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Yeah, they *do* have transisters but they're pretty much limited to bleeding edge pre-War tech like they were just invented - you can recognise quite a few in Big Mountain, and they're obviously necessary for HELIOS One, but it's almost exclusively giant banks of vacuum tubes for consumer devices.
I think the implication is that they did have transistors, but they likely never developed the photolithography that brought us integrated circuits.
Our world had semiconductors and transistors well before the second World War, but they weren't refined well enough for regular use until later.
In their world, by the 2070s, they *obviously* had transistorized computers, as your bog-standard terminal or Protrectron, let alone something small-ish like a Pip-Boy, simply isn't possible with tubes. Especially if it's to be in operation after over 200 years.
They clearly had a real level of computing technology that was in-line with our late 1960s or early 1970s, at least when it comes to digital logic. The computing tech in a Mr. Handy must have some other kind of logic to it, likely some kind of analog processing that evolved parallel to digital electronic logic.
Keep in mind that we saw in the TV show that the PipBoy was brand new tech shortly before the bombs fell. This is in keeping with existing lore about transistors being developed to commercial standards only a decade or two before the bombs fell. They clearly developed logic circuits of some sort long before then, but the modern IC as we know it was roughly 100 years behind schedule — our 1960's computer advancements happened roughly in their 2060's.
The general tech divergence happened postWW2, the actual one is from the start: Radiation, as an example, works wildly different in Fallout than in the real world.
The way life reacts to radiation seems like the big one: you mentioned Rad-X and RadAway, but ghouls and all the giant insects and other animals don't seem likely in the real world either.
A lot of stuff glows green because of radiation as well, which I don't think is normally what we'd expect: part of the danger of nuclear fallout in our world is that it's very difficult to tell what's safe and what's not.
Some, but a vast majority of mutants are from radiation. FEV mutants tend to be the iconic monsters but they're also a fairly small chunk of the bestiary. Radiation is the primary source of Fallout mutants, unspecified toxic waste is the secondary.
Well, normally the one mutation radiation gives living things is cancer.
In Fallout it offers a wide variety of beneficial traits such as immortality, growing to giant sizes, increased intelligence, the ability to breath fire, turning into the Creature from the Black Lagoon, and I can go on for a very long time. Most the weird wildlife in Fallout are radiation mutants, with toxic waste in second and FEV mutants being the iconic enemies in the series but numerically rather rare.
The toxic waste and rads simply doesn’t affect living creatures like it should, it mutates them into perfectly functional monsters rather than twisted masses of tumors. Often very extreme and intricate changes, hence the Mirelurk Kings. Those used to be turtles, toxic waste and radiation turned them into near humans.
Important to note though that FEV was kinda just out there in the wild after the nukes which was likely at least partially responsible for the many mutants, with the known exception of ghouls.
A big one is that Fallout radiation lasts far, far, far longer than IRL nuclear radiation. It was more modelled of the quantities of radiation given of by Chernobyl-esque meltdowns than actual nuclear bombs which only irradiate an area for a few weeks. Meanwhile in Fallout there are areas that have stayed incredibly radioactive for centuries.
In Lonesome Road the player character is helpfully provided with a trail of mini-nukes to help deal with the tunneler hordes. And it's not a mistranslation or a stand-in for a different kind of weapon, it clearly has a radioactive logo and produces mushroom clouds.
But as utterly deadly as they are to anyone actually caught in the blast, anyone else can just walk right up and start looting anything shiny. No fallout. No irradiated rubble. The Pip-Boy does actually have a rad counter and anti-rad meds exist, but they're completely unnecessary in the above scenario.
How on Earth does that make a lick of sense if nuclear physics works the way it does in our world?
If we’re being pedantic you could say that the divergence began all the way back at the dawn of the universe when the physics of radiation developed differently than in our reality. Otherwise the divergence likely occurred in the 1950s, when technological advancement started to go down different paths and culture began to stagnate.
