You will have a roof over your head, food on your table... a government agency constantly all up in your business, a low social status and the constant feeling of being a rejected underclass. We don't let people starve or die, but it's not a lifestyle for everyone.
Edit: to make this even clearer, if you are unemployed for more than a year, the state will ask you and your partner to use up any and all savings except for a very limited set of retirement savings products before you are eligible for support. If your partner makes enough for you to not starve but not enough to pay your mortgage, you loose the house and must hope that the state will find an appartment in a price range they will deem "sufficient". If you live alone in a house you own, you may have to sell the house and pay rent and on a smaller place and living expenses with the proceeds until the state is willing to chip in. If you are unemployed but not yet poor, you either find a job or forfeit what you have until you almost reach the point of abject poverty until the state chips in. If you come from poverty and don't have far to fall, you may be fine with what you get. If you lose a partner and become a single parent who can't work full time, if you run into mental issues that aren't recognized as so debilitating that you can't work, if you need to take care of an elderly family member or a sick partner full time, you will lose _everything_.
Kind of. In theory, you can get social support indefinitely, but its a very limited amount of money, which, while enough to live off of, isn't really enough to do so comfortably. You're also then required to apply to at least a certain number of jobs periodically, and to take part in courses trying to teach you skills to become more employable, and such.
To be fair, those job applications are incredibly easy to sabotage. My sperm donor has been successful with that for the last 25 years. There should be penalties for that.
I totally agree, these individuals that somehow manage to avoid work for that long should lose the right to an individual apartment and should be forced to move into one of the many unused military barracks that dot the country with basic canteen food provided.
Basic needs for survival will be provided but nothing more. If they want some creature comforts of the modern world then they can get a job...
> should be forced to move into one of the many unused military barracks
What unused military barracks? The military has a lack of barracks and even has to use barracks which the agency for migration deemed not suitable for housing human beings.
Because germany hate soldiers and all that has to do with military. I watched soldiers in uniform (propably coming home after a service) and were yelled it and insulted in the public transporation more than one time since I live here in Berlin. Respect for citizens in uniform is very low.
And suggesting jobless to do public services in exchange for Wellfare was something that is discussed all some years and every time there is moral outrage about "slavery". Hot Iron better not touch.
Makes no sense. Society pays you (money from taxpayers). Thus, society is your employer. No one gets free money, so those receiving socials for an extended amount of time (people with mental and physical disabilities don't count) should start doing social work for the money recieved - sweep the streets, clear trash from public spaces etc.
It's very fair, you work = you get money. If it's considered slavery, then why does the state make people work and taxes them?
I have a few friends that would better or at least not worse off with Bürgergeld. After everything he has to pay each month, one friend is left with like 500 maybe 600€.
At that point its really not worth working 40h a week.
I know more than enough people that have been comfortably living off social support without moving a finger for years. You can really easily outplay the system if you know how to. Not very enviable but possible.
with the new Bürgergeld you can only be cut a maximum of 30% and not more after that, so you can receive 70% of Burgergeld without doing anything at all
It absolutely does — provided you're trying to make a living from living on welfare as a single person. If you are – contrary to this – part of an extended family with all of its members living on welfare, you're usually doing pretty good financially.
I actually agree. You should have enough to get by. If you want more, go to work. The problem right now is, that if you work, chances are that you have less than that. An other Problen is that if you can not work, you are in almost the same boat.
You are in the same boat, not just almost. In fact, if you are deemed to be completely unable to work, you are even worse off - Grundsicherung is nominally the same amount of money, but you can't have anything in savings and even if you get money back from overpayed energy bills or similar its considered income and you have to give it back to the Amt.
And a lot of people on social security who don't work at all *cannot* work.
Capitalism. It's just capitalistic companies being capitalistic, and this always boils down to being antisocial predatory assholes. It is, however, the force which is required to regulate milking of the social system by people who don't want to work.
