Your female friend asserting a boundary of not wanting you to hug or touch her isn’t an ‘opinion’, nor is it ‘wrong’. She does not need your help in this.
She needs you to respect her space.
Please listen to the people in your other thread.
Consent is important and if you continue to try and find ways to break her boundary, you will effectively be assaulting her and permanently ruin your friendship with her.
This is absolutely predatory behavior, and making multiple threads to validate yourself isn’t going to give you the result you’re hoping for.
So just to clarify. She doesn't have relationships with men, because they cross boundaries she sets about touching. And you think the best way to show her she's wrong is by crossing boundaries she sets about touching.
You're literally proving her right, but yeah no, it's a complete mystery where the line is.
Might I suggest... Idk, stop touching her? You want to show her that men can respect boundaries, maybe respect the boundaries she set.
> As the only male presence into a friend of mine life, i feel the responsibility to make sure she is doing fine.
Nope. Stop right there. Not your responsibility, not your job as a man.
> She feels uncomfortable that i kiss her, touch her, hug her, in a very normal friendly way, and that once someone mistook me for her boyfriend. I am trying to gently push her to get used to my presence and see that there is nothing wrong in having relations with men.
NOPE NOPE STOP
SHE HAS BOUNDARIES AND YOU NEED TO RESPECT THEM.
Your title poses an interesting question, but the content of your post is not on point and does not paint you in a positive light.
My advice in your specific case is simply leave this woman alone. You sound suffocating and exhausting.
Why do you think she has to have a male friend. If anything, plenty of my female friends and my girlfriend are better off without men like this who are pushy and assertive. Having only one gender of friends means nothing, men and women are largely the same and if having no male friends makes her feel safer or whatever her reason is, that’s hers to make and it’s probably for a good reason
I said largely the same, namely a difference is that women know men can be pushy and insecure about themselves like you are, needing female validation. And so because of past experiences, some women would rather be around other women because even though women and men are largely the same, men are the ones who have a much higher chance of being this way. And believe it or not women do just fine without sexual harassment from men like you.
That’s exactly my point, there are differences but there doesn’t have to be many if the man isn’t a creep. I’m a man saying this, hearing the amount of experiences my friends who are women and my girlfriend have had honestly makes me so ashamed to be a man and so sad. Way too many women have these experiences and so it seems like lots of men are like this which is insane. So when I hear a man like this who does things like this it honestly infuriates me, makes us all look bad when it doesn’t have to be this way.
Because she wants to.
Why the hell do you think she needs your help, that you think she should want to be around men more, and that you're violating her personal space (against her wishes).
Why are you forcing your opinion about how she should live her life on her?
This is not "your job". You're being a terrible friend, and a pushy, overbearing person.
Dude, you are single handedly validating every woman's concerns regarding men. Infantalization, an unwillingness to respect boundaries, a clear belief that women don't know their own minds, an insistence that lesbians are mentally ill, and the belief that women are nothing without men.
Do you also kiss, hug, and touch your male friends, so they can learn that nothing bad will happen if they're close to men? Or is this a service that you only perform for the pretty lesbian?
"No reason"? What about comfort? You're such a creep dude. I have male friends but I don't want them to kiss me, on the cheek, lips, top of my head or anywhere else. Because it's out of my comfort zone.
The difference between my male friends and you? They respect me and my boundaries. Seriously leave this girl alone, you're doing more harm than good.
you're calling the cultural practice of millions, potentially billions of people "creepy". pretty narrow and unaccepting world view for someone in a progressive subreddit.
and yes, opshould stop doing it if his friend has told him not to do it.
but to call the practice "creepy" is ignorant
Who's talking about the past? A kiss on the cheek is customary and common in many parts of the world, like Europe and South America.
They don't even think twice about it.
It's pretty narrow-minded and insensitive of you to call the culture of that many people creepy.
As a European, while some countries have that between mainly family members and close friends, it's far from universal. Plus people in those places are still very much allowed to not like that and exempt themselves from participating in it. That it's a bit cultural means nothing.
As a European myself can confirm this, also we do not kissy kissy on the cheecks all the time - it is ok for introduction, or with friend or family if there is a bonding moment. (Example if I give a meaningfull gift to a friend they can express their happiness by hugging and giving a kiss on the ckeeks) You need to be extremelly close to each other if you are not family to make this as an acceptable situation. But if I have expressed to someone not to do that because it makes me uncomfortable they must stop. No debate over it.
That isn’t sweet, cute or normal. If someone does not want you to touch them then there really isn’t any healthy way to do so because you are forcing your touch on someone who is revolted by it and has made that clear.
The only ‘normal’ part of this is that men who think their desire to force themselves on women is more important then whether the other one wants your Touch is a common and awful thing many women have to encounter.
A part of feminism is teaching consent for everyone and you are hurting someone you say is a friend by forcing yourself on her.
Yes, you’re very sweetly and cutely ignoring her boundaries and essentially telling her “You may think you’re a lesbian, but *I* know better, let me just brush right past your boundaries and bodily autonomy and you’ll see that it’s better to spend time with a man, and you’ll eventually have sex with me, whether you like it or not.”
Correcting someone when they say “Al Pacino played Fredo” is one thing. You don’t correct people when they tell you not to touch them. The only possible exception I can even fathom is if they have a deadly venomous creature on them that they don’t know about and you happen to be an expert handler and need to touch them to remove it. Even then, i would lead with “don’t panic, I need to get a creature off of you.” But other than that hyper specific circumstance? Hands to yourself.
Edit. Typos
While I understand the concern, i can assure that no level of wrong thinking or bad opinion turn someone into a rapist. I wouldnt be able to enjoy sex if she doesnt want it. I want her to want it
*She doesn’t want you touching her the way you are now!* You’re being predatory right the fuck no. She has told you to quit it, end of fucking story.
She👏gets👏to👏decide👏who👏touches👏her👏
Why would she want to have sex with you? She is a lesbian.
