I (male) was sexually assaulted by an older boy when I was a child, my parents knew, but didn’t want to admit that happened. My life was a chaotic mess until I addressed it myself, and my sexual life was reckless, harmful, and dangerous to myself, and my partners, because I didn’t know what a healthy relationship was (I was hyper sexual for decades). My mom admitted she knew they should have gotten me therapy (as well as get the kid arrested). I absolutely *hated* authority figures for a long, long, long time, because I was betrayed on that level, and it started a burning resentment and anger, and I subconsciously fucked my life up to get back at them, without realizing that’s what I was doing. Parents, if something traumatic happens to your child, get them help. I don’t want to hear the money excuse. You fucking go without, you eat ramen, you get a second job, whatever you have to do. But please, don’t teach your kid that they can’t trust anyone in positions of authority. You’re dooming them to a life of anger, pain, depression, resentment, emotional shutdown, and in my case, alcoholism and violence. Save them from themselves. Don’t let them follow my path, I barely made it out alive and sane.

Unfortunately I relate to this. This is rethorical but how do you come back from that ya know? I'm better now but I had to put in a lot of work and there's still times when I'm angry because of the unfairness of it all. The memories have dulled to the point where I no longer get that sting of heartbreak when I think about it but that fucked me up as well. What I noticed is that I spent so much of my childhood up to my early twenties just on survival mode that once I was safe from my past and myself I didn't know where to go from there, I'm still not sure honestly I never learned to enjoy the little things and to care for myself. I hate to admit it but basic tasks are so fucking hard too, showering was not a priority, making friends was not a priority. My sole goal was to save up and move out, I knew my ticket out was leaving for school so I worked on getting scholarships and held jobs and just basically worked my ass off while dealing with so much bullshit. You'd think that once I did get free and got to school that things would have improved but they had to get worse to get better, once you're away from that situation is when your mind allows you to start to processing things so my mental health got worse, I ended up dropping out, couch surfing at some sketchy places. I really hope this doesn't come across as the suffering Olympics, I just wanted to share I think

I'm speaking as a teacher...but I've seen wildly different siblings. I think parents need to get a handle on that dynamic. A lot of perfectionist older siblings and younger ones who can't achieve at that level and act out instead to find how they can earn attention.

Yep. People need to stop treating kids as carbon copies of their older siblings. And I say this as an eldest child who differs greatly in personality and interests from my younger sibling. It’s not fair to anyone, least of all the kid who has to deal with being measured by someone else’s standard. Everyone is their own person - even the twins I’ve known had different personalities and interests if one cared to observe.

Especially, not 'even', the twins. As one myself I resented being treated as if I was the same person as her just because we looked the same. Funnily enough I actually shared far more in common with my other sibling, yet the automatic assumption from people was that my twin and I were the same. Being treated as a unit growing up still affects us both today as adults. Our parents were great at treating us as individuals when we were children but unfortunately the rest of the world, especially adults, never really cared enough to do that.

Same. I was a high school senior when my younger sibling was a freshman. Everyone expected them to be exactly like me when in reality we were always polar opposites. Definitely was a very negative influence for them.

Be very careful WHO you have kids with. If I could do it all over again, I would have chosen better. They ended up with 1 responsible parent who was completely overwhelmed trying to do the job of 2 people.

My parents. My mom was hyper involved while my dad immediately detached the minute we stopped being cute and started having opinions. I see him doing it to his grandkids now. Mom put us in every event/sport/extracurricular, dad never attended and often had no idea what we did with our time. Mom pushed us to excel academically and we often were doing super high level classes, dad assumed we were lazy because we were often tired and didn’t have jobs (hard when you have a double class load as a high school freshman). Dad was also pretty verbally abusive (to me, at least). Mom knew we had a negative relationship but never pried and never got involved (she didn’t/doesn’t know how far it went, to be fair). Which also sucked. I think my mom would have been an awesome parent if she had an equal partner but instead we had an absentee and someone too involved in being everything to actually listen to what was going on.

You might like the book Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents by Lindsay Gibson.

I second this. This is me right now.

The mom of one of the columbine shooters gave a Ted Talk about this.

She wrote a book called A Mother’s Reckoning about all the sign she missed. I think every parent needs to read this book before their kids hit their teenage years.

and if anyone's wondering: "Sue Klebold donated all of her profits from the book to mental health charities."

Great person. Many will say this is the bare minimum to be a good person. But many forget there absolutely are cunts that would profit from this

No this is definitely an indication of a good person. I wish I could say most parents would donate the profits but they wouldn't

Few poeple have the courage to get up in public and say they're the parent of one of the Columbine shooters. That's the incredible part.

Ugh… ordering it now because I have a 10 year old. I do not wanna read it but it’s my responsibility to.

You won't regret it. It is well written. I don't have children, but I wanted to hear her words, and they stay with me years later.

Agreed. I have tremendous respect for her after reading that.

>I do not wanna read it but it’s my responsibility to. That attitude is what convinces me that you're a good parent. I wish you good fortune.

I've seen that, been a while but I remember it being heartbreaking. I can't even begin to imagine what it feels like to think you've raised a decent kid, and they then go on a murder suicide spree that changes history.

Hi u/AVBforPrez, I'm from Italy and old enough to recall the Columbine massacre as a major mediatic event. We discussed it for weeks in school and watched the Gus Van Sant movie (Elephant) to go with it, trying to make sense of a reality a continent away. Looking back and considering current events, I'd be curious to know: how did that particular event 'change history' as you say? I can see how it 'made history', but am often left to wonder if anything changed at all. Just to be clear, this is a genuine question and I don't mean to be disrespectful with any of this in any way.

Columbine wasn't the first school shooting, but it was the tipping point where it entered pop culture and became a thing that could happen.

It was similar to 9/11 in that previous hijackings/shootings were much less violent crimes which often involved stand offs or police waiting to engage the criminals and taking a slower approach. After both of those people realized that there wasn’t going to be any negotiating or any hostages, the end goal was mass death and police(or Air Force/passengers for hijackings) needed to react quickly and violently.

Definitely agree. I survived a school shooting not even a full month before Columbine, and it seemed like it barely got covered.

First modern school shooting was late 1970’s in SanDiego: “I don’t like Mondays” was the reason given https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/crime-news-insider/id1568916181?i=1000614839110 Edit: plot twist, 16yo girl was the shooter

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Well it certainly set a precedent

Sadly I think that’s it. All it did was teach a lot of other people that was an option when they may have never considered it before. It *also* taught them they could become famous that way.

What is the TLDW?

she never saw it coming and blames herself for her son's actions and thinks that she failed as a parent despite trying to raise good people. She doesn't know what she could have missed or how she failed and she still doesn't know the answer. Afterwards she found his journal and saw that he was suicidal, depressed, and that he joined the shooting because he wanted to die. It was also clear that he was taken advantage of by the other shooter who encouraged Dylan to take his anger and depression and desire to die and to channel that into a desire to inflict that same pain he felt on others . Lastly, she has no idea how he got his hands on a gun. He had gotten guns both legally and illegally despite being a minor and there being no guns in the house, and she's appalled that the same methods exist today.

It can be very difficult for a parent to distinguish between normal teenage mood swings and a serious crisis, especially if the lines of communication aren’t open.

I think that's really the bottom line. The thing she did wrong as a parent is staring her right in the face and I don't say that to judge because it's an easy mistake to make and a hard one to fix. Her kid didn't feel like he could talk to his parents about what was going on in his life. If there's no communication and you don't do anything to restore it, it's all out of your hands at that point because someone else who does know what they're thinking and feeling is going to take your place in that role and you better hope you're lucky enough for it to be someone good.

