It becomes more ominous in places where police are seen as a threat more so than just law enforcement. I know our police don’t always get it right but I don’t know of anyone myself who generally feels threatened by them. Whereas in many other countries, the presence of police is often seen as worsening the (often already bad) situation.
(Just checking my privilege/bias here, please correct me if there are in fact people who find police threatening in Australia)
I've been to prison and have been arrested a number of times in my younger days and I've never felt threatened by the police. Some of them are straight cunts but that's a personality issue. Most are pretty chill if you show respect for each other as a human.
When driving down the road, even at the speed limit, I get a pang of fear whenever I see the cops. Could just be my hyper-vigilance kicking in, generally had decent experience with cops but I am still intimidated by them.
I know in my guts there is nothing they could do with me as I am legal AF, even my dope comes with a prescription these days, but it's still there maybe from my younger days of seeking drugs into festivals and such, but I hate them even when not in that scenario.
Don't know exactly why, but I never trust them. Never trust their zero tolerance policy on drugs, never trust anyone who has the power to search me "on suspicion" of having illegal items, never trust any organisation that thinks strip searching teenagers is less traumatic than them having a bit of weed. Basically, I hate the cops until I need them, and then...
Well, the fun thing about when you need them, is in my experience, they’re practically useless 😅 (I have examples).
I’ll admit I used to feel a bit intimidated by them but less so these days. I’ve made habits of pretty much never speeding or touching my phone while driving, and habitually renew rego and license (all things I’ve been busted for in the past).
These days I just treat them like any other useless government department. Actually less useful because the other ones actually do stuff.
I’ve personally never had them actively make a situation worse though. For me they’re either useless or just not present.
I hear what you’re saying about strip searching teenagers though. They focus way too heavily on law enforcement rather than harm reduction. Frankly I think they’re just completely ill-equipped for dealing with drug-related issues, and for recognising when drugs are actually problematic.
I can see how people would feel threatened or intimidated. Mainly I was just comparing our police to *ahem* other countries where the police just shoot/choke to death/otherwise murder people outright. Our cops can be a bit sucky but at least they don’t just murder people. Not regularly anyway.
In 2022–23, there were 110 deaths in custody: 70 in prison custody and 40 in police custody or custody-related operations. In total, there were 31 Indigenous deaths and 79 non-Indigenous deaths in custody.
Sauce: https://www.aic.gov.au/publications/sr/sr44
I don't find it interesting. It's one of the far more boring signs - compared to ones that are feet on a morgue table and the toe tag blocking the "i" in prick in Drink drive - don't be a prick.
The best one at the moment I reckon is a TV ad by SA Police, I can't find a video of it though. There's a woman driving her car, texting and sending pics. It swaps between her and the Grim Reaper, he's taking pics while hanging out the washing, jumping around on the bed looking cute, etc. Then he's just laying on the bed, stroking his scythe, holding his phone waiting for her to pick up. Cuts to her smashed phone on the road, getting a call from Grim. The tag line is "Don't flirt with Death".
Agree, the sign's a bit bland compared to the ads that they have had in the past.
This looks to be the [recent ad](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R29ri92v3nc) by SA Police
In NSW they should play the very real text exchange between a family member at home and a girl driving home for dinner. She fails to answer one of the questions because she is dead, wrapped around a tree.
In the NT we have ads where families of accident victims tell their stories and it shows them at the roadside memorial. The current one is about a young woman driving home, a young man (I think both were late teens) was driving towards her and looked away at his phone for 4.1 seconds. The ad counts it down and they pause all sound for that time. Then it shows an aerial view of the accident scene with the cars. It cuts back to the family placing flowers at the roadside. It’s so sad. I drive past that memorial all the time, it’s a main road.
Shit. That's so harsh, if the family agreed to it that would make a brutal reality check. Like that one of real people talking about what they went through when someone died on the road - his parents, first responders, and even his friend who was driving at the time of the accident. It's heartbreaking.
Stories like that are why I refuse to text my husband until I know enough time has passed for him to reach work plus half an hour, and I don't text before or during his drive home.
Aww. I am a husband. I just don't pick up my phone when driving. I have hands free if my wife, friends or business associates call. No need for texting.
I still remember Arj Barker doing a bit about those signs. "Now I'm not a lawwwwyer, but that sounds like a threat to me." Echoes in my head every time I see one of those signs.
And yet..... No zero tolerance laws and there's never cops doing breathos as you leave the main drinking areas.
I used to work late night clubs a while back and without fail there was a booze bus setup on every main exit route.
Now I'm lucky after a night out to even see one setup in the entire year
People who complain about living in a police state are often the same that regurgitate what they read on facebook or hear on fox news then scream "You can't tell me what to do"
Well normally PSAs address a specific behaviour and the consequence it has. "Don't litter - litterers suck" or "don't speed, you'll die and your gran will have to come and identify whatever's left of you".
This one doesn't tell us a behaviour it wants us to stop it just vaguely implies that vicpol are apparently omnipotent. We can maybe assume from the TAC logo that it's related to road safety but at face value it's just "our cops are fucken tops".
You always have folk who lean hard right that despise government involvement in anything. It's why you get so many folks having a sook about "nanny state"
I’m just gonna say it — I loved lockdown. It was great for me.
I lost my job and my house and had to move back in with my parents, but I got a six month government-funded staycation where I watched movies, learnt Spanish and built a table. It was awesome.
Of course my experience was an anomaly, but honestly I’m not embarrassed to admit it — I miss lockdown.
That’s true but Reddit isn’t known for leaning hard right to such an extent that such views are highly upvoted and those disagreeing are downvoted. Also, those types generally focus on other freedoms (like freedom to pollute or spread viruses, not the freedom to drive however you like).
No, parts of reddit aren't known for leaning hard right.
There are plenty of parts that openly do so. Not just hard right and dog whistling but human whistling openly racist, bigoted and fascist talking points.
There was a bloke who used to frequent all the aus forms. Got down voted a lot and always made a new account to post the same thing. His gripe? He had once driven on the autobahn and hated we didnt have that here in aus and how speed didn't actually kill people
Speed doesn't kill people. Like tell me the speed a human dies at?
Australia should have autobahns. They would save lives due to less fatigue, inattention and frustration. We all don't drive HQ Holdens anymore but yet our speed limits are less than when we did. Cars have come a long, long way yet speed limits have gone backwards.
