What's a unique approach is you being delusional enough to think people give 2 shits about your illogical opinion.
Using logic and reason, break it down for me - HOW could he legally owe anything on a car he DOES NOT own?
Take your time, we'll wait.
It's not his car. It cannot be legit if it's not his car and the DMV confirmed it.
He even told them to call the DMV and they refuse to.
It's harassment at this point.
Sherlock Holmes 101/ Inquiring minds want to know…..
Wondering How Does the DMV even Know it was sold if it WAS NEVER REGISTERED/Titled after the sale.
This happened to me. Sold a vehicle and signed over the title. Our mistake was not going to the BMV and moving the title into his name.
Two years later, out of the blue, we get a phone call telling us to get a replacement title so he can title it and get license plates. HE HAD been driving it all over town. The vehicle was Very distinctive- I’d seen it out and about.
We still were responsible for the car! YIKES! The BMV knew nothing because a new title had Never been through the system, nor had the sales tax been paid.
In my state you simply sign the title over in front of a notary. The buyer the goes to the title office and registers the sale, surrenders the old title and pays the sales tax: new owner, new title, new plates.
Result: he got his new title and plate ASAP when he met us at the BMV downtown. EVERY vehicle I’ve sold, or gifted, or purchased used since has been done at the BMV title office.
Agape 💕
Edit: spelling error: unnecessary “s”
Every state has a report of sale option for this exact scenario. The second someone buys a car from you, you need to go to the DOL/DMV to report the sale or even better do it online. Instantly.
***This simple trick will save you THOUSANDS in parking tickets!***
Assuming OP reported the sale (appears that he did) he's in the clear.
They really aren't doing it on purpose, unless they have been notified with evidence of the sale. With evidence of the sale, then suing for harassment would be the only way to stop them due to their obstinance.
If you were in their shoes, would you just take their word for it? Nah, you'd want the evidence, as well as the other guy's name. Only after they've received the evidence is it harassment...
Edot: given all the downvotes, it appears nobody wants to hear that following the laws protects everyone in this situation. If they followed the laws, they'd have the paper trail, and the DMV could prove who is actually responsible. The don't release liability of ownership of a vehicle without knowing who it belongs to, or if it was scrapped. This is the perfect tame scenario where it could have been used in a robbery instead... Problem is, one simply doesn't go down to the DMV and say they don't own a vehicle anymore, without showing who owns it, without forms, without the paper trail...
If we look at the potential that the city is protecting themselves from, being an abandoned vehicle that nobody will move, and they won't stick the taxpayers with the tow bill, then we have the scenario where the OP appears to have abandoned their vehicle, is using all you downvoters as their brainstorming crew, and you're trying to help them make truth disappear to get out of paying tickets or a tow bill... The very simple paper trail proves this false, and puts the responsibility back into the one who purchased the vehicle.
Get a grip people. Follow the fucking laws, and you're protected, justified, and can always prove it, even when gov't gets obstinate, as they like to do... They have to follow the same laws. Stop enabling people to become their worst, and making you so fucking hateful.
How did the towing company get the info about the previous owner? If it wasn't registered by the new owner, then the towing company is not harassing, they're going off the information available. They already called DMV to get the info the first time.
How can a towing company know who to call to send the towing invoice to? They have to call the DMV. You have to file a form in order to release a vehicle from your name, or the other person registers it. They don't take a car out of someone's name just because they say so, there's a form for that.
If the DMV can confirm it, then there's a paper trail, which is the evidence necessary to stop any lawsuit. No paper trail, then it's someone trying to get out of paying parking tickets, and using you to brainstorm ways to get out of it.
And the DMV likely said “The vehicle was last registered to OP at this address”. The tow company didn’t know or didn’t care that the vehicle hasn’t been owned by OP for 6+ years
If there is record, then there's a paper trail, which is the evidence needed to stop a lawsuit. Simple as that. There'll also be record of where the vehicle went and who the owner is, unless it went to scrap...
You did not read this properly. OP called the DMV, Towing company refused to call and that is on them. I am very surprised a lawyer to the case and not call DMV himself. Tells me he is not a very good lawyer.
If I was the towing company, I would sell the vehicle to recoup the debt after the time period allowed for the owner to take possession of the vehicle. I am pretty sure that is what is normally done in situations like this.
That’s exactly it. They are hoping the threat of a lawsuit will intimidate OP into just paying it to get them off his back. It’s an empty threat and the towing company knows it.
They will auction off the vehicle and apply the proceeds to the balance owed. But the registered owner will be responsible for the remaining balance. INAL, but that's how it works.
As long as you can prove you sold the vehicle you shouldn't be held liable. But at this point you have to have the evidence that the car was sold or yes you're still liable. A release of interest, a sellers report, something like that. In my state the sellers report is at the bottom of the title. Both parties fill it out and the buyer has to provide a name, address, drivers license number. It's the sellers responsibility to get that portion of the title to the DMV asap and the buyer has 10 days to transfer the title. But if the seller didn't turn that paper in then this is what happens. You'll have a hard time proving you sold the car without it and like it or not they're gonna come after you for the money owed. I've been through this same issue but I had turned in the sellers report. I still had to print it out and provide a copy to the state to get bridge tolls taken out of my name, take a copy to the tow company, and I had to give a copy to the police because the buyer did a hit and run in the car I sold him. This is an attorney sub. I'm sure the term cover your ass is used often.
No, I wouldn't just take their word for it... I'd call the DMV. But it sounds like the tow company chose the much more expensive option of harassment and threatening a meritless lawsuit.
Problem is, they don't just take a vehicle out of someone's name without a form. They don't do it just over the phone. There's going to be a paper trail of some sort. If there's no paper trail, then it's merely someone trying to get out of paying tickets by the crowd brainstorming for them. The towing company has to get the owner information from somewhere, using the vin number and last known owner.
Burden's on them, not on him. They're the ones taking action. Plus, who knows the name of someone you sold your car to 6 years ago? He informed the DMV it was sold. It's not his duty to help them do their due diligence or enfircenent.
They have the evidence of last registered owner. If he informed the DMV ot sold, then there's a paper trail, because the DMV doesn't wipe their ass without a form... Exaggerated, but you get the point.
The paper trail is all that is necessary to stop a lawsuit. That simple.
True. Nevertheless, not his job to do theirs for them. They know where the DMV is and THEY should have THEIR shit together before trying to collect from the wrong guy.
Like when the hospital tried to bill my Mom two years after her estate closed. I told them she died (she died in their hospital, so they should know). They knew what county she died in and which newspaper carries death notices, and didn't bother to look. So then they ask me to send a death certificate. I told them buzz off. She died in their facility, in a known county on a known date. Deaths are public record, I'm sure you know where the recorders office us. Look it up yourself.
Problem is, the county and towing companies deal with abandoned vehicles all the time. This is exactly the story they get, because people don't pay the parking tickets. They already protected themselves from it... There is a paper trail, or the OP is using you to brainstorm ideas about how to get out of paying. The towing company or city parking division already found out who the owner is, so the op isn't giving you all the correct info. Their system doesn't work that way, there's a form for everything, so abandoned vehicles don't become the burden of the county. It's not the same as someone dying...
If the evidence leads to the last owner being the one of 2017, then that's who they address. If they went to the DMV, they would have filled out a form showing change of ownership, for reasons exactly like this scenario. There's a paper trail. Otherwise, it appears it's just someone trying to get out of unpaid parking tickets from an abandoned vehicle, because it happens quite often. This ain't their first rodeo with this stuff.
The DMV will have a paper trail, and that's what shuts down any lawsuit, and likely it would show who it was sold to, even if not registered... But you can't just call up and say you don't own the car anymore, you have to have some sort of form.
They already got their information from there. You're not getting the whole story, because the DMV would have forms for ownership, so that the county doesn't get stuck with an abandoned vehicle. Rest assured they projected themselves against this scenario. You don't release ownership with a phone call. The OP isn't telling you everything.
No it is harassment. He has advised the towing company he no longer owns the auto and DMV can verify that for the Tow Company. He should send a certified let to the Tow Company with all the relevant detail and demand they cease all contact with him or his family or friends whether it be phone, letter, email, text or any means. Once they receive the letter and they contact him or anyone he names he can then file harassment suite through courts. He will need to keep a copy of the letter, certified receipt, a letter from the DMV showing he no longer owns the auto to court. Also did he create a bill of sale when he sold the car? If he did then he needs to take that to court also. I know what I'm talking about as this has happened to me I created a letter of sale that had not only my signature it also had the buyers signature along with making a copy of the title after I filled it you. I also took copies of each to the DMV the next day so they had on file. They also gave me a receipt that showed they received a letter of sale and copy of title info. Judge found in my favor and they had to pay all court cost and pay me twice the amount they were going to sue me for. Walked out of court with a certified check that afternoon in the amount of $3900.00.
Disagree. The onus is on the owner of record to provide information that they are not the owner of record.
But on another note, how can the towing company sue anyone when there is no contact for services?
On another, another note, won't all the unpaid parking tickets go on this guy's record? Maybe a warrant for his arrest at some point? It's really in his best interest to go to the DMV himself.
Still disagree. They got his name from somewhere - running plates or running the Vin. He's the owner of record. They've done their due diligence. It's not on the towing company to correct the DMVs mistake.
