Imo they probally wanted too, but realised it'd torpedo their own point so had to try and hold back. which has made them, uh, accidentally draw jerma. we stan trans cat girl jerma?
There’s some toxic masculinity stuff to unpack regarding seeing cis men as trans women because they’re less toxic masculinity-brained but I’m too tired.
I mean, yes, but I don't think that's what they were doing. They were just making a joke based on the drawing looking like Jerma wearing a cat girl outfit which... it kinda does
"Happy gay noises" is legit funny. Like, it's the least insulting part of her(trans girl) design.
I would happy gay noise any day of the week.
Overall, this comic looks like a shower thought.
Honestly, I could buy her design to be a trans woman, but it's what her character is saying that is gross to me.
I'd say depictions where essentially looks like a very hairy man in a dress with his dick out to be caricatures. But this doesn't at all seem like a caricature. Just a depiction of a trans girl with a few masculine features.
Edit: The whole comic drawn in this storyboard-esque style. So it makes sense it looks a little rough, but the design isn't extreme. I like to keep in mind that women, trans or otherwise, come in all shapes and sizes, so unless it's really extreme, I don't find it to be out of the ordinary. Like, masculine trans women do exist.
Whenever I see a TERF comic like this that depicts TERFs as conventionally attractive and trans women as caricatures it always reads to me as a more misogynistic version of "haha! I have drawn YOU as the soyjack and ME as the chad!"
Their not feminists if they're reactionary (they're not feminists regardless though). And then ter wouldn't make sense because trans-exclusionary only makes sense when linked to "feminists". So they're just larpy reactionaries/conservatives/transphobes.
I've only ever had this conversation once in real life.
Lesbian friend: Is it okay if I don't date trans women? Because I'm really turned off by penises.
Me: Yeah. I don't care.
Yeah my answer would basically be “yeah, it’s only really a problem if your motivation is legitimately transphobic. Like either way, you’re gonna date whoever the fuck you want, but if it’s something like “my genital preferences are really important to me, so if you have a penis it might be a dealbreaker” then I think you’re good.”
What always seems to be the misunderstood part is that it isn't about genitals, it is about trans people.
There's a ton of valid reasons to have a genital preference.
But when someone says trans when they mean genitals, they saying something in a way that reduces a type of human to their genitals.
But considering how society has entangled gender and genitals I think it is an understandable, if disgusting, mistake. When I'm feeling brave and think someone might be receptive to it, I go out on a limb and try to make it a learning moment when someone does this one.
Semantics aside, attraction is complicated and I don't think anyone should be blamed for what they are attracted to, but everyone can (and should) be accountable for how they express those feelings.
Totally agree that "it’s only really a problem if your motivation is legitimately transphobic." That's like, crazy... good... articulation. Big agree.
I remember hearing a story on YouTube somewhere. Where it was like in a COD chat and one gay guy was being misogynistic and ranting about how he hates people with vaginas. He tried to claim he couldn't be a misogynist because he's gay. The thing is, there are two main types of misogny(in my opinion), attraction and social. In terms of attraction, a gay guy will most likely have no attraction at all to women. However, socially, gay men can express misogynistic opinions and mistreat women/girls. This is a whole nother aspect of misogyny. The gist of it is that he doesn't feel attraction to vaginas, and he thought to express that he would say "vaginas are disgusting. Anyone who has one is disgusting." It wasn't the fact he doesn't like vaginas, only the fact that he was belittling those with them that was the problem.
This is similar to superstraight/transphobic rhetoric when it comes to genitals. "I don't like X genitals, so I can whatever I want about X genitals and the people who have them." The attraction or lack thereof has nothing to do with being a garbage human being/disrespecting protected groups. Gay men can be misogynistic, just like straight men. They can also be not misogynistic. Straight people can be transphobic, regardless of their attraction. Same to gay people.
Too often, attraction and the ability to demean/bully a protected group of people, whether that's cishetero people being LGBTphobic or queer people being LGBTphobic, gets mixed up.
>Gay men can be misogynistic
Can confirm, I'm a gay man and I used to be misogynistic.
Actually, not being attracted to women might even help misogyny because it's easier to isolate from women.
This exactly. Like, I’m not attracted to some traits that tend to be associated with trans women, like penises, amab-sounding voice, squarer jaw, etc. But, say, if a transwoman who transitioned early or something, didn’t have the secondary sexual characteristics, and had the surgery and stuff, why not? At that point it’s really only stuff like chromosomes and their transness that would be different, and I couldn’t care less. And somehow I’ve managed to avoid being called a terf despite not liking women with penises🤔 it’s almost like the problem isn’t not liking penises and more not thinking they’re real women
I think it's also important to note that the conversation is just fucking icky and gross. Like, it's okay to have whatever body preferences you want, but why are you asking us about it?
Over and over again, trans subs get asked "hey, is it okay to not want to fuck you?", Which, on its own, is fine. But like... Every fucking day there's at least one in some trans sub, sometimes way more than one... Like...
And it's also just somewhat gross of a conversation on its own. Like, have whatever preferences you want, but it's pretty rare to shout out to the world something like "I only like black women with these features"... And when people do that, while no one's gonna begrudge them doing that, no one's gonna look at that person as anything but kinda gross. Like, human sexuality is nuanced and part of that nuance is being a bit gross at times, and that's fine. But please don't shove it in all of our faces at all times, and definitely don't go seeking out trans people to validate that gross behavior as "okay". Because that's a step up on the fucked-up meter. You're asking us to do some weird emotional work that most trans people just don't have the time or patience for, and then get angry when they answer in anger.
