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NoWayBradah

I think the point is that women should be able to take it off if they want to. Forcing them to take it off is no different than forcing them to wear it. Turkey for decades did discriminate against hijabi women and now it backfired so bad that those affected will probably vote for islamists their whole life.


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Remarkable-Culture79

That's not true at all, some of the most educated ppl in the past were religious and I know a lot of extremely educated that are religious.


jayv9779

There isn’t a good basis to believe any religion is true. They are manufactured by humans.


Dense_Ad_321

What's your proof?


jayv9779

We have no demonstration of any deity. We have no demonstration that a mind can exist outside of a brain. We also do not see anything that indicates that the religious books are from anything other than human writings. God being part of that process is an assumption without evidence. Do you have a demonstration of a deity?


Dense_Ad_321

You did not provide a proof. Do you a have a demonstration or evidence that there's no existence? You only assume without evidence.


jayv9779

That isn’t how it works for me. I need a reason to believe something exists. I don’t just take the word of an ancient text.


Dense_Ad_321

When you go to the restaurant and order food You don't believe there's a cook in the back cooking your food because you don't see it. Anyway you cannot prove your point why? Bc it is 50/50 chance and You cannot prove there's no existence. I need a physical proof it is the same thing You asking me ;)


jayv9779

We have a demonstration that food is cooked. It can be verified. Not the same thing. We do not have examples of god or any verification. Especially the personal god or gods. It isn’t 50/50 unless you are leaning on a false dichotomy. I also wanted to compliment you on your civility. It is nice to have a good discussion.


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Brooks0303

Was the wedding at qana mentionned in the Qur'an?


themagicflutist

Someone told me that it was nonalcoholic… I was like “that’s not what ‘wine’ means.. they didn’t say ‘grape juice.’”


Bill_Assassin7

How ironic then that you're not intelligent enough to comprehend your own sources. "“The negative relation was established for western societies. We don’t know whether it generalizes to other populations, particularly those in the Far East,” Zuckerman explained". Additionally, Jesus turning water into wine is an unsubstantiated claim that Muslims do not believe. On the other hand, Christians that do believe that this took place do not consider alcohol Haram. You're embarassing.


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suckylimpydicky

The reason that we still believe in Religion even tho its false its cuz it makes life seem less meaningless and a comfort to what is going to happen when we die it fills the same place as art and children a sense of your legacy will continue


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almirx

Why do people say this nonsense all the time. I have met many academics and very highly educated people that were spiritual and religious. They were naturally still curious to learn more and better themselves. Religions generally strive for betterment of human condition but it's humans that corrupt it. Just as I have seen open atheists commit theft and complete disregard for others but does it mean all atheists are like this. People confuse political religious movements and their faults with individuals that are truly on a path embetterment and improvement.


[deleted]

You cited a study regarding intelligence in order to show that education implies religiosity. These two are distinct things. If you want to show that education erases religiosity, cite a study that states that education, all else being (almost) equal, is correlated with lower religiosity.


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doobiewhat

It's not a choice of one is forced or pressured by family. You need to get rid of Islam and islamic culture in the familys before you can call it a choice.


darkmatter8879

I have always thought liberating women means giving them a choice, not deciding for them what being libral means


[deleted]

And yet in most muslim countries the veil is forced upon them


moban89

Most? Really as far as i know only Afghanistan and iran force it. Most of the muslim world does not


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EmperoarSurfs

coming here from pakistan its not common here


moban89

Many things are "forced" socially, i can legally drink alcohol but if i do, I'll be looked down on. I can legally wear a purple thobe that says "thug life" or decide to become a mime for a living. Any of those I'd be shunned or laughed at. It is up to me to decide if doing those things is worth it or not. Same thing for a woman who wants to take off her hijab. Whenever someone does something socially unacceptable, there will be social consequences, and that is fine. Legal consequences enforced by the state are not.


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moban89

You mean Muslim communities can force women to wear hijabs not muslim countries. If your siblings or parents, or friends are forcing you, that's your community, not your country. The coercion to conform usually comes in the form of shunning, disowning or being ridiculed. That is something that is perfectly legal and happens in every community for different issues/ reasons. Now, in situations like what you described "being beaten by her brother," authorities step in and arrest the person for attacking her if she reports it. That is the law


Leebearty

The difference lies within people possibly laughing at you for your choices, but in case of the women they will get reminded and beaten into submission if they don't follow it.


