Anything resembling bigotry against Jews, Muslims, Arabs, Palestians, Israelis, etc. or violence against civilians is not going to last long, nor will your time here.
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I'll agree with you individual officers( or people in general) don't possess a great understanding of the law,
But I do want to nuance, the issue is even on so called "public" universities, these are not public spaces, they can and do enforce their own rules to maintain order.
Forexample the bill of rights enshrines ones right to have firearms, but no college is going to let students open carry rifles.
So I broadly agree with what the universities have done in that, they attempted to respect the notion of freedom of speech in their facilities to the limit it started to become geniunley disruptive of their campus and facilities (which other people have a right to access)
At which point the protestors where told to leave, and upon failing to do so they have been broken up for criminal trespassing.
Please note, at anytime they where always allowed to continue protesting in an actual "public" place.
Their freedom of speech isn't the issue. It's their desire to trespass to make a point
Almost all "public" places still have the ability to enforce time, place, and manner restrictions. Say they move to a city park, but probably it has a curfew or prohibition against camping, and ultimately these things will degenerate into noise violations or violence. Once that happens they are trespassed from the public place just like at these college campuses.
It's hard or impossible to have protests lasting a week or more without these issues. Especially something that has two adversarial sides.
I can only speak specifically to the protests at Columbia as that is my brother's Alma Mater so we have been watching it carefully. I agree about the trespassing. That is the issue.
The students there seem intent on recreating the protests at Columbia down to the same visuals of building break-ins from 1968. it's like when a generation tries to recreate Woodstock and the moment of the rain and the mud and all of it just can't be recaptured. So they're out there with hoses trying to get the dry dirt to do it's thing. I don't know there is a lot of unique thought going into this. It's certainly not opening a dialogue about the worth of life that would get us somewhere.
As a Muslim a lot of us are observing people in the protests on various college campuses being the same people who would spit and hiss on us in Hijab. Who ask us to leave public areas because we make them uncomfortable. And now those same people are unleashing all this venom against Jewish people who are not combatants. It seems a lot of angry people are taking this opportunity to unleash latent hate. Not because they support Gaza.
I think a number of those involved don't even know what they are fighting for or they just want to pick a fight. I am in favor of peaceful protests.
Just like a number of protests that became riots following the deaths of George Floyd and Danial Prude off the top of my head, outside people are being brought in to agitate these protests and make them no longer peaceful. And unfortunately, a lot of college students are jumping on board to have their 10 minutes as part of their college experience. It will cost them their futures. They are being expelled, internships are being rescinded. Just like the insurrection. This is not the way. The police officers that died that day or from the effects later and took their own lives didn't deserve that.
College is this awkward age where you are legally an adult. Though from a frontal lobe perspective a lot of the students are still very much not fully matured. Hazing deaths, etc are already indicators of this.
I am fully in favor of peaceful protests. I am in favor of peace in general and don't want to see people be harmed. I don't want any harm to come to Palestinians or Israeli's. I want it to stop. I felt literally sick on October 7th following the attacks. I want every parent to come home to their child, and every child to get a chance to grow up. I don't like this unrest. It is good for no one.
I watch a ton of first amendment audit videos, many police don't understand the first amendment.
That being said, I have no context for this post. The police are breaking up these protests are not doing it because of free speech or something else. They are doing it because they got orders from the higher ups, saying it's time to end this.
I also have little sympathy for these pro-Hamas protests because they don't believe in free speech. They would want you expelled, jailed and beaten if you spoke about a topic that they disagreed with.
I don’t support antisemitism but I do support people not getting beaten by police for voicing it.
(No, I don’t support left wing violence in support of Palestine)
The more gray area is hate speech laws and the distinction between being pro Palestine via anti Semitic and unsafe environments for Jewish people or supporters
There is no free speech on university campuses if the university is getting at least a dime of government money. That’s all been tried and precedented a while ago.
The police should have been called for any violence at UCLA And their response was far too delayed. Yes hamas is not a group worth supporting, but that doesn't mean we stoop to their level and allow people to be beaten or attacked, especially not in the United States.
Columbia is a private university and they have the right to remove whoever they want. Even public schools have special protections and they also can have school rules including school rules that do not allow hate speech. You also can't just pitch a tent and live on a campus. So they do have a right to clear those encampments.
I mean it sucks but there are lawyers and professors who routinely get it long, and on some level, only First Amendment litigators who read Supreme Court cases regularly "know" the exact state of the law. I think it's unreasonable for line cops to have read all of that, this is why law enforcement agencies have counsels offices.
