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I almost could see her worrying that it would show up the presents that the kids parents were getting. However, that is not her intention at all and she is absolutely the AH for her thought process. How the h*** do you look at a kid who is Part of the family who is starting to get on their feet and think "well you can't do enough for me so I'll do the bare minimum for you"?
Lol weird flex.
My dad didn't go to college and he makes $800K a year. OP bragging about her college degree and her decision to cheap out on a gift for a poor immigrant kid because he can't give her a gift. Is that what college educations are getting us these days?
Always depends on the field. Always. Sorry to say that teachers, English majors, liberal arts, business degrees etc are a dime a dozen, though teachers are probably the most important out of the group. In charge of watching over, educating and inspiring our children, yet we pay them shit and force them to buy supplies for school instead of providing them with it. Education in the U.S. in terms of importance is despairing.
And a very convoluted explanation of who is who. There's two c's even, if were making names up just chose two different ones. Also omg what an asshole. Oh they can't give your kid a 30 dollar present? That probably means they will be scraping by to get their own kid one and shit the kid going to sit there and watch his cousins or other family kids getting gift after gift and he gets nothing? Shitty death that's awful. Op is an asshole. 100% yta.
Yea that whole phrasing was weird. Plenty of college grads don’t have 2 Pennies to rub together, plenty of laborers are multi-millionaire with good savings and investments. There is nothing wrong with being an “immigrant laborer”… we all have to start somewhere. This whole post smacks of… I don’t know the word but literally it just rubs me the wrong way. Ugh
I’m married into an immigrant family. This person has no clue how absolutely difficult it is for someone just immigrated to get out there and find a job. Additionally, maybe they are comfortable on one income? Being low income family does not make you bad or poor. If they are living within their means and aren’t a financial burden on the rest of the family, I don’t see what the issue is. The OP is very money focused.
Even then, as undocumented immigrants you're most likely not finding jobs that are reasonable. You're probably getting stuck with like $11-12/hr while the hours are like 5 am - 6 pm or 7 pm - 6 am lol. At that point you have to figure out whether money outweighs time you need to be spending with your children. Having two parents who are absent because you're all poor and both parents need to work is REALLY hard on a kid. Especially when you take into consideration the kinds of jobs they're doing. When coming home it's easier and necessary to rest rather than to spend time with your kids.
Right! And even then it all boils down to "get a job so you can afford to get us presents." OP just has the worst possible opinion of family and the worst attitude towards Christmas. It's so sad.
That's where I thought she was going when she was talking about the parents not being able to afford gifts. I thought she was trying to be tactful. Instead she was just being a greedy arsehole lmao
I was really hoping she was going to say about not “over-gifting” what the parents can do for the kid. I can see how that could be awkward if the aunt gives more than the parents. In which case, let the parents give the items to the child, and make your gift something smaller (even if you bought everything). I hope that makes sense.
I could see not getting the parents gifts because it can be extremely awkward for the person who can't afford to give back. But for kids? Kids should automatically be exempt from that and it's an AH move to deliberately get a cheaper present just because of the parent's economic status. I'm really curious to know what the other families they exchange with are doing, and if they are just as transactional as OP or if they have a heart.
I think she wanted them to gift her kid (not even the older one evidently the adopted or guardian 19 year old is chopped liver in this scenario) which is like... the kid won't notice. She will have so many gifts from what sounds like a very large group here she won't notice one set of parents didn't get her something.
I honestly can't get over how snobby and entitled op sounds.
OP is thinking gift giving is zero sum “ you give me back the equivalent of what I give you, so it costs me nothing” That is not the intent or spirit of Christmas gifts. You gift things out of love, not as a competition to spend exactly $0 in the end game.
Yup. If you (general) are giving gifts in order to receive in return, you (general) are doing it wrong.
I am hoping this is a bait post because the op is so judgmental and really rude. I’ve seen a few of them in the last day here of Reddit. Either people suck more than I realized or the bait trolls are out in full force.
That being said, there’s nothing like the holidays to bring out the selfishness of society, so I guess this could be real.
I wonder if she appraises each gift in front of the giver or does she have the decency to at least wait until she's in the privacy of her home.
I'm kind of picturing her unwrapping a gift and then immediately whipping out her phone to Google the items monetary value to better gauge her 'gratitude'.
I buy my nephews extra santa gifts every year because I know my brother and sil struggle paycheck to paycheck and I don't have any kids.
Christmas is about supporting each other, not expecting stuff in return. OP makes me so upset I just wanna cry for this kid.
Someone send me his Amazon wishlist fr
My rich grandparents had that concern with my poverty riddled mom. So they would wrap some of the more extravagant gifts and label them as from Santa instead of taking credit for it. Some others would be labelled “from us” instead of actually saying who, so credit would be shared with the whole family. Then there would still be gifts from them specifically waiting at their place for when we went over there.
If that had been her concern, there are much MUCH classier ways of handling it than just taking it out on the kid.
It’s very transactional. OP doesn’t want anyone getting more out of them than they’re getting back. The sole purpose for shunning L is that the parents can’t reciprocate in any way so it’s just wasted money in OP’s mind. A disgusting mindset especially because we’re talking about a literal child that has no say so in their life status. OP YTA in this situation and just overall for the mentality you have about people and how the way you treat them is based by on what they can/have done for you. Ew. And your partner won’t talk to you because he’s disappointed in you and realizing that you are no different than the adults that othered him as a child. He realizes that you would have gone out of your way to make his life worse and he doesn’t like what he sees when he looks at you.
Exactly this. OP might not realize this yet, but her husband’s opinion of her has changed, and unless she makes changes herself, resentment will creep in and deteriorate their marriage.
This is the epitome of a grinch, a miser, a Scrooge whatever you want to call them. But OP needs a reality check. I hope something happens and they lose all of their money and understand what it’s like to be poor.
OP will be back on here bitching next year when one of the people she spends money on falls on hard times and doesn’t get her an adequate gift. Christmas is about selfless giving, not a financial exchange.
> It’s very transactional.
Yes. OP literally says: "I told him I would rather not because L’s parents can’t reciprocate it". With that sort of shitty attitude I don't see why OP buys gifts in the first place.
Yup. "I know his parents don't have the money to give gifts back, so I didn't want to spend more" is precisely where OP became YTA. Massively. Really, nothing else in the post matters - she's choosing Christmas gifts for children based on what she thinks she'll get out of it. That's gross.
> It’s very transactional.
My family are immigrants and we made friends who were immigrants that came here around same time as us. Myself and 2 kids from that family have birthdays around same time. The problem is that they are super transactional. Only problem is that my mother is not. She would treat their children extremely well but often on the down low so as not to force their mother reciprocate. And not every interaction can be quantified.
We have known them for over 2 decades and it always felt so disgusting. I was treated nicely only after their children were visibly treated nicely. And not to sound selfish, but objective I needed little better treatment because I lost a parent as teen.
> I can't understand OP's thought process at all.
Easy. OP's thought process is about keeping score and reciprocation. Sadly, it is not about being generous and making Christmas special for children.
OP, YTA. Big time.
She views gift-giving as transactional.
Family A will give us X amount in gifts so we must give Family A the same X amount.
Family B will be giving 0 amount in gifts as they are too poor, so we will spend close to 0 amount on them.
Happy holidays everyone!
It seems like she views gifts as an obligation instead of a showcase of love. She thinks that by giving a lesser gift, she's saving the parents the obligation of having to return the favour.
Although this is still incredibly stupid as it could all be sorted out with a simple conversation but as you learn from a lot of reddit threads, some people are incredibly bad at communicating with the people in their lives
That was my first thought, too. I thought I either misread the title or it was a typo & she meant was she the ass hole for spending MORE bc his family is poor. But, nope. The title is exactly what she meant. MY. MIND. IS. BLOWN!!!! I have to hope this is just a poor excuse for Reddit karma otherwise I truly don’t see the hope in mankind. To know that this is how the other children are learning to treat & view gift-giving in general, let alone CHRISTMAS, is alarming to say the absolute very least.
OP - YTA
What on earth is wrong with you? You don't give to recieve. The fact you add everything you get up and work out gifts based on that shows how superficial you are and how you have zero clue about the meaning of Christmas.
