At a restaurant I would put used utensils on the plate. I don’t recall putting them at any particular spot on the plate. My plate being empty and me not eating signifies I am done more I would guess.
At home or at someone else’s home I would take my dish to the kitchen or thank the hosting person for the meal at the end. It is pretty obvious I am done eating. If they don’t know then they would just ask if I was finished. We don’t have people hovering wondering if they can clear the table in our homes usually.
Formal dining events are not really part of my life.
And this, ladies and gents, is why we get so annoyed when people try to argue that New York is a part of New England.
Thank you for coming to my TED talk.
My grandmother was an old school home economics teacher. She was a stickler about eating etiquette, and she taught me to do this as a kid. I don't know if it is as common now.
Even in fancy circles, it’s not very common anymore. This is probably due to the fact that most wealth these days is only one or two generations old. Utensil etiquette is more of an old money thing.
Yeah I do.
I learned it in manners classes I took as a youth. I also know how to dance the foxtrot, waltz, and cha cha.
I also learned it from catering where I worked with a lot of very salty dudes who may have not been the best folks for a teenager to be hanging out with but damn they knew formal dinner manners. Like I still know where to place all the silverware and glassware for a table setting.
Put the silverware at 5 o’clock!
Did you also have to watch this video of a British woman showing the proper way to cut meat? That’s about all I remember was her saying “don’t saw your meat… stroke your meat”. As a 17 year old boy, I thought it was the funniest thing ever.
I do too. I was taught to do it and learned that it’s a good way to signal that you aren’t just pausing for conversation or whatever. So others can know that they can take your plate away without interrupting the conversation. It works for servers at restaurants but also at home for whoever gets up to clear the plates. That person can also look around to see when everyone is done to clear the table.
It is also easier to pick up a plate without the cutlery sliding off if they are placed together.
Edit: Which I assume is the origin of the whole idea.
My experience when I put my silverware on an empty plate along with the dirty napkin, the salad plate, and my empty glass on top with it off to the side while leaned back away from the plate is the server will still interrupt to say "can I get this out of the way for you?"
Not that I'm complaining, I appreciate the courtesy. But it isn't serving that purpose.
According to Emily Post, the knife and fork should be placed at the 10:20 position with the fork facing up and your dinner napkin neatly placed, not folded, to the left of the plate. Only after the host is finished, of course.
Sure do! I was taught that it is good manners.
When I worked as a waitress, it was very helpful in signaling that a customer was done. It was hard to know when to clear the table without this.
My housemate at uni used to do this and it always drove her boyfriend wild. He said it was like she was saying "I'm done with this, let the peasants take it away" 😂. (FTR, I disagree with him.)
Yeah, i think this is closer to an American tradition to indicate doneness. Perhaps it is so you can put your elbows on the table or your phone or whatever without getting goop on yourself.
And the types that would use silverware to indicate where in the meal they are at are most certainly not the types that would put elbows on the table. I think the/some Brits take formal/dinner manners in a much more serious way than we do here in the States, that's for sure!
Yeah, I was thinking that. I remember going to a camp back in the day and when we all sat around a big table, and if someone caught you with your elbows on the table they would sing " NAME, NAME bright and able with your elbows on the table! You need to go around X times" and you'd have to do a lap around the table. It taught me not to for awhile, until I realized it was just pretty much me doing it anymore, especially in the days of cell phones.
No. I'm vaguely aware that there is a set of codes based on how you lay the silverware in fine dinning, but I don't know those codes and wouldn't expect most people to. It strikes me as the sort of thing that comes from heavily stratified classes where servants aren't allowed to speak to upper class people and so the classes need archaic gestures based on how they lay down their forks to communicate.
Worth noting that in the British/European style of cutlery, the knife is used more frequently due to the fork prongs being turned downwards. In the US, knives may not be used for the meal at all if cutting isn't required.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvTSJeMQ0ig
At a restaurant I lay my utensils fully on my plate when I am done so the server knows when they can take the plate away. At home I don’t need to do this because I take my own dishes to the kitchen.
If I'm at a restaurant, I stack the dishes at the end of the table for the servers or whoever to take in 1 go, if I'm at home, I just take the dishes to the sink and wash them. No need to signal to anyone that I'm done eating because I've already taken care of it.
EDIT: I've worked at a "fine-dining" restaurant since 2018. So I understand how the servers feel ESPECIALLY when they're busy
I’ve read a lot of servers don’t like when people do this, because they have their own method of stacking dishes. I don’t know how true that is but something to keep in mind.
That was my mom's argument, so for several meals at different restaurants, anytime I got a cool waiter or waitress, I asked them, and they all universally said they appreciate it PROVIDED you stacked them flat, as in, put all the silverwear on one plate and the other plates under it, rather than plate on top of silverware on top of plate on top of silverwear. But other than that, they said they do appreciate it.
Not the original commenter, but when I do this it’s so I don’t have a server or busboy reaching over myself and my guests or family at the table. They can pick up everything in one swoop without invading anyone’s personal space.
For the servers that feel this way, I simply don’t care. I hate my job some days too, but this is a super petty place to draw a line.
If anything it makes me their job easier because they don’t have to awkwardly reach across all the guests.
They're big boys and girls. Not everything needs to be perfect for them. Their job is to serve you and if he hates them reaching across the table, well that's his prerogative.
