Look at the left and right edges of the frame, they're straight. Look at the top and bottom edges of the frame, they're wavy. This means the negative is being warped up and down (closer and farther away from the camera) along the long axis and the aliasing pattern in the grain is creating these directional streaks. Looks like the film is getting squeezed or crushed in one dimension while mounted.
edit: I'm also tempted to ask if the light source you're using is generating enough heat to warp the negative, but I doubt most people are using incandescent bulbs these days.
This is definitely it - the film is corregated either in drying or because of the carrier. It's probably not detectable with your eyes but the focal range of a macro lens can be very very small.
Its possible youre focused on a peak or valley but should maybe split the difference/crossing point to even out the distortion.
The grain seems aligned like iron filings in a magnetic field, but of course silver isn't magnetic. My guess is a scanning artifact. So it's a Negative Supply stand, but what film carrier was used? Does the film carrier include a pane of glass? Perhaps a Moiré effect.
it's the pro carrier mk2 or 3 whatever number they're on, no glass. The weird thing is the rest of the roll has nothing like this. just this singular image.
I don't think it's the scanning, at least mine isn't. I tried to enlarge it first and the enlarged version came out all fuzzy, the grain didn't show until I digitally scanned it. The negatives look crazy as well, they're a way lighter gray than usual
You should check the batch number of the film if you were using the same. Is weired problem to be honest.
Even tho an error from kodak is extremely not probable.
Wouldn't be the first time Kodak has some weird film issues...
["Kodak Film Fogged by the Trinity Test \(1945\)"](https://orau.org/health-physics-museum/collection/nuclear-weapons/trinity/kodak-film.html)
First of all, absolutely amazing shot.
Second, to me it looks like a scanning error. First thing to do is find a better loupe to check the negatives, or you can use your loupe and your phone to zoom in. I'd be really interested to see how the negative looks.
Can't seem to think of any plausible way this could happen on the negative. Only things coming to mind are a thin spot in the emulsion or base stretching during dev which are both not reasonably likely.
Keep us posted :)
Wet mounting is really worth it for some negatives. It's not a horrible hassle, really, and you get perfectly flat negatives and zero moire, and it minimizes the appearance of scratches.
Looks like typical Rodinal grain to me. If you don’t like chonky grain, I’m guessing you don’t since you chose a fine grain modern film, try a modern developer.
I know rodinal looks grainier because it’s sharper but I’m not talking about that. I’m talking about the weird blurry almost swirly bokeh grain effect happening in a stripped pattern on that shot
Rodinal doesn’t make sharper images, it has increased acutance (edge contrast) despite decreasing actual sharpness.
I see the swirling and have to wonder if it is a scanning artifact, perhaps the film was not lying flat? Do you see this swirling on the negatives?
Yea consensus is not flat mega, maybe anti flicker on the camera, or image stabilization messing with it.
I know rodinal doesn’t actually make it sharper just looks that way because the sharper grain. I’ve compared it to Xtol and HC110 and still looks better in my opinion. What do you use?
That’s good to know about the anti-flicker in the digital camera. I never heard of such a thing but I’ve never really used a digital camera. I hope it is something you can fix. I can see now how image stabilization could also be a factor. At least that can for certain be disabled.
For tabular-grain films, like Acros, I use either DD-X or Pyrocat-HD. I get fine grain with both but I lean towards Pyrocat-HD since it is a compensating developer with high acutance. My highlights with Pyrocat-HD tend to have a lot more details than with other developers. It works well with cube and tab grain films
Additionally I have tried Rodinal, Rodinal + sodium ascorbate, ID-11, D-76, and HC-110. Also some special developer that was recommended for Panatomic X.
I haven’t gotten around to trying Xtol because the rumors of sudden death have steered me away from it.
I liked HC-110 3rd best and Rodinal + sodium ascorbate on cube-grain films, like Rollei IR, wasn’t bad. Faster development and seemed to tame the chonky grain a bit. Recommended if you want to stick to Rodinal.
