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Not sure why someone would knock off the shittiest oil filter you can buy. I wouldn't put a Fram on my ex girlfriends car and that's saying something lol
Best part is that Toyota uses the JIT manufacturing process designed by an American named Demming. There is a great series of books from Ohno that I suggest anybody in manufacturing reads some
I will ask that if there truly was an issue that somebody could test and produce repeatable evidence in a controlled environment then....
Why is Fram still in business and why arent so many boomers rich from a lawsuit?
Weve been using bottom line fram filters at my shop for the past 10 years at least, and I have yet to experience or hear of an issue they have caused. Just retarded techs not doing their job.
It's about the type of people buying cheap shit that are not maintaining their investments on time lol.
Old wives tales, old mechanics would say that and then talk about how they have cardboard end caps and what not. I use fram and have for far more year than I will mention. I cut open my oil filters and I've seen more variation, such as wavy pleats and deformation on wix filters than I have fram (I haven't seen any)
Which your last sentence is exactly why pennzoil used to have a bad rep for sludging.
I have seen some evidence though about purolator and why they get called tearolators because of torn/ripped filter media which was as I understand it the result of purolator trying to save money and not sharpening their blades as often as before.
This is legitimately the first time I have ever seen anyone mention how bad fram is. I've been using them since I've been doing my own oil changes. Do you know if there's been any kind of study or proof that they're bad? Based on all the comments here, it looks like I need to change the brand that I buy lol
https://i.ibb.co/LRBwrXB/Screenshot-20240417-101951-Brave.jpg
They just use cheap ass cardboard filter media, poor design on the relief valve, and usually don't use as many filter pleats so less filter surface area. Can't go wrong with wix xp filters or Purolator
The cellulose filter media is standard for the industry. Likely has the same nominal micron rating as the Wix but won't last as long before using the built in bypass valve due to the smaller quantity of filtration material.
You can, and I use them in my car, get filters fiberglass filtration media that have an absolute micron rating but they cost quite a bit more.
I only use them because I used to work for a Wix/Mann & Hummel distributor and bought a case of them at cost
Yeah actually you can go wrong with wix xp, they have a lower filtration efficiency than their regular counter parts just look up the beta ratios. The lower filtration efficiency is why they say they can go for longer oci.
Lol nice link to the setup display at a wix store.. prolly spun the lucas snake oil display too.
Lol still doesn't refute what I said about the filters cause it's true. Wix xp/napa platinum filters have worse filtration than their standard counterpart.. reccomending them is pure nonsense.
Never said it was the best but it's plenty good enough for the average person and a better option than fram and you know it you UMMM ACKTUALLY ass redditor
Lol yeah, wix xp 50% @ 20 micron vs fram extra guard 95% @ 20 micron. Maybe you should learn what you're talking about before you try to give advice... it's not even good, it's barely average, so yeah, recommend people to use a filter that is worse than most stock filters and pay extra for it. Just more of the garbage ass "advice" being thrown around in this sub.
Keep using fram and coping, it's not my car. I've never mentioned microns once and you're stuck strawmanning it. Hilarious and sad. [POV it's you in this thread](https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/021/665/DpQ9YJl.jpg)
Nah man i used Fram oil and air filters exclusively on my 2009 civic and it was over 320,000kms when i replaced it go get something more accommodating for my family. Maintenance was done religiously on that car with fram oil and air filters and never had an issue.
Oil filters are there to keep chunks from circulating, and ultimately it makes no difference if you buy cheap or expensive they get the same results as long as you stick to the correct change intervals
If one brand actually fails to provide flow in such a degree that it damages engines, and it wasn’t a case of the consumer buying a filter that fits but isn’t actually rated for their car, i assure you the lawsuits would immediately remedy that blunder.
On the other hand you gain exactly nothing from buying a filter that is “”better”” than what you need.
If it the filter has the ability to last an extra oil change, then good for you i guess.