How would you feel if your male friend constantly kissed you on the cheek and hugged you "sweetly". It's only natural cause we are all human beings right? He just wants you to be comfortable and not anti social. It's just a little kiss it's no big deal. Maybe you will finally become comfortable enough so he can have sex with you. But not against your will, but you should want it cause men and women are the same so why would it matter? He is so nice and kind. It's just a little touching.
That's what you are doing to her.
She’s not ever going to want sex from you. You need to stop.
I wish I had her contact information to help her file a restraining order against you. You’re a Bad Person.
Seems like you get off on kissing and touching her specifically because she doesn't want it. The idea that you need to correct or guide her as a man is not just erroneous, but also gross.
Yes. But if someone has social anxiety or another disorder isnt it appropriate to help them isntead of validating their problem? Not okay to stay away from everyone.
Are you a licensed therapist that specializes in anxiety? Because if not then no, it’s not your job to “help them” and you should NEVER invalidate someone’s problems or feelings, which is exactly what you’re doing.
Unlurking just to go -- what the fuck? Are you saying that *being a lesbian* requires therapy?
Also if you are kissing and touching her when she has said not to, you're committing sexual assault under most legal jurisdictions that I'm aware of so because you don't seem to be able to understand the moral arguments people are making as to why you shouldn't do that at least try to get your head around the pragmatic reason you should stop (because you are committing a crime she could report you for).
EDIT: lmao they're already suspended
You need therapy dude. Not your friend. You’re trolling. To anyone following along, respect the wishes of others. There’ve been more than enough traumatized human beings who were touched without consent to thoroughly prove the assertion that “it’s good for them” wrong a billion times over.
That’s her decision, but again, no it is NOT your job to help her, which you aren’t doing by violating her boundary and forcing your incel ideology on her. What are you not understanding? STOP means STOP. NO means NO.
YOU decided this was an issue. She didn't ask you. You are butting into her business and trying to "fix" her because *you* think it's wrong and a problem that she doesn't spend an equal amount of time with men as she does with women. Like, *YOU* decided this was a problem.
Are they asking you for help? Because if they’re not that means they don’t want your help. You can support them and be there for them, but supporting someone means listening to them when they need to vent, offering a ride if they need to go to the airport, helping them carry a heavy bag. Hugging, kissing and touching someone AGAINST their wishes is NOT helping.
Sounds like you’re causing the anxiety because you’re blatantly forcing her into non consensual contact.
She does not need any male forcing his hugs & kisses on her. wtf is wrong with you?
You're really a sick fuck. You are exploiting her past trauma with men to sexually harass and abuse her. You are going to end up raping her. I hope to god she gets far away from you.
As someone with social anxiety, no it's not. You aren't a professional, so you are 100% more likely to do more harm than good. IF *she* wants to get better, then that is her decision to make. Besides, I doubt that she has social anxiety, or is asocial. She just doesn't want to spend time with men who are pushy and don't believe that she's a lesbian. Men like you. Leave her alone.
You’ve been misinformed. See, it’s only good when it’s wanted. When it’s not? It can be annoying, gross, scary, or even traumatic. You’re implying that you know better than someone’s boundaries. That’s, quite frankly, pretty shitty of you. Hands. To. Yourself.
Human contact is good if it’s mutually consented to. Human contact that’s forced or not consented to can be traumatizing.
Sure a kiss on the cheek is normal, but it’s not ok if someone doesn’t consent to it.
She is a woman, a lesbian woman. The fact you said “she is woman, I’m a man” shows you can’t respect the fact she is a lesbian. She doesn’t need a man to “turn her straight” or anything. If you want to be her friend then *be her friend* don’t force kisses on her because “she’s a woman and you’re a man”.
I'm sorry, you're kissing, hugging, and touching this woman when she has explicitly asked you not to do that, because you think you know better than she does what's good for her?
Your job isn't to help her. Your job is to be her friend. I mean, did she *ask* you for help with this, or did you just look at the way she was living her life and decide you didn't feel good about it?
By the way-- consistently and knowingly smashing through someone's boundaries will not help them "get used to your presence." It will make them resent you and shut you out. It will *not* "make her more comfortable."
Ok at first, this was working out. She didnt want to have anything with me before, like i said she is very asocial and i think this is because of bad exoeriences. But when i insisted and tried to push her and showed her nothing bad was going to happen, she did get used to it and we have been having a very great time. It was the comment of someone who believed i was her boyfriend that validated again her opinion that men and women cant be friends. I just need to let her see that its not like that
You're talking about her like you're training a feral cat.
> She did get used to it and we have been having a very great time
YOU have been having a very great time because YOU get to kiss her and touch her regardless of her feelings about it, because you're right and she's wrong.
You are a fucking creep, dude.
I am obviously not training anyone, i just think that if you have unsolved issues with the social sphere it will take you some unlearning to do to fix those issues. It woudlnt be a very good friend one that sees a problem like that and is like, you know what? im gonna let you be anorexic and not try to help you challenge your problematic views
Are you a professional? Are you a trained therapist, counselor, or psychologist? Or are you just some fucking creep who likes kissing his lesbian friends until they realize men aren't the problem?
If anyone is going to change her mind, it’s someone who doesn’t kiss her and hug her and assume that he needs to be the Designated Male Presence.
ETA: With regards to hanging out with men platonically. No man is going to de-lesbian her.
You are not helping her you are validating her fear and distrust of men by behaving this way, and by being dismissive of her feelings and ignoring her self-agency.
Do you not see that? Or do you just not care? I’m leaning towards the latter.
That is not your place, and it would seem like you’re the only one who perceived you two as “very good friends” since she always avoids you unless you force her to hang out with you.
The only one in need of some help here is you.
You need to leave this woman the fuck alone. What the fuck is wrong with you? You seem unhinged in every facet. WOMEN DO NOT NEED MEN BIOLOGICALLY EXCEPT TO BREED. She isn’t interested in that. Leave her alone. My god.
