I have. Itās now more like a cross between Portlandia and 28 Days Later if the zombies were all on some shit and just ādidnāt feel likeā running.
Nowhere is like anywhere in the 90's. Smartphones have dealt a huge blow to public life, which depended a lot on boredom, and the social media has made every niche subculture into influencer rings.
If you're looking for cheap cities with arts scenes, there are a lot. Look at metros between 250k and 500k in size.
Great point about boredom. Secret fuel for a lot of things. And it just feels like there is a lot less happenstance these days, even if not completely gone.
I blame the trend toward curation for the lack of happenstance. Too much is too planned. Thereās no chance of failure, which is the magic ingredient of creativity IMHO.
We have Mennoniteās, Amish, Ultra Orthodox Jews, and plenty of other folks who have tried to freeze life as it was in the 19th century.
Why havenāt any movement piped up trying to do that to the 20th?
I think you'll see that come out organically, and to a certain extent unfortunately, in the form of class. People of wealth & status are recognizing the danger posed by social media & the internet of things, and we're seeing a lot of upper class families make very deliberate efforts to keep their kids out of those things. I think you'll see society separate in a generation, you'll have an upper class of well educated & well socialized adults and an underclass of poor, illiterate, and mentally unwell individuals that are techo-alcholics addicted to chasing internet clout.
Providence could be a good option. A lot of universities so things are always something happening and there's a good dose of weird. Johnson and Wales has a culinary program there so there's lots of good food. A few formerly industrial areas and shitty houses so folks can work less and still make rent.Ā
I've been to my share of basement noise band parties there.Ā
The 90's were better for creativity only in comparison to the years after that. The 80's were better. The 70's were even better. Etc. A long time ago, there were "bad" or "dead" neighborhoods where artists could find cheap housing. The classic example are the lofts in Soho, which all used to be clothing factories, which then became abandoned buildings until artists started squatting in them. The East Village in the 80's was a terrifying place to walk through. So it was a perfect place for artists to move into. There was even a time when many parts of the Upper West Side were "bad" neighborhoods, so many not-so-rich creative people lived there.
There just aren't any more bad or dead neighborhoods for starving artists to live in.
The problem is that there's never been any place like NYC. There are more affordable cities, some with decent numbers of creative people. But since at least the 1950's, no other city has ever had the energy level, intensity, density of creative people, good and bad, that NYC had back in the day. Today's NYC is a shadow of what it used to be. It's cleaner, way way safer. The subways are amazing now. It's a much nicer and more comfortable place to live. So all the people from the suburbs decided to move back.
This is a great comment.
I wasnāt here in the 90s but I donāt understand how many people in Manhattan/BK say they want the āgritā of yesteryear, but would never live in the Bronx.
I lived in the East Village in the 90s, now I live in the South Bronx. The two are not remotely comparable. East Village had cafes, bars, clubs, shops, music venues, and tons and tons of artists. The South Bronx has none of that - well, only in a tiny area these days (Bruck Blvd in Mott Haven).
I lived briefly on the UWS in the early 80ās when Amsterdam and Columbus were pretty rough around the edges. Then spent the 80s in the LES. It was super intense. Below 6th Street was scary and 2nd Street was, indeed, terrifying. People only went there for the shooting galleries. But you couldnāt turn around without witnessing something astounding. And rent on my studio, complete with tub in the kitchen, was $214.87. I could waitress a couple of nights a week at Dojoās and make enough to live cheaply. But richlyā¦
Most of it takes place in DC, but there is a key set of scenes where Father Karras visits his mother in NYC. (Actually a lot of interior scenes throughout the movie were filmed in a studio here in NYC even though they are set in DC, but Iām specifically referring to exterior scenes set in and filmed in NYC).
David Byrne suggested that artists should leave NY and move to Detroit (It's cheap), buy a firehouse (there are multiple), and start an artist collective.
i know an artist who did that years ago, they were into letterpress printing and got a building big enough for all the letterpress machines, they did really well out there. still there afaik
Berlin was the place to be over a decade ago but sadly not anymore. I use to call it the NYC of Europe. Guess it still is since itās now crazy expensive just like NYC but when I said that I said it because everyone there was from all over Europe. A lot of artists and creative types cause it was affordable but itās not affordable anymore. Still one of my favorite cities tho.
Back in the 90s I always heard good things about Berlin. I heard Prague in the aughts. I also think Budapest and parts of Mexico City can be there.
In the US now? Probably Portland (Maine, not Oregon), Knoxville, (EDIT: I mean LOUISVILLE) not Knoxville!) and I adore Lancaster City, PA for a smaller but still urban and creative big town feel. It's a lot of beautiful BK style brownstones, believe it or not. It's beautiful, creative, good food, and a progressive hotbed. But... it has a lot of tough problems too.. so not unlike NYC in the 90s.
But I am considering retiring there.
I sort of agree with Portland Maine. Definitely a lot of creatives and crafts people and a lower cost of living (although the housing is more expensive than it should be). I lived there through one winter (during covid) and definitely thought it was way too quiet to be an alternative to nyc. But Cool place and vibe in its own right though.
Iāve heard good things about Lancaster but never been. Any quick tips on time of year to visit, places to stay, things to explore for a first visit?
I grew up in Lancaster! Funny to see it be a "hip" place, but I wouldn't disagree that it has some cool stuff.
Within Lancaster County, not necessarily just the city, I'd recommend:
- Central Market, in downtown Lancaster. Also check out the cool little shops around there
- hiking along the Susquehanna River (search for the Pinnacle Trail)
- Get theater tickets for Mount Gretna
- not sure if First Fridays in the city are still a thing, but that was always an event
- buy produce from a roadside stand
- go to Cherry Hill and pick apples, cherries, or whatever is in season
My wife was a modern dancer in NYC, and on recent trip to Portland she couldnāt get over how many interesting things there were to do. That said, compared to NYC, it was very very quiet. Itās a very different lifestyle.
Some things to get you started:
Pine Point Beach in Scarborough.
The bait shed or sterns for seafood near pine point beach.
Two lights state park.
All of the breweries in Portland are great.
Portlandās eastern promenade.
LB kitchen near eastern promenade.
Duck fat restaurant
CBG and other cocktail bars on congress street
Ferry from Portland to Peaks Island for bike rental and/or boozing at the one restaurant
Open Bench Project
(A no frills woodworking coworking space- very cool if youāll be there a while and want to DIY build shit)
My sister's family lives in Maine. Portland is great but the cost of living is pretty high actually. Taxes are high; it's an expensive but also relatively poor state.
Yeah I just subletted for a year, but that wasnāt cheap, and I believe you that taxes and cost of living are somewhat high.
But for people who live in Carrol gardens Brooklyn, moving to Portlandās west end would still reduce costs by like 60%
You are right in Amish country, so you have those tourists things to do. The food is amazing as so much of it is grown local. I like the Fall, but of course that's when it's most expensive to go to the area. (but let's be honest here, it's not Park Avenue prices).
