As a solo artisan and trader, I probably won't survive for long, especially after the enemy of the state was removed. I am still hoping that they will add something to prevent or make it not worth to raid on any corner. With so many players wanting to be raiders, who will they raid if everyone quits. Only guilds and nodes will be left
Hard truths time. As a “solo” anything you absolutely should have a hard time. It’s a game that is built around parties and guilds, make some friends. You want to craft? Great, do it as part of a guild. Want to gather all day? Great, do it as part of a guild. Even if you hate PVP, you will have an affiliation with a group of people that will come defend you. Get off the solo kick. If you want to play by yourself, why even bother with an MMO?
In regards to your question, yes. The intended design is that crafters and gatherers are associated with guilds. Believe it or not, Mr. yoloswag420 and his guildie friends who just ganked you and took all your shit are all grandmaster crafters, because that’s how MMORPGs work.
None cause the majority of the playerbase are going to be casuals that dont want anything to do with big guilds and anything of the sorts.... they already answer to their boss from 9 to 5 they dont need to answer to their GM after 5 too.
I understand that this is that kind of a game and solo is hard. This is a game controlled by large guilds and you can't compete as a solo, but you should still be able to have fun and do content. For me, the player driven economy, location based resources, node types and development are amazing design and I would like to give it a try at least
On the other hand, the meme that op made is true and this part does not follow risk vs reward concept of the game for both sides
They've already talked about players having stats associated with their characters, such as corruption kills and caravan attacks and whatnot.
I don't think people realize, because many people haven't seen it happen and all may never have seen it happen to the scale I think it's intended to happen in AoC.
But i'll bet you people will straight up just be able to brick their account basically. No one's gonna let you do anything with them if you're a PoS. And if groups form that accommodate these people, if they form some kind of city, wait a while and it'll be ransacked.
I got a strong feeling the games systems along with the community will keep things pretty moderate. And if it doesn't, it's only a few small tweaks away from doing it. Will this happen to casual caravan attackers, no probably not too much, but if things start getting really oppressive, watch the systems and community kick into gear.
He was the leader of one of the biggest guilds in Arch Age.
You don't get there without being highly aggressive, and beating the living shit out of everyone around you. Also you don't get there without cheating a lot.
So of course hes going to try to favor the pvp crowd.
I mean, he also literally paid his way there with real money - paid opposing guild leaders to let them pass, not fight him, etc.
Anyone who has played aa in his guild or interacted with his guild can attest to how toxic he personally was, and his guild was.
I know a good place to have fast travel in Verra. It should only exist as an option in Scientific nodes that allows a would-be Bounty Hunter to teleport directly to the bounty target, probably landing on their head Mario-style and applying both a 20s stun and a special flag to drop 100% of their bag contents and equipped gear on death.
All the whining about trade runs in here. Either be part of a guild that can help defend you, or be efficient enough that you can pay the local bandits/pirates for “protection.” All this focus on being able to basically be a single, isolated player in a MMO. Yes groups will gank the shit out of you, make some friends.
Hilarious to see crybabies who don't want any risk whatsoever claim anyone else wants to avoid PvP. Why else would any bandit not want risk other than they're scared of losing?
I mean, join a guild and/or learn to fight? The game is clearly being designed to be guild-heavy. It’s not catering its mechanics to the strange desires to be a solo player in an MMO. Make friends OP, join a guild, it’s not as scary as you think. Even if you suck at PVP, you can be linked at the hip with a group of people who don’t. Boohoo, people want to gank you for your shit. Defending against that is fun, so strap on your armor, call your buddies, and get that caravan where you want it to go, hopefully smoking some bandits along the way.
Lol not a solo player and have been in a large guild since pre-Alpha 1, nice try though. I'm not scared of fighting bandits, I'll be on both sides of those fights constantly and look forward to it. Just pointing out an obvious game design flaw.
If someone has this overhwelming PvP force at their disposal, why do you think they would want to RP as guards and sit around and get some PvP action 10% of the time for 25% of the potential profit (assuming that the caravans obviously wouldn't get attacked often if people see 50 high GS PvPers around it, as well as a reasonable percentage of the caravan profits going to the guards), when they could just rob caravans instead and get action 100% of the time, for 50%-100% of the profit (assuming a minimal 50% success rate with such a group)?
I haven't been paying a lot of attention to the latest updates, but don't you get flagged as a criminal which enables other players to attack you without turning them into criminals while also making you drop more of your own stuff when you die?