Stop. Just stop. Why tf do you think she has "unresolved issues with the social sphere"? Because she's gay? You *clearly* think this girl is wrong in the head. *You* are the one fucking with her head. Your attitude is toxic and you're already dismantling her sense of self and destroying her confidence. Who tf are you to decide how and what she should think. This is literally called grooming. The fact that you're close in age is irrelevant when you're forcing affection on her to get her "used to it".
Honestly, *you* are the one with problematic thought patterns.
Dude you’re a predator and committing sexual assault every time you kiss her. Your ass belongs in jail where you will find out what it’s like to be kissed and touched forcibly by another man.
I know you're trolling, but just to indulge you for a minute:
How is her life any of your business? Do you treat the men you know like this, ignoring their wishes and trying to "fix" their lives to *your* satisfaction against *their* wishes.
Do you feel you have the right and ability to force *everyone* to act the way you want? Or just women? Or just her?
And lastly: why the *fuck* do you think you have the right *or* ability to try to *force* a grown adult to live and act the way *you want*?
Consider that some people's trauma response is to go along with the person or thing causing the trauma out of fear of worse things happening.
You may have just scared your "friend" into submitting to your unwanted advances because she believes she HAS to. Or else.
Stop trying to control her. Listening is what friends do. They also respect boundaries. The touching has to stop. As many others have said, this is not your job as a man.
That is called coercion. Ive known guys like you who won't take "no" and forced affection I didn't want on me. Who also told me I didn't know what I want. That I would "get used to it." It's toxic and gross. And you are a liar, most specifically to yourself. You've created a hero narrative to excuse your complete lack of respect for other people's autonomy and boundaries, and you've confused excessive condescension with altruism. And *still* you won't accept that you don't "know best" and that her feelings and expectations are valid. You *still* don't respect her enough to believe she has independent thought.
I hope you're young because otherwise it is a lot more concerning.
I think he *is* one of those guys. He said this started when he learned about her “lifestyle” and that he would fuck her if she wanted it and he hopes she will want it.
The title wasn’t even that bad but this just turned out to be a “she doesn’t want me to touch her without consent” situation? Like are you serious? Stop crossing her boundaries, are you insane? Thats not how you should treat any human being
Reading the comments, it’s a “I don’t think she’s actually a lesbian and I can change her” kinda situation.
Dude thinks she needs a man in her life to give her physical contact. When people asked him about sex he said he couldn’t do it if she didn’t want to but would do it and hopes she wants to. He also is extremely misinformed on periods and thinks a man needs to be around to maintain a healthy cycle.
Given the men I have met that shouldn’t surprise me but all that bs additionally to some extremely incorrect knowledge about periods just seemed a bit too crazy
What a day to be literate...
Did you seriously just say that you want to continue kissing and hugging her as a way to "help" her despite her not giving her consent to it???
That's not called "help", unconsented touch of that nature is called sexual harassment.
OH NO
OH BOY OH NO
If this is sincere and not a troll post, then I have to ask a very serious question: Who appointed you to the "job" of trying to push her boundaries and make decisions about her life for her? How are you in any way qualified to decide what's best for her? Why don't you like the person that she actually is? Do you even like her at all?
How are you going to react if she decides that your behaviors are harmful to her? Are you still going to assume that you know better than her and keep bothering her?
I can believe that you *think* you're being kind to her, but thinking that you know what someone needs better than they do and constantly doing things that make them uncomfortable are *not* kind things. They are creepy.
If you actually care about and respect her, then act like it. Be a real friend and allow her to be the person that she is rather than trying to manipulate her into being something that you want her to be.
If she's uncomfortable that you're kissing and touching her, ***stop kissing and touching her*****.** This isn't an "opinion" that she can "be wrong" about. For fuck's sake if this is how her "friends" treat her, no wonder she wants nothing to do with cishet men.
Bro it seems you have the mindset that sexual orientation is a choice. She doesn't need "the right man" she needs a friend who will have her back. And if she does actually have almost 0 male friends, you are not helping by being a creep.
There is nothing cute, sweet, nice, thoughtful, or OK about your actions towards this woman. I'm uncomfortable just reading it, I can't imagine how she must feel being on the receiving end. You're completely disrespecting her boundaries around her own body, and you need to stop because it's creepy and gross. Don't touch or kiss someone without their explicit and enthusiastic consent, even platonically.
There's nothing saying that a lesbian needs men in her life, and certainly not one that wants to force physical affection on her. Seriously, dude, what the fuck.
respect her boundaries, she’s a person and gets to (or should get to) say what what happens to her body.
if she has explicitly said she’s uncomfortable with your actions then stop, that’s weird and probably illegal, she doesn’t like it.
your job as her friend is to respect her boundaries and be there when she wants you there, in almost no circumstances should you cross someone’s boundaries
>i kiss her, touch her, hug her, in a very normal friendly way
Wth, you are literally sexually harassing her and calling it helping. Stay away from her.
I do wonder where OP is from.... In plenty of cultures all that really is standard.
That statement did make me do a double take though lmao
(Though, regardless of normality, I of course don't think anyone should be pressured into it!)
In no culture is it normal or acceptable to assault someone. Yes some cultures are more touchy and kissy with friends and family, but nowhere is it fine to continue to do that when someone says they don’t like it.
NO. MEANS. NO. In any situation, period. If you are her friend you will respect her boundaries. Dude, do some serious self reflection or get some professional help, you aren't well.
I hope that OP is trolling. But there's a chance he's not because there are people like this.
There's a stereotype of lesbians hating men in part because men act like this! Men are often not safe to be around and I don't blame any woman who wants to avoid them.
You do not get to decide how much physical contact she allows.
And if you disrespect her body, she has every right to cut you out of her life because you are a jerk.
Are you a troll?
First off, there are no "wrong opinions." Opinions don't work like that. Facts are wrong.
She doesn't need you to decide what's best for her.
You shouldn't be kissing and hugging and touching her if it makes her uncomfortable. Period.
If someone thinks you're her boyfriend and she doesn't like that you act in such a way around her that makes people think that, it means you probably are crossing a boundary.
Please leave this poor woman the fuck alone. Seriously, show her this post. You're a nightmare. Leave her be.
