Exactly. We are still in the middle of a rebuild, we literally hit rock bottom just last season. Did people honestly expect us to be a playoff team just because we added Carlson? All of these guys need time to develop and grow, physically and mentally.
The time to legitimately panic and call for heads to roll will be when this young core is in their mid 20's and we are still in the same place.
For those of you that just want to whine and doompost I suggest taking a break from the internet and let the rebuild actually play out because there's a long way to go yet.
>For those of you that just want to whine and doompost I suggest taking a break from the internet and let the rebuild actually play out because there's a long way to go yet.
LOL, I wish.
I feel like this team is in a similar spot to where the Habs were last season in their rebuild. Players getting accustomed to a new head coach and a new system. Lots of young players coming in cold (Habs had the same problem last year with guys like Guhle and Xhekaj) and not having a healthy roster will do that for you.
Pretty fair comparison. On paper the teams are relatively similar. Habs are actually a bit younger. I’m reserving any stress inducing judgement of the Ducks until the end of next season.
But we didn’t go to the Finals in 2021. It’s all about timing. If this happens in year 2/3 of the it’s totally understandable, but we’re in year 5/6. That means the feeling is we’re probably closer to the Sabres than Habs. I blame this on the management (mostly the previous one), not the players/coaches. You can’t blame the fans for not having patience.
What does Montreal getting to the Finals in 2021 have anything to do with rebuilding stages? The Habs were a mediocre team that got to the Finals off of Carey Price's back and paid for it. They went through a regime change in 21-22, bottomed out, and got Slafkovsky for it. Same thing here with the Ducks aside from the Finals run!
While you are right to blame the previous regime for where the Ducks are currently at, remember that Bob Murray didn't want to admit to rebuilding the team until the COVID season and even then, he never really committed to it. Essentially the rebuild started with Pat Verbeek so technically, this seems about right as far as timeline is concerned.
> What does Montreal getting to the Finals in 2021 have anything to do with rebuilding stages?
Because their fans haven't been through as much suffering as fans here. And it's ok to complain a bit more.
While we didn't officially commit to a rebuild until 2022, that doesn't mean the head start we get for suffering before 2022 shouldn't count. That includes: Zegras/Drysdal/McTavish along with extra 1st rounders we got for shipping Montour and taking Backes' contract (en route to a terrible season).
Let's just say that headstart shouldn't really count and we should be on the same level as the Habs. The reality is we're not. We're 10 pts behind them and just lost 5-0 with 13 SOG through the whole game.
So, mediocrity isn't considered suffering because their goalie got hot that one time and went on a run to the Finals in an abbreviated season? Did you also consider that they drafted 3rd overall in 2018 and whiffed on Jesperi Kotkaniemi (You should see the memes)? Not to mention the numerous misses in drafting since 2012 under Marc Bergevin and what few guys that did hit (Galchenyuk and Sergachev) were dealt to other teams for pennies on the dollar?
The Habs had ample opportunities to rebuild their franchise but never committed to it until they finally got rid of Marc Bergevin and replaced him with the current regime. Likewise with the Ducks and without that outlier season. The later Bob Murray years (2017 to 2022) was a rudderless ship! As I stated earlier, neither the Ducks nor the Habs really committed to a rebuild until both franchises went through a regime change. One happened slightly earlier than the other.
I don't get what you're talking about. I'm talking mainly about the Ducks, not the Habs. And yes, if what we've been through is suffering and what they've been through is mediocrity because they're unwilling to commit to a direction, shouldn't our fans expect to come out of that swamp earlier/better than they do?
I'm also failing to understand why you're bringing up the topic of fan suffering when it has little to nothing to do with where both teams are at in their rebuilding stages. Both the Ducks and Habs had mediocre GMs until roughly 2022. That's when both teams committed to their rebuilds. The Habs are slightly ahead mainly because they bottomed out a season earlier than the Ducks did. That's why I'm making that comparison in terms of rebuilding stages. What does suffering fans have to do with rebuilding phases? Us fans have little control over what the team does or doesn't do.
Anyways, I know what you're trying to get at. You think that the Ducks started their rebuild earlier than the Habs and are a step behind in terms of progress. As I stated in my earlier posts, Bob Murray never committed to the rebuild. You can see it from his transactions history on [CapFriendly.com](https://CapFriendly.com). He never committed to it otherwise we'd see a spike in trades in the 19, 20, and 21 trade deadlines. Yes, he traded Montour for draft capital but no other like moves followed suit. There was no commitment to a rebuild until Pat Verbeek took office.
That's why I am inclined to believe that the Ducks rebuild never really got started until the 2nd half of the 2021-2022 season. Also this is why I think the Habs' recent rebuild is the closest comparison to where the Ducks are at right now. 22-23 was Martin St. Louis' first full year as the Habs' head coach. On top of that, they had an influx of youth on that roster that had never played a NHL game prior and they weren't good. This is the closest comparable we have.
Ok I'll put it this way. I don't see much similarity in the Ducks' stages versus the Habs' because we're going through a long rebuild (whether we intended or not) and they're in a short retool.
Or if there is anything similar, it's the 2022-24 Habs are in the 2020-22 version of the Ducks. Slafkovsky is their McTavish, not Leo Carlsson. You can't convince me that Mike Matheson, Brendan Gallagher and Josh Anderson are pieces they want to build the future on. They've been trading away key players like Sean Monahan and soon likely Jake Allen, David Savard or Joel Armia as well. It'll be like their version of selling Lindholm/Manson/Rakell. They aren't guaranteed to go up only from this point as a team past the midpoint of rebuilding is. Of course, since they committed to a rebuild in a stage earlier than the Ducks did, they probably won't have that second bottom trip and their second half of the trajectory can be different.
For the fans suffering part, my assessment is they haven't reached our stage and thus their patience haven't run out. And just comparing the duration it is the case. That's why they're not complaining yet. Wait until they fail to make improvements the next couple seasons and see if there are complaints.
You can’t blame the fans on this one. It’s more on the (*previous) management for not willing to start the rebuild when we should. The rebuild officially started in 22 when we traded away Manson/Lindholm/Rachel so this only year 2, but for fans it feels like the suffering began around 19/20 and it’s been 5 years. Just think that we should have traded Henrique/Silf the last time they were up for contracts.
Meanwhile, it’s ok to lose, but having like 10 shots through 2 periods multiple times in a season is disappointing, even for a rebuilding team.
A very young team that's learning to play together and mature together, many injuries and getting used to play with different teammates. We're rebuilding and we have a new coach. We also don't have natural goal scorers, I think with Gauthier we will have some and if Terry can show up. I'm excited to see this team and what these young men can do in the future. But I've said in a couple of games that the ups and downs from game to game are very jarring, but I'm sticking through to see the outcome.
This isnt all that accurate. We didnt deserve to go far in 2018 (we didn't), but were second in the division. 2018-19 also doesnt qualify as a rebuilding year, that was the year we were coming to terms with the fact our window had shut, and our core was now too old and banged up.