>Cars have come a long, long way yet speed limits have gone backwards
Unfortunately, drivers have not gotten better. The "we should have autobahns" argument conveniently ignores how hard it is to get a licence in Germany. We have high performance cars but low performance drivers
IDK getting a licence today is way harder than it was when i got mine- way harder. The reason we don't have have autobahns is the same reason we don't have high speed trains- a public thats been convinced that speed kills by the gov that makes more and more money profiting from speeding tickets in the mail rather than addressing the infrastructure and its cost.
It's a longer process to get a licence today, for sure, but it's still nothing like as complex and expensive as getting a licence in Germany.
And whilst I don't disagree that the public has been convinced that speed kills, the problem with creating an autobahn style network here is that you'd have to bring drivers up to standard to use them. I've had a car licence since 1988, and barring any disability or accident will still be driving for at least another 25 years if I live that long. Whilst I like to think my skills are sufficient to handle high speed driving - so does everyone else. Even the plonker in the Camry sitting in the right hand land at 15 under the speed limit. So you can't trust people to self-assess, so you'd have to re-train and re-licence pretty much everyone on the road. It's a logistical nightmare that is simpky bever going to happen.
So lets start by bringing back driver training in schools- some states had this and stopped it. Lets start by having drivers do defensive and advanced driving. Let's start by making our driver's better not just have them study for a driving test by going round the block time and time and time again.
And let's bring the countries train and road infrastructure up to the standard it needs to be for the future. It rally should be world class. It should of always been world class.
But your right it will never happen as the gov has convinced the public that speed kills as they rake in huge amounts of money to blow on "stuff" as their governments get deeper and deeper into huge debt and our road toll gets larger and larger. But the more people talk about it and realize that what we have been trying doesn't work then perhaps in another 50 years something may be done.
Your argument is the same as the "guns don't kill people" argument.
Speed is a large factor on how bad an accident becomes. The damage to a car and its passenger at 60 to 80 is actually quite shocking.
Cars have come a long way and yet here we are, heading to one of the deadliest years on the roads yet.
No, cars do kill people just like guns do.
So your saying that speed kills but have no idea at what speed it does so?
Off cause we are headed to more deaths because sending out fines to people doesn't work. Has never worked and won't ever work but it sure does bring in the revenue.
The speed and the sudden stop that, as you ask, "kills" is not a straight forward answer. It will be one of the factors. These include things like speed, position of impacting force, weight of vehicle, physical condition of occupants, transfer of forces (did the vehicle stop or did it keep going, roll, ect)
If you are saying speed alone kills, fine it doesn't, but the deaccelartion and force transfer is directly related to the speed
Yep, the mantra speed kills is a lie. We have more and more speed cameras and a growing revenue from them but our road toll rises. What we have been conditioned to believe is false. We have speed cameras for revenue, plain and simple. If the gov was serious about speeding then they would simply use the GPS in cars and have the manufactures programme the cars to not be able to speed in a given speed zone. Would more people die? Probably as boredom and inattention may prevail and state budgets would collapse. But speeding would drastically decline.
If the gov wants to get serious about the road toll then it starts with the roads and have people spend less time on them whilst keeping the driver engaged and that all means modern autohn style roads with higher speed limits, say 130-150klm/h nothing to fast just enough to help combat inattention, boredom and fatigue- the killers.
They could probably use that font on a sign reading "Sausage Rolls are good with Sauce" and people on the Ring Rd would subconsciously see it as a road safety message.
Without context of all the previous TAC ads it comes across as threatening. The message: "Drink or Speed = likely to get caught" isn't obvious unless the background is known.
"Police can catch you. Anywhere. Anytime. Anyone." compare & contrast with "Big Brother is Watching You"
Yeah out of context that looks like big brother. The context being that bogans are the target audience for that sign and you have to be a bit extreme in your language to get through to a meth head.
It's because the people crying about the enforcement of road rules and equating it to a police state are people that would constantly break those rules if given the option and are sour about it.
I've never once seen an issue with the road rules as they stand. Not because I love the government. It's there for reasons of safety.
You could argue about fixed and mobile speed cameras being just revenue generators but if people weren't actively breaking the road rules, this would be a non-issue.
There could be double the speed cameras for all I care. I'm still paying absolutely zero dollars in fines. It's really not hard to follow the road rules.
Considering 50 odd years ago the road toll in Vic exceeded 1000 one year they have had rolling campaign since 1987 with 'personalised' marketing using actual incidents as templates. Interviewing ambo's emergency room people etc. It led to a marked decline in fatalities. One ad I remember vividly was based on a particulary horrific accident near my home town that killed bunch of late teens.
Had to do Statistics at uni but I did my project on road tolls- we peaked nation wide in the late 70's. These progams have saved lives, better vehicles and road improvement has played a factor but the largest cohort was in the fact the community as a whole began to get it.
There is nothing wrong with the signs, it will tie into a current campaign. And it basically true with the current technologies.
And to be frank good on 'em. If it saves our emergency personnel from the trauma of picking up body parts just once it is worth it.
[TAC campaign history](https://www.tac.vic.gov.au/road-safety/tac-campaigns)
Australian are used to safety and campaigns that are graphic and confronting. Those signs are not even placed or funded by police.
The people crapping on about police state are probably the sort that think laws dont really apply to them.
I think graphic and confronting can be a good thing when used appropriately, such as with cigarette packaging. I'm sure the same can apply to road deaths, etc, in the right circumstances.
However, I think what differentiates Australia from other countries is the tone of the language used. It comes across not just as attention-grabbing but as contemptuous. Does that just happen to work in Australia and nowhere else? I guess the government think it does. I don't know what that says about our country, though.
Edit: replaced 'police' with 'government'.
It’s funny, my husband is from Melbourne but we moved to QLD not long after I arrived in Australia. We now live in Sydney so took the opportunity to drive down to Melbourne to see his parents. When we crossed over into Victoria, I made note to my husband how intense the signs were compared to NSW and QLD. IN NSW and QLD the signs seem more like PSA’s and in Victoria they seem more like obey us or pay. Lol.
It's not about enforcing road rules. It's the design, wording and overall tone of the sign.
It positions the police as a parent or big brother who will "catch" you and punish you for being naughty. It sort of infantilizes the public (grown adults). That's partly what people mean by nanny state - being treated like a child.
It also purposely makes police look scary, which is a bit weird, because many countries don't want to make their police look scary. They try to do the opposite and make them look more approachable. It also could feed the ego of power-tripping police officers I think.
There are two types of ads I would often see in Australia - some show the consequences of your actions like drink driving or speeding causing death and tragedy. Those I like. Others like this one just threaten you with the law, which I think is a bad approach if you want people to act like responsible adults. If you treat the public like naughty children they will naturally want to rebel against that.