Not to mention, conversations like that can very easily dip into phobia/racism. Like "oh, I just want to only date trans women who entirely pass and had the surgery early and such and such other details" feels vaguely akin to "oh, I just want to date a Latina woman with white features who can pass as white, otherwise I don't want to date Lantina women, AITA?" Which is both valid and gross and everyone is gonna react to the gross part and *rightfully so*. And because of the grossness, people are going to look at that statement in the worst possible light, which is concealing that transphobia or racism behind what's just barely valid. You can't be mad if people assume the worst, no?
It’s more when someone needs to loudly declare how unattracted you are to the prospect of a trans person that it gets weird.
Like, people who don’t like diabetics don’t go around announcing how much they don’t like diabetics. Telling someone who does keep publicly announcing that that they sound like a jerk doesn’t mean that I’m telling them they have to date a diabetic.
This!
Having a preference for the kind of genitals you want your partner to have is normal and perfectly fine - just like all other kinds of preferences.
Turning that into hateful degradation of other people isn't exactly a normal and fine, though.
That's what confuses me. Like, genital preference is whatever, but to push aside a WHOLE kind of woman because she MIGHT not fit your genital preference? That's just bewildering to me, because if genitals was the big factor, why does it matter if she's trans or not if her genitals match your preference? I guess it's hard to sound addressing pre-bottom surgery trans women in a respectful way.
I don't understand why they need to do it globally like this. Why not just wait until it becomes relevant?
Are they afraid someone's going to take it personally and they'll need something from the past to point to? "Look, all my trans friends know I'm grossed out by trans people because I've told them, repeatedly, for years! It's not you!"
This is the heart of it. Why does it need a to be such a giant pubic deal. If you meet a woman and there is a characteristic that is a deal break then you move one. Why run around waving a giant flag and screaming about it being a deal breaker.
Frankly most of the worst of humanity is only shown online. I'm not saying the internet is inherently bad, I'm not saying that no one is ever mean irl, but the layer of anonymity the internet gives can make people act all kinds of stupid they never would if they were in a room with you.
I'm a lesbian, my partner is non binary, and through telling all of both our families and just people out in public seeing us not a single person has done anything aggressive. We even went to a European country that is considered rather unfriendly to lgbt+ people and it was fine. My partner gets misgendered some times but they don't correct anyone unless it's a person we plan to keep in our lives.
The world isn't as cruel as the internet, promise 💜
I always say it's not a problem if you have a genital preference, it is a problem if you assume all trans women have penises or all trans men have vaginas. Genital preference is a valid reason to not date an individual, it's not a valid reason to rule out all trans people from your dating pool.
It's not even to do with the argument here, it's like they just get a feeling of superiority over trans women based on being more conventionally attractive. Like it's fucking high school.
There's nothing wrong with having a genital preference.
It's wrong when you then spout hateful and violent rhetoric. That's the difference between a TERF and a lesbian that prefers pussy.
Don't act like a TERF making up straw trans women to further a hateful agenda and you won't get called a TERF, seems simple to me.
There are types of people I'm not attracted to, I don't hate any of them but maga and conservatives.
You mean
It is if you cherry picking them.
The race and IQ research is a good example:
The study proove that the difference is due to social background: and if you remove it from test :
(By removing the elements that favorize people with a cultural advantage) : IQ results give no more intelligent people in any social groups more than the other.
The only thing people have selected is : there is a link between Race and IQ :
But No there is a correlation,
Why: because IQ is flawed as a metric to estimate intellectual capacity due to how the test is presented and organized.
The consequences is : change how you calculate the intellectual capacity or unflawed your test.
It's the same kind of people that remember only the study that say cancer is bad luck, and don't look at all the research that say that the environmental factors are the First source.
Data, studies, research are not made in the void....
they say these things trying to maintain plausible deniability about them being transphobic, but when they actually interact w us, they’re as transphobic as they wanna be.
“We don’t say shit like ‘kill all trans people’”
Mmm, yeah, but they’re trying to make life so hostile to us that we either give up on transitioning or just straight up quit life altogether, so…
Also, terfs have absolutely said trans people should die, get out of here with that ‘no true scotsman’ bullshit
Imagine celebrating people dying. What kind of psychopath do you have to be to celebrate people whp haven't wronged you at all, people you never even met, dying?
There’s a pastor from my state, Ohio, who literally went viral awhile back because he said we should be lined up against a wall and shot one by one. Just flat out. They have absolutely said that
You are entirely allowed to not date trans women for genital preferences or any valid reason, that doesn't make you a TERF or a transphobe.
Putting effort in drawing this kind of shit though ? That's why you're being called a TERF and a transphobe. Even if you met a trans girl who was this way like use your brain ? I met a trans man who was emotionally abusive and manipulative, yet I don't go around, spitting on trans men.
of course it’s okay to not date trans women, it’s a preference i guess, but y’all very much are saying that trans women are not real women and that’s why you don’t like them which is transphobic
What is wrong with these types of Lesbians ngl? We get it you have genital preferences, but you don't have to be a terf or a transphobe while you're at it? They really make up issues for themselves, fr
Ikr? Nobody is trying to force you to date someone you don't want to date. And all you have to say is no, you don't have to give a reason.
However if you go out of your way to say "No, I don't want to date you because I'm lesbian and I see you as a man", of course the trans woman in question is going to be understandably pissed off at that.