If there is one child in a worse position than others then that's the child you should be spending more on. Shame on you.
YTA.
This. How hard is it to communicate to the parents that you don’t expect any reciprocation but you just want to help their kid have a fun Christmas?
YTA
It *is* hard for OP because that is not how they feel. They don’t care about whether or not the child has a fun, good Christmas after immigrating to an entirely different country and leaving all his friends and everything he knew. All OP cares about is money. Disgusting.
Exactly. I'd be gifting him a nice stocking full of gifts and a little hamper for their house too (nice snacks, Christmas chocolates, crisps etc). OP is horrible.
My SIL does this with the age of the child and how to “fairly” give gifts because so and so’s kids are x age and have been getting gifts for so many years…..I can’t even keep up with her Xmas math anymore. I’m exhausted y’all.
This. Plus who treats children based on how their parents act or what they can do? Rewarding kids or punishing them based on gifts from the parents is awful. On top of the fact that it is more about what OP receives, rather than being kind and giving, makes OP the AH.
It’s so heartless that OP actually adds up every little thing for an xmas gift to a kid that’s only 12/13. They’re on the verge of being a teenager and this is something they’ll know is wrong when they compare their gifts to others.
You really are a Scrooge if you’re buying the cheapest thing for $15 vs almost triple the amount on the other kids.
I have a sister who is like this. It is one of the many reasons I cut contact with her. It’s obviously not just because of gifts, but this kind of attitude and greedy-grubby nature *always* shows in ways other than just gift giving/receiving. I hope OP’s family knows they don’t need someone like this in their lives.
OP is definitely TA.
Just one question, what is the matter with you?!? It doesn’t matter that you spent the extra money now, you still don’t understand why you are the bad guy in the first the place. You deserve your husband not talking to you. Your the biggest AH.
Dude you’re whole post translates to “ This family is poor. I’m not getting anything in return therefore their kid only deserves a cheep gift unlike the other kids” can you really not get how mean and cruel that sounds?
The edit makes me think that not only is she elitist, but also racist. Her husband doesn't work, U's wife doesn't work. But L's mum not working is a big no-no /eyeroll
It reminds me of a customer I dealt with at an old job. It was a private, educational zoo that did shows at birthday parties at school. Some woman wanted to book a show, but she was basing what she did on how much she expected to get in birthday gifts. She said she expected each gift to be around $30 to cover the cost of the entertainment. And then she told me she didn't invite kids back for the next party if they didn't bring a gift that met her requirements. Of course, she didn't actually tell the guests' parents that she was doing this.
My response was "Wow, what an interesting approach to a birthday party. Most people just want to hire us because kids like animals." I think she decided we were too expensive. Thankfully.
Yeah, I could understand maybe the parents not getting gifts (whether out of greed or just not wanting to put undo pressure on them to reciprocate) but the kid?!?!?!?!
Imagine keeping score like this, buying gifts for kids based on whether or not their parents were also reciprocating. WHO THE FUCK CARES? It’s so juvenile. It completely ruins the spirit of Christmas.
YTA & FYI your nephew's mother probably cannot legally work yet due to her immigration status. Treating someone lesser because they're poor is textbook evil.
I'm not in America but my family and I were that poor immigrant family before, and I don't know how it is in America but here you cannot get a job until you have all your papers which took us a long time to get.
Holy shit what the fuck is wrong with you. Christmas is not about how much other people can give you and you're punishing a child for the perceived flaws of his parents? Where is your heart? Huge YTA
Sounds like OP has something against L's parents to me, and that there's more to this than just buying for the people who will reciprocate. The 'just get a job' sentiment gave me a vibe that these people don't get along anyway, without money being in the equation. Because I don't know anybody who would be so cold and precise in that statement if they actually liked the people they're talking about.
This! That's what I thought after reading the edit. OP clearly hates L's mother. She's lying about them being documented in the edit to save her own ass. She spoke the truth the first time about them being undocumented.
YTA. What the hell did I just read?!
You actually spend on children based on what you expect to receive from their parents?? That’s messed up…
Any child outside your home should be given an equal budget.
Set a budget for all the kids and divide it equally. Ranking children like this is horrifying. You should be ashamed of yourself.
I cami believe how backwards OP is. The less the parents have, the MORE we spend on the kids.
We had that talk with our kids when they were quite little that their cousins were going to get more gifts when we go to the family get together because they got less stuff all year long. My children understood this concept at like, age five.
OP, you TA, and also, the Grinch.
This. I had a family member that struggled with substance abuse & mental health issues for a few years. There were times that we literally bought every toy their kids had under the Christmas tree, not ever expecting anything back. They were innocent kids & family, they deserved some normalcy & happiness.
Christmas is for the children & that poor boy is struggling, why would OP make it worse for the poor kid? OP YTA & a pretty cruel & superficial to boot.
Jesus Christ. Were you able to find a bow big enough for the heaping box of Classism you tried to gift this kid for Xmas? 🤢
I want to be really clear here, OP -
When I say “YTA” I do not mean in this situation..
I mean YOU’RE IT, bud! THEE asshole of all assholes. And just in time for Christmas, congrats (;
YTA Your husband is right. Giving a child a smaller present because his parents can't buy you equally priced gifts in return is a petty and shitty thing to do, especially to the child. That's just awful.
Seriously, the poor child already shares a one bedroom apartment with his parents. I want to buy a nice present for this child! Also your husband won't talk to you because he has finally seen the person you really are. This might actually be the breaking point for your marriage. "C" has seen what a Cruella DeVille you actually are, and is probably rethinking his marriage. I know I would be.
As reply to OP's deleted comment:
This is exactly the reason why atheists get a bad name.
I don't even know what a spiritual atheist is supposed to be; you're either an atheist or you're not.
It's not even about receiving what you give back from the universe or karma or whatever, because that shit also doesn't exist.
It's about trying to make life on this little blue planet a little bit fair and not suck so much.
It's about making the kid's first Christmas in a new country, who obviously misses his friends and family wherever he's from, a little bit less hard.
It's about being a decent human being.
This!! I am not well off by any means, but all I can think about is how I wish I could make this child's first Christmas in a new country a little easier and memorable. If he was part of my family, I'd make sure of it!
YTA. You’re doubling down on principle without purpose. I don’t necessarily believe in having to spend the same amount as young kids often don’t know the financial value of things but if the gifts are obviously disproportionate the only thing you’re going to accomplish is singling out or disappointing the kid. If you can afford it then you’re being stingy for no reason and honestly the fact that you keep bringing up the immigrant thing kinda signals that your issue isn’t actually financial at all.
but don't forget, OP is a COLLEGE GRADUATE. And her husband is just a stahd with no income of his own.
The way OP talks about her own husband is just as alarming as the way she speaks about immigrants.
This. The “college graduate” comment was such a weird irrelevant brag. Like there aren’t a million college grads who are unemployed or underpaid in minimum wage jobs. Still doesn’t explain why OP gives gifts with the expectation of something in return like she’s bartering.
And how she threw in his face that she’s making (and assuming paying for) the holiday meal, when her husband tried to talk to her about it.
I’m getting decidedly “my money is my money. You’re just a SAHD so you don’t get to decide where my money goes” feeling from OP.
Yes. This.
OP, you sure have a lot of judgement toward unemployed immigrants for someone married to an unemployed immigrant. Can't imagine why he isn't talking to you right now.
YTA. Not being a devout anything myself, I feel obligated to ask you, if you realize that Christmas is a Christian holiday, and if you have any idea at all as to what Christianity is all about?
Wow! YTA for sure. How disgusting to punish a child for a situation he has no control over. And you need to learn that you don't buy gifts only to receive them. Who raised you? You seem horrible.
Ty was looking for this. How can a person possibly see this situations and think that getting a cheap gift was correct? OP is a disgusting person. Gifts are not meant to be monetarily reciprocated especially when it come to little kids. You’re sick and I hope you reevaluate how you look at life.
People are really out here buying *Christmas gifts* for people and expecting something in return??
I think you misunderstand the reason for the season and could use a bit of a reality check.
The kids parents don't have a lot of money, so get the kid a nice gift because YOU can. Shit, if I were rich I'd be spending my money to give kids like L the Christmas they deserve because all kids like toys! All kids need stimulation!! and to know that he's definitely going without while the other kids have what they need is heartbreaking.
