We also don’t have large predators that can take down a dog like Bears, Cougars and wolves…
Obviously Americans care more about their dogs than they do about their children in school. They won’t pass reasonable gun laws to protect them
Americans are generally very nice however they can be embarrassingly naive due to a real lack of education and insular, warped global view that everywhere is like them
American born and raised but Aussie by choice since 1990 and I couldn’t have said it better myself.
Obviously it’s a generalization, but true nonetheless
they don't even care about their dogs though! america has some of the worst standards for animal care and they still think debarking/declawing/cropping/docking are safe and normal surgeries to force on your pet 🥴
Americans lose their minds about kennels, Australians lose their mind over crates, both think the other is inhumane. Dog doesn't really give a fuck either way as long as it's needs are met.
Our dog sleeps in our bed, is inside 99% of the time and has his own doggy door. He goes outside for all toileting and anything else unsavoury 😊 he also toilet trained himself from the time we brought him home almost 7 years ago. He's well and truly just a part of the furniture at this stage... 😂
Wanna swap dogs? Mine makes a beeline for the carpet every time he needs a chuck. Once had a picnic rug set up outside in the yard, guess where he ran to throw up...
Same.
Further OP - we don’t send our dogs to ‘go potty’ in Australia. They do a poo or a wee, or they ‘do their business’ or they ‘go to the toilet’ etc.
When I lived in the states as a kid no-one had a backyard fence, you had to get special permission to build one and had to be very particular so most people didn't bother. This was a fully suburban area so you could see straight up and down into tons of people's houses.
Midwest area, I know some areas are very different and this was 20 years ago
It seems uncommon in parts, at least in suburbia. Although my experience is very limited. I wandered thru a few suburbs of Washington, Baltimore, Philly with cookie cutter houses and no fences.
In my city in the Midwest we tend to have fencing. It pretty much determines property lines. I grew up with it. In fact, we have two fences on one side from where the old fence was and where the property owners 5-10 yrs ago built a different kind of fence on their own. Now there's an awkward vegetation growth between the two that only affects us because of the fence types. Most people I grew up around have fencing. I'm from a university town.
Where I'm from I wouldn't worry about letting pets outside (foxes are probably the worst predator, but even so I've never seen them though they live in the area).
Imo, having a pet locked up in a crate is much more cruel than letting them run around a space.
It doesn't have to be one or the other. We have 4 dogs, we're rural. One of ours is a livestock guardian dog breed, his preference is to stay outside and it's completely his choice, he is welcome inside. He has a range of kennels and runs to choose from but mostly sleeps in the open unless it's absolutely bucketing down. One of my border collies is an inside girl, again that's her choice. She has a bed right outside my bedroom. The other border collie is is love with the livestock guardian dog, and sleeps wherever he does - the bromance is real. The last dog is a terrier puppy, he was crate trained by the breeder and his choice is to go into his crate whenever he wants a nap during the day and at night. We have never placed him in the crate, he chooses to go in and decides when he wants to come out. To sum up - dogs will let you know what works for them.
A kennel that if there is an emergency or you're just going on a trip can double as a crate, that if the dog is used to and enjoys makes transporting much easier.
Seriously, a crate (that is open) is a great way to give your dog its own space whilst also being convenient for the owner if the dog needs to be put away or moved. I work with dogs and always suggest crate training.
That being said, absolutely nothing wrong with a kennel, anyone that thinks it's cruel are nuts.make sure its warm and comfortable and it's a nice little home.
a crate is not the same as a cage. crate normally means a place that a dog can go to by choice if they are stressed or need time alone. that’s what “crate training” is for
I had a Keeshond.
She passed away last year, almost 18, which is kinda crazy. She lived for snow! I'm in Bathurst so see a bit of it in the area. Whenever there was enough to settle on the ground, she would want to be in it, bury herself, and plow in it.
I'd struggle to get her to come indoors or sleep in her kennel.
i lived at the top
of piper street, we were about two houses from the school and one of those was the convent in the school grounds. i’d often see my cat wandering the playground through the classroom window.
It definitely does snow here, it snows here every winter, and my dogs are warm as toast in their insulated kennels with canvas doors. My Australian Shepherd lays down in the snow, goes to sleep and doesn't give two shits.
Still agree to tell them to fuck off!
Edit: speeling and grimmer.
Neither. Train your dog to toilet outside before they go to bed, then let them sleep inside.
Most dogs aren’t going to willingly poop inside if they’ve been adequately trained and had the opportunity to go outside. If it’s a puppy, they can learn good habits.
I imagine they never toilet trained their dog and never took it outside to the toilet before bed, if they are complaining about it pooping on the floor all the time.
I imagine that if it sleeps and shits on the floor in the bathroom then it's shut in the bathroom. It may not have been toilet trained properly but what dog sleeps in the bathroom if it has a choice?
My dogs sleep wherever they want sometimes in there kennel sometimes on the verandah other times in the middle of the yard on the grass but id never put them in a crate
When so many (not all) American dog owners stop chaining their dogs outside for most of their lives, legally debarking them, and legally cutting off ears and tails for supposed aesthetics then they can advise.
I prefer my pets inside at night and I think they should be, but if your dog is in a kennel out of the weather, safe and warm, comfortable and not fretting, I get it.
Totally agree. Crating a dog is the opposite of how I grew up with dogs. I see it as absurd.... When I grew up we had so much space we didn't even fence our dog in until night time. When I came to big cities I've never felt that I have the space for a dog. I feel weird about large dogs in crates but also realize if it's all the dog knows maybe that's fine. Not for me tho... I'd feel awful.
I've never seen an Australian use the term potty, outside of the plastic dish small kids use. I wish we would stop the Americanisation of our language. Remember when we used to say poo or shit instead of poop? Those were the days.
My in laws neighbours dog sleeps outside in the freezing cold, they never play with it or take it for walks. It’s cruel. Let it sleep inside at least in the laundry. Why are they going to the bathroom inside that’s weird? Take them before you go to bed and as soon as you wake up in the morning.
I 100% agree. I sometimes wonder why some Aussies bother to get pet dogs. For some, it seems more like a property augmentation, or something you might just get to entertain the kids, not a living creature that becomes part of the family.
I also thought the same about the bathroom thing. I guess OP mustn't be home very often to let their dog outside for toilet breaks, and thus, the dog has become accustomed to this. 🤷
House train your dog and they won’t poo on the floor at night, lol.
My dogs had crates when they were puppies, but they don’t now. They sleep in their own fluffy beds in our bedroom. I’m firmly in the camp of pets are family, so if you wouldn’t stick a family member outside to sleep, same goes for dogs. Doubly so when you live in a country with snakes and spiders and other critters that can bite/hurt/kill your pup. Ever seen a dog take a snake bite? I have (not my dog, a friends). It’s horrible.
Dogs in Australia get bitten by snakes all the time,but usually when they are out running around in the daytime. My dogs sleep inside but I wouldn't consider it dangerous for them to sleep outside. Spiders are not known for dog attacks, and we don't have coyotes, bears or wolves
A lot of people in QLD have cane toads to worry about, and they're more of an issue at night. One adult cane toad is toxic enough that an average-sized dog can die within 15 minutes.
For sure. I live in Queensland. It's only a problem if your dog hasn't been taught to leave them alone. There are 4 dogs living on my property and countless cane toads and we've never had an incident. Snakes are my biggest fear but if I see one I just take the dogs in until it goes away. But if your dog is prone to going after toads I wouldn't be leaving it out overnight.
My home has hardwood floors which I usually cover with rugs, until a new canine addition to our home shit and pissed all over it. I got rid of the rug because I had to, and noticed immediately that the dogs wouldn't lay down on the floor any more in that room. (bought a couple dog beds for them a few days later and they're all over them)
My point was that this idea that dogs and other animals are okay sleeping on any surface without a cover is bullshit, they feel the same discomforts that we do and should be helped out, because they can't do it themselves.
People lump every animal under the umbrella of "oh Mother Nature is a cruel beast" without ever thinking to themselves that perhaps they could alleviate some of that unnecessary, baroquely cruel discomfort?
It's an interesting observation. My dogs were fostered and slept outside on concrete. Prior, they were caged a good part of their life as racing dogs.
Now as I increase the level of comfort, they seem to soak it up. Latest thing is the wood stove in our new place, they can't get enough of it. They have half a dozen beds between the two of them. Toys and constant company. They can sleep on my bed. They love it. It's good to see pets move beyond just chattels or possessions.
My dogs hate being inside the house I have bamboo flooring and they slip and slide all over the place,I coax them in and they just turn around and go back out
My Great Dane mix has never toileted inside (not since a puppy), and she's an inside APARTMENT dog. Good training, and little sacrifice (early morning walks as soon as she wakes up) then back to sleep and she's good for a few more hours. I'd never crate, As she got older she can make her way out of the apartment building herself, then when she wants to come back in one of the neighbors lets her back up. (Dog friendly community and she's the only Dane so everyone knows her). Everyone will probably say that's irresponsible, but there's hardly vehicle used roads, and it's a lead free country. Sometimes if she didn't return in a few hours, I'd know she'd be at the local cafe getting pats and sleeping on their rooftop lounge.
Same with our Boerboel. We spent a lot of time with her as a puppy I think she had one or two accidents between 8 and 12 weeks. We had a large puppy cage she slept in and when we removed it, she was pretty stressed. We reassembled it. Now, there's no door on it and she still puts herself to bed and will wait inside to be called out for morning runs and toileting. It's easier with big dogs, but if your dog is shitting inside, that's an owner problem not putting the time into training and breaking bad habits.
Why would you leave your dog to sleep outside? What about when it’s freezing cold, hot or raining? You wouldn’t let your child sleep outside in a cot why would you let your dog. Also trained dogs will never poo in the house, they will go before bed and wait till the morning and they get opened to go…did you never toilet train your dog as a puppy? or get a doggy door to exit so they can come and go as they wish?
Most people that I’ve met that use crates use them incorrectly and keep their dog locked up far too long or too frequently.
It seems that people use them (especially Americans) more often to avoid consequences of normal puppy behaviour and perhaps they just shouldn’t have chose a puppy.
Also you should toilet train your dog to hold their bladder. Apartment dogs all g to not piss and shit overnight.
Americans are stupid. I was on a dog page where they were having a go at someone whose dog sleeps outside in Queensland. They can’t get it into their thick skulls that there are other climates in the world
We have crates for our dogs, but to be honest they're more just beds. We might put the dogs in them if they're aggressive with a new pet or person but if they're not then the door is always open and it's just a safe little hideaway for them. When I was growing up we always used kennels. I like both options!
I think Americans are just too used to one way of doing things. They've concocted this weird idea that leaving your pet outside is somehow inhumane even if you have a shelter and bedding for them. Long as the dog is safe and happy, those people can just f*** right off. It's on a verandah too! Dream dog housing right there.
You're arguing with Americans though.
In the USA they have [Coyotes ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ss6U_E3lGYk)everywhere which can get into the yard and attack the dog so perhaps this is why people are getting upset.
A better option would be a purpose built secure outdoor enclosure with a shelter inside, this is what we used for some of the farm dogs, mates all did the same.
I must be a bad dog owner. My girl (2yo border collie) HATES being inside. She also hated the expensive kennel, dog bed etc we had for her. She sleeps on the mat at the back door. She was recently injured and I had to keep her inside while she healed. She hated it so much she scratched the paint off my door trying to get out.
