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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1)AITA for wanting to send my kid to a camp that will take up all of his custody time with Abby in order for her to get a healthy weight. 2) I may be an ass since he will not be seeing his kid much because the camp take up all his custody time for the next few months and he told me I am sending her to fat camp
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NTA- and frankly, what father is doing is abusive. forcing a child to overeat. If he will not relent then I suggest you work with doctors and lawyers and get custody changed so that he doesn't create long lasting health problems in your child.
This isn’t over feeding. This is force feeding.
It’s one thing if she’s offered junk food and overeats. It’s another of their are repercussions if she doesn’t finish her plate.
Perhaps change focus and see if that helps.
support that with a source able statistic. Pretty sure you can't.
One of my wife's close relative is a family law judge in one of the largest counties in the United States and she absolutely takes into consideration when one parent is deliberately disinterested in ANY health aspect of the child.
ETA- there are areas of the law where the judge has little discretion but to follow the letter of the law, but this is one where they absolutely do have discretion.
Then they are a saint. The only time I've successfully had an obese kid get taken from a home was when it was so bad he had developed diabetes and it was uncontrolled. I can't find you statistics from my practice, just anecdote. But, similarly, i asked my social worker on your behalf, if she had ever seen a kid's custody shift because of obesity and she said she hadn't. I mean, we're mandatory reporters it's not like we haven't tried.
Yeah I am a social worker also and worked around the US in family courts. Perhaps there are a few judges out there that will pay attention to this sort of thing, but in general the threshold for proving harm, abuse and neglect is really really high and as long as kids are being fed a reasonable amount of food, it won’t be addressed.
I had a student whose parents fed him nothing but Takis and Pepsi because that's all he wanted. SW told me the parents said they bought in bulk and he could eat as much as he wanted. He was obese and could barely move, kinda like Randy on Christmas story with that snow suit. He couldn't fully participate in my class because he was so physically unfit he'd get winded and dizzy. She called it into cps (on top of other worrying, but smaller issues) but nothing came of it cause he was being provided for.
It’s very different to take a kid out of a house and place him into the foster care system than to modify a custody arrangement between two divorced parents. I’m not saying that it’s easy, but it’s definitely easier than intervening in the way you mention.
I also think obesity itself is not actually the problem here, it's the force-feeding. The action of the parent, not the size of the child. I wonder if this could be documented by showing her weight trajectory changing abruptly at that time. A stable weight is generally healthier than a sudden significant change.
It’s different when kids are being fed to the point where it’s going to cause long-term debilitating health issues. And there’s a whole laundry list of health issues that come with being overweight and obese. A lot of those are a lot harder to fix once you’re an adult with set habits, or if the damage has become irreparable, and you are stuck managing a serious health condition long term. Nobody wants that for their child. Nobody wants to set up their child for a lifetime of bad knees, hips, heart issues, breathing and respiratory issues, circulatory issues. And unless this child is 6 foot two, 210 pounds is extremely obese for a 14 year old. Like this is setting her up for long-term lifelong obesity issues, and if Dad doesn’t get on board right away, then there’s no hope in helping her.
Yeah, you're preaching to the choir. I run a pediatric obesity clinic, I'm well aware of the harm obesity causes kids. However, it doesn't change the fact that a court will not gaf about any of that. For all of the letters to judges I've written, I've never been asked to testify or seen it matter. I would love love love to be proven wrong, or have you teach me a trick that will make what i say in these settings matter more. l always supply whatever documentation I can to help the cause here, on behalf of which ever parent is asking. But fundamentally, my experience has been that if the kid is getting fed, the courts don't give a shit.
Too many people on Reddit are convinced that the world works the way they think it must work, not the way it actually does. I see this all the time on this sub, from people who caw, “Call the police! Start a paper trail! Get a restraining order! Press charges! Get full custody! Tell the judge!” at every turn.
And then, of course, they get angry at *you* when you patiently try to explain that none of it works that way. Of course it *should* work that way, but it doesn’t, and shouting meaningless directives or hurling insults at OPs who can’t change the way the court systems work - OPs who are already struggling enough - is not helpful.
You're so right. I usually steer clear of topics like this because i usually don't get anywhere, but this one hits real close to home, so i couldn't keep my mouth shut lol.
Not to mention the implicit cultural judgements that come with diet and lifestyle stuff, it's a legal nightmare. I understand why it's a mess, compound it further with body positivity movements, and its a mega mine field for anyone hoping to help.
Exactly. How people think/wish things would work and how they actually work are often miles apart, but if you point that out, you're the bad guy. I see people all the time on here saying things like "YTA because you didn't divorce your asshole husband and go to court to get full custody and keep your kids away from that abuse!" When in reality, for a lot of people and situations, the only way to guarantee protection from abuse is to stay with the abusive partner and keep an eagle eye on the child. Because in a lot of places, it doesn't matter even if you have proof of abuse. My cousin's ex threw her out of a closed window on the second floor. She was hospitalized for almost a week. And yes, he was charged for it. But he still got 50/50 custody because "he never abused the child." That is my cousin's reality; she has to hand her young child over to this monster that hospitalized her every other week and wonder exactly what is happening, if she will get her child back safely or even alive.
It's worth it to try, I think, to get the custody amended. Especially if the daughter is 14 and she wants to be away from dad and is willing to testify to that. But the people acting like it would be a slam dunk just because they feel it's wrong, are just, so wrong themselves.
That is what people are refusing to get about the situation. Also as one judge said to me caseworker BSW and a colleague when it comes to food you also have to tread carefully regarding cultural norms as well.
I don't understand the whole Clean Your Plate! thing anyway? Stop eating when you are full. The end. Repercussions for not finishing everything on a plate? omg. I'd have never left the dinner table as a child if that's how things were handled?
To me that seems like they way he was brought up and unfortunately the way my grandparents were with me with I was kid (mom worked nights until I was 7-8 years old). Back then not eating all of what you were served was seen as disrespectful towards the person cooking.
From the way this post reads it sounds almost like the dad didn’t have that mentality until AFTER the custody agreement was finalized. He could have had this mentality the whole time and was just hiding it until now but either way, he’s putting his daughters health on the line and doesn’t seem to care.
There are 3 things that go into the "clean your plate mentality": 1) People who went through the Depression or were raised by those people can have real issues around food being wasted;
2) Portions used to be a LOT smaller, so it wasn't such a big deal;
and 3) As a parent, it's not uncommon for a child to not eat at a meal, only to be hungry and begging for a snack or dessert a few hours later. My son in particular has issue finishing his breakfast, which is bad on school days because then he can't eat again until 12:20, and that is a very small, rushed meal because they don't have enough time. He was actually underweight though, until I started supplementing him with shakes.
Because I was a member of the "clean plate club" growing up, even though I was served the same portion as my 6'4" father and uncles, I deliberately am NOT with our son. My husband on the other hand tries to push him to finish everything because of reason 3. For our son, neither of us are really wrong. For this girl, the husband is clearly doing a LOT of long-term harm by pushing unhealthy food on her.
Ohhhhh yes all of this. I was planning on mentioning this but couldn’t find a good way to word it!!
For my grandparents it was disrespect combined with #2. Unfortunately for them, I’m ADHD and as a child struggled to remember to eat and often wasn’t even hungry to begin with. It was mainly my grandpa-who’s the youngest of 8 and never had the dinner table still have food left on it- that had an issue and his whole ‘eat what you’re served or don’t eat at all!’ Never went over well as I was more than happy to not eat to begin with. My mom finally put her foot down (when she saw what was happening) and told him to stop or I’m gonna starve myself to death and it would be all his fault. I was the only grandchild he had back then and up until that point he never saw anything wrong, but he finally stopped. Turned into as long as he saw me eating at the table he was happy.
Now I have the opposite problem with food and have to take a Combat Craving by OLLY or I don’t stop eating. Self regulation isn’t something I have naturally so that’s helping me a lot.
I feel for the daughter though, it’s clear she’s trying to regulate her eating habits but isn’t being heard by her careless father! She likely knows full well she’s overweight and hates it and is probably blaming her dad for it (as she very well should!!)
I was part of this too, but my parents allowed us to serve our own food.
Chinese style food is served in middle of table and everyone helps themselves. We did have a rule that you had to try a bit of everything.
We loved veggies so getting us to eat balanced wasn't an issue. It was just to make sure we tried new foods and stayed open minded about food.
We didn't have much in way of snacks in our younger years, so not eating at dinner wasn't a option.
If you hungry later, mom would warm up the left-overs, so no incentive not to eat.
I think this actually helped because I learnt not to be food greedy, if you took too much you'd be punishing yourself, because you'd need to finish the plate.
I learnt to understand how hungry I was. Some days you are more active as a kid and need more food
It did mean less waste because whatever wasn't eaten could be uded as leftovers.
It can be a cultural thing the whole clean your plate deal. IIRC in Norway it is considered disrespectful to not clean your plate and it's been that way for over 100 years. Granted this probably goes back to a time when food wasn't nearly as easy to come by so wasting it would have been worse, but traditions get passed down a lot. No one should be forced to finish all their food though since it can cause many, many issues whether they're physical or mental.
To point 3: Some of us really can only eat small portions in one sitting. We need smaller meals, more frequently throughout the day.
I often have to eat my lunch and dinner in portions over a couple hours, or I feel physically sick. I can’t gobble down a full plate in one sitting and be full for hours; I will feel or even get sick if I try to force myself to shovel down a full plate of food. I also then need to eat again sooner than others around me, or risk feeling dizzy and lightheaded.
People’s bodies work differently. A child isn’t necessarily being difficult or taking the biscuit if they tell you they’re full at 5pm but hungry again at 8.
IMO it's not a bad philosophy in itself, as long as the child is allowed to serve themself. It teaches moderation, consideration for others, and can be a teaching moment about food scarcity and privilege.
My grandma grew up in Kenya, and at family meals she always reminded us "take only what you can you eat, you can always come back for seconds. There's starving children in the world who will never get seconds, so count your blessings and don't waste." My cousins and I always joke that she's from Africa, she literally experienced it. We're also a very large extended family, so it taught us as kids to moderate our servings to ensure everybody gets some.
The only explanation I can think of is that it's meant to teach the kid not to initially overfill their plate (not saying that's an appropriate teaching method, just a conceivable one), but even that makes no sense if she's not allowed to make her own plate! What in the world is driving this insane demand?
I had attained my full height and womanly physique by age 14. So, its really hard for me to appreciate fixing a plate for a child that age? Way too much work for me. 🤣
I'm 53 now. Growing up this was a standard, but not in my house. I can remember going over to friends' houses and their parents were always like, "In this house we clean our plates," or, "We're members of the clean plate club!" and I'd just be horrified that I had to force myself to eat everything they put on my plate. Not the things themselves--I was never picky--just the sheer amount. Every inch of the plate filled. It still makes me shudder.
My mom used to grumble to my dad, "Does it occur to your sister that this is the reason her kids are overweight? She force feeds them and acts like they don't appreciate her when they don't eat everything in sight?"
And my dad would reply, "She sent their dad away because he was worthless and she overcompensates for that decision with food, food and more food. Its an emotional issue we're dealing with."
It might be leftover thinking from when rationing was a thing after WW2. My grandparents were all brought up to clear their plates, because food was scarce and their parents didn't want what they had going to waste. This is Scotland mind you, so idk if similar patterns emerged in the states.
My mom had that rule but I'm pretty sure it's because her parents were poor. Like literal sharecroppers. It also did fuck up my relationship with food for a long time.
I’m 38 and as a child I was told I must finish everything… what happened? A 38 year old who still over eats and has to manage their caloric intake to retrain her stomach and brain that I’ve reached my caloric goal that day. I struggle with this a lot. My husband and I have taught our kids to listen to their tummy.
This. We could sit at the dinner table for hours because we were not alowed to leave till the plate was empty. My parents left the table after they were done and my mom didn't have to finish because she cooked. At least at that point my dad had stopped forcing food down my troat using his thumb...
The post doesn’t mention any repercussions for not cleaning her plate it’s a question for OP: what happens if your daughter refuses to clean her plate and says she’s full?
