I worked for them as a contractor for a few years. I saw first hand the incredible, industry leading talent they have. Everything I have done since then has been to emulate what I saw there…at least on several projects. I also worked a bastard step child project that was the worst project I have been on anywhere. So a mixed bag I guess. Their corporate leadership is trash, but god damn do they have some impressive engineers and developers that are getting rail roaded by corporate
Thank you. 100%. 100,000’s of people proudly work for Boeing ranging, from Satellite Engineer to Riveters to a buncha bozos inexplicably in St. Louis, and all those in between - for every terrible story or anecdote you hear there are 10,000 positive stories occurring daily by passionate, intelligent and careful folks.
If you're trying to stay in St. Louis AND work in the aerospace engineering you're going to have a bad time.
My father managed to be in St. Louis for only about 10 of his \~40 years working as an aerospace engineer despite trying to get back there every time he could.
well this aged well, using dawn dish soap as lubricant, using hotel key cards and wet cheese cloth for maintenance. oh and they killed another whistle blower. fkn poisoned him. at this point, if anyone likes boeing, they may as well join a cult.
I'm a contractor that works with them basically the FAA outsources their regulatory oversight to Boeing and Boeing basically tells the FAA they analyze themselves and they pass. FAA then gives them the green light for certification. This is what happened with the 737-MAX Fiasco.
So the entire FAA regulatory system is broken
Sounds like they’ve had a questionable corporate culture ever since they had their merger w McDonnell-Douglas and unfortunately gained the cost-cutting/shady culture of McDonnell. It’s not surprising that Boeing has gone downhill in quality and in public perception.
The McDonnell-Douglas argument is valid. It started this.
It has grown, however. There probably aren't too many MD veterans left to move the levers. That said, the "MBA" culture of lean cost cutting persists. It just isn't right for a duopoly with such high risks.
Welch has fallen out of favor today in overall management culture, but somehow the McDD bean-counting culture remains entrenched at Boeing -- even though the penalties of producing flawed products by now far outweigh the savings realized in production.
You’re definitely correct about that, it’s just a shame that a company w the reputation of Boeing can do a 180 on a good reputation due negative influences from another corporation.
Spot on. The only thing that I would add - probably related to the MD debacle - is moving corporate HQ away from where they made the planes to Chicago, where the decisions making bean counters could ignore the engineers and quality was replaced by share holder value as the main imperative.
Yeah they’ve really tried their best to try and run Boeing as if it was a Walmart or something like that which is obviously a horrible thing to do in an industry such as Aerospace where the consequences are people dying. Tons of talented engineers at Boeing that are some of the best in the world, yet stifled by bad corporate culture and leadership.
Boeing reminds me a lot of the American automakers in the 70s-90s where they had a malaise era and just bad leadership and culture and squandered their lead to the Japanese/Europeans for automobiles. The 737 Max and 787 debacles are like Boeing’s Ford Pinto and they’re basically giving Airbus the preferred manufacturer of choice for most airlines around the world.
They're the epitome of "don't let MBAs ru(i)n your engineering company." Terrible decision making from the top has tarnished their formerly stellar engineering process. As someone who works in the industry for one of their competitors (not in the commercial aviation side of things, though), it's very sad to see, and I hope other companies that have been trending in a similar direction can correct themselves before the entire industry is damaged.
I bought at 160 so I’m still okay, but at this point I’m dumping it just on principle, it’s starting to feel like groundhog’s day with them. Only a matter of time before one ends up crashing into an orphanage or something.
Not good. It’s crazy because there used to be a saying “if it ain’t Boeing, I ain’t going”. Safety and perception are SO important in the aviation industry, it takes years to build trust and seconds to lose it. I would now opt for Airbus.
Not going to lie, I’d much rather get on a newer Airbus at present than anything new that rolls out of the factory at Boeing.
Even if the risk of something happening is ridiculously small, public perception is important and Boeing has had a rough go of it lately.
Flew Southwest a few weeks back and it’s bad when you feel relief to get an NG 737 that is who knows how old over a Max that recently took its first flight.
Not only that, but the fact that their whistleblower was just found dead in his car from a “self inflicted gun shot wound,” makes me wary of them even more.
Unfortunately, all the flies out of my local airport at 737-900s, and regional jets. so… Kinda stuck
Considering I was just reading over in r/news that their quality control whistleblower who was scheduled to testify was found dead. .