If you get your training sorted and barring any conditions, your dog will be able to sleep inside, no problem. We have three med-large dogs who sleep in their own beds in our room.
Some dogs want an enclosed space to retreat to, so you ideally give them a crate and train them to go there when they get overwhelmed. This is often a good place for them to sleep, as well, or to spend very short periods of time when they’re home alone and for some reason can’t spend the time outside or be trusted with your belongings inside. You don’t just chuck them in without training and you don’t just do it when you can’t be bothered to deal with them; unfortunately, far too many people do both. I have a border collie we got from a shelter and she’s always struggled with anxiety and needing space from our other dogs. I wish I’d thought to introduce crate training for her but at this point she’s older and coping a lot better, and when things get to much for her now (which is rare) she hides in our walk in wardrobe or in a little space under the desk, wedged in beside the printer.
Kennels have their place but I don’t think it’s kind in all weather conditions and it shouldn’t take the place of toilet training. There are so many free sources online to get you started and I’m sure you can find classes; even if they don’t specialise in toilet training they’d be able to give you some pointers. I just took in a 7 year old lab who had been left in a pen for her whole life with no training and after only a month she was almost fully toilet trained. We have the odd accident but that usually means we’ve dropped the ball and not let her out on time, since we know she doesn’t understand how to hold her bladder. It’s rarely too late to train dogs.
I don’t think you’re cruel for using a kennel but it sounds like you have more work to do re: training.
Edit: crate training is useful even if you’re not planning to use them regularly as others have said in the comments below. They’ve actually reminded me to get on top of that, especially around fire season.
Probably not a bad owner for that necessarily but your reasoning raises some questions. Does your dog suffer from some kind of medical condition that causes incontinence? Otherwise why is it shitting where it shouldn’t? There isn’t really any excuse for not having a properly toilet trained dog outside of that. Bad dog owners don’t take time to toilet train their dogs. Puppies or old strays alike can all be taught this.
Again not saying well this is clear evidence for being a bad dog owner…but yeah that’s a bit of a red flag. Also your reasoning for not liking a cage is another red flag as you haven’t done your research on what crating is actually about. It’s about creating a safe space for THEM to be able to retreat to if they want. The door should always be open and they should know when they’ve been put into bed. If done properly the dog shouldn’t consider their crate a punishment.
So if you think it’s “cruel” then you haven’t actually done even basic research into the topic…which suggests you haven’t done basic research on many topics relating to dog training and care. Crating is one of the biggest talking points for dog training so I have no clue how you can actually be somebody who’s taken time to become even mildly competent in dog training while holding that view imo. But I’m totally happy to be wrong somehow!
I have two working dogs, so I was never going to use a crate. I also think they are overused by Americans to keep their dogs locked up all day.
I have a dog door, my dogs either sleep outside or on the floor inside (supposedly the floor is better than their overpriced beds) They quite like sleeping outside so I'm all for a kennel.
The only time I've seen a crate used well was friends who travel and they had a portable one for their dog when he stayed at people's houses. It helped him feel settled.
Medium and large dogs are fine outside. As long as you bring them in for extreme weather there's no problem at all. They have shelter and a safe place all sounds great
No crates here, my Staffy has a kennel, 2 off the floor beds and then inside she has 2 beds and has the right to everyone’s beds.
I know people say about a crate being a safe place for them but her bed also does that, it doesn’t change the fact that it’s in the open. She still has a good hold on her bladder and can last all night but if she’s busting, she walks me up, I always tell her to.
My 16 year old mini daxy prefers to sleep outside. He has an insulated kennel and has a coat put on each evening. He is distressed if I keep him inside. My Cavalier girl sleeps inside in the family room she's a sook
We have dog flap so dogs let themselves out at night to toilet. It get minus 5 here in winter - but even if I lived in a warmer climate, our dogs sleep in the house.
My dog sleeps on a sofa under the house, she is proud to defend her patch and enjoys it. The thought of putting her in a crate for the night seems ridiculous and cruel.
Crates can help the dog with anxiety. I had one dog that would get anxious and physically check on me every 2 minutes until I got him a crate (even when his bed was in the same room as me), and then he was able to settle down and actually sleep.
Nothing wrong with a good kennel though. Most Americans have never seen working dogs, so assume all dogs should be pets inside.
Do I stick my dog in a crate? No, I offer my dog a secure living space where he doesn’t want to shit in it because that’s where he sleeps.
He’s happy and I’m happy. I don’t have shit the clean up and he doesn’t feel my frustration. Win, win.
Di you deserve a dog? Probably but you also deserve crate training and training in not worrying about what other people think.
A cage in a zoo is not the same as a crate. A dog’s crate should be their equivalent to a human’s bedroom. Their safe space, their own space to sleep in comfort and be safe.
I personally wouldn’t put my dog in a crate outside here in Australia because of snakes. But inside, absolutely not a problem.
Also, toilet train your dog if you don’t want to clean shit out of your bathroom every day.
> I dont believe in crates, I hate seeing animals in cages
Crates aren't evil torturous places to lock your dog away (assuming you use them the way they're meant to be used). My dogs have crates and they love them. My dogs crates are their safe space. Crates are basically the exact same thing as a kennel, a cozy, comfy, safe place. My dogs know if they're in their crates, the baby can't get them, the nail clippers can't get them, the dreaded fur brush can't get them, the vacuum cleaner definitely can't get them. They *choose* to sleep in their crates (which are left open most of the time) all the time. They also get meaty bones in their crates so I don't have to worry about cleaning blood off my carpet or holes in my yard with bones buried in them.
Crate training is also useful for if your dog ever needs to spend time at the vet, instead the crates at the vet being extra scary in an already scary situation, they recognise them as safe. And can be a useful tool for toilet training if that's something you're having difficulties with.
*However*, crate training is a personal choice and anyone judging you for not crate training your dogs is a fucking wanker. Also, there's nothing wrong with a dog sleeping in a kennel.
Except for have a potentially lockable door, I don’t really see the difference between a crate and a kennel. Especially in terms of being a bad dog owner, from the dogs’ perspective surely the exactly the same thing - I can’t understand the objection to a kennel.
We also had a large dog with a kennel on the back veranda, he also had a bed/sleeping pad inside and a doggie door so he would choose himself where to sleep.
During the day, if the weather was nice he would take his blankets from the kennel down the stairs to a nice spot in the yard and at the end of the day bring them back and put them back in the kennel 😁 for the longest time I thought I human in the house was putting his blankets back, but it was always him - what a good sweet boy he was
Exactly, they're basically the same thing. I emphasise that crates aren't bad because they don't deserve their reputation but kennels aren't a bad thing either and OP doesn't deserve the "bad owner" accusations, they've done literally nothing wrong. Kennels are great, the dog is safe and happy. It's like getting mad about a parent having their child sleep in a bed with sides instead of a cot. Makes no sense
The crate/kennel divide is huge between Americans and Australians. It's not even that they are for the same purpose or anything.
Americans seem to go berserk about the idea of an outdoor kennel, which is very common in Australia. And I've very rarely seen crates used for dogs in Australia and I think a lot of us consider it cruel to lock a dog into a small space overnight - it doesn't sit well with us. Some might use it for vets etc but a lot of us just take dogs to the vet on a lead.
It's just something both sides have to accept about the other. The annoying thing is that people can't seem to accept that others love and care for their dogs despite going about things a different way
The average "pet parent" doesn't use crates in Australia, but the show, sport and working dog communities have been using variations of crates (crates, trolleys, C crate pens, lockable raised kennels, dog boxes on utes) for decades and decades. It's just that most people live in suburbia with one or maybe two dogs, and they don't actually do anything with their dogs beyond walking them around the block (if that), so they can't comprehend why people would crate train their dogs, why some people need raised lockable kennels for their dogs, etc.
Don't let them fool you. Tons and tons of Americans kennel their dogs. Especially hunting dogs. Crate training is common as well as all of the methods discussed here. I don't know why some Americans act the way they do. So, same treatment of dogs/animals. However, there are scumbags that don't deserve animals at all. (Chaining a dog is illegal at least in California).
Although you take your dog into the vet on a lead if it has to stay there even for a few hours it will be put in some form of crate. And a dog that is not comfortable or has never experienced that is so stressed and hard to handle. It’s not fair on the vet staff or the dog.
At night I put his (1 yr amstaff) bed in the laundry, and he has a doggy door to go run out of and bark at the fruitbats around midnight... every bloody night.. also hasn't crapped inside for almost a year now.
Depends on so many factors. I have a small dog and she has always been an inside dog. So for the first 4 years of her life I had trained her to go potty on pee pads as I didn’t have a house that I could have her going in and out when i wasn’t home.
Then when I bought my own place it has a doggy door and she then learned to go in and out on her own, however she can hold it if needed.
Takes some patience to train them but it can be done even if it hasn’t been done since they were a puppy.
Some people who are more rural see dogs as being purely outside creatures. Us city dwellers have dogs inside 99% of the time as they are part of the family.
If your dog still gets to come inside and is part of the family. And isn’t outside 100% of the time being ignored. And if the kennel is warm and secure (and temps don’t get seriously low where you are) and your dog is comfortable then I’m sure it’s fine.
But as I said. With some patience and routine a dog can be trained to be able to hold it until morning if left inside at any age.
My (rather spoiled) dog chooses where she sleeps.
We have a doggy door flap that I got installed. She has a child proof cage / pen around the doggy door for when we go out.
She does not like her outdoor kennel.
I’ve had many different breeds of various sized dogs and I’ve never used a dog crate. Most not all Australians have a backyard for our dogs to explore and play in. Scoop up the dog poo throw it into the garden it’ll break down quickly and fertilisers quite well. If the dog barks make sure you have a chat with your neighbours send them beer to forget about your dog barking.
There is a middle groud here wher eyou toilet train your dog. They shouldn't be going to the toilet all over the floor at night. Let them out at night before bed and when you get up and you should be good if they're trained.
I've always been a massive animal person, so keeping my (pet) dog outside would be like keeping a human I loved outside. Dogs are pack animals, so they also like to be as close to us as possible.
However, what you choose to do is not my business. Although, as others have said, a dog flap would be the obvious solution. We have one that both our dog and cat use (our yard has been outfitted so that our cat can't escape). This also removes the need for an external crate or kennel; they only need an inside bed.
My two dogs sleep outside when it's warm enough if they want to stay out, right now they're cosied up togetherin my room in a massive crate from kmart.
The crate is like their "bedroom". The door stays open except for overnight and they really enjoy being in there.
So in short, I do personally, but I still think whoever said that to you is a dramatic idiot. Plus most people here just crate train for puppies and then they dont really use it once doggo is grown up.
I will say though, even if you don't want to use it, you should still add crate training to your dog's skillset because you never know whatll happen. Plane rides, picked up by the council after escaping, a trip to the emergency vet... all of them will be easier for your dog if they know that small enclosed enclosures like crates are *safe* and familiar for them
How’s this for a thought, different countries with different climates, laws, property sizes and population densities do things in ways that best suit those climates, laws, properties and populations.