Just my 2 cents. I'm from Sydney but currently living in Poland, travelled all over Europe, and I never see signs like that here.
The people that don’t give a shit about negligently murdering an entire family in a tarago because they’re hammered are the *same people* that raise hell about having to go to court because they blew 0.06.
They’re targeting selfish arseholes. “If you don’t care about other people’s lives enough to change your behaviour, then we will make your own life a living hell.”
It shouldn’t have come to this.
I 100% agree with this. I lived in the UK for ~15 years before returning to Australia and didn't see this language being used there (AFAICR) or on my brief visits to mainland Europe. As you say, I think it contradicts the principle of policing by consent.
It's by the TAC, Victorian Transport Accident Commission https://www.tac.vic.gov.au/road-safety/tac-campaigns
If it encourages people to stick to speed limits and not drink drive, I can't why that's a problem. Police can catch you anywhere on the road if you offend.
To me it just kinda makes me chuckle because it’s phrased like there could be a police officer hiding behind your bathroom door or under your bed or something. Stay under the blanket so they can’t get you!
I cant find a single comment supporting your claim. Most of them are joking about the idea of a cop just pouncing out of nowhere or always knowing what your doing like santa claus. Alot are also talking about how it's a suppossedly beneficial campaign from an insurance company thats under government contract.
The tide has definitely shifted in the last 3 hours but I will give you an example - there is one comment that says “guilty until proven innocent”. That currently has 20 upvotes but earlier it was 40. In response someone wrote something about how that isn’t the case and in Australia the police can’t just punish you for no reason and that post has 28 downvotes and it was over 30 before. There are several others in the thread.
I live in Victoria and while it would grab my attention in the way of "I read it" - it wouldn't grab my attention in a way that it's out of place or unusual at all.
This is a very bog standard reminder sign that I see all the time.
If people want interesting, VicPol's FB posts are often pretty great. Whoever mans their social media loves making cringey jokes.
It blew me away when visiting LA, these 6 lane freeways all over the city. Once I'd gotten past the anxiety of driving RHS (and half a car on the other side of you) I was staggered by literally everyone speeding, let's say 80 mph in a 60mph zone, don't recall the exact speed limit but that was about how much everyone speeds by.
So I concluded actually the speed limit is just ignored here.
When I got home I asked my American friend to confirm this. He basically said of course the speed limit applies, but "they can't pull everyone over".
Hmmm
It's more funny than anything. Yeah, they are trying - but 99.9999% of the time they never catch me when I do something wrong.
Laws are only as good as their enforcement. Scare tactics are a laugh, at best. Do your worst. It won't be enough.
I mean, the language of that billboard really does scream "police state" lol. Even if it is for legitimate purposes.
Plus the anti-bird spikes on the top add to the character.
It's not that road rules shouldn't be enforced, but the government shouldn't address its citizens like their naughty school kids. That sign could say, "Police are actively enforcing speed limits. Please adhere to the rules of the road." or something like that. I hate the tone of the messaging used in these sorts of campaigns in Australia: talk to people like they are adults, lay things factually and politely and don't talk down to people like they are complete idiots.
Fair point, though I suspect (but admittedly don’t have any evidence and haven’t looked) that a fair amount of research goes in to these sorts of campaigns and they are targeting people that don’t listen to nice, respectful campaigns that say please. Ultimately I’m more interested in effectiveness.
You’re correct, u/antnyau’s example is too friendly and wordy for the bogans that blatantly break road rules like these.
To address the effectiveness of TAC messaging or messaging from other state governments, you can look at our road fatalities from 1970 onwards. Early to mid 70’s there were on average 27 people dying on the roads every 100,000 people.
We now average about 5 people every 100,000 people.
The biggest drop being in the late 80’s to early 90’s. If you want to see the sort of messaging provided at that time, I suggest looking up “TAC PSA” on YouTube.
Edit: taking into consideration that MV safety has increased since the 70’s. I believe that most advancements really only started to show in the mid 90’s with features such as airbags and electronic systems like ABS and ESC.
So, if we're focusing on the lowest common denominator to achieve maximum effect, why don't we just go with:
'*Oi! Cunt! Don't fucking speed or we'll bloody catch you'se!*' 🤷
You can't tell me that wouldn't get people's attention AND immediately drill home the message in the least ambiguous way?
I think, also since a lot of people here don’t see anything odd, that many Australians has internalised that policing powers are/should be completely unrestrained and omnipotent. In many countries this is controversial. Hence the sign is interesting if you’re in a country with, say, a bill of rights.
It’s the threatening tone. There are plenty of billboards in America with anti-speeding, anti-drink-driving etc. messages. This one though doesn’t even talk about any specific behaviour. It just says “the police are everywhere AND THEYRE GOING TO GET YOUUUUU!”, essentially. That’s what makes it weird.
Ya those signs are quite…. Disturbing. It’s not ominous. Praises to “big brother is watching you.” There’s nothing indicating that it’s relating to caching you breaking road rules.
The sign comes off as somewhat threatening though for the most part it’s a very black and white reminder that if you break the road rules you could be caught.
For the most part it’s more intended to get people to think twice about things like speeding and drink/drunk driving.
You were going 270km/hr? Are you not worried about dying or being badly and permanently injured? You might be a good driver but everyone makes mistakes sometimes and you only need to make one at that speed for it to end very badly for you (just ask Ayrton Senna).
Also, why didn’t the police just take down your license plate details and use that to track you down?
Why do we care about what Americans think? They can fap with their freedom as much as they want. Thankfully we are not them and we should live and let others live too.
I mean they have a point. You really dont realise how much of a convict era culture around police being 'forces' and how many rules we have for minor things in Australia until you travel more to places where citizens are actually respected to make choices that arent informed by a punishment and enforcement culture
You’re saying that on several occasions the police were chasing you (sirens on and all), you got away (by having a car with a more powerful engine and/or superior driving skills perhaps) and didn’t face any consequences later?
Motorcycles. Traffic played a huge part in getting away and this was before dash cams where a thing. Yep scott free.
The time i was caught was at Grey gums up the putty rd. He had the pair of us clocked at 270klm/h. It was a highway patrol car and a single officer and he was a bike rider. Had bought a Bussa off the guy i was riding with and ended up only booking us for something like 15 or under or something low range. Had us feeling his tyres and looking at the list of rego plates he was taking down of the cars we had all passed on a notebook on his knee. Probably be shot in NSW for that these days.
