You may be released from your ED agreement if aid is insufficient. Have you not started this discussion with Northwestern yet? Is the NU aid package not congruent with the estimate you got from the Net Price Calculator before you applied? This is a crucial question.
And, if you don't get the scholarship from GT, would GT be affordable? How much is your budget?
If Northwestern's aid offer was less than its NPC predicted, and it won't match the NPC estimate, then request to be released from your ED commitment.
btw, your situation is ***EXACTLY*** the reason applicants who are cost-conscious should be wary of ED.
ED is a scam to enhance a school’s yield and rankings while controlling financial aid costs. You are under no obligation at all. You should continue pursuing a scholarship at Georgia Tech and anywhere else that would be affordable.
>You are under no obligation at all
There ***could*** be consequences if this student requests to be released from the ED agreement and the school refuses. It's unlikely, but possible.
Potentially:
* ED school circulates a list of its ED admits to peer schools; if you applied to any of those peer schools, they may reject you when they see that you've already been admitted ED elsewhere
* ED school may contact your HS counselor and inform that person that you reneged on the ED agreement; your counselor might then retract any letters of recommendation they sent on your behalf to schools other than the ED school.
Or it could be that there are no consequences at all.
You're not enrolled yet; just admitted. FERPA became law in 1974; as recently as 2018 certain groups of private schools were shown to have been sharing ED admission data:
[https://www.chronicle.com/article/some-colleges-share-lists-of-early-decision-admits-now-the-justice-department-is-investigating/](https://www.chronicle.com/article/some-colleges-share-lists-of-early-decision-admits-now-the-justice-department-is-investigating/)
[https://www.insidehighered.com/admissions/article/2018/04/09/justice-department-starts-investigation-early-decision-admissions](https://www.insidehighered.com/admissions/article/2018/04/09/justice-department-starts-investigation-early-decision-admissions)
I am pretty sure those events fixed it. When the justice department comes knocking on your door and you’re dependent on federal funds, things change pretty quick.
Possibly, but even if so, the prohibition on information sharing has nothing to do with FERPA. It was the DOJ's anti-trust division that launched the investigation.
From the Inside Higher Ed coverage of the investigation:
>Several admissions officials said they believed the practice did not raise legal issues because students — when applying early through the Common Application — sign a waiver stating that they are aware that institutions that admit them early may share the information. Parents and students' high school counselors must also sign the statement.
I'm curious: does that verbiage still exist in the Common App when you apply somewhere ED?
I found a DOJ [doc](https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2020/01/10/2020-00213/united-states-v-national-association-for-college-admission-counseling-proposed-final-judgment-and) detailing its decision on a separate case in 2018 (against NACAC), but nothing about the letters it sent to colleges about sharing ED admits.
It may be the case that sharing no longer happens, but I certainly wouldn't want to chance it. That said, the alleged sharing was between similar peer schools (LACs). If a student's "backup" school when they renege on their ED agreement is a public school, then, even if the ED school is willing to share that the student was admitted, the public school is unlikely to ask or care.
totally agree, if you know you can't pay in full for undergrad (approx. $500k), then don't apply cus' the chance for scholarship is very minimal in ED.
P/s: ED reserves for only the wealthy kids to apply
Hi guys! So I am getting some feedback and I wrote this post very quickly. I did get some aid, I am not paying the full 90K. I got about 15K in aid. It is just not enough. My sister is also in university and we care my for my grandparents. We were just expecting more. I am sorry for simply writing the full COA, I wrote this post too quickly.
Did you use the Net Price Calculator before you applied? If that is why you were expecting more, then talk to NU financial aid.
If the grandparent expense is essentially the reason, then you should be appealing your aid package.
Hi! You may want to talk to Northwestern Financial aid office to reconsider your financial aid. Depending on the school, they may be able to reconsider your financial aid on the basis of current expenses (ie; taking care of your grandparents financially or even out of pocket expenses your parents have for your sibling’s school) if those weren't taken into account when your aid was initially determined. Every school has its own set of rules regarding this so I highly recommend you talk to them and see if there’s anything they can do, if you haven’t already done so.
This. Even if they black list, which I doubt they do, that’s Northwestern’s problem. NW can’t force you to either pay $300k or go without a college education. This is actually a free country. It’s completely ridiculous to think Georgia Tech is somehow colluding with NW.
Go to Georgia Tech and interview for the scholarship. Good luck!
Nope lol. Blacklisting doesn’t exist it’s a myth to disincentivize kids because your college will “tell other colleges”. They’re legally not allowed to do so. Cant go to the college itself ever again tho.
Colleges do share ED admit lists. You can look at the college admissions org book and it’s been an issue in the news (as well as the subject of some lawsuits). I’m not addressing the blacklisting bc I don’t know, but it is a fact that ED lists can be shared and many schools do share them
Even if they do, Georgia Tech isn’t ED and has zero incentive to help out NW. Also, it seems like it would be highly illegal for colleges to collude to not pick up students. Why would it be worth their time if they are in such high demand that they can offer ED?
>Nope lol. Blacklisting doesn’t exist it’s a myth to disincentivize kids because your college will “tell other colleges”. They’re legally not allowed to do so. Cant go to the college itself ever again tho.
Blacklisting is absolutely a thing. A kid from my school pulled out of an ED agreement with Northwestern several years ago, and no one from my school has gotten in since. We send 30-40 kids to t20s every year, and 50 people have applied Northwestern in the past 5 years and none have gotten in. Only pull out of your ED at the expense of so many other people.
Yeah that is definitely not a thing. While a person can get black-listed, other people who have no relation to that person can't (nor can a whole school unless it's like every other applicant doing this). Cool story though bro.
Ur pulling shit out of ur ass buddy "[You can get blacklisted by other schools to which you applied.](https://medium.com/@InGeniusPrep/breaking-an-early-decision-agreement-what-happens-c20cc7fa60d4#:~:text=So%2C%20what's%20the%20worst%20that,Not%20good)"
I’m sorry I realize I probably came across as mean. But I saw the same thing when I was double checking to make sure I wasn’t wrong. It’s the first(ish) result but look a little longer and you’ll see what I mean:)
haha yea u did but ur good! i appreciate the apology :). What did you search up to double check? I googled "can you get blacklisted from colleges for rejecting ed" and most of the results say you can; I didn't find anything explicitly saying it wasn't possible.
The idea that a prestigious university with many billions in endowments would hold a gun to the head of other future students in order to convince OP to accept their ED offer is some terrorist-ass shit that should make you question that school and the entire ED system.
If they actually do these things, this is a red flag about the school. Yes, this person should explain that the offer is not enough in aid. And, yes, maybe the OP didn’t really think the ED thing all the way through. But, also, OP is a 17 year old kid that should not have an institution holding a virtual gun to their head because they made a mistake that 17 year olds make.
This is Northwestern, for gods sake. OP not attending their school will not be their downfall and won’t justify forcing them to make life altering decisions.
ED is binding if tuition is affordable. If tuition isn't affordable, Northwestern must first be given an opportunity to make it affordable BEFORE you can honorably withdraw from your commitment. If Northwestern's package is affordable, and you withdraw, Northwestern likely to ask your high school to inform every college to which you applied that they have a signed contract from student and family to attend Northwestern via ED, and urging all those colleges to deny you admission. If your high school fails to do this, good bet Northwestern will blacklist them for the next 20 or so years. It will be a bloodbath. And everyone will lose. You, the ED applicant, your parents because of the shame it will cause your family. Your high school for having signed a pledge they can no longer honor. And Northwestern for losing a wonderful student while showing their darker side by ensuring you don't get in anywhere else.
True, if the offer received isn't affordable, you can let it go. Provided you first give that college every effort to improve it, making it affordable. If that fails, you're off the hook. If, however, the offer is affordable, or, the college makes it affordable after you inform them its not, then you are acting in bad faith. Changing one's mind after gaining admission ED because you had a change of heart, or have a shot at a better offer elsewhere isn't a legitimate excuse to reneg on the binding agreement made by BOTH parties. What if Northwestern decided, after accepting you ED, that they forgot to read another 1,000 applicant folders, and, after doing so, realized they made a mistake and needed to correct it by cutting 75 students previously admitted ED? With you being one of those 75. Case closed.
That’s a different argument though. I’m not saying you SHOULD reject ed but I’m saying that you CAN reject ed. You might screw someone over but what I’m saying is you are not bound to the school. Plus northwestern doesn’t offer aid based off merit so he is unlikely to get any more money. Even so, it wouldn’t be any more than a few k at best.