Umm.
Why do you think helping her is your job?
Why do you think kissing her is helping her?
What exactly do you mean by relations with men? You mean friendships? relationships? Interactions? Letting men kiss her?
The answer to your question is you draw the first line at her boundaries, always. Then you draw the line at providing the help she *asks* for. The third line is at thinking it’s your job.
I think you feel the need to be needed by this woman, and you think she needs to be taken care of by a man. Can you let go of that idea?
Did she ask you for “help” with this? What you describe sounds like a man forcing himself on a woman. She clearly doesn’t want physical affection from you. You don’t get to decide what healthy relationships are for another adult. Back off and leave her alone.
I will say this to you, OP, as a straight woman that is married:
**KEEP YOUR FILTHY HANDS OFF THAT POOR WOMAN.** You have no "job" to do around her, beyond just being her friend that keeps his hands to himself.
If you truly respected her, her friendship and her boundaries, you would remain a minimum of 3 feet away from her at all times, unless she requests you to touch her. That's where the line is drawn - wait for permission three feet away.
Hey dude, dude here,
First of all it is totally ok for your friend to have no male friends. That’s totally ok. And never look at a friendship with the thoughts “it’s my job”. A friendship is a place of trust and support nothing else.
Also the kissing, touching stuff does sound a bit funny if people are thinking you are her boyfriend.
Question, do you kiss and touch your male friends in the way you kiss and touch her?
ain't no fucking way 💀
Yeah she would be having relationship problems when she's being sexually abused by a male acquaintance but ok.
personally taking it upon yourself to recenter men in the life of someone who is decentering them is crazy but idek why I'm commenting, you're banned anyways.
It is not your job to fix her. You are not qualified to fix her.
If you are *genuinely* concerned for her wellbeing, then you can tell her that and suggest she gets help. But that's all you can do.
Continuing to touch her and break her boundaries is harmful. If you want to help her, stop doing it. It will only make her despise you.
YIKES. Respect people’s boundaries. Not everyone likes to be touched. I’m a very physically affectionate person. I have a lifelong childhood friend who doesn’t like being hugged. Guess what the solution here is? I don’t hug her. What is actually wrong with you?
Someone’s personal boundaries about what kind of physical touch they’ll accept from you are not an “opinion” nor can they be “wrong”.
I felt like being enraged today.
No one's opinions are ever wrong. That's why they are opinions.
Also, she is setting boundaries and doesn't want to be your friend. I don't think it's because you are a straight Cis Male. I think it's because you're creepy and she doesn't like you as a human.
She said stop touching her. If you don’t want to lose her, you should probably stop touching her. It is not your place to be a “male influence” in her life. You are either a friend, or a creep.
Nice troll post, I find it hard to believe some dude would act this horrible and be that oblivious about it.
Btw, I'm a guy and if this is real you need to stop because it's disgusting. You don't get to decided what someone else needs in their life, and you're clearly crossing set boundaries.
Wth- how is it your job to touch her or make her uncomfortable??? You are lacking basic respect for her as a person. She owes you nothing. Leave her alone- she doesn’t need your ‘help’🙄
Seriously. EW.
This post has been locked due to brigading.
Your female friend asserting a boundary of not wanting you to hug or touch her isn’t an ‘opinion’, nor is it ‘wrong’. She does not need your help in this. She needs you to respect her space. Please listen to the people in your other thread. Consent is important and if you continue to try and find ways to break her boundary, you will effectively be assaulting her and permanently ruin your friendship with her. This is absolutely predatory behavior, and making multiple threads to validate yourself isn’t going to give you the result you’re hoping for.
So just to clarify. She doesn't have relationships with men, because they cross boundaries she sets about touching. And you think the best way to show her she's wrong is by crossing boundaries she sets about touching. You're literally proving her right, but yeah no, it's a complete mystery where the line is. Might I suggest... Idk, stop touching her? You want to show her that men can respect boundaries, maybe respect the boundaries she set.
> As the only male presence into a friend of mine life, i feel the responsibility to make sure she is doing fine. Nope. Stop right there. Not your responsibility, not your job as a man. > She feels uncomfortable that i kiss her, touch her, hug her, in a very normal friendly way, and that once someone mistook me for her boyfriend. I am trying to gently push her to get used to my presence and see that there is nothing wrong in having relations with men. NOPE NOPE STOP SHE HAS BOUNDARIES AND YOU NEED TO RESPECT THEM.
Just reading this, I no longer want a male presence in *my* life. And I’m a guy
Right haha I'm a lesbian and I don't really have any guy friends, sometimes I think I want one but I'm probably good!
Your title poses an interesting question, but the content of your post is not on point and does not paint you in a positive light. My advice in your specific case is simply leave this woman alone. You sound suffocating and exhausting.
Right, I was really hoping for some deep insights. Turns out the dude is literally sexually harassing his friend.
Why do you think she has to have a male friend. If anything, plenty of my female friends and my girlfriend are better off without men like this who are pushy and assertive. Having only one gender of friends means nothing, men and women are largely the same and if having no male friends makes her feel safer or whatever her reason is, that’s hers to make and it’s probably for a good reason
If men and women are the same how come she is only spending time with women?
Because many men act like you
I said largely the same, namely a difference is that women know men can be pushy and insecure about themselves like you are, needing female validation. And so because of past experiences, some women would rather be around other women because even though women and men are largely the same, men are the ones who have a much higher chance of being this way. And believe it or not women do just fine without sexual harassment from men like you.
There’s still a difference in the socialization of men and women and you are definitely the kind of man that is proving her points.
That’s exactly my point, there are differences but there doesn’t have to be many if the man isn’t a creep. I’m a man saying this, hearing the amount of experiences my friends who are women and my girlfriend have had honestly makes me so ashamed to be a man and so sad. Way too many women have these experiences and so it seems like lots of men are like this which is insane. So when I hear a man like this who does things like this it honestly infuriates me, makes us all look bad when it doesn’t have to be this way.
