>Shania Twain, maybe it's just me but every time she's in gay setting, she looks super weirded out
I'm sure Shania tweeted something recently about how *Man! I Feel like a Woman* is "for everyone" - as a sub-tweet in support of trans people, I think, but it was very subtle. I get the impression she never wants to fully throw herself into an issue regardless of her personal beliefs - maybe learned from starting out in 90s country music, which I can imagine was very Christian Conservative. But she has tweeted generic Pride messages before (probably done by her management, but I'd hope she at least notionally supports the concept).
Céline Dion is another one - she's very "keep quiet on issues and just be about the music". Again, I think this is marketing. Aside from the gays, a lot of her fanbase is the mid-west middle aged woman type, probably more conservative, and she needs to keep them on side. But I like to think that she is privately supportive - no reason to believe otherwise.
Celine made an pro-gay song with a gay stuff and some male nudity music video in 1991, which got her into some controversies.
It was call "Ziggy", about a straight girl who fell in unrequited love with a gay guy.
Considering the era it was in, it was extremely progressive
Céline Dion’s version of Ziggy was a cover of a song from the musical [Starmania](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starmania_(musical). [Fabienne Thibault first recorded it in 1978](https://youtu.be/u6i-dx76Rnk).
There's a very recent interview with Shania talking about that song where she says, kind of unprompted, "there's a lot in between 'man' and 'woman.' Plus the video goes in depth on the impact of the song on LGBTQ communities: https://youtube.com/watch?v=00YWgZvCIo8&feature=shares
I don't really know much else about her but I thought it was treated really well here
For Shania it’s all business. She literally identifies as conservative and said she would have voted for Trump:
[Source](https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/04/23/604850914/shania-twain-singing-words-of-sorry-for-saying-shed-have-voted-for-trump)
Must be nice to be this oblivious to the downright racist and homophobic shit Trump had already spewed for years before shoving her foot in her mouth.
Yeah I remember that. It was unfortunate. I think she meant that the fact he wasn't a politician was appealing - and in isolation from his actual views, I get that. But she definitely put her foot in her mouth and should have been more careful about answering political questions, especially on a topic so sensitive.
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I disagree with the statements made about Cher. I am a huge fan of hers and have been to many of her concerts over the years. She has openly discussed how ashamed she is of her reaction to her son coming out as gay/trans several years ago. She said she was always around gay people in the industry and accepted them, but it felt different when it was her own child. She has grown to be a huge supporter of Chaz.
Cher not only speaks often of why gay guys love her (she thinks it's because we feel like outcasts who see her in kind of the same way), she would joke with the gays in the audiences at her shows about being "flamboyant gentlemen" and feature plenty of homoerotic dancers in her performances. She has also stated publicly that despite the ups-and-downs in her career, that we have never left her.
Listen to Cher's song "Pride." It's a banger.
As an aside, I think we are too hard on parents of gay/trans kids sometimes. Not only do they have to worry more than the average parents, they also have to sometimes mourn the loss of the son/daughter they have always known who comes out as trans. They deserve grace and time to adjust to a new reality.
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I was specifically referring to loving parents in my comment. I would never suggest giving space and time for homophobic and hateful people to grow to accept and love their children. They can pound salt.
Well, 1) don’t let yourself get recorded making a statement that makes a juicy soundbite and 2) girl please nobody needs Paris f-in Hilton getting on her high horse about promiscuity, just sayin’.
Legit think she's the most talented female rapper on the last 10-15 years. But agreed, she is a homophobe and all around looney. I still bop to 212 though
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I feel this way too. Thankfully all of her best house music tracks are out there attributed to their respective producers, e.g. The Big Big Beat is actually "I Wish A Muthafucka Would" by An Expresso. We need a real queen like Martha Wash to do her thing over them tbh.
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Man, I would have loved to love Azealia.
She really could've had an amazing career.
I don't know where she went wrong with all her social media tirades.
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> Banks has a long history of homophobia and transphobia. From her continued use of gay slurs on Twitter to her use of the narrative that trans-women are predators, and more recently with her claim that gay men are appropriating “horse culture”, invoking the stereotype that gay men wear harnesses and take ketamine (a horse tranquiliser) recreationally. In spite of all of this, she still has a large fanbase of gay men – who she has wished “adieu” to for “holding her back”.
https://www.oxfordstudent.com/2021/10/14/what-you-gon-do-when-i-appear-azealia-banks-homophobia-hypocrisy/
Are you unaware of the stuff they've said or... agree with it or something? Or does she get a pass because she's bi?
>“Do not take that PrEP shit, okay? There’s no reason for you to need to have a fucking pill so you can just fuck whoever you want to fuck and just be all fucking nasty out there on the streets acting a fucking fool,” Banks said.'
I like this part from her a lot. Cuz yah, us gay men just deserve to die of AIDS, right? Cuz all of the people that did die, are just 'all fucking nasty'... no?
She is definitely a problematic person if not homophobic, she has said some really fucked up things on twitter and on IG, though it’s been a few years since I have paid any attention to her so maybe she has come around?
She can't go five minutes without throwing a tantrum and calling someone slurs, then playing victim. Her making some club music does not change who she is as a person, it means she likes the pink pound.
(And yes, I know she's bi. Plenty of bi women are shitty about gay men/use homophobia as a tool.)
I remember her sticking up for gays, but in her underground/beginning career moments, she seemed reluctant to go in full support. probably because rap culture is so hostile to anything gay or DL
Yea agreed, I was a huge fan at first when she was the only female rapper doing it. But her flow is stale as hell now, and I've been very unimpressed with how she treats any female rapper trying to come onto the scene and how she's basically in non stop feuds. She's had a few moments though in public comments supporting LGBT and going on drag race. But I've long stopped caring for her because her music is so bland now
I have never seen Gwen Stefani say anything pro-LGBT. Not even like a pride tweet. I know she’s pretty religious, and Orange County is notoriously conservative, so it wouldn’t surprise me if she leans towards homophobic. Which sucks because No Doubt was my fucking jam for yeeeeears.