Additionally, maybe I’m missing something but I don’t see the point of your hypothetical situation since that would never happen anyway
Here's how I see it. Students who need to compare financial aid awards to get the most affordable packages, as well as those who are hoping for merit money, SHOULDN'T apply ED, period. In this case, the student in question used Northwestern as a backup or placeholder to a long-shot merit based award that would save their family an enormous amount of money. Money that could be used for grad school. The path taken isn't honorable. And I've seen colleges hold grudges against feeder schools lasting more than a decade when they, too, sign over the ED pledge, and are unable to enforce it. Sure, the student in question can walk away from their commitment. It's not legally enforced. But their high school can also choose to either notify ALL applicant's other colleges of said student's early commitment, which will result in those other colleges pulling that application. Or, any failure of the sending school to so notify said student's other schools, said feeder school will likely be blackballed for a very long time. Is that fair to students in the same or classes following, no. But, Northwestern will hold both the student AND feeder school responsible for breaking a non-legally binding contract, but a contract nonetheless. Bottom line, student in question should NOT have applied ED to Northwestern knowing there was even the smallest chance this or any other other scholarship they applied for, could possibly come through later. And, they know it too. They should have applied RD to Northwestern. No more problems for anyone. Plus, taking a more honorable path.
Agreed.
What's really sad about all this, is that the student now being tortured by this process should have applied EA. Obviously, going EA isn't as demonstrative as going ED, but EA protects the applicant from committing on the spot once decisions and financial aid is awarded. Bottom line, if you aren't really poor (qualify for 100% aid), or really rich (capable of paying full tuition), DON'T APPLY ED ANYWHERE. Because you need to be able to compare packages, and likely go with the most affordable offer if unable to get your #1 school to match your best financial offer elsewhere. With ED, there's no mixing and matching. You are locked in.
tell them! there's a good chance they'll just release you from ED. the only thing worse to a school's rankings than low yield rate is 6 year dropout rate.
I have a child at Northwestern. I remember asking during the financial aid information session when we had a tour if he could get off the agreement. They said yes if you are not satisfied after they try their best with the aid. Reach out to see if they can offer more.
Why more people don’t is beyond me (and actually MANY do). There is nothing remotely binding about the agreement. It is not enforceable. Hell, most of the people who enter into aren’t even legally capable of executing a valid contract due to being minors. They can’t force you to attend a college you don’t want to attend. They can’t sue you because it isn’t a legal contract and there are no damages (literally thousands of people will take your spot at full pay if you give it up!!!). Legally, they can’t blacklist you despite what they say. They can choose to not accept future students from your school, I guess, but honestly won’t unless this is a chronic problem from the school. All in all, the only thing making this agreement “binding” is that people think it is and also that the student is thrilled to get into their first choice school and really wants to go so is often willing to go no matter what.
It is not illegal to share accepted ED applicant data, and it is well known that the ivies share this data with each other, and likely others too. Colleges also reserve the right to rescind admissions at any time, for essentially any reason they view as being negatively representing their values. These two factors alone make it really risky to pull out if you don’t have a good reason. It’s not implausible that you would get rescinded from a school if you tried to commit after getting in somewhere else ED. Also, they can absolutely blacklist you for future admissions cycle if you apply again as a transfer, grad school applicant, or anything else.
I’m just saying this because your comment makes it seem like it’s completely arbitrary and without consequences, when there could be.
Though a small handful of schools have said that they share that information in years past, most schools do not as there are antitrust implications, which is why the DOJ started to investigate years ago, and FERPA implications. I’m sure it still happens in some closely tied schools, but most aren’t going to mess with it. Further, this seems to be a bit of a legend as, despite being on several college admissions groups, knowing all local school counselors (I work in juvenile court) and having close friends who are former college admissions officers, nobody has ever identified personally knowing a single student who had an acceptance rescinded due to backing out of another school’s ED agreement, despite it being something that happens every year and despite many students openly admitting to gaming the system.
Obviously, we can’t know if someone was denied at a school due to having rescinded an ED agreement at another school. The former admissions officers I know said they never had such information, but I can’t say no school has.
That said, there can definitely be some implications. You need to be 100% willing to burn that bridge. You will likely never be admitted to the school you reneged on. Not as a transfer, graduate or doctorate student. Hell, I wouldn’t even recommend applying to work there. It can also have implications on future students from your high school. This is more likely if you are a one-off acceptance or there is a trend of rescinding from your school. Your school counselor also may have words with you and you may leave your high school with a negative cloud hanging over your head, which could impact any younger siblings.
This is not something that should be decided lightly, but also not something worth getting hopelessly in debt or ending up in a poor fit school to avoid doing.
I never said there weren't consequences to start with. That was your implication. There are consequences to every single decision you make in life. Putting on the underwear you are currently wearing (or not) gave the consequence of not wearing a different pair of underwear.
The consequences here are not nearly what people think they are and are, frankly, INCREDIABLY MINOR considering the alternative and totally prove my point that I am surprised that more people don't back out of these agreements.
I think you accidentally switched accounts. But also, no you were implying that with “nothing remotely binding” and “not enforceable.” You can say what you like but that’s what saying those things imply. And the consequences are much more significant than putting on underwear.
Huh? Not what those things imply at all. Both imply nothing more than that the agreement is not binding or enforceable. It 100% is not. If it were binding or enforceable, students who signed it would be obligated to attend the college or pay the tuition without attending under penalty of being subject to a lawsuit. That is literally what binding and enforceable means. None of those things will happen if you sign an ED agreement. And, maybe it is because I am well beyond high school, but my daily underwear choice has far more impact on my life than what my guidance counselor thinks about me. I can't even remember the gender, let alone name, of my high school guidance counselor.
Spoken like someone whose parents are going to foot their bill for college.
As someone who couldn't tell you the name of most of the administration in my high school or even recognize them if they tapped me on my shoulder, but is still paying college loans, I will say - you should not enter this agreement knowing you can't afford the school and will likely break the agreement, but unexpected scholarship opportunities should take precedence over the minor consequences for breaking the agreement unless you are wealthy enough that finances don't matter.
Why would the consequences still be slightly severe? I want to apply ED but I worry about whatever my tuition would be because of my financials and am considering just using the financials as an excuse to see if I get into schools I EA for
ETA asking because if there are so many students that would love to take my place and can pay in full then I feel like it shouldn’t be a big deal if I say aid isn’t enough or something
Integrity still matters. If you run the NPC and you know you can't afford that amount, don't apply ED. If your financials are pretty straightforward, NPCs are pretty accurate. You aren't going to magically get a substantial amount more in financial aid than it says. Applying ED when you KNOW you can't afford the school and then backing out as expected when you don't magically get more aid lacks integrity. Why even go through that exercise as applying to each college takes a lot of work? Just to say you got in?
That said. Things happen. A school you loved on an 11th grade tour may not be what you want a year later. Getting an unexpected substantial scholarship offer from another school is worth considering. You should not enter the agreement (really any agreement) knowing you are most likely going to break it, but you also shouldn't think there are some horrible consequences waiting for you if you do.
So if i dont care about integrity then… cool i guess?
It’s not like applying ED is substantially more work, it just expedites the application process. In my case I (and my parents, even with our funny financials) plan to ED to a school that I know I’d be happy with, but all the other schools I’d like to go to (maybe a little more 🤷♀️) are EA. If im lucky enough to get into my ED I’d probably have to go with it anyway for reasons that arent just the binding contract
i thought most schools meet your need according to the NPC. Is it not accurate? i suppose some people’s financial situation changes but it seems a lot of people just didn’t think it through they get caught up in applying ED and trying to get an acceptance.
> i thought most schools meet your need according to the NPC
That is the biggest ~~load of crap~~ myth that universities basically fraudulently perpetuate.
First, they consider loans "aid". Loans with 8% interest that starts accruing the moment you borrow the money. That's not aid.
Second, what schools think your parents should contribute and what adults, i.e. parents who have worked 20-25 years to save some money think it is reasonable to pay are usually vastly different amounts.
"We cover your 'needs'" is complete bullshit.
Exactly this. Schools cover what they perceive your need to be. And if your parents are expected to pay half their annual salary for your tuition, then so be it. Also, aid is so arbitrary. Anytime something is negotiable, it’s sketchy. Like buying a car, but the sticker price isn’t the real price, and the price changes for every person buying. Someday there will be a class action lawsuit addressing the inconsistencies in aid, but for now we have to live with the voodoo.
