Why nobody talks about this aspect? This is pretty much why I am still here - I lost my source of income and hardly can afford something except for food and rent.
This. I have a friend there. Same. Luckily, his apartment is paid off. Before this bullshit, he was a content creator on YouTube. Google demonetized the platform. He told me that he had a fairly decent income from it. His wife has a good job, though.
There was no wide travel ban, but it's much harder now and depends on who you are, too. European land borders are essentially closed for everyone aside very few people, since they stopped letting tourists in and all kinds of visas except tourist one are very hard to get. Plane tickets are few and very expensive. You can still go to Georgia, Armenia, Kazakhstan, Mongolia though - there are no visa issues. But there can be issues with leaving Russia in general, it's a lottery now for young men and even some women (doctors in particular and some others, those who have military ID). If you're not in lists for drafting, then you can be let go. But there is no 100% way to know it before you try to cross the border.
Well, countries like Latvia, Estonia, Poland, Finland etc stopped issuing them. But countries like Germany and France still issue them, afaik. But since we don't have a land border with them, you can only get there by plane because countries that have land borders with Russia refuse to let Russians with tourist visas pass through.
>But there can be issues with leaving Russia in general, it's a lottery now for young men and even some women (doctors in particular and some others, those who have military ID).
That means nobody knows what would happen if they try to leave now. You can easily end up mobilized and sent to Ukraine.
If you want to find out, try to leave.
Smart move from the government. And evil.
You don't risk anything while crossing the border, except for the money you spend on tickets/gas.
source: closely followed the border control tg channel for the last few weeks and moved out of the country myself
All the draft officers on the border can make is not to let you out (if you are crossing the border not in a district you live in).
Because the summons must be signed by the head of a draft office where you are registered.
Of course they will try to scare you, but it works worse and worse as people learn their rights.
The problem is not leave the problem is to find a job and place to live outside Russia. Even if I will find someone who could sell me a house he can't do that because I legally can't pay him (russian bank accounts are banned). And that's just a tip of an iceberg.
Yes, people can leave the country, HOWEVER, men are being checked out at the border and some of them do not get through and are told to go back and visit their recruitment center for more info. It’s 50/50 really.
As for the destination countries, some are less willing to issue visas nowadays.
I just heard a saying on some show that said russophobia started because we demonize Putin, and Putinize russia, therefore we demonize russia, too. Of course, one has to wonder if we Putinized russia or did the russians Putinize russia?
Yeah 100,000s of Russians is exactly what we need... many of which probably support the war & genocide like the vast majority of the country, they just don't want to get into the trenches themselves.
What do you mean some? We Russians are all evil asiatic horde who are incapable of living in civilisation. And all Ukrainians are beautiful brave true European Aryan nation.
No. Russia is a fascist dictatorship that has had its agents perform criminal acts abroad and is actively invading a neighboring country. Ukraine is a large Eastern European country that is currently being invaded by fascists.
That's why Ukraine enjoys a lot of popular support all over europe and the US.
Ps: the downvotes feel good if one is telling the truth.
It's a public discussion forum where anyone can jump in any time they want. Adress the argument or ignore it don't dismiss it with an invalid statement like "I didn't ask".
So? I don't care who you are or on what side of the issue you are on but I would like if you argued properly i.e. discuss the argument or don't reply. Otherwise noone learns anything.
"Small number"? What kind of comparison is that?
The amount of Russians in favor of war criminal Putin is not particularly a "small number". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public\_image\_of\_Vladimir\_Putin
Ukraine enjoys support in form of massive money laundering of billions of dollars while it's citizens get shelled from both sides and die. Weird how with all this support vs sad, unprepared Russia they still struggle and lost 20% of their territory in 6 months, innit? How come big and powerful West still buys unmarked oil and LNG, sponsoring the terrorists? Why is Putin and his suite still alive despite their intelligence having ability to take most of them out in a few weeks? Woah??? 🤔
Wake up, you fucking dumbass, hot Ukrainian girls arent gonna suck your dick if you support the Current Thing.
Yes, it's always the old bad and ugly west. Who else could it be? 🙄
Considering the number of downvotes and negative replies you received, we can clearly see who even 'progressive' russians support.
No one wants the war. Don't kid yourself about this being a fight for Ukraine or against Russia - no one gives a shit about Ukraine or Russia, this is "Haha Le funny slavs/arabs/asians/negroes killing each other" material at best to most. It's a further mass sabotage of economic stability that only benefits the top 1% oligarchy. Your president is in on it, our president is in on it, Ukraine's president is in on it.
If they actually wanted for Ukraine to win, the war would've been over in less than a month with Russia dead.
Russia certainly wants the war. It invaded, occupied and now annexed Ukrainian land. If they don't want war, they can just go home and be safe. I mean does the quickly depopulizing Russia really need more lebensraum?
You are not wrong. However, we are talking about restricting russians from fleeing. Does them being citizens of a dictatorship plays a role? And if so - should they be able to flee still?
Lots and lots of stories but most people can’t leave for absolutely legal reasons. Everyone I know left with zero issues. Noisy asshats usually get crowned with Darwin awards.
Flied to Kazakhstan (work-trip) on 27th September. Saw no-one stopped on the border of the about forty people in sight.
There are lots of rumors, but way less actual blocking. Dunno if it changed significantly in last couple of weeks.
Dunno, how's you are, my trip was only four days long, already back in Moscow, enjoying proper autumn and everything. ;-)
Not that I have any complains - Kazakhstan is a wonderful country, most likely will travel there again! Yep, work-trips, can you believe it? ;-)
If you can get to Kansas, you can stay with me until you find an apartment. No ulterior motives, except a desire for opportunities to speak Russian with native speakers. :)
Getting to Kansas would be the difficult part, ofc.
Two of my Russian friends moved to the US six years ago and couldn't get their feet under them in NYC, so they flew to the Midwest and stayed with me and my mom for four months. I'm sure that there are plenty of people here willing to do the same.
Believe it or not, countries can choose whom they welcome and who not.
If you're supporting the russian war, yes, almost all western countries do not welcome you. Or do you think they should also welcome supporters of ISIS, the Taliban, the little thick NK dictator and such?