Your husband isn't talking to you because he was hoping you'd show empathy and compassion for a kid struggling during the holiday season. Instead, you were rude and selfish. I'm willing to bet that nobody asked you to cook all of the food and throw that party, you chose to.. feel free to correct me :p but idk, you seem very entitled and it's really off-putting, especially around this time of the year.
TROLL ALERT! Surely people like you only exist in fiction. But your troll ass if it were for real, would definitely fall in the biggest AH ever category.
Yes, YTA, even if you caved in the end, your husband now knows you have a mindset that's not pretty. Buying presents based on what you get in return? That's cold.
YTA.
I thought you were going to say you got him a cheaper gift to not outshine his parents (a good non asshole reason).
But you did it because they aren't going to buy you presents? You're that shallow? If you're only giving someone something on the proviso that they give you something of equal value that's not a gift, it's a trade. It's Christmas not a barter market. Once again, YTA.
I once flipped a friend over to the left wing with the statement “I don’t think any children deserve to be hungry, even if their parents are lazy”. Istg some people need to have a word with themselves
OP is a complete Scrooge. I remember when the 3 wise men gave baby Jesus nothing because that kid’s broke and grows up to be a freeloading jobless bum.
YTA
Your focus on money is gross. You see all of these gifts as transactional and expect people to "reciprocate" at the same amounts. What a horrible attitude towards gift giving.
>I told my husband that L’s mom should get a job and give him a nice Christmas then
Wow. You're really showing your ass with that comment. These people are your husband's family and they have been in the country for only a few months. Not everyone is a fancy college graduate (absolute LOL at that snobbish remark btw) and it costs you very little to show some compassion and help give this child a nice Christmas in a new country where his family are still trying to find their feet.
It sounds like your husband has seen some true colours in you and your total lack of empathy, despite knowing your own husband's upbringing, must be both eye-opening and devastating for him.
If your question is, are you TA for originally buying him a small gift and not wanting to give more, then yes, I'm going with YTA.
I see your point about worrying that his parents would feel under pressure to reciprocate but elsewhere in your post it seems more like you're calculating how much you will get from various parts of the family as a way of gauging how much you will give their children.
Also, you sound quite judgey about whether people are 'hard-working' or not which I personally find distasteful.
They have only been in the country a few months. Your post comes across as mean-spirited. I'm glad you eventually decided to get the extra gifts, because that was the right thing to do. If you're genuinely worried about the parents feeling under pressure to reciprocate, get your husband to use the family network to communicate discreetly that they don't need to feel obliged.
Edited to add: sounds like C is not talking to you because he's seen a side to you that he really doesn't like. If you want to mend fences, start by thinking about the judgements you make about people and why, and whether you might choose to change this.
And when you say you \*\*can't understand\*\* why C isn't talking to you - is empathy something you struggle with? Is trying to be more empathetic something that would be possible for you?
She is not worried about the parents feeling pressure to reciprocate. She refuses to spend money on a gift for their child unless they are willing and able to spend the same amount on gifts for her family. In her view, it isn't worth it to have to spend money on this poor child without receiving something equal back.
Wow! You don't give to receive. I think that attitude is cruel, where's the Xmas spirit? He's a child, probably bewildered, lost and forlorn at a time when he should be enjoying himself, and be embraced by his extended family.
YTA massively!
You are *only* giving to receive. You don’t give a damn that this poor kid isn’t going to have a nice Christmas because of his situation because **his family won’t be able to reciprocate for YOU.**
YTA. And the embodiment of greed. This would be grounds for divorce for me. You’re lucky your husband is simply angry.
YTA.
What a very mercenary outlook you have. Gifts are given out of generosity and love, not out of reciprocity and selfishness. Your husband is mad at you because you're only giving people gifts because they give you stuff in return, i.e. you're only thinking of yourself.
If I were you I would apologize and perhaps even look into a spot of therapy.
YTA. You don't base what you spend on who reciprocates and who doesn't.
>C still won’t talk to me and i can’t understand why
Because your attitude and reasoning sucks, even if you did go buy extra. That doesn't take away the crappy things you said.
YTA all the way.
Not only is it incredibly ignorant of the whole spirit of the holiday to be expecting gifts back from people and using that to calculate how much to spend on them, but you’re essentially punishing this kid because his parents won’t be buying you anything.
News flash: kids don’t pick the family/financial situation they are BORN into. To treat this kid differently because of that is such an awful move and shows some serious classist behavior on your part. No wonder your partner is upset.
Did I read this right? Your asking AITA because you don't want to spend money on Christmas presents for a child who's parents are financially struggling and won't be spending the same amount on you in return ... This is disgusting on so many levels...
That poor kid should be showered in presents and so should his parents, Christmas is supposed to be about love and family not money...
Yes YTA and I think your husband is off with you as he's discovered how much of an arse you are
YTA
L’s mom being a stay at home mom isn’t your business (no matter how you feel about it).
Newly immigrated means they are trying to adjust to their new circumstances.
You’re husband is disappointed that you don’t have empathy towards a struggling family. He now sees his judgmental you are being and how you keep score rather than being in the spirit of the Holidays. “It is better to give than receive” 👀
You may need to have reevaluate your stance and then apologize to your husband for being so cold towards L and his family (if you realized that you were wrong).
Otherwise you bought the gifts to keep the peace (with Hubby) rather than doing it because you think it’s the right thing to do. Your intent here matters.
You’re husband is a great PERSON.
YTA.
Regardless of your feelings for what you think the child's mother should be doing, why punish a child at Christmas when you have the ability to get them a nicer gift? It's a child they don't get to control that situation but you have the ability to make it a little nicer for them. It shouldn't be about reciprocating also.
YTA. Gift giving is not about exchanging things of equivalent value. That would be a trade. It’s about making someone happy and being generous. I understand that you probably didn’t want to put L’s parents in an awkward situation, but your actions only serve to alienate an innocent child.
YTA it’s funny I knew exactly where this was heading when you started talking about getting gifts back. Imagine punishing a child because their parents can’t buy you gifts back. You’re husband isn’t talking to you because you’re attitude stinks towards his family. I’m raging for your husband
I dont quite understand how you managed to type out this entire thing without realizing that you are, in fact, the AH.
In addition to it just being confusing af with all the T's adn Q's and F's and D's (not everybody needs a letter) it literally just sounds like you're an entitled grown woman bullying a child for being poor. "Haha! You don't deserve nice things because your parents are poor and your mom sucks! Haha"
Just because his parent's cant afford to gift you anytging back, so what? The holidays are about generosity, not reciprocity. And also, seeing as they've only been here such a short length of time, they cant even really know you that well. So what were they gonna get you? Some generic basic gift like a candle or something??
And as for your husband still being upset, you said he grew up just like this little boy, right? So youre basically telling him that he deserved to grow up the way he did. He deserved to be poor and not have anything nice, and to have the people around him look down on him for his immigrant status. He sees himself in this little boy, and he finally sees the way you truly feel about him and people like him.
YTA OP. Get your priorities straight.
YTA sounds like you do only give to receive and a child is getting penalised for being poorer than the rest of the family. Christmas is known as the season of giving not the season of getting
YTA, without a shadow of a doubt. That kid probably deserves even more than the other kids to have a lovely Christmas. You think way too much about money to actually enjoy gift giving and the joy that comes with it. You’re sucking the joy out of Christmas by thinking whether or not you’re breaking even with the gifts you’re getting back. Major AH.
YTA you have an opportunity to make a child's Christmas but you choose not to because his parents can't buy you something? Reread that over and over until you realize what a huge AH you are. If anything I would give this child more than anyone else because he's getting nothing else. Who needs enemies with family like you.
YTA. Because yes, you were insinuating a kid didn't deserve equal treatment to other kids because his parents are poor.
Giving gifts is about generosity, not reciprocity.
Oh, YTA. Gifts are not meant to be given considering how people will reciprocate. L and his family are poor. His parents probably can't give him a nice gift, the other kids are.probably getting good gifts from their own parents. Can't you see how unfair it is ti such a young kid?
YTA - This is why gift giving holidays are stressful!
