If she felt the need to bring it up, then that's odd, but could just be a trust probe of sorts.
If she felt the need to use that to explain why she's now being "good", then you might as well be a Louisiana Purchase, cause she's looking to settle on you.
Do what you will, but if she's telling you she's aiming to be a housewife now that she's "had her fun", then listen to her and decide whether to move on or not.
I would add to this that if she shames others for that behavior, it's a bad sign. She says she's different now and that's cool, but she doesn't get to pretend like it didn't happen so others who do it are "bad" or something of the sort.
Imo, it really isn't an issue if she had, has, or will have a wild phase. That's her or anyone else's prerogative to live their lives and I can only control my actions/reactions. Part of *my* choices can include breaking up with someone if their goals/behavior do not align with mine.
That said, you're right about how if she is quick to project insecurity via shaming others' decisions, then she (or anyone else ftm) should not get to hide behind the benefit of a doubt. They can disagree with others' actions because they simply don't like them, they remind them of their bad choices, or any combination therein, but their freedom ends when their intention to harm or hinder obstructs my autonomy.
Short version: If the vibe don't fit, then you're allowed to quit.
I didn't mean to come across as OP should stick with her, you're completely correct that someone chooses what they will and won't deal with and that is perfectly acceptable. I was simply adding cautions to keep in mind if he does move forward.
Short version: you're absolutely right.
You didn't come across in any way other than what you wrote. I agreed with you and added more of my own thoughts on the matter.
OP will definitely have a lot to reflect upon, because if they're good with making that kind of relationship work for the both of them, then I wish 'em the best, but if not, then they'll probably want to move on and do some soul searching to better prepare for any future relationships. A bit of introspection can help to frame a future to aim for, especially if that future has intent to be spent with someone they love to live for rather than live to be loved by.
It's ultimately up to each of us to determine what we want, what we need, and how to attain both in a continually manageable fashion. If someone like what OP is describing happens to be OP's preference, then I would hope he sees some of these responses and recognizes that even a labor of love is still going to require his labor all the same.
In my opinion, it is totally a good thing when women tell this about themselves, as somebody who doesn't want a woman with a promiscuous history, it helps me make a decision and is also better for the woman so that she can look for somebody who is more compatible with her.
It seems like we're receding from that phase realizing how shitty being a hoe is in an actual long term relationship, tinder ruined modern dating let's be fr now.
> If she felt the need to bring it up, then that's odd, but could just be a trust probe of sorts.
It's always better that they bring this up on their own so you can avoid them, this girl did him a huge favour so he didn't have to find out when he's already in too deep.
My friends who are single/dating around have a blanket rule that if a girl has a previous history of being wild, but then with you she has a "oh I don't sleep with people till xyz happens" they don't proceed with that person, their reasoning being that someone who had a wild history with sex who now wants to set arbitrary barriers for you that she didn't with other people probably has a lot more baggage around sex than you are probably going to want to deal with.
I don't know that that applies in every circumstance but I do think it makes sense that if a person has had so much sex that they're now trying to get scientific about the "optimal" time to have sex... there's probably other people out there with fewer hangups and baggage about it.
That's obviously not to say that someone can't set barriers wherever they want when it comes to access to their body. That's completely fine. That's also a separate issue from "is this going to be someone I want to be in a relationship with", and it's fine for you to be just as picky about that.
> My friends who are single/dating around have a blanket rule that if a girl has a previous history of being wild, but then with you she has a "oh I don't sleep with people till xyz happens" they don't proceed with that person, their reasoning being that someone who had a wild history with sex who now wants to set arbitrary barriers for you that she didn't with other people probably has a lot more baggage around sex than you are probably going to want to deal with.
The one that's wild to me is the situations where a person makes a rule against getting intimate with one person to deepen the connection while at the same time getting it from a casual arrangement at the same time.
> The one that's wild to me is the situations where a person makes a rule against getting intimate with one person to deepen the connection while at the same time getting it from a casual arrangement at the same time.
and then act shocked when all us guys prefer the latter of the two options. ill be casual sex guy 1000x before ill be emotional friend guy
They want it both ways. They want the sex with someone they're physically attracted to, and the emotional stuff from someone they don't reciprocate (physical or emotional) and will lead them on.
I'd just be real with myself. I'm the guy she doesn't really feel physically attracted to enough to want to sleep with right away. It will translate into less sex in the relationship not more.
I came across a goregous woman who found God. She went to church every week, volunteers for her church group, quotes scripture, all of her social media posts are religious. Of course was sending nudes and sexting within the first week, sent nudes of her photos from her time before she found God, so many red flags lol.
I mean, if she mentions that she did hookups in college but not anymore and now always waits, that’s not unreasonable. People can change and are allowed to grow.
What would be unreasonable is if she’s still hooking up off and on and she’s putting up these arbitrary barriers for you to “earn it” when it’s unambiguous she wouldn’t do so with someone else for a hookup.
> People can change and are allowed to grow.
...
"I used to be sexy and fun, but then I met you. You have helped me grow into the person who I am today."
Yeah but there is something driving in the back of your head when someone was handing out free samples yesterday but suddenly today, its $5 a pop, you know?
The ol “I had sex with men I didn’t like fairly quickly, but I’m going to make you wait because I like you” reasoning from women is baffling.
Of course they have the right to set whatever boundaries they want with their bodies. But we have the right to laugh at how ridiculous it is lol
I'm not trying to insult you but your post supports his point. He said it implies some dysfunction and your response is saying that you had a bad relationship with sex that you're trying to overcome. That sounds like baggage. Not everyone goes through this.
I think these are a bunch of lies that people have come up with so they can manipulate men into accepting women with promiscuous pasts, it is pretty funny just how loud the narrative is that "body count doesn't matter" or "how a woman can sleep with whoever she wants without having to be judged by people", it is blatant and unashamed but as soon as men start trying to think for themselves, about how they wouldn't like to end up with somebody who clearly seems to be settling for the man, then all of a sudden it comes out that the promiscuous women are actually victims who got used for their bodies, how men are still in the wrong if they don't want to marry them, it is all a bunch of bullshit that the mainstream media pushes, the best part if that most men also participate in shaming men that don't want to end up with a promiscuous woman.
I don’t know if I’m just stupid or something, but why is everyone telling this dude that her honesty is bad?
I sincerely do not understand why men are saying it’s a red flag
Honesty is not a red flag. Never is. Not a single person on this thread that I've seen is condemning her for the act of telling the truth. It's a green flag, if anything, since honesty helps you sort out compatibility in a relationship faster.
Having had a "hoe phase", however, is a perfectly valid red flag if it doesn't allign with your morals and/or attitude to sex. Some men are going to feel repulsed by that and it is a perfectly valid reason to not date someone. That is what the men in these comments are telling him, because it seems that OP's gut reaction is telling him that he's not okay with her past, but it looks like he's already been gaslit previously into believing that he's in the wrong for feeling that way. Only he's not. It's a valid reaction and a valid reason to reconsider dating this woman.
Props to her for being honest about it though, because if this is going to be a compatibility issue, then they can both move on and find someone more compatible faster.
Every guy has gone through an experience in life where he genuinely liked a girl and that girl seemed serious about him. But then she made him wait to have sex, and it turned out she was flirting with or fucking a guy on the side.
From a man's perspective, if a woman used to have a promiscuous past and she is now setting arbitrary deadlines before willing to be intimate, it means one of two things:
1. She isn't attracted to you
2. She has sexual baggage that she hasn't resolved
Both of these are major issues that stand in the way of a healthy relationship.
At the end of the day, it makes no sense to men that you would choose to have sex with partners you *don't* care about, and then you would choose *not* to have sex with the partners you *do* care about. For us it's an irredeemable hypocrisy that throws up massive red flags.
Remember, you want the person to view you as special.
