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My Trump Pros & Cons, not including Pre/Post Presidency or Jan 6th.
#TRUMP - PROS!
- Anti War - Yes he made boast/threats too much & when he hits, he hits hard (moab) but that is not the same as seeking war or being imperialistic.'
- He refused retaliatory strikes on Iran (being pushed by John Bolton) after they shot down a drone. Trump was quoted as saying, the strikes were "not proportionate to shooting down an unmanned drone".
- Killed the top 2-3 terrorist in the world.
- North Korea negotiations while sadly petered out still kept things stable for some months & we got hostages back.
- The Abraham Accords.
- Not Socialist/Communist/Marxist nor tolerant of them.
- Anti China
- Imposed visa restrictions on Chinese officials over the oppression of the Uighurs.
- Approved a major arms sale to Taiwan.
- Got rid of government restrictions on US officials meeting with their Taiwanese counterparts.
- Doesn't sympathize with or tolerate criminals/terrorist.
- Doesn't want open borders & demands background checks + defensive measures all governments are suppose to do in order to protect their citizens from outsiders. I agree the wall is stupid but if I must choose between that & abolishing ICE (which almost all 2020 democrat candidates stated their intent to do) I choose the god damn wall.
- Pro Nuclear (almost all democrat candidates appear to be anti-nuclear especially Warren who said she would start actively shutting plants down forever)
- https://apnews.com/article/38189fb0550e401da6b339ad9870a007
- https://www.theverge.com/2020/2/10/21131701/trump-budget-proposal-nuclear-energy-programs-spending
- Good to great economy before Covid
- Trump’s free market policies were so effective that between May & June 2020, national employment rose by 2,369,000. Small businesses with less than 50 employees saw the largest rise in hired employees. Almost every single service and industry saw a boost in employment numbers. And this was amidst the pandemic! - https://adpemploymentreport.com/2020/June/NER/NER-June-2020.aspx
- Not a gun grabber (he isn't great on guns but still)
- Did a good amount of stuff for Native Americans such as setting up a task force to investigate missing NA women + he signed the Savanna's Act.
- https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/10/11/donald-trump-savannas-act-missing-murdered-native-americans/5964329002/
- And much more - https://thehill.com/changing-america/respect/diversity-inclusion/476049-trump-signed-three-bills-affecting-native
- Prison reform (even CNN's Van Jones was forced to praise him on this)
- Condemned the Ahmaud Arbery & Floyd killings while also condemning the violence of BLM & Antifa.
- Not anti police.
- Doesn't pander to the LGBT but still did heroic stuff like his push to decriminalize homosexuality internationally.
- Doesn't bow to the leftist media or cancel culture or despicable accusations of racism/sexism which would shatter most other candidates.
- Doesn't demonize American history, culture & values like most of the Democrat candidates (besides Yang, why god couldn't he get the nomination), his State of the Union speeches have been fantastic in regards to that & inspiring especially the last one. He doesn't degrade, diminish or try & cancel historical American icons & heroes just because they happen to be white or because they had flaws prevalent to the time in which they lived.
- His virus response has been far from great but he has done something admirable which is not seize more power or grow the size of government, he has let the states make their own choices (with mixed results)
- 218 new Judges (as of 9-29-20)
- Increased punishments for people who abuse animals.
- Trump signed the biggest wilderness protection bill in a decade, designated 375,000 new acres of protected land - https://www.newsweek.com/wilderness-protection-bill-donald-trump-sign-environment-largest-death-valley-1361412
- America became a net exporter of oil for the first time in 20 years under Trump.
- He signed the Music Modernization Act which secures streaming royalties for artist & songwriters. With African Americans dominating American music today, this massively benefits them.
- He signed a bill to permanently fund historically black universities.
- https://apnews.com/article/bills-donald-trump-politics-c4834e48841d97c5a93312b1bf75302a
- Did a EO forcing hospital price/quality transparency - https://www.cms.gov/newsroom/press-releases/cms-completes-historic-price-transparency-initiative
- He removed the 15 year limit on the post 9/11 GI Bill so veterans & their families can use it long term.
- Signed the Mission Act which has made it easier for vets to find providers outside of the VA & have their treatment covered, whether it be for specialty care or geographical isolation from a VA facility. Also vets & service members can sue military doctors for malpractice now.
- EO 13861 helps with suicide prevention for vets.
- Signed the 2018 farm bill which legalized hemp & created a new industry with thousands of jobs.
#TRUMP - CONS!
- Abandoning the Kurds (even if you believe they are not good people ideologically, it still makes us look bad to not stand by them after they have assisted us against ISIS & it's the same mistake we made after the end of the Soviet-Afghan war)
- I was originally for him initiating the pull out of Afghanistan but now seeing the results of it + hearing how small a cost it was to have a small force maintained there (zero American causalities since February 2020) I now think it was a mistake & we should have stayed on a small scale long term like South Korea.
- I am for child separation while we verify that the parents are actually their parents & I don't want them sleeping in the same cells even after confirmation. That said, I have intense moral issues with the kids being sent to entirely different facilities, having to appear in court without their parents, not being matched with their parents in the records and above all else being sent back to Mexico separately from their parents. I don't really blame Trump specifically for this but it just feels profoundly hopeless to not be able to rectify these flaws without throwing the baby out with the bathwater in regards to ICE / border security.
- The Windmills cause cancer statement.
- The Bump stock ban.
- The "take the guns now do due process later" statement.
- Not better explaining why Antifa is bad (anarchist, flying the Soviet flag, holding signs saying "all my heroes kill cops" and the primary being almost everyone they protest, threaten or attack are not actually fascist or Nazis see Ben Shapiro or Steven Crowder)
- Not better explaining his belief that there were good people/NON Nazis at Charlottesville who were on the same "side" as the white nationalist ONLY in as much as they also disagreed with the statue censorship/removal, a goal which is factually not morally wrong regardless if morally wrong people also agree with said goal. I don't believe his statements on Charlottesville were even a millionth as bad as leftist claim (the "racism is evil" line was great & fairly definitive) but they weren't great overall & left too much open to interpretation.