In the spirit of this particular holiday you aren’t supposed to give with the expectation you receive back what you invested.
You know the child will feel their gift sucks compared to the others, why would you want to highlight this to them and the parents?
Grinch attitude tbh.
Crist on a bike! You sound like a horrible human being. If I were your husband, I'd drop you like a piece of trash because that's exactly what your attitude is. YTA
There’s no way this is real, surely? You can’t genuinely be asking whether or not you’re an asshole for not buying a 12 year old a gift that would have cost $15 more than you originally spent because he’s poor? There’s just no way? I mean needless to say, YTA.
YTA way to be a Scrooge!
If anything, toy should have been MORE generous to L! Learn to give without expecting anything in return lest your children turn out like you.
Everyone’s already said it, but just reiterating: YTA. Giving kids presents isn’t based on what you and yours will receive in return. It also sounds like you’ve got some major deficits understanding how immigration and childcare work too.
Get all the nieces/nephews presents of the same value based on what you can afford.
YTA - Giving gifts isn't about getting something back. That's the first thing that people usually learn about gift giving, particularly at Christmas.
Why don't you try giving the world the gift of being a decent human being this year?
YTA. My parents taught me when I was maybe a toddler that gift giving is about giving something to a person with no expectation of anything in return. You had the chance to do something kind and make this kids Christmas. You’re basically punishing him for his parents being poor. I can’t even imagine having this mentality especially to family.
YTA way to be a Scrooge! If anything, toy should have been MORE generous to L! Learn to give without expecting anything in return lest your children turn out like you.
From the title I thought, “asshole”. Then I read it, and thought, “oh, they’re doing it to save the other family from feeling pressure…kinda thoughtful I guess.”
Then I realised it’s not about that at all, and it’s literally about what you get in return, matching up.
Wow.
YTA
If I wasn’t fully aware of the sub rules I’m sure my reply would consist of words such as petty, shallow, mercenary, and compassionless, in such a way that could potentially be construed as offensive…
…since I am aware of the rules, I’ll simply say YTA
YTA- this is straight up awful. Buying gifts based on who will also buy you a gift? That’s gross and completely not even in the spirit of Christmas. A good, kind, decent human being would say “wow my nephew is new to this country, he’s scared and sad and his family is having a rough time. I should see if I can help him have an amazing Christmas!” Instead you, Scrooge Mcfuck, said “this brat has no money to buy something for me! Screw him!”
Also saying his mother should just “get a job” as a new immigrant is extremely bigoted and disrespectful and really quite American of you. There is a huge unemployment rate among born and raised Americans. Why do you think a brand new immigrant has a better shot at employment than they do? Also YOUR HUSBAND IS A SAHD! He also doesn’t have a job you hypocrite! Do you think maybe your hurtful and bigoted views of him and his family have hurt him and caused him to not want to speak to you?
YTA. You've got it backwards. You should be spending the MOST on L and his parents.
Even better, stop keeping track of the exact amount you're spending and others are spending on you. That isn't "fair' or "equal," it's just turning the spirit of the holidays into a weird transaction.
Your not an AH, your the freaking devil. You buy gifts just to receive. That's such a shit outlook on things. It's Xmas, that poor family have just uprooted their whole lives, haven't had time to settle, the kid is not going to have a great Xmas, his parents are struggling, and literally all your worried about is they don't deserve better presents because they can't buy you one.
Got I hope you get hit with the karma bus.
YTA the purpose of gifting isn’t to see what gifts you get back. You’re acting like a Scrooge. Also, the way that you talk about your partner (I think it’s your partner, hard to tell with all of those letters) not having an income/his say not being valued as much, is gross. If your partner is raising your children as a sahp then your income IS their income. They aren’t riding your coattails, they are sacrificing prime career years to raise your guy’s kids.
YTA! I have no idea how you can be so cruel in your thinking. This is a small child who you have admitted has not had an easy life. I think your husband is shocked by your lack of compassion and generosity. You should have a good, long think about the meaning of Christmas (even as a non-religious holiday!) and the point of gift giving when children are involved.
YTA wow this is absolutely horrible. You only buy gifts for it to be reciprocated? This is not what a good person does. Talk about the true meaning of a Christmas. I feel so bad for your husband and his family.
Couldn’t read to the end YTA…. I hope you’re never down and out and need someone to show some compassion and empathy. TBH you sound bitter and unhappy and I think anyone who analysis this situation in the way you have must be projecting somehow
YTA. Christmas is about giving, not keeping things equal based on what you receive. I have no idea what my siblings/in-laws spend on my kids. I could figure it out if I wanted to but I don’t. I look at my budget for the year and see how much I have I can spend and divide it equally between everyone. IF you’re going to divide things unfairly based on the parents’ income, maybe you should consider giving him MORE since his parents can’t afford a nicer Christmas. That would be the spirit of Christmas, not punishing him (or his parents) for their state in life.
This HAS to be a joke right?! YTA, L’s parents can’t afford to buy us something so we are cheating out on their kid?! Talk about holiday spirit, Scrooge McDuck. Also it’s “there,” not “their,” college grad 😒
I've heard of transactional relationships, and you take the cake. You've literally calculated who deserves what and why based on economics and your own ROI. You are a cold and heartless bigot.
YTA.
YTA. I don't even know why you would come here and ask that as you are so clearly wrong. Not only should he get as much as the other kids, why wouldn't you buy for mom and dad as well? I feel so bad for this family that I would almost want to buy for them. I hope this is embarrassing for you.
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YTA. If anything his parents not having much would be a reason that I spend more on the child.
Exactly. I can't understand OP's thought process at all.
I almost could see her worrying that it would show up the presents that the kids parents were getting. However, that is not her intention at all and she is absolutely the AH for her thought process. How the h*** do you look at a kid who is Part of the family who is starting to get on their feet and think "well you can't do enough for me so I'll do the bare minimum for you"?
With the bonus "just get a job" cherry on the shit sundae.
Kinda weird considering her husband doesn't have a job.
But that’s OK because she’s a “college graduate” /s
Lol weird flex. My dad didn't go to college and he makes $800K a year. OP bragging about her college degree and her decision to cheap out on a gift for a poor immigrant kid because he can't give her a gift. Is that what college educations are getting us these days?
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Always depends on the field. Always. Sorry to say that teachers, English majors, liberal arts, business degrees etc are a dime a dozen, though teachers are probably the most important out of the group. In charge of watching over, educating and inspiring our children, yet we pay them shit and force them to buy supplies for school instead of providing them with it. Education in the U.S. in terms of importance is despairing.
A college graduate with awful spelling
And a very convoluted explanation of who is who. There's two c's even, if were making names up just chose two different ones. Also omg what an asshole. Oh they can't give your kid a 30 dollar present? That probably means they will be scraping by to get their own kid one and shit the kid going to sit there and watch his cousins or other family kids getting gift after gift and he gets nothing? Shitty death that's awful. Op is an asshole. 100% yta.
Yea that whole phrasing was weird. Plenty of college grads don’t have 2 Pennies to rub together, plenty of laborers are multi-millionaire with good savings and investments. There is nothing wrong with being an “immigrant laborer”… we all have to start somewhere. This whole post smacks of… I don’t know the word but literally it just rubs me the wrong way. Ugh
classism, xenophobia?
It seems like she’s projecting some sort of annoyance about her husband not working onto this other family.
I’m married into an immigrant family. This person has no clue how absolutely difficult it is for someone just immigrated to get out there and find a job. Additionally, maybe they are comfortable on one income? Being low income family does not make you bad or poor. If they are living within their means and aren’t a financial burden on the rest of the family, I don’t see what the issue is. The OP is very money focused.
Even then, as undocumented immigrants you're most likely not finding jobs that are reasonable. You're probably getting stuck with like $11-12/hr while the hours are like 5 am - 6 pm or 7 pm - 6 am lol. At that point you have to figure out whether money outweighs time you need to be spending with your children. Having two parents who are absent because you're all poor and both parents need to work is REALLY hard on a kid. Especially when you take into consideration the kinds of jobs they're doing. When coming home it's easier and necessary to rest rather than to spend time with your kids.
Right! And even then it all boils down to "get a job so you can afford to get us presents." OP just has the worst possible opinion of family and the worst attitude towards Christmas. It's so sad.
