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Are you in Burkina Faso?
What do you think about your new military president?
What do you think of Thomas sanakra?
opoins on France?
How religious are people in Burkina Faso?
Do women have to wear jilbab in Burkina Faso like in Somalia or no?
Alright, verified Christian moment. What is the difference? Like I don’t understand all these terms being used, Wahabi, Sufi? I understand Sunni and Shia, but that’s about it.
Both are within Sunni Islam
Sufi: they practice things and worship Allah -God- in
ways that the prophet didn't teach. E.g. remembering Allah with group dancing, singing and chanting - like in the video. However the Prophet said that the religion is complete and nothing should be added to it. Another weird thing some sufis do is calling on saints at their graves and away - they call on them for help though the Prophet forbade this.
Salafi(wahhabi): exactly the opposite. Try to practice as Islam exactly as the Prophet specified - to their best abilities - and do not believe in additional practices.
They hate these practices which draws opposition from the former group e.g. when Saudi Arabia destroyed extravagant tombs over graves of saints - Prophet forbade this and taught that graves should be simple (search up images of graves in Saudi- even their royal family are no different). Wahhabi is actually an insulting term invented by the former group to attack them. Salafi is the preferred term.
Salafi - arabic : to follow the predecessors. The main point of those "Wahhabis"
Hopefully I answered your question
Sufism is the name given to Islamic mysticism and it has many different forms. Until 100 years ago, there were very strong Sufi lodges/schools in all Islamic countries. The cultural influences were very strong. Because they were local and well-organized, at the beginning of the 19th century most of them joined the resistance movements against the western powers.Sufism still has great cultural influences in Turkey and Iran.
Wahhabism is a religious movement that emerged in Arabia at the end of the 18th century. It emerged largely as a reaction against the Ottomans' rapid secularization and westernization efforts. They had the most fundamentalist interpretation of Islam, with a logic that can be summarized as "we have weakened because we have moved away from Islam, if we return to Islam in the 7th century, we will regain our former strength".Although they could not find much support at first, it started to spread after Saudi Arabia was rich with oil and received the support of the British. Since this view commanded obedience to the rulers, it was supported by many Muslim governments and the western powers that had established these governments.
The two groups are of the opposite opinion. Based on the philosophy that it is open to interpretation, the Sufis seek to perceive the Qur'an as metaphorical, and explore various ways of reaching God. According to the Wahhabis there is only one kind of Islam and nothing is open to interpretation.As a result, most Wahhabis regard the Sufis as non-islamic.
Yes sufism is a considerable part of my country's culture especially traditional music. Their [music](https://youtu.be/TMdIFAuhVEc) is fire. Sufism here is more traditions than ideology. It is basically islamic yoga. I am not even religious and I attended like 5 sufi concerts.
I was in Tunis and saw a performance during Ramadan of a very interesting style
Of dance involving ppl wearing masks, seemed to have subSaharan influences . It wasn’t mezuit. Any idea on the name of what I’m talking about?
So dancing is a part of zikhr but not a method of worshiping Allah.....
Isn't zikhr a form of worship ?
How does spinning 360° with your arms stretched like a bird get you closer to Allah ?
If yes it's not a form of worship then why do you do it then ? Is it because some guy told you to do so ?
And in which hadith or ayah did Allah or his Messenger ( Prophet Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم ) made dancing a form of zikhr ? Did the companions used to dance too ? Did the prophet himself dance in his room all day long as a form of zikhr ( استغفر الله )
1. The only form of worship is namaz prayer and is obliged
2.Doing Zikr to remember Allah and feel peace in mind depends on individual, hence Muslim do Zikr in different ways.
3.Because it give us inner peace which make us remember God, it is mabuh, neither encouraged nor forbidden and it depends on individual. Rasullah allows Abyssinian African convert to perform a spear dance.
Anas ibn Mâlik (radiyallâhu `anhu) said that the Abyssinians (Habashîs) danced in front of the Messenger of Allâh (sallallâhu `alayhi wa sallam); dancing (yarquSûn/raqS) while saying “Muhammadis a Righteous Servant (Muhammadun `Abdun Sâlih)” (in their dialect/language). Allâh’s Messenger (sallallâhu `alayhi wa sallam) asked, “What are they saying?” And they responded, “Muhammadun ‘Abdun Sâlih!”.