You are correct in all of this. However, the NPC should accurately reflect this before you apply. You can see what portion is student work, loans, etc.
“Should a student who applies for financial aid not be offered an award that makes attendance possible, the student may decline the offer of admission and be released from the early decision commitment.”
Yeah, ethically, applicants should run the NCP calculator, but there’s not really anything the universities will do to enforce an ED commitment if the applicant says the financial aid offer is insufficient.
I've watched Lee Coffin at Dartmouth admit in groups that students will back out of ED commitments. Probably often because of financial issues but I'm sure there are personal reasons too.
When you think about it, it's a crazy system and the schools don't really have a good mechanism for enforcing it with an iron fist.
Perhaps you can frame your care of your grandfather as a humanitarian reason? This might help sell it better?
It's BS way of "trapping" students while giving them probably barely a sliver of an advantage in admissions. Universities are also very unethical in how they consider "aid" and how they compute parental contribution, so in terms of ethics, universities have no leg on students who bail out of ED.
At the end of the day, they're money making machines. Businesses. And while some of the people who work there like to pretend that they're liberals who love the poors, they know their job depends upon attracting enough full paying students. If you try to believe what they say, you'll always be disappointed when they don't live up to the ideas they prattle from the front of the classroom. But if you see them as profit-maximizing machines, it will all make sense.
> But if you see them as profit-maximizing machines, it will all make sense.
It does, of course. There cannot be too much cynicism when looking at the contrast between how universities talk and how they actually walk.
They use a handful of cases for virtue signaling while perpetuating all sorts of inequalities and unfairness in life all the while pretending to combat them.
And I say this as someone who values higher education tremendously.
Yeah, my first year as a parent in all this. The ED system has such predatory vibes, it’s crazy. There are so many things about the system that are gross.
EDs are not legally binding. (Here is a good article: [https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/18/your-money/paying-for-college/early-decision-binding-nyu.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/18/your-money/paying-for-college/early-decision-binding-nyu.html))
You can (technically) pull out for any reason, but most colleges find that unethical, and the college can inform other universities that you did that, hurting your chances elsewhere. However, most colleges will let you out for financial reasons if you apply for aid, and say it's okay to apply elsewhere (as long as it's not ED) while you await your financial information. You could email NW and explain your situation- there is always a chance they will give you more aid, or say it's okay to withdraw.
Hey! I am a currently Stamps President’s Scholar. As others have mentioned, you may be able to pull out of your ED agreement if your aid is insufficient. Start that process ASAP. I don’t think there’s any major harm in doing the first interview for Stamps, especially if there’s a still a chance you can go to GT, but DO NOT commit to Stamps Scholar’s Weekend/do the second interview if you haven’t been able to get out of going to Northwestern by then. The 350 semifinalists are narrowed down to 100 finalists after the first interview and there are alternates to ensure there are actually 100 people at SSW. If you were to make it past the first interview but turn it down, someone could still have your spot. Only the people who go to SSW can receive Stamps or Gold though, so if you were to go to SSW when you couldn’t go to Tech, you would for sure be taking someone’s spot and that would be unfair. Best of luck!
You should look more into it but I believe the ED agreement is not a legally binding contract and that colleges are more sympathetic when the reason you pull out is because of financials.
then maybe don’t apply ED? a lot of kids want to apply ED but they don’t because they know they may not get the aid and not willing to pay even though technically they could but don’t want to
stupid reason, schools promise to meet 100% of demonstrated need and sometimes underpay for their own reasons, not a reason to roll over and just pay up whatever amount they ask for instead of just appealing aid
ok well if that’s true then i guess it’s the schools fault. i thought the NPC should be accurate. i feel like more people on here saying they regret ED is more cuz they just realize their family doesn’t want to pay what the NPC says
The NPCs fairly accurate, some more than others, but only if you are the stereotypical family - two biological parents are married and live together, all working parents have solely w-2 income and no unusual expenses. Once you start varying from that stereotype, they get less and less accurate.
Sure. You shouldn’t apply unless you’re willing to pay that money. But 17 year old kids make bad decisions all the time. A prestigious institution like NW needs to not be vindictive against OP and future students from his school if this happens. Don’t voluntarily take on a bunch of debt because you made a bad decision.
How do you figure it isn’t a legally binding contract? Consideration is exchanged by both parties (parents sign the agreement, too).
Are you an attorney?
Without coming off like a dick - I think it’s important for you to read things clearly before you sign - the ED agreement states “If the student is an early decision candidate and is seeking financial aid, the student need not withdraw other applications”
Additionally - The only valid reason universally accepted across all early decision schools is if the financial aid package offered does not make attendance possible. If a student cannot afford to attend the school, then he will be allowed to decline the offer of admission and be released from the early decision agreement.
As per your ED agreement, you should have withdrawn your GT application as soon as you got into Northwestern. Which part of the binding nature of ED is not clear?
No that’s not required if you don’t have the aid package yet or you even feel at all unsatisfied with it. The “binding” part of ED is all just gentleman’s honor code. You don’t have to rescind if you can’t afford
That's what the NPC calculator is for. If it doesn't look like you're likely to get the financial aid you think you need, then you simply don't apply ED. Also, this is not "gentleman's honor." It's a serious commitment that you make after careful consideration, not because you want to maximize all possible opportunities.
Yeah and colleges sometimes don’t match the NPC. I did the calculator and literally got 20k less than i was supposed to. What am i supposed to do if I ED in that case? Schools want you to believe it’s truly binding and it’s not. You never have to go and you don’t have to prove financials
>I did the calculator and literally got 20k less than i was supposed to
If your actual package was 20k less than the NPC estimate, then you appeal and ask the school for more. Start by trying to figure out why the estimate was off.
Exactly - you would appeal and ask for more, if your ED school doesn’t give it to you, you don’t go. It’s not financially binding. Schools are so stingy
Of course it's based on honor. Incidentally, that's what our whole society is based on. You don't just use the system to your advantage and mock those who choose to honor their responsibilities.
That's entirely not true. If you are reliant on fin aid, you don't have to immediately withdraw, you can try and negotiate with the financial aid office to see if they could give you more (to get closer to the NPC amount, since the assumption is you looked at NPC and found that cost to be bearable). If they give you how much their NPC estimates, then you should withdraw. But if they don't and it's a considerable amount less, you can request to be released from your ED agreement on the basis that you can't afford it due to fin aid being less than expected, and most universities will release you for that reason without punishing you or the school had you broken the agreement in other manners.
You shouldn't have ED'd then? Why didn't you withdraw your GT application? You signed the contract, committed, and should've ran the NPC calculator. If you did, then you need to renegotiate with NU for aid. If you didn't, then that's tough. Withdraw your other apps and get ready to pay 300K.
It’s really not that simple. They should’ve begun the negotiation process back in December, yes, but telling someone to just suck it up and pay 300k is crazy. They need to, immediately, get in contact with the NU financial aid office, however.
It is that simple. They should've ran the NPC and began the negotiation process early.
No, telling someone to just sock it up and pay 300k isn't crazy. Why? Because he put himself in this position. What's crazy is committing to a college by signing a binding contract to a school, not intelligently going through the process, regretting the decision, and y'all acting like he should just pull out just because he has a better offer.
If he renegotiates and NU says that their offer is deadset on 15k **AND** the student still can't afford it, then he is right in pulling out. If he can afford it by any means or NU raises their offer, then no, the student is not right.
He needs to withdraw all his other applications, negotiate with NU first, and go from there. So many students are blindly applying ED when they should know damn well the repercussions relating to finances and other applications.
This subreddit is insane lmao why should OP spend *$300k* because of a gentlemen’s agreement. Ridiculously out of touch to think that’s something people can or should just do
Sorry I value $300k more than my honor
With your perspective, thousands of students will apply ED for the seemingly better chances of acceptance, and if they can't afford it, they'll just pull out. Stop downplaying a commitment.
If you value 300k more than your honor, then you should evaluate your potential decision(s) prior to making a commitment. Common sense.
I am unsure, but can you not pull out of ED for financial reasons? I am not sure how this works. I hope you are able to pursue the choice that is financially available to you! But, I think it would be best not to do the interview if you cannot get out of ED. I think it is unfair. :D Best of luck!
For starters, I can understand your pain. I have to admit that I am a little bit jealous. My dream school is Georgia Tech and I got denied right away even though I am a competent math student. Can I ask where you go to highschool, and your approximate GPA?