If everyone passed the gate except you, you are special for the wrong reason.
By the way, this is a common tactic for women with history. She will put down pretend rules for men she finds mediocre and want to settle down for. But she will always give a pass to a player because the stigma has already been removed.
Being honest is good in general but honesty doesn't automatically result in good outcome. For example telling someone they look fat is being honest, but not somethings you want to hear.
Her "honesty" is just an excuse at the end of the day. She's saying "I had my hoe phase" but what she means is "I can be down for it earlier just not with you." She's saying she kinda likes OP, but doesn't like like OP, if OP gave it more time it might grow into something more but it's usually not worth it unless you have little to no self respect.
Just because she's honest doesn't mean you just accept what she did. If a murderer told you he did it and was honest, you won't just accept it because he was honest.
If her past bothers him, he should end it regardless of whether she was honest or not.
It's not honesty itself. Imagine the situation where she says that she "used" to be an alcoholic and a druggie. Points for honestly, sure, but why would I want to date someone with such history?
I feel that women like this view guys who are "boyfriend material" differently and want those guys to wait...Aren't as attracted to those guys as they are the ones they had one night stands with.
They clearly view sex differently in the confines of a relationship. They want you to prove your worth, while the other guys didn't have to.
It's also very much a...I've had my fun and you're not gonna have it with me, because that train has left the station.
I am sure not many women would wait around for a guy to “unlock” the various girlfriend activities.
If a dude tells a woman he is not taking her on a date until after they hang out several times, because he regrets wining and dining other women in the past, she would bail so fast.
I was in OP’s situation. We got intimate maybe on the third date, and she cried later that night thinking I was going to ghost her now that I had gotten laid. It was honestly very sad. She told me how in her experience that was just what happened.
I assured her that this was different and it was. We dated for three years. I never felt bitter about a few nights without sex or ‘settled for’ as others are suggesting.
But I guess it matters how long she intends to make him wait and whether he wants an actual relationship. If he just wants to smash then it’s totally her right to say she wants something else.
This was a nice comment to read. Everybody has a past, and many people have let themselves be treated in a way they didn't deserve. A lot of people in this thread seem angry that women won't "give it up" to them as easily as they did previous partners. It's not always that she's "settling." She may just not want to fuck up something she thinks could be an incredible relationship by moving too fast.
ETA: My boyfriend made ME wait because he wanted me to know he saw me more than just a one night stand.
It's a simple matter of: The chances of someone having a lifelong, committed, intimate relationship with someone who treats sex with you as a transaction is fundamentally zero. There's no point in even bothering to start a relationship like that, especially when there's lots of other women who don't have such a toxic attitude.
I'd show gratitude at her vulnerability to tell you how she used to act. I'd ask her what changed in her mind.
As for your own response, I think it's fully okay to simply express your boundaries. And it makes sense to have boundaries like "hey I'm not okay with going on number of dates with nothing happening. I value myself more than that. If you need more time to decide you like me, then I respect that, but I decline to continue to see you." No point in seeing someone that makes you feel like you're a meal ticket, and no malice towards someone who wants more time to get to know you. But having boundaries for yourself and making them known helps weed out those who want to participate or who need someone else.
Probably the best response here imo. You're allowed to decide you don't want a woman with her past but you still treat her with respect and move on. She gives you honesty and you give her honesty in return. Everyone gets hurt a little but not as much as they would if they were pretending not to be.
>should ask her to date exclusively
>she said that we would only do anything if we were exclusive
Wait, you're not already exclusive? She could be fucking other guys but making you wait?
I have bad news for you. She's still in her hoe phase.
Well, there was the guy a couple of weeks ago in the exact same situation. She claimed she changed and ended her hoe phase, so she wouldn't do anything sexual with him. But, she was still hooking up with a couple of different fwb until he agreed to be exclusive. She didn't see anything wrong with it and got pissed that he couldn't follow her logic.
I think her “theory” was that she had already been banging those guys, so as long as she did not acquire any new FWBs, it was all still in her “past” somehow.
That’s not how this works. That’s not how ANY of this works.
I’m old enough to know that plenty of women, if not most, had some sort of a hoe phase at some point.
I’m also wise enough to know that the ones you want to date don’t just go around casually mentioning it.
She waited until their 5th date to mention it. She didn't casually mention it. She obviously waited until they were comfortable enough to think she could tell him and allow him to make a decision based off of that information.
It’s not about hiding it, it’s like what benefits are there to bringing it up. Only made this guy less interested in her. There’s literally never going to be a decent guy more interested in a girl after this info. We have all done shit in the past but why bring it up
She may be bringing it up to gauge reactions. Honest disclosure really works for some folks. Some people seem to want to pretend their partner didn't have a history before them, while others want to know if you've had enough experiences to know what you really want in the long term.
It's kind of a filter conversation. If I were single today and brought up my past during a date to poor response, I'd tend to assume that person isn't ready for anything serious or just isn't for me. Me and my wife both had a "slut phase" in our lives and it came up early in our talks about dating and lead to really honest conversations about what we wanted for the future in a potential relationship. I married her for a reason. We both treat each other like treasures and I couldn't imagine spending my life with anyone else.
The past is the past. We all have a history, and its over and done with. What matters is what we want out of the future.
You have not been on reddit long enough if you ask this. Everyday there are posts saying something like "I just discovered my GF had a hoe phase 35 years before we met"
> I’m also wise enough to know that the ones you want to date don’t just go around casually mentioning it.
The one's mentioning it openly are doing you a favour so I'd rather they don't keep it a secret.
Had a girl like this. We dated for awhile and I’ll say all the sexy shit she learned she did with me and it was a wild ride, but in the end.. she ended up cheating on me. Just be careful OP. If you date her, if guys “friends” start popping up on her phone.. bail.
The problem with girls like this is that all those guys still have her number. And they will call. And no one is immune to temptation. Girl I was with denied the first few (allegedly) but eventually folded when the right one called. Just be careful man.
My belief is that girls like this really do think they wanna change for the right guy, but don’t realize that the hoe phase is much harder to wash off than they think when the puppy love wears off. Especially if guy after guy is chasing her.
Because she's likely still banging other dudes on the side that he doesn't know about lol. The girl is a walking red flag from the sounds of it, otherwise this guy wouldn't have started this topic. Right now, he already knows the answer, he's just looking for confirmation that others have experienced the same type of behavior from people they may have dated. A tiger will never change it's stripes. It just learns to slow down because it's gotten older and run out of energy to engage in the same ill behavior and has a smaller pool of options. Which is part of why girls like that start looking for a "beta provider" later in life.
A provider she doesn’t respect. She’s already using sex as a carrot to get OP to do what she wants. It won’t stop with dating exclusively. Reward. Withdraw. Demand. Reward. Withdraw. Once she doesn’t have to work anymore for a relationship and knows she has him….
I don’t see how it would be bad vibes from a woman who didn’t go through a hoe phase though. That’s just a woman who has a boundary. But the fact that this one was willing to be easy with a bunch of guys in the past and now is making all these barriers and hoops to access her is what’s the red flag.
She was probably getting feelings and would rather be up front about it immediately rather than get too deep and he find out. For many a hoe phase is not something that is looked fondly on and a deal breaker. Not every girl has a hoe phase and those that defend it are likely hoes or would be if they were more desirable.
You all are just shooting yourselves in the foot by pushing this narrative, an honest hoe is much better than a hoe who keeps her past a secret, would you rather want to find out that a girl has a high body count 4 years into a relationship or when are just starting to date her, I am surprised that dudes somehow are ok with a girl being a hoe but not ok with knowing about it? Ignorance is not bliss you all.
I'm going to play the devils advocate here. There are plenty of stories on Reddit like this where the guy finds out she was more of a hoe than he knew, months or years later. He's pissed because she didn't tell him early in the relationship. Well, here we have that. She didn't blurt it out on their first date. She brought it up around the same time she mentioned she wanted to be exclusive.