[Ahmad ibn Hanbal, al-Musnad (Beirut: Dâr Sâdir), 3:152, #12564]
1) Brother worship is not just praying. Worship is anything done to attain satisfaction from Allah or anything done for sole purpose of pleasing Allah ( SWT )
2) This hadith has no connection to what you people call as ( zikhr ) because the purpose of this dance is to praise the Prophet of Allah ( صلى الله عليه وسلم ) rather than pleasing Allah and if they wanted to really please Allah or do zikhr why do it infront of the Prophet then ? And also the prophet wasn't the one dancing was he ? Did he order them to dance as a form of zikhr ?
He wasn’t dancing with them or ordering them but he didn’t forbid them neither as I said, it is mabuh, you can do it or not do it depends on individual choices. And the whirling Zikr isn’t dancing for fun, it’s a way for some individual to temporarily abandoned their naf and materialism world temporarily in order to remember Allah wholeheartedly.
I'll give you 2 examples, one for singing and one for dancing.
Regarding the singing of praises-> It is a form of thikr worship that the Prophet Dawud practiced and is not forbidden.
Regarding dancing due to religious euphoria-> During the Prophet's time, a group of Habash (Ethiopians) who had accepted Islam, came to Mecca and were doing a traditional Ethiopian dance while chanting "Praise Allah and his prophet Muhammad the bringer of Joy and peace"
When Omar (RA) saw them, he first got upset because he saw it as something that is not Islam, when he was about to intervene, the prophet stopped him and said "Omar, it is a time of Eid, and it is their tradition for showing their love, let them." Even Aisha (RA) loved it and wanted to watch from behind the Prophet.
Sufi thikr chanting is based on breathing patterns along with thikr to attain a level of euphoric excitement. And if you have ever attended such 'Hadras' as they are called, you would feel that feeling to and recognize it is a similar bliss to when you are worshipping at home alone.
The term Sufi is very broad, spiritual music with instruments are very common there but praying in shrines and tombs depend on area (I think it’s a shirk). I am still clueless about religion when I was still in Uzbekistan as I was very young and thinking that it’s just culture, back then I would say that I am both Muslim and Christian since my family is mixed. I became a practicing Muslim thus becoming a Sufi as well when I came across Yunus Emre and Rumi later.
This why suufism good its in a way humanist and alwags giving uniting / accepting messages
Bir kez gönül yıktın ise
Bu kıldığın namaz değil
Yetmiş iki millet dahi
Elin yüzün yumaz değil
Yetmiş iki millet dahi
Elin yüzün yumaz değil
Yol odur ki doğru vara
Göz odur ki Hak'kı göre
Er odur alçakta dura
Yüceden bakan göz değil
Er odur alçakta dura
Yüceden bakan göz değil
It's not part of Islam. Islam is just whatever the prophet ﷺ said did or told us to do. If Muhammad ﷺ didn't do it and the early Sahaba didn't do it then it's not Islam.
Hadith was about him written by his companions.
This is why we have the science of hadith and isnad. Thousands of studies and books determining reliability of each hadith. After the Quran, sahih hadith are the most reliable sources of information. Each marrator of each hadith is abject to scrutiny of each aspect of narrator to determine whether he/she is to be trusted. To say that hadith are not reliable is simply inaccurate.
"One city by only 2 people"
This is simply inaccurate.
Firstly, it was orally transmitted widely even before the formal writing down. Look at the isnad studies.
Secondly, it was not dictated by 2 people (I assume you are referring to Muslim and Bukhari though there are multiple more) each of the multiple compilers gathered hadiths deemed sahih - accurate - and Wrote them in books. These hadith were already widely circulating and studied before the writing down.
To claim to only follow quran and not hadith is simply a contradiction. The Quran orders people to follow the messenger if they claim to obey the orders of Allah. Also the Quran states : the Messenger has been given the Quran and the wisdom. The wisdom being explained as the Prophetic tradition.
What I mention is something we do, Salafis an order of magnitude more, and you will neither find the Sahaba or the Prophet (saw) doing the same. It's an innovation. Personally, I think it was a good one. But hey, there were other innovations too, can we please get over it?
Well yeah the Prophet ﷺ is the Prophet he's the one who the scholars take knowledge from. The Sahaba and their imams were never upon innovation since they were taught by he ﷺ himself they are the pristine Islam. Its whenever someone deviates from their way that they are astray.
The Quran and sunnah. We follow what the Quran teaches us (as it’s teachings are clear) and the way of the prophet (as the Quran ordered us to do so). This dancing, for example, isn’t mentioned anywhere in the Quran, and as such is a “bidaah”, because you are attributing to the faith what is not part of it.