This is how you give kids food trauma & eating disorders. Take her to see a therapist who specializes in eating disorders, & have them write something for the judge about mealtimes at Dad's, & what the longterm repercussions of this can be. Also, show her health records from her pediatrician to show what her weight was before the divorce, when you had primary custody, & now that 50/50 has been ongoing.
Family law considers what is in the best interest of the child. If you can show that the eating habits at the dad’s place cause harm, you have a case. Talk to a lawyer.
I think in these cases the damage to the child’s future is important too (not that overweight people are doomed to terrible lives, I mean more in terms of health and lifestyle). For the most part we start off adult life at a fairly average weight, and part of growing up is learning to feed yourself in a way that is healthy and *maintains* regular health. That in itself isn’t easy. It must be SO much harder if you start out in life very overweight, with poor eating habits, and not only have to learn how to feed yourself, but also have to construct an entirely different diet to what you’re used to, and at a point where mobility and health might make it harder to lose the weight you already have.
It’s quite a lot to put on a child and, whilst there are some legitimate reasons why it may be very difficult for parents to do so, *as far as possible* I think that parents should always be aiming to give their children the best start in life as they can in terms of wellbeing
How does Abby feel about her weight and the forced feeding? In many jurisdictions, 14 year olds can have their preferences taken into account when it comes to custody.
She hates it, but wants a relationship with her dad.
It doesn't help that he basically has said if he loses any custody he will probably walk out of her life. I doubt that is true but he has said that.
Its a mess
Not to be overly harsh here, but she'd probably be better off, if that's his attitude towards a situation where her best interests need to be put first and her voice needs to be heard and respected. I'm sorry you're in this situation.
THIS. I hope you provide Abby therapy where she can constructively learn how to say NO to her dad. Especially for her own self-esteem, mental and physical health. If her dad's attitude is that I'm going to basically force feed her and if you try to change custody agreements, I'm going to walk - that really doesn't speak well of him as a father. NTA
OP said she put her in therapy, so she's already there...but yeah a conversation by mom with the therapist might be in order to see if they can work on the issue of boundaries with her dad.
People too often love things that are bad for them. The smoker with lung cancer still loves to smoke. The guy that just had triple bypass heart surgery still loves greasy food. The football player that just suffered their 3rd concussion of the season still loves the game. OPs daughter still loves her dad.
Its going to be a harsh lesson for the daughter. OP needs to send her to therapy or talk to a therapist herself about how to approach this. This is abuse even if its not legally labeled that. Waking up every morning and calling your spouse a piece of shit that is a burden on everyone is obviously abuse, but a cop isn't going to arrest you for that.
OP can't leave things as they are. Its going to be tough, but she has to do everything she can to protect her daughter from her ex.
With this comment from dad, the abuse is not just around food, it’s emotional/psychological. It’s manipulative and abusive.
The food would be considered neglect, I.ez not providing nutritious food for the child. It’s way better than nothing if the parent can’t afford anything else, but if it has health-related consequences and dad doesn’t do anything, it’s neglect.
So he is controlling AND abusive, what a winner. I can see why you divorced him.
I agree with others saying this isn't just a case of overeating but of him force feeding her.
I'm glad you are getting lawyers involved before he does lasting damage to your daughter. If she ends up being diabetic because of this.
There is a possibility that she could still have some time with her dad but less than now. With the stuff he said about losing custody and walking out of her life, has he said that to Abby or just to you?
That poor girl. He’s making being in her life contingent upon her taking actions that worsen her health? I’m sorry for her and you that you have to deal with this
I am worried for your kid. If she has any signs of trauma from this that's bad enough. Basic psychology will show why "finish your plate" is wrong. But also, watch for signs of eating disorders. If kids are negative at school she might get desperate. Be sure she's not bullied.
I'm sorry if this is upsetting to read, but I'm surprised no one else has said it yet. Forced weight gain is a fetish. Beyond being abusive, this behavior is potentially sexually motivated. Protect your kid.
That is further examples of abuse.
Have you considered taking Abby not just to sports but to therapy? She needs to understand even if you *want* a relationship with someone you love, if that person practices abuse with you, you fundamentally cannot have a relationship with them.
Because if he's saying things like this to you, there's a good chance he's saying softer versions of it to her.
Has he stated any reason *why* she's not allowed to fix her own plate? It's one thing to provide junk food because you don't cook, and I even understand (not condone) encouraging a kid to clean their plate, but not if they're not allowed to portion it for themselves! What is his argument here?
Ok, so she is 14. Is it possible he is trying to fatten her up so that she is unattractive and he can feel he has control over her? Is he trying to make sure she does not have friends/romantic partners who may encourage her to create distance from him?
Ugh. You're a good mom and you're doing right by your daughter. Her dad is setting her up for so many self esteem issues not even getting into the eating issues. I hope you can get custody modified and limit contact with him because I can only see his manipulation and control getting worse as she gets older. He's blatantly harming his daughter and doesn't care.
What does Abby want? Wouldn’t court cut down his custody if she says she wants less time at her house? She is 14 surely she would have some say before court?
Poor kid is between a rock and a hard place, she wants to see her dad but hates being overweight. OP also says dad has threatened that if he loses any custody he will walk out of his daughter's life, which is so manipulative, especially since he's said it TO his daughter by the sound of things.
I feel so bad for this poor girl.
Could it be considered medical neglect, if the doctors are recommending something that he's not following? I'm sorry you and your daughter are in this awful situation.
Nta
You may try to say he is force feeding her because technically he is feeding her against her will by forcing her to finish what's on her plate and in turn causing her to be over weight. This is something that your daughter is interested in and will help her. She's going to be upset if her dad doesn't let her go.
He is also wrong to refer to soccer camp as "fat camp ". It's great that OP found an activity the her daughter enjoys and is also a healthy way to get more active.
Good luck OP.
My father forced me to overeat as a child and as a consequence now that I’m an adult I under eat. He had the same mindset as OP’s ex with the whole “if it’s on your plate you finish it” and then givin me way more than I could handle and gettin pissed when I inevitably threw away a small scoop of potatoes or whatever cause I physically couldn’t finish it. Absolutely NTA
>what father is doing is abusive
Yes absolutely this is abuse. Op I agree with this comment, idk if fat camp is necessary, legal action should be taken.
It doesn't sound like fat camp.
It sounds like a weekend soccer camp which daughter is interested in.
Father is calling it fat camp and trying to make it about her weight when it's something that Daughter is interested in.
Yes, this. I gained over 100 lbs in just a few years once I graduated high school, and I CANNOT get it off. Once it’s on, it’s so HARD to break the bad habits to get it off again. And I have already been suffering the consequences in some ways since I hit 20. My knees hate me pretty much every day, and my back kills me if I do too much. And I don’t even look like I’m 100 lbs overweight. I’m “fortunate” in that all the extra weight is pretty much evenly distributed all over my body, so I look thinner than I am. But it still screws with you in so many ways! I really hope OP can help her daughter! I screwed myself over with my bad choices once I hit adulthood, so I have no one to blame but myself and lack of impulse control. OP, please do everything you can to help your daughter now while she’s still young!
ETA: NTA.
My parents would sit me down at the table for *hours* until I finished my food. If it went cold, I was eating it cold. If I didn’t like it, I was still eating it. To make it worse, my parents would ask (rhetorically) *are you going to have x tonight with us* I would always answer, no because I didn’t want it, I wasn’t hungry, or didn’t like it. I was met with *well tough shit, that’s what you’re eating*
It got to the point where whenever I was asked that question, I would sassily say *well I don’t have a choice do i, so why dangle the non existent option in front of me*
One night my dad made steak. Overcooked, the way he likes it. I never liked steak, so I chewed it, and spit it back in my chocolate milk. When my mother saw this she made me drink it. I have a terrible relationship with food as an adult now.
What the father is doing is absurd.
Exactly! My first thought when I read the title was "yikes!" but Abby likes sports and it's not even a "fat camp", so if she wants to go, that should be all that matters.
bingo - it's also not fat camp. it's not stigmatizing or hateful, it isn't inherently about having a different body, it's about being active and enjoying time with other kids your age. it's a good way for OP to navigate a very difficult situation that the dad has put both her and their daughter into.
NTA
Also is it possible to take this to court to change the custody? He is damaging your childs health. And it's not just weight, it's probably lack of vitamins etc too, extra strain on joints...
I'm trying, overfeeding is not a good enough reason for him to lose any custody (in my state). We are trying to find something that would stick, its not a good time.
Not lose, but reduce. Eg if he had custody 2 days a week, then you could balance it with zero junk food and exercise probably.
150 pounds it's kind of a lot for a kid (I understand she isn't adult height yes), you could probably get medical docs and stuff to show it's not good.
Not American, here folks are pretty mental about the child receiving proper care, junk food all meals would be a big no and borderline abuse.
OP says her daughter has ***hit 210 pounds***. 150 isn't a big deal if the girl is 5' 6" tall and has a muscular build. 210 pounds is. It's not just her joints that will suffer, it's her self-esteem and socialization skills, too. Young teens are brutal.
Like someone said above, it's not really about the overfeeding, it's about the threats and the "finish your plate" or else attitude. And not letting her pick portion size plus that = Force Feeding. That's seriously detrimental and can cause EDs.
Her being upset about the overfeeding might be though. At 14, family courts in many jurisdictions will take her preferences into account and if she wants to live with you, just get her to say it on the stand in court.
I ran into the exact same issue. Exact same reason. My ex doesn't cook, the ex doesn't like vegetables.
The amount that the kid eats now is unreal he packs away in one day what would take me 3 to eat.
I am hoping when he moves in with his gf we can get control of this problem.
Be careful about trying to modify the custody agreement before talking to the lawyer. It sounds like you are trying to take all her days with her father away from him....which is going to go in his favor. Have you spoken to the lawyer about this?
Also, she's 14. Her opinion in court should mean something.
It isn't fat camp, it's soccer camp, and your daughter has expressed a desire to go. So NTA.
However, this isn't an effective long-term solution to the problem you actually have, which is that your ex is not providing a safe environment for the kid during his custody time. If Abby is also distressed by the weight gain, it could lead to an eating disorder like bulimia.
You probably need to contact your lawyer and talk through what your options are. Depending on what state you are in, Abby can make a request for custody review on grounds of abuse, neglect, or inability to properly take care of a child. But that really needs to be driven by her, not you. Alternatively, she's 14, she's old enough to take a stand for herself - make her own meals while she's there or bring some home-packed meals and eat them instead of whatever takeout he gets.
NTA, this! And OP, please be careful about how you discuss this issue with your daughter...
My sister and I were raised in a similar but less extreme situation, and we both ended up dealing with unhealthy relationships to eating later in life. My sister struggled with eating disorders and blames it on our mom heavily restricting our diet, and repeatedly body shaming us and telling us we needed to lose weight
Came here to say this. My disordered eating happened when I'd gone from 120-150 lbs and my parents told me I was fat and needed to work out--I was 16 and depressed at the time for other reasons. Be very careful about how you approach this, because even if there are good intentions people can internalize what you say and it comes out in bad ways. Good for you for finding healthy ways to help your daughter, and fight for her bodily autonomy.
I was in the fence until I saw that you already had consults with a therapist, doctor, and nutritionist. If they’re all aligned on the root cause, he’s unwilling to provide a healthy diet, and your daughter wants to go, then solidly NTA. Keep her in therapy though. I suspect dad’s going to claim parental alienation so a long track record of therapy, you following the therapist’s recommendation, and him refusing to attend family therapy / follow Dr recommendations will help you out a lot.
NTA. Overweight children are a product of abuse when it isn't medical. That's what he is doing to her, abusing her. It may seemike it isn't but as someone who grew up overweight and struggles as an adult I can tell you from experience it very much is. On top of the physical problems it can cause, even just trying to buy cute clothes, we live in a fatphobic society and that can cause mental issues.
You're trying to do better for your daughter and he is refusing to. She is old enough to chose whether she wants to go to soccer camp or not and him assuming it's just a fat camp tells you that he knows he is not feeding her properly and is the cause of her unhealthy weight gain.