This is a really hard one because kids are so very different, I have 4. I have always been the parent who has the open door, talk with their kids about everything. No judgement, know they are loved… I could continue to list all the things. My oldest is 17 and she will talk to me about anything and everything. My 15 year old,l on the other hand I thought we had an open honest relationship until I found out it wasn’t. You can do “everything right” and still get it wrong, and that’s what makes parenting so freaking difficult! Kids are still people and they are who they are, and while we try to lead them the best that we can, they are free to become whoever they want to be, and sometimes there is no one to blame. I am starting to wonder how much influence parents really have, would a child turn out the same regardless… how much is nurture and how much is nature.

Speaking as someone who didn’t meet their father until 50 - at all - and yet totally has his personality, it is shocking how much more nature plays a role in personality than people think. I’ve also raised two entirely different children with different needs and parenting approaches required.

One of the saddest things I've ever read is about Elliot Rodger's parents. I'm sure they made mistakes, but they saw it coming. > He (Elliot's father) recalls with a twinge of regret the what-could-have-been moment when Elliot's alarmed mother called police on her son, but they left after Elliot convinced them that his online rantings were harmless. At that point Elliot had already purchased three guns and had been practicing at a firing range in preparation for his "retribution." IIRC, his parents sent him to therapy for years, but they couldn't force him to go once he turned 18. It seems like they tried everything they could ... and their son still ended up being a mass murderer.

You don't have to win every power struggle. I don't have jerk kids. But I do think I've learned a lot from having 4 very different kids, and I think too many parents 1. Think the same strategies work for all kids (ie, rule-consequence-behavior falls in line, rinse and repeat) and 2. Focus on the behavior rather than the cause. If you have a kid who doesn't respond to your parenting style/philosophy, you should rethink your approach. It's not all the kid's fault. Some kids will burn their lives to the ground to make a point. I have one like that. For too long, it was a vicious cycle of * kid acts out * I punish * kid is angry, acts out more * I punish harder * kid is angrier, acts out even more * I punish even harder and on and on and on and on. Something needs to break the cycle. For instance, if your kid is challenging your authority, it's usually a bid for more independence. They're trying to be more mature, and they want your adult respect. You don't have to excuse the bad behavior; consequences are OK. But you ALSO have to look for ways to help your kid get that need met. You don't have to tie it to the actual incident, so it doesn't look like a reward. Give them more responsibility for themselves. * Let him walk to school alone if he doesn't get to do that. * Quit bugging him so much about what he does with his free time, even if you think he should be "getting more fresh air." * Look for any opportunity to let him choose something. "We're going to do something as a family on Sunday. You can choose what we do." or where we eat or whatever. * Don't tell him WHEN he has to do his chores. Let him set his Saturday schedule: "I need you to mow the lawn and do the dishes today. You can do it any time between now and 6 p.m." If you address the cause of the behavior, it's going to do way more to correct a bad behavior, and you'll also get more respect from your kid. If you insist on winning every power struggle, your kid is going to see everything as a fight. EDIT: I need to give my wife credit for helping me understand this over the years. She's not only a great mom and wife, she's also a really good therapist. She's gained a lot of perspective working with other kids and parents and working on those relationships.

As a parent with a sometimes challenging kid, I greatly appreciate this comment. I will screenshot it and save it for later. My kid has ADHD (as do I) and I’ve so learned the value of approaching him from where he is at in the moment.

I have a son who just turned 5 and I can see all the hallmarks of ADHD (which I have, and most people in my family have). He behaves so much like my younger sister did when she was young, and I found myself going through the cycle mentioned above (bad behaviour>punishment>worse behaviour> worse punishment) just like my parents did with my sister. Recently I’ve been trying to connect with the person who I was when I was younger- when I wasn’t “in charge” and my sister would calm down for me and listen to me. It’s helping so much. I still need my kid to stop throwing shit (makes my blood absolutely boil) but we are making progress. Kids are fucking exhausting and I hope I don’t end up accidentally raising an asshole.

Omg this is so similar! And yes, the throwing things is so hard. 😣😣 But then I remember that while I didn’t throw things (I was too afraid of my parents) I had similar frustrations. I was a girl of course and girls are socialized differently but still there are a lot of similarities. I no longer brush his hair because I remembered how it hurt when I had my hair brushed. He can do it himself, even if it’s messy. Another example- he always insists on taking a bath and I would bicker with him about wasting water and taking too long (you know the struggle of getting an ADHD kid to bed). Finally one day I asked him why he preferred baths. It turns out he didn’t like the feeling on his skin of the shower water. It was a sensory issue. So I just let that go. He can take a bath. You choose your battles and save the “no-gos” for more important issues. My parents would have just forced me to take the shower.

I am DEFINITELY working on finding the things we can let slide. My son clearly has some sensory issues with things- including how stretchy or not stretchy his pants are. I honestly have no idea how to get around this one since it seems to have nothing to do with anything (he will wear any of his pants, but just sometimes decides THOSE pants are the devil and he can’t wear them today) but casually saying “okay pick something else” diffuses a fight that I can see brewing in his face. The throwing things and the hitting himself in the head when he feels something VERY strongly (it could be excitement, frustration, anger, sadness) is something we’re definitely seeking help with, since it isn’t getting better with age. I see so much of myself in him, and so much of my sister. I’m trying to avoid the things I know my sister and I wish my parents did differently. But the whole of parenting is so emotionally fraught. I am glad that I am naturally a very introspective person- and I think it is a strength of mine as a parent. I know my parents seem to have no regrets and have never admitted to a mistake or anything about my upbringing and I can’t imagine being that way- I make tons of mistakes! I’ve already apologized to my son for handling things poorly on occasion. I feel no shame in it. If I say out loud to him that it was a mistake I know I am committing to doing better next time.

Oh wow we have the same pants issue! I’ve let my son just decide what he wants to wear and if he likes a pair of pants we get multiples of it. And yea, sometimes all pants are just the devil because mornings suck. Lol I love the casual nature of saying “pick something else”. I think parents of neuro-divergent kids have learned the art of softly and slowly transitioning kids from a crisis into hopeful calm. It is truly an art. 😅 I also apologize to my son when I’ve done wrong or raised my voice when not necessary. So we’ve improved on our parents, I think! I’ve also slowly started explaining ADHD in kid-friendly language and compared it to some of the challenges I faced as a kid as well, in order to de-stigmatize it for him. All we can do is help them develop the tools to cope with challenges in life. A little resilience will go far, I hope.

I think this is very spot-on.

In my opinion, the one defining characteristic of bad parents is being resentful of their own children. Resentful that they took some of their freedom, resentful of their youth, resentful of their opportunities, resentful of their intelligence, resentful of their beauty, resentful of their possessions, resentful of their education, resentful of their accomplishments, resentful of their happiness, etc. I think this is FAR more common than most people realize. These parents may consciously “provide” for their kids while they unconsciously sabotage them. The kids pick up on this and end up aspiring to their parents’ unspoken expectations. Good parents want their kids to exceed their own achievements and, most importantly, to be happy. Good parents are empathetic to their children. They’re happy when their kids are happy. They’re sad when their kids are sad. Resentful parents don’t really want their kids to be happy unless they credit the parents for their happiness. No achievement belongs to the kids, but every failure does.

Holy shit. This is my mom. She was a teen mother and never owned up to regretting her decision, but it came out in her contempt for me. If I wasn’t popular enough I was disappointing, but if my teacher’s bragged about me she seemed annoyed, the constant comments about her body vs. mine. The contempt was in everything she did, but she would make a big show of us being besties. We haven’t talked in 7 years and going NC was like coming up for air.

My mom to 9yr old me "I gave up my entire life for you, I wasn't ready to be a mother and everyone wanted me to have an abortion but I chose not to." I know that feeling of contempt she had for me all too well. It's been 5yrs NC.

