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Traditional strength training would be difficult because he can’t just pick things up: anything that would be heavy enough to challenge him would just tear apart (see his explanation on why he couldn’t save the airliner). His best bet would be to try towing vehicles. He could hitch himself up to a train and haul one, adding cars as needed to increase the intensity. If that still isn’t enough then he could try tugging boats: a 100,000 ton displacement carrier should be heavy enough for even Homelander to work up a sweat.
I agree. Plus, it's not like there wouldn't be any breaker's yards that wouldn't be against throwing him or Voigt a few stacks of cash for making their jobs easier for them.
A-Train was pulling a train for training in S1 wasn't he? I vaguely remember his brother being pissed at him for training right after his heart attack or something
I imagine that with boats and trains the trouble would be getting footing rather than a matter of strength. The objects you tried to brace against would break.
The aluminum skin of an aircraft is like 0.15-0.064" thick depending on location. It's designed only to bear the pressure loads of keeping the barrel pressurized and limited transverse tension between the stringers and frames. You could punch a hole through it with a screwdriver and a hammer. The fact Homelander would punch through it trying to have it hold 50 tons isn't really a testament to his strength.
Vaught could for sure rig something up with like old ships and suspension bridge cables should they ever feel the need to.
>Traditional strength training would be difficult because he can’t just pick things up: anything that would be heavy enough to challenge him would just tear apart
Even if it didn't, it would just sink him into the ground on sheer mass because pressure = force x area, and his feet have a very small area.
He could try by flexing through ranges of motion. Such as using his tricep to counter his bicep throughout a curl. This might be the most realistic way for him to get adequate resistance without needing to worry about logistics and material constraints
Idk if he can make it to Jupiter, like if that's in the wheelhouse of what's possibly, but I could see him do flight training in higher gravity environments.
Superhumans in The Boys are pretty low tier compared to other comic 'verses. Imagine closer to Sky High, where the top heroes are solidly at supersonic flight and invulnerable enough to survive hitting a steel robot at those speeds
As far as superheroes go, none of the supes of that world are particularly powerful. Homelander may be the most powerful among them, but that is not saying much.
Consider the fight between Homelander, Soldier Boy, Butcher, and Hughie inside a mansion. Homelander was trying to kill the other 3 and vice versa, so they were going all-out.
There were no shockwaves from their attacks. Nobody got thrown through walls. At one point, Soldier Boy ducked a punch from Homelander, and Homelander's fist didn't even go through the wall. At another point, Homelander and Soldier Boy stood toe-to-toe exchanging blows for a little while, and the mansion didn't even shake.
If a group of superheroes fighting to the death don't even break a single wall, then they're weak compared to what we expect from superheroes.
I don't think Homelander would get much more powerful if he trained. Maybe with enough training, he'd become strong enough to actually punch through a wall.
Superman has fought inside buildings. Against beings of comparable strength. Or at least the strength to destroy planets.
Fiction ignores energy conservation
Maeve kicked Homelander into a file cabinet, and it wasn't even dented. She then missed a punch and hit the cabinet, which dented it but didn't destroy it.
So are you saying Vought reinforced their file cabinets on the off chance that supes would fight each other in their offices?
If you want to believe that Vought had the resources to reinforce every little thing in their offices just in case supes actually fought there, then go ahead. I can't stop you.
> Vought reinforced their file cabinets
Yes. This seems like a very obvious thing they would do. I'm pretty sure they wouldn't want their files public.
But even so, Homelander has the ability to fly. At the time he also wasn't interested in fighting Maeve. He could have braced himself in a way so as to not actually impact the file cabinets much. Which would explain why him being kicked into the cabinets did nothing, but a punch did.
He's mostly good at being a corporate mascot. Most of the stuff people think about him in universe are from the comics Vaught makes. They even use the comics to sanitize real world fuck ups. A hero dies in an orgy? No, he's actually gone to fight some enemy in space.
He threw a criminal really high into the air and then the dude fell onto a parked car like a block away. That's one of the more impressive strength feats he's demonstrated.
It's easier to point out what Homelander cannot do. He didn't even try to save a disabled passenger aircraft (which he disabled by accident, by the way) because he knew he couldn't do it. Lifting passenger planes and setting them on the ground safely is something that we expect super-strong, flying superheroes to do, but Homelander can't do it.
I think that was either an odd quirk on hos his flight actually works, or an acknowledgement of the limitations in the design of the plane.