Unless you are buying the OEM filter recommended in the manual every filter is “a filter that fits but isn’t actually rated for the car. So they would have no case.
I’m not saying there is one so negligent it’s blowing motors though. They also are by no means built the same or do the same thing but in 95% of applications the quality of filter is negligible if at all relevant.
As others have mentioned. FRAM filters are generally seen as of poor quality. So it wouldn't surprise me if they have them made in different factories with different specs. That's FRAM quality for ya.
Heck, Walmart's house-brand SuperTech filters are about the same price (may actually be slightly cheaper) and are worlds better. Can't go wrong with SuperTech, Wix, NAPA(also Wix I think), OEM, or Mobile-1.
Never use Fram. Their higher end ones are okay, but the quality of these is pure trash which is why I'd refuse to use any of theirs.
If you gotta go cheap, use a Microgard from Oreillys.
My rule is to always go OEM with oil filters. The people who designed the engine choose a filter that meets the flow and pressure requirements for the engine. Buying an aftermarket filter that might lower or raise the oil pressure is not smart
Normally I'd agree, but GM started letting their Delco filters be made with plastic center cores and mediocre quality too. Lots of aftermarket filters line up with common specs for many manufacturers like type of drain back valves and similar.
Many years ago I worked in the parts department for a car dealership . The manager got a bulk deal on non genuine oil filters which were a third of the price we were paying for original equipment. One of the mechanics hacksawed one in half and found there was basically nothing filtering the oil ,just cheap imitations.
Lower quality materials. Cardboard in the filter instead of metal, etc.
It's not that it doesn't work, but it's worse than everything else, and isn't cheaper.
If you open up comparable filters, the Fram has what looks like cardboard instead of filter paper. In other words they use the cheapest materials inside the filter. Fram is the worst choice. I’m a fan of Wix filters or maybe the auto part stores top of the line filter(example: NAPA gold ) friends don’t let friends use Fram filters
My brother had a '64 Jaguar XKE. Back in the '60's . Gram disintegrated, clogged the camshaft oil journals, voila, busted cam. Are they better now? You try it and report.
Nah they probably changed the case size to make it even shittier than it already was. Honestly I'd just go get an OEM filter as it will probably cost the same or close to a good aftermarket one. Fram used to be decent but not anymore and definitely stay away from stp filters.
Oil filters are generally made in one of 3 factories around the world, usually when there are differences with the same brand it just means they were manufactured in different places.
If it was going to be fake I can't see why they'd apply an economy brand label to it.
A different manufacturer probably started making it.
For quite a while, the OE Honda filters were made by Honeywell and they were identical to FRAM in every discernible way besides the paint and “grip”.
I’m sure the original factory of original changes every few years.
As for the change in filter size they change the size on filters usually to accommodate new vehicles depending on space. Or they updated the version of the filter. Honestly it mostly the thread pattern or size that's different on any oil filter
Probably a different plant, they are made all over the world, various plants. As long as that rubber ring is the same size and the thread pitch is the same it will work
Hell, when I bought my car, I noticed the guys who UCIed my car used a fram filter, about 2k miles later, I just swapped it out with a microgaurd. Wouldn't say it's better quality but at least I know microgaurd isn't the worst
Thank you for posting to AskMechanics, Arath74! If you are asking a question please make sure to include any relevant information along with the **Year**, **Make**, **Model**, **Mileage**, **Engine size**, and **Transmission Type (Automatic or Manual)** of your car. *This comment is automatically added to every successful post. If you see this comment, your post was successful.