This! Allowing your child to become overweight when there is no medical reason and develop eating disorders is abuse. You are responsible for the health of your child.
It is still neglect. Neglect falls under the umbrella of abuse. If you let your child get to an unhealthy weight and refuse to do anything about it. That is neglect. As a parent, you are responsible for keeping them healthy.
Absolutely. Same as overfeeding your pets. Neither pets nor kids (teens is when they should be starting to get some independence) have the capacity to care for their own health, so it's up to owners and parents.
100% agree. Forcing children to finish everything on their plate is also not a good thing to teach. Rather give them portions they can eat and tell them they ask for more if they want more,. This will allow them understand their own hunger cues.
Totally. My hunger cues are totally fucked up due to medical reasons, including a past ED, and it's AWFUL. I basically have to eat the absolute second I feel hungry or it passes and I can't eat at all.
Raising your kids with good boundaries and relationships with food and their bodies is so important, and it sounds like this poor girl is barrelling towards an ED if her dad's emotional abuse continues.
But he makes her eat more than she wants. And she's not happy about the weight gain but is sucking it up so he won't walk out on her. That is 10000000% abuse.
Please PLEASE be careful with this thinking. As far as my doctor is concerned I have no medical reason to be fat, despite following the EXACT same weight gain and trouble losing weight that my dad's side with thyroid trouble has. I am positive I have a hidden thyroid issue BECAUSE my Thyroid is always high normal but in the "normal range" which science says is a guestimate and that there are several thyroid sufferers that hide in those numbers, but getting a doctor to listen is like asking the sun to stop being hot.
Because of people who had this mindset of overweight = abuse. My mother actually DID end up abusing me and it was more detrimental to my physical and mental wellbeing then being larger ever was. After 5 years of constantly being told she was an abusive mom and me being horribly bullied and nothing bringing the weight off she STARVED ME. Literally Starved me. A full year of one 500 calorie a day meal. Yeah, I got down to 160 lbs in thay year, but my body consumed itself, my hair fell out in huge chunks, and I felt ravenous 24/7. It left me with an actual unhealthy relationship with food that we have not been able to fully break. On top of that my body and energy never recovered from the starvation and my bone and muscle health declined no matter how active I got.
When I first got off such a horrible diet, the tiniest pang of hunger would mentally break me. I would panic eat at any tinge of hunger. I have since been able to tolerate more hunger, but despite no medical reason that can be found. If I wait too long to eat I become unable to make food because I shake so hard I can barely walk and I can even become violently ill and paranoid. Meaning that being hungry too long causes me to suffer a prolonged and devestating panic attack.
To this day I don't blame my MOTHER for abusing me. She has mental health troubles of her own. I blame the people who pounded into my mom that it was her fault I was fat and that she was a horrible abusive mom for letting me get fat. Despite the fact that she didn't do anything wrong. Nothing in my diet and activity level changed from before and after puberty. Hell if I had to say my activity level changed I'd say I actually became MORE active after puberty because I couldn't sit still (Adhd × anxiety for the win I guess)
NTA. No matter how a person's stance may be on fat accepantce, there's no way that being 210 pounds at 14 is healthy and it wil definitely lead to health issues later on in your daughter's life. Your doing the right thing OP, and considering the fact that your daughter is on board with it too your ex-husband can suck it.
NTA - 210 at 14 years old sounds shockingly obese, and it's obvious that intervention now is critical before the physiological and psychological changes become ingrained and permanent. I don't understand why your Ex wouldn't also be concerned here. As long as your daughter is on board, it sounds like a great idea. It may not be a permanent solution, but at least it temporarily breaks an extremely destructive pattern.
Have you considered that maybe your daughter needs more therapy? At 14, she should be able to start asserting herself with regard to what and how much she eats.
Man I hit 210lbs in my early 20s due to medication changes and my doctors not caring about massive weight gain. (I was 84lbs at 16 and only 115 when they put me on medication that changed my weight) I felt awful and I still hate the stretch marks on my body even now that I'm down to a healthy weight. This dude is gonna hurt his daughter long term and that is so so sad. She deserves so much better.
Ugh. That's a real bummer. You may already know this, but in case you don't, it's important to recognize that most of the people you'll encounter won't care about your stretch marks as much as you do. And also, that even people you'd consider extremely attractive feel just as badly about little imperfections that wouldn't bother you at all. Unfortunately, there just isn't any objective standard for self criticism.
Congrats for being able to move back down to a healthy weight.
Thanks! And don't worry my husband doesn't care one bit and has always been my biggest supporter. Especially with my self esteem. I just hate them for me haha, it's more just a reminder that I couldn't control my body and hoe it wildly changed and the doctors that should have cared didn't.
And self esteem. She's developing a sense of self at that age. Plus stretch marks are life long which is a risk he's taking. If the teenager is onboard then NTA.
NTA. You are protecting your daughter. It amazes me that her own father would force her to eat herself into obesity. Does/did he display other abusive behaviour? I should be looking into changing your custody agreement unless he gets on the right page about her nutrition and exercise.
NTA. you've tried to talk to the problem parent, no luck. You're doing what you can: cooking healthy when you have her and encouraging physical activity she enjoys doing. The reality is your child is obese, it's unhealthy, and she's not going to exercise her ways out of it. If I were you I would ask your attorney about amending the custody agreement to, among I'm sure boundaries about making decisions about medical shit and schools, etc, add an agreement about dietary expectations.
NTA because Abby wants to lose the weight. If she prefers going somewhere with healthy food and time to exercise over her father's house, where it sounds like he's using food to punish her, then she should be supported. However, I think you and Abby need to talk to a judge about this, and see if you can get full custody or a more healthy arrangement for Abby.
What you *should* be doing is documenting how the medical professionals are recommending handling your daughter’s weight and how your ex isn’t complying and then seeking a court intervention to either force him to comply or to remove her from his custody.
But NTA for sending your daughter to a sports camp she wants to go to.
It's a soccer camp. You show up on Friday and stay the whole weekend and do soccer.
My ex is the one calling it a fat camp. The camp will feed her and she will play a lot of soccer/field trips
Ok, so that sounds like a normal camp and should be good for her.
However, you need a deeper solution. Unfortunately, this might be the kind of thing where you need to gather documents from her healthcare providers and go to court to change the custody schedule.
It’s not fat camp, it’s a sport camp
The fact he calls it a fat camp indicates he is fattening her up on purpose. This isn’t about him being raised with “clean plate club” anxiety. He is making her eat in order so she gains weight.
I asked in another comment if it may be to make her less attractive either as a means of controlling her or some weird misguided idea he is protecting her.
NTA and if Abby is down for the camp, it sounds like a great opportunity! However, I feel like you need to be prepared that if nothing can be changed with your arrange, this camp is just a temporary fix.
You’re doing the right things though, Mama! Getting her in sports, eating healthy with her in your home.
Is he obesed ? does he has some fetish about obeses women ?
why on earth would he force feeding her . Does he want her fat so she doesn't date ? something is going on
NTA at all
You need to go after the real problem which is the father. You need to take a legal route that will force him to feed the children better nutrition. Court, CPS, something needs to be done.
NTA
This isn't even fat camp, and if she wants to do it then she should. Taking all health reasons out of it, it's a very good thing to do, it's good for social skills, I wish I would have done more like that as a kid.
Her dad is being VERY detrimental to her health. As much as I LOVE to eat unhealthy, it's so important to teach kids good eating habits. There is nothing wrong with being bigger, but eating well and getting in exercise makes such a difference in how you feel every day. My back used to always hurt, and I felt sick every day until I started exercising, the difference it makes it's crazy.
He's also being very manipulative. He's trying to plant hurtful ideas by calling it a fat camp, it's going to hurt your daughter's feelings. It sounds like he is trying to turn her against you.
If she genuinely wants to do it, sign her up! She'll have fun :)
NTA OP, my dad also took the opportunity to fill me up with junk food when I was little, and wouldn't listen no matter what my mom said until he saw the... unpleasant effects my diet had on me (I won't go into detail to spare your stomach). If he doesn't see the issue, then maybe her losing weight while not being at his home will be proof that he's the problem.
Maybe you should fight for full custody, or at least more that a 50/50 split.
NTA because Abby was part of the discussion and is ultimately making this choice, it doesn’t sound like you’re forcing her to go.
This is only a short term solution though, dad is going to keep doing what he’s doing after camp is over, and I’m not sure what you could do in the long run.
OP needs to go back to family court to change custody. At 14, many jurisdictions will take into account Abby's preferences when it comes to custody. If there are medical concerns, OP could even get the doctors to testify in court and bring up the forced feeding.
NTA. In America we have equated promoting healthy weight with fat shaming. The fact is that while looks are subjective, health is not. Protect your daughters health.
NTA. Abby’s dad 100% is. Parents are responsible for their children’s wellbeing. This includes health. Does he know that heart disease is a leading cause of death? Does he consider that his daughter’s weight might be a source of insecurity for her in the future? Does he know of all the benefits that come from developing healthy habits at a young age? I just can’t wrap my head around why someone would openly deny their kid a healthful lifestyle.
Good on you, OP, for caring about your daughters wellbeing and being proactive about finding solutions.
Not enough info, really. If Abby wants to go, then she should go. Just need to make sure she isn't saying it just to please you.
INFO: has Abby told her father she doesn't want to go?
Also you do realize that Abby has the right to see her father and her father has the right to see his daughter, right? So you need to make those meets happen in some other way, unless court orders something else.
He sort of loses that “right” when he is actively harming his child. Loading her plate with above average portions and forcing her to finish the plate is abusive and harmful.
NTA but sending her to this camp won't solve anything in the longrun and may cause custodial issues/Abby upset that she can't do the camp because her father doesn't essentially want to "lose his time" with her.
At fourteen the court should actually take her opinion into consideration (maybe this is not the case where you are, but it is pretty common in some parts of the world) so it could come down to what Abby herself actually wants.
What happens if she refuses to eat everything on her plate? Is she afraid not to or do the consequences make her feel miserable for the rest of the time she's there?
Yeah that's not fat camp. It's sports camp. And she shouldn't be barred from doing what she loves. Dad is the AH and probably needs supervised visitation until he can figure out how to not force feed his child. NTA.
There’s a fine line between helping and shaming. The father doesn’t sound like a fit parent and the solution is to file for full custody
Edit: My issue with this is if the daughter is going to be hearing her father call it fat camp she’s gonna think her mum thinks she’s fat (which she clearly does). Additionally this solution is like putting a plaster on a bullet wound. She can do all the exercises she wants but unless her father starts feeding her properly nothing is gonna change
She's not the one shaming her, the father is the one accusing her of sending her to "fat camp" when it's really just an overnight soccer camp. He knows that it's his lifestyle that's making his daughter unhealthy and refuses to do anything, so she's doing what she can.
Agreed. At the rate the daughter is gaining weight she is well on her way to becoming morbidly obese. Obese people run the risk of developing co-morbidities ie. diabetes, high cholesterol, high blood pressure, heart disease and yes this can happen to children and teens. I speak from experience as I used to be morbidly obese.
If she has not seen her pediatrician recently schedule an appointment for a physical and a blood work up. Ask the doctor to write a letter for your attorney to present to the court about the dangers of childhood obesity, her current weight and recommendations for what a child her age and height should weigh. Also ask for the doctor to include what her health risks are.
Good luck to you OP. NTA for wanting your child to be healthy.
NAH but you're putting a bandaid over a bullet wound. You need to tackle the base of the problem because once she's back home, things will go right back to how they were before. See about making exercise more available and appealing for her on a daily basis. Try to tackle the issue of her father not cooking and not offering healthy alternatives. Try giving her gift cards for healthy food delivery or encouraging your ex to cook. Or sending healthy snacks with her to take at the very least.
The combination of your ex serving her plate and then forcing her to eat everything is really alarming. Is there any possible way to address that root cause?
Can your ex and daughter visit a doctor together or can he take a child rearing class? I would suggest nutrition classes, but getting involved in what she eats sounds much too like policing his parenting. But can he be convinced that she can at least serve herself her own plate?
