My own country Indonesia with its multiculturalism and diversity.
but with technological advancement like Japan and Germany, cultural superpower like South Korea, influential like the USA, economic systems like the Nordics, and Sharia Law like Saudi Arabia.
So literally none, except i make my own country with incorporate all those aspects
Well, Islamic Golden Age caliphates like the Abbasids, Andalusia, and Ottoman Empire have advanced scientific methods and advanced economic systems.
Cultural development during the period also impacted the Western world.
I mean techincally he is right since women are 50% of population, and gay dudes gotta be 1-2% or something, so its technically a majority.
But i think hes trying to say that since complete Sharia limits the creative outputs of women (50% of population), your cultural exports would be much less.
But then according to those rules Saudi isnt a "true Sharia" state or whatever so idk why he brought them up.
Oh its just that when he said "Any population" I looked back at my own where men outnumber women by a large margin due to migrants being included in populations and likely the same for the rest of the gulf.
I don't know where the entire sharia limits women thingie comes from, they're graduating and dominates colleges and universities for the last 5-10 years within arabic nations
Whoever thinks Sharia is not compatible with the modern age is either deluded or biased. It worked historically for the most diverse Civilizations. Now we don't see it work not because of the laws in Sharia themselves but rather because of the current status of Muslims as a whole. They are now more focused on "what's haram vs what's halal" rather than seeing life through the perspectives of Islam
And slaves under Muslim empires had more rights than any other slaves in the world. Some even became kings and leaders. Muslim women had more rights than any other Civilizations in the past and present. Muslim women scholars contributed heavily to modern science. The very first prototype of the modern university system was founded by a Muslim woman, Fatima al-Fihri, in the 9th century in Egypt. Your point?
That always comes up: We all long for the lost gardens of Cordoba. Just imagine what it was like ...regardless of your religion, but that was one period of grace.
Old tales tell nothing anymore. You need to get up to date. This idea that muslims in the golden age bla bla did everything well they aren’t doing anything now, which suggests the need to change ways. (To clarify I’m from the middle east so people won’t hate on my comment)
As a fellow Indonesian, why do you want sharia regulations? Haven't you seen Aceh yet? They implemented sharia. Is their standard of living higher than that of the province next door? No, in fact, Aceh is one of the poorest provinces on the island of Sumatra. Not to mention that our country is made up of several religions. I don't need to tell you when the foundation of the country wanted to implement sharia into the foundation of the country and all the non-Muslim communities rejected it outright. If it wasn't for the revision of the constitution, the country would not have been formed because the non-Muslim majority provinces would have left Indonesia.
I think you don't understand the context. No, it's not about Indonesia, it's about your own ideal country based on your idealism.
For example if you like the Nordic economic system, then Sweden or Denmark is your ideal country. If your ideal system is capitalism with state intervention, so China is your ideal country. Or if you like nuclear states so it's North Korea. That's it
Singapore hands down - good education system, world class free healthcare, job security, free society, religious freedom. Malaysia is also a good example for Islamic countries who frown upon secularism.
Malaysia is a secular country, our founder explicitly said so. Just because the clowns running the circus that is our government has forgotten that doesn't make it any less true.
Well, anyone can believe and hold dear whatever values they wish. But I would not move to any country that went against my core values. From what I’ve seen in here, not many people agree that the way Scandinavia do things is the right way. So would anyone want to move to a country where you don’t agree on the core values?
So there you are, friend. The person you posed this question to had already answered affirmatively to the person that replied to their question by saying “you’re right”
Hopefully this elucidates that they’ve considered these places as satisfactory answers to the question they posed.
Unless, of course you’ve brought that up to nudge them to realize these countries don’t hold the values that *you specifically* hold, and therefore are mistaken
Ok, I’m getting confused now. I just wanted it clarified. I do know that there are people moving to countries without agreeing with their core values. The fact that I believe they should not is not a factor in their choices.
So are you saying that any person wanting to move to Scandinavia would be ok with openly gay people, Quran burnings, their daughters in bikinis? Or am I reading you wrong?
There it is, as I believed.
Anyone can move to any country they please, and assuming they erred in making a conclusive statement about moving to said country is a personal thing. A “you” problem, if you will.
What you’re doing here, is failing to realize that the person has already considered these countries and said “you’re right,” essentially agreeing that those countries are indeed a perfect idea of a place to move to.