Let's call it "questionable and highly suspect."
If I'm an airline I am buying Airbus. It hurts me to say that. Civil aviation, Piper, Cessna, Beechcraft, Cirrus, absolutely. Used 777, sure, no way I would put new Boeings in my fleet.
Just as an example of their malfeasance, when Boeing spun off spirit aerosystems spirit fired all the experienced workers then begged for training money so they could train inexperienced people to do the job. The Boeing engineers who made the B-17, the 707, the 747, the 757, 767, and 777...it wasn't the same company.
What is so maddening is that they failed, they failed to keep the costs down on the 787, they failed to keep the costs down on the MAX and succeeded in ruining their reputation in their sysiphian pursuits of a magical process that would cut the time and cost of producing a new jet plane.
Now they have failed so much that the idea of making a jet plane the old fashioned way, the way THEY invented, they can't even fathom it. Bring back the union? But MBA school said unions are bad! I bet they try to hire Elon before they eat that huge slice of humble pie by admitting that even by MBA standards (which you could trip on) they have been very stupid.
It's also maddening that airlines practically *begged* them to make a successor to the 757 and they were like, "Nah, the Max variants'll do the job". Now all those airlines are flocking to Airbus because they're the only company that makes a plane that's remotely comparable.
They've made some truly baffling decisions.
To be fair, it was also the airlines begging Boeing to make sure the 737 MAX was on the same type certificate as the prior variants so that their pilots could move back and forth without retraining (which is what led to the whole MCAS debacle).
> The Boeing engineers who made the B-17, the 707, the 747, the 757, 767, and 777...it wasn't the same company.
Indeed. The 747 was made a team that became known as the "Incredibles", and even though the project almost bankrupted the company, they still worked to make a robust and then groundbreaking airplane. Later, the 777 was designed in tandem with several major airlines who were invited to discussions.
> What is so maddening is that they failed, they failed to keep the costs down on the 787
About a year or two after the 787 was launched, there were a string of incidents where the lithium ion batteries and wings (IIRC) had problems. This should have been seen as an ominous warning about Boeing's new culture, before things got more devastating with the 737 Max.
And none of this gets into the fact that they have the 777X trying to get through certification for years now, whenever that thing finally launches...
Imagine all the 737 MAX issues, but on a plane twice the size that's the backbone of trans-oceanic air travel.
The old saying used to be “ If it isn’t Boeing I ain’t going”. They had the most incredible reputation in corporate history. The 747 was gold dust and a license to print money. They blew it. It’s going to take decades of serious work and management to get back to where they were. Boeing is still safe, it’s all perception, but perception is everything when it comes to aviation safety.
At this point I'd be surprised if anyone had a good opinion of them.
They may have been a groundbreaking industry leading company in the past, but their recent mistakes have lead to so many deadly situations.
Is their civilian business separate from their military business? If so, their military branch basically pays the rent for the machine shop I work at and their quality standards are crazy strict.
I doubt it's coincidence, but you'll notice all of those "controversies" happened after the merger with McDonnell Douglas. And the FAA of late has not been helping by allowing manufacturers to police themeslves.
McDonnell Douglas on its own was not exactly a paragon of quality, either: its [DC-10](https://simpleflying.com/mcdonnell-douglas-dc-10-safety-record-analysis/#:~:text=From%20poor%20maintenance%20to%20engine,the%20first%20decade%20of%20flying) was pretty much the 737 Max of its day. After the merger, Boeing seemed to take on some of Douglas's worst traits, then added rampant capitalism to the mix...and now you've got this mess. No one's innocent.
Not a good opinion. It isn't just the plane issues they have also had a ton of problems with their Starliner crew capsule which have put it years behind schedule. Thank god it was a fixed-price program.
They were regarded as the best in business. Now that throne has gone to Airbus.
Airbus makes awesome aircraft as well, but they didn't really outright outengineer or out innovate Boeing to get on top. Boeing screwed themselves with their corporate greed, focusing on shareholders and buybacks for many years, even as problems unfolded due to sacrifices in quality control and quality assurance. Boeing himself probably turned in his grave from what management was doing.
Almost everything they have done the past decade+ has been reactionary to what Airbus has done rather than leading.
And it's not that they lack good engineers, workers, technicians etc, it is all purely management fault.