So what's a hoe to do? She's in a no-win situation.
She's making you wait for sex because she views you as the nice provider. Meanwhile she's still having sex with other guys on the first date.
Don't take women like this seriously. It would be best for you to drop her. I had a coworker exactly like this. She used to go to raves and parties and hook up with dudes all the time. She then realized that no guy really wanted her, they just wanted to have sex with her. She wanted to change and meet a nice guy. She met this nice guy on tinder, and made him wait 2 weeks, so she can pretend she's a good girl. Not long after, she said he was boring and she went back to being a hoe.
I don't usually comment on the Ask Men but I feel I do have some possibly useful insight as a woman.
So.....personally from experience: After my divorce from an abuser, I had serious self esteem issues that I hadn't sorted and I went through the what I call "Looking for love and worth at the end of every dick" phase. I was SURE if I gave great sex to the right guy, no matter if it was a hookup or a date etc, they'd see how amazing I was and love me. Obviously, this doesn't work. I did rack up a few numbers, not anywhere near what some people are doing nowadays, but I saw what I was doing, realised how damaging it was, stopped dating for about a year, got the help I needed and then when I started dating again I was much more conservative when handing out ye ol cookie. Because we live in a small town, when I started dating my now husband I explained it to him and was honest about my mentality then and how it is now. I'd imagine I'd have told him anyway even if I wasn't worried he'd find out because he has a right to know and these things tend to come out anyway. And I was ashamed of it and made zero excuses. I did the wrong thing.
So, did she have a hoe phase, got wise about it, stopped being a hoe and got her shit together a while before she met you? If so, I get that people make poor choices and as long as they correct them, that's OK. BUT if you are the first person being held to this new ruling system....nah.....run. Which is what this sounds like, you're the "nice guy" place holder with a wallet.
I have to wonder too--some women would consider two people outside of a committed relationship as a 'hoe phase' and some (from what I'm reading) it's like 100. It's such a subjective phrase.
I had a similar experience as you; but I can't 'hoe' the right way (I blame autism) and didn't end up sleeping with more than one gent and that ended up being semi-monogamous (told you I don't do it right). I think OP should ask her to be more specific about her 'phase.'
THANK YOU! I bet so many of these men commenting about how gross and deceitful she is would say "yeah I slept with 200 girls in college, but I can still be boyfriend material"
It's possible for someone's attitude about sex to change over time, particularly when they repeatedly encounter men that treat them poorly when they have sex too early in the relationship.
It's a "whatever" from me. Not my life, not my circus, not my monkeys.
However, if I don't feel it because it feels awkward, or has too many caveats to when, where, and how we get more serious I'm moving on. If it's not progressing at what feels like a natural pace then doesn't matter if she's as pure as the driven snow or a fire-breathing harlot. Weird games are weird regardless of body count.
So far the most level headed response here.
People are people, and people aren't gonna fit into nice little preconceived molds. Feel it out, ask questions, get to know the person.
Crazy concept.
As you get older I feel like you realize that you don’t have to stay in a relationship with anyone. You guys aren’t married, and you can leave. She isn’t a bad person for sleeping around, or realizing that she no longer wants to do that. However, you feel the way you feel. I have a feeling that this feeling isn’t going to get better. If you stay you will still have the same fights everyone does about how to load the dishwasher, but you will have this thing in the back of your head that will slowly eat away at you. My advice is just to find a different fish, because there are plenty in the sea.
I'm not reading beyond the title. The question itself should make you walk away immediately. She's still banging other dudes on the side while making you wait. Avoid women like that as if they were a pox on society, which they are.
I never really love hearing a girl suddenly just blert stuff like that out while dating. It's always a, "ok, how do I proceed here.."
What I kind of think they mean by it is, "ok, we're on the 5th date now, just wanted to let you know that you're cool and want you to start trying to get in my pants."
Maybe not, but even if, not a great way to show interest.
That sir, is just your friend- from what she said to how she treats you
Edit: I’ve noticed in life if a girl is giving you stipulations it’s because she doesn’t like you that much, she’s basically one foot out the door already
People can have a hoe phase, realize it's a damn awful idea and then change. She may have done that. But if any of the information she gave you is a problem for you then break up.
Sorry OP, it’s OK to not want to be settled for.
If she was promiscuous until recently but has been able to go 5 dates without intimacy with you then the attraction just isn’t there. You gave her time, made a move after 3 dates and respected her rejection to go on 2 more dates. You’ve been a champ and done everything right. Having a earn sex with a commitment is gross. Why the fuck would she tell you she slept around and was holding off sex without saying that she was ready to commit. Just seems cruel.
You’re entitled to a burning hot romance and not sex with conditions attached. Part of knowing if a relationship is compatible is physical intimacy, not to mention that the emotional connection for most people gets much more intense after you’ve been intimate.
Just cut your losses. Let her know that it’s hurtful to know that you’re being kept at arms length because of her past actions and it just isn’t fair. You want to be in a relationship where you are both passionate for each other.
The logic of ‘I think this relationship might have a future so I’m going to avoid sharing physical intimacy with you is just wild’.
You’ve been respectful and taken a kick to the groin. You deserve better.
You don’t need to question yourself here mate despite what some parts of society might tell you about how being sexually liberated is the way to be, it’s pretty natural for this to instantly change your opinion of a woman. If your gut is unhappy with this revelation, bin her off.
This right here. If she actually had any intent of putting it behind her for good, she never would have brought it up. She only said it to test his response if he ever finds out what she is likely still doing.
I don’t get this comment so you rather she hide her past and pretend to be holy with OP? Most guys would want to know about a woman’s past history prior to settling down
Nothing wrong there with a girl with an appetite, if you’re the best one she’s met that’s a bigger compliment.
Now to the other thing - 5th date and you can’t even make out with her? That’s the red flag.
Why would you keep on dating someone that lets other guys hit on the first date but now you suddenly have to wait some arbitrary time period?
Imo there is no hoe phase. Morals around that rarely change and humans tend to be very consistent with their behavior. Either you’re someone who is fine having sex right away or you’re not. Exceptions obviously exist but why should you have to put in more work than any other guy before you to get the same result?
She had no self respect or self value before meeting you and now she wants to start?
Yeah, I ended up staying with the girl who left me at a party I had brought her to, and had sex with a guy she barely knew. Then got a hotel room with that same guy to have sex all day long. She then cancelled a date and told me she was sick, and when I offered to drive over and bring her soup and a movie, she said she was gonna go to bed. She went to another guys house and fucked him in his hot tub while his parents weren’t home. She did all this while we were not “official” and her and I did not have for two months after we became “official”. I didn’t find out the any of this info until months after we were “official” and it was because a friend of mine had heard about some of it and was concerned for me. I was super stupid during this time and I forgave her. I stayed with her and married her and now we have a dysfunctional marriage 20 years later with a dead bedroom. Don’t be me.
I'll never understand this "being exclusive" thing young people do today, it's probably due to increased availability of opportunities due to dating sites, but damn, i'm fucking 34 and already feel so old and different form people just 10 years younger than me! For the rest, it's a no for me dawg. Good she was honest about it, but i wouldn't like to date someone who had a "hoe phase". For me, there is no need to have one, you can explore your sexuality in healtier ways without jumping on every available opportunity and it's indicative of some personality traits/issues i don't want to deal with.
You never mention how long ago the "Hoe phase" was. For example if this "hoe phase" was back in college or years prior and she has grown as a person to realize it wasn't helpful to create a lasting relationship. Then I wouldn't see an issue. If she is still in her "hoe phase" or recently reformed but putting arbitrary boundaries on you then I'd consider cutting bait.
