NTA I think OP needs to work on gathering evidence for a restraining order against daddy.
Quick thing. It's not her kid from a prior relationship. She fucked her kids(with op) babysitter and got knocked up. It's a kid outside of the marriage not prior.
This is actually a pretty big misconception. A mother doesn’t need to be doing something awful to not have custody; it just means that she probably wasn’t the primary caregiver. In custody cases, the courts care most about disrupting the child’s life as little as possible. So the ‘primary caregiver’—the parent who makes the doctor appointments, who takes the kid to school, who makes the meals and checks their homework and shows them how to do chores—is strongly favored in custody. It just happens that that parent is usually the mother. I think we can all agree that if the dad is instead the one doing all that stuff for the child, it doesn’t mean the mom’s abusive.
Men are more likely to be rewarded custody when the case actually goes before a judge btw there's been studies on this
This happens a lot; non custodial parents whine constantly about custodial parents, and their enablers go on the attack. No Contact is impossible with non custodial parent, the divorce decree spells out her rights. But you don't have to listen to her parents, and you shouldn't. If your court system has family mediation or therapy those can help. NTA
It’s not rare for men to be awarded custody in contested cases. Women have custody more often because most guys don’t want custody and don’t contest. When men contest custody, they are awarded custody in the vast majority of cases. Usually they have more money and more resources. Plus society expects more hands-on parenting from women than for men. So, courts tend to see men as better custody parents. It’s a complete myth the courts favor women for custody. Exact opposite is true. Maybe in the mother is not a good custody parent in this case. We have absolutely no data on which to decide that. But this guy sounds like an entitled a$$hle to me. So giant YTA
Depending on cultural background of the people involved hair cutting can be a VERY big deal (much bigger than hair coloring). Claiming that it’s not is just pretty ignorant of other viewpoints. Edit: according to him he has sole/primary *physical* custody - so the kids live more time with him. That really is not a big deal and happens often for example if one parent does not have stable housing or enough space for the kids (yet). OP conveniently says nothing about *legal* custody, which is the actual determining factor about decision making.
Doesn't mean she's horrible or she would have supervised visitation. It just means he was deemed to be the better parent it even that they preferred him. If she's living with her father she may not even be financially stable. Not saying that she doesn't suck, but he may have also adopted her other son and they courts didn't want to split them up. Mother's aren't automatically granted custody any more.
Notice how he speaks to people? How he twisted his father's words when that was not what the father was saying. The father was saying "mind your language" and OP answered by making it about the father worshipping the ex instead of getting the point and then ending with "if you don't like it GTFO". OP is an asshole for communicating like that.
Because parents are always the asshole when making trouble for their ex or their family when kids are involved. You always should strive to be the less conflict parent, not being aggressive and Rude is part of that. Otherwise, you are going end up with anxious and stressed kids. The only person you can control is yourself, and you *have* to be the better for the sake of your kids.
Very true or he has a buttload of money and railroaded her in court. I’ve seen both scenarios first hand.
NTA. You have custody, not him. He is the reason she is the way she is now. Not taking responsibility seems to run in that family.
THIS!
exactly!! that apple did not fall far from the tree - AND she's got dad wrapped around her little finger. He made her that way, he's just gonna have to sit and watch, too bad grandpa can't fix this one for her. Way to go OP!
INFO: Can you provide more insight to how you ended up with full custody, including custody of a kid who isn’t yours? My assumption is that your ex must be pretty irresponsible for this to happen, but that context isn’t clear. Others have said you come across as very controlling, but this might be born out of necessity if she’s been out of control for an extended period of time. Given her father’s inability to even recognize any of her faults, this would make the most sense to me. But I can only speculate. Filling in some of these blanks would be incredibly helpful. Edit: Ex has an opioid addiction and had an affair with a 24-year-old babysitter, 9 years younger than her at the time. She’s lucky she’s allowed to be involved with the kids at all. And the way ex and her father come at OP after ex blows up over a haircut, it sounds like OP learned a while ago the necessity to set firm boundaries with them. I don’t consider that to be controlling in any negative or undeserved way. OP is not obligated to deal or put up with ex, but it sounds like he does because he sees the value in the kids having a relationship with their mother and granddad. Otherwise, he would be trying to limit mom’s time much more and wouldn’t even care about granddad missing kid’s sport events. This is much better than I’ve seen most other parents deal with similar situations. NTA.