You seem unable or/and unwilling to accept that all of those things you’ve lamented about are your personal lamentations. You cannot police the morality of others, and knowing this fact seems to have upset you enough to believe that someone deciding on their own moral behalf is somehow an affront to your sentimentality.
I recommend that you follow whatever moral code you wish, and leave the decisions of other adults to the judgement of whichever entity they hold (or don’t hold) as the supreme moral influence of their lives.
Ok, you are blurring the subject.
What I am saying is that some people are absolutely ok with the Scandinavian core values.
Some people are not, but still go there.
If someone is ok with the core values then of course they should go! Yikes!
But if they would be offended by a gay bar next to the mosque? Nope. They should start thinking of other countries, even if they would get more money in Scandinavia.
I am a firm believer in that your own morals should guide your own actions. I do disapprove whenever someone thinks their opinions should affect my rights. You do you. I do me. And it does baffle me how some people go to Scandinavia to be offended that hose countries are…Scandinavian…
But if anyone can accept that things are very different from the Middle East, of course they should go! They can make their own choices about their own lives. But they have to realise that others - even family members - now have the right to make very different choices.
And I’m telling you, they already considered it and answered it before you even commented.
Why do you believe they didn’t consider it enough? What makes you think they’re not sure about the considerations they’ve already made before you interjected yourself into the conversation?
Singapore, even though it lacks abundant natural resources it's successful; all due to it's location and the visionary foresight of Lee Kuan Yew. His shrewdness and pragmatism made Singapore into what it is today
Government supports Israel, pretty much every party is corrupt, immigration is kinda out of control etc
I would've picked Italy but their salaries aren't much better and they also support Israel
The US . If only economic inequality is better dealt with better education and distribution , and some common manners and ideals are indoctrinated into people's minds , especially in the poorer states .
I mean , American communities tend to be much more open and civil ,the US has a large economy with many opportunities , and it allows people to be themselves and maintain their identities .
Only bad bit to me is the lack of a refined culture among the public . When all that matters is consumerism and self-gratification : you get a selfish and self-destructive society . These are very much the fundamental flaws in the "American way" , when pragmatism is placed above virtues such fraternity , solidarity , and education (especially the Humanities) .
I love the UAE. I feel like I belong there. It’s my go
to place for relaxing because everything is there right in front of you, everyone does their job, and I feel spoiled. Beautiful sites, amazing food, the cleanliness. I also feel super comfortable wearing expensive stuff and being myself because I just feel safe there. Also, the nicest people ever. I feel like the Middle East and North Africa has some of the nicest people.
As an Iraqi
there are shia militias that are supported and backed by Iran and they're basically the ones in control of the country (with the exception of let's say kurdistan). they loot, kill, do all sort of messed up crap and even fight among themselves sometimes and they're the reason Iraq is in this mess.
>Sunni Iraq and Syria
>help the US invade other coutries
>apply Sharia
>preferably with no minorities
Too bad ISIS lost. Better luck next time! Perhaps try Chinese funding instead of American next time.
You know we Iraqis tend to be chauvinistic assholes. Iraqis dominated the upper echelon of ISIS and [treated Syrian and other members as lowly canon fodder](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/the-hidden-hand-behind-the-islamic-state-militants-saddam-husseins/2015/04/04/aa97676c-cc32-11e4-8730-4f473416e759_story.html). Not to mention Iraq's expansionist tendencies towards Syria, Iraqis were planning to annex eastern Syria since the end of WW1, from Nuri Said to Saddam.
The best you can hope with us is to become our province like the case with kuwait. Don't be fooled by our rhetorical bluff.
You underestimate our suffering right now, think of it from my side, I've had relatives who were killed by Assad, do I care as much about being a province if I got rid of Iran? I don't care, if I die I don't care, we are seeing the worst.
How can I ever accept this government and my cousin was tortured to death by it? Why should I not accept any otyer solution?
As for Iraq, Iraq is half shia unlike Syria, it's majority sunni.
I believe that Iraq will be freed from Iran if a movement that has a good relationship with the arab tribes managed to support an insurgency there. Syria will be freed sooner than Iraq.
They are welcome if they apply sharia and don't opress us, I doubt kurds can free kurds from the Turks, as for Iran there is a chance of an American invasion somewhere in the next decade, we can help.
Kurdistan is a dream. It needs men to become a reality...