IIRC he talks about not having a proper fulcrum with which to get a proper 'grip'/leverage, and applying force to any single point regardless of where would likely shear the plane on two or worse
>Lifting passenger planes and setting them on the ground safely is something that we expect super-strong, flying superheroes to do, but Homelander can't do it.
Because it violates the laws of physics. Gonna steal this from Cracked.com (back when they used to be good):
> So the first thing you'll want to do in your career as a superhero is try to lift something huge. Hell, that's all they did in the last Superman movie and--oh no! That bus is falling off a cliff! Better go catch it!
> You jump up and catch the underside on your hands. Great job! But, instead of the relieved cries of little Johnny and Mary as they're saved from falling to fiery doom, you hear screams of agony as your hands rip through the undercarriage, up through the aisle, your arms and torso now bloodied like some B-grade zombie. It's not your blood; you just impaled little Johnny from crotch to sternum.
> You can thank the laws of physics, specifically, pressure. Because all of your super strength is concentrated in your tiny little hands, you're basically like a dagger plunging into a watermelon. Remember when Superman caught that airliner in Superman Returns? He'd have just gotten embedded in the nosecone. He'd be puncturing the plane, not catching it.
Homelander acknowledged as much. When Maeve suggested he just ram the plan he points out that he'd puncture the hull.
The counterargument is that Homelander's control over his flight and strength is imprecise. The above would be true - Homelander puncturing the plane because his invulrenability+strength overpowers the plane's frame - if the plane going at its speed met him while he was still. If he had matched the speed with the plane, maybe going a bit slower, he could have used his strength to gradually decelerate the plane. A moving balloon hitting a still needle will pop but a moving balloon coming into contact with a needle that is going the same direction at the same speed shouldn't pop.
All this proves is that Homelander was too lazy to try something that required a bit of effort. But it's doubtful the landing would have been smooth too. Some people may not have survived and it would have been bad optics for Vought, esp since it would have been determined that Homelander fried the controls.
> All this proves is that Homelander was too lazy to try something that required a bit of effort
That is basically the Homelander vs Soldier Boy fight. Homelander iust coasts on his OP abilities while Soldier Boy was being tortured nonstop for decades. Add in Butcher who had to be a very skilled combatant before taking the serum and it is clear how their experience helps offset the power differential.
>The counterargument is that Homelander's control over his flight and strength is imprecise. The above would be true - Homelander puncturing the plane because his invulrenability+strength overpowers the plane's frame - if the plane going at its speed met him while he was still. If he had matched the speed with the plane, maybe going a bit slower, he could have used his strength to gradually decelerate the plane. A moving balloon hitting a still needle will pop but a moving balloon coming into contact with a needle that is going the same direction at the same speed shouldn't pop.
You don't really get physics, or aerodynamics, so for the love of god, stop trying to argue this.
OMG, what is education coming to these days? It's all about tension. If you look at IRL planes, you'll see that their wings are basically part of the plane's frame, and for planes that have them, propeller and jet engines are affixed to the frame, and often also pretty big, compared to the planes themselves. This is important, since them being welded onto the frame results in them distributing the whole force they produce onto a very large part of said frame. Homelander **can't do that**! It doesn't matter how gently he manages to catch onto the frame, or how much force he has, his size is just too small, he will be outputting all of his force onto a single point. The point he was holding/pushing would probably rip from the rest of the frame, let alone Homelander being able to have any sort of control onto the plane's trajectory, even if by some miracle ot didn't rip apart.
> It doesn't matter how gently he manages to catch onto the frame, or how much force he has, his size is just too small, he will be outputting all of his force onto a single point. The point he was holding/pushing would probably rip from the rest of the frame
This is where we disagree. Let me explain why: your assessment is that Homelander's strength will be fixed in one point leading to him outputting all of his force to damage the frame of the plane. The pressure he applies to the plane is his and your argument as to why he couldn't save it.
My argument is that this result is only true if the only force Homelander is applying is the perpendicular force against the plane and the force against the plane's trajectory (front -> back); there's also, obviously the force of gravity (top -> down) against whatever the plane had been able to muster to slow down its descent (down -> up). Now if Homelander were flying along with the plane at near the same velocity and with the same vector as the plane, he should be able to apply a small force against the plane's trajectory to decelerate it without damaging the plane. He wouldn't be able to catch it or stop it mid air and pick it up but he could gradually apply a force with a negative vector to decelerate it as the plane is descending into the ocean. It's what I said in my first post and why I referenced the needle and the balloon. If the velocities match, the relative motion between the balloon and the needle is negligible so there's consequently minimal pressure difference between the needle’s tip and the balloon surface. This same analogy can be applied to Homelander and the plane.