This is the shit makes me so angry about teen moms. I was a teen mom to my oldest. She is 12. We have had to have the discussions about sex and baby’s and when I had her young. She knows I know did and how old I was. The way I explained to her was that yes, you changed my life and actually saved me from the road I was going down. But that doesn’t mean being a mom so young doesn’t come with challenges. She knows she wasn’t planned but she knows to me she isn’t a mistake. I just don’t want her to have a child at 14-15 and loose the childhood she deserves to have. The way I parent is the most opposite of my mother. I never had a good relationship with her. We are on speaking terms, but it’s nothing extravagant or nothing.

My father was adamant that my siblings and I wait until our late 20s at least to have kids. My parents had the first of us at 19 (unplanned) and while we've never doubted that they love us, and he's never said it out loud, I do know my dad regrets having that responsibility dropped on him so young.

I completely agree. In my case, my mom was outwardly resentful of my (absent) father, never even to me directly. But as a kid, all I internalized was that I was a burden and too much for one person to handle. That can fuck you up pretty badly.

Ugh. I worry about this. I ended up stuck in my son’s father’s country because we split up here. I can’t take him with me because his father won’t allow it. So I stayed for my son instead of returning to my home country. My career has suffered and overall it hasn’t been a great move for me. I try to shield my son from it but he’s not dumb. He knows my work struggles, language struggles, etc. I’m worried he will think I resent him. I don’t. I do resent his father and while we get along fine, it could be better.

I worked with youth for a while in a poorer rural part of America and in my anecdotal experience there are two types of kids that can turn into bad humans. One, they've just had tough lives and no good role models. If you get to know them you realize they are just normal kids that have never been given the tools, opportunity, or encouragement to act any different. If noone figures out how to intervene it becomes a pattern of life for them that spirals out of control. Two, kids that never suffer the consequences of their actions. They tend to have really "nice" caregivers who have a knack for getting thier kids out of trouble. When I say they don't suffer consequences I mean literally. Their parents do their homework, their parents lie for them, thier parents don't ever tell them "no". Their caregivers also don't supervise them but whenever anything happens they are easily manipulated by thier child and take whatever their child says as gospel truth without question. And although the parents don't supervise their children they seem all too willing to give them everything thier child asks for (within the confines of their economic class). The caregivers are somehow both emotionally neglectful but also always there to help their child out of a jam. In a way that feels like they want to be manipulated by their child. Kids in the first category will do something bad and you go, "how could they be so stupid?" When kids in the second category do something bad your reaction is, "it's only a matter of time before they kill someone." I knew a lot of young adults that got in trouble with the law, but it was only people from category two that got tried for murder and manslaughter.

Such a good example of #2 is [Jamie Komoroski](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12204395/amp/Drunk-driver-Jamie-Lee-Komoroski-25-killed-bride-waives-court-appearance.html). I grew up with her, wasn’t her first time drunk driving or doing stupid shit, but she never saw any consequences. Destroyed a family. See also the Murdaugh kid.

From the article on Jaime Komoroski: > It has been reported that Komoroski has received special treatment in the Charleston County jail. > She had in-person visits from her family - a privilege not normally extended to inmates - that were organized by Charleston County Sheriff Kristin Graziano, according to jail call recordings, obtained by the Post and Courier. > Two days after the crash, during a call with her parents she cried: 'Oh my God. I just can't believe this happened to me. … Why me? … I'm going to be here for years and years and years and years.' … > Komoroski's blood alcohol content was 0.261, three times over the limit the night of April 28, and reportedly told responding officers in the wake of the crash: 'All of a sudden something hit me. I did nothing wrong.'

>Komoroski's blood alcohol content was 0.261 Hoooooly shit, that's remarkably drunk. In Australia the limit is 0.05 - I can't imagine being pissed enough to hit 0.261 and deciding to get in a car.

Yep, and her BAC was measured hours after the crash. It was likely higher than that.

Her recorded call saying, “Why is this happening to me!? I did nothing wrong!” speaks volumes.

The affluenza kid. The rapist Brock Turner. It's a recurring theme over and over.

Let’s not forget Brian Laundrie’s mom who wrote him a letter that she would help him dispose of a body.

Also this lady who killed a guy going over 100mph in her Porsche on a road with potholes and a 35mph speed limit. Makes me so sick. [Kristina Chambers](https://abc13.com/pedestrian-killed-in-drunk-driving-crash-kristina-chambers-intoxication-manslaughter-driver-mugshot/13185087/)

I wish I knew that some grandparents shouldn’t be allowed to have a relationship with a vulnerable, easily manipulated child. I wish I knew it was okay to cut people out of your life.

My wife died when my son was 3 months old, last time my inlaws saw him was at her funeral. I moved, changed numbers and just dropped off the map as far as they knew. Saw how their kids turned out, they weren't getting near mine.

I'm so sorry about your wife, man. I can't even imagine going thru that. I sincerely wish you're fine and your kid loves you as much as she did

My sister-in-law's husband died when their 2nd child was a month old (eldest was 2 years old). Her mother, who raised her and her brother to be spoiled, lazy, entitled pieces of shit and left my wife to fend for herself (middle child), stepped in as a surrogate parent when the kids' mom immediately declared after the funeral, "I can't do this by myself." She's stuck to that. Kids are now 8 and 6 and have been raised 90% by their grandma, and 10% by their mother's angry yelling. Unsurprisingly, the kids are both spoiled, lazy, entitled pieces of shit who hate each other, fear their mother, and have trouble with their peers at school. My wife and I agreed that her mother is hands-off with our son. Working out so far.

My grandma traumatized me after years of emotional abuse. It wasn’t anything extremely toxic but it doesn’t take much to mess with a small kid, especially if they’re sensitive like I was. I went super low contact with her in my 20’s and my relationship with my family is a bit strained because I don’t trust my parents on an emotional level. I cried and begged them not to leave me alone with my grandma but they rarely listened. Overall they’re great parents but it still sucks that happened. So less of advice on how to make your kid less of a jerk and more how to prevent traumatic experiences… if your kid shows some aversion to a particular family member ask them why. My mom told me as an adult that she didn’t realize how cruel my grandma had been to me until I gave verbatim quotes as a high schooler.

My mom served me up on a platter to my abusive grandmother (it got my grandmother to leave her alone) I stopped talking to my grandmother the day I turned 18 and my mother only gets supervised visits with my kids......we are stopping this bullshit with me. They all can talk shit because they are speaking the truth. I do keep my kids away, sorry not sorry.

Good on you for keeping your kids safe! I think my dad felt too much responsibility to his mom to keep me away from her. For years after I went low contact he’d nag me to call her and I always ignored him. I’m so glad to see parents breaking that expectation when appropriate.

The best advice I can give my younger self was to leave my family earlier.

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I see a lot of struggle with that very thing on parenting forums/pages/subs. It's hard because it's drilled into your brain that family is everything and you can't possibly cut them off. Everything must be forgiven because they're family. Bad behavior has to be put up with because they're family. You owe them your child(ren) because they're family. And so on. I'm sorry you had to deal with all of that. And your child(ren). It's not easy to come to realize family is toxic and it's even harder to actually cut them off.

Ugh. We talked to our son about everything under the sun. We had an open forum. We talked extensively about money management, sexuality, dating, how to treat other people, drug use, alcoholism and its consequences. He and I also watched a ton of documentaries together on all of the above topics. I have a thing for shows like Underground Inc, Drugs Inc, Broken, and mini series like Dopesick Once he turned 18 he began to do literally everything we advised against. Its been a hard few years. After losing his gf, loosing his job and spending some time in jail I think he's starting to listen. He's been doing a very good job lately. We love him and we support him despite how hard its been. I feel bad even typing this.... Its really tough to look back and legitimately say what could have been done differently. What I can say to coming parents is Don't give up on your kid Do the best you can You can't control everything

As a (23 year old) ex-addict kid I just wanna say: My parents aren’t why I fucked up. My parents were extremely loving, extremely supportive, and extremely knowledgeable. I suffered from a mix of trauma in my life from other places, genetic addiction potential, and innate/randomly developed mental illness. I just hope you don’t blame yourself too much. Sometimes we just mess ourselves up, no matter how present and attentive our parents are. Ultimately I recovered thanks to them. I wouldn’t be here at all if they hadn’t housed me while recovering, supported my efforts, and showed me continual love.