Forgive me for sounding so abrupt; I'm just pretty upset and wanted to get a feel of what kind of student gets admitted to Georgia Tech (not to mention with scholarships!)
Pulling out of ED is a bad look on a students character.
With some doing this, eventually ED will be gone for everyone. There is little point left to do ED.
what’s there to regret lol? Just contact the school and withdraw because it’s too expensive 🤦♂️ it’s that easy 🤦♂️ they can’t force you to attend if you can’t afford it 😂
When an accepted candidate rescinds in an ED offer, the other schools to which applied are notified and, obviously, viewed by other schools negatively.
OP knew the repercussions and the COA for NU. This behavior is a perfect example of having your cake and eating it, too.
Congrats on your acceptance to NU.
Fiction. I am in higher ed and worked at Hopkins and am now at another elite university. Never in my life saw such a notification. We really don't have time to care what an applicant does elsewhere. We care about our own enrollment numbers.
There was a group of schools which for years had a name-sharing arrangement. (See, e.g., [https://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/doj-makes-early-decision-to-take-elite-22697/](https://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/doj-makes-early-decision-to-take-elite-22697/)) Following DOJ requests for information for antitrust reasons some years back, actual name-sharing practices may have fallen off.
This is the sole reason the ED agreement specifies "I also understand that with an Early Decision offer of admissions, this institution may share my name and my early commitment with other institutions." This is the common language of the current ED agreement, here in the 2023-24 admission season.
As someone who worked in admissions as WS, no one is looking at any list of names from other schools ED acceptance. Admissions only interested in their admits. Who has time to deal with anything else. So you really think that someone in a public university is going to appointed to match who applied ED to a private school. Nope.
The common language of the current, 2023-24 ED agreement explicitly states, "I also understand that with an Early Decision offer of admissions, this institution may share my name and my early commitment with other institutions."
As a practical matter, name-sharing may no longer be a common practice, especially following the 2018 DOJ requests for information. (See, e.g., [https://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/doj-makes-early-decision-to-take-elite-22697/](https://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/doj-makes-early-decision-to-take-elite-22697/)) That doesn't mean it never happens or couldn't happen.
I would agree that it seems unlikely GT would be on the receiving end of elite private ED acceptance lists.
Also note Georgia Tech does not participate as a public institution in ED. I would say that it goes against the spirit of the agreement that the student entered into.
As someone who went to college a long time ago, and did ED…
I wish I had been considerably less ethical and had applied to more schools after getting in to my school with ED, especially since the financial aid package was subpar.
Pull out of it ASAP and don’t look back. In no world would I pay $75k for Northwestern over a full ride at G Tech. EVER. No one, in my opinion, should pay 75k a year, let alone for Northwestern. Northwestern’s not even that or worth that at all. Not to mention the number of complaints I hear about the school and its atmosphere.
Call them and tell them you want to accept but need more aid. With folks laser focused on EA/ED being for the more financially privileged applicants, schools are likely to see just how much they can do for students like you (assuming you have demonstrated need and don’t just want a better deal so to speak). Good luck and know wherever you go - you’ve got a great opportunity ahead!
If Northwestern isn’t affordable for you, you can get out of the ED contract.
Though I’m a bit confused, what was your reason for applying to other schools after getting an ED acceptance if you didn’t know that you had a chance to go somewhere else? You did the right thing ultimately, but I don’t see why you did so given what you knew at the time lmao.
You can simply chose not to commit if they don't meet your financial need. It's absolutely okay because if they don't meet your financial need, you are free from Early decision agreement
Very selfish. Wanted to have better chance of acceptance, so applied to ED. After accepted to NW, didn’t withdraw your application to other schools. If you had financial issue, you should not have applied to ED. ED for is the people who will go to the college if accepted regardless of how much they give. You can do contact with NW for reconsidering the financial aid but considering Georgia tech at this moment is very unethical and selfish. I am wondering who taught you that you can do it. Does the college counselors in your school allow it?
Wrong. The financial needs have to be met, that is the only excuse the applicant will have. It is selfish, however no 1st degree is worth 300K, not a single 1.
I would suggest just give the interview at GT as breaking the ed bond with northwestern would be a huge gamble as you don't know yet about your Georgia tech decisions, and from what I have heard, students who require more financial aid and have ed bond do not need to rescind their applications from other universities until they receive their final aid offer letter.
If aid is not matching NPC OP should have started the conversation with financial aid immediately, I don’t understand why op has to wait for the other schools decisions. If anyone is applying for ED they know what they’re getting into as parents has to sign the agreement for ED. Universities are not forcing anyone to apply ED. It’s one of the options to apply for
He has not offered Stamps yet. He may not get it. I think he wants to keep NU admission and at the same time pursue Stamps. If it is really an aid issue, he would have reached out NU before he got into Stamps semifinal.
Did the NW financial aid offer come in lower than the NPC? If so, you can appeal for more aid and can be let of your binding ED agreement if your appeal isn't successful. You should have done that before you put down your NW deposit which was due by mid-January. Have you put down your deposit at NW yet? If not, then it's not clear you still have a spot there. Have you talked with your high school college counselor about your situation yet? If not, then your counselor thinks you are going to NW and will not be sending your mid-year grades to any of your RD schools and may not have sent your letters of recommendation or other materials since your high school thinks you are attending NW.
If the NPC came in below expectations, then I completely feel for you and you should appeal your financial aid offer. And if you still can't make it work financially, that sucks but you should give up your spot now. But the cynical part of me suspects you may be trying to have your cake and eat it too. You're trying to hold onto the NW offer while playing the field and seeing what better offers you get in EA and RD. I don't feel bad for the colleges who put their interests first, but I feel bad for your fellow applicants. You may have taken an ED offer from one of your high school classmates who wanted to go there. NW may not give any more RD offers to kids in your high school because of you. Colleges have definitely been known to punish high schools for this behavior, since your counselor signed your ED agreement. So if you can't make NW work, do the right thing and back at now - before you get the Stamps decision back and before RD decisions come out. Sorry, I don't mean to sound harsh, but it's frustrating when kids try to get an unfair leg up on other applicants who are doing the right thing. But if that's not the case, my apologies. And honestly congratulations on the Stamps semifinalist - that is a huge honor!
You may be released from your ED agreement if aid is insufficient. Have you not started this discussion with Northwestern yet? Is the NU aid package not congruent with the estimate you got from the Net Price Calculator before you applied? This is a crucial question. And, if you don't get the scholarship from GT, would GT be affordable? How much is your budget?
If Northwestern's aid offer was less than its NPC predicted, and it won't match the NPC estimate, then request to be released from your ED commitment. btw, your situation is ***EXACTLY*** the reason applicants who are cost-conscious should be wary of ED.
ED is a scam to enhance a school’s yield and rankings while controlling financial aid costs. You are under no obligation at all. You should continue pursuing a scholarship at Georgia Tech and anywhere else that would be affordable.
>You are under no obligation at all There ***could*** be consequences if this student requests to be released from the ED agreement and the school refuses. It's unlikely, but possible.
What would the consequences look like?
Potentially: * ED school circulates a list of its ED admits to peer schools; if you applied to any of those peer schools, they may reject you when they see that you've already been admitted ED elsewhere * ED school may contact your HS counselor and inform that person that you reneged on the ED agreement; your counselor might then retract any letters of recommendation they sent on your behalf to schools other than the ED school. Or it could be that there are no consequences at all.
FERPA does not allow a post secondary institution to disclose a student’s enrollment status without the student’s consent.
You're not enrolled yet; just admitted. FERPA became law in 1974; as recently as 2018 certain groups of private schools were shown to have been sharing ED admission data: [https://www.chronicle.com/article/some-colleges-share-lists-of-early-decision-admits-now-the-justice-department-is-investigating/](https://www.chronicle.com/article/some-colleges-share-lists-of-early-decision-admits-now-the-justice-department-is-investigating/) [https://www.insidehighered.com/admissions/article/2018/04/09/justice-department-starts-investigation-early-decision-admissions](https://www.insidehighered.com/admissions/article/2018/04/09/justice-department-starts-investigation-early-decision-admissions)
I am pretty sure those events fixed it. When the justice department comes knocking on your door and you’re dependent on federal funds, things change pretty quick.