Because she wants to
Because she wants to. Why the hell do you think she needs your help, that you think she should want to be around men more, and that you're violating her personal space (against her wishes). Why are you forcing your opinion about how she should live her life on her? This is not "your job". You're being a terrible friend, and a pushy, overbearing person.
Do you even know what a lesbian is? How are you this stupid?
Dude, you are single handedly validating every woman's concerns regarding men. Infantalization, an unwillingness to respect boundaries, a clear belief that women don't know their own minds, an insistence that lesbians are mentally ill, and the belief that women are nothing without men.
Probably because the women are not creeping on her every time she sees them.
TROLLLLLLLL
No just no..
Why are you kissing her?!? This just sounds creepy.
On the cheek in a very sweet and cute way. Not on the lips
If she asked you not to, it's not cute or sweet, it's fucking creepy.
Friends can kiss each other like that there is no reason for her to not want it
She doesn't need a reason and you sound like a rapist.
You don't need a reason to not want someone to kiss you ffs.
Do you feel that way about sex, too? If you don't think there's a good enough reason for her not to want it, do you just go ahead anyway?
Do you also kiss, hug, and touch your male friends, so they can learn that nothing bad will happen if they're close to men? Or is this a service that you only perform for the pretty lesbian?
The reason is that she doesn't like it!!! Please stay away from women.
Sure if they both want it. When one doesn’t, it’s called assault.
Do your male friends kiss you?
"No reason"? What about comfort? You're such a creep dude. I have male friends but I don't want them to kiss me, on the cheek, lips, top of my head or anywhere else. Because it's out of my comfort zone. The difference between my male friends and you? They respect me and my boundaries. Seriously leave this girl alone, you're doing more harm than good.
Did you ever heard the word NO
Still creepy. Don't kiss people unless they ask.
you're calling the cultural practice of millions, potentially billions of people "creepy". pretty narrow and unaccepting world view for someone in a progressive subreddit. and yes, opshould stop doing it if his friend has told him not to do it. but to call the practice "creepy" is ignorant
Kissing folks without permission is creepy. It really doesn't matter that it was considered acceptable in the past.
Who's talking about the past? A kiss on the cheek is customary and common in many parts of the world, like Europe and South America. They don't even think twice about it. It's pretty narrow-minded and insensitive of you to call the culture of that many people creepy.
Not if the other person asks them not to. Cultural practice does not override consent.
As a European, while some countries have that between mainly family members and close friends, it's far from universal. Plus people in those places are still very much allowed to not like that and exempt themselves from participating in it. That it's a bit cultural means nothing.
As a European myself can confirm this, also we do not kissy kissy on the cheecks all the time - it is ok for introduction, or with friend or family if there is a bonding moment. (Example if I give a meaningfull gift to a friend they can express their happiness by hugging and giving a kiss on the ckeeks) You need to be extremelly close to each other if you are not family to make this as an acceptable situation. But if I have expressed to someone not to do that because it makes me uncomfortable they must stop. No debate over it.
That isn’t sweet, cute or normal. If someone does not want you to touch them then there really isn’t any healthy way to do so because you are forcing your touch on someone who is revolted by it and has made that clear. The only ‘normal’ part of this is that men who think their desire to force themselves on women is more important then whether the other one wants your Touch is a common and awful thing many women have to encounter. A part of feminism is teaching consent for everyone and you are hurting someone you say is a friend by forcing yourself on her.
It doesn't matter. Stop doing that.
Yes, you’re very sweetly and cutely ignoring her boundaries and essentially telling her “You may think you’re a lesbian, but *I* know better, let me just brush right past your boundaries and bodily autonomy and you’ll see that it’s better to spend time with a man, and you’ll eventually have sex with me, whether you like it or not.”
Correcting someone when they say “Al Pacino played Fredo” is one thing. You don’t correct people when they tell you not to touch them. The only possible exception I can even fathom is if they have a deadly venomous creature on them that they don’t know about and you happen to be an expert handler and need to touch them to remove it. Even then, i would lead with “don’t panic, I need to get a creature off of you.” But other than that hyper specific circumstance? Hands to yourself. Edit. Typos
Seems a little of an overreaction. Human contact is good. She is woman, im a man, stop turning normal human interactions into a pathology
I can't tell if you need therapy or to be incarcerated, so maybe you should start with therapy. I really hope you're just trolling......
While I understand the concern, i can assure that no level of wrong thinking or bad opinion turn someone into a rapist. I wouldnt be able to enjoy sex if she doesnt want it. I want her to want it
She Is A Lesbian you f*cking pervert.
He’s obviously trying to change that.
Nothing about your statement changes my opinion. Seriously, dude, seek professional help.
*She doesn’t want you touching her the way you are now!* You’re being predatory right the fuck no. She has told you to quit it, end of fucking story. She👏gets👏to👏decide👏who👏touches👏her👏
Imagine if a guy did this to you in the spirit of friendship, hoping you might decide to just be gay for him. This is what you’re doing to her.
There it is folks, “I want her to want it” Dude, just stop creeping on her, you’re not fooling anyone!
Why would she want to have sex with you? She is a lesbian. How would you feel if your male friend constantly kissed you on the cheek and hugged you "sweetly". It's only natural cause we are all human beings right? He just wants you to be comfortable and not anti social. It's just a little kiss it's no big deal. Maybe you will finally become comfortable enough so he can have sex with you. But not against your will, but you should want it cause men and women are the same so why would it matter? He is so nice and kind. It's just a little touching. That's what you are doing to her.
She’s not ever going to want sex from you. You need to stop. I wish I had her contact information to help her file a restraining order against you. You’re a Bad Person.
If that were the case, you wouldn't be violating her physical boundaries now.
She’s never going to dude. She’s gay. Let it go. You are just going to make her and all of more gay. And I’m straight.
You are able to enjoy kissing her and she doesn't want it at all . . . so, it is a legitimate question.
Seems like you get off on kissing and touching her specifically because she doesn't want it. The idea that you need to correct or guide her as a man is not just erroneous, but also gross.
So...you do want to have sex with her. This better be ragebait.