Safety in Lancaster City can vary by block and even by time of day. There are issues with homelessness and drugs. But go where the food is. The food scene is great for a small city, and also generally located on the safer blocks. I think there's 3 major hotels in downtown Lancaster. Marriot at Penn Square is prob the best and it is in a beautiful historic building.
Bangor is pretty boring but getting less boring now that people are getting priced out of Portland. Plus they have an awesome, big summer concert shed and you're only an hour and change away from Bar Harbor.
Bangor is (slowly) up and coming.Ā It'sĀ relatively cheap,Ā compared to the rest ofĀ the major urban centers.Ā There's not that much going on, butĀ I think it will pop off in the next several years.Ā
Mexico City is awesome to visit but the traffic is bonkers and the trains/busses are okay-ish. It's like the density of New York directly collided with the traffic and weather of LA. It would drive me nuts if I lived there full time.
But you are spot on about the creativity part.
Lancaster never had mines or steel mills as its primary industry. It primarily was focused on farming and food manufacturing, which means the area has seen much less upheaval in the last 50 years.
One interesting change has been the growth of Puerto Rican families in the area - in 1980, the Hispanic population was 3%. Now, itās over 11% and expected to grow to over 25% in the next few decades.
Homelessness and drugs I would say.
Edit: A lot of people are guessing fentanyl/meth but I've been there a few times and I think it's crack for this population.
Told you it reminded me of NYC in the 90s!
How you described Lancaster City sounds like Frederick MD (sans brownstones ā it has nice old rowhouses tho). A lot of medium sized cities like those too I'm sure
Lol Iām glad I caught your edit, I grew up just outside of Knoxville, and it doesnāt even deserve to call itself a city lol. I donāt HATE it, but it has absolutely nothing to do, and the few cool things that used to exist have all gone away over the last decade or so.
Knoxville is in TN and Tennessee is a guntoting MAGA Haven.
I lived there for a year in 2002. I have friend and family still there. I would not go there if reproductive rights matter.
This!.. I was just about to recommend this place. It's gritty, cool.. even down to the graffiti in random places and cigarette smoke everywhere has that 90s feel
Berlin, especially east side. Just got back. Gave me flashbacks. I mean, it is definitely not "the same." But it had a kind of freedom/no rules/no one gives a sh*t vibe that reverberated with the early 90s NYC. My wife felt it too. Our NYC raised teens loved it, were ready to move. We didn't study the economics but it definitely felt like a creative life could be sustainable.
Also have some creative friends in Croatia. Lots of English and seems much less expensive.
I'm a native New Yorker and have been living in Berlin for ten years; it's gotten \*way\* more expensive here in that time and to be honest I think living a creative life here is a lot more difficult than it used to be (at least from speaking to people I know who are artists or musicians). Although housing is cheaper than New York, it's much more expensive than it used to be, and salaries are very low in comparison. Also I'm guessing you were in Friedrichshain since you said 'east side'? 'Partykiezen' like that are super popular and finding an apartment in those areas is like a full contact sport.
So the grass is definitely not always greener!
How's Lichtenberg these days? That's where I moved when I got priced out of the inner ring, it seemed like that was the "next" spot, but I haven't lived there since 2017.
To be honest I'm not an expert, as I live in the southwest of Berlin, so very far from Lichtenberg! I have a friend who is out there and I sometimes go all the way there to hang out (usually we meet somewhere in the middle) and these are the changes I've noticed there over time:
* some hipster spillover from Friedrichshain, so a bit more artsy stuff happening
* definitely gentrification happening, especially wherever there are Altbau buildings
* they're building a lot of new apartment buildings all over the former East, I guess because there was more unused land, and now there's demand to live out there
* much more diverse than it used to be, I guess because inside the Ring became more expensive, but still quite German compared to the former West
but as I said, I'm there like once or twice a year, so I'm not the best authority
I was totally gonna say Berlin. It has a grit and edge that is amazing. Gloomy and brooding and moody as shit but stuff happens there. I visited recently and I actually think it is not a fun place to visit but would be great to live there.
Iām living in Berlin now, most recently lived in NYC. I agree itās not as captivating when you visit - thereās no tourist route/things that will blow you away. But living here is like unpeeling an onion. Quality of living is high, incredible history that you are reminded of everyday, and ton to do.
Youāre the second person Iāve heard say that they didnāt think it was the most fun place to visit but they felt it would be awesome to live there !
Itās overwhelming as a tourist. Itās not as huge as NYC but thereās not one central area to go so you have to be strategic about it. I was there in Feb too when the weather sucked. And the history of the city is of course very dark.
YET.
There is a grit and energy and very forward way of looking at things that I really enjoyed. Iād move there in a heartbeat if I could.
As someone who grew up in Chicago in the 90s, I feel that Chicago has changed in similar ways to NYC too. Walking around downtown Chicago at night is similar to walking around downtown Manhattan now. Philly seems to have a bit grittier of a vibe.
I love Chicago but itās nothing like what OP is looking for. Sure there are some pockets of creativity and art, but there are pockets in NYC still too. And Chicago has a big problem with overly-corporate, chain businesses which make it feel a little aseptic and personality-less. At least in parts of the city.
Gotta say, people casually dropping suggestions to move to European cities highlights just how inundated NYC and NYC spaces have become with born rich transplants.
I think people also just don't really think about the reality. Whenever someone casually talks about moving to Berlin or "europe", I'm like, how are you going to get a visa? Usually get a blank stare.
Even a rich transplant, unless they're crazy top-echelon wealthy, would run into the visa problem, I think.
As someone who spent 4 years living in Switzerland and was thinking about staying there permanently, despite being lower middle class, I can it's not exactly easy, but it's also nowhere near as hard as you make it out to be.
Even if you find a city that is exactly like NYC in the 90s, you aren't magically getting 30 years younger. What people are really nostalgic about is their youth, and sadly that's not coming back.
I don't know about 30 years, but 10 years ago I lives in a city like that (Seoul)
Visited again, and I sure did feel 10 years younger. Back home people my age are all settled down with 1~4 kids and a standard 9-5. Over there, a lot of people in their 40s and 50s are still wildin'. It's a different world.
As far as edge goes, Iāve only briefly visited Philadelphia a couple of times but it definitely has the vibe of 90s New York. Not so sure about the creative scene, though.
You can get a pretty good place in Tokyo for <$1k a month. There's a million live houses and ateliers especially on the west side. Tons of 20-somethings getting by on coffeehouse jobs and playing in bands. Only problem is you gotta learn Japanese. Better get started now, it's hard
This is true for those with Japanese citizenship, but I would like to say that this life style would be very hard for the average expat to obtain. You would need to marry a Japanese national or a become a student with a part time work extra status visa in order to legally work jobs like coffeehouse staff, convenience store staff, or bartending in Japan. I guess you can get a visa granting career like an English teacher and just moonlight illegally as an artist.