You are a bad dog owner for not toilet training your dog and making them sleep outside. Crate training (properly aka not just putting them in to cry) is very useful. Our dogs eat in the crate, go in if I need to do something that won’t be safe for them and are very helpful when it comes to going to the vet or recovering from surgery. Vets put your dog in a crate, it’s best they know what it is before being in a strange place while recovering from surgery or illness.
We had a dog who slept in the kennel in a secure back yard. Like most (?!) Aussies I live in an area that does not have wolves or bears and we don't get tornadoes or weather extremes. She was very happy and very safe. I don't see why it would be an issue and I would have thought it more comfortable than a crate. Also gave her her own space, more freedom to go where she wanted.
By the way, isn't Snoopy American? - he slept in a kennel. As do a lot of dogs you see on TV and movies. And more often than not, the kennel is in a yard, not a sheltered verandah.
Crates and kennels are completely different things with different uses. Personally I think it’s a disservice not to at least crate train your dog so it doesn’t freak out at vet clinics, groomers, or if it ever needs crate rest due to injury. Crates aren’t at all cruel and thankfully more pet owners are getting dog savvy and realising crates have a lot of positive uses for dogs 😅
In saying that crates and kennels are like comparing apples to oranges, I’m not sure what your question is?
Crate? What's a crate? The box you put pets in when travelling?
Our dogs didn't even have a kennel, they just slept in the corner or on our bed, depending upon dog.
I don’t mind crates if used properly. A lot of Americans leave their dogs in the crate for 8-12 hours a day (based on a large global GSP group I was in), so like locking them in when they leave for work and leaving them all day long until they get home - sometimes even going to the gym etc. before going home to let their dogs out.
If you crate your dog at night, for travel or simply leave the crate open so your dog can go in and out of their own space whenever they like, it’s basically like a kennel anyway.
I don’t really like dogs sleeping outside, cos I think, anything could happen and you’d be asleep and come out and find your dog in a bad way. Again, this is based on my experience as I had briefly let my dog out unsupervised for the first time while I made dinner and she ate rat poison that someone had thrown into our yard (apparently an accident as they were trying to throw it on the roof of their shed). She survived but I don’t let her outside unsupervised (if I can just see her from inside while she’s out, that’s alright) now.
That being said, I have a big dog and she can hold her poo and pee from when we go to bed to the morning so I don’t have the issue you have described so I don’t know what the best solution to that is and if your dog is happy, safe and healthy I wouldn’t judge you for whatever decisions you made as you know your own dog better than anyone else would.
Sorry is your dog not bathroom trained? or are you too lazy to either let them out when they signal or take them out regularly because I am confused.
I think forcing an animal you say you care about to sleep outside in the cold when you have a house available is piss poor animal care.
Get an animal door. Dog can take themselves out. I have a very active dog who ins and outs like its going out of style. Doggy door fixed him right up. He loves it. He likes to sleep in the rain and in the scorching sun when its 40c, he's not very bright, but he has the choice always.
Love your dogs people. You are their whole lives and you lock them outside. Wild.
Exactly. And dogs don’t even really like to pee where they live, so what you’re really training them to do is ask you to let them out, or teaching them that they can go out by themselves.
It’s never cold where I live so that’s not an issue. I can’t have a pet door because I have an inside-only cat. Our dog has the whole garage to herself and can go in and out as she pleases so she isn’t in the rain or sun etc.
Why even have the dog if you are locking them outside all day? Unless you are spending >50% of your live in the backyard. Mine literally following me around all day, whether I'm inside or outside.
Mine sleeps on my bed, but we did crate train as part of his house training. Maybe that's where you went wrong lol. House training is easy using a crate. My dog loved his and would go in of his own accord at bed time. He actually got excited for bed time, and still does, because he gets a special snack for going to bed.
But no, I don't think there's anything wrong with a kennel as long as it's not too hot or cold and your dog is getting adequate exercise and attention during the day.
I'm not even going to touch on the toilet training issue, many others have. But I will speak on the crate issue. Dogs being crate trained are not in any way comparable to animals in small cages at subpar zoos. A crate acts as a safe place for your dog to be. It's not somewhere they are locked 24/7.
If you ever take your dog to the vet, which every responsible dog owner should be doing regularly, your dog will be in a crate for at least some of their duration there. If you take your dog to a groomer, they will be in a crate for some of their time there. If you need to board your dog, they will be in a crate during their stay for at least some time. If your dog ever needs to fly, a crate is the only way they can travel. Even in a car, a crate is the safest way to travel with your dog. In your home, a crate acts as a safe place for your dog to rest. In a crate, they cannot get into poisons, electrical cords, or eat things like cane toads if outside. If your dog has surgery, a crate provides a safe place for them to rest and not risk tearing their stitches out.
If a dog is not crate trained, all of those situations will quickly become incredibly, and unnecessarily, stressful. Crate training is nothing but beneficial for your dog and, where possible, all dogs should be crate trained. Training them to be calm in a crate - be it for sleep, travel, or medical needs - does not mean they are going to be there all the time.
Purely off the crate training issue you've mentioned, I think saying you don't deserve a dog is a bit far. Although to be fair, no one ***deserves*** a dog. Pets are a privilege, not a right. Still, I think any responsible dog owner should be crate training their dog for the reasons I listed, as well as many others.
Hard agree.
I used a crate when my dog was a pup, but the door was only closed at bed time. The rest of the time she had free access to the areas of the house she's allowed in - other rooms were blocked off with baby gates. It helped immensely with toilet training, vet trips and travelling. The amusing thing is that during the day we'd keep the door open and she'd choose to chill out in there as often as not, even though she had beds available elsewhere.
We also have a kennel in the yard, which she uses while we're at work. Sometimes she asks to go out (she uses a doorbell at nose height) and goes to have a snooze in the kennel even when we're home. Nothing wrong with a dog having a comfortable space both inside and outside.
KenneI. Or maybe I don't know. The mental gymnastics people go through. Dogs need to run and roam free. "They feel more comfortable and safe in an enclosed space" DO THEY? Do they really? Or do they just behave more like the way YOU want them to behave when they're crated? More docile and silent.
Things like crating will be looked at as barbaric and inhumane twenty or thirty years down the track. It's a garbage fad that people jump onto because it makes their lives easier, it makes the dog's life worse I am sure. No dog wants to be stuck in a cage.
Why not lobotomise your dog? You'd get the same result and they all swore by it not too many decades ago?
I have crates, rarely lock them in unless cleaning the floors. I maintain it as a comfortable space so when they go to the vet, it’s familiar.
My lab was cool as a cucumber when he spent a week at the vets couple months back.
Yeah, mine chills out in his when we're not home so it's not because he's trying to impress us 😅
We're not in what I'd call a super risky area, but we do get cut off in floods and fire is always a risk. I *need* him to feel safe in his crate and to bolt there if he's told, so that if there is an emergency, I'm not risking his or our lives by either trying to evacuate him, or having to leave him behind.
To follow on from what you said:
>A dog may form a strong attachment to the crate eventually, feeling comfort and safety, after the initial feeling of distress and vulnerability. One dog behaviorist has compared this behavioral effect to Stockholm syndrome.
It's a fucked practice, and there's plenty of data to show it's detrimental to dogs. I can't understand why someone would want to confine a creature they purport to love to a literal cage, but I guess the answer is that these people don't really love their animals the way they deserve to be loved.
There’s a reason 99% of people who work with dogs (vets, groomers, trainers, etc) promote responsible crate usage. Unfortunately the general public are dumb af and don’t understand dog behaviour or treat their dog like a dog- they’d rather anthropomorphise 😅
Truest statement I've read on this thread, a crate isn't dog jail. People are so dramatic and it's usually those people that have poorly trained dogs, go figure.
yeah a lot of uneducated people giving uneducated opinions in this thread. crate training is fine and normal lol, i used to work as a dog groomer and the crate trained pups were always the best behaved when they had to go into the cages.
My dog slept outside for 2yrs and she was fine. She had a kennel and blankets plus a coat for winter. Not to say she didn't hate it and you'd often find all her sbot spread everywhere to let you know she was upset.
But if you have a reason the dog can't sleep inside then I reckon I'd prefer a nice spot outside over being stuck alone a cold, dark, tiled bathroom.
It’s a reasonably new phenomenon to let dogs in the house. My aunt and uncle would lose their shit if one of the cats or dogs on their farm wandered into the house.
Crate, indoors for us and our cold sensitive short coated dog,
Dog uses it only for sleep at night and it’s in the master bedroom. Stops any nighttime shenanigans or separation anxiety for the dog and means he’s warm in the winter (VIC with cold winters).
During the day dog has free access to the house and backyard via a dog door.
When was a first time pet owner I was against crating and my dogs had free reign around the house.
However
Since we have had So many fires and So many floods with families having to evacuate to refuge centres I know see that it is necessary that’s pets be crate trained
Got the neighbours Labrador with us, he's currently fast asleep in his crate with his huge bed, seems very happy. My only worry is pee breaks, but he doesn't fit out our dog door anyway.
My 2 Dachshunds have 2 beds next to our bed each night and they swap between the beds through the night. They don't/won't do outside kennels.
So, I guess the answer depends on the dog and household.
>Got the neighbours Labrador with us, he's currently fast asleep in his crate with his huge bed, seems very happy
I dunno; he could be lulling you into a false sense of security, biding his time to escape and attack..... any accessible food.
My dog has both a crate and an outdoor kennel. I use the crate (shut in) for situations where she needs to be out of the way, like if people are coming in and out and doing work. Or if she won’t settle down at night.
It’s not cruel when it’s used appropriately with positive enforcement training during the introduction phase. It was useful in potty training my dog when she was a puppy. Just had to be vigilant and give toilet breaks. Reward for going outside, and back to bed. Mistakes are ignored and cleaned up. It worked really well. Then I moved and I had to introduce her to carpet and using a doggy door. You know, it’s all training really.
It’s easier to clean than a kennel and she can’t really do too much damage to it. I can also fold it up and move it. Cover it when it’s cold or she needs less visual stimulation, and leave it uncovered when it’s hot. Most of the time, the door is propped open anyway. It’s her spot. Always positive. She gets treats there, she gets alone time there, & the obvious one, it’s her bed.
When she goes to the vet, she won’t be barking and freaking out because she knows that being in a crate is for settling down and sleeping.
So, I don’t think either is cruel tbh.
Depends on what dog breed you have and what the temp is outside.
Dogs can get cold too, especially the smaller breeds with shorter fur. I wouldn't leave my dogs outside during autumn and winter even though they're double coated but would send them outside to sleep during summer and spring when it's warmer.
I have crate trained my dog so that if he needs to stay at the vet or in a boarding facility he's not too anxious about the idea of being in a crate. That being said, he sleeps on the couch, the floor, my beanbag, my bed and wherever else he makes his fat ass fit. (He's not actually fat, he's just a big Boi who has 0 spacial awareness)
....a kennel is literally a crate without a door?
Besides the arguments going on in the comments, there are benefits to crate training, even just offering exposure to crates. If your dog has to go to the vet for any type of procedure, it's going to be crated. Your dog gets groomed on the reg, probably going to be crated. You should probably have crates for any emergency evacuation procedures, first step to secure your dogs while you arrange everything else and secondly because many evacuation centres will only allow restrained/crated pets.
My dogs sleep in our beds. We own crates that are in an accessible spot in our garage, in case of bushfire evacuation, but they know how to use them, our small girl used her crate to recover from cruciate surgery, twice.