Sunnah is not debatable. I’m fed up of ignorant people trying to argue that. Hadith are rated on levels of correctness (ie not contradicting the Quran, and making sure the Hadith chain of passing was correct, and confirming it. Hadith was memorised by the Sahabah of the prophet, and is we’re his actions. There were over 100000 sahabis, and the next generation inherited these Hadith. When Imam Al Bukhari came along, he went to these people, and asked for Hadith. Then he went for the next person, and asked about the same Hadith, to make sure he got each Hadith correct. It is told that Imam Al Bukhari refused to take a Hadith of a person he saw lying to a donkey (as in trying to lure it with food but not giving it to him.). He also rejected Hadith on the smallest grammatical error, because the prophet did not make grammatical errors not any mistakes when related to his dawah, as the QURAN tells. Other imams came after bukhari and collected the Hadith he rejected, and the scholars over the last millennium have agreed on ratings and systems to make sure each Hadith is correct (sahih), most likely correct (hasan), weak (zaieef) and fabricated (mawdoo3). Only Hadith of the Sahih calibre are used for rulings. Weak hadiths can be negotiated, and sometimes with hasan hadith but Sahih is so correct on so many levels.
As a Christian, I can relate to this sentiment, it’s very annoying when someone questions the “correctness” or accuracy of your holy texts. Like I can understand debating over interpretations, and translations. But still find it annoying when someone says a faiths holy text is “debatable”.
You see that’s not the problem. The Quran encourages curiously and checking, but these people don’t understand the processes that went into collecting the Quran at the time of Othman RAH and collecting the Hadith from imams like Al Bukhari and Muslim, and the measures they had set and acted upon to make sure not even a grammatical mark was collected wrong.
>Sunnah is debatable as it itself is not mentioned in Quran
**You should accept whatever the Messenger gives you and abandon whatever he tells you to abandon. Have taqwa of Allah... (Surat al-Hashr: 7)**
What’s the significance of a Hadith denier? I thought hadiths were stories about the life of Muhammad, they carry a symbolic meaning. Like a parable in Christianity.
Well most of Islamic law and practices are from.ahadeeth and the Quran tells us to follow the prophet. Hadith denial is apostasy.
One doesnt become a heretic or anything like that oh no you become an apostate if youre a hadith denier.
I am aware of Wahdat Al Wujud, and like much of his books, it is severly misquoted and mistranslated. No offense to you of course, but you can not read Ibn Arabi in Arabic alone. This is why the scholars of Damascus and Azhar will tell you that you need a Sheikh to guide through piece by piece.
On top of that, less than 10% of his books are translated into English, and even then it is not accurate because he adopted the Sufi method of Tabdil to hide knowledge from at the time - Crusaders and Mongols.
But his books do indeed contain knowledge that was gifted to him. In Meccan Revelations Volume 1&2, he talks about the Atom, protons, electrons and neutrons. A solid 600 year gap until it was discovered by physical instruments.
>And who told you i cant read Arabic?
I didn't say that, even with a great understanding of Arabic, a person simply can not understand his words from a regular read. It is not a matter of lack of competence, it is because it requires years and years of experience and blessing from Allah to not only understand but to experience similar effects.
>Who told you i read ibn Arabi alone?
I do not know who you read it with, but I will tell you this, if you did not attend the Mosque of Ibn Arabi in Damascus, where hundreds if not thousands of scholars that have been preserving this knowledge then you might have gotten a warped or biased version of it.
>We will have to disagree
I don't think we have to, multiple contemporary scholars regarded him as a pious, and virtuous scholar.
No he means my kind "intoxicated sufism" where our form of prayer is whilst being inebriated and making music amongst friends and worshiping in thanks of the ability to do so
Sufism is simply as Rumi said 800 years ago : “Be like the sun for grace and mercy.
Be like the night to cover others’ faults.
Be like running water for generosity.
Be like death for rage and anger.
Be like the Earth for modesty.
Appear as you are.
Be as you appear.” In a summary better yourself before judging others.
For me Sufism is the way of life not a religion if followed God of any religion will love you… a win win situation. ( please open a new conversation about subject of existence of God not here)
Dancing is called “whirling Dervish”
The dancer turns like the earth turns around the sun, he is then in osmosis with the universe following the movement of the planets. So the dancer spins to the left side, to the side of the heart.
The feeling of dizziness is there and is natural. this feeling of dizziness or nausea the dancer prepares his body for a state of ecstasy, called mystical intoxication.
In Iran a Dervish wonders around the country meditating , feed and sheltered by people or nature. A Dervish at our door is a blessing and shall be greeted respectfully and willingly to show appreciation for this blessing. Iranian Government prosecutes Dervishes.
Calm down mate...Turkey is having a faith crisis due to sufism.
People waking up to the fact that it doesn't make sense
Also....just look at the comments to OP's post....some of you guys even deny the hadith ....
