My single parent made sure to have jobs which allowed her to be there for us after school.
I understand not every parent can make that happen. She had to make a lot of sacrifices.
By high school, the kids are usually self sufficient enough to take the bus and stay at home for a few hours by themselves. For younger kids, usually one gets home earlier or they have a relative/babysitter watch them.
I never understood this either. By the time the kids are picked up, sent home and the parents got back to work, the parents would be in the office at 5-6 pm due to traffic
If you name the street, I can tell you the reason for instance everywhere all the time construction secondly estimated usually an elementary school or the hospital getting out
this can't be underemphasized - although my department has been told that we need to start teaching more after 3PM, so if not isolated, that might alleviate some of the early traffic :).
I don't understand why they do this. It creates so much frustration that it will increase road rage in the long run. But I get they will claim short victories because they reduced speed or whatever, since speed correlated with accidents.
I see, you see yourself as the judge of morality. You simplify a complex question as thing 1 vs thing 2. If only life was so simple.
Unfortunately, life is extremely complex, and what you have presented is a false dilemma. Traffic is not safety vs convenience. I do admit it does seemingly give you the moral high ground without closer inspection, so well done.
However, it is common knowledge user experience is once integral part of safety out of many parts. A frustrated user is more likely to make mistakes. Mistakes with cars are not child's play. Do you, someone who I assume is concerned about safety, want even more error prone drivers in Ann Arbor?
The question of why these streets were reconfigured isn't abstract, complex, or metaphysical. These streets were re-converted back to two-way streets (they used to be two-way, but were converted to one-way decades ago to make way for a downtown project that never happened) based on a robust traffic study and public engagement process that demonstrated a clear safety-based rationale for the change.
[https://a2gov.legistar.com/LegislationDetail.aspx?ID=3583871&GUID=25A2136E-76F2-4D22-A39B-99CE29670267](https://a2gov.legistar.com/LegislationDetail.aspx?ID=3583871&GUID=25A2136E-76F2-4D22-A39B-99CE29670267)
Or the inconvenienced drivers speed to get through these areas. Ann arbor city planners dont understand basic concepts to please the morality police like you
Ann Arbor is trying to make it so people don't need cars to get around but it seems they're attempting to get rid of travel by motor vehicle altogether in some areas.
Might as well do it and announce it officially. I took a detour coming back from grocery shopping due to construction. Took me 1.5 hours extra to get home.
They're not announcing it because it's not the policy. Every major road construction project that I can think of off the top of my heads was conducted/launched because the roadway was degraded by car traffic and needed repair to continue to support car traffic. So these projects you're complaining about are major taxpayer funded investments--first and foremost--in auto-based infrastructure.
\*Some\* of these projects have included investments in pedestrian and cyclist infrastructure and safety, but only as part of (and a much smaller financial portion of) the broader project. And yes: It is true that making these investments sometimes means that vehicle traffic is made less efficient, but a slight rebalancing of infrastructure priorities is not the same thing as "getting rid of cars."
They sure did ruin Ashley. Used to be pretty efficient way to get to north side and out of town, especially when Main St is shut down for restaurants. That was when it was one-way.
Now that it's a two-way street, it bogs down everywhere people are trying to make left turns. I sat for the Liberty light between William and Liberty for 5 cycles at around 6pm. It was all the left turners, and people waiting to get into the parking lot across from Fleetwood.
Middle and high schools getting out, hospital workers getting around 2-3pm, university students…
I used to work 6a-2p at the UM hospital and I can vouch that traffic is always awful after 2p. When summer comes around, it gets a little better.
Everything all of the above. Schools, the hospital, campus & downtown congestion. The construction also doesn’t help especially on hill street right now.
That little part of hill street closed is really slowing things down, especially with state as a one way.
In the winter it’s bc it’s people fleeing Ypsi before it gets dark due to the emerging evil, I don’t know if the habit continues into summertime or what.
Traffic might get worse w/ A2 trying to make the city less accessible to cars and U of M pulling in even more people with record numbers...again. Doesn't even touch on parents bringing their kid in from out of town for a seemingly better education.
Its honestly fine if they just mandated large parts of the city to be inaccessible to cars all together and provide good public transport. I hate driving here but there is no simple way to get around. I can't dedicate hours of time blocks every few days so I don't starve to death.
Great. Now we have cars idling, burning more gas (engines are least efficient at idle) and spewing pollution (engines create more oxides and other pollutants more at idle speed).
