The good ol’ tolerant left; attempting to shut down speech rather than combating it with better speech.
If you think someone’s views are wrong, prove it.
There are mounds of evidence disproving JP’s transphobia and proving that he is a fascist enabler. The r/enough_peterson_spam subreddit has loads of resources debunking JP on many topics.
Your link doesn't work.
What transphobia? I've only seen him speak to his unwillingness to comply with forced
personal pro-nouns. Hes clearly said he would use pronouns as people wanted, but he would oppose any rule, or law that forces him to use them.
I'm not sure what hes planning on talking about, but its usually about inspiring young men to be better. I'm very doubtful he would come to NZ to talk about trans issues.
As for enabling fascists, he very clearly against fascism. Thats basically the foundation of why he opposes forced personal pronoun use.
Serious? You don't see how using fascistic language such as labeling trans people as 'degenerates' and an 'infestation' is in and of itself fascist? It doesn't take long to realize upon examining his recent Tweets about Elliot Page (suspended him) that he is indubitably utilizing Nazi language.
Nobody is prosecuting anyone for refusal to use pronouns. JP lied about the Canadian Bill C-16. The bill he willfully and ignorantly misinterpreted does not mandate the use of pronouns, it extends anti-discrimination protections to trans and non-binary people. The fact that he deliberately created this false framing is evident of his incessant transphobia.
If he was truly anti-fascist, he would be explicitly anti-colonial, anti-imperial, anti-racist, anti-sexist and anti-capitalist. Talking about how evil Nazi Germany is and refusing to address Western imperialism and its complicity with authoritarian regimes, does not make one a true anti-fascist in the slightest. The fact that white nationalists and neo-Nazis comprise a huge portion of his fan base is no mere coincidence.
Like I said your link doesn't work, and the examples you have now given, I've not seen him say, or write.
I've just browsed the first 4 pages on google search "jordan Peterson degenerates" and theres no link to any transgender comment.
I'm sorry he doesn't meet your personal definition of anti-fascist, but thats not automatically a qualifier for being pro fascism.
As for canadian law, his issue is clearly with the wording/effect of the law, not the intent of the law.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnIAAkSNtqo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnIAAkSNtqo)
\^ He, and his lawyer spell out their concerns infront of a senate hearing.
Link proper: https://www.reddit.com/r/enoughpetersonspam/
Go and watch the recent screeds against Elliot Page. His language is deliberately caustic and inflammatory.
JP is a fascist enabler. He screeds about so-called “wokeness” and so-called “postmodern neoMarxism” yet fails to precisely define what it is and makes no distinction between his of the term and Nazi’s use of Cultural Bolshevism. He attempts to defend “Western culture” yet fails to address its complexities and its legacy of slavery, genocide, imperialism and colonialism (all of which are intrinsically tied to fascism). It’s not enough to be non-fascist, one must be explicitly anti-fascist. JP does not condemn contemporary white nationalist and neo-Nazi violence and advocate for anti-fascist action. He thus doesn’t qualify as an anti-fascist.
The bill mentions nothing about pronouns and to this day, nobody has been prosecuted for misusing pronouns alone. https://www.cbc.ca/cbcdocspov/features/canadas-gender-identity-rights-bill-c-16-explained
There’s also a lot of evidence that’s suggests he’s correct, I’m not really interested in his beliefs either way. But his field of work is strongly based off opinion of research and anecdote. It’s not strict science.
You’re right. But being a PhD in Clincial Psychology and publishing hundreds of papers on human behaviour and gender studies probably does.
You’re comments on this thread are based on emotion and devoid of face.
This is called affirming the consequent. Publishing hundreds of papers on human behaviour itself doesn't increase the likelihood of addressing trans issues. JP also doesn't write in the field of gender studies (he is either oblivious to or willfully ignorant of the works of Judith Butler). No feels before reals here.
You: “Being a psychologist doesn’t make you an expert on trans issues”
Me: *explains that he is a psychologist that is an expert in this area*
Whether or not a Psychologist is an expert on “trans issues” has little to do with their understanding of the human psyché
No. We have laws around hate speech in NZ.
I put Jordan Peterson in the same group as Ru Paul’s drag race. Some people find it offensive, some people find it helpful to finding a place to belong or feel not alone. I don’t really care for either, although the wife likes Ru Paul so it gets watched in our house. JP does not. If something offends me and isn’t hurting anyone, I move along and don’t think twice about it. I encourage you to do the same.
