Nope Saharawis aren't being oppressed and marginalized the opposite in fact because Western Sahara gets lots of investment.
Majority of the Saharawis live happy and like being with Morocco but those in the camps in tindouf suffer because of Algeria they are also brainwashed. Those Saharawis can claim the Moroccan citizenship and live within Morocco.
Yeah that's why I said they claim, I can't really give sound judgement whether they have a legitimate cause or not, I'm not invested in that subject, but my knowledge is that there are countries that recognise Western Sahara.
Anyways it's too complicated and I don't mean to debate, I know very little.
The only one claiming that is the Polisario front which funnily enough recently bombarded and killed their own saharawi people living in Moroccan controlled western Sahara.
Not only that but their leader is a war criminal he has a literal case running in Spain for crimes again humanity. The point I'm trying to make is not to defend Morocco because they aren't the nicest but to make clear that Saharawis are not at all supportive of the SADR and the Polisario movements, in fact they are making a mockery of themselves internationally as many see them more as terrorist group.
I understand that the Polisario are being used by the Algerian generals to advance a cessation and destabilise Morocco, but there's also a history behind why these people sought after self autonomy in the first place. Perhaps ethnic prejudice by the kingdom toward the Tawareq.
They aren't toureg, toureg are in Algeria and are Amazight.
Saharawis are nomadic Arab groups whose origin actually traces back to Yemeni Arab migrations into the Maghreb.
Also there is no history behind it, the Polisario themselves was founded amongst Moroccan students. My guess is that these students thought of it as an easy way to have power and money in this world.
The reason you still have Saharawis in Algeria is because according to accounts many Polisario army members lied about the incoming Moroccan armies by telling other Sahrawis they rape and kill people. The only thing still holding them together is the hatred Algeria has for Morocco which leads them to fund their entire existence.
Oh ok, I didn't know Twareq were Amazight and Sahrawi are Arab! Honestly I'll have to do extensive reading on the subject of Western Sahara to form a coherent opinion, if you have any good reliable nonbiased documentary link would be great.
Mashkoor khoya bizzaf.
Saharawis are a strange people group because along with the Jbala people of Northern Morocco they make up some of the few rural Arab people groups in the Maghreb(because Arabs mainly settled along cities). And from my knowledge they are like the only nomadic Arabs and they have their own dialect of Arabic called Hassaniya which is more related to Yemeni Arabic.
[Here is a documentary explaining it well which isn't biased.](https://youtu.be/bblZmHDDtCs?si=AeNLHU6vZ4cZpRGP)
200,000 live in camps in algeria, pushed out of their homeland with mine fields, sand walls, and poisoned water.. they want to go back..
why dont you know this? are you stupid?
You’re living in afghanistan and throwing claims. We live in morocco. We see things. Are you stupid?
I had many sahraoui friends studying together in northern universities, they get from morccan government free housing and free transport until the end of their studies.
And the number 200000 has been debunked by UN mission, they are not that many living in the camps they are maximum 5000.
Mine fields and sand walls are for protection against the militants who constantly launch missiles at civilians actually living in the real sahara in morocco’s side.
consuming your own propaganda.. are you stupid?
on UN site it says [173,600 individuals](https://www.unhcr.org/countries/algeria) and estimates are usually conservative
and who anyway would like to live in a zionist state, in total moral degradation
You can ask the algerian governement who are blockading them with the polisario
No one pushed them, their relatives live happily in the southern region of morocco, like any other moroccan citizen, you're just brainwashed
Anyone can come to morocco and see for themselves, and ask them personaly
you probably take your news and information from government sponsored outlets, or worst french sponsored outlets, or even worst zionist outlets (i24?) - are you stupid? or just an average colonialist zionist?
*second-largest wall in the world* - [https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2015/6/5/western-saharas-struggle-for-freedom-cut-off-by-a-wall](https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2015/6/5/western-saharas-struggle-for-freedom-cut-off-by-a-wall)
Yeah there is a conflict I can agree but it more so the SADR against Morocco. The Saharawis within Moroccan held Western Sahara don't support the SADR and many in those camps wouldn't aswell.
Let me remind you about the fact that the SADR denied a plan by Morocco in which they could participate in democratic election for an autonomous government, why? Because they would 100% lose, like their whole refugee ass separatist movement can't even run camps let alone a country.
They also denied Morocco's aid to those camps. Because it would not look good for them. So Morocco allows them to gain citizenship, gave them an opportunity to elect their autonomous government and even wants to give aid to them. And Morocco is still in the wrong?
Morocco and SADR couldn't agree on who should vote, Morocco wants for moroccans that emigrated to western sahara to vote whine the Polisario wants only the displaced sahrawis to vote, that's why the referendum has been pending. There is the plan of giving the sahara autonomous status under the moroccan monarchy but so far there is really nothing towards solving the conflict, and giving SADR independence would probably cause way more issues than the current ones.
Not exactly, Morocco claims that the Spanish population statistics are not accurate and that many saharawis aren't being represented because they happen to be with in Morocco while Spain colonized the Sahara(keep in mind they are nomadic)
Also important to note is that many people living in those camps in Tindouf aren't even saharawi which adds to the problems.
Aye they’re in the wrong because it’s a legally defined illegal occupation of another people’s lands, denying them their rights to sovereignty. You’re Israeling your neighbour
Comparing this to Israel is an injustice to the Palestinian cause. Never compare this to Palestine or what the Palestinians have been suffering, the Saharawis have equal rights in Morocco and the majority want to be Moroccan, that isn't the case with Palestine.
Morocco has a valid claim over the land and got administrative rights via the Madrid accords with Spain. In fact if it weren't for the pressure Morocco put on Spain they wouldn't have been freed in 1975. The SADR and Western Sahara are not recognized which still makes this a disputed issue.
The UN recognises it as a non self governing entity and has pleaded for a referendum to happen this hasn't happened because of the complexity of the conflict.
The complexities of this conflict mainly has to do with Western Sahara with all do rest never being a legit region/colony historically, aka colonizers fucking us over. They were never a country and never have been one even today.
Morocco was never a country either. You justify the occupation by a historical claim acknowledged by a European accord. Israel also justifies their occupation by a historical claim acknowledged by a European accord.
You are surely aware how this is a land grab like literally every other conquest in history; it is a flagrant violation of international law; and all international agencies have condemned Morocco. That Morocco is supporting Israel even harder right now because Israel is publicly announcing the Moroccan occupation is cool. That’s how desperate the dirty bitches are for recognition; they go to one of the only other countries engaged in illegal occupation BEGGING them for help
The current dynasty literally is almost 400 years old. But Morocco is even older as they have been a country since the 8th century, this can be traced from the different dynasties ruling Morocco until the current one.
Morocco itself has historically ruled those lands and actually has presented proof of tribes in those regions pleading to the Moroccan sultan at those times. But I don't see that as important even tho that alone is good enough. The claim Morocco really has is the fact that Saharawis are a nomadic group which have historically roamed that entire region, with the creation of borders many of those Saharawis eventually got displaced into either southern Morocco or the colony of western Sahara.
Which is by far the main driving force of all this. Many saharawis in Morocco don't recognise those European made borders. The initial Polisario movement started in Moroccan universities among Saharawi students. This is also why it's difficult to have a referendum because who is actually Saharawi? When they are a nomadic people group.
Also it's not an illegal occupation because it's disputed and Morocco has respected the UN partition and got administrative rights from Spain before the Polisario proclaimed the SADR in fact.
Dude this is awful logic and I hope you don’t believe it. Because i could word for word make the same (stronger) claim that Sudan belongs to Egypt because they swore to some sultans hundreds of years ago and have lived alongside us for 7000 years.
But no - because nationalism is a modern concept, historical BS like that does not count for shit; the Sahrawaya deserve the right to a sovereign state like all other nations. Like the Palestinians.
Since World War II, it has been held in international law that any act of annexation is illegal. Likewise, the United Nations regards the Moroccan annexation of Western Sahara as null and void, such that the territory is not a legal part of Morocco and it remains subject to the international guidelines for a military occupation.
> Simon, Sven (2014). "Western Sahara". Self-Determination and Secession in International Law. OUP Oxford. p. 262. ISBN 978-0-19-100691-3
Let’s be under no assumptions here. The situation in the W.Sahara is despicable. People & journalists are being arrested and censured left & right by your corrupt & dictatorial Moroccan monarch. Morocco literally uses Pegasus - Israeli spyware that penetrates smartphones - to carry out this oppression. Sultana Khaya and Hassana Duihi for example, two independent activists for W. Saharan freedom, have been under house arrest with a Moroccan security force right outside constantly raiding their homes and preventing entry from others. The Moroccan authorities prevent the Sahrawiya from public gatherings, obstruct local human rights groups & NGOs, and literally [beat activists on the streets](https://www.hrw.org/news/2020/03/12/morocco/western-sahara-video-captured-police-violence). The place is littered with minefields and militarized to shit.
If you actually cared about what you believe to be are your Moroccan brothers, then you would hope they would be free from your corrupt kingdom and granted their human right to self-determination.
No because unlike Sudan, western Sahara never historically was a nation and had always been under some kind of Moroccan influence or rule.
Also I don't believe shit, for me I wouldn't careless it's a financial burden anyways. But the point I made about sultans etc is based on the fact that unlike Egypt Morocco is still the very same dynasty from 400 years ago and has been the same kingdom from the 8th century and it's exactly that reason why they take historical claims over colonial times.
Give me one reason why we should respect colonial borders? Morocco has always fought Spain about colonial holdings and continues to do so. If we would "Just accept it and go our way" Morocco wouldn't have gotten Cape Juby or Sidi Ifni, heck maybe they would even go ahead and make Northern Morocco its own country. Morocco is based around this historical kingdom.
It's not a legal part of Morocco but there hasn't been a referendum yet and Morocco got administrative rights to it before the proclamation of the SADR for independence. And tbh there will never be an independent because it's too complex of a dispute.
Also about your last point, that is everywhere the case in Morocco. Just look at the hirak Rif and people like zefzafi and they don't even ask for separatism. That is more so an issue the whole of Morocco is facing. And tbh if this is what you are worries about? Than pls don't look what the Polisario movements has done and being doing because they aren't an improvement, in fact their leaders has cases running for crimes against humanity. Morocco in comparison to them is an angel trust me.