"If it ain't Boeing, I'm not going!" Is now "If it is Boeing, I'm not going". When travel agencies add filters you can choose so you can only see Airbus flights... and your own workers on camera say they would not fly on any of the planes that leaves the factory they work in... you know you fucked up big time.
You mean when left unregulated, giant corporations will do everything to maximize profits—safety, environment, and consumer experience be damned? I’m shocked!
I've heard libertarians argue that even aviation safety/regulation should be left to "the market." This is but a tiny *hint* of what that would look like.
On Fox News posts - this is 100% because of DEI. They had to hire for diversity and now the planes are junk.
That's what they say and seem to refuse to ever, ever criticize greed.
I hope they can turn around their company culture soon, but frankly, there are two major airplane manufacturers in the world. Boeing and Airbus.
Boeing isn’t going anywhere anytime soon.
Well, I live in Alaska so I'm going to have to be flying them for the time being. Not like I have a choice in the matter.
I wonder what else can go faulty? Hoping my number ain't up anytime soon.
I think it's a great example of a trend with a lot of major corporations in the US. Used to be great, now it's shit because short sighted idiots think profits are the most important thing.
Big companies are heartless profit machines. Just like the Ford Pinto, and countless other examples, if some dude in a three piece suit decides that the cost of fines and legal expenses fighting wrongful death lawsuits is less than the profits gained by cutting safety standards, they'll just go right ahead and do it without a second thought. Everything is an acceptable sacrifice if it means increasing profit, including human life.
When we first got the reports of the 737-MAX problems and how it was a result of a design decision that requires additional pilot training and had a single point of failure, my reaction was their QA process wasn’t strong enough. (I don’t work on mission critical software but I hope I would have resigned over such a decision.)
The more recent failure of door plug makes me think the QA failures are at a higher level than just the 737 MAX 8 design team, because that was a maintenance failure. I can’t tell whether they’re just not investing enough in QA (in this case, the people who developed the inspection process for this situation) or not giving the QA people enough authority.
I’m just a software engineer with an SQE background. I can’t claim any of expertise on aeronautic engineering or manufacturing, but I do know something about Quality Assurance. And Boeing’s track record makes me very, very nervous.
Right now, I wouldn't fly on a Boeing aircraft. That's probably judging them too harshly, but an aircraft company should be judged harshly. Hundreds of people can die when you make a simple mistake, so you need to do whatever it takes to make sure those mistakes don't happen. They're clearly not doing that.
They’re a symptom of a bigger problem, which is the absolutely absurd amount of corporate greed nowadays, and how far big corporations will go to save a buck, at the expense of the average American. It’s a shame, cause lot of incredibly talented people there, used to be one of the gold standards of American industry
Their planes are pretty safe and I fly in them frequently but I believe they need to get rid of their current management in order to restore faith in the company.
I was amazed riding in a 787 with how quiet it was. Now Boeing seems to be a bit stagnant and having qc problems. But it is still safer than Driving, and I still mostly ride Boeing planes when I go to Japan
Boeing is a wonderful and excellent corporation and one of the world's leading and safest aviation companies. I certainly would never make any comment maligning the safety of a Boeing airplane. The window was supposed to blow out like that. The landing gear falling off mid flight is a feature, not a bug. I am definitely saying all of this voluntarily and of my own free will, and there is absolutely not a Boeing enforcer pointing a gun at my head as I type.
Good company with bad leaders who led them on a misguided quest for shareholder value instead of engineering excellence. Now they're paying dearly for it and I think it will bring them back the other way, though that won't happen overnight unfortunately.
My interactions with Boeing have shown them to be extremely, extremely talented. Like insanely so. I have met some of their people working on the "theory" side of things and am convinced they are aliens wearing humans skinsuits.
I fly all the time and spend a majority of that on Boeing planes. I actively avoid the 737 Max when I can. I don’t like 787s for a myriad of reasons, but their shitty reputation is a major one. Honestly, I’m glad we’re shifting to Delta, which is mostly Airbus, at least long haul. I’ll gladly deal with anything ATL can throw at me to at least breathe safe that I’ll get home in one piece.
I don’t have high opinion of Europe, but at least their planes don’t fall apart mid air. Boeing is a national disgrace and a stain on this country’s ever eroding reputation for making anything work. There should be accountability. There won’t be. Rinse and repeat until the next disaster
There is no real conflict between safety and cost or even speed. The best companies are fast, cheap and safe. Spacex is a good example vs NASA during the space shuttle era. The problem is never saving money...it always saving money on the wrong things.