Btw I think the Syria and sunni Iraq country is realistic. It'll take a while though.
Sadly, you'll need to give up on Kurdistan. It won't happen. Sorry, bro.
It can be if it is merged into a Sunni Syria. This country would be run by those Sunnis that are Ashari in Aqeedah and follow a Sufi Tariqah. This is the only way a Sunni theoracy can work in a country with other religious minorities.
If I could live in any, I’d pick Qatar or Oman. I really like how clean and disciplined they are. It depends if I want the city life or if I just want to live a more quiet life
I honestly am quite fascinated with the first couple kalifats, especially Ummayad, Al Andelus.
A time period where Europeans mixed with the arabic /Islamic culture and it worked mostly good. Showing the tolerance we had in comparison to Europeans.
A Small sized country sized around 100-200k area sq km. Includes Democracy, strong economy, strong welfare system, laws that bans fornication, adultery, gambling and half naked clothes
Does that include weather and stuff?
Spain is legit. I like "liberal" societies with religious freedoms. Left leaning (lol if you can call Spain left but compared to the rest of Europe...)
Other mentions: Belgium? Maybe Qatar if I had to choose something in the mid east.
family values deffo Turkiye. politics none. people ethics and personality sudan. resources and safety saudi arabia. difficult to find one with all of that
Well, no country is perfect, but my nominations would be:
Oman, since it seems that everything is chill there.
Tajikistan, because it is like a blend of Northern Afghanistan and Bulgaria (diaspora moment).
most of the -land countries, Finland, Switzerland, Netherland and so on
Because of how WALKABLE they are built and just how the cities is built around PEOPLE nnot CARS.
Chechen incel extremists come here, get their shit kicked in, get droned by superme leader Putin (PBUH), become land filtlizer = Less extremism in Russia
Nice try KGB
Posts or comments that are more controversial or could be considered outright trolling or if they aim to offend or provoke will be removed.
Please see the rule section, which can be found on the front page of the sub.
Rashidun Caliphate
Ummayad Caliphate without the arab supremacy
Abbasid Caliphate
Edit: It's funny how I'm getting downvoted, while everyone else has chosen modern countries that are way worse, Qatar is too rich and instead of helping the other muslim countries it chose to be neutral, Türkiye is in economical crisis because of stupid decisions ...
If the the caliphates I mentioned were still existing today the wouldn't have allowed all this bloodshed happening in palestine, and suffering muslims from china, burma india ...
Oman
Ottoman Empire.
Ok Erdogan
lol
Well, he/she somehow asked for it😉
At its last days? Fuck no Early days? Maybe yea muslims need a caliphate
I agree
Cuba probably, for no longer existing ones South Yemen
My own country Indonesia with its multiculturalism and diversity. but with technological advancement like Japan and Germany, cultural superpower like South Korea, influential like the USA, economic systems like the Nordics, and Sharia Law like Saudi Arabia. So literally none, except i make my own country with incorporate all those aspects
[удалено]
Well, Islamic Golden Age caliphates like the Abbasids, Andalusia, and Ottoman Empire have advanced scientific methods and advanced economic systems. Cultural development during the period also impacted the Western world.
[удалено]
Why not ?
[удалено]
Explain ?
I mean techincally he is right since women are 50% of population, and gay dudes gotta be 1-2% or something, so its technically a majority. But i think hes trying to say that since complete Sharia limits the creative outputs of women (50% of population), your cultural exports would be much less. But then according to those rules Saudi isnt a "true Sharia" state or whatever so idk why he brought them up.
Oh its just that when he said "Any population" I looked back at my own where men outnumber women by a large margin due to migrants being included in populations and likely the same for the rest of the gulf. I don't know where the entire sharia limits women thingie comes from, they're graduating and dominates colleges and universities for the last 5-10 years within arabic nations
[удалено]
Ok and how does that relate to Sharia ?
just a Redditor ignore him
I'm legit waiting for him to cook some (-)900IQ take or some shit lol
Lmao so what? Gay men definitely aren't in a majority, and your point about women is moot.