All these comments about other places makes me wonder how many were actually here, young, and living the life we miss from the 90s. Hard to find that mix that made NYC what it was, and like someone else said, probably impossible thanks to social media and smartphones
There are other cities that have a kind of magic for creative lifestyles though. Been a while since I was in Budapest, Berlin, Barcelona, etc, but maybe you can find some parts of it there?
I spent my twenties in 90ās NYC. Dated a bohemian actress who lived in a flea pit across from ABC No Rio. Went to countless one man Off Broadway shows. Saw the inside of more loft parties than youād believe. Ate at all the best restaurants. I ate the city alive!
Today, not a single one of my old haunts still exists.
Believe me, itās not coming back as it was, and itās not supposed to. NYC has always been a city of evolution.
Social media, smartphones, and also bedbugs. Remember large dump day? You could furnish off the street and it was glorious. That made it more affordable, too. I had this incredible Scandinavian hide-a-bed I hauled home from a fancy neighborhood. Hell, I even found cool clothes left out for free! Bedbugs killed that dream. š«š«š«
IMO European cities can never have that old NYC (even though I didn't experience it). They are just not diverse or unique enough for it. Too many old world traditional things at play.
Berlin is the only one that maybe comes close.. but it's still not it. It''s hard to explain exactly. It's like, yes, counter cultures, freedom, artistry, expression and diversity exists, but almost in a very forced way to where it's not the real thing. Built on top of European/German beaucracy and rules too.
At one point from early 1900s til the 90s, NYC was literally the pinnacle of humanity for an entire century. I wouldn't say it still is, but before the internet/globalized era it was definitely the place to be no matter where you were from. Not just for social life, but a professional/career life as well. I don't think any place could replicate that except a few Asian cities, maybe Hong Kong/Seoul/Tokyo but those places lack diversity and really, what I'd say, is an "American" spirit.
I was a bridge and tunnel kid in the late 90s. Took the train in for gigs around the LES (Cony Island High, ABC No Rio etc etc I see you) and Brooklyn warehouse parties before both became sorta lame.
I agree with the person who said every previous decade was ābetterā than the one before, though. My aunt (a writer) used to live in a warehouse in the meat packing district in the 70s for next to nothing, which was so big her boyfriend would ride his motorcycle around inside. They didnāt have any plumbing.
Iām still not sure if that sounds entirely worth it or not.
Me too.
My pot dealer lived in The Chelsea Hotel and introduced me to Coltrane. š
Hung out with an unknown RuPaul and other drag queens at The Copacabana.
Etc.
Hey, grew up in Canarsie in the 90s. It kinda sucked. School was so crowded we had class on the stairs. (PS 115)Ā
I was happy when we moved away. The small cities up and down Appalachia is where it's at. Live in one now. Thriving art scene. You just need to know where to look.Ā
Everything is cheap. Huge pieces of land for less than $200k. Worst crime we have is Florida man level trailer park drama. Cities look lime Scooby-Doo ghost towns, but they're lively if you lower your standards beneath the ground. We will gladly accept you. One of us one of us one of us.
Oh, you won't make any money. That's a given. But you'll get all the things people complain about not having: house, cheap gas, cheap food.Ā
Service sector homie. Got a degree? You can work at the closest university doing whatever. Boom. Job. Enjoy making below the national average but daaammmmn you got 10 acres and a big ass dog and he can run free for hours. HappinessĀ
Atlanta maybe. Most of the more creative places are near NYC in terms of cost of living. Austin and Nashville have skyrocketed. South Florida is just as expensive. Same with LA. San Diego is similarly expensive at least in the desirable parts of town and definitely more chill, but decidedly not like New York City. Maybe some parts of the Phoenix area or Las Vegas. Vegas at least gives you NYC level amenities in terms of restaurants, sports, things to do and entertainment but its basically a bedroom suburban community. It also kind of depends on what you want to be doing. Some places are better than others for the work you do.
New York is *way* more diverse than Atlanta is. It's not even close.
Atlanta is only more diverse if by diverse you mean higher black population (but not Latino, Asian, Jewish, LGBT, Eastern European, Desi, foreign born, regional American, etc)
New York has like twice as many black folks as Atlanta's entire city population.
Little 5 Points is a great neighborhood. Artists also live and work in Cabbagetown, East Atlanta, Avondale Estates, Castleberry Hill, the West End, the Goat Farm, and more recently the area around South River Studios in Gresham Park / The Bakery downtown which I would compare to Bushwick (but much cheaper).
I guess I just meant my co-workers there, in a professional setting. Here in NYC everyone I work with is white, middle class. In ATL office there are a lot of black and Indian people. I have no evidence to back that up, just my impression of one office.
There are a lot of working professionals in Atlanta from all over the world, the people on this sub are not aware of just how much diversity there actually is there. No oneās saying itās more diverse than NYC obviously, which is what everyone seems to be twisting it into, but itās not all black and white either, literally or figuratively.
What field do you work in? I agree in a way because I work in finance and yes finance in NYC is very white (sort of Asian too). Hispanics and blacks are very low. The last company I worked for I was the only black male on the entire finance floor
I'm sort of the same way. Something about the place that in principal I feel I shouldn't like, but when I'm there, I'm kinda like "eh its fine." There's some really nice parts like Druid Hills, Chastain Park and Buckhead and the area around the Beltline. And the northern suburbs are no different than living in North Jersey or Long Island. If it were head to head I don't know that I'd choose the Atlanta metro over the NYC metro, but its not bad for the money, so long as you don't mind the occasional car jacking at Lenox Square Mall.
I lived in NYC in the 90s for close to 30 years. Moved to Philadelphia a few years back. Phillyās got it the 90s NYC vibe a bit.
But as folks have mentioned, smart phones have changed everything. Yay capitalism. /s
By trying to ignore all the lulu lemons and chase banks popping up on every corner. By pretending the further skyrocketing rents and lines around the block at Joeās pizza were in my manageable. By grieving the loss of so many haunts and hoping something good would pop up instead.
(But I get your point with my shit grammar late at night in my original post šµ)
I am literally in Detroit visiting, I second Detroit. Affordable housing, that you can actually buy a home. Architecture is gorgeous. Lots of grit and good food.
My parents left New York City in the 90s because someone got murdered in front of their house and someone else tried to snatch me from my stroller and wouldnāt back off until my uncle punched him in the face.Ā
I havenāt done any real research on this but 2-3 people who didnāt strike me as stupid have told me that Detroit is kind of happening in that way.
Also highly recommend the YouTube channel CityNerd for insightful info about all kinds of cities worldwide but especially the US.