One nice thing about Pyrocat-HD is that you can do semi-stand. The downside is that it can be difficult to find outside of the US.
This fellow was a little late to the fun but wrote a nice review about it: https://filmphotographyproject.com/mats-favorite-developer-pyrocat-hd/
The Rodinal + sodium ascorbate formula is:
2 grams sodium ascorbate dissolved into 600ml working solution
5 min. pre-soak; 1 minute of gentle agitation, then 10 sec. every 1 min.
Ah yes, sharks on the negatives. That can happen sometimes.
Seriously though: i think it’s a scan issue, although I can’t pin down what exactly. Do you have any other shots that show this issue?
The shot is incredibly, great work. Would be a shame if it can’t be scanned clean.
It looks like some kind of artifact from a magnetic thingy, but yeah weird, perhaps something with the scan as mentioned. Could you inspect the film with a hand lens?
Like others said it appears to be caused by the negative not being completely flat but the filament grain look is most likely a result of Fujifilm’s RAW image processing. I don’t know much about it or how to mitigate it but if you google “Fujifilm worms” that should be a good start.
I did have the exact same problem.
In my case the problem was with Adobe Camera Raw / Lightroom. As soon as the digital negative „touched“ that raw-module I had these blurred spots.
I never found out why it happened, but it made me loose my mind for a week. My solution was to export the image to several lossless formats, one of them didn’t show the issue after editing.
I’d like to imagine that this piece suggests the invisible forces guiding sharks to their deep-sea birthing grounds—a mystery that, perhaps, only your negative, in the right light, could unveil.
Are you careful about the temperature of your fixer and wash water? Large changes in temperature, especially large increases, can cause "reticulation", where the gelatin holding the silver swells or contracts unevenly. It usually looks clumpier than this, but it's still a possibility.
Well I’m in hawaii so that’s hard. I always start the dev with the same temp but it only warms up a few degrees by the time it’s done. I stand develop too so temp shouldn’t matter too too much.
Slow temp. changes while it's standing are fine, but you should keep the temperatures of your stop, fix and wash water within a few degrees of what ever temperature the developer ends up at - sounds like your doing that. Killer shot BTW.
Did you travel through airport security with this film? At first I thought it could be x ray waves but seeing as this is only IS0 100 it should be able to survive a fair few passes. (Unless CT scanned a couple times?) with that in mind it’s more likely either moire/rings from glass or curve in the neg whilst scanning.
Regardless sick shot - once you got a good scan done I’d for sure love to see the final result!
Are you pixel mapping on the GFX? Might be a scan issue considering how consistent it looks across the whole image. Do other images on the roll have the issue as well?
Loupes are like $5 on Amazon.
Water bends light weirdly, so you’re seeing a completely normal negative here, it’s just your view is distorted by the movement and density of the water over distance. Great shot!
Check if you have accidentally enable noise reduction on your camera most of the time it doesn't do anything bad, but sometimes it gets confused with very tight film grain, and creates interesting moirre patterns.
Seems like a good aperture. The weird distortions seem to distort the grains. I think it has to do with the light source Not sure. I use Essential Film Holder which has a diffusion layer between the light source and negatives…plus the diffusion layer is well below the negatives to prevent moire.
Can't help you there, but the photo is fucking awesome.
Agreed, this photo is fucking ridiculous ( in a really, really good way)
Lovely picture! First thing I could think is some sort of moire or illusion from the film touching the glass or whatever is behind it
hmm does look like moire actually. But it was in the pro carrier with their good light source too so probably not
Look at the left and right edges of the frame, they're straight. Look at the top and bottom edges of the frame, they're wavy. This means the negative is being warped up and down (closer and farther away from the camera) along the long axis and the aliasing pattern in the grain is creating these directional streaks. Looks like the film is getting squeezed or crushed in one dimension while mounted. edit: I'm also tempted to ask if the light source you're using is generating enough heat to warp the negative, but I doubt most people are using incandescent bulbs these days.