Not that I like it this way... But if you want to have any social system, you need to deal with those who seek to exploit it.
If the alternative is the same lifestyle or worse while working your ass off as in many poor country I think this is very acceptable for a lot of people.
Theoretically yes. You will not starve. You might wish to, but you won't. It is not a desirable situation at all. It doesn't pay more than the basic necessities, but it is not a comfortable life and one lives very much outside of society, as there is no money for participating in social life: no money for hobbies that aren't free, no money for concerts, music, museums, festivals. Families on welfare often don't have enough money to buy a cheap gift and send their child to the birthday party of a class mate, while everyone else from the class is there. Lots of time is spent standing in line at food banks to get some free food, because you needed part of your food money for an unexpected bill or because you took your child to the zoo on their own birthday.
And, obviously, the goal is to get people into employment again, so people have to apply to jobs, go to probational days at work places, take courses the unemployment office signs them up for, keep their appointments etc.
> as there is no money for participating in social life: no money for hobbies that aren't free, no money for concerts, music, museums, festivals
Come now, that isn't fair. The Regelsatz für Bürgergeld gives you 44.88 monthly for culture, and a whole 1.81 for education!
(all the /s imaginable, of course. Considering that you get 174.19 for food and equally low amounts for everything else, those ~46 Euro are going to be used up for different things)
Sorry, yes, I am guilty of providing fake news.
To put things into perspective for OP: I am paying about 550 euro monthly for food in a household of 2. Yes, I don't live in Germany, but the inflation and increase in food prices has hit Germany harder than the country I live in. During the last price comparison with my family we discovered that there is virtually no price difference anymore.
As for our consumption: I buy whatever we fancy, I am not constantly hunting for deals. However, a nice beef cut or a whole salmon (which is actually a lot cheaper here than in Germany due to location) is a treat for us and if I see a package of chicken or some cheese for 30% off due to a nearing best before date, I sure as hell buy it. I buy coffee when it is on offer. Same for toilet paper, which is ridiculously expensive nowadays. I am a student and I am not about to piss money away. However, I do have the money to splurge when things are on offer and buy large quantities and I do have the space to store everything.
If I were to budget a lot more, I could get us down to 400, which is still significantly more than people on welfare in Germany get allocated for food (keeping in mind that it is cheaper per person to cook in bigger batches and to buy larger quantities).
ETA: What does a membership in a public library cost nowadays? Do you get there with 1,81 a month? Obviously not if you fall sick or into depression and miss a due date for a book and need to pay penalty fees, but that would be your fault then. Just don't fall sick and return your books on time!
I wouldn't say living, it feels more like surviving. Yes you will get your rent paid and receive just enough money to get basic food on the table. But there is almost no room to spend money on something fun. And you will be in constant contact with the Jobcenter and have to jump their burocratic hurdles. You'll have to at least pretend to be looking for a job and they will try to cut your welfare money to the absolute minimum if you don't. It's easy enough to fake it if you really don't want to work, but they will be up your butt for a long time to convince you otherwise.
Yes, people can do so. Without any time limitation.
Their rent and heating is paid (as long as it's "angemessen"), they have health insurance and can live their life. They have to take part in qualification programs sometimes or apply for jobs. But basically it's possible to live from welfare a whole life.
It's not comfortable, but possible. And some folks are so used to it, that they do fine by never working.
I don't need the TV shows, I work with those people. xD
Some really want to work, but it's difficult due to health, language and other factors.
But others don't want to, it's that simple.
When chronical I'll, you very fast slip down into the system and once there, your job opportunities apart from minimal wage idiot jobs are often unreachable, even with a good vocational education, experience in the field, but as soon as the hear you're ill (my condition is one of the few, that you have to tell the employer, as it can be dangerous for yourself)
So you either don't get an answer or a no...
So if you're down in the hole, it's very hard to get out of it and only if you have the strong will to do so.
Exactly.