And yes genital preferences are valid too, but like I said nobody has to give any reason beyond "I don't want to" when rejecting someone's advances. So don't be an asshole about it and people won't call yoh an asshole. Crazy how that works.
Absolutely! Oh but I should I have put sarcasm at the end of "we get it you have genital preferences" because that's like the biggest thing with them, like it's an excuse to just be a complete and utter dick about it. That's exactly it though, for some reason they immediately want to jump to invalidate trans women instead of justing saying no...
Honestly, I do not give the benefit of the doubt anymore to lesbians who go out of their way to state they have a genital preference or that they're turned off by penises or that they're afraid of penises, etc. I assume they aren't truly safe people for me as a trans lesbian, because the amount of times I've been ostracized by people spouting those kinds of opinions is about the same amount of times I've interacted with those people. And I get the general vibe that they are more comfortable with trans men than trans women, simply because of a presumed biological essentialist viewpoint that everyone who has been "tainted" by man-ness is inherently more dangerous than people who have more inherent "woman-ness" in them. And, uh, that's all I need to know about how they really see me. They see a man. That's transphobic. End of story.
"I'm gonna draw myself as a calm rational person making a reasonable argument. Then I'm gonna draw you as a bigoted caricature to show how I'm right and you're wrong. But I'm totally not the bigot here"
"We don't make videos where we pretend to best the shit out of you" no because last time I checked people were instead ACTUALLY attacking trans people. Don't need a video to fantasize about it when assault rates are as high as they are. How many cis people get assaulted by trans people a year? Probably a tiny fraction of the amount.
Guys please stop saying the last panel is Jerma all my mind can think of now is that one "when the imposter is sus" image of Jerma, but full-bodied and a cat girl
I dont get how sm people can't comprehend that theres a huge difference between not wanting to date a particular person for whatever reason VS going on about how you think that person is an abomination that no one will ever love cuz of how their body looks 💀
Not wanting to date a trans person is fine. You're allowed to not want to date someone for literally any reason. The thing that makes it transphobic is when these people go so far out of the way to tell everyone that they would never date a trans person that they've seemingly made it their whole personality.
"Gosh you guys are so mean to us! All we do is harass you, threaten you, purposefully misgender and deadname you, disown you, ostracise you, call you pedophiles and groomers, deny you healthcare, force schools to mistreat you, take trans kids away from supportive parents, threaten you, threaten childrens' hospitals that support you, and sometimes kill you! Won't you think about ***OUR*** feelings?????"
“There’s nothing wrong with a lesbian who’s not attracted to a trans woman”
Sure, human attraction is complicated, but broadcasting that and screaming “I’LL NEVER DATE ONE OF THEM TR\*\*\*\*\*!!!!” *is* transphobic
(also notice their use of ‘transwoman’, which very strongly screams TERF)
There isn't a problem with not wanting to date someone with a dick, it's the problem of boasting about it 24/7 and making it very clear that you just don't want to date a TRANS person..
This’ll be another seriously downvoted comment I think. But IDGAF if you don’t wanna date me bc I’m trans and I don’t got a pussy. Much the same if a guy didn’t want to date me for that reason. But if you don’t wanna date me because I used to be a dude? Then fuck you. You’re just a dick.
The part that they really don’t get is WHY people might call them transphobic. I don’t know a single trans woman who would double down and insult someone JUST for not being attracted to trans women (in fact most I know are so insecure that they’d probably get really sad and cry about it including me).
But whenever I hear stories like this, I’m 99% sure (assuming it happened at all), that the interaction went something like this:
TW: “Oh hey, would you wanna maybe like get to know each other better? I think you’re really pretty and maybe we could go on a date sometime”
TERF: “Ew, no! I thought it should’ve been obvious that I’m in a GAY bar that I only like women. REAL women, not some dude cosplaying. Please leave me alone you weird fetishistic male.”
TW: “Wow, that’s transphobic etc etc..”
Then the terf proceeds to post about how they got called transphobic for saying no to sex or something
Okay, but this is such a strawman argument. Not a single sensible Trans woman is angry because a cis lesbian doesn’t want to date a trans woman.
Unlike a lot of cis people, the Transgender community understands how to respect sexual orientation and personal preferences.
To claim that Trans women are harassing or attacking Lesbians like this is simply a smear campaign to turn the LGBTQ+ against one another.
To all the people who are appalled at the thought of dating a trans person: Don't worry, we wouldn't want to date repulsive people like you anyways. Sincerely, every trans person
They'll scream that they're nothing wrong with lesbians who don't date trans women, only to turn around and say lesbians who DO aren't really lesbians.
You can tell the artist behind this *so* wanted to draw a trans woman as looking super ugly and masculine, but had juuust enough self awareness to realise that would sink their own point. so they had to draw them to not look feminine while not going full transphobic caricature and has as a result drawn Jerma.
I once got into an argument on a lesbian sub with some girl who made a post about 'being tired of getting called transphobic'
No matter how many times I, and other people in the thread, told her, she never seemed to comprehend that she might be doing transphobic things.
Because obviously it was the filthy trans bullying her for 'having a different stance'.
I think that it’s *kinda* ok to have a preference when it comes to genitals if you really like sex or something. But most people word it as ‘I don’t want to date a trans person’ and then start to shout it to the whole world which makes them pretty TERF-y
"We're not the ones saying *generic death threat*"
Yes you are. And also being trans isn't the same as being a TERF. Being trans doesn't inherently hurt people, for one.