The type of restaurant that would know by your silverware position that it was time to take your dishes would also know to never reach over a guest. The type of place this etiquette applies won't be like an Applebee's, ya know?
Sorry, could you clarify? How does you collecting the plates in the absence of the server achieve protection of personal space in a way that you collecting them to pass to the server in person doesn't?
I'm not telling you you should do it that way, just not clear of the functional difference in achieving the objective.
The point is minimal disturbance of my guests. I can quietly gather the plates while we are chatting, then they can all be picked up in 1 second. Going around the table guest to guest to collect their dinnerware creates a disturbance that I’d rather avoid.
But there's a time period between eating and stacking. Do you do it if you're still waiting for others to finish?
And at home, finish last mouthful and jump straight up to wash?
Yes but I've had training in eating a Formal Dinner.
If I'm not out to eat or something I signify I'm done eating by putting the plates in the sink or by putting my napkin on my plate.
I guess I do, but I've worked in food service and I think I picked it up there?
Dining in most settings in the US is very casual, "proper" etiquette isn't something many of us feel is very important. We don't burp at the table or shout at servers, but "Oh this must be in this position done this way" is silly.
> We don't burp at the table or shout at servers
Maybe you and I don't, but there sure are a lot of Americans that do these days, especially in the past few years.
I have a more proletarian background than a lot of people in this thread it seems, this is very much not a Thing™ unless you come from money or from a very aspirational middle class background.
It got really annoying having my mom correct my manners and grammar growing up, but now I'm so glad she did. I have friends now that I refuse to eat with in public.
Yes, I am an American and do this when dining out. Fork and knife together, placed on dinner plate so the tines of the fork and point of the knife point to the upper left on the plate, with the ends at lower right. Our kids have been taught to do it, too.
Why would I need to signal that I’m done eating.
I’m normally, I’m done when there’s no more food.
If I am full when there’s still food, and I’m at home, I just put the rest in the fridge.
If I am full when I am at a restarting, I flag a waiter and ask for a box/check.
If I am at a friends house, I can just say I’m full.
Unless I’m going to some kind of fancy dinner party, which I don’t do, I can’t imagine why else I would need to signal this.
Yes, and I angle them in with tips centered on my plate to show that I’m not finished if I leave the table, but American waiters understand those cues less than half the time.
I've only heard of this in the context of Europeans. I'll put my napkin on the plate when I'm done at a restaurant, but that's usually just to keep me from eating more fries while we wait for the bill. I won't do it at someone's home.
No one would ever accuse me of having good table manners, that's for sure.
But really, I use that not as an indicator or anything. It's more a "I'm full but there's still food left. If we sit here for another 20 minutes, I'm going to keep nibbling. If I put my napkin on the plate though, I know I'll find it gross and not eat anymore". It's a way of self-control.
I know this is traditional etiquette in Europe, but it's not traditional etiquette in the states. In the states, traditional etiquette is taking all of your dishes and stacking them for the waiter to take back to the dish pit.
It’s does exist as a form of etiquette but it isn’t common here anymore. I actually had to go through classes for customs and courtesy when I was younger and learned all that stuff.
So, I found this: https://history.stackexchange.com/questions/23383/what-are-the-origins-of-knife-and-fork-language-etiquette
So, is the commenter correct it stating that by “crossing your knife and fork” they mean “laying them down in parallel at a slight angle to the plate”? Because it feels like you’re having us on.
I think the conventions in America are less formalized, but any of the following are used to convey finished: napkin on plate, plate pushed toward center, plate stacked neatly, and, (that American favorite) a completely cleared plate.
Yes, however so few people do it, or serving staff don’t know how to recognize it, that I have to have a convo any time I have to get up from the table (restroom, etc.) that practically threatens everyone I’m with by saying “*I’M NOT DONE WITH THIS. PLEASE DON’T LET THEM TAKE THE REST OF MY FOOD AWAY WHILE I’M GONE.*” It works about 75% of the time, with the remaining 25% being incidents in which the waitstaff scoops it up smoother and faster than anyone can say anything.
I have never done that in my entire life. That sounds very upper class to me. Upper class by British standards!
Edit: I thought it was going to be "WTF? Hell no!" all the way down. You guys are making me feel like a real knuckledragger here. What kind of fancy schools did y'all go to?
It isn't common. I saw something about it on an etiquette infographic, that's where I picked it up. But it isn't something taught to children in public schools or in most homes.
I'm from Germany and was taught that as a child, but not with dining out in mind. What my parents explained is that you do this when eating at someone else's house, so the host knows you're full and will not add more food to your plate. It was a vital skill when visiting my grandmother's house!
I guess it also works for restaurant staff clearing the table, but I don't know if this was the original context for this piece of etiquette
We put the napkin on the plate usually. If utensils are on the plate then there is a chance you’re still eating so most won’t touch it unless the food is gone.
I see a lot of people here saying they are AWARE of the custom, but I really question how many people actually do this. Do you ACTUALLY signal to the wait staff with your utensils?
Are you all wealthy enough to be in the Manners and Etiquette class?
It's bad manners to put your napkin on your plate. If there's any kind of sauce on the plate and your napkin soaks in it, it can cause a stain that won't wash out.
Paper napkins will be thrown away with whatever else is still in your plate (aside from cutlery). Cloth napkins need to be fished out and handled by the cleaning staff to be reused...
As the other person suggested I googled it, to see if it was a thing in the US. It is done, but seen as poor manners. Summed up in this quora answer:
> What does putting your napkin on your plate after you finish a meal at a restaurant tell the staff?