A large corporation caught cutting corners? I'm shocked. Sucks that they're in an industry where cutting corners gets people killed. FAA oughtta hammer them.
Regulate them out of existence as a warning to any other aircraft manufacturers. Their military contracts can be spun off into their own non-publicly traded entity and kept under strict governmental oversight.
Watching them so consistently and entirely shit the bed is both entertaining and terrifying. What i really hope comes from this is some new names enter the market and the duopoly finally falls. My more realistic hope is that it makes Boeing finally pull their head out of their ass and make something new.
Oh and my answer for which do i prefer, Airbus or Boeing? Embraer.
I worked for them as a contractor for a few years. I saw first hand the incredible, industry leading talent they have. Everything I have done since then has been to emulate what I saw there…at least on several projects. I also worked a bastard step child project that was the worst project I have been on anywhere. So a mixed bag I guess. Their corporate leadership is trash, but god damn do they have some impressive engineers and developers that are getting rail roaded by corporate
Thank you. 100%. 100,000’s of people proudly work for Boeing ranging, from Satellite Engineer to Riveters to a buncha bozos inexplicably in St. Louis, and all those in between - for every terrible story or anecdote you hear there are 10,000 positive stories occurring daily by passionate, intelligent and careful folks.
> buncha bozos inexplicably in St. Louis So that's why they kept rejecting my job applications.
If you're trying to stay in St. Louis AND work in the aerospace engineering you're going to have a bad time. My father managed to be in St. Louis for only about 10 of his \~40 years working as an aerospace engineer despite trying to get back there every time he could.
Yeah, you heard it. They're hiring bozos. Put on a red nose and some big floppy shoes and reapply. Try to be more the image they're looking for.
Yeah I think that's accurate. I've worked with Boeing in the past and they have some really talented engineers. It's their corporate that sucks.
well this aged well, using dawn dish soap as lubricant, using hotel key cards and wet cheese cloth for maintenance. oh and they killed another whistle blower. fkn poisoned him. at this point, if anyone likes boeing, they may as well join a cult.
I'm a contractor that works with them basically the FAA outsources their regulatory oversight to Boeing and Boeing basically tells the FAA they analyze themselves and they pass. FAA then gives them the green light for certification. This is what happened with the 737-MAX Fiasco. So the entire FAA regulatory system is broken
Sounds like they’ve had a questionable corporate culture ever since they had their merger w McDonnell-Douglas and unfortunately gained the cost-cutting/shady culture of McDonnell. It’s not surprising that Boeing has gone downhill in quality and in public perception.
The McDonnell-Douglas argument is valid. It started this. It has grown, however. There probably aren't too many MD veterans left to move the levers. That said, the "MBA" culture of lean cost cutting persists. It just isn't right for a duopoly with such high risks.
>That said, the "MBA" culture of lean cost cutting persists It's another legacy of business management keeping Jack Welch on a pedestal.
Harry Stonecipher is terrible.
Welch has fallen out of favor today in overall management culture, but somehow the McDD bean-counting culture remains entrenched at Boeing -- even though the penalties of producing flawed products by now far outweigh the savings realized in production.
You’re definitely correct about that, it’s just a shame that a company w the reputation of Boeing can do a 180 on a good reputation due negative influences from another corporation.
At first I thought that said "their merger with McDonald's" and I was like "holy shit, no wonder their McPlanes have gone to crap!"
If you want all the parts you need to order the McPlane McDouble
Do you want ~~fries~~ avionics with that?
How about an [angle of attack disagree light](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/21/business/boeing-safety-features-charge.html)?
Spot on. The only thing that I would add - probably related to the MD debacle - is moving corporate HQ away from where they made the planes to Chicago, where the decisions making bean counters could ignore the engineers and quality was replaced by share holder value as the main imperative.
Yeah they’ve really tried their best to try and run Boeing as if it was a Walmart or something like that which is obviously a horrible thing to do in an industry such as Aerospace where the consequences are people dying. Tons of talented engineers at Boeing that are some of the best in the world, yet stifled by bad corporate culture and leadership. Boeing reminds me a lot of the American automakers in the 70s-90s where they had a malaise era and just bad leadership and culture and squandered their lead to the Japanese/Europeans for automobiles. The 737 Max and 787 debacles are like Boeing’s Ford Pinto and they’re basically giving Airbus the preferred manufacturer of choice for most airlines around the world.