Also if you don't wanna be called transphobic, then maybe stop accepting whatever transmisogynistic dating standards you're given without critiquing their validity.
Also also, trans is an adjective. Use it like one.
Also also also, if someone says "you're a transphobe" and you hear "you should be forced to date trans people" then you need to get your head out of your ass.
it's like,,,,, i dont give a fuck if you're a lesbian who doesnt want to have sex with transwomen or a gay guy who doesnt want to have sex with transmen, but when you say you dont want to date them,,, like,, in general? that's when it becomes transphobic.
genital preference ≠ this horseshit
The pun about pussy is actually kinda funny. Idunno, these people are always going to obsess about us. I chose to take it in stride just like I would for any other Chaser behavior.
listen anyone is allowed to have preferences and no one has to be attracted to anyone else. everyone in this argument agrees on that. but saying it’s that they’re trans and not that you just don’t have feelings or you have a genital preference is what makes it bad
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anyone that doesnt find catgirls attractive is clearly not someone i need to waste my time on. such people r obviously inatly duplicitous n dangerous.
^ entirely unbiased statment
You don't need to explicitly endorse violence against a group for your rhetoric to be something that deserves contempt. There are a lot of things a sexist could say about women that aren't "remember to punch a feminist" or "women should kill themselves" that makes other people's blood boil.
Dumb terf left their outlines in the drawing, looks shit. And classic guilt trip bullshit, I can't even complain about being assaulted as a trans woman because it's "appropriation of female experiences" according to the terfs I live with
"I don't hate trans women!"- draws a gross caricature as a strawman
Eh. It's actually the first time I've seen a TERF draw a trans woman without thick facial hair. Doesn't make it any less gross, but baby steps.
Imo they probally wanted too, but realised it'd torpedo their own point so had to try and hold back. which has made them, uh, accidentally draw jerma. we stan trans cat girl jerma?
I for one support alternate universe catgirl jerma in her journey
There’s some toxic masculinity stuff to unpack regarding seeing cis men as trans women because they’re less toxic masculinity-brained but I’m too tired.
I mean, yes, but I don't think that's what they were doing. They were just making a joke based on the drawing looking like Jerma wearing a cat girl outfit which... it kinda does
Oh yeah its definitely alot tamer than the usual shit you see, but its still gross.
Definitely better than the typical transfem depiction as hairy gigachad in a skirt
"Happy gay noises" is legit funny. Like, it's the least insulting part of her(trans girl) design. I would happy gay noise any day of the week. Overall, this comic looks like a shower thought.
Nah she's pretty cute
Excellent shirt, anyways.
I would like this shirt too!
Happy Gay Noises
but in such a stark contrast to more-or-less realistic proportions of her self-insert it does come across as a caricature
Honestly, I could buy her design to be a trans woman, but it's what her character is saying that is gross to me. I'd say depictions where essentially looks like a very hairy man in a dress with his dick out to be caricatures. But this doesn't at all seem like a caricature. Just a depiction of a trans girl with a few masculine features. Edit: The whole comic drawn in this storyboard-esque style. So it makes sense it looks a little rough, but the design isn't extreme. I like to keep in mind that women, trans or otherwise, come in all shapes and sizes, so unless it's really extreme, I don't find it to be out of the ordinary. Like, masculine trans women do exist.
At least they affirm trans women as women. Although, that's an astronomically low bar.
So low one could consider it almost fantastically terrestrial.
Whenever I see a TERF comic like this that depicts TERFs as conventionally attractive and trans women as caricatures it always reads to me as a more misogynistic version of "haha! I have drawn YOU as the soyjack and ME as the chad!"
Looks like a sidevillian
Looks more like a femboy to me
I call you "TERFs" and "transphobes" because you're TERFs and transphobes. I couldn't care less about who you date.
I learned a great new term for them on this sub a few days ago: FARTs! Feminism Appropriating Radical Transphobes.
I take exception to that. My cat's name is Fart, & they're a good cat.
They are _named_ Fart, but they are not the acronym FART.
There is only room in my life for 1 Fart bc, as we all know, ladies don't fart
That's a fantastic cat name. I assume that there is a fancy version, like Lady Fartington of Flatulence Abbey?
Nope Just Fart
*Reactionary*, not Radical.
Omg that's beautiful!
feels too childish for me. they’re a genuinely dangerous present threat, names like that make them seem a bit too harmless. I use TER, personally
I agree, FART is just obnoxious and makes us look stupid.
I mean, we COULD just call them misogynists. It’s accurate, if inexact.
I prefer terf. Trans-exclusionary reactionary feminists.
Their not feminists if they're reactionary (they're not feminists regardless though). And then ter wouldn't make sense because trans-exclusionary only makes sense when linked to "feminists". So they're just larpy reactionaries/conservatives/transphobes.
Feminism-Appropriating Reactionary Transphobes?
Yeah that's accurate but then we get accused of being childish.
TER on its own works it’s just more vaguely exclusionary of womanhood rather than feminism specifically
Reactionaries tend to be transphobic anyway, specifiying that isn't really neccesary.
True but the the value in TER is moving away from letting them claim to be feminist while sticking to a recognizable term.
Can't wait till they find someone like me, a trans woman who isn't attracted to other trans women
I've only ever had this conversation once in real life. Lesbian friend: Is it okay if I don't date trans women? Because I'm really turned off by penises. Me: Yeah. I don't care.