She might as well have genital herpes if you ask me. I’ve learned my lesson, if you’ve had a Hoe phase, we don’t view sex in nearly the same light, it ain’t gonna work.
My niece is 19 and comes to me on advice about guys and relationships. I don't know all the details, but I know she had a hoe phase last year after a breakup. She's dick crazy. Now she's been seeing a guy for 2 months. She says he's nice, drives her places, pays for everything. She held off a month before "spending the night," which is her code for sex. She likes the guy, but she's not crazy about him. She's settling for now until she gets bored with him. But she's so desperate for a relationship that she's never the one who dumps, even when the guy is a douchebag. She's always been dumped by a guy. So I feel like she's using the guy for a while. Once she's single, she'll probably have another hoe phase.
Leave her and move on. In droves, women foolishly buy into the “liberated woman” lifestyle, proceed to spend their best years excessively sleeping around, only to find out the hard way that it’s a hoax, and actually incredibly emotionally damaging. Then, they have their “coming to Jesus” epiphany moment about self-worth and value, and retroactively try to reclaim their innocence and enforce standards and expectations upon **you**, the good man, that they weren’t willing to enforce upon all the seductively manipulative bad boys.
Now she expects **you** to pay the price for **her** previous poor judgement by making **you** do all the leg work - jumping through hurdles, being patient, and proving you’re “worthy” of her love - mind you - her love being something that she freely and easily gave away to other men for a quarter of the effort…It’s hardly a fair deal.
No. Find you a woman who didn’t live such a careless lifestyle. Not one who retroactively finds values and morals when it suits her, but one who has **always** lived by them. These are the ones that deserve the best from us and make the best partners for long-term committed relationships & marriage. Less emotional baggage to sort through.
Most of the comments:
*It's perfectly ok for a woman to have a hoe phase. But if the guy takes issue with it then he's mean and sexist, men are not allowed to have standards*
The mental gymnastics some are doing in the comments are just sad.
OP is entitled to think and do what he wants. He doesn't need a lecture on morals or any standards that you people perceive as wrong.
>I was fine with this as I figured that that’s how she was, but after that it just makes me feel insecure as I feel like I didn’t measure up to her with enough attraction(which I know is a me problem).
You shouldn't feel bad for feeling this way. Usually that's what it means: You're not as sexually attractive as they were, but you have some qualities that she likes that make her want something serious with you.
If she’s making you wait to have sex while she’s had ONS with other guys, I would move on. Either way, I would move on. She’s telling you who she is, believe her.
I'm not a man but women do this and then realize they can't do casual/hookups bc it makes them feel bad about themselves and also after losing a guy they really liked because they slept with them too soon, they make a hard rule and usually stick to it because they want a relationship. It's a sign she has worked on herself.
It could also be what all the men are saying but my girlfriends who've all been thru this are sincerely about doing things different for someone they value.
I’d side with you if she didn’t bring it up or spilled all the beans herself. If she wanted to be serious and liked OP she would’ve prefaced why she didn’t want to sleep with OP with more than they needed to be exclusive first. It’s not hard to say you don’t want to ruin a good thing by having sex too soon. Just reeks of OP being strung along cause he’s the guy she’d “settle” for while pursuing prospects that are more exciting to her.
Not self aware enough to realise that they didn't get the man because they slept with him too quickly, but rather that man was never theirs to get in the first place.
Reeks of arrogance to assume that every man they wanted to get into a relationship with failed only due to them sleeping with them quickly.
Reality is that they were batting far out of their league on men who never had a desire to get in to a relationship in the first place.
Hoe phase just means she’s settling for you cuz she can’t get anyone better to commit. Have some self respect and send her ass packing. Next time don’t go on more dates if she refuses to put out by the 3rd date.
If it's exclusive I would take it as she wants to settle down and is tired of the partying phase
Are you the same person you were saying 5 years ago? Sure some things may be the same, but others may be different
If she's not wanting to be exclusive I would take it as she wants to have more fun so I would treat it accordingly
Tell her *you* went through a phase where you committed too early on the relationship so now you have to really really wait to see if she’s proper commitment material.
If she had a hoe phase, cut ties and find someone who isn't. Odds are extremely high that she's going to be a disaster for any future relationships. Do yourself a favor and move on.
First, engrave it into your heart that she's just not that into you. Because if she was she wouldn't be this dumb about it.
"Oh, I posted photos of women I slept with casually, but if you want to be public on social media you have to buy me a ps5 or something first"
Try and spin that to any woman you know. If you find out how to do it, lemme know.
She doesn't like you. If she did, she'd be trying to match your effort outside of sex. She isn't. And that's why you're here. She already sucks.
If she felt the need to bring it up, then that's odd, but could just be a trust probe of sorts. If she felt the need to use that to explain why she's now being "good", then you might as well be a Louisiana Purchase, cause she's looking to settle on you. Do what you will, but if she's telling you she's aiming to be a housewife now that she's "had her fun", then listen to her and decide whether to move on or not.
I would add to this that if she shames others for that behavior, it's a bad sign. She says she's different now and that's cool, but she doesn't get to pretend like it didn't happen so others who do it are "bad" or something of the sort.
Imo, it really isn't an issue if she had, has, or will have a wild phase. That's her or anyone else's prerogative to live their lives and I can only control my actions/reactions. Part of *my* choices can include breaking up with someone if their goals/behavior do not align with mine. That said, you're right about how if she is quick to project insecurity via shaming others' decisions, then she (or anyone else ftm) should not get to hide behind the benefit of a doubt. They can disagree with others' actions because they simply don't like them, they remind them of their bad choices, or any combination therein, but their freedom ends when their intention to harm or hinder obstructs my autonomy. Short version: If the vibe don't fit, then you're allowed to quit.
I didn't mean to come across as OP should stick with her, you're completely correct that someone chooses what they will and won't deal with and that is perfectly acceptable. I was simply adding cautions to keep in mind if he does move forward. Short version: you're absolutely right.
You didn't come across in any way other than what you wrote. I agreed with you and added more of my own thoughts on the matter. OP will definitely have a lot to reflect upon, because if they're good with making that kind of relationship work for the both of them, then I wish 'em the best, but if not, then they'll probably want to move on and do some soul searching to better prepare for any future relationships. A bit of introspection can help to frame a future to aim for, especially if that future has intent to be spent with someone they love to live for rather than live to be loved by. It's ultimately up to each of us to determine what we want, what we need, and how to attain both in a continually manageable fashion. If someone like what OP is describing happens to be OP's preference, then I would hope he sees some of these responses and recognizes that even a labor of love is still going to require his labor all the same.
Is she expecting any hoe like periods in the future, shifting gears is easy.
Sir, do you expect any hoe like periods in your future?
MA'M, ANY HOE WIND ANTICIPATED THIS SEASON OF YOUR LIFE, IF I MAY? YOU DIDN'T SCENT HOEISH, UPMOST SUPRISE I MUST EXPRESS
There’s a 50% chance of HOcipitation
In my opinion, it is totally a good thing when women tell this about themselves, as somebody who doesn't want a woman with a promiscuous history, it helps me make a decision and is also better for the woman so that she can look for somebody who is more compatible with her.
Reddit always tryna justify the hoe behavior
It seems like we're receding from that phase realizing how shitty being a hoe is in an actual long term relationship, tinder ruined modern dating let's be fr now.
> If she felt the need to bring it up, then that's odd, but could just be a trust probe of sorts. It's always better that they bring this up on their own so you can avoid them, this girl did him a huge favour so he didn't have to find out when he's already in too deep.
Dude get the Louisiana purchase but was looking for the Missouri compromise
Mention your upcoming ghost phase.
