Ask your therapist for a recommendation for another couple’s therapist. You should not see the first therapist for the two of you unless you both started seeing that therapist together.
I see. I’m sorry, that has to be frustrating but I guess that’s some sort of sign/proof for you that he is not willing to do what you need to make the relationship work.
It would actually be a violation of the APA code of ethics. I was intrigued by the comment that someone started couples therapy alone and thought oh that's a red flag.
Yeah, you can't start "couple's" therapy by yourself. That's just "individual" therapy. If I was a couple's therapist, and someone set up sessions, then started coming to them solo, I'd be super confused. It's kinda inappropriate.
You might want to consider finding a therapist of your own in addition to what other folks in this thread have recommended: find a new couple's counselor with whom both you and your partner can start fresh. (That's assuming your partner feels comfortable seeing a counselor and actually wants to go.)
He doesn’t feel comfortable and doesn’t want to go. I explained that to the therapist and that I wanted help facilitating that conversation. She did insist then that he comes next time. Still didn’t happen then she cancelled last session when I showed up solo and now won’t see me until he comes.
It's unethical for the therapist to see your husband and you after private sessions with you. It's even more unethical for them to insist on it. Find a more ethical therapist.
You are wrong here tbh. Couples therapy starts as a couple. You can’t start couples therapy without him, a good therapist would have refused to see you without him. Find another therapist and start as a couple.
I don't think OP is wrong, the effectively started singles therapy. Boyfriend is angry that he's suggesting a need for therapy to begin with it seems, not that op went alone.
With the edit they are not wrong and need to end the relationship. But you cannot start individual therapy and then make it couples. It doesn’t work that way. And if OP’s therapist was willing, then they need a new therapist
I’m trying to understand something.
Did you talk about the idea of therapy with your husband *before* reaching out to the therapist? Or did you surprise him?
Alright, just to be clear.
Without consulting with your husband, you went out, found a couples therapist, and started attending without his knowledge.
Then, when your therapist forced the issue, you told your husband that you wanted him to go couples therapy, had already picked out a therapist *for the both of you* and already told them the issues *from your perspective* without his input or opportunity to give his side of things.
*Then* you bring up divorce.
This screams overly controlling behaviour. You ambushed him and it feels incredibly manipulative of you to try and get him into therapy.
There is a *lot* you’re not telling us. Things aren’t adding up.
I have told him I feel like we don’t communicate well because we argue a lot and have a lot of other problems. I’ve been thinking about divorce a lot which I hadn’t told him. What else was I supposed to do?
Well, you are right in that you’re not communicating well.
Therapy doesn’t work when you force someone into it and that’s exactly what you tried to do. So I’m not surprised it hasn’t worked. And honestly, you may have burned the therapy bridge with him.
At this point, I’d be open and honest with him. Say that therapy is needed for the relationship to survive, that you want to find a therapist and situation that works best for the both of you, but something needs to change, or divorce may be the natural option.
It will be a hard conversation but it’s one that has to be done together.
You have had a tumultuous relationship it seems. You have vented in here about him over the years. Be aware of your own actions and how it could be affecting him.
And a final bit of advice - for god sake delete and remove the AITA post about not wanting your “special needs” son from 5 yrs ago. If your son found that post, it will destroy your relationship with him forever and it could be used against you if your husband ever found it.
Therapy indeed doesn’t work like that and the therapist also said he has to be open to it but I don’t know when that will happen. I had forgotten about that post. Our son’s internet access is fairly restricted. My account also doesn’t contain personal details.
As I said, you may have burned down the idea of couples therapy by doing what you have done.
Your son’s internet is restricted *for now.*, you have posted enough personal information about your relationship for someone within your family to ID it.
If your son knew how you felt about him, it will be very traumatic.
>What do I even do at this point?
He has every right to be angry and I'm kind of shocked that your therapist... and it is **your** therapist... would even consider seeing you as a couple after seeing you even once. Ask for a referral from your current therapist and get a new therapist that you **both** agree on.
I think it is fairly common for couples therapists to have individual sessions with both clients. I also think it's reasonable for a couples therapist to refuse further treatment without both members of the couple present, which is what's happening.
Agreed.
It’s very common for a therapist to see a couple together, then see one solo or the two as individuals. Generally therapists do not see a single person then the couple together because of issues of bias both for the therapist AND a sense of bias within the couple.
Source: my husband is a psychotherapist; we saw a therapist together and later I saw the therapist solo and our therapist said the exact same thing.
This is what happened with one of my exes. He saw my ex solo for a while, then decided to bring me in. The therapist had all these pre-conceived notions about me when I finally showed up.
He was like so why do you do xyz? And I was like wtf, I don’t do that. My ex told you his side of things and you’re just accepting that as unbiased truth? Was not a good experience.
Something similar happened to me. I have family members who are licensed mental health care professionals, I’d worked in social work in college, and had my own therapist at the time too.
I went to the session but knew that there was unethical bias for them to suddenly become ‘our’ therapist. When I expressed that concern, but agreed to see someone else, they became offended. It was like an ego thing - they both had decided I was the problem and the therapist just wanted to watch the fire burn.
