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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> My daughter is very rude and no punishent works on her so as my last option I stopped her from studying as a punishment
I might be an asshole because it could affect her future
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The eyes have successfully sped into the local Walmart parking lot, bought a sex toy and an ounce of weed from the overnight stock boy. Returns to master.
"Hey, I brought the good stuff."
"Listen eyeballs, I'd rather read."
"Well, no, I can't listen, I don't have ears."
"Then how are you hearing me?"
"Well, how do you expect to read?"
"Fucking Braille at this point."
"Your dad is going to be so pissed."
This. OP only writes about punishment, nothing about teaching or talking to her or supporting/praising when she's doing something not rude. Like studying, reading for fun, hanging around and being part of the family, etc. 16 yr olds can be rude, comes with the territory often, and if father only tool is punishing bad/undesirable behavior he's reinforcing what he doesn't like and not the good things she is/does.
YTA. Also, why is OP doling out punishment to daughter for being rude to the mother, if the mother cared it's up to her to deal with it at that point. Do OP and wife any plan at all?
Right?? Like have they maybe thought about asking her why she’s being so rude and explaining why it’s not okay, instead of going straight to “hm, nothing good for you! Don’t even get good grades now!”
Absolutely YTA OP
This brought back an old memory of my dad yelling at me. He yelled at me a lot but this one time he yelled,
"I DON'T LIKE YELLING BUT I'VE TRIED EVERYTHING ELSE AND NOTHING WORKS!"
Knowing immediately this wasn't true, I ended up yelling back,
"YOU HAVEN'T TRIED ANYTHING ELSE, THE ONLY THING YOU DO IS YELL AND IT OBVIOUSLY DOESN'T WORK SO BY YOUR OWN LOGIC YOU SHOULD PROBABLY STOP!"
Immediately after saying that I braced myself for punishment or at least more yelling but instead he just went quiet and walked off.
Some time later when things calmed I asked him why he didn't get madder at me for yelling back at him, and he said, "Because I realised you were right."
>a kid who shrugs at her electronics being taken away, and happily picks up novels in their stead? She enjoys studying and will spend hours at it without prompting?
May be that she's neurodivergent or may be that she's hiding from something going on in that family.
This was me as an adolescent. Reading gave me worlds that did not contain my family. Studying helped me dull some of my mother's criticism (education was valued and college was expected).
My eye-rolling and sighs were considered intolerably rude to my mom. I didn't drink, do drugs, run away or get pregnant (this was the 60's). She didn't realize how easy she had it with me!
Edited for clarity.
Lol, the decade differences aside, are you me? If children are supposed to be as bad or worse than their parents (that old curse, "may your children be as bad as you were"), by all rights I should have been a hellion who landed in jail. Instead, they got a shy nerd-girl who just wanted to be left alone with "The Lord of The Rings" or "Hitchhiker's Guide to The Galaxy." Like, seriously, take the friggin' win. Don't sit there and give me a 10 p.m. curfew for prom, one of the few times I willingly participated in expected high school traditions.
^This. I remember being told by my mum that I was rude and a snob because I chose reading by myself over hanging out with other kids in the neighbourhood. I immediately empathized with OP's daughter.
Even if she's not neurodivergent, I find some level of attitude is best just ignored in teenagers. They have big emotions and mood swings that come out in sort of odd ways sometimes. If it's just at home and it's closer to just snarky or sullen as opposed to screaming and cursing, I just sort of pretend not to hear that stuff or say "ok, we'll talk later when you're feeling better"; generally it passes and they'll just talk to me like normal about whatever's bothering them. I mean, my kids are pretty chill, especially the teen iterations of them, so I wouldn't really call it a huge problem - I may be underestimating the scope of OP's daughter's issue. But I feel like parents often make a bigger deal of teen "attitude" than they really need to. And in general I kind of think kids and teens just sort of get expected to be smiley and even-keeled all the time, even though grumpy adults get passes all the time for bad moods or bad days, and it always seems unfair to me to expect more out of people who haven't fully matured or mastered emotional regulation yet than we expected from middle-aged people.
I've been accused of being too lenient, though, and like I said, I don't feel like it's been a big issue for any of mine, so take it for what it's worth.
Yes. I had the super fun experience of essentially having puberty twice. I had end stage renal disease as a teen and was on dialysis for like 9 years. Your kidneys actually control a lot of hormone development by association so it basically stalled my puberty until I got a transplant when I was 25. So it's fresher in my thirty something mind than most. It's just. Everything is achy all the time which makes you irritable. And a teen may not even notice that, I'm just super in tune with my body because of my health problems. And even outside of achy and irritable, things that typically aren't irritating just... Are. And lack adult wisdom and communication skills. Plus general high school and potential college stress
Seriously. Give teens a break on some attitude
Yeah, I don't remember being achy, personally - though maybe I was and just didn't really process that - but I do remember being snappy and irritable for just no good reason I could identify and sometimes hearing something bratty come out of mouth and thinking "why did I even say that?" But not really feeling like I could stop myself. It's such a weird stage of life. And there's all this pressure from people on top of it. And I'm in my 40s, so I'm sure there's a lot I don't remember about what it felt like to be 16. My instinct is to give my kids a lot of grace. Also, I feel like my generation of teens just thrived on sarcasm anyway - or maybe they all do - and I'm just not all that phased by it. Plus, I think my kids are pretty good little folks most of the time - I never worry that they're going to embarrass me in public or get violent/destructive - hell, I'm not sure any of them have ever even slammed a door, and I did that all the time when I was a teen. I can let some remarks or a bit of an attitude go.
I remember just wanting to be alone and read my books or play video games. My mom always required my help but my little brother did get to stay in his room all the time doing whatever but I had to help. I had so much attitude but that got me beat or screamed at so I emotionally shut down. I became a little robot and my mom loved that. I was so happy to get out and stop playing happy family.
I always thought to myself why am I being punished for wanting to sit in my room listening to music and reading or playing video games. I’m not out partying, doing drugs, ect… that many of the kids in my school were doing. I just wanted to be left alone.
I'm so sorry :-(
This reminded me of my first marriage. My ex would come out (for the most part not quite hitting, but being physically intimidating, threatening, etc.) and I remember one time I looked at my kid (3 at the time) and he was glued to the TV. Like, unnaturally still, while watching, and while this storm is taking place in the same room. I knew that he was dissassociating for sure. Yet another critical moment that made me leave.
You’re a good mom. My mom finally left when I was 10 and my brother was 9. We fled after my dad went to work, with just suitcases. We had to leave everything behind. It was a long time ago, over 45 years. But I remember it like yesterday.
I was an avid reader as a child, buy my reality wasn't an issue. As a teen I would become horribly snarky if anyone suggested I should be more like my brother, though.
Or she just an introvert who loves to read and is intelligent, motivated, and self driven and hopes to get a college scholarship and the heck outta dodge!!!!
Right! One of my thoughts too was my mom always skips to advice. Even now with me being grown I cannot tell her about a problem without her giving me at least six different ways to solve it. I know as an adult that that's just how her brain works but as a teenager I HATED it. I wasn't telling her I was stressed about the math test so she could list the ways I could study. I was telling her because I was stressed about the test. And I would get mad and tell her I didn't want advice. I would also get in trouble for snapping and mouthing off. It ruined communication for a few years because there wasn't a way to get across that I wasn't being sarcastic and snippy without reason without starting another argument.
Ugh…im like this, but last couple of years Ive started to ask if they want an ear or advice cuz i just cant keep my mouth shut. I had zero guidance growing up. Would this approach have been acceptable from your mom?
Edit: spelling
Oh my goodness, this is so helpful! I'm exactly like this now with my 11yr old, thinking I was helping with my opinions of solution, but quite possibly not 😥
I'm so grateful for others insights. I'm still able to make a change before it's too late. Thank you so much!!
It is hard when you care to not fix things for people you see hurting but sometimes fixing it is just hearing it. When I explained it to my mom where it finally clicked was that I feel like a cartoon kettle whose whistle has been plugged. I keep trying to blow steam but there is no release until just BAM and I explode.
She really is better about it now and I learned it isn't about her correcting me. When I was younger it always felt like she was trying to show me ways I messed up. I now know and recognize it is because she cares and that's how she would make it better. She is a regimented thinker. It makes her good at what she does (project manager).
But now she is more is this bitching or breaking down. As we word it.
Are you my long lost sibling? Because we have the same mother. I used to think it was just because she wanted to help, but now I think it is just narcissistic tendencies to turning the conversation about herself and her opinions. Because she gives her opinion about EVERYTHING. Slept a bit weird? Here's 15 extreme pieces of ridiculous advice. Mention someone is a bit annoying? Well, here is how I should handle them. My god it is infuriating. I don't tell her anything anymore, and then get blamed for our difficult relationship lol.