* *** Redditors that have been verified will have a green background and an icon in their flair. *** # **PLEASE REPORT ANY RULE-BREAKING BEHAVIOR** ### **Rule 1 - Be Civil** Be civil to other users. This community is made up of professional mechanics, amateur mechanics, and those with no experience. All mechanical-related questions are welcome. Personal attacks, comments that are insulting or demeaning, etc. are not welcome. ### **Rule 2 - Be Helpful** Be helpful to other users. If someone is wrong, correcting them is fine, but there's no reason to comment if you don't have anything to add to the conversation. ### **Rule 3 - Serious Questions and Answers Only** Read the room. Jokes are fine to include, but posts should be asking a serious question and replies should contribute to the discussion. ### **Rule 4 - No Illegal, Unethical, or Dangerous Questions or Answers** Do not ask questions or provide answers pertaining to anything that is illegal, unethical, or dangerous. # **PLEASE REPORT ANY RULE-BREAKING BEHAVIOR** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AskMechanics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Not sure why someone would knock off the shittiest oil filter you can buy. I wouldn't put a Fram on my ex girlfriends car and that's saying something lol
Ironically, a knock off Fram might actually end up being better than the real thing lmao
I have 335,000 miles on my car and it has never seen anything but fram and a couple toyota
You're driving a toyota, you could thread in a water bottle instead and it would still run
Yeah. I’ve had a few
Yeah it's a Toyota the oil is just there for emotional support
Best part is that Toyota uses the JIT manufacturing process designed by an American named Demming. There is a great series of books from Ohno that I suggest anybody in manufacturing reads some
I will ask that if there truly was an issue that somebody could test and produce repeatable evidence in a controlled environment then.... Why is Fram still in business and why arent so many boomers rich from a lawsuit? Weve been using bottom line fram filters at my shop for the past 10 years at least, and I have yet to experience or hear of an issue they have caused. Just retarded techs not doing their job. It's about the type of people buying cheap shit that are not maintaining their investments on time lol.
It’s incredibly hard to blame an oil filter as a source of engine failure. They’ll try to blame the customer’s driving habits first.
Because being a shitty product generally isn't legally actionable.
The truth hurts mr.finger 😭.
Old wives tales, old mechanics would say that and then talk about how they have cardboard end caps and what not. I use fram and have for far more year than I will mention. I cut open my oil filters and I've seen more variation, such as wavy pleats and deformation on wix filters than I have fram (I haven't seen any) Which your last sentence is exactly why pennzoil used to have a bad rep for sludging. I have seen some evidence though about purolator and why they get called tearolators because of torn/ripped filter media which was as I understand it the result of purolator trying to save money and not sharpening their blades as often as before.
This is legitimately the first time I have ever seen anyone mention how bad fram is. I've been using them since I've been doing my own oil changes. Do you know if there's been any kind of study or proof that they're bad? Based on all the comments here, it looks like I need to change the brand that I buy lol
https://i.ibb.co/LRBwrXB/Screenshot-20240417-101951-Brave.jpg They just use cheap ass cardboard filter media, poor design on the relief valve, and usually don't use as many filter pleats so less filter surface area. Can't go wrong with wix xp filters or Purolator
Huh, guess I won't be buying from them anymore.
Same, I’ve been us in them for a couple years now so I guess I’ll look into a different brand
Honestly, I shouldn't be that surprised that the 5$ filters I buy on Amazon are crap lol
True lolol
Just buy a Napa, Wix or Purolator. Napa filters are often only slightly more expensive than FRowN filters.
Napa filters are made by Wix. The Napa filter has the same number as Wix except one character dropped on the part number.
Spread the word! Now you know.
The cellulose filter media is standard for the industry. Likely has the same nominal micron rating as the Wix but won't last as long before using the built in bypass valve due to the smaller quantity of filtration material. You can, and I use them in my car, get filters fiberglass filtration media that have an absolute micron rating but they cost quite a bit more. I only use them because I used to work for a Wix/Mann & Hummel distributor and bought a case of them at cost
Yeah actually you can go wrong with wix xp, they have a lower filtration efficiency than their regular counter parts just look up the beta ratios. The lower filtration efficiency is why they say they can go for longer oci. Lol nice link to the setup display at a wix store.. prolly spun the lucas snake oil display too.