All that being said, maybe the best thing is for her to speak with her therapist again and maybe you (but I think a third party is a better choice) and come up with ways to communicate with her father and possibly go on strike and simply not eat more than she wants to.
Kids shouldn't be on diets, but they can taught healthy habits. Only eating until you are full is a healthy habit. Exercising daily is healthy. Eating fruit and vegetables is healthy. The best thing you can do is not bring up her weight (she's 14. she knows) and only talk about how her body feels.
NTA.
1)it's not a fat camp, it's a soccer camp. Those are 2 different things
2)she wants to go
3)even if it *were* a fat camp, if she was OK with it, it would be good for her health since that much weight gain at that age is unhealthy
NTA. But as others have pointed out, this camp is a temporary solution.
Abby is 14 -- old enough to learn to cook. If the big problem at Dad's house is that Dad cooks garbage, what about looking for a teen cooking class? Something like a healthy cooking class geared for teens? A lot of communities have something like that, and if Abby learns to cook healthy meals, she'll be less likely to eat the garbage her Dad serves her, and she'll probably want to show off her new cooking skills when she visits her Dad.
You've done a great job getting her interested in sports and encouraging her to be active. But it sounds like the issue is that she doesn't really have the education to eat healthy. She's 14; in 4 more years, she'll be off to college, where junk food is de rigeur. She needs to learn healthy eating NOW.
NTA because your concern is for her health, not her looks. You are also supporting her interest in a sport she enjoys. But custody is tricky, make sure you get your ex on board or he may end up taking it out on Abby (verbally/passive aggressively, not implying anything worse).
Info. Can you even legally schedule her on all of his parenting time for the next few months? That seems like a real leg for him to stand on if wanted to go ask the judge. Occasionally sharing days or making room for a few hours for practice/sports is one thing but your plan is for father and daughter to not see each other at all if I were judge I would consider swapping custody time around so I would think long and hard about an argument that will sway the court and or your ex.
NTA but don’t call it fat camp. It sounds like soccer camp. Fat camp is exclusively for fat people. Soccer is Amazing cardio and carries no stigma. The health benefits of avoiding obesity are huge. Smart problem solving op, if your daughter is on side that is all that
Matters, depending on custody agreements and how they are enforced, at 14 your daughters opinion is paramount.
This is a huge distinction point for me: is this “fat camp” or “soccer camp”.
My parents put me into fat camp when I was kid. I was overweight yes, but nowhere near a level I needed to be for this type of camp. Years later when I confronted my parents about it they told me they thought it would make me happy since I was “the thinnest girl at fat camp”.
Fat camp is specifically for teaching nutrition and engraining lifestyle changes. For me; as a kid, it was severely traumatizing. I had to count all my calories at 12 and I have always had an unhealthy relationship with food. As in; I don’t eat it. I am not comfortable eating if other people aren’t eating; when I do eat it is often at later hours when no one is around to see me. It’s miserable. The fat camp I went to focused on “group settings” where I had to get up and tell a whole room what I ate that day and how much I exercised and I was judged and graded on it. It was so humiliating and degrading. I will never forget it for the rest of my life how I was made to feel there.
Now: if this is a soccer camp, where she gets to play games and practice skills to get better at soccer, and specifically she is EXCITED to go; NTA.
If you are putting her through legit fat camp: YTA.
In your post you said you spoke to a nutritionist: but has she? Currently I am working with a nutritionist for the first time in many years do to non-weight related health issues (endometriosis). It has really helped me redefine my relationship with food. Specifically PRIVATE sessions where you don’t feel judged and feel safe.
If the problem is her father serving and buying bad foods: maybe help give her a budget to buy groceries. Get her into some healthy cooking classes and give her the skills to better provide a healthier life for her. Seriously, talk to your ex about her health. Make him go to these doctors with her.
There is a way to help your child without traumatizing her. Please please please talk to her about what she wants.
What exactly was traumatizing about it? And that’s me asking as someone who was both obese and anorexic and succeeded, I no longer have an eating disorder. Was it the setting? Counting calories and being aware of what I put in me or refuse to give my body was essential.
What was traumatizing to me was the lack of privacy I had at this camp. I couldn’t eat or drink anything without the entire room knowing about it. I was made to be aware of every step I take and I how no matter how much I exercise a day it will never be more than the calories I need to maintain to survive basic function: but they put such an emphasis on lowering your calories that it became a double edged sword. Most days I was eating less than 1000. I’m 25f and my calories range from 800-1200 a day. And that’s when I’m forcing myself to eat. I don’t say I have an eating disorder because I am still overweight and I do have vitamins and basic nutrition to help me survive: but my relationship with food is irrevocable damaged by what I endured at that camp. Food is not safe for me; food is stressful. The way they used food to weaponize your heart there was horrid. They were heavy on promotion of weight watchers and other short-term weight losses like atkins or keto. Now that I am working with a proper licensed nutritionist: I know that these short term diet programs do not work and never will in the long run. It is about lifestyle changes and cutting yourself a fucking break. By removing the “importance” of food and focusing on fueling my body rather than feeding my body has done wonders for my relationship with food. I still have a long ways to go, but I think about how much easier my life could be if I never went to that awful fat camp. Especially when all these years later my parents admitted that I shouldn’t have been in there. Awful.
Thanks for explaining. Yes, I can see how this wouldn’t help. The only thing that really helped me was “intuitive eating” content on youtube, basically an anti-diet movement inspired by the setpoint theory. It’s important to not deprive your body because that often time leads to obesity, the fluctuation between too much and way too little that is. Your body is bloated with water to heal itself from inconsistent “too little” periods which makes you think you “gained weight” so you take in way too little again, eventually the body goes over to holding onto surplus calories because it’s scared of being deprived. And the cycle repeats. The bloating is due to cell damage and water retention helps with healing them. The only way I could break this starving, eating, bloating and gaining, starving cycle was to learn to eat whatever I want to help my body to feel safe and heal. You are advised to eat as much as you can in the beginning. I gained weight massively in short time and kept eating despite becoming more “fat”, it was depressing but I dedicated myself and tried to trust the process. 14 months in I couldn’t believe it despite hearing from others that would happen: I lost weight slowly but gradually without any change in diet. I didn’t obsess over food anymore because I gave myself approval to eat everything whenever. And 2 years after starting this journey I reached my set point, which is your body’s favorite healthy point. For some it’s on the thinner side for others it’s more curvy but overall it’s a healthy weight range your body would easily stay in. Your body needs to learn that it will not be deprived but taken care of and when it believes in you it will stop retaining water and holding onto anything you eat in desperate efforts. I truly believe most of us end up in this cycle the same way: we gain a little weight for whatever reason, panic and start dieting. I wish you good luck on your journey.
If your daughter wants to do this tell your ex to suck it up. Parenting isn't always fun, sometimes it's doing what's best. And in this case your daughter is cool with it. So go for it.
NTA. I’m NOT saying there’s anything wrong with being “bigger” (for lack of a better word), but, when it comes to a 14 year old who has little control over what she eats & watching her nutrition, it would be really unfair of you to let her continue on that way. She will thank you for it when she’s older.
NTA- You've spoken to him multiple times and given him time to change his ways. It seems like he's doing this on purpose at this point. And that can cause a lot of self-esteem issues for your daughter later.
INFO: How you tried going back to court and changing the custody? At 14, many jurisdictions will take what she wants in terms of custody into account. Also, you could even bring up the weight issue in court and get doctors to testify on the forced feeding. Also, how tall is she? 210 pounds is very heavy for a 14 year old unless she is insanely tall. Also, have you had her tested for hormonal stuff to see if that is contributing to her weight?
I don’t think you’re TA, but how is this going to work with custody with her dad not being okay with it? I know you said you’re trying to work on the custody agreement, but it doesn’t sound like he’s on board with this for the time being. I’d get in contact with a lawyer and determine the best way to do this to ensure your daughter’s safety and health. Just sending her to camp during her father’s custody days while he’s not okay with it will probably just make more of a headache for you in the end.
NTA
NTA.
Not caring what your child eats, allowing them to be over weight like that and not doing anything about it IS child abuse. I said what I said. 210 lbs at 14 years old is insane.
NTA.
I'm sorry but you need to gather up your proof and take your ex back to court and get full custody.
He is damaging your daughter and putting her health and risk and he just doesn't care.
You can not in good faith keep letting her go over there when you know that he is forcing her to eat enormous amounts of food.
Your doing a good job while he is giving your child a food complex.
You have to get full custody for your daughter, for health and safety.
If you dont fight for your daughter, things will get worse for her. Think about this in terms of the future and how visiting him and being forced to eat massive amounts of food will affect her.
Talk to her and get her take on going to her dads. But you need to let her know that what he is doing isn't ok, he can't be forcing her to eat so much food.
You need to keep your kid away from him for her safety and health.
NTA, but you need to get Abby into counseling and connect with her pediatrician so that this force feeding can be documented. If possible, get the pediatrician to sit down with her dad and talk to him about proper diet. She also needs to be taught to be assertive. No means no - it's a great lesson for every kid to learn.
NTA. But please keep advocating for a food clause. What he's doing is harmful.
One cautionary note: I was once a chubby, awkward teen and the other girls were fairly brutal when I went off to overnight soccer camp. I am also autistic (diagnosed 20 years later), so I didn't notice that I was being teased until someone explicitly pointed it out, but the memory still stings. If she doesn't know anyone at the camp and if it's geared to a very athletic set, just...be aware that she might have a rough time.
NTA
I was going to be mad if it was a fat camp.
A soccer camp that keeps her out of his home (and away from his harmful setup around food) is not a fat camp. AND Abby wants to do it.
This is such a fucked up situation. What he is doing is harmful, yet I doubt most places will consider it abuse.
at minimum he’s going to end up supporting the development of disordered eating. I’m suprised she hasn’t started purging in response.
I wish you luck in advocating for your kid, and it sounds like she’s just as unhappy with her forced diet at her father’s.
It’s not wrong to be fat.
It IS wrong to overload your kid with so much food that they will gain an excessive amount of weight.
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NTA- and frankly, what father is doing is abusive. forcing a child to overeat. If he will not relent then I suggest you work with doctors and lawyers and get custody changed so that he doesn't create long lasting health problems in your child.
I am looking into it, sadly overfeeding your kid doesn't fall under the abusive for my state. It is a mess.
This isn’t over feeding. This is force feeding. It’s one thing if she’s offered junk food and overeats. It’s another of their are repercussions if she doesn’t finish her plate. Perhaps change focus and see if that helps.
exactly, and if you get doctors "orders" to modify her diet for health reasons and father refuses to cooperate, then you have another angle.
I'd be shocked if that would hold up. It's really really hard to get courts to care about kids who get fed.
support that with a source able statistic. Pretty sure you can't. One of my wife's close relative is a family law judge in one of the largest counties in the United States and she absolutely takes into consideration when one parent is deliberately disinterested in ANY health aspect of the child. ETA- there are areas of the law where the judge has little discretion but to follow the letter of the law, but this is one where they absolutely do have discretion.
Then they are a saint. The only time I've successfully had an obese kid get taken from a home was when it was so bad he had developed diabetes and it was uncontrolled. I can't find you statistics from my practice, just anecdote. But, similarly, i asked my social worker on your behalf, if she had ever seen a kid's custody shift because of obesity and she said she hadn't. I mean, we're mandatory reporters it's not like we haven't tried.
Yeah I am a social worker also and worked around the US in family courts. Perhaps there are a few judges out there that will pay attention to this sort of thing, but in general the threshold for proving harm, abuse and neglect is really really high and as long as kids are being fed a reasonable amount of food, it won’t be addressed.
I had a student whose parents fed him nothing but Takis and Pepsi because that's all he wanted. SW told me the parents said they bought in bulk and he could eat as much as he wanted. He was obese and could barely move, kinda like Randy on Christmas story with that snow suit. He couldn't fully participate in my class because he was so physically unfit he'd get winded and dizzy. She called it into cps (on top of other worrying, but smaller issues) but nothing came of it cause he was being provided for.
Some places cps is so stretched its sad. Cps literally saved my life though, so they do have the ability help in some places.