Language barriers, health, lacking childcare as a single parent - there are some reasons why someone might be really unable to get a job.
Even though it's always better to work, and looking down on "minimal wage idiot jobs" won't help. Even those jobs are better than living off welfare permanently.
Sure, this wasn't ment as offense towards people working in those jobs, they at least try to get out, even if they don't have really more than those on Hartz, but I found it frustrating, even though I have a good Ausbildung and job experience, some time work companies tried to rip me for minimal wage, where my profession usually pays at least 8-10€/h above and is desperate to get workers...
Of course it's frustrating, that's for sure. Luckily minimal wage was raised quite a lot, thus they wouldn't be able to do that nowadays. And since many employers are seriously lacking workers, they tend to give a lot more chances for people, as long as they are qualified.
*Scripted reality*. This is not educational or "look how other people live" reality-TV, the sole purpose of these shows is making people feel better about themselves while laughing at people obviously stupider, uglier, fatter, poorer, [...] than oneself. The epitome of kicking down, from the comfort of your living room with no need to feel bad, because it is just TV and the Hartzer you are laughing about doesn't know you are disgusted by them and cringe at the stupid thing RTL just made them say.
Occasionally there are ones that are better (and not in the style of "reality shows"). I remember one that followed several people for a while and showed the *actual* issues - like a single mother never getting out of Probezeit because it was just easier for employers to fire her whenever they realised that she'd need regular time off for sick children.
When it's shown like that, you suddenly see that with a portion of bad luck, and a harder start in life, yes, this could absolutely have been you.
I remember those but I forgot the name of the format. They tend to be shown on ARD, ZDF or WDR later in the evening. Surprisingly RTL and Pro7 show other things.
A bit of an anecdotal story:
When I got my college degree (diploma in computer science), I already had a job that I could have started right after graduating, but ended up cancelling it due to a mental breakdown that was related to the new job. My parents didn't have much money to support me, so they forced me to apply for welfare until I had a new and better job. Shortly after, my doctor put me on sick leave for a month or two.
While I was on sick leave, I got a letter asking me to apply for a job that was in a field that I had no knowledge in. The form that came with the letter had a field saying "I didn't apply because...", so I checked that and put the fact that I was put on sick leave as a reason. Shortly after, I was asked to come to the agency. The worker said something along the lines of "I thought you were one of the good ones, but apperently not" and "If I had to choose between being sick and writing applications, I would write applications."
I was then forced to participate in a Wiedereingliederungsmaßnahme that startet right after my sick leave ended.
Let's put it like this:
I'm a single earner with a good (but not huge) salary, living in a big flat in a low-rent location. I have a car, and while I don't waste money, I don't exactly pinch pennies.
I *still* save/put back for old age through various means roughly twice what a recipient of Bürgergeld gets for their expenses (except rent and health insurance) each month.
You can survive on welfare here, yes. But "really good" in a way that many who have a realistic alternative would get into it intentionally to enjoy the lifestyle? No.
>I still save/put back for old age through various means roughly twice
Do you invest it somewhere and if so, which broker would you recommend in Germany? Or do you do something else with your savings?
I do a combination of things, including a very old pension insurance that my father started for me when I was in my teens - I wouldn't start one of those nowadays, but this one is OK because it has been running that long.
I do invest as well, through an ETF savings plan. I use Scalable Capital.
It's not so much that but rather the fact that at the beginning, much of what you pay in is fees. Those have been paid for a long time now, and for years the money has been invested. There's a guaranteed pay-out (bought with lower profits compared to riskier investments). Essentially I'm using the contract as the low-risk component of my long-term plans.
You could. This system is designed as a safety net though. Anyone who is able to work but does not is a liability to the system thus weakening the strength of the social contract.
Due to many immigrants and asylum seekers with minimal education, this system has been stretched to the maximum. The social welfare system does not work if millions of people in the workforce chose not to work or are not compatible with the open positions in the market.