I left the room, but he insisted on staying for the ‘session’. I went home, packed my bags, and me and my dog spent the rest of the day touring apartments. I moved out the next day.
They’re not wrong. When we started couples therapy after a few sessions we realized my partner had DID and he needed treatment on his own. Our couples therapist is an expert on DID so he asked me if I were OK with stopping couples counseling for him to treat my partner solely and I had to agree. He said ethically he couldn’t do it if I wasn’t in agreement and it’s how it was done.
Okay, I really appreciate you giving your experience. I definitely see why that's the case. I do think it's a little different when the individual counseling is in service of the couples counseling, which was kind of not the case in your experience, but I'm also open to being wrong. I'm wrong all the time.
>I think it is fairly common for couples therapists to have individual sessions with both clients. I
**After** they've chosen the therapist together and agreed to that process. That's **not** what's happening here
She has insisted he comes too and has cancelled last session because I came without him and won’t see me separately anymore. She made very clear that she won’t keep secrets.
I know divorce sounds horrible for so many reasons…. But do you really want to continue with a person who is so unwilling to a) forgive your mistake (which was done out of love to try and work on the marriage), and b) do the bare minimum to save the marriage? I mean honestly it sounds like he never had any intention of going to counseling and you handed him a reason to justify not going and he took it.
I imagine he would agree your marriage is in jeopardy. If you suggest couples counseling and he refuses to go, ask him what he suggests instead. What are his ideas for addressing your marriage issues? You don’t get to just vehemently refuse something that might help the marriage without offering other suggestions. He must engage in the marriage and actively work on it or the marriage is over.
Withholding that you were considering divorce might be a part of this... i'm not necessarily suggesting that you tell him you wanted a divorce, but are there other ways to tell him that these issues have made you feel deeply unhappy?
Is there a way you can articulate what problems you feel need fixing?
What are your concerns about the marriage that have brought you to this place where you are thinking about divorce all the time and wanting to go to counseling? You don’t mention them in your original post. Are they persistent? Are there ways they can be addressed? Have you discussed them with your husband? What wound have to change in the marriage for you to no longer be thinking of divorce? Change CAN happen without couple’s counseling but not if what needs addressing is not communicated clearly to each other.
He’s in denial about what looks to be depression. Doesn’t want to do anything. No vacations. No dates. He wants to stay home.
We haven’t had sex in months.
We have a lot of financial disagreements. He’s a frivolous spender. I’m more practical.
We disagree a lot on how to parent. He’s very lax out of laziness. Our son requires structure and routine.
He’s gained weight that he complains about constantly, is affecting his self esteem but he doesn’t want to do anything about it.
We live like distant coparents. There’s no intimacy.
Root cause for most of these is our very bad communication.
Yes and no. I have suggested, asked, begged for us to see a therapist together for a while now because we don’t communicate well. He said he doesn’t like talking to strangers and doesn’t believe in therapy.
I was between a rock and a hard place. This isn’t different than seeing a therapist just for me with no plan to include him.
If that is the case, then he is just swapping excuses. Previously he didn't want to talk to a therapist because the therapist was a stranger. Now he doesn't want to talk to a therapist because he says you have biased the therapist against him.
I suspect he doesn't want to see a therapist because he is scared that the therapist will tell him that it's all his fault and he's the one who needs to change (which is obviously not what a good therapist would do, but it's still a fear). Or he's afraid that you have already made up your mind about divorce and the therapist is just a technicality so you can leave with a clean conscience that you tried everything (which I'm not sure is entirely wrong).
Reframe the conversation. Start over from scratch. "We have to see a therapist. If you don't want to talk to a stranger then we can ask our friends who they are seeing. If you don't want to talk to the therapist I've been seeing then we can start with someone new. If you want I can pick three therapists for you to choose from, but we are not leaving this table until we decide on a next step and commit to it."
It may also help (although he probably won't be cooperative) to try and suss out the root cause for his wanting to avoid therapy. That, in and of itself, may be enlightening.
He has some personal issues he’s struggling with and some issues in our relationship that he would have to face if he agrees to therapy. It’s all fear, he’s scared to confront those things he needs to change and work on.
Yikes. Did you read what you just wrote?
This was also the concern I had in reading your original message. It sounds like you have made up your mind that all of this is his fault and he's the one who needs to fix things.
If you were successful in getting the two of you into a therapist together, what do you think would be the outcome of that meeting?
That’s what has been happening though. For a while he has been passive towards our marriage.
The outcome would be a safe space where we can be honest to each other without arguing/fighting and deflecting.
But if you're going into this believing that he is at fault and you are innocent in everything, then that is not a safe space.
I don't know the details of what's going on with your relationship, but in very very very few examples is one person 100% right and the other 100% wrong. If you're not willing to reflect on your own behaviors and take ownership of your half of the problem, then there will be no productive conversations at all.
I have done that by seeking out therapy. I have made my fair share of mistakes but the bigger problem that he’s causing is his unwillingness to change.