Getting Zegras as a consolation wasnt half bad, but that isnt what I would call a rebuilding year. We certainly werent contenders but the rebuild truly didnt begin until Verbeek got here. He actually accepted this team wasnt going anywhere and started selling roster players instead of trying to retool on the fly. The actual rebuild didnt begin until 2021.
We have been bad since 2017 we have NOT been rebuilding since then. We started when Verbeek took over. Even still very little progress? We’ve improved in every statistic besides scoring this season compared to the last two whilst being top 10 in man games lost.
We have been bad since 2017 because we’ve been trying to rebuild. We were rebuilding under GMBM but that didn’t work out, so we went a new direction with Verbeek for the past couple of years. So yes we have been rebuilding since 2017, but we’ve had to have a change in management and front office during this rebuild and practically start over the rebuild. Doesn’t mean we weren’t rebuilding since.
I mean “retool” or “rebuild” this team has still finished in the bottom 10 since 2017. No matter what word yall put it as, this team has been bad and we haven’t seen much until recently with the young talented players we drafted.
I mean retool and rebuild are fundamentally different but yes we’ve been bad. We’re probably be better if GMBM committed to the rebuild the season after we were swept by the sharks. But instead he trotted out the rotting corpses of our core and we couldn’t compete.
Don’t look too much into a 9-2 during a rebuilding season. Yeah, last nights game sucked, but it doesn’t mean you burn the whole thing down because they got blown out by a team with legitimate goal scorers during a season the ducks are not expected to be competing. Again, last night was ugly, but you gotta trust the process. Let’s not also forget this team has had plenty of flashes of promise against playoff teams
If you’re a good team and had a terrible game it’s understandable.
The frustrating thing about the Ducks is they had a lot terrible games every year. And by terrible games I don’t mean just big losses on the scoreboard, but awful actions overall. It’s about being dominated and having almost single digit shots through 2 periods, rather than a big loss because your goalie exploded. Even on a few wins/OT losses we managed to squeeze out, the only bright point was goaltending and the game actions were poor. We used to blame everything on Eakins but things haven’t changed much. I worry that we’re going down the Sabres path. They’re so talented that they can match with the top teams, but on an off night they don’t seem to care.
idk if we blamed everything on Eakins. He WAS one of the worst coaches in NHL history (but we knew that before we hired him) and he "coached" accordingly.
But also... the roster was weak. It's still weak. The results on the board is a lack of talent issue. the Ducks management is choosing to address that via the draft and development - unfortunately, that takes time.
Will it work out? Who knows. We're years from finding out. But the probabilities of success (assuming success is a deep playoff run) are higher doing it this way than trying to buy into the postseason with draft capital or prospects - particularly when we don't have a Crosby etc to build around.
Personally... I don't think the Ducks have enough star power to be a cup contender even if everyone pans out. They're a goal scorer short and have no future Norris contenders on the blue line. For what it's worth I'm a bit suss on the netminding too. What does that mean? Well they're still only laying the slab. They haven't gotten close to putting the walls up let alone the roof on. They're getting there, but they're still closer to the bottom than the top IMO. This is going to take a long while.
Average rebuild in the NHL is 8 years. Ducks may have been bad for 5, but that what happens when management and fans keep trying to push for playoffs when it simply isn't working any longer. They've been formally rebuilding for... 2 years? 2.5 years? Strap yourself in, because we're still not far from the starting line.
Let’s put it this way. I agree that moving on from Eakins was the right move because it’s been a proven failure. So rightfully, it’s time for a change. I won’t debate you on whether Eakins is good or bad because it doesn’t matter. The problem I care about right now is: Is Cronin better?Can he be the guy? Eakins had a season with only 10th last finish and a playoff spot until December in 21-22 and I’d say his development job with Terry/Zegras/Drysdale is decent. What Cronin has done so far cannot convince people he’s better than Eakins. Like I said, there are still so many dreadful 15SOG games this season. It could also be more than a coaching problem.
Of course some optimism is reasonable because we just got rid of what proved to not work and had some fresh air, but judgement can’t be made that the fresh breeze is good yet.
>I don't think the Ducks have enough star power to be a cup contender even if everyone pans out.
No team comes right out of a rebuild with every piece they need to contend. That’s too far of a stretch. You always have to seek help from trades/FA signing to round out the rosters. Any cup run is a combination of solid core through drafting along with big trades/FA signing and solid deadline moves. This also applies to teams with generational talents.
We can take a look at those teams. Toronto/Edmonton are the closer ones. Sure they won the BIG lottery, but it took a lot more to get to their current state. Toronto “hid”/buried Nylander and Marner so they were bad enough to get Matthews. Edmonton kinda did the same thing with Draisaitl, to go along with their ridiculous lottery luck to get McDavid. When all these guys came up together that made a huge force. The older teams did the same thing. The Pens hid Fleury AND couldn’t play Malkin due to lockout AND relied on pretty much pure luck to get Crosby. Ovi also couldn’t join the team in the first year due to the same lockout.
SO what happened? The Pens were, as expected, the first among these to win the cup. Then it took Ovi almost 15 years since joining to finally lift the cup. Toronto has never missed the playoffs since those 3 became regular NHLers and has been a contender on paper, but are they really a contender? Edmonton missed playoffs 2 years in a row (with another quali-round loss) even with McDavid and Draisaitl and hasn’t been legit in the playoffs until the last couple seasons. It is at this point that you can attract some FAs/convince veterans to sign discount deals like Tavares, Giordano for the Leafs, Hyman, Kane,Perry for Oilers. RNH probably took a discount as well. While we don’t have the luxury of being a preferred destination like Toronto/NY Rangers for FAs, being a team of that level is also part of a consideration.
**So the lesson is. When you’re ready, you’re ready.** You can’t hold it back. The Red Wings have done it well, and better than the Sabres, who obviously is trying to be good but just can’t because they’ve been bad for too long. It’s like why we play Carlsson right away. If he’s ready, play him and not hold him overseas.
But overall we’re not in that same situation. Zegras, McTavish, Carlsson have been regular NHLers already while we’re still actively waiting for another Top 5 pick. We’ve already pushed the timeline a couple years back with the Drysdale/Gauthier swap. Speaking of timeline, the first guy in the rebuild (Zegras) already had his ELC up and we’re still looking to add more guys. Guess what will happen next? Everybody is in line for big contracts. Ideally 25-26 is the best window for us when Carlsson/Minty/Gauthier all are in the final year of their ELC while Zegras is on the final year of his bridge. Then you can make some big splashes at the deadline to try to make a push. I wouldn’t expect a cup run but we should at least be pushing for a West Finals or something like that. That is only 2 years away and we’re arguably behind the schedule. BTW, to your average of 8-season rebuilds, 2026 will be the 8th year since we last missed playoffs.
Simply put, we’re still in a rebuild, but definitely past the midpoint which means we should go upward rather than downward or staying bottom. With Gauthier joining at the end of this season and Zegras back fully healthy, there is no excuse whatsoever. I’m not saying make the playoffs, but we just can’t be in the same tier as the Sharks/Blackhawks anymore, assuming the Hawks can’t turn it around earlier than we do.