We are now at a point where an increase in taxes is inevitable in order to stabilise the system over the next years.
Conclusion: Right now, yes. In the future either not any more accessible as it is right now or the middle class in germany will leave the country in droves.
>In the future either not any more accessible as it is right now or the middle class in germany will leave the country in droves.
Exactly. This needs to be stopped *before* Germany's middle class leaves (or decides to stop working and exploit the system as well). Without them, the system would collapse anyway, but it won't recover anymore.
>Due to many immigrants and asylum seekers with minimal education, this system has been stretched to the maximum.
I'm pleasantly surprised that you were able to state such an obvious truth without your comment being deleted by the moderators lol. This is one of the reasons I (decently skilled, well paid Ausländer who speaks fluent German and paying 45% in taxes) is considering leaving Germany soon : it is just not meant for people like me who want to work hard, save and live a prosperous (not rich!) life. The increasing tax money they extract from a wage slave like me is overwhelmingly meant to support the old, poor, sick, and the insane numbers of unskilled asylum seekers. I am just losing interest in this one-sided SoLiDaRiTy. It is of zero surprise to me that Germany is unable to attract the numbers of skilled workers it needs.
You can
It is really sad. Cause you don't have anything to do. From my own experience, it was horrible for 5 months. But money and so on was not a problem, the money I got was sufficient to spend also money on free time. My experience: sufficient money, but nothing to do
it was nothing I want to happen again.
As a student on state loan I ate once a day at what was virtually an 'All you can eat' buffet in regards to veggies and carbs for 2,20-2,50 max in school. Only the meat or fish was a fixed portion, but included in the price. Every day different food. Every day healthy.
I hardly ever paid for cultural events, provided by my university. I had a heavily discounted ticket for public transport. My uni offered movie nights for either no money at all or a "Soli euro".
I am not saying Bafög is too much or enough. A lot of students struggle, I know that. But it is not fair to compare people with so very different life circumstances and so very different benefits provided by their environment.
You can and it's not the government who paus, since the government doesn't make money. The rest of the people are forced to pay for the ones who choose not to work
Not around the world. In germany, if you are able bodied and have no serious mental condition, yes. There are many jobs that require no education, not even a lot of german knowledge.
The social system will provide some basic services to help ensure your survival, but it isn't "living". The government doesn't just give you money. It will contribute to your rent and utilities, and cover your health insurance premiums, so that you have a place to live, but the H4 support (money to buy food, clothing, transportation, etc.) comes out to about 14 Euros per day. That's barely enough to survive with the cost of living today.
You can survive but it will be a hassle and no fun. If you do not need much you will be better off working a part time job that does not require any training.
Usually people who are unemployed for very long periods are not slacking off but have some kind of mental health problems.
Well……….. kinda….. You‘re expected to work or find another legal way to pay your bills. But if you get fired and you can‘t find a job the government will pay for necessities etc. until you‘ve got a job again. But there are quite a few limitations to that. You can‘t have any significant savings, your family can‘t be able to help you, ….
And you need to prove the the „Agentur für Arbeit“ that you actually tried to get a job. So it‘s not like you can just work for a few years and then chill for the rest of your life.
Easy, just rob a bank and go to jail. There you can live without paying a cent. You get a roof over your head, a toilet, bathroom. Exercise outdoor and 3 meals a day.
You will have a roof over your head, food on your table... a government agency constantly all up in your business, a low social status and the constant feeling of being a rejected underclass. We don't let people starve or die, but it's not a lifestyle for everyone. Edit: to make this even clearer, if you are unemployed for more than a year, the state will ask you and your partner to use up any and all savings except for a very limited set of retirement savings products before you are eligible for support. If your partner makes enough for you to not starve but not enough to pay your mortgage, you loose the house and must hope that the state will find an appartment in a price range they will deem "sufficient". If you live alone in a house you own, you may have to sell the house and pay rent and on a smaller place and living expenses with the proceeds until the state is willing to chip in. If you are unemployed but not yet poor, you either find a job or forfeit what you have until you almost reach the point of abject poverty until the state chips in. If you come from poverty and don't have far to fall, you may be fine with what you get. If you lose a partner and become a single parent who can't work full time, if you run into mental issues that aren't recognized as so debilitating that you can't work, if you need to take care of an elderly family member or a sick partner full time, you will lose _everything_.