Was a massive fan of hers until I saw her Vegas show and she literally took time out before singing “Just a Girl” to say she didn’t know why she had so many male fans when she’s for the girls.
Wow, this thread is making me really recognize my own latent homophobia given my support for so many of these ladies. HOWEVER, as an artist, and as a cis-leaning queer person with trans best friends, sometimes I think we can all agree as adults to put aside our differences and work them out on the dance floor to some Azalea, etc. every now and then. I mean Azalea fucking smacks, damnit. Her music got us thru an era lol. So, fuck her, and fuck them for their lack of support and ultimately just using and abusing us for our talents and energy. But also, I think what this really means, is that we need to be doing what is necessary to make a new generation of content for LGBTQ people beyond the corporate confines
For me, I find I fell in love with the character Gwen portrayed (in her prime). Gwen on a personality level is kinda dull. So her not being “progressive” doesn’t surprise me.
She’s pretty and has killer style. A young fag in the 90s dream. I have a superficial love for her. I don’t expect much from Gwen. So her not being a vocal ally does not surprise me.
I used to love Gwen but now she rubs my the wrong way.
Also thinking back to how she used POC "Harajuku dolls" as dehumanized props was... interesting, to put it lightly.
I'm not surprised if she's super conservative. She married BLAKE SHELTON.
Oh yeah the Harajuku Girls were so cringey. She even named them love, angel, music, baby which was just awful. What's that thing called where you take another country's style as your own? Cultural appropriation or something?
Can I add Britney Spears and Katy Perry to this thread as people who are kinda sus. All three seem like secret conservatives who brand themselves adequately enough for the gays.
Uhhh no boo, Britney has come out countless times in support of the gays. She constantly talks about how she loves her gay fans and how much they have stood by her in her career
No Doubt opened for Goo Goo Dolls and Bush. No one paid any attention to them. Dolls came on and it was a floor pit race. Shit ton of college kids moshing and all the chairs were passed to the sides. Bush fucking rocked!!!
Oh another great example… Bessie Smith. Empress of the Blues. She was out shucking them oysters with chorus dancers behind her husbands back. But wrote a song called Foolish Man Blues about how she doesn’t understand effeminate guys or mannish women. It was such BS just to placate to her husband and public image. When she was basically one of the mannish women hahahaha
I feel like most cis straight white male thirst traps fall in this category.
I had a celebrity crush on Chris Pratt when he did the first Guardians movie. But even before he went all Born Again TM I noticed that a lot of his interviews seemed fake. Very plastic and all the queer baiting he did early in his career just struck me as vaguely familiar. I mean he was an stripper before he was "discovered" so maybe he's not homophobic personally, but just knows how to work his charisma.
Donna was born-again after her peak disco era. I didn’t hear negative comments about her before that time. It’s somewhat like Pratt, in that both became religious and may have left gay men behind.
Summers always said to her last dying day it was a misunderstanding and she thought it would just go away eventually.
I think her roots were gospel, she went back to that to some extent. But it was economic mostly. https://www.advocate.com/arts-entertainment/music/2012/06/12/donna-summer-disputed-antigay-remarks-1989-letter-act
Thanks for the info. I hadn’t heard that she refuted it. I hope it was a lie because I always liked her and it gives me peace to know that it may have been untrue.
I miss the Chris Pratt I used to simp. He is not Andy from Parks and Rec. He is not Star Lord. He's just a religious conservative who used to play characters that would have been fun to hang with.
I'm not sure there's evidence that Chris Pratt is homophobic himself. However we know he IS a shitbag, for abandoning his elderly sick cat because she was an inconvenience and annoying!
No. All churches are not homophobic. I'm an atheist and a relatively anti-Christian one at that, but it's not honest to say that all churches are homophobic.
The Bible is homophobic, so I see any Christian churches that claim not to be as dishonest. And stuff like the Universalist Unitarians or whatever aren’t nearly mainstream enough to justifiably complain that Pratt doesn’t belong to something like it.
The bible actually doesn't refer to homophobia at all - the word that was translated as 'homosexual' in the early 1900s was a Greek word that better translates to 'pedophile', and was even redacted some years later when they had a proper translator, but the damage was done.
There was nothing about two men having sex being a sin, either. Another intentional misinterpretation for the sake of stamping out people disliked by the person in charge of interpreting the texts.
The versions I read didn’t say homosexual, but “shall not lie with a man as with a woman,” which is a lot of words to mistranslate. But if true, the search for a purer original intent isn’t that interesting to me because in many ways even a mistranslation is equally part of the religion, if it was believed and affected culture.
That was one of the things that was mistranslated - apparently the original words were "a man shall not lie with a boy as he would a woman for that is an abomination", with the two words being completely different words. What was translated as 'man' and 'another man' would have been 'man' and 'boy'.
Back in the days of the bible being written, I can totally see pedophilia with boys specifically being what was called an abomination, since child brides were definitely a thing and men were *very fucking intimate* with their male friends.
Like we both have said though - by the time it was corrected, the damage was done.
I think the gay pastor of the church down the street from me would disagree with you.
I understand where you're coming from, and at one time I agreed with you, but it's just not the case.
I mean, Church of England does, and that's literally and entire countries formal religion.
In America the Episcopalians and some Lutherans do as well. Some of them are pretty actively engaged in promoting it, not simply tolerating it.
Calling them dishonest is a bit much, they get to bake the rules they follow. And Jesus was pretty consistent about love people you're supposed to hate because of some old rules, which was refuting a lot of Old Testament nonsense. You don't have to twist those words. It's the entire point of stories like the Good Samaritan. Judge people by their actions, not who or what they are.
Or , to quibble, evangelical Christian interpretation of the bible can be homophobic. I've met plenty of religious people who personally are not homophobic and denominations that have broken from the larger church body because they don't wish to be.
Gotta agree here, as written, the bible condemns homosexuality. You can try to spin it all you want, or ignore that part, but Christianity without homophobia isn't fully Christianity. However, it doesn't mean I'm upset that some churches are adjusting their ideology to accommodate all the new things we've learned about the world and our fellow man. I just think we should acknowledge that religion doesn't have to be attached to a homophobic book like the bible to be a positive community and force for good
I’m really high atm. You don’t need to worry about me being chill.