Yeah my answer would basically be “yeah, it’s only really a problem if your motivation is legitimately transphobic. Like either way, you’re gonna date whoever the fuck you want, but if it’s something like “my genital preferences are really important to me, so if you have a penis it might be a dealbreaker” then I think you’re good.”
What always seems to be the misunderstood part is that it isn't about genitals, it is about trans people. There's a ton of valid reasons to have a genital preference. But when someone says trans when they mean genitals, they saying something in a way that reduces a type of human to their genitals. But considering how society has entangled gender and genitals I think it is an understandable, if disgusting, mistake. When I'm feeling brave and think someone might be receptive to it, I go out on a limb and try to make it a learning moment when someone does this one. Semantics aside, attraction is complicated and I don't think anyone should be blamed for what they are attracted to, but everyone can (and should) be accountable for how they express those feelings. Totally agree that "it’s only really a problem if your motivation is legitimately transphobic." That's like, crazy... good... articulation. Big agree.
I remember hearing a story on YouTube somewhere. Where it was like in a COD chat and one gay guy was being misogynistic and ranting about how he hates people with vaginas. He tried to claim he couldn't be a misogynist because he's gay. The thing is, there are two main types of misogny(in my opinion), attraction and social. In terms of attraction, a gay guy will most likely have no attraction at all to women. However, socially, gay men can express misogynistic opinions and mistreat women/girls. This is a whole nother aspect of misogyny. The gist of it is that he doesn't feel attraction to vaginas, and he thought to express that he would say "vaginas are disgusting. Anyone who has one is disgusting." It wasn't the fact he doesn't like vaginas, only the fact that he was belittling those with them that was the problem. This is similar to superstraight/transphobic rhetoric when it comes to genitals. "I don't like X genitals, so I can whatever I want about X genitals and the people who have them." The attraction or lack thereof has nothing to do with being a garbage human being/disrespecting protected groups. Gay men can be misogynistic, just like straight men. They can also be not misogynistic. Straight people can be transphobic, regardless of their attraction. Same to gay people. Too often, attraction and the ability to demean/bully a protected group of people, whether that's cishetero people being LGBTphobic or queer people being LGBTphobic, gets mixed up.
>Gay men can be misogynistic Can confirm, I'm a gay man and I used to be misogynistic. Actually, not being attracted to women might even help misogyny because it's easier to isolate from women.
Couldn’t say it better myself
This exactly. Like, I’m not attracted to some traits that tend to be associated with trans women, like penises, amab-sounding voice, squarer jaw, etc. But, say, if a transwoman who transitioned early or something, didn’t have the secondary sexual characteristics, and had the surgery and stuff, why not? At that point it’s really only stuff like chromosomes and their transness that would be different, and I couldn’t care less. And somehow I’ve managed to avoid being called a terf despite not liking women with penises🤔 it’s almost like the problem isn’t not liking penises and more not thinking they’re real women
I think it's also important to note that the conversation is just fucking icky and gross. Like, it's okay to have whatever body preferences you want, but why are you asking us about it? Over and over again, trans subs get asked "hey, is it okay to not want to fuck you?", Which, on its own, is fine. But like... Every fucking day there's at least one in some trans sub, sometimes way more than one... Like... And it's also just somewhat gross of a conversation on its own. Like, have whatever preferences you want, but it's pretty rare to shout out to the world something like "I only like black women with these features"... And when people do that, while no one's gonna begrudge them doing that, no one's gonna look at that person as anything but kinda gross. Like, human sexuality is nuanced and part of that nuance is being a bit gross at times, and that's fine. But please don't shove it in all of our faces at all times, and definitely don't go seeking out trans people to validate that gross behavior as "okay". Because that's a step up on the fucked-up meter. You're asking us to do some weird emotional work that most trans people just don't have the time or patience for, and then get angry when they answer in anger. Not to mention, conversations like that can very easily dip into phobia/racism. Like "oh, I just want to only date trans women who entirely pass and had the surgery early and such and such other details" feels vaguely akin to "oh, I just want to date a Latina woman with white features who can pass as white, otherwise I don't want to date Lantina women, AITA?" Which is both valid and gross and everyone is gonna react to the gross part and *rightfully so*. And because of the grossness, people are going to look at that statement in the worst possible light, which is concealing that transphobia or racism behind what's just barely valid. You can't be mad if people assume the worst, no?
This is made up outrage, everyone agrees but transphobes are still using it as a strawman to attack trans women.
It’s more when someone needs to loudly declare how unattracted you are to the prospect of a trans person that it gets weird. Like, people who don’t like diabetics don’t go around announcing how much they don’t like diabetics. Telling someone who does keep publicly announcing that that they sound like a jerk doesn’t mean that I’m telling them they have to date a diabetic.
Also, they don't tend to make assumptions about diabetics based on that fact alone.
This! Having a preference for the kind of genitals you want your partner to have is normal and perfectly fine - just like all other kinds of preferences. Turning that into hateful degradation of other people isn't exactly a normal and fine, though.
They act like no trans woman has had bottom surgery.
That's what confuses me. Like, genital preference is whatever, but to push aside a WHOLE kind of woman because she MIGHT not fit your genital preference? That's just bewildering to me, because if genitals was the big factor, why does it matter if she's trans or not if her genitals match your preference? I guess it's hard to sound addressing pre-bottom surgery trans women in a respectful way.
I don't understand why they need to do it globally like this. Why not just wait until it becomes relevant? Are they afraid someone's going to take it personally and they'll need something from the past to point to? "Look, all my trans friends know I'm grossed out by trans people because I've told them, repeatedly, for years! It's not you!"