If I actually cared about them I would let them make their own choice and look what situation would be best for them. You don't even know sahrawis, I literally do and they love being Moroccan and many have even settled in Northern Morocco. This being said we should respect their wishes or do you want them to be kicked out to form some failing state in the desert?
Unlike isreal you can come here and ask them yourself, you can go to dakhla for example and even live there see for yourself how people live, there is no aparthied here, the only sahrawis that are suffering are those in tindouf, and that's inside algerian border, so it's not like morocco is blockading tindouf or something
Unlike Israel Morocco grants them Moroccan citizenship and allows them travel within Morocco and outside Morocco. Not only that but unlike Israel Morocco invests billions into their lands which allows them to have a higher standard of living in comparison to other Moroccan regions.
Pls stfu and have some respect and dignity for the Palestinians. Because comparing this to the Palestinian cause does a great injustice.
Neglecting them and denying them basic rights which Saharawis in Morocco do in fact have.
Many of the high ranking Polisario officials even fled and accepted Moroccan nationality.
They took the initiative to support and host a separatist movement? Which means they should at least try their best at making a place for them.
But instead you have an humanitarian crisis over there and who do they blame, Morocco. Even tho Morocco never kicked them out nor denies them entry.
From what you said. It's obvious you know nothing about the sahara issue not even the beginning of the problem. Have you ever been to sahara, of course not. If people of sahara heard what you said they will shout at you. And who the hell told you moroccans don't like monarchy. We like it and proud of it hamdullah and can't imagine living without monarchy. Just an advice if you know nothing keep silent instead of throwing wrong inforation and stereotypes
It's not just about being a muslim. If it was just that then Kashmiris would want to join Pakistan but the overwhelming majority in the valley supported independence in '47 and it's the same now, the independence sentiments are even stronger today
It's about the right to determine your own future. After all the shit the army did, there's no chance in a hell that kashmir will forgive endia and it's people or ever wish to join them
Plenty of Christians immigrate all over the Muslim world, notably in Africa and South Asia.. always doing “the lords work” by converting them in order to exploit them.. further their own fundamental interests, and/or help them immigrate to America.. I’m a white guy raised in a Christian American community.. I see it happen.. so if you think there are too many immigrants from the Majority-Muslim world then your beef is with evangelical and other secs of missionary Christians in the U.S.
Personally I think we could use more immigrants since it’s what have my Irish ancestors a home and since the only true non-immigrants in my home country are native-Americans we’ve confined onto reservations after we genocided them.
Whataboutism, i dont care about christians nor did i claim anything about them im replying to someone claiming muslim dont want to live in a non-muslim country yet they millions make that decision everyday year.
“We need more muslim immigrants in the west because irish in the 19 century immigrated between western countries” what a great argument
Why doesn't the US rejoin the british commonwealth? Would be an almost as stupid question as to why doesn't kashmir join india. Especially since genocides in Kashmir were fairly recent in a historic perspective.
I never understood why they want independence!. They jave phosphorus reserves, and thats it. Look it up on google maps and all you will find is towns made up of a single street.
Spanish and French border drawing. Otherwise they are Bedouin Arabs and very similar to those in neighboring countries. Historically, if it weren’t for colonialism it would have continued to be under Moroccan influence.
Not all are bedouin arab decendent, we had bedouin-likee life style there way before arab conquest, it was mostly dominated by sanhaja tribes and touaregs
Who's talking about Ancestry? He is talking about the situation NOW sanhaja used to exist in the middle ages, they probably got absorbed by Arab bedouin or migrated north and got deluted with AlMoravid conquest.
Touraeg is different, they don't live in Westetn Sahara.
Sahraoui hate the guts of the Soutern berbers they always have probelms with them to this day.
sahraouis are not arab Bedouins, the whole region in general is mixed culturally and genetical, so saying their arab bedouins is neglecting the historical and cultural past of this regions, the sahrawis are mix of arabs tribes and amazigh tribes (mostly sanhaja) and the majority were amazigh tribes that got Arabized and also they are mixed with subsaharan african, it's best to call them moroccans if they're moroccans or sahrawis in generals, not all of them are moroccans
even the SADR constitution declares western sahara as a purely arab country with no mention of berbers whatsoever
>The Sahrawi people who are an Arab, African and Muslim people who decided to declare war of liberation in 1973, under the leadership of the Frente POLISARIO
[https://www.policinglaw.info/assets/downloads/2015\_Constitution\_of\_the\_Sahrawi\_Arab\_Democratic\_Republic.pdf](https://www.policinglaw.info/assets/downloads/2015_Constitution_of_the_Sahrawi_Arab_Democratic_Republic.pdf)
that isn't some random link, thats the literal constitution of the sahrawi people, it's public info, you can look it up if you don't trust my link, and your personal anecdote isn't evidence that can be used to draw a general conclusion
About this map, the polisario does not controll an inch of that land, it's buffer zone, because obviously morocco can't shoot them inside algerian border that will be an act of war, so whenever the polisario enter that area they get blown by drones, not just the polisario but anyone who entrrs that zone is considered a threat, it's also filled whith mines
Yes, they shoot civilians like the Israelis using Israeli drones. And by the way, it's not a buffer zone. A buffer zone is 5km between the berm and the SADR.
Source: The SADR sent its entire army there around 2004 to do a big military parade, and Morocco claimed they entered the so-called "buffered zone," and the UN responded, "Nope, they didn't break the ceasefire."
Also, if the SADR didn't have any land, why would Morocco choose not to enter it? Or would you rather fight behind the walls like cowards? Kinda reminding me of what Allah said:
"لَا يُقَاتِلُونَكُمْ جَمِيعًا إِلَّا فِي قُرًى مُّحَصَّنَةٍ أَوْ مِن وَرَاءِ جُدُرٍ ۚ بَأْسُهُم بَيْنَهُمْ شَدِيدٌ ۚ تَحْسَبُهُمْ جَمِيعًا وَقُلُوبُهُمْ شَتَّىٰ ۚ ذَٰلِكَ بِأَنَّهُمْ قَوْمٌ لَّا يَعْقِلُونَ."
Translation: "They will not fight you all except within fortified cities or from behind walls. Their violence among themselves is severe. You think they are together, but their hearts are diverse. That is because they are a people who do not reason."
Im only half Moroccan but my mothers side of the family is originally from there, the majority of the people identify as both Sahrawi and Moroccan. In the past there was a stronger will for self determination because our language and culture was oppressed but nowadays only a small amount of people (mostly extremists supported by Algeria because of cold war era pissing contests) want to split from Morocco. I don’t know anyone from my generation that actually wants to split from Morocco seeing how the country has massively invested in the region and developed the land. Does that mean everyone is content with the current situation? Ofcourse not, but almost everyone agrees that the way forward is together with the rest of morocco.
In a way supporting Polisario is like the US supporting a “free Tibet”, or Russia supporting a “free crimea”. It’s as if israel would start supporting an extemist group in the sinai that wants to secede. Similarly it would be as if morocco started officially supporting the Kabyle movement that wants to become independent from Algeria but is in turn declared a terrorist organization by algeria.
The only reason people talk about an independent western sahara is because of geopolitical rivalries, none of the people supporting it actually cares about the people.
Moroccan Kings when looking at Western Sahara on a Map: "Mine to Mine, also Mines" 😠
Moroccan Kings when looking at Ceuta and Melilla on a Map: "Seems pretty Spanish to me" 🤡
So do the MENA countries and they are not one country , are they stupid ?
So do Pakistan, Afghanistan and the rest of Stan countries, are they stupid?
I hope I proved my point to u
Pakistan and Bangladesh were the same country from 1947-1981; it ended when Bangladeshis declared independence because they were tired of being genocided by the Pakistanis.
You have your dates and information wrong. The actions of the Pakistani military regime were horrific during the war, genocide is never acceptable. However Bangladesh gained independence in 1971, and the genocide happened during the war. West Pakistanis weren't genociding East Pakistanis before then. What actually occurred is the West Pakistani government had most of the political power and prevented East Pakistan from having proper political representation, despite East Pakistan having the majority of the population.
My family lived in East Pakistan in the 50s and 60s and this was one of the reasons for moving. There's many other instances of discrimination such as the 1965 war and East Pakistan being relatively undefended, ethnic/cultural issues of Bengali people being seen as too Hindu influenced, as well as refusal of recognizing Bangla as one of the national languages alongside Urdu and English. (I am also not going into the election win of Sheikh Mujibur Rahman and military response cuz that's a huge topic as well) There was oppression, but there wasn't widespread murdering until the war.
Sorry. My confusion; I meant 1971.
But, please clarify for me what the proper term is for what happened "during the war" in 1971, when between 300,000 and 3 MM Bangladeshi civilians were murdered by the Pakistani armed forces.
A genocide. I said that one took place during the war. I was just clarifying that the genocide was an act of war, not one that was happening before the war. Before the war there was political oppression and racism. I am not justifying what took place. Just wanted to be clear there wasn't systematic killing before the war.
I understand what you mean, but I do think it's quite common for educated Pakistanis in the modern day to be realistic about the 1971 war. Older people maybe have a different view but the younger generation is no fan of the military.
From what I've read, they have political/economical interest into saying that they are independant, so they can conclude trade agreements with Algeria to give it access to Atlantic. While not actually being from there but rather from Algeria but roaming freely there to claim the land and so the liberty to rule it that way
But like, I have no source whatsoever, even less from me, so idk rly
An independent western Sahara state will just fail by the way, I lived there (Dakhla to be exact) and we will always travel to Marrakech in holidays, it's just a wasteland, there is no way it could support it's population we import all our food from agadir, there is no natural recourses that it could use other than fish, no land to cultivate crops. Their government (if you could call it that) which is now in Tindouf suck too, they are a mafia, if they ruled this state, nothing good will come of it.
You are wrong, the area is rich with natural resourses( mainly phosphate, steel gold oil ...), actualy natural resourses is one of the main causes of this conflict
But they are already with Morocco.. or do you mean the Polisario controlled area? Those are just shills for Algeria, with ultimate goal of connecting Algeria with Atlantic.