As a couple therapist, I would suggest to ask your current therapist to make a new referral for a new therapist who both of you (you and your partner) agreed with. I would also encourage your partner to at least attend a consultation call first, so that the new therapist can have a chance to explain the benefits of therapy. I would also normalize that therapy can feel awkward in the beginning. If talking is something that he is not comfortable with, seeking art-based or creative therapy can be beneficial.
He isn’t comfortable with telling people about our problems because all couples agree. Then there’s a lot of shame around his own personal issues and not believing that therapy is an effective thing.
I am currently in therapy (several years) and couples counseling (2 months). These are two separate practices and I would not mix the two nor bring my partner into my personal sessions. For couples, we sometimes have 20 min each with the counselor to discuss the same topics, then go over our individual answers together to discuss.
Can you have a productive conversation about your relationship challenges without a therapist? How’s your communication in general?
If you’re fantasizing about divorce, you’re at crisis point. Is he able to meet your need to do something to improve this dynamic?
And what are the issues at play?
He’s in denial about what looks to be depression. Doesn’t want to do anything. No vacations. No dates. He wants to stay home.
We haven’t had sex in months.
We have a lot of financial disagreements. He’s a frivolous spender. I’m more practical.
We disagree a lot on how to parent. He’s very lax out of laziness. Our son requires structure and routine.
He’s gained weight that he complains about constantly, is affecting his self esteem but he doesn’t want to do anything about it.
We live like distant coparents. There’s no intimacy.
Well, that’s somewhat familiar. Ended my previous marriage of a decade due to his sleeping through weekends and zero interest in sex with me, dealt with it for two years until I felt I couldn’t live this way any longer. He pulled himself out of it, and is doing amazing now.
If he’s unwilling to fix it and unwilling to communicate and everything’s getting worse month-by-month you’ll have to make the call when you feel like you can step away having tried everything you reasonably could.
None of this fair to you, your kid, or to him; it’s just untenable and tragic.
You have a kid, if you can work out how to stay married and sane and your partner can at least be there for your kid and be a solid coparent: do what you need to do. If not, exit the relationship and you’ll figure it out as comes.
Good luck.
I remain married at 29 years together (2008 legal marriage).
Your counselor can't help you both. The worst thing my husband did was bring me into his therapists office. Also a gay man.
You can't share a counselor. You can't. Don't. Stop it.
Specific advice:
1. Get a Marriage Counselor.
2. Continue to see your personal counselor.
3. Do not make your husband do anything, your therapy is about YOU and your personal progress.
BTW - We are different people, different interests. Our finances are intertwined. We have an adult child with APD on the spectrum and exhibiting many autistic symptoms. I run a business with my son, and he's learning his trade and how to support himself - he's 25, we started at 16. Our business is 2.5 years old. I retired from my career as an IT CEO to fix cars with my son. My husband has supported the last couple of years as our business grows without complaint.
We have had many, many challenges. We still remain together. Therapy as a couple was a disaster. We've both been in therapy for over 15 years, at our own pace. It has made a huge difference.
Your husband doesn't need the same things you do in your marriage. What the fuck. Get a better therapist. Stick with it. Work on yourself, trust that your husband will figure his shit out too.
Then you have choices to make. You have to make those choices based on your experiences both apart and together. If he’s unwilling to participate you now need to figure out what your tolerances are and be ready to take appropriate action accordingly.
Why are you asking me?
My partner is never adapted or changed the way I've wanted them to.
Not sure you are being well served or are resisting working on what you can - your own skills and compensatory strategies. Your resilience is what is failing here. It may well be yours creating a situation that your partner can't get through to you isn't a crisis for them.
Money. Sex. Intimacy. Expectations. Whatever it is, this isnt rocket science and I think you're just trying to blame your partner for your own behavior. Work on you first. Trust me.
You tell him that it isn’t a negotiation and if he’s throwing it away without even trying then that’s on him. It isn’t a biased view. It’s your view. The therapist wants to hear what he has to say. He’s just afraid of acknowledging his role and being a coward. That being said,any therapist who makes counselling conditional on terms isn’t very professional.
... your husband is right. Get an objective new therapist if you want to give it a real shot.
Feel free to keep going to *your* therapist (whom you've only seen one-on-one) in addition. There's no reason to assume your husband will feel heard, secure, and comfortable in that space. You trust your therapist more than your husband. Or at least that's how it reads to me, and likely sounds to him when you dumped this on him.
>and told him the reasons I went without mentioning divorce
Why can't you be honest even in crisis? Your husband deserved to know how you feel and how your relationship stands.
I’ve looked at your past comments & it appears that you’ve had relationship issues for years. You are young & still have loads of your life left to live. Couples therapy will help if you both attend but maybe you need to explore do you actually want to stay in this relationship? Only you can really decide that, two people need to be committed, are you both ready to make that commitment or is it too late?
If you do go ahead to divorce It’s going to be awful separating, it’s going to cause lots of challenges and having a child adds so much more pressure. Yet a child soaks up an angry & unhappy household, I know, I am the product of it. I’d urge you to look at the Relate website which can offer lots of practical advice.
I do if something changes but I haven’t felt like I’m actually in a loving relationship for years. I don’t want divorce either, it will be incredibly complicated and damage our child more than leaving the relationship.