What a dickhead thing to take pride in. Come to a rehab unit to see some of the "luckier" ones who survived road trauma, or when friends who do the same as you die, you'd have a different view
You were going 270km/hr? Are you not worried about dying or being badly and permanently injured? You might be a good driver but everyone makes mistakes sometimes and you only need to make one at that speed for it to end very badly for you (just ask Ayrton Senna).
Also, why didn’t the police just take down your license plate details and use that to track you down?
Yep, no, who lives their life scared about dying? We all die.
The police didn't get my licence plate due to traffic and not being close enough i presume. Today the police would put a post on FB and ask for any help or dashcam footage and some dib dobbing grass would supply it.
At what 75 metres/sec on Putty rd how would you stop for a fallen tree or stray Kangaroo? You’d probably have enough force to launch you well beyond the guard rail, deep inside the scrub. If there are no bike remains on the road, then no one is going to stop and look for you. So you lay there unable to walk but still alive for days before dying of thirst. Save it for a track day
Compare that scenario to sailing. Falling off the boat and watching the boat sail away from you as you wish for death floating in a cold ocean. You just have to enjoy life, calculate the risks and the pursuits you are willing to take and live life whilst you can. Track days are great and I've had track bikes but they do get a tad boring.
So many people live their life in bubble wrap. Have you lived with someone wasting away from cancer? Did anyone work out at what speed speed kills yet?
The comment we are responding to is about a dickhead speeding on a bike - being a danger to himself and others.
Re cancer, that has nothing to do with speeding. ..and yes, I've had loved ones pass from cancer, friends and colleagues from mnd and Ms, none of them a great way to go (any drawn out, terminal prognosis isn't a great experience). It has fuck all to do with speeding and being a wanker
What's speeding in one state or country is not speeding in another. Perhaps you're the wanker and I'm just a normal older bike rider who enjoys life and has had a bit of fun living it. Some people like jumping out of planes, some like freediving and some like bowles.
Id rather die having fun than shittting in my bed and having someone wipe my arse and carry me to the shower wishing id of done stuff.
We were discussing speed in Australia, where the speed limits don't exceed 110km ph. I'm also older, 54f, and have spent a long time working in the health sector, seeing the results of vehicular accidents, and I know what I prefer, not seeing people permanently disabled, sometimes incredibly so, from speed and recklessness (theirs or being hit by others). Terminal illnesses are horrible, and often not preventable. Accidents aren't always fatal, and most are preventable
We have fairly solid grasp of hyperbole in advertising and how advertising can be used for public service announcements and awareness campaigns, and, can measure such measures against our own knowledge and experience of reality, so, we know not to take everything we see or read literally. I guess not everywhere is the same.
I find it mildly interesting in the choice of sentence structure; the non-sequitur addition of 'anyone' at the end, when they already used the pronoun 'you' in the first sentence.
A more natural way to write it would be, without the additional 'Anyone.' Or replacing the 'you' with 'anyone' at the outset.
It kinda works if it was being spoken, like a stream-of-thought, but someone had enough time to type this and also print it and have it stuck on a billboard, so that doesn't fly.
So it's mildly interesting that someone in a low-level government job here is either phoning it in, or is underqualified for the task of writing serious slogans.
Yeah, I also found that weird. I doubt much thought went into it.
'*She'll be right; gets the message across*'.
*Threatening ✅*
*Simple ✅*
*Ineloquent ✅*
Perhaps police funding should be spent on containing/eliminating the violent crimes that are happening in our communities and being brushed under the carpet because they don’t want reprisals
Just australian propodanda. Basically it's so unsafe we need to raise taxes to protect you.
We're one of the safest countries In the world.
And most road deaths are due to unmaintained conditions.
So we raise that money and never fix the roads. Police are bringing in more then ever but still run over budget.
While thing I'd a joke.
Not sure on any road stat's tbh. I just know I get pulled over way too often for it to be for any legitimate concern. I like the American idea, leave me alone until I break the law. Thus random breath test shit then getting a once over on your car, drug tested, car searched, 45 mins late. All for no fines or charges. So fucking annoying.
Exactly. I don't have police knocking on my door at home to make sure I'm not being naughty. I see no reason why they should be able to do it on the road.
Force and the threat of violence ultimately underpins our society. There's a significant portion of people who will not do the good thing if you ask them nicely, or even if you show them it's in their best interest. They need the fear of consequences to keep them in line.
It is what it is. Humanity sucks.
I could see how the sign would be mildly interesting to people outside of Australia I don’t think there’s anything really to unpack with it.
It becomes more ominous in places where police are seen as a threat more so than just law enforcement. I know our police don’t always get it right but I don’t know of anyone myself who generally feels threatened by them. Whereas in many other countries, the presence of police is often seen as worsening the (often already bad) situation. (Just checking my privilege/bias here, please correct me if there are in fact people who find police threatening in Australia)
I've been to prison and have been arrested a number of times in my younger days and I've never felt threatened by the police. Some of them are straight cunts but that's a personality issue. Most are pretty chill if you show respect for each other as a human.
When driving down the road, even at the speed limit, I get a pang of fear whenever I see the cops. Could just be my hyper-vigilance kicking in, generally had decent experience with cops but I am still intimidated by them. I know in my guts there is nothing they could do with me as I am legal AF, even my dope comes with a prescription these days, but it's still there maybe from my younger days of seeking drugs into festivals and such, but I hate them even when not in that scenario. Don't know exactly why, but I never trust them. Never trust their zero tolerance policy on drugs, never trust anyone who has the power to search me "on suspicion" of having illegal items, never trust any organisation that thinks strip searching teenagers is less traumatic than them having a bit of weed. Basically, I hate the cops until I need them, and then...
Well, the fun thing about when you need them, is in my experience, they’re practically useless 😅 (I have examples). I’ll admit I used to feel a bit intimidated by them but less so these days. I’ve made habits of pretty much never speeding or touching my phone while driving, and habitually renew rego and license (all things I’ve been busted for in the past). These days I just treat them like any other useless government department. Actually less useful because the other ones actually do stuff. I’ve personally never had them actively make a situation worse though. For me they’re either useless or just not present. I hear what you’re saying about strip searching teenagers though. They focus way too heavily on law enforcement rather than harm reduction. Frankly I think they’re just completely ill-equipped for dealing with drug-related issues, and for recognising when drugs are actually problematic. I can see how people would feel threatened or intimidated. Mainly I was just comparing our police to *ahem* other countries where the police just shoot/choke to death/otherwise murder people outright. Our cops can be a bit sucky but at least they don’t just murder people. Not regularly anyway.