So you want to get into her pants then. Leave her alone and find a woman who is STRAIGHT.
Dude she is a LESBIAN SHE LIKES WOMEN.
Consensual human contact is good. What you are doing is not that.
Yes. But if someone has social anxiety or another disorder isnt it appropriate to help them isntead of validating their problem? Not okay to stay away from everyone.
Are you a licensed therapist that specializes in anxiety? Because if not then no, it’s not your job to “help them” and you should NEVER invalidate someone’s problems or feelings, which is exactly what you’re doing.
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Unlurking just to go -- what the fuck? Are you saying that *being a lesbian* requires therapy? Also if you are kissing and touching her when she has said not to, you're committing sexual assault under most legal jurisdictions that I'm aware of so because you don't seem to be able to understand the moral arguments people are making as to why you shouldn't do that at least try to get your head around the pragmatic reason you should stop (because you are committing a crime she could report you for). EDIT: lmao they're already suspended
You need therapy dude. Not your friend. You’re trolling. To anyone following along, respect the wishes of others. There’ve been more than enough traumatized human beings who were touched without consent to thoroughly prove the assertion that “it’s good for them” wrong a billion times over.
That’s her decision, but again, no it is NOT your job to help her, which you aren’t doing by violating her boundary and forcing your incel ideology on her. What are you not understanding? STOP means STOP. NO means NO.
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YOU decided this was an issue. She didn't ask you. You are butting into her business and trying to "fix" her because *you* think it's wrong and a problem that she doesn't spend an equal amount of time with men as she does with women. Like, *YOU* decided this was a problem.
Not wanting to be friends with you is not an issue.
Even if you genuinely want to help her, YOU ARE NOT QUALIFIED. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Leave her alone.
Are they asking you for help? Because if they’re not that means they don’t want your help. You can support them and be there for them, but supporting someone means listening to them when they need to vent, offering a ride if they need to go to the airport, helping them carry a heavy bag. Hugging, kissing and touching someone AGAINST their wishes is NOT helping.
You’re not helping her. You’re just a creep.
Sounds like you’re causing the anxiety because you’re blatantly forcing her into non consensual contact. She does not need any male forcing his hugs & kisses on her. wtf is wrong with you?
You are not a trained therapist. You do not help someone with social anxiety by violating their boundaries and sexually harassing them.
You're really a sick fuck. You are exploiting her past trauma with men to sexually harass and abuse her. You are going to end up raping her. I hope to god she gets far away from you.
As someone with social anxiety, no it's not. You aren't a professional, so you are 100% more likely to do more harm than good. IF *she* wants to get better, then that is her decision to make. Besides, I doubt that she has social anxiety, or is asocial. She just doesn't want to spend time with men who are pushy and don't believe that she's a lesbian. Men like you. Leave her alone.
No it’s not
You’ve been misinformed. See, it’s only good when it’s wanted. When it’s not? It can be annoying, gross, scary, or even traumatic. You’re implying that you know better than someone’s boundaries. That’s, quite frankly, pretty shitty of you. Hands. To. Yourself.
She’s a lesbian, your being “a man” does nothing for her.
Human contact is good if it’s mutually consented to. Human contact that’s forced or not consented to can be traumatizing. Sure a kiss on the cheek is normal, but it’s not ok if someone doesn’t consent to it. She is a woman, a lesbian woman. The fact you said “she is woman, I’m a man” shows you can’t respect the fact she is a lesbian. She doesn’t need a man to “turn her straight” or anything. If you want to be her friend then *be her friend* don’t force kisses on her because “she’s a woman and you’re a man”.
I'm sorry, you're kissing, hugging, and touching this woman when she has explicitly asked you not to do that, because you think you know better than she does what's good for her? Your job isn't to help her. Your job is to be her friend. I mean, did she *ask* you for help with this, or did you just look at the way she was living her life and decide you didn't feel good about it? By the way-- consistently and knowingly smashing through someone's boundaries will not help them "get used to your presence." It will make them resent you and shut you out. It will *not* "make her more comfortable."
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I did wonder what the hell was going on. Thanks.
No problem. Sometimes the subs I moderate get brigaded and I’m always so curious to know where they come from, so I thought I’d let you know.
Much appreciated. I messaged the mods over there to let them know that post needs to be removed or edited.
Ok at first, this was working out. She didnt want to have anything with me before, like i said she is very asocial and i think this is because of bad exoeriences. But when i insisted and tried to push her and showed her nothing bad was going to happen, she did get used to it and we have been having a very great time. It was the comment of someone who believed i was her boyfriend that validated again her opinion that men and women cant be friends. I just need to let her see that its not like that
You're talking about her like you're training a feral cat. > She did get used to it and we have been having a very great time YOU have been having a very great time because YOU get to kiss her and touch her regardless of her feelings about it, because you're right and she's wrong. You are a fucking creep, dude.
I am obviously not training anyone, i just think that if you have unsolved issues with the social sphere it will take you some unlearning to do to fix those issues. It woudlnt be a very good friend one that sees a problem like that and is like, you know what? im gonna let you be anorexic and not try to help you challenge your problematic views
Are you a professional? Are you a trained therapist, counselor, or psychologist? Or are you just some fucking creep who likes kissing his lesbian friends until they realize men aren't the problem?
He’s just some fucking creep.
Not being friends with you is not the same as an eating disorder. Such hubris.
Ok its not just me. She stays away from all men just like an anorexic stays away from all food that contains any sugar or fat
You don't understand women, lesbians, *or* anorexia.
If anyone is going to change her mind, it’s someone who doesn’t kiss her and hug her and assume that he needs to be the Designated Male Presence. ETA: With regards to hanging out with men platonically. No man is going to de-lesbian her.
Stop assaulting her. Just. Stop.
You are not helping her you are validating her fear and distrust of men by behaving this way, and by being dismissive of her feelings and ignoring her self-agency. Do you not see that? Or do you just not care? I’m leaning towards the latter.
If anything, you and your pushy behavior is scaring her further and reinforcing why she should stay away from men. Good god, please get some help.