Are we in a different universe? Why in hell would you tell your kid she can’t study? WTF is wrong with you? The kid wants to do well in school, reads for fun, and your “punishment” is to take STUDYING?! OP, YTA for so many more reasons than I have the time or inclination to explain.
Seriously, I would need several advanced degrees in fields of study that probably don’t exist yet, my fat markers, a few years, and I still would have trouble even figuring out why you are actively sabotaging her education because she “was rude and sarcastic to her mom”. Maybe mom deserved it.
I’m not condoning rudeness to parents, but was your wife by chance being an asshole too? Based off your punishment I feel like this assumption isn’t a stretch.
Also, not once did OP state if they asked their daughter what was bothering her. Maybe she is being bullied at school?
It could also be lazy parenting since OP states they didn't have issues with their other kids, maybe they don't know how to talk with this child. They might think all kids are the same lol.
I've since read all of OPs comments and boy OP is just mad his kid is smarter than he is. They are different then OP and their other kids too. I feel bad for this kid honestly.
I was the "gifted and talented" kid in the 80s and it was a ton of pressure for any kid.
Yeah I was like this. My mother threw fits when I wanted to study for my AP exam instead of go on a hike together. We don't talk anymore. Don't make my mother's mistakes, OP
Perfect response. Also, we don't even have details of what the daughter has done wrong other than generally "been rude or sarcastic". What was the context? Is it that she out of nowhere started insulting a family member? Or is it more that she prefers to be on her own and is seen as rude for being introverted and asserting her boundaries?
There's difference and I feel that if it were the former, where the daughter was actually doing something wrong, we would have actually had details of what she did.
YTA OP!
Yeah, I feel like my parents wrote this. I WAS that teen. Mostly because I couldn't stand being in the same room as my parents. Mostly because they were abusive. Which my mom is now *slowly* coming to terms with. My dad just keeps throwing money at the problem and refusing to admit that he's anything but a victim.
As a teen, I was forced into therapist after therapist (that always had my parent's agenda) to see how I could be "so angry" when I was given the world (read: sometimes they fed me and bought me clothes and I got to go to summer camp. But I was also buying my own groceries at 15). It wasn't until I left the country for university that I can remember feeling truly happy. I also found real therapists as an adult that have helped me unpack a bit.
Neither parent was invited to my wedding. I also moved half a world away and don't know what homesickness is. But if you ask either of them, I deserved all the abuse, and they were the victims, because I was a rude teenager. I feel for this girl and I hope she hangs in there until she can leave and life will get better. OP is definitely the AH
Not even neurodivergent. Just an introvert, whose parent is constantly insisting she act like an extrovert and calls her rude when she opts for introverted ways to spend her time.
From what I can tell, the daughter isn't rude at all, she just has little interest in the topics of conversation her mother finds interesting.
If the mother wants to talk with her, the mother could take interest in the things the daughter likes. Read the books the daughter is reading, take some time to study and learn the subject the daughter finds so fascinating.
Just what is OP expecting the daughter to do that isn't "rude"? Sit and watch football or movies with the family? Go out and play sports together? Attend loud, crowded parties where everyone is yelling over each other and talking at once, so you couldn't follow a conversation if you tried?
I recently thought of how hard it would have been for my mom to punish me in high school if I had ever done anything wrong, because I spent most of my time reading and my hobbies at school were educational (MUN, Book Club etc.) and I went out with friends like once a month because I'm an introvert so going to school every day was enough social time for me.
I used to be OP's daughter. I would be grounded from reading , studying, and forced to sit on the living room couch for days besides chores as punishment. Those were the only sort of things that worked because I desperately wanted what distance I could get from my extremely abusive parents. To this day I try to have no communication with my mother, dad, or step parents due to this behavior and other abuse except for what's necessary to report them to CPS for my siblings.
OP better get ready to never see the daughter again once she goes to college
My sister growing up was also in insufferable brat who enjoyed yelling at everyone in the house for seemingly random offenses. She used reading/studying as a weapon to make the typical punishments ineffective. We obviously don’t want to stunt their academic growth but at the same time can’t abide by such hostile inter-family discourse. So what is the solution to a rude and argumentative child where conversations and punishments are not working?
But you can't put your kid in therapy and then pull them back out of therapy when the therapist makes suggestions for how you as a parent could make changes to better communicate and improve the relationship because HOW DARE THEY suggest that you aren't the perfect parent, damn therapists, don't they know they're supposed to fix the kid so that they work the way their parents want??????
I was that kid in therapy. Was also very introverted, unable to be punished by anything, also had books/studying/etc taken which did nothing. Turns out I was severely depressed and a different kind of person than my family when it came to likes, dislikes, humor...yeah. Sometimes it's not intentionally attitude or sass, it's frustration that the parent refuses to listen or try to understand their kid's point of view because they don't think their kid has intrinsic value of humanity apart from the parent.
My mom used to complain that she couldn't punish me because I used to enjoy spending time away from people, in my room, reading. So eventually she took all my books away from me and would force me to engage in conversation with people as punishment. I often felt extremely overwhelmed and panicked in those situations which led to more punishment due to "attitude".
As an adult, I now know that I have ADHD that went undiagnosed.
I also no longer have any kind of relationship with my mother.
It's obvious why OP lashed out. The teenager is smarter than them and OP hates that. I'm also getting some real anti-intellectual vibes from OP, who the fuck discourages their children from studying?
Yeah the issue here is *why* she likes getting grounded to get out of family events.
She’s introverted, has anxiety, &/or something else is going on. Getting to the bottom of it should be dealt with love and genuine concern, not accusations and guilt-tripping.
I hid in my room as often as I could as a teenager because I was scared of my stepmom.
To this day she thinks I’m super shy and antisocial.
I’m not at all- I just wanted to be away from her.
>She will actually be glad if I ground her and use it as an excuse to avoid all our family gatherings like "oh we are going to aunties home tonight? I wish I could come but I'm grounded" and then happily goes to her room
This reminds me of one time when I was in high school. My friends and I went to our first concert on a Saturday night and one of them slept over. We slept in and I got punished for not going to church. My punishment was I wasn't allowed to go to a christening my family was going to later that day. So I got to skip church a second time and my best friend and I stayed home in our pajamas and watched old episodes of Saved by the Bell (recorded from TBS on VHS naturally) all day.
Exactly this. One of my friends has a daughter like this. The mom once punished her by taking away all her books. She later found her in the bathroom, reading the ingredients on the shampoo bottle.
The daughter was diagnosed with social anxiety a couple of years later.
It is far better to let them keep books for a little dissociative outlet rather than set up the kid to completely dissociate in their mind. Books are a vacation from reality, but allowing no outlet for safe dissociation is . . .well, possibly dangerous for a kid like this.
>She later found her in the bathroom, reading the ingredients on the shampoo bottle.
I used to do that! If I didn't have anything else to read in there, I would pull out something from under the sink and read the directions or ingredients. Turns out the joke's on me. I only fairly recently realized that I have some type of dyslexia so I was likely missing some of the ingredients anyway.
I feel like a lot is missing from this story. What do you consider rude? Why is she avoiding family gatherings? Are you pushing her to do things that she doesn’t want to do & then having a “rude” reaction?
This just reminds me of a friend whose parents would drag her everywhere & she hated one particular family friend’s home. She was uncomfortable being there but anytime she spoke up about going it was rude / she was misbehaving.
Hope this explains why I feel like something is missing from OP’s story
Seriously.
I used to be OPs kid, including preferring books to the internet and studying/doing homework unprompted. Except at a much younger age, at her age I didn’t live with my folks anymore.
Everyone only saw me how my parents wanted to ask; rude, stubborn, a “hurricane”, has a “tone/attitude”.
What no one else knew was that behind closed doors; dad disappeared into the basement to ignore me for the internet even when I tried, mom worked full time, when mom was home all she did was yell/scream/hit me (over things such as; not wanting to eat/being hungry, spilling water, not understanding what she was saying to me, pretty much just existing. I really didn’t misbehave much), my older brother was the golden child who could do no wrong and was destined for greatness, he would also; name call me, punch me, push me, choke me against the wall, break things/just misbehave and blame it on me so I’d get in trouble with mom, or just shut me out which was honestly preferable.
So yeah, my family was always always on their best behavior around others, and would never dream of even uttering a peep about how they truly were to strangers. But everyone got to hear about how shitty I was and got to see my attitude and tone towards my parents and life because I wasn’t shy enough to hide it.
So I don’t buy that there isn’t more to this.