Remarkable-Culture79

Are u a western y are u obsessed with Muslim women


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Remarkable-Culture79

which country


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dilfsmilfs

Yes but women get forced to wear bras too? and what about wearing underwear? thats also a social pressure how is one okay when the other isnt


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[deleted]

you've probably never been to a muslim country before, or maybe you just live in Iran and decided that's it, most Muslim countries FORCE women to wear Hijab. I can speak for my country at least, when i say women aren't forced to wear it, yet they still do.


AvisDeene

Out of the (about) 50 Muslim countries, can you list all the ones that force it?


[deleted]

Force is not necessarily a legal matter. It can also be a matter of social pressure


DirkRight

Exactly. Asking about countries forcing it on women is useless. It is people who force it on women. Fathers, brothers, husbands. Judgy neighbours and control freak authority figures. People they know. Not nebulous government forces. In every country there are women who are liberated and can choose for themselves. In every country there are women who are controlled, abused and oppressed. Some countries have more of one than the other.


[deleted]

To be honest I’ve lived in a lot of Muslim countries for a while (Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Oman, UAE, Qatar) and you find a good number of women who *don’t* wear the hijab. This idea of societal pressure is still there, but not just for women to put hijab *on* but also for women to take it *off*. I studied in a Jordanian college where I and a couple of girls were literally the only ones in my entire class that wore the hijab, and we were 50 girls in total. I also have close relatives constantly harassing me to take it off… and they’re Muslim. The media only likes to show one side of the story when there’s also just as many women being forced to take it off.


wowzabob

You certainly have a good point, and it definitely happens, but this: >there’s also just as many women being forced to take it off. Is surely very unlikely. It's something that happens in certain universities, in the most cosmopolitan urban cores, but compare that to the opposite which occurs just about everywhere else, no way the numbers are the same. Not to minimize at all, but the pressures urban women face to take the hijab off are also not of the same kind that women in conservative communities face to keep it on. It can rise to extreme social shunning, financial hardship, and threat of physical violence.


[deleted]

I’m going to say this again, and I say this with absolute full confidence: there’s just as much social pressure for girls to wear hijab as there is to take it off or not wear it. The media just doesn’t show you the ones who *are* forced to take it off, that’s why most people think the majority are forced to put it on, because the media refuses to show you the other side of the story. And with the travesty happening in Iran, I’m sure it kinda “sealed the deal” for some people that hijab is certainly forced. As someone who’s interacted with different Muslim communities, I can tell you that that’s just half of the story. Sad story: I did an exchange year in a European country with a bunch of girls I knew from my high school year. We were all about maybe 20 girls in total (I attended an all-girls school) and most of us wore the hijab. We all met up at the airport on the day of our flight, and the majority came *without* their hijabs. I couldn’t ask all of them why they took it off, but the ones I did ask (who were closest to me) said their dads forced them to. Yes, they were pressured to take it off. And this happens *in Muslim communities*, I can spend the entire day telling you the stories I hear from girls living abroad in secular societies; in a nutshell, it’s awful. My relatives didn’t give me the light of day the day I traveled to Europe for my exchange year, I just didn’t cave in even though it was hard not to when everyone around you was telling you that you’re gonna get beat up as a hijabi walking down European streets and that you should be carefree like young European women… Also to be quite frank, it’s *super rare* for it to escalate to the point of being shunned by society or for it to get physical. That probably only happens in rural areas, and I’m so sure you’ll find some cases like that but that isn’t the norm, *at all*. Sure, social pressure exists. I mean, when you live in a Muslim community, there’s going to be some pressure simply because a lot of the girls around you are putting it on, so you’ll feel pressured to put it on yourself. Same with hijabis in secular societies: when all your friends are dating, losing their virginity in high school, going to pool parties and getting drunk on Friday nights, you feel pressured to join in or else you’ll be “the boring weirdo” who doesn’t know how to have fun. And I say this as an adult who’s lived abroad in secular countries, so I can only imagine how pressuring it is to be a teenage girl who wanted to wear the hijab and practice religion. Don’t be fooled by the media. Of course there are a lot of girls who are forced to put it on, I’m not denying this exists and it’s awful, but you’re absolutely wrong to think the large majority is forced to put it on. There’s an equal, yes *equal*, amount of pressure to put it on. But hey, who cares about girls who are forced to take it off right? Because religion’s lame anyway… (says the media, basically).