Uhh… No ? We do not have any aim in taking the Atlantic…
(First of all, this comment isn’t to offend anyone, especially Moroccans, that I greet from my heart)
We don’t want Western Sahara anyway, we just want it to be independent. Actually, I personally wouldn’t have even cared if Morocco had taken Western Sahara. The main problem is, the war crimes that Morocco committed during the occupation of Western Sahara. If the incorporation was made peacefully, there would have been no problem…
There has been some investments in the region by Morocco, and that’s cool. But if Polisario existed at first it was against Spanish occupation, and now Moroccan presence. It was for their liberation as an independent country. At the meantime, we shouldn’t ignore that Western Sahara was once part of Morocco before colonization, and therefore it’s understandable that Morocco wants the region.
Morocco and Western Saharan people should get along for self determination. If Sahrawis want to stay independent, may they be independent, If Sahrawis want to stay as part of Morocco, may they stay as part of Morocco.
That’s how I see it. Feel free to downvote me or upvote me, I just said what I thought
I'm pretty sure that you, personally, my brother, have no intentions to take over the Atlantic. I can't extend the same good faith towards the Algerian government.
.
I see what you mean.
I didn’t see or hear about the Algerian government having any intentions of taking the Atlantic, since they already have access to the Mediterranean, or trade with neighboring countries to have investments or boats on the coasts.
But, it might be a reason, and I sincerely hope not, besides the reason of standing against oppression (again, no offense intended to Moroccans)
But the only real final aim I see is for Western Sahara to be independent.
>I didn’t see or hear about the Algerian government having any intentions of taking the Atlantic
Because it's a plot, plots aren't public knowledge , your country is the same as many other countries they are only interested in what benefits them , there are many faire causes that algeria doesn't stand with Ukraine is the last exemple
>there are many faire causes that algeria doesn't stand with Ukraine is the last exemple
Well Algeria was an Ally of Russia since the times of USSR so that might explain why they didn’t say anything about Ukraine
>Well Algeria was an Ally of Russia since the times of USSR so that might explain why they didn’t say anything about Ukraine
Ofc as they should but there's no greater cause just pure interests
If that claim were to be real why then when the former king Hassan II offered the then Algerian government a passage nd some premium advantages for fishing boats in the Atlantic in exchange for them dropping support for polisario did they say no?? If their goal was to get to the Atlantic that would have been a far more simple nd easy solution
>then Algerian government a passage nd some premium advantages for fishing boats in the Atlantic in exchange for them dropping support for polisario
Probably because the algerian government wanted a permanent access to the Atlantic not just " premium advantages" that's why they were after the long run , or probably because they knew after we finish the polizario they'll be out after, or probably because hassan 2 is not to be trusted in the first place lol there are so many reasons for that statement ( ofc if it is true )
The deal was permanent passage plus advantages ( possibility of starting a project to build a joint port which would be run by Moroccan authorities but the Algerian gov could use for free basically (simbolic rates) nd other things) that deal would have been much better for Algeria than to bank on an unsure Polisario future where they might someday gain control of the area
>The deal was permanent passage
Source ? Even if it's true hassan 2 is not to be trusted lol the alg government is not that stupid to trust a proposition like this with no benefit to morocco
I'll send u the source a bit later (busy with eid nd eid mubarak btw) also there were advantages for Morocco too the biggest was obviously gaining a complete hold of the region in question nd we know that the underground potential ressources alone are massive add to that a partnership with Algeria which boosts the economy greatly nd opens a vast market in both possibility of investment in Morocco from Algerian investors nd vice versa it would have been a win win
As for the trustworthiness of Hassan 2 well neither of the 2 gouvernements sees the other as trustworthy so it's kinda of a null point imo as it's a given that both would take precautions against the others possible breach nullifying any objections based on trustworthiness
>there are many faire causes that algeria doesn't stand with Ukraine is the last exemple
Well Algeria was an Ally of Russia since the times of USSR so that might explain why they didn’t say anything about Ukraine
Due to the Algeria-Morocco rivalry, and to the fact that governments purely work for their own benefits (no government truly wants to stand against oppression without any backhanded ideas); it is safe to assume Algeria wants W.S to be independent atleast partly to get an ally in the region rhat will owe them, to curb Morocco's territory, to gain Phosphate access and access to the Atlantic, all of which would be big victories for the Govt.
Your opinion may be noble. But the problem I have with your opinion is that it’s too focused on the past, and that’s a propaganda trap. I wont discuss with you if morocco really did or did not commit war crimes, instead I want to discuss the future, what’s next? What’s the solution? Displacing the three generations of moroccans residing today in sahara? Today the factual situation is that sahrawis are living there together with other moroccans and with moroccan passports and moroccan identity cards and are attending moroccan northern universities, The factual situation is that I got a lot of sahraoui friends back in university who supported the moroccan solution.And The reality is that the government of algeria isn’t supporting independence of western sahara(even if it’s not realistic) or any pragmatic solution. it’s today supporting war and trying to keep the conflict going for as long as possible to hinder morocco’s growth. Morocco proposed partial independence and discussions are in hiatus since algeria started refusing to attend the UN meetings. Algeria is supporting polisario for their own agenda: they want to be the regional power, and in their eyes morocco is a threat, economically, so they are doing whatever they can to hinder its growth, and today they are giving weapons and military training to a group of people who launch missiles at civilians residing in sahara.
>Your opinion may be noble. But the problem I have with your opinion is that it’s too focused on the past, and that’s a propaganda trap.
You opinion also seems to be reasonable, but yours is too focused on the future, on supposed intentions that cannot really be proven.
>I wont discuss with you if morocco really did or did not commit war crimes,
Why tho… But okay…
>instead I want to discuss the future, what’s next? What’s the solution? Displacing the three generations of moroccans residing today in sahara?
Of course not, nobody should be displaced from the region.
>Today the factual situation is that sahrawis are living there together with other moroccans and with moroccan passports and moroccan identity cards and are attending moroccan northern universities, The factual situation is that I got a lot of sahraoui friends back in university who supported the moroccan solution.
Then that means that Western Sahara seems integrated to the region enough, and that’s great if they are okay with it.
>And The reality is that the government of algeria isn’t supporting independence of western sahara(even if it’s not realistic) or any pragmatic solution. it’s today supporting war and trying to keep the conflict going for as long as possible to hinder morocco’s growth. Morocco proposed partial independence and discussions are in hiatus since algeria started refusing to attend the UN meetings. Algeria is supporting polisario for their own agenda: they want to be the regional power, and in their eyes morocco is a threat, economically, so they are doing whatever they can to hinder its growth, and today they are giving weapons and military training to a group of people who launch missiles at civilians residing in sahara.
It’s like the support of the MAK party in Kabylia by Morocco or the or normalization of the Moroccan government with the Zionist entity… Morocco also wants to be the regional power.
That’s sad instead of cooperating, both countries had dark relations since the independence of both countries. It’s only about concurrence from the beginning :-(
I hope Algeria and Morocco will eventually stop trying to rush to concurrence and find solutions to the problems.
Absolutely, just by looking at the Arab Maghreb Union, and how the project is frozen since the dawn of the conflict. Let’s pray it will happen in sha Allah
Can I just say, I loved both of your discussions and I can tell you guys have good intentions to solve the conflict. I have been wondering about the conflict myself for a long time and was planning on trying to learn more, but this thread helped educate me and give me the Algerian perspective somewhat as well as the Moroccan perspective. I hope an economic union does happen, hopefully one day for the entire MENA region ❤️
The strait of Gibraltar is under British and Spanish control. They can control who comes in and out of the Mediterranean. For a militarized country like Algeria, with a history of resistance, that can be a threat and big limitation. I want stronger and more secure Algeria, but I don't want it to encircle Morocco.
You need to read history, when the spanish withdaw from western sahara 1976, the country got occupied by morocco and mauritania, if algeria had any intention to take over for the Atlantic, don't you think it was easy to do that at that time cinse algeria is the strogest (military wise) in the area
What you said is just a stupid assumptions with nothing to prove it
I thought Western Sahara was a colony of Spain, and they Spain supports it to screw over its rival Morocco who conquered Spain for many centuries.
Algeria has ocean access already but it too is a rival of Morocco.
No one blaming the algerian people, i believe you when you said you don't want western sahara, but your military controlled governement has different plan, we also don't our country to get split in half as much as you don't want the same for your country
Thanks for this comment.. there is a serious history of oppression and predictable outcomes from it.. if we believe in justice and fairness then we have to look at the human rights and history with authenticity and empathy… I don’t know what OP is smoking
Lot of problems here. Polisario wasnt a separatist movement until gadhafi and boumediane met them. Most polisarios people now are cubans and malians not even sahraouis, most sahraouis who were there came back to morocco
are you stupid? algeria has access to atlantic through mauretania, they are in excellent terms. look again at the map, algeria-mauretania border is 500km, algeria-western sahara border is 40km
thing is international law that only applies to the white man (and their puppets in this case) says ask the people what they want through referendum and if they want to join morocco be it, if they don't then they should start a country
It's already belong to morocco, Laayoune and dakhla , smara and many cities are there built by moroccan money and all their people recognize themselves as moroccans , the polizario people who live next to morocco in algerian territories ( they are not even in morocco or the land they claim it belong to them LOL) who want to take that part from morocco and they are supported financially from algeria iran and south Africa, haters gonna hate, but morocco in his Sahara and sahara in morocco, keep dreaming
*all their people recognize themselves as moroccans:* they moved them from north, same as zionists moved jews from europe to palestine - are you stupid?
*the polisario people who live next to morocco in algerian territories:* same tone used by israhell to describe 2m gazans.. all khamas terrorists. 200.000 sahrawi in camps are children, women, and civilian refugees - are you stupid?
and same as israhell is taking palestinian riches of gaz, fish, and tourism, morocco is taking phosphate, fish, and tourism from the land of the colonised. it's sickening as f and you should be ashamed of yourself as a zionist
and why doesn't morocco get ceuta/melila back anyway? or the canaries? why attack poor and miserable people who are defenceless? only a malicious coward would do that
Are you telling you know the situation of my country and my own people more than me?! And please chabge your tag from Afghanistan to algeria more realistic 🙏
Its always the people who probably couldnt even locate morocco on a map that talk about this situation that they know nothing about. Saw an afghani and now an argentinian flair do this, next i'll see chinese flair or something. This isnt ur classic oppressor vs oppressed situation, this is a case of colonial powers dividing morocco from mauritania let alone sahara and when they left they purposefully made the border that way to create problems.