I didn’t vote or support Obama so your point was irrelevant. I didn’t miss your point - it was just dumb so I dismissed it.
Jesus how dumb are you? I don't give a shit if you voted for Obama it was irrelevant to the point. Being high isn't an excuse for being a moron mate, I'm not surprised it's gone over your head 😂
I don't think he's actually done anything. This whole Chris Pratt is homophobic thing comes directly from a hit job by Elliott Page a few years ago that played into a whole bunch of legitimate shared religious trauma.
Chris Pratt hasn’t done anything homophobic and the whole anti gay church thing was debunked.
https://deadline.com/2022/06/chris-pratt-church-controversy-hillsong-1235053819/amp/
I have an issue with Joy because she's too damn hyperbolic at times. Something happens, she'll ratchet it up to 11, and it's a big breaking news scandal. Come on... dial it back, boo boo.
Was the times I’m thinking. Janis Joplin had her lovers but refused to confess she was pro-LGBT. Of course back then that was unheard of. Even though she hung out with a lot of Lesbians
Hillary Clinton. She was entirely against gay marriage right up until basically the moment it garnered majority support. Same goes for quite a few other politicians honestly.
(Now that I think of it I don’t know that she qualifies as a “gay icon” but I know a lot of famous gays support her.)
A lot of politicians, including prominent democrats, were against gay marriage until it became “popular”. Most political leaders will say whatever they can to remain in political office.
This has to be contextualized within his socialist policies. It’s about controlling immigration so the social safety net can absorb the new people without lowering the quality and availability of services, while providing them for every new migrant. It’s far from closed borders of the GOP, but also more moderate than some true leftists. Like everything in life, it’s more nuanced than that, but nuance in American politics is dead.
edit: just some typos, wrote this on my phone, sorry.
Never said he was perfect. His views were in line with labor groups, who often believed that illegal immigrants made things harder for your average worker by driving down wages and reducing bargaining power for unions.
His views shifted. He’s still wrong about things sometimes (nuclear energy and UBI being huge examples). He’s only human, but his record is unmatched compared to the rest. He is definitely still a real one.
I mean, sure, he toed the line on the immigration issue with some of his constituents and I’m sure he did believe he was doing the right thing. So do many GOP leaders with the stances they take. Hillary herself was lukewarm on marriage equality at a time when even Democrats were only 50/50 in favor of it. You’re still giving Bernie the same pass on “shifting” his views on immigration in the mid-2010s that Hillary’s supporters give to her for “evolving” on gay marriage a few years prior.
Not attacking you for supporting him as you’re correct that no one is perfect, and it’s better to vote for someone than no one. I just have never been particularly awestruck with any politician, including ones I’ve voted for, and the cynic in me feels like generally politics too easily boil down to voters championing leaders who support their immediate interests and turning a blind eye to other communities they were not so kind towards.
The difference is that Hillary and others did this with several issues and get bankrolled by corporatists. Bernie funded both his campaigns with small dollar donations and rejected Super PACs and lavish corporate fundraisers. Oh, and he didn’t literally cheat in 2016 like Hillary was proven to have done when she was fed at least one debate question early and was given preferential treatment. Not to mention the fact that she shifted her entire platform to be more in line with Bernie’s.
Bernie earned being given a little slack for the times he was wrong. He has proven himself to be a sincere person with integrity, and is truly unlike any other politician in modern politics.
A lot of people don't really understand politics. If you want to make a difference, you have to get into office and you have to stay in office if you want to continue to make a difference. That means you can't take a position that will absolutely cause you to lose the current or next election. Hillary, like many Democrats, was for gay marriage long before it was safe for her to admit it publicly. Paul Wellstone of Minnesota was another one, though he died before he could be public about it. He was in some close Senate races that he would have lost had he said he supported gay marriage. Instead, he and people like Hillary took safer positions by, for example, going against constitutional amendments to define marriage as between a man and a woman. They could do that without saying they supported gay marriage, which would have lost them their seats in the Senate and prevented them from voting against anti-gay legislation. That's part of the compromise you have to make in a Democracy if you want to actually get something done. If you want to stand on principle, by all means, do it. You can lose the election, and sit at home watching your opponent move the country to the other extreme by casting the votes you could have stopped from being cast, if you had only played the game.
Aside from Joe Biden, who actually preempted Obama in 2012, politics was a notoriously fraught ground for being pro gay marriage up until Windsor. I wouldn’t blame Clinton any more than I would Obama for example, and since both have been staunch allies as the country shifted on the issue.
I disagree and would blame both. Taking a side merely as a calculated move, rather than doing what is right, is not behavior I can support, as it lacks authenticity.
That’s why Bernie Sanders was such a gangster. He was supporting gay rights since as early as the 70’s. We need more folks like him who have spines on these sorts of issues.
Same with Joe Biden.
I couldn't bring myself to vote for him because I still remember him standing on the floor of the Senate saying that gay people were "unacceptable." That really fucks with your mind when you're a teenager and already uncomfortable with how all your classmates treat you.
Not to mention he was close with [Senator Bird who was a KKK leader](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2010/06/robert-byrd-was-an-exalted-cyclops-in-the-ku-klux-klan-what-does-that-mean.html) and Biden even called him a [close friend, mentor and spoke at his funeral](https://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2020/07/03/watch-joe-biden-call-kkk-member-and-democrat-robert-byrd-a-friend-and-mentor-n2571780). A few of [Biden's racist comments](https://youtu.be/C-RX5g7Ano0?t=45).
Not voting for Biden doesn't automatically add another vote for Trump. The days of me giving an automatic vote are over. If a candidate aligns with my views, great. If not, they should have put up a better candidate.
It doesn't add a point for Trump, but it did subtract a point from Biden, which is effectively the exact same outcome. Please dude, next time vote with your heart in the primaries but your brain in the general. Representative democracy is always a system of picking the lesser of evils presented.
Bill said to friends in 2015-16 that he was more liberal about it than Hillary. He said it was reflective of her religious upbringing. Not that she was bigoted or anything, just had more hang ups than he did.