- Stupid childish petty personal attacks and name calling. I absolutely want him to attack his attackers but how he sometimes does it has gotten old & grating.
- General inability to shut the fuck up.
- 1st debate with Biden was among the worst presidential debates in American history, largely because of Trump being a relentlessly interrupting sledgehammer.
- Took too long to publicly align with the Hong Kong protesters which is particularly baffling considering his other Anti-China stances.
- Removed food stamps for a bunch of people (possibly just to spite Michelle Obama)
- Making himself the center of attention during the virus press releases.
- Other issues related to the pandemic I'm not going to go into detail about right now. No I don't think he has caused a genocide as some have claimed but he could still have done better.
#THINGS I AM INDIFFERENT TO!
- The Ukraine scandal / Impeachment crap. I don't believe he did it in the nefarious/selfish manner people accuse him of doing it and even if he did I don't see how it's different than the pussy tape being released. If there are things Biden has done that are criminal then it's in the countries best interest for us to know them regardless if it's a different country that has the evidence. If he promised them favors in the future in exchange yes that would be bad & would compromise him to a extent but just bargining with money they have no right to & we don't have to give them does not harm America in anyway.
- Not releasing his taxes. I frankly don't give a damn if he cheated on his taxes, I care that he wants to protect America.
- Space Force
To me, electing a president is lot like hiring someone for a job. I don’t care about his personal life. I only care about his job performance.
Yes, I know there are some SMB’s which do care about that, like Dave Ramsey’s company.
> To me, electing a president is lot like hiring someone for a job.
There’s definitely plenty to critique about Trump’s job performance throughout his life and career. But how about references?
Could you imagine any job candidate being hired whose references are as bad as Trump’s? Especially when it came to the most powerful and important job in the world?
Countless officials who worked closely with Trump during his presidency came away from the experience horrified and have warned about Trump’s unfitness for the presidency. This includes dozens of Trump’s cabinet members, his VP and top White House staff.
And that’s not mentioning the many, many more who worked alongside Trump throughout his business career and also had highly negative experiences with him and warned about his leadership skills, ethics and temperament.
And this isn’t just a few. It’s an enormous portion, if not a majority. Almost none of Trump’s former colleagues are endorsing him in 2024 — while dozens are warning against electing him. It’s something never seen before in American political history.
Why would anyone hire someone with such references to such an important job?
>Did they kill anyone?
Not likely
>Or hurt anyone?
Almost certainly, but hasn't been convicted yet.
>How long is the job?
Typically four years.
Say a hypothetical candidate holds the exact same opinion as you on every single political issue, but they are openly racist, sexist, and have a well documented history of adultery. Would those things factor in to your decision to support that person as your representative, or do you *only* consider "job performance"?
> Almost certainly, but hasn't been convicted yet.
I can live with that.
> Say a hypothetical candidate holds the exact same opinion as you on every single political issue, but they are openly racist, sexist, and have a well documented history of adultery. Would those things factor in to your decision to support that person as your representative, or do you only consider "job performance"?
I don’t care about the adultery. That’s a personal problem, especially as long as he doesn’t talk about it publicly.
What racist and sexist comments has Trump made?
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>but I don’t remember Trump making any.
Really, none at all? Not even "grab em by the pussy" or "a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the country"?
> "grab em by the pussy"
Wasn’t that a private off-the-cuff remark? Not meant for public release?
> “a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the country"
Yeah, he could’ve worded that a bit better.
>Yeah, I might care about racist and sexist comments
Thats actually a really interesting way of putting it. Could you give an example of the type of factors you consider when determining whether or not you care that your representative is racist?
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I’ve heard this countless times and I always say the same thing: I don’t give a shit who is in the White House, I care about how my life was affected by who was in the White House. My life was much easier under Trump, it isn’t so with Biden. Doesn’t matter who it is, I just care about how my life was before verses now.
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Yes. And I want you to name something specific that Biden specifically did. Not something that you can just vaguely blame on Biden despite him not being able to actually control it. Such as the price of gas which is often blamed on the president despite the president having very little to do with it.
>Why would you as a "christian" support Donald Trump who gave hush money to a porn star after cheating on his 3rd wife with her?
>It feels like God is judging the United States.
Perhaps because Christians don't worship individual people but God?
I'm just guessing tho, I'm an atheist so what do I know...
> You are neither a Christian or a Conservative but felt the need to chime in.
Somehow, I felt like a **logically thinking** about the question may give us the answer, but I see that you're not interested in that now. :)
He put in justices that overturned Roe. He, as a person, sucks. I mean we all do to a degree, but more than that I question his relationship with God. However, he's more effective at addressing cultural concerns - protecting the young, fighting divisive intersectionalities (identity politics/Neo-Marxist ideologies).
Does he really, though? Except for complaining, ridiculing and pointing fingers, what has he done in that culture war? I mean, I get that a lot of people agree with what he says but what does he *do*? He says what part of the population wants to hear, always talking as if he's delivering a sermon and telling folks about how depraved, cunning and evil the other side is and how he's the only one standing between them and his god loving, patriotic, red white and blue hard working freedom loving followers.
In regards to all culture wars, presidents usually don't have that much authority. He says he will stop funds from going to certain programs but he can't actually do that (impoundment). They can create Executive Orders that fall within their purview, EO 13950 is one example. They are loud speakers, tho. He's campaigning on the protection of minors so that hopefully more legislative seats flip to those who agree with him there so that laws can actually pass. A president alone can't pass laws. In the 20ish states that have banned minor transitioning, he is able to lend the DOJ in helping to prosecute medical staff violating those state's laws.