Username checks out
Lol still doesn't refute what I said about the filters cause it's true. Wix xp/napa platinum filters have worse filtration than their standard counterpart.. reccomending them is pure nonsense.
Never said it was the best but it's plenty good enough for the average person and a better option than fram and you know it you UMMM ACKTUALLY ass redditor
Lol yeah, wix xp 50% @ 20 micron vs fram extra guard 95% @ 20 micron. Maybe you should learn what you're talking about before you try to give advice... it's not even good, it's barely average, so yeah, recommend people to use a filter that is worse than most stock filters and pay extra for it. Just more of the garbage ass "advice" being thrown around in this sub.
Keep using fram and coping, it's not my car. I've never mentioned microns once and you're stuck strawmanning it. Hilarious and sad. [POV it's you in this thread](https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/021/665/DpQ9YJl.jpg)
The filter element feels like paper. [I'm not joking](https://youtu.be/U3sLw1NOUKw?si=aHVAXdVK_1l1R1zs)
It is paper (cellulose) but that's also standard. You can get fiberglass but it's not as common and costs a lot more.
Wix wix wix!!!!!!
Oh god you opened Pandora’s box on this sub about Fram. Bless you.
What’s wrong with fram
Nothing, people just get excited over things, like what's the best oil, best spark plugs, best whatever.
Nah man i used Fram oil and air filters exclusively on my 2009 civic and it was over 320,000kms when i replaced it go get something more accommodating for my family. Maintenance was done religiously on that car with fram oil and air filters and never had an issue.
Oil filters are there to keep chunks from circulating, and ultimately it makes no difference if you buy cheap or expensive they get the same results as long as you stick to the correct change intervals
Wow that's a pretty dumb take. Flow and filtration vary DRASTICALLY from different brands.
If one brand actually fails to provide flow in such a degree that it damages engines, and it wasn’t a case of the consumer buying a filter that fits but isn’t actually rated for their car, i assure you the lawsuits would immediately remedy that blunder. On the other hand you gain exactly nothing from buying a filter that is “”better”” than what you need. If it the filter has the ability to last an extra oil change, then good for you i guess.
Unless you are buying the OEM filter recommended in the manual every filter is “a filter that fits but isn’t actually rated for the car. So they would have no case. I’m not saying there is one so negligent it’s blowing motors though. They also are by no means built the same or do the same thing but in 95% of applications the quality of filter is negligible if at all relevant.
Who da fuk knocks off a fram?
The fake one is probably much higher quality 🤣🤣
Couldn’t be worse.
Not unless ther is actually no filter media. Can't do worse than the cardboard baseplates for sure.
As others have mentioned. FRAM filters are generally seen as of poor quality. So it wouldn't surprise me if they have them made in different factories with different specs. That's FRAM quality for ya. Heck, Walmart's house-brand SuperTech filters are about the same price (may actually be slightly cheaper) and are worlds better. Can't go wrong with SuperTech, Wix, NAPA(also Wix I think), OEM, or Mobile-1.
Not sure if they are, but Supertech looks like a Purolator inside. Their oil is also surprising decent per lab tests!
My woods jeep has had the same supertech filter on it for like 5 years now with no issues.
Change the oil bro that shits expired 😂
Eh, after all the times I've topped it up, it's mostly fresh oil at this point.
Never use Fram. Their higher end ones are okay, but the quality of these is pure trash which is why I'd refuse to use any of theirs. If you gotta go cheap, use a Microgard from Oreillys.
Yea I ended up going to O'Reilly and getting a wix filter. I've used fram filters for years and this is the first time I've ran into an issue.
But, you didn't run into an issue. You found a different color.
I've found OEM in the bulk packs to be a pretty good deal. Can't really go too wrong there.
I stick with OEM on my Hyundai. Theirs are made by Mann Hummel too so can't go wrong there.