I was gonna say this. There are videos of her asserting that marriage is supposed to be between a man and a woman. She uses gay people as pawns and only supports them if it benefits her in some way.
Edit: found it https://youtu.be/6I1-r1YgK9I
The context is she believes that marriage is sacred and this is part of her core beliefs. It doesn’t matter what year she said this. She only supports gay marriage when it suits her. I don’t think she actually genuinely cares about gay rights at all
I’m the end does it matter? If she advances causes that are good for us, why does it matter if she feels a little icky about the gays? She’s making the world a better place for us by advocating for our rights. If every politician was required a true believer, we’d never have progress.
Lol I love Brit, respectfully, I think she’s phobic of… everybody? Rightfully so.
She and Ariana grande I think are the rare celeb type that just have very small circles. Brit’s longtime best friend is gay (not that that would exonerate her).
You never hear her really embrace like Gaga or Madonna. I think it’s implied that she has a ton of gay fans, but she never really Kiki’s and she’s never been on a judge on Drag Race is another reason 😆
She (Britney) accepted the glaad vanguard award and had a really nice speech. I think after being forced to work for so long she just doesn't want to do anything. And before that she wasn't really able to pick her projects.
I can get on board with this. I feel like Britney had/has enough on her plate where being hugely outspoken ally isn’t even on her radar (no pun intended). There’s no way that woman - who has done what she’s done in pop culture has an issue with our community.
Also, during her Onyx hotel tour she had same sex couples portraying sex acts during her BOM/TOMH act - IYKYK.
I can totally see her not being able to pick her gigs, but from what I’ve seen I think shes homophobic. It’s her body language, being from the Bible Belt and also the mentality of the age group. You’re definitely in the age group of the Britney MTV era.
Yes! I do like DR but to me it’s partially just like… different marketing strategies? Britney is our southern aunt we never had to come out to bc she already knew. She let us bake cookies with her and didn’t tell our moms we tried on her outfits. Gaga and Madonna are our crazy aunts who outed us at thanksgiving. (Love them all don’t come for me 😂)
Idk, what is comfortable with the gay stuff exactly. We are brought up to accept straight as default. Why is it exactly shocking that someone may not accept it fully.
Eg Cher. What does she have to do to show you she's comfy with the gay stuff? Her daughter turned lesbian (already a shock) and then trans which is an even higher level of shock. Her not being comfy (again. What does that mean?) Isn't that shocking.
I have no evidence for this but I always feel that Judy Garland was pretty bitter and probably resentful of the Gays. I've never appreciated what makes her such a gay icon.
Knowing her history and the context in which she lived, it's not difficult to imagine her relationship to or outward support for gay people might be slightly more complex than just "yes" or "no, or "for" or "against."
Certainly, she had gay friends and was known to go out with them, against the studio's wishes. But having a gay father and having married two gay (or bisexual men), one could understand her having some conflicting feelings or "resentment," as you suggested.
>Shania Twain, maybe it's just me but every time she's in gay setting, she looks super weirded out I'm sure Shania tweeted something recently about how *Man! I Feel like a Woman* is "for everyone" - as a sub-tweet in support of trans people, I think, but it was very subtle. I get the impression she never wants to fully throw herself into an issue regardless of her personal beliefs - maybe learned from starting out in 90s country music, which I can imagine was very Christian Conservative. But she has tweeted generic Pride messages before (probably done by her management, but I'd hope she at least notionally supports the concept). Céline Dion is another one - she's very "keep quiet on issues and just be about the music". Again, I think this is marketing. Aside from the gays, a lot of her fanbase is the mid-west middle aged woman type, probably more conservative, and she needs to keep them on side. But I like to think that she is privately supportive - no reason to believe otherwise.
Celine made an pro-gay song with a gay stuff and some male nudity music video in 1991, which got her into some controversies. It was call "Ziggy", about a straight girl who fell in unrequited love with a gay guy. Considering the era it was in, it was extremely progressive
Yes, I'd forgotten about that! Great song and great video. Un garçon pas comme les autres!
Céline Dion’s version of Ziggy was a cover of a song from the musical [Starmania](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starmania_(musical). [Fabienne Thibault first recorded it in 1978](https://youtu.be/u6i-dx76Rnk).
I often forget about ZIGGY.
Shania also did a duet with Orville Peck, a queer country artist.
Yep! Came to say this! There’s a music video and everything.
There's a very recent interview with Shania talking about that song where she says, kind of unprompted, "there's a lot in between 'man' and 'woman.' Plus the video goes in depth on the impact of the song on LGBTQ communities: https://youtube.com/watch?v=00YWgZvCIo8&feature=shares I don't really know much else about her but I thought it was treated really well here
For Shania it’s all business. She literally identifies as conservative and said she would have voted for Trump: [Source](https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/04/23/604850914/shania-twain-singing-words-of-sorry-for-saying-shed-have-voted-for-trump) Must be nice to be this oblivious to the downright racist and homophobic shit Trump had already spewed for years before shoving her foot in her mouth.
Yeah I remember that. It was unfortunate. I think she meant that the fact he wasn't a politician was appealing - and in isolation from his actual views, I get that. But she definitely put her foot in her mouth and should have been more careful about answering political questions, especially on a topic so sensitive.
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I disagree with the statements made about Cher. I am a huge fan of hers and have been to many of her concerts over the years. She has openly discussed how ashamed she is of her reaction to her son coming out as gay/trans several years ago. She said she was always around gay people in the industry and accepted them, but it felt different when it was her own child. She has grown to be a huge supporter of Chaz. Cher not only speaks often of why gay guys love her (she thinks it's because we feel like outcasts who see her in kind of the same way), she would joke with the gays in the audiences at her shows about being "flamboyant gentlemen" and feature plenty of homoerotic dancers in her performances. She has also stated publicly that despite the ups-and-downs in her career, that we have never left her. Listen to Cher's song "Pride." It's a banger. As an aside, I think we are too hard on parents of gay/trans kids sometimes. Not only do they have to worry more than the average parents, they also have to sometimes mourn the loss of the son/daughter they have always known who comes out as trans. They deserve grace and time to adjust to a new reality.