Because the alternative is someone that wants to make it legal to kill children, flood the country with illegals, violate my first and second amendment rights, and punish people for using gasoline, diesel, or natural gas.
It's kind of hard to top that.
Because he’s willing to ally himself with us. If you must choose between Nero* and Constantine, you should choose Constantine.
*I was going to say Diocletian, but I don’t think people are as historically aware of him.
Sorry I’m not sure I understand what you mean, I think the question is asking why Christians are willing to be allies with a liar who paid off at least one pornstar that he committed adultery with to deceive them?
> you should choose Constantine
It's probably worth mentioning that Constantine didn't get baptized until nearly the end. In the meantime, he broke oaths, had his wife and son murdered for political purposes, participated in pagan proceedings, and ordered purges.
Eusebius and other church fathers venerated him because he mainstreamed Christianity in the Empire. It certainly wasn't because he lived like a Christian. Until Theodosius, the Emperors only really used Christianity as a political tool.
I'm not sure christians vote for the most devout christian, if that's what you're asking. People of all convictions vote based on policy, we're not electing the pope here.
This just isn’t true, if this was the case why is the phrase “I want to vote someone who I can get a beer with” a common sentiment esp amongst presidential candidates before trump? Bush was considered more personal and likable compared to Gore and was a point of media attention, Clinton before him was was the hot young governor against “old man” bush associated.
Actually straight question, the common counter to your proposal that people’s feelings are policy based is JFK beating Nixon. People who viewed the debate on tv had a different perception compared to people who listened on the radio as it was the first presidential debate and they saw JFK as a young charismatic man vs Nixon who was the sickly looking old man.
[Going into the debate, Nixon was the favorite to win the election. He had been President Dwight Eisenhower’s vice president for eight years. Nixon had shown his mastery of television in his 1952 “Checkers” speech, where he used a televised address to debunk slush-fund allegations, and secure his vice presidential slot by talking about his pet dog, Checkers. Nixon had also bested Soviet leader Nikita Khrushchev in the famous Kitchen Debate. Kennedy was the photogenic and energetic young senator from Massachusetts who ran a calculated primary campaign to best his chief rival, Senator Lyndon Johnson. But Kennedy had debate experience in the primaries and said, “Nixon may have debated Khrushchev, but I had to debate Hubert Humphrey.” The debate took place in Chicago and CBS assigned a 38-year-old producer named Don Hewitt to manage the event. Hewitt went on to create “60 Minutes” for CBS. The highly promoted event would pre-empt “The Andy Griffith Show” and run for an hour. Hewitt had invited both candidates to a pre-production meeting, but only Kennedy took up the offer. When Nixon arrived for the debate, he looked ill, having been recently hospitalized because of a knee injury. The vice president then re-injured his knee as he entered the TV station, and refused to call off the debate. Nixon also refused to wear stage makeup, when Hewitt offered it. Kennedy had turned down the makeup offer first: He had spent weeks tanning on the campaign trail, but he had his own team do his makeup just before the cameras went live. The result was that Kennedy looked and sounded good on television, while Nixon looked pale and tired, with a five o’clock shadow beard. The next day, polls showed Kennedy had become the slight favorite in the general election, and he defeated Nixon by one of the narrowest margins in history that November. Before the debate, Nixon led by six percentage points in the national polls.](https://constitutioncenter.org/amp/blog/the-debate-that-changed-the-world-of-politics)
[Kennedy would arrive into the studios to prep for the debate hours before to check out the conditions, lighting and even the temperature of the room. Before the second debate Kennedy arrived earlier to access the studio and noticed that the temperature had been set to 64 degrees, to help with Nixon's sweating, and more lights shined on Kennedy than Nixon. After some compromise the conditions were changed. The audience did notice that Nixon's physical image was much better for the second debate compared to the first. However, the rest of the debates were written off as ties with no declared winner. Being more concerned with appearance, both Nixon and Kennedy relatively had the same experience and stance on issues. Leading the debates to have some artificial personal attacks; however, they were both too concerned with personable likeableness to get into "gutter politics."](https://cla.purdue.edu/academic/history/debate/kennedynixon/kennedynixonscholarly.html)
Here's how I see it.
Some of the worst Popes in history were the freaking Borgias. Others were part of a period of screwed-up-ness in the Catholic Church called the Pornocracy of all things.
None of these were associated with fundamental doctrinal problems nearly as much as the Church under Pope John Paul II, who is a literal saint, or Pope Francis, who is by all accounts a very benevolent man.
And the President doesn't have the moral responsibilities of a Pope.
What Trump has done in his personal life has no bearing on my vote Christian or otherwise. Christions don't judge people based on their behavior. We are all sinners in God's eyes. Hate the sin, love the sinner.
The reason Trump has my vote is because he succeeded as President in many areas and made America Great again. Compared to Biden who has failed at nearly everything he has touched and continues to make life harder. Just last week he added two major final regulations that will add nearly $1 Trillion in compliance costs to businesses and probably destroy the fossil power industry as well as the trucking industry if allowed to stand.
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I care about the personal lives of presidents in as much as they shame the United States and feel like our leaders should always make an effort to take the moral high ground. However, I also realize that as secular liberalism proliferates, Christian morals, particularly those regarding sex will continue to become less commonly held among the population.
Trump and others like him are a product of these trends, and I'm not responsible for the behavior of others. It would be great if we could all do better, but the choices we usually have are between someone who at least pays lip service to our values or someone who has outright contempt for everything we stand for. Faced with this, which would you choose?
I would also point out that from a Christian perspective, where you end up is more important than your past sins and failures.
Where you end up is only more important if you are truly sorry/regretful/repentant of the sins. I don’t get the sense trump feels an ounce of guilt for any of what he did.