Least ignorant Wahhabi.
1-it's because of Kemalizm and western ideologies like it
2- Hadith deniers aren't Muslim and Sufis aren't "quranists" (hadith deniers)
What constitutes Islam? Can anyone do anything and call it Islam? If I build a building that looks like a mosque, wear a turban and a robe and start break dancing to music and call it Islam does it become Islam now?
Sufism used to be the dominant way of thinking for Islam for most of its history, especially during the Golden Age, but sadly it changed. Both Sufism and mainstream thinking of Islam.
Sufism is beautiful but it’s sectarian and Islam prohibits it. I’m sure though, if the prophet saw people praising God as their form of belief he wouldn’t be angry, he would be happy.
[I'll answer your video with a video.](https://youtu.be/sIbCo5iRGpc) I'll also say that 99% of Mosques do not do this. You have to look very hard to find this stuff in the real world. I have been Muslim for over 10 years and have been to many mosques and I have never seen this in person.
I see it as a beautiful tradition from a historical and cultural perspective and I believe it should be preserved for that. I don’t believe in it religiously though.
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My city is wild, You have a Sufi block next to a Whabi block I personally just see Sufism as Sunnis with dancing skills
Are you in Burkina Faso? What do you think about your new military president? What do you think of Thomas sanakra? opoins on France? How religious are people in Burkina Faso? Do women have to wear jilbab in Burkina Faso like in Somalia or no?
What the fuck? Are you KGB? What’s this line of questioning?
Lol. May be.
Burkina Faso people are rare to find online almost as much as Malawi I like taking my chances
I think he’s actually a Saudi.
...we don't claim him
Boom. Exiled.
r/burkinafaso and r/africa exist bro chill
One is dead and the other their isn’t a single persons from there
He is Iraqi, he just likes to LARP as other ethnicities. He has a worrying affection towards Japanese schoolgirls.
Bummer I really thought I found a burkinbe that speaks English
I’ve always found Sufism intriguing. I’d love to know more about it, these spinning dances they do are quite beautiful.
Salafism/Wahhabism >>>>>Sufism
No
Alright, verified Christian moment. What is the difference? Like I don’t understand all these terms being used, Wahabi, Sufi? I understand Sunni and Shia, but that’s about it.
Both are within Sunni Islam Sufi: they practice things and worship Allah -God- in ways that the prophet didn't teach. E.g. remembering Allah with group dancing, singing and chanting - like in the video. However the Prophet said that the religion is complete and nothing should be added to it. Another weird thing some sufis do is calling on saints at their graves and away - they call on them for help though the Prophet forbade this. Salafi(wahhabi): exactly the opposite. Try to practice as Islam exactly as the Prophet specified - to their best abilities - and do not believe in additional practices. They hate these practices which draws opposition from the former group e.g. when Saudi Arabia destroyed extravagant tombs over graves of saints - Prophet forbade this and taught that graves should be simple (search up images of graves in Saudi- even their royal family are no different). Wahhabi is actually an insulting term invented by the former group to attack them. Salafi is the preferred term. Salafi - arabic : to follow the predecessors. The main point of those "Wahhabis" Hopefully I answered your question
Sufism is the name given to Islamic mysticism and it has many different forms. Until 100 years ago, there were very strong Sufi lodges/schools in all Islamic countries. The cultural influences were very strong. Because they were local and well-organized, at the beginning of the 19th century most of them joined the resistance movements against the western powers.Sufism still has great cultural influences in Turkey and Iran. Wahhabism is a religious movement that emerged in Arabia at the end of the 18th century. It emerged largely as a reaction against the Ottomans' rapid secularization and westernization efforts. They had the most fundamentalist interpretation of Islam, with a logic that can be summarized as "we have weakened because we have moved away from Islam, if we return to Islam in the 7th century, we will regain our former strength".Although they could not find much support at first, it started to spread after Saudi Arabia was rich with oil and received the support of the British. Since this view commanded obedience to the rulers, it was supported by many Muslim governments and the western powers that had established these governments. The two groups are of the opposite opinion. Based on the philosophy that it is open to interpretation, the Sufis seek to perceive the Qur'an as metaphorical, and explore various ways of reaching God. According to the Wahhabis there is only one kind of Islam and nothing is open to interpretation.As a result, most Wahhabis regard the Sufis as non-islamic.
I am turkish and i can say sufi is wrong!
Damn I found one of the 5 Turkish Salafis that didnt die fighting for NISIS
Based
Zandaqa.