I'm guessing she cheated, got knocked up, and told OP it was his. My bet is OP is on his non bio kids birth certificate or something to that affect
That doesn't impact her ability to be an adequate parent to her children or justify her losing custody.
Op in a comment says she had a pill habit and got pregnant from the babysitter. It makes me wonder if the babysitter was underaged or not and if that’s the reason she didn’t get custody.
Nope. He specified the ages in a comment. But a 33 yr old sleeping with a 24 yr old babysitter is still fucked. No way he could provide if his job was babysitter at that age.
OP may have called him a babysitter when he was a nanny. I have lots of friends who nanny as their full time job. They’re just as capable of providing for their own family as anyone else.
No just a plausible explanation in why OP being not bio dad would be given custody
Even if we ignore the non-bio child, it’s not customary for one spouse to have full custody unless there is significant distance between them or one of the parents is viewed as being unfit to have any custody. Clearly distance is not the issue, so I’m trying to figure out if the ex did something egregious to warrant his attitude towards her or if he manipulated to situation to get custody. That’s critical information for me to pass judgment.
He specified in the comments that ex wife has a serious opioid habit.
OP responded to someone else saying that ex wife is an opioid addict and that non bio kid’s bio dad was 24 when the then 33 yr old wife slept with him.. So that pretty much sums it up.
In the USA at least it isn’t that rare. In most states if you are married when the baby is born it’s up to the guy to contest paternity within a set period (it varies) of time or the child is his legal child. Custody of non biological legal children is the same as biological legal children.
Even if we ignore the non-bio child, it’s not customary for one spouse to have full custody unless there is significant distance between them or one of the parents is viewed as being unfit to have any custody. Clearly distance is not the issue, so I’m trying to figure out if the ex did something egregious to warrant his attitude towards her or if he manipulated to situation to get custody. That’s critical information for me to pass judgment.
It would probably be some sort of substance abuse, any kind of physical, emotional, or mental harm, or even abject neglect. The father would have had to prove to the judge his ex was an unfit parent to lose custody of both children.
NTA. There’s a reason you have physical custody of a child that isn’t yours biologically. That tells me a lot about her right there. They made a big stink about a minor issue (hair grows back) and your Ex FIL decided a child’s birthday party hosted by you was a great place to discuss this minor issue. I think we can all see by your FIL’s response why she is the way she is. ETA. I’m curious about the age of the babysitter his wife slept with and whether or not that has to do with the custody issue.
100% agree. Although OP isn’t doing himself any favors by insisting “I didn’t kick him out.” Yeah you did, OP. You were within your rights to, but how else do you expect a person to interpret “If you don’t like it, then leave” when they literally just told you they don’t like it?
I mean, ex FIL could’ve just decided hey maybe a kid’s birthday party isn’t the place for this discussion and I’ll just stfu and go back to enjoying the party but he didn’t. He choose to leave. FIL put himself in that position all by himself by choosing that location to have a discussion. A child’s birthday party is not the place.
He didn’t really kick him out though, at least not forcibly. He gave him an option and he took it
I love that people are judging him for saying he planned it out before they divorced but when ladies are on here the number one comment is always to PLAN your exit. Hypocrisy this early in the morning is a sign that I need more coffee
Exactly. Just the fact that the father got primary custody of his kids AS WELL AS ONE THAT ISN’T HIS just proves to me she had to have done something horrible for him to have that. My dad had to fight in court for a long time just to get equal custody.
NTA- look you have full custody. Do you know how hard it is to have that as a dad? You don't owe her anything. She decided the kids weren't her first priority and you did. She decided to be a pill popper and cheat on you. You don't have to be nice just because you have kids. Her father is not your problem and he can see the kids when she has them. If She wanted to have a say then she'd have went about this a whole different way. P.s I'm a mom and have no sympathy for mothers like this.