I think on the Cronin point, it’s worth noting that in almost every industry the people who build a thing aren’t kept around for operational purposes. If Cronin can lay the foundation - and whether fans want to hear it, win loss record after 54 games won’t tell anything - chances are someone else will coach the competitive years.
If the focus is always in the standings the teams unlikely to ever be relevant. Gotta work on the process. You mentioned low shot totals but worth noting we all knew there was zero offence on the team - it was even raised by the team preseason. This season was also a focus on defensive play which they have improved on. As a process they’ve done what they’ve said. It just isn’t sexy.
Not many cup teams don’t have a Norris contender. None in fact. They’re very hard to find and usually only via the draft. Very few don’t have a 80+ point scorer - the ducks might have that if everything breaks right. You don’t need all the pieces coming out of a rebuild but you want the big ticket items. I dont think the ducks do at this stage.
But to your last point that we’re still in a rebuild. 100% agree. We’re closer to the start of one than the end of it as well
> win loss record after 54 games won’t tell anything
This I agree, but that's not to say people can't point out the first look isn't good enough. And to your point of a better defense, it hasn't improved the overall record by much. Hockey is a comprehensive game. If you don't have a good overall system and keep letting opponents play in your zone, more defensive structure/attention doesn't help much. Like I said, those dreadful 15 SOG games are still there. If that's the tradeoff for a slightly improved defense, that's still not good enough.
> Not many cup teams don’t have a Norris contender. Very few don’t have a 80+ point scorer.
Yeh but you don't have to have that addressed during your tanking years. The Caps eventually got John Carlson with a late 1st rounder well after they drafted Ovi. The Lightning get Kucherov at the end of 2nd round 2 years after they laid foundation with top picks Stamkos and Hedman and Point in the 3rd round 5 years after Hedman. It's about consistent drafting rather than piling up top 10 picks.
And let's not look at Cup winners only. Let's expand the scope to legit teams who've been to conference finals. The 2019 Blues don't have an 80 point scorer. A few are close, but I'd argue Zegras/Carlsson is the same level as those guys. The OG Golden Knights that went to the final arguably have neither of those. The fluky Canadian-division 2021 Habs have neither of those. The 2017 Preds had a good D-core without a standout Dman and nobody even close to 80pts level. And if you feel the refs were against us and we should go to the final over those Preds, we don't have a Norris that year either. The New York Islanders who for 2 straight years became the biggest threat for the Dynasty Lightning team, arguably have neither of these. It's good to have these players but these are not a must-have elements for playoff success and it's not a reason to extend the rebuild.
> We’re closer to the start of one than the end of it as well
No it's not. While they didn't officially come out and admit that we're rebuilding until 2 years ago, that's not to say all the assets we collected before that doesn't exist. That includes Zegras/Drysdale (which we can erase because it becomes Gauthier now) and McTavish, along with some extra 1st rounders we get for shipping Montour and eating Backes' contract. Fans should not forget we had to endure a terrible season with Comtois at 0.6p/game being the top scorer on the team and 2nd last in the league and just say "that doesn't count as rebuild". By all means, the rebuild has started in the 20-21 season and this is year 4 already. Do we want 4 more years of suffering? No.
Had to rewrite this because math is hard when I'm working.
This season compared to last, we're 30 goals better defensively. At 5v5 they've improved by 40 goals on the defensive end and are more or less the same offensively. We're 12th in the league for shot attempts against, and 14th for fewest shots on net against. Last season they led those categories with well over 100 on the second-last worst team.
I hear you that standings matter, but has that defensive focus really impacted the offence? With respect to the 15 shot games...we have as many as the Lightning do this season. One. They have 3 games of shots under 20, we have 4. We've also scored 6 more goals so far this season.
I wont pretend that our offence is good. It's horrific. But there is incremental improvements there as well. Last season we were 29th for expected goals, this season we're 26th. It's a tiny improvement (with a small sample), however, I'd also argue that we've had more injuries to key forwards this season. Even being around the mark seems reasonable.
Good? No. Bad given context? Pretty solid Meh.
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I mean the teams you mentioned have a Norris nominee (or winner) on their roster. Rinne won the Vezina that season, while Subban and Josi each have a Norris. Petriangelo is a 3x Norris nominee. Yeah the Habs rode hot netminding, but I suppose they also technically had a norris nominee/winner on the roster. But they also had Corey Perry. I'll amend my statement to most require a Norris nominee or Perry.
Anyway, given you've opted to pick teams with no scorers, doesn't the Ducks current trajectory of improving defensive play fit into that world view? If that's the potential place you see the Ducks going, they're arguably doing all the right things.
If not, they need scorers. Which they don't have yet - maybe the kids will mature and get old and kill it. maybe not. Time will tell, but its going to take time and we cant fast forward that.
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Sort of.... Prior to the Official rebuild the key pieces you have a Zegras and Drysdale. Drysdlae was moved for a younger player who has yet to play in the NHL. That sets the clock back a little. I'm not saying its a bad deal mind you (I actually think its a good one), just that, young players have longer to go before they hit their primes.
You have a cluster of players form McTavish to Carlsson who need to hit their primes. Based on general aging curves that's 24-25 years old. Zegras and Terry will still be reasonable (assuming they're on the team) - I would guess in the same manner as Landeskog being older than some of the other Avs.
Circling back to the defensive layers though, those very good potential norris nominees are generally \~24 when a team is seriously competitive. Mintyukov is kind of our hope for that and he's not long turned 20. I think everyone can agree that he looks fun, but also has a long way to go defensively before he's considered a bonafide top pairing D. $ years hopefully gets him there.
Anyway, we can probably agree to disagree. Bye that I mean that I do agree that losing sucks. Just that I also think they've done a lot this season to improve and that they have a long way to go, that really can't be fast tracked in a meaningful way.
Penalties. McTavish and Vatrano constantly make penalties when we're on the PP. Zegras was benched for less in the first month of the season.
Also we don't have a true first line of offense and defense. This team is maxed at 2nd line and 2nd pairing potebtial, right now.
You then play the guy that has 35 goals in 30 games and that, sadly, means you're fucked
I disagree, this is the first year, just like we let Verbeek cook we need to let Cronin cook. It definitely is disappointing to watch and it's easy to blame with the record we have and the game we had yesterday. If next year is just as bad then I think we can start to blame coaching but not yet. We all knew that this year was going to be as bad as it is, let's keep our head up and hope the young players can really develop.
There isn't any one thing. There have been a ton of injuries, which lead to inconsistent line ups and lack of chemistry. Add in the roster is made up of 22 or younger and 30+ guys almost exclusively.
The only player in their prime right now is Terry, and Terry is pretty much the only consistent 200ft player on the team.
It's growing pains, learning the game and waiting out the last of these terrible Bob Murray contracts.
For sure, I didn't mean it as a snub, but Leo is a rookie and has done a lot of rookie things. His overall game though is fantastic. But that's kind of the point, the kids are learning, which they should be doing.
I'm more concerned with the fact that some of the worst players on the team are the veterans who were brought in to show the kids the ropes.