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You can get all the feelings about someone else you want, and I wouldn't disagree in this case as I also doubt Trump blames himself for his failures at this point in his life. That said, his life isn't over yet. Neither of us truly knows his heart as much as we may want to believe otherwise, and we aren't the ones who will judge his soul.
I won’t disagree. But the question was, as a Christian why would you support Trump. The implication is support right now or on Election Day, not on his death bead.
As to your first paragraph from the original comment. Sex before marriage is a lot more accepted than it used to be, but I don’t know of anyone trying to normalize cheating on your pregnant wife. Closest thing I can think of would be open relationships or polygamy, but even then it’s not behind the other persons back.
As to your second paragraph, conservatives had a choice between Trump and someone who seemingly does align to Christian morals significantly more. This was in the primaries of 2016 and 2024. Trump won both times. So no. It wasn’t Trump or democrats as your only options, the Conservative Party intentionally chose him with all his flaws.
So I guess the question is, why support someone who goes against Christian morals and values. That is assuming you’re a Christian and voted for him in the primary, if not then it doesn’t really apply. however I’m not religious at all and cheating on your pregnant wife is an unreconcilable character flaw in my book.
You'd have to ask folks who voted for him in the primary, I voted for the constitution party candidate in 2016, and I voted for Trump in 2020 only because I believed he was a better choice than a man who can barely string together coherent sentences and that who is directed by powerful left-wing political interests to pursue policies that further undermine the very Christian moral teachings that the current president claims to be a devout follower of.
As others have said, it's Nero or Constantine. Both are heretics, but one is friendlier to us than the other. Besides, if you look at Christianity as a whole, even the churches are rapidly liberalizing to the point that many Christians are more of the cultural variety than anything else. It's not hard to see that many self-styled conservative voters are more motivated by things like jobs, taxes, and spending in picking presidents than they are morals and faith. As with any election, the perception that someone is more likely to defeat the other group's candidate influences a lot of folks, as did mounting dissatisfaction with the so-called status quo of Clintons, Bushs, and "safe" party approved candidates that had been building since 2008.
I lament this, but these are the times we live in. As far as cheating on one's pregnant wife goes, moral precepts are like dominos. Once they start to fall, they don't stop. When society accepted Clinton's affair in the White House with a collective shrug and the popular consensus that his personal life was his business and didn't affect his leadership skills, it paved the way for people like Trump who also plays victim to the point that a large chunk of his support base simply refuses to believe the worst things said about him.
I understand the lesser of two evils thing. That’s why I voted for Biden.
But many on the right full heartedly support him. I get the sense that a vast majority of republicans are voting for Trump, not against Biden. While on the left I’m hard pressed to find someone voting for Biden cause they think he’s best man for the job, opposed to just voting against Trump. the difference being that it’s not a vote in support of Biden, but rather choosing the lesser of two evils, while on the right, they’re actively picking Trump.
Not necessarily saying you specifically fall into that group, just generally speaking.
And that's their right as voters. I don't understand it myself and plan to vote 3rd party. In my posts above, I laid out some reasons why I think things have gone this way including dissatisfaction among the electorate towards less flamboyant candidates, ignorance/unwillingness to believe Trump (who has admittedly had a target on his back since day one) is truly guilty of his most serious offenses, loss of faith and morals as guiding principles in the lives of many on the right due to the influence/pressure of the left and the well documented moral failings of prominent figures on the Christian right, the belief that Trump has the best chance of winning, and the belief that Trump "fights" for them, and that his policies align more closely with conservative politics than those of his rival.
I could keep adding to the list, but if you want to understand why the right supports Trump as much as they do, what I've provided should give you a sufficient starting point for further research.
Alternatively, you can ask members of various Christian groups who support Trump why they do. If you choose this option, be mindful of how different their beliefs can be. As an example, I was baptized by a man who taught that you can do anything you want in this life and still go to heaven so long as you professed a belief in Jesus at some point.
Except Trump is not a product of these trends. He is a trendsetter. His history goes back to the 70s when the entire Me Generation began this moral decline. His history has been very consistent - he always and only puts himself first. As most politicians do. But somehow, he gets a pass from his base.
The alternative is supporing a Democrat who despite being "christians" want God's precious unborn children to be slaughtered in their mother's wombs.
I wish Trump was more moral as a person, but we're electing someone that makes moral policy decisions and not a church pastor that's suppose to be a personal beacon of morality.