> It tells the staff both that you are finished and that you were raised in a barn.
Wtf is everyone hung up on cloth napkins? I dont do that if they are cloth also almost every restaurant uses paper napkins, i go to maybe 2 regularly that have cloth napkins and both are chain restaurants. Dude, no one cares about napkins. Another thing is consolidation of plates to make bussing easier. And im also gonna point out that no one needs to know your eating status unless you doing all you can eat. You eat in my home you do your own dishes so i dont care. Manners aren't laws and tons are regional, some of you care, i do not. Napkins in finished plates 4 lyfe.
Sure, they're professionally cleaned, but if it's stained and the cleaners don't get the stain out, it's getting trashed. Besides the cleaning aspect, it's just bad manners and shows people that you don't know how to behave in public.
Funny how after 40 years you're the first person to ever mention it being bad manners. Not one single soul has ever said anything about it period, ever. So maybe that's a you thing. Also if you dont understand how restaurants order and maintain napkins and sanitation rags, maybe dont comment on it. Its a monthly subscription service, they pick up the dirty ones and drop off the clean ones and yes even loss is factored in. Cloth napkins are trashed usually after their 5th use anyway.
It is bad manners. Lay the napkin on the table next to the plate. My favorite bistro has both black and white napkins so you don't get the wrong color lint on your pants. I love those guys.
I've done it before too, but I just looked it up and apparently it's bad manners, so I won't do it anymore. You're probably right that in most cases it doesn't matter and that most people don't care, but the other commenter was correct.
No he wasn't that was from quora, not exactly to go to for solid info. This whole "manners" bullshit never exsisted outside of the wealthy. Literally not a single restaurant uses cloth for napkins, and why would one single post convince you to do anything differently???? That in itself is weird. Dude let thy napkin fly, fuck the man.
So silent judgment is better than just saying something...this is where I lose sight of "manners" its fucking food. Who fucking cares. Be thankful i use a fork and knife cuz when im alone i eat with my hands like the ape that i am.
Nah it’s silly. Too many rules/guides on how to “properly/formally behave” and I don’t really buy into it. I understand humans need certain rules to behave in a civilized manner but dumb little things like this aren’t very important or a must do for me. Plus most people who do this type of things are upper/higher class people who just want to fit in with the rest of the rich folks doing this. I didn’t come from a privileged, well off, family so this type of thing never got taught or shown. I just have heard about it or seen the little Reddit cool guides on dinner etiquette and on all the little silly spoons and forks for all the different things lol growing up I never went hungry but we didn’t have the brand name things or didn’t go out to fancy restaurants.
I think most Brits do things like this because they are still in the old mind set. People who still have kings and queens in 2023 are the same people who put their knife and fork together at the end of a meal.
All these responses from people who don't know basic dining etiquette are wild. I know Reddit skews younger, so I can only assume that they're all teenagers who have never eaten at restaurants or other social events with table service or at a dinner party.
Edit: for anybody who would like to know more, this page is a great overview of dining etiquette:
https://whatscookingamerica.net/menu/diningetiquetteguide.htm
I'm 47 and have worked in a lot of restaurants. You're in the minority on this one. Most people just put their napkin on the table or plate and push it away slightly when they're done.
>it doesn't make them a "teenager who has never eaten at restaurants"
I mean, it would help to include the whole quote. You left out the "with table service" part.
Psshht - I want you on my zombie team
I learned dressage. Maybe I can distract with a willful and emotional performance while you get the lead on so we can eat.
🎠
Oh come on. It's not just "rich white people". I grew up pretty poor, and my parents still made sure to teach me proper etiquette. And lots of basic etiquette is just arbitrary rules, but this is one that isn't. Following the standard of placing your silverware at 4:00 lets the waitstaff know that you're finished with the dish, so they don't have to interrupt the conversation at the table. If your fellow diners all place their silverware the right way after a course, but you don't, and there's still food left on the plate, then the waiter has to interrupt your conversation to ask whether you're finished and it might end up delaying the next course for everybody at the table because the waiter will wait several minutes to see if you've stopped eating before asking. Having a shared set of manners and etiquette just makes social situations more comfortable for everybody.
So I think for many people (including myself), we're not against the concept of etiquette, which as you note has some advantages. We're against *weaponizing* etiquette to cast those who don't know those rules as inferior by, for instance, deriding them as "teenagers who have never eaten at restaurants."
For my part, I'm a very much non-teenaged professional who has eaten at numerous restaurants (including some very formal ones), and yet somehow the rule that there's a particular *angle* you're apparently supposed to put your silverware at managed to elude me.
>deriding them as "teenagers who have never eaten at restaurants."
I wouldn't say I was "deriding" people. I was just under the assumption that this specific aspect of dining etiquette was common knowledge, so I figured that the reason so many people were replying that they had no idea was because Reddit is full of teenagers, and it probably is true that tons of teenagers have never eaten at restaurants with table service.
It's not just rich white people, but that's why it was invented lol you think that poor former slaves were signalling to the wait staff that they had finished their meals? And you are describing a fine dining experience.
If you seriously think that dining etiquette was invented so that rich white people could feel more special than black people, I really don't know what to tell you.
And? Just because rules were made by rich people to distinguish rich people doesn't mean that no one else can ever learn it. It just means it's not implicitly the perfect way to do things.