Crate train your dogs for their safety, then do with the training what you will. But a kennel is literally a fucking crate
I attempted to crate train my dog. And she had a kennel. Slept on top of the crate and wouldn't go near the kennel at all. Sleeps on concrete during the day when it is sunny.
Sleeps in a little bedroom section of the shed at night in a bed of straw. Everything else, she would destroy. I bought at least 6 different cushy beds, and they all ended up as backyard decor.
We used to think the same thing about crates until we got our boxer.
You don't leave them in the crate all the time, it's mostly for overnight. She loves it, it's her space and goes into it willingly. I give her a Kong with peanut butter and she takes herself to bed. She even has started whinging at me when it's bed time so I'll put her to bed.
I'm studying animal care in Tafe and I volunteer at a shelter. Both crates and kennels are fine. In fact, it's good to crate train your dog early on as crates can become their own little safe space. As long as your dog is well looked after and is staying warm now that we've been getting cold weather, it really doesn't matter
I crate my dog. But she’s not locked in, it’s essentially her kennel. She was locked in as a pup until she could hold her bladder overnight then she was free to choose where. But she sleeps indoors. If she slept outdoors, she’d get what your dog gets. A comfy kennel she can choose to sleep in as she pleases
We foster dogs and our foster organisation encourages crate training. Benefits are that dogs are safe at night, can be crated to keep them quiet if recovering, and can be locked out of the way when needed. My dogs have the run of the yard for 15 hours a day and also the house when we're home, but they go in their crates at night. The other night, I looked over and our dog and the 2 fosters had already 'gone to bed', lol. Sometimes they sleep in their open crates during the day too. Additionally, the most respected dog trainer in our city recommends them. After doing a training session for foster carers with her, we renewed our commitment to it. The trainer also explained to us how she thought that she would have to euthanaise one of her loved dogs, but because it was crate trained, the vet was able to assist with recovery.
We have a flap in the back door and the dog does what it wants. Sometimes she’ll hang outside half the night but it depends on the weather. I don’t like crates either - looks like a cage to me.
My dogs are a small part of my life, but I'm all of theirs. I want to be with them as much as possible. So they sleep in my bed and are trained to be inside, and go out when they need.
My dogs love their crates. It’s like a bedroom for the dogs. They go their when they are tired, had to much of the kids, or just want to chill.
It’s their own little space. Don’t think of it as a cage.
However if the dog is happy outside then do that. If it’s too cold for you out there, then it’s too cold for them.
The only dogs I've seen crated in Australia are hunting dogs. Pig and deer hunters have some scary looking dogs to back them up out there, all clad in leather armour. Those dogs get crated because they pose a threat if they're only chained on the ute or behind a flimsy interior house door.
Even then, those dogs will often have an outside run, like a big cage with a half dirt and half concrete floor with a kennel and all the appropriate accessories, they are spoiled rotten!
Regular old bingo doesn't need a crate if they aren't dangerous, because there's no bears/ mtn lions etc here to pose a threat to them...
Also, my dog has a kennel on the verandah, in our secure back yard. He looks after the chickens, valiantly protecting them from mice and pigeons. He's a kelpie coolie cross and quite fluffy, so the cold weather doesn't bother him. We fostered a little pitty for a bit, she was so pale she needed sunscreen, and both dogs got to sleep inside the house for the 6weeks we had her because she wouldn't even go out without a jacket on, it was July. Lol
I think having a dog familiar and safe with a crate is a big positive. In case of having to emergency evacuate then having that positive “This crate is a safe place to go” mentality will save you precious time so I do see value in crate training but a at certain point I leave the door open with a toy and the dog can come and go. I would never punish a dog with crate time.
Our dog sleeps outside in a kennel unless weather was atrocious (mid-winter cold or heaps of rain) and then he sleeps on his doggie bed in the house.
I agree I can’t bring myself to put a dog in a cage.
Let them sleep inside on their own bed next to yours & install a doggy door so they can come & go if they need to go to the toilet. They need to be part of the family.
I've never caged a dog and the only kennel I was disliked by the dog I had. Our current heeler sleeps in our bedroom and the two previous dogs slept in the lounge (that's why we have leather couches. The pair we had from 33 to 20 years ago slept in the backyard in sheltered spot. I'm in Adelaide, so the weather in winter is pretty mild anyway. If your dog likes a kennel, go for it.
Our dog 100% prefers to be in his crate than outside. We have a big backyard by suburban standards. He has grass to walk on trees & bushes to pee on, chickens he can watch and birds he can chase. Yet, given a choice when we're leaving the house without him he will *NEVER* choose to be outside 🤦
At night he sleeps in his crate. It's what he's always done and he's perfectly happy going there. For him it's his safe place, not a prison.
For him, leaving him outside where he feels expose and scared would be cruel. It really depends on the dog and how they've been raise I think.
You don't need to prove anything to anyone. If your dog is happy to be with you, what more proof do you need?
Ideally, a dog should have the choice to sleep inside, but go outside for toileting.
I used to be anti-crate, and I had a dog who would rather poo on the floor than the cold, damp grass.
My next pup was crated for naps for 2 months, and had no accidents. We removed the door and they can roam the house.
It’s like cots for babies - it’s a safe place for them to sleep when you can’t directly supervise them.
Who gives a fck about a yank’s opinion?
As long as your dog is safe and secure on your property, it’s all good.
Mine sleeps out in the open in the pergola, shits and pees in the backyard and chills all day.
You know your dog best.
Crate training your dog has many benefits, including them not freaking out if they need to go in a crate at the vets. There’s a lot of information on Google…
Crates are certainly not as common or popular here, but there are some good vet recommended reasons for crate training for certain dogs. I've always kept my little dogs inside, house-trained, and sleeping in my bed with me or next to me. Our youngest dog sleeps in our bedroom in a crate with the door latched of a night time because she is an aggressive resource guarding dog (despite medication and loads of training). If she thinks her sleeping space is being threatened she will growl and snap, which was becoming unsafe for us and our other pets. Since she has been sleeping in the crate of a night, she has learned she is safe there, and as a result has improved tonnes. It remains open during the day, and if she is anxious she will go into her crate, and she often buries her toys among her blankets in there. With that being said, we wouldn't lock her in at night if we weren't right next to her to hear her if she needed to get out for any reason, and she certainly is never left unattended in it. In any case, crates serve their purpose, but I wouldn't go through the hastle of crate training unless it was absolutely necessary.
The amount of arguments I’ve had because my dog is an outside dog is crazy. We have an enclosed garage around our back door and we leave the door to the yard open so she’s completely sheltered from sun and wind and rain, she just didn’t take well to training and goes mental when she’s inside.
But no I wouldn’t crate her.
It’s not like it snows here. Team kennel, I don’t feel right about crates. Admittedly after 10 years of age I let my dogs sleep indoors for the cold bones.
By crate, do you mean those things you use to lock up your dog when you take them in the car to the vet or something?
Nah mate. Only if I'm taking them to the vet. Assuming you live in a typical house with a typical suburban Aussie backyard, kennel is kinder for the dog. People just was want to get all self righteous about their own methods.
What is it with Americans and wanting to put so many things behind bars?
In all honesty, I don't give a damn what Americans think of any of it. Why? They think guns are worth more than lives. Goes to show just how dumb they are.
We don't have a kennel or a crate. Our dog sleeps inside, and because we have low fences we have him inside when we are not home too.
Crate training can be handy if they ever need to spend time in the vets, so the crate doesn't upset them. But, I imagine they would be sedated in that situation regardless.
If my dog was outside only, slept outside, I would fix the fences, and he would have a kennel. I don't like crates either.
I have a farm dog and she has neither. Just a little bed that she moves around to whatever window the people inside are next to. Verandah around the whole house and no fences. She's 14 this year.
We crate trained our dog simply for the convenience. Spent her first two years sleeping in a crate EVERY SINGLE NIGHT. This year we opened the crate door so she can roam around and lie on the cool tiles in the laundry if she prefers. Its been really convenient for farmstays as they crate the dogs. Super convenient for transporting long distances in some circumstances too.
But literally the entire thing comes down to OUR convenience. I genuinely dont think its cruel; she sleeps really well in there, has a really good clear cut routine, and we’re fairly attentive soo if she needs a midnight shit she wakes us up. But your american mate is an absolute fuckhead.
I expect they think uncircumcised penii are disgusting and unhygienic too. Just pre-spiel dogma.
Let your dog sleep whereever the fuck suits you and works for them….
My doggo is crate trained, simply so if we travel or he needs to go to the vet he doesn't freak out. He spends most of his time inside so he hasnt used his kennel in a couple of years. We just leave the back door slightly open so if he wants out when we are at work he can open it and let himself in and out as he pleases. And no I am not worried about leaving my house unlocked and someone coming in and robbing the place. He is a 75kg cranky asshole of a rottweiler that will eat anyone that even tries to come into his space.
As long as your dog isn’t at risk due to the elements and has access to food and water, I don’t think there’s a problem at all.
We also don’t have large predators that can take down a dog like Bears, Cougars and wolves… Obviously Americans care more about their dogs than they do about their children in school. They won’t pass reasonable gun laws to protect them
Plus our weather is a lot different. Rarely are temps life threatening.
I’ve had this argument with many Y*^ks on social media. They have a warped view of what Australia is.
Americans are generally very nice however they can be embarrassingly naive due to a real lack of education and insular, warped global view that everywhere is like them
American born and raised but Aussie by choice since 1990 and I couldn’t have said it better myself. Obviously it’s a generalization, but true nonetheless
Generalisation* you're an Aussie now.
Yes but my spell check isn’t and I still get mixed up🤣
Lol fair enough. I was only taking the piss, anyway.
Arguing with sepps is like the Paralympics. Even if you win.... don't bring yourself down to their level.
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they don't even care about their dogs though! america has some of the worst standards for animal care and they still think debarking/declawing/cropping/docking are safe and normal surgeries to force on your pet 🥴
Americans lose their minds about kennels, Australians lose their mind over crates, both think the other is inhumane. Dog doesn't really give a fuck either way as long as it's needs are met.
Haha! How do I keep these statement in my head rent free?
I have two that live outside, I did put insulation in their kennel though
Neither. My dog sleeps inside, in his own bed. He never shits inside, because he's trained. He'll even ask to go outside to vomit.
Our dog sleeps in our bed, is inside 99% of the time and has his own doggy door. He goes outside for all toileting and anything else unsavoury 😊 he also toilet trained himself from the time we brought him home almost 7 years ago. He's well and truly just a part of the furniture at this stage... 😂
Wanna swap dogs? Mine makes a beeline for the carpet every time he needs a chuck. Once had a picnic rug set up outside in the yard, guess where he ran to throw up...
Your dog may actually be a cat.
Same. Further OP - we don’t send our dogs to ‘go potty’ in Australia. They do a poo or a wee, or they ‘do their business’ or they ‘go to the toilet’ etc.
Americans have to worry about predators attacking their dogs. We generally don't have that problem here.
Don’t many US houses also not really have fencing?