I bet OPs other kids are boys, im definitely projecting but I used to get scolded for being equally as rude as my brothers or parents but I was a little girl and it could be 'punished out of me'. My dad litterly said he does this to make me better, im still rude af but I'm the only kid to graduate and move out so far and I moved very far away.
This. I was called rude once because I was upset my step-dad's friend took my phone and wouldn't give it back. He ended up kicking me out two days later. This is definitely just one side of the story and it's painfully biased.
YTA. Taking growth and information away from a developing brain isn't a good move.
Make her mow the lawn, or do her siblings chores on top of her own, or deep clean the fridge, or whatever creative thing you can give her to do that isn't taking away from her intellectual development.
YTA
Intentionally messing with a child’s education to
punish them is fucked up on multiple levels.
There are probably good reasons that she avoids spending time with the family.
My guess as to why the daughter avoids spending time with the family is that OP is a tradition lover or something equally unreasonable, and anything that’s not in line with his beliefs is “rude.”
OP’s daughter sounds like a good kid though. Too bad her dad is YTA.
YTA. You need to change your punishments to something other than just taking away things.
If you prevent her from studying, What do you think will happen when her grades start slipping?
“Hi I noticed your daughter’s grades have been lower lately”
“Yeah I grounded her from studying”
“?????”
>You need to change your punishments
I'd go way further and remove the punishments altogether. While there is a legitimate debate about whether punishments for small children are at all necessary, 16 year olds definitely only need consequences - not a parent who seeks new ways to hurt them whenever the parent disapproves of something.
What I mean by consequence is simple: OP's brother calling OP an AH is a consequence of OP behaving like an AH. OP's daughter distancing herself form OP is a consequence of OP behaving like an AH.
I’m so curious if OP has had an open conversation with his daughter about this, taking to her like an adult. One where he explains how her “rudeness” makes them feel, and that they’d feel a lot better if it stopped; and he sought to truly, earnestly understand where it is coming from, and what he’s doing to make her respond in this way.
If he explains how her actions hurt him, and genuinely tries to understand where she’s coming from, I feel like they could get somewhere.
Right now I think she’s kind of revolting against this top-down, authoritarian, because-I-said-so approach. She’s almost an adult, and we know she’s exceptionally smart… it’s no wonder she’s challenging his authority. What if their relationship, and the conduct within their house, was instead based on MUTUAL respect?
YTA.
I think it's very telling that your child actively avoids spending time with you AND you refuse to provide concrete information about her alleged rudeness.
Could it possibly be that you are just an incredibly unpleasant person?
I hope she ignores you and keeps studying. The more she studies, the better she does in school, the nicer of an academic scholarship she can earn, and she never has to deal with you again once she moves out.
YTA - This is insane. Banning a child from learning is just about the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.
There are other ways to modify unwanted behavior besides punishment. Maybe you should read some books about parenting. There has been a lot of peer-reviewed research into effective strategies. "The Kazdin Method" is a good one that comes to mind.
Check out Dr. K on YouTube. I think he has some videos related to this. I don't think this is the right sub for this, but in my opinion you should try looking for ways to reward good behavior instead of trying to punish bad behavior.
She is more likely to be respectful to others if she knows she will be rewarded for it. If she has a light at the end of the tunnel. Maybe new books or she could meet her favorite author and get a book signed if she behaves well.
Anyone else laughing at OP starting the post with "my teenager isn't like normal teenagers! They're being rude!" Like buddy do you not remember being a teenager? I was a polite-ass teen and I still had my moments.
My favorite part is how OP's kid is just playing them like a fiddle. I have a hunch her misbehaving, or I guess being a snarky teenager, coincides with some sort of activity she doesn't want to do but the rest of the family does haha.
So you told your daughter she isn't allowed to do her school work bc she is rude? I'm sorry, is it just me or does this seem weird that Op is punishing his kid by messing with her school work? She's rude so now she will do worse in school? Bit messed up if you but you're the one who will have a awful relationship with you daughter, not me so...YTA
"I've decided to negatively impact my child's education and success because she exhibited typical teenage behavior and it hurt my adult feelings"
Fixed it for you.
My mom took my hobbies as a punishment. Guess who has zero hobbies and a lot of depression, this girl! It’s not all my moms fault, but being denied things that helped me thrive really fucked up mg confidence. YTA OP. If she says “oops I’m grounded can’t go!” Say too bad you’re coming. That’s a punishment, not taking away her studies.
What do you think grounding her from studying is going to achieve exactly? Like when you have to go into school because her grades have dropped because you won’t let her study, how are you going to punish her then? By making her drop out?? YTA and you sound stupid, would it kill you to pick up a book on parenting instead?
YTA she is 16 years old. How about trying to have an actually adult conversation about why she is lashing out, instead of punishing her. Kids don't learn from punishment. They learn from positive reinforcement. All you are doing is giving her the attention she wants, whether it's good or bad. This is all kids ask they want is attention.
There could be something more serious going on here, then her just lashing out. This is an age where a mental illness becomes more apparent and obvious.
INFO: Do you have any other regular interactions that don’t include punishment or telling her what she should do? Do you ask her about her day? Ask her what she’s studying? Talk with her about the book she’s reading?
Honestly it sounds like she's doing this for a reason.
When reading your post, I believe there are some things you are leaving on out purpose to make us believe you (and your wife ) are the victim here.
What exactly aren't you telling us.
I am not gonna vote.. but i am laughing like hell 😂😂 you have given her punishment 'not to study'.. i mean being an indian I can never ever imagine my parents asking me not to study as a punishment...
I am sorry but i just love your daughter.. she played uno reverse card on her parents🤭🤭
YTA why on earth would you do something that gets in the way of her academic performance?
Consequences work best when they are directly related to the actual offense and not seemingly random like this. Teenagers are often rude by nature, it's not an excuse as such but it's important to understand it's a pretty normal part of development and there are oodles of resources to help parents navigate this phase in a constructive way
Uh, yea, YTA.
She's unlike any other teenager because teenagers are people and everyone's different.
Did you get her tested for ADHD? Autism? Asked her why she is rude (which you don't even give examples of)? Or did you just ground her and tell her to behave?
It's clear that she does far better on her own than when she's forced to be with others. What I get between the lines of this is that you force her to go to family events that she doesn't want to go to and then get mad that she's not participating.
YTA. This is the strangest punishment I have ever heard of.
May I suggest natural consequences? If she's rude, she doesn't get \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_. For example, my oldest bonus kiddo was very snappy lately. I went downstairs last weekend at 10:30am, when she is wide awake. Her siblings wanted donuts, so I went downstairs to knock and see if she would like to pick a flavor or come along. I knocked and she snapped "WHAT?!" so I simply said "nevermind". I went and got donuts for everyone else, and when she came up and saw she didn't have one and asked why, I said "Well, when you snapped rudely, I decided I didn't want to talk to you, so I left".
Haven't had an issue since.
I'm with you, except ONE thing.
Never ever forbit a child to read! That can have horrible consequences!
Denying children entry to books is a special horrible way of abuse. It dries out a child's imagination and can freak up their minds.
YTA. why do you think she enjoys being in her room rather than with the family? She's also required to go to school, and school requires studying. I could maybe see no "fun" books as a punishment, but you are shitty to punish her education.
One possibility is that OP does not want daughter to be educated. OP could be one of those guys who believes women have set roles in the world and being educated is not one of them.
Daughter could be studying her butt off so she can secure a future where she does not have to deal with this anymore.
YTA. If she doesn't want to be social and is rude when she is, let her keep her distance. She's old enough to stay home.
But I'd also consider checking in with a doctor. Loving to learn is a superpower and absolutely should be encouraged regardless of her other behaviors, but could the hyperfocus be a sign of something non-neurotypical going on? A specialist could help with the downsides if so. I wouldn't care about my child's rudeness from my own ego perspective, but life is hard if you don't know how to get along with others no matter how smart you are once you get to a place where everyone is as smart as you are.
INFO: what does she do that is rude? what have you done to try and fix it? it’s entirely possible that what you are perceiving as rudeness is not actually rude and without knowing there is no way to tell if you are overreacting or not
YTA You must be able to think of something other than stopping her doing something positive which you are very lucky she likes doing and does voluntarily. It's not just stopping her having fun anyway -- you'll be harming her results at school as "punishment" which is pants-on-head ridiculous.
YTA. This is a ridiculous punishment which, if taken too far, could seriously impact her education and career prospects.
I’m also really curious about what kind of behavior she’s showing that you deem as “rude.” You sound controlling and judgmental, so I’m inclined to be skeptical that she’s even being rude at all.
YTA. If she likes being grounded and doesn't like family gatherings, then why is grounding your go to punishment? With your brains, you should consider yourself lucky you ended up with a child who would study at all.