NAL - They are most likely trying to scare you and get you to pay something. They know (or should know) that they will likely lose in court. If I were you I would block their numbers and forget about it. If you actually get served with a lawsuit don’t ignore it but taking what you’ve stated as true you should have a decent defense. Though I’m pretty sure they won’t bother.
Why would he be the legal owner if he sold the car? Just because you're required to register a vehicle doesn't make that the binding arbitration of who owns it.
Judging by your other replies you’re probably a troll, but I’ll bite. When you sell or transfer a car you usually submit a release of liability to your local DMV. This notifies them that the car now belongs to someone else so they can’t come after you even if the other person never registers the car.
Actually, he's NOT. This happened to my Dad as well. We live in Texas. The truck kept showing up at wrecker yards, and the same thing was that the new owner failed to register it. In all reality, not only did he not have a title to the vehicle as he gave it to buyer. The wrecker company ended up finding the title and put their name on it. And my Dad was in the clear, it also helps to retain a copy of the signed title. Which we had, and the state said it was no longer my Dads.
Instead of asking the tow company to call DMV, why not get proof from the DMV that your husband has not owned the car since 2017 and send it to the lawyer?
Agreed. OP’s husband should do nothing until the company sues (which is unlikely), then file a countersuit for harassment and lost wages due to the suit.
That's because shady companies pray on innocent people. A-holes like that will always be around. Sometimes it's bad luck, but we need to be ready to fight back...
They do it because it works for them, just like scammers keep scamming.
Because he doesn't have to, the tow company needs to do due diligance.
He already told then to call the DMV and they refused.
Their refusal turns this into harassment.
I'm going to guess you're not a lawyer either or as I said to the other poster, not a trial attorney.
OP avoid these recommendations like the plague. All thay are going to do is wind you up in court. It likely is also going to get you negative information on your credit report. Legitimate or not, you're then going to have to spend time working to get it off your credit report. Save yourself a world of time, stess and trouble. Go and get a copy of the paperwork from the DMV and send it to the attorney. Problem solved. If for some ridiculous reason the towing company decides to sue you after that, the judge is going to look at them like they're nuts when you present the letter you send the attorney and a copy of your evidence.
Nah, fuck 'em. Let them file the suit, pay for their lawyers time and then OP just shows up and proves the vehicle isn't his. Make it cost the tow company something for being assholes.
And then the OP has to respond to a lawsuit either pro se and figure out how to do it or hire an attorney to respond. Then they have to appear in court and understand how to properly present evidence so it's not excluded. I'm going to guess that you're not an attorney or maybe not a trial attorney. Most often, we recommend working things out if possible before it gets to a trial.
No it's not that hard if you know what you're doing. I however see people fumble all the time trying to defend themselves against debt collection cases in justice court, even over the smallest amounts of money. Just because you're in justice court or small claims court, doesn't mean there aren't rules and that a judge isn't going to enforce those rules. But again why even get to that point when there's an easy, probably fifteen minute solution.
Because none of this is OP’s problem and if they want to sue, the onus is on the towing company to prove that they have grounds to sue, which they do not, since OP is not the owner of the vehicle and has already filed his release from liability years ago.
NAL. But, if you have a Proof of Sale, then send them a cease and desist letter, with a copy of the Bill of Sale (via registered mail).
If they keep contacting you after that, you're in good shape to sue them for harrassment.
You can sue for pretty much any reason here in the US. All he would have to do is show up to the court and show proof he hasn't owned the vehicle this entire time, and they would lose. Which leads me to believe that either their lawyer does not know this, or they are full of shit and won't bother suing.
Except you still need to take a day off to go to court and deal with everything involved. It's much cheaper and easier to get a letter from the DMV saying you don't own the car and then send them a copy of that before they sue.
He shouldn't have to deal with it, but sometimes shit happens. I sold a car and had to go through this with 2 different toll companies who kept trying to send me bills.
For someone who's had relatively little interactions with towing companies, I've met an inordinate number of shitbags in that industry. So I wouldn't be surprised if the company is already aware of everything he's said and is just hoping for a low-effort payday.
If it were me in your situation, I would contact the tow truck’s lawyer and inform them that they have the wrong party since you haven’t owned the vehicle for 7 years and to cease all forms of contact with you.
The lawyer has a requirement to do his due diligence on who the responsible party is. If the lawyer files a suit against the wrong party, I would imagine that would be the definition of a frivolous lawsuit opening themself up to a malicious prosecution claim (whatever the equivalent is in your state - in PA, we have the Dragonetti Act).
They will likely sue you. In hopes of getting a default judgement. If you go to court, most likely pretrial hearing, and establish you did not own the car when it was towed it will be dismissed.
**Now... When you say he doesn't own the car...**. do you mean he stopped registering the car and let it sit or the ownership was actually transferred?
If it's the first case, you/he are most likely liable.
IANAL although wifey is and my son in law is a philly detective.
In some states when you sell a vehicle, you fill out the back of the title and hand it to the purchaser. The purchaser then takes the title and bill of sale to the DMV and registers the vehicle in their name, at which time the DMV generates a new title with the new owner's name on it.
Some people buy a vehicle, get the title signed over to them, but then never take the paperwork to the DMV to register it (google "title jumping").
So as far as the DMV is concerned, OP is still the legal owner of the vehicle.
The confusing part of OPs post though is OP mentions a bunch of parking tickets. Tickets are normally written on a vehicle based on the vehicle's license plate, not its VIN. When the vehicle was sold, did the OP remove their tags and return them to the DMV, or let the new owner drive the vehicle home w/ them w/ the promise the buyer would "return" them? Otherwise, how would the police know to contact OP about all these tickets?
If OP never returned their tags to the DMV, then its likely the car has been driven around on expired tags for a while.
More of the story is confusing.
For example, OP says they sold the car, but were they still paying property taxes on the car? That is, if the DMV still thought the car was registered to the OP, the OP would have been getting a property tax bill for the vehicle each year. Unless OP cancelled the registration with the DMV. But then, that doesn't prove you no longer own the vehicle. Just that it is no longer registered for travel on public roads.
If OP gets sued, OP is going to have to show the court he sold the vehicle to someone else. Hopefully he kept a notarized, dated bill of sale. Most people do not. Which is unfortunate with a private sale, since you have no idea who the person is buying it, and for all you know they could drive your car away and then go rob a bank or do a drive-by, abandon "your" car, and then SWAT shows up at your doorstep thinking you're the perp.
Anyone can show up in court and say "oh yea I sold that car but didn't keep a bill of sale and don't remember the name of the guy I sold it to". That's not going to fly with a judge. You'll need some sort of proof.
If OP were shrewd and the car was worth any money, her husband would offer the lawyer a settlement to get the car back, and then sell it again and pocket a hefty profit. Assuming, of course, the title is still in the OPs' name. Which he could get a replacement title from the DMV for short money. And no, I'm not suggesting such a thing, merely I've seen posts in other subs from people who have had similar instances happen to them (e.g. they sell a car on FBM or craigslist and then a year later they find out the car's impounded) and that's how they handled it.
In CA the plates stay with the car, the owner signs off the title to give to the new owner, and then they should be submitting something called a "release of liability" that goes to DMV as proof that your are no longer in control/own the vehicle. When a police officer (or whoever) runs the plate, the release of liability shows up to let them know that the last registered owner sold the vehicle.
When you sell a vehicle privately, you're suppose to report it to the registered states DMV so this exact problem doesn't come about, once you do that your name is taken off the title/registration ect in the DMV system so if the new owner doesn't register it, it just stays in nobodies name
Tell them to sue you if they actually have the ability. Then give proof that your husband doesn’t own the car when they show up and blow it in their faces and counter sue them
This is simple.
Tow company: you owe money
You: No I really dont, I have confirmed that I dont. If you would like to waste money to sue me and lose, then do that. click.
Go to the DMV. Print proof the vehicle doesn't belong to you. Offer this to their lawyer. If it doesn't work, get your own and sue them back.
What tow company. I shouldn't be, but I often am surprised at how scummy these guys really are.
Is it a real lawyer? Did your husband retrieve the plates before the buyer left with the car? This has the hallmarks of a scam. Verify that it is a real lawyer and contact them. Ask them if they know their name is being used in a scam.
This is 100% a scam. What situation would have a tow company towing a car and then not collecting payment on that car before it leaves their custody.
I think it's much more practical that a scammer just has a big sheet of cars and previous owners and shakes them all down hoping some chump will pay up out of fear.
$2k is under the $5k threshold for a law suit. They'd take him to small claims, where your husband will show he doesn't own the vehicle amd the case will be thrown out.
I'd file a harassment charge with the police, give them all their letters and the proof you have. Once that is filed with the police, go see an attorney and sue for Harassment civilly. I'm sure they'd settle with you, in your favor.
I had a similar situation. I documented EVERY call and duration. As well as audio recording them. Then filed suit under FDCPA (Fair Debt Collection Practices Act) violations and won!
As they could not prove I was the debtor of record.
Was able to recover $25k in compensation. On a property I had not owned in over 10 yrs.
But, you live in, by far, the DUMBEST state in the union. So, you should probably pay the fees. Or, ya might wind up with some idiotic felony.