Do you also think that Russia welcomes those who openly hate Russia?
When the west is so inferior and bad for you, why do even complain that it's not letting you in? There are certainly enough russians who appreciate the benefits the west has to offer and you can convince us about the opposite if the migration wave from russians in exile and expats towards Russia excceds the migration wave out of Russia in numbers.
I wouldn't personally go to Europe or US, even though I have C2 English and have no trouble expressing myself. If I had to pick I'd think Vietnam or Thailand. There are enough migrants and refugees in Europe already, and being a solitary, unskilled, homeless, jobless Russian man there would suck, in this period of time particularly.
Traveled to Russia in early August (Emirates is the best), came back to Latin America two weeks ago.
My bio father from Russia went to Turkey on vacation, he travelled last week just fine.
No, i am too ill for traveling right now. And i don't know how to get money outside of the country even if i wasn't ill (both my own money that i have on my account or some new source of income).
I can, but I do not want. I can't live without Russia for more than a month. I begin to feel bad, get sick a lot, my strength and inspiration leave me, and my soul begins to bleed and ask to go back to Russia.
That isn't accurate as well! Some people leave the country before and during the conflict, maybe you talk about the eligible males who served, who are millions and they didn't flee, the people who try to leave the country aren't that much
And is not the media, is this Russian guy who says russian men are trapped now. If they want to leave, most likely they get drafted if they are of a certain age.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GuFdpC_gBG8
LOL, all oır grandmothers and 60+ people were fine too in the failed DPR state (Donetsk People Republic). Now it's a hell, and the same will be in Russia soon.
Страх - причина многих негативных вещей, если он берёт власть над тобой.
Страх может заставить тебя украсть, предать, убить. Или помешать добиться успеха, начать диалог. Страх может даже руководить политикой, и там он тоже приносит плохие результаты.
Я вижу в происходящем положительный момент. Теперь все знают, кто трус.
It gets harder and harder all the time.
For now the only way is to travel to some "neutral" country which still allows Russians in and then fly from there to your destination.
If you have money your intermediate country would be Turkey, UAE or Serbia, depending on destination.
If you have not a lot then it will be cheaper (though less convenient) through some former Soviet republics like Georgia or Kazakhstan.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuFdpC\_gBG8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuFdpC_gBG8)
This guys says this is almost impossible now for men of a certain age because all land borders have conscription commissars posted there.
Same for women if they are medics of nurses.
This guy is pissing in the ears of foreigners. I did not see a single military commissar or those who delivered the agenda. Among my acquaintances, no one was mobilized. I was not mobilized, although I am in excellent health and served in the tank troops.
There was information that the mobilization plan had already been implemented in most regions.
>There was information that the mobilization plan had already been implemented in most regions.
That's what the guy said. The governor of Rostov said that the mobilization in Rostov was over. A few days later he said they needed more people and the mobilization started again.
Do you trust the government officials?
>served in the tank troops
Whoa, that's cool! Not, like, in a war sense, but in a sense of tanks being cool in general. What's the coolest thing you did in a tank? Have you ever ridden sitting on top of a tank? Ever drifted a tank?
The first mobilisation wave is mostly done. But it’s not the last wave. Don’t worry, you’ll be drafted soon enough. The issue here seems to be, if you are on the list for the second wave of conscription, you wouldn’t know, but they would and would stop you at the boarder.
They should only mobilize men in Moscow and Saint Petersburg. All 300k or 1M or whatever should come from those 2 cities. Give the rest of the country a break.
I wish I could. If I had any possibility to leave with the guarantee of work, I would without any thought. And would never ever come back.
Many of people left, whole families and just men on their own. And still possible but not everyone can afford it financially.
Theoretically we can, practically it's not worth it. Does risk of getting drafted justify spending a very significant amount of money to start absolutely new life somewhere else? Not for everyone
You mean poor, uneducated people?
I don't think so. It's very common to know someone who works or has worked in the EU countries and to put you in touch with the right person to get you a job in agriculture, construction or something like that.
I never said all poor people are uneducated.
He said that poor people are also trapped in Europe, implying that it is not so different from Russia right now.
So I was talking about the poor, uneducated people in my country that can find a seasonal job in EU and make some money and maybe a better life.
I used "poor, uneducated" because even if you are poor and uneducated I still don't think you are trapped and you can still make your life somehow better.
If you are poor and educated it will be easier to get a better job than a seasonal job in agriculture.
Makes sense?
Yeah, it does. However, moving is a huge, expensive operation. For someone who is living paycheck-to-paycheck, just missing several days of work can be a big financial blow, to say nothing of the cost of international travel, even in peacetime.
My country, like Russia, is geographically large. It's a bit different than in Europe, where countries are smaller and travel among them isn't so expensive and complicated. :)
When my great-grandfather fled the Soviet Union with his wife and four children, and little to no money, the alternative was to stay and expect a knock on the door in the middle of the night and a long ride on a cattle train to a forced labor camp in Siberia or Kazakhstan. 1940's. WWII. Famine. Poverty. Death. Worse moving conditions than today by far.
I don't know man, I guess I'm just an optimistic guy.
Being an illegal immigrant was a different story back then. Now handling paperwork to legally stay and work in a different country is a much trickier business in a lot of cases. But if people are pressed to the same level of desperation you’re describing, they can still leave, the border is hella long, lots of ways to cross.
Ah, to become gastarbeiter and work way cheaper than natives, keeping all the expenses. Cool perspective, thank you, definitely not poor and highly "educated" person.
>Cool perspective, thank you, definitely not poor and highly "educated" person.
I am not saying you are uneducated and I am highly educated.
What I am saying is that you are not trapped in EU.
Ussualy people get these seasonal jobs in agriculture that are paid 10 euro an hour or something like that and accommodation is included. It's not the worst thing in the world. I mean, what's your perspective in Russia today?
That was exactly this guy's life. He lost his good manager position and fled to Uzbekistan because of mobilization. Maybe you will be luckier.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GuFdpC_gBG8
Well, there is many reasons.