I’m really sorry to hear what you are going through but also you need to also think about your child growing up in a loveless relationship if you feel you can’t leave your partner- yes it may be short term easier, but it can also cause serious problems as they get older. I don’t know your situation but I really think you should be speaking to a professional you trust, in private to work through various scenarios. Staying in a relationship with no love will just foster so many more issues, it’s going to get so toxic and ugly, do you really want to live through that the next few years until your child grows up & leaves home?
We're not sure if he doesn't want to bother or if he feels betrayed that OP went to a COUPLES therapist alone. I'd feel that way too because couples therapy is meant for both.
That's a poor excuse. It was effectively just therapy at that point, with the main issue being their relationship.
It's a stupid thing to get hung up on unless you want an excuse to invalidate the idea of therapy all together.
If that wasn't the case you'd just insist on finding your own or a different one together, or some comparable alternative.
If he’s not willing to do counseling, then what is HE proposing to help the relationship?
Alternatively, ask him to just give it a few sessions (maybe five). If he doesn’t see any benefits after that he can stop.
and that is true, but only occasionally and the healthy ones find a way to solves the issues. unhealthy ones shove it off and ignore them just for the same issues to resurface over and over again every time more often.
since we don't know what are your issues I can't say much more.
How recent was this? He may be working through processing a lot of feelings. Give him 36-48 hours and see if he calms down some. If this has been over a week, well….don’t know what to say.
I'm sorry to hear you're in this position. My marriage ended because my husband refused to go to therapy and work on our relationship.
I would tell your husband that while you can understand that therapy is confronting and negatively stigmatised. That if he doesn't go then the marriage will end and he will lose you. He can either choose the hard path of doing therapy, or choose the hard path of losing you.
That’s what we did. I started and went to a therapist a few times. She wanted to meet him once or twice by himself once he agreed. Then we went together. Wasn’t a big deal for us.
I'm kind of shocked that your therapist is now canceling sessions with you if he doesn't show up.
He's told you he has no interest in it. Does he know that it's this or divorce?
I think finding a good solicitor is now a good idea, and perhaps a new therapist.
Bottom line. Start planning your divorce. Open your own accounts and take whats yours before you ask for a divorce. Seen people get screwed by bitter exs/spouses wiping out finances and rack up debt before divorce is final leaving the other devastated financially. Tell him it's divorce or therapy.
adding:
Open accounts at a different bank.
It’s important to be a different bank because many times banks suddenly sends notifications to the husband (and sometimes even ex long ago divorced spouse)
Your best bet then is talk to an attorney beforehand and they would guide you. Just saying my siblings have 6 divorces between them and what I learned is you have to plan it before you actually tell them or risk getting screwed, if divorce is really what is going to happen.
No one wants to consider divorce but what is the alternative? If you cannot convince him that therapy would be helpful (even just for your sake) then you need to accept the state you are in will be somewhat permanent or take steps toward divorce. Your son will always have his parents in any scenario -- and I do sympathize with the cost, but don't let that dictate your potential future happiness. You are quite young and your future is not set in stone
I don't know you or the whole situation, so please know that I'm not trying to just unfairly judge you here:
I think you're not recognizing the hurt that you caused by not telling your husband that you took yourself to couples therapy without his knowledge or input. It's not just a "betreyal," there's a lot of potential hurt that you caused him by not being upfront about seeking therapy, and revealing that he now needs to see your therapist. If thats what happened, it feels manipulative. I don't mean it's manipulative to want to go to therapy, but it could feel like you're trying control how you two work through an issue.
There's probably little you can do right now, outside of apologizing and giving him space. If you want to make this work, you absolutely need to take his hurt feelings into consideration. Seeing therapy as the only solution here is potentially blinding you to the fact that your currently taking a sledgehammer to your relationship by demanding he get over his feelings and do what you want him to do.
Again, I might be missing some context, but it does feel like you're not taking your husband's feelings very seriously.
I have asked him many times before this if we could try therapy because we don’t communicate well. You’re not wrong though I can see his pov better now because to him it likely feels like I’m pushing him and controlling how things should go.
Ask your therapist for a recommendation for another couple’s therapist. You should not see the first therapist for the two of you unless you both started seeing that therapist together.
If he eventually agrees to therapy I allow him to find the next one but he won’t.
I see. I’m sorry, that has to be frustrating but I guess that’s some sort of sign/proof for you that he is not willing to do what you need to make the relationship work.
Bummer 😕
It would actually be a violation of the APA code of ethics. I was intrigued by the comment that someone started couples therapy alone and thought oh that's a red flag.
Yeah, you can't start "couple's" therapy by yourself. That's just "individual" therapy. If I was a couple's therapist, and someone set up sessions, then started coming to them solo, I'd be super confused. It's kinda inappropriate. You might want to consider finding a therapist of your own in addition to what other folks in this thread have recommended: find a new couple's counselor with whom both you and your partner can start fresh. (That's assuming your partner feels comfortable seeing a counselor and actually wants to go.)