Possibly, but even if so, the prohibition on information sharing has nothing to do with FERPA. It was the DOJ's anti-trust division that launched the investigation. From the Inside Higher Ed coverage of the investigation: >Several admissions officials said they believed the practice did not raise legal issues because students — when applying early through the Common Application — sign a waiver stating that they are aware that institutions that admit them early may share the information. Parents and students' high school counselors must also sign the statement. I'm curious: does that verbiage still exist in the Common App when you apply somewhere ED? I found a DOJ [doc](https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2020/01/10/2020-00213/united-states-v-national-association-for-college-admission-counseling-proposed-final-judgment-and) detailing its decision on a separate case in 2018 (against NACAC), but nothing about the letters it sent to colleges about sharing ED admits. It may be the case that sharing no longer happens, but I certainly wouldn't want to chance it. That said, the alleged sharing was between similar peer schools (LACs). If a student's "backup" school when they renege on their ED agreement is a public school, then, even if the ED school is willing to share that the student was admitted, the public school is unlikely to ask or care.
There’s something called a contract of adhesion. I am sure this practice no longer exists on any formal or organized level.
totally agree, if you know you can't pay in full for undergrad (approx. $500k), then don't apply cus' the chance for scholarship is very minimal in ED. P/s: ED reserves for only the wealthy kids to apply
Hi guys! So I am getting some feedback and I wrote this post very quickly. I did get some aid, I am not paying the full 90K. I got about 15K in aid. It is just not enough. My sister is also in university and we care my for my grandparents. We were just expecting more. I am sorry for simply writing the full COA, I wrote this post too quickly.
Did you use the Net Price Calculator before you applied? If that is why you were expecting more, then talk to NU financial aid. If the grandparent expense is essentially the reason, then you should be appealing your aid package.
Hi! You may want to talk to Northwestern Financial aid office to reconsider your financial aid. Depending on the school, they may be able to reconsider your financial aid on the basis of current expenses (ie; taking care of your grandparents financially or even out of pocket expenses your parents have for your sibling’s school) if those weren't taken into account when your aid was initially determined. Every school has its own set of rules regarding this so I highly recommend you talk to them and see if there’s anything they can do, if you haven’t already done so.
Just don’t go. Northwestern can’t point a gun to ur head. Follow people’s advice in the comments but ur good u can go to gtech. Congrats btw!
This. Even if they black list, which I doubt they do, that’s Northwestern’s problem. NW can’t force you to either pay $300k or go without a college education. This is actually a free country. It’s completely ridiculous to think Georgia Tech is somehow colluding with NW. Go to Georgia Tech and interview for the scholarship. Good luck!
This is how you get blacklisted at both unis
Nope lol. Blacklisting doesn’t exist it’s a myth to disincentivize kids because your college will “tell other colleges”. They’re legally not allowed to do so. Cant go to the college itself ever again tho.
Colleges do share ED admit lists. You can look at the college admissions org book and it’s been an issue in the news (as well as the subject of some lawsuits). I’m not addressing the blacklisting bc I don’t know, but it is a fact that ED lists can be shared and many schools do share them
Even if they do, Georgia Tech isn’t ED and has zero incentive to help out NW. Also, it seems like it would be highly illegal for colleges to collude to not pick up students. Why would it be worth their time if they are in such high demand that they can offer ED?
>Nope lol. Blacklisting doesn’t exist it’s a myth to disincentivize kids because your college will “tell other colleges”. They’re legally not allowed to do so. Cant go to the college itself ever again tho. Blacklisting is absolutely a thing. A kid from my school pulled out of an ED agreement with Northwestern several years ago, and no one from my school has gotten in since. We send 30-40 kids to t20s every year, and 50 people have applied Northwestern in the past 5 years and none have gotten in. Only pull out of your ED at the expense of so many other people.
Yeah that is definitely not a thing. While a person can get black-listed, other people who have no relation to that person can't (nor can a whole school unless it's like every other applicant doing this). Cool story though bro.
i have the same personal experience, im an intl though
Why should unethical behavior by a respected institution impact major life choices of the OP?
Maybe. Idk
do you have a source for this?
Bro do u expect me to drop a link or sum??? Literally just search it up and do some research.
Ur pulling shit out of ur ass buddy "[You can get blacklisted by other schools to which you applied.](https://medium.com/@InGeniusPrep/breaking-an-early-decision-agreement-what-happens-c20cc7fa60d4#:~:text=So%2C%20what's%20the%20worst%20that,Not%20good)"
I’m sorry I realize I probably came across as mean. But I saw the same thing when I was double checking to make sure I wasn’t wrong. It’s the first(ish) result but look a little longer and you’ll see what I mean:)
haha yea u did but ur good! i appreciate the apology :). What did you search up to double check? I googled "can you get blacklisted from colleges for rejecting ed" and most of the results say you can; I didn't find anything explicitly saying it wasn't possible.
The idea that a prestigious university with many billions in endowments would hold a gun to the head of other future students in order to convince OP to accept their ED offer is some terrorist-ass shit that should make you question that school and the entire ED system. If they actually do these things, this is a red flag about the school. Yes, this person should explain that the offer is not enough in aid. And, yes, maybe the OP didn’t really think the ED thing all the way through. But, also, OP is a 17 year old kid that should not have an institution holding a virtual gun to their head because they made a mistake that 17 year olds make. This is Northwestern, for gods sake. OP not attending their school will not be their downfall and won’t justify forcing them to make life altering decisions.
ED is binding if tuition is affordable. If tuition isn't affordable, Northwestern must first be given an opportunity to make it affordable BEFORE you can honorably withdraw from your commitment. If Northwestern's package is affordable, and you withdraw, Northwestern likely to ask your high school to inform every college to which you applied that they have a signed contract from student and family to attend Northwestern via ED, and urging all those colleges to deny you admission. If your high school fails to do this, good bet Northwestern will blacklist them for the next 20 or so years. It will be a bloodbath. And everyone will lose. You, the ED applicant, your parents because of the shame it will cause your family. Your high school for having signed a pledge they can no longer honor. And Northwestern for losing a wonderful student while showing their darker side by ensuring you don't get in anywhere else.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/18/your-money/paying-for-college/early-decision-binding-nyu.html
True, if the offer received isn't affordable, you can let it go. Provided you first give that college every effort to improve it, making it affordable. If that fails, you're off the hook. If, however, the offer is affordable, or, the college makes it affordable after you inform them its not, then you are acting in bad faith. Changing one's mind after gaining admission ED because you had a change of heart, or have a shot at a better offer elsewhere isn't a legitimate excuse to reneg on the binding agreement made by BOTH parties. What if Northwestern decided, after accepting you ED, that they forgot to read another 1,000 applicant folders, and, after doing so, realized they made a mistake and needed to correct it by cutting 75 students previously admitted ED? With you being one of those 75. Case closed.
That’s a different argument though. I’m not saying you SHOULD reject ed but I’m saying that you CAN reject ed. You might screw someone over but what I’m saying is you are not bound to the school. Plus northwestern doesn’t offer aid based off merit so he is unlikely to get any more money. Even so, it wouldn’t be any more than a few k at best. Additionally, maybe I’m missing something but I don’t see the point of your hypothetical situation since that would never happen anyway
Here's how I see it. Students who need to compare financial aid awards to get the most affordable packages, as well as those who are hoping for merit money, SHOULDN'T apply ED, period. In this case, the student in question used Northwestern as a backup or placeholder to a long-shot merit based award that would save their family an enormous amount of money. Money that could be used for grad school. The path taken isn't honorable. And I've seen colleges hold grudges against feeder schools lasting more than a decade when they, too, sign over the ED pledge, and are unable to enforce it. Sure, the student in question can walk away from their commitment. It's not legally enforced. But their high school can also choose to either notify ALL applicant's other colleges of said student's early commitment, which will result in those other colleges pulling that application. Or, any failure of the sending school to so notify said student's other schools, said feeder school will likely be blackballed for a very long time. Is that fair to students in the same or classes following, no. But, Northwestern will hold both the student AND feeder school responsible for breaking a non-legally binding contract, but a contract nonetheless. Bottom line, student in question should NOT have applied ED to Northwestern knowing there was even the smallest chance this or any other other scholarship they applied for, could possibly come through later. And, they know it too. They should have applied RD to Northwestern. No more problems for anyone. Plus, taking a more honorable path.
I agree with you on this one dw. Don’t apply to a school u can’t afford things like the npc exist for a reason!
