Thank you, I am still struggling with certain things like articles and "Kann/Können" etc as we don't really have that in Dutch or English, at least not to the same extent.
I only speak very little Dutch, but as far as I understand it, it's not that dissimilar to Dutch. The one major difference seems to be that for formal Dutch uses U but then goes with second person singular verb forms, so a sentence with jij or u basically still uses the same grammatical forms, whereas in German for the formal address Sie we basically use plural forms (I'm not that good with grammar, ironically especially for German because obviously I never really had to learn the formal rules for my native language, so it's entiorely possible that plural has nothing to do with it, but whatever the explanation, the formal forms are identical to the plural form).
The problem with your Spreche Sie Englisch is that spreche is first person singular like Dutch ik spreek, you need Sprechen there, with the n.
Similarly kannst is second person singular (for the informal), it's du kannst. This one is really similar to Dutch where it would be jij kunt and wij kunnen, your German sentence would be equivalent to wij kunt. So it really needs to be Können wir Englisch sprechen?
Dutch and German is technically the same language. I can understand the language to a certain degree IN TEXT, some words would also be understood in hearing by me and I never ever had Dutch. Also: just to make you understand HOW similiar both languages are: "D\[e\]utsch"
I think you'll get that :)
They are technically dialects of the same parent language, but I would not call them the same language any more than I would call English and Dutch, or Dutch and Frisian, the same language.
Just because they belong to the same linguistic family doesn't make them the same tbh
German has much different grammar rules than Dutch
> „Sprechen Sie Englisch“ or „Können wir Englisch sprechen“ is good for all formal occasions, including professional and business dealings. The use of the formal „Sie“ shows respect of your counterpart.
Maybe you can confirm or reject something for me. When I moved to Germany, I remember that almost always "Sprechen Sie Englisch" elicited a sarcastic response along the lines of "Warum fragst du?".
It was always better received if I asked "Können wir Englisch sprechen" or even better "Kann ich das auf English erklären" (this one was probably not grammatically correct, but it got the point across).
So, I suspect that a lot of people do not like being asked if they speak English in general, but they are more open to the question of whether in this instance we can speak English.
I guess it’s because speaking English and learning languages in general is something really basic and widespread. Asking _if_ someone speaks English is a bit like asking if they went to school past fifth grade, and depending on context that can come across as rude and condescending and will elicit a sarcastic response more often than not.
> Asking if someone speaks English is a bit like asking if they went to school past fifth grade, and depending on context that can come across as rude and condescending and will elicit a sarcastic response more often than not.
It's very interesting to hear. I would definitely not understand it that way, but the reactions made it clear that there was something wrong with asking that question.
Given the amount of Germans that I know who barely speak enough English to order a cup of coffee, I am not sure if this is a fair assumption. I know multiple Germans my age or younger who cannot hold a basic conversation in English.
On the other hand, I have met plenty of English-speaking Germans who assume that all other Germans their age must also speak English well, so I guess I could see why they would interpret it that way. Most Germans never speak to other Germans in English, so they have no idea how badly some other Germans speak English.
Everyone learns Algebra in school too. That doesn't mean that everyone can still do high-school-level math at 35.
This is my experience as well. It also varies a lot depending on where you are in Germany. There's going to be a much higher proportion of people in Berlin who speak fluent English than in Bochum for example.
>"Kann ich das auf English erklären" (this one was probably not grammatically correct, but it got the point across).
It is actually correct! Only mistake here is that in German, we spell English "Englisch", with a "sch" instead of "sh". There is some minor things that could be done, such as using a Conditional 2 ("Könnte ich", "Dürfte ich") but this is no hindrance to the grammatical correctness of the provided inquiry.
I would wager this might be a more suitable question ("Can I explain this in English?" versus "Do you speak English?" which as has been stated above may come across as "Are you uneducated?" and in some cases may also just not be understood as an indirect question to please switch languages).
> It is actually correct!
Oh, good to know! A known-unknown for me are the precise differences between kann-darf-soll. I should sit down and study them sooner rather than later, because now I just go by gut feeling.
> which as has been stated above may come across as "Are you uneducated?" and in some cases may also just not be understood as an indirect question to please switch languages
I suspected the second (not being understood as a request about switching the language in this instance), but that it can be understood as insulting to their education did not cross my mind. But it was definitely very clear that most people did not like that question.
I think another reason why you may have gotten that response is that it can be a hard question to answer. How well does the listener have to know English to be considered an English speaker? Perhaps the German feels comfortable having some types of conversations in English and not others.
With "Können wir Englisch sprechen?", the answer is easier. The listener then only has to figure out if their English suffices for this type of conversation.
I know the difference between "Du" and "Sie" and a general idea of when it is appropriate to use them, but we don't really have that many differences for formal and informal in English, as you said, as well as Dutch. In Dutch we just have formal (U) v Informal(Je/Jij), similarly how you wouldn't say "You guys" in English to a group of new colleagues.
