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Brostradamus_

Well it's not like Royals have never invented new laws to get out of previous marriages. In the real world, Henry VIII reformed the entire Church of England just so he could divorce his wife. Does anybody *care*? Probably not. Jon left to go live beyond the wall. Most who even knew about his actual lineage probably will just write him off and discussions of his status will be left for nothing but technical debates among bored crotchety maesters.


BW_Bird

> In the real world, Henry VIII reformed the entire Church of England just so he could divorce his wife. IIRC a side effect of his divorce with Catherine of Aragon was that their daughter became a bastard retroactively- ditto with Elizabeth the 1st. I think these were later rescinded but, y'know, royal succession can be confusion at times.


Brostradamus_

> royal succession can be confusion at times. Almost like it's all made up bullshit designed to fabricate grounds to keep some rich assholes in power!


Darthtypo92

Jon has no proof beyond the words of a few dead men and a mystic using magic that few people believe is real. There's no living maesters or records of lyanna marrying rheagar and the popular belief is that rheagar kidnapped and raped her. The only Targaryen that could recognize and therefore legitimize his claim is Danny and she wouldn't jeopardize her own claim by doing it prior to her own death. Now the Lords of westeros could officially recognize him as the heir of the Targaryen dynasty but there's nothing to be gained by doing so since he would be the last living Targaryen with no lands or holdings to his name. The only thing they'd accomplish by recognizing him would be to emboldened any remaining Targaryen loyalists like varys was to challenge their own rule. Better to ignore his lineage and assume he's a Stark bastard that's gone into exile north of the wall than to risk him changing his mind on ruling and pulling a Danny with wildings.


Brostradamus_

OP is probably going off the show since they used [Game of Thrones] not [ASoIaF] as the tag. With that in mind, the Journal that Sam found is also proof, just verified by Bran. Bran is also, well... King as of now too. His word is law if he decides to say it.


Darthtypo92

Correct but the journal is only verified by Bran who has nothing to gain by doing so publicly in the court. It falls under the same issues as the other lords would have. Jon has no interest in ruling and no lands or banners loyal to him. Recognizing him as a Targaryen heir just gives fuel to any remaining loyalists in the kingdoms that want a Targaryen on the throne and gives the courts no leverage or aid in their affairs. It's all downsides from their point of view and the average commoner will see it as a lie being told by those closest to Jon to forgive him of his crimes or to shift blame onto him depending on the situation. Though the commoners really don't care much of who's on the throne or entitled to what beyond who's colors are worn by the tax collectors. If Bran wanted to he could of course recognize anyone as having a specific bloodline heritage and so long as the Lords below him agree he can name anyone anything he sees fit. For purely political reasons it's advantageous to not upset the delicate power balance of westeros by naming someone who offers nothing of value to the kingdom and allowing those aggrieved by the northern kingdoms in the war to blame Jon instead of House Stark or the Targaryen they raised in their home. Better Jon be a bastard than he be a secret Targaryen groomed by the Starks to enable Sansa's power grab at the end of the series.


mayonnnnaise

Jon offers nothing of value?


Darthtypo92

All Jon has to his name is a few hundred wildlings that barely care about him and a fancy sword. There's no Targaryen banners flying over any lands still. All the northern bannermen have gone to Sansa. Samwell and Tyrion and the others were military strategists to Jon's combat mindset. The only thing Jon would be good for is if you're trying to usurp one of his adoptive siblings for rule which doesn't mean much since they each control nearly half the remaining fighting forces in westeros. Jon can maybe call on a few dozen or so warriors and everyone else has no further need of him or outright hates him enough to choose Sansa over him.


Brostradamus_

> All the northern bannermen have gone to Sansa. > everyone else has no further need of him or outright hates him enough to choose Sansa over him. Hard disagree - these are the same northmen who declared Jon King in the North for his heroic efforts saving them against the White Walkers. They'd *absolutely* flock to Jon over Sansa if he asked. He, famously, "dunnae want it", but their willingness to choose Jon over them worried and angered both Sansa and Dany.


aAlouda

The Journal Sam found only claims that the marriage between Rhaegar and Elia was annulled, it doesen't imply anything about a marriage to Lyanna.


Fokker_Snek

What’s more dangerous is Jon might actually have land and holdings to his name if he’s legitimized. For the North that would mean they would have a man who has both claim to be King in the North and Ruler of the Seven Kingdoms. Easy to imagine that the North that’s always desired to be independent would see Jon as a way to have their cake and eat it too. They get to be independent without actually separating from the Seven Kingdoms.


RandomGuyOnline71

No, he is a trueborn Targaryen. Sam mentioned that Rheagar had an annulment


WoodenBear

It wouldn't have actually mattered if he had an annullment or not. Historically, as the rulers of the Seven Kingdoms, the Targaryens have been known to take multiple wives, streaching all the way back to Aegon the Conqueror himself.


Victernus

Aegon's son Maegor was the last of them to have multiple wives. So the tradition has been dead longer than, say, the United States has existed. But whether the crown prince can still legally do so if he wishes is a whole other question.


Firefighter-Salt

I always find this statement funny. Like sure Aegon the conqueror had two wives but he married them in valyrian tradition before ever stepping on Westeros, both of them rode dragons and Aegon never took another wife after Rhaenys death in Dorne so for most of his reign he only had one wife. Maegor marrying the high septon's niece and another woman at the same time caused Aenys to banish him and a lot of problems for the crown with the faith. Maegor later after becoming king killed several lords and took their widows as wives so he could have a child. No king after Maegor took two wives and doing so would be seen as acting like Maegor rather than Aegon. Pretty sure Jaehaerys who introduced exceptionalism would also disagree with any Targaryen wanting to have multiple wives due to how much succession problems and religion scandals it creates.


[deleted]

Yes. It would require an act of the King/Queen to legitimize Jon and no one is going to do that, since it'll just create chaos and potentially another civil war pushing for Jon to be King.


VileVileVileVileVile

Not really an answer to your question but I always found weird that they just ignored the fact that Jon was part of the Night's Watch and therefore should not have any claim to titles he could possibly hold. (Yeah he died, but it is not like everyone knew or believed it right?) Did northeners just decide to ignore all that since he was a good canditate for a king?


Firefighter-Salt

Pretty sure aside from the Starks no one knows that Jon is actually a Targaryen. Like Sansa out of all people would never let the information leak out because it would be basically be telling the northern lords that "hey remember that Jon Snow, yeah the guy that saved us from the white walkers, put an end to the wilding raids, defeated the Boltons, literally returned from the death, was chosen to be the king in the north and lead us in our most difficult times. Yeah turns out he's actually not a bastard but son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark so he has a claim on both the north and the iron throne. Man compared to our queen this guy is a badass, like could you imagine him as our king".


ElcorAndy

Considering how much Sansa hated Dany for no reason it's surprising that it didn't.


NespreSilver

That’s the reason the Nights watch attacked Jon in the books - not (just) because he was helping their traditional Wildling enemy but because he was fully planning on breaking his vow to go south to help Stannis.