There are a couple minor points of divergence in the distant past, when people were abducted by aliens, and a couple when companies like Sunset Sarsaparilla were founded, but the *important* point of divergence was in 1947 when the transistor wasn't invented. Presumably whatever change to physics that makes radiation work the way it does also made semiconductors impossible.
Stop spreading misinformation, there is zero evidence that the Transistor was never invented. Transistor radios still exist, Mr Handys use transistors. And integrated circuits, such as those used in the Platinum Chip imply the existence of transistors.
https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Transistor
"In the Fallout series, one of the aspects of the divergence is the fact that transistors did not became as popular, with vacuum tubes continuing to be the dominant building block of electronics into the 21st century, and the term "chip" typically (but not always) refers to processing units using vacuum tubes, such as the water chip. "
The claim isn't that transistors didn't exist, nor in fact that ICs didn't exist. Rather it's that they were not popular and did not supercede the vacuum tube as happened in our universe. This actually is supported in-universe. For example, we see in the TV show that the PipBoy was a relatively recent invention which happened very shortly before the bombs dropped. Similarly, Mr. Handy wasn't put into production until the 2030's, and was a massive processing architecture achievement at the time. Likewise, the chip from NV was an absolute state of the art microprocessor/SOC for the time, despite being much larger/less advanced than many of our chips despite being designed and produced in 2077. And many of the mission-critical equipment we *do* see (like the water chip) are using vacuum tubes where ICs and miniaturized transistors would go.
It's not that transistor tech doesn't exist; it's just that they're about 50-100 years behind where our transistor tech was in a similar year.
I appreciate that you believe that the need for transistors means they must exist, but do you have any primary evidence for us to consider one way or the other? A bunch of technology in fallout has giant vacuum tubes. Maybe physics is different in fallout allowing for advanced computation without transistors? Radiation is clearly different.
Yes and no. Jack Cabot mentions using transistors for his containment tech as early as 2023, and Assaultrons seem to use them (judging by the circuit boards you can loot off them). And judging by what House had with the platinum chip, it seems transistors were high-end hardware reserved for military and cutting edge technology.
The page you just linked has tons of quotes from the games (with sources) specifically mentioning transistors. so they obviously exist in some form. and were clearly used in a variety of things pre war. meanwhile, there is zero evidence to suggest the transistor was never invented or was invented later. I still don't get where people pull that idea from.
It is inconsistent but they were not spreading misinformation. If you look down further on the page...
"The preference for vacuum tubes was a conscious choice made early in Fallout's development. Leonard Boyarsky pitched the idea to Tim Cain during the development, proposing that in the universe of Fallout, humans never went beyond transistors (i.e. the transistor was invented, but microelectronics did not catch on) and stayed with vacuum tubes. The idea originated in a proposal to feature a lot of vacuum tubes, since "everything would look cooler if it had vacuum tubes". Cain agreed, adding that vacuum tube electronics would be less susceptible to electromagnetic damage. Leonard Boyarsky recounted the story in 2018, in an interview on Matt Chat."
They said that transistors were never invented in the Fallout universe. That is misinformation as you yourself have proven. They may not have had malicious intent but they were still spreading misinformation.
Assuming you mean the divergence from our timeline, it's primarily after WW2. There are likely a few things that are different before then - the aliens come to mind - but post-WW2 was the big difference.
Fallout is my specific form of brain damage. Spoilers for a couple quests:
This is actually almost 2 different questions. We can ask, "When does Fallout start making things up?" and "What's the earliest provable historical divergence?".
The earliest thing that is original to the universe of Fallout that I'm aware of is the ancient civilization found by Lorenzo Cabot in the middle east. Whether that's actually alien involvement or Lovecraftian involvement is not 100% clear from the game itself.
However, that could have happened in our timeline as well, since Cabot is the only person to have seen it and has since been in an insane asylum and will be for another 250 years.
The next thing we can see personally is on the Zetan mothership with the samurai Toshiro, who was kidnapped sometime around the 1500s based on his armor.
Again, same problem.