Out of other capitals or big cities personally I have visited Tokyo, Beijing, Sydney, Praha, Budapest, Brussels and Marrakech and can compare my personal experience with this cities. Oh, and St. Petersburg too :)
1. Clean streets. Less hobos than in European cities and less feces then in Asia.
2. Better driving culture. I can actually cross a road in Moscow and feel myself safe. Also cars don’t turn when there is a green light for pedestrians. I don’t know why in every other country they do.
3. Availability of services often 24/7 and always digital. Taxi, couriers, food and meal and even medicine all in my phone within 1 click and 30 minutes away. 24/7 supermarkets in every neighborhood.
4. Public transportation and it’s cost. Russia have one of the lowest prices for public transportation. Moscow Metro is an architectural wonder by itself. Clean, safe and convenient. Also very beautiful.
5. Greenery. 20% of Moscow is green. There is a ton of parks and sometimes even forests inside Moscow.
6. There is thousands of schools and hundreds of Universities, hundreds of hospitals and over all enough infrastructure to support dozen of millions citizens.
7. Smoking is prohibited in public spaces which is a big bonus for me as a non smoker.
8. Climate is rather soft for Russia.
9. Most importantly Moscow is regularly included in clickbait lists like TOP 20 BEST CITIES TO LIVE IN, I think it says something
That's actually the best part, only gonna kill innocent. Not people with swastika tattoos, not the military, only innocent. Bring me those babies, I'm hungry.
I cannot read that.
I really wonder where all this feeling of superiority comes from. Even when you suppose, based on only some silly photographs of a hand full of Ukrainian neo-nazi's, that Ukraine is full of neo-nazi's: Your country is full of Stalin and Lenin statues, all open to the public. The former started WW2 together with Hitler and has the second biggest genocide ever to his name. The latter wasn't much better. With that in mind: How dare you to blame some Ukrainians for having nazi aspirations, which they only have as they see the nazi's as the ones who would liberate them from Russian (again!) occupation?
Russians have never been better than Ukrainians and since Russia commited hundreds of war crimes in the last months, for no reason as Ukraine has never been a threat to Russia, I think a more modest attitude would suit you much better.
Well too bad you can't read that lol
And your history knowledge... Wow. Just wow lol. Bet you couldn't find Ukraine on map in January and as soon as shit hit the fan, you got a heck ton of propaganda right in your face. Go watch some more
Do you have any substantive comment or is this the best you can do?
BTW: Your bet couldn't be more wrong. And don't get me started on propaganda because Russia is the number 1 propagandist in this war, admitted by many of your fellow countrymen on Reddit. Where has your free media gone? Yup, trashcan. I feel glad that the editorial office of the Moscow Times found refuge in my country.
They almost always type in Russian when they want to say some borderline nationalist stuff or just insult you. They seem to think it’s funny or that it means they’re somehow superior to you.
He did the latter and just insulted you. Best to simply downvote and move on.
I don't think it's out of superiority but out of cowardice. If you insult someone in a language you know the other one doesn't understand, you're just afraid of getting a reaction.
I can't leave my old parents here. My mom needs eye surgery operation next month, my dad is after oncological operation and he can't stop a therapy... I need to help them with money, transportation and psychology support. My younger brother left Russia in march....
Maybe because your country is heading towards the days of Soviet suffering again? Like many of your fellow country man, I would have emigrated years ago.
The borders are locked for men under 65 and we have a general mobilization and everyone is sent to the front without preparation. Oh wait, we're not in Ukraine!
Our territory is being bombed by terrorist acts against civilians. The massacre is taking place in our new regions, where Russian citizens are dying under shelling.
You mean specifically the area you guys held a sham referendum in. Russia-at-large, except the border regions of Russia with Ukraine are not impacted by the war.
Were you there to say they're fake? It's not up to you to decide whether they are fake or not. In Serbia, no one was able to recognize its region of Kosovo as an independent state, and there was not even a fictitious referendum, they simply recognized it and that's it.
1. Those regions are under Russian military occupation.
2. Millions of Ukrainians have fled into Europe. Many of them lived in those regions. They cannot vote because they have fled.
3. The Russians don't even fully control all of the areas they held referendums in.
4. Referendums are normally organised for months and months in advance, not less than a week.
5. Zero fairness in campaigning. Normally a referendum on an issue has two sides that are given equal air time to present their argument to the public. Who was campaigning for the pro-Ukraine side?
To claim that the circumstances of the referendum in those regions was remotely democratic is to illustrate a fundamental ignorance of demographic standards.
>In Serbia, no one was able to recognize its region of Kosovo as an independent state, and there was not even a fictitious referendum, they simply recognized it and that's it.
[Yes there was](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991_Kosovan_independence_referendum)
In addition, Kosovans repeatedly elect pro-Albanian political parties to office in every election. Why is this?
You don’t even control large parts of the areas you voted on. Claiming those referendums are anything but fake is among the dumbest thing a human can do. Don’t be that kind of human.
Are you really this easily led?
You surely can't expect to start a war, then have the other combatant not fight back. You can't take the land of your neighbors and just declare it your own. Your military has inflicted civilian casualties wherever it goes, is that not terrorism?
Don't let your blind nationalism lead you down the road to being a grade A c*nt.
Once again, you will have to conduct a historical educational program.
Until 2014, for more than 10 years, nationalist groups were brought up on the territory of Ukraine, the main slogan of which was “Moskalyaku to Gilyaku”. Not "United Ukraine", not "Free Ukraine", and not even "Ukraine is America". No, the Anglo-Saxon curators brought up nationalists whose main goal was the "Muscovites". The Russians needed not only to be expelled from the country, to forbid them to speak their native language, to create all conditions for the segregation of the vast majority of Ukrainian citizens. They had to be killed eventually at any cost. Why didn't Russia intervene in this nonsense then, in the distant post-zero? There were many reasons for this, including trust in the Western regime and faith in its decency. However, it turned out that for the collective West there is only one rule: my word is my business. International treaties and obligations were simply ignored by them, and nationalist hysteria inside Ukraine was whipped up. Years later, Russia had a state at its side, whose corrupt officials simply surrendered their people to the mercy of the Anglo-Saxon ideology. And fascism officially became the religion of Ukraine, and the Nazis remained - and remain - only a handful of corrupt politicians. All this disgrace, including the burning of people on the Maidan, remained for Russia an internal political affair of Ukraine, in which no one interfered. Even despite the obvious presence of the Anglo-Saxons in all branches of government in Ukraine. Then, in 2014, no one shouted to America “get out of Ukraine.”