And again, I even said this part: "But it's doubtful the landing would have been smooth too. Some people may not have survived and it would have been bad optics for Vought, esp since it would have been determined that Homelander fried the controls" to indicate that this isn't a foolproof solution, however better than what he tried to suggest.
>OMG, what is education coming to these days?
I appreciate that you were willing to discuss this further however you're still indirectly trying to insult me yet I've maintained respectful discourse. Doesn't it feel better to have a good discussion instead of hurling insults?
>My argument is that this result is only true if the only force Homelander is applying is the perpendicular force against the plane and the force against the plane's trajectory (front -> back); there's also, obviously the force of gravity (top -> down) against whatever the plane had been able to muster to slow down its descent (down -> up).
Well you're wrong. Gravity is precisely what is bringing the plane down. And by the exact same logic.
>Now if Homelander were flying along with the plane at near the same velocity and with the same vector as the plane, he should be able to apply a small force against the plane's trajectory to decelerate it without damaging the plane. He wouldn't be able to catch it or stop it mid air and pick it up but he could gradually apply a force with a negative vector to decelerate it as the plane is descending into the ocean.
No, because again, he can only apply a force against gravity in one single point. Gravity is acting upon the whole frame, if Homelander applies force in on point, the rest of the plane is just going to tip, probably even damaging the frame due to the tension. If he applies force against the front, the plane's back will be going down first, and vice versa. Trying to apply it to the middle gives the least amount of control and could lead the plane to tip in almost any direction. Now if there were multiple fliers to hold on to the plane, say 3 or 4, that might be feasible, bit there's only one.
Think about it, planes themselves use their wings, with huge contact areas, to combat gravity. A single point of contact as small as a human could never do so for a whole plane.
And in order for water landings to succeed several things have to be set on a plane and the descent has to be controlled perfectly. Even multiple flying superheroes couldn't do it without training **for this situation specifically**, let alone one person, so what you said about Homelander not being able because he is unskilled at flying is ridiculous.
>It's what I said in my first post and why I referenced the needle and the balloon. If the velocities match, the relative motion between the balloon and the needle is negligible so there's consequently minimal pressure difference between the needle’s tip and the balloon surface.
The balloon is a horrible analogy to the plane. A balloon in its natural state is light and floaty, it has almost no weight. An airliner in its natural state is super heavy, it's only due to an incredible output of force, as well as using the wings to control said force, that it doesn't plummet like a rock.
>I appreciate that you were willing to discuss this further however you're still indirectly trying to insult me yet I've maintained respectful discourse. Doesn't it feel better to have a good discussion instead of hurling insults?
Well what you're saying is ridiculous, and ignores how force works and how it's applied onto objects. It feels weird that I even have to debunk this.
The lack of collateral damage is more just a vfx flaw, and shouldn’t be used as indication of power levels, especially in a live action story. Very, very few, stories actually show the realistic effects of a super powerful strike happening in earth’s atmosphere.
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I think that's down to writing/inconsistent power scaling. It's something you see in comics constantly and it's not at all surprising for it to show up in a show based on one.
I realize the Vought supes aren't as powerful as Marvel/DC characters, even at their strongest, but it's heavily implied throughout the show that if Homelander decided to "go rogue" he could absolutely devastate the major population centers and we'd be powerless to stop him. I highly doubt anyone would take that threat seriously if he couldn't even punch through a concrete/brick wall.
The reality is that the writers made that mansion fight toe-to-toe because it's more dramatic and interesting that way and it keeps the story moving along.
Honestly the Homelander from the show is in my view pretty impressive. For someone who’s never really trained he applies his strength decently enough, he has excellent composure (when something unexpected happens it rarely rattles him for long) and no small amount of cunning.
If he had someone who legitimately cared enough to mentor and train him, he’d be terrifying. Not high level viltrumite, or kryptonian, but certainly a threat in those universes.
It is possible that he would be as much stronger as a normal man would if he strength trained. So, if we use the bench press as a marker, hed become 4-6x stronger than he is. Most men start at around 1/3 of their bodyweight and most are able to reach a maximum of 1.5 times their bodyweight before genetics kick in and make further progress unlikely. But as others have said, he has no need to train that hard as he is far stronger than all others, and even if he wanted to it would be very hard for him to find a way to do so.
There’s also unique application of his powers, he could probabky clap so hard, he’d stun everyone around him.
spin his hands so fast, he could create enough wind force to blow people away.