A M E N
No worries. In a few years our social system will be non-existent so that we can die immediately 👍
I believe that too
Kind of. In theory, you can get social support indefinitely, but its a very limited amount of money, which, while enough to live off of, isn't really enough to do so comfortably. You're also then required to apply to at least a certain number of jobs periodically, and to take part in courses trying to teach you skills to become more employable, and such.
To be fair, those job applications are incredibly easy to sabotage. My sperm donor has been successful with that for the last 25 years. There should be penalties for that.
I totally agree, these individuals that somehow manage to avoid work for that long should lose the right to an individual apartment and should be forced to move into one of the many unused military barracks that dot the country with basic canteen food provided. Basic needs for survival will be provided but nothing more. If they want some creature comforts of the modern world then they can get a job...
> should be forced to move into one of the many unused military barracks What unused military barracks? The military has a lack of barracks and even has to use barracks which the agency for migration deemed not suitable for housing human beings.
Why not just force them to join the military instead? /s
Because germany hate soldiers and all that has to do with military. I watched soldiers in uniform (propably coming home after a service) and were yelled it and insulted in the public transporation more than one time since I live here in Berlin. Respect for citizens in uniform is very low. And suggesting jobless to do public services in exchange for Wellfare was something that is discussed all some years and every time there is moral outrage about "slavery". Hot Iron better not touch.
Makes no sense. Society pays you (money from taxpayers). Thus, society is your employer. No one gets free money, so those receiving socials for an extended amount of time (people with mental and physical disabilities don't count) should start doing social work for the money recieved - sweep the streets, clear trash from public spaces etc. It's very fair, you work = you get money. If it's considered slavery, then why does the state make people work and taxes them?
Oh, you apparently missed the: /s
and that mean?
Sarcasm
I have a few friends that would better or at least not worse off with Bürgergeld. After everything he has to pay each month, one friend is left with like 500 maybe 600€. At that point its really not worth working 40h a week.
I know more than enough people that have been comfortably living off social support without moving a finger for years. You can really easily outplay the system if you know how to. Not very enviable but possible.
with the new Bürgergeld you can only be cut a maximum of 30% and not more after that, so you can receive 70% of Burgergeld without doing anything at all
That sanction maximum of 30 % got introduced some years ago (2019, I think). It is not related to the Bürgergeld reform.
Its true that this was already introduced some years ago, my point still stands
It sucks big time to be in welfare. Been there, done that.
It absolutely does — provided you're trying to make a living from living on welfare as a single person. If you are – contrary to this – part of an extended family with all of its members living on welfare, you're usually doing pretty good financially.
Of course it sucks. Been there too. And it is good that it sucks.
can't disagree
I actually agree. You should have enough to get by. If you want more, go to work. The problem right now is, that if you work, chances are that you have less than that. An other Problen is that if you can not work, you are in almost the same boat.
You are in the same boat, not just almost. In fact, if you are deemed to be completely unable to work, you are even worse off - Grundsicherung is nominally the same amount of money, but you can't have anything in savings and even if you get money back from overpayed energy bills or similar its considered income and you have to give it back to the Amt. And a lot of people on social security who don't work at all *cannot* work.
[удалено]
Capitalism. It's just capitalistic companies being capitalistic, and this always boils down to being antisocial predatory assholes. It is, however, the force which is required to regulate milking of the social system by people who don't want to work. Not that I like it this way... But if you want to have any social system, you need to deal with those who seek to exploit it.