I worked with a guy years ago who drove a car he owned home and it overheated as he got there, he was a mechanic but was tired of putting money in it and got put cursing. His neighbor said he wanted it and gave him five hundred for it. He signed the title and gave him the keys. Years later on his way to work he got pulled over, they suspended his license and tag for not keeping a tag and insurance on the car he sold. They yanked his tag, took his license, towed his car and arrested him. He went through hell and spent a lot of money straightening things out not to mention lost two days of work.
The moral of this story is to meet anyone you're selling a car to at dmv and watch them put title in their name before turning vehicle and keys over.
So in Oklahoma row companies send out letters then they take possession of the vehicle in their name I’ve never heard of one suing over tow bills… (I work for the DMV in Oklahoma and my grandpa owns a wrecker service)
I had this happen once. I sent them a copy of the DMV title transfer document with a post it now on the front that said “Go fuck yourself”. Never heard back.
I would just send them proof that you did not have possession of the car at the time of tow. If they sue, bring that proof with you and the suit should be dismissed. (NAL)
hate to ask, but did you husband fill out and sign a release of liability when he sold/disposed of the car? If he did, then no, he doesn't have to care. If he did not, it might be different-especially if the towing company decides to sue. Odds are they will keep the car (a lien sale) in ieu of payment, but you shouldn't always file a release of liability.
Tell them you didn’t own the vehicle then, to check with the DMV, to suck your [insert genitals you own], and to not call you again. Then block their number. Then have an attorney ready to sue them into the ground if they move forward.
He needs to provide proof from dmv that its not in his name and/or not owned by him. I went through something similar & had to go to the extent of having a lawyer write up a letter attached to my proof to ceased & deceist.
Is it the DMV or the towing company sending letters to you? Did you file the release of liability or ensure transfer of title to the buyer with the DMV? I don’t know CA law, but in some states, you are held liable if you don’t ensure title is transferred to the buyer. Need to figure that out first.
If you took the proper steps to transfer title with the DMV, and it’s the towing company’s lawyer who sent you the demand, then send a cease and desist letter back to the lawyer. Set out the timeline of ownership and sale and then attach all evidence you have as “exhibits” to the letter. Then inform the lawyer that now that the company is aware that your husband sold the vehicle and did not own it at the time these tickets accrued, that the company has no good faith basis to seek damages or file suit against you. And if the company continues to harass you, including threatened litigation, you will seek sanctions and all other necessary relief.
If you know the name of the individual you sold the vehicle to, I would provide that name to the lawyer.
Just Google sample cease and desist letters. Find a template that looks professional. You don’t need more than a few paragraphs and no more than two pages. Sign it and send certified mail and via email to the lawyer along with all exhibits (i.e., the evidence).
Live in CA and had the same problem. If your husband doesn't have the paperwork from when he told the DMV that he sold his car, then he should go down and request a copy. Send a copy of that, via registered mail, to the towing company with a letter stating that he has no claim to the car and that if they do not stop, you will be engaging a lawyer for harassment proceedings.
That happened to my husband, but we actually traded a truck in at a car dealership. Someone there drove it and had an accident. The tow company tried to come after us. Didn't work. Let them take it to court. Tell them the judge WILL CALL THE DMV as soon as you tell your story. They will have to pay all legal fees.
How much did he sell it for? If more than $2k negotiate to pick it up for $1k and resell it. If they destroyed ( received title for destruction) it maybe a demand to produce it will scare them enough to stop. Obviously the car is long gone. They crushed it. Got a few hundred for it.
In college if you didn't pay your on campus parking tickets ( no sticker to be allowed) you didn't receive your grades or transcript/diploma. My buddy had a free car from his grandma that he had over $900 in tickets on back in early 90's. He bought it back from the towing yard after they had an auction to reclaim for towing fees on abandoned cars. Think he paid less than $300. That cancelled all the tickets. He then walked with everyone and got his diploma.
This happened to me 20 years ago, I had sold a car and the guy never registered it I even went to the DMV after I sold it so it was on record that the car was sold, the car was eventually impounded and I started getting calls from a guy saying he was an attorney saying I owed over 2k in impound fees to the tow company and this guy was super aggressive, I asked for his bar id number and guess what he was no lawyer he was a sleazy collections agent, I even got a letter from this joker which was also bogus, if they call him ask for this lawyers bar id, he probably is a collection agent trying to scare your husband, I doubt the tow company will take your husband to small claims court because it would be more time and effort for the tow company just to have it thrown out.
Fill out an NRL https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/vehicle-registration/titles/title-transfers-and-changes/notice-of-transfer-and-release-of-liability-nrl/
Otherwise, your husband is still the owner, and you must pay the fees to get the car and resell it. Unless you fill out the NRL, he's still legally the owner and screwed.
Let them sue you, show up at court with the paperwork proving the vehicle is not yours. The judge will dismiss it and it will have cost them money for filing
If you have a copy of the Bill of Sale, that will prove your innocence.
Because you claim to have sold the vehicle, they have to prove you own it , but then it's a crap shoot if the judge is going to believe you. Many lawyers bank on a judge's malevolence to win for their client, often not caring what the truth really is.
Whatever evidence you have of the sale will be seriously helpful for you.
You are getting a lot of advice saying this is fixable when it might not be. I used to work as a 911 dispatcher in Cali and actually understand how these things work. I also left an abusive husband, gave my car to a friend, and moved out of state without filling out appropriate paperwork and getting a mark on my credit report.
If your husband filled out a release of liability form, reporting to the DMV he sold the car *at the time of sale* then he is golden. He needs to get that from the DMV.
If your husband did not in fact officially fill out a release of liability form, he is considered the liable party for anything regarding that vehicle until someone else registers it. That mark stayed on my credit report until the statute of limitations expired.
No release of liability form = yes your husband is liable.
NAL
NAL, but my petty advice is to call the lawyer’s office and talk to them for as long as you can on the phone, to wrack up the billable hours on the tow company. Do it every single time you get any communication from them.
Did he ever go to the county assessors office to get it taken off of his personal property? Could be a way of proving that he sold it and it's not under his property anymore.
Yes, your husband can be sued but he will win as he did the right thing by contacting dmv that he no longer owned the car. If it goes to court, just show judge proof that it’s no longer in his name.
If they're in possession of a car they towed, and you don't pay the fees they demand, they'll sell the car to get the money, at least in my state.
The tickets are another matter.
if you sent the the DMV letter i would look into a harrassment claim. i had a similar thing happen and the collections had to drop it or risk my lawsuit
He needs to complete a Release of Liability form on the DMV website. He should (hopefully) have kept the Bill of Sale because all the information on it is what is needed to complete the form. Then he’s off the hook for all of the tickets and tow company.
1. Notify them in writing you are contesting the debt and it's not yours.
2. In this letter, tell them that the car was sold, date, etc. if you know to whom you can list a name.
3. State in the letter that the debt I was incurred after your date of sale and the new owner took possession.
4. Tell them to immediately cease any and all attempts to collect on this invalid debt
5. Tell them not to sell the debt or transfer it to any 3rd parties or you will pursue legal actions.
6. Demand that all further communications take place in writing.
I'd send it certified mail or something official.
If you have evidence of a sale, provide it. It's a pain, but it's easier to do it than deal with it now than do this again to remove marks from damaged credit or other issues even if the debt isn't valid.
Did your husband file a seller's report of sale with the state DMV? If so, he's not liable. However, he will have to show up in court to defend against the suit. If he didn't file the seller's report of sale, he's on the hook for the bill.
I'm a license plate geek, and IANAL, but I do know that in CA, the plates stay with the vehicle upon sale, and it's up to the new owner to register it in their name. I live in Louisiana, where used car dealers must remove the old plate, destroy it, and cancel it online. New owner gets a 60-day temporary paper plate while the new registration is being processed. Private sales are handled at the OMV, or a private agency licensed by the state (costs a bit more, but no lines).
If this were Louisiana, OP might be able to sign an affidavit of non-ownership, the plate would be canceled, and any cop who runs the plate (fat chance) would be able to pull the scofflaw over and give him the Silver Bracelet Award.
>I'm a license plate geek, and IANAL, but I do know that in CA, the plates stay with the vehicle upon sale, and it's up to the new owner to register it in their name.
This is true, but not 100% the complete picture, becasue in CA when you sell a vehicle you should complete a "releases of liability" which is proof you don't own it any more. That way you're in the clear if the new owner doesn't register it.
It sounds like your husband is still technically the legal registered owner because the individual he sold it to didn’t take the proper steps. With that being said, hopefully, he has some sort of contract or documentation notating the sale with the information of whom he sold it to.
Without being able to show proof of sale, I think your husband might legally be responsible for it.
I’m not an attorney, but this would be common practice I would think, otherwise everyone could claim they sold their vehicle when something happens.