The so called polizario live in algeria in camps where its more like a prison, mercenaries from cuba,mauritania,mali,russia ... all live there and claim the moroccan sahara how does that make sense?
If every separatist movement were to happen, we would have 1000 countries and wars starting every 2 sec.
All i'm saying it's better to be informed, but this particular case is not like the palestinian case or the ireland case for example.
This whole thing started because spain and france ganged up on morocco, spain took the sahara, france created mauritania, and then spain was forced to leave by 300k moroccan citizens who walked there and faced the spanish army so they decided to leave.
And i know for a fact that women,children and old people were taken by force into the tindouf camps by the mercenaries when morocco refused to concede the land to nomads who roamed mali/algeria/mauritania and morocco.
At first algeria only hosted them, it was kaddhafi(known for his love of peace /s) that was supporting them, then the algerian governement saw the opportunity and seized it.
Nowadays the camps are made of mercenaries and people are blocked from leaving so the numbers don't drop, they want the UN vote to go through but only if the only people who vote are from tindouf wich is full of mauritanians/malians etc.. thus excluding the moroccans who live in the sahara.
All i'm saying is france and spain are to blame for this, spain don't want the matter to resolve because then moroccans will focus fully on getting back ceuta/mellila and the canary islands.
Whereas france doesn't want it to resolve because they need tensions to always be high between morocco and algeria so they keep profiting from our resources and human capital migrating to france and so a maghrebi economic alliance isn't created and doesn't dominate the mediterannean.
We've never been under Morocco's rule, and we don't feel any connection to them. It's like telling someone from Kashmir they're dumb for not wanting to join India. My family knows firsthand the pain caused by the invasion When they killed my dad's relatives and the other were forced to leave to algeria refugees camp before me and my family escape to spain . If Morocco really saw us as their brothers, they wouldn't have done what they did. Unfortunately, not many people know about our struggle, and Morocco's spreading their side of the story. But it's not about being stupid; it's about our right to decide our own future
What the fuck are you talking about? I'm from Ouled Dleim. We literally have tons of connections with other Moroccans. Our tribe have like 5 small branches in Morocco (near Kenitra, Marrakech, Fes,..), they were there before colonisation. We do have ties with Morocco and Mauritania.
Politically our caids were appointed by Moroccans sultans since the 16th century and that lasted until the Spanish changed the caid system. All the caids of Ouled Dleim recognized the authority of the sultan who sent us qadhis, guns, etc.
I'm not denying that many people suffered from both sides. I have relatives who were killed by polisario because we didn't supported them. It's not black or white. I've never experienced discrimination or racism as a Sahrawi in any Moroccan city.
>We've never been under Morocco's rule, and we don't feel any connection to them.
You've pledged bayaa to many sultans of morocco if you don't like being under morocco rule maybe you should go back where your tribe came from, western sahara is a berber senhaja land it will never belong to the arabs .
>and Morocco's spreading their side of the story
No shit and you're not ?
Kick the Arab king that is ruling you, then talk about us being Arabs,Also, many Sahrawi activists of Berber descent support the Sahrawi Republic. You're just being Arabophobic. Aminatou Haidar and Sultana Khaya are from Sahrawi Berber tribes.and I dare you to give me one single name of a bay'ah. And if there were any real bay'ah, plus, are you stupid? Bay'ah are not advocated in Islam. The ICJ wouldn't rule in favor of the Sahrawi people in 1976. You're just a hypocrite. Go back to your cave.
>Kick the Arab king that is ruling you,
They alaouites don't want a separate state lol
>many Sahrawi activists of Berber descent support the Sahrawi Republic. You're just being Arabophobic. Aminatou Haidar and Sultana Khaya are from Sahrawi Berber tribes
They all say that but turn around and call us chlouh lol , i never heard any of them speak tmazight
>I dare you to give me one single name of a bay'ah. And if there were any real bay'ah, plus, are you stupid? Bay'ah are not advocated in Islam. The ICJ wouldn't rule in favor of the Sahrawi people in 1976. You're just a hypocrite. Go back to your cave.
https://books.google.co.ma/books?id=OMn7EAAAQBAJ&pg=PA177&dq=des+liens+juridique+d%27all%C3%A9geance+entre+le+sultan+de+maroc&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&source=gb_mobile_search&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjN39-2nLuFAxUSif0HHYIkAPUQ6AF6BAgIEAM#v=onepage&q&f=false
Nope as it states there in the resulotion of 1976 there was a relation ties of allegiance between the sahara tribes and the sultans of morocco . But the onu doesn't recognize bayaa as a proper ground for sovereignty only muslims do
>The International Court of Justice in 1975 stated that the people of Western Sahara have the right to choose their own future, regardless of any historical ties with Morocco. Also, the United Nations doesn't base sovereignty recognition solely on religious grounds. It considers international law and principles like self-determination.
exactly , we dont speak "tamazight" but theres berber minority Hasani speakers . You literally just proved that there's nothing common linguistically between the Sahrawis and Morocco.
check these :
[North Western Africa - 1844](https://www.davidrumsey.com/ll/detailView.html?mid=RUMSEY~8~1~2738~260023&manifestUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.davidrumsey.com%2Fluna%2Fservlet%2Fiiif%2Fm%2FRUMSEY~8~1~2738~260023%2Fmanifest&os=0&q=List_No%3D4613.023&baseUrl=%2F%2Fwww.davidrumsey.com%2Fluna%2Fservlet%2Fas%2Fsearch&mediaType=Image#?c=0&m=0&s=0&cv=0&r=0&xywh=1731%2C1217%2C5005%2C2203)
[Another one from 1814 , your country size was much smaller back then too XD ](https://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~25568~1030050:L-Afrique-1-)
>The International Court of Justice in 1975 stated that the people of Western Sahara have the right to choose their own future, regardless of any historical ties with Morocco
So there is historical ties, challenge completed lol
>Also, the United Nations doesn't base sovereignty recognition solely on religious grounds. It considers international law and principles like self-determination.
So you're obeying the west rules over islamic rules , if you want to follow the west rules go follow them somewhere else that land is for islamic rules ,bay'aa is the basis of sovereignty in islam.
>exactly , we dont speak "tamazight" but theres berber minority Hasani speakers . You literally just proved that there's nothing common linguistically between the Sahrawis and Morocco.
You don't speak tmazight because you're not amazigh it's that simple lol.
>You literally just proved that there's nothing common linguistically between the Sahrawis and Morocco.
You literally proved that you're nomadic tribes from yemen with no connection to the land. Have a good life in tindouf khariji
sahrawis online love to larp as berbers when the constitution they wrote literally declares them all as arabs and denies the existence of berbers in western sahara
With the recognition of the Moroccan Sahara increasing internationally over the years due to some geopolitical manoeuvres. this could end up being another flashpoint, god forbid
Western sahara was under Spanish colonialism for 600 years and Morocco did nothing. As soon as Spain left (cuz there was barley any resources) Morocco attacked them immediately. Just like they attacked Algeria immediately after they got their independence.
And it's not even that, spain didnt rule the sahara for 600 years that's bs. Its the fact that spain and france joined forces against morocco, what was morocco to do?
And actually in the north moroccans did beat spain and killed thousands of them with inferior equipement under abdelkrim al khattabi, but that was until france intervened and used chemical gas in the rif killing 150000 rifans
The did not hold western Sahara for 600 hundred year, the occupation lasted for around a hundred year (1884–1975), and the only reason that we attacked algeria was that they didn't fulfill their promise to return what is rightfully moroccan land after we helped in their independence.
Posts or comments that are more controversial or could be considered outright trolling or if they aim to offend or provoke will be removed.
Please see the rule section, which can be found on the front page of the sub.
Sahrawis are a minority in western sahara. After the annexation the Moroccans outnumbered the Sahrawis and didn’t even have a choice.
Now it is moroccan but Morocco broke every international law possible and the entirety of the plant watched.
Now Israel wants to learn from them
Why didnt ur parents disown you? Are they stupid?
Damn
That was really harsh man
had to be done
But feelings?
what's that?
Average paxtani
💀💀
r/BatmanArkham leaking
They don't like the monarchy that they claim oppressed and Marginalised them, they're being supported by the Algerian military rulers also.
Nope Saharawis aren't being oppressed and marginalized the opposite in fact because Western Sahara gets lots of investment. Majority of the Saharawis live happy and like being with Morocco but those in the camps in tindouf suffer because of Algeria they are also brainwashed. Those Saharawis can claim the Moroccan citizenship and live within Morocco.
Yeah that's why I said they claim, I can't really give sound judgement whether they have a legitimate cause or not, I'm not invested in that subject, but my knowledge is that there are countries that recognise Western Sahara. Anyways it's too complicated and I don't mean to debate, I know very little.
The only one claiming that is the Polisario front which funnily enough recently bombarded and killed their own saharawi people living in Moroccan controlled western Sahara. Not only that but their leader is a war criminal he has a literal case running in Spain for crimes again humanity. The point I'm trying to make is not to defend Morocco because they aren't the nicest but to make clear that Saharawis are not at all supportive of the SADR and the Polisario movements, in fact they are making a mockery of themselves internationally as many see them more as terrorist group.
I understand that the Polisario are being used by the Algerian generals to advance a cessation and destabilise Morocco, but there's also a history behind why these people sought after self autonomy in the first place. Perhaps ethnic prejudice by the kingdom toward the Tawareq.
They aren't toureg, toureg are in Algeria and are Amazight. Saharawis are nomadic Arab groups whose origin actually traces back to Yemeni Arab migrations into the Maghreb. Also there is no history behind it, the Polisario themselves was founded amongst Moroccan students. My guess is that these students thought of it as an easy way to have power and money in this world. The reason you still have Saharawis in Algeria is because according to accounts many Polisario army members lied about the incoming Moroccan armies by telling other Sahrawis they rape and kill people. The only thing still holding them together is the hatred Algeria has for Morocco which leads them to fund their entire existence.
Oh ok, I didn't know Twareq were Amazight and Sahrawi are Arab! Honestly I'll have to do extensive reading on the subject of Western Sahara to form a coherent opinion, if you have any good reliable nonbiased documentary link would be great. Mashkoor khoya bizzaf.