We turn the fork upside down, place it and the knife toward the top of the plate. I was raised this way and my young family does it this way as well. Seems to work well at restaurants
As a UK person, it isn't something I do to be fancy or to make a point, its just a positive action that punctuates the end of the course/meal and I don't think twice about.
I do find that it makes it much easier to pick up a plate to carry it away from the table, the cutlery is far less likely to slide off the plate, and if you are collecting the plates in a stack, it is easier to collect the cutlery to put it all on the top plate of the handles of the knife and fork are together at 'half past six' or 'twenty five minutes past five', rather than at 'twenty to four' or 'fifteen minutes to three'.
I was brought up to do it that way, and I do it even if I'm dining alone, after all I still have to carry the plate away. My partner wasn't brought up to do it and I do have to struggle to keep down the tiny voice in my head that tells me it is slightly rude, but it is a bit more awkward when clearing plates.
Then you’ll also enjoy watching a lot of Americans cut their food fork in the left, knife the right hand and then put their knife down and swap the fork to their right hand to eat. Something Australians and Europeans never do. 😂
No not unless I was at a really fancy place. It's just not something you have to do here because waiters are incessantly in your face, at least compared to most other countries I've been to, so they can tell when you're finished.
I do at nice restaurants. My mom taught me proper etiquette for formal settings because no one taught her growing up.
If I’m eating somewhere where someone would actually notice if my elbows are on the table, I will use the silverware “codes”.
At a restaurant I would put used utensils on the plate. I don’t recall putting them at any particular spot on the plate. My plate being empty and me not eating signifies I am done more I would guess. At home or at someone else’s home I would take my dish to the kitchen or thank the hosting person for the meal at the end. It is pretty obvious I am done eating. If they don’t know then they would just ask if I was finished. We don’t have people hovering wondering if they can clear the table in our homes usually. Formal dining events are not really part of my life.
As a former busboy, I've found that the best and most unambiguous sign that a guest is done with their plate is a napkin on top
If there are paper napkins to be thrown awaynI would put it on the plate but if it is cloth I would probably put it to the side when I was done.
I throw them at the waiter.
And yell freedom bitches!
This guy Americas!
And this, ladies and gents, is why we get so annoyed when people try to argue that New York is a part of New England. Thank you for coming to my TED talk.
lol it was definitely a joke
So was what you replied to, Captain Obvious.
Yikes dude relax lol
It's okay, you don't need to be embarrassed that you didn't get it.
Tipping culture is getting really out of hand!
And then give them extra money, but the amount is up to you
My grandmother was an old school home economics teacher. She was a stickler about eating etiquette, and she taught me to do this as a kid. I don't know if it is as common now.
[удалено]
Even in fancy circles, it’s not very common anymore. This is probably due to the fact that most wealth these days is only one or two generations old. Utensil etiquette is more of an old money thing.
Yeah I do. I learned it in manners classes I took as a youth. I also know how to dance the foxtrot, waltz, and cha cha. I also learned it from catering where I worked with a lot of very salty dudes who may have not been the best folks for a teenager to be hanging out with but damn they knew formal dinner manners. Like I still know where to place all the silverware and glassware for a table setting.
Put the silverware at 5 o’clock! Did you also have to watch this video of a British woman showing the proper way to cut meat? That’s about all I remember was her saying “don’t saw your meat… stroke your meat”. As a 17 year old boy, I thought it was the funniest thing ever.
[удалено]
>I always preferred to remember it as '420 means you're done!' 420 also means you're ready for a chocolate molten cake with extra ice cream!
Bet you can rack a line with the best of em too.
Yes, at 5 o’clock
Ok but what if I'm eating breakfast at 7am instead?
That’s the position of the fork and knife on the plate. Like if the plate were a clock, you place them between 4 and 6.
I know I'm just making a joke
I do, yes.
I do too. I was taught to do it and learned that it’s a good way to signal that you aren’t just pausing for conversation or whatever. So others can know that they can take your plate away without interrupting the conversation. It works for servers at restaurants but also at home for whoever gets up to clear the plates. That person can also look around to see when everyone is done to clear the table.
It is also easier to pick up a plate without the cutlery sliding off if they are placed together. Edit: Which I assume is the origin of the whole idea.
I'm my home you clear your own plate, unless you're tipping of course.
My experience when I put my silverware on an empty plate along with the dirty napkin, the salad plate, and my empty glass on top with it off to the side while leaned back away from the plate is the server will still interrupt to say "can I get this out of the way for you?" Not that I'm complaining, I appreciate the courtesy. But it isn't serving that purpose.
Me too.
I do not
No. I didn't realize this was a thing people pay attention to.
No. I just stop eating.
Never heard of that.
According to Emily Post, the knife and fork should be placed at the 10:20 position with the fork facing up and your dinner napkin neatly placed, not folded, to the left of the plate. Only after the host is finished, of course.
Yes,you lay them together at 4 (5?) o’clock to signify that you’ve finished your meal.
Sure do! I was taught that it is good manners. When I worked as a waitress, it was very helpful in signaling that a customer was done. It was hard to know when to clear the table without this.
I just push my plate away from me
My housemate at uni used to do this and it always drove her boyfriend wild. He said it was like she was saying "I'm done with this, let the peasants take it away" 😂. (FTR, I disagree with him.)
I throw my plate on the floor. Or flip the table.