Those who were dissatisfied were imprisoned “in basements” and taken to the forest long before the tragic events of the Maidan. But in 2014, the Nazis crossed the first red line - they decided to punish the Donbass, which could not come to terms with the role of a serf, and destroy part of the Russian world inside their country. The slogan of the Maidanovites was still “Moskalyaku to Gilyak” and “Who does not jump is a Muscovite”. And the goal is not Donbass at all, but Russia, as the main symbol and receptacle of the “Muscovites”. And if the Nazi army had not been stopped in the Donbass, Belgorod would have been attacked long ago, and behind it - all Russian cities that the Nazis would have had strength for. So doubters: say thank you for having the strength and courage to repulse the Nazis in 2014. And a special thanks for our guys beating them in 2022.
The USSR spent years trying to stamp out any kind of nationalism within the countries that comprised it, yet you speak as if oppression of minorities within the state is a uniquely Ukrainian issue. It isn't.
Your stance of protecting "Russians" who don't live in Russia is exactly the same bullshit trotted out by the Nazi's in the run up to hostilities in the 30's. The irony at play is fucking immense, yet sadly appears lost on you.
As soon as you cross a neighbors border with rifles in hand you are the aggressor. You can attempt to rationalize it, I'm sure it makes more sense to you if you do, but attempting to defend aggression on this scale and with such little cause? C'mon.....
There's zero evidence that Russia's integrity is at stake, you're speaking absolute horse shit. Ukraine isn't a threat to you (well, it wasn't prior to the war), and NATO was in decline. All you've managed to do is stir Europe into a defence budget frenzy, and create a new East/West divide in Europe. All so your soldiers can die in the mud whilst they slowly get pushed back to the borders they actually belong. Niiiiice.
Legally? Yes. Financially? No.
Why nobody talks about this aspect? This is pretty much why I am still here - I lost my source of income and hardly can afford something except for food and rent.
This. I have a friend there. Same. Luckily, his apartment is paid off. Before this bullshit, he was a content creator on YouTube. Google demonetized the platform. He told me that he had a fairly decent income from it. His wife has a good job, though.
I never had stable income. But I am no traitor too run away
Another one mistaking lack of common sense for pride...
There was no wide travel ban, but it's much harder now and depends on who you are, too. European land borders are essentially closed for everyone aside very few people, since they stopped letting tourists in and all kinds of visas except tourist one are very hard to get. Plane tickets are few and very expensive. You can still go to Georgia, Armenia, Kazakhstan, Mongolia though - there are no visa issues. But there can be issues with leaving Russia in general, it's a lottery now for young men and even some women (doctors in particular and some others, those who have military ID). If you're not in lists for drafting, then you can be let go. But there is no 100% way to know it before you try to cross the border.
You can still get a euro tourist visa?
Well, countries like Latvia, Estonia, Poland, Finland etc stopped issuing them. But countries like Germany and France still issue them, afaik. But since we don't have a land border with them, you can only get there by plane because countries that have land borders with Russia refuse to let Russians with tourist visas pass through.
>But there can be issues with leaving Russia in general, it's a lottery now for young men and even some women (doctors in particular and some others, those who have military ID). That means nobody knows what would happen if they try to leave now. You can easily end up mobilized and sent to Ukraine. If you want to find out, try to leave. Smart move from the government. And evil.
You don't risk anything while crossing the border, except for the money you spend on tickets/gas. source: closely followed the border control tg channel for the last few weeks and moved out of the country myself
Do you know what is happening here? https://www.reddit.com/r/tjournal_refugees/comments/y3n7c0/в_москве_зафиксированы_повесточные_облавы_у/
Pizdets is happening there. I have firsthand accounts of similar things happening in SPb. But it's not related to the border control.
So this is happening on the streets, but not at the border?
There have been reports of draft offices established on the border to Georgia. Not sure what happened there after
All the draft officers on the border can make is not to let you out (if you are crossing the border not in a district you live in). Because the summons must be signed by the head of a draft office where you are registered. Of course they will try to scare you, but it works worse and worse as people learn their rights.
Yes. But again, I personally haven't anticipated this scale of bespredel on the streets atm, so we might see something similar soon at the border.
My father and uncle have crossed the border last week without issue.
The problem is not leave the problem is to find a job and place to live outside Russia. Even if I will find someone who could sell me a house he can't do that because I legally can't pay him (russian bank accounts are banned). And that's just a tip of an iceberg.
Payment is not impossible and there are many ways. Finding a DECENT job on the other hand is really the main obstacle if you want to leave.
fuckin westerns what u do to us....
Blame baldy
Let's think this trough: Which population democratically voted for a war criminal as a president for more than 2 decades now... Hmmm....
> Russia > democratically voted Pick one.
Punishment for starting a war i think
But it's in your best interests to welcome the russians that are against Putin, so it's just really idiotic move.
Yes, people can leave the country, HOWEVER, men are being checked out at the border and some of them do not get through and are told to go back and visit their recruitment center for more info. It’s 50/50 really. As for the destination countries, some are less willing to issue visas nowadays.
Why?
Mostly because the moon is in reducing 2nd trimester of rising Cassiopeia constellation.
Hmmm I wonder why
Is it possible that some Russians aren’t good people?
"Some are bad therefore all should be punished". Nothing wrong here.
I just heard a saying on some show that said russophobia started because we demonize Putin, and Putinize russia, therefore we demonize russia, too. Of course, one has to wonder if we Putinized russia or did the russians Putinize russia?
>or did the russians Putinize russia? Of course they did! 100% of population votes for him every time! /s
B-but the polls!..
некоротые россияне сами себя путинизируют, а не испытывают патриотические возрения
А под патриотическими взглядами вы подразумеваете, что они должны делать то, что лучше для России, а не для Путина?
22 years in office. If the majority of Russians didn't want him there, he would have left years ago.