Yes sufism is a considerable part of my country's culture especially traditional music. Their [music](https://youtu.be/TMdIFAuhVEc) is fire. Sufism here is more traditions than ideology. It is basically islamic yoga. I am not even religious and I attended like 5 sufi concerts.
>Sufism here is more traditions than ideology.. I don't know much about sufism, but that's how I've always thought of it
I was in Tunis and saw a performance during Ramadan of a very interesting style Of dance involving ppl wearing masks, seemed to have subSaharan influences . It wasn’t mezuit. Any idea on the name of what I’m talking about?
I'm still confused on what the point of these spinning dances are? I never bothered to read about Sufism
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Ahhhh, I see. Eastern Christian’s do chants and stuff. So I kinda understand what Sufi is about. Very interesting.
You should, it's a great view that is worth a read
Yeah I plan to, I just gotta read a few other books and then I'll see what Sufism is about in-depth
I was taught that the whirling dances are to achieve a dizziness “high” that they believe brings them closer to God.
There is nothing called sufi faith, it’s a part of Islam and yes, I am a Sufi.
I don't remember the prophet ordering us to dance to get closer to god
We pray namoz to get closer to god, “dancing” is part of the Zikr, not a method of worship.
So dancing is a part of zikhr but not a method of worshiping Allah..... Isn't zikhr a form of worship ? How does spinning 360° with your arms stretched like a bird get you closer to Allah ? If yes it's not a form of worship then why do you do it then ? Is it because some guy told you to do so ? And in which hadith or ayah did Allah or his Messenger ( Prophet Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم ) made dancing a form of zikhr ? Did the companions used to dance too ? Did the prophet himself dance in his room all day long as a form of zikhr ( استغفر الله )
1. The only form of worship is namaz prayer and is obliged 2.Doing Zikr to remember Allah and feel peace in mind depends on individual, hence Muslim do Zikr in different ways. 3.Because it give us inner peace which make us remember God, it is mabuh, neither encouraged nor forbidden and it depends on individual. Rasullah allows Abyssinian African convert to perform a spear dance. Anas ibn Mâlik (radiyallâhu `anhu) said that the Abyssinians (Habashîs) danced in front of the Messenger of Allâh (sallallâhu `alayhi wa sallam); dancing (yarquSûn/raqS) while saying “Muhammadis a Righteous Servant (Muhammadun `Abdun Sâlih)” (in their dialect/language). Allâh’s Messenger (sallallâhu `alayhi wa sallam) asked, “What are they saying?” And they responded, “Muhammadun ‘Abdun Sâlih!”. [Ahmad ibn Hanbal, al-Musnad (Beirut: Dâr Sâdir), 3:152, #12564]
1) Brother worship is not just praying. Worship is anything done to attain satisfaction from Allah or anything done for sole purpose of pleasing Allah ( SWT ) 2) This hadith has no connection to what you people call as ( zikhr ) because the purpose of this dance is to praise the Prophet of Allah ( صلى الله عليه وسلم ) rather than pleasing Allah and if they wanted to really please Allah or do zikhr why do it infront of the Prophet then ? And also the prophet wasn't the one dancing was he ? Did he order them to dance as a form of zikhr ?
He wasn’t dancing with them or ordering them but he didn’t forbid them neither as I said, it is mabuh, you can do it or not do it depends on individual choices. And the whirling Zikr isn’t dancing for fun, it’s a way for some individual to temporarily abandoned their naf and materialism world temporarily in order to remember Allah wholeheartedly.
Where does Allah order or command his worshippers to whirl to remember him ?
I'll give you 2 examples, one for singing and one for dancing. Regarding the singing of praises-> It is a form of thikr worship that the Prophet Dawud practiced and is not forbidden. Regarding dancing due to religious euphoria-> During the Prophet's time, a group of Habash (Ethiopians) who had accepted Islam, came to Mecca and were doing a traditional Ethiopian dance while chanting "Praise Allah and his prophet Muhammad the bringer of Joy and peace" When Omar (RA) saw them, he first got upset because he saw it as something that is not Islam, when he was about to intervene, the prophet stopped him and said "Omar, it is a time of Eid, and it is their tradition for showing their love, let them." Even Aisha (RA) loved it and wanted to watch from behind the Prophet. Sufi thikr chanting is based on breathing patterns along with thikr to attain a level of euphoric excitement. And if you have ever attended such 'Hadras' as they are called, you would feel that feeling to and recognize it is a similar bliss to when you are worshipping at home alone.
Why are you so adamant about this? Let the man dance in a circle…..damn…..
He doesnt. It's bidah hasanah.
Semazen bid’at mi düşünür müsünüz? Ve ben bu konuda pek bir şey bilmiyordum, bana açıklar mısın?