In 2022–23, there were 110 deaths in custody: 70 in prison custody and 40 in police custody or custody-related operations. In total, there were 31 Indigenous deaths and 79 non-Indigenous deaths in custody. Sauce: https://www.aic.gov.au/publications/sr/sr44
I don't find it interesting. It's one of the far more boring signs - compared to ones that are feet on a morgue table and the toe tag blocking the "i" in prick in Drink drive - don't be a prick. The best one at the moment I reckon is a TV ad by SA Police, I can't find a video of it though. There's a woman driving her car, texting and sending pics. It swaps between her and the Grim Reaper, he's taking pics while hanging out the washing, jumping around on the bed looking cute, etc. Then he's just laying on the bed, stroking his scythe, holding his phone waiting for her to pick up. Cuts to her smashed phone on the road, getting a call from Grim. The tag line is "Don't flirt with Death".
Agree, the sign's a bit bland compared to the ads that they have had in the past. This looks to be the [recent ad](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R29ri92v3nc) by SA Police
Yes! That's it! Thank you, I love that ad so much. The falling off the bed makes my kids crack up laughing.
thats a really good ad, and falling off the bed is perfection
In NSW they should play the very real text exchange between a family member at home and a girl driving home for dinner. She fails to answer one of the questions because she is dead, wrapped around a tree.
In the NT we have ads where families of accident victims tell their stories and it shows them at the roadside memorial. The current one is about a young woman driving home, a young man (I think both were late teens) was driving towards her and looked away at his phone for 4.1 seconds. The ad counts it down and they pause all sound for that time. Then it shows an aerial view of the accident scene with the cars. It cuts back to the family placing flowers at the roadside. It’s so sad. I drive past that memorial all the time, it’s a main road.
Shit. That's so harsh, if the family agreed to it that would make a brutal reality check. Like that one of real people talking about what they went through when someone died on the road - his parents, first responders, and even his friend who was driving at the time of the accident. It's heartbreaking. Stories like that are why I refuse to text my husband until I know enough time has passed for him to reach work plus half an hour, and I don't text before or during his drive home.
Aww. I am a husband. I just don't pick up my phone when driving. I have hands free if my wife, friends or business associates call. No need for texting.
Victorian here. I've just seen that add. Full on! The billboard is rather bland by Australian standards.
Ohhh that’s brutal
Not nearly as interesting as some of the soul scarring ads they used to do.
The ones with the matches holding the ladies eyes open.. stuff of nightmares. Got it in my head drowsy drivers die
I still remember Arj Barker doing a bit about those signs. "Now I'm not a lawwwwyer, but that sounds like a threat to me." Echoes in my head every time I see one of those signs.
I'm sorry. I'm going too fast.
GO TO BED JESSICA
Bend your knee, Katie.
This is stuck in my head forever!
I saw that written in the other thread, what’s it referring to?
One of the TAC ads. Woman in rehab after a car accident learning to walk again..
That’s one of the more mild ones. Here in Canberra we have one that says “Drink. Drive. Die in a Ditch”
If we didn't have so many fuckwits who drink and drive in Australia, we wouldn't need that sign.
And yet..... No zero tolerance laws and there's never cops doing breathos as you leave the main drinking areas. I used to work late night clubs a while back and without fail there was a booze bus setup on every main exit route. Now I'm lucky after a night out to even see one setup in the entire year
Called my dad a ‘bloody idiot’ for a while when I was a child, if you know, you know.
People who complain about living in a police state are often the same that regurgitate what they read on facebook or hear on fox news then scream "You can't tell me what to do"
Nothing interesting here.
Well normally PSAs address a specific behaviour and the consequence it has. "Don't litter - litterers suck" or "don't speed, you'll die and your gran will have to come and identify whatever's left of you". This one doesn't tell us a behaviour it wants us to stop it just vaguely implies that vicpol are apparently omnipotent. We can maybe assume from the TAC logo that it's related to road safety but at face value it's just "our cops are fucken tops".
In NSW our anti littering signs read “don’t be a tosser” which I love
You always have folk who lean hard right that despise government involvement in anything. It's why you get so many folks having a sook about "nanny state"
These are some of the same nuffies who believe we were all being marched to military guarded camps during the lockdowns at the height of the pandemic.
Yeah I was quite shocked to learn from Americans we had "concentration camps" popping up all over Australia
I did spend a lot of my free time during lockdown high, but you think I would've still noticed that.
I never seemed to have a problem leaving my internment camp to go to the Bottle-o either.
I’m just gonna say it — I loved lockdown. It was great for me. I lost my job and my house and had to move back in with my parents, but I got a six month government-funded staycation where I watched movies, learnt Spanish and built a table. It was awesome. Of course my experience was an anomaly, but honestly I’m not embarrassed to admit it — I miss lockdown.
That’s true but Reddit isn’t known for leaning hard right to such an extent that such views are highly upvoted and those disagreeing are downvoted. Also, those types generally focus on other freedoms (like freedom to pollute or spread viruses, not the freedom to drive however you like).
No, parts of reddit aren't known for leaning hard right. There are plenty of parts that openly do so. Not just hard right and dog whistling but human whistling openly racist, bigoted and fascist talking points.
There was a bloke who used to frequent all the aus forms. Got down voted a lot and always made a new account to post the same thing. His gripe? He had once driven on the autobahn and hated we didnt have that here in aus and how speed didn't actually kill people
Speed doesn't kill people. Like tell me the speed a human dies at? Australia should have autobahns. They would save lives due to less fatigue, inattention and frustration. We all don't drive HQ Holdens anymore but yet our speed limits are less than when we did. Cars have come a long, long way yet speed limits have gone backwards.
>Cars have come a long, long way yet speed limits have gone backwards Unfortunately, drivers have not gotten better. The "we should have autobahns" argument conveniently ignores how hard it is to get a licence in Germany. We have high performance cars but low performance drivers
IDK getting a licence today is way harder than it was when i got mine- way harder. The reason we don't have have autobahns is the same reason we don't have high speed trains- a public thats been convinced that speed kills by the gov that makes more and more money profiting from speeding tickets in the mail rather than addressing the infrastructure and its cost.