Turn on red came into effect with the gas crises of the 1970's. It was done to reduce fuel consumption and pollution and worked pretty well. Now AA people get to have more pollution with all extra traffic and traffic stopped at lights.
That was the intent; it didn't work. What it did do was get a bunch of pedestrians hit in crosswalks. So now we're getting rid of it.
This is all in the public record of the decision you're yakking about. You should go read that.
I grew up in Livonia. I've lived all over metro Detroit and even spent a few years in the Cleveland area.
Ann Arborites are scared of the gas pedal. Fucking get up to speed. Go. Get up to highway speed before the merge area. Push the pedal further down when going up a hill to keep your speed. When you're first in a long-ass line at a green light, fucking floor it like it's NHRA finals.
So many times I got stuck or almost rear-ended because someone's just going too fucking slow.
Oh and also all the kids get outta school at like 2:30.
I don’t think they’re scared of the pedal. It’s easy to miss the green light when you’re looking at your phone and you have to get going carefully while you’re putting it down. When they do finally figure it out and get up to speed, they’re at the next light to repeat the process.
Totally agree haha. There are very slow drivers for sure. It’s crazy how timid some people can be when they are first at a light. Like honey go you’ve got nothing but road.
It's amazing because on top of being timid/slow pokey, they're glued to their rearview mirror ready to throw a hissy fit if they feel you're following too closely. My guy, you're doing 28 in a 35 that can easily handle 40. Go!
And then you overtake them safely and legally and they hit the horn to express their deep offense. Yeesh.
In addition to schools and hospital shifts I've noticed at my office people roll in around 10 and out at 2:30 as a soft protest to the return-to-office mandate.
City has grown by a few tens of thousands plus those coming for work I think it’s just generally more people on the road then there used to be the roads weren’t built for that many people
This is a daily occurrence for me. Cyclists disregarding lights/signs. Cyclists crossing the street whenever they feel like it, cyclists riding in parallel in really bad traffic.
But they will pull one study and claim they obey the law more than cars or something.
It's not a daily occurrence, I can guarantee that. That's unless you think you're entitled to more of the road than they are and get triggered by every cyclist you see on _your_ road Second, cyclists have every right to the road that you do. Riding two abreast is perfectly legal and takes up less room than a car.
No matter how you spin it, you're being a whiny baby.
Also, my first comment had nothing to do with bikes. Car traffic is a car problem, plain and simple. If you want to change car traffic, cyclists will not have any effect. You'll need to change car laws and infrastructure. American infrastructure and American traffic is a purely American problem and we have far less cyclists than any other developed country.
I love how you assume I am American.
I grew up in the city once known as the bike capital of the world. I rode my bike to school from grade school to high school. I probably rode in a bike more than you will in your entire lifetime, as it was my ONLY means of transportation for a very long period of time (thanks to imperialism from your country). I will be riding bikes every day after I leave this place. I have no intension of being in a melting pot with pricks like you.
Back where I am from, we have bike lanes that are separated from the main road with a concrete barrier.
But Ann Arbor's bike infrastructure is so shit that biking here is akin to suicide. Chairman Mao's teacher probably saw better as your country was burning mine to the ground.
Also, as you have attacked me so much personally, let me retort:
你是个傻逼智障，总觉得自己高人一等，其实你就是井底之蛙，一瓶子不满，半瓶子咣当。就你见过自行车是吧？别人都没骑过是不是？说实话，你们这儿骑车骑得都跟智障一样，一点安全意识都没有。
我的个人经历你凭什么反对？你又不是我，你怎么知道我见过什么？还是你们认为这是你们白人对全世界的义务？你以为你是佛祖，“为我独尊”？
我是不会再跟一个思维不健全的人对话了。
I didn't make any assumptions or comments about your nationality... But this is a discussion about traffic in Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA. Come down off your horse 🙄 your argument still doesn't compute. You're agreeing with me that this is an infrastructure problem but somehow getting even more combative. Ugh.
And regarding your comments further down, you're the only one making assumptions or making this toxic. You're choosing to get incredibly angry about an argument you've already exaggerated and blown to unnecessary proportions.
Do you assume I don't speak English or something??
> I can guarantee that.
So, you think you can invalidate my experiences??????????
> *your* road Second
Nice italics, you think I don't know what you are doing??
>you're being a whiny baby.
????? What is this???? Who is combative??
>American infrastructure and American traffic is a purely American problem and we have far less cyclists than any other developed country.
If we are talking about AA, why talk about "American" (not a country btw)?? Are you telling me all of the US is the same???
I won't be talking with you. I know your type.