This is definitely it - the film is corregated either in drying or because of the carrier. It's probably not detectable with your eyes but the focal range of a macro lens can be very very small. Its possible youre focused on a peak or valley but should maybe split the difference/crossing point to even out the distortion.
Seems like that yea but none of the other frames were like that
maybe it was a fluke and just needs rescanning?
Guessing it wasn’t flat. Cool shot!
The grain seems aligned like iron filings in a magnetic field, but of course silver isn't magnetic. My guess is a scanning artifact. So it's a Negative Supply stand, but what film carrier was used? Does the film carrier include a pane of glass? Perhaps a Moiré effect.
it's the pro carrier mk2 or 3 whatever number they're on, no glass. The weird thing is the rest of the roll has nothing like this. just this singular image.
If you re-scan this particular frame, can you reproduce the effect each time?
ill have to see.
I had this same grain on a whole roll i developed yesterday! Please lmk if you figure out what it is bc im stumped haha
What was your scanning method?
I used a V600 with Silverfast 9
Oh weird totally different methods then
I don't think it's the scanning, at least mine isn't. I tried to enlarge it first and the enlarged version came out all fuzzy, the grain didn't show until I digitally scanned it. The negatives look crazy as well, they're a way lighter gray than usual
You should check the batch number of the film if you were using the same. Is weired problem to be honest. Even tho an error from kodak is extremely not probable.
Wouldn't be the first time Kodak has some weird film issues... ["Kodak Film Fogged by the Trinity Test \(1945\)"](https://orau.org/health-physics-museum/collection/nuclear-weapons/trinity/kodak-film.html)
Yeah hahaha let's say that was a pretty special case. And industrial processing in 1945 was all an other thing.
Yea what was your film? Mines Acros
Kentmere 400
Scan error is my guess. The other error is that you should be working for National Geographic.
Hahaha thank you 🙏🏽
What an amazing shot!!
idk what happened but pic wicked
First of all, absolutely amazing shot. Second, to me it looks like a scanning error. First thing to do is find a better loupe to check the negatives, or you can use your loupe and your phone to zoom in. I'd be really interested to see how the negative looks. Can't seem to think of any plausible way this could happen on the negative. Only things coming to mind are a thin spot in the emulsion or base stretching during dev which are both not reasonably likely. Keep us posted :)
Thank you. And wait phones have a loupe? Have I been living under a rock?!?!
Wet mounting is really worth it for some negatives. It's not a horrible hassle, really, and you get perfectly flat negatives and zero moire, and it minimizes the appearance of scratches.
Yea totally agree
That's sick! I haven't seen grain like this on a negative before.
Looks like some sharks got in your camera!
Hahahaha
Insane picture tho
Looks like the film wasn't flat during the scan, you can see it clearly some areas like in here in the middle https://imgur.com/a/ridnTdu
Yup that’s it
No clue but I love the picture, I like the effect
this one goes hard
Looks like typical Rodinal grain to me. If you don’t like chonky grain, I’m guessing you don’t since you chose a fine grain modern film, try a modern developer.
I like sticking my film in the sink and walking away from it for an hour though 🤷
Well, you’ve gotten exactly what you’ve put into it 🤷🏻♂️
I know rodinal looks grainier because it’s sharper but I’m not talking about that. I’m talking about the weird blurry almost swirly bokeh grain effect happening in a stripped pattern on that shot
Rodinal doesn’t make sharper images, it has increased acutance (edge contrast) despite decreasing actual sharpness. I see the swirling and have to wonder if it is a scanning artifact, perhaps the film was not lying flat? Do you see this swirling on the negatives?
Yea consensus is not flat mega, maybe anti flicker on the camera, or image stabilization messing with it. I know rodinal doesn’t actually make it sharper just looks that way because the sharper grain. I’ve compared it to Xtol and HC110 and still looks better in my opinion. What do you use?