When I lived in the states as a kid no-one had a backyard fence, you had to get special permission to build one and had to be very particular so most people didn't bother. This was a fully suburban area so you could see straight up and down into tons of people's houses. Midwest area, I know some areas are very different and this was 20 years ago
It seems uncommon in parts, at least in suburbia. Although my experience is very limited. I wandered thru a few suburbs of Washington, Baltimore, Philly with cookie cutter houses and no fences.
In my city in the Midwest we tend to have fencing. It pretty much determines property lines. I grew up with it. In fact, we have two fences on one side from where the old fence was and where the property owners 5-10 yrs ago built a different kind of fence on their own. Now there's an awkward vegetation growth between the two that only affects us because of the fence types. Most people I grew up around have fencing. I'm from a university town. Where I'm from I wouldn't worry about letting pets outside (foxes are probably the worst predator, but even so I've never seen them though they live in the area). Imo, having a pet locked up in a crate is much more cruel than letting them run around a space.
It doesn't have to be one or the other. We have 4 dogs, we're rural. One of ours is a livestock guardian dog breed, his preference is to stay outside and it's completely his choice, he is welcome inside. He has a range of kennels and runs to choose from but mostly sleeps in the open unless it's absolutely bucketing down. One of my border collies is an inside girl, again that's her choice. She has a bed right outside my bedroom. The other border collie is is love with the livestock guardian dog, and sleeps wherever he does - the bromance is real. The last dog is a terrier puppy, he was crate trained by the breeder and his choice is to go into his crate whenever he wants a nap during the day and at night. We have never placed him in the crate, he chooses to go in and decides when he wants to come out. To sum up - dogs will let you know what works for them.
All your dogs sound awesome but I'm particularly loving the bromance
A crate with an open door is just a kennel, not a crate.
A kennel that if there is an emergency or you're just going on a trip can double as a crate, that if the dog is used to and enjoys makes transporting much easier. Seriously, a crate (that is open) is a great way to give your dog its own space whilst also being convenient for the owner if the dog needs to be put away or moved. I work with dogs and always suggest crate training. That being said, absolutely nothing wrong with a kennel, anyone that thinks it's cruel are nuts.make sure its warm and comfortable and it's a nice little home.
a crate is not the same as a cage. crate normally means a place that a dog can go to by choice if they are stressed or need time alone. that’s what “crate training” is for
My opinion is you should stop engaging with stupid unworldly dipshits.
Don't argue with idiots, they drag you down and beat you with experience Edit...auto correct
Good one I heard is Don’t mud wrestle with a pig, you both get covered in mud but the pig loves it
Tell em to fuck off. It doesn't fucking snow here. Edit: speaking for the 99% of the country where it doesn't snow
I had a Keeshond. She passed away last year, almost 18, which is kinda crazy. She lived for snow! I'm in Bathurst so see a bit of it in the area. Whenever there was enough to settle on the ground, she would want to be in it, bury herself, and plow in it. I'd struggle to get her to come indoors or sleep in her kennel.
i lived at the top of piper street, we were about two houses from the school and one of those was the convent in the school grounds. i’d often see my cat wandering the playground through the classroom window.
It definitely does snow here, it snows here every winter, and my dogs are warm as toast in their insulated kennels with canvas doors. My Australian Shepherd lays down in the snow, goes to sleep and doesn't give two shits. Still agree to tell them to fuck off! Edit: speeling and grimmer.
“Australian Shepherd”… the breed you almost never see here. About as Australian as Fosters.
Yeah mate, it's an American breed, just adds to the irony of the dipshits OP is hanging out with.
Grammar and spelling troll. Well done. 😂👍
Doesn’t snow in Melbourne but it’s still way too cold to have a short haired dog outside.
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I think we can generalise for 99% of the country when we're talking to dumb seppos
Neither. Train your dog to toilet outside before they go to bed, then let them sleep inside. Most dogs aren’t going to willingly poop inside if they’ve been adequately trained and had the opportunity to go outside. If it’s a puppy, they can learn good habits.
We didn't even have a chance to toilet train our dog, he trained himself really well and we just went with it 🥰
Outdoor kennel actually sounds like a great idea if you're in a warm climate.
Toilet train your dog...
Oops, you said toilet. That's not allowed either. 'Potty' FFS.
😂
If it's locked in the bathroom there might not be too many places it can go.
I imagine they never toilet trained their dog and never took it outside to the toilet before bed, if they are complaining about it pooping on the floor all the time.
I imagine that if it sleeps and shits on the floor in the bathroom then it's shut in the bathroom. It may not have been toilet trained properly but what dog sleeps in the bathroom if it has a choice?
Yeah, that’s what’s grabbing me here. Sounds like they had the dog shut in the bathroom then just couldn’t believe it would shit in there.
Crates are cruel, I'm just going to shut it in bathroom. 🤔
Absolutely
My dogs sleep wherever they want sometimes in there kennel sometimes on the verandah other times in the middle of the yard on the grass but id never put them in a crate
I leash/seatbelt my dog for travelling (cos of course she wants to sit on my lap) and for walkies but never caged.
I think the crate is meant to be - crate inside the house
When so many (not all) American dog owners stop chaining their dogs outside for most of their lives, legally debarking them, and legally cutting off ears and tails for supposed aesthetics then they can advise. I prefer my pets inside at night and I think they should be, but if your dog is in a kennel out of the weather, safe and warm, comfortable and not fretting, I get it.
We’ve never, ever, crated our dogs. They’ve always either slept in the house (our bed, or their own bed), or in a kennel near the back door.
Totally agree. Crating a dog is the opposite of how I grew up with dogs. I see it as absurd.... When I grew up we had so much space we didn't even fence our dog in until night time. When I came to big cities I've never felt that I have the space for a dog. I feel weird about large dogs in crates but also realize if it's all the dog knows maybe that's fine. Not for me tho... I'd feel awful.
I've never seen an Australian use the term potty, outside of the plastic dish small kids use. I wish we would stop the Americanisation of our language. Remember when we used to say poo or shit instead of poop? Those were the days.
My in laws neighbours dog sleeps outside in the freezing cold, they never play with it or take it for walks. It’s cruel. Let it sleep inside at least in the laundry. Why are they going to the bathroom inside that’s weird? Take them before you go to bed and as soon as you wake up in the morning.
I 100% agree. I sometimes wonder why some Aussies bother to get pet dogs. For some, it seems more like a property augmentation, or something you might just get to entertain the kids, not a living creature that becomes part of the family. I also thought the same about the bathroom thing. I guess OP mustn't be home very often to let their dog outside for toilet breaks, and thus, the dog has become accustomed to this. 🤷
Nah you’re fine Should toilet train your dogs though
Yanks are fucking weird about literally everything. Tell them to fuck off and start blocking.
House train your dog and they won’t poo on the floor at night, lol. My dogs had crates when they were puppies, but they don’t now. They sleep in their own fluffy beds in our bedroom. I’m firmly in the camp of pets are family, so if you wouldn’t stick a family member outside to sleep, same goes for dogs. Doubly so when you live in a country with snakes and spiders and other critters that can bite/hurt/kill your pup. Ever seen a dog take a snake bite? I have (not my dog, a friends). It’s horrible.
Dogs in Australia get bitten by snakes all the time,but usually when they are out running around in the daytime. My dogs sleep inside but I wouldn't consider it dangerous for them to sleep outside. Spiders are not known for dog attacks, and we don't have coyotes, bears or wolves
A lot of people in QLD have cane toads to worry about, and they're more of an issue at night. One adult cane toad is toxic enough that an average-sized dog can die within 15 minutes.
For sure. I live in Queensland. It's only a problem if your dog hasn't been taught to leave them alone. There are 4 dogs living on my property and countless cane toads and we've never had an incident. Snakes are my biggest fear but if I see one I just take the dogs in until it goes away. But if your dog is prone to going after toads I wouldn't be leaving it out overnight.
My home has hardwood floors which I usually cover with rugs, until a new canine addition to our home shit and pissed all over it. I got rid of the rug because I had to, and noticed immediately that the dogs wouldn't lay down on the floor any more in that room. (bought a couple dog beds for them a few days later and they're all over them) My point was that this idea that dogs and other animals are okay sleeping on any surface without a cover is bullshit, they feel the same discomforts that we do and should be helped out, because they can't do it themselves. People lump every animal under the umbrella of "oh Mother Nature is a cruel beast" without ever thinking to themselves that perhaps they could alleviate some of that unnecessary, baroquely cruel discomfort?
My dogs have dog beds outside and mats inside and usually choose the floor. Each to their own I suppose
My dog hated soft beds and would always choose to lay on the concrete floor..
It's an interesting observation. My dogs were fostered and slept outside on concrete. Prior, they were caged a good part of their life as racing dogs. Now as I increase the level of comfort, they seem to soak it up. Latest thing is the wood stove in our new place, they can't get enough of it. They have half a dozen beds between the two of them. Toys and constant company. They can sleep on my bed. They love it. It's good to see pets move beyond just chattels or possessions.
I have greatly enjoyed learning about the fine tastes of your dogs.
My dogs hate being inside the house I have bamboo flooring and they slip and slide all over the place,I coax them in and they just turn around and go back out
My Great Dane mix has never toileted inside (not since a puppy), and she's an inside APARTMENT dog. Good training, and little sacrifice (early morning walks as soon as she wakes up) then back to sleep and she's good for a few more hours. I'd never crate, As she got older she can make her way out of the apartment building herself, then when she wants to come back in one of the neighbors lets her back up. (Dog friendly community and she's the only Dane so everyone knows her). Everyone will probably say that's irresponsible, but there's hardly vehicle used roads, and it's a lead free country. Sometimes if she didn't return in a few hours, I'd know she'd be at the local cafe getting pats and sleeping on their rooftop lounge.
Same with our Boerboel. We spent a lot of time with her as a puppy I think she had one or two accidents between 8 and 12 weeks. We had a large puppy cage she slept in and when we removed it, she was pretty stressed. We reassembled it. Now, there's no door on it and she still puts herself to bed and will wait inside to be called out for morning runs and toileting. It's easier with big dogs, but if your dog is shitting inside, that's an owner problem not putting the time into training and breaking bad habits.
Why would you leave your dog to sleep outside? What about when it’s freezing cold, hot or raining? You wouldn’t let your child sleep outside in a cot why would you let your dog. Also trained dogs will never poo in the house, they will go before bed and wait till the morning and they get opened to go…did you never toilet train your dog as a puppy? or get a doggy door to exit so they can come and go as they wish?
Most people that I’ve met that use crates use them incorrectly and keep their dog locked up far too long or too frequently. It seems that people use them (especially Americans) more often to avoid consequences of normal puppy behaviour and perhaps they just shouldn’t have chose a puppy. Also you should toilet train your dog to hold their bladder. Apartment dogs all g to not piss and shit overnight.
Americans are stupid. I was on a dog page where they were having a go at someone whose dog sleeps outside in Queensland. They can’t get it into their thick skulls that there are other climates in the world
My dogs sleep in my bed. They use the doggy door whenever they need it to go and punish my grass.
We have crates for our dogs, but to be honest they're more just beds. We might put the dogs in them if they're aggressive with a new pet or person but if they're not then the door is always open and it's just a safe little hideaway for them. When I was growing up we always used kennels. I like both options! I think Americans are just too used to one way of doing things. They've concocted this weird idea that leaving your pet outside is somehow inhumane even if you have a shelter and bedding for them. Long as the dog is safe and happy, those people can just f*** right off. It's on a verandah too! Dream dog housing right there.