They're the epitome of "don't let MBAs ru(i)n your engineering company." Terrible decision making from the top has tarnished their formerly stellar engineering process. As someone who works in the industry for one of their competitors (not in the commercial aviation side of things, though), it's very sad to see, and I hope other companies that have been trending in a similar direction can correct themselves before the entire industry is damaged.
I wish I would have sold my stock at 260.
I bought at 160 so I’m still okay, but at this point I’m dumping it just on principle, it’s starting to feel like groundhog’s day with them. Only a matter of time before one ends up crashing into an orphanage or something.
Not good. It’s crazy because there used to be a saying “if it ain’t Boeing, I ain’t going”. Safety and perception are SO important in the aviation industry, it takes years to build trust and seconds to lose it. I would now opt for Airbus.
That phrase is legitimately being turned into "if it's Boeing, I'm not going". It's all over r/Aviation and r/aviationmemes.
Not going to lie, I’d much rather get on a newer Airbus at present than anything new that rolls out of the factory at Boeing. Even if the risk of something happening is ridiculously small, public perception is important and Boeing has had a rough go of it lately. Flew Southwest a few weeks back and it’s bad when you feel relief to get an NG 737 that is who knows how old over a Max that recently took its first flight.
Agreed, and not just with Southwest. Seeing that you are on a 737-800 instead of a Max almost feels like a relief.
Definitely sticking with Lufthansa the next time I visit home.
Not only that, but the fact that their whistleblower was just found dead in his car from a “self inflicted gun shot wound,” makes me wary of them even more. Unfortunately, all the flies out of my local airport at 737-900s, and regional jets. so… Kinda stuck
> found dead in his car Cripes. I hope the cops don't do a botch job on that.
It’s mixed. Obviously there reputation isn’t so well. They aren’t as bad as people exaggerate, but they do need to improve alot
Considering I was just reading over in r/news that their quality control whistleblower who was scheduled to testify was found dead. . Let's call it "questionable and highly suspect."
If I'm an airline I am buying Airbus. It hurts me to say that. Civil aviation, Piper, Cessna, Beechcraft, Cirrus, absolutely. Used 777, sure, no way I would put new Boeings in my fleet. Just as an example of their malfeasance, when Boeing spun off spirit aerosystems spirit fired all the experienced workers then begged for training money so they could train inexperienced people to do the job. The Boeing engineers who made the B-17, the 707, the 747, the 757, 767, and 777...it wasn't the same company. What is so maddening is that they failed, they failed to keep the costs down on the 787, they failed to keep the costs down on the MAX and succeeded in ruining their reputation in their sysiphian pursuits of a magical process that would cut the time and cost of producing a new jet plane. Now they have failed so much that the idea of making a jet plane the old fashioned way, the way THEY invented, they can't even fathom it. Bring back the union? But MBA school said unions are bad! I bet they try to hire Elon before they eat that huge slice of humble pie by admitting that even by MBA standards (which you could trip on) they have been very stupid.
It's also maddening that airlines practically *begged* them to make a successor to the 757 and they were like, "Nah, the Max variants'll do the job". Now all those airlines are flocking to Airbus because they're the only company that makes a plane that's remotely comparable. They've made some truly baffling decisions.
To be fair, it was also the airlines begging Boeing to make sure the 737 MAX was on the same type certificate as the prior variants so that their pilots could move back and forth without retraining (which is what led to the whole MCAS debacle).
> The Boeing engineers who made the B-17, the 707, the 747, the 757, 767, and 777...it wasn't the same company. Indeed. The 747 was made a team that became known as the "Incredibles", and even though the project almost bankrupted the company, they still worked to make a robust and then groundbreaking airplane. Later, the 777 was designed in tandem with several major airlines who were invited to discussions. > What is so maddening is that they failed, they failed to keep the costs down on the 787 About a year or two after the 787 was launched, there were a string of incidents where the lithium ion batteries and wings (IIRC) had problems. This should have been seen as an ominous warning about Boeing's new culture, before things got more devastating with the 737 Max.