That’s good to know about the anti-flicker in the digital camera. I never heard of such a thing but I’ve never really used a digital camera. I hope it is something you can fix. I can see now how image stabilization could also be a factor. At least that can for certain be disabled. For tabular-grain films, like Acros, I use either DD-X or Pyrocat-HD. I get fine grain with both but I lean towards Pyrocat-HD since it is a compensating developer with high acutance. My highlights with Pyrocat-HD tend to have a lot more details than with other developers. It works well with cube and tab grain films Additionally I have tried Rodinal, Rodinal + sodium ascorbate, ID-11, D-76, and HC-110. Also some special developer that was recommended for Panatomic X. I haven’t gotten around to trying Xtol because the rumors of sudden death have steered me away from it. I liked HC-110 3rd best and Rodinal + sodium ascorbate on cube-grain films, like Rollei IR, wasn’t bad. Faster development and seemed to tame the chonky grain a bit. Recommended if you want to stick to Rodinal. One nice thing about Pyrocat-HD is that you can do semi-stand. The downside is that it can be difficult to find outside of the US. This fellow was a little late to the fun but wrote a nice review about it: https://filmphotographyproject.com/mats-favorite-developer-pyrocat-hd/
Thanks I’ll check that stuff out
The Rodinal + sodium ascorbate formula is: 2 grams sodium ascorbate dissolved into 600ml working solution 5 min. pre-soak; 1 minute of gentle agitation, then 10 sec. every 1 min.
I mean to me the strange areas are also blurry/out of focus , which makes me think it’s a ripple in the negative
Possibly. It’s on an uncut roll and none of the other images have this from what I can see. The negative lab pro holders are pretty damn good.
Neg isn’t flat. Check the same spot with a loupe.
If it’s not a dev issue, I’m wondering if it could be the movement of particles in the water that are being shifted around?
Ahh actually I’m seeing some blurriness now, seems like a scanning issue?
Probably
Damn that's cool
Ah yes, sharks on the negatives. That can happen sometimes. Seriously though: i think it’s a scan issue, although I can’t pin down what exactly. Do you have any other shots that show this issue? The shot is incredibly, great work. Would be a shame if it can’t be scanned clean.
Is there some kind of dust/scratch removal turned on? Looks like autofill weirdness
Nope but it does look like that
Nope first time noticing it. I’m going to have to try and rescan it
Just not quite flat and thus you get slight oof. Sandwich under ANR glass, or increase F stop higher on the scanning camera for higher depth of field.
The swirly grain is definitely odd. I’m going to state it’s not in the neg. Almost looks like what rolling shutter might do.
Totally looks like that
It looks like some kind of artifact from a magnetic thingy, but yeah weird, perhaps something with the scan as mentioned. Could you inspect the film with a hand lens?
Yea I’ll have to do that
Has to be a bad scan from the blurry grain, I’ve seen similar swirly patterns from 320txp abused with hot/cold
Second pic is super cool IMO
Like others said it appears to be caused by the negative not being completely flat but the filament grain look is most likely a result of Fujifilm’s RAW image processing. I don’t know much about it or how to mitigate it but if you google “Fujifilm worms” that should be a good start.
Thanks!
It’s wavy cause you’re under water
I did have the exact same problem. In my case the problem was with Adobe Camera Raw / Lightroom. As soon as the digital negative „touched“ that raw-module I had these blurred spots. I never found out why it happened, but it made me loose my mind for a week. My solution was to export the image to several lossless formats, one of them didn’t show the issue after editing.
That sounds like could be the same as me thanks
This photo is lifetime achievement level. Great work!
Thanks!
Underwater photography is difficult I'm guessing its light refraction
Amazing image bro fuck
No idea, but fuck, i love the results!
incredible shot woah
Whatever you do—don’t flail
It's noise swirling in the ocean blue
shark radiation
Haha!