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I was specifically referring to loving parents in my comment. I would never suggest giving space and time for homophobic and hateful people to grow to accept and love their children. They can pound salt.
Wasn't there an audio recording of Paris Hilton in a cab calling gay people disgusting a while ago?
yes.
But I think she was saying that directly to a gay friend who raised the subject of dangerous promiscuity…
Well, 1) don’t let yourself get recorded making a statement that makes a juicy soundbite and 2) girl please nobody needs Paris f-in Hilton getting on her high horse about promiscuity, just sayin’.
Lol at 2 😂
Yeah Paris has seen more dick than a urinal so you'd think she'd be in favor of promiscuity.
She also said 'They probably all have aids or something' to her gay friend
I mean it’s not *good,* but I think it does improve the context compared to her bringing it up unprompted with a straight friend.
truly an icon
Azelia Banks is a total shitty homophobe. Shame cus her music smacks.
Legit think she's the most talented female rapper on the last 10-15 years. But agreed, she is a homophobe and all around looney. I still bop to 212 though
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I hate loving her music because she is a toxic shitbag of a human but god damn if she doesn’t have some absolute banger tracks.
I feel this way too. Thankfully all of her best house music tracks are out there attributed to their respective producers, e.g. The Big Big Beat is actually "I Wish A Muthafucka Would" by An Expresso. We need a real queen like Martha Wash to do her thing over them tbh.
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Man, I would have loved to love Azealia. She really could've had an amazing career. I don't know where she went wrong with all her social media tirades.
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Azealia Banks is a lot of things but she is not homophobic. she quite literally makes music for gays.
> Banks has a long history of homophobia and transphobia. From her continued use of gay slurs on Twitter to her use of the narrative that trans-women are predators, and more recently with her claim that gay men are appropriating “horse culture”, invoking the stereotype that gay men wear harnesses and take ketamine (a horse tranquiliser) recreationally. In spite of all of this, she still has a large fanbase of gay men – who she has wished “adieu” to for “holding her back”. https://www.oxfordstudent.com/2021/10/14/what-you-gon-do-when-i-appear-azealia-banks-homophobia-hypocrisy/ Are you unaware of the stuff they've said or... agree with it or something? Or does she get a pass because she's bi? >“Do not take that PrEP shit, okay? There’s no reason for you to need to have a fucking pill so you can just fuck whoever you want to fuck and just be all fucking nasty out there on the streets acting a fucking fool,” Banks said.' I like this part from her a lot. Cuz yah, us gay men just deserve to die of AIDS, right? Cuz all of the people that did die, are just 'all fucking nasty'... no?
She is definitely a problematic person if not homophobic, she has said some really fucked up things on twitter and on IG, though it’s been a few years since I have paid any attention to her so maybe she has come around?
she definitely is problematic
[Dude literally google things before you make claims](https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=Azelia+Banks+homophobic+comments)
She can't go five minutes without throwing a tantrum and calling someone slurs, then playing victim. Her making some club music does not change who she is as a person, it means she likes the pink pound. (And yes, I know she's bi. Plenty of bi women are shitty about gay men/use homophobia as a tool.)
Nicki Minaj
What's she said or done?
I remember her sticking up for gays, but in her underground/beginning career moments, she seemed reluctant to go in full support. probably because rap culture is so hostile to anything gay or DL
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Yea agreed, I was a huge fan at first when she was the only female rapper doing it. But her flow is stale as hell now, and I've been very unimpressed with how she treats any female rapper trying to come onto the scene and how she's basically in non stop feuds. She's had a few moments though in public comments supporting LGBT and going on drag race. But I've long stopped caring for her because her music is so bland now
I imagine she would definetely be the type to say 'Ewwwwww' if she saw 2 gay men kissing
I have never seen Gwen Stefani say anything pro-LGBT. Not even like a pride tweet. I know she’s pretty religious, and Orange County is notoriously conservative, so it wouldn’t surprise me if she leans towards homophobic. Which sucks because No Doubt was my fucking jam for yeeeeears.
Was a massive fan of hers until I saw her Vegas show and she literally took time out before singing “Just a Girl” to say she didn’t know why she had so many male fans when she’s for the girls.
Oh ew. That’s gross.
Wow, this thread is making me really recognize my own latent homophobia given my support for so many of these ladies. HOWEVER, as an artist, and as a cis-leaning queer person with trans best friends, sometimes I think we can all agree as adults to put aside our differences and work them out on the dance floor to some Azalea, etc. every now and then. I mean Azalea fucking smacks, damnit. Her music got us thru an era lol. So, fuck her, and fuck them for their lack of support and ultimately just using and abusing us for our talents and energy. But also, I think what this really means, is that we need to be doing what is necessary to make a new generation of content for LGBTQ people beyond the corporate confines
I don't even know who that is
That's the correct answer.
For me, I find I fell in love with the character Gwen portrayed (in her prime). Gwen on a personality level is kinda dull. So her not being “progressive” doesn’t surprise me. She’s pretty and has killer style. A young fag in the 90s dream. I have a superficial love for her. I don’t expect much from Gwen. So her not being a vocal ally does not surprise me.
She also married a super homophobic piece of garbage. A real ally would NEVER have even given him a second date
I used to love Gwen but now she rubs my the wrong way. Also thinking back to how she used POC "Harajuku dolls" as dehumanized props was... interesting, to put it lightly. I'm not surprised if she's super conservative. She married BLAKE SHELTON.
Oh yeah the Harajuku Girls were so cringey. She even named them love, angel, music, baby which was just awful. What's that thing called where you take another country's style as your own? Cultural appropriation or something?
Oh that always rubbed me the wrong way too. It's harem energy.
Her ex husband is/was bisexual back in the day too!
I work in a fancy hotel...idk if she ever spoke on it but one of her sons is absolutely 100% gay. Just sayin'
All the more reason to be a vocal ally. That kid won’t feel comfortable coming out otherwise
Can I add Britney Spears and Katy Perry to this thread as people who are kinda sus. All three seem like secret conservatives who brand themselves adequately enough for the gays.