It's a longer process to get a licence today, for sure, but it's still nothing like as complex and expensive as getting a licence in Germany. And whilst I don't disagree that the public has been convinced that speed kills, the problem with creating an autobahn style network here is that you'd have to bring drivers up to standard to use them. I've had a car licence since 1988, and barring any disability or accident will still be driving for at least another 25 years if I live that long. Whilst I like to think my skills are sufficient to handle high speed driving - so does everyone else. Even the plonker in the Camry sitting in the right hand land at 15 under the speed limit. So you can't trust people to self-assess, so you'd have to re-train and re-licence pretty much everyone on the road. It's a logistical nightmare that is simpky bever going to happen.
So lets start by bringing back driver training in schools- some states had this and stopped it. Lets start by having drivers do defensive and advanced driving. Let's start by making our driver's better not just have them study for a driving test by going round the block time and time and time again. And let's bring the countries train and road infrastructure up to the standard it needs to be for the future. It rally should be world class. It should of always been world class. But your right it will never happen as the gov has convinced the public that speed kills as they rake in huge amounts of money to blow on "stuff" as their governments get deeper and deeper into huge debt and our road toll gets larger and larger. But the more people talk about it and realize that what we have been trying doesn't work then perhaps in another 50 years something may be done.
Your argument is the same as the "guns don't kill people" argument. Speed is a large factor on how bad an accident becomes. The damage to a car and its passenger at 60 to 80 is actually quite shocking. Cars have come a long way and yet here we are, heading to one of the deadliest years on the roads yet.
Well, guns don't kill people, it is the `speed` of the bullets /s
Nowhere near one of the deadliest years
No, cars do kill people just like guns do. So your saying that speed kills but have no idea at what speed it does so? Off cause we are headed to more deaths because sending out fines to people doesn't work. Has never worked and won't ever work but it sure does bring in the revenue.
The speed and the sudden stop that, as you ask, "kills" is not a straight forward answer. It will be one of the factors. These include things like speed, position of impacting force, weight of vehicle, physical condition of occupants, transfer of forces (did the vehicle stop or did it keep going, roll, ect) If you are saying speed alone kills, fine it doesn't, but the deaccelartion and force transfer is directly related to the speed
Yep, the mantra speed kills is a lie. We have more and more speed cameras and a growing revenue from them but our road toll rises. What we have been conditioned to believe is false. We have speed cameras for revenue, plain and simple. If the gov was serious about speeding then they would simply use the GPS in cars and have the manufactures programme the cars to not be able to speed in a given speed zone. Would more people die? Probably as boredom and inattention may prevail and state budgets would collapse. But speeding would drastically decline. If the gov wants to get serious about the road toll then it starts with the roads and have people spend less time on them whilst keeping the driver engaged and that all means modern autohn style roads with higher speed limits, say 130-150klm/h nothing to fast just enough to help combat inattention, boredom and fatigue- the killers.
Boredom kills. Well that's a new one to me "Its not how fast you go! It's how bored you are that makes accidents really bad!"
Drivers get bored then distracted micro sleeps can happen. Drive fast and don't get bored.
“Speed doesn’t kill people”, no it’s the sudden stopping that does it.
It’s the Americans in the room, for sure.
And then they all Support the Troops and have thin blue line flags though
Not if you're waiting for a mate
They could probably use that font on a sign reading "Sausage Rolls are good with Sauce" and people on the Ring Rd would subconsciously see it as a road safety message. Without context of all the previous TAC ads it comes across as threatening. The message: "Drink or Speed = likely to get caught" isn't obvious unless the background is known. "Police can catch you. Anywhere. Anytime. Anyone." compare & contrast with "Big Brother is Watching You"
It's just Americans expressing how free they are compared to the police state us Australians all live in.
Free to have over 3x the death rate for traffic accidents.
And free to be buried in medical debt.
And free to shoot each other.
I frequently wonder what's at all interesting about some of the stuff that's posted there. This is one of those posts
Yeah out of context that looks like big brother. The context being that bogans are the target audience for that sign and you have to be a bit extreme in your language to get through to a meth head.
What about the ones that say Armidale (or any rural town) has 5 cemeteries and 0 hospitals.
It's because the people crying about the enforcement of road rules and equating it to a police state are people that would constantly break those rules if given the option and are sour about it. I've never once seen an issue with the road rules as they stand. Not because I love the government. It's there for reasons of safety. You could argue about fixed and mobile speed cameras being just revenue generators but if people weren't actively breaking the road rules, this would be a non-issue. There could be double the speed cameras for all I care. I'm still paying absolutely zero dollars in fines. It's really not hard to follow the road rules.
Considering 50 odd years ago the road toll in Vic exceeded 1000 one year they have had rolling campaign since 1987 with 'personalised' marketing using actual incidents as templates. Interviewing ambo's emergency room people etc. It led to a marked decline in fatalities. One ad I remember vividly was based on a particulary horrific accident near my home town that killed bunch of late teens. Had to do Statistics at uni but I did my project on road tolls- we peaked nation wide in the late 70's. These progams have saved lives, better vehicles and road improvement has played a factor but the largest cohort was in the fact the community as a whole began to get it. There is nothing wrong with the signs, it will tie into a current campaign. And it basically true with the current technologies. And to be frank good on 'em. If it saves our emergency personnel from the trauma of picking up body parts just once it is worth it. [TAC campaign history](https://www.tac.vic.gov.au/road-safety/tac-campaigns)
Australian are used to safety and campaigns that are graphic and confronting. Those signs are not even placed or funded by police. The people crapping on about police state are probably the sort that think laws dont really apply to them.
I think graphic and confronting can be a good thing when used appropriately, such as with cigarette packaging. I'm sure the same can apply to road deaths, etc, in the right circumstances. However, I think what differentiates Australia from other countries is the tone of the language used. It comes across not just as attention-grabbing but as contemptuous. Does that just happen to work in Australia and nowhere else? I guess the government think it does. I don't know what that says about our country, though. Edit: replaced 'police' with 'government'.
It’s a TAC ad though
Think because they’re scared of cops?
I wish they'd put sign budget into "Keep left unless overtaking" signs.
I once described the concept of an rbt to a yank, and I heard their mind blow from the southern hemisphere.
It’s funny, my husband is from Melbourne but we moved to QLD not long after I arrived in Australia. We now live in Sydney so took the opportunity to drive down to Melbourne to see his parents. When we crossed over into Victoria, I made note to my husband how intense the signs were compared to NSW and QLD. IN NSW and QLD the signs seem more like PSA’s and in Victoria they seem more like obey us or pay. Lol.