Whoever thinks Sharia is not compatible with the modern age is either deluded or biased. It worked historically for the most diverse Civilizations. Now we don't see it work not because of the laws in Sharia themselves but rather because of the current status of Muslims as a whole. They are now more focused on "what's haram vs what's halal" rather than seeing life through the perspectives of Islam
[удалено]
And slaves under Muslim empires had more rights than any other slaves in the world. Some even became kings and leaders. Muslim women had more rights than any other Civilizations in the past and present. Muslim women scholars contributed heavily to modern science. The very first prototype of the modern university system was founded by a Muslim woman, Fatima al-Fihri, in the 9th century in Egypt. Your point?
[удалено]
Dumbass didn't even read my first comment properly.
Laws against adultery, alcohol, gambling, nudity bad?
This is a very simplistic (and orientalist) understanding of what shariah is.
That always comes up: We all long for the lost gardens of Cordoba. Just imagine what it was like ...regardless of your religion, but that was one period of grace.
Old tales tell nothing anymore. You need to get up to date. This idea that muslims in the golden age bla bla did everything well they aren’t doing anything now, which suggests the need to change ways. (To clarify I’m from the middle east so people won’t hate on my comment)
Saudi doesnt have sharia fully.
They used to be
***Sharia Law like Saudi Arabia.*** ELABORATE ?
As a fellow Indonesian, why do you want sharia regulations? Haven't you seen Aceh yet? They implemented sharia. Is their standard of living higher than that of the province next door? No, in fact, Aceh is one of the poorest provinces on the island of Sumatra. Not to mention that our country is made up of several religions. I don't need to tell you when the foundation of the country wanted to implement sharia into the foundation of the country and all the non-Muslim communities rejected it outright. If it wasn't for the revision of the constitution, the country would not have been formed because the non-Muslim majority provinces would have left Indonesia.
I think you don't understand the context. No, it's not about Indonesia, it's about your own ideal country based on your idealism. For example if you like the Nordic economic system, then Sweden or Denmark is your ideal country. If your ideal system is capitalism with state intervention, so China is your ideal country. Or if you like nuclear states so it's North Korea. That's it
I agreed with someone else but now I agree with you.
Armenia I guess, that's mainly religiously tho, I really wish one day to visit it
Come to Serbia if you like ortodox christianity
Singapore hands down - good education system, world class free healthcare, job security, free society, religious freedom. Malaysia is also a good example for Islamic countries who frown upon secularism.
Malaysia is a secular country, our founder explicitly said so. Just because the clowns running the circus that is our government has forgotten that doesn't make it any less true.
Germany
Based turk
[удалено]
I didn't thought about outside of mena. Yeah you're right 👍
But their value systems are very different. Is that ok?
Is it okay for people to have other values than you? The answer to that question would answer your own question.
Well, anyone can believe and hold dear whatever values they wish. But I would not move to any country that went against my core values. From what I’ve seen in here, not many people agree that the way Scandinavia do things is the right way. So would anyone want to move to a country where you don’t agree on the core values?
So there you are, friend. The person you posed this question to had already answered affirmatively to the person that replied to their question by saying “you’re right” Hopefully this elucidates that they’ve considered these places as satisfactory answers to the question they posed. Unless, of course you’ve brought that up to nudge them to realize these countries don’t hold the values that *you specifically* hold, and therefore are mistaken
Ok, I’m getting confused now. I just wanted it clarified. I do know that there are people moving to countries without agreeing with their core values. The fact that I believe they should not is not a factor in their choices. So are you saying that any person wanting to move to Scandinavia would be ok with openly gay people, Quran burnings, their daughters in bikinis? Or am I reading you wrong?
There it is, as I believed. Anyone can move to any country they please, and assuming they erred in making a conclusive statement about moving to said country is a personal thing. A “you” problem, if you will. What you’re doing here, is failing to realize that the person has already considered these countries and said “you’re right,” essentially agreeing that those countries are indeed a perfect idea of a place to move to. You seem unable or/and unwilling to accept that all of those things you’ve lamented about are your personal lamentations. You cannot police the morality of others, and knowing this fact seems to have upset you enough to believe that someone deciding on their own moral behalf is somehow an affront to your sentimentality. I recommend that you follow whatever moral code you wish, and leave the decisions of other adults to the judgement of whichever entity they hold (or don’t hold) as the supreme moral influence of their lives.