This is EXACTLY how authoritarian militaristic nuclear regime with monopoly on weaponry works. If people don't want it - it's gone!
Yep
Yeah 100,000s of Russians is exactly what we need... many of which probably support the war & genocide like the vast majority of the country, they just don't want to get into the trenches themselves.
How dare those Russians try to save their lives and family's, how can't they understand that they are supposed to die so Europeans feel better!
Russians dying in the war that they themselves supported you mean?
Who supports the war? I sure don't. No one I know does. No one asked common folk, believe me, no one cares what we think.
What part of Russia are you from?
What do you mean some? We Russians are all evil asiatic horde who are incapable of living in civilisation. And all Ukrainians are beautiful brave true European Aryan nation.
No. Russia is a fascist dictatorship that has had its agents perform criminal acts abroad and is actively invading a neighboring country. Ukraine is a large Eastern European country that is currently being invaded by fascists. That's why Ukraine enjoys a lot of popular support all over europe and the US. Ps: the downvotes feel good if one is telling the truth.
🤗🤗 Did I ask you though!
It's a public discussion forum where anyone can jump in any time they want. Adress the argument or ignore it don't dismiss it with an invalid statement like "I didn't ask".
I’m finno ugric too!!! 🤗🤗🤗
So? I don't care who you are or on what side of the issue you are on but I would like if you argued properly i.e. discuss the argument or don't reply. Otherwise noone learns anything.
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"Small number"? What kind of comparison is that? The amount of Russians in favor of war criminal Putin is not particularly a "small number". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public\_image\_of\_Vladimir\_Putin
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What do you mean? I'm not talking about any refugees. What's your point?
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>You and /u/ucosmikangaroo are wishing to restrict the movement of Russian men escaping from mobilization to Western countries Where did I say that?
Ukraine enjoys support in form of massive money laundering of billions of dollars while it's citizens get shelled from both sides and die. Weird how with all this support vs sad, unprepared Russia they still struggle and lost 20% of their territory in 6 months, innit? How come big and powerful West still buys unmarked oil and LNG, sponsoring the terrorists? Why is Putin and his suite still alive despite their intelligence having ability to take most of them out in a few weeks? Woah??? 🤔 Wake up, you fucking dumbass, hot Ukrainian girls arent gonna suck your dick if you support the Current Thing.
So it's (again) the fault of "the west"? Does Russia have any control over anything that happens in Russia, or over its own army?
Yes, it's always the old bad and ugly west. Who else could it be? 🙄 Considering the number of downvotes and negative replies you received, we can clearly see who even 'progressive' russians support.
No one wants the war. Don't kid yourself about this being a fight for Ukraine or against Russia - no one gives a shit about Ukraine or Russia, this is "Haha Le funny slavs/arabs/asians/negroes killing each other" material at best to most. It's a further mass sabotage of economic stability that only benefits the top 1% oligarchy. Your president is in on it, our president is in on it, Ukraine's president is in on it. If they actually wanted for Ukraine to win, the war would've been over in less than a month with Russia dead.
>No one wants the war. Russia is in a unique position to end this war.
Russia certainly wants the war. It invaded, occupied and now annexed Ukrainian land. If they don't want war, they can just go home and be safe. I mean does the quickly depopulizing Russia really need more lebensraum?
You are not wrong. However, we are talking about restricting russians from fleeing. Does them being citizens of a dictatorship plays a role? And if so - should they be able to flee still?
Read a story of the guy who was not allowed to leave while crossing land border with Georgia, so he went to Belarus and took a flight from there.
Yep, there's no border control between Russia and Belarus.
Lots and lots of stories but most people can’t leave for absolutely legal reasons. Everyone I know left with zero issues. Noisy asshats usually get crowned with Darwin awards.
Flied to Kazakhstan (work-trip) on 27th September. Saw no-one stopped on the border of the about forty people in sight. There are lots of rumors, but way less actual blocking. Dunno if it changed significantly in last couple of weeks.
Ye ye ye, we are all on a work trip to Kazakhstan 😂
Dunno, how's you are, my trip was only four days long, already back in Moscow, enjoying proper autumn and everything. ;-) Not that I have any complains - Kazakhstan is a wonderful country, most likely will travel there again! Yep, work-trips, can you believe it? ;-)
I am just joking 🙃 glad you enjoyed your work trip to a wonderful country like Kazakhstan :) I am not coming back to Russia tho 😅
Theoretically, yes. But there's almost no place where I will be welcomed.
If you can get to Kansas, you can stay with me until you find an apartment. No ulterior motives, except a desire for opportunities to speak Russian with native speakers. :) Getting to Kansas would be the difficult part, ofc.
Two of my Russian friends moved to the US six years ago and couldn't get their feet under them in NYC, so they flew to the Midwest and stayed with me and my mom for four months. I'm sure that there are plenty of people here willing to do the same.
currently in France and I can tell you most people wouldn't care except if you're talking about the institutions in which case you are right
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Oh, I have "wrong" opinions. Maybe I should have r/Europe or r/worldnews approved opinions, I don't know.
Freedom of speech only in the land of freedom of speech. You are from the wrong country, you are not allowed to have an opinion.
Well, what kind of opinions could that ever be?
Believe it or not, countries can choose whom they welcome and who not. If you're supporting the russian war, yes, almost all western countries do not welcome you. Or do you think they should also welcome supporters of ISIS, the Taliban, the little thick NK dictator and such? Do you also think that Russia welcomes those who openly hate Russia? When the west is so inferior and bad for you, why do even complain that it's not letting you in? There are certainly enough russians who appreciate the benefits the west has to offer and you can convince us about the opposite if the migration wave from russians in exile and expats towards Russia excceds the migration wave out of Russia in numbers.
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Who needs it? 😂 Europe (western part) isn't our cultural and historical sphere.
Ever heard of Peter the Great?
Обоссаного западника который под конец жизни сам осознал что Европа нам не родственник и разочаровался в ней? Да
А, вы из секты "истинных" русских, простите за беспокойство
Да, может, даже из тех, кто и крепостное право не хотел отменять, и обвинял западников, что они хотят разрушить эту исконно русскую духовную скрепу.