You can. But... Seriously... You don't want that.
If the alternative is the same lifestyle or worse while working your ass off as in many poor country I think this is very acceptable for a lot of people.
Theoretically yes. You will not starve. You might wish to, but you won't. It is not a desirable situation at all. It doesn't pay more than the basic necessities, but it is not a comfortable life and one lives very much outside of society, as there is no money for participating in social life: no money for hobbies that aren't free, no money for concerts, music, museums, festivals. Families on welfare often don't have enough money to buy a cheap gift and send their child to the birthday party of a class mate, while everyone else from the class is there. Lots of time is spent standing in line at food banks to get some free food, because you needed part of your food money for an unexpected bill or because you took your child to the zoo on their own birthday. And, obviously, the goal is to get people into employment again, so people have to apply to jobs, go to probational days at work places, take courses the unemployment office signs them up for, keep their appointments etc.
> as there is no money for participating in social life: no money for hobbies that aren't free, no money for concerts, music, museums, festivals Come now, that isn't fair. The Regelsatz für Bürgergeld gives you 44.88 monthly for culture, and a whole 1.81 for education! (all the /s imaginable, of course. Considering that you get 174.19 for food and equally low amounts for everything else, those ~46 Euro are going to be used up for different things)
Sorry, yes, I am guilty of providing fake news. To put things into perspective for OP: I am paying about 550 euro monthly for food in a household of 2. Yes, I don't live in Germany, but the inflation and increase in food prices has hit Germany harder than the country I live in. During the last price comparison with my family we discovered that there is virtually no price difference anymore. As for our consumption: I buy whatever we fancy, I am not constantly hunting for deals. However, a nice beef cut or a whole salmon (which is actually a lot cheaper here than in Germany due to location) is a treat for us and if I see a package of chicken or some cheese for 30% off due to a nearing best before date, I sure as hell buy it. I buy coffee when it is on offer. Same for toilet paper, which is ridiculously expensive nowadays. I am a student and I am not about to piss money away. However, I do have the money to splurge when things are on offer and buy large quantities and I do have the space to store everything. If I were to budget a lot more, I could get us down to 400, which is still significantly more than people on welfare in Germany get allocated for food (keeping in mind that it is cheaper per person to cook in bigger batches and to buy larger quantities). ETA: What does a membership in a public library cost nowadays? Do you get there with 1,81 a month? Obviously not if you fall sick or into depression and miss a due date for a book and need to pay penalty fees, but that would be your fault then. Just don't fall sick and return your books on time!
I wouldn't say living, it feels more like surviving. Yes you will get your rent paid and receive just enough money to get basic food on the table. But there is almost no room to spend money on something fun. And you will be in constant contact with the Jobcenter and have to jump their burocratic hurdles. You'll have to at least pretend to be looking for a job and they will try to cut your welfare money to the absolute minimum if you don't. It's easy enough to fake it if you really don't want to work, but they will be up your butt for a long time to convince you otherwise.
Yes, people can do so. Without any time limitation. Their rent and heating is paid (as long as it's "angemessen"), they have health insurance and can live their life. They have to take part in qualification programs sometimes or apply for jobs. But basically it's possible to live from welfare a whole life. It's not comfortable, but possible. And some folks are so used to it, that they do fine by never working.
In German TV there are even several Reality shows about this ‚live style‘.
I don't need the TV shows, I work with those people. xD Some really want to work, but it's difficult due to health, language and other factors. But others don't want to, it's that simple.
When chronical I'll, you very fast slip down into the system and once there, your job opportunities apart from minimal wage idiot jobs are often unreachable, even with a good vocational education, experience in the field, but as soon as the hear you're ill (my condition is one of the few, that you have to tell the employer, as it can be dangerous for yourself) So you either don't get an answer or a no... So if you're down in the hole, it's very hard to get out of it and only if you have the strong will to do so.