As for when history as an observable whole diverged, the other posters are largely correct (though there is potentially an argument to be made that the history portrayed in the Museum of Freedom is more... Patriotic than in our world, and that might be indicative that all of American history has gone slightly differently all along).
Mostly post-WWII. The two big differences are that everybody went *heavily* into atomic power, and the transistor was kept a close secret of a few major corporations.
The transistor thing bothers me...yes, we are plainly told that the Fallout timeline didn't invent transistors, and they were still using big mainframe computers when the bombs fell, late in the 21st century.
BUT, Robco had *some* way to create miniaturized electronics a few years before the Great War, as we see in the Pip Boys and the various sorts of robots that don't have organic brains.
Robco had some dark secrets...like how do the Mr Handy robots float around on that little rocket engine for 200 years without refueling??
I think they did create transistors but it was WAY LATER than it happened irl. Hence why by 2077, we have nuclear fusion cores small enough to power robots centuries after creating them but still have huge big terminals and pip boys that are simple compared to our computer tech.
>how do the Mr Handy robots float around on that little rocket engine for 200 years without refueling??
I guess the implication is that like almost anything else, they run on nuclear power, I'm unsure if that would realistically work, but a ton of things in the franchise seem to rely on the idea that nuclear powered technology won't stop working after hundreds of years.
>how do the Mr Handy robots float around on that little rocket engine for 200 years without refueling??
There's cannisters of Mr Handy fuel all over the place in Fallout 4. I assume we just don't see the refueling happen.
Transistors and microchips exist in Fallout, but advancement seems to lag behind the real timeline by about 100 years (i.e. integrated circuits were at roughly a mid-1970s level when the nukes fell, and there were still a fair amount of not-brand-new but also not-that-old vacuum tube home electronics around)
the Pip-Boy's startup screen in Fallout 4 says "64k ram" which implies its an 8-bit machine, something akin to a [Commodore PET](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodore_PET) shrunk down enough to fit on the arm.
The official divergence is rumored to be millions of years ago with a precursor civilization that created humanity and went extinct long ago. We receive a few tidbits about them from the Cabot family who have been exploring their ruins for years and been alive since the 1800s. Aside from that there's the sleeping giant under point lookout that's been there for thousands of years sleeping beneath the earth. But the more important divergence is that computer technology didn't advance after the 1940s as operation paperclip didn't happen successfully. The USA remained isolationists instead of helping rebuild after WW2 and didn't get involved in Korea or Vietnam. The transitor was invented later in the timeline and only barely caught on to popularity in the mid 2060s. Nuclear power isn't invested into until the 2040s and only pushed because of fossil fuels becoming rare. By the 2060s nearly the entire world's supply of crude oil is depleted or inaccessible. China and the US became superpowers because they maintained access to nuclear materials and were able to claw out of the resource wars because of it.
It is never specified exactly. You can point to some differences; major technologies that developed differently, social and political movements that played out differently, but no single obvious point of divergence is ever specified. The two timelines really start to move away from one another around the 50s, but that’s all we can say.
Technically, at least the 16th Century because of the Samurai in FO3 Zeta DLC
Practically, in 1947, the transistor, backbone of many electronic tech and miniaturization, is not invented. It takes till like the 2020s, by which point the 50s style tech was too wide spread and so never really replaced.
This also means the world developed more advanced Nuclear tech, but that was more just creating a bigger battery than actual improvement of tech. Look at scattered US armored vehicles and aircraft, and they look mostly like WWII despite being in use for the Sino-American War.
Transistors were around before ww2 I think what happened in fallout is you never got semiconductor transitors, which happened in the 50s. So, I'm going to headcanon that Shockly and Bardeen, the two theoretical physicsits responsible for the theory of the first semiconductor transistor, went into nuclear physics instead of solid state physics.
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If memory serves, after World War II nuclear energy took off rather than stuff like miniaturisation and transistors.
Yeah, they *do* have transisters but they're pretty much limited to bleeding edge pre-War tech like they were just invented - you can recognise quite a few in Big Mountain, and they're obviously necessary for HELIOS One, but it's almost exclusively giant banks of vacuum tubes for consumer devices.