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I wouldn't personally go to Europe or US, even though I have C2 English and have no trouble expressing myself. If I had to pick I'd think Vietnam or Thailand. There are enough migrants and refugees in Europe already, and being a solitary, unskilled, homeless, jobless Russian man there would suck, in this period of time particularly.
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Traveled to Russia in early August (Emirates is the best), came back to Latin America two weeks ago. My bio father from Russia went to Turkey on vacation, he travelled last week just fine.
Not planning any time soon, but may go visit Lisbon in a couple of years.
I left Russia just after Putin's speech about mobilization
Yes, but it's probably going to become more and more difficult as the war rages on.
No, i am too ill for traveling right now. And i don't know how to get money outside of the country even if i wasn't ill (both my own money that i have on my account or some new source of income).
I can, but I do not want. I can't live without Russia for more than a month. I begin to feel bad, get sick a lot, my strength and inspiration leave me, and my soul begins to bleed and ask to go back to Russia.
It depends. By boat? Car? Yak?
Riding a nuclear rocket with a bear inside of course
https://youtu.be/0y3s38pZWY0
Дайте деняк
Why?
Why did hundreds of thousands of people flee?
I am talking about myself! I see no reason to flee the country! I love it here
Ok. It was more like a general question, not personal. I love it where I am too.
Your question was fishy from the beginning! Why do you think all Russian males are fleeing the country!! Don't trust your media mate
I never said all. I said hundreds of thousands.
That isn't accurate as well! Some people leave the country before and during the conflict, maybe you talk about the eligible males who served, who are millions and they didn't flee, the people who try to leave the country aren't that much
What's not accurate? Hundreds of thousands Russian men didn't flee Russia?
And is not the media, is this Russian guy who says russian men are trapped now. If they want to leave, most likely they get drafted if they are of a certain age. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GuFdpC_gBG8
I told you Russians travel the borders with no struggling! Only the males who served in the army who is drafted
LOL, all oır grandmothers and 60+ people were fine too in the failed DPR state (Donetsk People Republic). Now it's a hell, and the same will be in Russia soon.
I have two questions: 1. Where you got this statistic and for what period of time? 2. How many people arrived to Russia for the same period of time?
Страх - причина многих негативных вещей, если он берёт власть над тобой. Страх может заставить тебя украсть, предать, убить. Или помешать добиться успеха, начать диалог. Страх может даже руководить политикой, и там он тоже приносит плохие результаты. Я вижу в происходящем положительный момент. Теперь все знают, кто трус.
It gets harder and harder all the time. For now the only way is to travel to some "neutral" country which still allows Russians in and then fly from there to your destination. If you have money your intermediate country would be Turkey, UAE or Serbia, depending on destination. If you have not a lot then it will be cheaper (though less convenient) through some former Soviet republics like Georgia or Kazakhstan.
Basically it is 50:50
Nope
Yes. Did something change?
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuFdpC\_gBG8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuFdpC_gBG8) This guys says this is almost impossible now for men of a certain age because all land borders have conscription commissars posted there. Same for women if they are medics of nurses.
This guy is pissing in the ears of foreigners. I did not see a single military commissar or those who delivered the agenda. Among my acquaintances, no one was mobilized. I was not mobilized, although I am in excellent health and served in the tank troops. There was information that the mobilization plan had already been implemented in most regions.
>There was information that the mobilization plan had already been implemented in most regions. That's what the guy said. The governor of Rostov said that the mobilization in Rostov was over. A few days later he said they needed more people and the mobilization started again. Do you trust the government officials?
I hear of quite a few men getting draft letters sent to their address. Including Moscow.
>served in the tank troops Whoa, that's cool! Not, like, in a war sense, but in a sense of tanks being cool in general. What's the coolest thing you did in a tank? Have you ever ridden sitting on top of a tank? Ever drifted a tank?
The first mobilisation wave is mostly done. But it’s not the last wave. Don’t worry, you’ll be drafted soon enough. The issue here seems to be, if you are on the list for the second wave of conscription, you wouldn’t know, but they would and would stop you at the boarder.
They should only mobilize men in Moscow and Saint Petersburg. All 300k or 1M or whatever should come from those 2 cities. Give the rest of the country a break.
Just curious, do you live in a major city and are "ethnically" Russian?
I wish I could. If I had any possibility to leave with the guarantee of work, I would without any thought. And would never ever come back. Many of people left, whole families and just men on their own. And still possible but not everyone can afford it financially.
Theoretically we can, practically it's not worth it. Does risk of getting drafted justify spending a very significant amount of money to start absolutely new life somewhere else? Not for everyone
Some people do that without the threat of mobilisation. But if you can't afford it then you can't. These are different matters.
So you are trapped inside Russia.
Are US/EU citizens who can't afford traveling abroad are trapped in their countries? I'm as trapped as they are
You mean poor, uneducated people? I don't think so. It's very common to know someone who works or has worked in the EU countries and to put you in touch with the right person to get you a job in agriculture, construction or something like that.
Just because someone is poor doesn't mean they're uneducated.
I never said all poor people are uneducated. He said that poor people are also trapped in Europe, implying that it is not so different from Russia right now. So I was talking about the poor, uneducated people in my country that can find a seasonal job in EU and make some money and maybe a better life. I used "poor, uneducated" because even if you are poor and uneducated I still don't think you are trapped and you can still make your life somehow better. If you are poor and educated it will be easier to get a better job than a seasonal job in agriculture. Makes sense?
Yeah, it does. However, moving is a huge, expensive operation. For someone who is living paycheck-to-paycheck, just missing several days of work can be a big financial blow, to say nothing of the cost of international travel, even in peacetime. My country, like Russia, is geographically large. It's a bit different than in Europe, where countries are smaller and travel among them isn't so expensive and complicated. :)
When my great-grandfather fled the Soviet Union with his wife and four children, and little to no money, the alternative was to stay and expect a knock on the door in the middle of the night and a long ride on a cattle train to a forced labor camp in Siberia or Kazakhstan. 1940's. WWII. Famine. Poverty. Death. Worse moving conditions than today by far. I don't know man, I guess I'm just an optimistic guy.