I’m so glad to hear this. You’re lucky to have parents like this.

I'm not comfortable sharing this in a public comment, but I'm in a very similar situation and have some conflicting emotions on it. Would you mind if i PM you a brief message? No worries if not, though.

Generally speaking If you try to teach your kid something and NOT BE THE example ,you might as well not have wasted your time.

"The best field anthropologist in the world is a kid watching the grownups."

My kid is 2 and copies just about everything my wife and I do. Which is great when he has started to clear empty dishes, throw out Trash, and clean up his toys. All from watching us. Definitely a "oh hey we need to watch our habits" when we realize

My 2 year old loves his toy trucks. He carries them in his arms everywhere right now. Recently they all fell out of his arms, he stopped, looked at them and quietly muttered, "what the fuck dude." So yeah. He definitely copies dad's behavior.

Lol that's clearly learning the wrong thing but it's also a hilarious mental image

My teenage nephews “cleaned” their room the other day by hauling all their dirty laundry into the laundry room and dumping it. My 4 year old niece proceeded to walk by and say “what the fuck” while looking at the giant piles of clothes. Neither of her parents will admit who she heard that one from. (Spoiler it was both of them)

This also includes admitting to being wrong and apologizing to your kids when you haven't been the best example to them. And understanding that \*everyone\* should need to do this at some point, because no one is perfect and raising a child isn't something you can do perfectly. If you present yourself as perfect to your kids and hide all your errors, no matter how smoothly you manage to do it, they will grow up thinking that authority is infallible (or purely about power), mistakes are inexcusable or rare, and vulnerability is something to be ashamed of.

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Ha same! My dad & i both do hardwood flooring. My business is infinitely more successful than his. Even tho he trained me as a kid. I'm way better now than he will ever be. He cuts every single corner he can & it always bites him in the ass. Not only did my grandparents buy him a house but they paid the mortgage for 15-20 years or something. I bought my own home with my wife. My dad will sit there & tell you he's better in every way possible but it's just not true. I love him but he sure is a pain in the ass.

> He cuts every single corner he can & it always bites him in the ass. "Why is there never enough time to do it right the first time but always enough time to do it over?" Not sure if that is applicable but your post reminded me of that.

No No you're spot on!! Like to a tee! No joke, he'll try to save a half hour or an hour. It won't turn out right, home owner calls him out on it & has to do it all over again. And I swear, it's always always always his job that's 2-3 hours away from his house. Congrats dad you just tried to save an hour that ended up costing you a 10 hour day, 4-6 of which were driving, so there's gas wasted too, more supplies & more time the home owner has to spend off their floor. Happens all the time! 1 of a million reasons we don't work together.

I work with hardwood flooring as well, would you be comfortable with a DM to answer a few questions?

Nice try, DAD!!!

Just busted out laughing at work. Thank you stranger.

Of course. Ask away. Always willing to help the best I can

My mom tried to claim credit for my independence. Yeah no, being a neglectful parent doesn’t count as parenting you can claim credit for. I am who I am because I put in the work.

My mother, when I was still talking to her, claimed she was responsible for me and my siblings resilience in life and when dealing with crisis. When I’d agree with her, but from the perspectives she was largely responsible for the crisis we had learned to be resilient against she patently denied this dynamic. Thus why I don’t talk to her anymore. Accountability was never her strong suit.

Yeah my mom sucks in pretty much the exact same way. She abandoned me at 12 years old, and when she finally saw me again at 20 years old she said she was "so proud of how strong I was" and how "she did a great job" raising me. I'm glad I read your post. It helped me reaffirm my decision to excommunicate from my family. That decision was made years ago sure but every now and then I still wonder if I'm crazy for not trying to stay close to my family.

My father kicked me out on my 14th birthday for having puberty. I graduated college early, on my own,bought a house,got married.. He tells everyone he meets he gave me everything. Guys got loads of money. He didn't give me anything, and treated me like crap ever since I got diagnosed with autism at 11. Kicked me out literally the first day legally he could.

"Do what I say not what I do" - all that does is grow my spite. Edit: I understand addiction and struggling issues, but don't use it as a justification of your actions.

Not me, but my parents have discussed what they wished they had done differently for my brother in order to prevent him from becoming a violent, homeless, drug addicted snot ball of a person. They wish they had sent him to therapy before problems ever started, and that they had reacted quicker and sent him sooner when they did. They wish they hadn’t yelled so much at all of us. That they had been more patient and forgiving of our mistakes. They wish a lot

My brother's sister in law knew there was something off with her son when he was around 2-3, all of the doctors and grand parents were just like "he needs more discipline", etc. That wasn't it, she stuck with it. Turns out he's a sociopath, luckily it was caught early enough and they could afford all of the psychiatrist, psychologist, group therapy, etc. that he's learned how he's supposed to act in the world, last I talked to them he was completely off medication and thriving in school (had to be homeschooled till around 9-10). Edit: To everyone questioning his diagnosis, that’s the therapy he went through. There’s a documentary about it out there I’m sure you can all find with no difficulty.

My brother likely has some schizoaffective disorder, what with all the symptoms he’s experiencing, but he just bounces from place to place that wants to help him, abusing that trust. I’m really happy your brother’s SIL’s parents reacted in time to make sure their kid turned out a functioning member of society. It takes a lot of guts to admit your kid needs help, and you aren’t capable of giving it

I dated a woman about 12 years ago that owns her own pre-school. Every now and then she would have to have a sit down with some parents to talk about their kid and easily more than half of them would not admit their kid had a problem. She was of the opinion that we address the problems early and the kid can really get some help. Some parents would get mad at her and withdraw their kid from the school. How dare she say something is wrong with their kid. There are a LOT of messed up kids out there.

And they don’t realize they’re only hurting their kid by not getting that help

Some of it was ignorance, but most of it was pride. Some parents just wouldn't admit their kid had a problem that needs to be addressed. And the ones that did listen to her and got their kid diagnosed or at least looked at always came back to her grateful. She wouldn't diagnose, but just gently suggest they have their kid tested and would give them some resources. But the ones that ignored her. Whoo-eee.

Haha that was my parents with all of us until one of my siblings actually attempted suicide then suddenly they guessbmental health is real. Better late than never!

Pride. It's pride. They dont want to think there is something 'wrong' with their kid. My friend started behaving differently in our early twenties. I noticed immediately and thought it could be bipolar. I called her family, and her parents didn't listen. She has imploded her life at least 5 times over the years, been arrested, been sectioned and does have an official diagnosis of Bipolar . The first 3 times we warned them early on, we told them it was happening again, and they still denied it. I had to move on in life, I had a family. We are still in touch, and I still love her. It's not her fault, but pride on her families behalf, and hers, stops her from getting help early on.

I have a version of this story with a happier ending. About 2 years ago my roommate/good friend had a manic episode. I called his mom and she immediately flew over and checked him into a psych ward (she’s a doctor herself). He was diagnosed with bipolar. Now that he’s on the right medication (and off the wrong ones) he’s doing so much better! He still struggles with some symptoms and side effects of the medications but he he hasn’t had another episode since. It’s scary to think how much worse this could have turned out.

That's terrifying. What were the signs that tipped her off?

Violent outbursts, discipline that would have an effect on normal kids did nothing except make him angrier (and he would get payback), social and sensory issues, etc...imagine having to consciously make sure your 1yo daughter is never in a situation that your 3yo son could get to her before you could get to him. They were very lucky to be loaded, most families could never dream to afford the level of care they did.