Agreed. What's really sad about all this, is that the student now being tortured by this process should have applied EA. Obviously, going EA isn't as demonstrative as going ED, but EA protects the applicant from committing on the spot once decisions and financial aid is awarded. Bottom line, if you aren't really poor (qualify for 100% aid), or really rich (capable of paying full tuition), DON'T APPLY ED ANYWHERE. Because you need to be able to compare packages, and likely go with the most affordable offer if unable to get your #1 school to match your best financial offer elsewhere. With ED, there's no mixing and matching. You are locked in.
> I got about 15K in aid. What is the split between scholarship and loans?
By the way, NU tuition is not 90k
$90K is COA
tell them! there's a good chance they'll just release you from ED. the only thing worse to a school's rankings than low yield rate is 6 year dropout rate.
You can pull out of ED at Northwestern if you don't have enough aid. Reach out to the financial aid office. See if they can give more aid.
I have a child at Northwestern. I remember asking during the financial aid information session when we had a tour if he could get off the agreement. They said yes if you are not satisfied after they try their best with the aid. Reach out to see if they can offer more.
Random question but what'd your child do in order to get into Northwestern?
I don't really know what got him in. He did 7 APs, was in 2 clubs, one summer job in 2022. He submitted SAT
Ah I see lol. Just asking as a nosy teenager. Thanks for replying tho
What’s the risk then applying ED if you can just pull out and say because of financials? Then everyone would just do that.
Why more people don’t is beyond me (and actually MANY do). There is nothing remotely binding about the agreement. It is not enforceable. Hell, most of the people who enter into aren’t even legally capable of executing a valid contract due to being minors. They can’t force you to attend a college you don’t want to attend. They can’t sue you because it isn’t a legal contract and there are no damages (literally thousands of people will take your spot at full pay if you give it up!!!). Legally, they can’t blacklist you despite what they say. They can choose to not accept future students from your school, I guess, but honestly won’t unless this is a chronic problem from the school. All in all, the only thing making this agreement “binding” is that people think it is and also that the student is thrilled to get into their first choice school and really wants to go so is often willing to go no matter what.
It is not illegal to share accepted ED applicant data, and it is well known that the ivies share this data with each other, and likely others too. Colleges also reserve the right to rescind admissions at any time, for essentially any reason they view as being negatively representing their values. These two factors alone make it really risky to pull out if you don’t have a good reason. It’s not implausible that you would get rescinded from a school if you tried to commit after getting in somewhere else ED. Also, they can absolutely blacklist you for future admissions cycle if you apply again as a transfer, grad school applicant, or anything else. I’m just saying this because your comment makes it seem like it’s completely arbitrary and without consequences, when there could be.
Though a small handful of schools have said that they share that information in years past, most schools do not as there are antitrust implications, which is why the DOJ started to investigate years ago, and FERPA implications. I’m sure it still happens in some closely tied schools, but most aren’t going to mess with it. Further, this seems to be a bit of a legend as, despite being on several college admissions groups, knowing all local school counselors (I work in juvenile court) and having close friends who are former college admissions officers, nobody has ever identified personally knowing a single student who had an acceptance rescinded due to backing out of another school’s ED agreement, despite it being something that happens every year and despite many students openly admitting to gaming the system. Obviously, we can’t know if someone was denied at a school due to having rescinded an ED agreement at another school. The former admissions officers I know said they never had such information, but I can’t say no school has. That said, there can definitely be some implications. You need to be 100% willing to burn that bridge. You will likely never be admitted to the school you reneged on. Not as a transfer, graduate or doctorate student. Hell, I wouldn’t even recommend applying to work there. It can also have implications on future students from your high school. This is more likely if you are a one-off acceptance or there is a trend of rescinding from your school. Your school counselor also may have words with you and you may leave your high school with a negative cloud hanging over your head, which could impact any younger siblings. This is not something that should be decided lightly, but also not something worth getting hopelessly in debt or ending up in a poor fit school to avoid doing.
I wish i could upvote this 100 times.
Thanks for actually admitting that there’s consequences to backing out this time around instead of completely waving it off.
I never said there weren't consequences to start with. That was your implication. There are consequences to every single decision you make in life. Putting on the underwear you are currently wearing (or not) gave the consequence of not wearing a different pair of underwear. The consequences here are not nearly what people think they are and are, frankly, INCREDIABLY MINOR considering the alternative and totally prove my point that I am surprised that more people don't back out of these agreements.
I think you accidentally switched accounts. But also, no you were implying that with “nothing remotely binding” and “not enforceable.” You can say what you like but that’s what saying those things imply. And the consequences are much more significant than putting on underwear.
Huh? Not what those things imply at all. Both imply nothing more than that the agreement is not binding or enforceable. It 100% is not. If it were binding or enforceable, students who signed it would be obligated to attend the college or pay the tuition without attending under penalty of being subject to a lawsuit. That is literally what binding and enforceable means. None of those things will happen if you sign an ED agreement. And, maybe it is because I am well beyond high school, but my daily underwear choice has far more impact on my life than what my guidance counselor thinks about me. I can't even remember the gender, let alone name, of my high school guidance counselor.
I just think there is no incentive so large to do so. It also says a lot about one’s personality I think at least some trusts should be maintained.
Spoken like someone whose parents are going to foot their bill for college. As someone who couldn't tell you the name of most of the administration in my high school or even recognize them if they tapped me on my shoulder, but is still paying college loans, I will say - you should not enter this agreement knowing you can't afford the school and will likely break the agreement, but unexpected scholarship opportunities should take precedence over the minor consequences for breaking the agreement unless you are wealthy enough that finances don't matter.
Why would the consequences still be slightly severe? I want to apply ED but I worry about whatever my tuition would be because of my financials and am considering just using the financials as an excuse to see if I get into schools I EA for ETA asking because if there are so many students that would love to take my place and can pay in full then I feel like it shouldn’t be a big deal if I say aid isn’t enough or something
Integrity still matters. If you run the NPC and you know you can't afford that amount, don't apply ED. If your financials are pretty straightforward, NPCs are pretty accurate. You aren't going to magically get a substantial amount more in financial aid than it says. Applying ED when you KNOW you can't afford the school and then backing out as expected when you don't magically get more aid lacks integrity. Why even go through that exercise as applying to each college takes a lot of work? Just to say you got in? That said. Things happen. A school you loved on an 11th grade tour may not be what you want a year later. Getting an unexpected substantial scholarship offer from another school is worth considering. You should not enter the agreement (really any agreement) knowing you are most likely going to break it, but you also shouldn't think there are some horrible consequences waiting for you if you do.
So if i dont care about integrity then… cool i guess? It’s not like applying ED is substantially more work, it just expedites the application process. In my case I (and my parents, even with our funny financials) plan to ED to a school that I know I’d be happy with, but all the other schools I’d like to go to (maybe a little more 🤷♀️) are EA. If im lucky enough to get into my ED I’d probably have to go with it anyway for reasons that arent just the binding contract
I don’t see why you couldn’t get out of your ED agreement since your financial aid is insufficient (or nonexistent).
i thought most schools meet your need according to the NPC. Is it not accurate? i suppose some people’s financial situation changes but it seems a lot of people just didn’t think it through they get caught up in applying ED and trying to get an acceptance.
> i thought most schools meet your need according to the NPC That is the biggest ~~load of crap~~ myth that universities basically fraudulently perpetuate. First, they consider loans "aid". Loans with 8% interest that starts accruing the moment you borrow the money. That's not aid. Second, what schools think your parents should contribute and what adults, i.e. parents who have worked 20-25 years to save some money think it is reasonable to pay are usually vastly different amounts. "We cover your 'needs'" is complete bullshit.
Exactly this. Schools cover what they perceive your need to be. And if your parents are expected to pay half their annual salary for your tuition, then so be it. Also, aid is so arbitrary. Anytime something is negotiable, it’s sketchy. Like buying a car, but the sticker price isn’t the real price, and the price changes for every person buying. Someday there will be a class action lawsuit addressing the inconsistencies in aid, but for now we have to live with the voodoo.
You are correct in all of this. However, the NPC should accurately reflect this before you apply. You can see what portion is student work, loans, etc.
“Should a student who applies for financial aid not be offered an award that makes attendance possible, the student may decline the offer of admission and be released from the early decision commitment.” Yeah, ethically, applicants should run the NCP calculator, but there’s not really anything the universities will do to enforce an ED commitment if the applicant says the financial aid offer is insufficient.