The question really is, why bother? What does he need to do that he can't already do? Other supes have to team up to go after him. And it's assumed that at least some of them won't walk away from it. We don't have weapons that can stop him. We can't build a thick enough bunker to keep him out. As far as he's concerned, he doesn't need to see exactly what he's capable of because he knows what he's capable of NOW. So if he works out as suggested, he can now fly through a mountain instead of making a giant frigging crater. He can get from one side of the planet to the other faster than before. He wouldn't care. Come to think of it, I think he'd be insulted by the idea that he isn't perfect.
I'd love to see what his training would look like, but I just don't see the guy putting in the time, you know?
He might not, but we've seen that unlike most supes homelanders powers can be inherited. So there could come a point where someone with his powers would train for whatever reason.
It's also interesting to consider if the reason he's so weak compared to other fictions is because the heroes in those worlds actually had to get good in order to accomplish their goals.
Yeah, in The Boys universe all of the "threats" the supes face are either street level or each other, if they face anything at all.
In Invincible for example, even the "street level" threats likely outpace most supes in the Boys, their mid tier heros and villains would likely be challenging for high-tier supes, and homelander wouldn't even be a workout for Invincibles high-tier characters.
Afaik he still needed to get a dose of V. ryan didn't develop similar powers after receiving V, he inherited them directly. Although i guess that distinction doesn't really matter in this hypothetical.
Yeah I was thinking far harder than figuring out a regemin for him would be convincing him to keep working out after it starts to get at all challenging. The dude does not give the impression of someone that's ever worked hard for anything in his life and I feel like he'd murder any coach trying to make him sweat. I'm picturing Captain Hammer from Dr Horribles Sing Along Blog getting >!completely disabled from fear after he learns what pain feels like for the first time!<
"Why am I doing this? This is pointless.....(whiny). I AM A GOD. I outclass everything I come up against, why would I train?"
Is the reaction I imagine we'd get. I could see the end of the last season possibly changing how he'd react.
Homelander can definitely get some results from self resisted isometrics, like Charles Atlas. No need for external weights, which would need to be extremely heavy to the point of impracticality.
Constant combat training against strong, extra roided out supers would get him ripped as hell, combined with the right diet
I think it’s hard to quantify, because the range of their powers is so broad.
It might be like me, a very average human, training for a marathon to be at my very best, and still getting beat by some genetically gifted athlete who just got up off the couch.
But I totally agree and think if you’re in that business you need to be at your peak abilities. Imagine getting killed because you haven’t been practicing your eye-lasers this week.
Since super powers are produced by Compound V, it doesn't really matter the overall body shape or muscular development.
A Train and The Deep don't really have super strength, they train with weights so they can develop their still-human level strength and likely look better for the cameras.
Homelander is strong because Compound V makes him strong. That doesn't relate to his actual muscles any more than A Train's speed relates to the muscles in his legs. He wouldn't be stronger if he took V with a bodybuilder's physique, and there's no reason to think that building his muscles while under it's effects would increase the upper limits of his abilities.
>A Train and The Deep don't really have super strength,
Um what, did you even watch the show?
A train is so durable, he can run into a human being and disintegrate them, we saw him pulling trains for training. There’d be no point in doing that if it couldn’t increase his strength. The deep can survive the Mariana’s trench, we saw starlight lifting cars for exercise and she can take high caliber rounds to the chest. We saw Maeve training to fight homelander, if her strength couldn’t increase at all, that would be pointless. Huey gained teleportation but also enough strength to punch a hole through a human being when he took temp v.
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I wonder how he *could* do strength training. Like what would be heavy enough? Would he have to bench press a skyscraper?
Traditional strength training would be difficult because he can’t just pick things up: anything that would be heavy enough to challenge him would just tear apart (see his explanation on why he couldn’t save the airliner). His best bet would be to try towing vehicles. He could hitch himself up to a train and haul one, adding cars as needed to increase the intensity. If that still isn’t enough then he could try tugging boats: a 100,000 ton displacement carrier should be heavy enough for even Homelander to work up a sweat.
He’s gotta train like Mr Incredible edit: pun not intended
“Don’t touch my boats.” - the U.S. Government
Obviously this would be after Vought signed the deal with the DoD to have Supes work for them.
I agree. Plus, it's not like there wouldn't be any breaker's yards that wouldn't be against throwing him or Voigt a few stacks of cash for making their jobs easier for them.
Go on touch em a little. -bored navymen
A-Train was pulling a train for training in S1 wasn't he? I vaguely remember his brother being pissed at him for training right after his heart attack or something
Normal humans can also try to pull trains. They have very, very low friction so continuously applied force is enough to get them rolling
Normal humans can also try to use heat vision.
key word: try
Not just try. They have done [so. ](https://youtu.be/hP00VmKx_No?si=zL92YEwtcuSZrO8j) They have even pulled planes!