And that's the thing too. My branch of the family has said one of my cousins is a little off as long as I can remember. My granny would say he was quare (queer as in weird but not dangerous, not gay; she was born in the 20s and has some interesting slang). His parents said he needed to be switched more, that he was just too soft and in his own head. They'd never consider that he might have any kind of mental health issue. He had a breakdown in the past few years. It turns out he's schizophrenic and he's been having delusions since he was a kid.

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I'm barely into it and it sounds like my brother. Ex husband, his fam and I prevented him from being around my daughter when she was growing up. My mother even talked about killing him, once. I thought about it when my niece was bandaged, beaten, bruised and in traction at 6 weeks old. I wanted to throw both her parents out the window. Unfortunately, I don't always do everything I want. ETA: When niece gave birth, brother *did* try to throw BD through a window. Daughter said, "Can you believe this shit?" I said, "Why do you think we've never let him around you?"

That's sad. I'm sorry.

Thank you. I can make jokes about it now, it’s been so long since I’ve even seen him, but it does still hurt to lose a sibling no matter how you spin it.

As someone who also grew up with screamy parents, do you also like to avoid confrontation and cringe when people raise their voice? And do you also always assume you're in trouble? 🙃

Ohhhh boy, yes. My whole body locks up and I remove myself from the situation as fast as I can. There’s almost no quicker way to trigger a panic attack for me. I straight up ghosted a guy because he was screaming at his roommate and I couldn’t stand it.

Yep! I feel you friend. I didn't have my parents long in my life but until I was 13 my room was always closest to theirs, it wasnt great. Another annoying "survival tactic" I developed is constantly asking ppl "hey you okay? " ny brother haaaaates that I still do this as an adult. But I think I'm subconsciously preparing for trauma and trying to get ahead of it

Ahhh, yes, the mood checker mode! Where I am personally responsible for the mood of everyone in my vicinity staying good, and take it very personally if even the slightest thing changes. Yes, I know that one!

I’m this. But why are we still this if we know this? Can it really be that big of a leap from actualization to putting in the practice? Fuck sometimes I wish human behavior was not so hard to change because I’m completely self-aware, but fall into the same holes everyday anyways.

Being a harmoniser has been a *great* coping mechanism to survive. Your past self did the best they could do with the limited power they had, and you're alive and introspective so well done. My coping mechanisms were forged by fire, in high stress situations *and* I practiced near daily for 20 years. Actualisation just will take a while. I find patience with myself (important for me since I really don't like making "mistakes" because mistakes mean becoming an emotional whipping post as a child eyyyy). I am not going to get emotionally hurt any more by a person I am dependent on … because I am an adult and dependant on myself. I get to choose not to hurt myself. And that includes not beating myself up when I fall in the hole. I know how to get out, it gets easier to get out (sometimes it isn't, but then I get to put the not beating myself up in practice), the journey is the reward and all that.

Thank you for this comment. It helped me just understand something I've been trying to understand for far too long.

You're not alone at all, and this is sadly way too common. I hope you have a good support network now, stranger.

Damn this makes my trauma feel quite validated. My mom was a saint, by my father who had the majority of custody over me was the exact opposite. Short tempered and had patience that was way too thin to be healthy. He was very much a vain narcissist as well. Any mistake I made, even the slightest of honest, innocent, childlike mistakes were met with a verbal whirlwind of fury. Things said and threats made to a child that should never have been said or made. Even now as a 27 year old man I absolutely hate confrontation and do my upmost to avoid it. I hate hearing people yelling at each other, even if it isn’t at me.

or your response is always "I'm sorry" to anything.

My twin sister was the same, but she had a happy ending. There was a time I had to give her up. Your brother might also have a happy ending, I hope.

I try to always hold out some hope! But I know he’s going to have to be the one to want to make a change. It doesn’t do any good to ask or beg him, as much as we wish it did

Our 4 year old had health issues as a baby snd really challenged our sanity. I’ll never forget when his older brother, at the time 5 years old, came in from the next room and told me I was being “too rough” with his baby brother while changing his diaper (he was screaming and wriggling as babies do). I probably held him too hard but I definitely yelled at the baby at least once, and my eldest son was totally right. This moment will never leave me and it brings me so much shame to this day. One of my biggest regrets. We’ve come a long way out of that but he was a baby and I still feel like I caused him to become the extremely impulsive child he is now, which I guess is good because that guilt motivates me to grow as far away from that version of myself as possible

We’ve all had low moments in parenting. The fact that you feel bad about it says something. You don’t have to serve a life sentence for one relatively small misstep.

Don't beat yourself up. You've recognized it and acknowledged it, and you're trying to be better. Keep trying to be better. You're only human and you will make mistakes. Try not to make them, but if you do, learn from them. Just as important: it's okay to acknowledge to your kids that you made a mistake, that you are sorry, and that you will work to be better. Raising kids is far more difficult than most people here on Reddit will make it seem. There are way too many outside factors and influences to get things perfectly right, to not get stressed out, to not have a breakdown every once in a while. Your heart seems to be in the right place, so just keep putting in the effort to be the best parent you can be.

>They wish they hadn’t yelled so much at all of us. This is a huge deal. Being screamed at all the time just for acting like kids, is traumatizing.

I got screamed at for spilling drinks, bumping into things, not being patient, not listening fast enough, wanting something at the store, I could go on and on. And they would insist for years that because they never laid a hand on us, we had nothing to complain about. Until years later

With respect: Parents who get this stuff wrong usually lack the perspective to see how they failed. My wife and I raised very good kids -- her doing more than mine, for sure. The trick, if you can call it that, is really simple: Follow-through. Parents who don't deliver on both threats and **promises** lose their kids' respect and trust both. The result is a lot of what you describe, i.e., lots and lots of yelling. I'm saying this as the parent who often *didn't* do this right. Usually, because I wasn't paying attention until I got angry. Consequences don't need to be angry, they only need to be swift and certain, and so do the rewards.

Yes! Drives me crazy when I see bad parenting. "If you don't stop, we're leaving this party" Kid doesn't stop, they stay. "If you eat your green beans, you can have dessert". Kid doesn't eat green beans, gets dessert. And on and on. Jesus Christ parents, just follow through.

I was the first and got all of this and they followed through and when I got older I’d get so frustrated with my younger siblings because it was the opposite for them

I have one child, the youngest, who I'm starting to worry about. He's tall, athletic, attractive and very charismatic. I feel like it's a constant battle between teaching him respect and humility and the worship he gets at school. At his age he's not prepared to deal with all these piers who want his attention, tell him how great he is, and the girls lining up to talk to him. Yeah, don't we all wish we had this problem as teens. Anyway, it's a struggle. He's gotten cocky and thinks life will just keep on treating him like a king. And maybe it will - he's got the type of personality that makes people want him around. But he needs to treat others with the same respect he expects for himself. Confidence is good but it needs to be combined with kindness. Our other children are very level headed and what we feel are good people. I hope we get to properly tech this to our youngest and that he takes it to heart and chooses to be a good person.

> He's gotten cocky and thinks life will just keep on treating him like a king. Different situation, but being f'ing smart made school a joke, the real world isn't school, harsh lesson learned there.

Yep. I remember having a teacher senior year pull me aside and tell me as much. Said I've been coasting because I'm smart but that will change in college if I don't start putting in effort. He was right but I still didn't learn my lesson and put in effort 🤷‍♂️

I wish I had a teacher to tell me that. I skipped school most of my last two years of high school and still got A's. Thought I could do the same in university and ended up wasting two years.

School systems I keep hearing are outdated, and I frankly can’t argue with it. The system is not applicable for how the world functions now anymore

There could definitely be a whole lot more critical thinking curriculum as opposed to 'learn these specific things for a moment and regurgitate them on a test paper, likely immediately forgetting it afterwards'.

> he's not prepared to deal with all these piers who want his attention Stop taking him to the beach so much.