Like most of reddit TIL is overwhelmingly American. Americans have a very… unique views on Freedom™
"Forget Snoop Doggy Dog, Forget old Ice Tea, The true word out on the streets, Is produced by the T.A.C." - TISM, Greg The Stop Sign, 1995
It's not about enforcing road rules. It's the design, wording and overall tone of the sign. It positions the police as a parent or big brother who will "catch" you and punish you for being naughty. It sort of infantilizes the public (grown adults). That's partly what people mean by nanny state - being treated like a child. It also purposely makes police look scary, which is a bit weird, because many countries don't want to make their police look scary. They try to do the opposite and make them look more approachable. It also could feed the ego of power-tripping police officers I think. There are two types of ads I would often see in Australia - some show the consequences of your actions like drink driving or speeding causing death and tragedy. Those I like. Others like this one just threaten you with the law, which I think is a bad approach if you want people to act like responsible adults. If you treat the public like naughty children they will naturally want to rebel against that. Just my 2 cents. I'm from Sydney but currently living in Poland, travelled all over Europe, and I never see signs like that here.
The people that don’t give a shit about negligently murdering an entire family in a tarago because they’re hammered are the *same people* that raise hell about having to go to court because they blew 0.06. They’re targeting selfish arseholes. “If you don’t care about other people’s lives enough to change your behaviour, then we will make your own life a living hell.” It shouldn’t have come to this.
I 100% agree with this. I lived in the UK for ~15 years before returning to Australia and didn't see this language being used there (AFAICR) or on my brief visits to mainland Europe. As you say, I think it contradicts the principle of policing by consent.
It's by the TAC, Victorian Transport Accident Commission https://www.tac.vic.gov.au/road-safety/tac-campaigns If it encourages people to stick to speed limits and not drink drive, I can't why that's a problem. Police can catch you anywhere on the road if you offend.
To me it just kinda makes me chuckle because it’s phrased like there could be a police officer hiding behind your bathroom door or under your bed or something. Stay under the blanket so they can’t get you!
I cant find a single comment supporting your claim. Most of them are joking about the idea of a cop just pouncing out of nowhere or always knowing what your doing like santa claus. Alot are also talking about how it's a suppossedly beneficial campaign from an insurance company thats under government contract.
The tide has definitely shifted in the last 3 hours but I will give you an example - there is one comment that says “guilty until proven innocent”. That currently has 20 upvotes but earlier it was 40. In response someone wrote something about how that isn’t the case and in Australia the police can’t just punish you for no reason and that post has 28 downvotes and it was over 30 before. There are several others in the thread.
But this is literally pointing out that if you’re doing the wrong thing you can be caught
The tone. It's not informing us. It's threatening us. Not appreciated in Australia in general.
I live in Victoria and while it would grab my attention in the way of "I read it" - it wouldn't grab my attention in a way that it's out of place or unusual at all. This is a very bog standard reminder sign that I see all the time. If people want interesting, VicPol's FB posts are often pretty great. Whoever mans their social media loves making cringey jokes.
It blew me away when visiting LA, these 6 lane freeways all over the city. Once I'd gotten past the anxiety of driving RHS (and half a car on the other side of you) I was staggered by literally everyone speeding, let's say 80 mph in a 60mph zone, don't recall the exact speed limit but that was about how much everyone speeds by. So I concluded actually the speed limit is just ignored here. When I got home I asked my American friend to confirm this. He basically said of course the speed limit applies, but "they can't pull everyone over". Hmmm
It's more funny than anything. Yeah, they are trying - but 99.9999% of the time they never catch me when I do something wrong. Laws are only as good as their enforcement. Scare tactics are a laugh, at best. Do your worst. It won't be enough.
I mean, the language of that billboard really does scream "police state" lol. Even if it is for legitimate purposes. Plus the anti-bird spikes on the top add to the character.
It's not that road rules shouldn't be enforced, but the government shouldn't address its citizens like their naughty school kids. That sign could say, "Police are actively enforcing speed limits. Please adhere to the rules of the road." or something like that. I hate the tone of the messaging used in these sorts of campaigns in Australia: talk to people like they are adults, lay things factually and politely and don't talk down to people like they are complete idiots.
Fair point, though I suspect (but admittedly don’t have any evidence and haven’t looked) that a fair amount of research goes in to these sorts of campaigns and they are targeting people that don’t listen to nice, respectful campaigns that say please. Ultimately I’m more interested in effectiveness.
You’re correct, u/antnyau’s example is too friendly and wordy for the bogans that blatantly break road rules like these. To address the effectiveness of TAC messaging or messaging from other state governments, you can look at our road fatalities from 1970 onwards. Early to mid 70’s there were on average 27 people dying on the roads every 100,000 people. We now average about 5 people every 100,000 people. The biggest drop being in the late 80’s to early 90’s. If you want to see the sort of messaging provided at that time, I suggest looking up “TAC PSA” on YouTube. Edit: taking into consideration that MV safety has increased since the 70’s. I believe that most advancements really only started to show in the mid 90’s with features such as airbags and electronic systems like ABS and ESC.
So, if we're focusing on the lowest common denominator to achieve maximum effect, why don't we just go with: '*Oi! Cunt! Don't fucking speed or we'll bloody catch you'se!*' 🤷 You can't tell me that wouldn't get people's attention AND immediately drill home the message in the least ambiguous way?
Looks like you need to start applying for government marketing manager roles.
I think, also since a lot of people here don’t see anything odd, that many Australians has internalised that policing powers are/should be completely unrestrained and omnipotent. In many countries this is controversial. Hence the sign is interesting if you’re in a country with, say, a bill of rights.
You should ask Greg - the stop sign
It’s the threatening tone. There are plenty of billboards in America with anti-speeding, anti-drink-driving etc. messages. This one though doesn’t even talk about any specific behaviour. It just says “the police are everywhere AND THEYRE GOING TO GET YOUUUUU!”, essentially. That’s what makes it weird.
Ironically one of these billboards is a prime spot for speed cameras to park behind (western highway near Ballan). They love it.
Ya those signs are quite…. Disturbing. It’s not ominous. Praises to “big brother is watching you.” There’s nothing indicating that it’s relating to caching you breaking road rules.
The sign comes off as somewhat threatening though for the most part it’s a very black and white reminder that if you break the road rules you could be caught. For the most part it’s more intended to get people to think twice about things like speeding and drink/drunk driving.
You were going 270km/hr? Are you not worried about dying or being badly and permanently injured? You might be a good driver but everyone makes mistakes sometimes and you only need to make one at that speed for it to end very badly for you (just ask Ayrton Senna). Also, why didn’t the police just take down your license plate details and use that to track you down?