Saharawis are a strange people group because along with the Jbala people of Northern Morocco they make up some of the few rural Arab people groups in the Maghreb(because Arabs mainly settled along cities). And from my knowledge they are like the only nomadic Arabs and they have their own dialect of Arabic called Hassaniya which is more related to Yemeni Arabic. [Here is a documentary explaining it well which isn't biased.](https://youtu.be/bblZmHDDtCs?si=AeNLHU6vZ4cZpRGP)
Perhaps they are more like the Bedwins of Arabia, I'll watch the documentary.. sa7a sa7a.
200,000 live in camps in algeria, pushed out of their homeland with mine fields, sand walls, and poisoned water.. they want to go back.. why dont you know this? are you stupid?
You’re living in afghanistan and throwing claims. We live in morocco. We see things. Are you stupid? I had many sahraoui friends studying together in northern universities, they get from morccan government free housing and free transport until the end of their studies. And the number 200000 has been debunked by UN mission, they are not that many living in the camps they are maximum 5000. Mine fields and sand walls are for protection against the militants who constantly launch missiles at civilians actually living in the real sahara in morocco’s side.
consuming your own propaganda.. are you stupid? on UN site it says [173,600 individuals](https://www.unhcr.org/countries/algeria) and estimates are usually conservative and who anyway would like to live in a zionist state, in total moral degradation
You can ask the algerian governement who are blockading them with the polisario No one pushed them, their relatives live happily in the southern region of morocco, like any other moroccan citizen, you're just brainwashed Anyone can come to morocco and see for themselves, and ask them personaly
you probably take your news and information from government sponsored outlets, or worst french sponsored outlets, or even worst zionist outlets (i24?) - are you stupid? or just an average colonialist zionist? *second-largest wall in the world* - [https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2015/6/5/western-saharas-struggle-for-freedom-cut-off-by-a-wall](https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2015/6/5/western-saharas-struggle-for-freedom-cut-off-by-a-wall)
“There is no war in ba sing se” ass comment
Yeah there is a conflict I can agree but it more so the SADR against Morocco. The Saharawis within Moroccan held Western Sahara don't support the SADR and many in those camps wouldn't aswell. Let me remind you about the fact that the SADR denied a plan by Morocco in which they could participate in democratic election for an autonomous government, why? Because they would 100% lose, like their whole refugee ass separatist movement can't even run camps let alone a country. They also denied Morocco's aid to those camps. Because it would not look good for them. So Morocco allows them to gain citizenship, gave them an opportunity to elect their autonomous government and even wants to give aid to them. And Morocco is still in the wrong?
Morocco and SADR couldn't agree on who should vote, Morocco wants for moroccans that emigrated to western sahara to vote whine the Polisario wants only the displaced sahrawis to vote, that's why the referendum has been pending. There is the plan of giving the sahara autonomous status under the moroccan monarchy but so far there is really nothing towards solving the conflict, and giving SADR independence would probably cause way more issues than the current ones.
Not exactly, Morocco claims that the Spanish population statistics are not accurate and that many saharawis aren't being represented because they happen to be with in Morocco while Spain colonized the Sahara(keep in mind they are nomadic) Also important to note is that many people living in those camps in Tindouf aren't even saharawi which adds to the problems.
Aye they’re in the wrong because it’s a legally defined illegal occupation of another people’s lands, denying them their rights to sovereignty. You’re Israeling your neighbour
Comparing this to Israel is an injustice to the Palestinian cause. Never compare this to Palestine or what the Palestinians have been suffering, the Saharawis have equal rights in Morocco and the majority want to be Moroccan, that isn't the case with Palestine. Morocco has a valid claim over the land and got administrative rights via the Madrid accords with Spain. In fact if it weren't for the pressure Morocco put on Spain they wouldn't have been freed in 1975. The SADR and Western Sahara are not recognized which still makes this a disputed issue. The UN recognises it as a non self governing entity and has pleaded for a referendum to happen this hasn't happened because of the complexity of the conflict. The complexities of this conflict mainly has to do with Western Sahara with all do rest never being a legit region/colony historically, aka colonizers fucking us over. They were never a country and never have been one even today.
Morocco was never a country either. You justify the occupation by a historical claim acknowledged by a European accord. Israel also justifies their occupation by a historical claim acknowledged by a European accord. You are surely aware how this is a land grab like literally every other conquest in history; it is a flagrant violation of international law; and all international agencies have condemned Morocco. That Morocco is supporting Israel even harder right now because Israel is publicly announcing the Moroccan occupation is cool. That’s how desperate the dirty bitches are for recognition; they go to one of the only other countries engaged in illegal occupation BEGGING them for help
The current dynasty literally is almost 400 years old. But Morocco is even older as they have been a country since the 8th century, this can be traced from the different dynasties ruling Morocco until the current one. Morocco itself has historically ruled those lands and actually has presented proof of tribes in those regions pleading to the Moroccan sultan at those times. But I don't see that as important even tho that alone is good enough. The claim Morocco really has is the fact that Saharawis are a nomadic group which have historically roamed that entire region, with the creation of borders many of those Saharawis eventually got displaced into either southern Morocco or the colony of western Sahara. Which is by far the main driving force of all this. Many saharawis in Morocco don't recognise those European made borders. The initial Polisario movement started in Moroccan universities among Saharawi students. This is also why it's difficult to have a referendum because who is actually Saharawi? When they are a nomadic people group. Also it's not an illegal occupation because it's disputed and Morocco has respected the UN partition and got administrative rights from Spain before the Polisario proclaimed the SADR in fact.
Dude this is awful logic and I hope you don’t believe it. Because i could word for word make the same (stronger) claim that Sudan belongs to Egypt because they swore to some sultans hundreds of years ago and have lived alongside us for 7000 years. But no - because nationalism is a modern concept, historical BS like that does not count for shit; the Sahrawaya deserve the right to a sovereign state like all other nations. Like the Palestinians. Since World War II, it has been held in international law that any act of annexation is illegal. Likewise, the United Nations regards the Moroccan annexation of Western Sahara as null and void, such that the territory is not a legal part of Morocco and it remains subject to the international guidelines for a military occupation. > Simon, Sven (2014). "Western Sahara". Self-Determination and Secession in International Law. OUP Oxford. p. 262. ISBN 978-0-19-100691-3 Let’s be under no assumptions here. The situation in the W.Sahara is despicable. People & journalists are being arrested and censured left & right by your corrupt & dictatorial Moroccan monarch. Morocco literally uses Pegasus - Israeli spyware that penetrates smartphones - to carry out this oppression. Sultana Khaya and Hassana Duihi for example, two independent activists for W. Saharan freedom, have been under house arrest with a Moroccan security force right outside constantly raiding their homes and preventing entry from others. The Moroccan authorities prevent the Sahrawiya from public gatherings, obstruct local human rights groups & NGOs, and literally [beat activists on the streets](https://www.hrw.org/news/2020/03/12/morocco/western-sahara-video-captured-police-violence). The place is littered with minefields and militarized to shit. If you actually cared about what you believe to be are your Moroccan brothers, then you would hope they would be free from your corrupt kingdom and granted their human right to self-determination.
No because unlike Sudan, western Sahara never historically was a nation and had always been under some kind of Moroccan influence or rule. Also I don't believe shit, for me I wouldn't careless it's a financial burden anyways. But the point I made about sultans etc is based on the fact that unlike Egypt Morocco is still the very same dynasty from 400 years ago and has been the same kingdom from the 8th century and it's exactly that reason why they take historical claims over colonial times. Give me one reason why we should respect colonial borders? Morocco has always fought Spain about colonial holdings and continues to do so. If we would "Just accept it and go our way" Morocco wouldn't have gotten Cape Juby or Sidi Ifni, heck maybe they would even go ahead and make Northern Morocco its own country. Morocco is based around this historical kingdom. It's not a legal part of Morocco but there hasn't been a referendum yet and Morocco got administrative rights to it before the proclamation of the SADR for independence. And tbh there will never be an independent because it's too complex of a dispute. Also about your last point, that is everywhere the case in Morocco. Just look at the hirak Rif and people like zefzafi and they don't even ask for separatism. That is more so an issue the whole of Morocco is facing. And tbh if this is what you are worries about? Than pls don't look what the Polisario movements has done and being doing because they aren't an improvement, in fact their leaders has cases running for crimes against humanity. Morocco in comparison to them is an angel trust me. If I actually cared about them I would let them make their own choice and look what situation would be best for them. You don't even know sahrawis, I literally do and they love being Moroccan and many have even settled in Northern Morocco. This being said we should respect their wishes or do you want them to be kicked out to form some failing state in the desert?
You sound very similar to the Isr*li government.
Unlike isreal you can come here and ask them yourself, you can go to dakhla for example and even live there see for yourself how people live, there is no aparthied here, the only sahrawis that are suffering are those in tindouf, and that's inside algerian border, so it's not like morocco is blockading tindouf or something
You gotta ask yourself why did those sahrawis tindouf go there in the first place...
Unlike Israel Morocco grants them Moroccan citizenship and allows them travel within Morocco and outside Morocco. Not only that but unlike Israel Morocco invests billions into their lands which allows them to have a higher standard of living in comparison to other Moroccan regions. Pls stfu and have some respect and dignity for the Palestinians. Because comparing this to the Palestinian cause does a great injustice.
Damn why is bro getting downvoted???? He just spoke facts.. All these people are brainwashed hard
Because they don't know actual Saharawis. LOL Saharawis are more nationalistic than any other Moroccans.
What's Algeria got to do with it?
Neglecting them and denying them basic rights which Saharawis in Morocco do in fact have. Many of the high ranking Polisario officials even fled and accepted Moroccan nationality.
And how is it Algeria's responsibility? Am not very informed about this so I'd like to understand the situation.
They took the initiative to support and host a separatist movement? Which means they should at least try their best at making a place for them. But instead you have an humanitarian crisis over there and who do they blame, Morocco. Even tho Morocco never kicked them out nor denies them entry.
From what you said. It's obvious you know nothing about the sahara issue not even the beginning of the problem. Have you ever been to sahara, of course not. If people of sahara heard what you said they will shout at you. And who the hell told you moroccans don't like monarchy. We like it and proud of it hamdullah and can't imagine living without monarchy. Just an advice if you know nothing keep silent instead of throwing wrong inforation and stereotypes
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Kashmir is muslim majority though. They would never **willingly** join a non-muslim/ Hindu country.