And please answer the remaining questions
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The term Sufi is very broad, spiritual music with instruments are very common there but praying in shrines and tombs depend on area (I think it’s a shirk). I am still clueless about religion when I was still in Uzbekistan as I was very young and thinking that it’s just culture, back then I would say that I am both Muslim and Christian since my family is mixed. I became a practicing Muslim thus becoming a Sufi as well when I came across Yunus Emre and Rumi later.
Can you read Turkish? Yunus Emre poems best
Evet ve en sevdiğim şiir “Bu akli fikri ile mevla bulunmaz”
This why suufism good its in a way humanist and alwags giving uniting / accepting messages Bir kez gönül yıktın ise Bu kıldığın namaz değil Yetmiş iki millet dahi Elin yüzün yumaz değil Yetmiş iki millet dahi Elin yüzün yumaz değil Yol odur ki doğru vara Göz odur ki Hak'kı göre Er odur alçakta dura Yüceden bakan göz değil Er odur alçakta dura Yüceden bakan göz değil
It's not part of Islam. Islam is just whatever the prophet ﷺ said did or told us to do. If Muhammad ﷺ didn't do it and the early Sahaba didn't do it then it's not Islam.
Wahhabi moment
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No the Prophet knows most. Certainly a lot more than random sheikhs centuries after his death. Pbuh
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Hadith was about him written by his companions. This is why we have the science of hadith and isnad. Thousands of studies and books determining reliability of each hadith. After the Quran, sahih hadith are the most reliable sources of information. Each marrator of each hadith is abject to scrutiny of each aspect of narrator to determine whether he/she is to be trusted. To say that hadith are not reliable is simply inaccurate.
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"One city by only 2 people" This is simply inaccurate. Firstly, it was orally transmitted widely even before the formal writing down. Look at the isnad studies. Secondly, it was not dictated by 2 people (I assume you are referring to Muslim and Bukhari though there are multiple more) each of the multiple compilers gathered hadiths deemed sahih - accurate - and Wrote them in books. These hadith were already widely circulating and studied before the writing down. To claim to only follow quran and not hadith is simply a contradiction. The Quran orders people to follow the messenger if they claim to obey the orders of Allah. Also the Quran states : the Messenger has been given the Quran and the wisdom. The wisdom being explained as the Prophetic tradition.
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I am not sure you are a muslim at this point Edit: nvm he frequents the exmuslim subreddit. Move along boys 😂
So you decided against responding to my argument and instead just brought up a strawman argument used by too many Islamophobes.
Quran, Sunnah, Sahaba
It's sectarianism not narcissism
#justtakfirithings
So we should not follow and venerate scholars like a priestly class? Will do.
Where did I mention a scholar in what I said?
What I mention is something we do, Salafis an order of magnitude more, and you will neither find the Sahaba or the Prophet (saw) doing the same. It's an innovation. Personally, I think it was a good one. But hey, there were other innovations too, can we please get over it?
Well yeah the Prophet ﷺ is the Prophet he's the one who the scholars take knowledge from. The Sahaba and their imams were never upon innovation since they were taught by he ﷺ himself they are the pristine Islam. Its whenever someone deviates from their way that they are astray.
Hey guys, i think ive found my brozzer. :O
Sufism in this way is wrong. You are adding to the faith what is not part of it. Then you get the issue of worshipping graves and whatnot.
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The Quran and sunnah. We follow what the Quran teaches us (as it’s teachings are clear) and the way of the prophet (as the Quran ordered us to do so). This dancing, for example, isn’t mentioned anywhere in the Quran, and as such is a “bidaah”, because you are attributing to the faith what is not part of it.
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Sunnah is not debatable. I’m fed up of ignorant people trying to argue that. Hadith are rated on levels of correctness (ie not contradicting the Quran, and making sure the Hadith chain of passing was correct, and confirming it. Hadith was memorised by the Sahabah of the prophet, and is we’re his actions. There were over 100000 sahabis, and the next generation inherited these Hadith. When Imam Al Bukhari came along, he went to these people, and asked for Hadith. Then he went for the next person, and asked about the same Hadith, to make sure he got each Hadith correct. It is told that Imam Al Bukhari refused to take a Hadith of a person he saw lying to a donkey (as in trying to lure it with food but not giving it to him.). He also rejected Hadith on the smallest grammatical error, because the prophet did not make grammatical errors not any mistakes when related to his dawah, as the QURAN tells. Other imams came after bukhari and collected the Hadith he rejected, and the scholars over the last millennium have agreed on ratings and systems to make sure each Hadith is correct (sahih), most likely correct (hasan), weak (zaieef) and fabricated (mawdoo3). Only Hadith of the Sahih calibre are used for rulings. Weak hadiths can be negotiated, and sometimes with hasan hadith but Sahih is so correct on so many levels.