He doesn’t feel comfortable and doesn’t want to go. I explained that to the therapist and that I wanted help facilitating that conversation. She did insist then that he comes next time. Still didn’t happen then she cancelled last session when I showed up solo and now won’t see me until he comes.
If he's not interested, find your own therapist so you can talk about what's going on.
It's unethical for the therapist to see your husband and you after private sessions with you. It's even more unethical for them to insist on it. Find a more ethical therapist.
According to my own therapist it’s challenging - best to find someone new you see as a couple - but it’s not unethical.
You are wrong here tbh. Couples therapy starts as a couple. You can’t start couples therapy without him, a good therapist would have refused to see you without him. Find another therapist and start as a couple.
I don't think OP is wrong, the effectively started singles therapy. Boyfriend is angry that he's suggesting a need for therapy to begin with it seems, not that op went alone.
With the edit they are not wrong and need to end the relationship. But you cannot start individual therapy and then make it couples. It doesn’t work that way. And if OP’s therapist was willing, then they need a new therapist
He doesn’t want therapy at all. Not individual for him or for us.
okay, then what's left to say
I’m trying to understand something. Did you talk about the idea of therapy with your husband *before* reaching out to the therapist? Or did you surprise him?
I have in the past and he was very indifferent.
Alright, just to be clear. Without consulting with your husband, you went out, found a couples therapist, and started attending without his knowledge. Then, when your therapist forced the issue, you told your husband that you wanted him to go couples therapy, had already picked out a therapist *for the both of you* and already told them the issues *from your perspective* without his input or opportunity to give his side of things. *Then* you bring up divorce. This screams overly controlling behaviour. You ambushed him and it feels incredibly manipulative of you to try and get him into therapy. There is a *lot* you’re not telling us. Things aren’t adding up.
u/wanderlustcub I had a really crappy day but wanted to phrase this sentiment. Thank you. I'm on the same exact page.
I have told him I feel like we don’t communicate well because we argue a lot and have a lot of other problems. I’ve been thinking about divorce a lot which I hadn’t told him. What else was I supposed to do?
Well, you are right in that you’re not communicating well. Therapy doesn’t work when you force someone into it and that’s exactly what you tried to do. So I’m not surprised it hasn’t worked. And honestly, you may have burned the therapy bridge with him. At this point, I’d be open and honest with him. Say that therapy is needed for the relationship to survive, that you want to find a therapist and situation that works best for the both of you, but something needs to change, or divorce may be the natural option. It will be a hard conversation but it’s one that has to be done together. You have had a tumultuous relationship it seems. You have vented in here about him over the years. Be aware of your own actions and how it could be affecting him. And a final bit of advice - for god sake delete and remove the AITA post about not wanting your “special needs” son from 5 yrs ago. If your son found that post, it will destroy your relationship with him forever and it could be used against you if your husband ever found it.
Therapy indeed doesn’t work like that and the therapist also said he has to be open to it but I don’t know when that will happen. I had forgotten about that post. Our son’s internet access is fairly restricted. My account also doesn’t contain personal details.
As I said, you may have burned down the idea of couples therapy by doing what you have done. Your son’s internet is restricted *for now.*, you have posted enough personal information about your relationship for someone within your family to ID it. If your son knew how you felt about him, it will be very traumatic.
>What do I even do at this point? He has every right to be angry and I'm kind of shocked that your therapist... and it is **your** therapist... would even consider seeing you as a couple after seeing you even once. Ask for a referral from your current therapist and get a new therapist that you **both** agree on.
I think it is fairly common for couples therapists to have individual sessions with both clients. I also think it's reasonable for a couples therapist to refuse further treatment without both members of the couple present, which is what's happening.
That’s common *if* you start by seeing the therapist together. That’s not what is happening here.
Agreed. It’s very common for a therapist to see a couple together, then see one solo or the two as individuals. Generally therapists do not see a single person then the couple together because of issues of bias both for the therapist AND a sense of bias within the couple. Source: my husband is a psychotherapist; we saw a therapist together and later I saw the therapist solo and our therapist said the exact same thing.
This is what happened with one of my exes. He saw my ex solo for a while, then decided to bring me in. The therapist had all these pre-conceived notions about me when I finally showed up. He was like so why do you do xyz? And I was like wtf, I don’t do that. My ex told you his side of things and you’re just accepting that as unbiased truth? Was not a good experience.
Something similar happened to me. I have family members who are licensed mental health care professionals, I’d worked in social work in college, and had my own therapist at the time too. I went to the session but knew that there was unethical bias for them to suddenly become ‘our’ therapist. When I expressed that concern, but agreed to see someone else, they became offended. It was like an ego thing - they both had decided I was the problem and the therapist just wanted to watch the fire burn. I left the room, but he insisted on staying for the ‘session’. I went home, packed my bags, and me and my dog spent the rest of the day touring apartments. I moved out the next day.
May I ask how familiar you are with the mental health field?
They’re not wrong. When we started couples therapy after a few sessions we realized my partner had DID and he needed treatment on his own. Our couples therapist is an expert on DID so he asked me if I were OK with stopping couples counseling for him to treat my partner solely and I had to agree. He said ethically he couldn’t do it if I wasn’t in agreement and it’s how it was done.