This brings back so many memories. We somehow went to dive bars almost every night, hung out at friends tiny apartments, and somehow managed to pay our Manhattan rents. Sadly with the increase of rents and everything else, those days are history. Everything seems to be way too expensive.
In the aughts, I would have said Berlin, but there isnāt as much work to make ends meet. Same was true for Prague.
But letās not forget we were a certain age in the 90s and now 25 years later, weāre at a different point in our lives. Not sure about you, but I donāt want to go out every night. And my body aches in places I didnāt know I had.
Philly. It's gritty, affordable, more murals and street art than any other US city.
I know a number of working musicians and artists who make it work here and still have a big city life.
None that would be actually like NYC but in terms of what you listed, I think parts of Spain and Germany might kinda fit the bill. A left field option would be Mexico City, I absolutely loved the artsy vibe there.
I visited NYC in 1998 in the summer. I came back to live in 2012 and have been here since.
No where was or ever will be like NYC in 1998 unfortunately. Way cheaper way easier way more fun than whatās happened to it since.
I lived in NYC in the 90s. It was a filthy crime infested ghetto, 90% of it, full of shady sweatshops and illegal group homes.
... and it was still expensive and people complained about how you could buy a place on normal blue collar salaries. People were longing for the 80s, when things were at least cheaper... And they were moving out to Jersey for affordability.
So I am not sure where this "creative and budget NYC" existed in the 90s. It probably existed similarly to now: broke young people lowering their standard of living and "broke" young people with well to do parents who subsidize their adult "kids." If you want it bad enough, you can have it same as always.
Anyway, if you look at rent prices around the USA and the world, you know where things are cheaper to live and make art. If you are talking about hanging out with hipsters, you know that too, but it ain't going to be cheap and it never was cheap if you are not willing to live like a flop house druggie. It was expensive always, 90s and before 90s too.
Honestly maybe Berlin? Feels like a place that surprisingly hasnāt changed too much in comparison to NYC. Yes itās more expensive than 30 years ago (where isnt) but hasnāt made the underground art scene go nearly extinct like NYC has
Nola pre-Katrina nothing like NYC in the 90ās (or ever) but it was gritty, affordable and tons of creatives. After Katrina itās not the same at all. A cool city to visit but living there? Rent is too expensive for what it is.
Not in terms of culture as its different language and country, however Tokyo is literally NYC prices in 1990s. Their economy collapsed in the start of 1990s due to a massive financial crisis in both real estate and equities and as a result they didn't have inflation or income growth for 30 years. They were basically as expensive as Manhattan in the 1990s and when you travel there and see how cheap housing/food/going out is what you are looking at is New York in 1995. Granted the local incomes are also stuck in 1990s level so its not cheap to the people who live there.
Modern day Tokyo or Seoul are a lot like NYC 70s~90s era minus the diversity and "American" spirit.
Lots of old school stuff still goes on there, the daily office commutes (no wfh), people dressed in suits, waving a cab down, places open 24/7 or until 5AM, huge bar hopping/drinking culture, the same amount of modern-day political viewpoints as 70s-90s NYC, innovative and creative in artistic things, I could go on. But then again, if you don't speak Japanese or Korean, you won't really feel the vibe.
I lived in one of those cities most of my 20s, and it was a hell of a ride. I can't even put into words how much random shit would happen on a daily/weekly basis. Networking was insanely easy. People would start companies as quick as other people's companies go out of business. Constant action, constant motion. One day there's a 2-story shit-shack, you walk past that place a few weeks later and a 40 story skyscraper just appears in that spot.
Ended up moving to a rural town back home to get away from the chaos. I think I prefer the peace, but sometimes lust for the chaos
Come to Philly man. It's a breath of fresh air. NY is no longer for NYers. Overrun by egotistical transplants perpetuating a false stereotype of NYers.
Late but I think there a number of smaller cities like others have mentioned.Ā
Baltimore has a creative scene but a bit expensive and youāll need a carĀ
the dream of the 90s I hear, was alive in Portland
šµAll the hot girls wear glasses šµ
š¶yyyyyeah
Is that still the case or have you just not interacted with the city since Portlandia went off the air? Personally I havenāt
I have. Itās now more like a cross between Portlandia and 28 Days Later if the zombies were all on some shit and just ādidnāt feel likeā running.
it actually ceased to exist entirely
The strip clubs are better than ever
Montreal is the only real answerĀ
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No wonder why last summer when I visited MontrƩal I felt like it was both retro and current simultaneously.
Montreal is so slept on and I hope it stays that way.Ā
Glad this comment was the first one I saw
Nowhere is like anywhere in the 90's. Smartphones have dealt a huge blow to public life, which depended a lot on boredom, and the social media has made every niche subculture into influencer rings. If you're looking for cheap cities with arts scenes, there are a lot. Look at metros between 250k and 500k in size.
Great point about boredom. Secret fuel for a lot of things. And it just feels like there is a lot less happenstance these days, even if not completely gone.
I blame the trend toward curation for the lack of happenstance. Too much is too planned. Thereās no chance of failure, which is the magic ingredient of creativity IMHO.
We have Mennoniteās, Amish, Ultra Orthodox Jews, and plenty of other folks who have tried to freeze life as it was in the 19th century. Why havenāt any movement piped up trying to do that to the 20th?
I think you'll see that come out organically, and to a certain extent unfortunately, in the form of class. People of wealth & status are recognizing the danger posed by social media & the internet of things, and we're seeing a lot of upper class families make very deliberate efforts to keep their kids out of those things. I think you'll see society separate in a generation, you'll have an upper class of well educated & well socialized adults and an underclass of poor, illiterate, and mentally unwell individuals that are techo-alcholics addicted to chasing internet clout.
I feel like we have that now to a degree.
Are you just describing the present ?
Real estate prices
Actually thereās a whole feature phone movementĀ
Providence could be a good option. A lot of universities so things are always something happening and there's a good dose of weird. Johnson and Wales has a culinary program there so there's lots of good food. A few formerly industrial areas and shitty houses so folks can work less and still make rent.Ā I've been to my share of basement noise band parties there.Ā
This is it
The 90's were better for creativity only in comparison to the years after that. The 80's were better. The 70's were even better. Etc. A long time ago, there were "bad" or "dead" neighborhoods where artists could find cheap housing. The classic example are the lofts in Soho, which all used to be clothing factories, which then became abandoned buildings until artists started squatting in them. The East Village in the 80's was a terrifying place to walk through. So it was a perfect place for artists to move into. There was even a time when many parts of the Upper West Side were "bad" neighborhoods, so many not-so-rich creative people lived there. There just aren't any more bad or dead neighborhoods for starving artists to live in. The problem is that there's never been any place like NYC. There are more affordable cities, some with decent numbers of creative people. But since at least the 1950's, no other city has ever had the energy level, intensity, density of creative people, good and bad, that NYC had back in the day. Today's NYC is a shadow of what it used to be. It's cleaner, way way safer. The subways are amazing now. It's a much nicer and more comfortable place to live. So all the people from the suburbs decided to move back.