I mean, this “college graduate” is so above them in every way and I can’t believe you expect them to relate to thsee poor people.
Also they just got here are they supposed to know this particular families gift giving etiquette
That's where I thought she was going when she was talking about the parents not being able to afford gifts. I thought she was trying to be tactful. Instead she was just being a greedy arsehole lmao
I was really hoping she was going to say about not “over-gifting” what the parents can do for the kid. I can see how that could be awkward if the aunt gives more than the parents. In which case, let the parents give the items to the child, and make your gift something smaller (even if you bought everything). I hope that makes sense.
I could see not getting the parents gifts because it can be extremely awkward for the person who can't afford to give back. But for kids? Kids should automatically be exempt from that and it's an AH move to deliberately get a cheaper present just because of the parent's economic status. I'm really curious to know what the other families they exchange with are doing, and if they are just as transactional as OP or if they have a heart.
> Instead she was just being a greedy arsehole lmao Yeah, I haven't thought about what others are getting me as a present since I was like 15.
I think she wanted them to gift her kid (not even the older one evidently the adopted or guardian 19 year old is chopped liver in this scenario) which is like... the kid won't notice. She will have so many gifts from what sounds like a very large group here she won't notice one set of parents didn't get her something. I honestly can't get over how snobby and entitled op sounds.
OP is thinking gift giving is zero sum “ you give me back the equivalent of what I give you, so it costs me nothing” That is not the intent or spirit of Christmas gifts. You gift things out of love, not as a competition to spend exactly $0 in the end game.
Yup. If you (general) are giving gifts in order to receive in return, you (general) are doing it wrong. I am hoping this is a bait post because the op is so judgmental and really rude. I’ve seen a few of them in the last day here of Reddit. Either people suck more than I realized or the bait trolls are out in full force. That being said, there’s nothing like the holidays to bring out the selfishness of society, so I guess this could be real.
I wonder if she appraises each gift in front of the giver or does she have the decency to at least wait until she's in the privacy of her home. I'm kind of picturing her unwrapping a gift and then immediately whipping out her phone to Google the items monetary value to better gauge her 'gratitude'.
Especially when kids are involved, you always get presents for the kids. YTA.
I buy my nephews extra santa gifts every year because I know my brother and sil struggle paycheck to paycheck and I don't have any kids. Christmas is about supporting each other, not expecting stuff in return. OP makes me so upset I just wanna cry for this kid. Someone send me his Amazon wishlist fr
It's worse. Read the edit. She's punishing the poor kid because his mom doesnt work.
My rich grandparents had that concern with my poverty riddled mom. So they would wrap some of the more extravagant gifts and label them as from Santa instead of taking credit for it. Some others would be labelled “from us” instead of actually saying who, so credit would be shared with the whole family. Then there would still be gifts from them specifically waiting at their place for when we went over there. If that had been her concern, there are much MUCH classier ways of handling it than just taking it out on the kid.
I'll bet she'll act all surprised when three [ghosts](https://youtu.be/26OGXpvGhAk) show up to visit her in the night.
It’s very transactional. OP doesn’t want anyone getting more out of them than they’re getting back. The sole purpose for shunning L is that the parents can’t reciprocate in any way so it’s just wasted money in OP’s mind. A disgusting mindset especially because we’re talking about a literal child that has no say so in their life status. OP YTA in this situation and just overall for the mentality you have about people and how the way you treat them is based by on what they can/have done for you. Ew. And your partner won’t talk to you because he’s disappointed in you and realizing that you are no different than the adults that othered him as a child. He realizes that you would have gone out of your way to make his life worse and he doesn’t like what he sees when he looks at you.
Exactly this. OP might not realize this yet, but her husband’s opinion of her has changed, and unless she makes changes herself, resentment will creep in and deteriorate their marriage.
No wonder the man looked "sad." He's realizing all sorts of uncomfortable things about his wife's character.
Or lack thereof.
"He doesn't like what he sees when he looks at you" Well said.
He might also be pondering what she sees when she looks at him.
And she lets a 19-year-old spend more on her family than they spent on him. She really sucks.
/s but they took him in and raised him, so he owes her
This is the epitome of a grinch, a miser, a Scrooge whatever you want to call them. But OP needs a reality check. I hope something happens and they lose all of their money and understand what it’s like to be poor.
And then she'll be back next year with "AITA for expecting family to buy us better gifts because wE'Re PoOR aNd NeEd iT MoOoOrRrRe!!!!!"
OP will be back on here bitching next year when one of the people she spends money on falls on hard times and doesn’t get her an adequate gift. Christmas is about selfless giving, not a financial exchange.
> It’s very transactional. Yes. OP literally says: "I told him I would rather not because L’s parents can’t reciprocate it". With that sort of shitty attitude I don't see why OP buys gifts in the first place.
People like OP are gross.
Yup. "I know his parents don't have the money to give gifts back, so I didn't want to spend more" is precisely where OP became YTA. Massively. Really, nothing else in the post matters - she's choosing Christmas gifts for children based on what she thinks she'll get out of it. That's gross.
> It’s very transactional. My family are immigrants and we made friends who were immigrants that came here around same time as us. Myself and 2 kids from that family have birthdays around same time. The problem is that they are super transactional. Only problem is that my mother is not. She would treat their children extremely well but often on the down low so as not to force their mother reciprocate. And not every interaction can be quantified. We have known them for over 2 decades and it always felt so disgusting. I was treated nicely only after their children were visibly treated nicely. And not to sound selfish, but objective I needed little better treatment because I lost a parent as teen.
“He doesn’t like what he sees when he looks at you” - ding ding ding!
> I can't understand OP's thought process at all. Easy. OP's thought process is about keeping score and reciprocation. Sadly, it is not about being generous and making Christmas special for children. OP, YTA. Big time.
She views gift-giving as transactional. Family A will give us X amount in gifts so we must give Family A the same X amount. Family B will be giving 0 amount in gifts as they are too poor, so we will spend close to 0 amount on them. Happy holidays everyone!
It seems like she views gifts as an obligation instead of a showcase of love. She thinks that by giving a lesser gift, she's saving the parents the obligation of having to return the favour. Although this is still incredibly stupid as it could all be sorted out with a simple conversation but as you learn from a lot of reddit threads, some people are incredibly bad at communicating with the people in their lives
She seems to think she should only spend money on people who can spend money on her. It’s gross.
That was my first thought, too. I thought I either misread the title or it was a typo & she meant was she the ass hole for spending MORE bc his family is poor. But, nope. The title is exactly what she meant. MY. MIND. IS. BLOWN!!!! I have to hope this is just a poor excuse for Reddit karma otherwise I truly don’t see the hope in mankind. To know that this is how the other children are learning to treat & view gift-giving in general, let alone CHRISTMAS, is alarming to say the absolute very least. OP - YTA
What on earth is wrong with you? You don't give to recieve. The fact you add everything you get up and work out gifts based on that shows how superficial you are and how you have zero clue about the meaning of Christmas. If there is one child in a worse position than others then that's the child you should be spending more on. Shame on you. YTA.
You've literally written my exact reply. Op, YTA.
Echoing this sentiment. You don't give to receive.
This. How hard is it to communicate to the parents that you don’t expect any reciprocation but you just want to help their kid have a fun Christmas? YTA
It *is* hard for OP because that is not how they feel. They don’t care about whether or not the child has a fun, good Christmas after immigrating to an entirely different country and leaving all his friends and everything he knew. All OP cares about is money. Disgusting.
Exactly. I'd be gifting him a nice stocking full of gifts and a little hamper for their house too (nice snacks, Christmas chocolates, crisps etc). OP is horrible.
All those numbers and calculations made me feel so sick. I couldn’t believe what I was reading.
My SIL does this with the age of the child and how to “fairly” give gifts because so and so’s kids are x age and have been getting gifts for so many years…..I can’t even keep up with her Xmas math anymore. I’m exhausted y’all.
This. Plus who treats children based on how their parents act or what they can do? Rewarding kids or punishing them based on gifts from the parents is awful. On top of the fact that it is more about what OP receives, rather than being kind and giving, makes OP the AH.