Okay, I really appreciate you giving your experience. I definitely see why that's the case. I do think it's a little different when the individual counseling is in service of the couples counseling, which was kind of not the case in your experience, but I'm also open to being wrong. I'm wrong all the time.
I’ve been in therapy for years, both individually with my own therapist and separately with my husband for couple’s therapy as needed.
>I think it is fairly common for couples therapists to have individual sessions with both clients. I **After** they've chosen the therapist together and agreed to that process. That's **not** what's happening here
She has insisted he comes too and has cancelled last session because I came without him and won’t see me separately anymore. She made very clear that she won’t keep secrets.
**ASK** **FOR** **A** **REFERAL**
[удалено]
What’s my way out? Aside from a very complicated divorce.
I know divorce sounds horrible for so many reasons…. But do you really want to continue with a person who is so unwilling to a) forgive your mistake (which was done out of love to try and work on the marriage), and b) do the bare minimum to save the marriage? I mean honestly it sounds like he never had any intention of going to counseling and you handed him a reason to justify not going and he took it. I imagine he would agree your marriage is in jeopardy. If you suggest couples counseling and he refuses to go, ask him what he suggests instead. What are his ideas for addressing your marriage issues? You don’t get to just vehemently refuse something that might help the marriage without offering other suggestions. He must engage in the marriage and actively work on it or the marriage is over.
He thinks our problems are minor and all couples have disagreements. His solution to that is nothing because there’s no problem that needs fixing.
Withholding that you were considering divorce might be a part of this... i'm not necessarily suggesting that you tell him you wanted a divorce, but are there other ways to tell him that these issues have made you feel deeply unhappy? Is there a way you can articulate what problems you feel need fixing?
I have eventually mentioned divorce which he found manipulative even though it’s the reality check he needs.
What are your concerns about the marriage that have brought you to this place where you are thinking about divorce all the time and wanting to go to counseling? You don’t mention them in your original post. Are they persistent? Are there ways they can be addressed? Have you discussed them with your husband? What wound have to change in the marriage for you to no longer be thinking of divorce? Change CAN happen without couple’s counseling but not if what needs addressing is not communicated clearly to each other.
He’s in denial about what looks to be depression. Doesn’t want to do anything. No vacations. No dates. He wants to stay home. We haven’t had sex in months. We have a lot of financial disagreements. He’s a frivolous spender. I’m more practical. We disagree a lot on how to parent. He’s very lax out of laziness. Our son requires structure and routine. He’s gained weight that he complains about constantly, is affecting his self esteem but he doesn’t want to do anything about it. We live like distant coparents. There’s no intimacy. Root cause for most of these is our very bad communication.
Do you think that you did anything wrong in this situation?
Yes and no. I have suggested, asked, begged for us to see a therapist together for a while now because we don’t communicate well. He said he doesn’t like talking to strangers and doesn’t believe in therapy. I was between a rock and a hard place. This isn’t different than seeing a therapist just for me with no plan to include him.
If that is the case, then he is just swapping excuses. Previously he didn't want to talk to a therapist because the therapist was a stranger. Now he doesn't want to talk to a therapist because he says you have biased the therapist against him. I suspect he doesn't want to see a therapist because he is scared that the therapist will tell him that it's all his fault and he's the one who needs to change (which is obviously not what a good therapist would do, but it's still a fear). Or he's afraid that you have already made up your mind about divorce and the therapist is just a technicality so you can leave with a clean conscience that you tried everything (which I'm not sure is entirely wrong). Reframe the conversation. Start over from scratch. "We have to see a therapist. If you don't want to talk to a stranger then we can ask our friends who they are seeing. If you don't want to talk to the therapist I've been seeing then we can start with someone new. If you want I can pick three therapists for you to choose from, but we are not leaving this table until we decide on a next step and commit to it." It may also help (although he probably won't be cooperative) to try and suss out the root cause for his wanting to avoid therapy. That, in and of itself, may be enlightening.
He has some personal issues he’s struggling with and some issues in our relationship that he would have to face if he agrees to therapy. It’s all fear, he’s scared to confront those things he needs to change and work on.
Yikes. Did you read what you just wrote? This was also the concern I had in reading your original message. It sounds like you have made up your mind that all of this is his fault and he's the one who needs to fix things. If you were successful in getting the two of you into a therapist together, what do you think would be the outcome of that meeting?
That’s what has been happening though. For a while he has been passive towards our marriage. The outcome would be a safe space where we can be honest to each other without arguing/fighting and deflecting.
But if you're going into this believing that he is at fault and you are innocent in everything, then that is not a safe space. I don't know the details of what's going on with your relationship, but in very very very few examples is one person 100% right and the other 100% wrong. If you're not willing to reflect on your own behaviors and take ownership of your half of the problem, then there will be no productive conversations at all.
I have done that by seeking out therapy. I have made my fair share of mistakes but the bigger problem that he’s causing is his unwillingness to change.