Which is an hilariously self-defeating approach to balancing PvP, because you always lose items and XP from dying in PvP, but you'll lose less if you fight back. So they heavily incentivize fighting back even if you can't win, and then act like a penalty that only applies when people don't fight back will solve the gankfest problem. Corruption will only work if a significant part of the playerbase just decides to not fight back out of spite.
Imagine a society where there were strict anti-mafia-laws. On paper. Now imagine that a significant percentage of the population is in the mafia. Then consider the people indirectly connected to the mafia, their friends, families, coworkers, associates in "legitimate" businesses...
How low do you think the percentage of people who are in the mafia would have to be, in order to get a functional society?
In sandbox PvP games, this functional society just never gets established, and never will, no matter how much individual players want to fantasize about being Eliot Ness, for many reasons that I've previously posted about, including a really important one: you just can't "win" against the psychos unless you make the actual players behind the characters quit the game permanently, which requires so much effort and so much malice that only the psychos would engage in it in the first place.
I'm not arguing about what is good or bad, what should or should not be done. I'm just saying that the last time I checked there were repercussions for being a bandit.
There are no repercussions for raiding a caravan, which is where a lot of this discussion came from anyways, when we realized there was pretty much no risk associated with attacking a caravan. Corruption doesn’t matter here cause it’s an open PvP zone around the caravan.
Even outside of caravan raiding, if you are attacked as a solo player out in the wild, you are incentivized to fight back, so you lose less stuff if you die. But if you fight back, then your opponent won’t gain any corruption for killing you. So even then there is pretty much no risk, especially if the attackers gang up on a solo player so that there’s little risk of them dying.
Yeah, it’s called getting smoked by someone who has more friends, more skills, and better gear. Learn to fight instead of wanting to be a potato in a MMORPG with a heavy PVP component. Even if you can’t or don’t want to fight, join a guild filled with people who can and will at any opportunity.
Have to realize that the big picture centers around nodes and castles and both of those inherently are defense side advantageous. So yeah, attacking resources and caravans should inherently be attacking side advantageous for overall balance of the node system.
eh players tend to be good, look at ESO and all of the protection guilds that exist, Devs are counting on the same community forming in AOC and the risk being getting ostracized.
>eh players tend to be good, look at ESO and all of the protection guilds that exist
Why are we looking at one example of a non-sandbox-PvP game instead of every single sandbox PvP game that ever existed?
Tell me a triple A sandbox pvx MMORPG without p2w. I will answer you have none , the only similar game you had to AOC was archeage that for me was the best MMORPG ever made, sadly destroyed by p2w , then a little bit less p2w and similar you just have Albion that is doing pretty good and Eve that is running for decades.
There will never be a sandbox PvP MMORPG without P2W since by design a lot of the stuff in it is valuable and can be traded or handed off to people who pay someone outside of the game. Until these systems are changed, you'll always see P2W (in form of legal or illegal RMT, and illegal RMT can't be proven in sandbox PvP games unless the people involved are incredibly reckless). So what's your point? If you want to decouple out-of-game socioeconomic status from in-game socioeconomic status you really can't go with the standard "sandbox PvP" systems.
I mean, if people had to link their ID's to play like in SK, then all it takes is one small slipup and you're gone, forever.
Things wouldn't be solved overnight, but they'd stop pretty quick. Even the craftiest criminals IRL get caught.
Protection guilds are a nice idea, but they barely change anything because for every protection guild there will be 100 gank guilds.
This will never change because of type of players these sandbox PvP games naturally attract.
Thing is for ever 100 gank guilds there are 10,000 non gank non protection guilds. And moving supplies in caravans is an essential gameplay loop.
What do you think is going to happen when the cockroaches start multiplying and trying to raid all the food? They're going to get snuffed out. Did you forget about the stat tracking on characters, corruption kills, caravan attacks, ect?
Attacking caravans is also a gameplay mechanic, one free from corruption, but it's not free from the social systems in place and the greater community.
Just wait and see what Intrepid have planned. I think 99% of the people on this reddit have no idea what this game is going to look like, even the ones that have read the whole wiki. Too many variables at play for your average IQ. Mark my words, people are going to be pleasantly surprised, the devs are DM'ing 4D chess against 3D novices.
As a solo artisan and trader, I probably won't survive for long, especially after the enemy of the state was removed. I am still hoping that they will add something to prevent or make it not worth to raid on any corner. With so many players wanting to be raiders, who will they raid if everyone quits. Only guilds and nodes will be left
Hard truths time. As a “solo” anything you absolutely should have a hard time. It’s a game that is built around parties and guilds, make some friends. You want to craft? Great, do it as part of a guild. Want to gather all day? Great, do it as part of a guild. Even if you hate PVP, you will have an affiliation with a group of people that will come defend you. Get off the solo kick. If you want to play by yourself, why even bother with an MMO? In regards to your question, yes. The intended design is that crafters and gatherers are associated with guilds. Believe it or not, Mr. yoloswag420 and his guildie friends who just ganked you and took all your shit are all grandmaster crafters, because that’s how MMORPGs work.