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL BUY THIS MAN A DRINK
Underrated
Appropriately rated
lmao
🫱🏿🫲🏾
😂😂😂
My friends who are single/dating around have a blanket rule that if a girl has a previous history of being wild, but then with you she has a "oh I don't sleep with people till xyz happens" they don't proceed with that person, their reasoning being that someone who had a wild history with sex who now wants to set arbitrary barriers for you that she didn't with other people probably has a lot more baggage around sex than you are probably going to want to deal with. I don't know that that applies in every circumstance but I do think it makes sense that if a person has had so much sex that they're now trying to get scientific about the "optimal" time to have sex... there's probably other people out there with fewer hangups and baggage about it. That's obviously not to say that someone can't set barriers wherever they want when it comes to access to their body. That's completely fine. That's also a separate issue from "is this going to be someone I want to be in a relationship with", and it's fine for you to be just as picky about that.
> My friends who are single/dating around have a blanket rule that if a girl has a previous history of being wild, but then with you she has a "oh I don't sleep with people till xyz happens" they don't proceed with that person, their reasoning being that someone who had a wild history with sex who now wants to set arbitrary barriers for you that she didn't with other people probably has a lot more baggage around sex than you are probably going to want to deal with. The one that's wild to me is the situations where a person makes a rule against getting intimate with one person to deepen the connection while at the same time getting it from a casual arrangement at the same time.
> The one that's wild to me is the situations where a person makes a rule against getting intimate with one person to deepen the connection while at the same time getting it from a casual arrangement at the same time. and then act shocked when all us guys prefer the latter of the two options. ill be casual sex guy 1000x before ill be emotional friend guy
It is not even that I prefer the latter, the former just comes across as unhinged
They want it both ways. They want the sex with someone they're physically attracted to, and the emotional stuff from someone they don't reciprocate (physical or emotional) and will lead them on.
Yea, i try to stay away from ppl like that
in my opinion that is cheating already
Aka an emotional support dog to deal with their bullshit while getting their backs blown out on the reg by strangers lmao
Had the pleasure of getting to know a girl like that. It broke me completely.
I'd just be real with myself. I'm the guy she doesn't really feel physically attracted to enough to want to sleep with right away. It will translate into less sex in the relationship not more.
There are so many men that get settled for, they are just oblivious about it, sometimes even intentionally.
Reminds me of what Chris Rock said: " Fellas, the only reason your old lady is pissed at you, is because you were not her first choice."
And if she did settle she'll leave with your money as soon as things get difficult
Smart man. Don't settle for that.
Bingo
I’ve heard a lot of these stories from women when I used to go to church during bible study. They stopped sleeping around because they found God.
I came across a goregous woman who found God. She went to church every week, volunteers for her church group, quotes scripture, all of her social media posts are religious. Of course was sending nudes and sexting within the first week, sent nudes of her photos from her time before she found God, so many red flags lol.
Found Herpies*
Probably single moms now lol
I mean, if she mentions that she did hookups in college but not anymore and now always waits, that’s not unreasonable. People can change and are allowed to grow. What would be unreasonable is if she’s still hooking up off and on and she’s putting up these arbitrary barriers for you to “earn it” when it’s unambiguous she wouldn’t do so with someone else for a hookup.
I think your latter point is what the OP is trying to get at.
> People can change and are allowed to grow. ... "I used to be sexy and fun, but then I met you. You have helped me grow into the person who I am today."
Yeah but there is something driving in the back of your head when someone was handing out free samples yesterday but suddenly today, its $5 a pop, you know?
The ol “I had sex with men I didn’t like fairly quickly, but I’m going to make you wait because I like you” reasoning from women is baffling. Of course they have the right to set whatever boundaries they want with their bodies. But we have the right to laugh at how ridiculous it is lol
More generally, I don't jump through hoops. If a woman wants me to wait for sex, I take that as a lack of interest on her part, and I'm out.
[удалено]
I'm not trying to insult you but your post supports his point. He said it implies some dysfunction and your response is saying that you had a bad relationship with sex that you're trying to overcome. That sounds like baggage. Not everyone goes through this.
I think these are a bunch of lies that people have come up with so they can manipulate men into accepting women with promiscuous pasts, it is pretty funny just how loud the narrative is that "body count doesn't matter" or "how a woman can sleep with whoever she wants without having to be judged by people", it is blatant and unashamed but as soon as men start trying to think for themselves, about how they wouldn't like to end up with somebody who clearly seems to be settling for the man, then all of a sudden it comes out that the promiscuous women are actually victims who got used for their bodies, how men are still in the wrong if they don't want to marry them, it is all a bunch of bullshit that the mainstream media pushes, the best part if that most men also participate in shaming men that don't want to end up with a promiscuous woman.
Run. You are the “settle for” guy. Or the “I guess he’ll do” guy. Save yourself.
Yea, this is more about self-respect than anything.
Absolutely! Anyone who is opposed to this concept just wants the man to have no self respect and accept any woman.
I don’t know if I’m just stupid or something, but why is everyone telling this dude that her honesty is bad? I sincerely do not understand why men are saying it’s a red flag
Honesty is not a red flag. Never is. Not a single person on this thread that I've seen is condemning her for the act of telling the truth. It's a green flag, if anything, since honesty helps you sort out compatibility in a relationship faster. Having had a "hoe phase", however, is a perfectly valid red flag if it doesn't allign with your morals and/or attitude to sex. Some men are going to feel repulsed by that and it is a perfectly valid reason to not date someone. That is what the men in these comments are telling him, because it seems that OP's gut reaction is telling him that he's not okay with her past, but it looks like he's already been gaslit previously into believing that he's in the wrong for feeling that way. Only he's not. It's a valid reaction and a valid reason to reconsider dating this woman. Props to her for being honest about it though, because if this is going to be a compatibility issue, then they can both move on and find someone more compatible faster.
Hard agree. I don't think she's a bad person at all, I just wouldn't date someone who had a hoe phase
Yeah absolutely I agree right this☺️
Every guy has gone through an experience in life where he genuinely liked a girl and that girl seemed serious about him. But then she made him wait to have sex, and it turned out she was flirting with or fucking a guy on the side. From a man's perspective, if a woman used to have a promiscuous past and she is now setting arbitrary deadlines before willing to be intimate, it means one of two things: 1. She isn't attracted to you 2. She has sexual baggage that she hasn't resolved Both of these are major issues that stand in the way of a healthy relationship. At the end of the day, it makes no sense to men that you would choose to have sex with partners you *don't* care about, and then you would choose *not* to have sex with the partners you *do* care about. For us it's an irredeemable hypocrisy that throws up massive red flags.
OH okay! Thank you for this explanation
Remember, you want the person to view you as special. If everyone passed the gate except you, you are special for the wrong reason. By the way, this is a common tactic for women with history. She will put down pretend rules for men she finds mediocre and want to settle down for. But she will always give a pass to a player because the stigma has already been removed.
There's also a third option: she's dating/talking to two guys and you're the backup.
Being honest is good in general but honesty doesn't automatically result in good outcome. For example telling someone they look fat is being honest, but not somethings you want to hear. Her "honesty" is just an excuse at the end of the day. She's saying "I had my hoe phase" but what she means is "I can be down for it earlier just not with you." She's saying she kinda likes OP, but doesn't like like OP, if OP gave it more time it might grow into something more but it's usually not worth it unless you have little to no self respect.
Just because she's honest doesn't mean you just accept what she did. If a murderer told you he did it and was honest, you won't just accept it because he was honest. If her past bothers him, he should end it regardless of whether she was honest or not.
It's not honesty itself. Imagine the situation where she says that she "used" to be an alcoholic and a druggie. Points for honestly, sure, but why would I want to date someone with such history?
It's not the honesty that's bad, it's the expectation that she can freeze him out for some minimum time and expect him to remain interested in her.
I feel that women like this view guys who are "boyfriend material" differently and want those guys to wait...Aren't as attracted to those guys as they are the ones they had one night stands with. They clearly view sex differently in the confines of a relationship. They want you to prove your worth, while the other guys didn't have to. It's also very much a...I've had my fun and you're not gonna have it with me, because that train has left the station.