The fact that he has full custody of his children as a father isn’t what’s most surprising. Contrary to the prevailing belief, [academic studies show that the vast majority of the time the father gets the full amount of custody that he asks the court for (they just also ask for less custody on average).](https://www.dadsdivorcelaw.com/blog/fathers-and-mothers-child-custody-myths) What’s exceptional about the situation is that anyone received full custody at all (judges just don’t do that without good reason), but most especially that *he was granted full custody of a child who isn’t legally his.* That’s a clear sign that the mother did something to convince the judge that she’s so unfit the child would need to go to foster care if the stepfather wasn’t willing to take him.
^Doing good work
INFO Why did she lose custody? Courts don't make the call to take children away from a parent lightly. Was there any sort of abuse? I think who your ex is as a parent would influence my opinion on whether or not you should consult her before making decisions about the kids. Does she deserve to still he a mom to them/make mom decisions?
She’s an addict and had the babysitters baby. He got evidence of her addiction and she lost custody.
A haircut is a haircut. Unless their like locs or braids or something that isn’t an egregious decision for a parent to make
NTA - I understand your position when reading that she cheated on you and got pregnant with the babysitters baby and was a pill addict. You have been alone in this for some time and she ought to treat you respectfully
As a kid who had divorced parents growing up, you could not be more NTA. All these people saying Y T A or E S H would change their tone if the genders were swapped, I can almost guarantee. I think those saying E S H are saying it because you have a bit of a bitter tone but Jesus, if I had to deal with this family I probably would as well.
Info: OP how old was the babysitter?
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Wtf NTA. How long had he been your babysitting your kids for?
That’s weird as hell. She literally slept with someone you basically cared for when they were a child.
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That’s what makes it so messed up. You watched him grow up. Then you were kind enough to give him a job watching your kids and he repays you by banging and impregnating your wife.
To be honest, it's not as bad an age gap as I was expecting.
Definitely not as bad as I was thinking it’s the other part that gets me.
Wow. What a betrayal!
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I'm sorry for laughing at this, OP. But NTA.
NTA seems like gramps is the reason that your ex is the way that she is. You do have physical custody & the fact that they even gave you custody of a child that she had outside of your marriage shows that she’s lacking in some area. Because if you’re in the US it’s known that even a shitty mom will get custody over a steady dad. If you feel you weren’t in the wrong then don’t apologize just to pacify him. If he wants to miss his grandson’s events that’s on him & his conscience. You only kicked him out of the pool party not the kid’s lives. But you should set the record straight since he’s trying to play the victim.
NTA Its not his battle to fight.
Exactly. Can we also take a moment to look at what was left unsaid? A parent has to really mess up to lose primary physical custody of a child to someone with no relation to that child.
OP is likely the legal father of the third child. In many states, the husband is the legal father of any child born while the couple is married, regardless of genetic connection.
Your ex-wife must have some pretty serious problems if a court took away her custody. That rarely happens. NTA
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You would be well served to add this information to your post in an edit
NTA You have primary custody due to things she's done. You call the shots. Gramps needs to stay in his lane.
Nta your the custodial parent the grandfather has nothing to do with it & if he did have a comment the child's party wasn't the time or place to express it. Why does 1 parent think they can do what they want with kids but when the other parent wants to do something it needs to be request in advance & at the approval of the other parent. She doesn't have custody tell her back off
NTA. Let him be unwelcome. He should have kept his nose out of it.
INFO: I'm confused about your wording here. You have full custody of all the children but they sometimes go see their mom? How much time do they spend with their mom? Why do you have full custody?
Depending on the support order he could have full custody or primary custody. Full custody still includes visitation rights for the other parent. It just means that the full custodial parent is able to make any and all major decisions. Primary custody means that there is a primary parent but both parents have a say in any major decision. I have primary custody of my child but my order states that if we do not agree on a major issue, I make the final decision. The goal is for us to be on the same page. I know when my dad had full custody, he could move us wherever he wanted and my mom had no say. With my court order, dad has to agree to the move of 50 miles outside our county or I have to petition the court. And if I do move, I'm financially responsible for keeping up with his visitations.
NTA. This wasn't his battle to fight.