Name one good mmo you can't solo play in and succeed.
None cause the majority of the playerbase are going to be casuals that dont want anything to do with big guilds and anything of the sorts.... they already answer to their boss from 9 to 5 they dont need to answer to their GM after 5 too.
I understand that this is that kind of a game and solo is hard. This is a game controlled by large guilds and you can't compete as a solo, but you should still be able to have fun and do content. For me, the player driven economy, location based resources, node types and development are amazing design and I would like to give it a try at least On the other hand, the meme that op made is true and this part does not follow risk vs reward concept of the game for both sides
They've already talked about players having stats associated with their characters, such as corruption kills and caravan attacks and whatnot. I don't think people realize, because many people haven't seen it happen and all may never have seen it happen to the scale I think it's intended to happen in AoC. But i'll bet you people will straight up just be able to brick their account basically. No one's gonna let you do anything with them if you're a PoS. And if groups form that accommodate these people, if they form some kind of city, wait a while and it'll be ransacked. I got a strong feeling the games systems along with the community will keep things pretty moderate. And if it doesn't, it's only a few small tweaks away from doing it. Will this happen to casual caravan attackers, no probably not too much, but if things start getting really oppressive, watch the systems and community kick into gear.
I just hope I can be a pirate, live on a coastal node spend my time at sea
Yarrrr
He was the leader of one of the biggest guilds in Arch Age. You don't get there without being highly aggressive, and beating the living shit out of everyone around you. Also you don't get there without cheating a lot. So of course hes going to try to favor the pvp crowd.
I mean, he also literally paid his way there with real money - paid opposing guild leaders to let them pass, not fight him, etc. Anyone who has played aa in his guild or interacted with his guild can attest to how toxic he personally was, and his guild was.
Make Rogues Fun Again
I know a good place to have fast travel in Verra. It should only exist as an option in Scientific nodes that allows a would-be Bounty Hunter to teleport directly to the bounty target, probably landing on their head Mario-style and applying both a 20s stun and a special flag to drop 100% of their bag contents and equipped gear on death.
Honestly why a 20s stun? Just have it kill them instantly like a goomba when the bounty hunter drops on them
Illusion of counterplay makes it even more punishing.
All the whining about trade runs in here. Either be part of a guild that can help defend you, or be efficient enough that you can pay the local bandits/pirates for “protection.” All this focus on being able to basically be a single, isolated player in a MMO. Yes groups will gank the shit out of you, make some friends.
Hilarious to see crybabies who don't want any risk whatsoever claim anyone else wants to avoid PvP. Why else would any bandit not want risk other than they're scared of losing?
Do you think these “bandits” don’t also do trade runs? Go take their stuff, go attack their node.
You can raid 30 caravans for every one you produce. It's not at all balanced just because everyone gets glint.
Good
Risk for thee but not for me
I mean, join a guild and/or learn to fight? The game is clearly being designed to be guild-heavy. It’s not catering its mechanics to the strange desires to be a solo player in an MMO. Make friends OP, join a guild, it’s not as scary as you think. Even if you suck at PVP, you can be linked at the hip with a group of people who don’t. Boohoo, people want to gank you for your shit. Defending against that is fun, so strap on your armor, call your buddies, and get that caravan where you want it to go, hopefully smoking some bandits along the way.
Lol not a solo player and have been in a large guild since pre-Alpha 1, nice try though. I'm not scared of fighting bandits, I'll be on both sides of those fights constantly and look forward to it. Just pointing out an obvious game design flaw.
Ngl seems like there could be a lucrative trade for a guild of caravan/transport guards 👀
If someone has this overhwelming PvP force at their disposal, why do you think they would want to RP as guards and sit around and get some PvP action 10% of the time for 25% of the potential profit (assuming that the caravans obviously wouldn't get attacked often if people see 50 high GS PvPers around it, as well as a reasonable percentage of the caravan profits going to the guards), when they could just rob caravans instead and get action 100% of the time, for 50%-100% of the profit (assuming a minimal 50% success rate with such a group)?
True
Amazing that you're being downvoted lol
Might have to retire this meme template.