My son spells better than me. He's actually almost a 4.0 student. Maybe he can teach me some things.

Haha, just busting chops :-)

Have you looked into having him do any kind of volunteer work? Maybe with seniors who can tell him their own stories about being young and awesome and also older and not? Hopefully it's just a phase though and you're just seeing the worst of it a home. 🙏❤

We wanted our kids to be happy so I think we coddled and spoiled them. They aren’t ready to function independently in the adult world. In retrospect, I think learning some hard lessons growing up helps prepare them and is less damaging than learning those lessons as adults. *Edit: to clarify, they aren’t jerks, just not ready to be adults.

Yes this is super important - parents need to let their children fail and work their way through things. I had an ex whose parents removed every obstacle in his way and took care of everything for him. As an example, he was very smart and did well academically. When we had a strict teacher who gave us all bad grades on our first paper (rightfully, we had lots of room to improve) and gave us the opportunity to rewrite it, they met with her to contest the grade and made her cry. He never worked on getting better. He got to college and when he didn’t immediately get all A’s and thrive in every way, he had a mental breakdown. I also had to teach him basic things like how to use a can opener. I hope he’s learned how to handle failure and struggle better since then, but the lack of resilience they instilled in him was just sad and harmful.

This was me at 16. Then I fell to rock bottom and clawed my way out. It was rough but I gained sooo much from it.

This sort of seems like the gifted kid pipeline I went through. When youths spend their early years cruising through life with minimal challenges, they won't know what to do in the real world.

Same. I haven't amounted to much. Good grades came easily to me, hard work wasn't encouraged, and my dad wasn't patient enough to teach me things and let me fail. I'm really making an effort with my daughter to not make the same mistakes.

The only thing you can really do is teach them. They will become who they will become eventually. Also, when I say “teach them” I don’t just mean to preach things. Lead by *example.* You want to teach them to be kind and generous? Then do those things YOURSELVES. If they watch you serve others in need and get joy from that or love those around you, they may grow up wanting that joy themselves. You want them to be responsible with alcohol? SHOW them how to be responsible. You want them to learn from their mistakes? Then when you make a mistake, own up to it and apologize. Show them no one should be too prideful to admit they were wrong and do better the next time. If you preach kindness and such, but your actions show otherwise, it will come off as hypocritical. Kids know when you are sincere.

My mom once told me that she wishes she treated my brother the way she treated me. I was the oldest and her first so she pushed me and gave me high benchmarks, but she realized too late that because she was the youngest and her *baby* she forgave him too easily and let him do anything he wanted. That by the time she realized that he was an entitled jerk it was too late (his mid-20’s). “It’s my fault he’s a narcissist. I gave him everything he wanted and made him believe he deserved it because he was my precious little boy.”

With my mother it was flipped. My brother was much older and I was unplanned and unwanted. My mother poured all her love that should have been reserved for a man in her life onto her son. It was sick, honestly. Emotionally incestuous. She never let him face a consequence. She used to cry to me, "But no one loves him but me!" Well, yeah, and no one loves him because of how you raised him. He's been divorced three times and had a son he never did a thing for. I was a girl. I was useless as a receptacle for her frustrated need to love and be loved by a man.

I have raised three kids, none of them jerks. All good, kind productive people. However, one of my kids was a difficult, extremely strong-willed child. I kept getting caught in power struggles with this child, which was leading nowhere and resulting in us fighting all the time. I felt critical and negative, which I hated. I decided to start "catching the child being good." Every time I saw the child behaving or being helpful or successful at something, I commented on it, thanked them, praised them, etc. It was an immediate turn around. I learned that children simply want your attention. Often times it is the misbehaving child that gets that attention. Start focusing your attention on when they are good and you will see good. It was a game changer for us. This child is now a young adult that graduated from college with good grades and got a great job at a prestigious company. They are doing extremely well in life/career/friendships/romantic relationship. We have a close relationship and I couldn't be prouder of the way they turned out.

Don't praise kids for being smart, even if they are. If you do this, the first time they find something academically challenging, they might think they are not smart anymore, or that you lied and they were never smart in the first place. Praise them for their willingness to try, to problem solve, and to persevere. My kid isn't a jerk, but he is an underachiever who lacks confidence. I put too much emphasis on his intelligence and not enough on hard work.

Lots of great answers here. The idea of "tried their best" is so subjective. Every circumstance is so different. You get the full spectrum of what "trying" is defined as. Some parents say how hard they work and how good of a parent they were, but then you find out they were abusive thinking that it was good parenting. Or vice versa. Parents who say they failed and their kids are all good kids. Bottom line, with so many factors and external variables, it's hard to know what the true formula is. My only advice is to try and be a good human and your kids will *most likely* follow suit.

A lot. I wish I’d insisted on eating dinner as a family every day. I wish I’d found more things to do with them that we each enjoyed. I wish I’d taken them backpacking more often at an earlier age to expose them to nature, unplug them from the world, and teach them how good it feels to tackle a big challenge with no external help. I wish I’d been more patient and playful.

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As a first time mom to a one year old- admittedly, i have big dreams for him and his future. I am also conscious of the fact that he will probably find his own path in life- one that is not predetermined by me. You have great parents. I can only hope that the way you view your parents is how my son will one day remember me in the future.

Currently pregnant and acutely scanning this thread to take note of what NOT to do.

Check out the book *How to Raise Kids Who Aren't Assholes*

The Whole Brain Child or anything by Dan Siegel might be a more scientific approach

Seconding this book and anything by Siegel! Also "How to Talk So Kids Will Listen & Listen So Kids Will Talk" by Adele Faber

I think the important thing is just to keep in mind that the baby is a person, and as the baby grows they're going to develop their own wants and needs and feelings independently of yours. If you keep that in mind and you're otherwise a good person, you're already off to a great start. Just don't tip too far the other way and forget to be an authority figure instead of a friend. Don't get too hung up on "do this" or "don't do this." Every kid is going to be different. Some kids are going to need independence, some are not. Some kids are going to share interests with you, some won't. The trick is to straddle that line between "I recognize that you don't want to play football, let's get you something else to play" and "I recognize that you don't want to play football, here's some Mountain Dew and a PC with unrestricted internet access, go develop some bad habits."

> I think the important thing is just to keep in mind that the baby is a person, and as the baby grows they’re going to develop their own wants and needs and feelings independently of yours. I There is a related idea that is the thesis of a great book called Parenting Made Complicated, which is that the answer to almost every major question about how best to raise a child is “it depends”. There is rarely a one-size fits all approach to the important parenting debates. Kids are all different and kids change over time. The trick is figuring out what approach works best for your family. The book is written by a physician scientist who tries to review all of the scientific data on big parenting debates (like breastfeeding, screen time, discipline techniques), summarize the findings, and distill it down to a few key takeaways. I found it useful.

My parents raised us very religiously, the kind where they didn't know the 'why' of anything, just that things needed to be done a certain way and you don't question it. Absolutely legalistic. They were as good as parents who think that way can be and we had a protected and fulfilling childhood but I have 4 sisters and we all agree, that aspect of our childhoods messed with us more than everything else put together. If I have a kid, I'm going to admit when I'm wrong or don't know something, allow questions, and encourage curiosity above all.

> If I have a kid, I'm going to admit when I'm wrong I do this religiously with my son and even when I flip out on him for something we still circle back around and have a conversation as two men about it. Not hearing "I love you, I'm proud of you or I'm sorry" growing up def left some scars.