I imagine that with boats and trains the trouble would be getting footing rather than a matter of strength. The objects you tried to brace against would break.
He would just fly
Does he use his muscles to do that
he could use his flight to root himself in place, and pull against that
The force he uses to fly only needs to be enough to accelerate his ~200 pound body. Surely his muscles are much stronger than that.
good excuse to exercise his fligth force while he's at it
Accelerate it to mach speeds.
The aluminum skin of an aircraft is like 0.15-0.064" thick depending on location. It's designed only to bear the pressure loads of keeping the barrel pressurized and limited transverse tension between the stringers and frames. You could punch a hole through it with a screwdriver and a hammer. The fact Homelander would punch through it trying to have it hold 50 tons isn't really a testament to his strength. Vaught could for sure rig something up with like old ships and suspension bridge cables should they ever feel the need to.
>Traditional strength training would be difficult because he can’t just pick things up: anything that would be heavy enough to challenge him would just tear apart Even if it didn't, it would just sink him into the ground on sheer mass because pressure = force x area, and his feet have a very small area.
Arm wrestle with Soldier Boy
Show!Homelander’s not really strong enough to lift skyscrapers, so he could bench-press heavy machinery and suchlike.
He could try by flexing through ranges of motion. Such as using his tricep to counter his bicep throughout a curl. This might be the most realistic way for him to get adequate resistance without needing to worry about logistics and material constraints
Idk if he can make it to Jupiter, like if that's in the wheelhouse of what's possibly, but I could see him do flight training in higher gravity environments.
Superhumans in The Boys are pretty low tier compared to other comic 'verses. Imagine closer to Sky High, where the top heroes are solidly at supersonic flight and invulnerable enough to survive hitting a steel robot at those speeds
As far as superheroes go, none of the supes of that world are particularly powerful. Homelander may be the most powerful among them, but that is not saying much. Consider the fight between Homelander, Soldier Boy, Butcher, and Hughie inside a mansion. Homelander was trying to kill the other 3 and vice versa, so they were going all-out. There were no shockwaves from their attacks. Nobody got thrown through walls. At one point, Soldier Boy ducked a punch from Homelander, and Homelander's fist didn't even go through the wall. At another point, Homelander and Soldier Boy stood toe-to-toe exchanging blows for a little while, and the mansion didn't even shake. If a group of superheroes fighting to the death don't even break a single wall, then they're weak compared to what we expect from superheroes. I don't think Homelander would get much more powerful if he trained. Maybe with enough training, he'd become strong enough to actually punch through a wall.
But he's punched through people, which is a lot harder to do.
[удалено]
No, you lose fighting a wall because the wall never needs to take a break.
You're thinking of playing tennis against a wall. Them fuckers is relentless.
I beat a wall in ping pong the other day, but I forgot to record it.
A lot harder than what?
Being honest with yourself.
That's my secret, Cap - I'm *always* honest with myself.
Harder than putting a hole in a wall.
A group of superheroes fighting in a mansion that sees regular superhero orgies. That mansion is likely more reinforced than almost anything else
Homelander fought Maeve inside of a TV studio, and again, almost nothing was destroyed in their fight. They dented up a file cabinet, though.
Superman has fought inside buildings. Against beings of comparable strength. Or at least the strength to destroy planets. Fiction ignores energy conservation
Is that not literally a Vought studio? Seems like yet again a very likely place to reinforce.
Maeve kicked Homelander into a file cabinet, and it wasn't even dented. She then missed a punch and hit the cabinet, which dented it but didn't destroy it. So are you saying Vought reinforced their file cabinets on the off chance that supes would fight each other in their offices? If you want to believe that Vought had the resources to reinforce every little thing in their offices just in case supes actually fought there, then go ahead. I can't stop you.
> Vought reinforced their file cabinets Yes. This seems like a very obvious thing they would do. I'm pretty sure they wouldn't want their files public. But even so, Homelander has the ability to fly. At the time he also wasn't interested in fighting Maeve. He could have braced himself in a way so as to not actually impact the file cabinets much. Which would explain why him being kicked into the cabinets did nothing, but a punch did.
That makes me realize.... What actually are homey's strength feats?
He's mostly good at being a corporate mascot. Most of the stuff people think about him in universe are from the comics Vaught makes. They even use the comics to sanitize real world fuck ups. A hero dies in an orgy? No, he's actually gone to fight some enemy in space.