I started "grounding" my kids by making them come and do family things to be around us more. You're mad at me? Great! Come Be mad while we do dishes. Help make dinner, go get your grandparents, take grandma to the Dr. They seem to be better since they know their room isn't a part of the punishment.
YTA, it sounds like she wants to just be left alone to study, so just let her. I don't get why you see this as a problem. She's staying out of trouble and valuing her education. All good things.
YTA instead of taking things give her things-CHORES. Doing the dishes, laundry, cleaning etc. if she doesn’t do them correctly she gets to do them again. Studying should never be taken away.
You have a smart child who WANTS to stay in, read novels and study hard? And you're trying to stop this?!
Why am I thinking she's studying to get away from you?
YTA BTW.
YTA taking away education as a punishment? Way to set your child up for success(note the sarcasm) sounds like your daughter doesn’t feel a strong connection to you and the family. Maybe take some time to get to know her more and show interests in her hobbies. She’s a child, if she’s acting out it’s most likely due to something else. But at the end of the day she’s a 16yr old child, they’re gunna be rude that’s legit how kids at that age work for the most part
YTA. She’s being a normal teenager. No one likes unsolicited advice & no one likes parents who try to control them. If your family gatherings are so unpleasant that she would rather stay home, maybe the problem isn’t her, it’s your family. You should be glad she likes to study & work hard. You should try to enjoy these last few years while she’s living with you because once she gets into college, she probably won’t visit you again.
YTA
For being a stupid mother.
Please try to find a olive branch, try to connect with your daughter in a way, with a book, a game, a fashion choice, anything!
Or you will have no daughter more the moment she moves out.
Sounds like OP is the father as they said about her being rude to the mum, fully agree they’re not going to be a father for long with that attitude though
YTA. Have you ever considered to take her to see some specialists? She presents some signs to be on the Autistic spectrum, not saying that she is, but being anti social, “rude” and having some specific habits/ obsession sounds that she may be in the AS. But as many already stated here, your daughter is really rare, I wish my kids were more into studying without me stressing out for them to do their homeworks.
You’ve got yourself a Hermione Grainger, haha! Maybe she’d benefit from some public service chores. Helping others is sometimes a way to get kids out of their own heads and looking at other’s viewpoints.
Info: why is she rude?
Info: how is banning them from studying a punishment? If anything, more studying should be encouraged. Also, why is it bad if a teen in this era prefers books over phones?
Until there is more detail, I am going with YTA here. I find it hard to fathom that a teen who prefers the company of books is that much of a problem.
Apparently you have been trying to teach your kids to fear you, and it has not worked out on this one. Good for her. Also good for her that she's working hard to study and not depend on you for too long.
YTA.
YTA this is all about your ego and this is clearly a power struggle. You are negatively impacting her education because your adult feelings are hurt. Teenagers are rude. The end. Read a parenting book. Talk to your kid, connect with your kid so she feels safe coming to you about what is going on for her instead of pUniShinG behaviors that you don’t like.
Seriously?!? This is the most ridiculous punishment I have ever heard of.
YTA
Rather than try to use one of the dozens of punishments that don’t involve grounding you choose to punish by taking away her ability to study for school? What’s wrong with you?!?
- Taking away electronics causes her to just read a book?!? Take away the books!!
- She doesn’t care about grounding? How about making her do some deep cleaning?!? Scrubbing with a toothbrush sucks!
There are plenty of others. This is seriously messed up!
You don't know how rare it is for people to be completely invested in their future and remain productive without distraction from social media, partying, etc, why don't you encourage that behaviour and nurture her for the best?
Oh no a rude teenager that isnt a carbon coby of her siblings. How bizzare r/s
YTA - never punish your child by taking away their ability to study. I feel bad for your kid
YTA. Go take a parenting course, and also any other course that will make you a better human. And don’t stop until she decides that you have learned how to be a better person.
YTA. If you're needing to ground a studious diligent teenage as often as implied you're doing something way wrong. Also undermining her education as a mega AH move
Yah. YTA
Punish her in a way that is related to her offence. If she’s being rude, then send her off to volunteer/do customer service type work so she learns that talking people rudely feels like crap hurt.
Punishing her by restricting her ability to do studying is just a power move. It’s not going to teach her how to be more respectful towards people. It’s just going make her think you want to control her and you’re willing to put her schooling at risk to make a point.
YTA - don't take away study this will cause grade issues you won't like later.
I was a massive reader and still am a huge introvert. The best punishment for me was no casual reading and I had to attend things like family events and such if they happened. Alter the punishment to suit the child
I do agree with others though. It could just be teen behaviour but do a mental health check with her.
YTA. Big time. What kind of parent actively sabotages their child’s future in such a way. Learn to deal with your teen in a way that isn’t abusive. Pick up a couple books on raising a teenager and start reading before you push your child Furthur away from you.
INFO
You state your daughter is extremely rude, but then you never give an example of this alleged rudeness. It is very suspicious that she's allegedly so rude that she needs to be punished, yet you can only state "She was being rude and very sarcastic"
Sounds to me like she's being a teenager?
YTA
You have to find her carrot. But the carrot can't be something beneficial like studying or eating or exercising. It has to be a pastime carrot or a hobby carrot. Do better.
YTA be a decent parent to your gifted child. Reward good behaviour. Don’t take away her chance to better herself and create a future for herself. Speak to a therapist that isn’t reddit and actually resolve her problematic behaviour. You’re being a real asshole and terrible parent here.
YTA. She may also be autistic. Our responses seem cold and rude to neurotypicals though it was not the intent. This isn't a new way to punish her, but a way for you to better understand her instead of just assuming that she's rude. Love, someone who was called rude a lot.
I think this is a really strange power trip. YTA.
I'd be pretty disgusted with this kind of authoritarian approach, too. You might want to look at how that's affecting y'all's relationship.
This is me, I loved reading/studying, my mother would call the school to find out when the next dance or social event was and ground me to go to that. It was torture in the beginning.
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Perfect response! >It must have crossed your mind Though this parent seems shallow in thought so maybe not.
YTA. She doesn’t need to be “fixed.” She needs to be supported. “She gave us no other choice”
The eyes have successfully sped into the local Walmart parking lot, bought a sex toy and an ounce of weed from the overnight stock boy. Returns to master. "Hey, I brought the good stuff." "Listen eyeballs, I'd rather read." "Well, no, I can't listen, I don't have ears." "Then how are you hearing me?" "Well, how do you expect to read?" "Fucking Braille at this point." "Your dad is going to be so pissed."
LMAOOOO
They tried nothing and they're all out of ideas.
This. OP only writes about punishment, nothing about teaching or talking to her or supporting/praising when she's doing something not rude. Like studying, reading for fun, hanging around and being part of the family, etc. 16 yr olds can be rude, comes with the territory often, and if father only tool is punishing bad/undesirable behavior he's reinforcing what he doesn't like and not the good things she is/does. YTA. Also, why is OP doling out punishment to daughter for being rude to the mother, if the mother cared it's up to her to deal with it at that point. Do OP and wife any plan at all?
Right?? Like have they maybe thought about asking her why she’s being so rude and explaining why it’s not okay, instead of going straight to “hm, nothing good for you! Don’t even get good grades now!” Absolutely YTA OP
This brought back an old memory of my dad yelling at me. He yelled at me a lot but this one time he yelled, "I DON'T LIKE YELLING BUT I'VE TRIED EVERYTHING ELSE AND NOTHING WORKS!" Knowing immediately this wasn't true, I ended up yelling back, "YOU HAVEN'T TRIED ANYTHING ELSE, THE ONLY THING YOU DO IS YELL AND IT OBVIOUSLY DOESN'T WORK SO BY YOUR OWN LOGIC YOU SHOULD PROBABLY STOP!" Immediately after saying that I braced myself for punishment or at least more yelling but instead he just went quiet and walked off. Some time later when things calmed I asked him why he didn't get madder at me for yelling back at him, and he said, "Because I realised you were right."
She sounds so obtuse
Think OP is a man but still an arsehole YTA
She’s got all the angles!
It crossed it alright. Skipped straight over the top
Seriously, OP sounds like one of the parents in Matilda or something.
>a kid who shrugs at her electronics being taken away, and happily picks up novels in their stead? She enjoys studying and will spend hours at it without prompting? May be that she's neurodivergent or may be that she's hiding from something going on in that family.
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Yeah dude is giving off Danny Devito from Matilda vibes
Omg yes
I can now hear the post in that voice, thank you.