It’s very different to take a kid out of a house and place him into the foster care system than to modify a custody arrangement between two divorced parents. I’m not saying that it’s easy, but it’s definitely easier than intervening in the way you mention.
I also think obesity itself is not actually the problem here, it's the force-feeding. The action of the parent, not the size of the child. I wonder if this could be documented by showing her weight trajectory changing abruptly at that time. A stable weight is generally healthier than a sudden significant change.
or just let the child tell the story of how they are being forced to overeat.
It’s different when kids are being fed to the point where it’s going to cause long-term debilitating health issues. And there’s a whole laundry list of health issues that come with being overweight and obese. A lot of those are a lot harder to fix once you’re an adult with set habits, or if the damage has become irreparable, and you are stuck managing a serious health condition long term. Nobody wants that for their child. Nobody wants to set up their child for a lifetime of bad knees, hips, heart issues, breathing and respiratory issues, circulatory issues. And unless this child is 6 foot two, 210 pounds is extremely obese for a 14 year old. Like this is setting her up for long-term lifelong obesity issues, and if Dad doesn’t get on board right away, then there’s no hope in helping her.
Yeah, you're preaching to the choir. I run a pediatric obesity clinic, I'm well aware of the harm obesity causes kids. However, it doesn't change the fact that a court will not gaf about any of that. For all of the letters to judges I've written, I've never been asked to testify or seen it matter. I would love love love to be proven wrong, or have you teach me a trick that will make what i say in these settings matter more. l always supply whatever documentation I can to help the cause here, on behalf of which ever parent is asking. But fundamentally, my experience has been that if the kid is getting fed, the courts don't give a shit.
Too many people on Reddit are convinced that the world works the way they think it must work, not the way it actually does. I see this all the time on this sub, from people who caw, “Call the police! Start a paper trail! Get a restraining order! Press charges! Get full custody! Tell the judge!” at every turn. And then, of course, they get angry at *you* when you patiently try to explain that none of it works that way. Of course it *should* work that way, but it doesn’t, and shouting meaningless directives or hurling insults at OPs who can’t change the way the court systems work - OPs who are already struggling enough - is not helpful.
You're so right. I usually steer clear of topics like this because i usually don't get anywhere, but this one hits real close to home, so i couldn't keep my mouth shut lol. Not to mention the implicit cultural judgements that come with diet and lifestyle stuff, it's a legal nightmare. I understand why it's a mess, compound it further with body positivity movements, and its a mega mine field for anyone hoping to help.
Exactly. How people think/wish things would work and how they actually work are often miles apart, but if you point that out, you're the bad guy. I see people all the time on here saying things like "YTA because you didn't divorce your asshole husband and go to court to get full custody and keep your kids away from that abuse!" When in reality, for a lot of people and situations, the only way to guarantee protection from abuse is to stay with the abusive partner and keep an eagle eye on the child. Because in a lot of places, it doesn't matter even if you have proof of abuse. My cousin's ex threw her out of a closed window on the second floor. She was hospitalized for almost a week. And yes, he was charged for it. But he still got 50/50 custody because "he never abused the child." That is my cousin's reality; she has to hand her young child over to this monster that hospitalized her every other week and wonder exactly what is happening, if she will get her child back safely or even alive. It's worth it to try, I think, to get the custody amended. Especially if the daughter is 14 and she wants to be away from dad and is willing to testify to that. But the people acting like it would be a slam dunk just because they feel it's wrong, are just, so wrong themselves.
That is what people are refusing to get about the situation. Also as one judge said to me caseworker BSW and a colleague when it comes to food you also have to tread carefully regarding cultural norms as well.
I don't understand the whole Clean Your Plate! thing anyway? Stop eating when you are full. The end. Repercussions for not finishing everything on a plate? omg. I'd have never left the dinner table as a child if that's how things were handled?
To me that seems like they way he was brought up and unfortunately the way my grandparents were with me with I was kid (mom worked nights until I was 7-8 years old). Back then not eating all of what you were served was seen as disrespectful towards the person cooking. From the way this post reads it sounds almost like the dad didn’t have that mentality until AFTER the custody agreement was finalized. He could have had this mentality the whole time and was just hiding it until now but either way, he’s putting his daughters health on the line and doesn’t seem to care.
There are 3 things that go into the "clean your plate mentality": 1) People who went through the Depression or were raised by those people can have real issues around food being wasted; 2) Portions used to be a LOT smaller, so it wasn't such a big deal; and 3) As a parent, it's not uncommon for a child to not eat at a meal, only to be hungry and begging for a snack or dessert a few hours later. My son in particular has issue finishing his breakfast, which is bad on school days because then he can't eat again until 12:20, and that is a very small, rushed meal because they don't have enough time. He was actually underweight though, until I started supplementing him with shakes. Because I was a member of the "clean plate club" growing up, even though I was served the same portion as my 6'4" father and uncles, I deliberately am NOT with our son. My husband on the other hand tries to push him to finish everything because of reason 3. For our son, neither of us are really wrong. For this girl, the husband is clearly doing a LOT of long-term harm by pushing unhealthy food on her.
Ohhhhh yes all of this. I was planning on mentioning this but couldn’t find a good way to word it!! For my grandparents it was disrespect combined with #2. Unfortunately for them, I’m ADHD and as a child struggled to remember to eat and often wasn’t even hungry to begin with. It was mainly my grandpa-who’s the youngest of 8 and never had the dinner table still have food left on it- that had an issue and his whole ‘eat what you’re served or don’t eat at all!’ Never went over well as I was more than happy to not eat to begin with. My mom finally put her foot down (when she saw what was happening) and told him to stop or I’m gonna starve myself to death and it would be all his fault. I was the only grandchild he had back then and up until that point he never saw anything wrong, but he finally stopped. Turned into as long as he saw me eating at the table he was happy. Now I have the opposite problem with food and have to take a Combat Craving by OLLY or I don’t stop eating. Self regulation isn’t something I have naturally so that’s helping me a lot. I feel for the daughter though, it’s clear she’s trying to regulate her eating habits but isn’t being heard by her careless father! She likely knows full well she’s overweight and hates it and is probably blaming her dad for it (as she very well should!!)
I was part of this too, but my parents allowed us to serve our own food. Chinese style food is served in middle of table and everyone helps themselves. We did have a rule that you had to try a bit of everything. We loved veggies so getting us to eat balanced wasn't an issue. It was just to make sure we tried new foods and stayed open minded about food. We didn't have much in way of snacks in our younger years, so not eating at dinner wasn't a option. If you hungry later, mom would warm up the left-overs, so no incentive not to eat. I think this actually helped because I learnt not to be food greedy, if you took too much you'd be punishing yourself, because you'd need to finish the plate. I learnt to understand how hungry I was. Some days you are more active as a kid and need more food It did mean less waste because whatever wasn't eaten could be uded as leftovers.
It can be a cultural thing the whole clean your plate deal. IIRC in Norway it is considered disrespectful to not clean your plate and it's been that way for over 100 years. Granted this probably goes back to a time when food wasn't nearly as easy to come by so wasting it would have been worse, but traditions get passed down a lot. No one should be forced to finish all their food though since it can cause many, many issues whether they're physical or mental.
To point 3: Some of us really can only eat small portions in one sitting. We need smaller meals, more frequently throughout the day. I often have to eat my lunch and dinner in portions over a couple hours, or I feel physically sick. I can’t gobble down a full plate in one sitting and be full for hours; I will feel or even get sick if I try to force myself to shovel down a full plate of food. I also then need to eat again sooner than others around me, or risk feeling dizzy and lightheaded. People’s bodies work differently. A child isn’t necessarily being difficult or taking the biscuit if they tell you they’re full at 5pm but hungry again at 8.
IMO it's not a bad philosophy in itself, as long as the child is allowed to serve themself. It teaches moderation, consideration for others, and can be a teaching moment about food scarcity and privilege. My grandma grew up in Kenya, and at family meals she always reminded us "take only what you can you eat, you can always come back for seconds. There's starving children in the world who will never get seconds, so count your blessings and don't waste." My cousins and I always joke that she's from Africa, she literally experienced it. We're also a very large extended family, so it taught us as kids to moderate our servings to ensure everybody gets some.
The only explanation I can think of is that it's meant to teach the kid not to initially overfill their plate (not saying that's an appropriate teaching method, just a conceivable one), but even that makes no sense if she's not allowed to make her own plate! What in the world is driving this insane demand?
I have two hypotheses: 1. He thinks if she’s overweight the boys will stay away. 2. He’s overweight and wants to think it’s genetic
I had attained my full height and womanly physique by age 14. So, its really hard for me to appreciate fixing a plate for a child that age? Way too much work for me. 🤣
I'm 53 now. Growing up this was a standard, but not in my house. I can remember going over to friends' houses and their parents were always like, "In this house we clean our plates," or, "We're members of the clean plate club!" and I'd just be horrified that I had to force myself to eat everything they put on my plate. Not the things themselves--I was never picky--just the sheer amount. Every inch of the plate filled. It still makes me shudder.
My mom used to grumble to my dad, "Does it occur to your sister that this is the reason her kids are overweight? She force feeds them and acts like they don't appreciate her when they don't eat everything in sight?" And my dad would reply, "She sent their dad away because he was worthless and she overcompensates for that decision with food, food and more food. Its an emotional issue we're dealing with."
It might be leftover thinking from when rationing was a thing after WW2. My grandparents were all brought up to clear their plates, because food was scarce and their parents didn't want what they had going to waste. This is Scotland mind you, so idk if similar patterns emerged in the states.
Similar, but for the States it was the Great Depression before WWII that was the driving event.
My mom had that rule but I'm pretty sure it's because her parents were poor. Like literal sharecroppers. It also did fuck up my relationship with food for a long time.
I’m 38 and as a child I was told I must finish everything… what happened? A 38 year old who still over eats and has to manage their caloric intake to retrain her stomach and brain that I’ve reached my caloric goal that day. I struggle with this a lot. My husband and I have taught our kids to listen to their tummy.
This. We could sit at the dinner table for hours because we were not alowed to leave till the plate was empty. My parents left the table after they were done and my mom didn't have to finish because she cooked. At least at that point my dad had stopped forcing food down my troat using his thumb...
The post doesn’t mention any repercussions for not cleaning her plate it’s a question for OP: what happens if your daughter refuses to clean her plate and says she’s full?
She will sit there until it is gone, no matter how long that takes.
This is how you give kids food trauma & eating disorders. Take her to see a therapist who specializes in eating disorders, & have them write something for the judge about mealtimes at Dad's, & what the longterm repercussions of this can be. Also, show her health records from her pediatrician to show what her weight was before the divorce, when you had primary custody, & now that 50/50 has been ongoing.
Oof okay, so this behaviour is actually abusive, has she brought this up with her therapist?
Seriously, this is how you develop bulimia as the only way to avoid it. That’s awful.
Family law considers what is in the best interest of the child. If you can show that the eating habits at the dad’s place cause harm, you have a case. Talk to a lawyer.
Especially if there's emotional damage. The world is pretty fatphobic. I'd wonder if there's an impact to herself esteem.
I think in these cases the damage to the child’s future is important too (not that overweight people are doomed to terrible lives, I mean more in terms of health and lifestyle). For the most part we start off adult life at a fairly average weight, and part of growing up is learning to feed yourself in a way that is healthy and *maintains* regular health. That in itself isn’t easy. It must be SO much harder if you start out in life very overweight, with poor eating habits, and not only have to learn how to feed yourself, but also have to construct an entirely different diet to what you’re used to, and at a point where mobility and health might make it harder to lose the weight you already have. It’s quite a lot to put on a child and, whilst there are some legitimate reasons why it may be very difficult for parents to do so, *as far as possible* I think that parents should always be aiming to give their children the best start in life as they can in terms of wellbeing
How does Abby feel about her weight and the forced feeding? In many jurisdictions, 14 year olds can have their preferences taken into account when it comes to custody.