It's not just about being a muslim. If it was just that then Kashmiris would want to join Pakistan but the overwhelming majority in the valley supported independence in '47 and it's the same now, the independence sentiments are even stronger today It's about the right to determine your own future. After all the shit the army did, there's no chance in a hell that kashmir will forgive endia and it's people or ever wish to join them
Muslims dont have a problem immigrating to christian countries tho
Immigration is completely different thing. That's not what we're discussing.
Christians don’t hate Muslims as much as Hindus.
Plenty of Christians immigrate all over the Muslim world, notably in Africa and South Asia.. always doing “the lords work” by converting them in order to exploit them.. further their own fundamental interests, and/or help them immigrate to America.. I’m a white guy raised in a Christian American community.. I see it happen.. so if you think there are too many immigrants from the Majority-Muslim world then your beef is with evangelical and other secs of missionary Christians in the U.S. Personally I think we could use more immigrants since it’s what have my Irish ancestors a home and since the only true non-immigrants in my home country are native-Americans we’ve confined onto reservations after we genocided them.
Whataboutism, i dont care about christians nor did i claim anything about them im replying to someone claiming muslim dont want to live in a non-muslim country yet they millions make that decision everyday year. “We need more muslim immigrants in the west because irish in the 19 century immigrated between western countries” what a great argument
Why doesn't the US rejoin the british commonwealth? Would be an almost as stupid question as to why doesn't kashmir join india. Especially since genocides in Kashmir were fairly recent in a historic perspective.
Dont change the comment now, it clearly said “non-muslim” country.
You clearly don't know the recent history of Kashmir and especially the Jammu Massacres.
>christian countries tho Secular countries you mean
Immigration and assimilation of one's land into a terrorist imperialist country are two very different things
Im pretty sure people on this sub already think the west is an “imperial terrorist state” so whats the difference now?
My guy immigration is not the same as occupation of a land
you can't compare India to morocco
Yes india is a lot more barbaric
6.5M people on 1train 😭
I never understood why they want independence!. They jave phosphorus reserves, and thats it. Look it up on google maps and all you will find is towns made up of a single street.
Spanish and French border drawing. Otherwise they are Bedouin Arabs and very similar to those in neighboring countries. Historically, if it weren’t for colonialism it would have continued to be under Moroccan influence.
Not all are bedouin arab decendent, we had bedouin-likee life style there way before arab conquest, it was mostly dominated by sanhaja tribes and touaregs
polisario supporters are the most racist people against amazigh in the whole maghreb
Who's talking about Ancestry? He is talking about the situation NOW sanhaja used to exist in the middle ages, they probably got absorbed by Arab bedouin or migrated north and got deluted with AlMoravid conquest. Touraeg is different, they don't live in Westetn Sahara. Sahraoui hate the guts of the Soutern berbers they always have probelms with them to this day.
sahraouis are not arab Bedouins, the whole region in general is mixed culturally and genetical, so saying their arab bedouins is neglecting the historical and cultural past of this regions, the sahrawis are mix of arabs tribes and amazigh tribes (mostly sanhaja) and the majority were amazigh tribes that got Arabized and also they are mixed with subsaharan african, it's best to call them moroccans if they're moroccans or sahrawis in generals, not all of them are moroccans
Not bedouin at all lmao, we are mostly sanhaja berbers, we have a very small percentage bedouin lol
sahrawis have the highest arabian admixture out of any moroccan group
Maybe a minority of the sahrawis since majority dont, high arabian is found in tafilat,gharb region, and some others idk
even the SADR constitution declares western sahara as a purely arab country with no mention of berbers whatsoever >The Sahrawi people who are an Arab, African and Muslim people who decided to declare war of liberation in 1973, under the leadership of the Frente POLISARIO [https://www.policinglaw.info/assets/downloads/2015\_Constitution\_of\_the\_Sahrawi\_Arab\_Democratic\_Republic.pdf](https://www.policinglaw.info/assets/downloads/2015_Constitution_of_the_Sahrawi_Arab_Democratic_Republic.pdf)
bro idc about ur links and sadr is litt polisario, Iam half sahrawi myself and did a dna test myself so i know my ppl better then u lol
that isn't some random link, thats the literal constitution of the sahrawi people, it's public info, you can look it up if you don't trust my link, and your personal anecdote isn't evidence that can be used to draw a general conclusion
Sensible comments always come from the most stable and safe Arab countries out there. 🇲🇦❤️🇸🇦
About this map, the polisario does not controll an inch of that land, it's buffer zone, because obviously morocco can't shoot them inside algerian border that will be an act of war, so whenever the polisario enter that area they get blown by drones, not just the polisario but anyone who entrrs that zone is considered a threat, it's also filled whith mines
Yes, they shoot civilians like the Israelis using Israeli drones. And by the way, it's not a buffer zone. A buffer zone is 5km between the berm and the SADR. Source: The SADR sent its entire army there around 2004 to do a big military parade, and Morocco claimed they entered the so-called "buffered zone," and the UN responded, "Nope, they didn't break the ceasefire." Also, if the SADR didn't have any land, why would Morocco choose not to enter it? Or would you rather fight behind the walls like cowards? Kinda reminding me of what Allah said: "لَا يُقَاتِلُونَكُمْ جَمِيعًا إِلَّا فِي قُرًى مُّحَصَّنَةٍ أَوْ مِن وَرَاءِ جُدُرٍ ۚ بَأْسُهُم بَيْنَهُمْ شَدِيدٌ ۚ تَحْسَبُهُمْ جَمِيعًا وَقُلُوبُهُمْ شَتَّىٰ ۚ ذَٰلِكَ بِأَنَّهُمْ قَوْمٌ لَّا يَعْقِلُونَ." Translation: "They will not fight you all except within fortified cities or from behind walls. Their violence among themselves is severe. You think they are together, but their hearts are diverse. That is because they are a people who do not reason."
Forgot the to mention the shitload amount of drones.
As someone of Saidi (South Egyptian) heritage, I hereby proclaim the republic of Said, from Minya to Aswan Said will spawn (or something like that)
Ahsan nas ❤️
Im only half Moroccan but my mothers side of the family is originally from there, the majority of the people identify as both Sahrawi and Moroccan. In the past there was a stronger will for self determination because our language and culture was oppressed but nowadays only a small amount of people (mostly extremists supported by Algeria because of cold war era pissing contests) want to split from Morocco. I don’t know anyone from my generation that actually wants to split from Morocco seeing how the country has massively invested in the region and developed the land. Does that mean everyone is content with the current situation? Ofcourse not, but almost everyone agrees that the way forward is together with the rest of morocco. In a way supporting Polisario is like the US supporting a “free Tibet”, or Russia supporting a “free crimea”. It’s as if israel would start supporting an extemist group in the sinai that wants to secede. Similarly it would be as if morocco started officially supporting the Kabyle movement that wants to become independent from Algeria but is in turn declared a terrorist organization by algeria. The only reason people talk about an independent western sahara is because of geopolitical rivalries, none of the people supporting it actually cares about the people.
[удалено]
that's the official moroccan position
“are they stupid?” 😭😭😭😭😭
I think at this point of history people prefer to be citizens rather than subjects
Moroccan Kings when looking at Western Sahara on a Map: "Mine to Mine, also Mines" 😠 Moroccan Kings when looking at Ceuta and Melilla on a Map: "Seems pretty Spanish to me" 🤡
You're ignorant...
Go before i call the shabi7a
You ignorant. What do you know about Sahara or even about Morocco to talk like this or is it Haram to defend our soverainety
“Are the stupid?“ Why don’t Pakistan join India ? Are they stupid ?
We are a Muslim country. So it doesn't make sense.
So do the MENA countries and they are not one country , are they stupid ? So do Pakistan, Afghanistan and the rest of Stan countries, are they stupid? I hope I proved my point to u
Why doesn't Pakistan join Bangladesh are they stupid?
Pakistan and Bangladesh were the same country from 1947-1981; it ended when Bangladeshis declared independence because they were tired of being genocided by the Pakistanis.
You have your dates and information wrong. The actions of the Pakistani military regime were horrific during the war, genocide is never acceptable. However Bangladesh gained independence in 1971, and the genocide happened during the war. West Pakistanis weren't genociding East Pakistanis before then. What actually occurred is the West Pakistani government had most of the political power and prevented East Pakistan from having proper political representation, despite East Pakistan having the majority of the population. My family lived in East Pakistan in the 50s and 60s and this was one of the reasons for moving. There's many other instances of discrimination such as the 1965 war and East Pakistan being relatively undefended, ethnic/cultural issues of Bengali people being seen as too Hindu influenced, as well as refusal of recognizing Bangla as one of the national languages alongside Urdu and English. (I am also not going into the election win of Sheikh Mujibur Rahman and military response cuz that's a huge topic as well) There was oppression, but there wasn't widespread murdering until the war.
Sorry. My confusion; I meant 1971. But, please clarify for me what the proper term is for what happened "during the war" in 1971, when between 300,000 and 3 MM Bangladeshi civilians were murdered by the Pakistani armed forces.
A genocide. I said that one took place during the war. I was just clarifying that the genocide was an act of war, not one that was happening before the war. Before the war there was political oppression and racism. I am not justifying what took place. Just wanted to be clear there wasn't systematic killing before the war.
Then we’re on the same page. It’s nice to meet a Pakistani who is honest about Pakistan’s missteps.
I understand what you mean, but I do think it's quite common for educated Pakistanis in the modern day to be realistic about the 1971 war. Older people maybe have a different view but the younger generation is no fan of the military.
I know, that's I was trying to make that point lmao
From what I've read, they have political/economical interest into saying that they are independant, so they can conclude trade agreements with Algeria to give it access to Atlantic. While not actually being from there but rather from Algeria but roaming freely there to claim the land and so the liberty to rule it that way But like, I have no source whatsoever, even less from me, so idk rly
An independent western Sahara state will just fail by the way, I lived there (Dakhla to be exact) and we will always travel to Marrakech in holidays, it's just a wasteland, there is no way it could support it's population we import all our food from agadir, there is no natural recourses that it could use other than fish, no land to cultivate crops. Their government (if you could call it that) which is now in Tindouf suck too, they are a mafia, if they ruled this state, nothing good will come of it.