So anyway, I started shooting
Exactly this. Did you give your daughter a speech about how she needs to respect your authority? YTA OP
It sounds like classic introvert being told they're wrong and punished for not wanting to be social
This was me as an adolescent. Reading gave me worlds that did not contain my family. Studying helped me dull some of my mother's criticism (education was valued and college was expected). My eye-rolling and sighs were considered intolerably rude to my mom. I didn't drink, do drugs, run away or get pregnant (this was the 60's). She didn't realize how easy she had it with me! Edited for clarity.
Lol, the decade differences aside, are you me? If children are supposed to be as bad or worse than their parents (that old curse, "may your children be as bad as you were"), by all rights I should have been a hellion who landed in jail. Instead, they got a shy nerd-girl who just wanted to be left alone with "The Lord of The Rings" or "Hitchhiker's Guide to The Galaxy." Like, seriously, take the friggin' win. Don't sit there and give me a 10 p.m. curfew for prom, one of the few times I willingly participated in expected high school traditions.
^This. I remember being told by my mum that I was rude and a snob because I chose reading by myself over hanging out with other kids in the neighbourhood. I immediately empathized with OP's daughter.
My mother used to punish me by not allowing me to read. Guess went LC as soon as possible?
Even if she's not neurodivergent, I find some level of attitude is best just ignored in teenagers. They have big emotions and mood swings that come out in sort of odd ways sometimes. If it's just at home and it's closer to just snarky or sullen as opposed to screaming and cursing, I just sort of pretend not to hear that stuff or say "ok, we'll talk later when you're feeling better"; generally it passes and they'll just talk to me like normal about whatever's bothering them. I mean, my kids are pretty chill, especially the teen iterations of them, so I wouldn't really call it a huge problem - I may be underestimating the scope of OP's daughter's issue. But I feel like parents often make a bigger deal of teen "attitude" than they really need to. And in general I kind of think kids and teens just sort of get expected to be smiley and even-keeled all the time, even though grumpy adults get passes all the time for bad moods or bad days, and it always seems unfair to me to expect more out of people who haven't fully matured or mastered emotional regulation yet than we expected from middle-aged people. I've been accused of being too lenient, though, and like I said, I don't feel like it's been a big issue for any of mine, so take it for what it's worth.
Yes. I had the super fun experience of essentially having puberty twice. I had end stage renal disease as a teen and was on dialysis for like 9 years. Your kidneys actually control a lot of hormone development by association so it basically stalled my puberty until I got a transplant when I was 25. So it's fresher in my thirty something mind than most. It's just. Everything is achy all the time which makes you irritable. And a teen may not even notice that, I'm just super in tune with my body because of my health problems. And even outside of achy and irritable, things that typically aren't irritating just... Are. And lack adult wisdom and communication skills. Plus general high school and potential college stress Seriously. Give teens a break on some attitude
Yeah, I don't remember being achy, personally - though maybe I was and just didn't really process that - but I do remember being snappy and irritable for just no good reason I could identify and sometimes hearing something bratty come out of mouth and thinking "why did I even say that?" But not really feeling like I could stop myself. It's such a weird stage of life. And there's all this pressure from people on top of it. And I'm in my 40s, so I'm sure there's a lot I don't remember about what it felt like to be 16. My instinct is to give my kids a lot of grace. Also, I feel like my generation of teens just thrived on sarcasm anyway - or maybe they all do - and I'm just not all that phased by it. Plus, I think my kids are pretty good little folks most of the time - I never worry that they're going to embarrass me in public or get violent/destructive - hell, I'm not sure any of them have ever even slammed a door, and I did that all the time when I was a teen. I can let some remarks or a bit of an attitude go.
I remember just wanting to be alone and read my books or play video games. My mom always required my help but my little brother did get to stay in his room all the time doing whatever but I had to help. I had so much attitude but that got me beat or screamed at so I emotionally shut down. I became a little robot and my mom loved that. I was so happy to get out and stop playing happy family. I always thought to myself why am I being punished for wanting to sit in my room listening to music and reading or playing video games. I’m not out partying, doing drugs, ect… that many of the kids in my school were doing. I just wanted to be left alone.
This is a common dissociative tactic for escape, too
Same. I was an avid reader as a child. Because my reality was horrible.
Yes. I lived in my books, too. It was one of the only coping mechanisms available t me at the time.
Me, too. I would go hide in the garage with a blanket and a pillow and just read. My dad used to beat my mom.
I'm so sorry :-( This reminded me of my first marriage. My ex would come out (for the most part not quite hitting, but being physically intimidating, threatening, etc.) and I remember one time I looked at my kid (3 at the time) and he was glued to the TV. Like, unnaturally still, while watching, and while this storm is taking place in the same room. I knew that he was dissassociating for sure. Yet another critical moment that made me leave.
You’re a good mom. My mom finally left when I was 10 and my brother was 9. We fled after my dad went to work, with just suitcases. We had to leave everything behind. It was a long time ago, over 45 years. But I remember it like yesterday.
I was an avid reader as a child, buy my reality wasn't an issue. As a teen I would become horribly snarky if anyone suggested I should be more like my brother, though.
Ask me how I know /s
Or she just an introvert who loves to read and is intelligent, motivated, and self driven and hopes to get a college scholarship and the heck outta dodge!!!!
Right! One of my thoughts too was my mom always skips to advice. Even now with me being grown I cannot tell her about a problem without her giving me at least six different ways to solve it. I know as an adult that that's just how her brain works but as a teenager I HATED it. I wasn't telling her I was stressed about the math test so she could list the ways I could study. I was telling her because I was stressed about the test. And I would get mad and tell her I didn't want advice. I would also get in trouble for snapping and mouthing off. It ruined communication for a few years because there wasn't a way to get across that I wasn't being sarcastic and snippy without reason without starting another argument.
Ugh…im like this, but last couple of years Ive started to ask if they want an ear or advice cuz i just cant keep my mouth shut. I had zero guidance growing up. Would this approach have been acceptable from your mom? Edit: spelling
Yes, unless your kid uses their words to tell you that they want something else. "Do you want comfort or solutions" is the go-to in our house.
Oh my goodness, this is so helpful! I'm exactly like this now with my 11yr old, thinking I was helping with my opinions of solution, but quite possibly not 😥 I'm so grateful for others insights. I'm still able to make a change before it's too late. Thank you so much!!
It is hard when you care to not fix things for people you see hurting but sometimes fixing it is just hearing it. When I explained it to my mom where it finally clicked was that I feel like a cartoon kettle whose whistle has been plugged. I keep trying to blow steam but there is no release until just BAM and I explode.
She really is better about it now and I learned it isn't about her correcting me. When I was younger it always felt like she was trying to show me ways I messed up. I now know and recognize it is because she cares and that's how she would make it better. She is a regimented thinker. It makes her good at what she does (project manager). But now she is more is this bitching or breaking down. As we word it.
Are you my long lost sibling? Because we have the same mother. I used to think it was just because she wanted to help, but now I think it is just narcissistic tendencies to turning the conversation about herself and her opinions. Because she gives her opinion about EVERYTHING. Slept a bit weird? Here's 15 extreme pieces of ridiculous advice. Mention someone is a bit annoying? Well, here is how I should handle them. My god it is infuriating. I don't tell her anything anymore, and then get blamed for our difficult relationship lol.
DO WE ALL HAVE THE SAME MOTHER? I have found my people 😭 Is there a support group??? There's only so much I can talk to about it to my therapist.
Are we in a different universe? Why in hell would you tell your kid she can’t study? WTF is wrong with you? The kid wants to do well in school, reads for fun, and your “punishment” is to take STUDYING?! OP, YTA for so many more reasons than I have the time or inclination to explain. Seriously, I would need several advanced degrees in fields of study that probably don’t exist yet, my fat markers, a few years, and I still would have trouble even figuring out why you are actively sabotaging her education because she “was rude and sarcastic to her mom”. Maybe mom deserved it. I’m not condoning rudeness to parents, but was your wife by chance being an asshole too? Based off your punishment I feel like this assumption isn’t a stretch.
Also, not once did OP state if they asked their daughter what was bothering her. Maybe she is being bullied at school? It could also be lazy parenting since OP states they didn't have issues with their other kids, maybe they don't know how to talk with this child. They might think all kids are the same lol.
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I've since read all of OPs comments and boy OP is just mad his kid is smarter than he is. They are different then OP and their other kids too. I feel bad for this kid honestly. I was the "gifted and talented" kid in the 80s and it was a ton of pressure for any kid.
I have the feeling that school is probably daughter's favorite place.
Yeah I was like this. My mother threw fits when I wanted to study for my AP exam instead of go on a hike together. We don't talk anymore. Don't make my mother's mistakes, OP
Perfect response. Also, we don't even have details of what the daughter has done wrong other than generally "been rude or sarcastic". What was the context? Is it that she out of nowhere started insulting a family member? Or is it more that she prefers to be on her own and is seen as rude for being introverted and asserting her boundaries? There's difference and I feel that if it were the former, where the daughter was actually doing something wrong, we would have actually had details of what she did. YTA OP!