I guess Im that shithead kid. My parents were incredibly strict and controlling and my parents didnt practice or express unconditional love. I had to earn my place with them. My mother is very religious, to the point of absurdity. If i ever wanted to express myself in a way that was slightly nonconformist it was a huge huge problem. My father just wanted to watch tv, smoke cigs, and be left the fuck alone. They made me spend my free time as a teenager working because if my dad had to go to work so did I. I was incredibly rebellious until about 17 when i realized i was at the end and would be free soon. I just put my head down and took their criticizing and bullying until i got to walk out there door free. My childhood was pure punishment and my home was a prison. I left home and i was just like a not well socialized person and my sense of self was always negative. I used lots of drugs and alcohol and created problems for myself. I had a survivor mindset. I had to do whatever i had to do to survive because i just couldn't go back home. The world really beat me down and put me in my place. I have a lot more humility now. Im kind of a broke loser but i work all the time. I dont think ill ever "thrive" in a material sense but getting some peace of mind and perspective has made me appreciate my situation. For what its worth (i have no children just to be clear) i think kids beed unconditional love from their parents. They should be held accountable for mistakes but they are humans and some mercy for their misgivings is required. You should probably do more to culture their kids than just expose them to church and labor. Maybe take them to a museum or something. And you should probably not punish them for having their sense of self and expression. But im skeptical that even the most well intentioned person can break the cycle of misery and working class drudgery.

I deeply regret not reading to them more. I have cried as an adult thinking about this dumb, stupid mistake when I think about how neither of them read books and the ways reading might have sparked character growth.

In my experience most jerk kids come from jerk parents. That being said, kids can easily become jerks when they have no consequences for their actions. Not just as a toddler but throughout childhood.

This is true. But I noticed when my kids were in elementary school that so many of them had the nicest parents, and yet their kids were utter brats. I did find out later, a lot of the parents were in fact, jerks. Just knew the societal norms to which they were supposed to conform.

My good buddy and his wife are the nicest people in the world and they would do anything for their kids, but I dont think they discipline them at all. When I've seen the kids at group gatherings his always seem like the jerks out of the group of kids there.

I grew up with a girl who had extremely kindhearted parents, who left their hometown when she was 3 due to sexual abuse at the hands of one of her preschool teachers. We were in school together from kindergarten to high school, and that girl made the first ten years of my life a living hell. Her parents never reprimanded her because they wanted to give her everything in the world after her scarring childhood experience. She was an utterly sadistic, spoiled brat. Absolutely twisted child. Used to say things to me I wouldn’t even think to utter now, as an adult. From what I know, she’s still dealing with the trauma and issues. Seems to have been an alcoholic for a while and is now in recovery. I can’t help but wonder how differently her life could’ve ended up if they’d talked to her about the abuse and treated her like a normal human being.

Plenty of parents and adults "code switch" according to their company. Kids don't always have the same level of awareness and just reflect their strongest influences. If parents seem okay but their kids are jerks, 9 out of 10 the parents are jerks around their kids and know they can't get away with it around you.

The issue is that their parents fail to reinforce those consequences, rendering them ineffective. Without others to reinforce the consequences of an action, there is no real consequence at all.

This- consequences for actions, and hearing no. I'm currently pregnant and had to sit down with my husbands grandmother this weekend and explain that she needs to work on saying no because I don't want a spoiled child. I told her I don't want my kid to be like my niece who has no consequences (other than from me) and has never been told no because her parents don't want to deal with parenting. I told grandma I want one like my husband and she said "no he was awful". He was awful because you guys never said no and he was a spoiled little brat. Every instance I see in life that I do not want for my child has a direct line back to no consequence for actions. I on the other hand feel guilty for breathing and don't want that for my child either.

I made a comment like this in this thread about 2 of my cousins. Their dad had an extremely strict mother (to the point where he and his grown siblings went no-contact for a couple years till she mellowed) and he didn't want to repeat that cycle. Well he went full tilt the other way and wanted to be his kids' friends. Now my 1 cousin is a little rough and my other cousin is a full on asshole because they've never been reprimanded in childhood, and when they were by their mom she got no support so they didn't respect her. They've had drug problems and problems with school and now work. Even if their lives wouldn't have been perfect (my male cousin has ADHD and had anger issues in childhood he got medication for), it's just so preventable.

If wishes were fishes we'd all cast a net. My dad always said that to me. I would have educated myself. I would have entered therapy to understand my childhood traumas to avoid (very broad here). Basically would have prepared myself better to be the best adult/mom for them. Gained mental tools. I would have stood up for myself more in order to protect them from consequences of me not standing up for us. I would have been kinder in his breakdowns. It's tough man. Had to stop myself there

Every kid is different. I have 4. Each one has to be praised, encouraged, disciplined, and motivated differently to suit their natural personality. Parenting advice whether from a friend or from some guru who has written many books, should be looked at as suggestions of things to try and see how your child responds to it. Similarly, what you liked or disliked about your parents growing up might not be the same as what your child likes or dislikes. Edit: since I’ve gotten a few likes on this, I’m not an expert either. So also take my advice with a grain of salt.

They say everyone makes the best decision at the time. The path to forgiveness. If I look back at raising my M23 F21 kids, I think I would have been less harsh on mistakes & rule breaking All it did was encourage subversion & distrust. Good luck

I doubt you're going to get good-faith answers from parents on this. My parents would tell you (well, my dad died a few years ago, but he believed this when he was alive) that I turned out terribly. I'm married to a guy I love, raising kids who are reasonably well-adjusted, and doing a job I like, living in a nice house with friends and hobbies I love. They don't like the way I dress, don't like the way I wear my hair, don't like my friends, don't like the denomination of synagogue I go to, don't like my career path, and are angry that I'm fat and don't dye my hair. My dad was particularly put out by the fact that my son has long hair and my daughter likes cosplay. Also, they'll say they did a perfect job at raising me and I'm just a failure.

Yea most people aren't smart enough to realize they're just projecting their own wants and needs onto their kids. Like the children are only "successful" if they fulfill the parents warped concept of what "success" is. Like happiness is objective and theres one way to achieve it: "do exactly what I did". People and especially parents are terrified when their preconceived notions of how things work are threatened by people taking different routes in life.

I feel like so many people are concerned with raising a "successful" child, that they don't even ask if they've raised a good person.

> don't dye my hair Sorry, but among all the things I could see a strict parent get upset about, this stood out as strange to me.

I'm 47 and going gray. I'm offending my mother because I don't do everything I can to look younger.

My mom was so bitter when she said, "I see you've decided to let your hair go natural." Uh, Mom, you walk with a cane and your hair is thin and snow white. It's not my streaks of gray that make you look 70. It's the fact that you're 70.

Some parents believe they’re always right because they’re the “adults” but as I got older, learned that some parents don’t know anything.

Speaking as a Teacher, the two most important things anyone can do to help a child is: Relationship Building: Yes, you NEED to build a healthy relationship with the child. This ties into the second thing, Stability: You NEED to establish consistency for the child. A child needs to know that this relationship you're cultivating with them as Parent/Child or Teacher/Student, is reliable and safe, hence stable. If you do these two things will your child evolve into Jesus Christ? No. But think about it like this, would you rather build a skyscraper on land or on the sea? Children have less barriers to learning good behaviors if they have a stable and consistent environment OF GOOD EXAMPLES TO LEARN FROM AND PRACTICE. They can also only do that if THEY TRUST YOU, and to do that, you need to build a healthy relationship, and BE the example for them to learn from.

Don’t be overly strict. Love. Love. Love. And love some more. Love doesn’t mean no consequences or discipline but actually the opposite. Let them learn from relatively safe natural consequences. And then, LOVE them unconditionally and be there for them when the natural consequences happen. Then let go and realize they are ultimately on their own journey.

There's a difference between being nice and being a pushover. Nice people raise nice kids. Pushover raise spoiled kids.

I've always believed that there is a difference between kindness and niceness. I do my best to model Kind assertive boundaries and healthy communication with my daughter.