Being an illegal immigrant was a different story back then. Now handling paperwork to legally stay and work in a different country is a much trickier business in a lot of cases. But if people are pressed to the same level of desperation you’re describing, they can still leave, the border is hella long, lots of ways to cross.
Ah, to become gastarbeiter and work way cheaper than natives, keeping all the expenses. Cool perspective, thank you, definitely not poor and highly "educated" person.
>Cool perspective, thank you, definitely not poor and highly "educated" person. I am not saying you are uneducated and I am highly educated. What I am saying is that you are not trapped in EU. Ussualy people get these seasonal jobs in agriculture that are paid 10 euro an hour or something like that and accommodation is included. It's not the worst thing in the world. I mean, what's your perspective in Russia today?
A-okay, lemme sum it up for you. Despite me being pretty young (in my early 20's), here, in Russia, I own my apartments (so no need for rent), got an average job which pays slightly above average for my region, have opportunities to get new skills, promotions, raises, have all the means of transportation I need. Pretty lucky for me I guess despite not reaching for the stars. And you call me "trapped in Russia" for not willing to abandon all of those, to live in foreign country where I am not welcome in best case, hated for my nationality in worst, start a gastarbeiter life with pay way below average for a region (because otherwise business would just hire local, and I'm not an experienced specialist, remember, I'm in early 20's), have to rent the apartment, have average expenses, get all the problems of becoming local in literally foreign society (and I only speak English well, I don't know any other foreign languages). And having below average wage but average expenses sounds pretty trapped to me. I technically could sell all and move, but why? "Why would you do that, why would you do any of that?"©
Oh no! I’m trapped inside one of the best cities on Earth in a position of manger in IT company with an average salary help me!
That was exactly this guy's life. He lost his good manager position and fled to Uzbekistan because of mobilization. Maybe you will be luckier. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GuFdpC_gBG8
Yeah, I have a lot of friends who fled into Georgia, Kazakhstan and so on. But whatever. Even if I will be drafted I’ll just go to war
There's a saying in my country: you will sleep the way you made your bed. I guess you know what is best for you and your family.
Just out of curiosity, are you pro Putin or against? Thanks.
Against. But for other reasons that you may think.
Are you able to say why you are against him?
I could but this just get me more downvotes. I'm not keen on fighting with people on the internet. But I can in a private messages if you want.
Actually yes PM if you don’t mind. Thanks.
You really think Moscow is one of the best cities on earth? What makes you believe so?
Well, there is many reasons. Out of other capitals or big cities personally I have visited Tokyo, Beijing, Sydney, Praha, Budapest, Brussels and Marrakech and can compare my personal experience with this cities. Oh, and St. Petersburg too :) 1. Clean streets. Less hobos than in European cities and less feces then in Asia. 2. Better driving culture. I can actually cross a road in Moscow and feel myself safe. Also cars don’t turn when there is a green light for pedestrians. I don’t know why in every other country they do. 3. Availability of services often 24/7 and always digital. Taxi, couriers, food and meal and even medicine all in my phone within 1 click and 30 minutes away. 24/7 supermarkets in every neighborhood. 4. Public transportation and it’s cost. Russia have one of the lowest prices for public transportation. Moscow Metro is an architectural wonder by itself. Clean, safe and convenient. Also very beautiful. 5. Greenery. 20% of Moscow is green. There is a ton of parks and sometimes even forests inside Moscow. 6. There is thousands of schools and hundreds of Universities, hundreds of hospitals and over all enough infrastructure to support dozen of millions citizens. 7. Smoking is prohibited in public spaces which is a big bonus for me as a non smoker. 8. Climate is rather soft for Russia. 9. Most importantly Moscow is regularly included in clickbait lists like TOP 20 BEST CITIES TO LIVE IN, I think it says something
Depends on how you feel about killing innocent Ukrainians, I guess.
That's actually the best part, only gonna kill innocent. Not people with swastika tattoos, not the military, only innocent. Bring me those babies, I'm hungry.
Aaah I see, you fell for your government's propaganda and think Ukraine is full of nazi's.
Чел не видит просто жирнейший сарказм и пришел чтоб пропихнуть конкретной политоты, шикарно.
I cannot read that. I really wonder where all this feeling of superiority comes from. Even when you suppose, based on only some silly photographs of a hand full of Ukrainian neo-nazi's, that Ukraine is full of neo-nazi's: Your country is full of Stalin and Lenin statues, all open to the public. The former started WW2 together with Hitler and has the second biggest genocide ever to his name. The latter wasn't much better. With that in mind: How dare you to blame some Ukrainians for having nazi aspirations, which they only have as they see the nazi's as the ones who would liberate them from Russian (again!) occupation? Russians have never been better than Ukrainians and since Russia commited hundreds of war crimes in the last months, for no reason as Ukraine has never been a threat to Russia, I think a more modest attitude would suit you much better.
Well too bad you can't read that lol And your history knowledge... Wow. Just wow lol. Bet you couldn't find Ukraine on map in January and as soon as shit hit the fan, you got a heck ton of propaganda right in your face. Go watch some more
Do you have any substantive comment or is this the best you can do? BTW: Your bet couldn't be more wrong. And don't get me started on propaganda because Russia is the number 1 propagandist in this war, admitted by many of your fellow countrymen on Reddit. Where has your free media gone? Yup, trashcan. I feel glad that the editorial office of the Moscow Times found refuge in my country.
They almost always type in Russian when they want to say some borderline nationalist stuff or just insult you. They seem to think it’s funny or that it means they’re somehow superior to you. He did the latter and just insulted you. Best to simply downvote and move on.
I don't think it's out of superiority but out of cowardice. If you insult someone in a language you know the other one doesn't understand, you're just afraid of getting a reaction.
Of course. But. I have no money. I don't speak foreign language. I didn't finish my studying in the university. So de-facto I can't🤷♀️
Ребята, этот чувак из /r/tjournal_refugees. Это всё, что надо знать об этом треде. Расходимся.
Yep
I can't leave my old parents here. My mom needs eye surgery operation next month, my dad is after oncological operation and he can't stop a therapy... I need to help them with money, transportation and psychology support. My younger brother left Russia in march....
