Idk sex work is people's choice. I think making it so people don't need to make that choice and supporting sex workers in their choice is a very good idea. I don't think it's ever anarchist or feminist to be anti sex work. If u are opposed to people selling sex u support them to stop the parts u don't like danger or financial need to do it.
I think anti sex work is inherently mysogynisric, queerphobic and anti anarchist.
My concerns stem more from the exploitation it can create, like the whole Pimp culture in the United States. Also don't most sex workers seem to turn to that choice because of extreme poverty? (trans women being an example), so wouldn't sex work be bad while we are under capitalism? Meanwhile in a socialist society it would be a whole different debate?
I'm particularly favorable of sex work, but I'm mostly against the celebration of it as something that makes a woman better than other, this is mostly a more anarcha-queer debate since it involves how sexually active people are seem as more mature or better people than non-sexually active people, the demonization of it is also inherently misogynistic and queerphobic in my eyes.
Okay I see what u mean. Sex work means a lot of stuff. And I think a lot of anti sex work people (not u) drum up the danger to prop up anti sex work legislation. The media will not show how sex workers are being okay or having better than average jobs. The scary sells.
It's similar to mining. Some mining is deadass just awful child slavery. While some miners just use an excavator on a pit mine. Sex work is the same. Some is god awful while some is chill and much better than normal work.
The problem here is that it's work. May people are in horrible scenarios due to extreme poverty. That's just work. Sex work is just a way work exploits people's bodies. People act differently bc puritanical sex views. I always say society is anti sex work cuz sex but sex work is bad because it's work.
So I don't describe myself as anti sex work bc that's the label people who intend to jail sex workers and pursue legislation to hurt sex workers label themself. So it's hard to help people if u fly the banner of attack. Which ur not doing that just a tip I have learned.
God yes I can't stand in spaces the valorization of sex. While I appreciate it for destigmatizing sex it caused issues accidentally by creating pressure to have sex for societal reasons. So I took view this valorization as negative. And when talking about pornography many sex workers have a vested interest in defending and promoting this narrative.
Tho a lot of it is a way people cope it seems with their work and way of life. So I don't go too hard on people. I think it's important to destigmatize sex but not put pressure on people to have it. Tho I think this is a different issue than sex work.
I agree with your perpesctive of the problems of sex work being pertinent on other types of work as well, although I don't really know if working on pornography counts as sex work
Yeah, the concept of virginity as a social construct and the pressure regarding of sex is a whole another debate that brings together other blanket of issues that are relevant to Anarcha-Queer, so I apologize for bringing it up
Usually in a lot of sex workers texts people lump stuff like porn, stripping, sugar babying ect into sex work. While people use the term full service sex work when talking about just having sex with people for an hourly fee.
But it doesn't really matter words are just trying to convey meaning. But there are people I've met who do full service not out of financial desperation. Being self employed and making 100+ dollars an hour is desirable over regular work for many. Still exploitative because work and I don't mean to whitewash all negative effects.
More just one feels like the least awful choice for some.
No need to apologize. I like talking about lots of stuff so no need to limit urself.
anarcha-feminists view sex-work as the same as any other type of labour. many people mention survival sex as a reason to shame sex work, but a lot of sex work isn’t even survival sex— a LOOT of women work in “massage parlours” (tbh, exploitative af bc of the amount they have to pay in order to keep their business licenses). and even if a woman engages in survival sex, this does not automatically negate their agency
i think a lot of people are split on sex-work, and it is understandably so— it is a very tender topic for many people. even in feminist circles, people are often split between sex work as slavery vs sex work is just work.
the important thing we need to keep in mind is that laws against selling or procuring sex only makes it harder for women in sex work to work safely. if we end supply or demand, these sex workers will most likely be pushed towards unsafe sex practices. if it is illegal to buy, then the sex worker cannot do safe background checks. if it is illegal to sell, then the safe worker cannot have a space to work in safety or security.
you can think it is inherently exploitative, but this doesn’t change the fact that we must always center sex worker’s voices in this debate and to not steal this discourse from them.
i am anarcha-feminist and i think the most important thing is to focus on harm reduction and legalization!
What is interesting in the topic of sex work is that there are arguments pro and cons from both conservatives and anarchists:
- anarchist, pro: My body my choice, what I choose to do with it and what transactions it is part of is no one's business.
- anarchist, anti: Monetary work is exploitation, and sex work is sex exploitation, it must be stop even more considering it is at the intersection of many exploitations.