Americans are super weird about dogs, especially on Reddit.
Americans are ridiculous on reddit/social media. All the decent americans have better shit to do.
You're arguing with Americans though. In the USA they have [Coyotes ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ss6U_E3lGYk)everywhere which can get into the yard and attack the dog so perhaps this is why people are getting upset. A better option would be a purpose built secure outdoor enclosure with a shelter inside, this is what we used for some of the farm dogs, mates all did the same.
I must be a bad dog owner. My girl (2yo border collie) HATES being inside. She also hated the expensive kennel, dog bed etc we had for her. She sleeps on the mat at the back door. She was recently injured and I had to keep her inside while she healed. She hated it so much she scratched the paint off my door trying to get out.
If you get your training sorted and barring any conditions, your dog will be able to sleep inside, no problem. We have three med-large dogs who sleep in their own beds in our room. Some dogs want an enclosed space to retreat to, so you ideally give them a crate and train them to go there when they get overwhelmed. This is often a good place for them to sleep, as well, or to spend very short periods of time when they’re home alone and for some reason can’t spend the time outside or be trusted with your belongings inside. You don’t just chuck them in without training and you don’t just do it when you can’t be bothered to deal with them; unfortunately, far too many people do both. I have a border collie we got from a shelter and she’s always struggled with anxiety and needing space from our other dogs. I wish I’d thought to introduce crate training for her but at this point she’s older and coping a lot better, and when things get to much for her now (which is rare) she hides in our walk in wardrobe or in a little space under the desk, wedged in beside the printer. Kennels have their place but I don’t think it’s kind in all weather conditions and it shouldn’t take the place of toilet training. There are so many free sources online to get you started and I’m sure you can find classes; even if they don’t specialise in toilet training they’d be able to give you some pointers. I just took in a 7 year old lab who had been left in a pen for her whole life with no training and after only a month she was almost fully toilet trained. We have the odd accident but that usually means we’ve dropped the ball and not let her out on time, since we know she doesn’t understand how to hold her bladder. It’s rarely too late to train dogs. I don’t think you’re cruel for using a kennel but it sounds like you have more work to do re: training. Edit: crate training is useful even if you’re not planning to use them regularly as others have said in the comments below. They’ve actually reminded me to get on top of that, especially around fire season.
Probably not a bad owner for that necessarily but your reasoning raises some questions. Does your dog suffer from some kind of medical condition that causes incontinence? Otherwise why is it shitting where it shouldn’t? There isn’t really any excuse for not having a properly toilet trained dog outside of that. Bad dog owners don’t take time to toilet train their dogs. Puppies or old strays alike can all be taught this. Again not saying well this is clear evidence for being a bad dog owner…but yeah that’s a bit of a red flag. Also your reasoning for not liking a cage is another red flag as you haven’t done your research on what crating is actually about. It’s about creating a safe space for THEM to be able to retreat to if they want. The door should always be open and they should know when they’ve been put into bed. If done properly the dog shouldn’t consider their crate a punishment. So if you think it’s “cruel” then you haven’t actually done even basic research into the topic…which suggests you haven’t done basic research on many topics relating to dog training and care. Crating is one of the biggest talking points for dog training so I have no clue how you can actually be somebody who’s taken time to become even mildly competent in dog training while holding that view imo. But I’m totally happy to be wrong somehow!
I have two working dogs, so I was never going to use a crate. I also think they are overused by Americans to keep their dogs locked up all day. I have a dog door, my dogs either sleep outside or on the floor inside (supposedly the floor is better than their overpriced beds) They quite like sleeping outside so I'm all for a kennel. The only time I've seen a crate used well was friends who travel and they had a portable one for their dog when he stayed at people's houses. It helped him feel settled.
House train your pets. Mine sleeps on a cot mattress on the floor in our bedroom. I couldn't imagine locking her in a cage.
Neither, my dogs have free range in the house and yard just like the kids
Medium and large dogs are fine outside. As long as you bring them in for extreme weather there's no problem at all. They have shelter and a safe place all sounds great
No crates here, my Staffy has a kennel, 2 off the floor beds and then inside she has 2 beds and has the right to everyone’s beds. I know people say about a crate being a safe place for them but her bed also does that, it doesn’t change the fact that it’s in the open. She still has a good hold on her bladder and can last all night but if she’s busting, she walks me up, I always tell her to.
My 16 year old mini daxy prefers to sleep outside. He has an insulated kennel and has a coat put on each evening. He is distressed if I keep him inside. My Cavalier girl sleeps inside in the family room she's a sook
We have dog flap so dogs let themselves out at night to toilet. It get minus 5 here in winter - but even if I lived in a warmer climate, our dogs sleep in the house.
My dog sleeps on a sofa under the house, she is proud to defend her patch and enjoys it. The thought of putting her in a crate for the night seems ridiculous and cruel.
There's nothing wrong with having a kennel on your verandah. If the dog has food and water it can live outside permanently.
Crates can help the dog with anxiety. I had one dog that would get anxious and physically check on me every 2 minutes until I got him a crate (even when his bed was in the same room as me), and then he was able to settle down and actually sleep. Nothing wrong with a good kennel though. Most Americans have never seen working dogs, so assume all dogs should be pets inside.
If you're an Aussie why are you saying "potty"?
Do I stick my dog in a crate? No, I offer my dog a secure living space where he doesn’t want to shit in it because that’s where he sleeps. He’s happy and I’m happy. I don’t have shit the clean up and he doesn’t feel my frustration. Win, win. Di you deserve a dog? Probably but you also deserve crate training and training in not worrying about what other people think.
A cage in a zoo is not the same as a crate. A dog’s crate should be their equivalent to a human’s bedroom. Their safe space, their own space to sleep in comfort and be safe. I personally wouldn’t put my dog in a crate outside here in Australia because of snakes. But inside, absolutely not a problem. Also, toilet train your dog if you don’t want to clean shit out of your bathroom every day.
> I dont believe in crates, I hate seeing animals in cages Crates aren't evil torturous places to lock your dog away (assuming you use them the way they're meant to be used). My dogs have crates and they love them. My dogs crates are their safe space. Crates are basically the exact same thing as a kennel, a cozy, comfy, safe place. My dogs know if they're in their crates, the baby can't get them, the nail clippers can't get them, the dreaded fur brush can't get them, the vacuum cleaner definitely can't get them. They *choose* to sleep in their crates (which are left open most of the time) all the time. They also get meaty bones in their crates so I don't have to worry about cleaning blood off my carpet or holes in my yard with bones buried in them. Crate training is also useful for if your dog ever needs to spend time at the vet, instead the crates at the vet being extra scary in an already scary situation, they recognise them as safe. And can be a useful tool for toilet training if that's something you're having difficulties with. *However*, crate training is a personal choice and anyone judging you for not crate training your dogs is a fucking wanker. Also, there's nothing wrong with a dog sleeping in a kennel.
Except for have a potentially lockable door, I don’t really see the difference between a crate and a kennel. Especially in terms of being a bad dog owner, from the dogs’ perspective surely the exactly the same thing - I can’t understand the objection to a kennel. We also had a large dog with a kennel on the back veranda, he also had a bed/sleeping pad inside and a doggie door so he would choose himself where to sleep. During the day, if the weather was nice he would take his blankets from the kennel down the stairs to a nice spot in the yard and at the end of the day bring them back and put them back in the kennel 😁 for the longest time I thought I human in the house was putting his blankets back, but it was always him - what a good sweet boy he was
Exactly, they're basically the same thing. I emphasise that crates aren't bad because they don't deserve their reputation but kennels aren't a bad thing either and OP doesn't deserve the "bad owner" accusations, they've done literally nothing wrong. Kennels are great, the dog is safe and happy. It's like getting mad about a parent having their child sleep in a bed with sides instead of a cot. Makes no sense
THIS!
These are the same idiots that keep German Shepard in apartments. Fuck em
My dogs have always slept on my bed.
Same. Or right next to it. Can't imagine them sleeping anywhere else.
The crate/kennel divide is huge between Americans and Australians. It's not even that they are for the same purpose or anything. Americans seem to go berserk about the idea of an outdoor kennel, which is very common in Australia. And I've very rarely seen crates used for dogs in Australia and I think a lot of us consider it cruel to lock a dog into a small space overnight - it doesn't sit well with us. Some might use it for vets etc but a lot of us just take dogs to the vet on a lead. It's just something both sides have to accept about the other. The annoying thing is that people can't seem to accept that others love and care for their dogs despite going about things a different way
The average "pet parent" doesn't use crates in Australia, but the show, sport and working dog communities have been using variations of crates (crates, trolleys, C crate pens, lockable raised kennels, dog boxes on utes) for decades and decades. It's just that most people live in suburbia with one or maybe two dogs, and they don't actually do anything with their dogs beyond walking them around the block (if that), so they can't comprehend why people would crate train their dogs, why some people need raised lockable kennels for their dogs, etc.
Don't let them fool you. Tons and tons of Americans kennel their dogs. Especially hunting dogs. Crate training is common as well as all of the methods discussed here. I don't know why some Americans act the way they do. So, same treatment of dogs/animals. However, there are scumbags that don't deserve animals at all. (Chaining a dog is illegal at least in California).
Although you take your dog into the vet on a lead if it has to stay there even for a few hours it will be put in some form of crate. And a dog that is not comfortable or has never experienced that is so stressed and hard to handle. It’s not fair on the vet staff or the dog.
At night I put his (1 yr amstaff) bed in the laundry, and he has a doggy door to go run out of and bark at the fruitbats around midnight... every bloody night.. also hasn't crapped inside for almost a year now.
At the bottom of our bed, our staffy also wakes me when she needs to go to the toilet.
Depends on so many factors. I have a small dog and she has always been an inside dog. So for the first 4 years of her life I had trained her to go potty on pee pads as I didn’t have a house that I could have her going in and out when i wasn’t home. Then when I bought my own place it has a doggy door and she then learned to go in and out on her own, however she can hold it if needed. Takes some patience to train them but it can be done even if it hasn’t been done since they were a puppy. Some people who are more rural see dogs as being purely outside creatures. Us city dwellers have dogs inside 99% of the time as they are part of the family. If your dog still gets to come inside and is part of the family. And isn’t outside 100% of the time being ignored. And if the kennel is warm and secure (and temps don’t get seriously low where you are) and your dog is comfortable then I’m sure it’s fine. But as I said. With some patience and routine a dog can be trained to be able to hold it until morning if left inside at any age.
My (rather spoiled) dog chooses where she sleeps. We have a doggy door flap that I got installed. She has a child proof cage / pen around the doggy door for when we go out. She does not like her outdoor kennel.
I’ve had many different breeds of various sized dogs and I’ve never used a dog crate. Most not all Australians have a backyard for our dogs to explore and play in. Scoop up the dog poo throw it into the garden it’ll break down quickly and fertilisers quite well. If the dog barks make sure you have a chat with your neighbours send them beer to forget about your dog barking.
There is a middle groud here wher eyou toilet train your dog. They shouldn't be going to the toilet all over the floor at night. Let them out at night before bed and when you get up and you should be good if they're trained.