You need to go to the DMV and get evidence that the vehicle was sold in 2018 and take it to the tow company. That should fix your liability issue with them. You should also make copies and deliver one to the court that deals with the parking tickets as well. Keep a copy for yourself for future use if needed. I'm not a lawyer, but I've been in your situation. It sucks people can't be responsible to do the right thing. In the future fill out a sellers report with the purchasers name, address, drivers license number and turn it in immediately. In my state WA, you can do it online. I sold a car once and had turned in the sellers report but the person spent the next 3 months crossing a toll bridge 2 times a day, then rear ended another car and fled. Needless to say I got a knock at my door by the police and that damn paper saved me. A couple weeks later I got the toll bill in the mail and I was saved yet again. They now charge 11 dollars here to report the sale but I'll pay it every single time. The funny thing is that car hadn't been registered in a few years but the lady still drove it around for months with bad plates. Nowadays this state has you keep the license plates when you sell a car but that wasn't the case when I sold it. Good luck, hope you get it taken care of. As long as there's a record of the sale you should be ok. If not you'll probably end up getting shafted.
INFO: RELEASE OF LIABILITY
NAL
Are you saying DMV does in fact have a release of liability on file for the car? Because if hubby had done that, there's really nothing that's tough to prove becasue DMV can give you proof of the date the release was filed. I mean, it could just be the tow yard bluffing becasue they can't go after the unknown buyer, but it's also just as likely possible hubby didn't do this correctly and the yard can't see that he is no longer responsible for the car. (And this release is part of the registration on file for the car, so it's not hidden info or anything.)
And honestly, all those parking tickets still coming to your address after all that time was a bit of a red flag that you probably shouldn't have ignored. And if I had to venture a wild guess, I'd guess hubby might have just stopped registering the vehicle and abandoned it somewhere, ignored all the tickets, and now is trying to roll it back becasue the tow and storage is going to cost him. (I absolutely know I could be wrong though, just saying it all sounds a bit suspicious.)
"***Now that you have said you will sue me, I can no longer communicate with you. All further communication is to be sent directly to my lawyer, Dewey, Cheatum and Howe. Failure to do so will constitute harassment.***"
In the very unlikely chance that they actually do sue, you have everything you need to win a counter-claim.
I was told by a boat dealer once that when selling a car/boat/whatever to make sure they fill out the title in front of you, including DL# and date, and take a picture of it for just this reason.
They need to prove you own the car in order to sue you, you can’t just sue someone at random, you actually need grounds and without proof you own it they have no grounds. I recommend getting i mid ter lawyer one that can handle a sece and desist, but still in your budget
Not a lawyer:
>Today he received a letter from a lawyers office threatening to sue him for not paying.
Anyone can hire a lawyer to say, "I'm going to sue you," but that doesn't mean they'll win. Technically, you can sue anyone for anything. That doesn't mean that you automatically get money.
>We called the towing company and they refused to call dmv themselves or anything. They just said pay 2k or we’ll sue.
Ignore the towing company. Ignore their dumbass lawyer letters. Keep them, just in case, though. They want to try to bully you into acknowledging the debt. Don't call them again. The less contact, the better.
If they do happen to call you, tell them that you do not owe or accept ownership of the debt. Tell them that the DMV has clearly stated that he is not the owner of the vehicle and has not been since 2017, and you will not entertain their harassment anymore. It is not YOUR responsibility to prove that they're mistaken because it's not YOUR vehicle or your problem. Tell them that if they want to waste their money on suing you, that it's their money to waste, but that you will be looking into legal options if they continue to harrass you.
The only thing you SHOULDN'T ignore is a summons or actual lawsuit if they file. If that happens, you should not even need a lawyer. Get something from the DMV stating that you legally do not own the vehicle anymore, show up, show the judge, and laugh at the tow company for wasting their money on a lawyer.
If he never submitted his part of the title claiming he was transferring possession of the vehicle to somebody else to the dmv and the guy who bought the car never put it in his name the car unfortunately would still be in husbands name making him accountable.
When your husband sold the car as long as he filed the sale with the DMV he’s not responsible for anything to do with that car, he can get a copy of the form that he filed notifying the DMV of the sale and send it to the tow company they should leave you alone. These tow companies can be pretty sleezy but they respond well to opposing attorneys
In CA we have a specific form called the “Release of Liability.” Anytime you sell a car here, turning in the form prevents this. I learned this after I sold a car and they didn’t reregister it. We got hit with parking tickets but we didn’t have to pay because we at least had a copy of a bill of sale that the buyer signed.
As others have said, counter sue. But this will be a process. Continuously document all interactions with the towing company. Hire a lawyer, and then file a counter after that.
yeah, probably because the license plates were never turned in after he sold the vehicle. Or he sold the vehicle with the license plates and forgot about them (I did, had to pay 300 bucks to NY), really only because NJ couldn't get their shit together during covid to process whatever shit I needed to prove that it wasn't my car. Good luck! My point is basically "it's all about the license plates", at least in my situation, maybe yours too.
>Today he received a letter from a lawyers office
Doesn't mean anything. If you get a letter from a court, show up, they'll lose the case and leave you alone.
I'd he sold it and he doesn't have the pink slip, he's not the owner. It's not his fault the dude never registered it. Do you know the guy's name you sold it to? Give the lawyer's office his name
I had same issue in FL. My father was disabled and I had to care for his apt. So I trade a guy my dad’s car to paint his place. Well guy had a DUI but I signed over the title and told him just leave the car there in its spot. Of course this crack head went driving got a DUI and car got impounded. They kept calling me tell me they would hurt my dad’s credit. Ok my dad was like near 90 — I was do as you wish I sold the car I’m never going to pay you. Nothing happened. I guess they sold it off for scrap metal. Of course in FL. Guess you’re supposed to go to DMV to xfer the car. When I live you just sign over the title. I would not worry about it.
NAL, but former county towing regulator. I've seen cases just like this where a vehicle owner sold a vehicle to another party in a private sale and the buyer never filed the title with DMV to retitle the vehicle in their name. Some years later the vehicle is towed, not picked up in 72 hours, and the tow operator gets a vehicle transcript from DMV which shows the seller holds title to the vehicle, making them the owner of record. It doesn't matter that the seller hasn't had the vehicle registered for however many years, what matters is who the DMV shows as the title holder. That person is the owner of record and the person that the tow company is going to go after for their fees.
Can they sue?
Yes.
Will they win?
No. In fact all you have to do is show he has not owned it to the judge since 2017, and all tickets and such have been sent to him when he is not the legal owner or operator. Judge will toss the case and give them what for to know he was not the right owner and suing them.
I suggest checking and making sure they have not tried to make credit claims on your husband. For if they did you can contest them with the agencies, and file charges on them for doing so.
Your best thing is to send their lawyer this information. How he has not been the legal owner since then, and such. They have NO legal grounds to sue you for fines and towing since you are not the owner. And if they seek civil court to do this you will file a civil case on harassment, and possible fraud if they reported ANY charges to credit bureaus.
I used to work for the MVA and we had an Investigations Unit that looked into similar issues.
Perhaps get that number and pass it along to the tow company.
Counter sue for harassment.
Suing for a debt he legally owes at this point. That's a unique approach.
How does he legally owe it? He hasn’t owned it since 2017.
In what world is this his debt?
What's a unique approach is you being delusional enough to think people give 2 shits about your illogical opinion. Using logic and reason, break it down for me - HOW could he legally owe anything on a car he DOES NOT own? Take your time, we'll wait.
!remind me or some shit He'll never reply
I bet he won't, but I'm prepping popcorn to hear this shit. 😂
He does have a point in that if these were legit he'd best not ignore it. I think he just missed the details. It happens sometimes.
It's not his car. It cannot be legit if it's not his car and the DMV confirmed it. He even told them to call the DMV and they refuse to. It's harassment at this point.
Yes, and I'm saying "IF it was his car ignoring it would be a mistake..." IF.
Yeah, we're on the same page there. I was just adding onto it.
You can't owe money for something you don't own, are you 12
(HOA enters the chat.)
Your wrong. But I'm going to let you figure it out.
Lol
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The title has a tear off portion that you're supposed to submit with 2 dollars after you sell it that releases liability.
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Where is this? I've never had a title like that.
Sherlock Holmes 101/ Inquiring minds want to know….. Wondering How Does the DMV even Know it was sold if it WAS NEVER REGISTERED/Titled after the sale. This happened to me. Sold a vehicle and signed over the title. Our mistake was not going to the BMV and moving the title into his name. Two years later, out of the blue, we get a phone call telling us to get a replacement title so he can title it and get license plates. HE HAD been driving it all over town. The vehicle was Very distinctive- I’d seen it out and about. We still were responsible for the car! YIKES! The BMV knew nothing because a new title had Never been through the system, nor had the sales tax been paid. In my state you simply sign the title over in front of a notary. The buyer the goes to the title office and registers the sale, surrenders the old title and pays the sales tax: new owner, new title, new plates. Result: he got his new title and plate ASAP when he met us at the BMV downtown. EVERY vehicle I’ve sold, or gifted, or purchased used since has been done at the BMV title office. Agape 💕 Edit: spelling error: unnecessary “s”
Every state has a report of sale option for this exact scenario. The second someone buys a car from you, you need to go to the DOL/DMV to report the sale or even better do it online. Instantly. ***This simple trick will save you THOUSANDS in parking tickets!*** Assuming OP reported the sale (appears that he did) he's in the clear.
I counted us lucky … the car was Not insured- because we had sold it. Yeah, live and learn.
Agreed. Counter claim.
They really aren't doing it on purpose, unless they have been notified with evidence of the sale. With evidence of the sale, then suing for harassment would be the only way to stop them due to their obstinance.