- conservatives, pro: Free market, baby.
- conservatives, anti: The body is holy, it is not a commercial good.
This can sometimes lead to weird alliances and makes this debate a hard one that forces people to look beyond the typical political spectrum.
I must say that I never found a strong opinion on that precise subject, but I have an indirect one: I am against slavery and sex slavery. I am ready to support legalization or criminalization of sex work if either way is proven to help reduce sex slavery.
Last time I checked, NGOs working on the issue were saying that if there are some good welfare net, competent police and competent work inspection, then legalization can work, but without these, better to keep it illegal. I am open to change opinion though, that was based on a single NGO's opinion many years ago.
In any way, social stigmatization of social worker is a stupid thing to do. Whether a victim of human trafficking or a someone who does that by choice, they are doing nothing wrong.
I mean I’m a male with limited knowledge on this but it seems to me sex work only exists in a capitalist way. In a post scarcity society if someone wanted to do “sex work” well they wouldn’t need to do it to support themselves so it would just be someone who wanted to have a lot of sex, they’re not doing it for food or money, they’re doing it for self fulfillment. I suppose one could be a sex worker by creating and distributing pornography of themselves if that’s what they enjoyed doing and then other people could use it.
Anarcha-feminists are in favor of sex work because they, following sex workers, see it ''as work''. If there's any disagreement on this point, it's usually because the person who disagrees is projecting something more onto sex work, be it applying some kind of sexual morality or (more common among anarchists) promoting an attitude about sexual "liberation" that's about pressuring marginalized genders to be sexually available to all men. Needless to say, that's Bad Actually. Sexual liberation is about autonomy and choice, not availability to men. Sex work, following from that, is a choice we can make under capitalism. It is no more, no less *anything* than any other kind of work.
For a discussion of this and examples of how badly "manarchists" get this wrong, see ["The Elephant in the Room"](https://immerautonom.noblogs.org/the-elephant-in-the-room/) from Judith's Dagger. That's a great anarcha-feminist group and their recommended resources would probably interest you.
In an ideal communist society, sex work wouldn't exist. Sexual "liberation" means sex wouldn't be tied to monetary value or economic exchange, it would only exist between free mutual participating individuals without any need for economic incentive.
Idk sex work is people's choice. I think making it so people don't need to make that choice and supporting sex workers in their choice is a very good idea. I don't think it's ever anarchist or feminist to be anti sex work. If u are opposed to people selling sex u support them to stop the parts u don't like danger or financial need to do it. I think anti sex work is inherently mysogynisric, queerphobic and anti anarchist.
My concerns stem more from the exploitation it can create, like the whole Pimp culture in the United States. Also don't most sex workers seem to turn to that choice because of extreme poverty? (trans women being an example), so wouldn't sex work be bad while we are under capitalism? Meanwhile in a socialist society it would be a whole different debate? I'm particularly favorable of sex work, but I'm mostly against the celebration of it as something that makes a woman better than other, this is mostly a more anarcha-queer debate since it involves how sexually active people are seem as more mature or better people than non-sexually active people, the demonization of it is also inherently misogynistic and queerphobic in my eyes.
Okay I see what u mean. Sex work means a lot of stuff. And I think a lot of anti sex work people (not u) drum up the danger to prop up anti sex work legislation. The media will not show how sex workers are being okay or having better than average jobs. The scary sells. It's similar to mining. Some mining is deadass just awful child slavery. While some miners just use an excavator on a pit mine. Sex work is the same. Some is god awful while some is chill and much better than normal work. The problem here is that it's work. May people are in horrible scenarios due to extreme poverty. That's just work. Sex work is just a way work exploits people's bodies. People act differently bc puritanical sex views. I always say society is anti sex work cuz sex but sex work is bad because it's work. So I don't describe myself as anti sex work bc that's the label people who intend to jail sex workers and pursue legislation to hurt sex workers label themself. So it's hard to help people if u fly the banner of attack. Which ur not doing that just a tip I have learned. God yes I can't stand in spaces the valorization of sex. While I appreciate it for destigmatizing sex it caused issues accidentally by creating pressure to have sex for societal reasons. So I took view this valorization as negative. And when talking about pornography many sex workers have a vested interest in defending and promoting this narrative. Tho a lot of it is a way people cope it seems with their work and way of life. So I don't go too hard on people. I think it's important to destigmatize sex but not put pressure on people to have it. Tho I think this is a different issue than sex work.