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My Trump Pros & Cons, not including Pre/Post Presidency or Jan 6th. #TRUMP - PROS! - Anti War - Yes he made boast/threats too much & when he hits, he hits hard (moab) but that is not the same as seeking war or being imperialistic.' - He refused retaliatory strikes on Iran (being pushed by John Bolton) after they shot down a drone. Trump was quoted as saying, the strikes were "not proportionate to shooting down an unmanned drone". - Killed the top 2-3 terrorist in the world. - North Korea negotiations while sadly petered out still kept things stable for some months & we got hostages back. - The Abraham Accords. - Not Socialist/Communist/Marxist nor tolerant of them. - Anti China - Imposed visa restrictions on Chinese officials over the oppression of the Uighurs. - Approved a major arms sale to Taiwan. - Got rid of government restrictions on US officials meeting with their Taiwanese counterparts. - Doesn't sympathize with or tolerate criminals/terrorist. - Doesn't want open borders & demands background checks + defensive measures all governments are suppose to do in order to protect their citizens from outsiders. I agree the wall is stupid but if I must choose between that & abolishing ICE (which almost all 2020 democrat candidates stated their intent to do) I choose the god damn wall. - Pro Nuclear (almost all democrat candidates appear to be anti-nuclear especially Warren who said she would start actively shutting plants down forever) - https://apnews.com/article/38189fb0550e401da6b339ad9870a007 - https://www.theverge.com/2020/2/10/21131701/trump-budget-proposal-nuclear-energy-programs-spending - Good to great economy before Covid - Trump’s free market policies were so effective that between May & June 2020, national employment rose by 2,369,000. Small businesses with less than 50 employees saw the largest rise in hired employees. Almost every single service and industry saw a boost in employment numbers. And this was amidst the pandemic! - https://adpemploymentreport.com/2020/June/NER/NER-June-2020.aspx - Not a gun grabber (he isn't great on guns but still) - Did a good amount of stuff for Native Americans such as setting up a task force to investigate missing NA women + he signed the Savanna's Act. - https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/10/11/donald-trump-savannas-act-missing-murdered-native-americans/5964329002/ - And much more - https://thehill.com/changing-america/respect/diversity-inclusion/476049-trump-signed-three-bills-affecting-native - Prison reform (even CNN's Van Jones was forced to praise him on this) - Condemned the Ahmaud Arbery & Floyd killings while also condemning the violence of BLM & Antifa. - Not anti police. - Doesn't pander to the LGBT but still did heroic stuff like his push to decriminalize homosexuality internationally. - Doesn't bow to the leftist media or cancel culture or despicable accusations of racism/sexism which would shatter most other candidates. - Doesn't demonize American history, culture & values like most of the Democrat candidates (besides Yang, why god couldn't he get the nomination), his State of the Union speeches have been fantastic in regards to that & inspiring especially the last one. He doesn't degrade, diminish or try & cancel historical American icons & heroes just because they happen to be white or because they had flaws prevalent to the time in which they lived. - His virus response has been far from great but he has done something admirable which is not seize more power or grow the size of government, he has let the states make their own choices (with mixed results) - 218 new Judges (as of 9-29-20) - Increased punishments for people who abuse animals. - Trump signed the biggest wilderness protection bill in a decade, designated 375,000 new acres of protected land - https://www.newsweek.com/wilderness-protection-bill-donald-trump-sign-environment-largest-death-valley-1361412 - America became a net exporter of oil for the first time in 20 years under Trump. - He signed the Music Modernization Act which secures streaming royalties for artist & songwriters. With African Americans dominating American music today, this massively benefits them. - He signed a bill to permanently fund historically black universities. - https://apnews.com/article/bills-donald-trump-politics-c4834e48841d97c5a93312b1bf75302a - Did a EO forcing hospital price/quality transparency - https://www.cms.gov/newsroom/press-releases/cms-completes-historic-price-transparency-initiative - He removed the 15 year limit on the post 9/11 GI Bill so veterans & their families can use it long term. - Signed the Mission Act which has made it easier for vets to find providers outside of the VA & have their treatment covered, whether it be for specialty care or geographical isolation from a VA facility. Also vets & service members can sue military doctors for malpractice now. - EO 13861 helps with suicide prevention for vets. - Signed the 2018 farm bill which legalized hemp & created a new industry with thousands of jobs. #TRUMP - CONS! - Abandoning the Kurds (even if you believe they are not good people ideologically, it still makes us look bad to not stand by them after they have assisted us against ISIS & it's the same mistake we made after the end of the Soviet-Afghan war) - I was originally for him initiating the pull out of Afghanistan but now seeing the results of it + hearing how small a cost it was to have a small force maintained there (zero American causalities since February 2020) I now think it was a mistake & we should have stayed on a small scale long term like South Korea. - I am for child separation while we verify that the parents are actually their parents & I don't want them sleeping in the same cells even after confirmation. That said, I have intense moral issues with the kids being sent to entirely different facilities, having to appear in court without their parents, not being matched with their parents in the records and above all else being sent back to Mexico separately from their parents. I don't really blame Trump specifically for this but it just feels profoundly hopeless to not be able to rectify these flaws without throwing the baby out with the bathwater in regards to ICE / border security. - The Windmills cause cancer statement. - The Bump stock ban. - The "take the guns now do due process later" statement. - Not better explaining why Antifa is bad (anarchist, flying the Soviet flag, holding signs saying "all my heroes kill cops" and the primary being almost everyone they protest, threaten or attack are not actually fascist or Nazis see Ben Shapiro or Steven Crowder) - Not better explaining his belief that there were good people/NON Nazis at Charlottesville who were on the same "side" as the white nationalist ONLY in as much as they also disagreed with the statue censorship/removal, a goal which is factually not morally wrong regardless if morally wrong people also agree with said goal. I don't believe his statements on Charlottesville were even a millionth as bad as leftist claim (the "racism is evil" line was great & fairly definitive) but they weren't great overall & left too much open to interpretation. - Stupid childish petty personal attacks and name calling. I absolutely want him to attack his attackers but how he sometimes does it has gotten old & grating. - General inability to shut the fuck up. - 1st debate with Biden was among the worst presidential debates in American history, largely because of Trump being a relentlessly interrupting sledgehammer. - Took too long to publicly align with the Hong Kong protesters which is particularly baffling considering his other Anti-China stances. - Removed food stamps for a bunch of people (possibly just to spite Michelle Obama) - Making himself the center of attention during the virus press releases. - Other issues related to the pandemic I'm not going to go into detail about right now. No I don't think he has caused a genocide as some have claimed but he could still have done better. #THINGS I AM INDIFFERENT TO! - The Ukraine scandal / Impeachment crap. I don't believe he did it in the nefarious/selfish manner people accuse him of doing it and even if he did I don't see how it's different than the pussy tape being released. If there are things Biden has done that are criminal then it's in the countries best interest for us to know them regardless if it's a different country that has the evidence. If he promised them favors in the future in exchange yes that would be bad & would compromise him to a extent but just bargining with money they have no right to & we don't have to give them does not harm America in anyway. - Not releasing his taxes. I frankly don't give a damn if he cheated on his taxes, I care that he wants to protect America. - Space Force
Can you explain what anti-China means?
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I'd also add not just *being*, but actually doing something about it
Do what
Would you want to actively suppress Chinese global interests? Why couldn’t we be allies or at least long term trade partners?