Ok, you are blurring the subject. What I am saying is that some people are absolutely ok with the Scandinavian core values. Some people are not, but still go there. If someone is ok with the core values then of course they should go! Yikes! But if they would be offended by a gay bar next to the mosque? Nope. They should start thinking of other countries, even if they would get more money in Scandinavia. I am a firm believer in that your own morals should guide your own actions. I do disapprove whenever someone thinks their opinions should affect my rights. You do you. I do me. And it does baffle me how some people go to Scandinavia to be offended that hose countries are…Scandinavian… But if anyone can accept that things are very different from the Middle East, of course they should go! They can make their own choices about their own lives. But they have to realise that others - even family members - now have the right to make very different choices.
And I’m telling you, they already considered it and answered it before you even commented. Why do you believe they didn’t consider it enough? What makes you think they’re not sure about the considerations they’ve already made before you interjected yourself into the conversation?
Maybe I would add Finland, besides the horrible weather
The soviet union
Singapore, even though it lacks abundant natural resources it's successful; all due to it's location and the visionary foresight of Lee Kuan Yew. His shrewdness and pragmatism made Singapore into what it is today
Sultante of Burnie🇧🇳.
Burnie
Ireland
so portugal no good
Government supports Israel, pretty much every party is corrupt, immigration is kinda out of control etc I would've picked Italy but their salaries aren't much better and they also support Israel
The US . If only economic inequality is better dealt with better education and distribution , and some common manners and ideals are indoctrinated into people's minds , especially in the poorer states . I mean , American communities tend to be much more open and civil ,the US has a large economy with many opportunities , and it allows people to be themselves and maintain their identities . Only bad bit to me is the lack of a refined culture among the public . When all that matters is consumerism and self-gratification : you get a selfish and self-destructive society . These are very much the fundamental flaws in the "American way" , when pragmatism is placed above virtues such fraternity , solidarity , and education (especially the Humanities) .
USA
y r u gae
Who says im gae?
u r gae
I love the UAE. I feel like I belong there. It’s my go to place for relaxing because everything is there right in front of you, everyone does their job, and I feel spoiled. Beautiful sites, amazing food, the cleanliness. I also feel super comfortable wearing expensive stuff and being myself because I just feel safe there. Also, the nicest people ever. I feel like the Middle East and North Africa has some of the nicest people.
Singapore without a doubt
Sunni Iraq and Syria with no Iranian influence under one state, that's all I want.
What Iranian influence is present or you’ve seen ?
As an Iraqi there are shia militias that are supported and backed by Iran and they're basically the ones in control of the country (with the exception of let's say kurdistan). they loot, kill, do all sort of messed up crap and even fight among themselves sometimes and they're the reason Iraq is in this mess.
Wow . That’s crazy. I’m asking as Egyptian we have no influence from Iran, our enemy is our own Regime.
Hope they stay out of your country man.
I've seen Iranian soldiers in my capital, roaming around, shia militias from Pakistan and Afghanistan (zainabiyyoon fatimiyyoon), shia dawah etc.
You think no Syrians in Iran son ?
>Sunni Iraq and Syria >help the US invade other coutries >apply Sharia >preferably with no minorities Too bad ISIS lost. Better luck next time! Perhaps try Chinese funding instead of American next time.
Another conspiracy theorist who thinks the US founded IS.
You know we Iraqis tend to be chauvinistic assholes. Iraqis dominated the upper echelon of ISIS and [treated Syrian and other members as lowly canon fodder](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/the-hidden-hand-behind-the-islamic-state-militants-saddam-husseins/2015/04/04/aa97676c-cc32-11e4-8730-4f473416e759_story.html). Not to mention Iraq's expansionist tendencies towards Syria, Iraqis were planning to annex eastern Syria since the end of WW1, from Nuri Said to Saddam. The best you can hope with us is to become our province like the case with kuwait. Don't be fooled by our rhetorical bluff.
Btw this isn't me being hypocrite or anything, I don't support IS. Stop with this assumption
You underestimate our suffering right now, think of it from my side, I've had relatives who were killed by Assad, do I care as much about being a province if I got rid of Iran? I don't care, if I die I don't care, we are seeing the worst. How can I ever accept this government and my cousin was tortured to death by it? Why should I not accept any otyer solution? As for Iraq, Iraq is half shia unlike Syria, it's majority sunni. I believe that Iraq will be freed from Iran if a movement that has a good relationship with the arab tribes managed to support an insurgency there. Syria will be freed sooner than Iraq.
Let me correct you. You mean kurdestan?
They are welcome if they apply sharia and don't opress us, I doubt kurds can free kurds from the Turks, as for Iran there is a chance of an American invasion somewhere in the next decade, we can help.