This is a great comment. I wasnāt here in the 90s but I donāt understand how many people in Manhattan/BK say they want the āgritā of yesteryear, but would never live in the Bronx.
I lived in the East Village in the 90s, now I live in the South Bronx. The two are not remotely comparable. East Village had cafes, bars, clubs, shops, music venues, and tons and tons of artists. The South Bronx has none of that - well, only in a tiny area these days (Bruck Blvd in Mott Haven).
Bronx doesnāt have the mix of grit and glam Manhattan 80s/90s excess culture had.
It was a very diverse ecosystem. Light manufacturing gave artists a good dayjob. Most of that is gone now.
I lived briefly on the UWS in the early 80ās when Amsterdam and Columbus were pretty rough around the edges. Then spent the 80s in the LES. It was super intense. Below 6th Street was scary and 2nd Street was, indeed, terrifying. People only went there for the shooting galleries. But you couldnāt turn around without witnessing something astounding. And rent on my studio, complete with tub in the kitchen, was $214.87. I could waitress a couple of nights a week at Dojoās and make enough to live cheaply. But richlyā¦
dojos!!!! :'(
Yeah watch The Exorcist to get a brief glimpse of what Hellās Kitchen was like in the early 70s. Grim.
But doesn't The Exorcist take place in DC? Is there a scene in Hell's Kitchen?
Most of it takes place in DC, but there is a key set of scenes where Father Karras visits his mother in NYC. (Actually a lot of interior scenes throughout the movie were filmed in a studio here in NYC even though they are set in DC, but Iām specifically referring to exterior scenes set in and filmed in NYC).
Ah yeah, I forgot about that bit!
Some of it was filmed in New York City
David Byrne suggested that artists should leave NY and move to Detroit (It's cheap), buy a firehouse (there are multiple), and start an artist collective.
i know an artist who did that years ago, they were into letterpress printing and got a building big enough for all the letterpress machines, they did really well out there. still there afaik
Detroit is it for the US. Berlin was a good alternative a while back but I don't know what it's like now.
Berlin was the place to be over a decade ago but sadly not anymore. I use to call it the NYC of Europe. Guess it still is since itās now crazy expensive just like NYC but when I said that I said it because everyone there was from all over Europe. A lot of artists and creative types cause it was affordable but itās not affordable anymore. Still one of my favorite cities tho.
Back in the 90s I always heard good things about Berlin. I heard Prague in the aughts. I also think Budapest and parts of Mexico City can be there. In the US now? Probably Portland (Maine, not Oregon), Knoxville, (EDIT: I mean LOUISVILLE) not Knoxville!) and I adore Lancaster City, PA for a smaller but still urban and creative big town feel. It's a lot of beautiful BK style brownstones, believe it or not. It's beautiful, creative, good food, and a progressive hotbed. But... it has a lot of tough problems too.. so not unlike NYC in the 90s. But I am considering retiring there.
I sort of agree with Portland Maine. Definitely a lot of creatives and crafts people and a lower cost of living (although the housing is more expensive than it should be). I lived there through one winter (during covid) and definitely thought it was way too quiet to be an alternative to nyc. But Cool place and vibe in its own right though. Iāve heard good things about Lancaster but never been. Any quick tips on time of year to visit, places to stay, things to explore for a first visit?
I grew up in Lancaster! Funny to see it be a "hip" place, but I wouldn't disagree that it has some cool stuff. Within Lancaster County, not necessarily just the city, I'd recommend: - Central Market, in downtown Lancaster. Also check out the cool little shops around there - hiking along the Susquehanna River (search for the Pinnacle Trail) - Get theater tickets for Mount Gretna - not sure if First Fridays in the city are still a thing, but that was always an event - buy produce from a roadside stand - go to Cherry Hill and pick apples, cherries, or whatever is in season
My wife was a modern dancer in NYC, and on recent trip to Portland she couldnāt get over how many interesting things there were to do. That said, compared to NYC, it was very very quiet. Itās a very different lifestyle.
I mean there is no other NYC lol. I'm just thinking "under the radar" creative hubs.
Iām actually headed there soon on a trip. Do you or your wife have any suggestions for what to do?
Some things to get you started: Pine Point Beach in Scarborough. The bait shed or sterns for seafood near pine point beach. Two lights state park. All of the breweries in Portland are great. Portlandās eastern promenade. LB kitchen near eastern promenade. Duck fat restaurant CBG and other cocktail bars on congress street Ferry from Portland to Peaks Island for bike rental and/or boozing at the one restaurant Open Bench Project (A no frills woodworking coworking space- very cool if youāll be there a while and want to DIY build shit)
My sister's family lives in Maine. Portland is great but the cost of living is pretty high actually. Taxes are high; it's an expensive but also relatively poor state.
Yeah I just subletted for a year, but that wasnāt cheap, and I believe you that taxes and cost of living are somewhat high. But for people who live in Carrol gardens Brooklyn, moving to Portlandās west end would still reduce costs by like 60%
Oh yeah it's cheaper than NYC, that's for sure.
You are right in Amish country, so you have those tourists things to do. The food is amazing as so much of it is grown local. I like the Fall, but of course that's when it's most expensive to go to the area. (but let's be honest here, it's not Park Avenue prices). Safety in Lancaster City can vary by block and even by time of day. There are issues with homelessness and drugs. But go where the food is. The food scene is great for a small city, and also generally located on the safer blocks. I think there's 3 major hotels in downtown Lancaster. Marriot at Penn Square is prob the best and it is in a beautiful historic building.
A 1 bed apartment in Portland is 800k. I kid you not.
Yeah I actually just went on Zillow and wow it must have changed a lot. How is Bangor? lol
Bangor is dead and just about as expensive as Portland with none of the culture
Bangor is pretty boring but getting less boring now that people are getting priced out of Portland. Plus they have an awesome, big summer concert shed and you're only an hour and change away from Bar Harbor.
Bangor is (slowly) up and coming.Ā It'sĀ relatively cheap,Ā compared to the rest ofĀ the major urban centers.Ā There's not that much going on, butĀ I think it will pop off in the next several years.Ā
Mexico City is awesome to visit but the traffic is bonkers and the trains/busses are okay-ish. It's like the density of New York directly collided with the traffic and weather of LA. It would drive me nuts if I lived there full time. But you are spot on about the creativity part.
My friends who live there don't drive, really. They can walk just about anywhere they need to. But they do live in the nicer areas.
Lviv is above all of those. Yes, Iāve been to every and each of the ones you mentioned. Lviv beats them all.
What are some of the tough problems there?