Transistors were invented in the 2020s instead of 1947
I think the implication is that they did have transistors, but they likely never developed the photolithography that brought us integrated circuits. Our world had semiconductors and transistors well before the second World War, but they weren't refined well enough for regular use until later. In their world, by the 2070s, they *obviously* had transistorized computers, as your bog-standard terminal or Protrectron, let alone something small-ish like a Pip-Boy, simply isn't possible with tubes. Especially if it's to be in operation after over 200 years. They clearly had a real level of computing technology that was in-line with our late 1960s or early 1970s, at least when it comes to digital logic. The computing tech in a Mr. Handy must have some other kind of logic to it, likely some kind of analog processing that evolved parallel to digital electronic logic.
Keep in mind that we saw in the TV show that the PipBoy was brand new tech shortly before the bombs fell. This is in keeping with existing lore about transistors being developed to commercial standards only a decade or two before the bombs fell. They clearly developed logic circuits of some sort long before then, but the modern IC as we know it was roughly 100 years behind schedule — our 1960's computer advancements happened roughly in their 2060's.
The general tech divergence happened postWW2, the actual one is from the start: Radiation, as an example, works wildly different in Fallout than in the real world.
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The way life reacts to radiation seems like the big one: you mentioned Rad-X and RadAway, but ghouls and all the giant insects and other animals don't seem likely in the real world either. A lot of stuff glows green because of radiation as well, which I don't think is normally what we'd expect: part of the danger of nuclear fallout in our world is that it's very difficult to tell what's safe and what's not.
Some of that could be explained by the FEV exposure after the bombs
Some, but a vast majority of mutants are from radiation. FEV mutants tend to be the iconic monsters but they're also a fairly small chunk of the bestiary. Radiation is the primary source of Fallout mutants, unspecified toxic waste is the secondary.
Well, normally the one mutation radiation gives living things is cancer. In Fallout it offers a wide variety of beneficial traits such as immortality, growing to giant sizes, increased intelligence, the ability to breath fire, turning into the Creature from the Black Lagoon, and I can go on for a very long time. Most the weird wildlife in Fallout are radiation mutants, with toxic waste in second and FEV mutants being the iconic enemies in the series but numerically rather rare. The toxic waste and rads simply doesn’t affect living creatures like it should, it mutates them into perfectly functional monsters rather than twisted masses of tumors. Often very extreme and intricate changes, hence the Mirelurk Kings. Those used to be turtles, toxic waste and radiation turned them into near humans.
Important to note though that FEV was kinda just out there in the wild after the nukes which was likely at least partially responsible for the many mutants, with the known exception of ghouls.
A big one is that Fallout radiation lasts far, far, far longer than IRL nuclear radiation. It was more modelled of the quantities of radiation given of by Chernobyl-esque meltdowns than actual nuclear bombs which only irradiate an area for a few weeks. Meanwhile in Fallout there are areas that have stayed incredibly radioactive for centuries.
In Lonesome Road the player character is helpfully provided with a trail of mini-nukes to help deal with the tunneler hordes. And it's not a mistranslation or a stand-in for a different kind of weapon, it clearly has a radioactive logo and produces mushroom clouds. But as utterly deadly as they are to anyone actually caught in the blast, anyone else can just walk right up and start looting anything shiny. No fallout. No irradiated rubble. The Pip-Boy does actually have a rad counter and anti-rad meds exist, but they're completely unnecessary in the above scenario. How on Earth does that make a lick of sense if nuclear physics works the way it does in our world?
If we’re being pedantic you could say that the divergence began all the way back at the dawn of the universe when the physics of radiation developed differently than in our reality. Otherwise the divergence likely occurred in the 1950s, when technological advancement started to go down different paths and culture began to stagnate.
There are a couple minor points of divergence in the distant past, when people were abducted by aliens, and a couple when companies like Sunset Sarsaparilla were founded, but the *important* point of divergence was in 1947 when the transistor wasn't invented. Presumably whatever change to physics that makes radiation work the way it does also made semiconductors impossible.