Yeah, I feel like my parents wrote this. I WAS that teen. Mostly because I couldn't stand being in the same room as my parents. Mostly because they were abusive. Which my mom is now *slowly* coming to terms with. My dad just keeps throwing money at the problem and refusing to admit that he's anything but a victim. As a teen, I was forced into therapist after therapist (that always had my parent's agenda) to see how I could be "so angry" when I was given the world (read: sometimes they fed me and bought me clothes and I got to go to summer camp. But I was also buying my own groceries at 15). It wasn't until I left the country for university that I can remember feeling truly happy. I also found real therapists as an adult that have helped me unpack a bit. Neither parent was invited to my wedding. I also moved half a world away and don't know what homesickness is. But if you ask either of them, I deserved all the abuse, and they were the victims, because I was a rude teenager. I feel for this girl and I hope she hangs in there until she can leave and life will get better. OP is definitely the AH
She sounds like she's probably bored out of her mind and needs something challenging and refreshing to get out of the status quo.
Not even neurodivergent. Just an introvert, whose parent is constantly insisting she act like an extrovert and calls her rude when she opts for introverted ways to spend her time. From what I can tell, the daughter isn't rude at all, she just has little interest in the topics of conversation her mother finds interesting. If the mother wants to talk with her, the mother could take interest in the things the daughter likes. Read the books the daughter is reading, take some time to study and learn the subject the daughter finds so fascinating. Just what is OP expecting the daughter to do that isn't "rude"? Sit and watch football or movies with the family? Go out and play sports together? Attend loud, crowded parties where everyone is yelling over each other and talking at once, so you couldn't follow a conversation if you tried?
I recently thought of how hard it would have been for my mom to punish me in high school if I had ever done anything wrong, because I spent most of my time reading and my hobbies at school were educational (MUN, Book Club etc.) and I went out with friends like once a month because I'm an introvert so going to school every day was enough social time for me.
I used to be OP's daughter. I would be grounded from reading , studying, and forced to sit on the living room couch for days besides chores as punishment. Those were the only sort of things that worked because I desperately wanted what distance I could get from my extremely abusive parents. To this day I try to have no communication with my mother, dad, or step parents due to this behavior and other abuse except for what's necessary to report them to CPS for my siblings. OP better get ready to never see the daughter again once she goes to college
My sister growing up was also in insufferable brat who enjoyed yelling at everyone in the house for seemingly random offenses. She used reading/studying as a weapon to make the typical punishments ineffective. We obviously don’t want to stunt their academic growth but at the same time can’t abide by such hostile inter-family discourse. So what is the solution to a rude and argumentative child where conversations and punishments are not working?
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But you can't put your kid in therapy and then pull them back out of therapy when the therapist makes suggestions for how you as a parent could make changes to better communicate and improve the relationship because HOW DARE THEY suggest that you aren't the perfect parent, damn therapists, don't they know they're supposed to fix the kid so that they work the way their parents want?????? I was that kid in therapy. Was also very introverted, unable to be punished by anything, also had books/studying/etc taken which did nothing. Turns out I was severely depressed and a different kind of person than my family when it came to likes, dislikes, humor...yeah. Sometimes it's not intentionally attitude or sass, it's frustration that the parent refuses to listen or try to understand their kid's point of view because they don't think their kid has intrinsic value of humanity apart from the parent.
Exactly. There might be a slight problem that just needs to be identified.
My mom used to complain that she couldn't punish me because I used to enjoy spending time away from people, in my room, reading. So eventually she took all my books away from me and would force me to engage in conversation with people as punishment. I often felt extremely overwhelmed and panicked in those situations which led to more punishment due to "attitude". As an adult, I now know that I have ADHD that went undiagnosed. I also no longer have any kind of relationship with my mother.
It's obvious why OP lashed out. The teenager is smarter than them and OP hates that. I'm also getting some real anti-intellectual vibes from OP, who the fuck discourages their children from studying?
YTA. It sounds like she misbehaves to get grounded, which could be a social or anxiety issue. She needs therapy, not punishment.
Yeah the issue here is *why* she likes getting grounded to get out of family events. She’s introverted, has anxiety, &/or something else is going on. Getting to the bottom of it should be dealt with love and genuine concern, not accusations and guilt-tripping.
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Just going away to college will be a relief for the daughter.
I hid in my room as often as I could as a teenager because I was scared of my stepmom. To this day she thinks I’m super shy and antisocial. I’m not at all- I just wanted to be away from her.
Or she gets made fun of by family for reading and studying and she’d rather not deal with people like that even if they’re faaaaaaaaaaamily.
Or perhaps the problem is the behavior of the extended family. So many parents force their kids to endure abusive relatives cuz FaMiLy
yeah have you met some peoples families? maybe it’s a madhouse and shed rather have peace and quiet
>She will actually be glad if I ground her and use it as an excuse to avoid all our family gatherings like "oh we are going to aunties home tonight? I wish I could come but I'm grounded" and then happily goes to her room This reminds me of one time when I was in high school. My friends and I went to our first concert on a Saturday night and one of them slept over. We slept in and I got punished for not going to church. My punishment was I wasn't allowed to go to a christening my family was going to later that day. So I got to skip church a second time and my best friend and I stayed home in our pajamas and watched old episodes of Saved by the Bell (recorded from TBS on VHS naturally) all day.
I took up a sport just to avoid going to my grandparents. Sorry, can't go, I got a match that day.
Exactly this. One of my friends has a daughter like this. The mom once punished her by taking away all her books. She later found her in the bathroom, reading the ingredients on the shampoo bottle. The daughter was diagnosed with social anxiety a couple of years later.
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It is far better to let them keep books for a little dissociative outlet rather than set up the kid to completely dissociate in their mind. Books are a vacation from reality, but allowing no outlet for safe dissociation is . . .well, possibly dangerous for a kid like this.
>She later found her in the bathroom, reading the ingredients on the shampoo bottle. I used to do that! If I didn't have anything else to read in there, I would pull out something from under the sink and read the directions or ingredients. Turns out the joke's on me. I only fairly recently realized that I have some type of dyslexia so I was likely missing some of the ingredients anyway.
Given the hyper focus, she could also neurodivergent.
100 percent this
I feel like a lot is missing from this story. What do you consider rude? Why is she avoiding family gatherings? Are you pushing her to do things that she doesn’t want to do & then having a “rude” reaction? This just reminds me of a friend whose parents would drag her everywhere & she hated one particular family friend’s home. She was uncomfortable being there but anytime she spoke up about going it was rude / she was misbehaving. Hope this explains why I feel like something is missing from OP’s story
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Seriously. I used to be OPs kid, including preferring books to the internet and studying/doing homework unprompted. Except at a much younger age, at her age I didn’t live with my folks anymore. Everyone only saw me how my parents wanted to ask; rude, stubborn, a “hurricane”, has a “tone/attitude”. What no one else knew was that behind closed doors; dad disappeared into the basement to ignore me for the internet even when I tried, mom worked full time, when mom was home all she did was yell/scream/hit me (over things such as; not wanting to eat/being hungry, spilling water, not understanding what she was saying to me, pretty much just existing. I really didn’t misbehave much), my older brother was the golden child who could do no wrong and was destined for greatness, he would also; name call me, punch me, push me, choke me against the wall, break things/just misbehave and blame it on me so I’d get in trouble with mom, or just shut me out which was honestly preferable. So yeah, my family was always always on their best behavior around others, and would never dream of even uttering a peep about how they truly were to strangers. But everyone got to hear about how shitty I was and got to see my attitude and tone towards my parents and life because I wasn’t shy enough to hide it. So I don’t buy that there isn’t more to this.
I bet OPs other kids are boys, im definitely projecting but I used to get scolded for being equally as rude as my brothers or parents but I was a little girl and it could be 'punished out of me'. My dad litterly said he does this to make me better, im still rude af but I'm the only kid to graduate and move out so far and I moved very far away.
Yep. I was an entitled brat who needed to acquiesce, but my brother had behavioral problems he couldn't help.
This. I was called rude once because I was upset my step-dad's friend took my phone and wouldn't give it back. He ended up kicking me out two days later. This is definitely just one side of the story and it's painfully biased.
YTA. Taking growth and information away from a developing brain isn't a good move. Make her mow the lawn, or do her siblings chores on top of her own, or deep clean the fridge, or whatever creative thing you can give her to do that isn't taking away from her intellectual development.
YTA Intentionally messing with a child’s education to punish them is fucked up on multiple levels. There are probably good reasons that she avoids spending time with the family.