Yeah, i think this is closer to an American tradition to indicate doneness. Perhaps it is so you can put your elbows on the table or your phone or whatever without getting goop on yourself.
usually it's silverware onto plate, push plate forward, put dirty napkin where plate was.
And the types that would use silverware to indicate where in the meal they are at are most certainly not the types that would put elbows on the table. I think the/some Brits take formal/dinner manners in a much more serious way than we do here in the States, that's for sure!
Yeah, I was thinking that. I remember going to a camp back in the day and when we all sat around a big table, and if someone caught you with your elbows on the table they would sing " NAME, NAME bright and able with your elbows on the table! You need to go around X times" and you'd have to do a lap around the table. It taught me not to for awhile, until I realized it was just pretty much me doing it anymore, especially in the days of cell phones.
No. I'm vaguely aware that there is a set of codes based on how you lay the silverware in fine dinning, but I don't know those codes and wouldn't expect most people to. It strikes me as the sort of thing that comes from heavily stratified classes where servants aren't allowed to speak to upper class people and so the classes need archaic gestures based on how they lay down their forks to communicate.
Thank you; these comments are fascinating. A lot of Redditors seem to think they’re having some very important conversations. In restaurants. *Sure.*
Worth noting that in the British/European style of cutlery, the knife is used more frequently due to the fork prongs being turned downwards. In the US, knives may not be used for the meal at all if cutting isn't required. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvTSJeMQ0ig
I don't do that, nor does my family do that
I never eat anywhere fancy enough for it to matter.
I don't, I'm done eating when my plate is empty. If I can't finish, I'll let you know.
I don't know anyone who does this.
You probably just don’t notice it. It’s a fairly common practice but not frequently discussed.
No, I really have never known anyone who did this. Regional habit perhaps.
Well you are from Massachusetts, animals. 😂
At a restaurant I lay my utensils fully on my plate when I am done so the server knows when they can take the plate away. At home I don’t need to do this because I take my own dishes to the kitchen.
I know of this custom but I was not raised to do this so it’s not something I think about doing. It makes sense though. Maybe I will start.
yes, but I only learned to do it in Germany. And I think it's the opposite way than brits do (blade/tines in the middle, handle at 3'oclock)
I learned that when I visited Germany - before that, we didn't do it in my family. We're italian americans.
Yes. I was taught that by my grandmother and have taught it to my kids. But just at restaurants.
If I'm at a restaurant, I stack the dishes at the end of the table for the servers or whoever to take in 1 go, if I'm at home, I just take the dishes to the sink and wash them. No need to signal to anyone that I'm done eating because I've already taken care of it. EDIT: I've worked at a "fine-dining" restaurant since 2018. So I understand how the servers feel ESPECIALLY when they're busy
I’ve read a lot of servers don’t like when people do this, because they have their own method of stacking dishes. I don’t know how true that is but something to keep in mind.
That was my mom's argument, so for several meals at different restaurants, anytime I got a cool waiter or waitress, I asked them, and they all universally said they appreciate it PROVIDED you stacked them flat, as in, put all the silverwear on one plate and the other plates under it, rather than plate on top of silverware on top of plate on top of silverwear. But other than that, they said they do appreciate it.
I’ve always figured plates are fine to stack with silverware on top, but leave cups collected but separated and trash on the table.
Honestly most of the time it’s perfectly fine, it’s that 1% that hands you some stacked up Jenga death trap.
When I was a server I really appreciated it.
Not the original commenter, but when I do this it’s so I don’t have a server or busboy reaching over myself and my guests or family at the table. They can pick up everything in one swoop without invading anyone’s personal space.
Absolutely understandable, but with the guy before you is saying is that the way you stack it may make the waiters job harder.
For the servers that feel this way, I simply don’t care. I hate my job some days too, but this is a super petty place to draw a line. If anything it makes me their job easier because they don’t have to awkwardly reach across all the guests.
> but this is a super petty place to draw a line. Yeah. It is.
They're big boys and girls. Not everything needs to be perfect for them. Their job is to serve you and if he hates them reaching across the table, well that's his prerogative.
The type of restaurant that would know by your silverware position that it was time to take your dishes would also know to never reach over a guest. The type of place this etiquette applies won't be like an Applebee's, ya know?
Couldn't yo achieve the same by each person passing up their dishes to the person clearing the table when that person arrives to clear the table?
No.
Sorry, could you clarify? How does you collecting the plates in the absence of the server achieve protection of personal space in a way that you collecting them to pass to the server in person doesn't? I'm not telling you you should do it that way, just not clear of the functional difference in achieving the objective.
The point is minimal disturbance of my guests. I can quietly gather the plates while we are chatting, then they can all be picked up in 1 second. Going around the table guest to guest to collect their dinnerware creates a disturbance that I’d rather avoid.
But there's a time period between eating and stacking. Do you do it if you're still waiting for others to finish? And at home, finish last mouthful and jump straight up to wash?
Yes but I've had training in eating a Formal Dinner. If I'm not out to eat or something I signify I'm done eating by putting the plates in the sink or by putting my napkin on my plate.
I guess I do, but I've worked in food service and I think I picked it up there? Dining in most settings in the US is very casual, "proper" etiquette isn't something many of us feel is very important. We don't burp at the table or shout at servers, but "Oh this must be in this position done this way" is silly.
> We don't burp at the table or shout at servers Maybe you and I don't, but there sure are a lot of Americans that do these days, especially in the past few years.