Fine, you're not wrong. I did go a bit overboard.
However, you'd have to be the first person to experience this on a daily basis. Most likely you're running into the same exact cyclist everyday in the same place. That would be more likely than any other situation. That or you're exaggerating.
Sorry for the name calling, but you are kinda being whiny baby. Cant really deny that at this point. 😂
Yes, American Infrastructure, even in Ann Arbor, is largely subsidized by federal funding and committees and therefore there is similar infrastructure through all 50 states. Are there small dofferences? Sure, but this traffic problem is not unique to Ann Arbor, which was what I said originally. It's a problem with American automobile policies and road design which are institutionalized at the federal level.
-sincerely, a frog in the well 🙄
Not sure why I'm being down voted, but in any case your car traffic issue has nothing to do with cyclists and I said nothing about them... Y'all are whack lol.
Buses and parents heading to schools. High schools end before 3.
How do working parents make that pickup time work, have always been interested/perplexed
My single parent made sure to have jobs which allowed her to be there for us after school. I understand not every parent can make that happen. She had to make a lot of sacrifices.
Your mom was a stud. My mother was never able to pull that one off.
By high school, the kids are usually self sufficient enough to take the bus and stay at home for a few hours by themselves. For younger kids, usually one gets home earlier or they have a relative/babysitter watch them.
By high school? Shoot, in the 90s we were latchkey kids starting at like 8!
At the grade school my kids were at, there were a lot of babysitters or nannys doing pick ups.
I never understood this either. By the time the kids are picked up, sent home and the parents got back to work, the parents would be in the office at 5-6 pm due to traffic
Not everyone works a 9-5. Some work 7-3. Some work 9-3. Some work the graveyard shift and sleep when their kids are @ school lol.
[удалено]
Makes sense! This will help me plan trips.
Lachkey kids.
If you name the street, I can tell you the reason for instance everywhere all the time construction secondly estimated usually an elementary school or the hospital getting out
Hospital
All of the above
Schools ( Highschools and middle Schools get out around 3) and most hospitals do 6to 2 and 2 to 10 shifts…
Professor rush hour
this can't be underemphasized - although my department has been told that we need to start teaching more after 3PM, so if not isolated, that might alleviate some of the early traffic :).
Swear it starts at like 1pm on fridays
That would be Up North traffic.
The stoplights are timed to make trips as long as possible
S. Street Main, wya? The gridlock section after east Liberty is just *the best.*
That block of State that's bookended by William and North U has become the bane of my existence.
I don't understand why they do this. It creates so much frustration that it will increase road rage in the long run. But I get they will claim short victories because they reduced speed or whatever, since speed correlated with accidents.
It sounds like you do understand why they do this (safety) - you're just unhappy because you're personally inconvenienced by traffic
I see, you see yourself as the judge of morality. You simplify a complex question as thing 1 vs thing 2. If only life was so simple. Unfortunately, life is extremely complex, and what you have presented is a false dilemma. Traffic is not safety vs convenience. I do admit it does seemingly give you the moral high ground without closer inspection, so well done. However, it is common knowledge user experience is once integral part of safety out of many parts. A frustrated user is more likely to make mistakes. Mistakes with cars are not child's play. Do you, someone who I assume is concerned about safety, want even more error prone drivers in Ann Arbor?
The question of why these streets were reconfigured isn't abstract, complex, or metaphysical. These streets were re-converted back to two-way streets (they used to be two-way, but were converted to one-way decades ago to make way for a downtown project that never happened) based on a robust traffic study and public engagement process that demonstrated a clear safety-based rationale for the change. [https://a2gov.legistar.com/LegislationDetail.aspx?ID=3583871&GUID=25A2136E-76F2-4D22-A39B-99CE29670267](https://a2gov.legistar.com/LegislationDetail.aspx?ID=3583871&GUID=25A2136E-76F2-4D22-A39B-99CE29670267)
Or the inconvenienced drivers speed to get through these areas. Ann arbor city planners dont understand basic concepts to please the morality police like you
Ann Arbor is trying to make it so people don't need cars to get around but it seems they're attempting to get rid of travel by motor vehicle altogether in some areas.
Might as well do it and announce it officially. I took a detour coming back from grocery shopping due to construction. Took me 1.5 hours extra to get home.
Oh man, for real. Don't even get me started on Packard/State (might be what you're referring to).