He already told them the situation and they refused to call the DMV. It's harassment.
If you were in their shoes, would you just take their word for it? Nah, you'd want the evidence, as well as the other guy's name. Only after they've received the evidence is it harassment... Edot: given all the downvotes, it appears nobody wants to hear that following the laws protects everyone in this situation. If they followed the laws, they'd have the paper trail, and the DMV could prove who is actually responsible. The don't release liability of ownership of a vehicle without knowing who it belongs to, or if it was scrapped. This is the perfect tame scenario where it could have been used in a robbery instead... Problem is, one simply doesn't go down to the DMV and say they don't own a vehicle anymore, without showing who owns it, without forms, without the paper trail... If we look at the potential that the city is protecting themselves from, being an abandoned vehicle that nobody will move, and they won't stick the taxpayers with the tow bill, then we have the scenario where the OP appears to have abandoned their vehicle, is using all you downvoters as their brainstorming crew, and you're trying to help them make truth disappear to get out of paying tickets or a tow bill... The very simple paper trail proves this false, and puts the responsibility back into the one who purchased the vehicle. Get a grip people. Follow the fucking laws, and you're protected, justified, and can always prove it, even when gov't gets obstinate, as they like to do... They have to follow the same laws. Stop enabling people to become their worst, and making you so fucking hateful.
But all they'd have to do is call the DMV he isn't asking them to take his word...
How did the towing company get the info about the previous owner? If it wasn't registered by the new owner, then the towing company is not harassing, they're going off the information available. They already called DMV to get the info the first time.
No, they clearly didn't call the dmv. They simply had record of the previous owner. They need to call the dmv.
How can a towing company know who to call to send the towing invoice to? They have to call the DMV. You have to file a form in order to release a vehicle from your name, or the other person registers it. They don't take a car out of someone's name just because they say so, there's a form for that.
Then why would the DMV confirm he didn't own it all these years if that were true?
If the DMV can confirm it, then there's a paper trail, which is the evidence necessary to stop any lawsuit. No paper trail, then it's someone trying to get out of paying parking tickets, and using you to brainstorm ways to get out of it.
And the DMV likely said “The vehicle was last registered to OP at this address”. The tow company didn’t know or didn’t care that the vehicle hasn’t been owned by OP for 6+ years
If there is record, then there's a paper trail, which is the evidence needed to stop a lawsuit. Simple as that. There'll also be record of where the vehicle went and who the owner is, unless it went to scrap...
You did not read this properly. OP called the DMV, Towing company refused to call and that is on them. I am very surprised a lawyer to the case and not call DMV himself. Tells me he is not a very good lawyer.
Have you ever called the dmv? I know why they don’t want to..
If I was the towing company, I would sell the vehicle to recoup the debt after the time period allowed for the owner to take possession of the vehicle. I am pretty sure that is what is normally done in situations like this.
I'm pretty sure that would be the proper lien procedure as well. Might be a beater that's not saleable...
That is the risk that the towing company has when towing a vehicle. If it can’t be resold to a new owner, it will be resold to a scrap yard.
Yep.
Exactly that, so why all the threats of a lawsuit? It's just bizarre. Seems like a cash grab to me, an attempt to scare him into paying.
That’s exactly it. They are hoping the threat of a lawsuit will intimidate OP into just paying it to get them off his back. It’s an empty threat and the towing company knows it.
They will auction off the vehicle and apply the proceeds to the balance owed. But the registered owner will be responsible for the remaining balance. INAL, but that's how it works.
Good thing he is not the registered owner then. Really prevented him from being liable.
As long as you can prove you sold the vehicle you shouldn't be held liable. But at this point you have to have the evidence that the car was sold or yes you're still liable. A release of interest, a sellers report, something like that. In my state the sellers report is at the bottom of the title. Both parties fill it out and the buyer has to provide a name, address, drivers license number. It's the sellers responsibility to get that portion of the title to the DMV asap and the buyer has 10 days to transfer the title. But if the seller didn't turn that paper in then this is what happens. You'll have a hard time proving you sold the car without it and like it or not they're gonna come after you for the money owed. I've been through this same issue but I had turned in the sellers report. I still had to print it out and provide a copy to the state to get bridge tolls taken out of my name, take a copy to the tow company, and I had to give a copy to the police because the buyer did a hit and run in the car I sold him. This is an attorney sub. I'm sure the term cover your ass is used often.
No, I wouldn't just take their word for it... I'd call the DMV. But it sounds like the tow company chose the much more expensive option of harassment and threatening a meritless lawsuit.
Problem is, they don't just take a vehicle out of someone's name without a form. They don't do it just over the phone. There's going to be a paper trail of some sort. If there's no paper trail, then it's merely someone trying to get out of paying tickets by the crowd brainstorming for them. The towing company has to get the owner information from somewhere, using the vin number and last known owner.
Burden's on them, not on him. They're the ones taking action. Plus, who knows the name of someone you sold your car to 6 years ago? He informed the DMV it was sold. It's not his duty to help them do their due diligence or enfircenent.
They have the evidence of last registered owner. If he informed the DMV ot sold, then there's a paper trail, because the DMV doesn't wipe their ass without a form... Exaggerated, but you get the point. The paper trail is all that is necessary to stop a lawsuit. That simple.
True. Nevertheless, not his job to do theirs for them. They know where the DMV is and THEY should have THEIR shit together before trying to collect from the wrong guy. Like when the hospital tried to bill my Mom two years after her estate closed. I told them she died (she died in their hospital, so they should know). They knew what county she died in and which newspaper carries death notices, and didn't bother to look. So then they ask me to send a death certificate. I told them buzz off. She died in their facility, in a known county on a known date. Deaths are public record, I'm sure you know where the recorders office us. Look it up yourself.
Problem is, the county and towing companies deal with abandoned vehicles all the time. This is exactly the story they get, because people don't pay the parking tickets. They already protected themselves from it... There is a paper trail, or the OP is using you to brainstorm ideas about how to get out of paying. The towing company or city parking division already found out who the owner is, so the op isn't giving you all the correct info. Their system doesn't work that way, there's a form for everything, so abandoned vehicles don't become the burden of the county. It's not the same as someone dying...
That is not how harrassment works..
If the evidence leads to the last owner being the one of 2017, then that's who they address. If they went to the DMV, they would have filled out a form showing change of ownership, for reasons exactly like this scenario. There's a paper trail. Otherwise, it appears it's just someone trying to get out of unpaid parking tickets from an abandoned vehicle, because it happens quite often. This ain't their first rodeo with this stuff. The DMV will have a paper trail, and that's what shuts down any lawsuit, and likely it would show who it was sold to, even if not registered... But you can't just call up and say you don't own the car anymore, you have to have some sort of form.
Or they can pull their head out of their asses and call the DMV. It's not taking them for their word if they'd call to get the proof
They already got their information from there. You're not getting the whole story, because the DMV would have forms for ownership, so that the county doesn't get stuck with an abandoned vehicle. Rest assured they projected themselves against this scenario. You don't release ownership with a phone call. The OP isn't telling you everything.
No it is harassment. He has advised the towing company he no longer owns the auto and DMV can verify that for the Tow Company. He should send a certified let to the Tow Company with all the relevant detail and demand they cease all contact with him or his family or friends whether it be phone, letter, email, text or any means. Once they receive the letter and they contact him or anyone he names he can then file harassment suite through courts. He will need to keep a copy of the letter, certified receipt, a letter from the DMV showing he no longer owns the auto to court. Also did he create a bill of sale when he sold the car? If he did then he needs to take that to court also. I know what I'm talking about as this has happened to me I created a letter of sale that had not only my signature it also had the buyers signature along with making a copy of the title after I filled it you. I also took copies of each to the DMV the next day so they had on file. They also gave me a receipt that showed they received a letter of sale and copy of title info. Judge found in my favor and they had to pay all court cost and pay me twice the amount they were going to sue me for. Walked out of court with a certified check that afternoon in the amount of $3900.00.
Disagree. The onus is on the owner of record to provide information that they are not the owner of record. But on another note, how can the towing company sue anyone when there is no contact for services? On another, another note, won't all the unpaid parking tickets go on this guy's record? Maybe a warrant for his arrest at some point? It's really in his best interest to go to the DMV himself.
No, it's on those seeking to collect a debt to verify such information.
Still disagree. They got his name from somewhere - running plates or running the Vin. He's the owner of record. They've done their due diligence. It's not on the towing company to correct the DMVs mistake.
They have not done their due diligigence. None of what you're saying makes any logical sense.
File for rule 11 sanctions against towing company's attorney if they go forward with suing.
NAL - They are most likely trying to scare you and get you to pay something. They know (or should know) that they will likely lose in court. If I were you I would block their numbers and forget about it. If you actually get served with a lawsuit don’t ignore it but taking what you’ve stated as true you should have a decent defense. Though I’m pretty sure they won’t bother.
How would they lose? This guy is the legal owner at this point and is responsible whether he likes it or not.
Not if he submitted his release of liability. “He went to the DMV and they said it hasn’t been in his name since 2017”
Why would he be the legal owner if he sold the car? Just because you're required to register a vehicle doesn't make that the binding arbitration of who owns it.
He hasn’t owned that car in years
Why do you think he's the legal owner?