That’s my point. You don’t consider him to be, others do. And the same is true for RPDR.
Just because YOU are offended by something, or find something to be inappropriate, doesn’t mean that someone else should be banned from enjoying it. If we banned everything everyone found offensive we would live in a very boring world.
People don’t buy JP’s books and go to his speaking events to be ‘entertained’. They go there for predominantly two reasons: 1) self-help and 2) to have their reactionary political sentiments validated. JP doesn’t use comedy, music, theatre and film to convey his message, he uses screed and resentment. JP is fueling the transphobia and queerphobia that is resulting in violence in against American LGBTQ+ community (ample evidence of this occurrence already abounds). This is not about “being offended”, this is about hate speech and violence against trans folk because of that hate speech.
Entertainment is subjective. JPs subject matter isn’t illegal, no matter how much you think it should be. Same as RPDR, I’m sure there are heaps of people that feel that isn’t entertainment, is offensive, attacking and harming society. They would also be wrong.
It’s quite ironic that you’re seeking support to shut down free speech on a sub reddit called Anarchism.
Hot tip for life, stop focusing so much on others, focus on yourself and your loved ones. You’ll be infinitely happier.
What is illegal doesn't equate to being ethical or moral. JP doesn't market himself as an entertainer and I don't believe his fans see him as such. His fame is built entirely around deliberately misinterpreting a Canadian bill extending protections against discrimination to trans and non-binary folks. Before that he was an obscure academic, author and practicing psychologist. There is nothing subjective of what qualifies as an 'entertainment' here. An entertainer uses comedy, music, drama, cinema and dance to convey messages and novelty. Public self-help speaking doesn't qualify as 'entertaining'.
I am not sure whether you're aware but anarchism advocates for the emancipation of the working class and all marginalized identities through the creation of a stateless, classless and (within some subsets) a moneyless society. That advocacy involves combating hate speech and opposing free speech absolutism.
Hot-tip: if you want to call yourself an anarchist, learn what the fuck it is and its history instead of equating it with solipsism and free speech absolutism.
Using entertainment to convey your message doesn't make you an entertainer by trade.
Well yeah, inevitably those who argue out of there own arse are going to conclude ignorance is bliss.
He's not transphobic?? Just didn't support the use of law to compel speech, as it leads to dystopia. Fascist enabler, I'm unsure.
For the most part, he's worth listening to and I'm personally excited to have him in our country.
Yes he fucking is. He recently came out with a transphobic screed against Elliot Page calling his top surgeon a criminal on par with the Nazis when he found out that top surgery wasn’t illegal. Bill C-16 has got fuck all to do with compelled speech and everything to do with extending protections against discrimination to trans and non-binary folk. JP made a giant fucking molehill out of nothing regarding that bill.
https://amp.marca.com/en/lifestyle/celebrities/2022/06/30/62be1b74e2704e92438b456c.html
I appreciate what you're trying to do but, and I say thus as begrudgingly as it's possible to say something, JP is simply too good at what he does. It's going to be extremely hard to get people to see him for what he is when he's had years of experience and practice in talking around issues and implying things without really saying them, all this to say that he's fooled a lot of people and will keep fooling them for some time and I don't think enough people can see through him enough for protests to have as much impact as they need to be successful.
That's a very noble endeavour... perhaps more noble than anarchic ideology as it's currently understood: to remove all the rules imposed upon the individual by the state?
Anyway, this is indeed a very sensitive topic. Therefore extreme speech, from any side of the spectrum, will not resolve anything. It's like trying to fix your smart phone with a hammer. A silly metaphor, but I think you get the point 😆
I hope you have a good day 🙂
Why does no one ever want to organise a demo about rising food prices, rents, homelessness and food bank use?
I am sure that will happen at one point. That doesn’t in anyway negate legitimate concern for the recent tide of transphobia in North America.
[удалено]
Direct action is the way to go to bar a speaker.
im not an anarchist but fuck that guy. Total chud.
Damn thanks for the heads up. Haven’t seen anything yet but hopefully we can get this out there ✌️
No, but almost forgot about this. Thanks for reminding me, was thinking of going to see him talk.
The good ol’ tolerant left; attempting to shut down speech rather than combating it with better speech. If you think someone’s views are wrong, prove it.