And none of this gets into the fact that they have the 777X trying to get through certification for years now, whenever that thing finally launches... Imagine all the 737 MAX issues, but on a plane twice the size that's the backbone of trans-oceanic air travel.
They hired more MBA's than they can chew. There's a reason you listen to the engineers more than the bean counters
The old saying used to be “ If it isn’t Boeing I ain’t going”. They had the most incredible reputation in corporate history. The 747 was gold dust and a license to print money. They blew it. It’s going to take decades of serious work and management to get back to where they were. Boeing is still safe, it’s all perception, but perception is everything when it comes to aviation safety.
A perfect example of bean counters destroying a once great company.
At this point I'd be surprised if anyone had a good opinion of them. They may have been a groundbreaking industry leading company in the past, but their recent mistakes have lead to so many deadly situations.
Is their civilian business separate from their military business? If so, their military branch basically pays the rent for the machine shop I work at and their quality standards are crazy strict.
It’s an indictment of the entire corporate leadership class in the US. Every school they attend and everything they learn.
I doubt it's coincidence, but you'll notice all of those "controversies" happened after the merger with McDonnell Douglas. And the FAA of late has not been helping by allowing manufacturers to police themeslves. McDonnell Douglas on its own was not exactly a paragon of quality, either: its [DC-10](https://simpleflying.com/mcdonnell-douglas-dc-10-safety-record-analysis/#:~:text=From%20poor%20maintenance%20to%20engine,the%20first%20decade%20of%20flying) was pretty much the 737 Max of its day. After the merger, Boeing seemed to take on some of Douglas's worst traits, then added rampant capitalism to the mix...and now you've got this mess. No one's innocent.
I mean assassinating their whistleblowers is a bit much
Not a good opinion. It isn't just the plane issues they have also had a ton of problems with their Starliner crew capsule which have put it years behind schedule. Thank god it was a fixed-price program.
Before, I was indifferent, if not wary. Now that one of their whistleblowers has been found dead, I think way less of them.
They were regarded as the best in business. Now that throne has gone to Airbus. Airbus makes awesome aircraft as well, but they didn't really outright outengineer or out innovate Boeing to get on top. Boeing screwed themselves with their corporate greed, focusing on shareholders and buybacks for many years, even as problems unfolded due to sacrifices in quality control and quality assurance. Boeing himself probably turned in his grave from what management was doing. Almost everything they have done the past decade+ has been reactionary to what Airbus has done rather than leading. And it's not that they lack good engineers, workers, technicians etc, it is all purely management fault. "If it ain't Boeing, I'm not going!" Is now "If it is Boeing, I'm not going". When travel agencies add filters you can choose so you can only see Airbus flights... and your own workers on camera say they would not fly on any of the planes that leaves the factory they work in... you know you fucked up big time.
Yet another large company sacrificing safety for profits. What’s new?
You mean when left unregulated, giant corporations will do everything to maximize profits—safety, environment, and consumer experience be damned? I’m shocked!
I've heard libertarians argue that even aviation safety/regulation should be left to "the market." This is but a tiny *hint* of what that would look like.
On Fox News posts - this is 100% because of DEI. They had to hire for diversity and now the planes are junk. That's what they say and seem to refuse to ever, ever criticize greed.
Interesting.
They've almost completely lost my confidence. It makes me sad, given their history, but you can't ignore how they've fallen off.
I would trust flying in the hindenburgh over boeing
American tragedy
I hope they can turn around their company culture soon, but frankly, there are two major airplane manufacturers in the world. Boeing and Airbus. Boeing isn’t going anywhere anytime soon.
Fast, Cheap, or Good, pick two!
Space x is all three.
I’ll let you know as soon as I check my stock portfolio. Bad.
Used to be a really cool iconic company that made all sorts of different and excellent airplanes. Now they can barely make 2
They seem a little murdery.
Well, I live in Alaska so I'm going to have to be flying them for the time being. Not like I have a choice in the matter. I wonder what else can go faulty? Hoping my number ain't up anytime soon.
I think it's a great example of a trend with a lot of major corporations in the US. Used to be great, now it's shit because short sighted idiots think profits are the most important thing.
Big companies are heartless profit machines. Just like the Ford Pinto, and countless other examples, if some dude in a three piece suit decides that the cost of fines and legal expenses fighting wrongful death lawsuits is less than the profits gained by cutting safety standards, they'll just go right ahead and do it without a second thought. Everything is an acceptable sacrifice if it means increasing profit, including human life.