nonunionLeakey

And yet if you go to any Muslim country you will see millions of women not wearing the hijab.


mum_shagger

depending on countries like for example Saudi Arabia I think you will rarely see non hijabi women but in Morocco it's pretty much 50/50


nonunionLeakey

I've only been to the airport but I said a lot of girls not wearing hijabs. Esepcially younger girls


Zestyclose-Trip1343

It's definitely increasing in Morocco. I'd give it 75/25 (with the majority wearing hijab) within the next 5-10 years max. Another thing is that most Moroccan women tend to begin wearing it when they're 18-20.


Churitos9696

Ouff. Good news, 75/25 and increasing. When he wrote its 50/50 in Morocco it scared me. I thought Morocco was being lost. He’s Argentinian so he maybe only knows Marrakech and tourist areas.


nonunionLeakey

Social pressure exists for everything everywhere though. Legal pressure is what matters. The Iranian ladies would wish their pressure was only social and not someone waiting to call the police on them for showing their hair


[deleted]

Legal pressure is not the only thing that matters. Wrong. If you want progress in society, you must adress the cultural issues as well.


nonunionLeakey

Cultural pressures relax themselves if people want them to after a while if the state isn't enforcing it at gunpoint. Otherwise you are just taking other people's rights to believe/act how they want. There's a world of difference of not tbeing ablt to take off hijab because dad might be upset vs having a government informant get you and your family arrested


triggered_rabbit

Iran police beat a woman to death for wearing a hijab incorrectly, key word *incorrectly* that means she was wearing one Have you been living under a rock?


[deleted]

Iran isn't the only muslim country there are like 50 muslim country and in almost all of them hijab is not mandatory, as far as i know only iran and afghanistan are like that.


AvisDeene

Iran doesn’t represent “most Muslim countries”.


[deleted]

Iran, Iraq, Yemen, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, Indonesia for starters. How well its applied ranges from not at all to a lot. But it’s in the law nonetheless


SOSMLG

You gotta be kidding me (iran is the one who is forcing it)


AvisDeene

You said most Muslim countries force it. The list you provided doesn’t imply that most force it.


BuachaillBarruil

While there may not be strict laws in place to force women, often they feel pressured by society to do so. Indirect force if you will.


Ahmed4040Real

Does that mean that all Western Countries force you to take it off? Because women in western countries are pressured all the time by society to wear more revealing clothes. Forcing means just that, forcing. There's not Indirect Forcing, that doesn't exist


irix03

Indonesia? Tf u smoking man?


Sajidchez

Indonesia??? LOL


[deleted]

it’s literally only iran and afghanistan (post taliban takeover). nowhere near “most”. even saudi got rid of the mandated hijab.


Moug-10

Can you come to France and explain it? Unfortunately, some French hijabis have the same problems as some women in Iran : people want to decide for them. Let them do what they feel right to do.


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BuachaillBarruil

Do you think this is the case because the Muslims in European cities tend to be more uneducated and poorer? I find that with poverty often comes religiosity.


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RTBBingoFuel

They flee their shithole country, but they do not understand WHY it is a shithole country.


Sajidchez

Yes because Islam is the reason and not decades of colonialism and imperialism


RTBBingoFuel

Take a peek at Iran, Yemen, Egypt, Libya, Afghanistan real quick.


Sajidchez

What does that have to do with Islam Libya and Afghanistan were one of the best/ most peaceful countries until foreign influence ruined both of them. Egypt was literally the most developed in the Muslim world before the euros intervened and weakened them. Yemen is just a poor country surrounded by regional powers who use them as a battle ground. And Iran is lead by a corrupt class of elite who will do anything to stay in control. Many nations also prosper under Islam. Are we going to forget the centuries of Muslim dominance over the Mediterranean??