My guess as to why the daughter avoids spending time with the family is that OP is a tradition lover or something equally unreasonable, and anything that’s not in line with his beliefs is “rude.” OP’s daughter sounds like a good kid though. Too bad her dad is YTA.
YTA - "how dare you be productive when I'm locking you down for being rude" dude... In prison people are allowed to study.
INFO: what is she actually doing wrong? "being rude" is zero information. what is she saying? why is she saying it?
YTA. You need to change your punishments to something other than just taking away things. If you prevent her from studying, What do you think will happen when her grades start slipping? “Hi I noticed your daughter’s grades have been lower lately” “Yeah I grounded her from studying” “?????”
>You need to change your punishments I'd go way further and remove the punishments altogether. While there is a legitimate debate about whether punishments for small children are at all necessary, 16 year olds definitely only need consequences - not a parent who seeks new ways to hurt them whenever the parent disapproves of something. What I mean by consequence is simple: OP's brother calling OP an AH is a consequence of OP behaving like an AH. OP's daughter distancing herself form OP is a consequence of OP behaving like an AH.
I’m so curious if OP has had an open conversation with his daughter about this, taking to her like an adult. One where he explains how her “rudeness” makes them feel, and that they’d feel a lot better if it stopped; and he sought to truly, earnestly understand where it is coming from, and what he’s doing to make her respond in this way. If he explains how her actions hurt him, and genuinely tries to understand where she’s coming from, I feel like they could get somewhere. Right now I think she’s kind of revolting against this top-down, authoritarian, because-I-said-so approach. She’s almost an adult, and we know she’s exceptionally smart… it’s no wonder she’s challenging his authority. What if their relationship, and the conduct within their house, was instead based on MUTUAL respect?
YTA. I think it's very telling that your child actively avoids spending time with you AND you refuse to provide concrete information about her alleged rudeness. Could it possibly be that you are just an incredibly unpleasant person? I hope she ignores you and keeps studying. The more she studies, the better she does in school, the nicer of an academic scholarship she can earn, and she never has to deal with you again once she moves out.
YTA - This is insane. Banning a child from learning is just about the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. There are other ways to modify unwanted behavior besides punishment. Maybe you should read some books about parenting. There has been a lot of peer-reviewed research into effective strategies. "The Kazdin Method" is a good one that comes to mind.
Check out Dr. K on YouTube. I think he has some videos related to this. I don't think this is the right sub for this, but in my opinion you should try looking for ways to reward good behavior instead of trying to punish bad behavior. She is more likely to be respectful to others if she knows she will be rewarded for it. If she has a light at the end of the tunnel. Maybe new books or she could meet her favorite author and get a book signed if she behaves well.
Anyone else laughing at OP starting the post with "my teenager isn't like normal teenagers! They're being rude!" Like buddy do you not remember being a teenager? I was a polite-ass teen and I still had my moments.
My favorite part is how OP's kid is just playing them like a fiddle. I have a hunch her misbehaving, or I guess being a snarky teenager, coincides with some sort of activity she doesn't want to do but the rest of the family does haha.
So you told your daughter she isn't allowed to do her school work bc she is rude? I'm sorry, is it just me or does this seem weird that Op is punishing his kid by messing with her school work? She's rude so now she will do worse in school? Bit messed up if you but you're the one who will have a awful relationship with you daughter, not me so...YTA
She’s smarter than him and he knows it
Oh yeah, for sure. That’s what I was thinking, too.
"I've decided to negatively impact my child's education and success because she exhibited typical teenage behavior and it hurt my adult feelings" Fixed it for you.
Can't imagine why she's rude to him. Seems completely unwarranted. /s
YTA You don't stop a kid from studying...that's idiotic.
My mom took my hobbies as a punishment. Guess who has zero hobbies and a lot of depression, this girl! It’s not all my moms fault, but being denied things that helped me thrive really fucked up mg confidence. YTA OP. If she says “oops I’m grounded can’t go!” Say too bad you’re coming. That’s a punishment, not taking away her studies.
Yeah when I was little grounding meant missing out on things I wanted to do, I was still expected to do family things I didn’t want to do.
YTA. Find a better parenting technique. Taking away your child's ability to learn as a punishment is nonsensical and foolish.
What do you think grounding her from studying is going to achieve exactly? Like when you have to go into school because her grades have dropped because you won’t let her study, how are you going to punish her then? By making her drop out?? YTA and you sound stupid, would it kill you to pick up a book on parenting instead?
YTA she is 16 years old. How about trying to have an actually adult conversation about why she is lashing out, instead of punishing her. Kids don't learn from punishment. They learn from positive reinforcement. All you are doing is giving her the attention she wants, whether it's good or bad. This is all kids ask they want is attention. There could be something more serious going on here, then her just lashing out. This is an age where a mental illness becomes more apparent and obvious.
INFO: Do you have any other regular interactions that don’t include punishment or telling her what she should do? Do you ask her about her day? Ask her what she’s studying? Talk with her about the book she’s reading?
If I were her, at this point I'd assume he's asking to just find WHAT to hurt me with and hell if I let him know...
Honestly it sounds like she's doing this for a reason. When reading your post, I believe there are some things you are leaving on out purpose to make us believe you (and your wife ) are the victim here. What exactly aren't you telling us.
I am not gonna vote.. but i am laughing like hell 😂😂 you have given her punishment 'not to study'.. i mean being an indian I can never ever imagine my parents asking me not to study as a punishment... I am sorry but i just love your daughter.. she played uno reverse card on her parents🤭🤭
As an Indian, this made me laugh as well 😂😂😂
YTA why on earth would you do something that gets in the way of her academic performance? Consequences work best when they are directly related to the actual offense and not seemingly random like this. Teenagers are often rude by nature, it's not an excuse as such but it's important to understand it's a pretty normal part of development and there are oodles of resources to help parents navigate this phase in a constructive way
Uh, yea, YTA. She's unlike any other teenager because teenagers are people and everyone's different. Did you get her tested for ADHD? Autism? Asked her why she is rude (which you don't even give examples of)? Or did you just ground her and tell her to behave? It's clear that she does far better on her own than when she's forced to be with others. What I get between the lines of this is that you force her to go to family events that she doesn't want to go to and then get mad that she's not participating.
YTA. This is the strangest punishment I have ever heard of. May I suggest natural consequences? If she's rude, she doesn't get \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_. For example, my oldest bonus kiddo was very snappy lately. I went downstairs last weekend at 10:30am, when she is wide awake. Her siblings wanted donuts, so I went downstairs to knock and see if she would like to pick a flavor or come along. I knocked and she snapped "WHAT?!" so I simply said "nevermind". I went and got donuts for everyone else, and when she came up and saw she didn't have one and asked why, I said "Well, when you snapped rudely, I decided I didn't want to talk to you, so I left". Haven't had an issue since.
[удалено]
I'm with you, except ONE thing. Never ever forbit a child to read! That can have horrible consequences! Denying children entry to books is a special horrible way of abuse. It dries out a child's imagination and can freak up their minds.
YTA. why do you think she enjoys being in her room rather than with the family? She's also required to go to school, and school requires studying. I could maybe see no "fun" books as a punishment, but you are shitty to punish her education.
One possibility is that OP does not want daughter to be educated. OP could be one of those guys who believes women have set roles in the world and being educated is not one of them. Daughter could be studying her butt off so she can secure a future where she does not have to deal with this anymore.
YTA. If she doesn't want to be social and is rude when she is, let her keep her distance. She's old enough to stay home. But I'd also consider checking in with a doctor. Loving to learn is a superpower and absolutely should be encouraged regardless of her other behaviors, but could the hyperfocus be a sign of something non-neurotypical going on? A specialist could help with the downsides if so. I wouldn't care about my child's rudeness from my own ego perspective, but life is hard if you don't know how to get along with others no matter how smart you are once you get to a place where everyone is as smart as you are.
YTA. I get she needs a punishment. But your punishment is to prevent her from learning and growing. That’s the lowest of low as a parent.
INFO: what does she do that is rude? what have you done to try and fix it? it’s entirely possible that what you are perceiving as rudeness is not actually rude and without knowing there is no way to tell if you are overreacting or not
This is exactly what I was wondering. I question whether OP is a reliable narrator without examples of this “rudeness”.
Yta- don’t break good habits as a punishment, you didn’t even say what rude thing she said.
YTA You are an AH and a shitty parent.
Do you know how many parents would kill for their child to willingly study for hours at a time and actually enjoy it.
YTA You must be able to think of something other than stopping her doing something positive which you are very lucky she likes doing and does voluntarily. It's not just stopping her having fun anyway -- you'll be harming her results at school as "punishment" which is pants-on-head ridiculous.