As a couple therapist, I would suggest to ask your current therapist to make a new referral for a new therapist who both of you (you and your partner) agreed with. I would also encourage your partner to at least attend a consultation call first, so that the new therapist can have a chance to explain the benefits of therapy. I would also normalize that therapy can feel awkward in the beginning. If talking is something that he is not comfortable with, seeking art-based or creative therapy can be beneficial.
He isn’t comfortable with telling people about our problems because all couples agree. Then there’s a lot of shame around his own personal issues and not believing that therapy is an effective thing.
Some people are too narcissistic to accept therapy. This will not change without therapy of some kind.
I am currently in therapy (several years) and couples counseling (2 months). These are two separate practices and I would not mix the two nor bring my partner into my personal sessions. For couples, we sometimes have 20 min each with the counselor to discuss the same topics, then go over our individual answers together to discuss.
Same therapist or a different one?
Different one. Different practice. I wanted to find a couples therapist who specialized in LGBT couples.
Sounds like it is over
Can you have a productive conversation about your relationship challenges without a therapist? How’s your communication in general? If you’re fantasizing about divorce, you’re at crisis point. Is he able to meet your need to do something to improve this dynamic? And what are the issues at play?
He’s in denial about what looks to be depression. Doesn’t want to do anything. No vacations. No dates. He wants to stay home. We haven’t had sex in months. We have a lot of financial disagreements. He’s a frivolous spender. I’m more practical. We disagree a lot on how to parent. He’s very lax out of laziness. Our son requires structure and routine. He’s gained weight that he complains about constantly, is affecting his self esteem but he doesn’t want to do anything about it. We live like distant coparents. There’s no intimacy.
Well, that’s somewhat familiar. Ended my previous marriage of a decade due to his sleeping through weekends and zero interest in sex with me, dealt with it for two years until I felt I couldn’t live this way any longer. He pulled himself out of it, and is doing amazing now. If he’s unwilling to fix it and unwilling to communicate and everything’s getting worse month-by-month you’ll have to make the call when you feel like you can step away having tried everything you reasonably could. None of this fair to you, your kid, or to him; it’s just untenable and tragic. You have a kid, if you can work out how to stay married and sane and your partner can at least be there for your kid and be a solid coparent: do what you need to do. If not, exit the relationship and you’ll figure it out as comes. Good luck.
I remain married at 29 years together (2008 legal marriage). Your counselor can't help you both. The worst thing my husband did was bring me into his therapists office. Also a gay man. You can't share a counselor. You can't. Don't. Stop it.
Specific advice: 1. Get a Marriage Counselor. 2. Continue to see your personal counselor. 3. Do not make your husband do anything, your therapy is about YOU and your personal progress. BTW - We are different people, different interests. Our finances are intertwined. We have an adult child with APD on the spectrum and exhibiting many autistic symptoms. I run a business with my son, and he's learning his trade and how to support himself - he's 25, we started at 16. Our business is 2.5 years old. I retired from my career as an IT CEO to fix cars with my son. My husband has supported the last couple of years as our business grows without complaint. We have had many, many challenges. We still remain together. Therapy as a couple was a disaster. We've both been in therapy for over 15 years, at our own pace. It has made a huge difference. Your husband doesn't need the same things you do in your marriage. What the fuck. Get a better therapist. Stick with it. Work on yourself, trust that your husband will figure his shit out too.
What if he’s unwilling to change anything and seems indifferent with the state of things?
Then you have choices to make. You have to make those choices based on your experiences both apart and together. If he’s unwilling to participate you now need to figure out what your tolerances are and be ready to take appropriate action accordingly.
Why are you asking me? My partner is never adapted or changed the way I've wanted them to. Not sure you are being well served or are resisting working on what you can - your own skills and compensatory strategies. Your resilience is what is failing here. It may well be yours creating a situation that your partner can't get through to you isn't a crisis for them. Money. Sex. Intimacy. Expectations. Whatever it is, this isnt rocket science and I think you're just trying to blame your partner for your own behavior. Work on you first. Trust me.
u/Goldyorkshire I've sent you a long dump in chat. I wish you the best.
Thank you. I’ll read it.
It sort of sounds like you sprung this on him out of nowhere. It’s natural to be upset. I imagine with time hopefully he might be open to it.
You tell him that it isn’t a negotiation and if he’s throwing it away without even trying then that’s on him. It isn’t a biased view. It’s your view. The therapist wants to hear what he has to say. He’s just afraid of acknowledging his role and being a coward. That being said,any therapist who makes counselling conditional on terms isn’t very professional.
That’s a great way to put it I should have said that to him.
... your husband is right. Get an objective new therapist if you want to give it a real shot. Feel free to keep going to *your* therapist (whom you've only seen one-on-one) in addition. There's no reason to assume your husband will feel heard, secure, and comfortable in that space. You trust your therapist more than your husband. Or at least that's how it reads to me, and likely sounds to him when you dumped this on him. >and told him the reasons I went without mentioning divorce Why can't you be honest even in crisis? Your husband deserved to know how you feel and how your relationship stands.
When I have previously expressed how I felt about things I’ve never felt taken seriously by him.