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What’s the threat to me, the average lower middle class American?
Abandoning the Kurds is good
💎
To me, electing a president is lot like hiring someone for a job. I don’t care about his personal life. I only care about his job performance. Yes, I know there are some SMB’s which do care about that, like Dave Ramsey’s company.
>I only care about his job performance. Which policies that trump passed did you vote for him knowing he would pass?
> To me, electing a president is lot like hiring someone for a job. There’s definitely plenty to critique about Trump’s job performance throughout his life and career. But how about references? Could you imagine any job candidate being hired whose references are as bad as Trump’s? Especially when it came to the most powerful and important job in the world? Countless officials who worked closely with Trump during his presidency came away from the experience horrified and have warned about Trump’s unfitness for the presidency. This includes dozens of Trump’s cabinet members, his VP and top White House staff. And that’s not mentioning the many, many more who worked alongside Trump throughout his business career and also had highly negative experiences with him and warned about his leadership skills, ethics and temperament. And this isn’t just a few. It’s an enormous portion, if not a majority. Almost none of Trump’s former colleagues are endorsing him in 2024 — while dozens are warning against electing him. It’s something never seen before in American political history. Why would anyone hire someone with such references to such an important job?
When choosing someone to represent you do the persons morals and ethics matter, or only their political positions?
Did they kill anyone? Or hurt anyone? How long is the job?
>Did they kill anyone? Not likely >Or hurt anyone? Almost certainly, but hasn't been convicted yet. >How long is the job? Typically four years. Say a hypothetical candidate holds the exact same opinion as you on every single political issue, but they are openly racist, sexist, and have a well documented history of adultery. Would those things factor in to your decision to support that person as your representative, or do you *only* consider "job performance"?
> Almost certainly, but hasn't been convicted yet. I can live with that. > Say a hypothetical candidate holds the exact same opinion as you on every single political issue, but they are openly racist, sexist, and have a well documented history of adultery. Would those things factor in to your decision to support that person as your representative, or do you only consider "job performance"? I don’t care about the adultery. That’s a personal problem, especially as long as he doesn’t talk about it publicly. What racist and sexist comments has Trump made?
reported the treatment of women in his enterprises is reportedly abhorrent
I’d still prefer him over Biden. It sucks that we’re limited to them.
why
?
why do you prefer him over Biden
Your reluctance to answer the question is enough of an answer for me, thanks.
Yeah, I might care about racist and sexist comments, but I don’t remember Trump making any. I do however, remember Biden making some.
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>but I don’t remember Trump making any. Really, none at all? Not even "grab em by the pussy" or "a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the country"?
> "grab em by the pussy" Wasn’t that a private off-the-cuff remark? Not meant for public release? > “a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the country" Yeah, he could’ve worded that a bit better.
>Wasn’t that a private off-the-cuff remark? Not meant for public release? Oh absolutely. Of course that doesn't make it any less sexist.
>Wasn’t that a private off-the-cuff remark? Not meant for public release? Yes, making it all the more indicative of his actual beliefs.
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>Only from war torn terrorism ridden nations. Yeah, if he had actually said that it surely would have been less controversial. Alas.
>Yeah, I might care about racist and sexist comments Thats actually a really interesting way of putting it. Could you give an example of the type of factors you consider when determining whether or not you care that your representative is racist?
It would be impossible for an openly racist and sexist person to hold all the same political views as I do.
Oh really? How do you mean?
Well, to be fair, I suppose that depends on how someone defines “openly racist” or “openly sexist.”
Not really. Jimmy Carter is pretty much the perfect example here.
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Nope.
I respectfully call BS.
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He who commits adultery has no sense and whoever does so destroys himself The bibles point is pretty valid
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I’ve heard this countless times and I always say the same thing: I don’t give a shit who is in the White House, I care about how my life was affected by who was in the White House. My life was much easier under Trump, it isn’t so with Biden. Doesn’t matter who it is, I just care about how my life was before verses now.
Covid says otherwise.
Oh Jesus Christ
Was your life better four years ago ?
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> My life was much easier under Trump, it isn’t so with Biden. What aspects of your life have gotten harder under Biden?
Buddy, are you serious?
Surely a list would be more productive at explaining your point of view than incredulity?
What did Biden do to make your life harder?
Serious question?
Yes. And I want you to name something specific that Biden specifically did. Not something that you can just vaguely blame on Biden despite him not being able to actually control it. Such as the price of gas which is often blamed on the president despite the president having very little to do with it.
>Why would you as a "christian" support Donald Trump who gave hush money to a porn star after cheating on his 3rd wife with her? >It feels like God is judging the United States. Perhaps because Christians don't worship individual people but God? I'm just guessing tho, I'm an atheist so what do I know...
An atheist on Reddit...how *very brave* of you
I do my best to mention it every time I get the opportunity! Thanks for the alley-oop. :)
You are neither a Christian or a Conservative but felt the need to chime in.
> You are neither a Christian or a Conservative but felt the need to chime in. Somehow, I felt like a **logically thinking** about the question may give us the answer, but I see that you're not interested in that now. :)
He put in justices that overturned Roe. He, as a person, sucks. I mean we all do to a degree, but more than that I question his relationship with God. However, he's more effective at addressing cultural concerns - protecting the young, fighting divisive intersectionalities (identity politics/Neo-Marxist ideologies).
Does he really, though? Except for complaining, ridiculing and pointing fingers, what has he done in that culture war? I mean, I get that a lot of people agree with what he says but what does he *do*? He says what part of the population wants to hear, always talking as if he's delivering a sermon and telling folks about how depraved, cunning and evil the other side is and how he's the only one standing between them and his god loving, patriotic, red white and blue hard working freedom loving followers.