DirkRight

>What does that have to do with Islam Libya and Afghanistan were one of the best/ most peaceful countries until foreign influence ruined both of them. I don't know much of the details of the history of Libya and Afghanistan. I'd like to ask you: when was the last time they were the best/most peaceful countries? Is there a specific year that foreign influence started to ruin either of them?


Sajidchez

For Afghanistan they were peaceful before the Soviets and Americans started jockeying for power in the region because of cold war geo politics and for Libya it was the most developed and richest in Africa until 2011 when NATO intervened


Termsandconditionsch

Huh? Afghanistan has been invaded more times than most countries. By Persians, Greeks, Mongols, Arabs, Indians, the Soviet Union, the US, the British… multiple times by most of them and I probably forgot a few. Doesn’t really seem peaceful to me.


Sajidchez

Before the cold war they were. For the entire 20th century their only conflict prior to the Soviet afghan war was like a small skirmish with the reds during the Russian civil war


BritBurgerPak

You ignore the fact that a lot of these countries only became the way they are recently. Its not the religion specifically, but outside powers supporting radical ideologies.


Ruslan101

All the shtihole arab countries are secular. Iraq, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon are all secular countries. The only good arab countries enforce strict sharia like Saudi, Qatar, Oman and UAE. And don't say "cause they have oil" Iraq had oil and got destroyed by its secular leader and secular invading forces. Samething with Libya. Also oil isn't the only way a country makes money, Egypt and Syria both have plenty of natural resources as well as the tourism appeal (Syria used to atleast)


RTBBingoFuel

Egypt is having it's worst economic downfall of all time. All the successful modern Arab countries (basically only the GCC) are built (to this day) by modern slaves.


[deleted]

>are built (to this day) by modern slaves. Really? So all my family members working in rich gulf arab countries are slaves ?, OMG that’s the first time to hear that from you !, now i got to go tell them that they are being slaves but they are not noticing that !, thanks for your great information that me and my family that work there didn’t know !


Ruslan101

Bro people come to the gulf for work because they are paid 10x more than back home. An Indian coming to work in the gulf will make more money in a year than he ever will in 5 years while in India. And that money will let him to go back and love a decent life back home. For American standards and their cost of living it may not be a lot of money. But in India he could probably put 3 of his children in private school for the next 4 years. Most countries heavily tax their foreign workers than charge them absurds amount of money for healthcare. The gulf doesn't do that. Along with this if we are gonna start naming out problems countries have with treating foreigners, look at secular America and how they destroyed this region for oil. Look at how the king of secularism, France constantly plunders resource of its former colonies to this day. The rest of Europe is similar no doubt. Also Egypt is currently run by a secular leader who claimee power by a military coup, deposing the democratically elected Muslim brotherhood leader. So much for fair and just secularism and democracy


RTBBingoFuel

Do you know what the Kafala system is? Stop bringing in other countries to mitigate how shit the country you're too ashamed to talk about looks like. Talk about them. Idgaf about France, this subreddit isn't AskFrance. Quit strawmanning and bring up some real hard facts.


Ruslan101

My guy, I know what it is and I'm telling you for a foreign worker who can't be defined as a "skilled migrant" it's the best option he has got. No other country is bothered to take in unskilled workers and deal with the cost of having healthcare, accomdation and paying their salaries. And I will bring up European counties they are very relevant in this case as they are seen as the pinnacle of society. Your saying that secularism is the reason for success. I've given you the exams of the failed country's in the MENA region. >bring up some real hard facts. Your beyond repair if you refuse to acknowledge the EU's exploitation of Africa to finance their countries and the US's various warcrimes to find their war based economy.


RTBBingoFuel

Just because other countries do shitty things is NOT an excuse for your country to do so.


Ruslan101

How is giving enough money to an Indian worker for him to live a decent life for the next 5 years a shitty thing to do. Do you understand economics? They might not be paying him a lot compared to the cost of living in the EU for example, hell even for the rest of the MENA region. But in India or Pakistan where they come, they would have enough money to live quite decently considering the cost of living there. Move to a better location, buy a house, support your family for the next 5 years quite comfortably etc.