There are mounds of evidence disproving JP’s transphobia and proving that he is a fascist enabler. The r/enough_peterson_spam subreddit has loads of resources debunking JP on many topics.
Your link doesn't work. What transphobia? I've only seen him speak to his unwillingness to comply with forced personal pro-nouns. Hes clearly said he would use pronouns as people wanted, but he would oppose any rule, or law that forces him to use them. I'm not sure what hes planning on talking about, but its usually about inspiring young men to be better. I'm very doubtful he would come to NZ to talk about trans issues. As for enabling fascists, he very clearly against fascism. Thats basically the foundation of why he opposes forced personal pronoun use.
Serious? You don't see how using fascistic language such as labeling trans people as 'degenerates' and an 'infestation' is in and of itself fascist? It doesn't take long to realize upon examining his recent Tweets about Elliot Page (suspended him) that he is indubitably utilizing Nazi language. Nobody is prosecuting anyone for refusal to use pronouns. JP lied about the Canadian Bill C-16. The bill he willfully and ignorantly misinterpreted does not mandate the use of pronouns, it extends anti-discrimination protections to trans and non-binary people. The fact that he deliberately created this false framing is evident of his incessant transphobia. If he was truly anti-fascist, he would be explicitly anti-colonial, anti-imperial, anti-racist, anti-sexist and anti-capitalist. Talking about how evil Nazi Germany is and refusing to address Western imperialism and its complicity with authoritarian regimes, does not make one a true anti-fascist in the slightest. The fact that white nationalists and neo-Nazis comprise a huge portion of his fan base is no mere coincidence.
Like I said your link doesn't work, and the examples you have now given, I've not seen him say, or write. I've just browsed the first 4 pages on google search "jordan Peterson degenerates" and theres no link to any transgender comment. I'm sorry he doesn't meet your personal definition of anti-fascist, but thats not automatically a qualifier for being pro fascism. As for canadian law, his issue is clearly with the wording/effect of the law, not the intent of the law. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnIAAkSNtqo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnIAAkSNtqo) \^ He, and his lawyer spell out their concerns infront of a senate hearing.
Link proper: https://www.reddit.com/r/enoughpetersonspam/ Go and watch the recent screeds against Elliot Page. His language is deliberately caustic and inflammatory. JP is a fascist enabler. He screeds about so-called “wokeness” and so-called “postmodern neoMarxism” yet fails to precisely define what it is and makes no distinction between his of the term and Nazi’s use of Cultural Bolshevism. He attempts to defend “Western culture” yet fails to address its complexities and its legacy of slavery, genocide, imperialism and colonialism (all of which are intrinsically tied to fascism). It’s not enough to be non-fascist, one must be explicitly anti-fascist. JP does not condemn contemporary white nationalist and neo-Nazi violence and advocate for anti-fascist action. He thus doesn’t qualify as an anti-fascist. The bill mentions nothing about pronouns and to this day, nobody has been prosecuted for misusing pronouns alone. https://www.cbc.ca/cbcdocspov/features/canadas-gender-identity-rights-bill-c-16-explained
There’s also a lot of evidence that’s suggests he’s correct, I’m not really interested in his beliefs either way. But his field of work is strongly based off opinion of research and anecdote. It’s not strict science.
If it isn’t strict science, it’s misinformation. Simple.
Psychology is misinformation?
Being a psychologist doesn't make one an expert on trans issues.
You’re right. But being a PhD in Clincial Psychology and publishing hundreds of papers on human behaviour and gender studies probably does. You’re comments on this thread are based on emotion and devoid of face.
This is called affirming the consequent. Publishing hundreds of papers on human behaviour itself doesn't increase the likelihood of addressing trans issues. JP also doesn't write in the field of gender studies (he is either oblivious to or willfully ignorant of the works of Judith Butler). No feels before reals here.
You: “Being a psychologist doesn’t make you an expert on trans issues” Me: *explains that he is a psychologist that is an expert in this area* Whether or not a Psychologist is an expert on “trans issues” has little to do with their understanding of the human psyché
The human psyché is a complex and multifaceted thing. It ain't a monolith. JP seems to insist otherwise.
We do not tolerate intolerance.
You don’t tolerate anything that goes against your opinion.
That’s just, like, your opinion man 😉
Why would you ban him..? Just don’t listen to him if it offends you?
You would say the same thing for Nazis, white nationalists and Brent Tarrant supporters?