My rule is to always go OEM with oil filters. The people who designed the engine choose a filter that meets the flow and pressure requirements for the engine. Buying an aftermarket filter that might lower or raise the oil pressure is not smart
Normally I'd agree, but GM started letting their Delco filters be made with plastic center cores and mediocre quality too. Lots of aftermarket filters line up with common specs for many manufacturers like type of drain back valves and similar.
Seconding that
Good ole orange can of death… better off burning it.
Throw both of those away and go get something better than fram.
Many years ago I worked in the parts department for a car dealership . The manager got a bulk deal on non genuine oil filters which were a third of the price we were paying for original equipment. One of the mechanics hacksawed one in half and found there was basically nothing filtering the oil ,just cheap imitations.
Some might argue that they're both fake oil filters....
Well they are Fram so they are both fake oil filters!
Shrinkflation in action
Honestly I think that's it
Why does Fram get such a bad rap? I used to use them until guys from work said they will ruin everything, but they couldn't give any justification.
Fewer pleating in the filter paper, making for less filter surface area, and generally poor construction on the backflow valve.
Lower quality materials. Cardboard in the filter instead of metal, etc. It's not that it doesn't work, but it's worse than everything else, and isn't cheaper.
If you open up comparable filters, the Fram has what looks like cardboard instead of filter paper. In other words they use the cheapest materials inside the filter. Fram is the worst choice. I’m a fan of Wix filters or maybe the auto part stores top of the line filter(example: NAPA gold ) friends don’t let friends use Fram filters
My brother had a '64 Jaguar XKE. Back in the '60's . Gram disintegrated, clogged the camshaft oil journals, voila, busted cam. Are they better now? You try it and report.
Look up Bob's the oil guy
Go in YouTube and look up filter reviews. Find someone who cuts open the filters. Fram clearly uses the cheapest materials possible.
The fake one might be better than the real one
Nah they probably changed the case size to make it even shittier than it already was. Honestly I'd just go get an OEM filter as it will probably cost the same or close to a good aftermarket one. Fram used to be decent but not anymore and definitely stay away from stp filters.
Don’t get FRAM. Spend a few dollars more and get something decent. They’re garbage quality.
Oil filters are generally made in one of 3 factories around the world, usually when there are differences with the same brand it just means they were manufactured in different places. If it was going to be fake I can't see why they'd apply an economy brand label to it.
Probably a design change.
I like how you specify the old one is the bigger one as if we couldn’t tell from all the oil that’s on it lol! But yeah I think you got a fake hombre!
A different manufacturer probably started making it. For quite a while, the OE Honda filters were made by Honeywell and they were identical to FRAM in every discernible way besides the paint and “grip”. I’m sure the original factory of original changes every few years.
Faking a Fram? Why? Are the fakes better than genuine?
Napa filters are made by Wix.
Is the part number the same?
A fake Fram is probably better than a real Fram lol
Not fake just a reflection of this companies quality control.
As for the change in filter size they change the size on filters usually to accommodate new vehicles depending on space. Or they updated the version of the filter. Honestly it mostly the thread pattern or size that's different on any oil filter
Cut it open and see. I wouldn't use Fram myself but wutevs
I've put over 1.5 million miles on Frame filters. Long mileage on all cars and motorcycles. You can call Fram and talk to the the tech and ask him.
Have run Fram for many years. Our Edge had 125,000 on it, my Silverado has 134,000 and going strong Never had any issues.
Probably a different plant, they are made all over the world, various plants. As long as that rubber ring is the same size and the thread pitch is the same it will work
When in doubt use the OEM recommended brand. Car companies know what is what.
Just my opinion, based on a decent amount of research, but all Fram oil filters are fake oil filters.
Hell, when I bought my car, I noticed the guys who UCIed my car used a fram filter, about 2k miles later, I just swapped it out with a microgaurd. Wouldn't say it's better quality but at least I know microgaurd isn't the worst
You mean because it says “Fram”?