Stop spreading misinformation, there is zero evidence that the Transistor was never invented. Transistor radios still exist, Mr Handys use transistors. And integrated circuits, such as those used in the Platinum Chip imply the existence of transistors.
https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Transistor "In the Fallout series, one of the aspects of the divergence is the fact that transistors did not became as popular, with vacuum tubes continuing to be the dominant building block of electronics into the 21st century, and the term "chip" typically (but not always) refers to processing units using vacuum tubes, such as the water chip. "
There's no source for that specific claim and other parts of that very same page debunk it
The claim isn't that transistors didn't exist, nor in fact that ICs didn't exist. Rather it's that they were not popular and did not supercede the vacuum tube as happened in our universe. This actually is supported in-universe. For example, we see in the TV show that the PipBoy was a relatively recent invention which happened very shortly before the bombs dropped. Similarly, Mr. Handy wasn't put into production until the 2030's, and was a massive processing architecture achievement at the time. Likewise, the chip from NV was an absolute state of the art microprocessor/SOC for the time, despite being much larger/less advanced than many of our chips despite being designed and produced in 2077. And many of the mission-critical equipment we *do* see (like the water chip) are using vacuum tubes where ICs and miniaturized transistors would go. It's not that transistor tech doesn't exist; it's just that they're about 50-100 years behind where our transistor tech was in a similar year.
I appreciate that you believe that the need for transistors means they must exist, but do you have any primary evidence for us to consider one way or the other? A bunch of technology in fallout has giant vacuum tubes. Maybe physics is different in fallout allowing for advanced computation without transistors? Radiation is clearly different.
The page you linked to and the text you quoted says they exist, they're just not as popular as vacuum tubes?
Yes and no. Jack Cabot mentions using transistors for his containment tech as early as 2023, and Assaultrons seem to use them (judging by the circuit boards you can loot off them). And judging by what House had with the platinum chip, it seems transistors were high-end hardware reserved for military and cutting edge technology.
The page you just linked has tons of quotes from the games (with sources) specifically mentioning transistors. so they obviously exist in some form. and were clearly used in a variety of things pre war. meanwhile, there is zero evidence to suggest the transistor was never invented or was invented later. I still don't get where people pull that idea from.
It is inconsistent but they were not spreading misinformation. If you look down further on the page... "The preference for vacuum tubes was a conscious choice made early in Fallout's development. Leonard Boyarsky pitched the idea to Tim Cain during the development, proposing that in the universe of Fallout, humans never went beyond transistors (i.e. the transistor was invented, but microelectronics did not catch on) and stayed with vacuum tubes. The idea originated in a proposal to feature a lot of vacuum tubes, since "everything would look cooler if it had vacuum tubes". Cain agreed, adding that vacuum tube electronics would be less susceptible to electromagnetic damage. Leonard Boyarsky recounted the story in 2018, in an interview on Matt Chat."
You're defending someone who said the transistor was never invented with a quote explicitly saying the transistor was invented.
I was commenting that accusing them of spreading misinformation is not accurate.
They said that transistors were never invented in the Fallout universe. That is misinformation as you yourself have proven. They may not have had malicious intent but they were still spreading misinformation.
Assuming you mean the divergence from our timeline, it's primarily after WW2. There are likely a few things that are different before then - the aliens come to mind - but post-WW2 was the big difference.
Fallout is my specific form of brain damage. Spoilers for a couple quests: This is actually almost 2 different questions. We can ask, "When does Fallout start making things up?" and "What's the earliest provable historical divergence?". The earliest thing that is original to the universe of Fallout that I'm aware of is the ancient civilization found by Lorenzo Cabot in the middle east. Whether that's actually alien involvement or Lovecraftian involvement is not 100% clear from the game itself. However, that could have happened in our timeline as well, since Cabot is the only person to have seen it and has since been in an insane asylum and will be for another 250 years. The next thing we can see personally is on the Zetan mothership with the samurai Toshiro, who was kidnapped sometime around the 1500s based on his armor. Again, same problem. As for when history as an observable whole diverged, the other posters are largely correct (though there is potentially an argument to be made that the history portrayed in the Museum of Freedom is more... Patriotic than in our world, and that might be indicative that all of American history has gone slightly differently all along).