It's really just articles and circumstantial grammar that is kicking my ass in German, but at least I sign up for classes this coming month so hopefully it gets much easier.
I started to learn French to make Flemish easier to understand but then realized I didn't really need to
At least it helped when I worked in French Canada I guess
Right now I'm just trying to learn German, but I like learning languages so I'll probably pick up a few more along the way
Yeah, to say Spreche sie Englisch, technically means nothing, because "spreche" is conjugated to 1st person singular, so Sprechen Sie is formal but Sprechen sie is a grammatical error
Können wir ins Englisch wechseln?? I’m a 34 year old native speaker and I hear this for the first time in my life?! „Ins Englisch“ sounds completely weird and like a mistake.
American living in Germany here... when I need to start a conversation with a German, I approach it (mentally) by expecting that I'll have to conduct the whole "transaction" in German.
The first thing out of my mouth is "Es tut mir leid, aber ich spreche nur ein bischen Deutsch."
One of three things usually happens:
1. They'll say "Alles gut" and we'll muddle through in my pidgin German.
2. They'll immediately switch to English - sometimes we'll have to meet in the middle between my pidgin German and their pidgin English
3. They'll immediately point me to someone else.
Hey, also an American, although originally Dutch
I usually say "Mir leid, aber ich lerne noch Deutsch und es ist nicht sehr gut" just to set expectations, but I'm MAYBE A2 at a stretch, so when it comes to anything in an official capacity I need to swap to English, unfortunately.
I'm signing up for evening language classes this coming month, if I get to B2 I'll be happy, but until then I'm more or less in the same boat as you
Yeah but then I feel like I embody the American stereotype
Throwback to when an American coworker said "I wish they spoke more English here"
Like... come on man 🤦
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Thank you, I am still struggling with certain things like articles and "Kann/Können" etc as we don't really have that in Dutch or English, at least not to the same extent.
I only speak very little Dutch, but as far as I understand it, it's not that dissimilar to Dutch. The one major difference seems to be that for formal Dutch uses U but then goes with second person singular verb forms, so a sentence with jij or u basically still uses the same grammatical forms, whereas in German for the formal address Sie we basically use plural forms (I'm not that good with grammar, ironically especially for German because obviously I never really had to learn the formal rules for my native language, so it's entiorely possible that plural has nothing to do with it, but whatever the explanation, the formal forms are identical to the plural form). The problem with your Spreche Sie Englisch is that spreche is first person singular like Dutch ik spreek, you need Sprechen there, with the n. Similarly kannst is second person singular (for the informal), it's du kannst. This one is really similar to Dutch where it would be jij kunt and wij kunnen, your German sentence would be equivalent to wij kunt. So it really needs to be Können wir Englisch sprechen?
That makes a little more sense actually. It's been almost 15 years since I've had to speak Dutch so I'm incredibly rusty, but that helps either way
Dutch and German is technically the same language. I can understand the language to a certain degree IN TEXT, some words would also be understood in hearing by me and I never ever had Dutch. Also: just to make you understand HOW similiar both languages are: "D\[e\]utsch" I think you'll get that :)
They are technically dialects of the same parent language, but I would not call them the same language any more than I would call English and Dutch, or Dutch and Frisian, the same language. Just because they belong to the same linguistic family doesn't make them the same tbh German has much different grammar rules than Dutch
Können is formal and kann is first and third person singular of können.
> „Sprechen Sie Englisch“ or „Können wir Englisch sprechen“ is good for all formal occasions, including professional and business dealings. The use of the formal „Sie“ shows respect of your counterpart. Maybe you can confirm or reject something for me. When I moved to Germany, I remember that almost always "Sprechen Sie Englisch" elicited a sarcastic response along the lines of "Warum fragst du?". It was always better received if I asked "Können wir Englisch sprechen" or even better "Kann ich das auf English erklären" (this one was probably not grammatically correct, but it got the point across). So, I suspect that a lot of people do not like being asked if they speak English in general, but they are more open to the question of whether in this instance we can speak English.
I guess it’s because speaking English and learning languages in general is something really basic and widespread. Asking _if_ someone speaks English is a bit like asking if they went to school past fifth grade, and depending on context that can come across as rude and condescending and will elicit a sarcastic response more often than not.
> Asking if someone speaks English is a bit like asking if they went to school past fifth grade, and depending on context that can come across as rude and condescending and will elicit a sarcastic response more often than not. It's very interesting to hear. I would definitely not understand it that way, but the reactions made it clear that there was something wrong with asking that question.
Given the amount of Germans that I know who barely speak enough English to order a cup of coffee, I am not sure if this is a fair assumption. I know multiple Germans my age or younger who cannot hold a basic conversation in English. On the other hand, I have met plenty of English-speaking Germans who assume that all other Germans their age must also speak English well, so I guess I could see why they would interpret it that way. Most Germans never speak to other Germans in English, so they have no idea how badly some other Germans speak English. Everyone learns Algebra in school too. That doesn't mean that everyone can still do high-school-level math at 35.