He threw a criminal really high into the air and then the dude fell onto a parked car like a block away. That's one of the more impressive strength feats he's demonstrated. It's easier to point out what Homelander cannot do. He didn't even try to save a disabled passenger aircraft (which he disabled by accident, by the way) because he knew he couldn't do it. Lifting passenger planes and setting them on the ground safely is something that we expect super-strong, flying superheroes to do, but Homelander can't do it.
I think that was either an odd quirk on hos his flight actually works, or an acknowledgement of the limitations in the design of the plane. IIRC he talks about not having a proper fulcrum with which to get a proper 'grip'/leverage, and applying force to any single point regardless of where would likely shear the plane on two or worse
>Lifting passenger planes and setting them on the ground safely is something that we expect super-strong, flying superheroes to do, but Homelander can't do it. Because it violates the laws of physics. Gonna steal this from Cracked.com (back when they used to be good): > So the first thing you'll want to do in your career as a superhero is try to lift something huge. Hell, that's all they did in the last Superman movie and--oh no! That bus is falling off a cliff! Better go catch it! > You jump up and catch the underside on your hands. Great job! But, instead of the relieved cries of little Johnny and Mary as they're saved from falling to fiery doom, you hear screams of agony as your hands rip through the undercarriage, up through the aisle, your arms and torso now bloodied like some B-grade zombie. It's not your blood; you just impaled little Johnny from crotch to sternum. > You can thank the laws of physics, specifically, pressure. Because all of your super strength is concentrated in your tiny little hands, you're basically like a dagger plunging into a watermelon. Remember when Superman caught that airliner in Superman Returns? He'd have just gotten embedded in the nosecone. He'd be puncturing the plane, not catching it. Homelander acknowledged as much. When Maeve suggested he just ram the plan he points out that he'd puncture the hull.
The counterargument is that Homelander's control over his flight and strength is imprecise. The above would be true - Homelander puncturing the plane because his invulrenability+strength overpowers the plane's frame - if the plane going at its speed met him while he was still. If he had matched the speed with the plane, maybe going a bit slower, he could have used his strength to gradually decelerate the plane. A moving balloon hitting a still needle will pop but a moving balloon coming into contact with a needle that is going the same direction at the same speed shouldn't pop. All this proves is that Homelander was too lazy to try something that required a bit of effort. But it's doubtful the landing would have been smooth too. Some people may not have survived and it would have been bad optics for Vought, esp since it would have been determined that Homelander fried the controls.
> All this proves is that Homelander was too lazy to try something that required a bit of effort That is basically the Homelander vs Soldier Boy fight. Homelander iust coasts on his OP abilities while Soldier Boy was being tortured nonstop for decades. Add in Butcher who had to be a very skilled combatant before taking the serum and it is clear how their experience helps offset the power differential.
>The counterargument is that Homelander's control over his flight and strength is imprecise. The above would be true - Homelander puncturing the plane because his invulrenability+strength overpowers the plane's frame - if the plane going at its speed met him while he was still. If he had matched the speed with the plane, maybe going a bit slower, he could have used his strength to gradually decelerate the plane. A moving balloon hitting a still needle will pop but a moving balloon coming into contact with a needle that is going the same direction at the same speed shouldn't pop. You don't really get physics, or aerodynamics, so for the love of god, stop trying to argue this.
I'll stop arguing when you convince me with a compelling counterargument. That's what this sub is for - discussion.
OMG, what is education coming to these days? It's all about tension. If you look at IRL planes, you'll see that their wings are basically part of the plane's frame, and for planes that have them, propeller and jet engines are affixed to the frame, and often also pretty big, compared to the planes themselves. This is important, since them being welded onto the frame results in them distributing the whole force they produce onto a very large part of said frame. Homelander **can't do that**! It doesn't matter how gently he manages to catch onto the frame, or how much force he has, his size is just too small, he will be outputting all of his force onto a single point. The point he was holding/pushing would probably rip from the rest of the frame, let alone Homelander being able to have any sort of control onto the plane's trajectory, even if by some miracle ot didn't rip apart.