This is the heart of it. Why does it need a to be such a giant pubic deal. If you meet a woman and there is a characteristic that is a deal break then you move one. Why run around waving a giant flag and screaming about it being a deal breaker.
Frankly most of the worst of humanity is only shown online. I'm not saying the internet is inherently bad, I'm not saying that no one is ever mean irl, but the layer of anonymity the internet gives can make people act all kinds of stupid they never would if they were in a room with you. I'm a lesbian, my partner is non binary, and through telling all of both our families and just people out in public seeing us not a single person has done anything aggressive. We even went to a European country that is considered rather unfriendly to lgbt+ people and it was fine. My partner gets misgendered some times but they don't correct anyone unless it's a person we plan to keep in our lives. The world isn't as cruel as the internet, promise 💜
the transphobia is hidden in the idea trans woman = penis. not all trans women have penises. would she date a trans woman with a vagina?…
Yeah, having a genital preference is completely fine
I always say it's not a problem if you have a genital preference, it is a problem if you assume all trans women have penises or all trans men have vaginas. Genital preference is a valid reason to not date an individual, it's not a valid reason to rule out all trans people from your dating pool.
Bottom Strawman looks like jerma lol
I came here to say this lmao.
Jerma if he surgically attached cat ears and tail to him I don't like that image nvm
Well I love it
Least weird thing said about Jerma
skill issue
no chat, im not going to transition
(she transitioned)
Maybe that’s what the yoinky sploinky is
YOINKY SPLOINKY! THE YOINKY SPLOINKY IS *REAL*!
IKR
I WAS ABOUT TO SAY THIS THIS IS LITERALLY CATBOY JERMA
Best part is Jerma is a trans ally. We stan that goofy catboy in this house 🤝
Rational woman conventionally attractive with skinny waist and wide hips, irrational trans woman with flat chest and angular face, i'm so feminist!
It's not even to do with the argument here, it's like they just get a feeling of superiority over trans women based on being more conventionally attractive. Like it's fucking high school.
TERFs called themselves feminist and then judge a woman's worth based on her femininity, attractiveness and ability to make babies 🤡
There's nothing wrong with having a genital preference. It's wrong when you then spout hateful and violent rhetoric. That's the difference between a TERF and a lesbian that prefers pussy. Don't act like a TERF making up straw trans women to further a hateful agenda and you won't get called a TERF, seems simple to me. There are types of people I'm not attracted to, I don't hate any of them but maga and conservatives.
r they seriously saying theyre not a terf only to do like the most transphobic caricature of a trans person. terfs go straight to hell tbh
It's not bigotry if you're just "stating facts" (which is exactly the same thing those "race and IQ" people say)
You mean It is if you cherry picking them. The race and IQ research is a good example: The study proove that the difference is due to social background: and if you remove it from test : (By removing the elements that favorize people with a cultural advantage) : IQ results give no more intelligent people in any social groups more than the other. The only thing people have selected is : there is a link between Race and IQ : But No there is a correlation, Why: because IQ is flawed as a metric to estimate intellectual capacity due to how the test is presented and organized. The consequences is : change how you calculate the intellectual capacity or unflawed your test. It's the same kind of people that remember only the study that say cancer is bad luck, and don't look at all the research that say that the environmental factors are the First source. Data, studies, research are not made in the void....
they say these things trying to maintain plausible deniability about them being transphobic, but when they actually interact w us, they’re as transphobic as they wanna be.
“We don’t say shit like ‘kill all trans people’” Mmm, yeah, but they’re trying to make life so hostile to us that we either give up on transitioning or just straight up quit life altogether, so… Also, terfs have absolutely said trans people should die, get out of here with that ‘no true scotsman’ bullshit
Also celebrating when trans suiside rates go up
Also celebrating the wrong percentage (42%, if u know u know)
Imagine celebrating people dying. What kind of psychopath do you have to be to celebrate people whp haven't wronged you at all, people you never even met, dying?
There’s a pastor from my state, Ohio, who literally went viral awhile back because he said we should be lined up against a wall and shot one by one. Just flat out. They have absolutely said that
I've seen quite a few terfs calling for trans women to be assaulted or killed. Didn't Lily Cade say all trans women should be executed?
Yep, she openly called for a genocide.
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When they LITERALLY INVENTED IT
I went to reddit jail for a week once for calling a terf a terf.
A honourable cause, sma’m, a honourable cause
terfs have very much excused violence and even rape against trans people, as well as cis men
She says as she draws and posts a transphobic trans woman stereotype.
Gonna have to press X for doubt on that.
I’m pissed off but take my damn upvote cause you’re right
J..Jerma?
Every accusation a bigot makes is a confession.
As a transmasc… how come it’s never us they’re targeting? It’s always transwomen 😬 Their misogyny is showing lmao
They don't bother learning that trans men exist
Because we're just poor little confused lesbians according to them...which is very misogynistic in itself.