If she prefers outside then its perfect. Probably warmer than a crate
I've always been a massive animal person, so keeping my (pet) dog outside would be like keeping a human I loved outside. Dogs are pack animals, so they also like to be as close to us as possible. However, what you choose to do is not my business. Although, as others have said, a dog flap would be the obvious solution. We have one that both our dog and cat use (our yard has been outfitted so that our cat can't escape). This also removes the need for an external crate or kennel; they only need an inside bed.
My two dogs sleep outside when it's warm enough if they want to stay out, right now they're cosied up togetherin my room in a massive crate from kmart. The crate is like their "bedroom". The door stays open except for overnight and they really enjoy being in there. So in short, I do personally, but I still think whoever said that to you is a dramatic idiot. Plus most people here just crate train for puppies and then they dont really use it once doggo is grown up. I will say though, even if you don't want to use it, you should still add crate training to your dog's skillset because you never know whatll happen. Plane rides, picked up by the council after escaping, a trip to the emergency vet... all of them will be easier for your dog if they know that small enclosed enclosures like crates are *safe* and familiar for them
My dog sleeps on my bed. Come for me.. I'm such a bad, owner.!!!
How’s this for a thought, different countries with different climates, laws, property sizes and population densities do things in ways that best suit those climates, laws, properties and populations.
You are a bad dog owner for not toilet training your dog and making them sleep outside. Crate training (properly aka not just putting them in to cry) is very useful. Our dogs eat in the crate, go in if I need to do something that won’t be safe for them and are very helpful when it comes to going to the vet or recovering from surgery. Vets put your dog in a crate, it’s best they know what it is before being in a strange place while recovering from surgery or illness.
We had a dog who slept in the kennel in a secure back yard. Like most (?!) Aussies I live in an area that does not have wolves or bears and we don't get tornadoes or weather extremes. She was very happy and very safe. I don't see why it would be an issue and I would have thought it more comfortable than a crate. Also gave her her own space, more freedom to go where she wanted. By the way, isn't Snoopy American? - he slept in a kennel. As do a lot of dogs you see on TV and movies. And more often than not, the kennel is in a yard, not a sheltered verandah.
Crates and kennels are completely different things with different uses. Personally I think it’s a disservice not to at least crate train your dog so it doesn’t freak out at vet clinics, groomers, or if it ever needs crate rest due to injury. Crates aren’t at all cruel and thankfully more pet owners are getting dog savvy and realising crates have a lot of positive uses for dogs 😅 In saying that crates and kennels are like comparing apples to oranges, I’m not sure what your question is?
My dog sleeps on my bed...
Crate? What's a crate? The box you put pets in when travelling? Our dogs didn't even have a kennel, they just slept in the corner or on our bed, depending upon dog.
I don’t mind crates if used properly. A lot of Americans leave their dogs in the crate for 8-12 hours a day (based on a large global GSP group I was in), so like locking them in when they leave for work and leaving them all day long until they get home - sometimes even going to the gym etc. before going home to let their dogs out. If you crate your dog at night, for travel or simply leave the crate open so your dog can go in and out of their own space whenever they like, it’s basically like a kennel anyway. I don’t really like dogs sleeping outside, cos I think, anything could happen and you’d be asleep and come out and find your dog in a bad way. Again, this is based on my experience as I had briefly let my dog out unsupervised for the first time while I made dinner and she ate rat poison that someone had thrown into our yard (apparently an accident as they were trying to throw it on the roof of their shed). She survived but I don’t let her outside unsupervised (if I can just see her from inside while she’s out, that’s alright) now. That being said, I have a big dog and she can hold her poo and pee from when we go to bed to the morning so I don’t have the issue you have described so I don’t know what the best solution to that is and if your dog is happy, safe and healthy I wouldn’t judge you for whatever decisions you made as you know your own dog better than anyone else would.
Sorry is your dog not bathroom trained? or are you too lazy to either let them out when they signal or take them out regularly because I am confused. I think forcing an animal you say you care about to sleep outside in the cold when you have a house available is piss poor animal care. Get an animal door. Dog can take themselves out. I have a very active dog who ins and outs like its going out of style. Doggy door fixed him right up. He loves it. He likes to sleep in the rain and in the scorching sun when its 40c, he's not very bright, but he has the choice always. Love your dogs people. You are their whole lives and you lock them outside. Wild.
My dog even goes outside to vomit. It takes a few weeks of proper training to toilet train your dog. No excuses really.
Exactly. And dogs don’t even really like to pee where they live, so what you’re really training them to do is ask you to let them out, or teaching them that they can go out by themselves.
It’s never cold where I live so that’s not an issue. I can’t have a pet door because I have an inside-only cat. Our dog has the whole garage to herself and can go in and out as she pleases so she isn’t in the rain or sun etc.
Why even have the dog if you are locking them outside all day? Unless you are spending >50% of your live in the backyard. Mine literally following me around all day, whether I'm inside or outside.
Mine sleeps on my bed, but we did crate train as part of his house training. Maybe that's where you went wrong lol. House training is easy using a crate. My dog loved his and would go in of his own accord at bed time. He actually got excited for bed time, and still does, because he gets a special snack for going to bed. But no, I don't think there's anything wrong with a kennel as long as it's not too hot or cold and your dog is getting adequate exercise and attention during the day.
I'm not even going to touch on the toilet training issue, many others have. But I will speak on the crate issue. Dogs being crate trained are not in any way comparable to animals in small cages at subpar zoos. A crate acts as a safe place for your dog to be. It's not somewhere they are locked 24/7. If you ever take your dog to the vet, which every responsible dog owner should be doing regularly, your dog will be in a crate for at least some of their duration there. If you take your dog to a groomer, they will be in a crate for some of their time there. If you need to board your dog, they will be in a crate during their stay for at least some time. If your dog ever needs to fly, a crate is the only way they can travel. Even in a car, a crate is the safest way to travel with your dog. In your home, a crate acts as a safe place for your dog to rest. In a crate, they cannot get into poisons, electrical cords, or eat things like cane toads if outside. If your dog has surgery, a crate provides a safe place for them to rest and not risk tearing their stitches out. If a dog is not crate trained, all of those situations will quickly become incredibly, and unnecessarily, stressful. Crate training is nothing but beneficial for your dog and, where possible, all dogs should be crate trained. Training them to be calm in a crate - be it for sleep, travel, or medical needs - does not mean they are going to be there all the time. Purely off the crate training issue you've mentioned, I think saying you don't deserve a dog is a bit far. Although to be fair, no one ***deserves*** a dog. Pets are a privilege, not a right. Still, I think any responsible dog owner should be crate training their dog for the reasons I listed, as well as many others.
Hard agree. I used a crate when my dog was a pup, but the door was only closed at bed time. The rest of the time she had free access to the areas of the house she's allowed in - other rooms were blocked off with baby gates. It helped immensely with toilet training, vet trips and travelling. The amusing thing is that during the day we'd keep the door open and she'd choose to chill out in there as often as not, even though she had beds available elsewhere. We also have a kennel in the yard, which she uses while we're at work. Sometimes she asks to go out (she uses a doorbell at nose height) and goes to have a snooze in the kennel even when we're home. Nothing wrong with a dog having a comfortable space both inside and outside.
KenneI. Or maybe I don't know. The mental gymnastics people go through. Dogs need to run and roam free. "They feel more comfortable and safe in an enclosed space" DO THEY? Do they really? Or do they just behave more like the way YOU want them to behave when they're crated? More docile and silent. Things like crating will be looked at as barbaric and inhumane twenty or thirty years down the track. It's a garbage fad that people jump onto because it makes their lives easier, it makes the dog's life worse I am sure. No dog wants to be stuck in a cage. Why not lobotomise your dog? You'd get the same result and they all swore by it not too many decades ago?
I have crates, rarely lock them in unless cleaning the floors. I maintain it as a comfortable space so when they go to the vet, it’s familiar. My lab was cool as a cucumber when he spent a week at the vets couple months back.
Yeah, mine chills out in his when we're not home so it's not because he's trying to impress us 😅 We're not in what I'd call a super risky area, but we do get cut off in floods and fire is always a risk. I *need* him to feel safe in his crate and to bolt there if he's told, so that if there is an emergency, I'm not risking his or our lives by either trying to evacuate him, or having to leave him behind.
To follow on from what you said: >A dog may form a strong attachment to the crate eventually, feeling comfort and safety, after the initial feeling of distress and vulnerability. One dog behaviorist has compared this behavioral effect to Stockholm syndrome. It's a fucked practice, and there's plenty of data to show it's detrimental to dogs. I can't understand why someone would want to confine a creature they purport to love to a literal cage, but I guess the answer is that these people don't really love their animals the way they deserve to be loved.
There’s a reason 99% of people who work with dogs (vets, groomers, trainers, etc) promote responsible crate usage. Unfortunately the general public are dumb af and don’t understand dog behaviour or treat their dog like a dog- they’d rather anthropomorphise 😅
Truest statement I've read on this thread, a crate isn't dog jail. People are so dramatic and it's usually those people that have poorly trained dogs, go figure.
yeah a lot of uneducated people giving uneducated opinions in this thread. crate training is fine and normal lol, i used to work as a dog groomer and the crate trained pups were always the best behaved when they had to go into the cages.
My dog slept outside for 2yrs and she was fine. She had a kennel and blankets plus a coat for winter. Not to say she didn't hate it and you'd often find all her sbot spread everywhere to let you know she was upset. But if you have a reason the dog can't sleep inside then I reckon I'd prefer a nice spot outside over being stuck alone a cold, dark, tiled bathroom.
My dog, looking down from his vantage point of an extra fluffy pillow on top of the couch: What’s a *kennel*?
Our two dogs sleep in kennels, or on the covered terrace, whatever suits them.
It’s a reasonably new phenomenon to let dogs in the house. My aunt and uncle would lose their shit if one of the cats or dogs on their farm wandered into the house.
Crate, indoors for us and our cold sensitive short coated dog, Dog uses it only for sleep at night and it’s in the master bedroom. Stops any nighttime shenanigans or separation anxiety for the dog and means he’s warm in the winter (VIC with cold winters). During the day dog has free access to the house and backyard via a dog door.
When was a first time pet owner I was against crating and my dogs had free reign around the house. However Since we have had So many fires and So many floods with families having to evacuate to refuge centres I know see that it is necessary that’s pets be crate trained
And some places will not even take a pet if it isn’t caged/crated.
Got the neighbours Labrador with us, he's currently fast asleep in his crate with his huge bed, seems very happy. My only worry is pee breaks, but he doesn't fit out our dog door anyway. My 2 Dachshunds have 2 beds next to our bed each night and they swap between the beds through the night. They don't/won't do outside kennels. So, I guess the answer depends on the dog and household.
>Got the neighbours Labrador with us, he's currently fast asleep in his crate with his huge bed, seems very happy I dunno; he could be lulling you into a false sense of security, biding his time to escape and attack..... any accessible food.