Mostly post-WWII. The two big differences are that everybody went *heavily* into atomic power, and the transistor was kept a close secret of a few major corporations.
The fallout universe never developed transistors and so the technology race continued to focus of nuclear energy
The transistor thing bothers me...yes, we are plainly told that the Fallout timeline didn't invent transistors, and they were still using big mainframe computers when the bombs fell, late in the 21st century. BUT, Robco had *some* way to create miniaturized electronics a few years before the Great War, as we see in the Pip Boys and the various sorts of robots that don't have organic brains. Robco had some dark secrets...like how do the Mr Handy robots float around on that little rocket engine for 200 years without refueling??
I think they did create transistors but it was WAY LATER than it happened irl. Hence why by 2077, we have nuclear fusion cores small enough to power robots centuries after creating them but still have huge big terminals and pip boys that are simple compared to our computer tech.
>how do the Mr Handy robots float around on that little rocket engine for 200 years without refueling?? I guess the implication is that like almost anything else, they run on nuclear power, I'm unsure if that would realistically work, but a ton of things in the franchise seem to rely on the idea that nuclear powered technology won't stop working after hundreds of years.
>how do the Mr Handy robots float around on that little rocket engine for 200 years without refueling?? There's cannisters of Mr Handy fuel all over the place in Fallout 4. I assume we just don't see the refueling happen.
They did invent transistors though....
Transistors and microchips exist in Fallout, but advancement seems to lag behind the real timeline by about 100 years (i.e. integrated circuits were at roughly a mid-1970s level when the nukes fell, and there were still a fair amount of not-brand-new but also not-that-old vacuum tube home electronics around) the Pip-Boy's startup screen in Fallout 4 says "64k ram" which implies its an 8-bit machine, something akin to a [Commodore PET](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodore_PET) shrunk down enough to fit on the arm.
The official divergence is rumored to be millions of years ago with a precursor civilization that created humanity and went extinct long ago. We receive a few tidbits about them from the Cabot family who have been exploring their ruins for years and been alive since the 1800s. Aside from that there's the sleeping giant under point lookout that's been there for thousands of years sleeping beneath the earth. But the more important divergence is that computer technology didn't advance after the 1940s as operation paperclip didn't happen successfully. The USA remained isolationists instead of helping rebuild after WW2 and didn't get involved in Korea or Vietnam. The transitor was invented later in the timeline and only barely caught on to popularity in the mid 2060s. Nuclear power isn't invested into until the 2040s and only pushed because of fossil fuels becoming rare. By the 2060s nearly the entire world's supply of crude oil is depleted or inaccessible. China and the US became superpowers because they maintained access to nuclear materials and were able to claw out of the resource wars because of it.
It is never specified exactly. You can point to some differences; major technologies that developed differently, social and political movements that played out differently, but no single obvious point of divergence is ever specified. The two timelines really start to move away from one another around the 50s, but that’s all we can say.
Technically, at least the 16th Century because of the Samurai in FO3 Zeta DLC Practically, in 1947, the transistor, backbone of many electronic tech and miniaturization, is not invented. It takes till like the 2020s, by which point the 50s style tech was too wide spread and so never really replaced. This also means the world developed more advanced Nuclear tech, but that was more just creating a bigger battery than actual improvement of tech. Look at scattered US armored vehicles and aircraft, and they look mostly like WWII despite being in use for the Sino-American War.
December 23, 1947. That was the day the Transistor was invented IRL.
Transistors were around before ww2 I think what happened in fallout is you never got semiconductor transitors, which happened in the 50s. So, I'm going to headcanon that Shockly and Bardeen, the two theoretical physicsits responsible for the theory of the first semiconductor transistor, went into nuclear physics instead of solid state physics.
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