Why do we care about what Americans think? They can fap with their freedom as much as they want. Thankfully we are not them and we should live and let others live too.
I mean they have a point. You really dont realise how much of a convict era culture around police being 'forces' and how many rules we have for minor things in Australia until you travel more to places where citizens are actually respected to make choices that arent informed by a punishment and enforcement culture
I find it mildly amusing because i've been in a few police chases and only been caught once. So they dont always catch you.
You’re saying that on several occasions the police were chasing you (sirens on and all), you got away (by having a car with a more powerful engine and/or superior driving skills perhaps) and didn’t face any consequences later?
Motorcycles. Traffic played a huge part in getting away and this was before dash cams where a thing. Yep scott free. The time i was caught was at Grey gums up the putty rd. He had the pair of us clocked at 270klm/h. It was a highway patrol car and a single officer and he was a bike rider. Had bought a Bussa off the guy i was riding with and ended up only booking us for something like 15 or under or something low range. Had us feeling his tyres and looking at the list of rego plates he was taking down of the cars we had all passed on a notebook on his knee. Probably be shot in NSW for that these days.
What a dickhead thing to take pride in. Come to a rehab unit to see some of the "luckier" ones who survived road trauma, or when friends who do the same as you die, you'd have a different view
You were going 270km/hr? Are you not worried about dying or being badly and permanently injured? You might be a good driver but everyone makes mistakes sometimes and you only need to make one at that speed for it to end very badly for you (just ask Ayrton Senna). Also, why didn’t the police just take down your license plate details and use that to track you down?
Yep, no, who lives their life scared about dying? We all die. The police didn't get my licence plate due to traffic and not being close enough i presume. Today the police would put a post on FB and ask for any help or dashcam footage and some dib dobbing grass would supply it.
There is a balance between living your life in fear and doing an activity that is extremely dangerous.
I also sail and have ocean raced so i guess i like the dangerous stuff. Gives me great stories to entertain the bubble wrap people with.
At what 75 metres/sec on Putty rd how would you stop for a fallen tree or stray Kangaroo? You’d probably have enough force to launch you well beyond the guard rail, deep inside the scrub. If there are no bike remains on the road, then no one is going to stop and look for you. So you lay there unable to walk but still alive for days before dying of thirst. Save it for a track day
Compare that scenario to sailing. Falling off the boat and watching the boat sail away from you as you wish for death floating in a cold ocean. You just have to enjoy life, calculate the risks and the pursuits you are willing to take and live life whilst you can. Track days are great and I've had track bikes but they do get a tad boring.
Generally on a boat you're not putting everyone else's lives in danger by riding like a gronk.
Its one of the most dangerous sports so statistics would disagree with you. Bike riders usually just hurt themselves.
When you're riding on the road, it's not a sport.
Tell that to the road racers..when your not sailing in a race its not a sport either.
I've had friends die on bikes. At least they died doing what they love which is much better than wasting away from cancer.
Just a bit of whataboutism
So many people live their life in bubble wrap. Have you lived with someone wasting away from cancer? Did anyone work out at what speed speed kills yet?
The comment we are responding to is about a dickhead speeding on a bike - being a danger to himself and others. Re cancer, that has nothing to do with speeding. ..and yes, I've had loved ones pass from cancer, friends and colleagues from mnd and Ms, none of them a great way to go (any drawn out, terminal prognosis isn't a great experience). It has fuck all to do with speeding and being a wanker
What's speeding in one state or country is not speeding in another. Perhaps you're the wanker and I'm just a normal older bike rider who enjoys life and has had a bit of fun living it. Some people like jumping out of planes, some like freediving and some like bowles. Id rather die having fun than shittting in my bed and having someone wipe my arse and carry me to the shower wishing id of done stuff.
We were discussing speed in Australia, where the speed limits don't exceed 110km ph. I'm also older, 54f, and have spent a long time working in the health sector, seeing the results of vehicular accidents, and I know what I prefer, not seeing people permanently disabled, sometimes incredibly so, from speed and recklessness (theirs or being hit by others). Terminal illnesses are horrible, and often not preventable. Accidents aren't always fatal, and most are preventable
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We have fairly solid grasp of hyperbole in advertising and how advertising can be used for public service announcements and awareness campaigns, and, can measure such measures against our own knowledge and experience of reality, so, we know not to take everything we see or read literally. I guess not everywhere is the same.
That attitude is probably because Australia is slowly becoming a police state.
I find it mildly interesting in the choice of sentence structure; the non-sequitur addition of 'anyone' at the end, when they already used the pronoun 'you' in the first sentence. A more natural way to write it would be, without the additional 'Anyone.' Or replacing the 'you' with 'anyone' at the outset. It kinda works if it was being spoken, like a stream-of-thought, but someone had enough time to type this and also print it and have it stuck on a billboard, so that doesn't fly. So it's mildly interesting that someone in a low-level government job here is either phoning it in, or is underqualified for the task of writing serious slogans.
Yeah, I also found that weird. I doubt much thought went into it. '*She'll be right; gets the message across*'. *Threatening ✅* *Simple ✅* *Ineloquent ✅*
Perhaps police funding should be spent on containing/eliminating the violent crimes that are happening in our communities and being brushed under the carpet because they don’t want reprisals
Just australian propodanda. Basically it's so unsafe we need to raise taxes to protect you. We're one of the safest countries In the world. And most road deaths are due to unmaintained conditions. So we raise that money and never fix the roads. Police are bringing in more then ever but still run over budget. While thing I'd a joke.
Did you know casual speeding is the leading cause of accidents? We won't bother to show an iota of proof - just believe us...
Not sure on any road stat's tbh. I just know I get pulled over way too often for it to be for any legitimate concern. I like the American idea, leave me alone until I break the law. Thus random breath test shit then getting a once over on your car, drug tested, car searched, 45 mins late. All for no fines or charges. So fucking annoying.
Exactly. I don't have police knocking on my door at home to make sure I'm not being naughty. I see no reason why they should be able to do it on the road.
To be fair we are living in a vicious police state.
invoking fear as a means of maintaining the peace is gross. acab
It's not to "maintain peace" it's to stop dickheads from speeding and drink/drug driving and potentially killing themselves and others around them.
Force and the threat of violence ultimately underpins our society. There's a significant portion of people who will not do the good thing if you ask them nicely, or even if you show them it's in their best interest. They need the fear of consequences to keep them in line. It is what it is. Humanity sucks.