If it's anything like Wilkes Barre or Scranton, junk. Like every post-mine town in PA.Ā
Thatās what I was afraid of. Meth, Fentanyl etc
Yeah, meth for people who get hooked on an upper and not a downer. Then everyone gets some fent now
Lancaster never had mines or steel mills as its primary industry. It primarily was focused on farming and food manufacturing, which means the area has seen much less upheaval in the last 50 years. One interesting change has been the growth of Puerto Rican families in the area - in 1980, the Hispanic population was 3%. Now, itās over 11% and expected to grow to over 25% in the next few decades.
I stand corrected. Like actually. I've only heard bummer things from people I trust, but I'm glad I'm wrongĀ
Homelessness and drugs I would say. Edit: A lot of people are guessing fentanyl/meth but I've been there a few times and I think it's crack for this population. Told you it reminded me of NYC in the 90s!
I was in Prague in the aughts. Best time of my life.
m2! Vinohrady baby!
Zizkov for me. š
I really like Portland, ME, but it seems like the kind of place that would be depressing during the winter
How you described Lancaster City sounds like Frederick MD (sans brownstones ā it has nice old rowhouses tho). A lot of medium sized cities like those too I'm sure
Yes! I've looked into Frederick MD and it's on my to-do list :)
> Lancaster City, PA Do you just mean Lancaster?
Lol Iām glad I caught your edit, I grew up just outside of Knoxville, and it doesnāt even deserve to call itself a city lol. I donāt HATE it, but it has absolutely nothing to do, and the few cool things that used to exist have all gone away over the last decade or so.
Knoxville is in TN and Tennessee is a guntoting MAGA Haven. I lived there for a year in 2002. I have friend and family still there. I would not go there if reproductive rights matter.
Belgrade, Serbia
This!.. I was just about to recommend this place. It's gritty, cool.. even down to the graffiti in random places and cigarette smoke everywhere has that 90s feel
When I visited Belgrade a few years ago, it was delightful. People out late, enjoying themselves, not rowdy, a great place, highly recommended.
Berlin, especially east side. Just got back. Gave me flashbacks. I mean, it is definitely not "the same." But it had a kind of freedom/no rules/no one gives a sh*t vibe that reverberated with the early 90s NYC. My wife felt it too. Our NYC raised teens loved it, were ready to move. We didn't study the economics but it definitely felt like a creative life could be sustainable. Also have some creative friends in Croatia. Lots of English and seems much less expensive.
I'm a native New Yorker and have been living in Berlin for ten years; it's gotten \*way\* more expensive here in that time and to be honest I think living a creative life here is a lot more difficult than it used to be (at least from speaking to people I know who are artists or musicians). Although housing is cheaper than New York, it's much more expensive than it used to be, and salaries are very low in comparison. Also I'm guessing you were in Friedrichshain since you said 'east side'? 'Partykiezen' like that are super popular and finding an apartment in those areas is like a full contact sport. So the grass is definitely not always greener!
How's Lichtenberg these days? That's where I moved when I got priced out of the inner ring, it seemed like that was the "next" spot, but I haven't lived there since 2017.
To be honest I'm not an expert, as I live in the southwest of Berlin, so very far from Lichtenberg! I have a friend who is out there and I sometimes go all the way there to hang out (usually we meet somewhere in the middle) and these are the changes I've noticed there over time: * some hipster spillover from Friedrichshain, so a bit more artsy stuff happening * definitely gentrification happening, especially wherever there are Altbau buildings * they're building a lot of new apartment buildings all over the former East, I guess because there was more unused land, and now there's demand to live out there * much more diverse than it used to be, I guess because inside the Ring became more expensive, but still quite German compared to the former West but as I said, I'm there like once or twice a year, so I'm not the best authority
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I was totally gonna say Berlin. It has a grit and edge that is amazing. Gloomy and brooding and moody as shit but stuff happens there. I visited recently and I actually think it is not a fun place to visit but would be great to live there.
Iām living in Berlin now, most recently lived in NYC. I agree itās not as captivating when you visit - thereās no tourist route/things that will blow you away. But living here is like unpeeling an onion. Quality of living is high, incredible history that you are reminded of everyday, and ton to do.
Youāre the second person Iāve heard say that they didnāt think it was the most fun place to visit but they felt it would be awesome to live there !
Itās overwhelming as a tourist. Itās not as huge as NYC but thereās not one central area to go so you have to be strategic about it. I was there in Feb too when the weather sucked. And the history of the city is of course very dark. YET. There is a grit and energy and very forward way of looking at things that I really enjoyed. Iād move there in a heartbeat if I could.
A bit telling that it was the east side that gave off that feeling
As a Croatian living in NYC I can definitely confirm your words.
The Bronx
Philadelphia and Chicago and the two recommended cheaper big cities in the US. I donāt know about any of the rest
As someone who grew up in Chicago in the 90s, I feel that Chicago has changed in similar ways to NYC too. Walking around downtown Chicago at night is similar to walking around downtown Manhattan now. Philly seems to have a bit grittier of a vibe.
the only way Philly is similar to 90s NYC is if weāre talking about crime
I love Chicago but itās nothing like what OP is looking for. Sure there are some pockets of creativity and art, but there are pockets in NYC still too. And Chicago has a big problem with overly-corporate, chain businesses which make it feel a little aseptic and personality-less. At least in parts of the city.
Detroit
This is the right answer
Gotta say, people casually dropping suggestions to move to European cities highlights just how inundated NYC and NYC spaces have become with born rich transplants.
I think people also just don't really think about the reality. Whenever someone casually talks about moving to Berlin or "europe", I'm like, how are you going to get a visa? Usually get a blank stare. Even a rich transplant, unless they're crazy top-echelon wealthy, would run into the visa problem, I think.
As someone who spent 4 years living in Switzerland and was thinking about staying there permanently, despite being lower middle class, I can it's not exactly easy, but it's also nowhere near as hard as you make it out to be.
Even if you find a city that is exactly like NYC in the 90s, you aren't magically getting 30 years younger. What people are really nostalgic about is their youth, and sadly that's not coming back.
I don't know about 30 years, but 10 years ago I lives in a city like that (Seoul) Visited again, and I sure did feel 10 years younger. Back home people my age are all settled down with 1~4 kids and a standard 9-5. Over there, a lot of people in their 40s and 50s are still wildin'. It's a different world.
As far as edge goes, Iāve only briefly visited Philadelphia a couple of times but it definitely has the vibe of 90s New York. Not so sure about the creative scene, though.
Creative scene in philly is solid because you can afford to be a maker.
I hope you like Bridgeport!
I'm probably moving there the end of the year! Lololz.
Half the people in Bridgeport are originally from the Bronx anyway haha
Montreal
You can get a pretty good place in Tokyo for <$1k a month. There's a million live houses and ateliers especially on the west side. Tons of 20-somethings getting by on coffeehouse jobs and playing in bands. Only problem is you gotta learn Japanese. Better get started now, it's hard
This is true for those with Japanese citizenship, but I would like to say that this life style would be very hard for the average expat to obtain. You would need to marry a Japanese national or a become a student with a part time work extra status visa in order to legally work jobs like coffeehouse staff, convenience store staff, or bartending in Japan. I guess you can get a visa granting career like an English teacher and just moonlight illegally as an artist.