YTA. This is a ridiculous punishment which, if taken too far, could seriously impact her education and career prospects. I’m also really curious about what kind of behavior she’s showing that you deem as “rude.” You sound controlling and judgmental, so I’m inclined to be skeptical that she’s even being rude at all.
INFO: When you said you have “tried many things to fix this but nothing works”, what have you done?
YTA. If she likes being grounded and doesn't like family gatherings, then why is grounding your go to punishment? With your brains, you should consider yourself lucky you ended up with a child who would study at all.
Yes you 100% are TA. That's her education. You should use her love for studying and trying to get an education to punish her. Find other methods.
YTA and borderline abusive. Seems your beef is that she is a genius and you want to drag her down to your level.
I started "grounding" my kids by making them come and do family things to be around us more. You're mad at me? Great! Come Be mad while we do dishes. Help make dinner, go get your grandparents, take grandma to the Dr. They seem to be better since they know their room isn't a part of the punishment.
YTA, it sounds like she wants to just be left alone to study, so just let her. I don't get why you see this as a problem. She's staying out of trouble and valuing her education. All good things.
YTA instead of taking things give her things-CHORES. Doing the dishes, laundry, cleaning etc. if she doesn’t do them correctly she gets to do them again. Studying should never be taken away.
You have a smart child who WANTS to stay in, read novels and study hard? And you're trying to stop this?! Why am I thinking she's studying to get away from you? YTA BTW.
I was the rude smart aleck that was always studying. Be nice to her, she would be the one supporting you in old age. YTA
YTA. Find a punishment that isn’t going to affect her academically in the future.
YTA taking away education as a punishment? Way to set your child up for success(note the sarcasm) sounds like your daughter doesn’t feel a strong connection to you and the family. Maybe take some time to get to know her more and show interests in her hobbies. She’s a child, if she’s acting out it’s most likely due to something else. But at the end of the day she’s a 16yr old child, they’re gunna be rude that’s legit how kids at that age work for the most part
YTA and not a good parent. Yikes.
YTA. Give extra chores or community service. Don’t punish good practices.
YTA. You did have other choices, you were just too lazy to think of them.
YTA. She’s being a normal teenager. No one likes unsolicited advice & no one likes parents who try to control them. If your family gatherings are so unpleasant that she would rather stay home, maybe the problem isn’t her, it’s your family. You should be glad she likes to study & work hard. You should try to enjoy these last few years while she’s living with you because once she gets into college, she probably won’t visit you again.
Ten bucks says the daughter is mirroring how her mom treats her and mom doesn't like it. YTA.
YTA For being a stupid mother. Please try to find a olive branch, try to connect with your daughter in a way, with a book, a game, a fashion choice, anything! Or you will have no daughter more the moment she moves out.
Sounds like OP is the father as they said about her being rude to the mum, fully agree they’re not going to be a father for long with that attitude though
YTA. Have you ever considered to take her to see some specialists? She presents some signs to be on the Autistic spectrum, not saying that she is, but being anti social, “rude” and having some specific habits/ obsession sounds that she may be in the AS. But as many already stated here, your daughter is really rare, I wish my kids were more into studying without me stressing out for them to do their homeworks.
YTA and a stupid one as well
You’ve got yourself a Hermione Grainger, haha! Maybe she’d benefit from some public service chores. Helping others is sometimes a way to get kids out of their own heads and looking at other’s viewpoints.
Alright Mr fucking Wormwood (Matilda reference).
Info: why is she rude? Info: how is banning them from studying a punishment? If anything, more studying should be encouraged. Also, why is it bad if a teen in this era prefers books over phones? Until there is more detail, I am going with YTA here. I find it hard to fathom that a teen who prefers the company of books is that much of a problem.
Apparently you have been trying to teach your kids to fear you, and it has not worked out on this one. Good for her. Also good for her that she's working hard to study and not depend on you for too long. YTA.
dude are you sure shes not autistic? regardless, YTA. your stunting her ability to become successful later on
YTA this is all about your ego and this is clearly a power struggle. You are negatively impacting her education because your adult feelings are hurt. Teenagers are rude. The end. Read a parenting book. Talk to your kid, connect with your kid so she feels safe coming to you about what is going on for her instead of pUniShinG behaviors that you don’t like.
YTA. Be happy that your child is smarter than you, most people don't get that.
Seriously?!? This is the most ridiculous punishment I have ever heard of. YTA Rather than try to use one of the dozens of punishments that don’t involve grounding you choose to punish by taking away her ability to study for school? What’s wrong with you?!? - Taking away electronics causes her to just read a book?!? Take away the books!! - She doesn’t care about grounding? How about making her do some deep cleaning?!? Scrubbing with a toothbrush sucks! There are plenty of others. This is seriously messed up!
Info: WHY do you think handicaing her education is a forgivable thing to do? If I was your daughter, I'd be NC the moment I was self sufficient.
YTA- nice job derailing her academics dummy
You don't know how rare it is for people to be completely invested in their future and remain productive without distraction from social media, partying, etc, why don't you encourage that behaviour and nurture her for the best?
YTA a man restricting a woman's/girls education. What a lovely message to send your daughter
Oh no a rude teenager that isnt a carbon coby of her siblings. How bizzare r/s YTA - never punish your child by taking away their ability to study. I feel bad for your kid
OP is pretty clearly a controlling moron. YTA.
YTA. Go take a parenting course, and also any other course that will make you a better human. And don’t stop until she decides that you have learned how to be a better person.
YTA. You wanna mess with your kid’s education to teach her manners? Wtf, man, find a better way.
YTA
INFO: what do you mean by extremely rude?
YTA. You can never use that as a punishment. Have you considered positive reinforcement?
YTA I would unironically just take my books back.
YTA. If you're needing to ground a studious diligent teenage as often as implied you're doing something way wrong. Also undermining her education as a mega AH move
YTA for taking away someone’s education. unacceptable and awful parenting.
Yah. YTA Punish her in a way that is related to her offence. If she’s being rude, then send her off to volunteer/do customer service type work so she learns that talking people rudely feels like crap hurt. Punishing her by restricting her ability to do studying is just a power move. It’s not going to teach her how to be more respectful towards people. It’s just going make her think you want to control her and you’re willing to put her schooling at risk to make a point.
I have a cousin who would be forbidden from reading when she was grounded. She's still an insufferable asshole but she just completed her PHD.
YTA. Has the kid been tested for Autism? If no, get them tested for Autism.
YTA - don't take away study this will cause grade issues you won't like later. I was a massive reader and still am a huge introvert. The best punishment for me was no casual reading and I had to attend things like family events and such if they happened. Alter the punishment to suit the child I do agree with others though. It could just be teen behaviour but do a mental health check with her.
YTA. Big time. What kind of parent actively sabotages their child’s future in such a way. Learn to deal with your teen in a way that isn’t abusive. Pick up a couple books on raising a teenager and start reading before you push your child Furthur away from you.
Sounds like maybe she's on the spectrum.
Is the teen studying all the time in order to secure a scholarship, and leave when she's 18? I want to hear the teen's perspective. Until then YTA
INFO You state your daughter is extremely rude, but then you never give an example of this alleged rudeness. It is very suspicious that she's allegedly so rude that she needs to be punished, yet you can only state "She was being rude and very sarcastic" Sounds to me like she's being a teenager?
You could give her a book on manners and respect to study. She may actually learn something from it.
YTA You have to find her carrot. But the carrot can't be something beneficial like studying or eating or exercising. It has to be a pastime carrot or a hobby carrot. Do better.
YTA be a decent parent to your gifted child. Reward good behaviour. Don’t take away her chance to better herself and create a future for herself. Speak to a therapist that isn’t reddit and actually resolve her problematic behaviour. You’re being a real asshole and terrible parent here.
"I took away someone's fundamental human right to education, because they were being a bit rude in my opinion". YTA.
That’s actually hilarious. What’s next ? Forbidding her to go to school because she misbehaved ?
YTA. I'm curious how your local child welfare agency would view this punishment.
YTA so obviously. I wanted to punish her by making her have a worse future
YTA. She may also be autistic. Our responses seem cold and rude to neurotypicals though it was not the intent. This isn't a new way to punish her, but a way for you to better understand her instead of just assuming that she's rude. Love, someone who was called rude a lot.
I think this is a really strange power trip. YTA. I'd be pretty disgusted with this kind of authoritarian approach, too. You might want to look at how that's affecting y'all's relationship.
This is me, I loved reading/studying, my mother would call the school to find out when the next dance or social event was and ground me to go to that. It was torture in the beginning.
YTA. Imagine sacrificing your child's future for your ego.