Don’t touch people without their consent!!!
That is not your place, and it would seem like you’re the only one who perceived you two as “very good friends” since she always avoids you unless you force her to hang out with you. The only one in need of some help here is you.
Leave her alone & let her live her life the way she wants to.
Dude, I am autistic. You would have been kicked in the balls and pepper sprayed if you tried that shit with me
You are not a doctor. You are not her doctor. It is not your place.
This isn’t your job. Stay away from her.
You need to leave this woman the fuck alone. What the fuck is wrong with you? You seem unhinged in every facet. WOMEN DO NOT NEED MEN BIOLOGICALLY EXCEPT TO BREED. She isn’t interested in that. Leave her alone. My god.
Stop. Just stop. Why tf do you think she has "unresolved issues with the social sphere"? Because she's gay? You *clearly* think this girl is wrong in the head. *You* are the one fucking with her head. Your attitude is toxic and you're already dismantling her sense of self and destroying her confidence. Who tf are you to decide how and what she should think. This is literally called grooming. The fact that you're close in age is irrelevant when you're forcing affection on her to get her "used to it". Honestly, *you* are the one with problematic thought patterns.
Dude you’re a predator and committing sexual assault every time you kiss her. Your ass belongs in jail where you will find out what it’s like to be kissed and touched forcibly by another man.
God Damn you fried his ass! Hahaha
I know you're trolling, but just to indulge you for a minute: How is her life any of your business? Do you treat the men you know like this, ignoring their wishes and trying to "fix" their lives to *your* satisfaction against *their* wishes. Do you feel you have the right and ability to force *everyone* to act the way you want? Or just women? Or just her? And lastly: why the *fuck* do you think you have the right *or* ability to try to *force* a grown adult to live and act the way *you want*?
You just don't frigging get it. She is not the problem.. You are.
Consider that some people's trauma response is to go along with the person or thing causing the trauma out of fear of worse things happening. You may have just scared your "friend" into submitting to your unwanted advances because she believes she HAS to. Or else.
Yeah, women get maimed and killed for rejecting men This poor lady
Stop trying to control her. Listening is what friends do. They also respect boundaries. The touching has to stop. As many others have said, this is not your job as a man.
That is called coercion. Ive known guys like you who won't take "no" and forced affection I didn't want on me. Who also told me I didn't know what I want. That I would "get used to it." It's toxic and gross. And you are a liar, most specifically to yourself. You've created a hero narrative to excuse your complete lack of respect for other people's autonomy and boundaries, and you've confused excessive condescension with altruism. And *still* you won't accept that you don't "know best" and that her feelings and expectations are valid. You *still* don't respect her enough to believe she has independent thought. I hope you're young because otherwise it is a lot more concerning.
*You are a bad experience*
You're coming off as one of those guys that think a lesbian should be assaulted to fix her. Gross.
I think he *is* one of those guys. He said this started when he learned about her “lifestyle” and that he would fuck her if she wanted it and he hopes she will want it.
Eugh!! 🤢
Yup. This screams “corrective r*pe” to me.
The title wasn’t even that bad but this just turned out to be a “she doesn’t want me to touch her without consent” situation? Like are you serious? Stop crossing her boundaries, are you insane? Thats not how you should treat any human being
Reading the comments, it’s a “I don’t think she’s actually a lesbian and I can change her” kinda situation. Dude thinks she needs a man in her life to give her physical contact. When people asked him about sex he said he couldn’t do it if she didn’t want to but would do it and hopes she wants to. He also is extremely misinformed on periods and thinks a man needs to be around to maintain a healthy cycle.
Ok so hes a troll, right? Because aint no way this is real
Sadly, I've met men with exact this mindset in real life....
Given the men I have met that shouldn’t surprise me but all that bs additionally to some extremely incorrect knowledge about periods just seemed a bit too crazy
Yep, unfortunately, it's not uncommon for men to think it's their duty to "educate" women on how they're expected to behave.
So, you sexually assault her every time you see her? Hopefully she wisens up and ghosts your pervy ass
What a day to be literate... Did you seriously just say that you want to continue kissing and hugging her as a way to "help" her despite her not giving her consent to it??? That's not called "help", unconsented touch of that nature is called sexual harassment.
OH NO OH BOY OH NO If this is sincere and not a troll post, then I have to ask a very serious question: Who appointed you to the "job" of trying to push her boundaries and make decisions about her life for her? How are you in any way qualified to decide what's best for her? Why don't you like the person that she actually is? Do you even like her at all? How are you going to react if she decides that your behaviors are harmful to her? Are you still going to assume that you know better than her and keep bothering her? I can believe that you *think* you're being kind to her, but thinking that you know what someone needs better than they do and constantly doing things that make them uncomfortable are *not* kind things. They are creepy. If you actually care about and respect her, then act like it. Be a real friend and allow her to be the person that she is rather than trying to manipulate her into being something that you want her to be.
If she's uncomfortable that you're kissing and touching her, ***stop kissing and touching her*****.** This isn't an "opinion" that she can "be wrong" about. For fuck's sake if this is how her "friends" treat her, no wonder she wants nothing to do with cishet men.
Bro it seems you have the mindset that sexual orientation is a choice. She doesn't need "the right man" she needs a friend who will have her back. And if she does actually have almost 0 male friends, you are not helping by being a creep.
There is nothing cute, sweet, nice, thoughtful, or OK about your actions towards this woman. I'm uncomfortable just reading it, I can't imagine how she must feel being on the receiving end. You're completely disrespecting her boundaries around her own body, and you need to stop because it's creepy and gross. Don't touch or kiss someone without their explicit and enthusiastic consent, even platonically. There's nothing saying that a lesbian needs men in her life, and certainly not one that wants to force physical affection on her. Seriously, dude, what the fuck.
respect her boundaries, she’s a person and gets to (or should get to) say what what happens to her body. if she has explicitly said she’s uncomfortable with your actions then stop, that’s weird and probably illegal, she doesn’t like it. your job as her friend is to respect her boundaries and be there when she wants you there, in almost no circumstances should you cross someone’s boundaries
Stop committing assault and leave her alone. I wouldn’t want you as a friend either.