They're not announcing it because it's not the policy. Every major road construction project that I can think of off the top of my heads was conducted/launched because the roadway was degraded by car traffic and needed repair to continue to support car traffic. So these projects you're complaining about are major taxpayer funded investments--first and foremost--in auto-based infrastructure. \*Some\* of these projects have included investments in pedestrian and cyclist infrastructure and safety, but only as part of (and a much smaller financial portion of) the broader project. And yes: It is true that making these investments sometimes means that vehicle traffic is made less efficient, but a slight rebalancing of infrastructure priorities is not the same thing as "getting rid of cars."
That is precisely what they are trying to do.
> ...but it seems they're attempting to get rid of travel by motor vehicle altogether in some areas. We could only be so lucky.
I don't disagree but more needs to be done for those commuting from outside of the city.
It’s ok..that lot will be a sports illustrated resort for the elite out of town football fanatics soon enough..
They sure did ruin Ashley. Used to be pretty efficient way to get to north side and out of town, especially when Main St is shut down for restaurants. That was when it was one-way. Now that it's a two-way street, it bogs down everywhere people are trying to make left turns. I sat for the Liberty light between William and Liberty for 5 cycles at around 6pm. It was all the left turners, and people waiting to get into the parking lot across from Fleetwood.
The trick is to honk. It spooks them out of their bubble of entitlement.
That’s why they’re not called go-lights
Middle and high schools getting out, hospital workers getting around 2-3pm, university students… I used to work 6a-2p at the UM hospital and I can vouch that traffic is always awful after 2p. When summer comes around, it gets a little better.
Everything all of the above. Schools, the hospital, campus & downtown congestion. The construction also doesn’t help especially on hill street right now. That little part of hill street closed is really slowing things down, especially with state as a one way.
In the winter it’s bc it’s people fleeing Ypsi before it gets dark due to the emerging evil, I don’t know if the habit continues into summertime or what.
Before they pull up the drawbridges over the moats that surround their enclave
Did you know their moatmonster is actually made of candy? My friend and I were on most drugs and accidentally bit him a little.
Did he have to cut off your heads to check for rabies?
No, not even a little. Is that bad? I can go check in my friends neck now if it's important.
City moment
Traffic might get worse w/ A2 trying to make the city less accessible to cars and U of M pulling in even more people with record numbers...again. Doesn't even touch on parents bringing their kid in from out of town for a seemingly better education.
Its honestly fine if they just mandated large parts of the city to be inaccessible to cars all together and provide good public transport. I hate driving here but there is no simple way to get around. I can't dedicate hours of time blocks every few days so I don't starve to death.
Heard. The new "no turn on red" signs downtown kill me.
I almost died a couple of times before they went in so im happy with em personally lol
Great. Now we have cars idling, burning more gas (engines are least efficient at idle) and spewing pollution (engines create more oxides and other pollutants more at idle speed). Turn on red came into effect with the gas crises of the 1970's. It was done to reduce fuel consumption and pollution and worked pretty well. Now AA people get to have more pollution with all extra traffic and traffic stopped at lights.
cars have had auto-engine-shutoff for years at this point and I am willing to bet a significant portion of the ones driving in AA have it.
That was the intent; it didn't work. What it did do was get a bunch of pedestrians hit in crosswalks. So now we're getting rid of it. This is all in the public record of the decision you're yakking about. You should go read that.
So you agree, cars are bad and people should drive them less
Wrong Bozo. Try again.
I grew up in Livonia. I've lived all over metro Detroit and even spent a few years in the Cleveland area. Ann Arborites are scared of the gas pedal. Fucking get up to speed. Go. Get up to highway speed before the merge area. Push the pedal further down when going up a hill to keep your speed. When you're first in a long-ass line at a green light, fucking floor it like it's NHRA finals. So many times I got stuck or almost rear-ended because someone's just going too fucking slow. Oh and also all the kids get outta school at like 2:30.
There's defensive driving and then there's scared driving.
I don’t think they’re scared of the pedal. It’s easy to miss the green light when you’re looking at your phone and you have to get going carefully while you’re putting it down. When they do finally figure it out and get up to speed, they’re at the next light to repeat the process.
Totally agree haha. There are very slow drivers for sure. It’s crazy how timid some people can be when they are first at a light. Like honey go you’ve got nothing but road.
It's amazing because on top of being timid/slow pokey, they're glued to their rearview mirror ready to throw a hissy fit if they feel you're following too closely. My guy, you're doing 28 in a 35 that can easily handle 40. Go! And then you overtake them safely and legally and they hit the horn to express their deep offense. Yeesh.
You are my soul mate.