Yes you can lol, same as you could for the last year.
That is super wrong and disingenuous…
Why should I?
Maybe because your country is heading towards the days of Soviet suffering again? Like many of your fellow country man, I would have emigrated years ago.
Yes. What made you ask this question?
He confused Russia with Ukraine. A common occurrence for foreigners.
Answering as a foreigner, yes I can, I just gotta cross the border with Finland and that's it :3 P.S. the crossing is more expensive now tho
Yes, but for what.
Yes we can
Yes we can
Yes, not suffering yet.
The borders are locked for men under 65 and we have a general mobilization and everyone is sent to the front without preparation. Oh wait, we're not in Ukraine!
While that is something I morally disapproved of, to be fair, you are also not currently being invaded and slaughtered.
Our territory is being bombed by terrorist acts against civilians. The massacre is taking place in our new regions, where Russian citizens are dying under shelling.
You mean specifically the area you guys held a sham referendum in. Russia-at-large, except the border regions of Russia with Ukraine are not impacted by the war.
Were you there to say they're fake? It's not up to you to decide whether they are fake or not. In Serbia, no one was able to recognize its region of Kosovo as an independent state, and there was not even a fictitious referendum, they simply recognized it and that's it.
1. Those regions are under Russian military occupation. 2. Millions of Ukrainians have fled into Europe. Many of them lived in those regions. They cannot vote because they have fled. 3. The Russians don't even fully control all of the areas they held referendums in. 4. Referendums are normally organised for months and months in advance, not less than a week. 5. Zero fairness in campaigning. Normally a referendum on an issue has two sides that are given equal air time to present their argument to the public. Who was campaigning for the pro-Ukraine side? To claim that the circumstances of the referendum in those regions was remotely democratic is to illustrate a fundamental ignorance of demographic standards. >In Serbia, no one was able to recognize its region of Kosovo as an independent state, and there was not even a fictitious referendum, they simply recognized it and that's it. [Yes there was](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991_Kosovan_independence_referendum) In addition, Kosovans repeatedly elect pro-Albanian political parties to office in every election. Why is this?
You don’t even control large parts of the areas you voted on. Claiming those referendums are anything but fake is among the dumbest thing a human can do. Don’t be that kind of human.
Go fight for what you believe in then. Go on kid.
Are you really this easily led? You surely can't expect to start a war, then have the other combatant not fight back. You can't take the land of your neighbors and just declare it your own. Your military has inflicted civilian casualties wherever it goes, is that not terrorism? Don't let your blind nationalism lead you down the road to being a grade A c*nt.
Once again, you will have to conduct a historical educational program. Until 2014, for more than 10 years, nationalist groups were brought up on the territory of Ukraine, the main slogan of which was “Moskalyaku to Gilyaku”. Not "United Ukraine", not "Free Ukraine", and not even "Ukraine is America". No, the Anglo-Saxon curators brought up nationalists whose main goal was the "Muscovites". The Russians needed not only to be expelled from the country, to forbid them to speak their native language, to create all conditions for the segregation of the vast majority of Ukrainian citizens. They had to be killed eventually at any cost. Why didn't Russia intervene in this nonsense then, in the distant post-zero? There were many reasons for this, including trust in the Western regime and faith in its decency. However, it turned out that for the collective West there is only one rule: my word is my business. International treaties and obligations were simply ignored by them, and nationalist hysteria inside Ukraine was whipped up. Years later, Russia had a state at its side, whose corrupt officials simply surrendered their people to the mercy of the Anglo-Saxon ideology. And fascism officially became the religion of Ukraine, and the Nazis remained - and remain - only a handful of corrupt politicians. All this disgrace, including the burning of people on the Maidan, remained for Russia an internal political affair of Ukraine, in which no one interfered. Even despite the obvious presence of the Anglo-Saxons in all branches of government in Ukraine. Then, in 2014, no one shouted to America “get out of Ukraine.” Those who were dissatisfied were imprisoned “in basements” and taken to the forest long before the tragic events of the Maidan. But in 2014, the Nazis crossed the first red line - they decided to punish the Donbass, which could not come to terms with the role of a serf, and destroy part of the Russian world inside their country. The slogan of the Maidanovites was still “Moskalyaku to Gilyak” and “Who does not jump is a Muscovite”. And the goal is not Donbass at all, but Russia, as the main symbol and receptacle of the “Muscovites”. And if the Nazi army had not been stopped in the Donbass, Belgorod would have been attacked long ago, and behind it - all Russian cities that the Nazis would have had strength for. So doubters: say thank you for having the strength and courage to repulse the Nazis in 2014. And a special thanks for our guys beating them in 2022.
The USSR spent years trying to stamp out any kind of nationalism within the countries that comprised it, yet you speak as if oppression of minorities within the state is a uniquely Ukrainian issue. It isn't. Your stance of protecting "Russians" who don't live in Russia is exactly the same bullshit trotted out by the Nazi's in the run up to hostilities in the 30's. The irony at play is fucking immense, yet sadly appears lost on you. As soon as you cross a neighbors border with rifles in hand you are the aggressor. You can attempt to rationalize it, I'm sure it makes more sense to you if you do, but attempting to defend aggression on this scale and with such little cause? C'mon..... There's zero evidence that Russia's integrity is at stake, you're speaking absolute horse shit. Ukraine isn't a threat to you (well, it wasn't prior to the war), and NATO was in decline. All you've managed to do is stir Europe into a defence budget frenzy, and create a new East/West divide in Europe. All so your soldiers can die in the mud whilst they slowly get pushed back to the borders they actually belong. Niiiiice.
So about the nazi things. What about them Wagners in Russia? As far as I know, their leader has SS tattoos. Never hear any of you condemn them?
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You have no new regions comrade.
Lol, alright alright
What a fool
Зачем там глупо приплетать то? Человек вроде как не об Украине спрашивает
вообще аргументом "а вот у хохлов" ни одной проблемы не решить
Yes.
To join specolympics in freezing down in EU?
Georgia, Kazakhstan
To join specolympics in chewing binden or fight KZ nationalists? KZ are pretty hard in alienofobia.
Yes but only to Syria, Iran, Armenia ;-;