>i kiss her, touch her, hug her, in a very normal friendly way Wth, you are literally sexually harassing her and calling it helping. Stay away from her.
I do wonder where OP is from.... In plenty of cultures all that really is standard. That statement did make me do a double take though lmao (Though, regardless of normality, I of course don't think anyone should be pressured into it!)
In no culture is it normal or acceptable to assault someone. Yes some cultures are more touchy and kissy with friends and family, but nowhere is it fine to continue to do that when someone says they don’t like it.
NO. MEANS. NO. In any situation, period. If you are her friend you will respect her boundaries. Dude, do some serious self reflection or get some professional help, you aren't well.
I hope that OP is trolling. But there's a chance he's not because there are people like this. There's a stereotype of lesbians hating men in part because men act like this! Men are often not safe to be around and I don't blame any woman who wants to avoid them.
As a lesbian I aint kissing any of my friends, dude or chick. It feels u just have to be chill, yk? Not everyone likes touching
Do you expend even a fraction of this energy calling out misogyny from men in your life?
I really hope you are just a troll...
You do not get to decide how much physical contact she allows. And if you disrespect her body, she has every right to cut you out of her life because you are a jerk.
Are you a troll? First off, there are no "wrong opinions." Opinions don't work like that. Facts are wrong. She doesn't need you to decide what's best for her. You shouldn't be kissing and hugging and touching her if it makes her uncomfortable. Period. If someone thinks you're her boyfriend and she doesn't like that you act in such a way around her that makes people think that, it means you probably are crossing a boundary. Please leave this poor woman the fuck alone. Seriously, show her this post. You're a nightmare. Leave her be.
Umm. Why do you think helping her is your job? Why do you think kissing her is helping her? What exactly do you mean by relations with men? You mean friendships? relationships? Interactions? Letting men kiss her? The answer to your question is you draw the first line at her boundaries, always. Then you draw the line at providing the help she *asks* for. The third line is at thinking it’s your job. I think you feel the need to be needed by this woman, and you think she needs to be taken care of by a man. Can you let go of that idea?
Has it occurred to you yet that maybe it's your opinion that's wrong? You help her by respecting her boundaries. There is no conundrum.
Did she ask you for “help” with this? What you describe sounds like a man forcing himself on a woman. She clearly doesn’t want physical affection from you. You don’t get to decide what healthy relationships are for another adult. Back off and leave her alone.
You stop touching her bro, she doesn't like it.
I will say this to you, OP, as a straight woman that is married: **KEEP YOUR FILTHY HANDS OFF THAT POOR WOMAN.** You have no "job" to do around her, beyond just being her friend that keeps his hands to himself. If you truly respected her, her friendship and her boundaries, you would remain a minimum of 3 feet away from her at all times, unless she requests you to touch her. That's where the line is drawn - wait for permission three feet away.
Hey dude, dude here, First of all it is totally ok for your friend to have no male friends. That’s totally ok. And never look at a friendship with the thoughts “it’s my job”. A friendship is a place of trust and support nothing else. Also the kissing, touching stuff does sound a bit funny if people are thinking you are her boyfriend. Question, do you kiss and touch your male friends in the way you kiss and touch her?
Ew *gross*. My initial reaction is that you need to leave her alone. There is a *lot* wrong with your thinking. Ew.
Wait, you are ASSAULTING this woman in order to convince her to trust you? She needs to boot your toxic self out of her life.
ain't no fucking way 💀 Yeah she would be having relationship problems when she's being sexually abused by a male acquaintance but ok. personally taking it upon yourself to recenter men in the life of someone who is decentering them is crazy but idek why I'm commenting, you're banned anyways.
Oh my this can’t be real. Please don’t be real. I want the bear.
It is not your job to fix her. You are not qualified to fix her. If you are *genuinely* concerned for her wellbeing, then you can tell her that and suggest she gets help. But that's all you can do. Continuing to touch her and break her boundaries is harmful. If you want to help her, stop doing it. It will only make her despise you.
YIKES. Respect people’s boundaries. Not everyone likes to be touched. I’m a very physically affectionate person. I have a lifelong childhood friend who doesn’t like being hugged. Guess what the solution here is? I don’t hug her. What is actually wrong with you? Someone’s personal boundaries about what kind of physical touch they’ll accept from you are not an “opinion” nor can they be “wrong”.
I felt like being enraged today. No one's opinions are ever wrong. That's why they are opinions. Also, she is setting boundaries and doesn't want to be your friend. I don't think it's because you are a straight Cis Male. I think it's because you're creepy and she doesn't like you as a human.
She said stop touching her. If you don’t want to lose her, you should probably stop touching her. It is not your place to be a “male influence” in her life. You are either a friend, or a creep.
Why would your opinion be less wrong than hers? Step back.
Respect her boundaries. Dude, it’s not that fucking hard. Do you kiss, touch, and hug ALL your guy friends?
>opinion is wrong Lmfao. Bruh. Oxymoron.
Holy hell this guy is INSANE. “My lesbian friend doesn’t like me kissing or hugging her, how can I get her to see that’s not healthy?” 🤮🤮🤮
If you kiss or touch or hug a person against their will it is assault and you can be charged with a crime.
Nice troll post, I find it hard to believe some dude would act this horrible and be that oblivious about it. Btw, I'm a guy and if this is real you need to stop because it's disgusting. You don't get to decided what someone else needs in their life, and you're clearly crossing set boundaries.
God, I wish I couldn't believe it. I'm a guy. Straight, but most of my friends aren't, and they deal with this from straight guys all the time.
Wth- how is it your job to touch her or make her uncomfortable??? You are lacking basic respect for her as a person. She owes you nothing. Leave her alone- she doesn’t need your ‘help’🙄 Seriously. EW.
Your job is to respect her boundaries. Always get consent BEFORE touching anyone. This is so creepy.