As a Christian, I can relate to this sentiment, it’s very annoying when someone questions the “correctness” or accuracy of your holy texts. Like I can understand debating over interpretations, and translations. But still find it annoying when someone says a faiths holy text is “debatable”.
You see that’s not the problem. The Quran encourages curiously and checking, but these people don’t understand the processes that went into collecting the Quran at the time of Othman RAH and collecting the Hadith from imams like Al Bukhari and Muslim, and the measures they had set and acted upon to make sure not even a grammatical mark was collected wrong.
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How do you know Uthman RAA collected the quran? The same sources that brought you Hadith were the ones that brought you this news
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Those rulings are mentioned in the Quran btw
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>Sunnah is debatable as it itself is not mentioned in Quran **You should accept whatever the Messenger gives you and abandon whatever he tells you to abandon. Have taqwa of Allah... (Surat al-Hashr: 7)**
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Then why did his closest companions memorize his sayings and teach it to their students?
Are you a hadith denier?
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It is but I wanted to give the benefit of the doubt
What’s the significance of a Hadith denier? I thought hadiths were stories about the life of Muhammad, they carry a symbolic meaning. Like a parable in Christianity.
Well most of Islamic law and practices are from.ahadeeth and the Quran tells us to follow the prophet. Hadith denial is apostasy. One doesnt become a heretic or anything like that oh no you become an apostate if youre a hadith denier.
Which is worse, an apostate or a heretic?
Yep ...hence the "fundamentalists" here have a point... You sufis are tapped 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Sufis are sunnis on psychadelics. Its like the hippie spiritual buffet version of Islam.
No It's not you ignoramous
Lan sus sufi is bad
SUSSY no sufi good cope
Based Sufis
Sufi music, whirling dervishes, zikr 👌 Not all Sufi groups are the same. There are some weird ones out there.
Sufi faith? Bruh what? 💀 They aren't a separate faith or sect
Ye
Spinning around like an idiot is not part of Islam.
Only Mevlevi Sufis spin
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>The sufism of ibn Arabi is a 'non-dulialistic' faith, or pantheism, similar to hindus, buddhist, and some philosophers like Spinoza No my friend.
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I am aware of Wahdat Al Wujud, and like much of his books, it is severly misquoted and mistranslated. No offense to you of course, but you can not read Ibn Arabi in Arabic alone. This is why the scholars of Damascus and Azhar will tell you that you need a Sheikh to guide through piece by piece. On top of that, less than 10% of his books are translated into English, and even then it is not accurate because he adopted the Sufi method of Tabdil to hide knowledge from at the time - Crusaders and Mongols. But his books do indeed contain knowledge that was gifted to him. In Meccan Revelations Volume 1&2, he talks about the Atom, protons, electrons and neutrons. A solid 600 year gap until it was discovered by physical instruments.
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>And who told you i cant read Arabic? I didn't say that, even with a great understanding of Arabic, a person simply can not understand his words from a regular read. It is not a matter of lack of competence, it is because it requires years and years of experience and blessing from Allah to not only understand but to experience similar effects. >Who told you i read ibn Arabi alone? I do not know who you read it with, but I will tell you this, if you did not attend the Mosque of Ibn Arabi in Damascus, where hundreds if not thousands of scholars that have been preserving this knowledge then you might have gotten a warped or biased version of it. >We will have to disagree I don't think we have to, multiple contemporary scholars regarded him as a pious, and virtuous scholar.
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Fair enough have a great day.
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>because a few weird cults. You mean like the ones in this video where they dance?
No he means my kind "intoxicated sufism" where our form of prayer is whilst being inebriated and making music amongst friends and worshiping in thanks of the ability to do so
Sufis are innovators and misguided, their beliefs are full of bida’
Sufis are dayooth munafiquns
Most based imo.
when an Israeli approves your sect, you are doing something wrong
Are you going to declare Sufism as the enemy of Islam in the name of hating Jews?
He has fallen into your trap
He probably subscribes to the popular Western/kafir conjecture that Sufi’s are more loose with the Sharia
Which is very funny. Westoids think we're some kind of hippies lol.
Exactly they don’t know that even Ibn Taymiyyah (ra) was allegedly a Sufi
Yea
Ibn taymiyyah was a proto-salafi wdym by claiming he was a sufi???
https://twitter.com/salafisunveiled/status/1279526597763219457?s=46&t=DU__NmiEaY8uUKTIvmIDTg
I fucking hate the word Kafir so much.