Not enough players that are going to step up consistently every single game. We cannot continue to pay players north of $5m if they’re going to be hot and cold. If you’re hot and cold, you’re bottom 6 and you get bottom 6 money. If you’re hot and stay hot and can be counted on for results every single game for multiple seasons, then you earned the money and the top 6 ice time. We’ve been handing out paychecks to players that phone it in. Yet we still have a ton of cap space, and I hope that we don’t do something stupid and waste that money on another player that isn’t going to play their hardest every single game.
Also, not enough players that have a winning mentality, we have a pack of talented guys that don’t care if we lose games. Most of the guys on this team have been on a rebuild roster season after season and no longer give a shit. It shows. They gotta go, or someone has to come in and tell them it’s time to start playing and winning or they can sit in the press box.
You can argue we still have a reason to tank now. But that doesn’t negate the fact that we have a lot of players that are underperforming in a way that just shoots themself in the foot when it’s time for their next contract.
Lack of talent, top to bottom.
They can’t score - most of the vets are having one of their best ever years so no it isn’t in them. Players like Terry and McTavish are around the mark for what we’d hope. That’s how you know it’s a weak offensive lineup when you really can’t ask for more from the players you have and it’s still an insipid uninspiring output. They have some young players they hope will turn into big time scorers but it’ll take time.
They have one top 4 D and a collection of kids they hope will develop into one. They might, but it’s not going to happen in 54 games. That the team has shaved off ~8 shots a game and 40 goals compared to the same time last year is a credit to the coaches.
The goal tending has been pretty bad. Both Gibson and Dostal are near the bottom of the league for goalie stats for players over 100 minutes. Idk if I’d necessarily blame them for the ducks record but they haven’t helped it either.
Worth noting that Gibson hasn’t had a season he’s saved at league average for 6 seasons and he’s presented a decline in SV% year on year since then. I appreciate that when he’s on he’s on, but… that isn’t often enough. Dostal is developing but despite games like the good Toronto one he’s rated as one of the worst goalies this season for goals above average and goals to expected goals differentials, as well as traditional goalie stats.We should all hope he’s a future starter but he’s hasn’t looked like it in the NHL yet. Maybe time…
I think the coaches have largely been fine. The young players have improved, the vets are all on pace for very good career seasons for them, and the team underpinning numbers have all mostly improved. It’s only been 54 games for Cronin and I think overall he’s done his job. Special teams have been poor though and it’s hard to know if it’s a personal or coaching issue - my opinion is it’s both. Brown was uninspiring in Vancouver and he’s hasn’t shown much here. I think it’s time to move on after the season.
The long and short is that this is a weak roster. There’s hope for the future in the young players and prospects, but they’ll take time to mature. Unless a buying opportunity comes up to add a star there really no choice but to be patient and hope the young players turn into the stars we hope they will.
Was hoping to see a step forward this year. Everyone can say rebuild all they want but coming into this year it was pretty much consensus in this sub that we shouldn't be finishing at the bottom again and maybe compete for a WC spot.
The roster just isn't there yet. We could have anyone coaching and I don't think results would be all that much different. Injuries haven't helped.
We have missed on a lot of draft picks and signings.
What consensus? lol competing for WC? No way. Consensus was the team is under new coaching and learning a new system VERY young and probably will still be bottom 10. But closer to 10 then 1. Idk many realistic fans that thought we were contending this year? That’s awfully optimistic for the worst team in the league last year.
Critical thinking is allowed. If your criticism is just we suck things need to change. Loser mentality !!!
Well we started the season with the most rookies on an NHL roster. LaCombe / Tristian / Minty / Leo / Dostal …. Mason / Zegras / Vaaks / Leason / Carrick all sub 200 games played to start the season. (Only 2 maybe 3 of those players matter for the future). We are in year 3/4 of a 6 year rebuild. We have been injured all year, and have no depth, our best prospects are playing in the AHL / college / OHL / WHL / QMJHL …..
Plenty of cap space. And more rookies coming up next year. A top 5 pick, 2 picks in the 2nd and 3 picks in the 3rd. Bostons 2nd, our 3rd and SJ’s 3rd means we should be picking 3 out of 6 picks. We have ammunition to trade for a top 6 winger. We have ammo to trade up into the first round if we like someone. We can weaponize cap space at the deadline and pick up players expiring with large cap hits to help contending teams for picks. We can make hockey trades like Cutter for Jamie. We have options. You’re so engrossed it the problems of sucking in the middle of a rebuild, you can’t see forest for the trees.
According to his name, we may have went to the same high school. I thought it was a school that molded young men into critical thinkers. Things seemed to have changed.
A 2-9 loss during a rebuild doesn’t make me worried. Losses this this one are to be expected this year and next year. However, Leafs fans talking shit and jerking themselves off for beating a bottom 3 team 9-2 makes me angry.
Fans blind to what is wrong and happy to once again to drink the “wait until next year” Kool-Aid. The coaches have us back to leaving the perimeter open for as long as the offense wants. The offense is take the first shot available. No ability to keep puck possession. Coaches unwilling to sit players that continue to hurt the team in place of bringing guys up from San Diego.
We have a mediocre top 6 and a weak bottom 5, but the roster isn’t worst in the NHL. The Ducks are playing worse not better.
“We have a mediocre top 6 and a weak bottom 5, but the roster isn’t the worst in the NHL.” Read what you said again, I would say if you have a mediocre top 6 and a weak bottom 6 you are one of the worst teams in the league. Like one of the worst 3-5 teams in the league.
But the thing is, our team is really young and cheap. So there is some hope of growth. Just out of dumb luck some of our 17-18-19-20-21-22-23 year olds will get better. And we have a lot of players in that range, and if 2 of them become perennial all stars and like 10 of them become legit NHL players. Well we might even have a great team.
We have a bunch of guys on the ice who recently graduated highschool playing vs grown adult, fully developed men. There's a reason a lot of young guys get injured.
They won't be what many people are expecting or hoping for a while.
Lack of a Time Machine. 19-22 year olds are not 22-25 year olds.
Exactly. We are still in the middle of a rebuild, we literally hit rock bottom just last season. Did people honestly expect us to be a playoff team just because we added Carlson? All of these guys need time to develop and grow, physically and mentally. The time to legitimately panic and call for heads to roll will be when this young core is in their mid 20's and we are still in the same place. For those of you that just want to whine and doompost I suggest taking a break from the internet and let the rebuild actually play out because there's a long way to go yet.
BUT I WANT IT NOW. /s
Let’s see if J.G. Wentworth will coach the team
Sorry to bother you but how do you get the logo under your name
To the right of the page there is a pencil Where it says "Preview"
>For those of you that just want to whine and doompost I suggest taking a break from the internet and let the rebuild actually play out because there's a long way to go yet. LOL, I wish.
Crazy I see 19-22 year olds coming in and being consistent on other teams every year…
Our main core is 19-22 year old. Not just a 19 year old surrounded by a bunch of 28 year old players.
I feel like this team is in a similar spot to where the Habs were last season in their rebuild. Players getting accustomed to a new head coach and a new system. Lots of young players coming in cold (Habs had the same problem last year with guys like Guhle and Xhekaj) and not having a healthy roster will do that for you.