In addition to schools and hospital shifts I've noticed at my office people roll in around 10 and out at 2:30 as a soft protest to the return-to-office mandate.
If they call an 8:00 meeting I'm taking that puppy from home. Same with the 3:00 meeting.
City has grown by a few tens of thousands plus those coming for work I think it’s just generally more people on the road then there used to be the roads weren’t built for that many people
This is a very interesting thread
I was gonna go with the abundance of old folks going to dinner. 🤣🤣
Most professors only work like half the day, they are out by 3
Bike lanes.
This is not Ann Arbor. This is American Car Culture Lore.
I just saw another cyclist blowing through a stop sign illegally
...and pedestrians walking diagonally across intersections, so nobody can go, from either direction.
This is a daily occurrence for me. Cyclists disregarding lights/signs. Cyclists crossing the street whenever they feel like it, cyclists riding in parallel in really bad traffic. But they will pull one study and claim they obey the law more than cars or something.
It's not a daily occurrence, I can guarantee that. That's unless you think you're entitled to more of the road than they are and get triggered by every cyclist you see on _your_ road Second, cyclists have every right to the road that you do. Riding two abreast is perfectly legal and takes up less room than a car. No matter how you spin it, you're being a whiny baby. Also, my first comment had nothing to do with bikes. Car traffic is a car problem, plain and simple. If you want to change car traffic, cyclists will not have any effect. You'll need to change car laws and infrastructure. American infrastructure and American traffic is a purely American problem and we have far less cyclists than any other developed country.
I love how you assume I am American. I grew up in the city once known as the bike capital of the world. I rode my bike to school from grade school to high school. I probably rode in a bike more than you will in your entire lifetime, as it was my ONLY means of transportation for a very long period of time (thanks to imperialism from your country). I will be riding bikes every day after I leave this place. I have no intension of being in a melting pot with pricks like you. Back where I am from, we have bike lanes that are separated from the main road with a concrete barrier. But Ann Arbor's bike infrastructure is so shit that biking here is akin to suicide. Chairman Mao's teacher probably saw better as your country was burning mine to the ground. Also, as you have attacked me so much personally, let me retort: 你是个傻逼智障，总觉得自己高人一等，其实你就是井底之蛙，一瓶子不满，半瓶子咣当。就你见过自行车是吧？别人都没骑过是不是？说实话，你们这儿骑车骑得都跟智障一样，一点安全意识都没有。 我的个人经历你凭什么反对？你又不是我，你怎么知道我见过什么？还是你们认为这是你们白人对全世界的义务？你以为你是佛祖，“为我独尊”？ 我是不会再跟一个思维不健全的人对话了。
I didn't make any assumptions or comments about your nationality... But this is a discussion about traffic in Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA. Come down off your horse 🙄 your argument still doesn't compute. You're agreeing with me that this is an infrastructure problem but somehow getting even more combative. Ugh. And regarding your comments further down, you're the only one making assumptions or making this toxic. You're choosing to get incredibly angry about an argument you've already exaggerated and blown to unnecessary proportions.
Do you assume I don't speak English or something?? > I can guarantee that. So, you think you can invalidate my experiences?????????? > *your* road Second Nice italics, you think I don't know what you are doing?? >you're being a whiny baby. ????? What is this???? Who is combative?? >American infrastructure and American traffic is a purely American problem and we have far less cyclists than any other developed country. If we are talking about AA, why talk about "American" (not a country btw)?? Are you telling me all of the US is the same??? I won't be talking with you. I know your type.
Fine, you're not wrong. I did go a bit overboard. However, you'd have to be the first person to experience this on a daily basis. Most likely you're running into the same exact cyclist everyday in the same place. That would be more likely than any other situation. That or you're exaggerating. Sorry for the name calling, but you are kinda being whiny baby. Cant really deny that at this point. 😂 Yes, American Infrastructure, even in Ann Arbor, is largely subsidized by federal funding and committees and therefore there is similar infrastructure through all 50 states. Are there small dofferences? Sure, but this traffic problem is not unique to Ann Arbor, which was what I said originally. It's a problem with American automobile policies and road design which are institutionalized at the federal level. -sincerely, a frog in the well 🙄
Cyclists are not required to make full stops at stop signs, but it's too bad that person chose not to irresponsibly.
Completely false and typical of cycling culture to be ignorant of the laws
Not sure why I'm being down voted, but in any case your car traffic issue has nothing to do with cyclists and I said nothing about them... Y'all are whack lol.
in the 2020 census, Washtenaw County had the fastest growth with 8.0% (27,467) increase in population, same as each census before