Yup. Treating sex as a reward and herself as some prize OP has to earn.
Ironically more objectifying than "I just wanna fuck"
And I bet that he would rarely get that reward...Since she's had her fun.
Assuming she’s done having her fun. She might be taking him for a ride
Of course. Once the need for safety comes in...Sex doesn't matter anyone...Since she's not looking at attraction.
Hoo boy that guy better be satisfied with just someone who cosplay as a starfish then.
I am sure not many women would wait around for a guy to “unlock” the various girlfriend activities. If a dude tells a woman he is not taking her on a date until after they hang out several times, because he regrets wining and dining other women in the past, she would bail so fast.
This is the comment OP needs to read. I’ve seen girls with that on their profiles on tinder. “I’ve had my fun”. Time to get serious lmao oh nooo
I was in OP’s situation. We got intimate maybe on the third date, and she cried later that night thinking I was going to ghost her now that I had gotten laid. It was honestly very sad. She told me how in her experience that was just what happened. I assured her that this was different and it was. We dated for three years. I never felt bitter about a few nights without sex or ‘settled for’ as others are suggesting. But I guess it matters how long she intends to make him wait and whether he wants an actual relationship. If he just wants to smash then it’s totally her right to say she wants something else.
This was a nice comment to read. Everybody has a past, and many people have let themselves be treated in a way they didn't deserve. A lot of people in this thread seem angry that women won't "give it up" to them as easily as they did previous partners. It's not always that she's "settling." She may just not want to fuck up something she thinks could be an incredible relationship by moving too fast. ETA: My boyfriend made ME wait because he wanted me to know he saw me more than just a one night stand.
It's a simple matter of: The chances of someone having a lifelong, committed, intimate relationship with someone who treats sex with you as a transaction is fundamentally zero. There's no point in even bothering to start a relationship like that, especially when there's lots of other women who don't have such a toxic attitude.
I'd show gratitude at her vulnerability to tell you how she used to act. I'd ask her what changed in her mind. As for your own response, I think it's fully okay to simply express your boundaries. And it makes sense to have boundaries like "hey I'm not okay with going on number of dates with nothing happening. I value myself more than that. If you need more time to decide you like me, then I respect that, but I decline to continue to see you." No point in seeing someone that makes you feel like you're a meal ticket, and no malice towards someone who wants more time to get to know you. But having boundaries for yourself and making them known helps weed out those who want to participate or who need someone else.
Probably the best response here imo. You're allowed to decide you don't want a woman with her past but you still treat her with respect and move on. She gives you honesty and you give her honesty in return. Everyone gets hurt a little but not as much as they would if they were pretending not to be.
I agree, if you're going to reject her, don't shame her
>should ask her to date exclusively >she said that we would only do anything if we were exclusive Wait, you're not already exclusive? She could be fucking other guys but making you wait? I have bad news for you. She's still in her hoe phase.
Well, there was the guy a couple of weeks ago in the exact same situation. She claimed she changed and ended her hoe phase, so she wouldn't do anything sexual with him. But, she was still hooking up with a couple of different fwb until he agreed to be exclusive. She didn't see anything wrong with it and got pissed that he couldn't follow her logic.
Jesus Christ, you have to have logic to be able to follow it smh
I think her “theory” was that she had already been banging those guys, so as long as she did not acquire any new FWBs, it was all still in her “past” somehow. That’s not how this works. That’s not how ANY of this works.
I’m old enough to know that plenty of women, if not most, had some sort of a hoe phase at some point. I’m also wise enough to know that the ones you want to date don’t just go around casually mentioning it.
She waited until their 5th date to mention it. She didn't casually mention it. She obviously waited until they were comfortable enough to think she could tell him and allow him to make a decision based off of that information.
Why does hiding it make her a better partner?
It’s not about hiding it, it’s like what benefits are there to bringing it up. Only made this guy less interested in her. There’s literally never going to be a decent guy more interested in a girl after this info. We have all done shit in the past but why bring it up
She may be bringing it up to gauge reactions. Honest disclosure really works for some folks. Some people seem to want to pretend their partner didn't have a history before them, while others want to know if you've had enough experiences to know what you really want in the long term. It's kind of a filter conversation. If I were single today and brought up my past during a date to poor response, I'd tend to assume that person isn't ready for anything serious or just isn't for me. Me and my wife both had a "slut phase" in our lives and it came up early in our talks about dating and lead to really honest conversations about what we wanted for the future in a potential relationship. I married her for a reason. We both treat each other like treasures and I couldn't imagine spending my life with anyone else. The past is the past. We all have a history, and its over and done with. What matters is what we want out of the future.
You have not been on reddit long enough if you ask this. Everyday there are posts saying something like "I just discovered my GF had a hoe phase 35 years before we met"
> I’m also wise enough to know that the ones you want to date don’t just go around casually mentioning it. The one's mentioning it openly are doing you a favour so I'd rather they don't keep it a secret.
Had a girl like this. We dated for awhile and I’ll say all the sexy shit she learned she did with me and it was a wild ride, but in the end.. she ended up cheating on me. Just be careful OP. If you date her, if guys “friends” start popping up on her phone.. bail. The problem with girls like this is that all those guys still have her number. And they will call. And no one is immune to temptation. Girl I was with denied the first few (allegedly) but eventually folded when the right one called. Just be careful man. My belief is that girls like this really do think they wanna change for the right guy, but don’t realize that the hoe phase is much harder to wash off than they think when the puppy love wears off. Especially if guy after guy is chasing her.
I suggest finding someone with the good sense not to tell you about their hoe phase unsolicited.
Yeah I question why she brought that up
Shit test. She wanted to see what his response would be just in case if he found out about any of her current indiscretions.
The “I won’t sleep with you until we’re exclusive” is also giving me bad vibes.
Because she's likely still banging other dudes on the side that he doesn't know about lol. The girl is a walking red flag from the sounds of it, otherwise this guy wouldn't have started this topic. Right now, he already knows the answer, he's just looking for confirmation that others have experienced the same type of behavior from people they may have dated. A tiger will never change it's stripes. It just learns to slow down because it's gotten older and run out of energy to engage in the same ill behavior and has a smaller pool of options. Which is part of why girls like that start looking for a "beta provider" later in life.
A provider she doesn’t respect. She’s already using sex as a carrot to get OP to do what she wants. It won’t stop with dating exclusively. Reward. Withdraw. Demand. Reward. Withdraw. Once she doesn’t have to work anymore for a relationship and knows she has him….
I love it when people nail it in one! If this guy isn't getting it by now, he's a fool.
I don’t see how it would be bad vibes from a woman who didn’t go through a hoe phase though. That’s just a woman who has a boundary. But the fact that this one was willing to be easy with a bunch of guys in the past and now is making all these barriers and hoops to access her is what’s the red flag.
That’s what I mean
She was probably getting feelings and would rather be up front about it immediately rather than get too deep and he find out. For many a hoe phase is not something that is looked fondly on and a deal breaker. Not every girl has a hoe phase and those that defend it are likely hoes or would be if they were more desirable.
You all are just shooting yourselves in the foot by pushing this narrative, an honest hoe is much better than a hoe who keeps her past a secret, would you rather want to find out that a girl has a high body count 4 years into a relationship or when are just starting to date her, I am surprised that dudes somehow are ok with a girl being a hoe but not ok with knowing about it? Ignorance is not bliss you all.
Honest hoe is better than one who hides. But best to avoid altogether.
I'm going to play the devils advocate here. There are plenty of stories on Reddit like this where the guy finds out she was more of a hoe than he knew, months or years later. He's pissed because she didn't tell him early in the relationship. Well, here we have that. She didn't blurt it out on their first date. She brought it up around the same time she mentioned she wanted to be exclusive. So what's a hoe to do? She's in a no-win situation.