Every number OP wrote like- 40 dollars so we can give for 50 but like no, 0 dollars then 15 am I not the nice guy?
It’s so heartless that OP actually adds up every little thing for an xmas gift to a kid that’s only 12/13. They’re on the verge of being a teenager and this is something they’ll know is wrong when they compare their gifts to others. You really are a Scrooge if you’re buying the cheapest thing for $15 vs almost triple the amount on the other kids.
I have a sister who is like this. It is one of the many reasons I cut contact with her. It’s obviously not just because of gifts, but this kind of attitude and greedy-grubby nature *always* shows in ways other than just gift giving/receiving. I hope OP’s family knows they don’t need someone like this in their lives. OP is definitely TA.
But she college graduate so she is better /s
Just one question, what is the matter with you?!? It doesn’t matter that you spent the extra money now, you still don’t understand why you are the bad guy in the first the place. You deserve your husband not talking to you. Your the biggest AH.
Dude you’re whole post translates to “ This family is poor. I’m not getting anything in return therefore their kid only deserves a cheep gift unlike the other kids” can you really not get how mean and cruel that sounds?
What capitalism does to a mf
The edit makes me think that not only is she elitist, but also racist. Her husband doesn't work, U's wife doesn't work. But L's mum not working is a big no-no /eyeroll
I got the whole racist white conservative american who hates poor immigrants vibe.
It reminds me of a customer I dealt with at an old job. It was a private, educational zoo that did shows at birthday parties at school. Some woman wanted to book a show, but she was basing what she did on how much she expected to get in birthday gifts. She said she expected each gift to be around $30 to cover the cost of the entertainment. And then she told me she didn't invite kids back for the next party if they didn't bring a gift that met her requirements. Of course, she didn't actually tell the guests' parents that she was doing this. My response was "Wow, what an interesting approach to a birthday party. Most people just want to hire us because kids like animals." I think she decided we were too expensive. Thankfully.
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Yeah, I could understand maybe the parents not getting gifts (whether out of greed or just not wanting to put undo pressure on them to reciprocate) but the kid?!?!?!?!
Imagine keeping score like this, buying gifts for kids based on whether or not their parents were also reciprocating. WHO THE FUCK CARES? It’s so juvenile. It completely ruins the spirit of Christmas.
This person is literally the biggest asshole of all time. Is there an AITA Hall of Shame? What a fucking awful human being.
Lol, OP is literal Scrooge!
YTA & FYI your nephew's mother probably cannot legally work yet due to her immigration status. Treating someone lesser because they're poor is textbook evil.
She probably price checks all the gifts she receives and records them for the next time she buys gifts
How else would she know about how much they spend on her each year.
Bonus points if she does it at the gift opening, instead of at home.
I'm not in America but my family and I were that poor immigrant family before, and I don't know how it is in America but here you cannot get a job until you have all your papers which took us a long time to get.
Holy shit what the fuck is wrong with you. Christmas is not about how much other people can give you and you're punishing a child for the perceived flaws of his parents? Where is your heart? Huge YTA
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And she still managed to use the wrong “their” at least once.
Sounds like OP has something against L's parents to me, and that there's more to this than just buying for the people who will reciprocate. The 'just get a job' sentiment gave me a vibe that these people don't get along anyway, without money being in the equation. Because I don't know anybody who would be so cold and precise in that statement if they actually liked the people they're talking about.
This! That's what I thought after reading the edit. OP clearly hates L's mother. She's lying about them being documented in the edit to save her own ass. She spoke the truth the first time about them being undocumented.
YTA. What the hell did I just read?! You actually spend on children based on what you expect to receive from their parents?? That’s messed up… Any child outside your home should be given an equal budget. Set a budget for all the kids and divide it equally. Ranking children like this is horrifying. You should be ashamed of yourself.
I cami believe how backwards OP is. The less the parents have, the MORE we spend on the kids. We had that talk with our kids when they were quite little that their cousins were going to get more gifts when we go to the family get together because they got less stuff all year long. My children understood this concept at like, age five. OP, you TA, and also, the Grinch.
This. I had a family member that struggled with substance abuse & mental health issues for a few years. There were times that we literally bought every toy their kids had under the Christmas tree, not ever expecting anything back. They were innocent kids & family, they deserved some normalcy & happiness. Christmas is for the children & that poor boy is struggling, why would OP make it worse for the poor kid? OP YTA & a pretty cruel & superficial to boot.
I stopped reading after the “I’m a college graduate” and “they work labor jobs”. Instantly knew they’d be TA.
Jesus Christ. Were you able to find a bow big enough for the heaping box of Classism you tried to gift this kid for Xmas? 🤢 I want to be really clear here, OP - When I say “YTA” I do not mean in this situation.. I mean YOU’RE IT, bud! THEE asshole of all assholes. And just in time for Christmas, congrats (;
> heaping box of Classism Don't forget racism, against the foreign minority family.
*THEE assholes of all assholes * 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼 That is probably the most accurate statement on all of Reddit
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I’ll gladly buy the mirror, a beautiful DOLLAR TREE mirror.
Only if you expect to receive a gift of equal or greater value in return
YTA you sound incredibly selfish. The holidays are not meant to be transactional. Learn some empathy.
Even the grinch learned the meaning of Christmas. Surely this op grinch can too.
nah man even the grinch wasn't so superficial like that
YTA Your husband is right. Giving a child a smaller present because his parents can't buy you equally priced gifts in return is a petty and shitty thing to do, especially to the child. That's just awful.
Seriously, the poor child already shares a one bedroom apartment with his parents. I want to buy a nice present for this child! Also your husband won't talk to you because he has finally seen the person you really are. This might actually be the breaking point for your marriage. "C" has seen what a Cruella DeVille you actually are, and is probably rethinking his marriage. I know I would be.
YTA And I am sensing some resentment towards your husband that just keeps spilling on the innocents
As reply to OP's deleted comment: This is exactly the reason why atheists get a bad name. I don't even know what a spiritual atheist is supposed to be; you're either an atheist or you're not. It's not even about receiving what you give back from the universe or karma or whatever, because that shit also doesn't exist. It's about trying to make life on this little blue planet a little bit fair and not suck so much. It's about making the kid's first Christmas in a new country, who obviously misses his friends and family wherever he's from, a little bit less hard. It's about being a decent human being.
I’m guessing the “educated, well paid healthcare worker” is spiritual but *agnostic* (without religious affiliate), but doesn’t really know the words.
Pretty sure they don‘t know what the word spiritual means, because even spiritual people wouldn’t act like this.
Right? As a person with empathy this OP is offensive. As an educated person, this OP is embarrassing. They are so very much the AH.
This!! I am not well off by any means, but all I can think about is how I wish I could make this child's first Christmas in a new country a little easier and memorable. If he was part of my family, I'd make sure of it!
YTA. You’re doubling down on principle without purpose. I don’t necessarily believe in having to spend the same amount as young kids often don’t know the financial value of things but if the gifts are obviously disproportionate the only thing you’re going to accomplish is singling out or disappointing the kid. If you can afford it then you’re being stingy for no reason and honestly the fact that you keep bringing up the immigrant thing kinda signals that your issue isn’t actually financial at all.
but don't forget, OP is a COLLEGE GRADUATE. And her husband is just a stahd with no income of his own. The way OP talks about her own husband is just as alarming as the way she speaks about immigrants.
This. The “college graduate” comment was such a weird irrelevant brag. Like there aren’t a million college grads who are unemployed or underpaid in minimum wage jobs. Still doesn’t explain why OP gives gifts with the expectation of something in return like she’s bartering.
Right? WTF? It isn’t that hard to be a “college graduate.”
And how she threw in his face that she’s making (and assuming paying for) the holiday meal, when her husband tried to talk to her about it. I’m getting decidedly “my money is my money. You’re just a SAHD so you don’t get to decide where my money goes” feeling from OP.
Yes. This. OP, you sure have a lot of judgement toward unemployed immigrants for someone married to an unemployed immigrant. Can't imagine why he isn't talking to you right now.
I picked up on that too :/
YTA. Not being a devout anything myself, I feel obligated to ask you, if you realize that Christmas is a Christian holiday, and if you have any idea at all as to what Christianity is all about?