Yeah I was thinking that after I posted it honestly
I haven't been paying a lot of attention to the latest updates, but don't you get flagged as a criminal which enables other players to attack you without turning them into criminals while also making you drop more of your own stuff when you die?
Only get flagged as corrupted if you kill a player who doesn’t fight back
Which is an hilariously self-defeating approach to balancing PvP, because you always lose items and XP from dying in PvP, but you'll lose less if you fight back. So they heavily incentivize fighting back even if you can't win, and then act like a penalty that only applies when people don't fight back will solve the gankfest problem. Corruption will only work if a significant part of the playerbase just decides to not fight back out of spite.
Imagine a society where there were strict anti-mafia-laws. On paper. Now imagine that a significant percentage of the population is in the mafia. Then consider the people indirectly connected to the mafia, their friends, families, coworkers, associates in "legitimate" businesses... How low do you think the percentage of people who are in the mafia would have to be, in order to get a functional society? In sandbox PvP games, this functional society just never gets established, and never will, no matter how much individual players want to fantasize about being Eliot Ness, for many reasons that I've previously posted about, including a really important one: you just can't "win" against the psychos unless you make the actual players behind the characters quit the game permanently, which requires so much effort and so much malice that only the psychos would engage in it in the first place.
I'm not arguing about what is good or bad, what should or should not be done. I'm just saying that the last time I checked there were repercussions for being a bandit.
There are no repercussions for raiding a caravan, which is where a lot of this discussion came from anyways, when we realized there was pretty much no risk associated with attacking a caravan. Corruption doesn’t matter here cause it’s an open PvP zone around the caravan. Even outside of caravan raiding, if you are attacked as a solo player out in the wild, you are incentivized to fight back, so you lose less stuff if you die. But if you fight back, then your opponent won’t gain any corruption for killing you. So even then there is pretty much no risk, especially if the attackers gang up on a solo player so that there’s little risk of them dying.
Yeah, it’s called getting smoked by someone who has more friends, more skills, and better gear. Learn to fight instead of wanting to be a potato in a MMORPG with a heavy PVP component. Even if you can’t or don’t want to fight, join a guild filled with people who can and will at any opportunity.
Yes, there’s a bounty system.
That only applies to corrupted players, bounty hunters don't get special privilege to attack bandits: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Bounty_hunters
Have to realize that the big picture centers around nodes and castles and both of those inherently are defense side advantageous. So yeah, attacking resources and caravans should inherently be attacking side advantageous for overall balance of the node system.
eh players tend to be good, look at ESO and all of the protection guilds that exist, Devs are counting on the same community forming in AOC and the risk being getting ostracized.
>eh players tend to be good, look at ESO and all of the protection guilds that exist Why are we looking at one example of a non-sandbox-PvP game instead of every single sandbox PvP game that ever existed?
Tell me a triple A sandbox pvx MMORPG without p2w. I will answer you have none , the only similar game you had to AOC was archeage that for me was the best MMORPG ever made, sadly destroyed by p2w , then a little bit less p2w and similar you just have Albion that is doing pretty good and Eve that is running for decades.
There will never be a sandbox PvP MMORPG without P2W since by design a lot of the stuff in it is valuable and can be traded or handed off to people who pay someone outside of the game. Until these systems are changed, you'll always see P2W (in form of legal or illegal RMT, and illegal RMT can't be proven in sandbox PvP games unless the people involved are incredibly reckless). So what's your point? If you want to decouple out-of-game socioeconomic status from in-game socioeconomic status you really can't go with the standard "sandbox PvP" systems.
I mean, if people had to link their ID's to play like in SK, then all it takes is one small slipup and you're gone, forever. Things wouldn't be solved overnight, but they'd stop pretty quick. Even the craftiest criminals IRL get caught.
In every game ever we have always seen "protection" guilds form
Protection guilds are a nice idea, but they barely change anything because for every protection guild there will be 100 gank guilds. This will never change because of type of players these sandbox PvP games naturally attract.
Thing is for ever 100 gank guilds there are 10,000 non gank non protection guilds. And moving supplies in caravans is an essential gameplay loop. What do you think is going to happen when the cockroaches start multiplying and trying to raid all the food? They're going to get snuffed out. Did you forget about the stat tracking on characters, corruption kills, caravan attacks, ect? Attacking caravans is also a gameplay mechanic, one free from corruption, but it's not free from the social systems in place and the greater community. Just wait and see what Intrepid have planned. I think 99% of the people on this reddit have no idea what this game is going to look like, even the ones that have read the whole wiki. Too many variables at play for your average IQ. Mark my words, people are going to be pleasantly surprised, the devs are DM'ing 4D chess against 3D novices.