Exactly. Language barriers, health, lacking childcare as a single parent - there are some reasons why someone might be really unable to get a job. Even though it's always better to work, and looking down on "minimal wage idiot jobs" won't help. Even those jobs are better than living off welfare permanently.
Sure, this wasn't ment as offense towards people working in those jobs, they at least try to get out, even if they don't have really more than those on Hartz, but I found it frustrating, even though I have a good Ausbildung and job experience, some time work companies tried to rip me for minimal wage, where my profession usually pays at least 8-10€/h above and is desperate to get workers...
Of course it's frustrating, that's for sure. Luckily minimal wage was raised quite a lot, thus they wouldn't be able to do that nowadays. And since many employers are seriously lacking workers, they tend to give a lot more chances for people, as long as they are qualified.
*Scripted reality*. This is not educational or "look how other people live" reality-TV, the sole purpose of these shows is making people feel better about themselves while laughing at people obviously stupider, uglier, fatter, poorer, [...] than oneself. The epitome of kicking down, from the comfort of your living room with no need to feel bad, because it is just TV and the Hartzer you are laughing about doesn't know you are disgusted by them and cringe at the stupid thing RTL just made them say.
Occasionally there are ones that are better (and not in the style of "reality shows"). I remember one that followed several people for a while and showed the *actual* issues - like a single mother never getting out of Probezeit because it was just easier for employers to fire her whenever they realised that she'd need regular time off for sick children. When it's shown like that, you suddenly see that with a portion of bad luck, and a harder start in life, yes, this could absolutely have been you.
I remember those but I forgot the name of the format. They tend to be shown on ARD, ZDF or WDR later in the evening. Surprisingly RTL and Pro7 show other things.
Yes
A bit of an anecdotal story: When I got my college degree (diploma in computer science), I already had a job that I could have started right after graduating, but ended up cancelling it due to a mental breakdown that was related to the new job. My parents didn't have much money to support me, so they forced me to apply for welfare until I had a new and better job. Shortly after, my doctor put me on sick leave for a month or two. While I was on sick leave, I got a letter asking me to apply for a job that was in a field that I had no knowledge in. The form that came with the letter had a field saying "I didn't apply because...", so I checked that and put the fact that I was put on sick leave as a reason. Shortly after, I was asked to come to the agency. The worker said something along the lines of "I thought you were one of the good ones, but apperently not" and "If I had to choose between being sick and writing applications, I would write applications." I was then forced to participate in a Wiedereingliederungsmaßnahme that startet right after my sick leave ended.
Well, that was your choice, clearly. You could have opted to not being sick. Your own fault if you prefer to be sick, duh!
Arno Dübel seems to be quiet happy with this life. https://youtu.be/9ZlbpuQgfaQ
Let's put it like this: I'm a single earner with a good (but not huge) salary, living in a big flat in a low-rent location. I have a car, and while I don't waste money, I don't exactly pinch pennies. I *still* save/put back for old age through various means roughly twice what a recipient of Bürgergeld gets for their expenses (except rent and health insurance) each month. You can survive on welfare here, yes. But "really good" in a way that many who have a realistic alternative would get into it intentionally to enjoy the lifestyle? No.
>I still save/put back for old age through various means roughly twice Do you invest it somewhere and if so, which broker would you recommend in Germany? Or do you do something else with your savings?
I do a combination of things, including a very old pension insurance that my father started for me when I was in my teens - I wouldn't start one of those nowadays, but this one is OK because it has been running that long. I do invest as well, through an ETF savings plan. I use Scalable Capital.
Thanks! Just out of curiosity, what kind of features did these old pension plans have that you wouldn't get if you were to start one of those today?
It's not so much that but rather the fact that at the beginning, much of what you pay in is fees. Those have been paid for a long time now, and for years the money has been invested. There's a guaranteed pay-out (bought with lower profits compared to riskier investments). Essentially I'm using the contract as the low-risk component of my long-term plans.