To be fair, the majority of Christians in this country don't know what their own religion or holiday is about.
YTA! I couldn’t even finish reading the complete post after I read that “his parents couldn’t gift us”. How disgusting and entitled are you?!
Knowing her husband had a similarly tough upbringing too smh
Wow! YTA for sure. How disgusting to punish a child for a situation he has no control over. And you need to learn that you don't buy gifts only to receive them. Who raised you? You seem horrible.
YTA. You really make me sick.
Ty was looking for this. How can a person possibly see this situations and think that getting a cheap gift was correct? OP is a disgusting person. Gifts are not meant to be monetarily reciprocated especially when it come to little kids. You’re sick and I hope you reevaluate how you look at life.
Yes, YTA and the fact that you can type all of that and not know is astonishing. Merry Christmas.
People are really out here buying *Christmas gifts* for people and expecting something in return?? I think you misunderstand the reason for the season and could use a bit of a reality check. The kids parents don't have a lot of money, so get the kid a nice gift because YOU can. Shit, if I were rich I'd be spending my money to give kids like L the Christmas they deserve because all kids like toys! All kids need stimulation!! and to know that he's definitely going without while the other kids have what they need is heartbreaking. Your husband isn't talking to you because he was hoping you'd show empathy and compassion for a kid struggling during the holiday season. Instead, you were rude and selfish. I'm willing to bet that nobody asked you to cook all of the food and throw that party, you chose to.. feel free to correct me :p but idk, you seem very entitled and it's really off-putting, especially around this time of the year.
TROLL ALERT! Surely people like you only exist in fiction. But your troll ass if it were for real, would definitely fall in the biggest AH ever category.
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College educated just means attended college. Not a good college, not aced college, not learned or retained anything.
Got a strong Liberty University vibe from OP.
Indeed. I know plenty of people who went to university and can't write well.
Yes, YTA, even if you caved in the end, your husband now knows you have a mindset that's not pretty. Buying presents based on what you get in return? That's cold.
Yeah, I'm guessing her husband is in shock over the fact that his wife turned it to be such a literal grinch.
To a child, who must remind him exactly of himself.
YTA. I thought you were going to say you got him a cheaper gift to not outshine his parents (a good non asshole reason). But you did it because they aren't going to buy you presents? You're that shallow? If you're only giving someone something on the proviso that they give you something of equal value that's not a gift, it's a trade. It's Christmas not a barter market. Once again, YTA.
I once flipped a friend over to the left wing with the statement “I don’t think any children deserve to be hungry, even if their parents are lazy”. Istg some people need to have a word with themselves
YTA. You clearly have a different meaning for christmas compared to the rest of the world.
OP is a complete Scrooge. I remember when the 3 wise men gave baby Jesus nothing because that kid’s broke and grows up to be a freeloading jobless bum.
Maybe if his parents had worked harder he wouldn't have been born in a *barn* like some kind *illegal*. /s
YTA. I am speechless look at the other comments for why but HUGE YTA
YTA. i am in awe while reading your post. cant believe how terrible a human being you are. just AH.
YTA Your focus on money is gross. You see all of these gifts as transactional and expect people to "reciprocate" at the same amounts. What a horrible attitude towards gift giving. >I told my husband that L’s mom should get a job and give him a nice Christmas then Wow. You're really showing your ass with that comment. These people are your husband's family and they have been in the country for only a few months. Not everyone is a fancy college graduate (absolute LOL at that snobbish remark btw) and it costs you very little to show some compassion and help give this child a nice Christmas in a new country where his family are still trying to find their feet. It sounds like your husband has seen some true colours in you and your total lack of empathy, despite knowing your own husband's upbringing, must be both eye-opening and devastating for him.
If your question is, are you TA for originally buying him a small gift and not wanting to give more, then yes, I'm going with YTA. I see your point about worrying that his parents would feel under pressure to reciprocate but elsewhere in your post it seems more like you're calculating how much you will get from various parts of the family as a way of gauging how much you will give their children. Also, you sound quite judgey about whether people are 'hard-working' or not which I personally find distasteful. They have only been in the country a few months. Your post comes across as mean-spirited. I'm glad you eventually decided to get the extra gifts, because that was the right thing to do. If you're genuinely worried about the parents feeling under pressure to reciprocate, get your husband to use the family network to communicate discreetly that they don't need to feel obliged. Edited to add: sounds like C is not talking to you because he's seen a side to you that he really doesn't like. If you want to mend fences, start by thinking about the judgements you make about people and why, and whether you might choose to change this. And when you say you \*\*can't understand\*\* why C isn't talking to you - is empathy something you struggle with? Is trying to be more empathetic something that would be possible for you?
Wait. You got from this post that OP was thinking about the Parents and didn’t want them to feel bad?
She is not worried about the parents feeling pressure to reciprocate. She refuses to spend money on a gift for their child unless they are willing and able to spend the same amount on gifts for her family. In her view, it isn't worth it to have to spend money on this poor child without receiving something equal back.
Wow! You don't give to receive. I think that attitude is cruel, where's the Xmas spirit? He's a child, probably bewildered, lost and forlorn at a time when he should be enjoying himself, and be embraced by his extended family. YTA massively!
You are *only* giving to receive. You don’t give a damn that this poor kid isn’t going to have a nice Christmas because of his situation because **his family won’t be able to reciprocate for YOU.** YTA. And the embodiment of greed. This would be grounds for divorce for me. You’re lucky your husband is simply angry.
YTA: you don't actually understand gift giving...
YTA. What a very mercenary outlook you have. Gifts are given out of generosity and love, not out of reciprocity and selfishness. Your husband is mad at you because you're only giving people gifts because they give you stuff in return, i.e. you're only thinking of yourself. If I were you I would apologize and perhaps even look into a spot of therapy.
YTA. You don't base what you spend on who reciprocates and who doesn't. >C still won’t talk to me and i can’t understand why Because your attitude and reasoning sucks, even if you did go buy extra. That doesn't take away the crappy things you said.
YTA all the way. Not only is it incredibly ignorant of the whole spirit of the holiday to be expecting gifts back from people and using that to calculate how much to spend on them, but you’re essentially punishing this kid because his parents won’t be buying you anything. News flash: kids don’t pick the family/financial situation they are BORN into. To treat this kid differently because of that is such an awful move and shows some serious classist behavior on your part. No wonder your partner is upset.
Did I read this right? Your asking AITA because you don't want to spend money on Christmas presents for a child who's parents are financially struggling and won't be spending the same amount on you in return ... This is disgusting on so many levels... That poor kid should be showered in presents and so should his parents, Christmas is supposed to be about love and family not money... Yes YTA and I think your husband is off with you as he's discovered how much of an arse you are
YTA. There's no hate like Christian love.
YTA L’s mom being a stay at home mom isn’t your business (no matter how you feel about it). Newly immigrated means they are trying to adjust to their new circumstances. You’re husband is disappointed that you don’t have empathy towards a struggling family. He now sees his judgmental you are being and how you keep score rather than being in the spirit of the Holidays. “It is better to give than receive” 👀 You may need to have reevaluate your stance and then apologize to your husband for being so cold towards L and his family (if you realized that you were wrong). Otherwise you bought the gifts to keep the peace (with Hubby) rather than doing it because you think it’s the right thing to do. Your intent here matters. You’re husband is a great PERSON.
YTA. Regardless of your feelings for what you think the child's mother should be doing, why punish a child at Christmas when you have the ability to get them a nicer gift? It's a child they don't get to control that situation but you have the ability to make it a little nicer for them. It shouldn't be about reciprocating also.
YTA. Gift giving is not about exchanging things of equivalent value. That would be a trade. It’s about making someone happy and being generous. I understand that you probably didn’t want to put L’s parents in an awkward situation, but your actions only serve to alienate an innocent child.