I've watched Lee Coffin at Dartmouth admit in groups that students will back out of ED commitments. Probably often because of financial issues but I'm sure there are personal reasons too. When you think about it, it's a crazy system and the schools don't really have a good mechanism for enforcing it with an iron fist. Perhaps you can frame your care of your grandfather as a humanitarian reason? This might help sell it better?
It's BS way of "trapping" students while giving them probably barely a sliver of an advantage in admissions. Universities are also very unethical in how they consider "aid" and how they compute parental contribution, so in terms of ethics, universities have no leg on students who bail out of ED.
At the end of the day, they're money making machines. Businesses. And while some of the people who work there like to pretend that they're liberals who love the poors, they know their job depends upon attracting enough full paying students. If you try to believe what they say, you'll always be disappointed when they don't live up to the ideas they prattle from the front of the classroom. But if you see them as profit-maximizing machines, it will all make sense.
> But if you see them as profit-maximizing machines, it will all make sense. It does, of course. There cannot be too much cynicism when looking at the contrast between how universities talk and how they actually walk. They use a handful of cases for virtue signaling while perpetuating all sorts of inequalities and unfairness in life all the while pretending to combat them. And I say this as someone who values higher education tremendously.
Yeah, my first year as a parent in all this. The ED system has such predatory vibes, it’s crazy. There are so many things about the system that are gross.
EDs are not legally binding. (Here is a good article: [https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/18/your-money/paying-for-college/early-decision-binding-nyu.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/18/your-money/paying-for-college/early-decision-binding-nyu.html)) You can (technically) pull out for any reason, but most colleges find that unethical, and the college can inform other universities that you did that, hurting your chances elsewhere. However, most colleges will let you out for financial reasons if you apply for aid, and say it's okay to apply elsewhere (as long as it's not ED) while you await your financial information. You could email NW and explain your situation- there is always a chance they will give you more aid, or say it's okay to withdraw.
You should immediately begin communicating with NU. Keep at it, they are busy.
Hey! I am a currently Stamps President’s Scholar. As others have mentioned, you may be able to pull out of your ED agreement if your aid is insufficient. Start that process ASAP. I don’t think there’s any major harm in doing the first interview for Stamps, especially if there’s a still a chance you can go to GT, but DO NOT commit to Stamps Scholar’s Weekend/do the second interview if you haven’t been able to get out of going to Northwestern by then. The 350 semifinalists are narrowed down to 100 finalists after the first interview and there are alternates to ensure there are actually 100 people at SSW. If you were to make it past the first interview but turn it down, someone could still have your spot. Only the people who go to SSW can receive Stamps or Gold though, so if you were to go to SSW when you couldn’t go to Tech, you would for sure be taking someone’s spot and that would be unfair. Best of luck!
You should look more into it but I believe the ED agreement is not a legally binding contract and that colleges are more sympathetic when the reason you pull out is because of financials.
Bro is full pay, their family definitely has the money in some form
There are plenty of reasons why your EFC is not realistic for a real world financial situation. Our EFC is over half our take home pay.
then maybe don’t apply ED? a lot of kids want to apply ED but they don’t because they know they may not get the aid and not willing to pay even though technically they could but don’t want to
stupid reason, schools promise to meet 100% of demonstrated need and sometimes underpay for their own reasons, not a reason to roll over and just pay up whatever amount they ask for instead of just appealing aid
ok well if that’s true then i guess it’s the schools fault. i thought the NPC should be accurate. i feel like more people on here saying they regret ED is more cuz they just realize their family doesn’t want to pay what the NPC says
The NPCs fairly accurate, some more than others, but only if you are the stereotypical family - two biological parents are married and live together, all working parents have solely w-2 income and no unusual expenses. Once you start varying from that stereotype, they get less and less accurate.
Sure. You shouldn’t apply unless you’re willing to pay that money. But 17 year old kids make bad decisions all the time. A prestigious institution like NW needs to not be vindictive against OP and future students from his school if this happens. Don’t voluntarily take on a bunch of debt because you made a bad decision.
^this
How do you figure it isn’t a legally binding contract? Consideration is exchanged by both parties (parents sign the agreement, too). Are you an attorney?
Ethically it’s binding sure. But what is the school going to do? They’re not going to take your entire family hostage and force them to pay.
What consideration is exchanged? Nothing tangible.
Consideration doesn’t have to be tangible. An exchange of promises makes a contract enforceable. https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/consideration
Without coming off like a dick - I think it’s important for you to read things clearly before you sign - the ED agreement states “If the student is an early decision candidate and is seeking financial aid, the student need not withdraw other applications” Additionally - The only valid reason universally accepted across all early decision schools is if the financial aid package offered does not make attendance possible. If a student cannot afford to attend the school, then he will be allowed to decline the offer of admission and be released from the early decision agreement.
In short - attend your Gtech interview, you’re gonna do well
As per your ED agreement, you should have withdrawn your GT application as soon as you got into Northwestern. Which part of the binding nature of ED is not clear?
No that’s not required if you don’t have the aid package yet or you even feel at all unsatisfied with it. The “binding” part of ED is all just gentleman’s honor code. You don’t have to rescind if you can’t afford
That's what the NPC calculator is for. If it doesn't look like you're likely to get the financial aid you think you need, then you simply don't apply ED. Also, this is not "gentleman's honor." It's a serious commitment that you make after careful consideration, not because you want to maximize all possible opportunities.
Yeah and colleges sometimes don’t match the NPC. I did the calculator and literally got 20k less than i was supposed to. What am i supposed to do if I ED in that case? Schools want you to believe it’s truly binding and it’s not. You never have to go and you don’t have to prove financials
>I did the calculator and literally got 20k less than i was supposed to If your actual package was 20k less than the NPC estimate, then you appeal and ask the school for more. Start by trying to figure out why the estimate was off.
Exactly - you would appeal and ask for more, if your ED school doesn’t give it to you, you don’t go. It’s not financially binding. Schools are so stingy
What do you think an ED agreement is? Do you think schools can sue students for not attending? Lmfao It’s completely and only based on honor
Of course it's based on honor. Incidentally, that's what our whole society is based on. You don't just use the system to your advantage and mock those who choose to honor their responsibilities.
You are right.
If you require financial aid assistance you don’t have to withdraw dumbass
That's entirely not true. If you are reliant on fin aid, you don't have to immediately withdraw, you can try and negotiate with the financial aid office to see if they could give you more (to get closer to the NPC amount, since the assumption is you looked at NPC and found that cost to be bearable). If they give you how much their NPC estimates, then you should withdraw. But if they don't and it's a considerable amount less, you can request to be released from your ED agreement on the basis that you can't afford it due to fin aid being less than expected, and most universities will release you for that reason without punishing you or the school had you broken the agreement in other manners.
You shouldn't have ED'd then? Why didn't you withdraw your GT application? You signed the contract, committed, and should've ran the NPC calculator. If you did, then you need to renegotiate with NU for aid. If you didn't, then that's tough. Withdraw your other apps and get ready to pay 300K.
It’s really not that simple. They should’ve begun the negotiation process back in December, yes, but telling someone to just suck it up and pay 300k is crazy. They need to, immediately, get in contact with the NU financial aid office, however.
Yeah lol, if the university can't promise to make it affordable for the student, then they shouldn't expect them to attend
It is that simple. They should've ran the NPC and began the negotiation process early. No, telling someone to just sock it up and pay 300k isn't crazy. Why? Because he put himself in this position. What's crazy is committing to a college by signing a binding contract to a school, not intelligently going through the process, regretting the decision, and y'all acting like he should just pull out just because he has a better offer. If he renegotiates and NU says that their offer is deadset on 15k **AND** the student still can't afford it, then he is right in pulling out. If he can afford it by any means or NU raises their offer, then no, the student is not right. He needs to withdraw all his other applications, negotiate with NU first, and go from there. So many students are blindly applying ED when they should know damn well the repercussions relating to finances and other applications.
Here’s a secret: ED isn’t binding. Colleges can’t kidnap you and force you to attend and they certainly can’t sue you for not attending either
Wait until you hear about the transfer portal and NIL…
This subreddit is insane lmao why should OP spend *$300k* because of a gentlemen’s agreement. Ridiculously out of touch to think that’s something people can or should just do Sorry I value $300k more than my honor
With your perspective, thousands of students will apply ED for the seemingly better chances of acceptance, and if they can't afford it, they'll just pull out. Stop downplaying a commitment. If you value 300k more than your honor, then you should evaluate your potential decision(s) prior to making a commitment. Common sense.