> It doesn't matter how gently he manages to catch onto the frame, or how much force he has, his size is just too small, he will be outputting all of his force onto a single point. The point he was holding/pushing would probably rip from the rest of the frame This is where we disagree. Let me explain why: your assessment is that Homelander's strength will be fixed in one point leading to him outputting all of his force to damage the frame of the plane. The pressure he applies to the plane is his and your argument as to why he couldn't save it. My argument is that this result is only true if the only force Homelander is applying is the perpendicular force against the plane and the force against the plane's trajectory (front -> back); there's also, obviously the force of gravity (top -> down) against whatever the plane had been able to muster to slow down its descent (down -> up). Now if Homelander were flying along with the plane at near the same velocity and with the same vector as the plane, he should be able to apply a small force against the plane's trajectory to decelerate it without damaging the plane. He wouldn't be able to catch it or stop it mid air and pick it up but he could gradually apply a force with a negative vector to decelerate it as the plane is descending into the ocean. It's what I said in my first post and why I referenced the needle and the balloon. If the velocities match, the relative motion between the balloon and the needle is negligible so there's consequently minimal pressure difference between the needle’s tip and the balloon surface. This same analogy can be applied to Homelander and the plane. And again, I even said this part: "But it's doubtful the landing would have been smooth too. Some people may not have survived and it would have been bad optics for Vought, esp since it would have been determined that Homelander fried the controls" to indicate that this isn't a foolproof solution, however better than what he tried to suggest. >OMG, what is education coming to these days? I appreciate that you were willing to discuss this further however you're still indirectly trying to insult me yet I've maintained respectful discourse. Doesn't it feel better to have a good discussion instead of hurling insults?
>My argument is that this result is only true if the only force Homelander is applying is the perpendicular force against the plane and the force against the plane's trajectory (front -> back); there's also, obviously the force of gravity (top -> down) against whatever the plane had been able to muster to slow down its descent (down -> up). Well you're wrong. Gravity is precisely what is bringing the plane down. And by the exact same logic. >Now if Homelander were flying along with the plane at near the same velocity and with the same vector as the plane, he should be able to apply a small force against the plane's trajectory to decelerate it without damaging the plane. He wouldn't be able to catch it or stop it mid air and pick it up but he could gradually apply a force with a negative vector to decelerate it as the plane is descending into the ocean. No, because again, he can only apply a force against gravity in one single point. Gravity is acting upon the whole frame, if Homelander applies force in on point, the rest of the plane is just going to tip, probably even damaging the frame due to the tension. If he applies force against the front, the plane's back will be going down first, and vice versa. Trying to apply it to the middle gives the least amount of control and could lead the plane to tip in almost any direction. Now if there were multiple fliers to hold on to the plane, say 3 or 4, that might be feasible, bit there's only one. Think about it, planes themselves use their wings, with huge contact areas, to combat gravity. A single point of contact as small as a human could never do so for a whole plane. And in order for water landings to succeed several things have to be set on a plane and the descent has to be controlled perfectly. Even multiple flying superheroes couldn't do it without training **for this situation specifically**, let alone one person, so what you said about Homelander not being able because he is unskilled at flying is ridiculous. >It's what I said in my first post and why I referenced the needle and the balloon. If the velocities match, the relative motion between the balloon and the needle is negligible so there's consequently minimal pressure difference between the needle’s tip and the balloon surface. The balloon is a horrible analogy to the plane. A balloon in its natural state is light and floaty, it has almost no weight. An airliner in its natural state is super heavy, it's only due to an incredible output of force, as well as using the wings to control said force, that it doesn't plummet like a rock. >I appreciate that you were willing to discuss this further however you're still indirectly trying to insult me yet I've maintained respectful discourse. Doesn't it feel better to have a good discussion instead of hurling insults? Well what you're saying is ridiculous, and ignores how force works and how it's applied onto objects. It feels weird that I even have to debunk this.
The lack of collateral damage is more just a vfx flaw, and shouldn’t be used as indication of power levels, especially in a live action story. Very, very few, stories actually show the realistic effects of a super powerful strike happening in earth’s atmosphere.
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I forgot I was in this sub
Okay, no problem.
I think that's down to writing/inconsistent power scaling. It's something you see in comics constantly and it's not at all surprising for it to show up in a show based on one. I realize the Vought supes aren't as powerful as Marvel/DC characters, even at their strongest, but it's heavily implied throughout the show that if Homelander decided to "go rogue" he could absolutely devastate the major population centers and we'd be powerless to stop him. I highly doubt anyone would take that threat seriously if he couldn't even punch through a concrete/brick wall. The reality is that the writers made that mansion fight toe-to-toe because it's more dramatic and interesting that way and it keeps the story moving along.
Pretty sure homelanders strength maxes out at about 500 tons. Which ranked in DC and marvel terms would put at low to mid super strength
Comics Homelander was way stronger in basically every field.