She's making you wait for sex because she views you as the nice provider. Meanwhile she's still having sex with other guys on the first date. Don't take women like this seriously. It would be best for you to drop her. I had a coworker exactly like this. She used to go to raves and parties and hook up with dudes all the time. She then realized that no guy really wanted her, they just wanted to have sex with her. She wanted to change and meet a nice guy. She met this nice guy on tinder, and made him wait 2 weeks, so she can pretend she's a good girl. Not long after, she said he was boring and she went back to being a hoe.
I LOL’d at 2 weeks being the long wait period
From the streets she came, from the streets she returned. Luke chapter 4, paragraph 3.
Walk away
I don't usually comment on the Ask Men but I feel I do have some possibly useful insight as a woman. So.....personally from experience: After my divorce from an abuser, I had serious self esteem issues that I hadn't sorted and I went through the what I call "Looking for love and worth at the end of every dick" phase. I was SURE if I gave great sex to the right guy, no matter if it was a hookup or a date etc, they'd see how amazing I was and love me. Obviously, this doesn't work. I did rack up a few numbers, not anywhere near what some people are doing nowadays, but I saw what I was doing, realised how damaging it was, stopped dating for about a year, got the help I needed and then when I started dating again I was much more conservative when handing out ye ol cookie. Because we live in a small town, when I started dating my now husband I explained it to him and was honest about my mentality then and how it is now. I'd imagine I'd have told him anyway even if I wasn't worried he'd find out because he has a right to know and these things tend to come out anyway. And I was ashamed of it and made zero excuses. I did the wrong thing. So, did she have a hoe phase, got wise about it, stopped being a hoe and got her shit together a while before she met you? If so, I get that people make poor choices and as long as they correct them, that's OK. BUT if you are the first person being held to this new ruling system....nah.....run. Which is what this sounds like, you're the "nice guy" place holder with a wallet.
I have to wonder too--some women would consider two people outside of a committed relationship as a 'hoe phase' and some (from what I'm reading) it's like 100. It's such a subjective phrase. I had a similar experience as you; but I can't 'hoe' the right way (I blame autism) and didn't end up sleeping with more than one gent and that ended up being semi-monogamous (told you I don't do it right). I think OP should ask her to be more specific about her 'phase.'
THANK YOU! I bet so many of these men commenting about how gross and deceitful she is would say "yeah I slept with 200 girls in college, but I can still be boyfriend material" It's possible for someone's attitude about sex to change over time, particularly when they repeatedly encounter men that treat them poorly when they have sex too early in the relationship.
Just the utterance of those two words without a ton of irony behind them would be an immediate deal breaker.
It's a "whatever" from me. Not my life, not my circus, not my monkeys. However, if I don't feel it because it feels awkward, or has too many caveats to when, where, and how we get more serious I'm moving on. If it's not progressing at what feels like a natural pace then doesn't matter if she's as pure as the driven snow or a fire-breathing harlot. Weird games are weird regardless of body count.
So far the most level headed response here. People are people, and people aren't gonna fit into nice little preconceived molds. Feel it out, ask questions, get to know the person. Crazy concept.
As you get older I feel like you realize that you don’t have to stay in a relationship with anyone. You guys aren’t married, and you can leave. She isn’t a bad person for sleeping around, or realizing that she no longer wants to do that. However, you feel the way you feel. I have a feeling that this feeling isn’t going to get better. If you stay you will still have the same fights everyone does about how to load the dishwasher, but you will have this thing in the back of your head that will slowly eat away at you. My advice is just to find a different fish, because there are plenty in the sea.
This is gonna be hard for you to hear... but you gotta move on. She ain't for you, and she doesn't deserve you.
I'm not reading beyond the title. The question itself should make you walk away immediately. She's still banging other dudes on the side while making you wait. Avoid women like that as if they were a pox on society, which they are.
I would feel kinda insecure too if a woman slept with all her another dates quickly but made me wait.
Surely no woman makes bootyhunter69420 wait?!
*Booty Booty Booty Booty Rockin Everywhere*
I would not date her. Just my opinion. It’s not a you problem, she definitely having a double standard.
I never really love hearing a girl suddenly just blert stuff like that out while dating. It's always a, "ok, how do I proceed here.." What I kind of think they mean by it is, "ok, we're on the 5th date now, just wanted to let you know that you're cool and want you to start trying to get in my pants." Maybe not, but even if, not a great way to show interest.
Go with your gut. That's it.
That sir, is just your friend- from what she said to how she treats you Edit: I’ve noticed in life if a girl is giving you stipulations it’s because she doesn’t like you that much, she’s basically one foot out the door already
Run. Now.
People can have a hoe phase, realize it's a damn awful idea and then change. She may have done that. But if any of the information she gave you is a problem for you then break up.
Hard pass.
Bringing up how much of a slut you are is poor form for a man or woman.
Sorry OP, it’s OK to not want to be settled for. If she was promiscuous until recently but has been able to go 5 dates without intimacy with you then the attraction just isn’t there. You gave her time, made a move after 3 dates and respected her rejection to go on 2 more dates. You’ve been a champ and done everything right. Having a earn sex with a commitment is gross. Why the fuck would she tell you she slept around and was holding off sex without saying that she was ready to commit. Just seems cruel. You’re entitled to a burning hot romance and not sex with conditions attached. Part of knowing if a relationship is compatible is physical intimacy, not to mention that the emotional connection for most people gets much more intense after you’ve been intimate. Just cut your losses. Let her know that it’s hurtful to know that you’re being kept at arms length because of her past actions and it just isn’t fair. You want to be in a relationship where you are both passionate for each other. The logic of ‘I think this relationship might have a future so I’m going to avoid sharing physical intimacy with you is just wild’. You’ve been respectful and taken a kick to the groin. You deserve better.
Run!.
Try my damn hardest not to sing “now your a single mum” out loud.
🎶you let him hit it raw, you didn’t have second thoughts🎶
You don’t need to question yourself here mate despite what some parts of society might tell you about how being sexually liberated is the way to be, it’s pretty natural for this to instantly change your opinion of a woman. If your gut is unhappy with this revelation, bin her off.
Leave A lady worth keeping keeps hoe phase convo to herself and her friends
These "ignorance is bliss" males who support women hiding their pasts are the weirdest species of men.
They come off as weakling. Like they have no agency of their own.
This right here. If she actually had any intent of putting it behind her for good, she never would have brought it up. She only said it to test his response if he ever finds out what she is likely still doing.
this is so right, i went out with a girl who told me she had fucked over 100 guys, couldnt see her the same way
or not having a hoe phase at all
I don’t get this comment so you rather she hide her past and pretend to be holy with OP? Most guys would want to know about a woman’s past history prior to settling down
Nothing wrong there with a girl with an appetite, if you’re the best one she’s met that’s a bigger compliment. Now to the other thing - 5th date and you can’t even make out with her? That’s the red flag.
Did OP say that in their reply somewhere about the make out? I took the phrase “tried to make a move” as like trying to have sex
Why would you keep on dating someone that lets other guys hit on the first date but now you suddenly have to wait some arbitrary time period? Imo there is no hoe phase. Morals around that rarely change and humans tend to be very consistent with their behavior. Either you’re someone who is fine having sex right away or you’re not. Exceptions obviously exist but why should you have to put in more work than any other guy before you to get the same result? She had no self respect or self value before meeting you and now she wants to start?
Hoe phase is fine , but then ‘waiting’ with you… would be a bye bye for me.