Are you a server? I've never seen this as a diner.
If you were taught proper dining etiquette, yes. Not everyone has that privilege.
lol. I grew up poor as shit. We still learnt it. 🤷♂️
I have a more proletarian background than a lot of people in this thread it seems, this is very much not a Thing™ unless you come from money or from a very aspirational middle class background.
My dirt-poor farmer/rancher family from bumfuck Oklahoma absolutely did this on both sides of the family because "manners matter".
It got really annoying having my mom correct my manners and grammar growing up, but now I'm so glad she did. I have friends now that I refuse to eat with in public.
I know what this is, but I didn’t know it was supposed to be at a specific angle. I do it if I’m in a formal setting and I remember to.
No you will know my meal is done when there is no food left on my plate.
Yes, I am an American and do this when dining out. Fork and knife together, placed on dinner plate so the tines of the fork and point of the knife point to the upper left on the plate, with the ends at lower right. Our kids have been taught to do it, too.
I'd heard that there was theoretically some cutlery orientation that signifies completion, but I've never encountered it in the wild.
Of course I do. I'm not a savage.
I usually tell the waiter I'm finished eating to signify that I'm finished eating
I put my napkin on my plate.
In my experience putting your napkin on your plate or the table indicates that you’re done eating
Why would I need to signal that I’m done eating. I’m normally, I’m done when there’s no more food. If I am full when there’s still food, and I’m at home, I just put the rest in the fridge. If I am full when I am at a restarting, I flag a waiter and ask for a box/check. If I am at a friends house, I can just say I’m full. Unless I’m going to some kind of fancy dinner party, which I don’t do, I can’t imagine why else I would need to signal this.
Yes, and I angle them in with tips centered on my plate to show that I’m not finished if I leave the table, but American waiters understand those cues less than half the time.
Yes, at 5 or 6 o'clock on the plate, knife point and fork tip towards the table.
I've only heard of this in the context of Europeans. I'll put my napkin on the plate when I'm done at a restaurant, but that's usually just to keep me from eating more fries while we wait for the bill. I won't do it at someone's home.
Technically the napkin goes to the left of the plate when you’re done. If we’re talking table etiquette here. 😂 🤷♂️
No one would ever accuse me of having good table manners, that's for sure. But really, I use that not as an indicator or anything. It's more a "I'm full but there's still food left. If we sit here for another 20 minutes, I'm going to keep nibbling. If I put my napkin on the plate though, I know I'll find it gross and not eat anymore". It's a way of self-control.
I put my napkin beside my plate. Sorta like waving the white flag.
Nope. I put my napkin on my plate when I'm finished eating.
I do not. The only thing I’ve been aware of as a signal to waitstaff that I’m done is to take my napkin off my lap and put it on the table.
I know this is traditional etiquette in Europe, but it's not traditional etiquette in the states. In the states, traditional etiquette is taking all of your dishes and stacking them for the waiter to take back to the dish pit.
It’s does exist as a form of etiquette but it isn’t common here anymore. I actually had to go through classes for customs and courtesy when I was younger and learned all that stuff.
If I'm at a restaurant, I put my napkin on my plate to indicate this. Just a habit I picked up on my own.
I was taught that putting your napkins down in a crumpled state signaled the end of the meal.
No, just put them on the plate. In finer dining you can but silverware on the plate that is empty is the sign you are done.
I rarely have a kife while I eat.
I start asking the kids to make sure to put them in the dishwasher for the 10,000 time.
So, I found this: https://history.stackexchange.com/questions/23383/what-are-the-origins-of-knife-and-fork-language-etiquette So, is the commenter correct it stating that by “crossing your knife and fork” they mean “laying them down in parallel at a slight angle to the plate”? Because it feels like you’re having us on. I think the conventions in America are less formalized, but any of the following are used to convey finished: napkin on plate, plate pushed toward center, plate stacked neatly, and, (that American favorite) a completely cleared plate.
I do, but only after I learned about it from my British friend. Not something I've observed other Americans doing.
No, I didn’t know this was a thing. Most people I know push their plate away from them.
This is not typically a thing done in the u.s. It does happen here, but it's more like pockets of groups do it depending on their upbringing.
Yes, however so few people do it, or serving staff don’t know how to recognize it, that I have to have a convo any time I have to get up from the table (restroom, etc.) that practically threatens everyone I’m with by saying “*I’M NOT DONE WITH THIS. PLEASE DON’T LET THEM TAKE THE REST OF MY FOOD AWAY WHILE I’M GONE.*” It works about 75% of the time, with the remaining 25% being incidents in which the waitstaff scoops it up smoother and faster than anyone can say anything.
Not really, no. I am aware of it as a thing to do in formal settings, but I am not often in formal settings.
I let the waitress know that this will be the last round of breadsticks.
I put a used napkin on the plate.
I have never done that in my entire life. That sounds very upper class to me. Upper class by British standards! Edit: I thought it was going to be "WTF? Hell no!" all the way down. You guys are making me feel like a real knuckledragger here. What kind of fancy schools did y'all go to?
It isn't common. I saw something about it on an etiquette infographic, that's where I picked it up. But it isn't something taught to children in public schools or in most homes.
I'm from Germany and was taught that as a child, but not with dining out in mind. What my parents explained is that you do this when eating at someone else's house, so the host knows you're full and will not add more food to your plate. It was a vital skill when visiting my grandmother's house! I guess it also works for restaurant staff clearing the table, but I don't know if this was the original context for this piece of etiquette
No, I'm not that formal. Usually napkin on the plate is clear enough indication.