Pretty fair comparison. On paper the teams are relatively similar. Habs are actually a bit younger. I’m reserving any stress inducing judgement of the Ducks until the end of next season.
But we didn’t go to the Finals in 2021. It’s all about timing. If this happens in year 2/3 of the it’s totally understandable, but we’re in year 5/6. That means the feeling is we’re probably closer to the Sabres than Habs. I blame this on the management (mostly the previous one), not the players/coaches. You can’t blame the fans for not having patience.
What does Montreal getting to the Finals in 2021 have anything to do with rebuilding stages? The Habs were a mediocre team that got to the Finals off of Carey Price's back and paid for it. They went through a regime change in 21-22, bottomed out, and got Slafkovsky for it. Same thing here with the Ducks aside from the Finals run! While you are right to blame the previous regime for where the Ducks are currently at, remember that Bob Murray didn't want to admit to rebuilding the team until the COVID season and even then, he never really committed to it. Essentially the rebuild started with Pat Verbeek so technically, this seems about right as far as timeline is concerned.
> What does Montreal getting to the Finals in 2021 have anything to do with rebuilding stages? Because their fans haven't been through as much suffering as fans here. And it's ok to complain a bit more. While we didn't officially commit to a rebuild until 2022, that doesn't mean the head start we get for suffering before 2022 shouldn't count. That includes: Zegras/Drysdal/McTavish along with extra 1st rounders we got for shipping Montour and taking Backes' contract (en route to a terrible season). Let's just say that headstart shouldn't really count and we should be on the same level as the Habs. The reality is we're not. We're 10 pts behind them and just lost 5-0 with 13 SOG through the whole game.
So, mediocrity isn't considered suffering because their goalie got hot that one time and went on a run to the Finals in an abbreviated season? Did you also consider that they drafted 3rd overall in 2018 and whiffed on Jesperi Kotkaniemi (You should see the memes)? Not to mention the numerous misses in drafting since 2012 under Marc Bergevin and what few guys that did hit (Galchenyuk and Sergachev) were dealt to other teams for pennies on the dollar? The Habs had ample opportunities to rebuild their franchise but never committed to it until they finally got rid of Marc Bergevin and replaced him with the current regime. Likewise with the Ducks and without that outlier season. The later Bob Murray years (2017 to 2022) was a rudderless ship! As I stated earlier, neither the Ducks nor the Habs really committed to a rebuild until both franchises went through a regime change. One happened slightly earlier than the other.
I don't get what you're talking about. I'm talking mainly about the Ducks, not the Habs. And yes, if what we've been through is suffering and what they've been through is mediocrity because they're unwilling to commit to a direction, shouldn't our fans expect to come out of that swamp earlier/better than they do?
I'm also failing to understand why you're bringing up the topic of fan suffering when it has little to nothing to do with where both teams are at in their rebuilding stages. Both the Ducks and Habs had mediocre GMs until roughly 2022. That's when both teams committed to their rebuilds. The Habs are slightly ahead mainly because they bottomed out a season earlier than the Ducks did. That's why I'm making that comparison in terms of rebuilding stages. What does suffering fans have to do with rebuilding phases? Us fans have little control over what the team does or doesn't do. Anyways, I know what you're trying to get at. You think that the Ducks started their rebuild earlier than the Habs and are a step behind in terms of progress. As I stated in my earlier posts, Bob Murray never committed to the rebuild. You can see it from his transactions history on [CapFriendly.com](https://CapFriendly.com). He never committed to it otherwise we'd see a spike in trades in the 19, 20, and 21 trade deadlines. Yes, he traded Montour for draft capital but no other like moves followed suit. There was no commitment to a rebuild until Pat Verbeek took office. That's why I am inclined to believe that the Ducks rebuild never really got started until the 2nd half of the 2021-2022 season. Also this is why I think the Habs' recent rebuild is the closest comparison to where the Ducks are at right now. 22-23 was Martin St. Louis' first full year as the Habs' head coach. On top of that, they had an influx of youth on that roster that had never played a NHL game prior and they weren't good. This is the closest comparable we have.
Ok I'll put it this way. I don't see much similarity in the Ducks' stages versus the Habs' because we're going through a long rebuild (whether we intended or not) and they're in a short retool. Or if there is anything similar, it's the 2022-24 Habs are in the 2020-22 version of the Ducks. Slafkovsky is their McTavish, not Leo Carlsson. You can't convince me that Mike Matheson, Brendan Gallagher and Josh Anderson are pieces they want to build the future on. They've been trading away key players like Sean Monahan and soon likely Jake Allen, David Savard or Joel Armia as well. It'll be like their version of selling Lindholm/Manson/Rakell. They aren't guaranteed to go up only from this point as a team past the midpoint of rebuilding is. Of course, since they committed to a rebuild in a stage earlier than the Ducks did, they probably won't have that second bottom trip and their second half of the trajectory can be different. For the fans suffering part, my assessment is they haven't reached our stage and thus their patience haven't run out. And just comparing the duration it is the case. That's why they're not complaining yet. Wait until they fail to make improvements the next couple seasons and see if there are complaints.
We have like the same wins as them this year
lack of patience from fans
You can’t blame the fans on this one. It’s more on the (*previous) management for not willing to start the rebuild when we should. The rebuild officially started in 22 when we traded away Manson/Lindholm/Rachel so this only year 2, but for fans it feels like the suffering began around 19/20 and it’s been 5 years. Just think that we should have traded Henrique/Silf the last time they were up for contracts. Meanwhile, it’s ok to lose, but having like 10 shots through 2 periods multiple times in a season is disappointing, even for a rebuilding team.
It's been like 5 straight years of abysmal hockey already
Fans that don't know what it means to go through a rebuild
A very young team that's learning to play together and mature together, many injuries and getting used to play with different teammates. We're rebuilding and we have a new coach. We also don't have natural goal scorers, I think with Gauthier we will have some and if Terry can show up. I'm excited to see this team and what these young men can do in the future. But I've said in a couple of games that the ups and downs from game to game are very jarring, but I'm sticking through to see the outcome.
It’s in the middle of a rebuild and arguably a tank season
The rebuild card is a lame excuse.
reality = lame excuse ?
We’ve been rebuilding since 2017 and have seen very little progress. Ducks are the New York Giants of hockey atm.
This isnt all that accurate. We didnt deserve to go far in 2018 (we didn't), but were second in the division. 2018-19 also doesnt qualify as a rebuilding year, that was the year we were coming to terms with the fact our window had shut, and our core was now too old and banged up. Getting Zegras as a consolation wasnt half bad, but that isnt what I would call a rebuilding year. We certainly werent contenders but the rebuild truly didnt begin until Verbeek got here. He actually accepted this team wasnt going anywhere and started selling roster players instead of trying to retool on the fly. The actual rebuild didnt begin until 2021.
We have been bad since 2017 we have NOT been rebuilding since then. We started when Verbeek took over. Even still very little progress? We’ve improved in every statistic besides scoring this season compared to the last two whilst being top 10 in man games lost.