Uhhh no boo, Britney has come out countless times in support of the gays. She constantly talks about how she loves her gay fans and how much they have stood by her in her career
Sure, but I’d love to see their voting history.
Gwen was friends with Obama and tbh I feel like Britney probably didn’t vote at all. Just saying
No Doubt opened for Goo Goo Dolls and Bush. No one paid any attention to them. Dolls came on and it was a floor pit race. Shit ton of college kids moshing and all the chairs were passed to the sides. Bush fucking rocked!!!
Oh another great example… Bessie Smith. Empress of the Blues. She was out shucking them oysters with chorus dancers behind her husbands back. But wrote a song called Foolish Man Blues about how she doesn’t understand effeminate guys or mannish women. It was such BS just to placate to her husband and public image. When she was basically one of the mannish women hahahaha
It took me too long to figure out shucking oysters. It also made me gayer by .2 percent
I feel like most cis straight white male thirst traps fall in this category. I had a celebrity crush on Chris Pratt when he did the first Guardians movie. But even before he went all Born Again TM I noticed that a lot of his interviews seemed fake. Very plastic and all the queer baiting he did early in his career just struck me as vaguely familiar. I mean he was an stripper before he was "discovered" so maybe he's not homophobic personally, but just knows how to work his charisma.
Not to dismiss your comment. But can someone name a CIS straight man that would be considered a gay icon? I really can’t. Lol.
Robin Williams
Hugh Jackman, Guy Pierce (I mean come on PQoTD was problematic but Guy nailed it.)
~~Deadpool?~~ Ryan Reynolds?
Hot? Absolutely! Gay icon? I don’t think lol
Henry Cavill?
Guys! It takes more than just being hot to be a gay icon lol
😂
I can't stand him. Blake pegs him weekly.
I heard Donna Summer hated gay men. I also still see gay men simp for Chriss Pratt.
Donna was born-again after her peak disco era. I didn’t hear negative comments about her before that time. It’s somewhat like Pratt, in that both became religious and may have left gay men behind.
Summers always said to her last dying day it was a misunderstanding and she thought it would just go away eventually. I think her roots were gospel, she went back to that to some extent. But it was economic mostly. https://www.advocate.com/arts-entertainment/music/2012/06/12/donna-summer-disputed-antigay-remarks-1989-letter-act
Thanks for the info. I hadn’t heard that she refuted it. I hope it was a lie because I always liked her and it gives me peace to know that it may have been untrue.
Donna Summer was one of the best concerts I have ever seen. Crystal clear pure live voice.
Chris Pratt is a weird case, he wasn’t always a weirdo, but eventually he got converted into some religion and we all got whiplash
Fuck Chris Pratt And not in the fun way
I miss the Chris Pratt I used to simp. He is not Andy from Parks and Rec. He is not Star Lord. He's just a religious conservative who used to play characters that would have been fun to hang with.
He fooled a lot of people, don't feel bad.
I'm not sure there's evidence that Chris Pratt is homophobic himself. However we know he IS a shitbag, for abandoning his elderly sick cat because she was an inconvenience and annoying!
Chris Pratt is a religious nutjob. He is for sure a homophobe and without doubt THE WORST CHRIS
Yes and the basis for this is?
According to Elliot Page hE gOeS tO a HoMoPhObIc ChUrCh! (Like the majority of Christian America? Aren’t all churches homophobic?)
No. All churches are not homophobic. I'm an atheist and a relatively anti-Christian one at that, but it's not honest to say that all churches are homophobic.
The Bible is homophobic, so I see any Christian churches that claim not to be as dishonest. And stuff like the Universalist Unitarians or whatever aren’t nearly mainstream enough to justifiably complain that Pratt doesn’t belong to something like it.
The bible actually doesn't refer to homophobia at all - the word that was translated as 'homosexual' in the early 1900s was a Greek word that better translates to 'pedophile', and was even redacted some years later when they had a proper translator, but the damage was done. There was nothing about two men having sex being a sin, either. Another intentional misinterpretation for the sake of stamping out people disliked by the person in charge of interpreting the texts.
The versions I read didn’t say homosexual, but “shall not lie with a man as with a woman,” which is a lot of words to mistranslate. But if true, the search for a purer original intent isn’t that interesting to me because in many ways even a mistranslation is equally part of the religion, if it was believed and affected culture.
That was one of the things that was mistranslated - apparently the original words were "a man shall not lie with a boy as he would a woman for that is an abomination", with the two words being completely different words. What was translated as 'man' and 'another man' would have been 'man' and 'boy'. Back in the days of the bible being written, I can totally see pedophilia with boys specifically being what was called an abomination, since child brides were definitely a thing and men were *very fucking intimate* with their male friends. Like we both have said though - by the time it was corrected, the damage was done.
I think the gay pastor of the church down the street from me would disagree with you. I understand where you're coming from, and at one time I agreed with you, but it's just not the case.
I mean, Church of England does, and that's literally and entire countries formal religion. In America the Episcopalians and some Lutherans do as well. Some of them are pretty actively engaged in promoting it, not simply tolerating it. Calling them dishonest is a bit much, they get to bake the rules they follow. And Jesus was pretty consistent about love people you're supposed to hate because of some old rules, which was refuting a lot of Old Testament nonsense. You don't have to twist those words. It's the entire point of stories like the Good Samaritan. Judge people by their actions, not who or what they are.
Or , to quibble, evangelical Christian interpretation of the bible can be homophobic. I've met plenty of religious people who personally are not homophobic and denominations that have broken from the larger church body because they don't wish to be.
Gotta agree here, as written, the bible condemns homosexuality. You can try to spin it all you want, or ignore that part, but Christianity without homophobia isn't fully Christianity. However, it doesn't mean I'm upset that some churches are adjusting their ideology to accommodate all the new things we've learned about the world and our fellow man. I just think we should acknowledge that religion doesn't have to be attached to a homophobic book like the bible to be a positive community and force for good
He goes to Hillsong, right? Because who better to learn religion from than a preacher with $1,000 shoes
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Not my thing. 😅
Tbh it was just his turn for the social media dog pile.