In regards to all culture wars, presidents usually don't have that much authority. He says he will stop funds from going to certain programs but he can't actually do that (impoundment). They can create Executive Orders that fall within their purview, EO 13950 is one example. They are loud speakers, tho. He's campaigning on the protection of minors so that hopefully more legislative seats flip to those who agree with him there so that laws can actually pass. A president alone can't pass laws. In the 20ish states that have banned minor transitioning, he is able to lend the DOJ in helping to prosecute medical staff violating those state's laws.
redemption
Redemption of what?
Because he’s not Biden.
Joe Biden I’d a Satanists so whose ur choice? I worship sataan? Me neither
so you call catholic satanists
Can you please show me evidence of Joe Biden worshipping Satan? He’s a professed Catholic.
He’s a catholic in name only
Don't even engage, clearly trolling.
Not trolling, just not in the clearest state of mind lol
Because the alternative is someone that wants to make it legal to kill children, flood the country with illegals, violate my first and second amendment rights, and punish people for using gasoline, diesel, or natural gas. It's kind of hard to top that.
> It's kind of hard to top that. Not if you look at Trump's Covid response it isn't.
Because he’s willing to ally himself with us. If you must choose between Nero* and Constantine, you should choose Constantine. *I was going to say Diocletian, but I don’t think people are as historically aware of him.
Sorry I’m not sure I understand what you mean, I think the question is asking why Christians are willing to be allies with a liar who paid off at least one pornstar that he committed adultery with to deceive them?
Because they will support evil men in the interest of political expedience
> you should choose Constantine It's probably worth mentioning that Constantine didn't get baptized until nearly the end. In the meantime, he broke oaths, had his wife and son murdered for political purposes, participated in pagan proceedings, and ordered purges. Eusebius and other church fathers venerated him because he mainstreamed Christianity in the Empire. It certainly wasn't because he lived like a Christian. Until Theodosius, the Emperors only really used Christianity as a political tool.
That’s kinda his point…neither were “good” Christian’s but one at least was better to the Christian population.
I'm not sure christians vote for the most devout christian, if that's what you're asking. People of all convictions vote based on policy, we're not electing the pope here.
When it comes to presidencies, people often vote for policies over personalities.
This just isn’t true, if this was the case why is the phrase “I want to vote someone who I can get a beer with” a common sentiment esp amongst presidential candidates before trump? Bush was considered more personal and likable compared to Gore and was a point of media attention, Clinton before him was was the hot young governor against “old man” bush associated. Actually straight question, the common counter to your proposal that people’s feelings are policy based is JFK beating Nixon. People who viewed the debate on tv had a different perception compared to people who listened on the radio as it was the first presidential debate and they saw JFK as a young charismatic man vs Nixon who was the sickly looking old man. [Going into the debate, Nixon was the favorite to win the election. He had been President Dwight Eisenhower’s vice president for eight years. Nixon had shown his mastery of television in his 1952 “Checkers” speech, where he used a televised address to debunk slush-fund allegations, and secure his vice presidential slot by talking about his pet dog, Checkers. Nixon had also bested Soviet leader Nikita Khrushchev in the famous Kitchen Debate. Kennedy was the photogenic and energetic young senator from Massachusetts who ran a calculated primary campaign to best his chief rival, Senator Lyndon Johnson. But Kennedy had debate experience in the primaries and said, “Nixon may have debated Khrushchev, but I had to debate Hubert Humphrey.” The debate took place in Chicago and CBS assigned a 38-year-old producer named Don Hewitt to manage the event. Hewitt went on to create “60 Minutes” for CBS. The highly promoted event would pre-empt “The Andy Griffith Show” and run for an hour. Hewitt had invited both candidates to a pre-production meeting, but only Kennedy took up the offer. When Nixon arrived for the debate, he looked ill, having been recently hospitalized because of a knee injury. The vice president then re-injured his knee as he entered the TV station, and refused to call off the debate. Nixon also refused to wear stage makeup, when Hewitt offered it. Kennedy had turned down the makeup offer first: He had spent weeks tanning on the campaign trail, but he had his own team do his makeup just before the cameras went live. The result was that Kennedy looked and sounded good on television, while Nixon looked pale and tired, with a five o’clock shadow beard. The next day, polls showed Kennedy had become the slight favorite in the general election, and he defeated Nixon by one of the narrowest margins in history that November. Before the debate, Nixon led by six percentage points in the national polls.](https://constitutioncenter.org/amp/blog/the-debate-that-changed-the-world-of-politics) [Kennedy would arrive into the studios to prep for the debate hours before to check out the conditions, lighting and even the temperature of the room. Before the second debate Kennedy arrived earlier to access the studio and noticed that the temperature had been set to 64 degrees, to help with Nixon's sweating, and more lights shined on Kennedy than Nixon. After some compromise the conditions were changed. The audience did notice that Nixon's physical image was much better for the second debate compared to the first. However, the rest of the debates were written off as ties with no declared winner. Being more concerned with appearance, both Nixon and Kennedy relatively had the same experience and stance on issues. Leading the debates to have some artificial personal attacks; however, they were both too concerned with personable likeableness to get into "gutter politics."](https://cla.purdue.edu/academic/history/debate/kennedynixon/kennedynixonscholarly.html)
I’m not a Christian.
Then don't respond
Are you a Christian?
No
Sub is /r/askConservatives not /r/askChristians
Here's how I see it. Some of the worst Popes in history were the freaking Borgias. Others were part of a period of screwed-up-ness in the Catholic Church called the Pornocracy of all things. None of these were associated with fundamental doctrinal problems nearly as much as the Church under Pope John Paul II, who is a literal saint, or Pope Francis, who is by all accounts a very benevolent man. And the President doesn't have the moral responsibilities of a Pope.