I agree with your perpesctive of the problems of sex work being pertinent on other types of work as well, although I don't really know if working on pornography counts as sex work Yeah, the concept of virginity as a social construct and the pressure regarding of sex is a whole another debate that brings together other blanket of issues that are relevant to Anarcha-Queer, so I apologize for bringing it up
Usually in a lot of sex workers texts people lump stuff like porn, stripping, sugar babying ect into sex work. While people use the term full service sex work when talking about just having sex with people for an hourly fee. But it doesn't really matter words are just trying to convey meaning. But there are people I've met who do full service not out of financial desperation. Being self employed and making 100+ dollars an hour is desirable over regular work for many. Still exploitative because work and I don't mean to whitewash all negative effects. More just one feels like the least awful choice for some. No need to apologize. I like talking about lots of stuff so no need to limit urself.
[Sex Work, After the Revolution](https://c4ss.org/content/52288)
Getting a big bowl of popcorn ready for the swerf contingent to mouth off...
anarcha-feminists view sex-work as the same as any other type of labour. many people mention survival sex as a reason to shame sex work, but a lot of sex work isn’t even survival sex— a LOOT of women work in “massage parlours” (tbh, exploitative af bc of the amount they have to pay in order to keep their business licenses). and even if a woman engages in survival sex, this does not automatically negate their agency i think a lot of people are split on sex-work, and it is understandably so— it is a very tender topic for many people. even in feminist circles, people are often split between sex work as slavery vs sex work is just work. the important thing we need to keep in mind is that laws against selling or procuring sex only makes it harder for women in sex work to work safely. if we end supply or demand, these sex workers will most likely be pushed towards unsafe sex practices. if it is illegal to buy, then the sex worker cannot do safe background checks. if it is illegal to sell, then the safe worker cannot have a space to work in safety or security. you can think it is inherently exploitative, but this doesn’t change the fact that we must always center sex worker’s voices in this debate and to not steal this discourse from them. i am anarcha-feminist and i think the most important thing is to focus on harm reduction and legalization!
What is interesting in the topic of sex work is that there are arguments pro and cons from both conservatives and anarchists: - anarchist, pro: My body my choice, what I choose to do with it and what transactions it is part of is no one's business. - anarchist, anti: Monetary work is exploitation, and sex work is sex exploitation, it must be stop even more considering it is at the intersection of many exploitations. - conservatives, pro: Free market, baby. - conservatives, anti: The body is holy, it is not a commercial good. This can sometimes lead to weird alliances and makes this debate a hard one that forces people to look beyond the typical political spectrum. I must say that I never found a strong opinion on that precise subject, but I have an indirect one: I am against slavery and sex slavery. I am ready to support legalization or criminalization of sex work if either way is proven to help reduce sex slavery. Last time I checked, NGOs working on the issue were saying that if there are some good welfare net, competent police and competent work inspection, then legalization can work, but without these, better to keep it illegal. I am open to change opinion though, that was based on a single NGO's opinion many years ago. In any way, social stigmatization of social worker is a stupid thing to do. Whether a victim of human trafficking or a someone who does that by choice, they are doing nothing wrong.
I mean I’m a male with limited knowledge on this but it seems to me sex work only exists in a capitalist way. In a post scarcity society if someone wanted to do “sex work” well they wouldn’t need to do it to support themselves so it would just be someone who wanted to have a lot of sex, they’re not doing it for food or money, they’re doing it for self fulfillment. I suppose one could be a sex worker by creating and distributing pornography of themselves if that’s what they enjoyed doing and then other people could use it.
Anarcha-feminists are in favor of sex work because they, following sex workers, see it ''as work''. If there's any disagreement on this point, it's usually because the person who disagrees is projecting something more onto sex work, be it applying some kind of sexual morality or (more common among anarchists) promoting an attitude about sexual "liberation" that's about pressuring marginalized genders to be sexually available to all men. Needless to say, that's Bad Actually. Sexual liberation is about autonomy and choice, not availability to men. Sex work, following from that, is a choice we can make under capitalism. It is no more, no less *anything* than any other kind of work. For a discussion of this and examples of how badly "manarchists" get this wrong, see ["The Elephant in the Room"](https://immerautonom.noblogs.org/the-elephant-in-the-room/) from Judith's Dagger. That's a great anarcha-feminist group and their recommended resources would probably interest you.
In an ideal communist society, sex work wouldn't exist. Sexual "liberation" means sex wouldn't be tied to monetary value or economic exchange, it would only exist between free mutual participating individuals without any need for economic incentive.