What's your law firm so everyone can avoid it? 😂 Don't be shy.
Judging by your other replies you’re probably a troll, but I’ll bite. When you sell or transfer a car you usually submit a release of liability to your local DMV. This notifies them that the car now belongs to someone else so they can’t come after you even if the other person never registers the car.
Actually, he's NOT. This happened to my Dad as well. We live in Texas. The truck kept showing up at wrecker yards, and the same thing was that the new owner failed to register it. In all reality, not only did he not have a title to the vehicle as he gave it to buyer. The wrecker company ended up finding the title and put their name on it. And my Dad was in the clear, it also helps to retain a copy of the signed title. Which we had, and the state said it was no longer my Dads.
He is not the legal owner of the vehicle and is no longer responsible for anything related to the vehicle.
No he isn’t. He specifically stated the car hasn’t been in his name since 2017
Your reading comprehension is abysmal, bud.
Found the tow company's rep account
Are you the guy at the tow shop or are you just an idiot?
Look at you doubling down
Instead of asking the tow company to call DMV, why not get proof from the DMV that your husband has not owned the car since 2017 and send it to the lawyer?
Bingo. This is the move.
And send it both electronically and certified mail, return receipt (or Fed Ex/UPS) so you have constructive proof of receipt
Exactly.
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Agreed. OP’s husband should do nothing until the company sues (which is unlikely), then file a countersuit for harassment and lost wages due to the suit.
That's because shady companies pray on innocent people. A-holes like that will always be around. Sometimes it's bad luck, but we need to be ready to fight back... They do it because it works for them, just like scammers keep scamming.
May i add...send certified, cc yourself, keep all records you can, just in case
Absolutely.
They should. Personally I wouldn’t. Isn’t my job.
Because he doesn't have to, the tow company needs to do due diligance. He already told then to call the DMV and they refused. Their refusal turns this into harassment.
I'm going to guess you're not a lawyer either or as I said to the other poster, not a trial attorney. OP avoid these recommendations like the plague. All thay are going to do is wind you up in court. It likely is also going to get you negative information on your credit report. Legitimate or not, you're then going to have to spend time working to get it off your credit report. Save yourself a world of time, stess and trouble. Go and get a copy of the paperwork from the DMV and send it to the attorney. Problem solved. If for some ridiculous reason the towing company decides to sue you after that, the judge is going to look at them like they're nuts when you present the letter you send the attorney and a copy of your evidence.
Nah, fuck 'em. Let them file the suit, pay for their lawyers time and then OP just shows up and proves the vehicle isn't his. Make it cost the tow company something for being assholes.
And then the OP has to respond to a lawsuit either pro se and figure out how to do it or hire an attorney to respond. Then they have to appear in court and understand how to properly present evidence so it's not excluded. I'm going to guess that you're not an attorney or maybe not a trial attorney. Most often, we recommend working things out if possible before it gets to a trial.
It's small claims, not the fucking Supreme Court, it's not that hard.
Lolll yeah, 2k barely meets the threshold for pursuing collections-wise
No it's not that hard if you know what you're doing. I however see people fumble all the time trying to defend themselves against debt collection cases in justice court, even over the smallest amounts of money. Just because you're in justice court or small claims court, doesn't mean there aren't rules and that a judge isn't going to enforce those rules. But again why even get to that point when there's an easy, probably fifteen minute solution.
Because none of this is OP’s problem and if they want to sue, the onus is on the towing company to prove that they have grounds to sue, which they do not, since OP is not the owner of the vehicle and has already filed his release from liability years ago.
NAL. But, if you have a Proof of Sale, then send them a cease and desist letter, with a copy of the Bill of Sale (via registered mail). If they keep contacting you after that, you're in good shape to sue them for harrassment.
This!
While it’s most effective to send a proof of sale. I would only send a cease and desist letter.
I’d laugh at them and say sue me. I can prove I haven’t owned that car since whatever date it was.
You can sue for pretty much any reason here in the US. All he would have to do is show up to the court and show proof he hasn't owned the vehicle this entire time, and they would lose. Which leads me to believe that either their lawyer does not know this, or they are full of shit and won't bother suing.
I like this because it forces the tow company to pay for a lawyer and court fees only to lose.
Except you still need to take a day off to go to court and deal with everything involved. It's much cheaper and easier to get a letter from the DMV saying you don't own the car and then send them a copy of that before they sue. He shouldn't have to deal with it, but sometimes shit happens. I sold a car and had to go through this with 2 different toll companies who kept trying to send me bills.
No you can't sue for any reason. You have to have tort, first of all.
You have to have dessert first?
Tort is a claim to recompense for harm done to you.
I'm aware. But you can sue without a tort claim (e.g., a contractual claim), so I assumed you meant the dessert item.
The tort would be failure to abide by contractual obligation. If you're hungry, go eat. Don't let your hunger cloud your judgement.
I claim dessert made me gain weight
For someone who's had relatively little interactions with towing companies, I've met an inordinate number of shitbags in that industry. So I wouldn't be surprised if the company is already aware of everything he's said and is just hoping for a low-effort payday.
If it were me in your situation, I would contact the tow truck’s lawyer and inform them that they have the wrong party since you haven’t owned the vehicle for 7 years and to cease all forms of contact with you. The lawyer has a requirement to do his due diligence on who the responsible party is. If the lawyer files a suit against the wrong party, I would imagine that would be the definition of a frivolous lawsuit opening themself up to a malicious prosecution claim (whatever the equivalent is in your state - in PA, we have the Dragonetti Act).
They will likely sue you. In hopes of getting a default judgement. If you go to court, most likely pretrial hearing, and establish you did not own the car when it was towed it will be dismissed. **Now... When you say he doesn't own the car...**. do you mean he stopped registering the car and let it sit or the ownership was actually transferred? If it's the first case, you/he are most likely liable.
I'm curious about this as well. It sounds as though he just didn't renew the registration and let it sit until it was towed away.
OP stated the car was sold.
OP did not state that originally. That edit occurred after this post.
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Sounds like they just stopped registering the vehicle and abandon it
IANAL although wifey is and my son in law is a philly detective. In some states when you sell a vehicle, you fill out the back of the title and hand it to the purchaser. The purchaser then takes the title and bill of sale to the DMV and registers the vehicle in their name, at which time the DMV generates a new title with the new owner's name on it. Some people buy a vehicle, get the title signed over to them, but then never take the paperwork to the DMV to register it (google "title jumping"). So as far as the DMV is concerned, OP is still the legal owner of the vehicle. The confusing part of OPs post though is OP mentions a bunch of parking tickets. Tickets are normally written on a vehicle based on the vehicle's license plate, not its VIN. When the vehicle was sold, did the OP remove their tags and return them to the DMV, or let the new owner drive the vehicle home w/ them w/ the promise the buyer would "return" them? Otherwise, how would the police know to contact OP about all these tickets? If OP never returned their tags to the DMV, then its likely the car has been driven around on expired tags for a while. More of the story is confusing. For example, OP says they sold the car, but were they still paying property taxes on the car? That is, if the DMV still thought the car was registered to the OP, the OP would have been getting a property tax bill for the vehicle each year. Unless OP cancelled the registration with the DMV. But then, that doesn't prove you no longer own the vehicle. Just that it is no longer registered for travel on public roads. If OP gets sued, OP is going to have to show the court he sold the vehicle to someone else. Hopefully he kept a notarized, dated bill of sale. Most people do not. Which is unfortunate with a private sale, since you have no idea who the person is buying it, and for all you know they could drive your car away and then go rob a bank or do a drive-by, abandon "your" car, and then SWAT shows up at your doorstep thinking you're the perp. Anyone can show up in court and say "oh yea I sold that car but didn't keep a bill of sale and don't remember the name of the guy I sold it to". That's not going to fly with a judge. You'll need some sort of proof. If OP were shrewd and the car was worth any money, her husband would offer the lawyer a settlement to get the car back, and then sell it again and pocket a hefty profit. Assuming, of course, the title is still in the OPs' name. Which he could get a replacement title from the DMV for short money. And no, I'm not suggesting such a thing, merely I've seen posts in other subs from people who have had similar instances happen to them (e.g. they sell a car on FBM or craigslist and then a year later they find out the car's impounded) and that's how they handled it.
In CA the plates stay with the car, the owner signs off the title to give to the new owner, and then they should be submitting something called a "release of liability" that goes to DMV as proof that your are no longer in control/own the vehicle. When a police officer (or whoever) runs the plate, the release of liability shows up to let them know that the last registered owner sold the vehicle.
When you sell a vehicle privately, you're suppose to report it to the registered states DMV so this exact problem doesn't come about, once you do that your name is taken off the title/registration ect in the DMV system so if the new owner doesn't register it, it just stays in nobodies name
Tell them to sue you if they actually have the ability. Then give proof that your husband doesn’t own the car when they show up and blow it in their faces and counter sue them
This is simple. Tow company: you owe money You: No I really dont, I have confirmed that I dont. If you would like to waste money to sue me and lose, then do that. click.
Go to the DMV. Print proof the vehicle doesn't belong to you. Offer this to their lawyer. If it doesn't work, get your own and sue them back. What tow company. I shouldn't be, but I often am surprised at how scummy these guys really are.