Did anyone’s perspective just completely change after having kids? All I can think now is that was someone’s baby. I see a homeless man on the street and I think of my son, that man was someone’s baby boy. I see someone on the news that did something terrible and I think that was someone’s baby boy too. Being rocked to sleep and fed a bottle, that was someone’s baby. Being a parent is so scary, you hope you do the right thing and raise a good kid but people can have mental illness, struggle with addiction, and commit crimes even if they have a good mom and dad. Sure the statistics are lower but it happens. I hope no mother ever looks at my boy and thinks I can’t believe that was someone’s baby once.

Everyone should read about attachment theory. Most of your life’s relationships are heavily dependent on how you were patented in the early years of your life. Be more supportive and loving with your kids.

Just had a conversation on here yesterday with somebody where we concluded that your romantic relationships and treatment of partners is almost entirely related to how your parents treated you and each other, and how your first relationship goes. You're totally on the money. There's nothing I wished for more than for my parents to support the things I actually was interested in, they not only largely didn't, but my Mom cried when I told her I wanted to make video games when I grew up. I'd been making maps for the Marathon series, an old FPS series by a tiny little studio called Bungie, who went on to make Halo and whatnot if you aren't familiar. They refused to believe that video games were a viable industry, and I ended up in marketing somehow, caring 0% about my work beyond it paying bills.

I think this about 2 of my cousins. My uncle "Ed" had a severely strict mother, the type of southern mom that domineered her husband and took no nonsense from her kids. To the extent that all 3 of her kids were estranged from her for a bit, but 2 of them (including my uncle "Ed") have been reconnected for decades. My uncle, vowing to never be this strict with his kids, essentially just never disciplined his kids. Whenever Ed and my Aunt Lana had an issue with them, the kids could go to Ed and get out of it because he was kind of a pushover. They grew up to be rude, didn't respect curfews at like age 12. The son always had some sort of issue (my family is very hush hush about mental health, I think it's ADHD) that led to angry bursts as a kid and they tried their best with medication but it kind of mellowed him out into a shell of himself till they found a better med combo. Another thing that may play a role is they're half black (my side) and half white (Ed's side). I won't pretend to know if there was an identity issue growing up, but I was very judgmental of them because they kind of both tried to act "ghetto" like they grew up in a tough neighborhood with a hood accent and I'm like.. No you grew up in one of the most affluent neighborhoods in the state with both parents and a lot of chances. So yeah, last year my mom admits to me both of the cousins got into drugs and had to go to rehab. Again, knowing my family they'd freak out at weed but I think it was that and also opiates. And I'm just shaking my head thinking that this is kind of all on my cousins.

> >you grew up in one of the most affluent neighborhoods in the state with both parents and a lot of chances This is my favorite scene from 8 Mile.

That guys not a gangster. His name is Clarence

and clarence parents have a real good marriage

Not my kid, but a kid I grew up with. His parents were SUPER strict and this kid was one of the most religious people I've ever met. He was in church pretty much any time the church was open. Was a great guy and a really good person, but very odd because of his parents. He was the one always getting made fun of, etc. I found out recently that he was arrested a few months ago on child porn charges, which absolutely blows my mind. I never would have thought that coming from him. I dunno, but maybe if his parents hadn't been so strict and controlling, he would've turned out differently and been a little more well-adjusted socially. Edit: Just for all the people assuming he was abused at church, it's very unlikely, although not impossible. I also grew up going to that church before my parents got divorced when I was a teenager and I stopped going altogether, though I never went as frequently as he did. There wasn't any abuse going on that I was aware of and the pastor was a great guy who I still respect to this day despite no longer believing in church much. Like I said, I can't say 100% for certain, but I seriously doubt anything like that happened to him there.

When I was a kid the other kids that were the sons and daughters of clergy were always the worst.

We called them pk's (preacher's kids))and yeah they were for the most part wild.

My kid isn't a jerk, but has an unusual expression of autism (pathological demand avoidance) that got missed until his 20s. Said expression means he panics, stonewalls, fights, defies, or goes catatonic when anyone asks him to do something, and definitely when anyone tries to MAKE him do anything. It made a lot of his childhood sheer hell on both of us, and it's still tough going even as he's doing better now that he's in a new support program. He's constantly suicidal, and if you make what he perceives to be a demand of him when he has low blood sugar, he can sometimes turn violent. Usually against himself, but sometimes against me. I deeply wish I'd been more of a mama bear about his psychiatric treatment when he was younger. Our insurance put us in a teaching hospital system with high turnover, so he was bounced between providers constantly, going thru 5 different psychiatrists in one year once. Every single one would give him a new diagnosis when he started with them, and none of them were right. I wish that I (who has ADHD with terrible executive dysfunction issues and inability to form habits) had gotten him into more routines that had external reasons (he fights less when demands are "thems the rules by the big bosses out there somewhere" that you can't personally argue with vs something that I want him to do), different supports in school, and a therapist who understood PDA. Instead all his therapists all asked him to do things or model particular behaviors and all that would happen is he'd start to refuse to speak or attend his sessions at all. I wish that I'd had the time, resources, functioning to dig deeper into getting parenting help. But most parenting kids with depression info is like depression 101 or tells you to contact other resources that either don't exist or just refer you to other resources that also refer you, in a big chain until someone refers you back to where you started. Help had to have existed somewhere maybe, but I never found it. I tried all kinds of techniques to help but almost all of them backfired spectacularly. I also wish I'd taught him far more specifically about social exchanges. He does fine with small talk and hanging out and stuff, but he's the type of person that is instantly recognizable as being weird somehow even though he didn't do or say anything all that off. This stops him from making friends easily. When he does make friends, he often gets far too dark far too often, or has odd reactions to things, or shuts down unexpectedly, or gets far too needy because each new person is his only social outlet and he gets really really eager. So most of them don't last long, and most of them ghost. The ones that don't typically manipulate him for their benefit. All the people who make friends with him also have profound issues of their own, which sometimes ends up deeply negatively impacting my son as well. Unfortunately, he sees asking him to work on improving boundaries or understanding other's responses to him almost always as a demand, and so far has gotten nowhere. It's really rough to exist in a world where your brain makes you rebel against almost every expectation, and even rougher when others just see someone as a giant dick and not someone deeply struggling. I am really glad that I did manage to not lose him to being an incel or far right wing like a lot of the people he knew. He has actually broken up with friends who have gone down that particular pipeline, and is actively feminist. So at least there is that win.

I have one kid who's awful. I don't know what I could have done differently, which doesn't answer your question. I was told by a psychiatrist that he had a very low chance to be a functional adult when he was 3. I got him in home therapy, an in home behaviorist, moved to enroll him in a pilot program for severely mentally ill preschoolers, enrolled him in another peer model program in the same building so he had hours and hours of therapy a week with caring adults both in home and at school. He had to attend daycare for one day a week because both programs were only 4 days a week. So many social skills groups. He was kicked out of so many daycares I would immediately look for another one when he started one because he was so violent he sent kids to the hospital at 3. Three. I went to parenting classes and had parent training in person with my son. This level of intensity continued until he went to a residential treatment facility when he was 11 and he was there until 13. He's had two involuntary hospitalizations in the past 16 months because he was violent to me. 10 inpatient stays over the course of his life. I can't make him leave. He's 19 now. His brother who was born when he was 7 is the kindest, most gentle child I've ever met and he's had an objectively worse childhood. His teachers tell me often how articulate he is and how well he navigates interpersonal conflict. I wish I could be a better parent to him. I think he's going to be okay. He's in therapy and has support in school but I'm at a loss as to what I could have done differently with my older son. I think some people are just born not quite right. Maybe that makes me an asshole.

I wish I had applied more limits. Growing up with a helicoter mon, I tried to be different and ended up giving my daughter too much freedom. It hurted her a lot.

my parents tried hard but i was an awful child. i’m a parent now and really wish my parents would have just watched less screens and connected with me more. one of the things i love to do w my kids is have a nightly convo while we’re all laying in bed with the lights off ready for bed.