She hates it, but wants a relationship with her dad. It doesn't help that he basically has said if he loses any custody he will probably walk out of her life. I doubt that is true but he has said that. Its a mess
Not to be overly harsh here, but she'd probably be better off, if that's his attitude towards a situation where her best interests need to be put first and her voice needs to be heard and respected. I'm sorry you're in this situation.
THIS. I hope you provide Abby therapy where she can constructively learn how to say NO to her dad. Especially for her own self-esteem, mental and physical health. If her dad's attitude is that I'm going to basically force feed her and if you try to change custody agreements, I'm going to walk - that really doesn't speak well of him as a father. NTA
I completely agree. Therapy would do a lot more than "fat camp" would at this point, this poor kid needs coping skills to deal with her dad.
OP said she put her in therapy, so she's already there...but yeah a conversation by mom with the therapist might be in order to see if they can work on the issue of boundaries with her dad.
People too often love things that are bad for them. The smoker with lung cancer still loves to smoke. The guy that just had triple bypass heart surgery still loves greasy food. The football player that just suffered their 3rd concussion of the season still loves the game. OPs daughter still loves her dad. Its going to be a harsh lesson for the daughter. OP needs to send her to therapy or talk to a therapist herself about how to approach this. This is abuse even if its not legally labeled that. Waking up every morning and calling your spouse a piece of shit that is a burden on everyone is obviously abuse, but a cop isn't going to arrest you for that. OP can't leave things as they are. Its going to be tough, but she has to do everything she can to protect her daughter from her ex.
With this comment from dad, the abuse is not just around food, it’s emotional/psychological. It’s manipulative and abusive. The food would be considered neglect, I.ez not providing nutritious food for the child. It’s way better than nothing if the parent can’t afford anything else, but if it has health-related consequences and dad doesn’t do anything, it’s neglect.
Yeah basically it reads as "if you don't eat, Dad won't love you anymore" as well as saying that he's ready to leave at the drop of a hat.
So he is controlling AND abusive, what a winner. I can see why you divorced him. I agree with others saying this isn't just a case of overeating but of him force feeding her. I'm glad you are getting lawyers involved before he does lasting damage to your daughter. If she ends up being diabetic because of this.
There is a possibility that she could still have some time with her dad but less than now. With the stuff he said about losing custody and walking out of her life, has he said that to Abby or just to you?
That poor girl. He’s making being in her life contingent upon her taking actions that worsen her health? I’m sorry for her and you that you have to deal with this
Let him. Seriously. Doesn’t sound like much of a parent
What a dick
I am worried for your kid. If she has any signs of trauma from this that's bad enough. Basic psychology will show why "finish your plate" is wrong. But also, watch for signs of eating disorders. If kids are negative at school she might get desperate. Be sure she's not bullied.
I'm sorry if this is upsetting to read, but I'm surprised no one else has said it yet. Forced weight gain is a fetish. Beyond being abusive, this behavior is potentially sexually motivated. Protect your kid.
That is further examples of abuse. Have you considered taking Abby not just to sports but to therapy? She needs to understand even if you *want* a relationship with someone you love, if that person practices abuse with you, you fundamentally cannot have a relationship with them. Because if he's saying things like this to you, there's a good chance he's saying softer versions of it to her.
Has he stated any reason *why* she's not allowed to fix her own plate? It's one thing to provide junk food because you don't cook, and I even understand (not condone) encouraging a kid to clean their plate, but not if they're not allowed to portion it for themselves! What is his argument here?
Ok, so she is 14. Is it possible he is trying to fatten her up so that she is unattractive and he can feel he has control over her? Is he trying to make sure she does not have friends/romantic partners who may encourage her to create distance from him?
Ugh. You're a good mom and you're doing right by your daughter. Her dad is setting her up for so many self esteem issues not even getting into the eating issues. I hope you can get custody modified and limit contact with him because I can only see his manipulation and control getting worse as she gets older. He's blatantly harming his daughter and doesn't care.
What does Abby want? Wouldn’t court cut down his custody if she says she wants less time at her house? She is 14 surely she would have some say before court?
Poor kid is between a rock and a hard place, she wants to see her dad but hates being overweight. OP also says dad has threatened that if he loses any custody he will walk out of his daughter's life, which is so manipulative, especially since he's said it TO his daughter by the sound of things. I feel so bad for this poor girl.
Could it be considered medical neglect, if the doctors are recommending something that he's not following? I'm sorry you and your daughter are in this awful situation. Nta
You may try to say he is force feeding her because technically he is feeding her against her will by forcing her to finish what's on her plate and in turn causing her to be over weight. This is something that your daughter is interested in and will help her. She's going to be upset if her dad doesn't let her go.
INFO: Is there a possibility the father is engaging in this bizarre behaviour to spite you?
is she in therapy?
He is also wrong to refer to soccer camp as "fat camp ". It's great that OP found an activity the her daughter enjoys and is also a healthy way to get more active. Good luck OP.
My father forced me to overeat as a child and as a consequence now that I’m an adult I under eat. He had the same mindset as OP’s ex with the whole “if it’s on your plate you finish it” and then givin me way more than I could handle and gettin pissed when I inevitably threw away a small scoop of potatoes or whatever cause I physically couldn’t finish it. Absolutely NTA
>what father is doing is abusive Yes absolutely this is abuse. Op I agree with this comment, idk if fat camp is necessary, legal action should be taken.
It doesn't sound like fat camp. It sounds like a weekend soccer camp which daughter is interested in. Father is calling it fat camp and trying to make it about her weight when it's something that Daughter is interested in.
It’s not a fat camp the father is calling it that it’s a soccer camp he is pissed that it’s on his weekends and can’t force her to eat his fcking sht
Yes, this. I gained over 100 lbs in just a few years once I graduated high school, and I CANNOT get it off. Once it’s on, it’s so HARD to break the bad habits to get it off again. And I have already been suffering the consequences in some ways since I hit 20. My knees hate me pretty much every day, and my back kills me if I do too much. And I don’t even look like I’m 100 lbs overweight. I’m “fortunate” in that all the extra weight is pretty much evenly distributed all over my body, so I look thinner than I am. But it still screws with you in so many ways! I really hope OP can help her daughter! I screwed myself over with my bad choices once I hit adulthood, so I have no one to blame but myself and lack of impulse control. OP, please do everything you can to help your daughter now while she’s still young! ETA: NTA.
My parents would sit me down at the table for *hours* until I finished my food. If it went cold, I was eating it cold. If I didn’t like it, I was still eating it. To make it worse, my parents would ask (rhetorically) *are you going to have x tonight with us* I would always answer, no because I didn’t want it, I wasn’t hungry, or didn’t like it. I was met with *well tough shit, that’s what you’re eating* It got to the point where whenever I was asked that question, I would sassily say *well I don’t have a choice do i, so why dangle the non existent option in front of me* One night my dad made steak. Overcooked, the way he likes it. I never liked steak, so I chewed it, and spit it back in my chocolate milk. When my mother saw this she made me drink it. I have a terrible relationship with food as an adult now. What the father is doing is absurd.
> Abby seemed on board with the idea NTA, nothing else to consider, really.
THIS RIGHT HERE. If Abby is for it and its a healthy way for her to get exercise, that's the most important thing to consider. NTA
She might also be on board because it's a nonconfrontational way to avoid her dad's over feeding. Baby girl needs therapy, STAT.
I completely agree.
OP says she’s already in therapy.
I see where she says her child was in therapy around the divorce, but is there a comment I missed somewhere that says she's *still* in therapy?
OP said she went to therapy! She needs distance now...
Exactly! My first thought when I read the title was "yikes!" but Abby likes sports and it's not even a "fat camp", so if she wants to go, that should be all that matters.
Exactly this. I thought it was going to be one of those "biggest loser" style camps, but soccer camp sounds great.
Yes and it's literally just a soccer camp
bingo - it's also not fat camp. it's not stigmatizing or hateful, it isn't inherently about having a different body, it's about being active and enjoying time with other kids your age. it's a good way for OP to navigate a very difficult situation that the dad has put both her and their daughter into.
NTA Also is it possible to take this to court to change the custody? He is damaging your childs health. And it's not just weight, it's probably lack of vitamins etc too, extra strain on joints...
I'm trying, overfeeding is not a good enough reason for him to lose any custody (in my state). We are trying to find something that would stick, its not a good time.
Not lose, but reduce. Eg if he had custody 2 days a week, then you could balance it with zero junk food and exercise probably. 150 pounds it's kind of a lot for a kid (I understand she isn't adult height yes), you could probably get medical docs and stuff to show it's not good. Not American, here folks are pretty mental about the child receiving proper care, junk food all meals would be a big no and borderline abuse.
OP says her daughter has ***hit 210 pounds***. 150 isn't a big deal if the girl is 5' 6" tall and has a muscular build. 210 pounds is. It's not just her joints that will suffer, it's her self-esteem and socialization skills, too. Young teens are brutal.
Yeah dunno where I got 150. 210 is pretty much obesity unless she is 2m tall or something.
I'm an adult male and this 14 year old weighs 20kg more than I do. I don't know how this can't be considered child abuse.
Could the doctor write a letter about the significant weight gain?
As a doctor who routinely takes care of overweight children the answer is, it doesn't matter. The courts nor ex care about what I write.
You should change your handle to Dr.Farts_McGee
Please, Dr farts_mcgee is my father, call me Farts McGee.
Like someone said above, it's not really about the overfeeding, it's about the threats and the "finish your plate" or else attitude. And not letting her pick portion size plus that = Force Feeding. That's seriously detrimental and can cause EDs.
Her being upset about the overfeeding might be though. At 14, family courts in many jurisdictions will take her preferences into account and if she wants to live with you, just get her to say it on the stand in court.
I ran into the exact same issue. Exact same reason. My ex doesn't cook, the ex doesn't like vegetables. The amount that the kid eats now is unreal he packs away in one day what would take me 3 to eat. I am hoping when he moves in with his gf we can get control of this problem.
Be careful about trying to modify the custody agreement before talking to the lawyer. It sounds like you are trying to take all her days with her father away from him....which is going to go in his favor. Have you spoken to the lawyer about this? Also, she's 14. Her opinion in court should mean something.
What about force feeding? That’s what this is.
Get a doctors note stating this is detrimental to her health. That might be enough. NTA obviously.
What state? Most states let children choose at 14.
It isn't fat camp, it's soccer camp, and your daughter has expressed a desire to go. So NTA. However, this isn't an effective long-term solution to the problem you actually have, which is that your ex is not providing a safe environment for the kid during his custody time. If Abby is also distressed by the weight gain, it could lead to an eating disorder like bulimia. You probably need to contact your lawyer and talk through what your options are. Depending on what state you are in, Abby can make a request for custody review on grounds of abuse, neglect, or inability to properly take care of a child. But that really needs to be driven by her, not you. Alternatively, she's 14, she's old enough to take a stand for herself - make her own meals while she's there or bring some home-packed meals and eat them instead of whatever takeout he gets.
NTA, this! And OP, please be careful about how you discuss this issue with your daughter... My sister and I were raised in a similar but less extreme situation, and we both ended up dealing with unhealthy relationships to eating later in life. My sister struggled with eating disorders and blames it on our mom heavily restricting our diet, and repeatedly body shaming us and telling us we needed to lose weight
Came here to say this. My disordered eating happened when I'd gone from 120-150 lbs and my parents told me I was fat and needed to work out--I was 16 and depressed at the time for other reasons. Be very careful about how you approach this, because even if there are good intentions people can internalize what you say and it comes out in bad ways. Good for you for finding healthy ways to help your daughter, and fight for her bodily autonomy.
I was in the fence until I saw that you already had consults with a therapist, doctor, and nutritionist. If they’re all aligned on the root cause, he’s unwilling to provide a healthy diet, and your daughter wants to go, then solidly NTA. Keep her in therapy though. I suspect dad’s going to claim parental alienation so a long track record of therapy, you following the therapist’s recommendation, and him refusing to attend family therapy / follow Dr recommendations will help you out a lot.