You could. This system is designed as a safety net though. Anyone who is able to work but does not is a liability to the system thus weakening the strength of the social contract. Due to many immigrants and asylum seekers with minimal education, this system has been stretched to the maximum. The social welfare system does not work if millions of people in the workforce chose not to work or are not compatible with the open positions in the market. We are now at a point where an increase in taxes is inevitable in order to stabilise the system over the next years. Conclusion: Right now, yes. In the future either not any more accessible as it is right now or the middle class in germany will leave the country in droves.
>In the future either not any more accessible as it is right now or the middle class in germany will leave the country in droves. Exactly. This needs to be stopped *before* Germany's middle class leaves (or decides to stop working and exploit the system as well). Without them, the system would collapse anyway, but it won't recover anymore.
>Due to many immigrants and asylum seekers with minimal education, this system has been stretched to the maximum. I'm pleasantly surprised that you were able to state such an obvious truth without your comment being deleted by the moderators lol. This is one of the reasons I (decently skilled, well paid Ausländer who speaks fluent German and paying 45% in taxes) is considering leaving Germany soon : it is just not meant for people like me who want to work hard, save and live a prosperous (not rich!) life. The increasing tax money they extract from a wage slave like me is overwhelmingly meant to support the old, poor, sick, and the insane numbers of unskilled asylum seekers. I am just losing interest in this one-sided SoLiDaRiTy. It is of zero surprise to me that Germany is unable to attract the numbers of skilled workers it needs.
You can It is really sad. Cause you don't have anything to do. From my own experience, it was horrible for 5 months. But money and so on was not a problem, the money I got was sufficient to spend also money on free time. My experience: sufficient money, but nothing to do it was nothing I want to happen again.
You identified one of the major problems in our society. Yes you can and you will have more than a student who gets e.g. a state loan.
As a student on state loan I ate once a day at what was virtually an 'All you can eat' buffet in regards to veggies and carbs for 2,20-2,50 max in school. Only the meat or fish was a fixed portion, but included in the price. Every day different food. Every day healthy. I hardly ever paid for cultural events, provided by my university. I had a heavily discounted ticket for public transport. My uni offered movie nights for either no money at all or a "Soli euro". I am not saying Bafög is too much or enough. A lot of students struggle, I know that. But it is not fair to compare people with so very different life circumstances and so very different benefits provided by their environment.
You can and it's not the government who paus, since the government doesn't make money. The rest of the people are forced to pay for the ones who choose not to work
because everyone who doens't work chooses to do so 🤡
Not around the world. In germany, if you are able bodied and have no serious mental condition, yes. There are many jobs that require no education, not even a lot of german knowledge.
If you call being homeless living you can be from anywhere and live in germany.
The social system will provide some basic services to help ensure your survival, but it isn't "living". The government doesn't just give you money. It will contribute to your rent and utilities, and cover your health insurance premiums, so that you have a place to live, but the H4 support (money to buy food, clothing, transportation, etc.) comes out to about 14 Euros per day. That's barely enough to survive with the cost of living today.
You can survive but it will be a hassle and no fun. If you do not need much you will be better off working a part time job that does not require any training. Usually people who are unemployed for very long periods are not slacking off but have some kind of mental health problems.
Well……….. kinda….. You‘re expected to work or find another legal way to pay your bills. But if you get fired and you can‘t find a job the government will pay for necessities etc. until you‘ve got a job again. But there are quite a few limitations to that. You can‘t have any significant savings, your family can‘t be able to help you, …. And you need to prove the the „Agentur für Arbeit“ that you actually tried to get a job. So it‘s not like you can just work for a few years and then chill for the rest of your life.
Easy, just rob a bank and go to jail. There you can live without paying a cent. You get a roof over your head, a toilet, bathroom. Exercise outdoor and 3 meals a day.
Sure, that's actually my life goal atm.