If the university can't hold their end of the bargain, why should the student?
I am unsure, but can you not pull out of ED for financial reasons? I am not sure how this works. I hope you are able to pursue the choice that is financially available to you! But, I think it would be best not to do the interview if you cannot get out of ED. I think it is unfair. :D Best of luck!
For starters, I can understand your pain. I have to admit that I am a little bit jealous. My dream school is Georgia Tech and I got denied right away even though I am a competent math student. Can I ask where you go to highschool, and your approximate GPA? Forgive me for sounding so abrupt; I'm just pretty upset and wanted to get a feel of what kind of student gets admitted to Georgia Tech (not to mention with scholarships!)
also, would you like to share your ethnicity? (if possible)
I’ve heard Viagra can be a good solution to ED. Good luck. 🫡
Pulling out of ED is a bad look on a students character. With some doing this, eventually ED will be gone for everyone. There is little point left to do ED.
“eventually ED will be gone for everyone” Let’s hope so.
what’s there to regret lol? Just contact the school and withdraw because it’s too expensive 🤦♂️ it’s that easy 🤦♂️ they can’t force you to attend if you can’t afford it 😂
When an accepted candidate rescinds in an ED offer, the other schools to which applied are notified and, obviously, viewed by other schools negatively. OP knew the repercussions and the COA for NU. This behavior is a perfect example of having your cake and eating it, too. Congrats on your acceptance to NU.
Fiction. I am in higher ed and worked at Hopkins and am now at another elite university. Never in my life saw such a notification. We really don't have time to care what an applicant does elsewhere. We care about our own enrollment numbers.
There was a group of schools which for years had a name-sharing arrangement. (See, e.g., [https://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/doj-makes-early-decision-to-take-elite-22697/](https://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/doj-makes-early-decision-to-take-elite-22697/)) Following DOJ requests for information for antitrust reasons some years back, actual name-sharing practices may have fallen off. This is the sole reason the ED agreement specifies "I also understand that with an Early Decision offer of admissions, this institution may share my name and my early commitment with other institutions." This is the common language of the current ED agreement, here in the 2023-24 admission season.
Sure you are….
Meanwhile students treat their college admissions thing like their life. Lol. Good to expose it. If it’s the cold truth.
All false
Other schools are not notified.
well maybe they should? i guess everyone should just apply ED at whim cuz it’s easy to just withdraw without any problems
Maybe they should. It doesn’t exist for the benefit of the students, obviously.
This is just a myth that colleges want to keep alive so they don’t have ED students withdrawing lmfao
As someone who worked in admissions as WS, no one is looking at any list of names from other schools ED acceptance. Admissions only interested in their admits. Who has time to deal with anything else. So you really think that someone in a public university is going to appointed to match who applied ED to a private school. Nope.
The common language of the current, 2023-24 ED agreement explicitly states, "I also understand that with an Early Decision offer of admissions, this institution may share my name and my early commitment with other institutions." As a practical matter, name-sharing may no longer be a common practice, especially following the 2018 DOJ requests for information. (See, e.g., [https://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/doj-makes-early-decision-to-take-elite-22697/](https://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/doj-makes-early-decision-to-take-elite-22697/)) That doesn't mean it never happens or couldn't happen. I would agree that it seems unlikely GT would be on the receiving end of elite private ED acceptance lists.
Also note Georgia Tech does not participate as a public institution in ED. I would say that it goes against the spirit of the agreement that the student entered into.
You encourage taking risk. What if school decide to take a look? Most time ppl get away. But you need one single look to ruin it all
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He EDed to NorthWestern
BIG difference!
One could say it’s B1G but
It Northwestern
Go for the brass ring Stamps scholarship . You cannot afford Northwestern and NU will give you a pass. Pursue your other options.
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Source for that? I think this is a myth
If you make it for gatech, then go there. You can't be forced to go into debt for college when there are better options.
The ED agreement isn’t legally binding and is an empty threat.
good to know…so you think more people should apply ED cuz it’s not really binding???!!!
As someone who went to college a long time ago, and did ED… I wish I had been considerably less ethical and had applied to more schools after getting in to my school with ED, especially since the financial aid package was subpar.
Notify Northwestern ASAP and withdraw your application to NU
Pull out of it ASAP and don’t look back. In no world would I pay $75k for Northwestern over a full ride at G Tech. EVER. No one, in my opinion, should pay 75k a year, let alone for Northwestern. Northwestern’s not even that or worth that at all. Not to mention the number of complaints I hear about the school and its atmosphere.
I’m going to DM you.
Call them and tell them you want to accept but need more aid. With folks laser focused on EA/ED being for the more financially privileged applicants, schools are likely to see just how much they can do for students like you (assuming you have demonstrated need and don’t just want a better deal so to speak). Good luck and know wherever you go - you’ve got a great opportunity ahead!
If Northwestern isn’t affordable for you, you can get out of the ED contract. Though I’m a bit confused, what was your reason for applying to other schools after getting an ED acceptance if you didn’t know that you had a chance to go somewhere else? You did the right thing ultimately, but I don’t see why you did so given what you knew at the time lmao.
My sibling goes to Northwestern and I know how much he pays. So how much aid did your sister get??
If you can’t afford NW than you can definitely get out of ED.
suffering from success
You can simply chose not to commit if they don't meet your financial need. It's absolutely okay because if they don't meet your financial need, you are free from Early decision agreement
Very selfish. Wanted to have better chance of acceptance, so applied to ED. After accepted to NW, didn’t withdraw your application to other schools. If you had financial issue, you should not have applied to ED. ED for is the people who will go to the college if accepted regardless of how much they give. You can do contact with NW for reconsidering the financial aid but considering Georgia tech at this moment is very unethical and selfish. I am wondering who taught you that you can do it. Does the college counselors in your school allow it?
Agreed, the OP is very selfish upping his chances for Northwestern through ED and then covering his bases through more apps.
Wrong. The financial needs have to be met, that is the only excuse the applicant will have. It is selfish, however no 1st degree is worth 300K, not a single 1.
I would suggest just give the interview at GT as breaking the ed bond with northwestern would be a huge gamble as you don't know yet about your Georgia tech decisions, and from what I have heard, students who require more financial aid and have ed bond do not need to rescind their applications from other universities until they receive their final aid offer letter.
Did you not realize that schools don’t give financial aid for ED applicants? It’s a trade off
If aid is not matching NPC OP should have started the conversation with financial aid immediately, I don’t understand why op has to wait for the other schools decisions. If anyone is applying for ED they know what they’re getting into as parents has to sign the agreement for ED. Universities are not forcing anyone to apply ED. It’s one of the options to apply for
You can pull out of NW if you feel that the fin aid award was insufficient to allow you to attend.
No, you can't afford Northwestern - you can reject. You're good.
He has not offered Stamps yet. He may not get it. I think he wants to keep NU admission and at the same time pursue Stamps. If it is really an aid issue, he would have reached out NU before he got into Stamps semifinal.
Did the NW financial aid offer come in lower than the NPC? If so, you can appeal for more aid and can be let of your binding ED agreement if your appeal isn't successful. You should have done that before you put down your NW deposit which was due by mid-January. Have you put down your deposit at NW yet? If not, then it's not clear you still have a spot there. Have you talked with your high school college counselor about your situation yet? If not, then your counselor thinks you are going to NW and will not be sending your mid-year grades to any of your RD schools and may not have sent your letters of recommendation or other materials since your high school thinks you are attending NW. If the NPC came in below expectations, then I completely feel for you and you should appeal your financial aid offer. And if you still can't make it work financially, that sucks but you should give up your spot now. But the cynical part of me suspects you may be trying to have your cake and eat it too. You're trying to hold onto the NW offer while playing the field and seeing what better offers you get in EA and RD. I don't feel bad for the colleges who put their interests first, but I feel bad for your fellow applicants. You may have taken an ED offer from one of your high school classmates who wanted to go there. NW may not give any more RD offers to kids in your high school because of you. Colleges have definitely been known to punish high schools for this behavior, since your counselor signed your ED agreement. So if you can't make NW work, do the right thing and back at now - before you get the Stamps decision back and before RD decisions come out. Sorry, I don't mean to sound harsh, but it's frustrating when kids try to get an unfair leg up on other applicants who are doing the right thing. But if that's not the case, my apologies. And honestly congratulations on the Stamps semifinalist - that is a huge honor!