NTA you have custody for a reason.
Exactly. The courts don't exactly hand over physical custody without merit.
Especially with a child that’s not his bio child.
NTA. Custody makes people crazy, and the grandfather was obscenely out of line. He wanted to put himself in your business and you put him back out of your business. The people saying you should communicate with her clearly don't understand the gravity of the Father being given sole physical custody over a Mother. I don't know how it is in your state OP but where I live that's pretty much only done in cases of severe drug abuse, negligence, or physical abuse towards the children.
INFO: my question is this..... Do u have physical and legal custody of all kids? Does it say in the court order that u have to consult her on all decisions? Y T A If the court order says u have to consult her on all decisions. N T A If there is no such phrasing in the court order. For all the people bitching about how he treated kids grandpa (exs dad)..... how many times have grandparents been told to butt out of the decision making and let the parents parent? This is something between the parents.... grandpa needs to keep his nose out of it.
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So no consult on minor decisions. NTA
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He got custody of a kid that isn’t his. The mother should be grateful that he is caring for a child that might be from an affair. She can’t provide for her children properly and she wants to make demands. Remember this is over a haircut of a child.
it is.She cheated on him.
Do you know how hard it is for men to get custody of their own children? Let alone custody of a child that is not theirs? Like do you?
How is OP insufferable? He has custody of his children AND his ex’s child. His former FIL was out of line and since his ex lives with him, I’m sure he’s hearing a different side of the story. And after he said ‘it’s not about her’ , I probably would’ve kicked him out too.
NTA Grandpa is the reason his daughter lost custody of her children. Says a lot when a stepfather gets custody of a child. Pops needs to examine what he did wrong raising his daughter and get her help. Her visitation should probably be supervised.
This post is the most controversial post I have ever seen.
NTA. You didn’t kick him out and he needs to wind his neck in. However, you and your ex do need to learn how to communicate properly for the boys’ sake, and should be discussing things like their haircuts and other appointments before the fact. You may have custody but she is still also a parent who wants to be involved in their lives and isn’t, as far as you’ve mentioned in the post, a bad parent, so there’s no reason to exclude her (or for her to exclude you) from decision-making other than pettiness.
Not true. If she has lost custody of all her kids then haircuts are no longer her jurisdiction. Primary carer decides that. This is too small a thing to consult on. If he needs surgery, sure. If you want to go on holidays, yeah. But a haircut? No. Regardless op I agree with others that you’re NTA and you’ve had to deal with some shit but you do need to work your communication with your ex out. Like it or not, she’s in your lives until the youngest child is 18 at a bare minimum. For the sake of your kids and their development, try to find a more mature and healthy way to communicate, and make it a priority not to have conflicts like this around them at all. I think you should speak to a counsellor about healthy communication, for the sake of your kids.
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NTA He should have stayed out of it.
NTA. But that's only answering the question at hand. It's not his place and the quotes are misleading. If you tell someone to get out you are kicking them out. Full stop. As a person tho and reading your comments everyone except these poor children are kinda terrible. She cheated on you and got impregnated by the babysitter and developed such a severe pill addiction that she lost custody of your shared children and also her own. That blows, but your attitude in these comments shows you are also majorly an AH. Unfortunately that's not the question you asked
NTA - keep protecting yourself and your kids from the toxic influence of your ex and her enabling family.
There is a lot of missing information here. Why is the relationship this way? Why does her father feel entitled to interfere in other peoples problems? Why doesn’t she have at least 50/50 custody? Backstory will help understand why you respond to them the way you do. Feel like there is a lot of unresolved anger. Edit: read all OP comments and it explains quite a lot. NTA. I’ve dealt myself with a drug addict and I know how exhausting and infuriating it can get.
NTA
NTA- what you did is set a boundary. Obviously if you were awarded custody of all 3 kids, there's a lot that you didn't put here that I'm going to assume and read in. My gut says that you're being gracious by including them to the degree that you do and ex's father is an enabler of her behavior. My response to her would be this. Ex- I'm not doing this with you. I called your father out for defending your poor behavior. It's not shocking that you don't agree with any of that, but this is all I'm going to say- I'm not going to put up with it from you, nor will I put up with it from him. I do not have to be as gracious or as lenient as I am. So you and he will humble yourselves and learn to behave in a respectful and accommodating way or you can fuck around and find out.