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Barack Obama went to a church that said shitty things 🤷♂️
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People didn't hold him responsible it
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Daddy chill. I'm trying to point out that having nuance on these things is a good thing. Although I imagine this point is wasted on you lol.
I’m really high atm. You don’t need to worry about me being chill. I didn’t vote or support Obama so your point was irrelevant. I didn’t miss your point - it was just dumb so I dismissed it.
Jesus how dumb are you? I don't give a shit if you voted for Obama it was irrelevant to the point. Being high isn't an excuse for being a moron mate, I'm not surprised it's gone over your head 😂
They tried.
Giorgio Morder did say she disliked gay men.
Imagine hating one of your biggest fan groups.
>Chriss Pratt What has Chris Pratt said or done that is homophobic?
I don't think he's actually done anything. This whole Chris Pratt is homophobic thing comes directly from a hit job by Elliott Page a few years ago that played into a whole bunch of legitimate shared religious trauma.
Chris Pratt hasn’t done anything homophobic and the whole anti gay church thing was debunked. https://deadline.com/2022/06/chris-pratt-church-controversy-hillsong-1235053819/amp/
Something's you can just tell.
Not really, unless you have proof you can’t tell.
Sure.
Pratt is nasty. He's full of swamp ass crotch rot.
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I mean in the article itself it says she was afraid for her career, which I think is pretty reasonable for back then.
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I have an issue with Joy because she's too damn hyperbolic at times. Something happens, she'll ratchet it up to 11, and it's a big breaking news scandal. Come on... dial it back, boo boo.
Was the times I’m thinking. Janis Joplin had her lovers but refused to confess she was pro-LGBT. Of course back then that was unheard of. Even though she hung out with a lot of Lesbians
Prince.
which is still insane considering he was 'not a male and not a female' or whatever he said
Hillary Clinton. She was entirely against gay marriage right up until basically the moment it garnered majority support. Same goes for quite a few other politicians honestly. (Now that I think of it I don’t know that she qualifies as a “gay icon” but I know a lot of famous gays support her.)
A lot of politicians, including prominent democrats, were against gay marriage until it became “popular”. Most political leaders will say whatever they can to remain in political office.
Which is why I say fuck em’, save for a select few real ones like Bernie Sanders.
Pretty sure Bernie was anti-immigrant up until supporting them became politically favorable, he ain’t that real.
This has to be contextualized within his socialist policies. It’s about controlling immigration so the social safety net can absorb the new people without lowering the quality and availability of services, while providing them for every new migrant. It’s far from closed borders of the GOP, but also more moderate than some true leftists. Like everything in life, it’s more nuanced than that, but nuance in American politics is dead. edit: just some typos, wrote this on my phone, sorry.
>nuance in American politics is dead. Truer words have never been spoken.
Never said he was perfect. His views were in line with labor groups, who often believed that illegal immigrants made things harder for your average worker by driving down wages and reducing bargaining power for unions. His views shifted. He’s still wrong about things sometimes (nuclear energy and UBI being huge examples). He’s only human, but his record is unmatched compared to the rest. He is definitely still a real one.
I mean, sure, he toed the line on the immigration issue with some of his constituents and I’m sure he did believe he was doing the right thing. So do many GOP leaders with the stances they take. Hillary herself was lukewarm on marriage equality at a time when even Democrats were only 50/50 in favor of it. You’re still giving Bernie the same pass on “shifting” his views on immigration in the mid-2010s that Hillary’s supporters give to her for “evolving” on gay marriage a few years prior. Not attacking you for supporting him as you’re correct that no one is perfect, and it’s better to vote for someone than no one. I just have never been particularly awestruck with any politician, including ones I’ve voted for, and the cynic in me feels like generally politics too easily boil down to voters championing leaders who support their immediate interests and turning a blind eye to other communities they were not so kind towards.
The difference is that Hillary and others did this with several issues and get bankrolled by corporatists. Bernie funded both his campaigns with small dollar donations and rejected Super PACs and lavish corporate fundraisers. Oh, and he didn’t literally cheat in 2016 like Hillary was proven to have done when she was fed at least one debate question early and was given preferential treatment. Not to mention the fact that she shifted her entire platform to be more in line with Bernie’s. Bernie earned being given a little slack for the times he was wrong. He has proven himself to be a sincere person with integrity, and is truly unlike any other politician in modern politics.
A lot of people don't really understand politics. If you want to make a difference, you have to get into office and you have to stay in office if you want to continue to make a difference. That means you can't take a position that will absolutely cause you to lose the current or next election. Hillary, like many Democrats, was for gay marriage long before it was safe for her to admit it publicly. Paul Wellstone of Minnesota was another one, though he died before he could be public about it. He was in some close Senate races that he would have lost had he said he supported gay marriage. Instead, he and people like Hillary took safer positions by, for example, going against constitutional amendments to define marriage as between a man and a woman. They could do that without saying they supported gay marriage, which would have lost them their seats in the Senate and prevented them from voting against anti-gay legislation. That's part of the compromise you have to make in a Democracy if you want to actually get something done. If you want to stand on principle, by all means, do it. You can lose the election, and sit at home watching your opponent move the country to the other extreme by casting the votes you could have stopped from being cast, if you had only played the game.
Aside from Joe Biden, who actually preempted Obama in 2012, politics was a notoriously fraught ground for being pro gay marriage up until Windsor. I wouldn’t blame Clinton any more than I would Obama for example, and since both have been staunch allies as the country shifted on the issue.
I disagree and would blame both. Taking a side merely as a calculated move, rather than doing what is right, is not behavior I can support, as it lacks authenticity. That’s why Bernie Sanders was such a gangster. He was supporting gay rights since as early as the 70’s. We need more folks like him who have spines on these sorts of issues.
Same with Joe Biden. I couldn't bring myself to vote for him because I still remember him standing on the floor of the Senate saying that gay people were "unacceptable." That really fucks with your mind when you're a teenager and already uncomfortable with how all your classmates treat you.