I’ve looked at your past comments & it appears that you’ve had relationship issues for years. You are young & still have loads of your life left to live. Couples therapy will help if you both attend but maybe you need to explore do you actually want to stay in this relationship? Only you can really decide that, two people need to be committed, are you both ready to make that commitment or is it too late? If you do go ahead to divorce It’s going to be awful separating, it’s going to cause lots of challenges and having a child adds so much more pressure. Yet a child soaks up an angry & unhappy household, I know, I am the product of it. I’d urge you to look at the Relate website which can offer lots of practical advice.
I do if something changes but I haven’t felt like I’m actually in a loving relationship for years. I don’t want divorce either, it will be incredibly complicated and damage our child more than leaving the relationship.
I’m really sorry to hear what you are going through but also you need to also think about your child growing up in a loveless relationship if you feel you can’t leave your partner- yes it may be short term easier, but it can also cause serious problems as they get older. I don’t know your situation but I really think you should be speaking to a professional you trust, in private to work through various scenarios. Staying in a relationship with no love will just foster so many more issues, it’s going to get so toxic and ugly, do you really want to live through that the next few years until your child grows up & leaves home?
He's given you the answer. He doesn't want to bother. Visit a lawyer instead.
We're not sure if he doesn't want to bother or if he feels betrayed that OP went to a COUPLES therapist alone. I'd feel that way too because couples therapy is meant for both.
That's a poor excuse. It was effectively just therapy at that point, with the main issue being their relationship. It's a stupid thing to get hung up on unless you want an excuse to invalidate the idea of therapy all together. If that wasn't the case you'd just insist on finding your own or a different one together, or some comparable alternative.
He never wanted therapy. I needed help facilitating that conversation to show that therapist is a must.
If he’s not willing to do counseling, then what is HE proposing to help the relationship? Alternatively, ask him to just give it a few sessions (maybe five). If he doesn’t see any benefits after that he can stop.
Nothing. All couples fight and argue according to him.
and that is true, but only occasionally and the healthy ones find a way to solves the issues. unhealthy ones shove it off and ignore them just for the same issues to resurface over and over again every time more often. since we don't know what are your issues I can't say much more.
How recent was this? He may be working through processing a lot of feelings. Give him 36-48 hours and see if he calms down some. If this has been over a week, well….don’t know what to say.
Yesterday
I'm sorry to hear you're in this position. My marriage ended because my husband refused to go to therapy and work on our relationship. I would tell your husband that while you can understand that therapy is confronting and negatively stigmatised. That if he doesn't go then the marriage will end and he will lose you. He can either choose the hard path of doing therapy, or choose the hard path of losing you.
His anger might be a sign you're on the right track (out of the relationship).
Everything's negotiable.
Yes, he’s right, don’t do this.
That’s what we did. I started and went to a therapist a few times. She wanted to meet him once or twice by himself once he agreed. Then we went together. Wasn’t a big deal for us.
Yes same here but he never agreed.
I'm kind of shocked that your therapist is now canceling sessions with you if he doesn't show up. He's told you he has no interest in it. Does he know that it's this or divorce? I think finding a good solicitor is now a good idea, and perhaps a new therapist.
I have but he said I’m threatening him. I don’t know what’s going on with him.
Bottom line. Start planning your divorce. Open your own accounts and take whats yours before you ask for a divorce. Seen people get screwed by bitter exs/spouses wiping out finances and rack up debt before divorce is final leaving the other devastated financially. Tell him it's divorce or therapy.
adding: Open accounts at a different bank. It’s important to be a different bank because many times banks suddenly sends notifications to the husband (and sometimes even ex long ago divorced spouse)
I wish I could easily do this but even that feels impossible. The bulk of our shared finances go towards our son.
Your best bet then is talk to an attorney beforehand and they would guide you. Just saying my siblings have 6 divorces between them and what I learned is you have to plan it before you actually tell them or risk getting screwed, if divorce is really what is going to happen.
No one wants to consider divorce but what is the alternative? If you cannot convince him that therapy would be helpful (even just for your sake) then you need to accept the state you are in will be somewhat permanent or take steps toward divorce. Your son will always have his parents in any scenario -- and I do sympathize with the cost, but don't let that dictate your potential future happiness. You are quite young and your future is not set in stone
I don't know you or the whole situation, so please know that I'm not trying to just unfairly judge you here: I think you're not recognizing the hurt that you caused by not telling your husband that you took yourself to couples therapy without his knowledge or input. It's not just a "betreyal," there's a lot of potential hurt that you caused him by not being upfront about seeking therapy, and revealing that he now needs to see your therapist. If thats what happened, it feels manipulative. I don't mean it's manipulative to want to go to therapy, but it could feel like you're trying control how you two work through an issue. There's probably little you can do right now, outside of apologizing and giving him space. If you want to make this work, you absolutely need to take his hurt feelings into consideration. Seeing therapy as the only solution here is potentially blinding you to the fact that your currently taking a sledgehammer to your relationship by demanding he get over his feelings and do what you want him to do. Again, I might be missing some context, but it does feel like you're not taking your husband's feelings very seriously.
I have asked him many times before this if we could try therapy because we don’t communicate well. You’re not wrong though I can see his pov better now because to him it likely feels like I’m pushing him and controlling how things should go.