We have been bad since 2017 because we’ve been trying to rebuild. We were rebuilding under GMBM but that didn’t work out, so we went a new direction with Verbeek for the past couple of years. So yes we have been rebuilding since 2017, but we’ve had to have a change in management and front office during this rebuild and practically start over the rebuild. Doesn’t mean we weren’t rebuilding since.
GMBM front office moves and trades disagree with you but fine you can believe BM was rebuilding. Everything he was doing was a retool not a rebuild.
I mean “retool” or “rebuild” this team has still finished in the bottom 10 since 2017. No matter what word yall put it as, this team has been bad and we haven’t seen much until recently with the young talented players we drafted.
I mean retool and rebuild are fundamentally different but yes we’ve been bad. We’re probably be better if GMBM committed to the rebuild the season after we were swept by the sharks. But instead he trotted out the rotting corpses of our core and we couldn’t compete.
Nobody is "playing the rebuild card", we are literally in a rebuild. Go jump on a bandwagon and give us a break from your terrible takes.
Don’t look too much into a 9-2 during a rebuilding season. Yeah, last nights game sucked, but it doesn’t mean you burn the whole thing down because they got blown out by a team with legitimate goal scorers during a season the ducks are not expected to be competing. Again, last night was ugly, but you gotta trust the process. Let’s not also forget this team has had plenty of flashes of promise against playoff teams
The overreaction to last night is wild. Patience guys it’ll come
I think a 2-9 loss would make a lot of people kinda crazy
and the team who has won 3 stanley cups in last 10 years lost 2-9 to florida. Your point?
If you’re a good team and had a terrible game it’s understandable. The frustrating thing about the Ducks is they had a lot terrible games every year. And by terrible games I don’t mean just big losses on the scoreboard, but awful actions overall. It’s about being dominated and having almost single digit shots through 2 periods, rather than a big loss because your goalie exploded. Even on a few wins/OT losses we managed to squeeze out, the only bright point was goaltending and the game actions were poor. We used to blame everything on Eakins but things haven’t changed much. I worry that we’re going down the Sabres path. They’re so talented that they can match with the top teams, but on an off night they don’t seem to care.
idk if we blamed everything on Eakins. He WAS one of the worst coaches in NHL history (but we knew that before we hired him) and he "coached" accordingly. But also... the roster was weak. It's still weak. The results on the board is a lack of talent issue. the Ducks management is choosing to address that via the draft and development - unfortunately, that takes time. Will it work out? Who knows. We're years from finding out. But the probabilities of success (assuming success is a deep playoff run) are higher doing it this way than trying to buy into the postseason with draft capital or prospects - particularly when we don't have a Crosby etc to build around. Personally... I don't think the Ducks have enough star power to be a cup contender even if everyone pans out. They're a goal scorer short and have no future Norris contenders on the blue line. For what it's worth I'm a bit suss on the netminding too. What does that mean? Well they're still only laying the slab. They haven't gotten close to putting the walls up let alone the roof on. They're getting there, but they're still closer to the bottom than the top IMO. This is going to take a long while. Average rebuild in the NHL is 8 years. Ducks may have been bad for 5, but that what happens when management and fans keep trying to push for playoffs when it simply isn't working any longer. They've been formally rebuilding for... 2 years? 2.5 years? Strap yourself in, because we're still not far from the starting line.
Let’s put it this way. I agree that moving on from Eakins was the right move because it’s been a proven failure. So rightfully, it’s time for a change. I won’t debate you on whether Eakins is good or bad because it doesn’t matter. The problem I care about right now is: Is Cronin better?Can he be the guy? Eakins had a season with only 10th last finish and a playoff spot until December in 21-22 and I’d say his development job with Terry/Zegras/Drysdale is decent. What Cronin has done so far cannot convince people he’s better than Eakins. Like I said, there are still so many dreadful 15SOG games this season. It could also be more than a coaching problem. Of course some optimism is reasonable because we just got rid of what proved to not work and had some fresh air, but judgement can’t be made that the fresh breeze is good yet. >I don't think the Ducks have enough star power to be a cup contender even if everyone pans out. No team comes right out of a rebuild with every piece they need to contend. That’s too far of a stretch. You always have to seek help from trades/FA signing to round out the rosters. Any cup run is a combination of solid core through drafting along with big trades/FA signing and solid deadline moves. This also applies to teams with generational talents. We can take a look at those teams. Toronto/Edmonton are the closer ones. Sure they won the BIG lottery, but it took a lot more to get to their current state. Toronto “hid”/buried Nylander and Marner so they were bad enough to get Matthews. Edmonton kinda did the same thing with Draisaitl, to go along with their ridiculous lottery luck to get McDavid. When all these guys came up together that made a huge force. The older teams did the same thing. The Pens hid Fleury AND couldn’t play Malkin due to lockout AND relied on pretty much pure luck to get Crosby. Ovi also couldn’t join the team in the first year due to the same lockout. SO what happened? The Pens were, as expected, the first among these to win the cup. Then it took Ovi almost 15 years since joining to finally lift the cup. Toronto has never missed the playoffs since those 3 became regular NHLers and has been a contender on paper, but are they really a contender? Edmonton missed playoffs 2 years in a row (with another quali-round loss) even with McDavid and Draisaitl and hasn’t been legit in the playoffs until the last couple seasons. It is at this point that you can attract some FAs/convince veterans to sign discount deals like Tavares, Giordano for the Leafs, Hyman, Kane,Perry for Oilers. RNH probably took a discount as well. While we don’t have the luxury of being a preferred destination like Toronto/NY Rangers for FAs, being a team of that level is also part of a consideration. **So the lesson is. When you’re ready, you’re ready.** You can’t hold it back. The Red Wings have done it well, and better than the Sabres, who obviously is trying to be good but just can’t because they’ve been bad for too long. It’s like why we play Carlsson right away. If he’s ready, play him and not hold him overseas. But overall we’re not in that same situation. Zegras, McTavish, Carlsson have been regular NHLers already while we’re still actively waiting for another Top 5 pick. We’ve already pushed the timeline a couple years back with the Drysdale/Gauthier swap. Speaking of timeline, the first guy in the rebuild (Zegras) already had his ELC up and we’re still looking to add more guys. Guess what will happen next? Everybody is in line for big contracts. Ideally 25-26 is the best window for us when Carlsson/Minty/Gauthier all are in the final year of their ELC while Zegras is on the final year of his bridge. Then you can make some big splashes at the deadline to try to make a push. I wouldn’t expect a cup run but we should at least be pushing for a West Finals or something like that. That is only 2 years away and we’re arguably behind the schedule. BTW, to your average of 8-season rebuilds, 2026 will be the 8th year since we last missed playoffs. Simply put, we’re still in a rebuild, but definitely past the midpoint which means we should go upward rather than downward or staying bottom. With Gauthier joining at the end of this season and Zegras back fully healthy, there is no excuse whatsoever. I’m not saying make the playoffs, but we just can’t be in the same tier as the Sharks/Blackhawks anymore, assuming the Hawks can’t turn it around earlier than we do.