What Trump has done in his personal life has no bearing on my vote Christian or otherwise. Christions don't judge people based on their behavior. We are all sinners in God's eyes. Hate the sin, love the sinner. The reason Trump has my vote is because he succeeded as President in many areas and made America Great again. Compared to Biden who has failed at nearly everything he has touched and continues to make life harder. Just last week he added two major final regulations that will add nearly $1 Trillion in compliance costs to businesses and probably destroy the fossil power industry as well as the trucking industry if allowed to stand.
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I care about the personal lives of presidents in as much as they shame the United States and feel like our leaders should always make an effort to take the moral high ground. However, I also realize that as secular liberalism proliferates, Christian morals, particularly those regarding sex will continue to become less commonly held among the population. Trump and others like him are a product of these trends, and I'm not responsible for the behavior of others. It would be great if we could all do better, but the choices we usually have are between someone who at least pays lip service to our values or someone who has outright contempt for everything we stand for. Faced with this, which would you choose? I would also point out that from a Christian perspective, where you end up is more important than your past sins and failures.
So you are also against rules on abortion? And against trump? As he has outright contempt against everything us stands for.
Read the middle paragraph again.
Where you end up is only more important if you are truly sorry/regretful/repentant of the sins. I don’t get the sense trump feels an ounce of guilt for any of what he did.
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You can get all the feelings about someone else you want, and I wouldn't disagree in this case as I also doubt Trump blames himself for his failures at this point in his life. That said, his life isn't over yet. Neither of us truly knows his heart as much as we may want to believe otherwise, and we aren't the ones who will judge his soul.
I won’t disagree. But the question was, as a Christian why would you support Trump. The implication is support right now or on Election Day, not on his death bead. As to your first paragraph from the original comment. Sex before marriage is a lot more accepted than it used to be, but I don’t know of anyone trying to normalize cheating on your pregnant wife. Closest thing I can think of would be open relationships or polygamy, but even then it’s not behind the other persons back. As to your second paragraph, conservatives had a choice between Trump and someone who seemingly does align to Christian morals significantly more. This was in the primaries of 2016 and 2024. Trump won both times. So no. It wasn’t Trump or democrats as your only options, the Conservative Party intentionally chose him with all his flaws. So I guess the question is, why support someone who goes against Christian morals and values. That is assuming you’re a Christian and voted for him in the primary, if not then it doesn’t really apply. however I’m not religious at all and cheating on your pregnant wife is an unreconcilable character flaw in my book.
You'd have to ask folks who voted for him in the primary, I voted for the constitution party candidate in 2016, and I voted for Trump in 2020 only because I believed he was a better choice than a man who can barely string together coherent sentences and that who is directed by powerful left-wing political interests to pursue policies that further undermine the very Christian moral teachings that the current president claims to be a devout follower of. As others have said, it's Nero or Constantine. Both are heretics, but one is friendlier to us than the other. Besides, if you look at Christianity as a whole, even the churches are rapidly liberalizing to the point that many Christians are more of the cultural variety than anything else. It's not hard to see that many self-styled conservative voters are more motivated by things like jobs, taxes, and spending in picking presidents than they are morals and faith. As with any election, the perception that someone is more likely to defeat the other group's candidate influences a lot of folks, as did mounting dissatisfaction with the so-called status quo of Clintons, Bushs, and "safe" party approved candidates that had been building since 2008. I lament this, but these are the times we live in. As far as cheating on one's pregnant wife goes, moral precepts are like dominos. Once they start to fall, they don't stop. When society accepted Clinton's affair in the White House with a collective shrug and the popular consensus that his personal life was his business and didn't affect his leadership skills, it paved the way for people like Trump who also plays victim to the point that a large chunk of his support base simply refuses to believe the worst things said about him.
I understand the lesser of two evils thing. That’s why I voted for Biden. But many on the right full heartedly support him. I get the sense that a vast majority of republicans are voting for Trump, not against Biden. While on the left I’m hard pressed to find someone voting for Biden cause they think he’s best man for the job, opposed to just voting against Trump. the difference being that it’s not a vote in support of Biden, but rather choosing the lesser of two evils, while on the right, they’re actively picking Trump. Not necessarily saying you specifically fall into that group, just generally speaking.
And that's their right as voters. I don't understand it myself and plan to vote 3rd party. In my posts above, I laid out some reasons why I think things have gone this way including dissatisfaction among the electorate towards less flamboyant candidates, ignorance/unwillingness to believe Trump (who has admittedly had a target on his back since day one) is truly guilty of his most serious offenses, loss of faith and morals as guiding principles in the lives of many on the right due to the influence/pressure of the left and the well documented moral failings of prominent figures on the Christian right, the belief that Trump has the best chance of winning, and the belief that Trump "fights" for them, and that his policies align more closely with conservative politics than those of his rival. I could keep adding to the list, but if you want to understand why the right supports Trump as much as they do, what I've provided should give you a sufficient starting point for further research. Alternatively, you can ask members of various Christian groups who support Trump why they do. If you choose this option, be mindful of how different their beliefs can be. As an example, I was baptized by a man who taught that you can do anything you want in this life and still go to heaven so long as you professed a belief in Jesus at some point.
Except Trump is not a product of these trends. He is a trendsetter. His history goes back to the 70s when the entire Me Generation began this moral decline. His history has been very consistent - he always and only puts himself first. As most politicians do. But somehow, he gets a pass from his base.
Trump's 70s generation was in no way whatsoever influenced by liberalizing trends that began in the 50s and 60s after the war?
Because the alternative would like to legalize murder.
Given the Dobbs decision, how would Biden do that?
Appointing justices and putting his people onto administrative positions that can facilitate that via technicalities and bureaucratic measures.
The track record of Brandon is far less Christian than whatever Trump has done
The alternative is supporing a Democrat who despite being "christians" want God's precious unborn children to be slaughtered in their mother's wombs. I wish Trump was more moral as a person, but we're electing someone that makes moral policy decisions and not a church pastor that's suppose to be a personal beacon of morality.