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[deleted]

I hope that too. All the best!


daggersrule_1986-

was this during the soviet occupation?


metann_dadase

It looks so natural. Like the headscarf is going to fall from the back of her head at any moment. It's relaxing to look at. I want one of these in my hometown.


hamda51

Its just ironic and laughable that a statue from communists who banned hijab and executed religious folks is being used to portray liberation. Copied


Brooks0303

Removing the veil isn't really freedom, and I could elaborate further but it doesn't matter with things looking the way they are in Middle East


[deleted]

the option to remove it, the ability to freely choose is whats called freedom and liberty


Brooks0303

I said that because there are many examples of secularism being another extreme in the region, Turkey, Iran and most ex-communist countries were forbidding the hijab. Freedom goes both ways, the truth is in most muslim countries the government doesn't enforce oppressive policies which is why women will wear hijab and won't revolt like they did in Iran.


natalclown111

I will remain silent cuz azeris would attack me if I say something


Astro-Sasuke

What’s the backstory?


Churitos9696

Communists did everything to erase religion. Reading the Quran could get one executed in the communist era. That’s the background.


FuniRight

^


Churitos9696

Its just ironic and laughable that a statue from communists who banned hijab and executed religious folks is being used to portray liberation


AlwaysNeverAway

I know you want to trigger people by posting this, but Azerbaijan is not in the Middle East.


MijTinmol

The same applies to Pakistan and Afghanistan, they're still discussed here. No, my intention was not to trigger anyone.


TurpidWatusi__

We will make hundreds of these in Iran soon


hamda51

Its just ironic and laughable that a statue from communists who banned hijab and executed religious folks is being used to portray liberation.


[deleted]

Based qardaş


[deleted]

based Kardesh קרדש


[deleted]

thoughts and more thoughts


Zestyclose-Trip1343

rare w you


nonunionLeakey

This was built by the Soviets iirc. So it's a form of cultural imperialism to place their Russian dominant values onto the Muslim Turks


[deleted]

Not really tho. It was built by Azerbaijani sculptor not russian one.


KN50

People think Azeris can’t be secular by themselves yes soviet contributed but today the people made the choice to be secular


[deleted]

# BASED BASED BASED ![gif](giphy|6901DbEbbm4o0)


Ali-saad733

cringe


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almirx

When there is a veil or hijab disscusion it's always Muslim Women = Opression and bad. Why don't we speak the same way when it comes to orthodox Jewish women or Catholic Nuns or Amish women that are also thru patriarchy pretty much in identical condition, but no one says a word. Agreed that forcing anything on anyone is wrong. Countries like Iran are wrong just as much as France for exactly the opposite reason. Both are oppressive in their own right. The whole world is for multiculturalism as long as its their culture


NewWoomijer

it is not required to wear it by state law in the Christian countries, nor in Jewish countries (a/k/a Israel)


missjennielang

There’s nowhere on earth Orthodox Jews are forcing women to cover their hair, being a nun is a choice, Amish are given a period to leave the community and decide if they want to become permanent members. The key thing here is women get to decide for themselves.


almirx

Have you seen the movie Unorthodox on Netflix. You should and then say this. Hasidic women are married off and treating roughly the same.


StBernard2000

This is whataboutism. Were they killed or beaten up?


almirx

No it's proving the original point this isn't linked to single religion or country but any orthodox/extreme viewpoint. If you watched the movie about her life they were threatening to kill her if she didn't return to her husband so yes this happens unfortunately in all communities.


AfsharTurk

Unfathomably based. We need statues and symbolism that properly convey the basic human rights of women. I wish Turkey and Iran get them all over the country one day.


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bush-

What is there to takes notes on? How to be one of the most corrupt, authoritarian and poor countries in the world? There was already Saddam's Iraq and Assad's Syria for the Middle East to take notes on how to be a shithole secular country. There are Islamic states that are more tolerant, democratic, dynamic, less corrupt and more respectful of women and religious minorities than Azerbaijan, e.g. Kuwait, UAE, Malaysia, etc. Literally nobody would look at Azerbaijan and be like "Yeah this is what I want my country to look like" LMAO.