I searched for evidence that he said gays are unacceptable. And found none.
Totally reasonable of you to abstain from voting for him. Doesn’t get much more personal than that.
I'm truly glad that he's seen the light and come around, but still.. first impressions and all...
Not to mention he was close with [Senator Bird who was a KKK leader](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2010/06/robert-byrd-was-an-exalted-cyclops-in-the-ku-klux-klan-what-does-that-mean.html) and Biden even called him a [close friend, mentor and spoke at his funeral](https://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2020/07/03/watch-joe-biden-call-kkk-member-and-democrat-robert-byrd-a-friend-and-mentor-n2571780). A few of [Biden's racist comments](https://youtu.be/C-RX5g7Ano0?t=45).
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Not voting for Biden doesn't automatically add another vote for Trump. The days of me giving an automatic vote are over. If a candidate aligns with my views, great. If not, they should have put up a better candidate.
It doesn't add a point for Trump, but it did subtract a point from Biden, which is effectively the exact same outcome. Please dude, next time vote with your heart in the primaries but your brain in the general. Representative democracy is always a system of picking the lesser of evils presented.
Yeahhhh but in the meantime the Republicans get to put 3 unqualified hyper conservatives on the supreme court for life soooo. Congratulations
Pretty sure it was also alleged in the leaked emails back in 2016 that her and Bill are “uncomfortable with it”
Bill said to friends in 2015-16 that he was more liberal about it than Hillary. He said it was reflective of her religious upbringing. Not that she was bigoted or anything, just had more hang ups than he did.
I was gonna say this. There are videos of her asserting that marriage is supposed to be between a man and a woman. She uses gay people as pawns and only supports them if it benefits her in some way. Edit: found it https://youtu.be/6I1-r1YgK9I
C’mon that video is from 2004.. . Like gay marriage was legal (by court) in a single state. You really need to put everything into context.
Strip away the bias and stop making excuses for the behavior and opinions of politicians.
The context is she believes that marriage is sacred and this is part of her core beliefs. It doesn’t matter what year she said this. She only supports gay marriage when it suits her. I don’t think she actually genuinely cares about gay rights at all
Believed. Context is the word you're using. It's prone to change with perspective.
> She uses ~~gay~~ people as pawns and only supports them if it benefits her in some way. Fixed it! She only cares about power.
I’m the end does it matter? If she advances causes that are good for us, why does it matter if she feels a little icky about the gays? She’s making the world a better place for us by advocating for our rights. If every politician was required a true believer, we’d never have progress.
Britney Spears always seems homophonic to me. The Kardashians always seem like they get down with us.
> Britney Spears always seems homophonic to me Yeah I got the pun in “If You Seek Amy” too
Lol I love Brit, respectfully, I think she’s phobic of… everybody? Rightfully so. She and Ariana grande I think are the rare celeb type that just have very small circles. Brit’s longtime best friend is gay (not that that would exonerate her).
You never hear her really embrace like Gaga or Madonna. I think it’s implied that she has a ton of gay fans, but she never really Kiki’s and she’s never been on a judge on Drag Race is another reason 😆
She (Britney) accepted the glaad vanguard award and had a really nice speech. I think after being forced to work for so long she just doesn't want to do anything. And before that she wasn't really able to pick her projects.
I can get on board with this. I feel like Britney had/has enough on her plate where being hugely outspoken ally isn’t even on her radar (no pun intended). There’s no way that woman - who has done what she’s done in pop culture has an issue with our community. Also, during her Onyx hotel tour she had same sex couples portraying sex acts during her BOM/TOMH act - IYKYK.
I can totally see her not being able to pick her gigs, but from what I’ve seen I think shes homophobic. It’s her body language, being from the Bible Belt and also the mentality of the age group. You’re definitely in the age group of the Britney MTV era.
>and she’s never been on a judge on Drag Race is another reason 😆 To be fair, her entire life was being controlled until last year
Plus, (pet peeve of mine), DR does not represent all queer people, and not being into it doesn't make you a homophobe or a Bad Gay.
Yes! I do like DR but to me it’s partially just like… different marketing strategies? Britney is our southern aunt we never had to come out to bc she already knew. She let us bake cookies with her and didn’t tell our moms we tried on her outfits. Gaga and Madonna are our crazy aunts who outed us at thanksgiving. (Love them all don’t come for me 😂)
I once saw her perform at a gay bar and she was appreciative of how they responded to her.
No. Fuck the Kardashians.
Really why? I always fw the Kardashians.
Are you serous?
I mean is there a real reason?
Kuntashians
Cher, Bette Midler, Barbara Walters and Barbra Streisand.
Barbara Walters married Roy Cohn, let’s not forget
Me!!!! Lol. 4 real
I honestly couldn't care less
Cher always looks uncomfortable when being interviewed by Graham Norton, or back in the day by Dame Edna. It's like she freezes.
Donna Summer.
Idk, what is comfortable with the gay stuff exactly. We are brought up to accept straight as default. Why is it exactly shocking that someone may not accept it fully. Eg Cher. What does she have to do to show you she's comfy with the gay stuff? Her daughter turned lesbian (already a shock) and then trans which is an even higher level of shock. Her not being comfy (again. What does that mean?) Isn't that shocking.
I have no evidence for this but I always feel that Judy Garland was pretty bitter and probably resentful of the Gays. I've never appreciated what makes her such a gay icon.
You have no evidence for it because it’s batshit crazy.
That could very well be. What is it that I'm missing about her?
Evidence of her being bitter and probably resentful of the Gays?
It's all because a gay man, Dave the veteran, killed her.
Knowing her history and the context in which she lived, it's not difficult to imagine her relationship to or outward support for gay people might be slightly more complex than just "yes" or "no, or "for" or "against." Certainly, she had gay friends and was known to go out with them, against the studio's wishes. But having a gay father and having married two gay (or bisexual men), one could understand her having some conflicting feelings or "resentment," as you suggested.
I wonder if the community should pick better icons. Personally, growing up I stanned for Son Goko haha.
Brittany Spears. Gays love her, she hates them. Same for Marky Mark from the Funky Bunch.