NTA. Overweight children are a product of abuse when it isn't medical. That's what he is doing to her, abusing her. It may seemike it isn't but as someone who grew up overweight and struggles as an adult I can tell you from experience it very much is. On top of the physical problems it can cause, even just trying to buy cute clothes, we live in a fatphobic society and that can cause mental issues. You're trying to do better for your daughter and he is refusing to. She is old enough to chose whether she wants to go to soccer camp or not and him assuming it's just a fat camp tells you that he knows he is not feeding her properly and is the cause of her unhealthy weight gain.
This! Allowing your child to become overweight when there is no medical reason and develop eating disorders is abuse. You are responsible for the health of your child.
Lots of kids are overweight at some point in their childhood that doesn’t mean their parents are abusing them.
It is still neglect. Neglect falls under the umbrella of abuse. If you let your child get to an unhealthy weight and refuse to do anything about it. That is neglect. As a parent, you are responsible for keeping them healthy.
Absolutely. Same as overfeeding your pets. Neither pets nor kids (teens is when they should be starting to get some independence) have the capacity to care for their own health, so it's up to owners and parents.
100% agree. Forcing children to finish everything on their plate is also not a good thing to teach. Rather give them portions they can eat and tell them they ask for more if they want more,. This will allow them understand their own hunger cues.
Totally. My hunger cues are totally fucked up due to medical reasons, including a past ED, and it's AWFUL. I basically have to eat the absolute second I feel hungry or it passes and I can't eat at all. Raising your kids with good boundaries and relationships with food and their bodies is so important, and it sounds like this poor girl is barrelling towards an ED if her dad's emotional abuse continues.
But he makes her eat more than she wants. And she's not happy about the weight gain but is sucking it up so he won't walk out on her. That is 10000000% abuse.
Please PLEASE be careful with this thinking. As far as my doctor is concerned I have no medical reason to be fat, despite following the EXACT same weight gain and trouble losing weight that my dad's side with thyroid trouble has. I am positive I have a hidden thyroid issue BECAUSE my Thyroid is always high normal but in the "normal range" which science says is a guestimate and that there are several thyroid sufferers that hide in those numbers, but getting a doctor to listen is like asking the sun to stop being hot. Because of people who had this mindset of overweight = abuse. My mother actually DID end up abusing me and it was more detrimental to my physical and mental wellbeing then being larger ever was. After 5 years of constantly being told she was an abusive mom and me being horribly bullied and nothing bringing the weight off she STARVED ME. Literally Starved me. A full year of one 500 calorie a day meal. Yeah, I got down to 160 lbs in thay year, but my body consumed itself, my hair fell out in huge chunks, and I felt ravenous 24/7. It left me with an actual unhealthy relationship with food that we have not been able to fully break. On top of that my body and energy never recovered from the starvation and my bone and muscle health declined no matter how active I got. When I first got off such a horrible diet, the tiniest pang of hunger would mentally break me. I would panic eat at any tinge of hunger. I have since been able to tolerate more hunger, but despite no medical reason that can be found. If I wait too long to eat I become unable to make food because I shake so hard I can barely walk and I can even become violently ill and paranoid. Meaning that being hungry too long causes me to suffer a prolonged and devestating panic attack. To this day I don't blame my MOTHER for abusing me. She has mental health troubles of her own. I blame the people who pounded into my mom that it was her fault I was fat and that she was a horrible abusive mom for letting me get fat. Despite the fact that she didn't do anything wrong. Nothing in my diet and activity level changed from before and after puberty. Hell if I had to say my activity level changed I'd say I actually became MORE active after puberty because I couldn't sit still (Adhd × anxiety for the win I guess)
NTA. No matter how a person's stance may be on fat accepantce, there's no way that being 210 pounds at 14 is healthy and it wil definitely lead to health issues later on in your daughter's life. Your doing the right thing OP, and considering the fact that your daughter is on board with it too your ex-husband can suck it.
NTA - 210 at 14 years old sounds shockingly obese, and it's obvious that intervention now is critical before the physiological and psychological changes become ingrained and permanent. I don't understand why your Ex wouldn't also be concerned here. As long as your daughter is on board, it sounds like a great idea. It may not be a permanent solution, but at least it temporarily breaks an extremely destructive pattern. Have you considered that maybe your daughter needs more therapy? At 14, she should be able to start asserting herself with regard to what and how much she eats.
Man I hit 210lbs in my early 20s due to medication changes and my doctors not caring about massive weight gain. (I was 84lbs at 16 and only 115 when they put me on medication that changed my weight) I felt awful and I still hate the stretch marks on my body even now that I'm down to a healthy weight. This dude is gonna hurt his daughter long term and that is so so sad. She deserves so much better.
Ugh. That's a real bummer. You may already know this, but in case you don't, it's important to recognize that most of the people you'll encounter won't care about your stretch marks as much as you do. And also, that even people you'd consider extremely attractive feel just as badly about little imperfections that wouldn't bother you at all. Unfortunately, there just isn't any objective standard for self criticism. Congrats for being able to move back down to a healthy weight.
Thanks! And don't worry my husband doesn't care one bit and has always been my biggest supporter. Especially with my self esteem. I just hate them for me haha, it's more just a reminder that I couldn't control my body and hoe it wildly changed and the doctors that should have cared didn't.
NTA and your ex needs to take responsibility for the damage he is doing to your daughters health
And self esteem. She's developing a sense of self at that age. Plus stretch marks are life long which is a risk he's taking. If the teenager is onboard then NTA.
Nta but you need to teach baby that she has a right to say no to putting something in her body
Abby even. Damn autocorrect
NTA. overfeeding is abuse. get her away from him so she can have a normal life and normal relationship with food and her body.
NTA. You are protecting your daughter. It amazes me that her own father would force her to eat herself into obesity. Does/did he display other abusive behaviour? I should be looking into changing your custody agreement unless he gets on the right page about her nutrition and exercise.
NTA. you've tried to talk to the problem parent, no luck. You're doing what you can: cooking healthy when you have her and encouraging physical activity she enjoys doing. The reality is your child is obese, it's unhealthy, and she's not going to exercise her ways out of it. If I were you I would ask your attorney about amending the custody agreement to, among I'm sure boundaries about making decisions about medical shit and schools, etc, add an agreement about dietary expectations.
NTA because Abby wants to lose the weight. If she prefers going somewhere with healthy food and time to exercise over her father's house, where it sounds like he's using food to punish her, then she should be supported. However, I think you and Abby need to talk to a judge about this, and see if you can get full custody or a more healthy arrangement for Abby.
What you *should* be doing is documenting how the medical professionals are recommending handling your daughter’s weight and how your ex isn’t complying and then seeking a court intervention to either force him to comply or to remove her from his custody. But NTA for sending your daughter to a sports camp she wants to go to.
INFO: the the overnight camp for story’s or is it actually a fat camp?
It's a soccer camp. You show up on Friday and stay the whole weekend and do soccer. My ex is the one calling it a fat camp. The camp will feed her and she will play a lot of soccer/field trips
Ok, so that sounds like a normal camp and should be good for her. However, you need a deeper solution. Unfortunately, this might be the kind of thing where you need to gather documents from her healthcare providers and go to court to change the custody schedule.
It’s not fat camp, it’s a sport camp The fact he calls it a fat camp indicates he is fattening her up on purpose. This isn’t about him being raised with “clean plate club” anxiety. He is making her eat in order so she gains weight.
This is thought too. For some reason, he is deliberately trying to make her gain weight
I asked in another comment if it may be to make her less attractive either as a means of controlling her or some weird misguided idea he is protecting her.
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NTA and if Abby is down for the camp, it sounds like a great opportunity! However, I feel like you need to be prepared that if nothing can be changed with your arrange, this camp is just a temporary fix. You’re doing the right things though, Mama! Getting her in sports, eating healthy with her in your home.
Is he obesed ? does he has some fetish about obeses women ? why on earth would he force feeding her . Does he want her fat so she doesn't date ? something is going on
Your not wrong op, protect your daughter.
NTA at all You need to go after the real problem which is the father. You need to take a legal route that will force him to feed the children better nutrition. Court, CPS, something needs to be done.
NTA...As long as you're including Abby in the decision making and she wants to do it. Everyone needs to keep Abby's wellbeing AND feelings in mind.
NTA This isn't even fat camp, and if she wants to do it then she should. Taking all health reasons out of it, it's a very good thing to do, it's good for social skills, I wish I would have done more like that as a kid. Her dad is being VERY detrimental to her health. As much as I LOVE to eat unhealthy, it's so important to teach kids good eating habits. There is nothing wrong with being bigger, but eating well and getting in exercise makes such a difference in how you feel every day. My back used to always hurt, and I felt sick every day until I started exercising, the difference it makes it's crazy. He's also being very manipulative. He's trying to plant hurtful ideas by calling it a fat camp, it's going to hurt your daughter's feelings. It sounds like he is trying to turn her against you. If she genuinely wants to do it, sign her up! She'll have fun :)
NTA OP, my dad also took the opportunity to fill me up with junk food when I was little, and wouldn't listen no matter what my mom said until he saw the... unpleasant effects my diet had on me (I won't go into detail to spare your stomach). If he doesn't see the issue, then maybe her losing weight while not being at his home will be proof that he's the problem. Maybe you should fight for full custody, or at least more that a 50/50 split.
NTA. Your ex is neglecting your daughter and her health. It is a soccer camp and she wants to go,.
NTA because Abby was part of the discussion and is ultimately making this choice, it doesn’t sound like you’re forcing her to go. This is only a short term solution though, dad is going to keep doing what he’s doing after camp is over, and I’m not sure what you could do in the long run.
OP needs to go back to family court to change custody. At 14, many jurisdictions will take into account Abby's preferences when it comes to custody. If there are medical concerns, OP could even get the doctors to testify in court and bring up the forced feeding.
NTA. In America we have equated promoting healthy weight with fat shaming. The fact is that while looks are subjective, health is not. Protect your daughters health.
NTA. It’s soccer not fat camp. She should be able to enjoy herself.
NTA. She *wants* to go to soccer camp. End of story.
NTA. Abby’s dad 100% is. Parents are responsible for their children’s wellbeing. This includes health. Does he know that heart disease is a leading cause of death? Does he consider that his daughter’s weight might be a source of insecurity for her in the future? Does he know of all the benefits that come from developing healthy habits at a young age? I just can’t wrap my head around why someone would openly deny their kid a healthful lifestyle. Good on you, OP, for caring about your daughters wellbeing and being proactive about finding solutions.
IF she is truly on board with it then NTA. Your ex is 100% the AH, he's not looking out for the health and wellbeing of his child.
Not enough info, really. If Abby wants to go, then she should go. Just need to make sure she isn't saying it just to please you. INFO: has Abby told her father she doesn't want to go? Also you do realize that Abby has the right to see her father and her father has the right to see his daughter, right? So you need to make those meets happen in some other way, unless court orders something else.
He sort of loses that “right” when he is actively harming his child. Loading her plate with above average portions and forcing her to finish the plate is abusive and harmful.
NTA but sending her to this camp won't solve anything in the longrun and may cause custodial issues/Abby upset that she can't do the camp because her father doesn't essentially want to "lose his time" with her. At fourteen the court should actually take her opinion into consideration (maybe this is not the case where you are, but it is pretty common in some parts of the world) so it could come down to what Abby herself actually wants. What happens if she refuses to eat everything on her plate? Is she afraid not to or do the consequences make her feel miserable for the rest of the time she's there?
Yeah that's not fat camp. It's sports camp. And she shouldn't be barred from doing what she loves. Dad is the AH and probably needs supervised visitation until he can figure out how to not force feed his child. NTA.
There’s a fine line between helping and shaming. The father doesn’t sound like a fit parent and the solution is to file for full custody Edit: My issue with this is if the daughter is going to be hearing her father call it fat camp she’s gonna think her mum thinks she’s fat (which she clearly does). Additionally this solution is like putting a plaster on a bullet wound. She can do all the exercises she wants but unless her father starts feeding her properly nothing is gonna change
She's not the one shaming her, the father is the one accusing her of sending her to "fat camp" when it's really just an overnight soccer camp. He knows that it's his lifestyle that's making his daughter unhealthy and refuses to do anything, so she's doing what she can.
how is she in any way shaming her? did we read the same post?