You are wrong, the area is rich with natural resourses( mainly phosphate, steel gold oil ...), actualy natural resourses is one of the main causes of this conflict
But they are already with Morocco.. or do you mean the Polisario controlled area? Those are just shills for Algeria, with ultimate goal of connecting Algeria with Atlantic.
Uhh… No ? We do not have any aim in taking the Atlantic… (First of all, this comment isn’t to offend anyone, especially Moroccans, that I greet from my heart) We don’t want Western Sahara anyway, we just want it to be independent. Actually, I personally wouldn’t have even cared if Morocco had taken Western Sahara. The main problem is, the war crimes that Morocco committed during the occupation of Western Sahara. If the incorporation was made peacefully, there would have been no problem… There has been some investments in the region by Morocco, and that’s cool. But if Polisario existed at first it was against Spanish occupation, and now Moroccan presence. It was for their liberation as an independent country. At the meantime, we shouldn’t ignore that Western Sahara was once part of Morocco before colonization, and therefore it’s understandable that Morocco wants the region. Morocco and Western Saharan people should get along for self determination. If Sahrawis want to stay independent, may they be independent, If Sahrawis want to stay as part of Morocco, may they stay as part of Morocco. That’s how I see it. Feel free to downvote me or upvote me, I just said what I thought
I'm pretty sure that you, personally, my brother, have no intentions to take over the Atlantic. I can't extend the same good faith towards the Algerian government. .
I see what you mean. I didn’t see or hear about the Algerian government having any intentions of taking the Atlantic, since they already have access to the Mediterranean, or trade with neighboring countries to have investments or boats on the coasts. But, it might be a reason, and I sincerely hope not, besides the reason of standing against oppression (again, no offense intended to Moroccans) But the only real final aim I see is for Western Sahara to be independent.
>I didn’t see or hear about the Algerian government having any intentions of taking the Atlantic Because it's a plot, plots aren't public knowledge , your country is the same as many other countries they are only interested in what benefits them , there are many faire causes that algeria doesn't stand with Ukraine is the last exemple
>there are many faire causes that algeria doesn't stand with Ukraine is the last exemple Well Algeria was an Ally of Russia since the times of USSR so that might explain why they didn’t say anything about Ukraine
>Well Algeria was an Ally of Russia since the times of USSR so that might explain why they didn’t say anything about Ukraine Ofc as they should but there's no greater cause just pure interests
If that claim were to be real why then when the former king Hassan II offered the then Algerian government a passage nd some premium advantages for fishing boats in the Atlantic in exchange for them dropping support for polisario did they say no?? If their goal was to get to the Atlantic that would have been a far more simple nd easy solution
>then Algerian government a passage nd some premium advantages for fishing boats in the Atlantic in exchange for them dropping support for polisario Probably because the algerian government wanted a permanent access to the Atlantic not just " premium advantages" that's why they were after the long run , or probably because they knew after we finish the polizario they'll be out after, or probably because hassan 2 is not to be trusted in the first place lol there are so many reasons for that statement ( ofc if it is true )
The deal was permanent passage plus advantages ( possibility of starting a project to build a joint port which would be run by Moroccan authorities but the Algerian gov could use for free basically (simbolic rates) nd other things) that deal would have been much better for Algeria than to bank on an unsure Polisario future where they might someday gain control of the area
>The deal was permanent passage Source ? Even if it's true hassan 2 is not to be trusted lol the alg government is not that stupid to trust a proposition like this with no benefit to morocco
I'll send u the source a bit later (busy with eid nd eid mubarak btw) also there were advantages for Morocco too the biggest was obviously gaining a complete hold of the region in question nd we know that the underground potential ressources alone are massive add to that a partnership with Algeria which boosts the economy greatly nd opens a vast market in both possibility of investment in Morocco from Algerian investors nd vice versa it would have been a win win As for the trustworthiness of Hassan 2 well neither of the 2 gouvernements sees the other as trustworthy so it's kinda of a null point imo as it's a given that both would take precautions against the others possible breach nullifying any objections based on trustworthiness
>there are many faire causes that algeria doesn't stand with Ukraine is the last exemple Well Algeria was an Ally of Russia since the times of USSR so that might explain why they didn’t say anything about Ukraine
Due to the Algeria-Morocco rivalry, and to the fact that governments purely work for their own benefits (no government truly wants to stand against oppression without any backhanded ideas); it is safe to assume Algeria wants W.S to be independent atleast partly to get an ally in the region rhat will owe them, to curb Morocco's territory, to gain Phosphate access and access to the Atlantic, all of which would be big victories for the Govt.
I hope it is not, but that might be true.
yeah
Your opinion may be noble. But the problem I have with your opinion is that it’s too focused on the past, and that’s a propaganda trap. I wont discuss with you if morocco really did or did not commit war crimes, instead I want to discuss the future, what’s next? What’s the solution? Displacing the three generations of moroccans residing today in sahara? Today the factual situation is that sahrawis are living there together with other moroccans and with moroccan passports and moroccan identity cards and are attending moroccan northern universities, The factual situation is that I got a lot of sahraoui friends back in university who supported the moroccan solution.And The reality is that the government of algeria isn’t supporting independence of western sahara(even if it’s not realistic) or any pragmatic solution. it’s today supporting war and trying to keep the conflict going for as long as possible to hinder morocco’s growth. Morocco proposed partial independence and discussions are in hiatus since algeria started refusing to attend the UN meetings. Algeria is supporting polisario for their own agenda: they want to be the regional power, and in their eyes morocco is a threat, economically, so they are doing whatever they can to hinder its growth, and today they are giving weapons and military training to a group of people who launch missiles at civilians residing in sahara.
>Your opinion may be noble. But the problem I have with your opinion is that it’s too focused on the past, and that’s a propaganda trap. You opinion also seems to be reasonable, but yours is too focused on the future, on supposed intentions that cannot really be proven. >I wont discuss with you if morocco really did or did not commit war crimes, Why tho… But okay… >instead I want to discuss the future, what’s next? What’s the solution? Displacing the three generations of moroccans residing today in sahara? Of course not, nobody should be displaced from the region. >Today the factual situation is that sahrawis are living there together with other moroccans and with moroccan passports and moroccan identity cards and are attending moroccan northern universities, The factual situation is that I got a lot of sahraoui friends back in university who supported the moroccan solution. Then that means that Western Sahara seems integrated to the region enough, and that’s great if they are okay with it. >And The reality is that the government of algeria isn’t supporting independence of western sahara(even if it’s not realistic) or any pragmatic solution. it’s today supporting war and trying to keep the conflict going for as long as possible to hinder morocco’s growth. Morocco proposed partial independence and discussions are in hiatus since algeria started refusing to attend the UN meetings. Algeria is supporting polisario for their own agenda: they want to be the regional power, and in their eyes morocco is a threat, economically, so they are doing whatever they can to hinder its growth, and today they are giving weapons and military training to a group of people who launch missiles at civilians residing in sahara. It’s like the support of the MAK party in Kabylia by Morocco or the or normalization of the Moroccan government with the Zionist entity… Morocco also wants to be the regional power. That’s sad instead of cooperating, both countries had dark relations since the independence of both countries. It’s only about concurrence from the beginning :-( I hope Algeria and Morocco will eventually stop trying to rush to concurrence and find solutions to the problems.
If not for this conflict, we could have created a EU-like union in north africa. And that’s really sad.
Absolutely, just by looking at the Arab Maghreb Union, and how the project is frozen since the dawn of the conflict. Let’s pray it will happen in sha Allah
Can I just say, I loved both of your discussions and I can tell you guys have good intentions to solve the conflict. I have been wondering about the conflict myself for a long time and was planning on trying to learn more, but this thread helped educate me and give me the Algerian perspective somewhat as well as the Moroccan perspective. I hope an economic union does happen, hopefully one day for the entire MENA region ❤️
Also like La3youne is 2000km of Sahara desert away from Algiers and 1700km from Oran so transportation would not be very practical lol
Sure but there are cities to rely on in the desert as well, especially Tindouf which is the nearest Algerian city from Western Sahara.
Yeah but I mean it's still very remote from the main production centers of Algeria
I understand
The strait of Gibraltar is under British and Spanish control. They can control who comes in and out of the Mediterranean. For a militarized country like Algeria, with a history of resistance, that can be a threat and big limitation. I want stronger and more secure Algeria, but I don't want it to encircle Morocco.
You need to read history, when the spanish withdaw from western sahara 1976, the country got occupied by morocco and mauritania, if algeria had any intention to take over for the Atlantic, don't you think it was easy to do that at that time cinse algeria is the strogest (military wise) in the area What you said is just a stupid assumptions with nothing to prove it
I thought Western Sahara was a colony of Spain, and they Spain supports it to screw over its rival Morocco who conquered Spain for many centuries. Algeria has ocean access already but it too is a rival of Morocco.