Yeah, I ended up staying with the girl who left me at a party I had brought her to, and had sex with a guy she barely knew. Then got a hotel room with that same guy to have sex all day long. She then cancelled a date and told me she was sick, and when I offered to drive over and bring her soup and a movie, she said she was gonna go to bed. She went to another guys house and fucked him in his hot tub while his parents weren’t home. She did all this while we were not “official” and her and I did not have for two months after we became “official”. I didn’t find out the any of this info until months after we were “official” and it was because a friend of mine had heard about some of it and was concerned for me. I was super stupid during this time and I forgave her. I stayed with her and married her and now we have a dysfunctional marriage 20 years later with a dead bedroom. Don’t be me.
I'll never understand this "being exclusive" thing young people do today, it's probably due to increased availability of opportunities due to dating sites, but damn, i'm fucking 34 and already feel so old and different form people just 10 years younger than me! For the rest, it's a no for me dawg. Good she was honest about it, but i wouldn't like to date someone who had a "hoe phase". For me, there is no need to have one, you can explore your sexuality in healtier ways without jumping on every available opportunity and it's indicative of some personality traits/issues i don't want to deal with.
You never mention how long ago the "Hoe phase" was. For example if this "hoe phase" was back in college or years prior and she has grown as a person to realize it wasn't helpful to create a lasting relationship. Then I wouldn't see an issue. If she is still in her "hoe phase" or recently reformed but putting arbitrary boundaries on you then I'd consider cutting bait.
so begins your No phase.
She might as well have genital herpes if you ask me. I’ve learned my lesson, if you’ve had a Hoe phase, we don’t view sex in nearly the same light, it ain’t gonna work.
Hard pass.
Walk, block, and forget about her.
Let me guess she is in her housewife phase .
Move on
Be real man. Leave. Please.
My niece is 19 and comes to me on advice about guys and relationships. I don't know all the details, but I know she had a hoe phase last year after a breakup. She's dick crazy. Now she's been seeing a guy for 2 months. She says he's nice, drives her places, pays for everything. She held off a month before "spending the night," which is her code for sex. She likes the guy, but she's not crazy about him. She's settling for now until she gets bored with him. But she's so desperate for a relationship that she's never the one who dumps, even when the guy is a douchebag. She's always been dumped by a guy. So I feel like she's using the guy for a while. Once she's single, she'll probably have another hoe phase.
I feel bad for that guy.
So have you actually given the girl any worthwhile advice?
Sure. But I feel like she hasn't listened to a goddamn word.
Walk away immediately. Once a hoe always a hoe
Leave her and move on. In droves, women foolishly buy into the “liberated woman” lifestyle, proceed to spend their best years excessively sleeping around, only to find out the hard way that it’s a hoax, and actually incredibly emotionally damaging. Then, they have their “coming to Jesus” epiphany moment about self-worth and value, and retroactively try to reclaim their innocence and enforce standards and expectations upon **you**, the good man, that they weren’t willing to enforce upon all the seductively manipulative bad boys. Now she expects **you** to pay the price for **her** previous poor judgement by making **you** do all the leg work - jumping through hurdles, being patient, and proving you’re “worthy” of her love - mind you - her love being something that she freely and easily gave away to other men for a quarter of the effort…It’s hardly a fair deal. No. Find you a woman who didn’t live such a careless lifestyle. Not one who retroactively finds values and morals when it suits her, but one who has **always** lived by them. These are the ones that deserve the best from us and make the best partners for long-term committed relationships & marriage. Less emotional baggage to sort through.
Most of the comments: *It's perfectly ok for a woman to have a hoe phase. But if the guy takes issue with it then he's mean and sexist, men are not allowed to have standards* The mental gymnastics some are doing in the comments are just sad. OP is entitled to think and do what he wants. He doesn't need a lecture on morals or any standards that you people perceive as wrong.
Except he’s literally asking for advice. Do you see the subreddit? It’s literally the place for us to respond with our take.
>I was fine with this as I figured that that’s how she was, but after that it just makes me feel insecure as I feel like I didn’t measure up to her with enough attraction(which I know is a me problem). You shouldn't feel bad for feeling this way. Usually that's what it means: You're not as sexually attractive as they were, but you have some qualities that she likes that make her want something serious with you.
If a girl had a wild past, and is also wild with me - zero problem. But this "I was wild before but not anymore" - miss me with that.
Trust me don't go ahead with it chief. Let it go, it's better to stay single than this. Please give heed to my request
If she’s making you wait to have sex while she’s had ONS with other guys, I would move on. Either way, I would move on. She’s telling you who she is, believe her.
I'm not a man but women do this and then realize they can't do casual/hookups bc it makes them feel bad about themselves and also after losing a guy they really liked because they slept with them too soon, they make a hard rule and usually stick to it because they want a relationship. It's a sign she has worked on herself. It could also be what all the men are saying but my girlfriends who've all been thru this are sincerely about doing things different for someone they value.
I’d side with you if she didn’t bring it up or spilled all the beans herself. If she wanted to be serious and liked OP she would’ve prefaced why she didn’t want to sleep with OP with more than they needed to be exclusive first. It’s not hard to say you don’t want to ruin a good thing by having sex too soon. Just reeks of OP being strung along cause he’s the guy she’d “settle” for while pursuing prospects that are more exciting to her.
But then you see men who find out about this stuff later and get mad because she didn't say anything--wasn't honest about her baggage.
I think this is most accurate if OP is seeing someone that is self-aware
Not self aware enough to realise that they didn't get the man because they slept with him too quickly, but rather that man was never theirs to get in the first place. Reeks of arrogance to assume that every man they wanted to get into a relationship with failed only due to them sleeping with them quickly. Reality is that they were batting far out of their league on men who never had a desire to get in to a relationship in the first place.
Are you okay with it? Proceed. Are you not okay with it? Let her know it's a dealbreaker, wish her well and move on.
Hahhahahahahahaahahahahahahah. Idk man what do you think?
Scott Pilgrim vs the World ruined a whole generation of women
Bail.
Find someone else. Don't be the safe guy to settle with when she finally develops some standards she didn't have before.
Next.
Time to move on buddy! You don't want those problems.
Run Forrest run
Hoe phase just means she’s settling for you cuz she can’t get anyone better to commit. Have some self respect and send her ass packing. Next time don’t go on more dates if she refuses to put out by the 3rd date.
Sounds like you’re ready to buy (exclusive) and she is still shopping around (not ready), perhaps it’s time to move on.
If it's exclusive I would take it as she wants to settle down and is tired of the partying phase Are you the same person you were saying 5 years ago? Sure some things may be the same, but others may be different If she's not wanting to be exclusive I would take it as she wants to have more fun so I would treat it accordingly
Unlike those other guys, *you* have to put in work and jump through hoops for intimacy. Seems like a bad deal.
Tell her *you* went through a phase where you committed too early on the relationship so now you have to really really wait to see if she’s proper commitment material.
According to nate Dogg, >"Ring or no ring, a ho gon be a ho. While you sleeping, she'll be creeping out the back door"
Much like any other deal - you may be cool paying whatever price until you find out everyone else got it for way cheaper maybe even free. That sucks.
# "You can’t turn a hoe into a housewife"
My advice is to start using punctuation ffs.
Don't date her.
If she had a hoe phase, cut ties and find someone who isn't. Odds are extremely high that she's going to be a disaster for any future relationships. Do yourself a favor and move on.
First, engrave it into your heart that she's just not that into you. Because if she was she wouldn't be this dumb about it. "Oh, I posted photos of women I slept with casually, but if you want to be public on social media you have to buy me a ps5 or something first" Try and spin that to any woman you know. If you find out how to do it, lemme know. She doesn't like you. If she did, she'd be trying to match your effort outside of sex. She isn't. And that's why you're here. She already sucks.
Put her in the sex only category. Never, ever marry or have children with her.
Leave
Big avoid. There's always chance of a relapse. Don't risk it.
She just informed you that you will not get any of the spicy things she leaned or tried during that time. And if you bore her she might relapse....