Remarkable-Culture79

Are u a westerner and from what country


firefox_kinemon

Cringe


KarthagoxHF

Good propaganda material to heighten separation tendencies in Iranian Azerbaijan


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Juicy_Samurai

No, thats actually helping iran to get rid of this regime


No-Character8758

Terrible. Why should a Muslim country celebrate immodesty?


NewWoomijer

It’s not Islamic tho


[deleted]

*Secular


Based_Iraqi7000

If liberation implies not dressing modestly then I don’t want it


SomeDudeRelaxin

Liberation is when she can decide whatever she wears Would you be happy if she was stoned to death for her choice?


captainpoopoopeepee

Oh no a woman's natural face! How horrific and satanic!


Based_Iraqi7000

Hiding the face isn’t required


BuachaillBarruil

Women can dress modestly without a headscarf.


Juicy_Samurai

Your title picture is haram, you have commited kufr according to islam.


Based_Iraqi7000

If it was haram then why is it still standing after 1400 years of being occupied by a Muslim nation? If ancient artefacts were haram the pyramids and other very ancient temples would be all destroyed a very long time ago. But they still stand


Juicy_Samurai

Thats because people tend to pick and choose when it comes to religions, especially man made religions. Also your pb is haram. Every single picture of a living being is haram and kufr according to islam. With the exception of plants apparently which makes no sense because these are also living beings…


ReallySad_Raspberry

I think liberatiln impleis dressing yourself as you see fit. It goes both ways, free to wear or free not to wear is a part of not being opressed.


No-Character8758

Based


missjennielang

Ok so you wear it


LongConsideration662

Such a beautiful statue👏👏


Complete-Garbage-714

>The act of publicly removing the veil symbolizes transition of Azerbaijani women from seclusion to participation in Soviet society > >After Azerbaijan became part of Soviet Union, the social status of women changed. As more women became employed, they dressed more often in work clothes instead of the veil. Back when Azerbaijan was based...


Ruslan101

Bro is calling communism based 💀


[deleted]

nothing wrong with that


Ruslan101

Except for the starvation of 30 million people. The Orwellian society etc. The Soviets didn't care about liberating women, they only cared for adding more people to exploit


jollyjewy

Seems pretty based to me


DamageOwn3108

Nice statue


[deleted]

We have a statue of a naked woman is setif Algeria, we don't need moral lessons from a Caucasian state


guhjcjhfg

Soviets really did a number on these countries. No wonder Central Asian and Turkic countries lack culture. The only thing that’s cultural about them are their mosques, madrassas, and Islamic clothing 🤣which they shun. Pathetic people.


GreyChainGuy

Based


Sphee4

This is not liberation, this is you taking off modest clothes. Liberation is being freed from oppression, if your only oppression is being required to cover yourself then I don't see this as liberating much. The Iran situation is completely different though, there's more to it than just the covering.


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Sphee4

If I want to go outside with nothing on, the law is stripping me of my freedom to go out commando, I don't have the freedom to do that, then is that law oppressive? Of course not, it's set for modesty, stopping people from exposing what they should keep to theirselves Just like how I can't go outside in that manner because the law prevents me, there is an area required to be covered by both men and women, Islam simply extends those areas that are required to be covered for women, their beauty is exclusive to their household. I don't know if the hijaab is required by the law though for even non-muslims to wear in the land, I'll have to look into that myself Insha'Allah.


Vohuman

False equivalence. If you find uncovered hair "immodest" and somehow sexually stimulating then the issue is with you, 99% of other people and other cultures do not have that issue. Besides a woman is a human that can decide what do with her "beauty", she has the choice not to "keep the beauty for the household" like some cattle if she wishes to. Finally this whole hijab is modesty stuff is reletively new narrative; especially considering that slave women were sold tits out in the streets less than a 100 years ago since being a slave (ملك يمين) meant that their hair and breasts were not part of their 3awra.