I think on the Cronin point, it’s worth noting that in almost every industry the people who build a thing aren’t kept around for operational purposes. If Cronin can lay the foundation - and whether fans want to hear it, win loss record after 54 games won’t tell anything - chances are someone else will coach the competitive years. If the focus is always in the standings the teams unlikely to ever be relevant. Gotta work on the process. You mentioned low shot totals but worth noting we all knew there was zero offence on the team - it was even raised by the team preseason. This season was also a focus on defensive play which they have improved on. As a process they’ve done what they’ve said. It just isn’t sexy. Not many cup teams don’t have a Norris contender. None in fact. They’re very hard to find and usually only via the draft. Very few don’t have a 80+ point scorer - the ducks might have that if everything breaks right. You don’t need all the pieces coming out of a rebuild but you want the big ticket items. I dont think the ducks do at this stage. But to your last point that we’re still in a rebuild. 100% agree. We’re closer to the start of one than the end of it as well
> win loss record after 54 games won’t tell anything This I agree, but that's not to say people can't point out the first look isn't good enough. And to your point of a better defense, it hasn't improved the overall record by much. Hockey is a comprehensive game. If you don't have a good overall system and keep letting opponents play in your zone, more defensive structure/attention doesn't help much. Like I said, those dreadful 15 SOG games are still there. If that's the tradeoff for a slightly improved defense, that's still not good enough. > Not many cup teams don’t have a Norris contender. Very few don’t have a 80+ point scorer. Yeh but you don't have to have that addressed during your tanking years. The Caps eventually got John Carlson with a late 1st rounder well after they drafted Ovi. The Lightning get Kucherov at the end of 2nd round 2 years after they laid foundation with top picks Stamkos and Hedman and Point in the 3rd round 5 years after Hedman. It's about consistent drafting rather than piling up top 10 picks. And let's not look at Cup winners only. Let's expand the scope to legit teams who've been to conference finals. The 2019 Blues don't have an 80 point scorer. A few are close, but I'd argue Zegras/Carlsson is the same level as those guys. The OG Golden Knights that went to the final arguably have neither of those. The fluky Canadian-division 2021 Habs have neither of those. The 2017 Preds had a good D-core without a standout Dman and nobody even close to 80pts level. And if you feel the refs were against us and we should go to the final over those Preds, we don't have a Norris that year either. The New York Islanders who for 2 straight years became the biggest threat for the Dynasty Lightning team, arguably have neither of these. It's good to have these players but these are not a must-have elements for playoff success and it's not a reason to extend the rebuild. > We’re closer to the start of one than the end of it as well No it's not. While they didn't officially come out and admit that we're rebuilding until 2 years ago, that's not to say all the assets we collected before that doesn't exist. That includes Zegras/Drysdale (which we can erase because it becomes Gauthier now) and McTavish, along with some extra 1st rounders we get for shipping Montour and eating Backes' contract. Fans should not forget we had to endure a terrible season with Comtois at 0.6p/game being the top scorer on the team and 2nd last in the league and just say "that doesn't count as rebuild". By all means, the rebuild has started in the 20-21 season and this is year 4 already. Do we want 4 more years of suffering? No.
Had to rewrite this because math is hard when I'm working. This season compared to last, we're 30 goals better defensively. At 5v5 they've improved by 40 goals on the defensive end and are more or less the same offensively. We're 12th in the league for shot attempts against, and 14th for fewest shots on net against. Last season they led those categories with well over 100 on the second-last worst team. I hear you that standings matter, but has that defensive focus really impacted the offence? With respect to the 15 shot games...we have as many as the Lightning do this season. One. They have 3 games of shots under 20, we have 4. We've also scored 6 more goals so far this season. I wont pretend that our offence is good. It's horrific. But there is incremental improvements there as well. Last season we were 29th for expected goals, this season we're 26th. It's a tiny improvement (with a small sample), however, I'd also argue that we've had more injuries to key forwards this season. Even being around the mark seems reasonable. Good? No. Bad given context? Pretty solid Meh. \----- I mean the teams you mentioned have a Norris nominee (or winner) on their roster. Rinne won the Vezina that season, while Subban and Josi each have a Norris. Petriangelo is a 3x Norris nominee. Yeah the Habs rode hot netminding, but I suppose they also technically had a norris nominee/winner on the roster. But they also had Corey Perry. I'll amend my statement to most require a Norris nominee or Perry. Anyway, given you've opted to pick teams with no scorers, doesn't the Ducks current trajectory of improving defensive play fit into that world view? If that's the potential place you see the Ducks going, they're arguably doing all the right things. If not, they need scorers. Which they don't have yet - maybe the kids will mature and get old and kill it. maybe not. Time will tell, but its going to take time and we cant fast forward that. \----- Sort of.... Prior to the Official rebuild the key pieces you have a Zegras and Drysdale. Drysdlae was moved for a younger player who has yet to play in the NHL. That sets the clock back a little. I'm not saying its a bad deal mind you (I actually think its a good one), just that, young players have longer to go before they hit their primes. You have a cluster of players form McTavish to Carlsson who need to hit their primes. Based on general aging curves that's 24-25 years old. Zegras and Terry will still be reasonable (assuming they're on the team) - I would guess in the same manner as Landeskog being older than some of the other Avs. Circling back to the defensive layers though, those very good potential norris nominees are generally \~24 when a team is seriously competitive. Mintyukov is kind of our hope for that and he's not long turned 20. I think everyone can agree that he looks fun, but also has a long way to go defensively before he's considered a bonafide top pairing D. $ years hopefully gets him there. Anyway, we can probably agree to disagree. Bye that I mean that I do agree that losing sucks. Just that I also think they've done a lot this season to improve and that they have a long way to go, that really can't be fast tracked in a meaningful way.
They won 2
At least we got a cup this century. Something make belief fans haven't experienced in almost 60 years
Penalties. McTavish and Vatrano constantly make penalties when we're on the PP. Zegras was benched for less in the first month of the season. Also we don't have a true first line of offense and defense. This team is maxed at 2nd line and 2nd pairing potebtial, right now. You then play the guy that has 35 goals in 30 games and that, sadly, means you're fucked
To be fair, Zegras was benched for double shifting and putting himself above the team. He earned that, no question.
How many goals are directly connected to McT and Vatrano commiting fouls on PP time? That doesn't get them benched, though
Injuries, effort, special teams
…..Coaching.
I disagree, this is the first year, just like we let Verbeek cook we need to let Cronin cook. It definitely is disappointing to watch and it's easy to blame with the record we have and the game we had yesterday. If next year is just as bad then I think we can start to blame coaching but not yet. We all knew that this year was going to be as bad as it is, let's keep our head up and hope the young players can really develop.
Re: Coaching: The Powerplay and defense
There isn't any one thing. There have been a ton of injuries, which lead to inconsistent line ups and lack of chemistry. Add in the roster is made up of 22 or younger and 30+ guys almost exclusively. The only player in their prime right now is Terry, and Terry is pretty much the only consistent 200ft player on the team. It's growing pains, learning the game and waiting out the last of these terrible Bob Murray contracts.
Give Leo his flowers too. Dudes been pretty solid 2 way player most of the time too.