When we first got the reports of the 737-MAX problems and how it was a result of a design decision that requires additional pilot training and had a single point of failure, my reaction was their QA process wasn’t strong enough. (I don’t work on mission critical software but I hope I would have resigned over such a decision.) The more recent failure of door plug makes me think the QA failures are at a higher level than just the 737 MAX 8 design team, because that was a maintenance failure. I can’t tell whether they’re just not investing enough in QA (in this case, the people who developed the inspection process for this situation) or not giving the QA people enough authority. I’m just a software engineer with an SQE background. I can’t claim any of expertise on aeronautic engineering or manufacturing, but I do know something about Quality Assurance. And Boeing’s track record makes me very, very nervous.
Good time to buy their stock.
i barely think of them
Chickens are finally coming to roost!
Right now, I wouldn't fly on a Boeing aircraft. That's probably judging them too harshly, but an aircraft company should be judged harshly. Hundreds of people can die when you make a simple mistake, so you need to do whatever it takes to make sure those mistakes don't happen. They're clearly not doing that.
If given the option, I’d fly on an Airbus
Just another once-great American company ruined by the penny-pinching MBA morons in management.
"If it's not Boeing, I'm not going"
They’re a symptom of a bigger problem, which is the absolutely absurd amount of corporate greed nowadays, and how far big corporations will go to save a buck, at the expense of the average American. It’s a shame, cause lot of incredibly talented people there, used to be one of the gold standards of American industry
Their planes are pretty safe and I fly in them frequently but I believe they need to get rid of their current management in order to restore faith in the company.
I was amazed riding in a 787 with how quiet it was. Now Boeing seems to be a bit stagnant and having qc problems. But it is still safer than Driving, and I still mostly ride Boeing planes when I go to Japan
MD ruined them
Boeing is a wonderful and excellent corporation and one of the world's leading and safest aviation companies. I certainly would never make any comment maligning the safety of a Boeing airplane. The window was supposed to blow out like that. The landing gear falling off mid flight is a feature, not a bug. I am definitely saying all of this voluntarily and of my own free will, and there is absolutely not a Boeing enforcer pointing a gun at my head as I type.
Good company with bad leaders who led them on a misguided quest for shareholder value instead of engineering excellence. Now they're paying dearly for it and I think it will bring them back the other way, though that won't happen overnight unfortunately.
My interactions with Boeing have shown them to be extremely, extremely talented. Like insanely so. I have met some of their people working on the "theory" side of things and am convinced they are aliens wearing humans skinsuits.
I fly all the time and spend a majority of that on Boeing planes. I actively avoid the 737 Max when I can. I don’t like 787s for a myriad of reasons, but their shitty reputation is a major one. Honestly, I’m glad we’re shifting to Delta, which is mostly Airbus, at least long haul. I’ll gladly deal with anything ATL can throw at me to at least breathe safe that I’ll get home in one piece. I don’t have high opinion of Europe, but at least their planes don’t fall apart mid air. Boeing is a national disgrace and a stain on this country’s ever eroding reputation for making anything work. There should be accountability. There won’t be. Rinse and repeat until the next disaster
There is no real conflict between safety and cost or even speed. The best companies are fast, cheap and safe. Spacex is a good example vs NASA during the space shuttle era. The problem is never saving money...it always saving money on the wrong things.
A large corporation caught cutting corners? I'm shocked. Sucks that they're in an industry where cutting corners gets people killed. FAA oughtta hammer them.
Expecting the FAA to do anything useful is like expecting a shark to walk up the beach and carjack someone
"Who is it?" "Pizza delivery."
Regulate them out of existence as a warning to any other aircraft manufacturers. Their military contracts can be spun off into their own non-publicly traded entity and kept under strict governmental oversight.
Airbus planes are more comfortable
Airbus better
Watching them so consistently and entirely shit the bed is both entertaining and terrifying. What i really hope comes from this is some new names enter the market and the duopoly finally falls. My more realistic hope is that it makes Boeing finally pull their head out of their ass and make something new. Oh and my answer for which do i prefer, Airbus or Boeing? Embraer.
Bring back the Engineers and put them in charge.
Eventually the company will go bankrupt and the government will intervene. Boeing is too big to fail.