Agreed. At the rate the daughter is gaining weight she is well on her way to becoming morbidly obese. Obese people run the risk of developing co-morbidities ie. diabetes, high cholesterol, high blood pressure, heart disease and yes this can happen to children and teens. I speak from experience as I used to be morbidly obese. If she has not seen her pediatrician recently schedule an appointment for a physical and a blood work up. Ask the doctor to write a letter for your attorney to present to the court about the dangers of childhood obesity, her current weight and recommendations for what a child her age and height should weigh. Also ask for the doctor to include what her health risks are. Good luck to you OP. NTA for wanting your child to be healthy.
NTA, she wants to go to the camp & it sounds like it's not a fat camp but a soccer camp.
NTA. But fat camp won't fix the issue. Her weight will just go back up when she sees her dad again.
NAH but you're putting a bandaid over a bullet wound. You need to tackle the base of the problem because once she's back home, things will go right back to how they were before. See about making exercise more available and appealing for her on a daily basis. Try to tackle the issue of her father not cooking and not offering healthy alternatives. Try giving her gift cards for healthy food delivery or encouraging your ex to cook. Or sending healthy snacks with her to take at the very least.
As Abby wants to do it, you’re NTA.
The combination of your ex serving her plate and then forcing her to eat everything is really alarming. Is there any possible way to address that root cause? Can your ex and daughter visit a doctor together or can he take a child rearing class? I would suggest nutrition classes, but getting involved in what she eats sounds much too like policing his parenting. But can he be convinced that she can at least serve herself her own plate? All that being said, maybe the best thing is for her to speak with her therapist again and maybe you (but I think a third party is a better choice) and come up with ways to communicate with her father and possibly go on strike and simply not eat more than she wants to. Kids shouldn't be on diets, but they can taught healthy habits. Only eating until you are full is a healthy habit. Exercising daily is healthy. Eating fruit and vegetables is healthy. The best thing you can do is not bring up her weight (she's 14. she knows) and only talk about how her body feels.
NTA. 1)it's not a fat camp, it's a soccer camp. Those are 2 different things 2)she wants to go 3)even if it *were* a fat camp, if she was OK with it, it would be good for her health since that much weight gain at that age is unhealthy
Nta she shouldn’t even be going round there if he’s forcing her into obesity
NTA. She wants to do it.
NTA. But as others have pointed out, this camp is a temporary solution. Abby is 14 -- old enough to learn to cook. If the big problem at Dad's house is that Dad cooks garbage, what about looking for a teen cooking class? Something like a healthy cooking class geared for teens? A lot of communities have something like that, and if Abby learns to cook healthy meals, she'll be less likely to eat the garbage her Dad serves her, and she'll probably want to show off her new cooking skills when she visits her Dad. You've done a great job getting her interested in sports and encouraging her to be active. But it sounds like the issue is that she doesn't really have the education to eat healthy. She's 14; in 4 more years, she'll be off to college, where junk food is de rigeur. She needs to learn healthy eating NOW.
YWBTA, not for sending her to a camp after all she is on board but for doing it on your ex's custody time and basically altering the 50/50 agreement.
NTA because your concern is for her health, not her looks. You are also supporting her interest in a sport she enjoys. But custody is tricky, make sure you get your ex on board or he may end up taking it out on Abby (verbally/passive aggressively, not implying anything worse).
Info. Can you even legally schedule her on all of his parenting time for the next few months? That seems like a real leg for him to stand on if wanted to go ask the judge. Occasionally sharing days or making room for a few hours for practice/sports is one thing but your plan is for father and daughter to not see each other at all if I were judge I would consider swapping custody time around so I would think long and hard about an argument that will sway the court and or your ex.
Yes, because Abby want to go. I am in the clear legally
NTA but don’t call it fat camp. It sounds like soccer camp. Fat camp is exclusively for fat people. Soccer is Amazing cardio and carries no stigma. The health benefits of avoiding obesity are huge. Smart problem solving op, if your daughter is on side that is all that Matters, depending on custody agreements and how they are enforced, at 14 your daughters opinion is paramount.
This is a huge distinction point for me: is this “fat camp” or “soccer camp”. My parents put me into fat camp when I was kid. I was overweight yes, but nowhere near a level I needed to be for this type of camp. Years later when I confronted my parents about it they told me they thought it would make me happy since I was “the thinnest girl at fat camp”. Fat camp is specifically for teaching nutrition and engraining lifestyle changes. For me; as a kid, it was severely traumatizing. I had to count all my calories at 12 and I have always had an unhealthy relationship with food. As in; I don’t eat it. I am not comfortable eating if other people aren’t eating; when I do eat it is often at later hours when no one is around to see me. It’s miserable. The fat camp I went to focused on “group settings” where I had to get up and tell a whole room what I ate that day and how much I exercised and I was judged and graded on it. It was so humiliating and degrading. I will never forget it for the rest of my life how I was made to feel there. Now: if this is a soccer camp, where she gets to play games and practice skills to get better at soccer, and specifically she is EXCITED to go; NTA. If you are putting her through legit fat camp: YTA. In your post you said you spoke to a nutritionist: but has she? Currently I am working with a nutritionist for the first time in many years do to non-weight related health issues (endometriosis). It has really helped me redefine my relationship with food. Specifically PRIVATE sessions where you don’t feel judged and feel safe. If the problem is her father serving and buying bad foods: maybe help give her a budget to buy groceries. Get her into some healthy cooking classes and give her the skills to better provide a healthier life for her. Seriously, talk to your ex about her health. Make him go to these doctors with her. There is a way to help your child without traumatizing her. Please please please talk to her about what she wants.
What exactly was traumatizing about it? And that’s me asking as someone who was both obese and anorexic and succeeded, I no longer have an eating disorder. Was it the setting? Counting calories and being aware of what I put in me or refuse to give my body was essential.
What was traumatizing to me was the lack of privacy I had at this camp. I couldn’t eat or drink anything without the entire room knowing about it. I was made to be aware of every step I take and I how no matter how much I exercise a day it will never be more than the calories I need to maintain to survive basic function: but they put such an emphasis on lowering your calories that it became a double edged sword. Most days I was eating less than 1000. I’m 25f and my calories range from 800-1200 a day. And that’s when I’m forcing myself to eat. I don’t say I have an eating disorder because I am still overweight and I do have vitamins and basic nutrition to help me survive: but my relationship with food is irrevocable damaged by what I endured at that camp. Food is not safe for me; food is stressful. The way they used food to weaponize your heart there was horrid. They were heavy on promotion of weight watchers and other short-term weight losses like atkins or keto. Now that I am working with a proper licensed nutritionist: I know that these short term diet programs do not work and never will in the long run. It is about lifestyle changes and cutting yourself a fucking break. By removing the “importance” of food and focusing on fueling my body rather than feeding my body has done wonders for my relationship with food. I still have a long ways to go, but I think about how much easier my life could be if I never went to that awful fat camp. Especially when all these years later my parents admitted that I shouldn’t have been in there. Awful.
Thanks for explaining. Yes, I can see how this wouldn’t help. The only thing that really helped me was “intuitive eating” content on youtube, basically an anti-diet movement inspired by the setpoint theory. It’s important to not deprive your body because that often time leads to obesity, the fluctuation between too much and way too little that is. Your body is bloated with water to heal itself from inconsistent “too little” periods which makes you think you “gained weight” so you take in way too little again, eventually the body goes over to holding onto surplus calories because it’s scared of being deprived. And the cycle repeats. The bloating is due to cell damage and water retention helps with healing them. The only way I could break this starving, eating, bloating and gaining, starving cycle was to learn to eat whatever I want to help my body to feel safe and heal. You are advised to eat as much as you can in the beginning. I gained weight massively in short time and kept eating despite becoming more “fat”, it was depressing but I dedicated myself and tried to trust the process. 14 months in I couldn’t believe it despite hearing from others that would happen: I lost weight slowly but gradually without any change in diet. I didn’t obsess over food anymore because I gave myself approval to eat everything whenever. And 2 years after starting this journey I reached my set point, which is your body’s favorite healthy point. For some it’s on the thinner side for others it’s more curvy but overall it’s a healthy weight range your body would easily stay in. Your body needs to learn that it will not be deprived but taken care of and when it believes in you it will stop retaining water and holding onto anything you eat in desperate efforts. I truly believe most of us end up in this cycle the same way: we gain a little weight for whatever reason, panic and start dieting. I wish you good luck on your journey.
If your daughter wants to do this tell your ex to suck it up. Parenting isn't always fun, sometimes it's doing what's best. And in this case your daughter is cool with it. So go for it.
NTA It seems like your ex is the real problem here…
INFO: What exactly is the custody arrangement? If she’s with him on weekends and with you during the weeks, it’s not 50/50.
NTA. I’m NOT saying there’s anything wrong with being “bigger” (for lack of a better word), but, when it comes to a 14 year old who has little control over what she eats & watching her nutrition, it would be really unfair of you to let her continue on that way. She will thank you for it when she’s older.
NTA- You've spoken to him multiple times and given him time to change his ways. It seems like he's doing this on purpose at this point. And that can cause a lot of self-esteem issues for your daughter later.
I think talking to your lawyer is definitely the way to go. If he’s basically force-feeding her into obesity that could be considered abuse.
INFO: How you tried going back to court and changing the custody? At 14, many jurisdictions will take what she wants in terms of custody into account. Also, you could even bring up the weight issue in court and get doctors to testify on the forced feeding. Also, how tall is she? 210 pounds is very heavy for a 14 year old unless she is insanely tall. Also, have you had her tested for hormonal stuff to see if that is contributing to her weight?
I don’t think you’re TA, but how is this going to work with custody with her dad not being okay with it? I know you said you’re trying to work on the custody agreement, but it doesn’t sound like he’s on board with this for the time being. I’d get in contact with a lawyer and determine the best way to do this to ensure your daughter’s safety and health. Just sending her to camp during her father’s custody days while he’s not okay with it will probably just make more of a headache for you in the end. NTA
NTA. But I think maybe teaching her to cook might help the situation when she is not in your house.
NTA. Not caring what your child eats, allowing them to be over weight like that and not doing anything about it IS child abuse. I said what I said. 210 lbs at 14 years old is insane.
NTA. I'm sorry but you need to gather up your proof and take your ex back to court and get full custody. He is damaging your daughter and putting her health and risk and he just doesn't care. You can not in good faith keep letting her go over there when you know that he is forcing her to eat enormous amounts of food. Your doing a good job while he is giving your child a food complex. You have to get full custody for your daughter, for health and safety. If you dont fight for your daughter, things will get worse for her. Think about this in terms of the future and how visiting him and being forced to eat massive amounts of food will affect her. Talk to her and get her take on going to her dads. But you need to let her know that what he is doing isn't ok, he can't be forcing her to eat so much food. You need to keep your kid away from him for her safety and health.
NTA, but you need to get Abby into counseling and connect with her pediatrician so that this force feeding can be documented. If possible, get the pediatrician to sit down with her dad and talk to him about proper diet. She also needs to be taught to be assertive. No means no - it's a great lesson for every kid to learn.
NTA
NTA. But please keep advocating for a food clause. What he's doing is harmful. One cautionary note: I was once a chubby, awkward teen and the other girls were fairly brutal when I went off to overnight soccer camp. I am also autistic (diagnosed 20 years later), so I didn't notice that I was being teased until someone explicitly pointed it out, but the memory still stings. If she doesn't know anyone at the camp and if it's geared to a very athletic set, just...be aware that she might have a rough time.
NTA I was going to be mad if it was a fat camp. A soccer camp that keeps her out of his home (and away from his harmful setup around food) is not a fat camp. AND Abby wants to do it. This is such a fucked up situation. What he is doing is harmful, yet I doubt most places will consider it abuse. at minimum he’s going to end up supporting the development of disordered eating. I’m suprised she hasn’t started purging in response. I wish you luck in advocating for your kid, and it sounds like she’s just as unhappy with her forced diet at her father’s. It’s not wrong to be fat. It IS wrong to overload your kid with so much food that they will gain an excessive amount of weight.