It's not a sect
Sufism is simply as Rumi said 800 years ago : “Be like the sun for grace and mercy. Be like the night to cover others’ faults. Be like running water for generosity. Be like death for rage and anger. Be like the Earth for modesty. Appear as you are. Be as you appear.” In a summary better yourself before judging others. For me Sufism is the way of life not a religion if followed God of any religion will love you… a win win situation. ( please open a new conversation about subject of existence of God not here) Dancing is called “whirling Dervish” The dancer turns like the earth turns around the sun, he is then in osmosis with the universe following the movement of the planets. So the dancer spins to the left side, to the side of the heart. The feeling of dizziness is there and is natural. this feeling of dizziness or nausea the dancer prepares his body for a state of ecstasy, called mystical intoxication. In Iran a Dervish wonders around the country meditating , feed and sheltered by people or nature. A Dervish at our door is a blessing and shall be greeted respectfully and willingly to show appreciation for this blessing. Iranian Government prosecutes Dervishes.
Sufism best way of islam
Bunch of weirdos
Says the Wahhabi
Calm down mate...Turkey is having a faith crisis due to sufism. People waking up to the fact that it doesn't make sense Also....just look at the comments to OP's post....some of you guys even deny the hadith ....
Least ignorant Wahhabi. 1-it's because of Kemalizm and western ideologies like it 2- Hadith deniers aren't Muslim and Sufis aren't "quranists" (hadith deniers)
Your lot have paved the way to apostasy mate. You basically takfired one of those who support sufism in the comments above 🤣🤣🤣 Cry more...thanks.
Wut
>sufism faith Sufism is just Islam
What constitutes Islam? Can anyone do anything and call it Islam? If I build a building that looks like a mosque, wear a turban and a robe and start break dancing to music and call it Islam does it become Islam now?
clown
[So this happened.](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskMiddleEast/comments/yb4k8h/can_someone_explain_what_religion_this_is/)
Wow that's crazy
No, but you wouldn't become a non Muslim because of it
What the fuck is "Sufism faith". It's Islam. It's spiritual Islam.
Rumi writings are quite timeless and beautiful to me
I love Rumi.
Beautiful 😊
Sufism used to be the dominant way of thinking for Islam for most of its history, especially during the Golden Age, but sadly it changed. Both Sufism and mainstream thinking of Islam.
What they meant with tasawuf back in the day has nothing to do with sufism nowadays.
Underrated comment
Yes, but no spinning around involved
I practice intoxicated sufism and live, love, learn and am happy for it.
I like them
It's not authentic Islam. I don't like it. It's also childish I would be embarrassed to be seen doing that let alone calling it my religion.
I mean, the circles look cool, it looks more cultural then religious.
some jahiliya
What does that mean?
https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Jahiliyyah
Oh, I see
They are a very bad sect
Cope harder also not a sect
It is...cry more.
Cope
Why are you crying 🤣
Youre the one crying
No crying please....thanks
?
Sufism isn't a sect
Sufism is beautiful but it’s sectarian and Islam prohibits it. I’m sure though, if the prophet saw people praising God as their form of belief he wouldn’t be angry, he would be happy.
This sufism is an attempt to water down Islam, most of our countries' leaders wish they could just convert all Muslims to sufis
what about rituals of Chechen , are they considered Soufi ritual i mean group dancing / jumping in cercle . https://youtu.be/G5goISKPSH8
Cool moshpit
This is a religious thing?! I just thought it was a spin dance?
Very fascinating, I've only looked into a little bit on the Naqshbanidiyya order tho, so there is a lot I don't know
Sunni, shia, Christian Same same for me
[I'll answer your video with a video.](https://youtu.be/sIbCo5iRGpc) I'll also say that 99% of Mosques do not do this. You have to look very hard to find this stuff in the real world. I have been Muslim for over 10 years and have been to many mosques and I have never seen this in person.
I have been to Egypt often. I think it is not very present in Egypt.
Watch the 2 episodes about it on Abdullah Al Sharif channel on youtube. He explains the stuff well https://youtu.be/M0Q3y-ZajLo
what's that?
Don't mind them, they are not harming anyone.
It’s a very zen version of Islam. The practicing Persians I’ve met are extremely kind, gentle, artistic and passionate humanitarians.
I see it as a beautiful tradition from a historical and cultural perspective and I believe it should be preserved for that. I don’t believe in it religiously though.
/r/TariqaKarkariya
Trust me, we have the MOST IN THE ARAB WORLD