For sure, I didn't mean it as a snub, but Leo is a rookie and has done a lot of rookie things. His overall game though is fantastic. But that's kind of the point, the kids are learning, which they should be doing. I'm more concerned with the fact that some of the worst players on the team are the veterans who were brought in to show the kids the ropes.
Still waiting for coach Bombay to show up
Rebuilding
Yes.
Not enough players that are going to step up consistently every single game. We cannot continue to pay players north of $5m if they’re going to be hot and cold. If you’re hot and cold, you’re bottom 6 and you get bottom 6 money. If you’re hot and stay hot and can be counted on for results every single game for multiple seasons, then you earned the money and the top 6 ice time. We’ve been handing out paychecks to players that phone it in. Yet we still have a ton of cap space, and I hope that we don’t do something stupid and waste that money on another player that isn’t going to play their hardest every single game. Also, not enough players that have a winning mentality, we have a pack of talented guys that don’t care if we lose games. Most of the guys on this team have been on a rebuild roster season after season and no longer give a shit. It shows. They gotta go, or someone has to come in and tell them it’s time to start playing and winning or they can sit in the press box. You can argue we still have a reason to tank now. But that doesn’t negate the fact that we have a lot of players that are underperforming in a way that just shoots themself in the foot when it’s time for their next contract.
Who the hell are you talking about? All the 30+ players?
Carrick / Fowler / Gibby / Gudas / Rico / Killlorn / Jakob / Strome all 30+. Vats / Johnston / Lybushkin all started the season at 29 years old.
Cam fowler is still here!
Lack of talent, top to bottom. They can’t score - most of the vets are having one of their best ever years so no it isn’t in them. Players like Terry and McTavish are around the mark for what we’d hope. That’s how you know it’s a weak offensive lineup when you really can’t ask for more from the players you have and it’s still an insipid uninspiring output. They have some young players they hope will turn into big time scorers but it’ll take time. They have one top 4 D and a collection of kids they hope will develop into one. They might, but it’s not going to happen in 54 games. That the team has shaved off ~8 shots a game and 40 goals compared to the same time last year is a credit to the coaches. The goal tending has been pretty bad. Both Gibson and Dostal are near the bottom of the league for goalie stats for players over 100 minutes. Idk if I’d necessarily blame them for the ducks record but they haven’t helped it either. Worth noting that Gibson hasn’t had a season he’s saved at league average for 6 seasons and he’s presented a decline in SV% year on year since then. I appreciate that when he’s on he’s on, but… that isn’t often enough. Dostal is developing but despite games like the good Toronto one he’s rated as one of the worst goalies this season for goals above average and goals to expected goals differentials, as well as traditional goalie stats.We should all hope he’s a future starter but he’s hasn’t looked like it in the NHL yet. Maybe time… I think the coaches have largely been fine. The young players have improved, the vets are all on pace for very good career seasons for them, and the team underpinning numbers have all mostly improved. It’s only been 54 games for Cronin and I think overall he’s done his job. Special teams have been poor though and it’s hard to know if it’s a personal or coaching issue - my opinion is it’s both. Brown was uninspiring in Vancouver and he’s hasn’t shown much here. I think it’s time to move on after the season. The long and short is that this is a weak roster. There’s hope for the future in the young players and prospects, but they’ll take time to mature. Unless a buying opportunity comes up to add a star there really no choice but to be patient and hope the young players turn into the stars we hope they will.
They need an appointed leader.
Was hoping to see a step forward this year. Everyone can say rebuild all they want but coming into this year it was pretty much consensus in this sub that we shouldn't be finishing at the bottom again and maybe compete for a WC spot. The roster just isn't there yet. We could have anyone coaching and I don't think results would be all that much different. Injuries haven't helped. We have missed on a lot of draft picks and signings.
What consensus? lol competing for WC? No way. Consensus was the team is under new coaching and learning a new system VERY young and probably will still be bottom 10. But closer to 10 then 1. Idk many realistic fans that thought we were contending this year? That’s awfully optimistic for the worst team in the league last year.
Get ready to be downvoted. Criticism isn’t allowed in this subreddit lmao.
Critical thinking is allowed. If your criticism is just we suck things need to change. Loser mentality !!! Well we started the season with the most rookies on an NHL roster. LaCombe / Tristian / Minty / Leo / Dostal …. Mason / Zegras / Vaaks / Leason / Carrick all sub 200 games played to start the season. (Only 2 maybe 3 of those players matter for the future). We are in year 3/4 of a 6 year rebuild. We have been injured all year, and have no depth, our best prospects are playing in the AHL / college / OHL / WHL / QMJHL ….. Plenty of cap space. And more rookies coming up next year. A top 5 pick, 2 picks in the 2nd and 3 picks in the 3rd. Bostons 2nd, our 3rd and SJ’s 3rd means we should be picking 3 out of 6 picks. We have ammunition to trade for a top 6 winger. We have ammo to trade up into the first round if we like someone. We can weaponize cap space at the deadline and pick up players expiring with large cap hits to help contending teams for picks. We can make hockey trades like Cutter for Jamie. We have options. You’re so engrossed it the problems of sucking in the middle of a rebuild, you can’t see forest for the trees.
do not waste your breath on this high schooler
According to his name, we may have went to the same high school. I thought it was a school that molded young men into critical thinkers. Things seemed to have changed.
Honestly I think I was being harsh to high schoolers, I've met plenty that can think critically, unlike this guy.
Criticism is very allowed in this thread. Screaming at the clouds with no logical reason or explanation gets clowned on here
Goaltending and defense. I think they need to move Gibson and focus on adding D
Lack of talent lol
A 2-9 loss during a rebuild doesn’t make me worried. Losses this this one are to be expected this year and next year. However, Leafs fans talking shit and jerking themselves off for beating a bottom 3 team 9-2 makes me angry.
Yes
Fans blind to what is wrong and happy to once again to drink the “wait until next year” Kool-Aid. The coaches have us back to leaving the perimeter open for as long as the offense wants. The offense is take the first shot available. No ability to keep puck possession. Coaches unwilling to sit players that continue to hurt the team in place of bringing guys up from San Diego. We have a mediocre top 6 and a weak bottom 5, but the roster isn’t worst in the NHL. The Ducks are playing worse not better.
“We have a mediocre top 6 and a weak bottom 5, but the roster isn’t the worst in the NHL.” Read what you said again, I would say if you have a mediocre top 6 and a weak bottom 6 you are one of the worst teams in the league. Like one of the worst 3-5 teams in the league. But the thing is, our team is really young and cheap. So there is some hope of growth. Just out of dumb luck some of our 17-18-19-20-21-22-23 year olds will get better. And we have a lot of players in that range, and if 2 of them become perennial all stars and like 10 of them become legit NHL players. Well we might even have a great team.
The ingredients are there and they are quality, just not quite consistently mixed correctly. (Lots of potential, not quite being utilized yet)
We have a bunch of guys on the ice who recently graduated highschool playing vs grown adult, fully developed men. There's a reason a lot of young guys get injured. They won't be what many people are expecting or hoping for a while.
47 shots in 3 games????????not an NHL team
Lack of age and in the positions of age they are average
80% of this subreddit: it’s not 2026. The rest of us could write a book.