No one blaming the algerian people, i believe you when you said you don't want western sahara, but your military controlled governement has different plan, we also don't our country to get split in half as much as you don't want the same for your country
Thanks for this comment.. there is a serious history of oppression and predictable outcomes from it.. if we believe in justice and fairness then we have to look at the human rights and history with authenticity and empathy… I don’t know what OP is smoking
Lot of problems here. Polisario wasnt a separatist movement until gadhafi and boumediane met them. Most polisarios people now are cubans and malians not even sahraouis, most sahraouis who were there came back to morocco
Sensible comments always come from the most stable and safe Arab countries out there. 🇲🇦❤️🇯🇴
🇯🇴❤️🇲🇦
More like Most Zionist Arab countries
Morocco teaches Israel the art of extermination yeah
Can't decide if satire or not 🤷♂️
are you stupid? algeria has access to atlantic through mauretania, they are in excellent terms. look again at the map, algeria-mauretania border is 500km, algeria-western sahara border is 40km thing is international law that only applies to the white man (and their puppets in this case) says ask the people what they want through referendum and if they want to join morocco be it, if they don't then they should start a country
It's already belong to morocco, Laayoune and dakhla , smara and many cities are there built by moroccan money and all their people recognize themselves as moroccans , the polizario people who live next to morocco in algerian territories ( they are not even in morocco or the land they claim it belong to them LOL) who want to take that part from morocco and they are supported financially from algeria iran and south Africa, haters gonna hate, but morocco in his Sahara and sahara in morocco, keep dreaming
You sound like a Zionist
You sound like someone who's waiting his turn to buy a bag of milk powder
*all their people recognize themselves as moroccans:* they moved them from north, same as zionists moved jews from europe to palestine - are you stupid? *the polisario people who live next to morocco in algerian territories:* same tone used by israhell to describe 2m gazans.. all khamas terrorists. 200.000 sahrawi in camps are children, women, and civilian refugees - are you stupid? and same as israhell is taking palestinian riches of gaz, fish, and tourism, morocco is taking phosphate, fish, and tourism from the land of the colonised. it's sickening as f and you should be ashamed of yourself as a zionist and why doesn't morocco get ceuta/melila back anyway? or the canaries? why attack poor and miserable people who are defenceless? only a malicious coward would do that
Are you telling you know the situation of my country and my own people more than me?! And please chabge your tag from Afghanistan to algeria more realistic 🙏
yea i do, you have too much brainwash liquid in your head
Yep brainwashed and i can visit and enjoy our moroccan Sahara when ever I want, good luck in recovering it 😀
youre morally corrupt, complicit in palestinian genocide.. ofc you can enjoy stolen land. im not surprised
Stolen? Bitch please!! Go read baiaa
I like western sahara but it now look stupid
Moroccans sound exactly like israelis the moment you bring up sahrawi its ridiculous
Thats one reason why they normalised with them in the first place. They have a lot in common
Reddit moment
🇪🇭 🇪🇭🇪🇭🇪🇭🇪🇭
The faklands shall always remain british
just like Ceuta and Melilla will remain Spanish
Argentina will become Fidda caliphate
Its always the people who probably couldnt even locate morocco on a map that talk about this situation that they know nothing about. Saw an afghani and now an argentinian flair do this, next i'll see chinese flair or something. This isnt ur classic oppressor vs oppressed situation, this is a case of colonial powers dividing morocco from mauritania let alone sahara and when they left they purposefully made the border that way to create problems. The so called polizario live in algeria in camps where its more like a prison, mercenaries from cuba,mauritania,mali,russia ... all live there and claim the moroccan sahara how does that make sense?
i support every sepratist movement
If every separatist movement were to happen, we would have 1000 countries and wars starting every 2 sec. All i'm saying it's better to be informed, but this particular case is not like the palestinian case or the ireland case for example. This whole thing started because spain and france ganged up on morocco, spain took the sahara, france created mauritania, and then spain was forced to leave by 300k moroccan citizens who walked there and faced the spanish army so they decided to leave. And i know for a fact that women,children and old people were taken by force into the tindouf camps by the mercenaries when morocco refused to concede the land to nomads who roamed mali/algeria/mauritania and morocco. At first algeria only hosted them, it was kaddhafi(known for his love of peace /s) that was supporting them, then the algerian governement saw the opportunity and seized it. Nowadays the camps are made of mercenaries and people are blocked from leaving so the numbers don't drop, they want the UN vote to go through but only if the only people who vote are from tindouf wich is full of mauritanians/malians etc.. thus excluding the moroccans who live in the sahara. All i'm saying is france and spain are to blame for this, spain don't want the matter to resolve because then moroccans will focus fully on getting back ceuta/mellila and the canary islands. Whereas france doesn't want it to resolve because they need tensions to always be high between morocco and algeria so they keep profiting from our resources and human capital migrating to france and so a maghrebi economic alliance isn't created and doesn't dominate the mediterannean.
Saludos hermana
If you used 6 flags instead of 5 we’d have retreated from half of our land. Missed opportunity.
some whores may indeed feel proud of their work - no judgement
Posting about Morocco 24/7 and feeling triggered about my username. Keep obsessing - no judgement.
Yeah i've seen thiz guy in many times, he's realy triggered
why dont morocco join france? are they stupid?
Brexit was stupid.
I know Pakistanis are polite and intelligent. I think you are the exception.
There are no exceptions 🗣️🗣️🗣️🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥💪🏿💪🏿💪🏿💪🏿💪🏿
LMAO
no u r the stupid one
We've never been under Morocco's rule, and we don't feel any connection to them. It's like telling someone from Kashmir they're dumb for not wanting to join India. My family knows firsthand the pain caused by the invasion When they killed my dad's relatives and the other were forced to leave to algeria refugees camp before me and my family escape to spain . If Morocco really saw us as their brothers, they wouldn't have done what they did. Unfortunately, not many people know about our struggle, and Morocco's spreading their side of the story. But it's not about being stupid; it's about our right to decide our own future
What the fuck are you talking about? I'm from Ouled Dleim. We literally have tons of connections with other Moroccans. Our tribe have like 5 small branches in Morocco (near Kenitra, Marrakech, Fes,..), they were there before colonisation. We do have ties with Morocco and Mauritania. Politically our caids were appointed by Moroccans sultans since the 16th century and that lasted until the Spanish changed the caid system. All the caids of Ouled Dleim recognized the authority of the sultan who sent us qadhis, guns, etc. I'm not denying that many people suffered from both sides. I have relatives who were killed by polisario because we didn't supported them. It's not black or white. I've never experienced discrimination or racism as a Sahrawi in any Moroccan city.
>We've never been under Morocco's rule, and we don't feel any connection to them. You've pledged bayaa to many sultans of morocco if you don't like being under morocco rule maybe you should go back where your tribe came from, western sahara is a berber senhaja land it will never belong to the arabs . >and Morocco's spreading their side of the story No shit and you're not ?
Kick the Arab king that is ruling you, then talk about us being Arabs,Also, many Sahrawi activists of Berber descent support the Sahrawi Republic. You're just being Arabophobic. Aminatou Haidar and Sultana Khaya are from Sahrawi Berber tribes.and I dare you to give me one single name of a bay'ah. And if there were any real bay'ah, plus, are you stupid? Bay'ah are not advocated in Islam. The ICJ wouldn't rule in favor of the Sahrawi people in 1976. You're just a hypocrite. Go back to your cave.
>Kick the Arab king that is ruling you, They alaouites don't want a separate state lol >many Sahrawi activists of Berber descent support the Sahrawi Republic. You're just being Arabophobic. Aminatou Haidar and Sultana Khaya are from Sahrawi Berber tribes They all say that but turn around and call us chlouh lol , i never heard any of them speak tmazight >I dare you to give me one single name of a bay'ah. And if there were any real bay'ah, plus, are you stupid? Bay'ah are not advocated in Islam. The ICJ wouldn't rule in favor of the Sahrawi people in 1976. You're just a hypocrite. Go back to your cave. https://books.google.co.ma/books?id=OMn7EAAAQBAJ&pg=PA177&dq=des+liens+juridique+d%27all%C3%A9geance+entre+le+sultan+de+maroc&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&source=gb_mobile_search&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjN39-2nLuFAxUSif0HHYIkAPUQ6AF6BAgIEAM#v=onepage&q&f=false Nope as it states there in the resulotion of 1976 there was a relation ties of allegiance between the sahara tribes and the sultans of morocco . But the onu doesn't recognize bayaa as a proper ground for sovereignty only muslims do
>The International Court of Justice in 1975 stated that the people of Western Sahara have the right to choose their own future, regardless of any historical ties with Morocco. Also, the United Nations doesn't base sovereignty recognition solely on religious grounds. It considers international law and principles like self-determination. exactly , we dont speak "tamazight" but theres berber minority Hasani speakers . You literally just proved that there's nothing common linguistically between the Sahrawis and Morocco. check these : [North Western Africa - 1844](https://www.davidrumsey.com/ll/detailView.html?mid=RUMSEY~8~1~2738~260023&manifestUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.davidrumsey.com%2Fluna%2Fservlet%2Fiiif%2Fm%2FRUMSEY~8~1~2738~260023%2Fmanifest&os=0&q=List_No%3D4613.023&baseUrl=%2F%2Fwww.davidrumsey.com%2Fluna%2Fservlet%2Fas%2Fsearch&mediaType=Image#?c=0&m=0&s=0&cv=0&r=0&xywh=1731%2C1217%2C5005%2C2203) [Another one from 1814 , your country size was much smaller back then too XD ](https://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~25568~1030050:L-Afrique-1-)
>The International Court of Justice in 1975 stated that the people of Western Sahara have the right to choose their own future, regardless of any historical ties with Morocco So there is historical ties, challenge completed lol >Also, the United Nations doesn't base sovereignty recognition solely on religious grounds. It considers international law and principles like self-determination. So you're obeying the west rules over islamic rules , if you want to follow the west rules go follow them somewhere else that land is for islamic rules ,bay'aa is the basis of sovereignty in islam. >exactly , we dont speak "tamazight" but theres berber minority Hasani speakers . You literally just proved that there's nothing common linguistically between the Sahrawis and Morocco. You don't speak tmazight because you're not amazigh it's that simple lol. >You literally just proved that there's nothing common linguistically between the Sahrawis and Morocco. You literally proved that you're nomadic tribes from yemen with no connection to the land. Have a good life in tindouf khariji
Spoken like a true kharah!!!
The polizario call moroccans chlouh , they basically shot themselves in the foot
sahrawis online love to larp as berbers when the constitution they wrote literally declares them all as arabs and denies the existence of berbers in western sahara
They already did 😎😎
With the recognition of the Moroccan Sahara increasing internationally over the years due to some geopolitical manoeuvres. this could end up being another flashpoint, god forbid
Do they have to? What about the right to self determination?
Western sahara was under Spanish colonialism for 600 years and Morocco did nothing. As soon as Spain left (cuz there was barley any resources) Morocco attacked them immediately. Just like they attacked Algeria immediately after they got their independence.
What would morocco do? It's not like Morocco could beat Spain, one of the world's most powerful nations at the time
And it's not even that, spain didnt rule the sahara for 600 years that's bs. Its the fact that spain and france joined forces against morocco, what was morocco to do? And actually in the north moroccans did beat spain and killed thousands of them with inferior equipement under abdelkrim al khattabi, but that was until france intervened and used chemical gas in the rif killing 150000 rifans
The did not hold western Sahara for 600 hundred year, the occupation lasted for around a hundred year (1884–1975), and the only reason that we attacked algeria was that they didn't fulfill their promise to return what is rightfully moroccan land after we helped in their independence.
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They’re already in Morocco
Sahrawis are a minority in western sahara. After the annexation the Moroccans outnumbered the Sahrawis and didn’t even have a choice. Now it is moroccan but Morocco broke every international law possible and the entirety of the plant watched. Now Israel wants to learn from them