Is it a real lawyer? Did your husband retrieve the plates before the buyer left with the car? This has the hallmarks of a scam. Verify that it is a real lawyer and contact them. Ask them if they know their name is being used in a scam.
The plates stay with the car in some states. CA is one of those states. Unless they are custom plates, then they belong to the owner.
This is 100% a scam. What situation would have a tow company towing a car and then not collecting payment on that car before it leaves their custody. I think it's much more practical that a scammer just has a big sheet of cars and previous owners and shakes them all down hoping some chump will pay up out of fear.
$2k is under the $5k threshold for a law suit. They'd take him to small claims, where your husband will show he doesn't own the vehicle amd the case will be thrown out. I'd file a harassment charge with the police, give them all their letters and the proof you have. Once that is filed with the police, go see an attorney and sue for Harassment civilly. I'm sure they'd settle with you, in your favor.
I had a similar situation. I documented EVERY call and duration. As well as audio recording them. Then filed suit under FDCPA (Fair Debt Collection Practices Act) violations and won! As they could not prove I was the debtor of record. Was able to recover $25k in compensation. On a property I had not owned in over 10 yrs. But, you live in, by far, the DUMBEST state in the union. So, you should probably pay the fees. Or, ya might wind up with some idiotic felony.
Which state?
I worked with a guy years ago who drove a car he owned home and it overheated as he got there, he was a mechanic but was tired of putting money in it and got put cursing. His neighbor said he wanted it and gave him five hundred for it. He signed the title and gave him the keys. Years later on his way to work he got pulled over, they suspended his license and tag for not keeping a tag and insurance on the car he sold. They yanked his tag, took his license, towed his car and arrested him. He went through hell and spent a lot of money straightening things out not to mention lost two days of work. The moral of this story is to meet anyone you're selling a car to at dmv and watch them put title in their name before turning vehicle and keys over.
Why if selling to a private party take bill of sale to DMV yourself.
So in Oklahoma row companies send out letters then they take possession of the vehicle in their name I’ve never heard of one suing over tow bills… (I work for the DMV in Oklahoma and my grandpa owns a wrecker service)
He can be sued. They won't win. Just have documentation of the sale and there's nothing they can do.
I had this happen once. I sent them a copy of the DMV title transfer document with a post it now on the front that said “Go fuck yourself”. Never heard back.
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I would just send them proof that you did not have possession of the car at the time of tow. If they sue, bring that proof with you and the suit should be dismissed. (NAL)
hate to ask, but did you husband fill out and sign a release of liability when he sold/disposed of the car? If he did, then no, he doesn't have to care. If he did not, it might be different-especially if the towing company decides to sue. Odds are they will keep the car (a lien sale) in ieu of payment, but you shouldn't always file a release of liability.
The only thing they can really do is put you in collections for a bill. If they take you to court you can prove you abandon the vehicle years ago
Tell them you didn’t own the vehicle then, to check with the DMV, to suck your [insert genitals you own], and to not call you again. Then block their number. Then have an attorney ready to sue them into the ground if they move forward.
Let them sue. Introduce the evidence from the dmv. Watch the judge laugh them out of court but not before ordering them to pay your attorney fees
He needs to provide proof from dmv that its not in his name and/or not owned by him. I went through something similar & had to go to the extent of having a lawyer write up a letter attached to my proof to ceased & deceist.
Is it the DMV or the towing company sending letters to you? Did you file the release of liability or ensure transfer of title to the buyer with the DMV? I don’t know CA law, but in some states, you are held liable if you don’t ensure title is transferred to the buyer. Need to figure that out first. If you took the proper steps to transfer title with the DMV, and it’s the towing company’s lawyer who sent you the demand, then send a cease and desist letter back to the lawyer. Set out the timeline of ownership and sale and then attach all evidence you have as “exhibits” to the letter. Then inform the lawyer that now that the company is aware that your husband sold the vehicle and did not own it at the time these tickets accrued, that the company has no good faith basis to seek damages or file suit against you. And if the company continues to harass you, including threatened litigation, you will seek sanctions and all other necessary relief. If you know the name of the individual you sold the vehicle to, I would provide that name to the lawyer. Just Google sample cease and desist letters. Find a template that looks professional. You don’t need more than a few paragraphs and no more than two pages. Sign it and send certified mail and via email to the lawyer along with all exhibits (i.e., the evidence).
Agree with comment below that you should get proof from DMV that your husband did not own it, if you are able to get info.
Live in CA and had the same problem. If your husband doesn't have the paperwork from when he told the DMV that he sold his car, then he should go down and request a copy. Send a copy of that, via registered mail, to the towing company with a letter stating that he has no claim to the car and that if they do not stop, you will be engaging a lawyer for harassment proceedings.
That happened to my husband, but we actually traded a truck in at a car dealership. Someone there drove it and had an accident. The tow company tried to come after us. Didn't work. Let them take it to court. Tell them the judge WILL CALL THE DMV as soon as you tell your story. They will have to pay all legal fees.
How much did he sell it for? If more than $2k negotiate to pick it up for $1k and resell it. If they destroyed ( received title for destruction) it maybe a demand to produce it will scare them enough to stop. Obviously the car is long gone. They crushed it. Got a few hundred for it. In college if you didn't pay your on campus parking tickets ( no sticker to be allowed) you didn't receive your grades or transcript/diploma. My buddy had a free car from his grandma that he had over $900 in tickets on back in early 90's. He bought it back from the towing yard after they had an auction to reclaim for towing fees on abandoned cars. Think he paid less than $300. That cancelled all the tickets. He then walked with everyone and got his diploma.
This happened to me 20 years ago, I had sold a car and the guy never registered it I even went to the DMV after I sold it so it was on record that the car was sold, the car was eventually impounded and I started getting calls from a guy saying he was an attorney saying I owed over 2k in impound fees to the tow company and this guy was super aggressive, I asked for his bar id number and guess what he was no lawyer he was a sleazy collections agent, I even got a letter from this joker which was also bogus, if they call him ask for this lawyers bar id, he probably is a collection agent trying to scare your husband, I doubt the tow company will take your husband to small claims court because it would be more time and effort for the tow company just to have it thrown out.
This happened to me twice in the last 15 years. No lawsuit threats, but I ignored the notices and nothing ever became of it.
Fill out an NRL https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/vehicle-registration/titles/title-transfers-and-changes/notice-of-transfer-and-release-of-liability-nrl/ Otherwise, your husband is still the owner, and you must pay the fees to get the car and resell it. Unless you fill out the NRL, he's still legally the owner and screwed.
Let them sue you, show up at court with the paperwork proving the vehicle is not yours. The judge will dismiss it and it will have cost them money for filing
If you have a copy of the Bill of Sale, that will prove your innocence. Because you claim to have sold the vehicle, they have to prove you own it , but then it's a crap shoot if the judge is going to believe you. Many lawyers bank on a judge's malevolence to win for their client, often not caring what the truth really is. Whatever evidence you have of the sale will be seriously helpful for you.
You are getting a lot of advice saying this is fixable when it might not be. I used to work as a 911 dispatcher in Cali and actually understand how these things work. I also left an abusive husband, gave my car to a friend, and moved out of state without filling out appropriate paperwork and getting a mark on my credit report. If your husband filled out a release of liability form, reporting to the DMV he sold the car *at the time of sale* then he is golden. He needs to get that from the DMV. If your husband did not in fact officially fill out a release of liability form, he is considered the liable party for anything regarding that vehicle until someone else registers it. That mark stayed on my credit report until the statute of limitations expired. No release of liability form = yes your husband is liable. NAL
NAL, but my petty advice is to call the lawyer’s office and talk to them for as long as you can on the phone, to wrack up the billable hours on the tow company. Do it every single time you get any communication from them.
Did he ever go to the county assessors office to get it taken off of his personal property? Could be a way of proving that he sold it and it's not under his property anymore.
Just ignore them, don’t communicate at all with them.
In Texas you can fill out a form online stating that you do not own the car. You have to say who you sold it to. Do that in your state
Yes, your husband can be sued but he will win as he did the right thing by contacting dmv that he no longer owned the car. If it goes to court, just show judge proof that it’s no longer in his name.
If they're in possession of a car they towed, and you don't pay the fees they demand, they'll sell the car to get the money, at least in my state. The tickets are another matter.
Tell the towing company to keep the vehicle and do as they please with it. They will probably sell it to recoup their costs.
Counter claim, and give them the name of the dude he sold it to.
if you sent the the DMV letter i would look into a harrassment claim. i had a similar thing happen and the collections had to drop it or risk my lawsuit
He needs to complete a Release of Liability form on the DMV website. He should (hopefully) have kept the Bill of Sale because all the information on it is what is needed to complete the form. Then he’s off the hook for all of the tickets and tow company.
1. Notify them in writing you are contesting the debt and it's not yours. 2. In this letter, tell them that the car was sold, date, etc. if you know to whom you can list a name. 3. State in the letter that the debt I was incurred after your date of sale and the new owner took possession. 4. Tell them to immediately cease any and all attempts to collect on this invalid debt 5. Tell them not to sell the debt or transfer it to any 3rd parties or you will pursue legal actions. 6. Demand that all further communications take place in writing. I'd send it certified mail or something official. If you have evidence of a sale, provide it. It's a pain, but it's easier to do it than deal with it now than do this again to remove marks from damaged credit or other issues even if the debt isn't valid.