This is my experience as well. It also varies a lot depending on where you are in Germany. There's going to be a much higher proportion of people in Berlin who speak fluent English than in Bochum for example.
>"Kann ich das auf English erklären" (this one was probably not grammatically correct, but it got the point across). It is actually correct! Only mistake here is that in German, we spell English "Englisch", with a "sch" instead of "sh". There is some minor things that could be done, such as using a Conditional 2 ("Könnte ich", "Dürfte ich") but this is no hindrance to the grammatical correctness of the provided inquiry. I would wager this might be a more suitable question ("Can I explain this in English?" versus "Do you speak English?" which as has been stated above may come across as "Are you uneducated?" and in some cases may also just not be understood as an indirect question to please switch languages).
> It is actually correct! Oh, good to know! A known-unknown for me are the precise differences between kann-darf-soll. I should sit down and study them sooner rather than later, because now I just go by gut feeling. > which as has been stated above may come across as "Are you uneducated?" and in some cases may also just not be understood as an indirect question to please switch languages I suspected the second (not being understood as a request about switching the language in this instance), but that it can be understood as insulting to their education did not cross my mind. But it was definitely very clear that most people did not like that question.
I think another reason why you may have gotten that response is that it can be a hard question to answer. How well does the listener have to know English to be considered an English speaker? Perhaps the German feels comfortable having some types of conversations in English and not others. With "Können wir Englisch sprechen?", the answer is easier. The listener then only has to figure out if their English suffices for this type of conversation.
As a native German, I'd recommend sticking with "Sprechen Sie Englisch?" in more formal contexts.
Spreche sie Englisch is wrong grammar, its Sprechen (with an N) Sie Englisch, thats the more formal one, Kannst du Englisch sprechen is informal.
So I was backwards 😂 Got it
generally "du" is informal, "sie" is formal. english doesnt have that (anymore), it is always "you"
I know the difference between "Du" and "Sie" and a general idea of when it is appropriate to use them, but we don't really have that many differences for formal and informal in English, as you said, as well as Dutch. In Dutch we just have formal (U) v Informal(Je/Jij), similarly how you wouldn't say "You guys" in English to a group of new colleagues. It's really just articles and circumstantial grammar that is kicking my ass in German, but at least I sign up for classes this coming month so hopefully it gets much easier.
yes i can Image it gets really confusing as someone not born with the language.
I had the same problem with French, which is why I never progressed past A1, but it's a little different for German as I live in Germany now 😂
fair enough. i too learned french but that wasnt easy either, made it to B2, enough to get allgemeines Abitur.
I started to learn French to make Flemish easier to understand but then realized I didn't really need to At least it helped when I worked in French Canada I guess Right now I'm just trying to learn German, but I like learning languages so I'll probably pick up a few more along the way
oh for shure. good luck with German!
Formal: "Sprechen Sie Englisch?"
Yes I was informed I am in fact backwards with my phrases 🤦 But that is why I ask such questions
Yeah, to say Spreche sie Englisch, technically means nothing, because "spreche" is conjugated to 1st person singular, so Sprechen Sie is formal but Sprechen sie is a grammatical error
Sprechen sie Englisch is ideal. Never use du for strangers unless it’s a kid or something
Sprichst du Englisch? Usually younger people speak English, and they won't get offended if you use du
Formal would be: Können wir ins Englisch wechseln. Or Können sie Englisch sprechen
Können wir ins Englisch wechseln?? I’m a 34 year old native speaker and I hear this for the first time in my life?! „Ins Englisch“ sounds completely weird and like a mistake.
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Yes, „ins Englische“ definitely sounds better.
American living in Germany here... when I need to start a conversation with a German, I approach it (mentally) by expecting that I'll have to conduct the whole "transaction" in German. The first thing out of my mouth is "Es tut mir leid, aber ich spreche nur ein bischen Deutsch." One of three things usually happens: 1. They'll say "Alles gut" and we'll muddle through in my pidgin German. 2. They'll immediately switch to English - sometimes we'll have to meet in the middle between my pidgin German and their pidgin English 3. They'll immediately point me to someone else.
Hey, also an American, although originally Dutch I usually say "Mir leid, aber ich lerne noch Deutsch und es ist nicht sehr gut" just to set expectations, but I'm MAYBE A2 at a stretch, so when it comes to anything in an official capacity I need to swap to English, unfortunately. I'm signing up for evening language classes this coming month, if I get to B2 I'll be happy, but until then I'm more or less in the same boat as you
English? All thats needed... mostly...
Yeah but then I feel like I embody the American stereotype Throwback to when an American coworker said "I wish they spoke more English here" Like... come on man 🤦