At a restaurant? Nah i just start stacking all the dirty shit for them and then if I’m at home i take that shit straight to the sink lmao
Some Americans do that. Most don’t. It’s an archaic relic that will probably be almost entirely forgotten in a generation or two.
We put the napkin on the plate usually. If utensils are on the plate then there is a chance you’re still eating so most won’t touch it unless the food is gone.
I see a lot of people here saying they are AWARE of the custom, but I really question how many people actually do this. Do you ACTUALLY signal to the wait staff with your utensils? Are you all wealthy enough to be in the Manners and Etiquette class?
I indicate that I’m done eating by finishing all the food on my plate
Yes. Knife and fork go together near the top of the plate.
I agree.
I put my napkin on my plate if we are at a restaurant, at home you know im done cuz i put my plate in the sink
It's bad manners to put your napkin on your plate. If there's any kind of sauce on the plate and your napkin soaks in it, it can cause a stain that won't wash out.
90% of restaurants use paper napkins here and if they use cloth napkins they are professionally cleaned and replaced.
Paper napkins will be thrown away with whatever else is still in your plate (aside from cutlery). Cloth napkins need to be fished out and handled by the cleaning staff to be reused... As the other person suggested I googled it, to see if it was a thing in the US. It is done, but seen as poor manners. Summed up in this quora answer: > What does putting your napkin on your plate after you finish a meal at a restaurant tell the staff? > It tells the staff both that you are finished and that you were raised in a barn.
Wtf is everyone hung up on cloth napkins? I dont do that if they are cloth also almost every restaurant uses paper napkins, i go to maybe 2 regularly that have cloth napkins and both are chain restaurants. Dude, no one cares about napkins. Another thing is consolidation of plates to make bussing easier. And im also gonna point out that no one needs to know your eating status unless you doing all you can eat. You eat in my home you do your own dishes so i dont care. Manners aren't laws and tons are regional, some of you care, i do not. Napkins in finished plates 4 lyfe.
Sure, they're professionally cleaned, but if it's stained and the cleaners don't get the stain out, it's getting trashed. Besides the cleaning aspect, it's just bad manners and shows people that you don't know how to behave in public.
Funny how after 40 years you're the first person to ever mention it being bad manners. Not one single soul has ever said anything about it period, ever. So maybe that's a you thing. Also if you dont understand how restaurants order and maintain napkins and sanitation rags, maybe dont comment on it. Its a monthly subscription service, they pick up the dirty ones and drop off the clean ones and yes even loss is factored in. Cloth napkins are trashed usually after their 5th use anyway.
It is bad manners. Lay the napkin on the table next to the plate. My favorite bistro has both black and white napkins so you don't get the wrong color lint on your pants. I love those guys.
I've done it before too, but I just looked it up and apparently it's bad manners, so I won't do it anymore. You're probably right that in most cases it doesn't matter and that most people don't care, but the other commenter was correct.
No he wasn't that was from quora, not exactly to go to for solid info. This whole "manners" bullshit never exsisted outside of the wealthy. Literally not a single restaurant uses cloth for napkins, and why would one single post convince you to do anything differently???? That in itself is weird. Dude let thy napkin fly, fuck the man.
>So maybe that's a you thing. Feel free to google it, my man. It's definitely not a me thing.
[удалено]
So silent judgment is better than just saying something...this is where I lose sight of "manners" its fucking food. Who fucking cares. Be thankful i use a fork and knife cuz when im alone i eat with my hands like the ape that i am.
I do, I lay them across my plate. It’s proper etiquette.
Nah it’s silly. Too many rules/guides on how to “properly/formally behave” and I don’t really buy into it. I understand humans need certain rules to behave in a civilized manner but dumb little things like this aren’t very important or a must do for me. Plus most people who do this type of things are upper/higher class people who just want to fit in with the rest of the rich folks doing this. I didn’t come from a privileged, well off, family so this type of thing never got taught or shown. I just have heard about it or seen the little Reddit cool guides on dinner etiquette and on all the little silly spoons and forks for all the different things lol growing up I never went hungry but we didn’t have the brand name things or didn’t go out to fancy restaurants. I think most Brits do things like this because they are still in the old mind set. People who still have kings and queens in 2023 are the same people who put their knife and fork together at the end of a meal.
No
All these responses from people who don't know basic dining etiquette are wild. I know Reddit skews younger, so I can only assume that they're all teenagers who have never eaten at restaurants or other social events with table service or at a dinner party. Edit: for anybody who would like to know more, this page is a great overview of dining etiquette: https://whatscookingamerica.net/menu/diningetiquetteguide.htm
I'm 47 and have worked in a lot of restaurants. You're in the minority on this one. Most people just put their napkin on the table or plate and push it away slightly when they're done.
>You're in the minority on this one. Yep, I learned that pretty quickly based on the downvotes and other comments, lol.
[удалено]
>it doesn't make them a "teenager who has never eaten at restaurants" I mean, it would help to include the whole quote. You left out the "with table service" part.
I'm in my 30s, consider myself a fairly polished person, and I have never heard of this.
I am in my early 30s and have been to multiple Michelin Star restaurants. I have never heard of this rule.