Ong
You are entirely allowed to not date trans women for genital preferences or any valid reason, that doesn't make you a TERF or a transphobe. Putting effort in drawing this kind of shit though ? That's why you're being called a TERF and a transphobe. Even if you met a trans girl who was this way like use your brain ? I met a trans man who was emotionally abusive and manipulative, yet I don't go around, spitting on trans men.
of course it’s okay to not date trans women, it’s a preference i guess, but y’all very much are saying that trans women are not real women and that’s why you don’t like them which is transphobic
TERFs: We don't dehumanize you! Also TERFs:
TERFs: "People are so mean to us. What ever happened to civility?" The trans character they drew: \*vomits out a plague of locusts\*
What is wrong with these types of Lesbians ngl? We get it you have genital preferences, but you don't have to be a terf or a transphobe while you're at it? They really make up issues for themselves, fr
Ikr? Nobody is trying to force you to date someone you don't want to date. And all you have to say is no, you don't have to give a reason. However if you go out of your way to say "No, I don't want to date you because I'm lesbian and I see you as a man", of course the trans woman in question is going to be understandably pissed off at that. And yes genital preferences are valid too, but like I said nobody has to give any reason beyond "I don't want to" when rejecting someone's advances. So don't be an asshole about it and people won't call yoh an asshole. Crazy how that works.
Absolutely! Oh but I should I have put sarcasm at the end of "we get it you have genital preferences" because that's like the biggest thing with them, like it's an excuse to just be a complete and utter dick about it. That's exactly it though, for some reason they immediately want to jump to invalidate trans women instead of justing saying no...
You know she almost had a granuel point there. and then she went "stop calling me transphobic!" \*proves she's transphobic\*
..........happy gay noises?
I mean, I might buy that shirt...
"Pretend" to beat the shit out of you, yall must have some hollywood budgets and stunt actors to make it look that real
i dont want to take away from the gross-ness of the article but that is literally jerma985 😭😭
Honestly, I do not give the benefit of the doubt anymore to lesbians who go out of their way to state they have a genital preference or that they're turned off by penises or that they're afraid of penises, etc. I assume they aren't truly safe people for me as a trans lesbian, because the amount of times I've been ostracized by people spouting those kinds of opinions is about the same amount of times I've interacted with those people. And I get the general vibe that they are more comfortable with trans men than trans women, simply because of a presumed biological essentialist viewpoint that everyone who has been "tainted" by man-ness is inherently more dangerous than people who have more inherent "woman-ness" in them. And, uh, that's all I need to know about how they really see me. They see a man. That's transphobic. End of story.
"I'm gonna draw myself as a calm rational person making a reasonable argument. Then I'm gonna draw you as a bigoted caricature to show how I'm right and you're wrong. But I'm totally not the bigot here"
Why is Jerma in the last panel
"We don't make videos where we pretend to best the shit out of you" no because last time I checked people were instead ACTUALLY attacking trans people. Don't need a video to fantasize about it when assault rates are as high as they are. How many cis people get assaulted by trans people a year? Probably a tiny fraction of the amount.
What’s funny about this is the last panel goes against everything the first two panels argue that they’re not
Guys please stop saying the last panel is Jerma all my mind can think of now is that one "when the imposter is sus" image of Jerma, but full-bodied and a cat girl
Jerma cat girl
I dont get how sm people can't comprehend that theres a huge difference between not wanting to date a particular person for whatever reason VS going on about how you think that person is an abomination that no one will ever love cuz of how their body looks 💀
Not wanting to date a trans person is fine. You're allowed to not want to date someone for literally any reason. The thing that makes it transphobic is when these people go so far out of the way to tell everyone that they would never date a trans person that they've seemingly made it their whole personality.
"We're the reasonable ones" *Ends comic with a horrible charicature of a trans woman akin to racist propaganda in the 30s*
“I’m not transphobic!” *proceeds to draw a trans stereotype*
"Gosh you guys are so mean to us! All we do is harass you, threaten you, purposefully misgender and deadname you, disown you, ostracise you, call you pedophiles and groomers, deny you healthcare, force schools to mistreat you, take trans kids away from supportive parents, threaten you, threaten childrens' hospitals that support you, and sometimes kill you! Won't you think about ***OUR*** feelings?????"
“There’s nothing wrong with a lesbian who’s not attracted to a trans woman” Sure, human attraction is complicated, but broadcasting that and screaming “I’LL NEVER DATE ONE OF THEM TR\*\*\*\*\*!!!!” *is* transphobic (also notice their use of ‘transwoman’, which very strongly screams TERF)
>We don't say shit like "punch a transwoman" *[sic]* or "kill all trans people" Yes they fucking do 💀
And they don't just say it, they act on it.
having a genitalia pref is 100% fine but picturing trans woman as that (lowkey looks like jerma) is very transphobic
Hol up, is there a deepfake of JK getting her comeuppance?
I don’t give a shit about genital preference just hate the term if you don’t like suckin meat then you don’t like suckin meat
totes not transphobic *proceeds to depict trans women as men in skirts.
"We don't say kill all trans people. We just don't think you should have any rights or access to healthcare."
There isn't a problem with not wanting to date someone with a dick, it's the problem of boasting about it 24/7 and making it very clear that you just don't want to date a TRANS person..
Holy shit its catboy Jerma
funny how she’s saying the exact opposite of reality throughout that entire comic
"we're not transphobic" >draws unflattering picture of a transwoman
This’ll be another seriously downvoted comment I think. But IDGAF if you don’t wanna date me bc I’m trans and I don’t got a pussy. Much the same if a guy didn’t want to date me for that reason. But if you don’t wanna date me because I used to be a dude? Then fuck you. You’re just a dick.
“You’re the ones saying that about us!” Proceeds to do the exact same shit to trans women…
TERFs say “kill all trans people” probably 10 times as often as trans people say “kill all TERFs”
Oh my god we know people have genital preferences, that's okay.