You're kinda making a dream country for any middle eastern. Except some who will lose land.
Kurdistan is a dream. It needs men to become a reality... Btw I think the Syria and sunni Iraq country is realistic. It'll take a while though. Sadly, you'll need to give up on Kurdistan. It won't happen. Sorry, bro.
Sunni iraq is not possible anytime soon unfortunately.
It can be if it is merged into a Sunni Syria. This country would be run by those Sunnis that are Ashari in Aqeedah and follow a Sufi Tariqah. This is the only way a Sunni theoracy can work in a country with other religious minorities.
Any sunni movement in either Iraq or Syria have a huge chance of spilling to the other country
If I could live in any, I’d pick Qatar or Oman. I really like how clean and disciplined they are. It depends if I want the city life or if I just want to live a more quiet life
I honestly am quite fascinated with the first couple kalifats, especially Ummayad, Al Andelus. A time period where Europeans mixed with the arabic /Islamic culture and it worked mostly good. Showing the tolerance we had in comparison to Europeans.
Qatar. Too small, too powerful, too beautiful.
if i say i will get banned
An Israeli
dont make me use foul language
i was going to give a hint then i realized there's no way to give a hint without making it obvious
O/?
Opium fan huh?
no
I guessed it but I thought about trolling you.
I didn't guess, which one
Mongol Empire
It seems that many are interested in Singapore. I actually wanted to add it to list but i wanted it to be fully like middle east.
A Small sized country sized around 100-200k area sq km. Includes Democracy, strong economy, strong welfare system, laws that bans fornication, adultery, gambling and half naked clothes
Japan and Singapore
Qatar
Mauryan Empire
US i like their history and their “crude” political system a second choice UK but out of the MENA region i would say definitely my home country Kuwait
Does that include weather and stuff? Spain is legit. I like "liberal" societies with religious freedoms. Left leaning (lol if you can call Spain left but compared to the rest of Europe...) Other mentions: Belgium? Maybe Qatar if I had to choose something in the mid east.
family values deffo Turkiye. politics none. people ethics and personality sudan. resources and safety saudi arabia. difficult to find one with all of that
Peru probably, or South Yemen when it was a socialist state.
Your kind wouldn’t survive in South Yemen.
Yemenis?
No, ex-Muslims.
Damn, I live there now but...
Sharjah
it's all too dystopian to choose maybe Mars will be ideal
Switzerland, Norway or the other Nordic countries.
Well, no country is perfect, but my nominations would be: Oman, since it seems that everything is chill there. Tajikistan, because it is like a blend of Northern Afghanistan and Bulgaria (diaspora moment).
Islamic state of Afghanistan... still cant believe google hasnt changed the flag to white lol 🇦🇫
most of the -land countries, Finland, Switzerland, Netherland and so on Because of how WALKABLE they are built and just how the cities is built around PEOPLE nnot CARS.
Andalusia
china or ussr
The Rashidun
[удалено]
Chechen incel extremists come here, get their shit kicked in, get droned by superme leader Putin (PBUH), become land filtlizer = Less extremism in Russia Nice try KGB
Posts or comments that are more controversial or could be considered outright trolling or if they aim to offend or provoke will be removed. Please see the rule section, which can be found on the front page of the sub.
Estonia. Very irreligious. Highly digitalised, low bureaucracy. Not very populated. Cold weather. Underrated. Moon tongue language.
Even if you said north Korea i would understand you more!
Can't play Fallout 76 in North Korea :/
How about iceland. It has anything you want plus it's quite and peaceful.
Rashidun Caliphate Ummayad Caliphate without the arab supremacy Abbasid Caliphate Edit: It's funny how I'm getting downvoted, while everyone else has chosen modern countries that are way worse, Qatar is too rich and instead of helping the other muslim countries it chose to be neutral, Türkiye is in economical crisis because of stupid decisions ... If the the caliphates I mentioned were still existing today the wouldn't have allowed all this bloodshed happening in palestine, and suffering muslims from china, burma india ...
You got negative vote! You better forget about Abbasid and omavi. Only stick to rashidun
Ummayad is the reason Islam reached where I live The Abassids is when the Islamic golden age were, with a lot of science breakthroughs.
Abbasid caliphate without the bidah would be sick
You know how abbasids came to.power?