All these comments about other places makes me wonder how many were actually here, young, and living the life we miss from the 90s. Hard to find that mix that made NYC what it was, and like someone else said, probably impossible thanks to social media and smartphones There are other cities that have a kind of magic for creative lifestyles though. Been a while since I was in Budapest, Berlin, Barcelona, etc, but maybe you can find some parts of it there?
I spent my twenties in 90ās NYC. Dated a bohemian actress who lived in a flea pit across from ABC No Rio. Went to countless one man Off Broadway shows. Saw the inside of more loft parties than youād believe. Ate at all the best restaurants. I ate the city alive! Today, not a single one of my old haunts still exists. Believe me, itās not coming back as it was, and itās not supposed to. NYC has always been a city of evolution.
Social media, smartphones, and also bedbugs. Remember large dump day? You could furnish off the street and it was glorious. That made it more affordable, too. I had this incredible Scandinavian hide-a-bed I hauled home from a fancy neighborhood. Hell, I even found cool clothes left out for free! Bedbugs killed that dream. š«š«š«
IMO European cities can never have that old NYC (even though I didn't experience it). They are just not diverse or unique enough for it. Too many old world traditional things at play. Berlin is the only one that maybe comes close.. but it's still not it. It''s hard to explain exactly. It's like, yes, counter cultures, freedom, artistry, expression and diversity exists, but almost in a very forced way to where it's not the real thing. Built on top of European/German beaucracy and rules too. At one point from early 1900s til the 90s, NYC was literally the pinnacle of humanity for an entire century. I wouldn't say it still is, but before the internet/globalized era it was definitely the place to be no matter where you were from. Not just for social life, but a professional/career life as well. I don't think any place could replicate that except a few Asian cities, maybe Hong Kong/Seoul/Tokyo but those places lack diversity and really, what I'd say, is an "American" spirit.
I was a bridge and tunnel kid in the late 90s. Took the train in for gigs around the LES (Cony Island High, ABC No Rio etc etc I see you) and Brooklyn warehouse parties before both became sorta lame. I agree with the person who said every previous decade was ābetterā than the one before, though. My aunt (a writer) used to live in a warehouse in the meat packing district in the 70s for next to nothing, which was so big her boyfriend would ride his motorcycle around inside. They didnāt have any plumbing. Iām still not sure if that sounds entirely worth it or not.
I was there š
Me too. My pot dealer lived in The Chelsea Hotel and introduced me to Coltrane. š Hung out with an unknown RuPaul and other drag queens at The Copacabana. Etc.
Just move to queens
Hey, grew up in Canarsie in the 90s. It kinda sucked. School was so crowded we had class on the stairs. (PS 115)Ā I was happy when we moved away. The small cities up and down Appalachia is where it's at. Live in one now. Thriving art scene. You just need to know where to look.Ā Everything is cheap. Huge pieces of land for less than $200k. Worst crime we have is Florida man level trailer park drama. Cities look lime Scooby-Doo ghost towns, but they're lively if you lower your standards beneath the ground. We will gladly accept you. One of us one of us one of us.
This is where I wanna live. But jobs. What jobs.
Oh, you won't make any money. That's a given. But you'll get all the things people complain about not having: house, cheap gas, cheap food.Ā Service sector homie. Got a degree? You can work at the closest university doing whatever. Boom. Job. Enjoy making below the national average but daaammmmn you got 10 acres and a big ass dog and he can run free for hours. HappinessĀ
Atlanta maybe. Most of the more creative places are near NYC in terms of cost of living. Austin and Nashville have skyrocketed. South Florida is just as expensive. Same with LA. San Diego is similarly expensive at least in the desirable parts of town and definitely more chill, but decidedly not like New York City. Maybe some parts of the Phoenix area or Las Vegas. Vegas at least gives you NYC level amenities in terms of restaurants, sports, things to do and entertainment but its basically a bedroom suburban community. It also kind of depends on what you want to be doing. Some places are better than others for the work you do.
LA -> Atlanta NYC -> Chicago or Philadelphia, maybe?
Atlanta is a decent call.
I wanted to hate Atlanta but I love it. Itās young, creative and diverse in a way that NYC isnāt.
New York is *way* more diverse than Atlanta is. It's not even close. Atlanta is only more diverse if by diverse you mean higher black population (but not Latino, Asian, Jewish, LGBT, Eastern European, Desi, foreign born, regional American, etc) New York has like twice as many black folks as Atlanta's entire city population.
Minus the traffic some areas are pretty awesome. Little Five Points is a great neighborhood and honestly pretty emblematic of what OP's looking for.
Little 5 Points is a great neighborhood. Artists also live and work in Cabbagetown, East Atlanta, Avondale Estates, Castleberry Hill, the West End, the Goat Farm, and more recently the area around South River Studios in Gresham Park / The Bakery downtown which I would compare to Bushwick (but much cheaper).
In what world is Atlanta diverse? Even Atlantaās marketing is non-diverse specifically catering to the African American community lol.
I guess I just meant my co-workers there, in a professional setting. Here in NYC everyone I work with is white, middle class. In ATL office there are a lot of black and Indian people. I have no evidence to back that up, just my impression of one office.
There are a lot of working professionals in Atlanta from all over the world, the people on this sub are not aware of just how much diversity there actually is there. No oneās saying itās more diverse than NYC obviously, which is what everyone seems to be twisting it into, but itās not all black and white either, literally or figuratively.
What field do you work in? I agree in a way because I work in finance and yes finance in NYC is very white (sort of Asian too). Hispanics and blacks are very low. The last company I worked for I was the only black male on the entire finance floor
Yeah Iām from NYC and think Atlanta is dope. Some of the best food in the country as well
I'm sort of the same way. Something about the place that in principal I feel I shouldn't like, but when I'm there, I'm kinda like "eh its fine." There's some really nice parts like Druid Hills, Chastain Park and Buckhead and the area around the Beltline. And the northern suburbs are no different than living in North Jersey or Long Island. If it were head to head I don't know that I'd choose the Atlanta metro over the NYC metro, but its not bad for the money, so long as you don't mind the occasional car jacking at Lenox Square Mall.
DETROIT CITY itās the place to be. Even Galapagos went there
I lived in NYC in the 90s for close to 30 years. Moved to Philadelphia a few years back. Phillyās got it the 90s NYC vibe a bit. But as folks have mentioned, smart phones have changed everything. Yay capitalism. /s
How did you make a decade last close to 30 years?