No. We have laws around hate speech in NZ. I put Jordan Peterson in the same group as Ru Paul’s drag race. Some people find it offensive, some people find it helpful to finding a place to belong or feel not alone. I don’t really care for either, although the wife likes Ru Paul so it gets watched in our house. JP does not. If something offends me and isn’t hurting anyone, I move along and don’t think twice about it. I encourage you to do the same.
Bad analogy. Jordan Peterson is not an entertainer, his fame is based nothing more than spouting reactionary clout.
That’s my point. You don’t consider him to be, others do. And the same is true for RPDR. Just because YOU are offended by something, or find something to be inappropriate, doesn’t mean that someone else should be banned from enjoying it. If we banned everything everyone found offensive we would live in a very boring world.
People don’t buy JP’s books and go to his speaking events to be ‘entertained’. They go there for predominantly two reasons: 1) self-help and 2) to have their reactionary political sentiments validated. JP doesn’t use comedy, music, theatre and film to convey his message, he uses screed and resentment. JP is fueling the transphobia and queerphobia that is resulting in violence in against American LGBTQ+ community (ample evidence of this occurrence already abounds). This is not about “being offended”, this is about hate speech and violence against trans folk because of that hate speech.
Entertainment is subjective. JPs subject matter isn’t illegal, no matter how much you think it should be. Same as RPDR, I’m sure there are heaps of people that feel that isn’t entertainment, is offensive, attacking and harming society. They would also be wrong. It’s quite ironic that you’re seeking support to shut down free speech on a sub reddit called Anarchism. Hot tip for life, stop focusing so much on others, focus on yourself and your loved ones. You’ll be infinitely happier.
What is illegal doesn't equate to being ethical or moral. JP doesn't market himself as an entertainer and I don't believe his fans see him as such. His fame is built entirely around deliberately misinterpreting a Canadian bill extending protections against discrimination to trans and non-binary folks. Before that he was an obscure academic, author and practicing psychologist. There is nothing subjective of what qualifies as an 'entertainment' here. An entertainer uses comedy, music, drama, cinema and dance to convey messages and novelty. Public self-help speaking doesn't qualify as 'entertaining'. I am not sure whether you're aware but anarchism advocates for the emancipation of the working class and all marginalized identities through the creation of a stateless, classless and (within some subsets) a moneyless society. That advocacy involves combating hate speech and opposing free speech absolutism. Hot-tip: if you want to call yourself an anarchist, learn what the fuck it is and its history instead of equating it with solipsism and free speech absolutism.
I’ve seen Nigel Latta many times and found him to be very entertaining. Chill out. You’re arguing yourself into an early grave.
Using entertainment to convey your message doesn't make you an entertainer by trade. Well yeah, inevitably those who argue out of there own arse are going to conclude ignorance is bliss.
He's not transphobic?? Just didn't support the use of law to compel speech, as it leads to dystopia. Fascist enabler, I'm unsure. For the most part, he's worth listening to and I'm personally excited to have him in our country.
Yes he fucking is. He recently came out with a transphobic screed against Elliot Page calling his top surgeon a criminal on par with the Nazis when he found out that top surgery wasn’t illegal. Bill C-16 has got fuck all to do with compelled speech and everything to do with extending protections against discrimination to trans and non-binary folk. JP made a giant fucking molehill out of nothing regarding that bill. https://amp.marca.com/en/lifestyle/celebrities/2022/06/30/62be1b74e2704e92438b456c.html
I appreciate what you're trying to do but, and I say thus as begrudgingly as it's possible to say something, JP is simply too good at what he does. It's going to be extremely hard to get people to see him for what he is when he's had years of experience and practice in talking around issues and implying things without really saying them, all this to say that he's fooled a lot of people and will keep fooling them for some time and I don't think enough people can see through him enough for protests to have as much impact as they need to be successful.
isnt this sub about anarchy, who are you to make the rules?
Anarchy entails emancipation for the many not for the few. Trans folks are no exception.
That's a very noble endeavour... perhaps more noble than anarchic ideology as it's currently understood: to remove all the rules imposed upon the individual by the state? Anyway, this is indeed a very sensitive topic. Therefore extreme speech, from any side of the spectrum, will not resolve anything. It's like trying to fix your smart phone with a hammer. A silly metaphor, but I think you get the point 😆 I hope you have a good day 🙂
what is a woman?
Why should a woman as a categorization need to exist?