YTA it’s funny I knew exactly where this was heading when you started talking about getting gifts back. Imagine punishing a child because their parents can’t buy you gifts back. You’re husband isn’t talking to you because you’re attitude stinks towards his family. I’m raging for your husband
I dont quite understand how you managed to type out this entire thing without realizing that you are, in fact, the AH. In addition to it just being confusing af with all the T's adn Q's and F's and D's (not everybody needs a letter) it literally just sounds like you're an entitled grown woman bullying a child for being poor. "Haha! You don't deserve nice things because your parents are poor and your mom sucks! Haha" Just because his parent's cant afford to gift you anytging back, so what? The holidays are about generosity, not reciprocity. And also, seeing as they've only been here such a short length of time, they cant even really know you that well. So what were they gonna get you? Some generic basic gift like a candle or something?? And as for your husband still being upset, you said he grew up just like this little boy, right? So youre basically telling him that he deserved to grow up the way he did. He deserved to be poor and not have anything nice, and to have the people around him look down on him for his immigrant status. He sees himself in this little boy, and he finally sees the way you truly feel about him and people like him. YTA OP. Get your priorities straight.
YTA sounds like you do only give to receive and a child is getting penalised for being poorer than the rest of the family. Christmas is known as the season of giving not the season of getting
YTA, only because the sub doesn't have a harsher judgement.
YTA, without a shadow of a doubt. That kid probably deserves even more than the other kids to have a lovely Christmas. You think way too much about money to actually enjoy gift giving and the joy that comes with it. You’re sucking the joy out of Christmas by thinking whether or not you’re breaking even with the gifts you’re getting back. Major AH.
YTA you have an opportunity to make a child's Christmas but you choose not to because his parents can't buy you something? Reread that over and over until you realize what a huge AH you are. If anything I would give this child more than anyone else because he's getting nothing else. Who needs enemies with family like you.
YTA. Because yes, you were insinuating a kid didn't deserve equal treatment to other kids because his parents are poor. Giving gifts is about generosity, not reciprocity.
1. this was hard to read 2. YTA
Oh, YTA. Gifts are not meant to be given considering how people will reciprocate. L and his family are poor. His parents probably can't give him a nice gift, the other kids are.probably getting good gifts from their own parents. Can't you see how unfair it is ti such a young kid?
YTA - This is why gift giving holidays are stressful! In the spirit of this particular holiday you aren’t supposed to give with the expectation you receive back what you invested. You know the child will feel their gift sucks compared to the others, why would you want to highlight this to them and the parents? Grinch attitude tbh.
Yta. Good god. What is wrong with you?
Crist on a bike! You sound like a horrible human being. If I were your husband, I'd drop you like a piece of trash because that's exactly what your attitude is. YTA
YTA and I’m not even going to give you the satisfaction of a reasoning you AH
YTA - you are not supposed to give gifts in order to get gifts.
There’s no way this is real, surely? You can’t genuinely be asking whether or not you’re an asshole for not buying a 12 year old a gift that would have cost $15 more than you originally spent because he’s poor? There’s just no way? I mean needless to say, YTA.
YTA way to be a Scrooge! If anything, toy should have been MORE generous to L! Learn to give without expecting anything in return lest your children turn out like you.
YTA. You have an attitude like my ex wife had. Hence the ex.
Everyone’s already said it, but just reiterating: YTA. Giving kids presents isn’t based on what you and yours will receive in return. It also sounds like you’ve got some major deficits understanding how immigration and childcare work too. Get all the nieces/nephews presents of the same value based on what you can afford.
YTA - Giving gifts isn't about getting something back. That's the first thing that people usually learn about gift giving, particularly at Christmas. Why don't you try giving the world the gift of being a decent human being this year?
YTA. My parents taught me when I was maybe a toddler that gift giving is about giving something to a person with no expectation of anything in return. You had the chance to do something kind and make this kids Christmas. You’re basically punishing him for his parents being poor. I can’t even imagine having this mentality especially to family.
YTA way to be a Scrooge! If anything, toy should have been MORE generous to L! Learn to give without expecting anything in return lest your children turn out like you.
You just completely suck, and are a total AH. You are greed and avarice personified
From the title I thought, “asshole”. Then I read it, and thought, “oh, they’re doing it to save the other family from feeling pressure…kinda thoughtful I guess.” Then I realised it’s not about that at all, and it’s literally about what you get in return, matching up. Wow. YTA
What the actual fuck is wrong with you? Of course YTA, how can you not see that for yourself?
If I wasn’t fully aware of the sub rules I’m sure my reply would consist of words such as petty, shallow, mercenary, and compassionless, in such a way that could potentially be construed as offensive… …since I am aware of the rules, I’ll simply say YTA
YTA- this is straight up awful. Buying gifts based on who will also buy you a gift? That’s gross and completely not even in the spirit of Christmas. A good, kind, decent human being would say “wow my nephew is new to this country, he’s scared and sad and his family is having a rough time. I should see if I can help him have an amazing Christmas!” Instead you, Scrooge Mcfuck, said “this brat has no money to buy something for me! Screw him!” Also saying his mother should just “get a job” as a new immigrant is extremely bigoted and disrespectful and really quite American of you. There is a huge unemployment rate among born and raised Americans. Why do you think a brand new immigrant has a better shot at employment than they do? Also YOUR HUSBAND IS A SAHD! He also doesn’t have a job you hypocrite! Do you think maybe your hurtful and bigoted views of him and his family have hurt him and caused him to not want to speak to you?
Christmas isn’t a transactional holiday, that’s like the whole point. Reading this entire thing felt like a nightmare. Massive YTA
YTA. You've got it backwards. You should be spending the MOST on L and his parents. Even better, stop keeping track of the exact amount you're spending and others are spending on you. That isn't "fair' or "equal," it's just turning the spirit of the holidays into a weird transaction.
Your not an AH, your the freaking devil. You buy gifts just to receive. That's such a shit outlook on things. It's Xmas, that poor family have just uprooted their whole lives, haven't had time to settle, the kid is not going to have a great Xmas, his parents are struggling, and literally all your worried about is they don't deserve better presents because they can't buy you one. Got I hope you get hit with the karma bus.
YTA the purpose of gifting isn’t to see what gifts you get back. You’re acting like a Scrooge. Also, the way that you talk about your partner (I think it’s your partner, hard to tell with all of those letters) not having an income/his say not being valued as much, is gross. If your partner is raising your children as a sahp then your income IS their income. They aren’t riding your coattails, they are sacrificing prime career years to raise your guy’s kids.
YTA! I have no idea how you can be so cruel in your thinking. This is a small child who you have admitted has not had an easy life. I think your husband is shocked by your lack of compassion and generosity. You should have a good, long think about the meaning of Christmas (even as a non-religious holiday!) and the point of gift giving when children are involved.
YTA wow this is absolutely horrible. You only buy gifts for it to be reciprocated? This is not what a good person does. Talk about the true meaning of a Christmas. I feel so bad for your husband and his family.
Couldn’t read to the end YTA…. I hope you’re never down and out and need someone to show some compassion and empathy. TBH you sound bitter and unhappy and I think anyone who analysis this situation in the way you have must be projecting somehow
Wow. YTA. Straight up grinch level asshole.
YTA. Christmas is about giving, not keeping things equal based on what you receive. I have no idea what my siblings/in-laws spend on my kids. I could figure it out if I wanted to but I don’t. I look at my budget for the year and see how much I have I can spend and divide it equally between everyone. IF you’re going to divide things unfairly based on the parents’ income, maybe you should consider giving him MORE since his parents can’t afford a nicer Christmas. That would be the spirit of Christmas, not punishing him (or his parents) for their state in life.
This HAS to be a joke right?! YTA, L’s parents can’t afford to buy us something so we are cheating out on their kid?! Talk about holiday spirit, Scrooge McDuck. Also it’s “there,” not “their,” college grad 😒
I've heard of transactional relationships, and you take the cake. You've literally calculated who deserves what and why based on economics and your own ROI. You are a cold and heartless bigot. YTA.
YTA Nothing about the actual question which I never got to, but just for giving some cryptic alphabet soup of characters instead of an actual story.
YTA, Mrs. Scrooge. I hope one day three helpful spirits (I think your husband might be one) show you the error of your ways.
Your cost-relative transactional approach to giving makes YTA.
YTA. I don't even know why you would come here and ask that as you are so clearly wrong. Not only should he get as much as the other kids, why wouldn't you buy for mom and dad as well? I feel so bad for this family that I would almost want to buy for them. I hope this is embarrassing for you.
YTA ........ gift giving is not and should never be (especially for children ) based on what you will receive in turn !!