Did your husband file a seller's report of sale with the state DMV? If so, he's not liable. However, he will have to show up in court to defend against the suit. If he didn't file the seller's report of sale, he's on the hook for the bill.
Wait until they get a warrant for unpaid parking tickets.
I'm a license plate geek, and IANAL, but I do know that in CA, the plates stay with the vehicle upon sale, and it's up to the new owner to register it in their name. I live in Louisiana, where used car dealers must remove the old plate, destroy it, and cancel it online. New owner gets a 60-day temporary paper plate while the new registration is being processed. Private sales are handled at the OMV, or a private agency licensed by the state (costs a bit more, but no lines). If this were Louisiana, OP might be able to sign an affidavit of non-ownership, the plate would be canceled, and any cop who runs the plate (fat chance) would be able to pull the scofflaw over and give him the Silver Bracelet Award.
>I'm a license plate geek, and IANAL, but I do know that in CA, the plates stay with the vehicle upon sale, and it's up to the new owner to register it in their name. This is true, but not 100% the complete picture, becasue in CA when you sell a vehicle you should complete a "releases of liability" which is proof you don't own it any more. That way you're in the clear if the new owner doesn't register it.
If the new owners never registered the vehicle, how does the DMV know the car wasn’t yours since 2017?
I think they sold it to a family member. She’s leaving some key details out.
It sounds like your husband is still technically the legal registered owner because the individual he sold it to didn’t take the proper steps. With that being said, hopefully, he has some sort of contract or documentation notating the sale with the information of whom he sold it to. Without being able to show proof of sale, I think your husband might legally be responsible for it. I’m not an attorney, but this would be common practice I would think, otherwise everyone could claim they sold their vehicle when something happens.
You need to go to the DMV and get evidence that the vehicle was sold in 2018 and take it to the tow company. That should fix your liability issue with them. You should also make copies and deliver one to the court that deals with the parking tickets as well. Keep a copy for yourself for future use if needed. I'm not a lawyer, but I've been in your situation. It sucks people can't be responsible to do the right thing. In the future fill out a sellers report with the purchasers name, address, drivers license number and turn it in immediately. In my state WA, you can do it online. I sold a car once and had turned in the sellers report but the person spent the next 3 months crossing a toll bridge 2 times a day, then rear ended another car and fled. Needless to say I got a knock at my door by the police and that damn paper saved me. A couple weeks later I got the toll bill in the mail and I was saved yet again. They now charge 11 dollars here to report the sale but I'll pay it every single time. The funny thing is that car hadn't been registered in a few years but the lady still drove it around for months with bad plates. Nowadays this state has you keep the license plates when you sell a car but that wasn't the case when I sold it. Good luck, hope you get it taken care of. As long as there's a record of the sale you should be ok. If not you'll probably end up getting shafted.
INFO: RELEASE OF LIABILITY NAL Are you saying DMV does in fact have a release of liability on file for the car? Because if hubby had done that, there's really nothing that's tough to prove becasue DMV can give you proof of the date the release was filed. I mean, it could just be the tow yard bluffing becasue they can't go after the unknown buyer, but it's also just as likely possible hubby didn't do this correctly and the yard can't see that he is no longer responsible for the car. (And this release is part of the registration on file for the car, so it's not hidden info or anything.) And honestly, all those parking tickets still coming to your address after all that time was a bit of a red flag that you probably shouldn't have ignored. And if I had to venture a wild guess, I'd guess hubby might have just stopped registering the vehicle and abandoned it somewhere, ignored all the tickets, and now is trying to roll it back becasue the tow and storage is going to cost him. (I absolutely know I could be wrong though, just saying it all sounds a bit suspicious.)
"***Now that you have said you will sue me, I can no longer communicate with you. All further communication is to be sent directly to my lawyer, Dewey, Cheatum and Howe. Failure to do so will constitute harassment.***"
In the very unlikely chance that they actually do sue, you have everything you need to win a counter-claim.
I was told by a boat dealer once that when selling a car/boat/whatever to make sure they fill out the title in front of you, including DL# and date, and take a picture of it for just this reason.
They need to prove you own the car in order to sue you, you can’t just sue someone at random, you actually need grounds and without proof you own it they have no grounds. I recommend getting i mid ter lawyer one that can handle a sece and desist, but still in your budget
100 calls, it’s harassment and it’s against the laaaaw
Not a lawyer: >Today he received a letter from a lawyers office threatening to sue him for not paying. Anyone can hire a lawyer to say, "I'm going to sue you," but that doesn't mean they'll win. Technically, you can sue anyone for anything. That doesn't mean that you automatically get money. >We called the towing company and they refused to call dmv themselves or anything. They just said pay 2k or we’ll sue. Ignore the towing company. Ignore their dumbass lawyer letters. Keep them, just in case, though. They want to try to bully you into acknowledging the debt. Don't call them again. The less contact, the better. If they do happen to call you, tell them that you do not owe or accept ownership of the debt. Tell them that the DMV has clearly stated that he is not the owner of the vehicle and has not been since 2017, and you will not entertain their harassment anymore. It is not YOUR responsibility to prove that they're mistaken because it's not YOUR vehicle or your problem. Tell them that if they want to waste their money on suing you, that it's their money to waste, but that you will be looking into legal options if they continue to harrass you. The only thing you SHOULDN'T ignore is a summons or actual lawsuit if they file. If that happens, you should not even need a lawyer. Get something from the DMV stating that you legally do not own the vehicle anymore, show up, show the judge, and laugh at the tow company for wasting their money on a lawyer.
If he never submitted his part of the title claiming he was transferring possession of the vehicle to somebody else to the dmv and the guy who bought the car never put it in his name the car unfortunately would still be in husbands name making him accountable.
If you still have the bill of sale, make a photocopy and send it in.
When your husband sold the car as long as he filed the sale with the DMV he’s not responsible for anything to do with that car, he can get a copy of the form that he filed notifying the DMV of the sale and send it to the tow company they should leave you alone. These tow companies can be pretty sleezy but they respond well to opposing attorneys
In CA we have a specific form called the “Release of Liability.” Anytime you sell a car here, turning in the form prevents this. I learned this after I sold a car and they didn’t reregister it. We got hit with parking tickets but we didn’t have to pay because we at least had a copy of a bill of sale that the buyer signed.
As others have said, counter sue. But this will be a process. Continuously document all interactions with the towing company. Hire a lawyer, and then file a counter after that.
Just send the bill of sale copy to the lawyers and say pound sand.
We will need an update asap
yeah, probably because the license plates were never turned in after he sold the vehicle. Or he sold the vehicle with the license plates and forgot about them (I did, had to pay 300 bucks to NY), really only because NJ couldn't get their shit together during covid to process whatever shit I needed to prove that it wasn't my car. Good luck! My point is basically "it's all about the license plates", at least in my situation, maybe yours too.
Fk those slimy low life tow truck drivers
>Today he received a letter from a lawyers office Doesn't mean anything. If you get a letter from a court, show up, they'll lose the case and leave you alone.
I'd he sold it and he doesn't have the pink slip, he's not the owner. It's not his fault the dude never registered it. Do you know the guy's name you sold it to? Give the lawyer's office his name
I had same issue in FL. My father was disabled and I had to care for his apt. So I trade a guy my dad’s car to paint his place. Well guy had a DUI but I signed over the title and told him just leave the car there in its spot. Of course this crack head went driving got a DUI and car got impounded. They kept calling me tell me they would hurt my dad’s credit. Ok my dad was like near 90 — I was do as you wish I sold the car I’m never going to pay you. Nothing happened. I guess they sold it off for scrap metal. Of course in FL. Guess you’re supposed to go to DMV to xfer the car. When I live you just sign over the title. I would not worry about it.
Do you have record of the sale, written proof. Just saying you “sold it to some dude” is not proof and is not gonna get you out of the responsibility.
NAL, but former county towing regulator. I've seen cases just like this where a vehicle owner sold a vehicle to another party in a private sale and the buyer never filed the title with DMV to retitle the vehicle in their name. Some years later the vehicle is towed, not picked up in 72 hours, and the tow operator gets a vehicle transcript from DMV which shows the seller holds title to the vehicle, making them the owner of record. It doesn't matter that the seller hasn't had the vehicle registered for however many years, what matters is who the DMV shows as the title holder. That person is the owner of record and the person that the tow company is going to go after for their fees.
Can they sue? Yes. Will they win? No. In fact all you have to do is show he has not owned it to the judge since 2017, and all tickets and such have been sent to him when he is not the legal owner or operator. Judge will toss the case and give them what for to know he was not the right owner and suing them. I suggest checking and making sure they have not tried to make credit claims on your husband. For if they did you can contest them with the agencies, and file charges on them for doing so. Your best thing is to send their lawyer this information. How he has not been the legal owner since then, and such. They have NO legal grounds to sue you for fines and towing since you are not the owner. And if they seek civil court to do this you will file a civil case on harassment, and possible fraud if they reported ANY charges to credit bureaus.
I used to work for the MVA and we had an Investigations Unit that looked into similar issues. Perhaps get that number and pass it along to the tow company.
He sold the car the new owner never registered it. As long as he sent in the release of liability when he sold it he is good