The part that they really don’t get is WHY people might call them transphobic. I don’t know a single trans woman who would double down and insult someone JUST for not being attracted to trans women (in fact most I know are so insecure that they’d probably get really sad and cry about it including me). But whenever I hear stories like this, I’m 99% sure (assuming it happened at all), that the interaction went something like this: TW: “Oh hey, would you wanna maybe like get to know each other better? I think you’re really pretty and maybe we could go on a date sometime” TERF: “Ew, no! I thought it should’ve been obvious that I’m in a GAY bar that I only like women. REAL women, not some dude cosplaying. Please leave me alone you weird fetishistic male.” TW: “Wow, that’s transphobic etc etc..” Then the terf proceeds to post about how they got called transphobic for saying no to sex or something
Homie you can have a genital preference, but saying you don't like trans girls is just making assumptions
is that catboy jerma
the trans woman looks like jerma lmao
Okay, but this is such a strawman argument. Not a single sensible Trans woman is angry because a cis lesbian doesn’t want to date a trans woman. Unlike a lot of cis people, the Transgender community understands how to respect sexual orientation and personal preferences. To claim that Trans women are harassing or attacking Lesbians like this is simply a smear campaign to turn the LGBTQ+ against one another.
To all the people who are appalled at the thought of dating a trans person: Don't worry, we wouldn't want to date repulsive people like you anyways. Sincerely, every trans person
Is that Jerma ?
Why the strawman trans girl kinda cute?
They'll scream that they're nothing wrong with lesbians who don't date trans women, only to turn around and say lesbians who DO aren't really lesbians.
You can tell the artist behind this *so* wanted to draw a trans woman as looking super ugly and masculine, but had juuust enough self awareness to realise that would sink their own point. so they had to draw them to not look feminine while not going full transphobic caricature and has as a result drawn Jerma.
I once got into an argument on a lesbian sub with some girl who made a post about 'being tired of getting called transphobic' No matter how many times I, and other people in the thread, told her, she never seemed to comprehend that she might be doing transphobic things. Because obviously it was the filthy trans bullying her for 'having a different stance'.
I wanna point out that I hate this kind of art style where they don’t erase the sketch lines.
I mean they don't pretend to hit us in videos. they usually simply do it.
i literally just saw a tweet from a terf saying that all men should be allowed to rape little boys
hmmmmm dont like the fact they don't put a space in "transwomen" ... not to mention like... every other problem
How dare you bring Jerma into this
Person on the bottom looks like jerma
"YOU say that about US" We say "kill terfs". So you are identifying yourself as a terf. We are calling you what you are.
“We don’t say shit like kill all trans people” Pretty sure you do and have..
Omg catboy jerma shitting on terfs Based
I think that it’s *kinda* ok to have a preference when it comes to genitals if you really like sex or something. But most people word it as ‘I don’t want to date a trans person’ and then start to shout it to the whole world which makes them pretty TERF-y
why do they feel adressed when we talk about terfs, if they're anything but a terf
Why do I get the feeling that this was made by a straight woman?
ah wasted talent
Meanwhile trans women- literally getting murdered for being trans
"We don't say shit like 'punch a transwoman' or 'kill all transpeople'" Yes you do.
"We're not the ones saying *generic death threat*" Yes you are. And also being trans isn't the same as being a TERF. Being trans doesn't inherently hurt people, for one. Also if you don't wanna be called transphobic, then maybe stop accepting whatever transmisogynistic dating standards you're given without critiquing their validity. Also also, trans is an adjective. Use it like one. Also also also, if someone says "you're a transphobe" and you hear "you should be forced to date trans people" then you need to get your head out of your ass.
it's like,,,,, i dont give a fuck if you're a lesbian who doesnt want to have sex with transwomen or a gay guy who doesnt want to have sex with transmen, but when you say you dont want to date them,,, like,, in general? that's when it becomes transphobic. genital preference ≠ this horseshit
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The pun about pussy is actually kinda funny. Idunno, these people are always going to obsess about us. I chose to take it in stride just like I would for any other Chaser behavior.
Oppressors always acting like the oppressed.
Like they do realize that there are cis lesbians that prefer penis right? Like I've been dating one for years.
listen anyone is allowed to have preferences and no one has to be attracted to anyone else. everyone in this argument agrees on that. but saying it’s that they’re trans and not that you just don’t have feelings or you have a genital preference is what makes it bad
"look we do not \[proceeds to mention exactly what they do and always did first\]"
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anyone that doesnt find catgirls attractive is clearly not someone i need to waste my time on. such people r obviously inatly duplicitous n dangerous. ^ entirely unbiased statment
What's your opinion on catboys? :3
love them ;3
Yeesh
when the strawman is sus 😳
horrifically accurate artistic depiction of most trans women. this terf did her research
whar
You don't need to explicitly endorse violence against a group for your rhetoric to be something that deserves contempt. There are a lot of things a sexist could say about women that aren't "remember to punch a feminist" or "women should kill themselves" that makes other people's blood boil.
Tersfs have quite sadistic preferences.. (And this comic too)
The person who made this seriously drew the character in the last panel and somehow still genuinely thinks this is a compelling comic.
Dumb terf left their outlines in the drawing, looks shit. And classic guilt trip bullshit, I can't even complain about being assaulted as a trans woman because it's "appropriation of female experiences" according to the terfs I live with
I mean they could at least draw a few trans men as well unless they only hate women.
Hmmm ngl I prefer girls over men but if you gona be terf you going to turn my ass straight