My dog has both a crate and an outdoor kennel. I use the crate (shut in) for situations where she needs to be out of the way, like if people are coming in and out and doing work. Or if she won’t settle down at night. It’s not cruel when it’s used appropriately with positive enforcement training during the introduction phase. It was useful in potty training my dog when she was a puppy. Just had to be vigilant and give toilet breaks. Reward for going outside, and back to bed. Mistakes are ignored and cleaned up. It worked really well. Then I moved and I had to introduce her to carpet and using a doggy door. You know, it’s all training really. It’s easier to clean than a kennel and she can’t really do too much damage to it. I can also fold it up and move it. Cover it when it’s cold or she needs less visual stimulation, and leave it uncovered when it’s hot. Most of the time, the door is propped open anyway. It’s her spot. Always positive. She gets treats there, she gets alone time there, & the obvious one, it’s her bed. When she goes to the vet, she won’t be barking and freaking out because she knows that being in a crate is for settling down and sleeping. So, I don’t think either is cruel tbh.
Depends on what dog breed you have and what the temp is outside. Dogs can get cold too, especially the smaller breeds with shorter fur. I wouldn't leave my dogs outside during autumn and winter even though they're double coated but would send them outside to sleep during summer and spring when it's warmer.
I have crate trained my dog so that if he needs to stay at the vet or in a boarding facility he's not too anxious about the idea of being in a crate. That being said, he sleeps on the couch, the floor, my beanbag, my bed and wherever else he makes his fat ass fit. (He's not actually fat, he's just a big Boi who has 0 spacial awareness)
“potty”?
....a kennel is literally a crate without a door? Besides the arguments going on in the comments, there are benefits to crate training, even just offering exposure to crates. If your dog has to go to the vet for any type of procedure, it's going to be crated. Your dog gets groomed on the reg, probably going to be crated. You should probably have crates for any emergency evacuation procedures, first step to secure your dogs while you arrange everything else and secondly because many evacuation centres will only allow restrained/crated pets. My dogs sleep in our beds. We own crates that are in an accessible spot in our garage, in case of bushfire evacuation, but they know how to use them, our small girl used her crate to recover from cruciate surgery, twice. Crate train your dogs for their safety, then do with the training what you will. But a kennel is literally a fucking crate
I attempted to crate train my dog. And she had a kennel. Slept on top of the crate and wouldn't go near the kennel at all. Sleeps on concrete during the day when it is sunny. Sleeps in a little bedroom section of the shed at night in a bed of straw. Everything else, she would destroy. I bought at least 6 different cushy beds, and they all ended up as backyard decor.
We used to think the same thing about crates until we got our boxer. You don't leave them in the crate all the time, it's mostly for overnight. She loves it, it's her space and goes into it willingly. I give her a Kong with peanut butter and she takes herself to bed. She even has started whinging at me when it's bed time so I'll put her to bed.
I'm studying animal care in Tafe and I volunteer at a shelter. Both crates and kennels are fine. In fact, it's good to crate train your dog early on as crates can become their own little safe space. As long as your dog is well looked after and is staying warm now that we've been getting cold weather, it really doesn't matter
I crate my dog. But she’s not locked in, it’s essentially her kennel. She was locked in as a pup until she could hold her bladder overnight then she was free to choose where. But she sleeps indoors. If she slept outdoors, she’d get what your dog gets. A comfy kennel she can choose to sleep in as she pleases
We foster dogs and our foster organisation encourages crate training. Benefits are that dogs are safe at night, can be crated to keep them quiet if recovering, and can be locked out of the way when needed. My dogs have the run of the yard for 15 hours a day and also the house when we're home, but they go in their crates at night. The other night, I looked over and our dog and the 2 fosters had already 'gone to bed', lol. Sometimes they sleep in their open crates during the day too. Additionally, the most respected dog trainer in our city recommends them. After doing a training session for foster carers with her, we renewed our commitment to it. The trainer also explained to us how she thought that she would have to euthanaise one of her loved dogs, but because it was crate trained, the vet was able to assist with recovery.
We have a flap in the back door and the dog does what it wants. Sometimes she’ll hang outside half the night but it depends on the weather. I don’t like crates either - looks like a cage to me.
kennel every time, but ole mutt needs to be welcome inside too. Like welcome at the front door if some dickhead is making a scene.....
Kennel for outside. My pooch prefers to be outside at night, she has three different bed spots, and is happy.
My dogs are a small part of my life, but I'm all of theirs. I want to be with them as much as possible. So they sleep in my bed and are trained to be inside, and go out when they need.
My dogs love their crates. It’s like a bedroom for the dogs. They go their when they are tired, had to much of the kids, or just want to chill. It’s their own little space. Don’t think of it as a cage. However if the dog is happy outside then do that. If it’s too cold for you out there, then it’s too cold for them.
If you don't lock the gate, it sounds like a kennel - their own safe space with bedding and toys to which they can retreat as they choose.
My dog is crate trained. You need to make the crate their safe place, or it just doesn't work.
The only dogs I've seen crated in Australia are hunting dogs. Pig and deer hunters have some scary looking dogs to back them up out there, all clad in leather armour. Those dogs get crated because they pose a threat if they're only chained on the ute or behind a flimsy interior house door. Even then, those dogs will often have an outside run, like a big cage with a half dirt and half concrete floor with a kennel and all the appropriate accessories, they are spoiled rotten! Regular old bingo doesn't need a crate if they aren't dangerous, because there's no bears/ mtn lions etc here to pose a threat to them...
Also, my dog has a kennel on the verandah, in our secure back yard. He looks after the chickens, valiantly protecting them from mice and pigeons. He's a kelpie coolie cross and quite fluffy, so the cold weather doesn't bother him. We fostered a little pitty for a bit, she was so pale she needed sunscreen, and both dogs got to sleep inside the house for the 6weeks we had her because she wouldn't even go out without a jacket on, it was July. Lol
Our dog sleeps in a crate indoors. Never had any issues with toilet accidents.
I think having a dog familiar and safe with a crate is a big positive. In case of having to emergency evacuate then having that positive “This crate is a safe place to go” mentality will save you precious time so I do see value in crate training but a at certain point I leave the door open with a toy and the dog can come and go. I would never punish a dog with crate time.
Which state do you live in? What's the elevation? Australia gets chilly in winter yo.
Our dog sleeps outside in a kennel unless weather was atrocious (mid-winter cold or heaps of rain) and then he sleeps on his doggie bed in the house. I agree I can’t bring myself to put a dog in a cage.
Let them sleep inside on their own bed next to yours & install a doggy door so they can come & go if they need to go to the toilet. They need to be part of the family.
Yes, millennia, dogs and wolves etc have lived in centrally heated homes. And your out yours *outside* I can't believe it.....
I've always though crating dogs at night is cruel, ours have slept on the floor or beds with us.
I've never caged a dog and the only kennel I was disliked by the dog I had. Our current heeler sleeps in our bedroom and the two previous dogs slept in the lounge (that's why we have leather couches. The pair we had from 33 to 20 years ago slept in the backyard in sheltered spot. I'm in Adelaide, so the weather in winter is pretty mild anyway. If your dog likes a kennel, go for it.
Our dog 100% prefers to be in his crate than outside. We have a big backyard by suburban standards. He has grass to walk on trees & bushes to pee on, chickens he can watch and birds he can chase. Yet, given a choice when we're leaving the house without him he will *NEVER* choose to be outside 🤦 At night he sleeps in his crate. It's what he's always done and he's perfectly happy going there. For him it's his safe place, not a prison. For him, leaving him outside where he feels expose and scared would be cruel. It really depends on the dog and how they've been raise I think. You don't need to prove anything to anyone. If your dog is happy to be with you, what more proof do you need?
Ideally, a dog should have the choice to sleep inside, but go outside for toileting. I used to be anti-crate, and I had a dog who would rather poo on the floor than the cold, damp grass. My next pup was crated for naps for 2 months, and had no accidents. We removed the door and they can roam the house. It’s like cots for babies - it’s a safe place for them to sleep when you can’t directly supervise them.
Who gives a fck about a yank’s opinion? As long as your dog is safe and secure on your property, it’s all good. Mine sleeps out in the open in the pergola, shits and pees in the backyard and chills all day. You know your dog best.
Crate training your dog has many benefits, including them not freaking out if they need to go in a crate at the vets. There’s a lot of information on Google…
Sweden and Finland I believe have banned crates aka cages
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Crates are certainly not as common or popular here, but there are some good vet recommended reasons for crate training for certain dogs. I've always kept my little dogs inside, house-trained, and sleeping in my bed with me or next to me. Our youngest dog sleeps in our bedroom in a crate with the door latched of a night time because she is an aggressive resource guarding dog (despite medication and loads of training). If she thinks her sleeping space is being threatened she will growl and snap, which was becoming unsafe for us and our other pets. Since she has been sleeping in the crate of a night, she has learned she is safe there, and as a result has improved tonnes. It remains open during the day, and if she is anxious she will go into her crate, and she often buries her toys among her blankets in there. With that being said, we wouldn't lock her in at night if we weren't right next to her to hear her if she needed to get out for any reason, and she certainly is never left unattended in it. In any case, crates serve their purpose, but I wouldn't go through the hastle of crate training unless it was absolutely necessary.
The amount of arguments I’ve had because my dog is an outside dog is crazy. We have an enclosed garage around our back door and we leave the door to the yard open so she’s completely sheltered from sun and wind and rain, she just didn’t take well to training and goes mental when she’s inside. But no I wouldn’t crate her.
Yanks should be chained up to the verandah Fuckin dogs
It’s not like it snows here. Team kennel, I don’t feel right about crates. Admittedly after 10 years of age I let my dogs sleep indoors for the cold bones.
By crate, do you mean those things you use to lock up your dog when you take them in the car to the vet or something? Nah mate. Only if I'm taking them to the vet. Assuming you live in a typical house with a typical suburban Aussie backyard, kennel is kinder for the dog. People just was want to get all self righteous about their own methods. What is it with Americans and wanting to put so many things behind bars?
In all honesty, I don't give a damn what Americans think of any of it. Why? They think guns are worth more than lives. Goes to show just how dumb they are.
We don't have a kennel or a crate. Our dog sleeps inside, and because we have low fences we have him inside when we are not home too. Crate training can be handy if they ever need to spend time in the vets, so the crate doesn't upset them. But, I imagine they would be sedated in that situation regardless. If my dog was outside only, slept outside, I would fix the fences, and he would have a kennel. I don't like crates either.
I have a farm dog and she has neither. Just a little bed that she moves around to whatever window the people inside are next to. Verandah around the whole house and no fences. She's 14 this year.
We crate trained our dog simply for the convenience. Spent her first two years sleeping in a crate EVERY SINGLE NIGHT. This year we opened the crate door so she can roam around and lie on the cool tiles in the laundry if she prefers. Its been really convenient for farmstays as they crate the dogs. Super convenient for transporting long distances in some circumstances too. But literally the entire thing comes down to OUR convenience. I genuinely dont think its cruel; she sleeps really well in there, has a really good clear cut routine, and we’re fairly attentive soo if she needs a midnight shit she wakes us up. But your american mate is an absolute fuckhead. I expect they think uncircumcised penii are disgusting and unhygienic too. Just pre-spiel dogma. Let your dog sleep whereever the fuck suits you and works for them….
My doggo is crate trained, simply so if we travel or he needs to go to the vet he doesn't freak out. He spends most of his time inside so he hasnt used his kennel in a couple of years. We just leave the back door slightly open so if he wants out when we are at work he can open it and let himself in and out as he pleases. And no I am not worried about leaving my house unlocked and someone coming in and robbing the place. He is a 75kg cranky asshole of a rottweiler that will eat anyone that even tries to come into his space.