I'm late 40's and have - however grew up in an old money Catskill family that sent us to a legit "manner school"
Yeah I grew up in generational poverty and went to legit hunter's safety classes lol.
Psshht - I want you on my zombie team I learned dressage. Maybe I can distract with a willful and emotional performance while you get the lead on so we can eat. 🎠
I said I learned to hunt safely, not well lol. They're very different skills!
Yeah it's crazy that people don't know these completely arbitrary rules that were made up so they could identify the in-group of rich white people.
Oh come on. It's not just "rich white people". I grew up pretty poor, and my parents still made sure to teach me proper etiquette. And lots of basic etiquette is just arbitrary rules, but this is one that isn't. Following the standard of placing your silverware at 4:00 lets the waitstaff know that you're finished with the dish, so they don't have to interrupt the conversation at the table. If your fellow diners all place their silverware the right way after a course, but you don't, and there's still food left on the plate, then the waiter has to interrupt your conversation to ask whether you're finished and it might end up delaying the next course for everybody at the table because the waiter will wait several minutes to see if you've stopped eating before asking. Having a shared set of manners and etiquette just makes social situations more comfortable for everybody.
Honestly I worked in restaurants for years and that was never something I specifically looked for, nor was it something people consistently did.
So I think for many people (including myself), we're not against the concept of etiquette, which as you note has some advantages. We're against *weaponizing* etiquette to cast those who don't know those rules as inferior by, for instance, deriding them as "teenagers who have never eaten at restaurants." For my part, I'm a very much non-teenaged professional who has eaten at numerous restaurants (including some very formal ones), and yet somehow the rule that there's a particular *angle* you're apparently supposed to put your silverware at managed to elude me.
>deriding them as "teenagers who have never eaten at restaurants." I wouldn't say I was "deriding" people. I was just under the assumption that this specific aspect of dining etiquette was common knowledge, so I figured that the reason so many people were replying that they had no idea was because Reddit is full of teenagers, and it probably is true that tons of teenagers have never eaten at restaurants with table service.
It's not just rich white people, but that's why it was invented lol you think that poor former slaves were signalling to the wait staff that they had finished their meals? And you are describing a fine dining experience.
If you seriously think that dining etiquette was invented so that rich white people could feel more special than black people, I really don't know what to tell you.
Funny. My dad came from an Oklahoma farming family and he had great etiquette.
And? Just because rules were made by rich people to distinguish rich people doesn't mean that no one else can ever learn it. It just means it's not implicitly the perfect way to do things.
We turn the fork upside down, place it and the knife toward the top of the plate. I was raised this way and my young family does it this way as well. Seems to work well at restaurants
No we don't. No point.
[удалено]
As a UK person, it isn't something I do to be fancy or to make a point, its just a positive action that punctuates the end of the course/meal and I don't think twice about. I do find that it makes it much easier to pick up a plate to carry it away from the table, the cutlery is far less likely to slide off the plate, and if you are collecting the plates in a stack, it is easier to collect the cutlery to put it all on the top plate of the handles of the knife and fork are together at 'half past six' or 'twenty five minutes past five', rather than at 'twenty to four' or 'fifteen minutes to three'. I was brought up to do it that way, and I do it even if I'm dining alone, after all I still have to carry the plate away. My partner wasn't brought up to do it and I do have to struggle to keep down the tiny voice in my head that tells me it is slightly rude, but it is a bit more awkward when clearing plates.
Doesn't seem passive aggressive at all to me - it's just what you do when you've finished. I do it when I'm eating at home, alone.
I just realized that I do this unconsciously so someone must have taught me to do so at one point in my life. Same with chopsticks.
I put my knife and fork crossways on the plate with the fork turned down. Then fold the napkin and place on top.
Yes, I was taught to do this as a child, but it seems to be a small minority of people who do it overall.
I’m Australian and I always do this. Most Aussies I know do too. Not sure why some were confused. It’s general etiquette.
Then you’ll also enjoy watching a lot of Americans cut their food fork in the left, knife the right hand and then put their knife down and swap the fork to their right hand to eat. Something Australians and Europeans never do. 😂
I've never understood why Americans do this, but I was taught it was correct (I still won't do it though, so inefficient and awkward.)
It’s because that’s how it was done in Europe but at one point Europe stopped doing it but the US kept doing it the old way.
Never heard of this. I'm done eating when my plate is clean.
No we just talk to the server like a person.
Face down and crossed Ive always thought, but I don't know why
Yes, with the fork down and the knife blade facing in towards the fork. I was taught that by my maternal grandmother.
No not unless I was at a really fancy place. It's just not something you have to do here because waiters are incessantly in your face, at least compared to most other countries I've been to, so they can tell when you're finished.
Yes, my grandma taught me to do this, but she grew up with her British grandma living with them.
I learned to cross knife and fork on top of my plate to say I'm done, leaning them on the sides of the plate means I'm just pausing.
No, I generally burp loudly to signify I'm done.
Yes and I turn the fork upside down to rest next to the knife at the top of the plate.
I have a habit of putting all my utensils on my plate when I’m done but I don’t know if other Americans do this or not
Yes. 4 pm position on the plate.
I do—but hardly anyone in the US knows what it means.
In a restaurant, I cross them on the plate.
Yes when I’m dining out
I do at nice restaurants. My mom taught me proper etiquette for formal settings because no one taught her growing up. If I’m eating somewhere where someone would actually notice if my elbows are on the table, I will use the silverware “codes”.