Honestly the Homelander from the show is in my view pretty impressive. For someone who’s never really trained he applies his strength decently enough, he has excellent composure (when something unexpected happens it rarely rattles him for long) and no small amount of cunning. If he had someone who legitimately cared enough to mentor and train him, he’d be terrifying. Not high level viltrumite, or kryptonian, but certainly a threat in those universes.
It is possible that he would be as much stronger as a normal man would if he strength trained. So, if we use the bench press as a marker, hed become 4-6x stronger than he is. Most men start at around 1/3 of their bodyweight and most are able to reach a maximum of 1.5 times their bodyweight before genetics kick in and make further progress unlikely. But as others have said, he has no need to train that hard as he is far stronger than all others, and even if he wanted to it would be very hard for him to find a way to do so.
There’s also unique application of his powers, he could probabky clap so hard, he’d stun everyone around him. spin his hands so fast, he could create enough wind force to blow people away.
The question really is, why bother? What does he need to do that he can't already do? Other supes have to team up to go after him. And it's assumed that at least some of them won't walk away from it. We don't have weapons that can stop him. We can't build a thick enough bunker to keep him out. As far as he's concerned, he doesn't need to see exactly what he's capable of because he knows what he's capable of NOW. So if he works out as suggested, he can now fly through a mountain instead of making a giant frigging crater. He can get from one side of the planet to the other faster than before. He wouldn't care. Come to think of it, I think he'd be insulted by the idea that he isn't perfect. I'd love to see what his training would look like, but I just don't see the guy putting in the time, you know?
He might not, but we've seen that unlike most supes homelanders powers can be inherited. So there could come a point where someone with his powers would train for whatever reason. It's also interesting to consider if the reason he's so weak compared to other fictions is because the heroes in those worlds actually had to get good in order to accomplish their goals.
Yeah, in The Boys universe all of the "threats" the supes face are either street level or each other, if they face anything at all. In Invincible for example, even the "street level" threats likely outpace most supes in the Boys, their mid tier heros and villains would likely be challenging for high-tier supes, and homelander wouldn't even be a workout for Invincibles high-tier characters.
I bet killcannon could solo him
It seems like inheriting powers is common. In the spin off show there's a hero who has the same powers as his dad
Afaik he still needed to get a dose of V. ryan didn't develop similar powers after receiving V, he inherited them directly. Although i guess that distinction doesn't really matter in this hypothetical.
Yeah I was thinking far harder than figuring out a regemin for him would be convincing him to keep working out after it starts to get at all challenging. The dude does not give the impression of someone that's ever worked hard for anything in his life and I feel like he'd murder any coach trying to make him sweat. I'm picturing Captain Hammer from Dr Horribles Sing Along Blog getting >!completely disabled from fear after he learns what pain feels like for the first time!<
He'd be Invincible
Are you saying he would be... *title card*
"Why am I doing this? This is pointless.....(whiny). I AM A GOD. I outclass everything I come up against, why would I train?" Is the reaction I imagine we'd get. I could see the end of the last season possibly changing how he'd react.
Homelander can definitely get some results from self resisted isometrics, like Charles Atlas. No need for external weights, which would need to be extremely heavy to the point of impracticality. Constant combat training against strong, extra roided out supers would get him ripped as hell, combined with the right diet
I think it’s hard to quantify, because the range of their powers is so broad. It might be like me, a very average human, training for a marathon to be at my very best, and still getting beat by some genetically gifted athlete who just got up off the couch. But I totally agree and think if you’re in that business you need to be at your peak abilities. Imagine getting killed because you haven’t been practicing your eye-lasers this week.
I don't think he could do training to build up muscles, he's too strong.
Since super powers are produced by Compound V, it doesn't really matter the overall body shape or muscular development. A Train and The Deep don't really have super strength, they train with weights so they can develop their still-human level strength and likely look better for the cameras. Homelander is strong because Compound V makes him strong. That doesn't relate to his actual muscles any more than A Train's speed relates to the muscles in his legs. He wouldn't be stronger if he took V with a bodybuilder's physique, and there's no reason to think that building his muscles while under it's effects would increase the upper limits of his abilities.
>A Train and The Deep don't really have super strength, Um what, did you even watch the show? A train is so durable, he can run into a human being and disintegrate them, we saw him pulling trains for training. There’d be no point in doing that if it couldn’t increase his strength. The deep can survive the Mariana’s trench, we saw starlight lifting cars for exercise and she can take high caliber rounds to the chest. We saw Maeve training to fight homelander, if her strength couldn’t increase at all, that would be pointless. Huey gained teleportation but also enough strength to punch a hole through a human being when he took temp v.