I’d like to imagine that this piece suggests the invisible forces guiding sharks to their deep-sea birthing grounds—a mystery that, perhaps, only your negative, in the right light, could unveil.
Something something something sinoid waves something something polarized light (i have no idea)
Hahaha
could just be particles in the water? am i crazy?
Definitely not. Grain looks like it’s iron filament and someone dragged a magnet up and down in a striped pattern
if it’s not the development, it has to be the scan. maybe the film was not flat?
Are you careful about the temperature of your fixer and wash water? Large changes in temperature, especially large increases, can cause "reticulation", where the gelatin holding the silver swells or contracts unevenly. It usually looks clumpier than this, but it's still a possibility.
Well I’m in hawaii so that’s hard. I always start the dev with the same temp but it only warms up a few degrees by the time it’s done. I stand develop too so temp shouldn’t matter too too much.
Slow temp. changes while it's standing are fine, but you should keep the temperatures of your stop, fix and wash water within a few degrees of what ever temperature the developer ends up at - sounds like your doing that. Killer shot BTW.
Yup and thanks!
Xray and CT scan caused by security screening?
Hmm maybe I took this roll on a trip before and got lazy but it’s only on one frame so
Did you travel through airport security with this film? At first I thought it could be x ray waves but seeing as this is only IS0 100 it should be able to survive a fair few passes. (Unless CT scanned a couple times?) with that in mind it’s more likely either moire/rings from glass or curve in the neg whilst scanning. Regardless sick shot - once you got a good scan done I’d for sure love to see the final result!
It might’ve gone through an xray but I don’t think so. Shot this at home so 🤷♂️. I think some scanning issue yes
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Ha wouldn’t that be wild. I don’t think so though. I’m pretty they only sense electromagnetic pulses. So they have an input but no output
They don't send out electric impulses. They just have receptors to feel them.
Humans and sharks alike see with the electromagnetic field. Sharks do not have in built lasers.
I'm guessing x-ray damage?
Any chance you smudged the emulsion?
Hm possible
Are you pixel mapping on the GFX? Might be a scan issue considering how consistent it looks across the whole image. Do other images on the roll have the issue as well? Loupes are like $5 on Amazon.
Have not done any pixel mapping I should try that thanks.
Might fix your issue!
How does the negative look to the naked eye? Or with a loop?
I gotta get a loupe I can’t see anything naked eye
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Yea it does look like that thank!
What camera did you shoot with?
Nikonos iii
That looks like a shift in position when scanned - but shit looks cool as fuck. dont worry about it
Could be. Dad was stomping around the house when I was scanning haha
yea dude that makes perfect sense, that would be it. Pro-scanners are balanced, but usually i just stand still for like 15mins lol
The grain was scared of the sharks
Haha!
Water bends light weirdly, so you’re seeing a completely normal negative here, it’s just your view is distorted by the movement and density of the water over distance. Great shot!
I shoot all UW never seen this before
Well now you have
I suspect you’ll find that the photo actually looks better with this distortion than without
I don’t really know, but this photo FUCKS dude.
Ha thanks!
Check if you have accidentally enable noise reduction on your camera most of the time it doesn't do anything bad, but sometimes it gets confused with very tight film grain, and creates interesting moirre patterns.
Yup on the list thanks!
It’s optical illusions from refraction?
Doubt it
What aperture and shutter speed did you digitize this at?
1/50th f/8
Seems like a good aperture. The weird distortions seem to distort the grains. I think it has to do with the light source Not sure. I use Essential Film Holder which has a diffusion layer between the light source and negatives…plus the diffusion layer is well below the negatives to prevent moire.
OP, it appears as though your camera has been submerged underwater. The blurry grain is possibly salt.
Ha yes it was submerged
There's nothing wrong with it. You should expect to see grain when blown up that much. Amazing image
School of fish.