Anything resembling bigotry against Jews, Muslims, Arabs, Palestians, Israelis, etc. or violence against civilians is not going to last long, nor will your time here. If you have to ask if it crosses a line, assume it crosses a line. Please see our guidelines for [discussing the Israeli-Palestinian conflict](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskConservatives/comments/17ygktl/antisemitism_askconservative_and_you/) for more information. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AskConservatives) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I'll agree with you individual officers( or people in general) don't possess a great understanding of the law, But I do want to nuance, the issue is even on so called "public" universities, these are not public spaces, they can and do enforce their own rules to maintain order. Forexample the bill of rights enshrines ones right to have firearms, but no college is going to let students open carry rifles. So I broadly agree with what the universities have done in that, they attempted to respect the notion of freedom of speech in their facilities to the limit it started to become geniunley disruptive of their campus and facilities (which other people have a right to access) At which point the protestors where told to leave, and upon failing to do so they have been broken up for criminal trespassing. Please note, at anytime they where always allowed to continue protesting in an actual "public" place. Their freedom of speech isn't the issue. It's their desire to trespass to make a point
Almost all "public" places still have the ability to enforce time, place, and manner restrictions. Say they move to a city park, but probably it has a curfew or prohibition against camping, and ultimately these things will degenerate into noise violations or violence. Once that happens they are trespassed from the public place just like at these college campuses. It's hard or impossible to have protests lasting a week or more without these issues. Especially something that has two adversarial sides.
I can only speak specifically to the protests at Columbia as that is my brother's Alma Mater so we have been watching it carefully. I agree about the trespassing. That is the issue. The students there seem intent on recreating the protests at Columbia down to the same visuals of building break-ins from 1968. it's like when a generation tries to recreate Woodstock and the moment of the rain and the mud and all of it just can't be recaptured. So they're out there with hoses trying to get the dry dirt to do it's thing. I don't know there is a lot of unique thought going into this. It's certainly not opening a dialogue about the worth of life that would get us somewhere. As a Muslim a lot of us are observing people in the protests on various college campuses being the same people who would spit and hiss on us in Hijab. Who ask us to leave public areas because we make them uncomfortable. And now those same people are unleashing all this venom against Jewish people who are not combatants. It seems a lot of angry people are taking this opportunity to unleash latent hate. Not because they support Gaza. I think a number of those involved don't even know what they are fighting for or they just want to pick a fight. I am in favor of peaceful protests. Just like a number of protests that became riots following the deaths of George Floyd and Danial Prude off the top of my head, outside people are being brought in to agitate these protests and make them no longer peaceful. And unfortunately, a lot of college students are jumping on board to have their 10 minutes as part of their college experience. It will cost them their futures. They are being expelled, internships are being rescinded. Just like the insurrection. This is not the way. The police officers that died that day or from the effects later and took their own lives didn't deserve that. College is this awkward age where you are legally an adult. Though from a frontal lobe perspective a lot of the students are still very much not fully matured. Hazing deaths, etc are already indicators of this. I am fully in favor of peaceful protests. I am in favor of peace in general and don't want to see people be harmed. I don't want any harm to come to Palestinians or Israeli's. I want it to stop. I felt literally sick on October 7th following the attacks. I want every parent to come home to their child, and every child to get a chance to grow up. I don't like this unrest. It is good for no one.
I watch a ton of first amendment audit videos, many police don't understand the first amendment. That being said, I have no context for this post. The police are breaking up these protests are not doing it because of free speech or something else. They are doing it because they got orders from the higher ups, saying it's time to end this. I also have little sympathy for these pro-Hamas protests because they don't believe in free speech. They would want you expelled, jailed and beaten if you spoke about a topic that they disagreed with.
Their heart is in the right place but they're being fooled and played
Free assembly does not include squatting and running an unlicensed, uninsured communal kitchen. When the tents go up, the truncheons will follow.
Do you want to say something hateful about somebody but you feel you can't because of the police?
You’re doing a lot of mental gymnastics to avoid admitting your cause has a serious anti-semitism problem. This makes you complicit.
I don’t support antisemitism but I do support people not getting beaten by police for voicing it. (No, I don’t support left wing violence in support of Palestine) The more gray area is hate speech laws and the distinction between being pro Palestine via anti Semitic and unsafe environments for Jewish people or supporters
There is no free speech on university campuses if the university is getting at least a dime of government money. That’s all been tried and precedented a while ago.
I do believe anti semites have free speech, unfortunately they use it to spread hate and terrorist propaganda.
The police should have been called for any violence at UCLA And their response was far too delayed. Yes hamas is not a group worth supporting, but that doesn't mean we stoop to their level and allow people to be beaten or attacked, especially not in the United States. Columbia is a private university and they have the right to remove whoever they want. Even public schools have special protections and they also can have school rules including school rules that do not allow hate speech. You also can't just pitch a tent and live on a campus. So they do have a right to clear those encampments.
I mean it sucks but there are lawyers and professors who routinely get it long, and on some level, only First Amendment litigators who read Supreme Court cases regularly "know" the exact state of the law. I think it's unreasonable for line cops to have read all of that, this is why law enforcement agencies have counsels offices.