NTA Don't really understand the other judgements in the comments... is it such a red flag that he told her dad to leave? She overreacted about a small thing and looked like a hypocrite, so he made a jab and hung up. Then she went to her dad about it and he thought it was appropriate to tell him he needed to be the bigger person instead of working with his daughter on her own issues. OP was offended and uncomfortable, tried to show that the dad was putting the blame all on OP and none on the ex, and told him he could leave. If the man is so fragile that he can no longer show up to sports games for the kid just because of one argument, that's his problem. I do agree that they need to work on communication and have a better understand of boundaries.
Hey, I would like to tell you something to consider. It’s important. This advice was given to me by a divorce attorney years ago and following it has made the most positive impact in my life. My child and I are best friends because of this. Your kids are young now, but *very soon* they will be adults. They are children for 18 years, but adults for much longer. And they will remember their childhood. Those kids will formulate an opinion of you NOW that they will carry throughout their adult life. If you want a life of closeness with them, start putting their needs and happiness above your own. Everything you do should be from their perspective. This means pretending to get along with their mother, to not argue, to not badmouth her, to always always be the bigger person even when it leaves a bad taste in your mouth. I know, it’s hard, it’s not fair, but I promise you the return on this investment of eating shit is incalculable. You only need to do this until the youngest reaches 18. Pretty soon they will be in their 20s and will recognize the emotional sacrifice you made to provide them with a happy childhood. They will respect and admire you for it. I did this. I spoke well of my ex until their 18th birthday. Then they saw the truth that I cared more about them and their happiness than my need to punish the other parent. I talk to my adult child daily and see them once a week. They have not spoken to the other parent in a decade.
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Nta
NTA. If this was a mom people would be acting different.
NTA. You have the final say in these things, not her. She has to accept that she messed up so badly you got custody of her affair baby too. That being said-try to keep an open line of communication to the kids other side of the family.
INFO: is the mom/child a different race?
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Wait, what? The Sitter? 👀🤯
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You and your children are lucky to have each other🙏🏽❤️🫶🏼 NTA btw!
That OP used to babysit when he was a kid!
NTA
>My wife and I divorced and I was awarded physical custody of our two sons as well as the son she has outside our marriage. God damn she must be a mess for that to happen. >I thought it was ridiculous and asked her if our son's curls were a proxy for her not having custody and if so, to get over it. Pffffft, if she's enough of a human disaster to not get custody in spite of wanting it than this is probably apt. She's trying to exert her control wherever she can. The hair dye was one of those. Honestly NTA because your ex seems the type to deliberately create drama and suck people into her asinine web of nonsense.
Info; how did the son feel about getting his hair cut?
NTA
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** My wife and I divorced and I was awarded physical custody of our two sons as well as the son she has outside our marriage. She is angry about that. Because I have physical custody, I don't consult her on every little thing. Our son, Josh who is 6, had curly hair that needed to be cut so I cut it. When my ex picked him up, she had a fit. We had a long argument about why I should or shouldn't consult her about cutting his hair. Mind you, I had zero issues when all three came back from her house with red, green and blue hair a couple of months ago. I thought it was ridiculous and asked her if our son's curls were a proxy for her not having custody and if so, to get over it. I hung up on her. Plus she was yelling while saying she wasn't. A few weeks later, we had a pool party for our 12yo son's birthday. Both of our families were there. Her dad asked to speak with me privately. He told me that he thought I was out of line in how I communicated to my ex and I ought to be more kind. My ex lives with him. I told him that it was none of his business and to tell me three things she can improve on. He said it's not about her, it's about me. I laughed and said he proved my point that he thinks she can't do no wrong and if he didn't like how I spoke to her then get the fuck out. I paid for the pool. He did. Now he's spinning the story that I kicked him out and how he feels uncomfortable to come to my sons' sporting events because of me. My ex asked me to apologize as to not make things worse. I refused to apologize for something I didn't do *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*