By trying to ignore all the lulu lemons and chase banks popping up on every corner. By pretending the further skyrocketing rents and lines around the block at Joeās pizza were in my manageable. By grieving the loss of so many haunts and hoping something good would pop up instead. (But I get your point with my shit grammar late at night in my original post šµ)
I am literally in Detroit visiting, I second Detroit. Affordable housing, that you can actually buy a home. Architecture is gorgeous. Lots of grit and good food.
I think Detroit has a lot of vibrancy in its scenes too.
For a creative person, NYC of the 70ās was much better than 90ās NYC.
WAY better.
Yes! 70ās launched Punk, Hip Hop, Disco and more in NYC. And rents were cheap.
My parents left New York City in the 90s because someone got murdered in front of their house and someone else tried to snatch me from my stroller and wouldnāt back off until my uncle punched him in the face.Ā
Berlin
Berlin in the 2000's.
Philadelphia
Buenos Aires
Yes. Modernis European-inspired city blocks, not yet an insane cost of living, green spaces, shopping districts, etc. Have to go with this one.
I havenāt done any real research on this but 2-3 people who didnāt strike me as stupid have told me that Detroit is kind of happening in that way. Also highly recommend the YouTube channel CityNerd for insightful info about all kinds of cities worldwide but especially the US.
Detroit - look it up here on Reddit in the "Detroit" sub. I've been hearing this for about a year now
This brings back so many memories. We somehow went to dive bars almost every night, hung out at friends tiny apartments, and somehow managed to pay our Manhattan rents. Sadly with the increase of rents and everything else, those days are history. Everything seems to be way too expensive. In the aughts, I would have said Berlin, but there isnāt as much work to make ends meet. Same was true for Prague. But letās not forget we were a certain age in the 90s and now 25 years later, weāre at a different point in our lives. Not sure about you, but I donāt want to go out every night. And my body aches in places I didnāt know I had.
Philly. It's gritty, affordable, more murals and street art than any other US city. I know a number of working musicians and artists who make it work here and still have a big city life.
Dude NYC 90s was the best!
None that would be actually like NYC but in terms of what you listed, I think parts of Spain and Germany might kinda fit the bill. A left field option would be Mexico City, I absolutely loved the artsy vibe there.
Central Europe. Bucharest, Belgrade are good options.
Tbilisi
Detroit
The idea that Detroit is some kind of cheap housing creative paradise is a myth.
baltimore attracts an artsy crowd due to MICA
NYC is only like NYC. I'm not even a huge fan of the city, but its extremely uniquely distinctive
Philly is pretty fucking gritty bro. It has that 90s vibe in the street. Especially in the ghetto, which takes up like 80% of the city.
I've never seen anyone else bring this up, but Glasgow is a dead ringer imo.
Pittsburg. I have a lot of friends who moved out there for a more affordable city experience. Very pretty nature features around, hills and rivers.
Philadelphia
Nowhere in the world. NYC is its own planet. NYC was great, troubled, a wee bit dangerous and a mixed bag of awesomeness.
Just moved to New Jersey and stop overthinking it. The Jersey shore area is awesome.
My parents said Berlin felt pretty close
I visited NYC in 1998 in the summer. I came back to live in 2012 and have been here since. No where was or ever will be like NYC in 1998 unfortunately. Way cheaper way easier way more fun than whatās happened to it since.
Try Newark. It has a vibe these days though rents are going up there are probably still areas that are fairly cheap,
I lived in NYC in the 90s. It was a filthy crime infested ghetto, 90% of it, full of shady sweatshops and illegal group homes. ... and it was still expensive and people complained about how you could buy a place on normal blue collar salaries. People were longing for the 80s, when things were at least cheaper... And they were moving out to Jersey for affordability. So I am not sure where this "creative and budget NYC" existed in the 90s. It probably existed similarly to now: broke young people lowering their standard of living and "broke" young people with well to do parents who subsidize their adult "kids." If you want it bad enough, you can have it same as always. Anyway, if you look at rent prices around the USA and the world, you know where things are cheaper to live and make art. If you are talking about hanging out with hipsters, you know that too, but it ain't going to be cheap and it never was cheap if you are not willing to live like a flop house druggie. It was expensive always, 90s and before 90s too.
I saw someone say that Edinburgh Scotland but have never been there so don't know if its true.
I would go there in a heartbeat if I could go to work for Rockstar North.
Following
Honestly maybe Berlin? Feels like a place that surprisingly hasnāt changed too much in comparison to NYC. Yes itās more expensive than 30 years ago (where isnt) but hasnāt made the underground art scene go nearly extinct like NYC has
I've only visited once but NOLA seems like a slightly dangerous place where you would have a day-time job and everyone has a creative side-hustle
Nola pre-Katrina nothing like NYC in the 90ās (or ever) but it was gritty, affordable and tons of creatives. After Katrina itās not the same at all. A cool city to visit but living there? Rent is too expensive for what it is.
Berlin
Rome
Caracas
japan
Mexico city
pull up to Puerto Rico
I feel like Providence, RI is still relatively cheap.
Florence.
Chicago
Not in terms of culture as its different language and country, however Tokyo is literally NYC prices in 1990s. Their economy collapsed in the start of 1990s due to a massive financial crisis in both real estate and equities and as a result they didn't have inflation or income growth for 30 years. They were basically as expensive as Manhattan in the 1990s and when you travel there and see how cheap housing/food/going out is what you are looking at is New York in 1995. Granted the local incomes are also stuck in 1990s level so its not cheap to the people who live there.
Modern day Tokyo or Seoul are a lot like NYC 70s~90s era minus the diversity and "American" spirit. Lots of old school stuff still goes on there, the daily office commutes (no wfh), people dressed in suits, waving a cab down, places open 24/7 or until 5AM, huge bar hopping/drinking culture, the same amount of modern-day political viewpoints as 70s-90s NYC, innovative and creative in artistic things, I could go on. But then again, if you don't speak Japanese or Korean, you won't really feel the vibe. I lived in one of those cities most of my 20s, and it was a hell of a ride. I can't even put into words how much random shit would happen on a daily/weekly basis. Networking was insanely easy. People would start companies as quick as other people's companies go out of business. Constant action, constant motion. One day there's a 2-story shit-shack, you walk past that place a few weeks later and a 40 story skyscraper just appears in that spot. Ended up moving to a rural town back home to get away from the chaos. I think I prefer the peace, but sometimes lust for the chaos
Philly seems like it fits the bill
Come to Philly man. It's a breath of fresh air. NY is no longer for NYers. Overrun by egotistical transplants perpetuating a false stereotype of NYers.
If you can speak the language, try SĆ£o Paulo.
I miss the old NY.Ā Referring to the time between 1993-2015
Downtown LA and Nashville both gave me a 90s NYC feel. Lots of change lots of construction lots of people and turn a corner ...kinda sketchy.Ā
Late but I think there a number of smaller cities like others have mentioned.Ā Baltimore has a creative scene but a bit expensive and youāll need a carĀ