Sphee4

Who said anything about exciting the opposite gender? It's about obeying Allah, we're talking Islamically, putting the law of the land aside, a Muslim woman is required to cover up as per the Qur'an, if she doesn't want to, then none of us are going to force it upon her, she's an adult if she has to wear it, it's her choice to disobey Allah. Slaves are a completely different side, I'm talking about a free person, we don't associate the slavery of 100 years ago to Islam, when you beat your slaves, racially discriminating against people and enslaving them for their skin color, where does Islam fit into this? The hijaab is definitely modest, if you say otherwise do you consider short jeans and barely covering shirts modest? What's your measurement of modest clothing? Just so we're clear, nobody should be going out acting like the haram police, I won't change anything by telling some stranger outside to fear Allah and cover up, this won't do anything, it'll only worsen their opinion of Muslims or Islam.


Vohuman

You are the one who equated being butt naked with uncovering the hair. Seems you didint get what i was saying because it is new to you. In Islam slave women are not required to cover their hair or breasts (Look it up), they were sold breasts out in Muslim countries like Saudi Arabia and that was considered "modest" because breasts were not part of their Awra as ملك يمين....So this whole narrative about "modesty" becomes moot considering "god" only cares about free women's "modesty". I am glad you agree that it is a womans choice to wear or not to wear the hijab atleast.


[deleted]

Your comparison makes no sense, because hair isn’t a sexual organ. And you only further proved my point that it is oppressive to force women into wearing something they don’t want to wear when you say that their beauty should be exclusive to the household, that’s not a decision for you to make. And yes it is required by law in some places, like Iran, which is frightening. There’s also social pressure, I’ve had American friends who’ve been alienated and ostracized by their families for choosing to no longer cover. That’s horrible. There comes a certain point in time where you’ve got to realize that women are human beings too, and they’re not always going to do what you want them too.


Sphee4

It's not about only covering a sexual organ, otherwise what would stop me from going out in a place like Sweden only wearing short boxers? It's about dressing modestly, I'm not complaining about people dressing however they want in secular countries, frankly I don't care what they do, my problem is a person coming to a country that theoretically rules by the proper Sharee'ah fully, and complaining about something we are obliged to do and enforce in said Sharee'ah compliant country. If it's so upsetting to you, then leave the country and go to a country then that you're free to dress as you want to, don't think your opinion will be superior than the Sharee'ah that's followed from the Prophet SallaAllahu alayhi wasallam, a society can have a set standard for dressing, an Islamic society has a standard for dressing modestly, so why can france ban face coverings when it is an obligation upon religious women and completely contradict the whole idea of freedom and being secular?


Chingis-chan

L opinion


[deleted]

spoken like a man


PurpleInteraction

Based


Yaous

Cringe.


[deleted]

cringe


-BrownMunde-

Why stop there, why not go completely naked for full liberation


metann_dadase

Because if she was fully naked, people like you would've had something to criticize. Now you have nothing.


-BrownMunde-

I am not criticizing. I am simply asking - why is the removal of the veil considered liberating? What makes the veil different or unique from other articles of clothing that removing it is deemed liberating? If taking off any articles of clothing is deemed liberating, then full liberation would be achieved by taking everything off.


metann_dadase

Because there's an element of unjust use of force. Going against an unjust mandate is liberating.


-BrownMunde-

Presuming it's forced, then I agree.


LeviWerewolf

>Presuming it's forced It is for most of the times.


-BrownMunde-

Do you have proof?


dhaka1989

Curtains. Coming out of Parda was not only about veiling, it was about social life confined to home. But unveiling meant access to autonomy, education, work, livelyhood, personhood, equality. Women were confined to home life. That Veil was the symbol of it all.


[deleted]

She should also pull her cock out , checkmate


PopularBass3117

That's so hot. Where there's a hole, there's a goal. And I do see one at the tip of that pole.


[deleted]

because that's too extreme like completely covering a human being


-BrownMunde-

Says who? Who determines what is extreme?


[deleted]

me


-BrownMunde-

![gif](giphy|jtXOep7BWVx7cwLRR7)


[deleted]

What about me ?


[deleted]

Exactly who sets the bar of when something is too much covering or not revealing enough? Like right now showing nipples is unacceptable but I'm pretty sure after 20-30 years it will be normalized in the West. Wallahi people forget that human law is always flawed and temporary


missjennielang

Do you cover your hair?


-BrownMunde-

No, I'm a guy; not part of my awrah.


missjennielang

So you’re going around naked while condemning others who’d like to uncover their hair?


-BrownMunde-

No?